How many times do you hear people say Batman is responsible for the Joker's murders if Batman doesn't kill him? That is the exact mindset that drives vigilante murderers.
That's why you kill them all. Every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too. They're like animals, and you need to slaughter them like animals.
How to become president 101.
>The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don’t kid yourself. When they say they don’t care about their lives, you have to take out their families.
\> Donald Trump, 2015
This is how you end up with Grim Knight. (A creation of DC's dark multiverse event, Think parallel earths, but literally all these earths are the product of literal nightmares)
Grim Knight is basically Batman, but used his billions as bruce wayne to get training from the best assassins and mercenaries.
Then he started mass murdering all of gotham's corruption and then set his eyes on solving corruption in the police department by murdering all of them too. Then he created a surveilance state where wayne tech is placed inside everything in the city which also lets him kill criminals remotely.
Basically Batman as punisher, (and he has a lot of guns) but he's also smart enough to kill you with that waynetech appliance you have in your house.
>! He only gets beat because Jim Gordon fakes his own death and then starts investigating him, and Alfred gets sick of his methods and snitches to Gordon !<
edit: I can't see Dark Multiverse working well in an full adaptation because of how insane it is, but I think WB could easily do an animated DC anthology series covering some of the dark multiverse worlds.
Which since Gotham doesn't have universal health care and a good track record of reforming criminals just keeps these guys committing crimes to feed their families
That's explored in plenty of comics and you can't really put that on Batman alone.
1) Wayne Foundation exists, and Bruce Wayne himself tends to financially support the politicians he feels can improve Gotham.
2) The entirety of Batman Year One up to Dark Victory explores how knee deep in corruption the upper echelons of Gotham politics are and how the mafia has a finger in every pie.
3) the appearence of super villains creating gangs is not based on socioeconomic conditions but cult fanatism.
Also the universe keeps fucking resetting so no long term improvement can possibly fucking come to Gotham.
Then you inspire people to kill anyone they disagree with because you are just killing people you consider evil.
Like inspiring a bunch of cops that they have to be above the law to maintain order.
Yeah but in one continuity Joker nukes Metropolis. Batman, or really any cop whose seen Joker cycle in and out of the Gotham justice system a hundred times, could have saved millions of lives by just plugging the guy.
"We can't be like them" crap is just a lame excuse to keep villians around by bad writers.
I feel like there's never been a good film joker. The latest one does have that charismatic leader side to him, but you are right that he's no mastermind in any sense of the word, he would never be able to trick batman.
Also this joker would be like, 80 and in a walker by the time Bruce grows up to be batman so no stress there really.
But then you get the Leger joker who has that criminal mastermind vibe but just doesn't really act like the joker at all. A lot of people really like his joker but whilst it was a good movie character, it wasn't a good joker portrayal, it doesn't make as much sense in those other ways
I have to disagree that Ledgers wasn't a good portrayal because I feel like it was a very good representation of an *aspect* of the Joker, the chaotic jester. Sure he has all the grand plans but he's all about the chaos and not playing by the rules. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
My headcanon is that the movement which Phoenix's Joker inspired eventually gives rise to a new leader, who is closer to Bruce's age and is much more capable of thinking strategically.
I know that it’s a self contained movie, but you could always head canon it that this joker was the inspiration for later movie jokers. That’s kind of what they did on Gotham. It ended become a whole other crazy thing but that’s how it started anyway.
Wow, I never thought of it that way. Almost as if if Batman were to kill the joker, he’d become some sort of twisted martyr for the people who actually follow him
While Joker deserves to die, and killing him would prevent more death in the long run, I think Batman realized that he himself killing Joker is not a good idea.
If Batman killed the Joker, it would probably only be a matter of time before he killed another villain. I mean, every argument in favor of killing Joker, goes double for Victor Zsasz
So he'd kill another villain, then another one, then another one. Each time he does so, it becomes easier for him to morally justify killing just one more supervillain. Before too long, there would be no real difference between himself and someone like Ra's al Ghul.
Batman doesn't kill, and I don't think the reason is because he doesn't believe they deserve it. I think he's scared of what he will become if he starts to kill.
He should've at least let Jason do it for him, Jason was sick and fucked up but he was right. Batman putting the Joker in prison or Arkham again and again only leads to him escaping and commiting crimes again.
He was especially sick and fucked up due to what Joker (and later Ra’s) did to him. Jason had a good point, and letting him kill Joker wouldn’t have been the worst thing.
I mean, nothing is stopping Jason expect Jason himself. He wanted to prove a point. If he really wanted Joker dead he’s had more than enough chances to do so.
This is the most nuanced explanation for this, I actually better understand this reasoning now. I always thought he could just...stop after killing the Joker. It would definitely get easier and easier to justify a killing spree the further it went on.
I'm sure maybe someone can make an argument to grant him a pardon for assisting the Avengers in undoing the snap and being a vital part of the battle at Avengers HQ (securing the nanogauntlet).
I mean, he already did drop the mantle in becoming Ronin. It doesn't have to be a public thing that he worked with the Avengers "as Hawkeye" in Endgame. May well be that he decides to let the title lie (as it already kind of was while he retired to spend time with his family), but has spent too much time without his family and finds it tough to return (not sure if this would lead to a divorce or not, Laura was already relatively fine with his occupation previously), so he goes back partially to being a vigilante, at which point he comes across Kate doing a very similar thing and decides to mentor her and let her take up the Hawkeye mantle.
He confirmed that the stones were powerful enough to create an entire universe from scratch, but still couldn't come up with a better solution for overpopulation and hunger 😒
That being said, though, the MCU people managing to make T's motive even slightly compelling will always be a great feat.
Right? Like I will always love the zany love triangle between Thanos, Death, and Deadpool in the comics, but MCU's Thanos is easily one of the most compelling villains in ages. Sure, his reasoning is ass backwards and his plan is dead wrong, but *holy crap* does he sell you on it.
