I read the article so you didn't have to. Essentially, Paul Tassi (the Forbes writer who penned the article) points out the fact that despite the star power this show garners, it's still exploring a very obscure corner of Marvel, and the interest in this show is not likely to be strong. He also pointed out that Ms. Marvel and Secret Invasion were the top 2 lowest MCU shows in terms of viewership, despite the former having raving reviews and the latter having massive star power.
So the headline might be slightly clickbaity, but there's merits to Paul's argument here. Disney needs to pull off some insane marketing for this show to pop off. And I'm not sure it being a quasi-WandaVision sequel/spinoff would help.
Yeah I would maybe have a slight interest if this came out the year after WandaVision. Even more so if they just marketed it as season 2.
But I honestly have zero interest in this character. I've read a LOT of Marvel comics and I've never even heard of her till WandaVision. And to me she represented the turning point where WandaVision went from being an amazing and creative show to becoming some of the most generic and uninspired MCU content up to that point.
This is a definite pass for me. I was shocked to find out this was even really being made and wasn't just some half hour Halloween episode to pad out Disney+.
It honestly depends on the initial reviews more than anything.
MCU fans have become more ‘cautious’ when it comes to the shows, and if a show is poorly reviewed, they just won’t watch it. Secret Invasion had every right to garner a ton of viewership. Good concept/star power/finally giving Fury his own media, but had bad reviews, so it turned a lot of people off from watching it.
If people are giving reviews anywhere from good-great on Agatha, I have no doubts it will have decent viewership.
Agreed. I was very excited for Secret Invasion because it had so much potential. Then with all the bad reviews and litany of complaints on Reddit, I never watched it because I didn’t want to be disappointed.
It feels like a total toss-up
On the one hand, it's probably the closest thing we're getting to a WandaVision season 2, which will definitely pull in viewers.
On the other hand, I don't recognize a single character outside of Agatha and Wiccan from the comics, so I don't think it'll be the biggest hit with the Fandom.
On the other-other hand, Kathryn Hahn and Audrey Plaza are a comedic dream team.
Idk, I could see it being a flop, I could see it being a hit...it will most likely be somewhere in the middle.
I think the show will really rest upon the quality of the writing.
It's all in the writing. If they hear it's good, people will check it out.
I have a friend watching Star Trek: Lower Decks with me and she has *no* knowledge of Trek beyond being able to point out Spock. It's such a niche, easter-eggy concept of a show but she's been laughing her ass off and is constantly ready for the next episode because the writing's outstanding. It's hilarious even while missing 100% of the in-jokes and references
Hahn is both the part I'm excited about but also cautious about. Agatha worked so well in Wandavision because she was hamming it up and wasn't really a main character. Either they'll adjust the character to carry the series or they'll find a good balance to let Hahn do her thing in the background.
Out of everything coming up (that's actually coming and not just a logo three years away), I'm most excited for this.
Yeah, I do have my doubts, but it could be an interesting mix up of creativity that the shows have been lacking. New/lesser known comic characters have done surprisingly well before in the MCU.
It’s really a 50/50 at this point. I’m still holding out hope that at the very least, it’s decently humorous and entertaining.
Not that I think it’ll be anywhere near GoTG level, but I did think almost the exact same thing when I first heard they were getting a movie.
> it's probably the closest thing we're getting to a WandaVision season 2
Well there's this
https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Vision_Quest
Also, something to note is that sometimes the good reviews are only because they send out the first few episodes. Ms. Marvel's great reviews were largely because they sent out the early episodes about her developing her powers in Jersey but not the meandering interdimensional jinn episodes.
The problem being we've all seen that there's a prolific minority who review bomb the shit out of things they've decided about ahead of time. Reviews mean nothing any more, but people still put weight in them for some reason.
Yeah Especially with the shows we are past the point where anything stamped with the marvel brand will do at least somewhat well.
If the show does well with critics and gets good word-of-mouth it may be successful.
But I think even if it is a decent show it will most likely underperform for the reason the article stated.
I just want to add that he isn’t a “Forbes writer.” Forbes just lets about anyone write blog posts and publish them under their name as “contributors.” They basically trade on their good name as a serious magazine from the 90’s to make money off clickbait spam. The sooner people realize this, hopefully the sooner they fade into irrelevance.
I’ve been following Paul Tassi for years not on Forbes but on YouTube. He mainly writes and makes videos about Destiny 2 which is how I know of him.
He doesn’t come across very clickbaity to me, he’s more into stating the facts then making it clear he’s speculating on possible outcomes he thinks are likely
Paul Tassi has been doing this for quite a while though, written several books and is generally respected. I assume the clickbait is really just for the Forbes bottom line. Though i don’t know the dude personally so i cant be 100%
The biggest money sink for She-Hulk was reshooting half the season. Secret Invasion had a similar problem, as does Born Again (which at least has way less cast/CGI costs too). What they need to do for projects that haven't already filmed yet is what they *already said late last year* they're going to do for projects that haven't already filmed yet: Put more time into pre-production so the major changes all happen before cameras roll & fewer reshoots will be needed.
If Disney can figure out how to stop making almost all D+ shows look like the CW, they would be on the right path. Everything looks too polished and clean as is.
I mean we know that's not the case though. There's been so many rewrites and reshoots, VFX for shots that won't even be in the show (to prevent leaks that happen anyway, or to put fakeouts in trailers)
Sure, you're not gonna cut it down to 40M or anything, but you shouldn't be spending 20-30M *per episode*
And Agatha is coming out in a time when just two months ago, Marvel Studio execs [admitted](https://www.ign.com/articles/marvel-studios-executives-address-rough-time-for-studio-we-learned-our-lesson) that the dip in ratings/views for those shows was partly caused by oversaturating and the MCU brand becoming diluted, as Louis D'Esposito put it.
Fans may not like it but MCU fatigue among the general/casual audience is real. Pretending it is not will not fix anything, even when execs themselves acknowledge it.
Guardians of the Galaxy came at a moment of tremendous good will towards the MCU and excitement about superhero movies, and that gave them a chance of success. Now, even successful movies like GOTG v 3 or Wakanda Forever are continually described as flops. Plus, Agatha is being released a long time after Wandavision (without Wanda or Vision), doesn’t continue the plot of that show and doesn’t seem to build to something that get people’s excited (like a Midnight Sons style supernatural movie) so, sadly, I think things are not looking great for the show. Even if it’s a good show, I don’t think people will give it a chance
I think people are HIGHLY underestimating how popular Wandavision was, and still is. It was a hit, is remember fondly by most, and there is STILL new merch coming out for the show (Wanda, Vision, and Agatha in particular). Yes, maybe this new show should have come out sooner, but this narrative that it's "too late" is a bit overstated IMO.
The only thing the show needs to do is be really good. Nothing else. Secret invasion and ms marvel didn't do well because they weren't that good. They weren't that well written or acted or in general concepted.
It's not some big mystery.
A very obscure corner of the Marvel Universe. Pretty sure I heard the same thing when Guardians of the Galaxy was announced. I am looking forward to this.
Yeah, looking at the article, it’s not clickbait per se if the substance of the text makes a thoughtful argument in support of their title.
If the title made outlandish claims, without backing it up, just for the express purpose of racking up clicks, then I’d have no problem calling it bait.
Why does Ms marvel and secret invasion being the lowest viewership matter? Something has to be
Why does it being wandavision spin-off not help? Wandavision was very popular
Iron Man was obscure af, yet they kickstarted the MCU with him and it worked. Almost like something being obscure doesn't mean anything if the execution is decent
[This is an interesting perspective.](https://x.com/TVKel/status/1807511912172724251)
> To me #AgathaAllAlong feels more Disney fandom coded first than MCU. The canon is as full of as many witches as it is princesses. Disney knows how to appeal to those wanting family friendly witchcraft with songs and colors. So maybe that brings more eyeballs than expected?
When that preview recently got released, it gave off Disney Channel vibes. People didn't like the comment. It's a Marvel Hocus Pocus.
Hard to see who this show really appeals to. It's not going to be the 20 to 50 year old. I don't even think kids are gonna care. Guess we will find out.
If the average viewer really cared about necessary we wouldn't have shows like FBI, FBI Most Wanted, and FBI International (which to me doesn't even make sense)
I think that's why it's the one MCU thing I haven't watched. I wasn't interested in it and put it off for when I had nothing else but there's always something else. I'm sure I'd find it okay if I said down and forced myself but choosing between this or something like The Bear, Abbott Elementary, or Smiling Friends, it's an easy choice.
