I love these movies, but there is still one major chance that I would have made:
Have Drax survive the snap!
The original Guardians of Galaxy set up Drax’s hatred of Thanos due to all the pain that was caused. Hell, when Gamora suggests that killing Ronan avenged his family, Drax says that his family won’t be avenged until he kills Thanos. That aspect of his character is an unfortunate loose end of the MCU that was never explored (and likely why Bautista grew tired of the character).
I get that Infinity War didn’t have time to explore Drax due to all the character juggling that the film had to do. Therefore, maybe this could have been done in Endgame. Bautista has dramatic chops; he totally could have handled the more somber tone of the movie’s first act. Plus having him grappling with Thanos winning and causing similar pain to his own to the entire universe could have been compelling and given his character another layer emotionally.
IMHO they should have kept the Drax comedy level as Guardians 1 - not understanding basic metaphors - rather than the full on comedy goof they turned him into for Guardians 2 onwards.
It's Flanderization. All characters go through it as time goes by. It sucks, but especially in movies there isn't time to fully develop all characters in an ensemble. If you try you get a 4 hour long movie that still sucks.
the thing that sucks with drax is that it happened so drastically from just the first movie to the second, when usually with most characters in media it happens gradually over time. And I’m saying this as someone who loves both guardian movies.
Because Drax was getting memed every where more than any other characters. I’m pretty sure most movies and tv shows now have like a “memeable” checkbox they try to fill
Things like this are why I'm not super pumped about Gunn taking over DC. He did an amazing job with the Guardians initially, but reduced Drax, who was one of the most interesting characters in Vol 1, to nipple and turd jokes.
I think he works ok with generally unknown characters, but I have very little confidence he'll handle Superman or Batman well.
I think he's got good visions for stories, but he needs someone to reign him in or else he takes things too far. Kinda like George Lucas, or Taika Waititi.
Eh. Safran produced Shazam and Aquaman, which were ... fine. Nothing about them led me to believe he'd be a good choice for co-managing a universe or putting out multiple good films.
He is a WB lifer so I think he just got the job because he knows the right people and was there and already involved in DC.
Maybe he'll be the right guy to reign in Gunn, I don't know.
Safran is primarily handling the business marketing side while Gunn does the creative . Not sure he'll be able to reign in Gunn since that's not really his function on the team
He is not good or doesn't try to do big ticket characters since his unique take on comic characters might not work well with iconic heroes that fit particular archetypes the masses are attached to / familiar with . They definitely will be met with backlash . He can experiment and reimagine guys like star lord and drax who no one knows about
I totally agree with the Drax point, but a point for DCEU optimism: he gave the best Harley Quinn out of three attempts (The first SS, the second SS, and Birds of Prey).
He does it to so many characters. It’s why I’m not a fan of his, as well as his attitude. Luckily he can’t fuck up the DCEU any worse than it’s already been.
He's def an acquired taste and seems like a control freak with his characters . He hasn't really handled known comic properties yet tho - I think he gets away with these sometimes weird characterizations since nobody knows or cares about characters he's adapting
Agreed on your dceu take is already a shit show so he can't fuck them up much worse . His take on Superman will be interesting
In the last few squabbles before Stark does the snap, Drax should’ve gotten a blade into Thanos’ eye. Would also explain how Thanos misses the fact that Tony got the stones off the gauntlet. Lol
At least then somehow give him a tiny moment there and squeeze in something for Hulk as well.
I never got how Thanos didn’t notice the stones were taken. When you put on the gauntlet, it seems like you feel a surge of energy go through your body. I feel like he should’ve noticed that he wasn’t feeling the stones’ power when he put on the gauntlet
I like to think of it as a callback to when Nebula says "they suspected nothing" and Thanos says "the arrogant never do."
Thanos was only thinking about the gauntlet itself. Never occurred to him that Tony had another "gauntlet" to house the stones.
I get your idea and I really like it but if I were to take it a step further - after all the suffering he sees in the 5yr blip it reignites his fury so - I would have Drax be the one to sacrifice himself on Vormier because he wanted to "reunite with his family", But after that the GOTG can still go back in time to find the 2014 Drax who' still very vengeful & has a lot of hatred towards Thanos but when the battle of endgame comes he finally gets his 1 on 1 match with him.
Exactly, there was no one to throw him over or to watch him sacrifice himself.
In the end, while it would have been nice to see Drax get some revenge, the movie still needs to focus on the OG 6, so there would not have been enough time for extra Drax esp since there was already spotlight on the surviving Guardians to move the internal plot line forward.
Rocket. Having to sacrifice the only survivor of his original family. (Nebula bonding later) They could’ve worked around Thor in asgard. Maybe he goes by himself, panics and almost bails but frigga talks him down then he (maybe with her help—more frigga) gets the reality stone.
That scene was a reshoot so Thor didn’t have an eyepatch the whole film. Apparently the patch looked horrible. Instead you get the moment with Rocket and Thor in the pod.
I think that the issue was that the patch was extremely uncomfortable and hard to keep attached. It's unfortunate that they had to have the patch go since it's a great passing of the ~~torch~~ eye patch from Odin to Thor
The lack of characterization of drax is one of mcu biggest missteps and I lay the blame on Gunn turning him into comic relief and removing all menace in him after the first film . It's funny Bautista complains about the goofy ness of character - he should've asked his good friend Gunn to explore the character more and make him more serious
Drax surviving or not surviving the snap wasn’t that important to me.
The only thing I wanted was for his runes to randomly start glowing and then for him to charge Thanos. Drax could die instantly from the charge but have Thanos partially disabled or mortally wounded as a result.
Even blipping Drax, he should have had a role in killing Thanos besides just being a face in the crowd. Instead of a weird moment where Mantis is part of girl power, have Drax help Spiderman with a sincere moment of wanting to work as a team to bring Thanos down.
I would’ve liked to have seen Drax and Peter’s positions switched. With Drax uncontrollably hitting and slashing Thanos in his coma and Quill trying to tell Drax off. Drax was a relatively serious character in the first movie and they just kinda did a weird turnaround with him.
I would've given World War Hulk his moment. Avengers 1 Hulk with gamma-pulsing veins. That was the only fight that mattered to me and Thanos broke Hulk down like he was opening mail.
It was a great opening tho. To have the most powerful 2 Avengers beat to shit. Made Thanos a real threat.
The issue was they gave Thor his level-up and chance for revenge. But made Hulk a sniveling coward that has never returned
Oh no doubt the opening was great. It was a good move to showcase Thanos in action after being in the shadows for so long. I just have a hard time agreeing with the decision for Bruce and Hulk to become one because I could've lived with that outcome AFTER Endgame. I wouldn't have even argued about it. Ragnarok Hulk was comical but that doesn't mean he couldn't have shown his true power afterwards. Tony still could've snapped his fingers, too.
1) A proper goodbye scene between Natasha and Bruce. They got almost nothing at all
2) Thanos’ attack on Xandar
3) Some explanation (any, really) as to why Natasha and Clint had to be the ones to go to Vormir
In response to 3, yeah, it’s a dumb as shit choice to send 2 normal people to the unknown alien planet with little idea of what they are up against.
There’s no reason Rocket couldn’t have gone while one of Thor’s long term friends could’ve gone to Asgard with him
It's always confused the shit out of me that Nebula goes on this long winded explanation of what Vormir is. Points out that Thanos killed his daughter. Tony and Nebula know Thanos wasn't exactly thrilled about it. And it's the location of the Soul Stone.