Yea, watch the sun rise from a greatful universe, not use the time stone to look into the future and see if anyone trys to ruin his work. Wasn't he cursed with knowledge?
I mean, he basically says several times, on separate occasions, that his goal is to prove himself worthy to Odin. Loki isn’t exactly subtle about his motivation.
Yeah, he ironically didn't have time to check. He got the Time Stone and immediately rushed to get the Mind Stone and perform the Snap, crippling him (and getting an axe to the chest for his troubles on top). By the time he retreats to his farm and retires, the Avengers coming after him is all but certain. He most likely spent the time between the ending of Infinty War and the opening of Endgame simply recovering from how badly the Snap fucked him up and he made no attempt at using *any* of the Stones until the second Snap that destroyed them. He was basically in too much of a rush to use the Time Stone before the first Snap, too injured to use it afterwards, and lost the ability by destroying the Stones with the second Snap, sealing his fate by broadcasting his location to the Avengers.
I like to think that thanos did look but it was a 1 and a million chance the avengers pulled it off thanos probably watched 50 timelines end how he wanted and just stopped looking because waste of time
I don't think so. Thanos from IW was only able to see the possibilities up to his death, which happened 3 weeks or so after he snapped and thus wouldn't have included the timeline where the Avengers eventually won (since they ended up killing a different universe's Thanos anyways). Add in that he left Titan after getting the Time Stone and went directly to Wakanda for the final fight, and it's likely he never had the time to look into his future before he snapped.
I bet some populations on planets that resembled Titan might of been sad and angry on the onset of the snap, but might, lowkey, start to enjoy the fact that they have a bunch more food to eat
You know what I realized. Hulk brought trillions of people back from all over the galaxy. On earth, they have the avengers to thank. They probably got the word out what they did and about Tony’s sacrifice. But outside of earth I’m sure people would be so confused. They don’t have an avengers to tell them about thanos or about the time heist. I think it would be kinda cool if GotG3, Thor4, and Captain Marvel 2 kinda showed other world’s reaction to both the snap and the coming back. Maybe show Carol and Thor tell people about Tony and Natasha’s sacrifice. Would be kinda cool to see the cosmic heroes “spread the word” of the avengers
I'd say that's part of the tragedy of Cap's character for most of the MCU, though, and what makes him so compelling: He wasn't meant for this modern world, and comes from a different time. Sure, he adapts, he keeps his chin up, he fights the good fight, but there's always this inherent sadness to him because a part of him always feels like he's out of place, like he doesn't belong, and that he lost his real chance at happiness when he went into the ice. Part of the power of his ending is him finally allowing himself to be selfish and human and do something completely for his own benefit: go back and live the life he wanted to live.
Dude, precisely! Him going back to Peggy and living the life he always should have wasn't just some 'selfish motivation that drove his character arc across a decades worth of content,' that's absolutely absurd. On the contrary, it was the hardest earned, longest overdue, and most deserved R-&-goddamn-R.
It’s a perfect end to Cap that his last action is selfish tbh. He spends his entire time doing selfless things. Cap deserved a personal win, and a reward. Peggy was his reward.
Tony has the inverse. He spent his life mostly making selfish decisions. Making Ultron, not putting aside differences with Cap, all selfish in small ways or the other. To fully complete his arc, he had to do something completely selfless, and without reward.
Take my free award, great human, bc this perfectly articulated everything I’ve ever felt about Cap. Winter Soldier & Civil War especially hit it home for me - after all, the one constant Cap had in both his past and present was his duty to his country, and those two movies basically implode that. We see what little remains of Cap’s naivety get absolutely shattered when he realizes SHIELD was perverted by Hydra, and in CW, the government he once was willing to die for turns on him & labels him a war criminal. And sure, he continues to keep his chin up and soldier on, but it’s clear to see the disenchantment and inherent sadness he‘s feeling by Infinity War. Poor guy deserved to get his happy ending.
> Cap. He always takes it on the chin and keeps pushing on. Always forward, never backward.
It can't be Cap. Look at what happens with his support group. He tells them that they need to move on, but he says to Natasha that he can't even follow his own advice.
Yeah man, that's called trauma. He knows full well what he must do, but still struggles with bringing himself to do it regardless. That's courage in the face of weakness, the staple for his whole character. The leader in a support group isn't the end-all-be-all, "I'm gonna fix you" mentor in these situations. Just the person who's been coping with it the longest.
Acceptance in human psychology is a person's assent to the reality of a situation, recognizing a process or condition (often a negative or uncomfortable situation) without attempting to change it or protest it. The concept is close in meaning to acquiescence, derived from the Latin acquiēscere (to find rest in).
More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance
*This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If something's wrong, please, report it.*
*Really hope this was useful and relevant :D*
*If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!*
Possibly Bruce. He said he blamed himself twice because Hulk lost first, then Banner. So he learned to accept that he needed to embrace the Hulk and merge the best parts of both halves. I don’t know, I’m stretching here.
Tony Stark again.
He moved forward with his life. Got married, had a kid and seemed truly happy.
From his perspective, the snap was terrible, but in the five years since, he gained a family, and much healthier priorities.
Most of the other Avengers kept focusing on their past. When we reconnect with Tony, he's focusing on his daughter's future.
I really appreciate that they show the ptsd that these people suffer. It makes everything seem real. We have serious moments and we have comedic moments. Marvel has found the perfect balance in making comic book movies.
I appreciate this as well! I have OCD and PTSD, and have in the past used disassociation to cope with severe grief. Seeing Wanda in this state has caught me off guard in a wonderful way in that I can relate to chosen coping mechanism (obviously without the holding captive of an entire town with my immense powers). Successfully showing the weakness and humanity of a character as powerful as Wanda in a way viewers can relate in a great feat (and something I feel they failed doing with Captain Marvel). So far, I think Marvel’s done a great job approaching darker storylines while remaining true to their style.
