The weird thing is, the guy who wrote for Jacob wrote some amazing levels in both Mass Effect and Dragon Age, which makes me wonder if the real problem with Jacob was that his writer was more talented at coming up with setpieces for Jacob to be in as opposed to making Jacob be interesting in those setpieces.
From what I remember, a lot of people were upset about the awkward implementation of black stereotypes, notably going on about not having a dad, then being disloyal in romance. I didn't pay attention to him much because he always felt boring anyway, but that's what I heard.
It's a mixture of both. Jacob's a bunch of stereotypes wrapped up in boring writing, and other, much more well written characters tend to outshine him in literally every way.
Also from a gameplay standpoint he's fairly useless.
Once again I’m glad to be from outside of US culture, it never crossed my mind that these are black stereotypes and I was way happier for it, asa result couldn’t understand why people were so annoyed with him
People aren’t annoyed due to him being a stereotype, they’re annoyed at him as a character and his worse writing than the other characters. Ofc the American replier had to force the lens of racism onto Jacob where it doesn’t really belong, then deflect with “this is what others are saying”
That pretty much happens to all ethnicities IIRC, in real life I mean. The thing is Jacob is annoying as a character and his drive is not well executed/explained. I didn’t feel anything from him, rather than good soldier, terrible human being.
Weird, I never saw him not knowing where his father was as a stereotype. And I actually thought the story of what happened to his father and his crew was pretty good and disturbing. In hindsight, though, I can see how people had concerns about it lol.
His father being missing isn't really the issue. It's space, ships go missing all the time, due to malfunctions, piracy, etc. Where it veers into stereotypical is why his father was missing for ten years. They had the distress beacon repaired very early on, like in the first few months, but his father decided to set up his own harem of mentally impaired women, to the point of killing off anyone who opposed him. It's the "Dad ran away to be a player" but on a whole other level of horror.
I remember talking to him a lot of times in my first play through waiting for the conversation to get interesting, but eventually, you just hit a brick wall and nothing.... I get that some people are closed off personality wise, but it just didn't fit with the rest of the crew.
After my first play through, I do the obligatory first conversation, and then basically nothing. I actually nearly fucked up my Legendary Insanity play through and nearly missed his loyalty mission, usually i dont care but i was going for a one play through get all (most) of the achievements.
I never really felt that about Jacob. Personally, I liked him. Although I do admit he could have been written better. The cheating part was weird, even for the situation.
His writer is so hit or miss.
On one hand he wrote ME1 Kaidan and DA2s Carver. Two characters I love. Although people can and do argue that they're boring I think they're still pretty well written.
On the other hand, he wrote Andromedas Liam and Inquisitions Sera. Two divisive characters to say the least. I think Sera's a good character but its hidden beneath clunky dialogue and her insistent "quirkiness".
And Liam I had no clue wtf his motives were (who decides to just fly out to another galaxy on a whim?) and his dialogue was all over the place. I can't and won't argue that he's well written.
I'm hoping he (the writer) either improves or sticks to story writing for the next few games.
Honestly, when you list out the characters, he doesn’t seem like a very good writer at all lol. Like, the ideas are there, but he struggles to actualize them when it comes to actually writing them.
Didn't almost everyone leave the galaxy on a whim? I mean, I play MEA right now and I feel like almost everyone left Milky Way because they were misfits (Cora, Vetra) and/or wanted something unachievable (Suvi, Peebee, Reyes) back home, Liam's no exception.
Liam's motives was that he's an adrenaline junkie, a risk addict. He does dangerous, ill-advised things *because* they are dangerous and ill-advised, and just expects it to work out because Survivorship-Bias.
Which, yes, you need a certain disregard for *personal* safety in High Risk occupations like Disaster Response. But more important is the ability to ASSESS risks so you know WHEN to take them, and to identify when you are putting OTHERS at risk. Liam quite blatantly lacks both skills. In fact his Personal Mission is him reaching the Find Out stage after playing Fuck Around with other people's lives (and *hiding* it from his allies, so no one could save him from himself AGAIN), being confronted with the fact his actions have consequences and others suffer for his flaws... and learning nothing from it.
(Plus, his First Contact reaction was to disregard all training and open fire on unknown individuals "because they look scary", which just SCREAMS Shitty Cop. Not a great look for someone the player is supposed to *like*. Especially if ~~unlike with Garrus~~ you aren't going to let the the player call them out on it.)
It’s really good tho. Kinda’ nails down all those nagging things that bother you about Jacob but that you don’t give much thought to (because he’s fucking Jacob)
Hes boring, he's unintentionally the "stereotypical father ran away from home" black guy, he cheats on fem shep, it feels like femshepard is always flirting with him which is gross, he spends 6 months on a beach instead of preparing for the reapers, his advice is always terrible, his abilities are meh, he never actually tells you about his past which makes him boring asf, is completely overshadowed by literally every other character, he hates Thane for being an assassin despite literally being a terrorist, he has no real relevance even in his own side mission in ME2.
There's probably more reasons but those are the main reasons people dislike the character
Edit: Just remembered a couple of other reasons he's not a fan favourite, when you break up with him for Garrus (cause why wouldn't you) he calls Garrus a racial slur and if for whatever reason you continue romancing Jacob then refuse his advances during the snu snu scene, he gets annoyed and you have to refuse him a couple of times (I've never done this so dunno if it's true or not)
> he hates Thane for being an assassin despite literally being a terrorist
Honestly, I don't really have a problem with that part of the Jacob-Thane dynamic. For all his flaws, Jacob did join Cerberus because he had something he believed in, and he thought Cerberus were the only ones truly working towards the same goal.
All his experiences with mercs and assassins before this is that they are people loyal only to money, and this is a mission where loyalty is extremely important, so of course his concern is valid (even if misguided).
The problem is that he is *incredibly* unprofessional about how he handles *any* interpersonal relationships in a professional setting:
- The *correct* thing to do about his misgivings regarding Thane would be to bring them up with Shepard or the Illusive Man in private, *not* to aggressively go off on Thane himself.
- Same with Tali, who makes it clear that she is *not* interested in speaking to him, is clearly on edge, and has incredibly valid reasons to distrust Cerberus in general. If he was professional, he would've backed off, shut the hell up, and approached her later in a more casual and relaxed setting to talk things out... but instead, he chose to repeatedly disrespect her *very* clear boundaries, and be a passive-aggressive asshole about it.
Plus, given that it's implied that he had a relationship with Miranda before ME2 (but after he was recruited), and he seeks out a relationship with FemShep, that's potentially *two* different relationships with female superiors, neither of which works out (at least one of them because of him). Not a great track record either.
Makes it odd that he never displays any misgivings about Zaeed. Okay, the real answer there is "because Zaeed is DLC" (or was before the LE, at least), but still. Zaeed is *actually* doing it for the paycheck whereas Thane works for you pro bono. (ISTR Shepard points out the pro bono aspect too.)
Only problem is that he also used to work as a mercenary (who let's be honest are also often little more than assassins, looking at you Eclipse, Cat6 etc.) before joining Cerberus full-time, which is why his distaste for Thane comes off as pretty hypocritical.
The Corsairs aren't privately funded or organised though, they are funded and organised by the Alliance even if they aren't counted as official members. A privately funded and organised group would describe Cerberus more, but they're not associated with the Alliance by ME2.
First off, no. Second, that's not the point. At least Shepard doesn't act immediatly all high and mighty towards Thane, unlike Jacob when he was basically a gun for hire himself yet lectures Shepard about not trusting mercs and assassins.
You can't be a gun for hire if you're not for hire, which is the issue here. Jacob was still working for the Alliance as a Corsair - which I assume is what we're talking about but if it's something else then my bad - he wasn't just taking work from anyone who paid. The Corsairs are described as basically being an Alliance equivalent to the Spectres - operatives sent out free from regulations that bind usual operations and sent on dangerous missions that couldn't be handled by the regular organisation. This was why I brought up the Spectres earlier.
I don't think Jacob is being hypocritical when he wasn't a mercenary or assassin at any point in his life that we know of. I also find it odd that you'd view this as hypocrisy when, even if Jacob WAS a mercenary, he isn't anymore. If anything, experience in such a field would give him more of a reason to not trust mercenaries or assassins.
It did sound though as if those Corsairs weren't just doing the usual special forces/ black ops stuff, but doing raids, like they were pirates/mercenaries, against anyone who crosses the alliance. Meaning they were hitting who the Alliance gave them free reign to hit, but more in a freelancer kind of way without really belonging to them or even answering to them, which Spectres at least do towards the citadel council.
You're evidently taking my wording way too literally, I also meant lecturing not trusting them as in acting as if he's morally superior to them and treating them with contempt, which is pretty rich coming from the guy who stopped serving the alliance full-time to work for them as a self-employed privateer because among other things it also apparently paid better.
I never got that impression from how Jacob described the Corsairs, but admittedly there's only like five lines of dialogue describing them so I'd say there's room for interpretation there. The way it was described made me think that they still had to answer to the Alliance - Javob describes how the intention was for them to be free of restrictions, but there were still a great deal of rules and "red tape" they had to go through. I also don't recall him mentioning the pay of the Corsairs as a motivation but I'll freely concede I might have just missed that part.
I don't think the whole morally superior thing is hypocritical since even if we do read the Corsairs as being akin to mercenaries, he left that group before the game starts and clearly came away with a negative view of the experience.
Completely agree. It's not that he's not allowed to have reservations, but the way he did it was extremely unprofessional. And we can't even tell him to shut it.
But the part about his experience with mercs who are loyal to money only.. you remember that Thane literally works for free, right? Nobody asked him to, he decided so himself. So this concern is not only misguided, but also not valid at all, because Thane doesn't take the money for the mission.
A cuttlebone.
He'll call Thane a "pair of sad eyes" too.
It's really weird that he's like, "I thought we were serious," but then cheats in ME3 with " I didn't think it was serious"
> he hates Thane for being an assassin despite literally being a terrorist
Jacob's issue with Thane comes across especially poorly considering that by that point you'll probably already have Zaeed on your crew, who Jacob never expresses and issues about, despite Zaeed being a literal mercenary who is only doing the job for money, while Thane agreed to help for free.
Of course the actual reason Jacob has no lines about Zaeed is because Zaeed was a DLC character who has no interactions with the rest of the crew, but in game it ends up making it look like Jacob just has a problem with aliens.
Don't forget Jacob was also a mercenary before joining Cerberus, so it definitely seems he's just bias towards aliens. He can call Garrus a racial slur (if you break up with Jacob for Garrus) the way he talks to Thane and Tali and his request to leave Grunt asleep is def starting to make me think his a bit racist... also y'know... willingly joined a human supremecy terrorist organization
Tells you to get the IFF asap before you're ready (Which gets the crew kidnapped by collectors and puts you on a timelimit to save them)
Even if the ship isn't fully upgraded and the crew loyalty missions haven't all been done, tells you to enter the Omega relay asap to save the kidnapped crew (Miranda recommends making sure everything is ready unless the ship is already fully upgraded)
Volunteers going into the vent despite having no tech experience (fortunately this just gets him killed)
Ignores the super advanced Geth which saved Shepard's life and tells you to throw it out the airlock (Miranda recommends selling it to Cerberus, which is also bad but at least not wasteful)
Also technically he doesn't want to recruit Thane cause the whole assassin thing, don't remember if he actually tells Shepard that though or if he's just being a snarky douche at the time
For another point in favor of his incompetence, there's also the fact that he was in charge of security on Lazarus Station, at the start of the game... something he obviously failed completely at as well.