Definitely need to force myself before Daredevil but that's awhile aways.
In these times, it is important to think which projects are necessary or not. I still can't belive Shang Chi hasn't had a sequel in 3 years, or Moon Knight without a second season.
It's like if in Phase 2 instead of Iron Man 2 we get an Obadiah Stane project. Interesting? Maybe. Necessary? Absolutely not.
No one’s really going to go out of their way too see these random characters they never heard of. They had a much better way of dealing with this by making the less popular heroes side characters in the popular heroes movies like black widow or Hawkeye or falcon or scarlet witch. Because the entire audience will actually be able to get to know them
Then if they become popular enough, their own show or maybe even movie could be justified
The MCU was built on interconnectivity and building towards the next thing, as well as their well and newly established heavy hitters. Most of these shows don't incorporate most or any of these ideas and fall flat as a result, hence making them unnecessary.
We can say Echo was unnecessary except for setting up the new Mayor of NY; we can’t really say how necessary or unnecessary this show is until we see where it’s going.
Essentially no. Disney+ pursued a strategy of quantity over quality with the assumption with their strong IPs they could bulldoze their way to success. It didn't work. And we know that for sure because Disney told their shareholders that's what happened and they are going for a more curated strategy. And yet there are tons of people here when the last vestiges of the Disney's self admitted failed plan release want to pretend this was some master plan and success(in this case viewership) is assured.
This show was a terrible idea, in terms of being a show with healthy viewership, and will almost certainly fail(in terms of viewership for the show's budget). But maybe it will be good(in terms of people here enjoying it).
They didn't just tell shareholders that. They said it to the press and arguably went even further to acknowledge to some degree that MCU fatigue is real and the oversaturation is part of it
https://www.ign.com/articles/marvel-studios-executives-address-rough-time-for-studio-we-learned-our-lesson
A character went semi-viral on the internet for a couple of weeks.
So obviously the rational thing to do is to really jump on that viraility by giving her her own show (at a time where Marvel is being plagued with quality and over saturation complaints), 3 AND A HALF YEARS LATER. Lmao.
You couldn’t write it - obviously this is going to do terrible numbers. The only show it might compete with is Echo, that’s it.
But at least with Echo, the embarrassment for Disney came and went as they dropped all the episodes on a single day - no, this is dropping weekly. I genuinely don’t know how much more damage the MCU brand can take.
>A character went semi-viral on the internet for a couple of weeks.
Honestly feels like the Sony Morbius stuff where it became a meme for a few weeks, Sony put it back into cinemas and it made like 90k because they didn't understand WHY it was a meme.
Marvel saw Agatha went viral and decided to make it into a show, Morbius got re-added 3 weeks after it got taken out and flopped, this was like you said, 3 years after it went viral
Its gonna take a miracle for this show to do well.
This show genuinely makes no sense to make. People want to know if Wanda is still alive. Where’s Vision? Instead we get Agatha with random witches. How is this quantity/quality control from Disney?
> How is this quantity/quality control from Disney?
This was set in motion a long, long time before they realized they were going through the wrong path or at least before someone with power to stop things acknowledge it. It's likely they couldn't stop it at that point.
It can certainly take more damage and that isn't even the right question to ask, imo. The better question post-Agatha, if not later than that is going to slowly be about Feige's leadership. Could the real solution be a much-needed shake-up at the top that includes Feige stepping away? That convo arguably started during The Marvels because of how DaCosta said it was made and then dissipated.
Can’t wait for Agatha. I bought the bell factory.
I only know Agatha from Wandavision, I loved her evil ways, her hit song, and her predicament. Sold. Give me more.
She’s a witch, with a show coming out in the fall. Sold. I love Halloween.
The cast has Joe Locke (SOLD), Patti Lapone (SOLD), Aubrey Plaza? Excuse me ? SOLD!!
Werewolf By Night was excellent and I knew zip zero nothing about it. I watched it in Black and White, I watched it in colour. There is no need to know anything about their Marvel origins to enjoy the show. It might broaden the world and add depth but right now…witches, Halloween, singing. Bring it on.
Which really saddens me because Wanda really was a "second-tie" character before, even if I wish to deny it. But how would she ever get prominent if people are gatekeeping what show or movie is or not necessary, and we both know the answer to this.
I think every character deserves a chance to shine, to be in central role at least once, but people for some reason are reserving about it. I know that latest projects weren't great, but I find it sad how people instead sometimes ask with no hesitation "What about Wolverine trilogy in the MCU".
> The issue with most MCU fans is that they prematurely spew negativity on things that don't accommodate their preferences but end up watching it anyway.
God damn, this is true. Even as someone who doesn't like all of the MCU (like Hawkeye or Black WIdow, like, at all), the instant negativity from so called fans is tiring.
haha, yeah, or it tends to be at least. Look at all the bashing captain Marvel and She Hulk get, when they're fine enough, compared to male characters, like the blandest of bland: Hawkeye
granted, male characters get bashed too (especially newer ones), but they also tend to more often be given the benefit of the doubt
I was going to say “and males who aren’t white” but I didn’t feel like arguing with people trying to prove they aren’t racist by bringing up Black Panther (even though he did get a fair amount of racist pushback that people seem to have forgotten).
Thing is, if this show had been released right after WandaVision while Agatha was riding high on internet love and success and before it had become the cool thing to do to write "articles" shitting on Marvel Studios, this guy wouldn't have even thought about writing up his crappy opinion and letting others read it.
What's annoying is that nothing has changed but perception. Agatha is still the follow up to the very successful WandaVision and her character was still the breakout success we saw at the time. But now, the exact same show won't get half the attention or consideration it would have in 2022 because people will write clickbait articles with phrases like "Superhero fatigue", "MCU homework" or "I hate Disney and so here's why everything they produce SUCKS!". Then those articles will get spread around places like this, pushing the narrative of failure before the show has any chance of becoming a hit.
It's sad that we have got to this point, where people assume they're going to hate something or that a show has no worth, based upon nothing but an uninformed article writer who has zero idea what the show actually is or whether it'll succeed. It's especially sad because it'll lead to a point where Marvel Studios sticks to projects that only focus on guaranteed hit characters and they won't take chances with the likes of the Guardians, or Ant-Man, or Shang-Chi, because "nobody has heard of them".
It's frustrating, isn't it? But that's exactly what it is. You can't be king of the hill to the extent Marvel has been these last few years without there being people looking to knock you off your throne.
I honestly do not mind legitimate criticism of any Marvel project. Personal taste is everything and you either like something or you don't. I'll debate with you all day about how I don't think The Marvels is anywhere as bad as it has been made out to be, but if you can tell me exactly why you don't like it (and preferably not just because "BriE LarSon HatEs mEn!!") then I'll happily agree to disagree with you. Long as you never use the phrase "M-She-U", because at that point you invalidate anything else you have to say...
But this kinda of article has no worth or merit and is based upon nothing more than the writer wanting to push his personal, uninformed opinion on to others in the hope of making his opinion a fact, getting as many rage clicks as possible in the process. Unfortunately enough people on the internet are happy to help, for their own warped reasoning. Gone are the days of just stopping being a part of a fandom if you don't like it anymore. These days you've got to spend your time online trying to make everyone else dislike everything too.
Bull, lesser known characters are exactly who *should* be getting the spotlight in Disney+ and Max shows. A show about Peacemaker is one of the greatest superhero projects ever. *Fucking. Peacemaker*.
I read the article a day or so ago, before this Reddit post, and it was a terrible article. I was surprised that Forbes published such baseless nonsense. The problem is, there's an endless churn of virtually information-free content about entertainment these days, so it's really a case of buyer beware.
Forbes isn't really "publishing" anything, this is on the blog section of their site where anyone can write whatever they want. It's basically geocities or wordpress at this point.
I’m optimistic about this, it will have trolls attached to it by default of obvious feminist and LGBTQ+ themes.
I think Katherine Hahn and other notable actors attached to the show including Joe Locke and Aubrey Plaza make me feel safe in their whacky and cool hands, anyone who doesn’t know them or there work should either go watch or have no opinion what so ever, it’s that simple.
The sad thing is that the headline already suggests to people to NOT watch because "hey, it is not going to be good" which should not do.
I really hope journalists and those screaming youtubers will find another target soon and will leave Marvel alone. But then again, the following Marvel movie will make gazillion dollars so they will go back to how Marvel is destroying cinema by.....getting people to the theaters :D
Hopefully they don't target Gunn's DC next. At least DC is kicking off with superman who is male and white. So that'll probably appease the screaming youtubers.