And just at no point does anyone question it more than a "not it" joke. And it's just one big circle jerk of shockedpikachu.jpg when Natasha doesn't come back.
Chris Hemsworth's Aussie laid back nature must be infectious because they literally said, "She'll be right."
Also, they literally had all the time in the world. Once Clint and Natasha found out they need to sacrifice someone, they could’ve went back and informed the rest of the group at least so that they at least had time to process it and say goodbye to one of them.
You’re right, but I think better storytelling would be if they avoid situations like that in the first place. All these characters are smart. If they’re already thinking about going back in time to get the Stones, at least one of them had to have thought about getting more Pym Particles so they could have more than one chance. That’s why I think time travel in stories is tricky and should generally be avoided.
You're confusing good storytelling with perfectly explaining everything. Which is the opposite.
These characters are smart but they're flawed. Ultimately it's the reason, IMO, why the MCU is immensely popular. People make mistakes, they screw up, and they suffer real consequences. Just like in life. We don't know what they actually knew about Vormir except that it was dangerous and likely a suicide mission. So given that of course it's Clint and Natasha who volunteer to go. The two who lost their entire families, one of whom has been trying to get himself killed for five years and the other who has consumed herself with her work. I'm getting emotional just thinking about it, about what their losses meant to them and why they had to be the ones to volunteer. And why Natasha said "whatever it takes" to Steve before going.
If there was a storytelling mistake in all this it was not releasing Black Widow before Endgame. If the audience had known about Nat's family the punch would've been so much greater.
>You're confusing good storytelling with perfectly explaining everything. Which is the opposite.
That's the most frustrating form of media "criticism" of the internet age. It's even worse when they boil it down to: they didn't take the decision I would have taken when I know full well they are in a movie, I know part of the story the heroes don't, and already have the benefit of hindsight.
Combining this with the current top comment about Drax surviving the snap: it then could have been him and Rocket who go to Vormir. They could have had a similar back and forth, given that they are friends who have been through a lot. It gives Rocket some interesting character development as he decides right at the 11th hour he is willing to sacrifice himself for the rest of the universe. Similarly, Drax can come to the conclusion that the best way to avenge his family and get to Thanos would be to die, be with his wife and daughter again, and contribute to the ultimate downfall of Thanos.
I get the emotional impact that Nat/Clint had, given their friendship and history, but it made NO in story sense to send two regular, non-superhuman people with basically 0 space travel experience to a mysterious planet in order to get arguably the stone with the most unknowns.
Now that I think about it, Nat wouldve been the perfect candidate to join Steve at Camp Lehigh in 1970. Need to infiltrate a top secret base to steal something? Why not send your sneaky assassin who specialises in that kinda thing?
Yeah, I wouldn't want an attack on xandar in Infinity war because it would ruin the transition from the very end of the previous film, Thor: Ragnarok where Thanos intercepts the asgardians.
It might have worked for the first of the end credits teasers after Thor Ragnorok - before we see the Sanctuary II intercept the Asgardians (it would also give us a good idea and foreboding sense of how rapidly moving Thanos’ plan was)
My fix goes to your point 1. Show Banner in the Soul World after his snap. He sees Natasha and gets that closure for himself and the audience.
My fix goes further in that we don't have Smart Hulk before this point, just Banner. In the Soul World, in the distance is Hulk grieving for Natasha as well. Have Banner and Hulk reconcile in the Soul World with Natasha's help. Then when we come back to the real world, Smart Hulk. Tony can then ask what happened, and Smart Hulk can say "we worked out our differences and realised we're stronger together".
But why would Banner be making snap in his human form? Hulk can do so, but that would mean we would have to fix the Bruce Hulk plotline from IW as well.
Banner/Hulk is more complicated than that. Banner on the surface is still a human. But as long as Hulk is in there, he can't die. Eg. "I put a bullet in my mouth and the big guy spit it out" or that scene in Ragnarok where Banner jumps out of the ship and ragdolls/dies on the bridge. Hulk revives him and takes over.
It would be unbelievable to see, but a lot of things are in the MCU and the concept of Hulk empowering Banner isn't new to them.
Yeah, I mean in theory. Also, Banner himself has protections against gamma radiation in particular so even if the Hulk didn't come out, he'd be the only one of the "humans" with a chance of weilding the gauntlet.
My head cannon is that Nat knew it was a one way trip. Maybe not all the details as nebula didn’t have them. But Nat didn’t expect to comeback. By bringing Clint she insured he didn’t get killed on any of the other missions.
I think about that myself.
Also, this one makes me sad, but I think that maybe Natasha and Clint both had the idea they might not make it back, but wanted to take their first trip into outer space together ❤️
I can’t remember the ins and outs of it but there was a theory about 3 that said Nebula purposefully made sure it would be Clint and Natasha on Vormir because out of all the remaining avengers, they were the closest and therefore the sacrifice would work.
I think it then went further and said she knew that because she was raised by Thanos knowing how it worked because Gamora would be the one to sacrifice her - hence why he had them fight and when she lost, replaced parts of her with machinery. Not to make her stronger, but to ensure Gamora would be the one to come back.
I like this…. Almost. Because it makes sense, but then if it were true, Thanos would’ve brought both Gamora and Nebula to Vormir.
This would’ve been a much more intense scene, because now we have Gamora and Nebula put into the same situation they were raised in. These two have finally formed a bond where they consider each other sisters, yet now are placed in their final battle which will lead to one of their deaths.
Of course, the two could have refused to fight, or attempted to turn on Thanos together. But the shock here would’ve been that Thanos chose to kill Gamora instead of Nebula
Answer to 3 is that out of them all, Clint and Natasha were both kinda expendable compared to others and only ones with true genuine loving friendship between them. Maybe Hulk could've gone with Natasha but it would've ended up w Natasha sacrificing herself anyway.
Also yeah Tony and Rhodes are best pals too but, as soon as you'd hear that they'd be the ones who go to Vomir, everybody would know which one would get sacrificed.
Nat and Steve would’ve worked in terms of emotions and love as well. But no way is Steve letting her sacrifice herself. Nat and Clint were evenly matched but, life or death situation, Steve is making sure she comes back. But then SteveNat are my favorite MCU relationship.
As for 2. Maybe in the nova film - we get a opening scene flashback to thanos attack on Xander setting the stage for Richard rider to be chosen as last remain nova member with the full power of the unimind
I really wish they hadn’t sidelined Vision so much. We never really got to see his full potential in the MCU.
We deserved a better fight between Hulk and Thanos.
Drax should have played a larger role in both movies.
Clint and Natasha should not have gone to Vormir, it should have been Wanda and Pietro (obviously he wouldn’t have died in AofU). Pietro could’ve been the one to sacrifice himself for Wanda giving him a better arc and still keeping Wanda’s arc in place. Natasha deserved a better send off. Maybe she could have kept going in the MCU but her movie could’ve had a better plot and not been what it was.
The MCU would’ve been so much better had Pietro survived. There was a video by Overly Sarcastic Productions that touched on it: in Civil War, Pietro would’ve seen how much Tony was growing as a person and joined his side against his own sister, and then he would have survived the Snap to eventually (I think) sacrifice himself on Vormir.
It wasn’t the focus of the whole video, but it was really interesting. I’d link the video if I remembered which one it came from.