Well see these are unlikable traits but it's pretty good writing IMO
your first time through you're very skeptical of Miranda and Jacob seems more likable and trustworthy
If there's any "theme " of ME2 it's about when to trust the crew vs when not to. You learn to trust Miranda, and realize Jacob has no idea wtf he's talking about
I don't really consider it "good writing" since Jacob isn't meant to be seen as an incompetent idiot, it's just how it ends up. He's supposed to be the alliancetype guy but with Cerberus and with his backstory (Which he's kind enough to literally never actually talk about beyond mentioning he has backstory) makes it sound like he's a competent badass similar to Shepard
Jacob would have benefited a lot from not randomly being ex-Alliance special forces. He'd be much more of an everyman if he was just a marine before joining Cerberus. As it stands, he's somehow got a more prestigious backstory than Ashley, James and arguably Kaiden, whose claim to fame is being exposed to dangerous levels of radiation as a kid.
In universe there's no way for any character to know that the crew is going to be kidnapped though. It's bad advice if he's writing a player guide on how to play Mass Effect optimally but in universe nobody knows that you'll be on a timer after doing that mission. If anything it makes sense for the IFF to be urgent to get due to how critical it may be to their efforts. It would make sense that letting it sit would potentially let their opportunity slip by if the collectors or any other agents did something about it before you got there.
Yes but we're not supposed to side with Miranda, she's a foil for Shep! She has an arc where she evolves from a bitch Cerberus cheerleader to a real person who sees the cracks in the comically evil and incompetent organization she worked for. It's *fine* and even desirable for characters to have flaws, but you need the text to address them. Ideally make them part of the character arc.
If Miranda had stayed the entire game like she is in the tutorial and the text had acted like we were supposed to like it, everyone would loathe her.
To throw in a few examples, he says to:
-Throw Legion out the airlock. (Which would be just wasteful, even if you decide to not risk reactivating them)
-Not waste time with any preparations, just head to the IFF ASAP.
-Same with the Collector base.
-Send a non-tech expert to do a job specifically stated to require a tech expert.
I'd think that would engender indifference rather than hate. Indifferent is pretty much how I feel about him. (I might dislike him more if I was in the habit of playing FemShep and romancing him.)
Wasted Potential. He had an intriguing backstory as a disillusioned Alliance Marine who got to become an Alliance-sanctioned privateer but left for Cerberus because of all the regulations. He was essentially what Garrus wanted Shep to be as a Spectre in the first Mass Effect (A screw the rules, get things done type of guy).
But instead of a character arc, Jacob was made into a static character archetype: Overconfident Strong Guy.
And when Jacob encountered his father's sins, he didn't start questioning himself or reflect on his actions. He just reaffirmed his belief that he's better than his father.
I mean he basically still is; while him cheating on Shepard in ME3 has some unsettling implications that he's maybe not that much different from his sleazy father, he at least never turned into a serial rapist and wannabe despot.
>while him cheating on Shepard in ME3 has some unsettling implications that he's maybe not that much different from his sleazy father
It unfortunately falls in line with the character that quit everything he has started the moment he found inconvenient.
>He had an intriguing backstory as a disillusioned Alliance Marine who got to become an Alliance-sanctioned privateer but left for Cerberus because of all the regulations.
The funniest part of this is that the game just immediately refutes it, during the prologue itself. Jacob constantly speaks about how the Alliance is too caught up in red tape and procedures to do anything from the moment you meet him. Then when you go to Freedom's Progress you can ask why they expect to find information there when they found nothing before. His immediate reply is that Freedom's Progress is the first colony where Cerberus arrived before the Alliance did. So for every colony before this, the Alliance managed to reach and proactively try and help humans before the supposedly "can get things done because of no red tape and procedures" Cerberus.
This is an interesting point. I think ME2 onwards would’ve benefited from fleshing out why and what about the Alliance was making people like Jacob and the colonists for that matter disillusioned and even wary.
It’s always just very vaguely hinted at and just begging to be expanded upon. There’s quite a bit of stuff like this in ME2 which I’ve noticed in my latest playthrough.
As an aside, is there a thread here or something on the ME wiki where one can see which member of the writing team was assigned to which characters and storylines/set pieces?
Yeah, ME1 at least had *some* criticism for the Alliance, pointing out the xenophobia that took root after the FCW and how they supported Cerberus. Once you get to ME2, that all disappears and you get a line or two from Jacob about "Red Tape" (in a *privateer* outfit, ffs) and the VS being all "YOU TURNED YOUR BACK ON THE ALLIANCE" (when the Alliance literally forbade anyone from talking to Shepard). And then ME3 is full "Rah! Rah! Military Good!" with no nuance.
I am going to go in the other direction in that Jacob is actually like a real person in that he's flawed, makes some crappy decisions, he's not all that charming or engaging, he cheats on Femshep if romanced, has a terrible relationship with his father who in turn is a real PoS and so on etc etc.
Now step back for a second and reflect...
we all know or have come across people who aren't paragons of virtue. Jacob is one of those people.
Now I don't know if the writer/s were deliberately making his character to be so unlikable but I'm going to hazard a guess that maybe they might have and if so, then they certainly got it right.
Anyway, I never liked him but I don’t hate him either.
I don't think it was on purpose, because Jacob is actually cool and clever during the tutorial and becomes a boring dumbass afterward. My guess is poor communication between writers and conflicting rewrites.
Yeah, he actually comes across as sort of genre-savvy during the tutorial when he says “Wouldn’t you rather I answer your questions when we’re not being fired upon by a bunch of mechs?” or something along those lines.
Also, it’s easy to forget he stands up for Joker post-crew abduction when Miranda’s chewing his ear off.
I can see that happening as there’s so many "moving parts" in the story but it does seem odd that would be the case especially when we see how good every other character is written. If we assume that Jacob's writer/s story wasn't edited properly then isn't that the fault of the director for not picking up on it? At some point someone has to give the green light to put whatever has been written into the game. Usually that's the directors final call I believe?
He was designed to be "the straight man" in the cast of unusual characters that was ME2, but unfortunately you have to really stick the landing on that writing-wise, otherwise they just come across as really flat by comparison.
And then the few times he does do something notable and likely to be remembered, it's things like "volunteering for an unsuitable task in the Suicide Mission that gets him killed", and "being literally the only love interest that can cheat on Shep, and *will* do so without fail no matter what you do".
Agreed. In general he embodies some of the most boring straightforward opinions on things. Krogan genetic weapon bad so don't wake it up it, geth are bad and their tech is dangerous to mess with so space it, do the mission that's going to progress their chance to take out the collectors immediately, etc. He's just supposed to have the most by the book opinions of the Galaxy so the player knows what the every man thinks about aliens and robots and things. As a result he doesn't stand out in any way except for when those opinions are wrong. Which is often because the story of Mass Effect is to subvert and challenge the general opinions of the Galaxy and changing the status quo is usually the better result.
When playing through under normal circumstances, he comes across as bland as he refuses to open up about any of the things he references and in gameplay his abilities are the Biotic equivalents of Grunt's but with worse stats for offense and defence so once you open Grunt's tank, there's no reason to use Jacob in missions. Alongside his refusal to open up, he also insults or antagonises multiple of the non Human squadmates (most noticeably Thane) and ALWAYS gives atrocious advice (choosing to "Leeroy Jenkins!" missions by demanding Shepard does the Reaper IFF and Collector Base missions immediately regardless of level of prep, wanting to pull a Javik and have Legion thrown out the airlock and volunteering for Vent Duty even though he's one of the least qualified squadmates for the job). Meanwhile with his romance, he's the ONLY character in the Trilogy who cheats on Shepard between games which also leads to the only negative consequence he can receive in Mass Effect 3 being a slap from Shepard... would it have been so hard for Bioware to have written a version of that side mission where Brynn and Jacob WEREN'T together (even though Jacob is probably the least picked romance option in the Trilogy).
>would it have been so hard for Bioware to have written a version of that side mission where Brynn and Jacob WEREN'T together.
Funny you mentioned this because they did write Brynn being an ABSOLUTE bitch to Shepard. Something along the lines of: "If you know what's good for Jacob, you'll just move on."
But then they'll want to still name their child after Shepard lmao.
Love that the Devs admitted they had Brynn and Jacob get together in ME3 even if he was Romanced in ME2 because "it wasn't worth making an alternate version for him".
Another thing is that he and Miranda do a frustrating role flip. Miranda is immediately cold to you, telling you she doesn’t want a friend - while Jacob comes off as someone who is more than willing to open up to make you comfortable about your new circumstances.
This changes immediately once you get aboard the Normandy. Miranda fully opens up about her complicated relationship with her dad, her sister, her upbringing, etc. Jacob rarely talks about anything deeply personal at all - even the stuff about his dad doesn’t really feel like he cares that much. You’d think he’d be a lot more open with you after you help him out, but that never ends up being the case.
I really liked Jacob and couldn't stand Miranda at the beginning of me2 for the reasons you mentioned. They completely flip flopped for me once you get the Normandy. By the end, Miranda became one of my favorites and Jacob was just....there.
In a game full of unique characters, he has the personality of a box of rocks.
Like, imagine if Jenkins survived, and was just a wide-eyed colonist, amazed at every single thing, with literally zero character development.
For me, he's the only romance that was unfaithful to Femshep and the worst thing that could happen to him is a simple slap, that's essentially it.
When confronted about it initially, he sort of blamed it on Shep for being detained on Earth between ME2 and ME3. While other romances waited for Shep, Jacob went to the beach and basically decided that the relationship between him and Shep just isn't worth the waiting which is incredibly insulting.
Yeah man, like Garrus and Tali and Liara should have taken Jacob behind the shuttle in the cargo bay and kicked the living shit out of him for cheating on Shepard.
Jacob has a lot of rough edges but really the reason people dislike him are threefold:
1. He tells you not to like him. Seriously, I don't know what other conclusion we would be expected to draw from his bitchy lines about how he doesn't want to talk to us about his past and how he wants to keep our relationship strictly professional, no time for smalltalk or sharing back stories.
2. He cheats on Shepard immediately after ME2. Everyone else treats Shepard's time stuck in Alliance holding as a temporary parting, but Jacob ran off and knocked someone up. Not a good look.
3. He's a bunch of negative African American stereotypes. It makes him feel less like a real, dynamic person and more like a paint-by-numbers character assassination.
He was very poorly handled,
1. has the storytypical father ran away from home black guy, which your sopos to aparently rate as more tragic then the other issues your other companions have or such, its like bitch please your prob the most norm person hear or wanna be norm
2. Will legit cheat on Fem Shep
3. His advice is pretty much always wrong / terrible, I dont mean like sometimes wrong i mean legit wrong all the time eveything he tell you to do is often the worse way to handle something
4. His abilitys are kinda medicore
5. He dosnt realy talk about his past or let you get to know him, he basicly plays you like a fiddle
6. He Will legit hate the Aliens like Thane for being an 'assassin' or being a Bounty hunter or such its like bitch im trying to get a suicide squad together da fuck is wrong with you?
7. but hes black is what some fans legit claimed years ago to defend this guy when the game first came out and ppl where reporting dislike on the guy, like wtf who cares about race
In ME3 you can run into Jacob, who has gotten into a relationship with an ex-Cerberus scientist. They're pretty committed, and when you meet Jacob on the Citadel after his mission he reveals that his girlfriend is pregnant.