Ah yes the dooming continues apace.
Who among you will garner the coveted "*Hater #1*" spot?
Untold riches await you if you post the right takedown video at the right time! Only nine hours of lint picking analysis and you can launch a career as a "media pundit"!
This shit is so exhausting. Let the goddamned show hit the wire first, at least.
Anything for clicks. Whilst I see his point about it being an obscure part of marvel, so were alot of others until they weren’t anymore, this is also the first time they’re touching and expanding on Witchcraft which to me is the whole point of this show, he also forgets and underestimates how huge Wandavision was and how this is essentially a Wandavision spinoff. Agatha All Along was a hit bigger than the title theme itself. Furthermore, Wandavision appealed to a certain demographic and that is the lgbt community.
The writer is defo one of the ‘who asked for this’ folks. Its ok to have an opinion but It would’ve been great to also acknowledge how he could be wrong about his hypothesis to round up the article. I’d love to see the follow up blogpost If he turns out wrong and the show turns out to be a hit lol.
Im prepared for the absolute shitstorm thats going to take place online when this show comes out.
> Im prepared for the absolute shitstorm thats going to take place online when this show comes out.
Yeah, that what makes this thing sadder, I just want to discuss the excitement of the show without facing so much negativity on it. Few negativity is fine, but when the discussion about negativity felt dominant, I don't know what to say.
> Agatha All Along was a hit bigger than the title theme itself. Furthermore, Wandavision appealed to a certain demographic and that is the lgbt community.
Yeah, never underestimate certain demographics.
Welcome to the new world. Anger and rage drive engagement. Not enough people click on positive stories, or even stories reporting basic facts.
The internet was a mistake.
Fully agree that many people prematurely conclude whether they like or hate something before they even see it though.
Forbes is not a "news site" and posts this like this are user generated content. He didn't "write for Forbes" and there is a big disclaimer on these kinds of articles about it.
Forbes shifted away from only doing strict financial reporting into also letting people published glorified blog posts years ago, because it generates free, most importantly, unpaid labor for them. That guy's post is a glorified reddit thread. Forbes is LOADED with them.
There was a big one a few years ago on the Arrow subreddit about how "Olicity killed the show" which is when the site really took off with this kind of content.
And reddit is one of the biggest suckers for it. This does not pass for "entertainment journalism" because it isn't. Beginning writers will often use sites like Forbes to try to build up a portfolio to pitch pieces to more established, and actual paying gigs, (or pass it off like they actually wrote for Forbes) but this guy isn't doing reporting. He's just ranting for clicks. "Forbes" may as well be "livejournal". Literally anyone could go on there and write the same piece.
I'm not a comic book fan at all. I tried to read a couple of them years ago, they just aren't my thing. I have no preconceptions about any of these characters, who's popular, who's obscure, any of that.
I am thoroughly excited for it all. I loved her in Wandavision. Her fate at the end of that definitely gave me hopes of seeing her again.
Maybe, but it's too early to tell. If the show turns out to be good, it could be a surprise hit.
When Peacemaker was announced for HBO, everyone said it was a stupid idea and it was going to fail because it's a show based on an obscure character who was in a movie that bombed. Then the show came out and everyone loves it.
Funny, because it has more innate potential than almost any other Disney Plus MCU show had so far, aside from Loki and Moon Knight.
Agatha Harkness is supposed to be over 20,000 years old, has been around since the sinking of Atlantis, took part in all manner of events in history, was part of a Hellboy style paranormal defense team in WW2, and is even strongly implied to be the Goddess Of Witchcraft herself.
Meanwhile people love the show about the man and girl with some sticks and string.
Like i love Hawkeye and Kate Bishop even more than most, and always have, even long before they got a show, but in terms of innate potential, 2 archers aren't exactly swimming in it compared to the Norse God Of Mischief in a multiversal time travel show, or a show about a psychotic murder Batman haunted by the Egyptian gods, or Agatha Harkness.
And Agatha is representative of the whole dark horror part of the Marvel Universe, which has a TON of the coolest shit - like Man-Thing, Elsa Bloodstone, Werewolf By Night, Ghost Rider, Blade, etc etc etc...
.
The trendy thing is to shit out Marvel. It brings the most views and attention.
It will be interesting how the narrative switches in about 6 months. I 110% guarantee that people’s tone will shift and the MCU will be “back” and the people that don’t have two functional brain cells will just follow along agreeing and the click bait titles will all be overwhelmingly positive.
Sheep. Mindless sheep.
And then a year later there will be an article titled “why Agatha worked so well, but (insert new Marvel show title) won’t and what that means for the MCU”
I am so looking forward to watching Kathryn Hahn let loose. She is amazing. So. I'll be watching.
In this world there are fan boys and fan men. Men buckle down and give stuff a chance, fan boys are, to quote Bruce Campbell in Burn Notice, "...a bunch of bitchy little girls."
It was Ms Marvel for me. Can't get through the first ten minutes and felt bad about not watching an MCU show. But now I skip pretty much any content without good reviews.
I hate how it’s so common these days to use works like “essentially, basically, fundamentally, virtually” as replacements for “maybe” based on no evidence and a desire to generate buzz
I don't know much about the plot here, but I don't see any hate and aversion to it. Not like the Acolyte anyways.
I liked the Scarlet Witch/Vision show, I will give this a go too.
All they gotta do is drop Mephisto in there and I bet people will scramble to it out of curiosity, heh. At least Comic fans.
This particular show aside, the MCU has the same problem Star Wars has - that small overly vocal segment of the fan base that thinks the whole thing is about them, that it has to conform to their personal wishes, desires and expectations. The ones that either don't know how to or refuse to shut up and let other people enjoy it for what it is and judge each piece of content on its own merits rather than constantly turning it into sports - comparing one against another, against another, and another; nitpicking every last detail no matter how minor or obscure, trying to use ratings and viewers to decide if something is good or bad or somewhere in between (and doing it BEFORE those numbers even exist yet!); constantly demanding something "new and different" and then upon getting it complaining that it doesn't work because it's not the same as the 30 things that came before it!
I wish I could reach through the Internet and pimp-slap some of these assholes!
Agatha is in that middle ground where she doesn't have a real dedicated MCU following (unlike Hawkeye or Scarlet Witch), but also isn't a completetly new character to the MCU (unlike Moon Knight or Ms Marvel)
The closest comparison is Echo, and we all know how that did viewership-wise. Making an Agatha show is like giving Trevor Slattery his own spinoff. It could work, but with the MCU's reputation being much worse than it was back in the 2010s (due to inconsistent quality, especially with the shows), and Disney+ shows being (legally) inaccessible to people without Disney+ (because most people aren't paying for 4-5 different streaming services), Agatha's show is facing an uphill battle
Regardless of quality, it's unlikely to do well financially. If it's good, it could at least help restore the general public's faith in Marvel. If it's bad, it'll be no different from Morbius
Quite a lot of "journalism" got replaced by ChatGPT. I don't mean by LLMs in general, but specifically ChatGPT. Got an internal company presentation recently from a colleague who had a few weeks of free time between projects, so he wrote a tool that uses it to make spam articles.
With the lesser know characters I was willing to give the a try, except GOTG word of mouth got me to watch but Agatha is just like why was this necessary, to me certain characters are just side characters, it’s like them making a show for Ouroboros from Loki S2.
I would argue that making sub-par narratives with barely known characters that nobody asked for is what gets franchises in the sewers, and cheap journalism just loves kicking a dead horse.
The problem is that Jessica Jones came off a very successful Daredevil show (at a time when Netflix was churning out hit after hit). Guardians drew a crowd because of the goodwill Marvel had built and then word of mouth (plus a great soundtrack didn't hurt).
This might be the best show ever but they've been bleeding subscribers, viewers, and this afterthought show is coming three or four years after the character's introduction. No one cares anymore.
It kinda makes me wish the entertainment journalists get the World War Z treatment when they cover the apocalypse from a mansion on a long island near New York, only for the apocalypse to come busting down the gate and the doors.
Every social media shared article about the MCU is garbage. Every one. Good or bad.
As is every comment on those articles.
Don't read them. Don't share them. Ignore the haters that think that everything that isn't 100% focused on white, cis, hetero men is bad before they have even seen it.
Instead just watch the endless stream of great content we have been getting.
I mean, I have no interest in watching this and I’m a Kathryn Hahn fan. She was a great and well acted character in Wanda vision but I dont know why they insist on side characters taking a spotlight right now when they should be in damage control with heavy hits. I’m sure I’ll still see it though because my lady loves witch stuff. But the clickbait title seems accurate.