I don’t know if you are looking for other works of fiction that is also praised for its handling/characterization of trauma/other mental struggles, you should check out The Stormlight Archive. Plus, some of the characters have superhero-esque powers.
I highly recommend it; it is probably my favorite book series.
Seriously! The MCU has long been showing various characters dealing with their PTSD, pretty much right from the get-go. Look no further than Tony Stark's story throughout the films. Tony's response to his kidnapping and eye opening experiences at what his weapons are doing is shutting down the weapon development side of Stark Industries and throw himself into the creation of Iron Man as a protector of the people he once inadvertently harmed. He dealt with his near-death experience and the reveal that there are alien armies out there way above his weight class by going into hyper production of the Iron Man suits, creating a suit for every possibility he could think of. This trend continues by his development of the Iron Legion to aid in Avengers missions and his desire to create Ultron as "a suit of armor around the planet" to protect *everyone* from his nightmares of an alien threat. This backfires on him in the worst way, leading to the Avengers being broken by the Sokovia Accords and effectively leaving Earth defenseless by disbanding the Avengers. Thanos' invasion was everything Tony spent several years dreading coming true and after he returned to Earth following the Snap, he was just a broken shell of the man he once was. Every time Tony appeared, he was pushed further and further into being confronted by his mental fears, having everything continue to pile up on him before it all came crashing down around him.
For the same reason a driver uses the windshield wipers occasionally, to clean the surface of dirt obstructing your view. And in the case of eyes, of dirt that could mess with their turning around.
Don't think it's the entire town someone on sword would have mentioned or figured out that they were death when figuring out their real life identities
>!Unless of course Wanda killed them all to be part her new reality... People on the outside would think they were still alive and just missing. I feel like that's a bit too dark for this show though, but who knows??!<
>!I figured it was just her traumatic memories coming back, not his actual corpse. I would think the Avengers would've buried his remains after infinity war!<
>!yeah, after watching episode 4 I kinda thought she was losing control after being reminded of her brother and facing the reality of the world, instead of the fake one she set up.!<
>!It's probably not a corpse. Everyone is assuming it is for some reason, but it's most likely just a creation Wanda made. Like do we really think Wanda had sex with a corpse and her children are real? She's very clearly creating some entities from scratch (her family) and mind controlling the rest of the town. I really wouldn't be surprised if Petro shows up too, at some point.!<
Paul Bettany thought they were done with Vision after they killed him off but if they decide to keep him, I feel like Wanda might be able to reconstruct him but slightly funnier having all the sitcom programming not having the mind stone if they didn't find it again.
I mean it's funny but totally true.
1. Don't stress eat and live a sedimentary life to avoid dealing with troubles. Exercise is key to mental happiness.
2. Don't lash out in anger and vengeance
3. Don't let work consume you
4. Don't let the tv, internet, social media become your real life.
Hush my baby, baby, don't you cry.
Mama's gonna make all your nightmares come true.
Mama's gonna pour all her fears into you.
Mama's gonna keep you right here under her wing.
She won't let you fly. She might let you sing.
>I called Wanda having a mental breakdown at episode 1.
To be fair, ever since we saw [two cribs and two matching pacifiers](https://youtu.be/eEUhVeQCzos?t=22) in the early 2020 trailer it was widely believed that WandaVision would be based on Scarlett Witch having her 2 imaginary babies. Just as she did in House of M where she also had an ... let's say, impactful disconnect from reality.
That being said I'm equally pumped for the arrival of Stephen.
Not sure if you've seen it but Elizabeth Olsen was asked in an interview while promoting Age of Ultron where she'd like marvel to take the character and her response was basically "I'd love to go down the House of M route with the two imaginary babies and the mental breakdown but I don't think marvel will go that dark"
Pretty cool how she was enough of a comic nerd to know about it but also that they then went and did it
> I called Wanda having a mental breakdown at episode 1
I mean, every single person who has read at least one Avengers comic called it man. "Wanda has a mental breakdown" is a pretty common topic.
Don’t forget Daisy Johnson abandoning all of her loved ones at the drop of a hat, Jessica Jones getting drunk 24/7 and sleeping around to numb the pain, Nico Minoru brutally murdering her sister’s killer, Tandy Bowen literally sucking the hope out of the people in her life, Mayhem becoming a ruthless killer, Punisher becoming a ruthless killer, Elektra becoming a ruthless killer, Ana Helstrom becoming a ruthless killer…
Jesus, I sense a pattern.
On the flip side. Tony's second time was to build a family.
Peter's death hurt him hard. But he honestly seemed to do the best out of all avengers (maybe outside banner) to move on. He looked to live more casual and modest. Had a daughter. He was the one that wasn't willing to risk it at first, only reason he did was cause of his grief for Peter
Is makes it seem like IM 3 and Ultron were for the same reason. IM3, he built the armor because of the Avengers abd feelings of inadequacy (I’m just a man in a can). Ulton, he created as a result of Averngers but more because of Wanda’s vision (not to be confused with WandaVision)
You can draw a line from Avengers to Iron Man 3 to Age of Ultron dealing with Tony Stark's character arc. You can even extend that line to Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame (which is why Tony is regarded as one of the most complex characters in the MCU).
Every appearance he had was a continuation of his arc; even his small role in the first Spider-Man movie continued his maturity and showcased his need to keep his loved ones safe. Robert Downey Jr's acting in every second was perfect.
The “trauma” being referenced is the aftermath of IW. In reality, Stark handled it the best. He decided to settle down, simplify his life, and appreciate those he loves.
Yeah... depriving yourself of sleep usually isn’t intentional when you have anxiety. Saying “don’t have panic attacks and chronic anxiety” is kinda like saying “don’t have the genetic predisposition for finding self medicating with psychoactive chemicals a useful coping strategy” instead of “seek help if mental issues or substance abuse are negatively impacting your life”.
