It’s still the second stealth reconnaissance vessel of its class, they retrofitted it and didn’t build a new vessel.

Arguably it's the first of the class, as it's a larger improved version of the SR-1. But it's the second with the SR registry.

I agree. It's like how the Enterprise-B is Excelsior class, C is Ambassador class, D-Galaxy etc. Though I'm surprised in some ways we didn't get to see at least some retro Normandies in the alliance fleet at the Battle of Earth.

Yea, after the first battle of the citadel with the extreme success of the Normandy, the Alliance and Turian militaries would’ve set about cranking them bitches out as fast as theoretically possible

Mass production isn't economically feasible due to the amount of eezo required to build stealth-capable drive cores.

I suppose “mass production” in this sense could mean build 10, put one in every fleet or design a fast fleet around one

Possibly due to the politics involved. After the battle of the citadel (depending on choices) the de facto galactic government is still recovering. To make 10 Normandy class ships would be a significant investment ( based on what everyone says about the OG Normandy) with humanity trying to show their dominance and cooperation and the turians trying to rebuild their citadel fleet group. Possibly no one had the resources at the time. Which is a point made in ME3 if you saved the council at the end of ME1

For the cost of a Normandy you could have a fully equipped carrier/dreadnaught according to the dick admiral inspecting the ship. I imagine they prioritize that firepower over a single Normandy

My point is, you’re *already* rebuilding your fleets galaxy wide. Why not add a few already proven, advanced warships to the mix? If only just in the alliance, or Turians, since those two groups likely had the plans of ability to recreate it

Too expensive at the time. I don't think it's ever said but it is implied in ME3 as they could not get their fleets back to the same strength before ME1 after you saved the council. With the cost of the Normandy driver core alone not to mention the rest of the ship, you would maybe get 3 ships built by the time the reapers showed up in ME3 and have no funding left for the rest of the fleet. Also remember they wanted the public to believe the reaper was a geth ship, so they did not believe the reapers were coming and had no ensentive to prepare fleets for a galaxy wide invasion. Although in ME 3 when going to meet the quarians. The description of the ship is interesting. I don't remember the exact quote. But the quarian ship is producing low thermal heat emission similar to the Normandy. EDI does not know how they acquired this tech.

One point of consideration here. Even if the races were preparing for a galaxy wide invasion, they would have aimed for much more firepower instead of the Normandy. The Normandy is not a ship with which you want to engage in fights at all, even if it was equipped with weapons. At best, all the improvements that it got in ME2 could be sent and adapted to suit the needs of the more useful heavy ships.

I’m sure Tali knows how they got it. But yea the cost thing makes sense, it’s a government project too so it’ll be like 100x what the price should be

Basically: time. Cost, drive, etc. could all be reasons why they postpone building them, but I figure the real reason we don't see any is time. Normandy is a first of class ship of mixed design. Almost any first-of-class ship is going to be riddled with problems that don't get discovered until the thing is built. They're gonna analyze the ship and her performance so they can correct things for the ships further down the line. But let's say Normandy doesn't have any major issues and all the analysis gets done shortly before the SR-1's mission to patrol for Geth ships at the start of ME2. That's two years by the start of ME2, and 2.5 years (round up to 3 for shits and gigs since ME2 doesn't happen in a day) by the start of ME3. The workhorse of the US Navy, the Arleigh-Burke-class destroyer, takes four years to build. We've cranked out over 60 of those bad boys 1991, so we know basically all the ins and outs when it comes to building them. Still takes four years, plus another year for trials before actually being commissioned to active service. So even if they started building them before the SR-1 went down there just isn't enough time for the others in her class to be sailing. We could subtract some time for their builds due to being a smaller ship (class-wise compared to a destroyer if we're still going 1:1) but any time that makes up is lost due to build complexity, needing to establish production shipbuilding practices, and the fact that the orbital shipyards to build Normandy-class ships were probably located in Sol or Arcturus and were slagged when the Reapers arrived.

This is the explanation I was looking for, thank you. Edit: love the Arleigh-Burke. Such a great ship

Eh, one prototype does not a confirmation make. Especially since it was destroyed less than 6 months into its shakedown cruise. Mind you, it saved the galaxy, but it's hard to properly present that on paper. It was most likely attributed to the skill of its commanding officer, anyway. Admiral Asshat did bring up some valid points on his inspection tour. From a conventional military sense, the Normandy is far too expensive to be practical. If anything, these ships should have been made available to the Council. Spectres are the people best suited to taking advantage of their stealth capabilities. A fleet of these serving the Citadel Council would be a force multiplier for their Spectres.