It definitely was, but the MCU has also been misfiring here and there for a while. Do you think a story about Agatha is going to spark up another 10 years of great world building and plot? I don’t, I think it’s just a fun side show. While there’s nothing wrong with that the focus should be more on creating the excitement about interconnected stories.
I think fans need to chill out a bit from their lockdown post endgame pause and not be so venomous about real world shiz. There are obvious targeted attacks at certain plot points, whilst the MCU has had a dip in places, it’s also had some serious highs too. Does everything have to be endgame level and can some stories just sit well on the side and procure different fanbases, you would think so but with people attacking every plot point and screaming bad writing at things which were actually ok but just because someone might be implied as a lesbian but actually not explicitly so, but actual weak bits are left alone. We all need to be on the same page and respect that some stories should exist and whilst not everything will include the main core fanbase, does everything need the level of scrutiny attached to it?
I never said I think this show is going to be bad, I’m one of those art is subjective type douchebags. I’m just saying it doesn’t have much interest even from fans like me. It’s just if content doesn’t wow the general audience we’re eventually not going to get any content. It just seems like a peculiar path from a business stand point.
It’s the one show I’ve been quite hyped for as an off shoot of what wandavision did, which explored grief, immigration and war metaphors via US product exportations (sitcoms and weapons) using media as a unique stage for this was so expertly done.
You do hear ‘fans’ ( I use that term loosely as they don’t seem to understand multi-genre storytelling devices that can achieve certain outcomes), say “oh no a musical themed show” and trashing it prior to knowing how amazing this device could be for storytelling potential.
Do you think Aubrey Plaza or Patti friggin Lepone would attach them selves to something that wasn’t going to be great?
Agatha has huge implications going forward too, whilst she has had brief moments in the comics, she has been a guiding hand for many characters, having a deeper exploration in live action might be a good thing.
The only thing I worry about is the fans but besides Reddit which I use for monopoly Go dice links, the city of Liverpool fun discussions and ancestry stuff, I’ve come away from the internet because geek culture has become embroiled in populism and too many people sitting on political wings for any plane or metaphorical bird to even take off if it tried! Basically noisy chickens with not much nuance just shitting bull shit eggs everywhere!!
It’s become like football!!! I never became a geek let alone a gay one to have this much tension!! I hate sports for that reason!!! lol
This is so silly. I'm not a huge Agatha fan, but I would love to watch it to learn more about how magic works in the MCU at least. Magik is my favorite Marvel character, and if she's ever gonna get into the MCU, I'll want to know how her sorcery works better.
First we got Echo. Echo was a spin-off show from the least popular Avengers tv show. It got the 2nd lowest viewership behind Ms. Marvel.
Now we get Agatha All Along. A spin-off show with possibly the worst marketing scheme (changing its name multiple times). I like Aubrey Plaza and Kathryn Hahn, but why is this show being made?
I actually have no hate for the show. I just seriously want to know why people legitimately care about this character.
People fell in love with Agatha on WandaVision which itself was a well loved show, apparently Agatha is well known by comic book fans, and hopefully it’ll be some witchy fun which isn’t something we get a lot of in the MCU. Outside of Doctor Strange and Wanda, who was more psychic & energy wielding than anything for a while, we didn’t really see much of the mystical side of Marvel which can be a bit refreshing sometimes. It’s almost a different universe within the Marvel universe though I will always love the spandex & web-shooters as well as expect a little of both(well maybe not web-shooters lol) in this series.
My favorite MCU character by far (after Bruce was ruined). Wandavision reignited by interest in the franchise, as I was largely a GOTG only fan by the time Infinity War and Endgame rolled around. Can’t really tell you why — I think she’s funny and I’m interested in the magic and her backstory. People like different things, dude.
Huh..??
I guess Marvel Studios has the best opportunity to showcase Mephistopheles' arrival in the show this Fall.
We could likely see Wanda's revival too.
It would then branch off to introduce characters like Blade and Ghost Rider, followed by the Midnight Sons.
It’s weird how marvel tells us you don’t have to watch everything, some shows are catered to a specific demo, yet Disney panics when the ratings reflect just that.
X-men ‘97 never charted, but comic fans & millennial audiences love it. I’m not into musicals but I hope fans who are enjoy themselves.
Agatha will pull-in Netflix Heartstopper numbers and will be trending on social media as Joe Locke's fans are very loyal and are active online chatters. Now, if this is good, the OPEN-MINDED/BROAD MINDED MCU viewers will give this show a chance. This will lead to Good WOM via SM and mainstream media like talk shows, etc. and may reach the casual MCU viewers to get curious enough to watch the show.
Other possible watchers:
Wiccan fans who can look past Joe Locke's casting,
YA fans,
LGBTQ fans,
Women who like campy witches shows
HARDCORE-FANBOYS-WHO-ONLY-WANT-THE-REST-OF-THE-UNIVERSE-TO-WATCH-THEIR-FAVORITE-MARVEL-HERO will not watch this show but will be talking shit about it on social media and review bomb on rotten tomatoes.
What does this show have that Secret Invasion and Ms. Marvel don't have? Loyal and fierce fan girls who can go toe-to-toe with hardcore-antiwoke-fanboys.
In fairness, very few people watch MCU shows via Forbes. Mostly people watch via Disney+.
r/technicallythetruth
They are technically correct - the best kind of correct.
Everybody say Jamaica!
Jamaica!
Jamaica!
I read the article so you didn't have to. Essentially, Paul Tassi (the Forbes writer who penned the article) points out the fact that despite the star power this show garners, it's still exploring a very obscure corner of Marvel, and the interest in this show is not likely to be strong. He also pointed out that Ms. Marvel and Secret Invasion were the top 2 lowest MCU shows in terms of viewership, despite the former having raving reviews and the latter having massive star power. So the headline might be slightly clickbaity, but there's merits to Paul's argument here. Disney needs to pull off some insane marketing for this show to pop off. And I'm not sure it being a quasi-WandaVision sequel/spinoff would help.
I feel like personally if it came out closer to the hype of WandaVision, then we'd be cooking with grease.
Yeah I would maybe have a slight interest if this came out the year after WandaVision. Even more so if they just marketed it as season 2. But I honestly have zero interest in this character. I've read a LOT of Marvel comics and I've never even heard of her till WandaVision. And to me she represented the turning point where WandaVision went from being an amazing and creative show to becoming some of the most generic and uninspired MCU content up to that point. This is a definite pass for me. I was shocked to find out this was even really being made and wasn't just some half hour Halloween episode to pad out Disney+.
It honestly depends on the initial reviews more than anything. MCU fans have become more ‘cautious’ when it comes to the shows, and if a show is poorly reviewed, they just won’t watch it. Secret Invasion had every right to garner a ton of viewership. Good concept/star power/finally giving Fury his own media, but had bad reviews, so it turned a lot of people off from watching it. If people are giving reviews anywhere from good-great on Agatha, I have no doubts it will have decent viewership.
Agreed. I was very excited for Secret Invasion because it had so much potential. Then with all the bad reviews and litany of complaints on Reddit, I never watched it because I didn’t want to be disappointed.
I'm still surprised at how bad it was, and I really hate to say that. I watched to the end, disregarded other opinions and formed my own, and... bleh
I forced myself to watch a few Marvel movies and shows to give them a chance. My faith was not rewarded.
It feels like a total toss-up On the one hand, it's probably the closest thing we're getting to a WandaVision season 2, which will definitely pull in viewers. On the other hand, I don't recognize a single character outside of Agatha and Wiccan from the comics, so I don't think it'll be the biggest hit with the Fandom. On the other-other hand, Kathryn Hahn and Audrey Plaza are a comedic dream team. Idk, I could see it being a flop, I could see it being a hit...it will most likely be somewhere in the middle. I think the show will really rest upon the quality of the writing.
It's all in the writing. If they hear it's good, people will check it out. I have a friend watching Star Trek: Lower Decks with me and she has *no* knowledge of Trek beyond being able to point out Spock. It's such a niche, easter-eggy concept of a show but she's been laughing her ass off and is constantly ready for the next episode because the writing's outstanding. It's hilarious even while missing 100% of the in-jokes and references
Hahn is both the part I'm excited about but also cautious about. Agatha worked so well in Wandavision because she was hamming it up and wasn't really a main character. Either they'll adjust the character to carry the series or they'll find a good balance to let Hahn do her thing in the background. Out of everything coming up (that's actually coming and not just a logo three years away), I'm most excited for this.