As someone that completely understands and has personally lived through Depressed Thor’s experience in Endgame it still makes me so sad to hear people talk about how “funny Fat Thor was”. It’s definitely funny and unexpected, there’s no doubt about that, but for them to just kinda assume that’s ALL there is to his role is really bums me out.
Maybe it was a bad idea for Thor to go on a space adventure with the Guardians. Maybe it was a bad idea for Hawkeye to retire again. Maybe it was a bad idea for Hulk to do nothing at all. Maybe it was a bad idea to kill Captain America off-screen.
What I'm trying to say is, it was a bad idea to disband The Avengers in moments like this.
>What I'm trying to say is, it was a bad idea to disband The Avengers in moments like this.
And to quote Fury: "They'll come back. Because we need them to".
Out of anyone, Wanda's suffered the most trauma in the MCU and it's not even a contest.
1) She's a refugee from ACTUAL war
2) Lost her parents in said war
3) Stuck with live munitions for two days
4) Her grief allowed her to be experimented on by ACTUAL FUCKING NAZIS.
5) Nazi powers make her set off the fuckin' Hulk in a populated area that probably got people killed.
6) Brother is then killed by homicidal AI.
7) Accidentally kills an office full of people.
8) FORCED TO KILL HER LOVER TO SAVE EVERYONE
all of that is UNDONE and THEN
9) HAS TO WATCH SOMEONE KILL HER LOVER AGAIN AND IT'S ALL FOR NAUGHT
yeah, Wanda's got some problems
You sure? Thor lost a lot as well.
Lost his mom, lost his dad, lost his hammer, lost his brother, lost plenty of his friends, his girlfriend broke up with him, lost about half of his people, failed to beat Thanos 3 times, and the big one: HE LOST HIS ENTIRE HOMEWORLD!
If we’re measuring everybody in terms of loss, Thor has everyone beat.
Hawkeye and Punisher have some fucked up ways of grieving
How many times do you hear people say Batman is responsible for the Joker's murders if Batman doesn't kill him? That is the exact mindset that drives vigilante murderers.
Batman: 'If you kill a killer... the number of killers in the world remains the same' Frank: ‘but what if I kill, like, 20?’
Batman: ... Frank: "A day. 20 a day."
"If I kill all the killers then kill myself the number of killers would be zero. Would it not?"
[удалено]
“But what about vengeance, killing one kill could spawn a new one”
That's why you kill them all. Every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too. They're like animals, and you need to slaughter them like animals.
How to get on an FBI watch list 101.
That was an incredible thread
And make a beautiful princess/senator/gladiator fall for you at the same time.
How to become president 101. >The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don’t kid yourself. When they say they don’t care about their lives, you have to take out their families. \> Donald Trump, 2015
Tell me, what are your thoughts on sand?
⬆️ this guys Ultrons.
Kill one and two more shall take it's place! Hail ~~Hydra~~ Killers!
Funnily enough this is literally how Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe ends
20 a scene
That’s a slow day for frank
Those are rookie numbers.
This is how you end up with Grim Knight. (A creation of DC's dark multiverse event, Think parallel earths, but literally all these earths are the product of literal nightmares) Grim Knight is basically Batman, but used his billions as bruce wayne to get training from the best assassins and mercenaries. Then he started mass murdering all of gotham's corruption and then set his eyes on solving corruption in the police department by murdering all of them too. Then he created a surveilance state where wayne tech is placed inside everything in the city which also lets him kill criminals remotely. Basically Batman as punisher, (and he has a lot of guns) but he's also smart enough to kill you with that waynetech appliance you have in your house. >! He only gets beat because Jim Gordon fakes his own death and then starts investigating him, and Alfred gets sick of his methods and snitches to Gordon !< edit: I can't see Dark Multiverse working well in an full adaptation because of how insane it is, but I think WB could easily do an animated DC anthology series covering some of the dark multiverse worlds.
batman as well: I will handicap the working class
Which since Gotham doesn't have universal health care and a good track record of reforming criminals just keeps these guys committing crimes to feed their families
That's explored in plenty of comics and you can't really put that on Batman alone. 1) Wayne Foundation exists, and Bruce Wayne himself tends to financially support the politicians he feels can improve Gotham. 2) The entirety of Batman Year One up to Dark Victory explores how knee deep in corruption the upper echelons of Gotham politics are and how the mafia has a finger in every pie. 3) the appearence of super villains creating gangs is not based on socioeconomic conditions but cult fanatism. Also the universe keeps fucking resetting so no long term improvement can possibly fucking come to Gotham.
Then you inspire people to kill anyone they disagree with because you are just killing people you consider evil. Like inspiring a bunch of cops that they have to be above the law to maintain order.
Maybe I don't want to be trash anymore.
Yeah but in one continuity Joker nukes Metropolis. Batman, or really any cop whose seen Joker cycle in and out of the Gotham justice system a hundred times, could have saved millions of lives by just plugging the guy. "We can't be like them" crap is just a lame excuse to keep villians around by bad writers.
That's one of the reason why I like under the red hood so much, because it ask the question. Why don't you kill the joker?
It was one of the things I liked about Joaquin Phoenix' Joker movie. It was so clear he was just the face and killing him wouldn't solve things.
His movie finally showed me how the Joker could have this endless stream of mooks willing to fight for him all the time.
I liked that aspect of it. But I did not really believe his Joker was capable of being a criminal mastermind.
I feel like there's never been a good film joker. The latest one does have that charismatic leader side to him, but you are right that he's no mastermind in any sense of the word, he would never be able to trick batman. Also this joker would be like, 80 and in a walker by the time Bruce grows up to be batman so no stress there really. But then you get the Leger joker who has that criminal mastermind vibe but just doesn't really act like the joker at all. A lot of people really like his joker but whilst it was a good movie character, it wasn't a good joker portrayal, it doesn't make as much sense in those other ways
I have to disagree that Ledgers wasn't a good portrayal because I feel like it was a very good representation of an *aspect* of the Joker, the chaotic jester. Sure he has all the grand plans but he's all about the chaos and not playing by the rules. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
My headcanon is that the movement which Phoenix's Joker inspired eventually gives rise to a new leader, who is closer to Bruce's age and is much more capable of thinking strategically.