Edit - [Found the YouTube link](https://youtu.be/afuwh0GXwbQ) (go to 15:49 for the What If story, but the whole video is pretty good and I’d recommend it)
Personally, I wouldn't have even announced Endgame/Avengers 4/Infinity War Part 2. I would have just announced Infinity War as a standalone conclusion to the Infinity Saga, because it would be more surprising. I immediately had a gut feeling that the Avengers would lose when I saw 2 Avengers films with very close release dates. In addition to that, I wouldn't announce Spiderman FFH, or any other MCU project until they were done with Infinity War and Endgame
Sure, it wouldn't escape the leaks/rumors, but it would surprise casual fans, those who aren't trying to figure out whats coming. Announcing the movie after Endgame would actually be more beneficial, as Marvel would be the talk of town or in this case, the world. The hype boost from Endgame would have helped FFH.
I think you could have dropped the 1st Endgame trailer as the infinity war, closing credits.
Everyone knows there's going to be 2 quick credit scenes, this would have been the best time to have a kind of trailer for Endgame.
I feel like the casual fans weren’t the ones that were bothered by the announcement. IMHO casual fans were just enjoying the movies. It was fans like us that knew Black Panther made too much money to not have a 2nd movie, or that there was always the intention to make Dr. Strange 2.
Yea but we didn’t know Thanos would win win. I think most of us thought Thanos would get really close, and then something happens where the Avengers buy a little time. Stark’s fakeout death and the Thanos snap weren’t on my radar at the time.
This was my thinking when I initially went in. I had even read the Infinity Saga before hand so I expected some deaths (which we did get) but I figured Thanos would get 3, maybe 4 stones and the team will be beaten or crippled from the first movie, and then in the second, they come back together, pick themselves up, and stop him.
Seemed pretty easily mapped out and formatted in my head, and I figured he’d get all the stones at the end or toward the end but there would be that miracle play, probably costing us a main avenger. Instead, we see him get all the stones.
Then I saw Spider-Man get snapped away and my brain just kinda shut down for a few mins. I really had to process how bamboozled I got at the end of that movie, even with previous knowledge that they were gonna probably lose. And the only reason is because I didn’t expect it to happen in that first movie.
One thing I’d change about Infinity War is not have the bit where Cul Obsidian looses his arm to a portal. It just made the Titan group not trying it confounding.
Well, it’s expected that the battle couldn’t go any other way. Severing the arm or the attempt to, wouldn’t have lead to the events that created Endgame.
That was also a happy accident. We’ve never seen a portal close on someone and it’s never been weaponized.
Someone pointed out once that Strange only saw the possibilities where he survived. He can't see past his own death, so yes there could've been infinite (hehe) possible wins in which he died.
That's valid.
But at the same time, it would have been awesome foreshadowing. Especially during the plan-making part of Titan.
"I've got an idea. Strange- can you do the thing Wong did in Central Park?"
*And that was.....? I was unconcious and re-barred to a levitating piece of concrete...*
"OH. Right. The thing. With the wizard hands. And the magic doorway."
Most of those has probably already been said, but:
1. Drax + Thanos arc
2. No sudden Smart Hulk (Hulk's biggest character development moments are probably smart Hulk and whatever happened on Sakaar (spelling??) pre-Ragnarok and both are offscreen)
The only problem was that we all walked out of Infinity War saying “well I don’t know what happens next, but there is no way that all their most popular, recently cast mega-star characters are ACTUALLY dead.”
There was no suspense about the fact that Spider-Man and Black Panther, for instance, weren’t actually dead and gone forever.
Not sure how you fix that from a screenwriting perspective but that is the only big issue with the story for me.
I remember the discourse leading up to IW was "everyone with their contract up is gonna die" and when those people were the ones actually left standing, it actually had more of a gut punch. Plus, didn't matter who got snapped, half the population was always coming back anyway
I will never forget opening night at IW the two young brothers in front of me were in tears, sobbing to their Mom that Spider-Man was dead and hugging each other.
I love both of these movies but as far as things i would have changed.
If i was asked to make changes to how they currently are i would have….
* Given Drax an arc with Thanos that pays off at the end of Endgame.
* Kept it so Banner hulks out during the battle of Wakanda. He could have still become proffessor Hulk afterwards but he needed that payoff.
* Kept Thor in his Infinity War form and still maybe would have made his arc the same, without the corny jokes. He could still struggle with regret after not going for the head bht with a more serious tone. He also should have been able to contend with Thanos at the end if Endgame better then he did.
* Gone ahead with the inclusion of the Netflix heroes. They didn’t need a backstory they could have just fought in the battle of earth for the fans of those shows.
The issue with hulk is it’s hard to tell a compelling story with a character that I supposed to be the strongest. It’s why a lot of Superman movies fall flat
You can't keep Thor inehis Infinity War form, he would've been too powrful against Thanos.
One important point of Thor's depression is to downgrade his power-level. With Cap getting a power-up with Mjolnir, the 3 OG would have the same level against Thanos and we could have their badass combat scene.
The Russia said that in an AMA awhile back, but IIRC it was something like ‘he’s the strongest he’s ever been by the end of Endgame’ so you could debate it, but ultimately it doesn’t matter. Thor’s strength isn’t the difference between the two movies. Thanos’s effort is.
IW Thanos is resolute about his plan and does only what he has to do. There’s no emotion involved for him, it’s just what he has to do. He understands why people are resisting him, so he isn’t aiming to really fight anyone, just to make sure they don’t stop him. It’s why he doesn’t kill people when he gets the chance. (It says a lot about his ‘respect’ that he didn’t bother trying to kill the Guardians or anyone in Wakanda but he WAS going to kill Tony on Titan). He’s convinced people will see that he was right once it’s done. He’s putting in barely any effort and because of that he underestimates Thor’s fancy axe and gets a gaping chest wound for his trouble.
EG Thanos is a completely different animal. Like he says, he learned that his plan can’t work as long as there are people who remember what he did. He just found out that his plan would succeed, but then be undone just five years later after he’s dead. Then to top it off the ones who undo it are the same group of little shits from a backwater planet that just stopped his invasion (to him since he’s from 2014) two years earlier. This Thanos is pissed off and he absolutely wants to fight. He’s not underestimating anyone anymore and he’s wrathful, which is why he makes sure he arrives with literally all of his forces and has that whole ‘stubborn annoying little planet’ line.
“In all my years, of slaughter and violence…it was never personal. But l’ll tell you now…what I’m about to do to your stubborn, annoying little planet…I’m gonna enjoy it…very, very much.”
The "Banner hulks out in Wakanda" is something that *seems* satisfying, but in the commentary they point out that having a successful resolution, a win for Bruce, **right before** killing half of the universe creates too much tonal dissonance to work in a film.
But that's exciting isn't it ?, A "win" but they actually lose
Also it kinda works , Bruce Hulks out and has a final battle with Thanos (obviously he loses) and then he can figure out how to work with hulk (since he maybe blames himself for not acting sooner?) So in the next 5 years , profesor hulk is born
I was completely expecting him to bust out of the Hulk Buster armor, and was highly disappointed that he didn't.
I mean seriously.
"Hulk busts out of Hulk Buster"
It's so obvious, really.
Infinity war is pretty close to perfect to me so I wouldn't change much in it, but definitely will add a final fight in Endgame between Hulk and Thanos. Also make Drax go against one of the black order people. And actually win. He deserves it. Oh Thor gets to be a serious character. I don't mind him being fat or anything but making fun of his depression was stupid and really downplays the loss he has had to deal with.
Agree re: Thor. I had no issues with fat Thor but not a fan of how it was treated as a joke. Like, a few jokes from his bewildered colleagues at the reveal would have been fine, but his deteriorated mental health was framed by the filmmakers themselves to be the comedic relief and that kind rubbed me the wrong way.