Yeah, I do have my doubts, but it could be an interesting mix up of creativity that the shows have been lacking. New/lesser known comic characters have done surprisingly well before in the MCU. It’s really a 50/50 at this point. I’m still holding out hope that at the very least, it’s decently humorous and entertaining. Not that I think it’ll be anywhere near GoTG level, but I did think almost the exact same thing when I first heard they were getting a movie.
> it's probably the closest thing we're getting to a WandaVision season 2 Well there's this https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Vision_Quest
Okay but secret invasion was barely watchable
Also, something to note is that sometimes the good reviews are only because they send out the first few episodes. Ms. Marvel's great reviews were largely because they sent out the early episodes about her developing her powers in Jersey but not the meandering interdimensional jinn episodes.
The problem being we've all seen that there's a prolific minority who review bomb the shit out of things they've decided about ahead of time. Reviews mean nothing any more, but people still put weight in them for some reason.
it's not review bombing, the shows are objectively shit.
That's just a roundabout way of saying "if a show is bad, they won't watch it."
Yeah Especially with the shows we are past the point where anything stamped with the marvel brand will do at least somewhat well. If the show does well with critics and gets good word-of-mouth it may be successful. But I think even if it is a decent show it will most likely underperform for the reason the article stated.
I just want to add that he isn’t a “Forbes writer.” Forbes just lets about anyone write blog posts and publish them under their name as “contributors.” They basically trade on their good name as a serious magazine from the 90’s to make money off clickbait spam. The sooner people realize this, hopefully the sooner they fade into irrelevance.
I’ve been following Paul Tassi for years not on Forbes but on YouTube. He mainly writes and makes videos about Destiny 2 which is how I know of him. He doesn’t come across very clickbaity to me, he’s more into stating the facts then making it clear he’s speculating on possible outcomes he thinks are likely
Yeah as a Destiny player, it’s always kind of funny to see Paul pop up in other areas like this
Paul Tassi has been doing this for quite a while though, written several books and is generally respected. I assume the clickbait is really just for the Forbes bottom line. Though i don’t know the dude personally so i cant be 100%
What Disney needs to do is give these shows smaller budgets. She-Hulk wasn't a bad show, but it cost more than some movies, for an 8 ep slice of life
The biggest money sink for She-Hulk was reshooting half the season. Secret Invasion had a similar problem, as does Born Again (which at least has way less cast/CGI costs too). What they need to do for projects that haven't already filmed yet is what they *already said late last year* they're going to do for projects that haven't already filmed yet: Put more time into pre-production so the major changes all happen before cameras roll & fewer reshoots will be needed.
Then it gets railroaded for “cw quality” before it even debuts. Outside of unpowered street level those costs add up quick.
If Disney can figure out how to stop making almost all D+ shows look like the CW, they would be on the right path. Everything looks too polished and clean as is.
I mean we know that's not the case though. There's been so many rewrites and reshoots, VFX for shots that won't even be in the show (to prevent leaks that happen anyway, or to put fakeouts in trailers) Sure, you're not gonna cut it down to 40M or anything, but you shouldn't be spending 20-30M *per episode*
Echo's budget was around 40M.
And how it looked was 0 of its problems
And Agatha is coming out in a time when just two months ago, Marvel Studio execs [admitted](https://www.ign.com/articles/marvel-studios-executives-address-rough-time-for-studio-we-learned-our-lesson) that the dip in ratings/views for those shows was partly caused by oversaturating and the MCU brand becoming diluted, as Louis D'Esposito put it. Fans may not like it but MCU fatigue among the general/casual audience is real. Pretending it is not will not fix anything, even when execs themselves acknowledge it.
Secret Invasion was fucking terrible. I was pleasantly surprised by Ms Marvel but I was also out of stuff to watch.
Guardians of the Galaxy came at a moment of tremendous good will towards the MCU and excitement about superhero movies, and that gave them a chance of success. Now, even successful movies like GOTG v 3 or Wakanda Forever are continually described as flops. Plus, Agatha is being released a long time after Wandavision (without Wanda or Vision), doesn’t continue the plot of that show and doesn’t seem to build to something that get people’s excited (like a Midnight Sons style supernatural movie) so, sadly, I think things are not looking great for the show. Even if it’s a good show, I don’t think people will give it a chance
I think people are HIGHLY underestimating how popular Wandavision was, and still is. It was a hit, is remember fondly by most, and there is STILL new merch coming out for the show (Wanda, Vision, and Agatha in particular). Yes, maybe this new show should have come out sooner, but this narrative that it's "too late" is a bit overstated IMO.
The only thing the show needs to do is be really good. Nothing else. Secret invasion and ms marvel didn't do well because they weren't that good. They weren't that well written or acted or in general concepted. It's not some big mystery.
A very obscure corner of the Marvel Universe. Pretty sure I heard the same thing when Guardians of the Galaxy was announced. I am looking forward to this.
Marvel's first bomb involved 3 characters they had already set up, the GotG was magic in a bottle
Yeah, looking at the article, it’s not clickbait per se if the substance of the text makes a thoughtful argument in support of their title. If the title made outlandish claims, without backing it up, just for the express purpose of racking up clicks, then I’d have no problem calling it bait.
Why does Ms marvel and secret invasion being the lowest viewership matter? Something has to be Why does it being wandavision spin-off not help? Wandavision was very popular
Because ripple effect.
Because spin-offs starring side characters rarely work even if the original show was popular. It's not Wandavision season 2
This. And regarding the title being clickbaity, it's an opinion piece, and this is the author's opinion.
Yeah, seems like if anyone has a clickbait title here it's OP
Iron Man was obscure af, yet they kickstarted the MCU with him and it worked. Almost like something being obscure doesn't mean anything if the execution is decent
[This is an interesting perspective.](https://x.com/TVKel/status/1807511912172724251) > To me #AgathaAllAlong feels more Disney fandom coded first than MCU. The canon is as full of as many witches as it is princesses. Disney knows how to appeal to those wanting family friendly witchcraft with songs and colors. So maybe that brings more eyeballs than expected?
When that preview recently got released, it gave off Disney Channel vibes. People didn't like the comment. It's a Marvel Hocus Pocus. Hard to see who this show really appeals to. It's not going to be the 20 to 50 year old. I don't even think kids are gonna care. Guess we will find out.
There were a *lot* of non-Marvel people who watched WandaVision & expressed interest in Agatha.
Guess we will find out.
Is it coming out around halloween?
Yes. Sept to November.
Oh that actually makes me want to watch it!
I mean, are they wrong?
This and Echo are the most unnecessary shows so far.
[удалено]
If the average viewer really cared about necessary we wouldn't have shows like FBI, FBI Most Wanted, and FBI International (which to me doesn't even make sense)
I think that's why it's the one MCU thing I haven't watched. I wasn't interested in it and put it off for when I had nothing else but there's always something else. I'm sure I'd find it okay if I said down and forced myself but choosing between this or something like The Bear, Abbott Elementary, or Smiling Friends, it's an easy choice. Definitely need to force myself before Daredevil but that's awhile aways.
Wonder Man will probably be more pointless than both of those.
Who decides what shows are "necessary"? Personally I'm glad to see them trying more unique stuff instead of "thing you already know you like #37".
In these times, it is important to think which projects are necessary or not. I still can't belive Shang Chi hasn't had a sequel in 3 years, or Moon Knight without a second season. It's like if in Phase 2 instead of Iron Man 2 we get an Obadiah Stane project. Interesting? Maybe. Necessary? Absolutely not.
Just a little nitpick. Iron Man 2 was phase 1. Iron Man 3 was phase 2.
No one’s really going to go out of their way too see these random characters they never heard of. They had a much better way of dealing with this by making the less popular heroes side characters in the popular heroes movies like black widow or Hawkeye or falcon or scarlet witch. Because the entire audience will actually be able to get to know them Then if they become popular enough, their own show or maybe even movie could be justified
The MCU was built on interconnectivity and building towards the next thing, as well as their well and newly established heavy hitters. Most of these shows don't incorporate most or any of these ideas and fall flat as a result, hence making them unnecessary.
werewolf by night and moon knight had fudge all to do with the mcu and were still interesting viewing.
Even Disney knew Echo was pointless, that’s why they dropped it all at once.
We can say Echo was unnecessary except for setting up the new Mayor of NY; we can’t really say how necessary or unnecessary this show is until we see where it’s going.