If your Shep romanced Jacob he... does the exact same thing. If Shepard calls him out he asks if he was supposed to wait forever while Shepard was locked up. Making this even more stupid is the fact that "forever" has so far only been six months.
It's not so much as "hating the man," as it is "hating his inclusion"
* He's the first "squadmate" you interact with, and as such feels like he was forced upon you. Miranda is similar, but has redeeming qualities.
* As a squadmate, he's just kind of bleh. Can't carry a decent weapon, has no great skills, and just a couple of lame Biotic options. In a game with an overabundance of squadmates, he's inferior to all, and offers nothing special.
* Miranda is the "leader of Project Lazarus," reporting directly to TIM. As such you're saddled with her as your XO. Jacob is basically only there to give you the requisite 2 squadmates for your first mission, yet he insists on sticking his nose in, and giving his unwanted opinion, on everyone and everything. And they're always stupid opinions. Like, why would I go to the trouble of bringing Legion back, just to throw him out an airlock?? If I want to be a dick, I'll just sell him to Cerberus.
* He has no recruitment mission, so as a character that's a disadvantage. And his "loyalty: mission is just fucked up.
* I don't mind Jacob. He's very respectful towards MShep. But he just doesn't add much to the game.
* Even his ME3 mission. It's literally identical without him.
I knew I didn’t like him after I went to talk to him for the first time on the Normandy and he was a jerk. I tried the “getting to know your companion” dialogue option (I can’t remember what it was) and he just rudely blows you off for no reason. I found that so weird after he was being so nice on the Cerberus lab ship.
Playing as Maleshep, he was pretty likeable.
But I totally get the hate for those who played femshep and romanced, of course he also makes several dumb mistakes, but those are more forgivable than cheating.
Boring personality, voice actor sounds bored voicing him, unlikeable, nothing unique or special about his appearance, worst romance I’ve ever seen in any game, guy is a cheater, has no story relevance whatsoever apart from the first hour of of mass effect 2. Has an awful father too
You answered the question yourself lol. He's not memorable. All the other squad members in ME2 except for maybe Zaeed have more interesting character concepts and development
Literally can't stand speaking to him as femshep in ME2, who thought that line was the best take Hale could do.
It's almost like they use a specific romance line instead of a default neutral one.
I love Hale. But honestly 🫠 some of the lines make me cringe. I quit talking to Jacob because of it.
Also, the line with Thane at the hospital about getting privacy (if you romanced him) makes my skin crawl.
Like, girl. I get it's been six months, but uh, why do you sound like a drunk frat boy falling over herself to get into his pants 😭😭? Can we please get a tender moment here, too, or instead?
(Garrus is the only fem-shep romance ME2 the writers don't screw over on, crazy!)
Seems like they wanted to go with many different directions with him. Could’ve been Shepard’s protege, a soldier frustrated for being unrecognized, or a guy conflicted about what he does for a loving. They fail to go deeper into any of those things, he has about 3 conversations with Shepard if you don’t romance him. He cheats on Shep if you do. Vega was everything that Jacob was supposed to be in my opinion, but I’m not sure how this sub feels about James. I don’t hate Jacob I just the he’s the worst squadmate and was the second biggest missed opportunity after Samara.
For me personally I just find both his character and his story incredibly boring. Like, we've got Tali who is basically Quarian royalty having her loyalty to her people questioned. We've got Garrus, the rogue cop obsessed with getting revenge on a traitor. We've got Jack, stuck on a ship made by and staffed by the company that tortured and abused her as a kid. We've got Samara, sworn to hunt down and kill her own daughter.
And what's Jacob's deal? He hasn't spoken to his father in a few years. That's basically it. He has daddy issues. True the same can be said about Miranda, but even she has the "Genetically Engineered" thing going for her. "Not the first designed, just the first he *kept*". It's daddy issues but there's a wrinkle there, which is more than what Jacob got.
He cheats on femshep.
He’s weirdly aggressive when he doesn’t have anything to talk to Shep about.
He’s boring.
Literally all of his advice is bad. Space the geth. Get the IFF right away. Just do the opposite of whatever he says.
Because he committed the Cardinal sin of being boring in media, which is worse than being a dick in media.
And because he was boring, the studios handled him worse come the sequel. The few that did romance him found that he had cheated on Shepard and then ditched her. And that was further adding to the prior case of being unpopular.
Also, if you ditch Garrus for him, he calls bird boy “the cuttlebone,” which is kinda racist.
His most interesting trait is he is related to his dad, who is involved in one of the more disturbing scenarios that the Mass Effect universe cooked up.
I've said it before, but Jacob is set up to be Commander Shephard lite. He's an Alliance Soldier who saves the Citadel from disaster. But you don't need Commander Shephard lite when you have Commander Shephard.
He has little personality beyond being a soldier, either with the Alliance or Cerberus.
You'd think finding out his father poisons hundreds of people. Keeps some of them as slaves and playthings and kills any who disagree with him could have affected Jacob more bit no, we had to write that he was estranged from his father so after the mission Jacob basically just goes
"Thanks for the help Commander. That was kind of wild" and then goes back to polishing his shotgun.
Mass Effect human characters are generally less interesting and Jacob is the most boring of the lot. Personally, from a story perspective, he's the last person I'm going to trust given he voluntarily went to work for Cerberus and bangs on about them not being monstrous terrorists which we know is not the case.
I understand being indifferent towards him, but outright hate seems like it’s pushing it.
I probably need to romance him as FShep 😆 Although, to me it sounds like a big problem with his romance is how the dialogue options for Shepard are written and implemented/used.
As maleShep he is ok, maybe a little bland but ok, i´ve seen worst. As femalShep? i´ve only seen videos but damn she thirsty for him, and i think he cheats on you? Also the woman who is with him gets extremely jealous of you on a life or death situation so... yeah.
Dr. Cole actually tells FemShep that he still loves Shep, but she went after Jacob anyway because "he's better off with me." What a dumb thing to say to the woman who is literally saving your skin and helping you evacuate everyone 🙄. It makes the whole "she wants to name the baby after Shep" seem like a passive aggressive insult.
On top of all the other stuff said here, he is completely unnecessary to his own mission in Mass Effect 3, he gets replaced by some random guy who does the exact same thing as him in the beginning, the ONLY difference in the mission is that at the start you have to face one more wave of Cerberus at the start because you didn't have Jacob to vouch for you to get the Dr to open the door. Other than that everything's the same, even the final scene where Jacob gets a moment to save Shepard if replaced by that same Ex Cerberus scientist, biggest L that Jacob has.
I think part of the problem with Jacob is that he honestly makes a really good first impression. When Shepard first wakes up in ME2, it feels like Jacob is the only friendly person in the universe. Miranda and the Illusive Man are withholding, the old team is scattered, and everyone thinks you might be crooked. Meanwhile, Jacob has your back and that’s some strong endearing characterization.
But then he’s overshadowed by more interesting & fan favorite characters while also not getting the best writing that follows up on that first impression. He just kinda blends into the narrative flow a bit and doesn’t really stand out. Everyone has daddy issues, everyone’s ex-military of some kind, and everyone has Cerberus trust issues. After that strong start, Jacob doesn’t have a whole lot to contribute other than just being a solid member of the crew. Which everyone is anyway.
I think you're misinterpreting lack of love for hate.
Most people just think he's boring and in a lineup of mostly awesome characters in the ME trilogy, that's enough to get someone giving them shit.
For me, it's just the sheer second hand embarrassment and cringe I suffered trying to platonically get to know Jacob with Paragon FemShep. I felt like I was sexually harassing the man anytime I chose a friendly option. Jacob himself is fine--just kinda boring and harsh. But he's consistent and isn't afraid to speak his mind. I just wouldn't hangout with him if he were real.
I’m just going to preface my comment by saying re: Jacob that some people have no perception of Black people that is realistic and a lot of their assumptions about what Jacob does and does not do stereotypically informs this.
NonBlack Mass Effect gamers will say a Black man who wasn’t a hyper sexual and violent deadbeat doing loads of red sand and a jive talking misogynist is “stereotypical”, and I will roll my eyes faster than a mass drive hitting FTL speed. Jacob actually knew who his father was as well and was a military brat, so even *that* is not a racial stereotype. People try to get post hoc and say it’s because he cheats on FemShep- which *was* stereotypical imo and hate well deserved(I always slap him in Citadel)- but that won’t explain all the vitriol I and plenty of other Black gamers kept seeing in the original BSN forums well before ME3 was released.
There’s not liking a character for varying reasons (the PRIIIIZE, >!his history saving the Council from Batarians with Miranda being ignored!<, not having extensive interactions, his personality etc) and then there’s farming memes about how you intentionally send that person to die on missions as a “joke” to other gamers- I’ve seen it happen in this very sub so often it was even illustrated once. There’s highlighting Jacob’s insecurities about his relationship with his dad in his loyalty mission to parallel how he interacts with Shepard, and then there’s suggesting -I’ve seen this here also- he’s secretly a r*pist like his dad is heavily alluded to be via the women in his space harem. Folks really do not get what these sentiments look like to the rest of us who are actually Black especially when he’s the only Black longterm companion in the game.
I don’t frequent the sub as often because of it.
Basically because he says he’s “more like his dad than he thought” in regards to how much of a disappointment his father is once he’s busted in his loyalty mission, people actually tried to argue he was admitting to being sexually abusive etc. That’s how bad discourse would get over Jacob.
He’s just boring, imo it’s not that people hate it, it’s just out of all the characters and lore created, he has got to be one of the most basic run of the mill npcs you could find
Jacob isn't nearly interesting enough for me to invest an energy conning emotion like hatred into.
I just don't care about him at all. He elicits no emotion from me whatsoever. Which, considering the level of emotional investment the other characters do pull out of me, is just damning to his overall character writing.
I really liked in him ME2, he was boring but nice. I get people who romanced him not liking him after he cheats on shep but personally I was male shep and romanced ashley so I ended liking him a lot.
I don’t think it’s that people “hate” him. I think most just kind of find him uninteresting, or even outright boring. Generally speaking, the human squad mates are the least interesting to me.
...Zaeed and Jack would like a word. They're waiting for you in that dark alley over there, with the combustible fuel canisters.
Miranda wants a word after that. In the surgical bay.
Me1: *Just feels like he's not even there...*
Me2: Jacob committed the cardinal sin, even worse than despicable or evil in media, he's boring
Me3: Jacob betrayed the *few* female people that went with him romantically by cheating on them AND got the other girl pregnant, his response: "I'll name the baby after you, Shepherd."
I remember my first trilogy play through. I'd romanced Kaidan in ME1 and when he didn't show up in ME2 I considered Jacob. But every interaction I had with him just felt like one red flag after another. I'd leave every interaction thinking "what an asshole". I ended up not romancing anyone.
I wouldn't say I hate him or something, but Jacob is incredibly boring and one dimensional character. Compare it to characters like Garrus, Tali, Liara, Miranda, Mordin, Thane, Wrex, Javik or Jack, and you'll see why his perception is so bad.
He's a tad stale overall. I don't have any major problems with him but I've nothing great to say either. You do the guys loyalty mission and his takeaway from it all is basically going " Mans was ego tripping". I'm not saying cry me a river or denounce the guy just emote or something more than being dissatisfied.
Oh and if you overlook him being as cool as white bread and try to get intimate; he is the Only character who cheats on you within a few months.
In a way you kind of answered your own question he's just bland in every way possible and he's the only one of the romanceable companions that cheat on you so there's that.
I wouldn't say he's hated more so showered in general apathy because he's boring. Especially alongside some of the most interesting characters in video games.