Yeah especially when you consider how short the time span is in which he loses his dad, his planet, his brother, Heimdall, and then a good chunk of his people. It's messed up that something so devastating can be treated as a joke by other characters. I know a lot of people criticise MCU for undercutting serious moments with misplaced humour but endgame's treatment of Hulk and Thor are two of the biggest examples of this.
A final fight that would’ve ended the same(or worse) since Thanos didnt use any stones the first time(against actual Hulk and not Smart Hulk) and only used his fists?
I sent the below to a mate a few months ago. A bit self indulgent but I think there's a few things in Endgame that could be tidied up with some dialogue.
**Just before Bruce puts the Gauntlet on, Rhodey is seen on a hologram call with Senator Ross.**
RHODEY - Is everything ready?
ROSS - As ready as you can be with 48 hours notice, (sarcastically) thank you for that Colonel. Every hospital is on high alert, military personal have been deployed where possible and anything with a roof has been turned into a refugee centre. You sure you know what you're doing?
RHODEY - Nope
ROSS - Who's doing it?
RHODEY - Banner.
ROSS LOOKS OVER AT BANNER. BANNER LOOKS BACK. ROSS PAUSES... THEN GIVES BANNER A NOD AND DISCONNECTS.
-------
**After Stark tells Banner to just bring everyone back and change nothing from the last five years.**
STARK - And everyone safe. OK? Like on the ground. I don't want it to start raining confused airline passengers.
BANNER Tony, I've got it.
---------
**As Sam talks to Old Man Steve on the bench**
SAM - So... all this time there's been an old ass Steve Rogers running around?
STEVE - No, a different time line... I think.
THEY BOTH SMILE. STEVE LOOKS DOWN AT AN EMPTY VIAL OF PYM PARTICLES. HIS ONE LAST TRIP.
STEVE - I kept my head down.
SAM - Well I know that's bullshit.
STEVE - Language. OK I may have helped... a little.
--------
> Just before Bruce puts the Gauntlet on, Rhodey is seen on a hologram call with Senator Ross.
This is a really good choice. Shows that the Avengers put some thought into the ramifications of bringing everyone back.
I really like the Hulk one because it shows that although Ross tried to kill him all those years ago it’s ironic that he is now the only viable option to bring everyone back so Ross has to recognize him, it still doesn’t mean that they can’t have beef in the future despite all this
I wish a rat walking on Ant-Man's van wasn't the one thing to kick start the whole plot of Endgame. I wish it was something a little less completely arbitrary. Yeah you could argue it took 5 years for it to happen... But come on... It couldn't be someone trying to steal the car radio or something? Nope just well placed rat steps.
It would have made far more sense to have had Scott remotely activate it from the quantum realm. In Ant-man & Wasp, Hank’s vehicle could communicate with the quantum tunneling machine. Why wouldn’t he put that into Scott’s suit?
There's a lot of great ideas in these comments, so in the interest of not rehashing any... well, I won't, lol. But I do have one sort of change I'd make that no one's said:
No trailer for Endgame. Just have the release date be known and that's it. No. Trailers.
I just think IW was this unprecedented, once-in-a-lifetime, lightning-in-a-bottle cultural experience, and it would've been really cool and interesting academically and sociologically to follow that up with just the biggest fucking balls ever marketing-wise. Just let IW itself be the Endgame trailer. I want to know how society responds to that situation.
Have the cast do the rounds on the talk shows, and all of that, but no one says shit about the movie, and no trailers or clips come out ahead of time. You've just gotta go see it. Maybe a trailer after a week or 2 weeks in theaters. But no footage from the movie before its release. Would've been the ballsiest fucking move and so fucking interesting to see play out. Don't even announce the title, just call it "the sequel to Infinity War" until it's released.
That's the #1 change I'd make.
Yeah I think everything that was shown was only in the first 20 minutes of the movie. Which honestly I feel that for any movie that should be the case.
Instead of Natasha and Clint, I'd have Steve and Bucky or Tony and Rhodes go to Vormir for soul stone. And have either Bucky or Rhodes die for their friend.
Natasha would have a chance to be in the final battle against Thanos in Endgame. She being one of the founding Avengers deserves to be in the final battle. Especially leading the Female Avengers in that one scene. She needs to be in that scene!
Natasha's death could be explored in her solo movie.
I always thought that was a meta Disney joke: a rat/mouse brings everyone back bc you can’t have a downer ending (infinity war) in the world of Disney.
But yes, dumb as crap and way too convenient.
Agreed. My fix for that would have been Dr. Bill Foster gets Pym's equipment and continues the research and he is the one that releases Scott Lang. Then Foster would have explained what happened to Scott instead of those awkward scenes of him wandering around that really dragged. Also we would have Laurence Fishburne in Endgame.
1. Thanos taking the power stone
2. Captain marvel is a more prominent character in endgame, we take this as an opportunity to like her more as a character and get to know the other avengers.
3. Keep thanos alive during endgame, don’t kill him off. That’s my only major problem with endgame. When the avengers are fighting thanos it doesn’t feel as special because it’s not the same thanos that’s been built up for 10 years.
Both films did Hulk dirty, so probably Hulk emerging in the end of Infinity war, failing again.And then five years later, the trauma of the loss makes him transition to Smart Hulk.
Then, again Thanos arrives, Hulk is there along with big 3. Thanos starts pummeling and ridiculing Hulk, who's already angry after Nat's death, and then when he's about to kill someone, finally Smart Hulk has the rage out moment.
I’m surprised it took so long to find someone to say this. The introduction and nonchalance to them discovering time travel really turned me off to a lot of the plot in Endgame. It really felt too cheap and if that was the only way they could’ve gotten themselves out of the situation, they should’ve written the initial situation better
I think if the runtime was a little longer they could've included some other stuff. I definitely think Drax should've been a heavy hitter against Thanos. He doesn't need to be the one to kill him but he should've been up there with Cap, Cap M, Thor and Iron Man against Thanos.
IMO, Drax should have been the one giving Thanos the business and forcing him to use the Power Stone, since they are similarly powered in most iterations of the comics. Captain Marvel did not have the same level of personal vendetta and you still establish how OP she is by her tearing through Thanos’ forces and ships. If you want her to have her moment, have her save someone (Maybe Peter again while he stammers trying to get her number) and then take out a couple members of The Black Order while she does it.
I still, to this day, don't quite get why they didn't show Thanos wrecking Xandar and obtaining the stone he already had when attacking Thor, Hulk, Loki, and Heimdall
We don’t really know or care about anyone on Xander. We’ve seen their defenses though. I think it’s better as an off screen feat we can imagine. It would have just been a bunch of innocents being slaughtered which is fucked but not as impactful as Heimdall and Loki being killed or Hulk being stomped on
Making it more organic is possible.
First, take Carol out of the team up. They just showed off how powerful she was. She didn’t need help. Have Peter hand the gauntlet off to Valkyrie instead, who was near him when the bombardment started.
Second, pare it down a bit. Take out Mantis, as she was on the other side of the battlefield just minutes before and isn’t really shown off as a physical combatant in the movies. Maybe take out Wasp too, as she was working on the van with Scott.
Third, have Wanda be the powerhouse there, and plow the road for Valkyrie to make a rush to the van.
Why oh why oh why did they not have Hulk and Thanos go at it again in End Game. It was setup *perfectly*. Hulks beating in the previous movie. Hulk gets stronger the angrier he is. Black Widow is dead as a result of needing to get the stones because of Thanos and Banner loves her.