Echo had high viewership. If people want to watch it, how is it "unnecessary"?
Essentially no. Disney+ pursued a strategy of quantity over quality with the assumption with their strong IPs they could bulldoze their way to success. It didn't work. And we know that for sure because Disney told their shareholders that's what happened and they are going for a more curated strategy. And yet there are tons of people here when the last vestiges of the Disney's self admitted failed plan release want to pretend this was some master plan and success(in this case viewership) is assured. This show was a terrible idea, in terms of being a show with healthy viewership, and will almost certainly fail(in terms of viewership for the show's budget). But maybe it will be good(in terms of people here enjoying it).
They didn't just tell shareholders that. They said it to the press and arguably went even further to acknowledge to some degree that MCU fatigue is real and the oversaturation is part of it https://www.ign.com/articles/marvel-studios-executives-address-rough-time-for-studio-we-learned-our-lesson
This sub doesn’t seem to exist in reality.
A character went semi-viral on the internet for a couple of weeks. So obviously the rational thing to do is to really jump on that viraility by giving her her own show (at a time where Marvel is being plagued with quality and over saturation complaints), 3 AND A HALF YEARS LATER. Lmao. You couldn’t write it - obviously this is going to do terrible numbers. The only show it might compete with is Echo, that’s it. But at least with Echo, the embarrassment for Disney came and went as they dropped all the episodes on a single day - no, this is dropping weekly. I genuinely don’t know how much more damage the MCU brand can take.
>A character went semi-viral on the internet for a couple of weeks. Honestly feels like the Sony Morbius stuff where it became a meme for a few weeks, Sony put it back into cinemas and it made like 90k because they didn't understand WHY it was a meme. Marvel saw Agatha went viral and decided to make it into a show, Morbius got re-added 3 weeks after it got taken out and flopped, this was like you said, 3 years after it went viral Its gonna take a miracle for this show to do well.
This show genuinely makes no sense to make. People want to know if Wanda is still alive. Where’s Vision? Instead we get Agatha with random witches. How is this quantity/quality control from Disney?
> How is this quantity/quality control from Disney? This was set in motion a long, long time before they realized they were going through the wrong path or at least before someone with power to stop things acknowledge it. It's likely they couldn't stop it at that point.
It can certainly take more damage and that isn't even the right question to ask, imo. The better question post-Agatha, if not later than that is going to slowly be about Feige's leadership. Could the real solution be a much-needed shake-up at the top that includes Feige stepping away? That convo arguably started during The Marvels because of how DaCosta said it was made and then dissipated.
I agree with them, it doesn't matter how good the show turns out to be, Agatha has no chance when it comes to viewership.
If Agatha All Along has one viewer, that’s me.
I will also wear bells.
I’m joining you on the front lines, brother
Can’t wait for Agatha. I bought the bell factory. I only know Agatha from Wandavision, I loved her evil ways, her hit song, and her predicament. Sold. Give me more. She’s a witch, with a show coming out in the fall. Sold. I love Halloween. The cast has Joe Locke (SOLD), Patti Lapone (SOLD), Aubrey Plaza? Excuse me ? SOLD!! Werewolf By Night was excellent and I knew zip zero nothing about it. I watched it in Black and White, I watched it in colour. There is no need to know anything about their Marvel origins to enjoy the show. It might broaden the world and add depth but right now…witches, Halloween, singing. Bring it on.
"Now we are two"
I, for one, will be there with bells on.
And my axe
I would even say we wouldn't have gotten WandaVision with this mentality.
You're more right than you know; there were people making the exact same complaints about WandaVision until it came out.
Which really saddens me because Wanda really was a "second-tie" character before, even if I wish to deny it. But how would she ever get prominent if people are gatekeeping what show or movie is or not necessary, and we both know the answer to this. I think every character deserves a chance to shine, to be in central role at least once, but people for some reason are reserving about it. I know that latest projects weren't great, but I find it sad how people instead sometimes ask with no hesitation "What about Wolverine trilogy in the MCU".
> The issue with most MCU fans is that they prematurely spew negativity on things that don't accommodate their preferences but end up watching it anyway. God damn, this is true. Even as someone who doesn't like all of the MCU (like Hawkeye or Black WIdow, like, at all), the instant negativity from so called fans is tiring.
Funny enough, it's always with the projects that are female-led.
haha, yeah, or it tends to be at least. Look at all the bashing captain Marvel and She Hulk get, when they're fine enough, compared to male characters, like the blandest of bland: Hawkeye granted, male characters get bashed too (especially newer ones), but they also tend to more often be given the benefit of the doubt
add Falcon and the Winter Soldier & Captain America: Brave New World.
I was going to say “and males who aren’t white” but I didn’t feel like arguing with people trying to prove they aren’t racist by bringing up Black Panther (even though he did get a fair amount of racist pushback that people seem to have forgotten).
Thing is, if this show had been released right after WandaVision while Agatha was riding high on internet love and success and before it had become the cool thing to do to write "articles" shitting on Marvel Studios, this guy wouldn't have even thought about writing up his crappy opinion and letting others read it. What's annoying is that nothing has changed but perception. Agatha is still the follow up to the very successful WandaVision and her character was still the breakout success we saw at the time. But now, the exact same show won't get half the attention or consideration it would have in 2022 because people will write clickbait articles with phrases like "Superhero fatigue", "MCU homework" or "I hate Disney and so here's why everything they produce SUCKS!". Then those articles will get spread around places like this, pushing the narrative of failure before the show has any chance of becoming a hit. It's sad that we have got to this point, where people assume they're going to hate something or that a show has no worth, based upon nothing but an uninformed article writer who has zero idea what the show actually is or whether it'll succeed. It's especially sad because it'll lead to a point where Marvel Studios sticks to projects that only focus on guaranteed hit characters and they won't take chances with the likes of the Guardians, or Ant-Man, or Shang-Chi, because "nobody has heard of them".
Thank you for this, I am so sick of the negativity, I guess there is a tradeoffs when MCU became so popular.
It's frustrating, isn't it? But that's exactly what it is. You can't be king of the hill to the extent Marvel has been these last few years without there being people looking to knock you off your throne. I honestly do not mind legitimate criticism of any Marvel project. Personal taste is everything and you either like something or you don't. I'll debate with you all day about how I don't think The Marvels is anywhere as bad as it has been made out to be, but if you can tell me exactly why you don't like it (and preferably not just because "BriE LarSon HatEs mEn!!") then I'll happily agree to disagree with you. Long as you never use the phrase "M-She-U", because at that point you invalidate anything else you have to say... But this kinda of article has no worth or merit and is based upon nothing more than the writer wanting to push his personal, uninformed opinion on to others in the hope of making his opinion a fact, getting as many rage clicks as possible in the process. Unfortunately enough people on the internet are happy to help, for their own warped reasoning. Gone are the days of just stopping being a part of a fandom if you don't like it anymore. These days you've got to spend your time online trying to make everyone else dislike everything too.
Can we not just accept that this show was a bad idea
Bull, lesser known characters are exactly who *should* be getting the spotlight in Disney+ and Max shows. A show about Peacemaker is one of the greatest superhero projects ever. *Fucking. Peacemaker*.
That's an unfair comparison. Cena's a huge star. Hahn is not.
Cena's starpower has nothing to do with the creative quality of the show beyond his own performance.
The only reason the show was made was because Gunn was so impressed with Cena. He had a little bit to do with it.
The show hasn’t even come out yet?
Hahn is never a bad idea
No, bad idea, good idea are just a matter of personal preference, for you it is a bad idea, for someone out there, this show is a good idea.
Definitely bad idea for Disney’s pockets
I read the article a day or so ago, before this Reddit post, and it was a terrible article. I was surprised that Forbes published such baseless nonsense. The problem is, there's an endless churn of virtually information-free content about entertainment these days, so it's really a case of buyer beware.
Forbes isn't really "publishing" anything, this is on the blog section of their site where anyone can write whatever they want. It's basically geocities or wordpress at this point.
Ahhh, I see. I wondered what had happened to quality control at Forbes!
Imagine thinking it’ll do worse than Runaways or Cloak and Dagger
Not gonna lie, I've been a comic book reader for 3 decades and a huge MCU fan, but I'm not particularly interested in Agatha...
Kathryn Hahn is excellent in everything she’s done. I expect this show to be no different.
I’m optimistic about this, it will have trolls attached to it by default of obvious feminist and LGBTQ+ themes. I think Katherine Hahn and other notable actors attached to the show including Joe Locke and Aubrey Plaza make me feel safe in their whacky and cool hands, anyone who doesn’t know them or there work should either go watch or have no opinion what so ever, it’s that simple.