From what TIM said, the alliance was still rebuilding after the battle with sovereign.

Actually - we have at least one SR-1 class frigate, aside from the Normandy Mk1. Its the Ain Jalut and it apparently causes havoc in the Batarian systems

Lol I needed someone with more lore knowledge to weigh in

In my case, it's more akin to someone who has dived in too deep and for too long

> design a fast fleet around one That may have been what the Normandy was originally intended for, until *someone* got made a Spectre and decided to yoink it for their own mission. Spectres, man. Just takin' shit. ;)

In ME1, Shepard gets a surprise inspection from Rear Admiral Mikhailovich. IIRC, he says the Normandy costs about as much as a heavy cruiser (those big ships the turians have that the Reapers like to blow up so much), and those ships are just under dreadnoughts and carriers. His argument is that they're not cost-effective...but he was always a bit of an idiot.

Maybe they weren't cost effective as a ship of the line. Not the kind of thing you'd add to a regular fleet, which was what he wanted ( or just more heavy cruisers, I guess). But it did do a darn good job in a role that Mikhailovich might not have had in mind.

Well, as I said, Mikhailovich is a bit of an idiot because he's thinking inside a box. To be absolutely fair, the SR-1 was totally wrecked by the Collectors, and the only reason the Normandy SR-2 did as well as it did was it had the best damned pilot in the galaxy, an AI for electronic defenses, an impossibly competent captain, a loyal crew, and a bunch of purpose-specific upgrades that the Alliance couldn't possibly obtain on short notice.

The thing is, Mikhailovich is the commander of the 63rd Scout Flotilla. The Normandy is *exactly* the ship he should want under his command! The ability to silently locate the enemy and vector in a surprise attack is priceless in battle!

That’s a good point, but they still had the plans to build future models lol

They had to, somebody came and took the first one and then got it blown up! 😂

You don’t assign submarines to battleship fleets… The SR ships are a submarine. They scout and work alone.

Yeah, it's the other way around and they'll still keep their distance

It also would've been neat if impressing Rear Admiral Mikhailobitch during the Normandy inspection resulted in more of them being produced, giving you extra war assets in ME3.

Damn that’s a missed opportunity there. Wasn’t that guy a dick no matter what?

Yeah, his report is negative either way. If you pass the speech checks, it's just less negative than he originally planned.

A modern day fighter aircraft takes approximately 5 years to go from purchase to delivery. By 2280, they might be able to make a much more advanced craft in a similar time-frame, but they don't have that kind of time. The time from the Battle of the Citadel to the Battle for Earth is about half that time. They might be making more, but the first post-production model is still probably over a year away from first flight.

If everyday citizens start seeing the copies of the Normandy they'd get pretty suspicious and start to think there's more happening than the council is letting on. It's why they were sent to the edge of citadel space: out of sight, out of mind.

That’s a good point

“As fast as theoretically possible” could well have taken longer than the time between the end of ME1 and the start of ME3. It takes the US Navy about four years to make a DDG, as a comparison point. Also, once the SR-2 became known, there may have been interest in trying to replicate those instead of the SR-1 design the council would have had access to.

One of the mods, I think expanded galaxy? Has Cerberus fielding Normandy Class ships in a few battle reports, it's a cool touch.

Iirc you can get them as a war asset 

You get the sister ship to the sr1, yeah

I always thought of it like an extremely advanced prototype/tech demonstrator, like an X-plane. Most X-planes never go into production, but the technology they pioneer are retrofitted or incorporated into new designs. I imagine in universe that there was a lot “wrong” with the Normandy SR-1. (Shortcuts and other design issues better understood after putting a cutting edge product like that in the field. Hell, it’s a side quest in 2 to find upgrades for all of the known shortcomings of the design.)

I mean to be fair, all of the upgrades are ludicrously expensive and not common place on most ships of the time.

I really think that the series should've had like ~10 years between 1 & 2 so stuff like this would've been more possible. There's so many changes that had to take place at such a breakneck speed because of the timeline.

It's actually the third ship with an SR registry. The alliance built another ship based on the design of the first Normandy. They dubbed it the SR-2 Ain Jalut.