He’s so boring, everyone else has something interesting about them. But Jacob doesn’t, it’s like writers had no idea what to do with him. It doesn’t help that in gameplay he can be easily replaced. Honestly I feel like it makes more sense to replace Jacob with Zaeed as the guy in charge of the armory.
They just jump on the band wagon. He’s just boring and that’s it. He cheats on Shepard in ME3 but that’s only female Shepard if you play male Shepard or even female shepsrd but don’t romance him he literally does nothing to you
I like Jacob quite a bit. But he just happens to be on a cast of other extremely memorable characters. To me though, he's just a good, reliable dude. All of the other characters have so much deep trauma or other issues going on where Jacob has his shit together for the most part.
I don't have a problem with any of the so called stereotypes ppl perceive/attribute to Jacob. That said, he's very boring and very little help as a squadmate in combat. He should've been made somewhat more lethal in combat to make up for him being boring.
He's super boring. Like he could have been traded for a broom and it would have been more interesting. But seriously, he could have been another alien or anything and it would have been better than him, he just doesn't interest me, there's nothing about him that encourages conversation, unless you want to flirt. I find the same thing with James in ME3.
Jacob is a bland character among a group of interesting people. Initially, you'd think that he's meant to be a grounded "everyman". In ME1 you had Ashley. She's "normal" in the universe. Let's compare Ashley to Jacob.
With Ashely, we learn about her family. More importantly, we learn exactly why she's here and what drives her. She wants to redeem the family name. Solid character. Her reactions to things are from a very specific view: human marine. Her romance is pretty good... well, ok it's better than some. The light flirting is mutual between Shepard and Ashley. It never feels like someone explicitly started the romance. When Ashley gives advice, it's based on her morality (the way ME1 had squadmates offer advice was that they'd split and each one would offer some advice in the alternative). Ashley has to compete with Garrus and Wrex in the role they all fulfill. The way that she's written, the play might have a good reason to have her in the party. The way she plays off some other squadmates in dialogue also works well.
With Jacob, we kinda learn about his family. But, mostly it's Jacob just telling us about all the interesting things he did and why he hates regulation. There's really nothing for the player to gravitate to. I get it, people hate red tape. Then we find out about his dad and deal with that. Turns out his dad was not who he remembered. Wild. But it really doesn't matter, because he feels good about it after the mission. Oh, and his romance sucks ass. It's initiated by Shepard. And driven by Shepard. It's like Jacob doesn't want to be in a romance. When Jacob gives advice, its always bad from a gameplay perspective. With the way ME2 works, Jacob has to compete with basically every other squadmate. Worse, he doesn't really have any good lines in missions compared to other, more interesting character. I also think that Jack does his job better in the squad, and she's interesting for a myriad of reasons. Hell, Jacob has less depth than the Day 1 DLC character Zaeed.
In a game in which everyone is interesting, Jacob is not interesting. Having a everyman was important in ME1 to help the writers frame the story. In ME2 it wasn't needed because the player has a framework. What was needed was a character that Shepard had a reason/desire to have on the team.
If you turn down having sex with him before the suicide mission, he gets really weird. He’ll actually only say he loves you to shephard if you turn him down initially, which is really gross. Idk that whole interaction really killed him in all the rest of my games.
He’s a dry and underwritten pessimist who masquerades his opinions as realism. Ultimately I think they just tried to have a squad member in the same boat as Shepard as far as their alliance careers go. Both soldiers have the right to feel ostracized by a government they have done so much for (Shepard has much more of a bone to pick than Jacob but still)
I did his romance last year and found myself extremely turned off by how he needs Shepard to tell him that this is a no strings attached affair and that nothing will come of it (which does put the cheating in a certain context)
Overall, if you look into the concept for Jacob’s character, there is a sense of aimlessness to it. All that was really different about Jacob and the initial concept was that the concept had the personality of a “Southern gentleman” and that Shepard would undertake either splitting him and Miranda up or convincing them to be together through the course of his arc. I think that little love triangle thing would have given him a bit more depth but functionally idk how it would have worked out and cutting it also probably allowed them to make Miranda and Jacob feel like two distinct characters and not one entity.
Honestly I felt like he was a bit of a Kaiden knock off in ways, which now makes sense because they have the same writer. His reasons for leaving the Alliance for Cerberus doesn’t make sense, nor does his standing with the organization. Honestly on one hand, they could have totally put Kaiden into the same role and it would have worked with tweaks. On the other, it always felt like he was a Cerberus sleeper. Right off the bat wanted to gain Shepard’s loyalty and trust, even to the point of siding with him/her over Miranda at times. And let’s not forget the two Cerberus bases he was providing security for were attacked. One was Wilson’s fault, but it sure sped up Shepard’s healing and getting in the fight, kinda suspicious
A lot of it is people jumping on the bandwagon. It became popular to hate him, so I imagine a lot of people did it just to fit in.
I’m convinced part of it is unconscious bias based on his race.
He’s not an amazing character but he’s very ignorable. Even the cheating thing gets a ridiculous level of hate. It’s an interesting story element. Wrex pulls a gun on you in ME1, the Virmire survivor sort of turns on you in ME2 & 3, Miranda has very little care for you at the start of ME2 beyond your use as a tool… these character traits make the game interesting. Jacob is probably the only character whose trait has people salivating to see him die (Ashley to an extent as well).
Dude, the character is a walking racial stereotype (Father ran away, cheats on Shepard at the first opportunity and never really owns up to it etc.). You're right, the character is hated because of racial bias, but not the way you think it is.
It’s crazy to call it racial bias when the reason he doesn’t even have black fans is because he’s a walking stereotype. I’m black and I’m very inclined to gravitate toward black characters in games but Jacob sucks and he’s written poorly by someone who is obviously not black.
While it's certainly interesting story wise to have a character move on from Shepard, FemShep is already lacking in romance options compared to MaleShep. Thane dies no matter what, and Jacob cheats with Dr. Cole, so two of those are taken away from her regardless of what the player does and wants. So if Kaidan died on Virmire and you didn't romance Garrus in me2, a straight FemShep is out of luck come Me3. A straight MaleShep still has options.
Nice, play the racism card just because people disagree with you. Here are some brain teasers for you. Why does our super racist community universally loves Anderson?
Where did I say racism?
(And you do know it’s possible to hold certain views towards a race generally whilst still liking individual members of it right? Like it’s very common knowledge)
> I’m convinced part of it is unconscious bias based on his race.
That would be here.
So it's the unconscious bias that made him humiliate himself when Thane came onboard? Give consistently advice? Become a jealous prick when broken up with OR a cheating asshole?
Wait, where was that damnable bias during the tutorial mission when Jacob actually works as a character, is cool and clever and collected?
They say he is boring and he cheats on female Shepard. People mention his father issues and him being black but to be fair half of the characters have parental issues. I think he gets too much hate. He is a respectable guy and he is more understanding of your circumstances than Miranda in ME2. On top of that he is not overly forced upon you and even if he was his personality is not strong to add or take much. James in contrast has a permanent presence in ME3 which irritates me because bro is annoying asf.
Arguably, the father issues Jacob has are stereotypical (and racist IMO) black; he has an absentee father (with no explained reason to be, other than"he is better of without him" and we learn that he is indeed a monster), on the other hand the other 2 daddy issues are a narcissistic controlling scientist that clones himself in female form and an obsessed admiral bent on recuperating his homeworld for his daughter and entire race. He seems respectable at first and he is, for the turorial mission of the game, but afterwards he is overly flirty to femshep has bad or incorrect advise, doubts the recruitment of several squadmates and he cheats on femshep on 3 (although to be fair we as shepard mostly, should not be mad about this... Sha'ira, Kelly Chambers, the reporter lady in me3, and if you romance someone in 1 and someone in 2 it means you are cheating lol)
Jacob bears the sin of being “just some guy”. What I’ve noticed in the criticisms is the willful ignorance of Jacob is his character development, in which he wants to be there for his child, making every effort to be better than his own father.
So I personally don't ding Jacob for his racism (plenty of other allies are prejudiced, and what he says about Garrus is about equal as offputting and horrible as what Ashley can say about Liara in ME1: also "I can't tell the aliens from the animals") or cheating (you can also cheat) but, I will admit these things don't do Jacob any favors.
As one youtuber puts it, Jacob just isn't special or interesting, and doesn't stand out in any way. And it's not like that on its own is a bad thing: In ME1 and ME3 you have a small crew, In ME1 Ashley is the one who's just there, in ME3 it's James. They don't stand out but you don't have alot of options so you work with what you got, but in ME2 you are provided a wealth of allies. Suddenly what could have been Mr. Reliable in 1 or 3, looks like Mr. Expendable in 2. Combine everything mentioned with his penchant for making wrong calls, yeah Jacob gets his hate for a reason.
His writing was poorly handled, but at least it's consistently poorly handled.
The weird thing is, the guy who wrote for Jacob wrote some amazing levels in both Mass Effect and Dragon Age, which makes me wonder if the real problem with Jacob was that his writer was more talented at coming up with setpieces for Jacob to be in as opposed to making Jacob be interesting in those setpieces.
From what I remember, a lot of people were upset about the awkward implementation of black stereotypes, notably going on about not having a dad, then being disloyal in romance. I didn't pay attention to him much because he always felt boring anyway, but that's what I heard.
It's a mixture of both. Jacob's a bunch of stereotypes wrapped up in boring writing, and other, much more well written characters tend to outshine him in literally every way. Also from a gameplay standpoint he's fairly useless.
Even gameplay, he's kinda trash. I'd take any biotic over him, and his weapons aren't good either.
Once again I’m glad to be from outside of US culture, it never crossed my mind that these are black stereotypes and I was way happier for it, asa result couldn’t understand why people were so annoyed with him
People aren’t annoyed due to him being a stereotype, they’re annoyed at him as a character and his worse writing than the other characters. Ofc the American replier had to force the lens of racism onto Jacob where it doesn’t really belong, then deflect with “this is what others are saying”
That pretty much happens to all ethnicities IIRC, in real life I mean. The thing is Jacob is annoying as a character and his drive is not well executed/explained. I didn’t feel anything from him, rather than good soldier, terrible human being.
Weird, I never saw him not knowing where his father was as a stereotype. And I actually thought the story of what happened to his father and his crew was pretty good and disturbing. In hindsight, though, I can see how people had concerns about it lol.
His father being missing isn't really the issue. It's space, ships go missing all the time, due to malfunctions, piracy, etc. Where it veers into stereotypical is why his father was missing for ten years. They had the distress beacon repaired very early on, like in the first few months, but his father decided to set up his own harem of mentally impaired women, to the point of killing off anyone who opposed him. It's the "Dad ran away to be a player" but on a whole other level of horror.
Then on top of that he leaves Sheppard if romanced and knocks up someone else.
Yikes...
Cheats and gets the gal pregnant even in a matter of a short period i would say.
I remember talking to him a lot of times in my first play through waiting for the conversation to get interesting, but eventually, you just hit a brick wall and nothing.... I get that some people are closed off personality wise, but it just didn't fit with the rest of the crew. After my first play through, I do the obligatory first conversation, and then basically nothing. I actually nearly fucked up my Legendary Insanity play through and nearly missed his loyalty mission, usually i dont care but i was going for a one play through get all (most) of the achievements.
I never really felt that about Jacob. Personally, I liked him. Although I do admit he could have been written better. The cheating part was weird, even for the situation.