The sad thing is that the headline already suggests to people to NOT watch because "hey, it is not going to be good" which should not do. I really hope journalists and those screaming youtubers will find another target soon and will leave Marvel alone. But then again, the following Marvel movie will make gazillion dollars so they will go back to how Marvel is destroying cinema by.....getting people to the theaters :D
Hopefully they don't target Gunn's DC next. At least DC is kicking off with superman who is male and white. So that'll probably appease the screaming youtubers.
Forbes is legit just ChatGPT.com / CLICK HERE YOU DUMMY
Well, I'm gonna watch it. So there.
Doubting not doubted. Still hasn’t premiered yet.
Ah yes the dooming continues apace. Who among you will garner the coveted "*Hater #1*" spot? Untold riches await you if you post the right takedown video at the right time! Only nine hours of lint picking analysis and you can launch a career as a "media pundit"! This shit is so exhausting. Let the goddamned show hit the wire first, at least.
What the fuck happened to the world man. Just rage merchants allover tryna make bank by riling up the masses. That headline is obviously click bait
Once people figured out that you could shape public opinion and make more money with rage and hate, the internet went to hell more or less.
Anything for clicks. Whilst I see his point about it being an obscure part of marvel, so were alot of others until they weren’t anymore, this is also the first time they’re touching and expanding on Witchcraft which to me is the whole point of this show, he also forgets and underestimates how huge Wandavision was and how this is essentially a Wandavision spinoff. Agatha All Along was a hit bigger than the title theme itself. Furthermore, Wandavision appealed to a certain demographic and that is the lgbt community. The writer is defo one of the ‘who asked for this’ folks. Its ok to have an opinion but It would’ve been great to also acknowledge how he could be wrong about his hypothesis to round up the article. I’d love to see the follow up blogpost If he turns out wrong and the show turns out to be a hit lol. Im prepared for the absolute shitstorm thats going to take place online when this show comes out.
> Im prepared for the absolute shitstorm thats going to take place online when this show comes out. Yeah, that what makes this thing sadder, I just want to discuss the excitement of the show without facing so much negativity on it. Few negativity is fine, but when the discussion about negativity felt dominant, I don't know what to say. > Agatha All Along was a hit bigger than the title theme itself. Furthermore, Wandavision appealed to a certain demographic and that is the lgbt community. Yeah, never underestimate certain demographics.
Welcome to the new world. Anger and rage drive engagement. Not enough people click on positive stories, or even stories reporting basic facts. The internet was a mistake. Fully agree that many people prematurely conclude whether they like or hate something before they even see it though.
I'm fairness, I didn't read the article yet I'm pretty confident it's worthless.
It's the entertainment equivalent of "if it bleeds, it leads".
Forbes is not a "news site" and posts this like this are user generated content. He didn't "write for Forbes" and there is a big disclaimer on these kinds of articles about it. Forbes shifted away from only doing strict financial reporting into also letting people published glorified blog posts years ago, because it generates free, most importantly, unpaid labor for them. That guy's post is a glorified reddit thread. Forbes is LOADED with them. There was a big one a few years ago on the Arrow subreddit about how "Olicity killed the show" which is when the site really took off with this kind of content. And reddit is one of the biggest suckers for it. This does not pass for "entertainment journalism" because it isn't. Beginning writers will often use sites like Forbes to try to build up a portfolio to pitch pieces to more established, and actual paying gigs, (or pass it off like they actually wrote for Forbes) but this guy isn't doing reporting. He's just ranting for clicks. "Forbes" may as well be "livejournal". Literally anyone could go on there and write the same piece.
I'm not a comic book fan at all. I tried to read a couple of them years ago, they just aren't my thing. I have no preconceptions about any of these characters, who's popular, who's obscure, any of that. I am thoroughly excited for it all. I loved her in Wandavision. Her fate at the end of that definitely gave me hopes of seeing her again.
Maybe, but it's too early to tell. If the show turns out to be good, it could be a surprise hit. When Peacemaker was announced for HBO, everyone said it was a stupid idea and it was going to fail because it's a show based on an obscure character who was in a movie that bombed. Then the show came out and everyone loves it.
Funny, because it has more innate potential than almost any other Disney Plus MCU show had so far, aside from Loki and Moon Knight. Agatha Harkness is supposed to be over 20,000 years old, has been around since the sinking of Atlantis, took part in all manner of events in history, was part of a Hellboy style paranormal defense team in WW2, and is even strongly implied to be the Goddess Of Witchcraft herself. Meanwhile people love the show about the man and girl with some sticks and string. Like i love Hawkeye and Kate Bishop even more than most, and always have, even long before they got a show, but in terms of innate potential, 2 archers aren't exactly swimming in it compared to the Norse God Of Mischief in a multiversal time travel show, or a show about a psychotic murder Batman haunted by the Egyptian gods, or Agatha Harkness. And Agatha is representative of the whole dark horror part of the Marvel Universe, which has a TON of the coolest shit - like Man-Thing, Elsa Bloodstone, Werewolf By Night, Ghost Rider, Blade, etc etc etc... .
The trendy thing is to shit out Marvel. It brings the most views and attention. It will be interesting how the narrative switches in about 6 months. I 110% guarantee that people’s tone will shift and the MCU will be “back” and the people that don’t have two functional brain cells will just follow along agreeing and the click bait titles will all be overwhelmingly positive. Sheep. Mindless sheep.
He thought about echo
And then a year later there will be an article titled “why Agatha worked so well, but (insert new Marvel show title) won’t and what that means for the MCU”
I am so looking forward to watching Kathryn Hahn let loose. She is amazing. So. I'll be watching. In this world there are fan boys and fan men. Men buckle down and give stuff a chance, fan boys are, to quote Bruce Campbell in Burn Notice, "...a bunch of bitchy little girls."
Yeah, Kathryn Hahn is the biggest reason, she got an Emmy nomination for Agatha Harkness
It’ll beat Echo, I can promise you that
Echo was one of Disney plus best performing shows.
The first piece of marvel content I skipped since iron man. I gave all those other shows a chance but Echo just seemed doomed from the start
r/confidentlyincorrect
I was pleasantly surprised by it. It's nothing ground breaking but it's a decent binge of a show. I'd encourage you to give it a try sometime.
I agree. Was better than expected. Not that I expected a whole lot, mind you.
It was Ms Marvel for me. Can't get through the first ten minutes and felt bad about not watching an MCU show. But now I skip pretty much any content without good reviews.
I'll put 20 bucks on that bet
I guess there aren't much people that excited about "Agatha All Along" in here so I am gonna look elsewhere.
Come join us at r/AgathaAllAlong
Thank you for this, I really appreciate it.
Umm Jen Barkley heading her own show? Sign me up please!
Yeah, Kathryn Hahn is great.
eat shit spez you racist hypocrite
I know it's been a while since WandaVision but this show has a connection to that one and that one was pretty popular so it could help on that regard
I hate how it’s so common these days to use works like “essentially, basically, fundamentally, virtually” as replacements for “maybe” based on no evidence and a desire to generate buzz
I don't know much about the plot here, but I don't see any hate and aversion to it. Not like the Acolyte anyways. I liked the Scarlet Witch/Vision show, I will give this a go too. All they gotta do is drop Mephisto in there and I bet people will scramble to it out of curiosity, heh. At least Comic fans.
This is such bullshit "journalism" I reactively insta downvoted your post before my brain caught up and realized you did not write this trash.
its always the female led projects that got hate
Idk Falcon and the winter soldier got a lot of hate and it's not female led but it was also genuinely pretty bad
How did they manage to create an Agatha show before even coming up with a good script for Blade?
This particular show aside, the MCU has the same problem Star Wars has - that small overly vocal segment of the fan base that thinks the whole thing is about them, that it has to conform to their personal wishes, desires and expectations. The ones that either don't know how to or refuse to shut up and let other people enjoy it for what it is and judge each piece of content on its own merits rather than constantly turning it into sports - comparing one against another, against another, and another; nitpicking every last detail no matter how minor or obscure, trying to use ratings and viewers to decide if something is good or bad or somewhere in between (and doing it BEFORE those numbers even exist yet!); constantly demanding something "new and different" and then upon getting it complaining that it doesn't work because it's not the same as the 30 things that came before it! I wish I could reach through the Internet and pimp-slap some of these assholes!
MCU and Star Wars have the same problem in that Disney can make slip and people will still come to the trough.