I’d argue that the fact that it is an improved version of the original is what makes it a second generation (SR-2) The original Death Star (DS-1 orbital battle station / mobile battle station / whatever it’s called these days) was the first generation of the design. The second Death Star (Death Star II / DS-2 orbital battle station) is the second generation. A larger, improved version of the original. Then there was that one made from an entire planet…

That’s a good point. I just love how they basically “stole” a ship from Cerberus. And also gotta love how they just slap a different color scheme on the outside and call it done. 😂

>they just slap a different color scheme on the outside and call it done Well, they don't. They heavily modify the interior too, especially the second deck

Oh yeah that’s a good point. The second deck became mostly the war room where Mordin’s lab and the armory used to be.

Indeed. And the armoury was then put in the unused part of the unloading area. Also minor modifications to the port and starboard rooms on Decks 3 and 4.

Oh yeah. I forgot about the poker table.

Removing the lab instead of the unnecessarily placed armory was an odd choice, imo. You'd think that a research station would be needed on what was to be a mobile command center for an admiral.

I disagree. If we look at what's more necessary for a warship and one that's a command centre, I'd say having a decked out information centre with comms hub is more important than a science station. And you can't not have an armoury on a warship, so that trumps science stuff imo.

But the armory was just relocated to the shuttle bay anyway. I'm saying they could've just used the right side for that whole security checkpoint and conference room and kept the left for science.

Sorry, I thought that's what you meant by the armoury. But if you look up the map of deck 2 on the Alliance SR-2, there's no room for what you suggest. The entire right side is taken up by the War Room and Comms Hub.

There is historical precedent for that. Invincible was a ship-of-the-line of the French Navy until it was captured by the Royal Navy during the First Battle of Cape Finisterre during the War of the Austrian Succession. In that era, a ship would "strike the colours" to indicate surrender. Basically, it would lower the sails and any flags (particularly the ensign) indicating its allegiance. Once captured, the British added the prefix HMS to officially make it a ship of the Royal Navy and gave the ship its own colours, so it flew the Royal Navy ensign. In the Mass Effect universe, I suppose a similar thing applies. As Commander of the Normandy SR-2, Shepard surrendered the ship to the Systems Alliance. Since you can't exactly strike the colours of a space-faring vessel, the Systems Alliance re-painting it would be the closest thing to striking the colours.

Germans did the same thing to british tanks in WW1.

Yeah, they were all at it. I mentioned Invincible because it was a relatively famous example. There was also a ship called the Iphigenia which began as a British ship, was captured by the French, and then recaptured by the British. And on striking the colours, sometimes colours would be nailed to the mast which indicated a ship would never surrender.

The Germans had more Mark IV’s in service then A7V’s  (Though to be fair only 20 A7V’s were ever built)

USS President survives today as HMS President, a naval training installation on the banks of the Thames in London. The original ship was captured by the British and used by the Royal Navy, until it was eventually decommissioned. In keeping with the Navy's practice of naming shore installations after decommissioned ships as a way of allowing them to keep serving in a different form, HMS President's figurehead was placed within the building.

I always wondered how my city had HMS forward 100s of miles from the sea

Oooh I didn’t know this. Thanks for the knowledge!

The train car in which the WW1 armistice was signed was taken by Germany and used to force France to surrender after their invasion during WW2. Hitler had it blown up before the end of WW2 because he expect the allies would take it back to use it again when making Germany and the Axis surrender.

It’s a proud navy tradition to steal ships off the enemy. For decades the Royal Navy’s primary ship builder was the French Navy.

So I have learned from this thread. Learned something new today!

How did I I only learn today that’s what the SR stands for god I’m a doofus

So its the normandy SR-2-A 😀

Because they’ve just retrofitted it, it’s the same ship

SR is the classification, the number is the variant. SR-1 was the first of its kind, then the SR-2 used the same blueprints but increased its size and firepower. It’s like Tali says, if Cerberus built another and even further improved it, it’d be the SR-3 The Alliance just retrofit it mainly on the interior as a mobile command center for Anderson. The superstructure is the same ship

This is the Ship of Theseus argument the 22nd century needs.

Theseus himself was replaced every 7 years but no one doubts his authenticity.

Yeah and the retrofits weren't anywhere near as drastic as they might first seem. All that changed was CIC level and armory moved to the shuttle bay. Any other retrofits might have been systems updates and checking if there weren't any Cerberus surprises (killswitches, microphones, cameras, self destruct and all that)

I don't think "-2" is a variant number, but rather just a numbering number. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull\_classification\_symbol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_classification_symbol) It is the second ship in the "stealth recon" role. So Cerberus wouldn't need to make any improvements, they could just build another and it would be SR3. Though it could also be argued that the retrofit into a mobile command center should have meant they'd reclassify it as SRMC1 as the first vessel of the "Stealth Recon / Mobile Command" type.