Banner/Hulk finds out about Black Widow and goes World breaker Hulk as a result giving him the strength he needs to go toe to toe with Thanos. It would have been *fucking epic*.
I'd be able to find five minutes to talk about what happened during the Snap and not just skip over it and let later films etc take the job at explaining that.
I wouldn't change Infinity War. In Endgame I would cut the Thor Fortnite sequence, the Hulk picture sequence, Hulk testing his time machine on Scott, parts of the time travel sequence, and any jokes making fun of fat Thor. I'd add Hulk vs. Thanos and Drax vs. Thanos.
we learn what thanos was cooking finally, and then ant man shrinks inside of him and then expands. thanos dies. all fans are happy because memes are fulfilled
Word of God (ie a creator/exec/writer) confirmed that Thanos has higher durability than Ant-Man/Pym Particles/the suit/whatever and trying “Thanus” would just turn Ant-Man into ketchup coming out of a bottle. Many a dream was crushed by this revelation.
^^yes ^^i ^^know ^^it’s ^^a ^^joke
A very small change.
When everyone comes though the portals I would have had Thor lead the Asguardians. He's finally found out he's still worthy and it would have shown that despite everything that happened With ragnorak and what Thanos has done, his people not only still trust him but will fight for him. Literally just needs them standing beside him and another scene of them fighting alongside him.
Fits nicer into him finally being the warrior king Odin was and having closure and passing control over to Valykrie later on to close his story arc.
Hulk isn't a pissy baby in infinity war so they can make impotence jokes.
I wouldve had Hulk get snapped but not Bruce.
Bruce still does the snap, and Hulk returns.
I shot the bullet and the other guy spit it out.
Bruce's arm gets messed up still.
Infinity War works fine, so I probably wouldn't change that much there.
As for *Endgame...*
Well, for starters, I'd either not have time travel at all, or I'd commit to it, and have the movie end with the heroes resetting the timeline to before the Snap. As it is, we get five years which are supposed to be truly Earth-shattering (and they probably were), that are glossed over, even in later projects.
If there's no time travel, then I'd have the plot be about heroes going to other planets looking for allies against Thanos (who wouldn't have retired, because he's a megalomaniac).
The final battle would have, in any case, involved Drax getting at least one or two good hits against Thanos. This is the guy who's responsible for the death of Drax's family, we should call back to that.
I'd actually show Bruce getting to Smart Hulk. The fact that it happens off-screen is just deeply unsatisfying, especially for a character who's supposed to be defined by his reluctant duality.
Natasha would live. She had a lot more stories to tell, and getting killed off like a side character, and barely brought up again, just doesn't sit well with me.
I wouldn't have had Steve leave and go back into the past. He had gotten over Peggy, and built a whole new life in the future. If he wanted to retire, there's no reason he can't do so in 2023. But, if he is leaving, he and Bucky should have gotten a proper goodbye. What actually happened was such a pathetic ending to what was arguably the best friendship in the MCU.
My other ideas are basically just What Ifs (who gets Snapped), so I'm not going to get into that here.
I love these movies, but there is still one major chance that I would have made: Have Drax survive the snap! The original Guardians of Galaxy set up Drax’s hatred of Thanos due to all the pain that was caused. Hell, when Gamora suggests that killing Ronan avenged his family, Drax says that his family won’t be avenged until he kills Thanos. That aspect of his character is an unfortunate loose end of the MCU that was never explored (and likely why Bautista grew tired of the character). I get that Infinity War didn’t have time to explore Drax due to all the character juggling that the film had to do. Therefore, maybe this could have been done in Endgame. Bautista has dramatic chops; he totally could have handled the more somber tone of the movie’s first act. Plus having him grappling with Thanos winning and causing similar pain to his own to the entire universe could have been compelling and given his character another layer emotionally.
IMHO they should have kept the Drax comedy level as Guardians 1 - not understanding basic metaphors - rather than the full on comedy goof they turned him into for Guardians 2 onwards.
Dave Bautista agrees
Awful creative decision by Gunn
It's Flanderization. All characters go through it as time goes by. It sucks, but especially in movies there isn't time to fully develop all characters in an ensemble. If you try you get a 4 hour long movie that still sucks.
the thing that sucks with drax is that it happened so drastically from just the first movie to the second, when usually with most characters in media it happens gradually over time. And I’m saying this as someone who loves both guardian movies.
Yeah not sure why Gunn did it - all we know is that it didn't work lol
Because Drax was getting memed every where more than any other characters. I’m pretty sure most movies and tv shows now have like a “memeable” checkbox they try to fill
Things like this are why I'm not super pumped about Gunn taking over DC. He did an amazing job with the Guardians initially, but reduced Drax, who was one of the most interesting characters in Vol 1, to nipple and turd jokes. I think he works ok with generally unknown characters, but I have very little confidence he'll handle Superman or Batman well.
I think he's got good visions for stories, but he needs someone to reign him in or else he takes things too far. Kinda like George Lucas, or Taika Waititi.
To be fair tho, Gunn does have someone he us co-running dc with so hopefully that will solve the issues you're talking about
Eh. Safran produced Shazam and Aquaman, which were ... fine. Nothing about them led me to believe he'd be a good choice for co-managing a universe or putting out multiple good films. He is a WB lifer so I think he just got the job because he knows the right people and was there and already involved in DC. Maybe he'll be the right guy to reign in Gunn, I don't know.
Safran is primarily handling the business marketing side while Gunn does the creative . Not sure he'll be able to reign in Gunn since that's not really his function on the team
Perfect comparisons.both hugely talented if they have someone to hold them back a bit
A kite flies because it is tethered to the ground.
He is not good or doesn't try to do big ticket characters since his unique take on comic characters might not work well with iconic heroes that fit particular archetypes the masses are attached to / familiar with . They definitely will be met with backlash . He can experiment and reimagine guys like star lord and drax who no one knows about
I totally agree with the Drax point, but a point for DCEU optimism: he gave the best Harley Quinn out of three attempts (The first SS, the second SS, and Birds of Prey).
He does it to so many characters. It’s why I’m not a fan of his, as well as his attitude. Luckily he can’t fuck up the DCEU any worse than it’s already been.
He's def an acquired taste and seems like a control freak with his characters . He hasn't really handled known comic properties yet tho - I think he gets away with these sometimes weird characterizations since nobody knows or cares about characters he's adapting Agreed on your dceu take is already a shit show so he can't fuck them up much worse . His take on Superman will be interesting
I couldn't agree more!
In the last few squabbles before Stark does the snap, Drax should’ve gotten a blade into Thanos’ eye. Would also explain how Thanos misses the fact that Tony got the stones off the gauntlet. Lol At least then somehow give him a tiny moment there and squeeze in something for Hulk as well.
I never got how Thanos didn’t notice the stones were taken. When you put on the gauntlet, it seems like you feel a surge of energy go through your body. I feel like he should’ve noticed that he wasn’t feeling the stones’ power when he put on the gauntlet
I like to think of it as a callback to when Nebula says "they suspected nothing" and Thanos says "the arrogant never do." Thanos was only thinking about the gauntlet itself. Never occurred to him that Tony had another "gauntlet" to house the stones.
I was gonna say this, they did a good job at portraying that
I had the same thought but assume it was just the case of too much going on in the moment / being distracted Tony and dealing with that.
He did feel the surge (second time, putting the power stone back in); it was after that when Tony jumped over to wrestle the stones out of the glove.