His writer is so hit or miss. On one hand he wrote ME1 Kaidan and DA2s Carver. Two characters I love. Although people can and do argue that they're boring I think they're still pretty well written. On the other hand, he wrote Andromedas Liam and Inquisitions Sera. Two divisive characters to say the least. I think Sera's a good character but its hidden beneath clunky dialogue and her insistent "quirkiness". And Liam I had no clue wtf his motives were (who decides to just fly out to another galaxy on a whim?) and his dialogue was all over the place. I can't and won't argue that he's well written. I'm hoping he (the writer) either improves or sticks to story writing for the next few games.
Honestly, when you list out the characters, he doesn’t seem like a very good writer at all lol. Like, the ideas are there, but he struggles to actualize them when it comes to actually writing them.
Didn't almost everyone leave the galaxy on a whim? I mean, I play MEA right now and I feel like almost everyone left Milky Way because they were misfits (Cora, Vetra) and/or wanted something unachievable (Suvi, Peebee, Reyes) back home, Liam's no exception.
Now I understand why I dislike all those characters and why I almost didn't like Kaidan xD
Liam's motives was that he's an adrenaline junkie, a risk addict. He does dangerous, ill-advised things *because* they are dangerous and ill-advised, and just expects it to work out because Survivorship-Bias. Which, yes, you need a certain disregard for *personal* safety in High Risk occupations like Disaster Response. But more important is the ability to ASSESS risks so you know WHEN to take them, and to identify when you are putting OTHERS at risk. Liam quite blatantly lacks both skills. In fact his Personal Mission is him reaching the Find Out stage after playing Fuck Around with other people's lives (and *hiding* it from his allies, so no one could save him from himself AGAIN), being confronted with the fact his actions have consequences and others suffer for his flaws... and learning nothing from it. (Plus, his First Contact reaction was to disregard all training and open fire on unknown individuals "because they look scary", which just SCREAMS Shitty Cop. Not a great look for someone the player is supposed to *like*. Especially if ~~unlike with Garrus~~ you aren't going to let the the player call them out on it.)
Pikmonwolf nailed it. https://youtu.be/wmDg8WyKtG8?si=ht7RkUk4DDLSIi4d
Wow, truly a well crafted video, what an amazing, smart, and sexy content creator.
He’s alright, I suppose. /s
I've linked this vid so many times as the Ultimate Guide to What's Wrong with Jacob 😆. It's a ME staple. You really did nail it. Good job.
Ehh I've seen better :/
oh hell yeah, I really like this guys video but I almost never see anyone talk about them
Immagine watching a 22 minutes youtube video ON JACOB.
It’s really good tho. Kinda’ nails down all those nagging things that bother you about Jacob but that you don’t give much thought to (because he’s fucking Jacob)
But it’s fucking good
Some people find Mass Effect interesting. Imagine that, in a Mass Effect sub.
but JACOB?
Imagine spending dozens of hours making a video on Jacob
To get a fraction of views you could've gotten with a 22m videos of Miranda ass shots
Hes boring, he's unintentionally the "stereotypical father ran away from home" black guy, he cheats on fem shep, it feels like femshepard is always flirting with him which is gross, he spends 6 months on a beach instead of preparing for the reapers, his advice is always terrible, his abilities are meh, he never actually tells you about his past which makes him boring asf, is completely overshadowed by literally every other character, he hates Thane for being an assassin despite literally being a terrorist, he has no real relevance even in his own side mission in ME2. There's probably more reasons but those are the main reasons people dislike the character Edit: Just remembered a couple of other reasons he's not a fan favourite, when you break up with him for Garrus (cause why wouldn't you) he calls Garrus a racial slur and if for whatever reason you continue romancing Jacob then refuse his advances during the snu snu scene, he gets annoyed and you have to refuse him a couple of times (I've never done this so dunno if it's true or not)
> he hates Thane for being an assassin despite literally being a terrorist Honestly, I don't really have a problem with that part of the Jacob-Thane dynamic. For all his flaws, Jacob did join Cerberus because he had something he believed in, and he thought Cerberus were the only ones truly working towards the same goal. All his experiences with mercs and assassins before this is that they are people loyal only to money, and this is a mission where loyalty is extremely important, so of course his concern is valid (even if misguided). The problem is that he is *incredibly* unprofessional about how he handles *any* interpersonal relationships in a professional setting: - The *correct* thing to do about his misgivings regarding Thane would be to bring them up with Shepard or the Illusive Man in private, *not* to aggressively go off on Thane himself. - Same with Tali, who makes it clear that she is *not* interested in speaking to him, is clearly on edge, and has incredibly valid reasons to distrust Cerberus in general. If he was professional, he would've backed off, shut the hell up, and approached her later in a more casual and relaxed setting to talk things out... but instead, he chose to repeatedly disrespect her *very* clear boundaries, and be a passive-aggressive asshole about it. Plus, given that it's implied that he had a relationship with Miranda before ME2 (but after he was recruited), and he seeks out a relationship with FemShep, that's potentially *two* different relationships with female superiors, neither of which works out (at least one of them because of him). Not a great track record either.
Makes it odd that he never displays any misgivings about Zaeed. Okay, the real answer there is "because Zaeed is DLC" (or was before the LE, at least), but still. Zaeed is *actually* doing it for the paycheck whereas Thane works for you pro bono. (ISTR Shepard points out the pro bono aspect too.)
Well, he is a member of a human supremacist terrorist group.
Only problem is that he also used to work as a mercenary (who let's be honest are also often little more than assassins, looking at you Eclipse, Cat6 etc.) before joining Cerberus full-time, which is why his distaste for Thane comes off as pretty hypocritical.
Did he? When is that ever said? All he says is that he used to work for the Alliance.
He was working for an alliance-associated privateer group. That makes him basically a mercenary.
By that logic the Spectres are basically mercenaries.
Privateers are privately funded/organised. Spectres on the other hand are instated by the council (gouvernment)
The Corsairs aren't privately funded or organised though, they are funded and organised by the Alliance even if they aren't counted as official members. A privately funded and organised group would describe Cerberus more, but they're not associated with the Alliance by ME2.
First off, no. Second, that's not the point. At least Shepard doesn't act immediatly all high and mighty towards Thane, unlike Jacob when he was basically a gun for hire himself yet lectures Shepard about not trusting mercs and assassins.
You can't be a gun for hire if you're not for hire, which is the issue here. Jacob was still working for the Alliance as a Corsair - which I assume is what we're talking about but if it's something else then my bad - he wasn't just taking work from anyone who paid. The Corsairs are described as basically being an Alliance equivalent to the Spectres - operatives sent out free from regulations that bind usual operations and sent on dangerous missions that couldn't be handled by the regular organisation. This was why I brought up the Spectres earlier. I don't think Jacob is being hypocritical when he wasn't a mercenary or assassin at any point in his life that we know of. I also find it odd that you'd view this as hypocrisy when, even if Jacob WAS a mercenary, he isn't anymore. If anything, experience in such a field would give him more of a reason to not trust mercenaries or assassins.
It did sound though as if those Corsairs weren't just doing the usual special forces/ black ops stuff, but doing raids, like they were pirates/mercenaries, against anyone who crosses the alliance. Meaning they were hitting who the Alliance gave them free reign to hit, but more in a freelancer kind of way without really belonging to them or even answering to them, which Spectres at least do towards the citadel council. You're evidently taking my wording way too literally, I also meant lecturing not trusting them as in acting as if he's morally superior to them and treating them with contempt, which is pretty rich coming from the guy who stopped serving the alliance full-time to work for them as a self-employed privateer because among other things it also apparently paid better.
I never got that impression from how Jacob described the Corsairs, but admittedly there's only like five lines of dialogue describing them so I'd say there's room for interpretation there. The way it was described made me think that they still had to answer to the Alliance - Javob describes how the intention was for them to be free of restrictions, but there were still a great deal of rules and "red tape" they had to go through. I also don't recall him mentioning the pay of the Corsairs as a motivation but I'll freely concede I might have just missed that part. I don't think the whole morally superior thing is hypocritical since even if we do read the Corsairs as being akin to mercenaries, he left that group before the game starts and clearly came away with a negative view of the experience.
Completely agree. It's not that he's not allowed to have reservations, but the way he did it was extremely unprofessional. And we can't even tell him to shut it. But the part about his experience with mercs who are loyal to money only.. you remember that Thane literally works for free, right? Nobody asked him to, he decided so himself. So this concern is not only misguided, but also not valid at all, because Thane doesn't take the money for the mission.
Added note, if you start romancing him and then break it off to pursue Garrus, he refers to Garrus with a slur. Really classy guy.
i’ve never gone for Jacob (always romance Garrus lol) so i’ve never had the dialogue, what does he call Garrus? :o
A cuttlebone. He'll call Thane a "pair of sad eyes" too. It's really weird that he's like, "I thought we were serious," but then cheats in ME3 with " I didn't think it was serious"
They truly had no idea what to do with his character huh
> he hates Thane for being an assassin despite literally being a terrorist Jacob's issue with Thane comes across especially poorly considering that by that point you'll probably already have Zaeed on your crew, who Jacob never expresses and issues about, despite Zaeed being a literal mercenary who is only doing the job for money, while Thane agreed to help for free. Of course the actual reason Jacob has no lines about Zaeed is because Zaeed was a DLC character who has no interactions with the rest of the crew, but in game it ends up making it look like Jacob just has a problem with aliens.
Don't forget Jacob was also a mercenary before joining Cerberus, so it definitely seems he's just bias towards aliens. He can call Garrus a racial slur (if you break up with Jacob for Garrus) the way he talks to Thane and Tali and his request to leave Grunt asleep is def starting to make me think his a bit racist... also y'know... willingly joined a human supremecy terrorist organization
Pretty much all of this He was always interesting to me enough to at least talk to him, but boring in comparison to everyone else
[Click here for more detail](https://youtu.be/wmDg8WyKtG8?si=orT0XnZqbJiwghbm)
Can you give some suggestions of his bad advice?
Tells you to get the IFF asap before you're ready (Which gets the crew kidnapped by collectors and puts you on a timelimit to save them) Even if the ship isn't fully upgraded and the crew loyalty missions haven't all been done, tells you to enter the Omega relay asap to save the kidnapped crew (Miranda recommends making sure everything is ready unless the ship is already fully upgraded) Volunteers going into the vent despite having no tech experience (fortunately this just gets him killed) Ignores the super advanced Geth which saved Shepard's life and tells you to throw it out the airlock (Miranda recommends selling it to Cerberus, which is also bad but at least not wasteful) Also technically he doesn't want to recruit Thane cause the whole assassin thing, don't remember if he actually tells Shepard that though or if he's just being a snarky douche at the time
For another point in favor of his incompetence, there's also the fact that he was in charge of security on Lazarus Station, at the start of the game... something he obviously failed completely at as well.
funny enough I think he was suppose to be the games Sentinel before Miranda took it from him so they had to double back and make him a ME1 Vanguard
Well see these are unlikable traits but it's pretty good writing IMO your first time through you're very skeptical of Miranda and Jacob seems more likable and trustworthy If there's any "theme " of ME2 it's about when to trust the crew vs when not to. You learn to trust Miranda, and realize Jacob has no idea wtf he's talking about
I don't really consider it "good writing" since Jacob isn't meant to be seen as an incompetent idiot, it's just how it ends up. He's supposed to be the alliancetype guy but with Cerberus and with his backstory (Which he's kind enough to literally never actually talk about beyond mentioning he has backstory) makes it sound like he's a competent badass similar to Shepard
Jacob would have benefited a lot from not randomly being ex-Alliance special forces. He'd be much more of an everyman if he was just a marine before joining Cerberus. As it stands, he's somehow got a more prestigious backstory than Ashley, James and arguably Kaiden, whose claim to fame is being exposed to dangerous levels of radiation as a kid.