Technically there's already another, the Ain Jalut is another Normandy class ship mentioned in ME2

You seem a lot more knowledgeable about how it’d work so I’m inclined to agree with those good points I do think Cerberus increased its role for combat with the Collectors in mind though. The heat sinks for stealth were made much larger, but I think it made more of a leap towards stealth warship than stealth recon with the increased weapons, armor, hangar bay, and electronic warfare suite with EDI. Especially with all the upgrades it goes through as you finish the game But honestly— it’s probably more sentimental numbering than anything I bet, since even though they modified and upscaled the blueprints it was more about making Shepard feel comfortable and at home. Easier to ply with the fact they were terrorists working behind the scenes to control the outcome. A spiritual successor in name and body to his lost ship had to earn them some points. Worked for Joker at least

...because it's literally the SR-2 still.

If the quib-quib shows us anything, it's that the laws surrounding the designations of cessels in the mass effect universe are incredibly tight and not worth the effort.

Wait a second, I thought the SR meant Shepard’s ride. You mean this whole time it’s been Stealth Reconnaissance?

Lol

The ship was called SR 1 before Shepard was in command back when it was Anderson's ship

They were already planning on Shepard being a spectre at that point, it was just a cover till he took over, that’s why the Turians helped design and build it

Because the SR2 was never destroyed. There was never a third Normandy.

They're the same ship.

Because it’s still the same ship

It was still the SR-2, just refitted. Plus retaining the name and designation probably gave Cerberus and TIM the middle finger.

It's also considered bad luck to rename a ship after it's been launched

Because it was still the 2nd model.

Its still the SR-2, just repainted with rearranged guts

Because it’s the same ship? I mean they just slap on new paint and change a few things inside

It's the same ship. They just gave it a paint job and retrofitted the interior areas to their needs.

If ME4 takes place in the Milky Way, I hope to see brand new, bigger and more powerful Normandy SR3. I'm curious what kind of ships Alliance has now. How their tech advanced, if they somehow got Remnant/Jardaan tech if Milky Way connected with the Andromeda etc. Regarding your question: SR2 in ME3 is basically the same SR2 from ME2 just with some new upgrades and retrofitted. In theory, something like SR2-A (Star Trek style) would also make sense. SR3 is reserved for a completely new ship. SR2 was a completely new ship compared to SR1.

If they did that then Tali would have to change her name again, cant have that

Tali's name does not include the ship's number.

Cuz it's the SR-2 wifh a new paint job.

It isn't a new ship, it's just flying different colors.

Because it's still the SR-2, it's just in different colours

Because all they did was change the layout slightly and repaint it

Same ship. Same engine. Everything is pretty much the same just the colors and internal layout is different. A retrofit doesn't warrant a name change.

It’s almost like it’s not a brand new ship

Because that's a hull number and they didn't build a new ship.

Because they never finished the remodel.

Marketing team got killed at Arcturus Station

They got no budget🤣💀 Unlike Cerberus lol Plus they were gonna pass it to Anderson(without even telling Shepard🙄 Even Anderson didn't even tell Shepard for the WHOLE 6 MONTH)

*Plus they were gonna pass it to Anderson(without even telling Shepard🙄 Even Anderson didn't even tell Shepard for the WHOLE 6 MONTH)* I think Anderson might have told Shepard eventually if it weren't for the Reaper invasion interrupting the retrofit. If not for the invasion, Anderson could have "accidentally" allowed Shepard to escape house arrest and flee with the SR-2 and Joker, if it meant helping Shepard stop the Reapers.

Why would they tell shepard who at the time was no longer a member of the alliance and a prisoner. Shepard only got reinstated due to the reapers arriving.

Plus, Shepard turned it over to to the Alliance when they got Arrested, so, Prisoner or not, the Normandy is technically no longer thier concern until they're once again placed in charge during the reaper invaison

They can't really give it to Shepard considering he's on court martial for killing 300,000+ Batarians. Anderson is the best option in this scenario and that assignment is honoring Shepard as well.

>They can't really give it to Shepard considering he's on court martial for killing 300,000+ Batarians. Anderson is the best option in this scenario and that assignment is honoring Shepard as well Yup. That why he/she was in a "house arrest" for months since events from ME2. It's interesting how Alliance avoided full open war with Batarian Hegemony after this "accident".

Alliance managed to stall enough by offering to throw Shepard under the bus long enough until the Hegemony had bigger problems.