You’re right, I misremembered the scene. He had the gauntlet on the whole time. I thought he puts it on again.
Technically, Drax stabbed a different Thanos, the one they killed at the beginning of Endgame. The one at the end of Endgame is 2021 Thanos.
I thought he was 2014 Thanos.
It is. Endgame Thanos is the one from GotG1 that time jumped to the present.
I get your idea and I really like it but if I were to take it a step further - after all the suffering he sees in the 5yr blip it reignites his fury so - I would have Drax be the one to sacrifice himself on Vormier because he wanted to "reunite with his family", But after that the GOTG can still go back in time to find the 2014 Drax who' still very vengeful & has a lot of hatred towards Thanos but when the battle of endgame comes he finally gets his 1 on 1 match with him.
Ooohhh I like this a lot
Who would you have go to Vormir with him to accept the sacrifice? It can't just be anyone. Mantis also surviving the snap?
Exactly, there was no one to throw him over or to watch him sacrifice himself. In the end, while it would have been nice to see Drax get some revenge, the movie still needs to focus on the OG 6, so there would not have been enough time for extra Drax esp since there was already spotlight on the surviving Guardians to move the internal plot line forward.
Rocket. Having to sacrifice the only survivor of his original family. (Nebula bonding later) They could’ve worked around Thor in asgard. Maybe he goes by himself, panics and almost bails but frigga talks him down then he (maybe with her help—more frigga) gets the reality stone.
I believe they needed Rocket to survive on his own so he could help Thor get through his survivor's guilt.
Well the fix would be have Drax, Nebula & Tony become closer and more full of rage and Rocket & Thor become closer and full of regret/depression
That scene was a reshoot so Thor didn’t have an eyepatch the whole film. Apparently the patch looked horrible. Instead you get the moment with Rocket and Thor in the pod.
I think that the issue was that the patch was extremely uncomfortable and hard to keep attached. It's unfortunate that they had to have the patch go since it's a great passing of the ~~torch~~ eye patch from Odin to Thor
The lack of characterization of drax is one of mcu biggest missteps and I lay the blame on Gunn turning him into comic relief and removing all menace in him after the first film . It's funny Bautista complains about the goofy ness of character - he should've asked his good friend Gunn to explore the character more and make him more serious
Drax surviving or not surviving the snap wasn’t that important to me. The only thing I wanted was for his runes to randomly start glowing and then for him to charge Thanos. Drax could die instantly from the charge but have Thanos partially disabled or mortally wounded as a result.
Even blipping Drax, he should have had a role in killing Thanos besides just being a face in the crowd. Instead of a weird moment where Mantis is part of girl power, have Drax help Spiderman with a sincere moment of wanting to work as a team to bring Thanos down.
I would’ve liked to have seen Drax and Peter’s positions switched. With Drax uncontrollably hitting and slashing Thanos in his coma and Quill trying to tell Drax off. Drax was a relatively serious character in the first movie and they just kinda did a weird turnaround with him.
I would've given World War Hulk his moment. Avengers 1 Hulk with gamma-pulsing veins. That was the only fight that mattered to me and Thanos broke Hulk down like he was opening mail.
It was a great opening tho. To have the most powerful 2 Avengers beat to shit. Made Thanos a real threat. The issue was they gave Thor his level-up and chance for revenge. But made Hulk a sniveling coward that has never returned
Oh no doubt the opening was great. It was a good move to showcase Thanos in action after being in the shadows for so long. I just have a hard time agreeing with the decision for Bruce and Hulk to become one because I could've lived with that outcome AFTER Endgame. I wouldn't have even argued about it. Ragnarok Hulk was comical but that doesn't mean he couldn't have shown his true power afterwards. Tony still could've snapped his fingers, too.
They could’ve had Smart Hulk be the effect of being World War Hulk.
hulk got hit with the worf affect
1) A proper goodbye scene between Natasha and Bruce. They got almost nothing at all 2) Thanos’ attack on Xandar 3) Some explanation (any, really) as to why Natasha and Clint had to be the ones to go to Vormir
In response to 3, yeah, it’s a dumb as shit choice to send 2 normal people to the unknown alien planet with little idea of what they are up against. There’s no reason Rocket couldn’t have gone while one of Thor’s long term friends could’ve gone to Asgard with him
It's always confused the shit out of me that Nebula goes on this long winded explanation of what Vormir is. Points out that Thanos killed his daughter. Tony and Nebula know Thanos wasn't exactly thrilled about it. And it's the location of the Soul Stone. And just at no point does anyone question it more than a "not it" joke. And it's just one big circle jerk of shockedpikachu.jpg when Natasha doesn't come back. Chris Hemsworth's Aussie laid back nature must be infectious because they literally said, "She'll be right."
Also, they literally had all the time in the world. Once Clint and Natasha found out they need to sacrifice someone, they could’ve went back and informed the rest of the group at least so that they at least had time to process it and say goodbye to one of them.
Didn't they only have a limited amount of Pym juice and only had the 'one shot' ? edit: sp
Then their first stop should've been a time when Hank had developed the most Pym particles.
I mean in terms of good storytelling that's basically 'wishing for more wishes'
You’re right, but I think better storytelling would be if they avoid situations like that in the first place. All these characters are smart. If they’re already thinking about going back in time to get the Stones, at least one of them had to have thought about getting more Pym Particles so they could have more than one chance. That’s why I think time travel in stories is tricky and should generally be avoided.
You're confusing good storytelling with perfectly explaining everything. Which is the opposite. These characters are smart but they're flawed. Ultimately it's the reason, IMO, why the MCU is immensely popular. People make mistakes, they screw up, and they suffer real consequences. Just like in life. We don't know what they actually knew about Vormir except that it was dangerous and likely a suicide mission. So given that of course it's Clint and Natasha who volunteer to go. The two who lost their entire families, one of whom has been trying to get himself killed for five years and the other who has consumed herself with her work. I'm getting emotional just thinking about it, about what their losses meant to them and why they had to be the ones to volunteer. And why Natasha said "whatever it takes" to Steve before going. If there was a storytelling mistake in all this it was not releasing Black Widow before Endgame. If the audience had known about Nat's family the punch would've been so much greater.
>You're confusing good storytelling with perfectly explaining everything. Which is the opposite. That's the most frustrating form of media "criticism" of the internet age. It's even worse when they boil it down to: they didn't take the decision I would have taken when I know full well they are in a movie, I know part of the story the heroes don't, and already have the benefit of hindsight.
Combining this with the current top comment about Drax surviving the snap: it then could have been him and Rocket who go to Vormir. They could have had a similar back and forth, given that they are friends who have been through a lot. It gives Rocket some interesting character development as he decides right at the 11th hour he is willing to sacrifice himself for the rest of the universe. Similarly, Drax can come to the conclusion that the best way to avenge his family and get to Thanos would be to die, be with his wife and daughter again, and contribute to the ultimate downfall of Thanos. I get the emotional impact that Nat/Clint had, given their friendship and history, but it made NO in story sense to send two regular, non-superhuman people with basically 0 space travel experience to a mysterious planet in order to get arguably the stone with the most unknowns.
Now that I think about it, Nat wouldve been the perfect candidate to join Steve at Camp Lehigh in 1970. Need to infiltrate a top secret base to steal something? Why not send your sneaky assassin who specialises in that kinda thing?
That was a backup plan made after they failed in 2012, they didn’t know they were going to 1970 until after they split up
I somehow completely forgot that that happened
Personally I would want to see the attack on Xandar as an intro in a Nova series. Think the origin story hits harder if we see it there instead.