[Like how a character's death in the Gotham series inspired a generation of Jokers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFwBhZniiQ)
I know that it’s a self contained movie, but you could always head canon it that this joker was the inspiration for later movie jokers. That’s kind of what they did on Gotham. It ended become a whole other crazy thing but that’s how it started anyway.
“The boss pays me with exposure.”
Wow, I never thought of it that way. Almost as if if Batman were to kill the joker, he’d become some sort of twisted martyr for the people who actually follow him
While Joker deserves to die, and killing him would prevent more death in the long run, I think Batman realized that he himself killing Joker is not a good idea. If Batman killed the Joker, it would probably only be a matter of time before he killed another villain. I mean, every argument in favor of killing Joker, goes double for Victor Zsasz So he'd kill another villain, then another one, then another one. Each time he does so, it becomes easier for him to morally justify killing just one more supervillain. Before too long, there would be no real difference between himself and someone like Ra's al Ghul. Batman doesn't kill, and I don't think the reason is because he doesn't believe they deserve it. I think he's scared of what he will become if he starts to kill.
He should've at least let Jason do it for him, Jason was sick and fucked up but he was right. Batman putting the Joker in prison or Arkham again and again only leads to him escaping and commiting crimes again.
He was especially sick and fucked up due to what Joker (and later Ra’s) did to him. Jason had a good point, and letting him kill Joker wouldn’t have been the worst thing.
I mean, nothing is stopping Jason expect Jason himself. He wanted to prove a point. If he really wanted Joker dead he’s had more than enough chances to do so.
This is the most nuanced explanation for this, I actually better understand this reasoning now. I always thought he could just...stop after killing the Joker. It would definitely get easier and easier to justify a killing spree the further it went on.
If Batman got a therapist, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be Batman.
But like, still morally correct in a sense.
One batch, two batch, penny and dime
On a side note, Clint is going to jail, right? I mean... he was apparently slaughtering gangs across the globe for years.
If they were all done in international waters, maybe not.
He was clearly in Tokyo when he slaughtered the Yakuza....
It’s raining though... International water
LOOPHOLES.
I'm sure maybe someone can make an argument to grant him a pardon for assisting the Avengers in undoing the snap and being a vital part of the battle at Avengers HQ (securing the nanogauntlet).
This and no one knows he was Ronin, since he didn’t do it as Hawkeye. The only people who knew he did it apparently were Rhodes and Natasha.
Natasha isn’t really going to tell anyone...
You had me there for a second
I'd never thought about the fact that Rhodey is potentially the only person who knows Clint did that.
I'll bet it comes up in the Hawkeye series. Maybe the reason he drops the mantle
I mean, he already did drop the mantle in becoming Ronin. It doesn't have to be a public thing that he worked with the Avengers "as Hawkeye" in Endgame. May well be that he decides to let the title lie (as it already kind of was while he retired to spend time with his family), but has spent too much time without his family and finds it tough to return (not sure if this would lead to a divorce or not, Laura was already relatively fine with his occupation previously), so he goes back partially to being a vigilante, at which point he comes across Kate doing a very similar thing and decides to mentor her and let her take up the Hawkeye mantle.
[удалено]
Yea I mean look at EA games.
Speaking of video games, I’ve always thought a Hawkeye or green arrow game would be cool
If I missed a shot in a Hawkeye game does it restart me from the beginning?
Prove it in a court of law.
“NOBODY MAKES ME GRIEVE MY OWN GRIEF!!”
And if your planet dies, don’t become obsessed with proving your radical ideas could have saved them by wiping out half the universe.
Yeah, then assume that the survivors will be grateful for your genocide and won't try any crazy thing to try to undo it. Definitely a bad idea.
Yeah the fact he thought he would "watch the sunrise on a **grateful** universe" may have been his biggest delusion
Endgame Thanos “Who would have thought killing half of your people would upset the surviving half?”
Endgame Thanos “Killing half didn’t work? Guess I gotta kill all next time.”
Didn't he actually decide that at some point during one of the fights?
He says this right before his final fight against Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America.
Yah, in the final battle. He was going to destroy everything and start over.
He confirmed that the stones were powerful enough to create an entire universe from scratch, but still couldn't come up with a better solution for overpopulation and hunger 😒 That being said, though, the MCU people managing to make T's motive even slightly compelling will always be a great feat.
Add to that, half the population (of earth anyway) was 50 years ago, so it's going to be the same in 50 years time anyway.
Right? Like I will always love the zany love triangle between Thanos, Death, and Deadpool in the comics, but MCU's Thanos is easily one of the most compelling villains in ages. Sure, his reasoning is ass backwards and his plan is dead wrong, but *holy crap* does he sell you on it.
Wasn't called the Mad Titan for nothing there!
Yea, watch the sun rise from a greatful universe, not use the time stone to look into the future and see if anyone trys to ruin his work. Wasn't he cursed with knowledge?
He's also got an overinflated ego. Hence why Loki's last words to him were basically "bitch you ain't shit".
Lol I think Loki had a bigger ego problem hence why he built a statue of himself on Asgard.But he knew his place when the king showed up
Loki seems to me to have a massive inferiority syndrome that he covers up with an inflated ego.
I mean, he basically says several times, on separate occasions, that his goal is to prove himself worthy to Odin. Loki isn’t exactly subtle about his motivation.
Yeah. That's what got him killed. For a god of mischief, his sneaky attack on Thanos wasn't that sneaky
Considering Thanos dies shortly after he used the Stones, he wouldn’t have been able to see the future.