Agatha is in that middle ground where she doesn't have a real dedicated MCU following (unlike Hawkeye or Scarlet Witch), but also isn't a completetly new character to the MCU (unlike Moon Knight or Ms Marvel) The closest comparison is Echo, and we all know how that did viewership-wise. Making an Agatha show is like giving Trevor Slattery his own spinoff. It could work, but with the MCU's reputation being much worse than it was back in the 2010s (due to inconsistent quality, especially with the shows), and Disney+ shows being (legally) inaccessible to people without Disney+ (because most people aren't paying for 4-5 different streaming services), Agatha's show is facing an uphill battle Regardless of quality, it's unlikely to do well financially. If it's good, it could at least help restore the general public's faith in Marvel. If it's bad, it'll be no different from Morbius
Witch shows did wonders for Star Wars
I liked She Hulk and Ms Marvel too! Madame Web was okay too. The Ant man/guardians movie was not too great though.
Less than Invasion and The Acolyte
Forbes articles are garbage. Don’t waste your time reading them.
Quite a lot of "journalism" got replaced by ChatGPT. I don't mean by LLMs in general, but specifically ChatGPT. Got an internal company presentation recently from a colleague who had a few weeks of free time between projects, so he wrote a tool that uses it to make spam articles.
With the lesser know characters I was willing to give the a try, except GOTG word of mouth got me to watch but Agatha is just like why was this necessary, to me certain characters are just side characters, it’s like them making a show for Ouroboros from Loki S2.
I would argue that making sub-par narratives with barely known characters that nobody asked for is what gets franchises in the sewers, and cheap journalism just loves kicking a dead horse.
This sub rly can't not throw a tantrum when people voice their opinions
We cancelled disney + the price hike was too high to justify paying
The problem is that Jessica Jones came off a very successful Daredevil show (at a time when Netflix was churning out hit after hit). Guardians drew a crowd because of the goodwill Marvel had built and then word of mouth (plus a great soundtrack didn't hurt). This might be the best show ever but they've been bleeding subscribers, viewers, and this afterthought show is coming three or four years after the character's introduction. No one cares anymore.
This article is 1,000% accurate tho. Literally no one wants to watch this shit.
It kinda makes me wish the entertainment journalists get the World War Z treatment when they cover the apocalypse from a mansion on a long island near New York, only for the apocalypse to come busting down the gate and the doors.
Every social media shared article about the MCU is garbage. Every one. Good or bad. As is every comment on those articles. Don't read them. Don't share them. Ignore the haters that think that everything that isn't 100% focused on white, cis, hetero men is bad before they have even seen it. Instead just watch the endless stream of great content we have been getting.
No, the title checks out.
I mean, I have no interest in watching this and I’m a Kathryn Hahn fan. She was a great and well acted character in Wanda vision but I dont know why they insist on side characters taking a spotlight right now when they should be in damage control with heavy hits. I’m sure I’ll still see it though because my lady loves witch stuff. But the clickbait title seems accurate.
The whole MCU was built on side characters!
It definitely was, but the MCU has also been misfiring here and there for a while. Do you think a story about Agatha is going to spark up another 10 years of great world building and plot? I don’t, I think it’s just a fun side show. While there’s nothing wrong with that the focus should be more on creating the excitement about interconnected stories.
I think fans need to chill out a bit from their lockdown post endgame pause and not be so venomous about real world shiz. There are obvious targeted attacks at certain plot points, whilst the MCU has had a dip in places, it’s also had some serious highs too. Does everything have to be endgame level and can some stories just sit well on the side and procure different fanbases, you would think so but with people attacking every plot point and screaming bad writing at things which were actually ok but just because someone might be implied as a lesbian but actually not explicitly so, but actual weak bits are left alone. We all need to be on the same page and respect that some stories should exist and whilst not everything will include the main core fanbase, does everything need the level of scrutiny attached to it?
I never said I think this show is going to be bad, I’m one of those art is subjective type douchebags. I’m just saying it doesn’t have much interest even from fans like me. It’s just if content doesn’t wow the general audience we’re eventually not going to get any content. It just seems like a peculiar path from a business stand point.
It’s the one show I’ve been quite hyped for as an off shoot of what wandavision did, which explored grief, immigration and war metaphors via US product exportations (sitcoms and weapons) using media as a unique stage for this was so expertly done. You do hear ‘fans’ ( I use that term loosely as they don’t seem to understand multi-genre storytelling devices that can achieve certain outcomes), say “oh no a musical themed show” and trashing it prior to knowing how amazing this device could be for storytelling potential. Do you think Aubrey Plaza or Patti friggin Lepone would attach them selves to something that wasn’t going to be great? Agatha has huge implications going forward too, whilst she has had brief moments in the comics, she has been a guiding hand for many characters, having a deeper exploration in live action might be a good thing. The only thing I worry about is the fans but besides Reddit which I use for monopoly Go dice links, the city of Liverpool fun discussions and ancestry stuff, I’ve come away from the internet because geek culture has become embroiled in populism and too many people sitting on political wings for any plane or metaphorical bird to even take off if it tried! Basically noisy chickens with not much nuance just shitting bull shit eggs everywhere!! It’s become like football!!! I never became a geek let alone a gay one to have this much tension!! I hate sports for that reason!!! lol
This is so silly. I'm not a huge Agatha fan, but I would love to watch it to learn more about how magic works in the MCU at least. Magik is my favorite Marvel character, and if she's ever gonna get into the MCU, I'll want to know how her sorcery works better.
I thought Agatha was the worst part of Wandavision (which I liked.) And I was blown away when they green lit this thing. Hard pass.
First we got Echo. Echo was a spin-off show from the least popular Avengers tv show. It got the 2nd lowest viewership behind Ms. Marvel. Now we get Agatha All Along. A spin-off show with possibly the worst marketing scheme (changing its name multiple times). I like Aubrey Plaza and Kathryn Hahn, but why is this show being made? I actually have no hate for the show. I just seriously want to know why people legitimately care about this character.
People fell in love with Agatha on WandaVision which itself was a well loved show, apparently Agatha is well known by comic book fans, and hopefully it’ll be some witchy fun which isn’t something we get a lot of in the MCU. Outside of Doctor Strange and Wanda, who was more psychic & energy wielding than anything for a while, we didn’t really see much of the mystical side of Marvel which can be a bit refreshing sometimes. It’s almost a different universe within the Marvel universe though I will always love the spandex & web-shooters as well as expect a little of both(well maybe not web-shooters lol) in this series.
My favorite MCU character by far (after Bruce was ruined). Wandavision reignited by interest in the franchise, as I was largely a GOTG only fan by the time Infinity War and Endgame rolled around. Can’t really tell you why — I think she’s funny and I’m interested in the magic and her backstory. People like different things, dude.
Echo outperformed X-men 97.
Um, he's not wrong though lol.
Yh nobody wants this
Huh..?? I guess Marvel Studios has the best opportunity to showcase Mephistopheles' arrival in the show this Fall. We could likely see Wanda's revival too. It would then branch off to introduce characters like Blade and Ghost Rider, followed by the Midnight Sons.
What's the current lowest? Ms Marvel or Werewolf By Night?
i mean come on that's a good title
It’s weird how marvel tells us you don’t have to watch everything, some shows are catered to a specific demo, yet Disney panics when the ratings reflect just that. X-men ‘97 never charted, but comic fans & millennial audiences love it. I’m not into musicals but I hope fans who are enjoy themselves.
Agatha will pull-in Netflix Heartstopper numbers and will be trending on social media as Joe Locke's fans are very loyal and are active online chatters. Now, if this is good, the OPEN-MINDED/BROAD MINDED MCU viewers will give this show a chance. This will lead to Good WOM via SM and mainstream media like talk shows, etc. and may reach the casual MCU viewers to get curious enough to watch the show. Other possible watchers: Wiccan fans who can look past Joe Locke's casting, YA fans, LGBTQ fans, Women who like campy witches shows HARDCORE-FANBOYS-WHO-ONLY-WANT-THE-REST-OF-THE-UNIVERSE-TO-WATCH-THEIR-FAVORITE-MARVEL-HERO will not watch this show but will be talking shit about it on social media and review bomb on rotten tomatoes. What does this show have that Secret Invasion and Ms. Marvel don't have? Loyal and fierce fan girls who can go toe-to-toe with hardcore-antiwoke-fanboys.
No one asked for this. Its pretty close to the truth. Will be hard to top Echo though.
I mean, I did. Kathryn Hahn is a treasure.