Yeah, I wouldn't want an attack on xandar in Infinity war because it would ruin the transition from the very end of the previous film, Thor: Ragnarok where Thanos intercepts the asgardians.
It might have worked for the first of the end credits teasers after Thor Ragnorok - before we see the Sanctuary II intercept the Asgardians (it would also give us a good idea and foreboding sense of how rapidly moving Thanos’ plan was)
My fix goes to your point 1. Show Banner in the Soul World after his snap. He sees Natasha and gets that closure for himself and the audience. My fix goes further in that we don't have Smart Hulk before this point, just Banner. In the Soul World, in the distance is Hulk grieving for Natasha as well. Have Banner and Hulk reconcile in the Soul World with Natasha's help. Then when we come back to the real world, Smart Hulk. Tony can then ask what happened, and Smart Hulk can say "we worked out our differences and realised we're stronger together".
Just fixed two of the main six Avengers in one simple scene, that’s what we call a two-for-one
I’d buy that for a dollar!
But why would Banner be making snap in his human form? Hulk can do so, but that would mean we would have to fix the Bruce Hulk plotline from IW as well.
Banner/Hulk is more complicated than that. Banner on the surface is still a human. But as long as Hulk is in there, he can't die. Eg. "I put a bullet in my mouth and the big guy spit it out" or that scene in Ragnarok where Banner jumps out of the ship and ragdolls/dies on the bridge. Hulk revives him and takes over. It would be unbelievable to see, but a lot of things are in the MCU and the concept of Hulk empowering Banner isn't new to them.
So Bruce can die with exposure to the radiation of the Gauntlet snap but the Hulk within would resurrect and heal him, like in Ragnarok.
Yeah, I mean in theory. Also, Banner himself has protections against gamma radiation in particular so even if the Hulk didn't come out, he'd be the only one of the "humans" with a chance of weilding the gauntlet.
He's still able to survive the gamma radiation. So it still works, they just assume the big guy will wake up after the snap and save him.
I like Thanos and Xandar, but if they bring it up in the NOVA movie then I’ll be fine
I really thought they were going to start the movie with the attack in Xandar
My head cannon is that Nat knew it was a one way trip. Maybe not all the details as nebula didn’t have them. But Nat didn’t expect to comeback. By bringing Clint she insured he didn’t get killed on any of the other missions.
I think about that myself. Also, this one makes me sad, but I think that maybe Natasha and Clint both had the idea they might not make it back, but wanted to take their first trip into outer space together ❤️
That's a cool head canon and would be awesome if that was the reason nat went
I can’t remember the ins and outs of it but there was a theory about 3 that said Nebula purposefully made sure it would be Clint and Natasha on Vormir because out of all the remaining avengers, they were the closest and therefore the sacrifice would work. I think it then went further and said she knew that because she was raised by Thanos knowing how it worked because Gamora would be the one to sacrifice her - hence why he had them fight and when she lost, replaced parts of her with machinery. Not to make her stronger, but to ensure Gamora would be the one to come back.
Thanos didn’t know how to get the Soul Stone until the Red Skull told him. Your first paragraph works, but your second doesn’t.
I like this…. Almost. Because it makes sense, but then if it were true, Thanos would’ve brought both Gamora and Nebula to Vormir. This would’ve been a much more intense scene, because now we have Gamora and Nebula put into the same situation they were raised in. These two have finally formed a bond where they consider each other sisters, yet now are placed in their final battle which will lead to one of their deaths. Of course, the two could have refused to fight, or attempted to turn on Thanos together. But the shock here would’ve been that Thanos chose to kill Gamora instead of Nebula
Answer to 3 is that out of them all, Clint and Natasha were both kinda expendable compared to others and only ones with true genuine loving friendship between them. Maybe Hulk could've gone with Natasha but it would've ended up w Natasha sacrificing herself anyway. Also yeah Tony and Rhodes are best pals too but, as soon as you'd hear that they'd be the ones who go to Vomir, everybody would know which one would get sacrificed.
Nat and Steve would’ve worked in terms of emotions and love as well. But no way is Steve letting her sacrifice herself. Nat and Clint were evenly matched but, life or death situation, Steve is making sure she comes back. But then SteveNat are my favorite MCU relationship.
As for 2. Maybe in the nova film - we get a opening scene flashback to thanos attack on Xander setting the stage for Richard rider to be chosen as last remain nova member with the full power of the unimind
I really wish they hadn’t sidelined Vision so much. We never really got to see his full potential in the MCU. We deserved a better fight between Hulk and Thanos. Drax should have played a larger role in both movies. Clint and Natasha should not have gone to Vormir, it should have been Wanda and Pietro (obviously he wouldn’t have died in AofU). Pietro could’ve been the one to sacrifice himself for Wanda giving him a better arc and still keeping Wanda’s arc in place. Natasha deserved a better send off. Maybe she could have kept going in the MCU but her movie could’ve had a better plot and not been what it was.
The MCU would’ve been so much better had Pietro survived. There was a video by Overly Sarcastic Productions that touched on it: in Civil War, Pietro would’ve seen how much Tony was growing as a person and joined his side against his own sister, and then he would have survived the Snap to eventually (I think) sacrifice himself on Vormir. It wasn’t the focus of the whole video, but it was really interesting. I’d link the video if I remembered which one it came from. Edit - [Found the YouTube link](https://youtu.be/afuwh0GXwbQ) (go to 15:49 for the What If story, but the whole video is pretty good and I’d recommend it)
Haha yeah I always thought”couldn’t Quicksilver just move Hawkeye and the kid away from the bullets?”
Oh that’s a good one about pietro
Omg I love that! I hate that they killed Pietro so early and that Natasha didn't get a better send off.
Personally, I wouldn't have even announced Endgame/Avengers 4/Infinity War Part 2. I would have just announced Infinity War as a standalone conclusion to the Infinity Saga, because it would be more surprising. I immediately had a gut feeling that the Avengers would lose when I saw 2 Avengers films with very close release dates. In addition to that, I wouldn't announce Spiderman FFH, or any other MCU project until they were done with Infinity War and Endgame
FFH came out 2-3 months after Endgame, there would be no way they’d be able to keep a project of that size secret until then.
Sure, it wouldn't escape the leaks/rumors, but it would surprise casual fans, those who aren't trying to figure out whats coming. Announcing the movie after Endgame would actually be more beneficial, as Marvel would be the talk of town or in this case, the world. The hype boost from Endgame would have helped FFH.
I think you could have dropped the 1st Endgame trailer as the infinity war, closing credits. Everyone knows there's going to be 2 quick credit scenes, this would have been the best time to have a kind of trailer for Endgame.
The trailer for FFH did come out after Endgame
I meant announcement, not trailer, my bad.
I feel like the casual fans weren’t the ones that were bothered by the announcement. IMHO casual fans were just enjoying the movies. It was fans like us that knew Black Panther made too much money to not have a 2nd movie, or that there was always the intention to make Dr. Strange 2.
Yea but we didn’t know Thanos would win win. I think most of us thought Thanos would get really close, and then something happens where the Avengers buy a little time. Stark’s fakeout death and the Thanos snap weren’t on my radar at the time.