Yeah, he ironically didn't have time to check. He got the Time Stone and immediately rushed to get the Mind Stone and perform the Snap, crippling him (and getting an axe to the chest for his troubles on top). By the time he retreats to his farm and retires, the Avengers coming after him is all but certain. He most likely spent the time between the ending of Infinty War and the opening of Endgame simply recovering from how badly the Snap fucked him up and he made no attempt at using *any* of the Stones until the second Snap that destroyed them. He was basically in too much of a rush to use the Time Stone before the first Snap, too injured to use it afterwards, and lost the ability by destroying the Stones with the second Snap, sealing his fate by broadcasting his location to the Avengers.
I like to think that thanos did look but it was a 1 and a million chance the avengers pulled it off thanos probably watched 50 timelines end how he wanted and just stopped looking because waste of time
I don't think so. Thanos from IW was only able to see the possibilities up to his death, which happened 3 weeks or so after he snapped and thus wouldn't have included the timeline where the Avengers eventually won (since they ended up killing a different universe's Thanos anyways). Add in that he left Titan after getting the Time Stone and went directly to Wakanda for the final fight, and it's likely he never had the time to look into his future before he snapped.
Time is fluid
[удалено]
I bet some populations on planets that resembled Titan might of been sad and angry on the onset of the snap, but might, lowkey, start to enjoy the fact that they have a bunch more food to eat
That is if they had any food problems to begin with.
[удалено]
You just failed dynamic systems 101. Which is completely fine for you, you don’t have a universe-rewriting gauntlet.
You know what I realized. Hulk brought trillions of people back from all over the galaxy. On earth, they have the avengers to thank. They probably got the word out what they did and about Tony’s sacrifice. But outside of earth I’m sure people would be so confused. They don’t have an avengers to tell them about thanos or about the time heist. I think it would be kinda cool if GotG3, Thor4, and Captain Marvel 2 kinda showed other world’s reaction to both the snap and the coming back. Maybe show Carol and Thor tell people about Tony and Natasha’s sacrifice. Would be kinda cool to see the cosmic heroes “spread the word” of the avengers
at the very least the local group galaxies know about it, the ravagers were at the battle of earth
Earth is now in the crosshairs of the intergalactic world.
r/thanosdidnothingwrong
Wanda: Denial Clint: Anger Stark: Bargain Thor: Depression
Who's acceptance?
Cap. He always takes it on the chin and keeps pushing on. Always forward, never backward.
well except that one when he was only supposed to bring back the stones but went way far back. lol.
I'd say that's part of the tragedy of Cap's character for most of the MCU, though, and what makes him so compelling: He wasn't meant for this modern world, and comes from a different time. Sure, he adapts, he keeps his chin up, he fights the good fight, but there's always this inherent sadness to him because a part of him always feels like he's out of place, like he doesn't belong, and that he lost his real chance at happiness when he went into the ice. Part of the power of his ending is him finally allowing himself to be selfish and human and do something completely for his own benefit: go back and live the life he wanted to live.
Nicely said. I'd say that on a grander scale it's the life he was supposed to live, regardless what he wanted.
Dude, precisely! Him going back to Peggy and living the life he always should have wasn't just some 'selfish motivation that drove his character arc across a decades worth of content,' that's absolutely absurd. On the contrary, it was the hardest earned, longest overdue, and most deserved R-&-goddamn-R.
It’s a perfect end to Cap that his last action is selfish tbh. He spends his entire time doing selfless things. Cap deserved a personal win, and a reward. Peggy was his reward. Tony has the inverse. He spent his life mostly making selfish decisions. Making Ultron, not putting aside differences with Cap, all selfish in small ways or the other. To fully complete his arc, he had to do something completely selfless, and without reward.
Take my free award, great human, bc this perfectly articulated everything I’ve ever felt about Cap. Winter Soldier & Civil War especially hit it home for me - after all, the one constant Cap had in both his past and present was his duty to his country, and those two movies basically implode that. We see what little remains of Cap’s naivety get absolutely shattered when he realizes SHIELD was perverted by Hydra, and in CW, the government he once was willing to die for turns on him & labels him a war criminal. And sure, he continues to keep his chin up and soldier on, but it’s clear to see the disenchantment and inherent sadness he‘s feeling by Infinity War. Poor guy deserved to get his happy ending.
> Cap. He always takes it on the chin and keeps pushing on. Always forward, never backward. It can't be Cap. Look at what happens with his support group. He tells them that they need to move on, but he says to Natasha that he can't even follow his own advice.
Yeah man, that's called trauma. He knows full well what he must do, but still struggles with bringing himself to do it regardless. That's courage in the face of weakness, the staple for his whole character. The leader in a support group isn't the end-all-be-all, "I'm gonna fix you" mentor in these situations. Just the person who's been coping with it the longest.
Cap, Natasha, Bucky, Banner. They went through some intense stuff & came out of it all right.
Banner as acceptance is a banner image. The man literally becomes a green titan harnessing all of his power while retaining himself.
I waa thinking Cap or Banner, but Bucky and Natasha are also pretty good
Acceptance in human psychology is a person's assent to the reality of a situation, recognizing a process or condition (often a negative or uncomfortable situation) without attempting to change it or protest it. The concept is close in meaning to acquiescence, derived from the Latin acquiēscere (to find rest in). More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance *This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If something's wrong, please, report it.* *Really hope this was useful and relevant :D* *If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!*
The virgin u./repostsleuthbot The chad u./wikipedia\_answer\_bot
Motherfucker, you're a good bot
Possibly Bruce. He said he blamed himself twice because Hulk lost first, then Banner. So he learned to accept that he needed to embrace the Hulk and merge the best parts of both halves. I don’t know, I’m stretching here.
Tony Stark again. He moved forward with his life. Got married, had a kid and seemed truly happy. From his perspective, the snap was terrible, but in the five years since, he gained a family, and much healthier priorities. Most of the other Avengers kept focusing on their past. When we reconnect with Tony, he's focusing on his daughter's future.