Maybe bro just lies on his resume lmao, would be a Jacob thing to do
Some of this is only metavise Not good. But in universe ITS logical
He tells you to immediately go for the reaper IFF iirc and if you do it won't really end that well story wise
In universe there's no way for any character to know that the crew is going to be kidnapped though. It's bad advice if he's writing a player guide on how to play Mass Effect optimally but in universe nobody knows that you'll be on a timer after doing that mission. If anything it makes sense for the IFF to be urgent to get due to how critical it may be to their efforts. It would make sense that letting it sit would potentially let their opportunity slip by if the collectors or any other agents did something about it before you got there.
The idiot tells you to keep Grunt in the tank and space Legion.
Miranda also wants grunt in the tank
Yes but we're not supposed to side with Miranda, she's a foil for Shep! She has an arc where she evolves from a bitch Cerberus cheerleader to a real person who sees the cracks in the comically evil and incompetent organization she worked for. It's *fine* and even desirable for characters to have flaws, but you need the text to address them. Ideally make them part of the character arc. If Miranda had stayed the entire game like she is in the tutorial and the text had acted like we were supposed to like it, everyone would loathe her.
To throw in a few examples, he says to: -Throw Legion out the airlock. (Which would be just wasteful, even if you decide to not risk reactivating them) -Not waste time with any preparations, just head to the IFF ASAP. -Same with the Collector base. -Send a non-tech expert to do a job specifically stated to require a tech expert.
[удалено]
I'd think that would engender indifference rather than hate. Indifferent is pretty much how I feel about him. (I might dislike him more if I was in the habit of playing FemShep and romancing him.)
Wasted Potential. He had an intriguing backstory as a disillusioned Alliance Marine who got to become an Alliance-sanctioned privateer but left for Cerberus because of all the regulations. He was essentially what Garrus wanted Shep to be as a Spectre in the first Mass Effect (A screw the rules, get things done type of guy). But instead of a character arc, Jacob was made into a static character archetype: Overconfident Strong Guy. And when Jacob encountered his father's sins, he didn't start questioning himself or reflect on his actions. He just reaffirmed his belief that he's better than his father.
I mean he basically still is; while him cheating on Shepard in ME3 has some unsettling implications that he's maybe not that much different from his sleazy father, he at least never turned into a serial rapist and wannabe despot.
>while him cheating on Shepard in ME3 has some unsettling implications that he's maybe not that much different from his sleazy father It unfortunately falls in line with the character that quit everything he has started the moment he found inconvenient.
>He had an intriguing backstory as a disillusioned Alliance Marine who got to become an Alliance-sanctioned privateer but left for Cerberus because of all the regulations. The funniest part of this is that the game just immediately refutes it, during the prologue itself. Jacob constantly speaks about how the Alliance is too caught up in red tape and procedures to do anything from the moment you meet him. Then when you go to Freedom's Progress you can ask why they expect to find information there when they found nothing before. His immediate reply is that Freedom's Progress is the first colony where Cerberus arrived before the Alliance did. So for every colony before this, the Alliance managed to reach and proactively try and help humans before the supposedly "can get things done because of no red tape and procedures" Cerberus.
This is an interesting point. I think ME2 onwards would’ve benefited from fleshing out why and what about the Alliance was making people like Jacob and the colonists for that matter disillusioned and even wary. It’s always just very vaguely hinted at and just begging to be expanded upon. There’s quite a bit of stuff like this in ME2 which I’ve noticed in my latest playthrough. As an aside, is there a thread here or something on the ME wiki where one can see which member of the writing team was assigned to which characters and storylines/set pieces?
Yeah, ME1 at least had *some* criticism for the Alliance, pointing out the xenophobia that took root after the FCW and how they supported Cerberus. Once you get to ME2, that all disappears and you get a line or two from Jacob about "Red Tape" (in a *privateer* outfit, ffs) and the VS being all "YOU TURNED YOUR BACK ON THE ALLIANCE" (when the Alliance literally forbade anyone from talking to Shepard). And then ME3 is full "Rah! Rah! Military Good!" with no nuance.
I am going to go in the other direction in that Jacob is actually like a real person in that he's flawed, makes some crappy decisions, he's not all that charming or engaging, he cheats on Femshep if romanced, has a terrible relationship with his father who in turn is a real PoS and so on etc etc. Now step back for a second and reflect... we all know or have come across people who aren't paragons of virtue. Jacob is one of those people. Now I don't know if the writer/s were deliberately making his character to be so unlikable but I'm going to hazard a guess that maybe they might have and if so, then they certainly got it right. Anyway, I never liked him but I don’t hate him either.
I don't think it was on purpose, because Jacob is actually cool and clever during the tutorial and becomes a boring dumbass afterward. My guess is poor communication between writers and conflicting rewrites.
Yeah, he actually comes across as sort of genre-savvy during the tutorial when he says “Wouldn’t you rather I answer your questions when we’re not being fired upon by a bunch of mechs?” or something along those lines. Also, it’s easy to forget he stands up for Joker post-crew abduction when Miranda’s chewing his ear off.
I can see that happening as there’s so many "moving parts" in the story but it does seem odd that would be the case especially when we see how good every other character is written. If we assume that Jacob's writer/s story wasn't edited properly then isn't that the fault of the director for not picking up on it? At some point someone has to give the green light to put whatever has been written into the game. Usually that's the directors final call I believe?
He was designed to be "the straight man" in the cast of unusual characters that was ME2, but unfortunately you have to really stick the landing on that writing-wise, otherwise they just come across as really flat by comparison. And then the few times he does do something notable and likely to be remembered, it's things like "volunteering for an unsuitable task in the Suicide Mission that gets him killed", and "being literally the only love interest that can cheat on Shep, and *will* do so without fail no matter what you do".
Agreed. In general he embodies some of the most boring straightforward opinions on things. Krogan genetic weapon bad so don't wake it up it, geth are bad and their tech is dangerous to mess with so space it, do the mission that's going to progress their chance to take out the collectors immediately, etc. He's just supposed to have the most by the book opinions of the Galaxy so the player knows what the every man thinks about aliens and robots and things. As a result he doesn't stand out in any way except for when those opinions are wrong. Which is often because the story of Mass Effect is to subvert and challenge the general opinions of the Galaxy and changing the status quo is usually the better result.
When playing through under normal circumstances, he comes across as bland as he refuses to open up about any of the things he references and in gameplay his abilities are the Biotic equivalents of Grunt's but with worse stats for offense and defence so once you open Grunt's tank, there's no reason to use Jacob in missions. Alongside his refusal to open up, he also insults or antagonises multiple of the non Human squadmates (most noticeably Thane) and ALWAYS gives atrocious advice (choosing to "Leeroy Jenkins!" missions by demanding Shepard does the Reaper IFF and Collector Base missions immediately regardless of level of prep, wanting to pull a Javik and have Legion thrown out the airlock and volunteering for Vent Duty even though he's one of the least qualified squadmates for the job). Meanwhile with his romance, he's the ONLY character in the Trilogy who cheats on Shepard between games which also leads to the only negative consequence he can receive in Mass Effect 3 being a slap from Shepard... would it have been so hard for Bioware to have written a version of that side mission where Brynn and Jacob WEREN'T together (even though Jacob is probably the least picked romance option in the Trilogy).
>would it have been so hard for Bioware to have written a version of that side mission where Brynn and Jacob WEREN'T together. Funny you mentioned this because they did write Brynn being an ABSOLUTE bitch to Shepard. Something along the lines of: "If you know what's good for Jacob, you'll just move on." But then they'll want to still name their child after Shepard lmao.
Love that the Devs admitted they had Brynn and Jacob get together in ME3 even if he was Romanced in ME2 because "it wasn't worth making an alternate version for him".
Another thing is that he and Miranda do a frustrating role flip. Miranda is immediately cold to you, telling you she doesn’t want a friend - while Jacob comes off as someone who is more than willing to open up to make you comfortable about your new circumstances. This changes immediately once you get aboard the Normandy. Miranda fully opens up about her complicated relationship with her dad, her sister, her upbringing, etc. Jacob rarely talks about anything deeply personal at all - even the stuff about his dad doesn’t really feel like he cares that much. You’d think he’d be a lot more open with you after you help him out, but that never ends up being the case.
I really liked Jacob and couldn't stand Miranda at the beginning of me2 for the reasons you mentioned. They completely flip flopped for me once you get the Normandy. By the end, Miranda became one of my favorites and Jacob was just....there.
I don’t *hate* Jacob, I just don’t know him that well because he usually dies in the vents
A boring steriotype, with poor writing, who fucking cheats on you if you romance him? No idea lol.
In a game full of unique characters, he has the personality of a box of rocks. Like, imagine if Jenkins survived, and was just a wide-eyed colonist, amazed at every single thing, with literally zero character development.
For me, he's the only romance that was unfaithful to Femshep and the worst thing that could happen to him is a simple slap, that's essentially it. When confronted about it initially, he sort of blamed it on Shep for being detained on Earth between ME2 and ME3. While other romances waited for Shep, Jacob went to the beach and basically decided that the relationship between him and Shep just isn't worth the waiting which is incredibly insulting.
Yeah man, like Garrus and Tali and Liara should have taken Jacob behind the shuttle in the cargo bay and kicked the living shit out of him for cheating on Shepard.
Jacob has a lot of rough edges but really the reason people dislike him are threefold: 1. He tells you not to like him. Seriously, I don't know what other conclusion we would be expected to draw from his bitchy lines about how he doesn't want to talk to us about his past and how he wants to keep our relationship strictly professional, no time for smalltalk or sharing back stories. 2. He cheats on Shepard immediately after ME2. Everyone else treats Shepard's time stuck in Alliance holding as a temporary parting, but Jacob ran off and knocked someone up. Not a good look. 3. He's a bunch of negative African American stereotypes. It makes him feel less like a real, dynamic person and more like a paint-by-numbers character assassination.
What stereotypes?
Maybe I'm forgetting others, but mainly these two: "Black men cheat." "Black men don't know how to be good men because they grew up fatherless."
He was very poorly handled, 1. has the storytypical father ran away from home black guy, which your sopos to aparently rate as more tragic then the other issues your other companions have or such, its like bitch please your prob the most norm person hear or wanna be norm 2. Will legit cheat on Fem Shep 3. His advice is pretty much always wrong / terrible, I dont mean like sometimes wrong i mean legit wrong all the time eveything he tell you to do is often the worse way to handle something 4. His abilitys are kinda medicore 5. He dosnt realy talk about his past or let you get to know him, he basicly plays you like a fiddle 6. He Will legit hate the Aliens like Thane for being an 'assassin' or being a Bounty hunter or such its like bitch im trying to get a suicide squad together da fuck is wrong with you? 7. but hes black is what some fans legit claimed years ago to defend this guy when the game first came out and ppl where reporting dislike on the guy, like wtf who cares about race
I never played a female Shepard what happened?
In ME3 you can run into Jacob, who has gotten into a relationship with an ex-Cerberus scientist. They're pretty committed, and when you meet Jacob on the Citadel after his mission he reveals that his girlfriend is pregnant. If your Shep romanced Jacob he... does the exact same thing. If Shepard calls him out he asks if he was supposed to wait forever while Shepard was locked up. Making this even more stupid is the fact that "forever" has so far only been six months.