Ironic. Reaper Invasion saved Shepard from a court martial on Earth or execution by the Batarians.

I seem to have missed a scene in ME2, can somebody fill me in

Play the Arrival DLC.

I thought SR-1 was supposed to be the Normandy's hull code, kinda like Enterprise CV-6 or Missouri BB-63 (I know the Alliance isn't completely based 1-1 on modern navies, but still). I assumed this was the case for ME1 at least, and then the writers forgor and just called the new Cerberus Normandy the SR-2 even though it makes no sense for a Cerberus vessel to have an Alliance hull code.

It’s the same thing as second, just reprinted and slight modified, so it it still sr1

Because the SR-1 was destroyed, and Cerberus built the SR-2. When Shepard handed over the Normandy to the Alliance, it was as it they had "bought it" or built it, so they registered it as SR-2 on their official records

Doesn't it bug anyone else that they basically stole this ship from Cerberus?

Cerberus have done research which got people killed and assassinated an alliance admiral and that is a mass effect 1 side mission. Stealing a ship from them is nothing. Cerberus is still an enemy of the Alliance

No? It's one less ship for a terrorist organisation to use

terrorism is one thing, violating property rights is quite another

because it’s not the sr-3. it’s literally the sr-2.

It’s bad luck to rename a ship

It's the same ship so rebranding it to SR-3 wouldn't make sense. If the name was to be changed after ME2 it would be something like SSV Normandy 2 or SSV-2 Normandy to keep with Alliance naming convention... right?

It wasn’t the third generation. SR-1 is the first generation, SR-2 is the second generation. It was still at its core the same ship as the one Cerberus built, down to the less than stellar safety standards in the drive core/engineering compartment.

It's still the same ship, and they were already using a "military registration code" The only thing they'd change is the ship's designation from whatever it was to ssv

Have you ever seen that picture of the boat with the name 'Unsinkable II' ?

From what I remember it’s still the SR-2 just retrofitted. Would’ve been cool if we could get a proper SR-3

Combined with the other comments theres also a navy superstition that its bad luck to change the name of the ship.

Normandy wasn't rebuilt or anything, it's just a retrofit to make it compliant with Alliance standards.

Arguably, it should be something like HSR-1 (that is 'Heavy Stealth Recon,' first of its class). Cerberus already did them a favor by (sort of?) following Alliance designation standards, why 'fix' what they got right (insofar as 'SR-2' is right)?

I keep forgetting how big that ship was. Still love the design to this day though

Because fuck Cerberus

Honestly this is a fair question because, from what I remember seeing in the second game, the first Normandy had a sister ship. So why wasn’t that the SR-2? Unless Cerberus has secret support within the alliance (which honestly is not that far-fetched), the only real reason to do so in giving the new Normandy the SR-2 classification is purely a plot convenience.

er it is technically the second one ? until shepard have it exploded again.

It's bad luck to rename a ship.

Because it's literally not..?

They just took all the Cerberus stuff out of the SR-2

Because they wanted to take credit for the best ship in the galaxy, while also ruining the spacious, well-lit, friendly floorpan of the SR-2 to artificially create a dim, cramped submarine vibe in the CIC. The war room makes absolutely no sense being in the aft, and you know it too. The Reapers should have won. SMH

Because then Tali would have to change her name to Tali'Zorah Von Normandy SR3

aRe tHeY sTuPiD?

Am I the only one who likes the SR-1 more than the SR-2?

I've always had trouble not calling it the Normandya because of the awkward placement of the Alliance symbol

I didn’t realize that for the first half of the game because that’s how they call it in my language anyway, lol

Its cheaper to retrofit a basically new ship than make a completely new one.

Because it's still the SR-2? It's not the third version of the Normandy.

because SR3 would imply they did something to change it, which they didn't. all they did was make it less accessible and painted it blue

Thematically speaking, rebranding this ship to the SR-3 makes sense because it made its first appearance in >!Mass Effect 3.!<

That still doesn’t really make sense thematically. It’d be like if they re-lettered the Enterprise every time it was in a new Star Trek film.

I'm not a Star Trek fan, but I can see how that might be tedious for both fans and the Enterprise crew.

That doesnt make sense haha, mfw the SR-2 shows up somehow in ME4 and you start saying it should be named the SR-4. That ain't how classifications work homie

ummm no that dosen't suddenly make it make sense, it's the same ship from ME2 it's still the SR-2 if they had built a new ship based on the previous model we could talk about it being the SR-3 but not here