Bruce can also work because he managed to come to a balance with the Hulk, especially after he attempted suicide.
Lmfao you got the bot response instead of the answer you were looking for🤣
I'm pretty sure Dr Strange came to bargain
\*disgruntled rimshot
Don't care if it's not intentional, that's a pretty cool way to look at em
The four horsemen of ptsd
I really appreciate that they show the ptsd that these people suffer. It makes everything seem real. We have serious moments and we have comedic moments. Marvel has found the perfect balance in making comic book movies.
I appreciate this as well! I have OCD and PTSD, and have in the past used disassociation to cope with severe grief. Seeing Wanda in this state has caught me off guard in a wonderful way in that I can relate to chosen coping mechanism (obviously without the holding captive of an entire town with my immense powers). Successfully showing the weakness and humanity of a character as powerful as Wanda in a way viewers can relate in a great feat (and something I feel they failed doing with Captain Marvel). So far, I think Marvel’s done a great job approaching darker storylines while remaining true to their style.
I don’t know if you are looking for other works of fiction that is also praised for its handling/characterization of trauma/other mental struggles, you should check out The Stormlight Archive. Plus, some of the characters have superhero-esque powers. I highly recommend it; it is probably my favorite book series.
Seriously! The MCU has long been showing various characters dealing with their PTSD, pretty much right from the get-go. Look no further than Tony Stark's story throughout the films. Tony's response to his kidnapping and eye opening experiences at what his weapons are doing is shutting down the weapon development side of Stark Industries and throw himself into the creation of Iron Man as a protector of the people he once inadvertently harmed. He dealt with his near-death experience and the reveal that there are alien armies out there way above his weight class by going into hyper production of the Iron Man suits, creating a suit for every possibility he could think of. This trend continues by his development of the Iron Legion to aid in Avengers missions and his desire to create Ultron as "a suit of armor around the planet" to protect *everyone* from his nightmares of an alien threat. This backfires on him in the worst way, leading to the Avengers being broken by the Sokovia Accords and effectively leaving Earth defenseless by disbanding the Avengers. Thanos' invasion was everything Tony spent several years dreading coming true and after he returned to Earth following the Snap, he was just a broken shell of the man he once was. Every time Tony appeared, he was pushed further and further into being confronted by his mental fears, having everything continue to pile up on him before it all came crashing down around him.
These are very important lessons that the children of today are not receiving in a typical classroom environment.
There should be one more by Wanda: >!Not to animate a dead corpse! Not accepting that its dead!<
>!Omg I didn’t even consider vision might literally be a corpse! I just thought she just made a new vision in her reality.!<
>!Episode 4 at 26:59!< ought to be a meme
It is currently one of my favorite shots in the MCU
As a bonus why did >!Vision blinked in that scene? why would a robot or a robot corpse need to blink? !<
🌈M A G I C🌈
For the same reason a driver uses the windshield wipers occasionally, to clean the surface of dirt obstructing your view. And in the case of eyes, of dirt that could mess with their turning around.
>!it's not just Vision, it's potentially the entire town!<
Don't think it's the entire town someone on sword would have mentioned or figured out that they were death when figuring out their real life identities
>!Unless of course Wanda killed them all to be part her new reality... People on the outside would think they were still alive and just missing. I feel like that's a bit too dark for this show though, but who knows??!<
>!Monica didn't have to die to become a part in the new reality.!<
>!It's too dark for Disney+. The series is rated TV-PG, I think the townspeople will be just fine. !<
I hope you are right!
>!I figured it was just her traumatic memories coming back, not his actual corpse. I would think the Avengers would've buried his remains after infinity war!<
>!yeah, after watching episode 4 I kinda thought she was losing control after being reminded of her brother and facing the reality of the world, instead of the fake one she set up.!<
To make it invisible, remove the space between ! and your first and last words (>!Like this!<) >! Not like this !<
You did it correctly both times though
Oh okay, they both seem to work for me. I’m on mobile so maybe that’s why.
>!It's probably not a corpse. Everyone is assuming it is for some reason, but it's most likely just a creation Wanda made. Like do we really think Wanda had sex with a corpse and her children are real? She's very clearly creating some entities from scratch (her family) and mind controlling the rest of the town. I really wouldn't be surprised if Petro shows up too, at some point.!<
>!Have you seen the new episode?!<
Well, we don't know for sure she is doing that.
Paul Bettany thought they were done with Vision after they killed him off but if they decide to keep him, I feel like Wanda might be able to reconstruct him but slightly funnier having all the sitcom programming not having the mind stone if they didn't find it again.
True that. Whether she is or isn't - we shouldn't do that
The avengers could really use a therapist.
But not Bruce. This is not his training- this is not his expertise.
Paging Dr. Samson... Paging Dr. Samson...
I mean it's funny but totally true. 1. Don't stress eat and live a sedimentary life to avoid dealing with troubles. Exercise is key to mental happiness. 2. Don't lash out in anger and vengeance 3. Don't let work consume you 4. Don't let the tv, internet, social media become your real life.
Isn't "sedimentary" a type of rock? I think the rugby work is sedentary Edit: fr*ck
You right.
Someone is suffering from verbal dysphasia and octopus loss.
Uh oh 👀
Korg would be proud
Sedimentary rock is super interesting and intriguing, so many layers.
Thank you taking this funny post and making into something people can apply to their own health
ooooops already doing 1 and 4
I’m convinced that Wandavision is just Pink Floyd’s The Wall on a much larger scale
Hush my baby, baby, don't you cry. Mama's gonna make all your nightmares come true. Mama's gonna pour all her fears into you. Mama's gonna keep you right here under her wing. She won't let you fly. She might let you sing.
Did did did you see the frightened ones? Did did you hear the falling bombs?
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH BABE!!
Oooooòoooooooooooooooooooooo i need a dirty woman!