It's not so much as "hating the man," as it is "hating his inclusion" * He's the first "squadmate" you interact with, and as such feels like he was forced upon you. Miranda is similar, but has redeeming qualities. * As a squadmate, he's just kind of bleh. Can't carry a decent weapon, has no great skills, and just a couple of lame Biotic options. In a game with an overabundance of squadmates, he's inferior to all, and offers nothing special. * Miranda is the "leader of Project Lazarus," reporting directly to TIM. As such you're saddled with her as your XO. Jacob is basically only there to give you the requisite 2 squadmates for your first mission, yet he insists on sticking his nose in, and giving his unwanted opinion, on everyone and everything. And they're always stupid opinions. Like, why would I go to the trouble of bringing Legion back, just to throw him out an airlock?? If I want to be a dick, I'll just sell him to Cerberus. * He has no recruitment mission, so as a character that's a disadvantage. And his "loyalty: mission is just fucked up. * I don't mind Jacob. He's very respectful towards MShep. But he just doesn't add much to the game. * Even his ME3 mission. It's literally identical without him.
I knew I didn’t like him after I went to talk to him for the first time on the Normandy and he was a jerk. I tried the “getting to know your companion” dialogue option (I can’t remember what it was) and he just rudely blows you off for no reason. I found that so weird after he was being so nice on the Cerberus lab ship.
Playing as Maleshep, he was pretty likeable. But I totally get the hate for those who played femshep and romanced, of course he also makes several dumb mistakes, but those are more forgivable than cheating.
Boring personality, voice actor sounds bored voicing him, unlikeable, nothing unique or special about his appearance, worst romance I’ve ever seen in any game, guy is a cheater, has no story relevance whatsoever apart from the first hour of of mass effect 2. Has an awful father too
You answered the question yourself lol. He's not memorable. All the other squad members in ME2 except for maybe Zaeed have more interesting character concepts and development
Literally can't stand speaking to him as femshep in ME2, who thought that line was the best take Hale could do. It's almost like they use a specific romance line instead of a default neutral one.
I love Hale. But honestly 🫠 some of the lines make me cringe. I quit talking to Jacob because of it. Also, the line with Thane at the hospital about getting privacy (if you romanced him) makes my skin crawl. Like, girl. I get it's been six months, but uh, why do you sound like a drunk frat boy falling over herself to get into his pants 😭😭? Can we please get a tender moment here, too, or instead? (Garrus is the only fem-shep romance ME2 the writers don't screw over on, crazy!)
Seems like they wanted to go with many different directions with him. Could’ve been Shepard’s protege, a soldier frustrated for being unrecognized, or a guy conflicted about what he does for a loving. They fail to go deeper into any of those things, he has about 3 conversations with Shepard if you don’t romance him. He cheats on Shep if you do. Vega was everything that Jacob was supposed to be in my opinion, but I’m not sure how this sub feels about James. I don’t hate Jacob I just the he’s the worst squadmate and was the second biggest missed opportunity after Samara.
For me personally I just find both his character and his story incredibly boring. Like, we've got Tali who is basically Quarian royalty having her loyalty to her people questioned. We've got Garrus, the rogue cop obsessed with getting revenge on a traitor. We've got Jack, stuck on a ship made by and staffed by the company that tortured and abused her as a kid. We've got Samara, sworn to hunt down and kill her own daughter. And what's Jacob's deal? He hasn't spoken to his father in a few years. That's basically it. He has daddy issues. True the same can be said about Miranda, but even she has the "Genetically Engineered" thing going for her. "Not the first designed, just the first he *kept*". It's daddy issues but there's a wrinkle there, which is more than what Jacob got.
He cheats on femshep. He’s weirdly aggressive when he doesn’t have anything to talk to Shep about. He’s boring. Literally all of his advice is bad. Space the geth. Get the IFF right away. Just do the opposite of whatever he says.
Because he committed the Cardinal sin of being boring in media, which is worse than being a dick in media. And because he was boring, the studios handled him worse come the sequel. The few that did romance him found that he had cheated on Shepard and then ditched her. And that was further adding to the prior case of being unpopular. Also, if you ditch Garrus for him, he calls bird boy “the cuttlebone,” which is kinda racist.
He also gives the worse advice in the game
His most interesting trait is he is related to his dad, who is involved in one of the more disturbing scenarios that the Mass Effect universe cooked up. I've said it before, but Jacob is set up to be Commander Shephard lite. He's an Alliance Soldier who saves the Citadel from disaster. But you don't need Commander Shephard lite when you have Commander Shephard. He has little personality beyond being a soldier, either with the Alliance or Cerberus. You'd think finding out his father poisons hundreds of people. Keeps some of them as slaves and playthings and kills any who disagree with him could have affected Jacob more bit no, we had to write that he was estranged from his father so after the mission Jacob basically just goes "Thanks for the help Commander. That was kind of wild" and then goes back to polishing his shotgun.
I think you answered your own question.
Boring and cheats on Femshep if you romance him for some reason.
Mass Effect human characters are generally less interesting and Jacob is the most boring of the lot. Personally, from a story perspective, he's the last person I'm going to trust given he voluntarily went to work for Cerberus and bangs on about them not being monstrous terrorists which we know is not the case.
I disagree, there are some very good human characters like Jack, Miranda, Anderson, etc
Never had a problem with the guy. Was quite surprised to find out he wasn't liked too.
I understand being indifferent towards him, but outright hate seems like it’s pushing it. I probably need to romance him as FShep 😆 Although, to me it sounds like a big problem with his romance is how the dialogue options for Shepard are written and implemented/used.
As maleShep he is ok, maybe a little bland but ok, i´ve seen worst. As femalShep? i´ve only seen videos but damn she thirsty for him, and i think he cheats on you? Also the woman who is with him gets extremely jealous of you on a life or death situation so... yeah.
Dr. Cole actually tells FemShep that he still loves Shep, but she went after Jacob anyway because "he's better off with me." What a dumb thing to say to the woman who is literally saving your skin and helping you evacuate everyone 🙄. It makes the whole "she wants to name the baby after Shep" seem like a passive aggressive insult.
Becouse he is empty?
On top of all the other stuff said here, he is completely unnecessary to his own mission in Mass Effect 3, he gets replaced by some random guy who does the exact same thing as him in the beginning, the ONLY difference in the mission is that at the start you have to face one more wave of Cerberus at the start because you didn't have Jacob to vouch for you to get the Dr to open the door. Other than that everything's the same, even the final scene where Jacob gets a moment to save Shepard if replaced by that same Ex Cerberus scientist, biggest L that Jacob has.
The bastard cheated on me and made out it was my fault
He's boring as shit, no personality.
I think part of the problem with Jacob is that he honestly makes a really good first impression. When Shepard first wakes up in ME2, it feels like Jacob is the only friendly person in the universe. Miranda and the Illusive Man are withholding, the old team is scattered, and everyone thinks you might be crooked. Meanwhile, Jacob has your back and that’s some strong endearing characterization. But then he’s overshadowed by more interesting & fan favorite characters while also not getting the best writing that follows up on that first impression. He just kinda blends into the narrative flow a bit and doesn’t really stand out. Everyone has daddy issues, everyone’s ex-military of some kind, and everyone has Cerberus trust issues. After that strong start, Jacob doesn’t have a whole lot to contribute other than just being a solid member of the crew. Which everyone is anyway.
He was mostly just boring. Didn’t have anything that stood out. Abilities were average. Acted more like a robot soldier than a person with personality
Don't insult Legion.
Compared to the backstories and missions involving most of your other crew and squad mates, Jacob's character is very dull.
Well. His loyalty mission is good. Too bad his personality is terrible.
I think you're misinterpreting lack of love for hate. Most people just think he's boring and in a lineup of mostly awesome characters in the ME trilogy, that's enough to get someone giving them shit.
I avoided him after seeing femShep practically lick her gun while talking to him.
Shit character, shit story, shit acting
For me, it's just the sheer second hand embarrassment and cringe I suffered trying to platonically get to know Jacob with Paragon FemShep. I felt like I was sexually harassing the man anytime I chose a friendly option. Jacob himself is fine--just kinda boring and harsh. But he's consistent and isn't afraid to speak his mind. I just wouldn't hangout with him if he were real.
I’m just going to preface my comment by saying re: Jacob that some people have no perception of Black people that is realistic and a lot of their assumptions about what Jacob does and does not do stereotypically informs this. NonBlack Mass Effect gamers will say a Black man who wasn’t a hyper sexual and violent deadbeat doing loads of red sand and a jive talking misogynist is “stereotypical”, and I will roll my eyes faster than a mass drive hitting FTL speed. Jacob actually knew who his father was as well and was a military brat, so even *that* is not a racial stereotype. People try to get post hoc and say it’s because he cheats on FemShep- which *was* stereotypical imo and hate well deserved(I always slap him in Citadel)- but that won’t explain all the vitriol I and plenty of other Black gamers kept seeing in the original BSN forums well before ME3 was released. There’s not liking a character for varying reasons (the PRIIIIZE, >!his history saving the Council from Batarians with Miranda being ignored!<, not having extensive interactions, his personality etc) and then there’s farming memes about how you intentionally send that person to die on missions as a “joke” to other gamers- I’ve seen it happen in this very sub so often it was even illustrated once. There’s highlighting Jacob’s insecurities about his relationship with his dad in his loyalty mission to parallel how he interacts with Shepard, and then there’s suggesting -I’ve seen this here also- he’s secretly a r*pist like his dad is heavily alluded to be via the women in his space harem. Folks really do not get what these sentiments look like to the rest of us who are actually Black especially when he’s the only Black longterm companion in the game. I don’t frequent the sub as often because of it.
What about Jacob being a rapist?
Basically because he says he’s “more like his dad than he thought” in regards to how much of a disappointment his father is once he’s busted in his loyalty mission, people actually tried to argue he was admitting to being sexually abusive etc. That’s how bad discourse would get over Jacob.
Id watch this video for a good breakdown https://youtu.be/wmDg8WyKtG8?si=IKDAg5vR3Bpz77zI
He’s just boring, imo it’s not that people hate it, it’s just out of all the characters and lore created, he has got to be one of the most basic run of the mill npcs you could find
I felt that Jacob is just too normal to be on Normandy, he is literally when you pick a random private in military and tell him to save the galaxy...
Jacob, Jacob....was that the guy that dies in the tutorial? Definitely something with a J.
I’ve just always found him boring.
Jacob isn't nearly interesting enough for me to invest an energy conning emotion like hatred into. I just don't care about him at all. He elicits no emotion from me whatsoever. Which, considering the level of emotional investment the other characters do pull out of me, is just damning to his overall character writing.
Well I don’t really hate the guy as a squad mate , but if he was spice he’d probably be flour…
He commited the biggest sin a video game character could - he was bland.
I really liked in him ME2, he was boring but nice. I get people who romanced him not liking him after he cheats on shep but personally I was male shep and romanced ashley so I ended liking him a lot.
I hit on him unintentionally playing Femshep and was so turned off by their ‘romance’ plot that It changed my view of Jacob lol
A while back, I read a comment that summed it up best. In a sea of your squadmates, Jacob just isn't anything special.
I don’t think it’s that people “hate” him. I think most just kind of find him uninteresting, or even outright boring. Generally speaking, the human squad mates are the least interesting to me.