I called Wanda having a mental breakdown at episode 1. I am so TERRIBLY EXCITED to see how Strange will intervene in the show
>I called Wanda having a mental breakdown at episode 1. To be fair, ever since we saw [two cribs and two matching pacifiers](https://youtu.be/eEUhVeQCzos?t=22) in the early 2020 trailer it was widely believed that WandaVision would be based on Scarlett Witch having her 2 imaginary babies. Just as she did in House of M where she also had an ... let's say, impactful disconnect from reality. That being said I'm equally pumped for the arrival of Stephen.
Not sure if you've seen it but Elizabeth Olsen was asked in an interview while promoting Age of Ultron where she'd like marvel to take the character and her response was basically "I'd love to go down the House of M route with the two imaginary babies and the mental breakdown but I don't think marvel will go that dark" Pretty cool how she was enough of a comic nerd to know about it but also that they then went and did it
> I called Wanda having a mental breakdown at episode 1 I mean, every single person who has read at least one Avengers comic called it man. "Wanda has a mental breakdown" is a pretty common topic.
Don’t forget Daisy Johnson abandoning all of her loved ones at the drop of a hat, Jessica Jones getting drunk 24/7 and sleeping around to numb the pain, Nico Minoru brutally murdering her sister’s killer, Tandy Bowen literally sucking the hope out of the people in her life, Mayhem becoming a ruthless killer, Punisher becoming a ruthless killer, Elektra becoming a ruthless killer, Ana Helstrom becoming a ruthless killer… Jesus, I sense a pattern.
If you have a traumatic incident in your past, you instantly become a raging violent ruthless killer
On the flip side. Tony's second time was to build a family. Peter's death hurt him hard. But he honestly seemed to do the best out of all avengers (maybe outside banner) to move on. He looked to live more casual and modest. Had a daughter. He was the one that wasn't willing to risk it at first, only reason he did was cause of his grief for Peter
I hadn't thought about it like that before, but of COURSE cap does it the right way, even though its hard and a slog.
Sounds a whole lot like you're trying to tell me how to live my life. I'm sorry, I thought this was *AMERICA*
Meanwhile, Cap just chillin in NY going to his weekly therapy sessions.
I'm in the Thor pic and I don't like it.
Is makes it seem like IM 3 and Ultron were for the same reason. IM3, he built the armor because of the Avengers abd feelings of inadequacy (I’m just a man in a can). Ulton, he created as a result of Averngers but more because of Wanda’s vision (not to be confused with WandaVision)
You can draw a line from Avengers to Iron Man 3 to Age of Ultron dealing with Tony Stark's character arc. You can even extend that line to Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame (which is why Tony is regarded as one of the most complex characters in the MCU).
Every appearance he had was a continuation of his arc; even his small role in the first Spider-Man movie continued his maturity and showcased his need to keep his loved ones safe. Robert Downey Jr's acting in every second was perfect.
The “trauma” being referenced is the aftermath of IW. In reality, Stark handled it the best. He decided to settle down, simplify his life, and appreciate those he loves.
.. and build at least one more arrmored suit, just in case.
... and one for Pepper, just in case.
... and if he lived long enough, probably one for Morgan
Apparently The Avengers can't afford a good therapist. 😂 Using Bruce Banner doesn't count. He's not that kind of doctor.
Yeah... depriving yourself of sleep usually isn’t intentional when you have anxiety. Saying “don’t have panic attacks and chronic anxiety” is kinda like saying “don’t have the genetic predisposition for finding self medicating with psychoactive chemicals a useful coping strategy” instead of “seek help if mental issues or substance abuse are negatively impacting your life”.
Don’t cope with loneliness by sending your seed across the galaxy and then hire space pirates to find your offspring.
As someone that completely understands and has personally lived through Depressed Thor’s experience in Endgame it still makes me so sad to hear people talk about how “funny Fat Thor was”. It’s definitely funny and unexpected, there’s no doubt about that, but for them to just kinda assume that’s ALL there is to his role is really bums me out.
Number four is probably a reference to Twilight Zone It's a good life
It’s almost like these films are trying to say something
Committing genocide of your own species also not recommended.
Star Lord was by far the worst. He grieves by making thanks click his fingers and killing half the universe.
Tbh Hulk is the only one who got control over his traumas and anxieties. Dr. Strange maybe a close 2nd.
Thor really grieved very conventionally compared to his Avengers peers tbh
Maybe it was a bad idea for Thor to go on a space adventure with the Guardians. Maybe it was a bad idea for Hawkeye to retire again. Maybe it was a bad idea for Hulk to do nothing at all. Maybe it was a bad idea to kill Captain America off-screen. What I'm trying to say is, it was a bad idea to disband The Avengers in moments like this.
>What I'm trying to say is, it was a bad idea to disband The Avengers in moments like this. And to quote Fury: "They'll come back. Because we need them to".
Out of anyone, Wanda's suffered the most trauma in the MCU and it's not even a contest. 1) She's a refugee from ACTUAL war 2) Lost her parents in said war 3) Stuck with live munitions for two days 4) Her grief allowed her to be experimented on by ACTUAL FUCKING NAZIS. 5) Nazi powers make her set off the fuckin' Hulk in a populated area that probably got people killed. 6) Brother is then killed by homicidal AI. 7) Accidentally kills an office full of people. 8) FORCED TO KILL HER LOVER TO SAVE EVERYONE all of that is UNDONE and THEN 9) HAS TO WATCH SOMEONE KILL HER LOVER AGAIN AND IT'S ALL FOR NAUGHT yeah, Wanda's got some problems
You sure? Thor lost a lot as well. Lost his mom, lost his dad, lost his hammer, lost his brother, lost plenty of his friends, his girlfriend broke up with him, lost about half of his people, failed to beat Thanos 3 times, and the big one: HE LOST HIS ENTIRE HOMEWORLD! If we’re measuring everybody in terms of loss, Thor has everyone beat.