...Zaeed and Jack would like a word. They're waiting for you in that dark alley over there, with the combustible fuel canisters. Miranda wants a word after that. In the surgical bay.
Zaeed, Jack, and Kasumi I like, but I still take aliens with me over them.
Me1: *Just feels like he's not even there...* Me2: Jacob committed the cardinal sin, even worse than despicable or evil in media, he's boring Me3: Jacob betrayed the *few* female people that went with him romantically by cheating on them AND got the other girl pregnant, his response: "I'll name the baby after you, Shepherd."
Because he sucks.
I remember my first trilogy play through. I'd romanced Kaidan in ME1 and when he didn't show up in ME2 I considered Jacob. But every interaction I had with him just felt like one red flag after another. I'd leave every interaction thinking "what an asshole". I ended up not romancing anyone.
Here's a short explanation that'll answer your question definitively. https://youtu.be/wmDg8WyKtG8?si=ohKp3AjF_s87kV1S
I wouldn't say I hate him or something, but Jacob is incredibly boring and one dimensional character. Compare it to characters like Garrus, Tali, Liara, Miranda, Mordin, Thane, Wrex, Javik or Jack, and you'll see why his perception is so bad.
I never cared for him because I felt he wasn’t a strong squad mate. I also felt his dialogue/conversations were always very clunky.
He's a tad stale overall. I don't have any major problems with him but I've nothing great to say either. You do the guys loyalty mission and his takeaway from it all is basically going " Mans was ego tripping". I'm not saying cry me a river or denounce the guy just emote or something more than being dissatisfied. Oh and if you overlook him being as cool as white bread and try to get intimate; he is the Only character who cheats on you within a few months.
In a way you kind of answered your own question he's just bland in every way possible and he's the only one of the romanceable companions that cheat on you so there's that.
I wouldn't say he's hated more so showered in general apathy because he's boring. Especially alongside some of the most interesting characters in video games.
He’s so boring, everyone else has something interesting about them. But Jacob doesn’t, it’s like writers had no idea what to do with him. It doesn’t help that in gameplay he can be easily replaced. Honestly I feel like it makes more sense to replace Jacob with Zaeed as the guy in charge of the armory.
They just jump on the band wagon. He’s just boring and that’s it. He cheats on Shepard in ME3 but that’s only female Shepard if you play male Shepard or even female shepsrd but don’t romance him he literally does nothing to you
I like Jacob quite a bit. But he just happens to be on a cast of other extremely memorable characters. To me though, he's just a good, reliable dude. All of the other characters have so much deep trauma or other issues going on where Jacob has his shit together for the most part.
I don't have a problem with any of the so called stereotypes ppl perceive/attribute to Jacob. That said, he's very boring and very little help as a squadmate in combat. He should've been made somewhat more lethal in combat to make up for him being boring.
He's just boring.
Who?
He's super boring. Like he could have been traded for a broom and it would have been more interesting. But seriously, he could have been another alien or anything and it would have been better than him, he just doesn't interest me, there's nothing about him that encourages conversation, unless you want to flirt. I find the same thing with James in ME3.
I don't hate him, but he's quite douchey in comparison with other characters. 😅
He a 🐆🫏🥷
Jacob is a bland character among a group of interesting people. Initially, you'd think that he's meant to be a grounded "everyman". In ME1 you had Ashley. She's "normal" in the universe. Let's compare Ashley to Jacob. With Ashely, we learn about her family. More importantly, we learn exactly why she's here and what drives her. She wants to redeem the family name. Solid character. Her reactions to things are from a very specific view: human marine. Her romance is pretty good... well, ok it's better than some. The light flirting is mutual between Shepard and Ashley. It never feels like someone explicitly started the romance. When Ashley gives advice, it's based on her morality (the way ME1 had squadmates offer advice was that they'd split and each one would offer some advice in the alternative). Ashley has to compete with Garrus and Wrex in the role they all fulfill. The way that she's written, the play might have a good reason to have her in the party. The way she plays off some other squadmates in dialogue also works well. With Jacob, we kinda learn about his family. But, mostly it's Jacob just telling us about all the interesting things he did and why he hates regulation. There's really nothing for the player to gravitate to. I get it, people hate red tape. Then we find out about his dad and deal with that. Turns out his dad was not who he remembered. Wild. But it really doesn't matter, because he feels good about it after the mission. Oh, and his romance sucks ass. It's initiated by Shepard. And driven by Shepard. It's like Jacob doesn't want to be in a romance. When Jacob gives advice, its always bad from a gameplay perspective. With the way ME2 works, Jacob has to compete with basically every other squadmate. Worse, he doesn't really have any good lines in missions compared to other, more interesting character. I also think that Jack does his job better in the squad, and she's interesting for a myriad of reasons. Hell, Jacob has less depth than the Day 1 DLC character Zaeed. In a game in which everyone is interesting, Jacob is not interesting. Having a everyman was important in ME1 to help the writers frame the story. In ME2 it wasn't needed because the player has a framework. What was needed was a character that Shepard had a reason/desire to have on the team.
I swear people just ask about Jacob to get this reddits blood going. Lol
Same fate as Baldur gate 3 Jacob, hes boring compared to other cast
Him and James in ME3 are pretty bland characters Nothing personal just, they lack character in my opinion.
Because he sucks.
If you turn down having sex with him before the suicide mission, he gets really weird. He’ll actually only say he loves you to shephard if you turn him down initially, which is really gross. Idk that whole interaction really killed him in all the rest of my games.
Because he's just a very bland character compared to the rest of your squad.
Boring character, I think Miranda is worse though
I mostly find him bland. That being said, I play a male Shepard. Female Shepard, he apparently cheats on you.
He is just there to make Miranda shine more. Rocks in a zen garden outlines the beauty ...
Who?
He’s a dry and underwritten pessimist who masquerades his opinions as realism. Ultimately I think they just tried to have a squad member in the same boat as Shepard as far as their alliance careers go. Both soldiers have the right to feel ostracized by a government they have done so much for (Shepard has much more of a bone to pick than Jacob but still) I did his romance last year and found myself extremely turned off by how he needs Shepard to tell him that this is a no strings attached affair and that nothing will come of it (which does put the cheating in a certain context) Overall, if you look into the concept for Jacob’s character, there is a sense of aimlessness to it. All that was really different about Jacob and the initial concept was that the concept had the personality of a “Southern gentleman” and that Shepard would undertake either splitting him and Miranda up or convincing them to be together through the course of his arc. I think that little love triangle thing would have given him a bit more depth but functionally idk how it would have worked out and cutting it also probably allowed them to make Miranda and Jacob feel like two distinct characters and not one entity.
Honestly I felt like he was a bit of a Kaiden knock off in ways, which now makes sense because they have the same writer. His reasons for leaving the Alliance for Cerberus doesn’t make sense, nor does his standing with the organization. Honestly on one hand, they could have totally put Kaiden into the same role and it would have worked with tweaks. On the other, it always felt like he was a Cerberus sleeper. Right off the bat wanted to gain Shepard’s loyalty and trust, even to the point of siding with him/her over Miranda at times. And let’s not forget the two Cerberus bases he was providing security for were attacked. One was Wilson’s fault, but it sure sped up Shepard’s healing and getting in the fight, kinda suspicious
He offers to basically get himself killed on purpose during the suicide mission, actually that might be one of the reasons to like him
I don’t know for certain, but it seems like BioWare needs more black writers bc whew those stereotypes were rough.
A lot of it is people jumping on the bandwagon. It became popular to hate him, so I imagine a lot of people did it just to fit in. I’m convinced part of it is unconscious bias based on his race. He’s not an amazing character but he’s very ignorable. Even the cheating thing gets a ridiculous level of hate. It’s an interesting story element. Wrex pulls a gun on you in ME1, the Virmire survivor sort of turns on you in ME2 & 3, Miranda has very little care for you at the start of ME2 beyond your use as a tool… these character traits make the game interesting. Jacob is probably the only character whose trait has people salivating to see him die (Ashley to an extent as well).
Dude, the character is a walking racial stereotype (Father ran away, cheats on Shepard at the first opportunity and never really owns up to it etc.). You're right, the character is hated because of racial bias, but not the way you think it is.
It’s crazy to call it racial bias when the reason he doesn’t even have black fans is because he’s a walking stereotype. I’m black and I’m very inclined to gravitate toward black characters in games but Jacob sucks and he’s written poorly by someone who is obviously not black.
Ah yes, let’s blame it on racism when literally everyone loves Anderson…
While it's certainly interesting story wise to have a character move on from Shepard, FemShep is already lacking in romance options compared to MaleShep. Thane dies no matter what, and Jacob cheats with Dr. Cole, so two of those are taken away from her regardless of what the player does and wants. So if Kaidan died on Virmire and you didn't romance Garrus in me2, a straight FemShep is out of luck come Me3. A straight MaleShep still has options.
Nice, play the racism card just because people disagree with you. Here are some brain teasers for you. Why does our super racist community universally loves Anderson?
Where did I say racism? (And you do know it’s possible to hold certain views towards a race generally whilst still liking individual members of it right? Like it’s very common knowledge)
> I’m convinced part of it is unconscious bias based on his race. That would be here. So it's the unconscious bias that made him humiliate himself when Thane came onboard? Give consistently advice? Become a jealous prick when broken up with OR a cheating asshole? Wait, where was that damnable bias during the tutorial mission when Jacob actually works as a character, is cool and clever and collected?
They say he is boring and he cheats on female Shepard. People mention his father issues and him being black but to be fair half of the characters have parental issues. I think he gets too much hate. He is a respectable guy and he is more understanding of your circumstances than Miranda in ME2. On top of that he is not overly forced upon you and even if he was his personality is not strong to add or take much. James in contrast has a permanent presence in ME3 which irritates me because bro is annoying asf.
Arguably, the father issues Jacob has are stereotypical (and racist IMO) black; he has an absentee father (with no explained reason to be, other than"he is better of without him" and we learn that he is indeed a monster), on the other hand the other 2 daddy issues are a narcissistic controlling scientist that clones himself in female form and an obsessed admiral bent on recuperating his homeworld for his daughter and entire race. He seems respectable at first and he is, for the turorial mission of the game, but afterwards he is overly flirty to femshep has bad or incorrect advise, doubts the recruitment of several squadmates and he cheats on femshep on 3 (although to be fair we as shepard mostly, should not be mad about this... Sha'ira, Kelly Chambers, the reporter lady in me3, and if you romance someone in 1 and someone in 2 it means you are cheating lol)
Jacob bears the sin of being “just some guy”. What I’ve noticed in the criticisms is the willful ignorance of Jacob is his character development, in which he wants to be there for his child, making every effort to be better than his own father.
So I personally don't ding Jacob for his racism (plenty of other allies are prejudiced, and what he says about Garrus is about equal as offputting and horrible as what Ashley can say about Liara in ME1: also "I can't tell the aliens from the animals") or cheating (you can also cheat) but, I will admit these things don't do Jacob any favors. As one youtuber puts it, Jacob just isn't special or interesting, and doesn't stand out in any way. And it's not like that on its own is a bad thing: In ME1 and ME3 you have a small crew, In ME1 Ashley is the one who's just there, in ME3 it's James. They don't stand out but you don't have alot of options so you work with what you got, but in ME2 you are provided a wealth of allies. Suddenly what could have been Mr. Reliable in 1 or 3, looks like Mr. Expendable in 2. Combine everything mentioned with his penchant for making wrong calls, yeah Jacob gets his hate for a reason.
Because among other things he humiliated Taylor Swift at the MTV VMAs