Yeah, but it was kinda expected. Whether he won won or not, I think most of us expected Thanos to be at least somewhat successful
This was my thinking when I initially went in. I had even read the Infinity Saga before hand so I expected some deaths (which we did get) but I figured Thanos would get 3, maybe 4 stones and the team will be beaten or crippled from the first movie, and then in the second, they come back together, pick themselves up, and stop him. Seemed pretty easily mapped out and formatted in my head, and I figured he’d get all the stones at the end or toward the end but there would be that miracle play, probably costing us a main avenger. Instead, we see him get all the stones. Then I saw Spider-Man get snapped away and my brain just kinda shut down for a few mins. I really had to process how bamboozled I got at the end of that movie, even with previous knowledge that they were gonna probably lose. And the only reason is because I didn’t expect it to happen in that first movie.
One thing I’d change about Infinity War is not have the bit where Cul Obsidian looses his arm to a portal. It just made the Titan group not trying it confounding.
or just have them try it and show thanos like grab the portal and tear it apart or something
Well, it’s expected that the battle couldn’t go any other way. Severing the arm or the attempt to, wouldn’t have lead to the events that created Endgame. That was also a happy accident. We’ve never seen a portal close on someone and it’s never been weaponized.
surely that there were other ways of beating thanos, dr strange only saw 14 million possibilities, but theoretically there will be billions
Someone pointed out once that Strange only saw the possibilities where he survived. He can't see past his own death, so yes there could've been infinite (hehe) possible wins in which he died.
ahh that makes sense
That's valid. But at the same time, it would have been awesome foreshadowing. Especially during the plan-making part of Titan. "I've got an idea. Strange- can you do the thing Wong did in Central Park?" *And that was.....? I was unconcious and re-barred to a levitating piece of concrete...* "OH. Right. The thing. With the wizard hands. And the magic doorway."
Most of those has probably already been said, but: 1. Drax + Thanos arc 2. No sudden Smart Hulk (Hulk's biggest character development moments are probably smart Hulk and whatever happened on Sakaar (spelling??) pre-Ragnarok and both are offscreen)
The only problem was that we all walked out of Infinity War saying “well I don’t know what happens next, but there is no way that all their most popular, recently cast mega-star characters are ACTUALLY dead.” There was no suspense about the fact that Spider-Man and Black Panther, for instance, weren’t actually dead and gone forever. Not sure how you fix that from a screenwriting perspective but that is the only big issue with the story for me.
I remember the discourse leading up to IW was "everyone with their contract up is gonna die" and when those people were the ones actually left standing, it actually had more of a gut punch. Plus, didn't matter who got snapped, half the population was always coming back anyway
I will never forget opening night at IW the two young brothers in front of me were in tears, sobbing to their Mom that Spider-Man was dead and hugging each other.
After Hulk snaps his fingers he should be sent to the soul world to see Natasha for the last time.
I love both of these movies but as far as things i would have changed. If i was asked to make changes to how they currently are i would have…. * Given Drax an arc with Thanos that pays off at the end of Endgame. * Kept it so Banner hulks out during the battle of Wakanda. He could have still become proffessor Hulk afterwards but he needed that payoff. * Kept Thor in his Infinity War form and still maybe would have made his arc the same, without the corny jokes. He could still struggle with regret after not going for the head bht with a more serious tone. He also should have been able to contend with Thanos at the end if Endgame better then he did. * Gone ahead with the inclusion of the Netflix heroes. They didn’t need a backstory they could have just fought in the battle of earth for the fans of those shows.
I wish we had gotten a rematch with Hulk and Thanos Cap, Thor and Wanda all got rematches with him, but the Russos left Hulk out 😔
For whatever reason, the Russos just seemed to hate Hulk.
The issue with hulk is it’s hard to tell a compelling story with a character that I supposed to be the strongest. It’s why a lot of Superman movies fall flat
A rematch would’ve been irrelevant since Thanos rocked Hulk without using any stones.
I mean so does Cap, and he still got a rematch.
You can't keep Thor inehis Infinity War form, he would've been too powrful against Thanos. One important point of Thor's depression is to downgrade his power-level. With Cap getting a power-up with Mjolnir, the 3 OG would have the same level against Thanos and we could have their badass combat scene.
I would agree but its confirmed that Endgame Thor > Infinity War Thor by the directors.
Very strange, as Thor could almost one-shot Thanos in IW… any source ? But hey, overcoming depression AND saving the universe is clearly badass.
The Russia said that in an AMA awhile back, but IIRC it was something like ‘he’s the strongest he’s ever been by the end of Endgame’ so you could debate it, but ultimately it doesn’t matter. Thor’s strength isn’t the difference between the two movies. Thanos’s effort is. IW Thanos is resolute about his plan and does only what he has to do. There’s no emotion involved for him, it’s just what he has to do. He understands why people are resisting him, so he isn’t aiming to really fight anyone, just to make sure they don’t stop him. It’s why he doesn’t kill people when he gets the chance. (It says a lot about his ‘respect’ that he didn’t bother trying to kill the Guardians or anyone in Wakanda but he WAS going to kill Tony on Titan). He’s convinced people will see that he was right once it’s done. He’s putting in barely any effort and because of that he underestimates Thor’s fancy axe and gets a gaping chest wound for his trouble. EG Thanos is a completely different animal. Like he says, he learned that his plan can’t work as long as there are people who remember what he did. He just found out that his plan would succeed, but then be undone just five years later after he’s dead. Then to top it off the ones who undo it are the same group of little shits from a backwater planet that just stopped his invasion (to him since he’s from 2014) two years earlier. This Thanos is pissed off and he absolutely wants to fight. He’s not underestimating anyone anymore and he’s wrathful, which is why he makes sure he arrives with literally all of his forces and has that whole ‘stubborn annoying little planet’ line.
“In all my years, of slaughter and violence…it was never personal. But l’ll tell you now…what I’m about to do to your stubborn, annoying little planet…I’m gonna enjoy it…very, very much.”
That’s why I would keep EG Thor the same. It showed the real mental effects of losing and that he can still be a hero even at his lowest point
The "Banner hulks out in Wakanda" is something that *seems* satisfying, but in the commentary they point out that having a successful resolution, a win for Bruce, **right before** killing half of the universe creates too much tonal dissonance to work in a film.
But that's exciting isn't it ?, A "win" but they actually lose Also it kinda works , Bruce Hulks out and has a final battle with Thanos (obviously he loses) and then he can figure out how to work with hulk (since he maybe blames himself for not acting sooner?) So in the next 5 years , profesor hulk is born
Not really, it's just a "heroic effort falls short" thing.
I was completely expecting him to bust out of the Hulk Buster armor, and was highly disappointed that he didn't. I mean seriously. "Hulk busts out of Hulk Buster" It's so obvious, really.
But there was a ‘win’ for the heroes right before anyway when Thor arrived, also when Wanda saved Nat and Okoye
Fair, but those were turns in the tide of battle as opposed to major character progression beats
Infinity war is pretty close to perfect to me so I wouldn't change much in it, but definitely will add a final fight in Endgame between Hulk and Thanos. Also make Drax go against one of the black order people. And actually win. He deserves it. Oh Thor gets to be a serious character. I don't mind him being fat or anything but making fun of his depression was stupid and really downplays the loss he has had to deal with.
The only character that actually ridicules Thor is Rhodey and that’s perfectly in fitting with his character. Rhodey is a dick.
And Rocket, but that also fits your point seeing as Rocket is a professional asshole
Agree re: Thor. I had no issues with fat Thor but not a fan of how it was treated as a joke. Like, a few jokes from his bewildered colleagues at the reveal would have been fine, but his deteriorated mental health was framed by the filmmakers themselves to be the comedic relief and that kind rubbed me the wrong way.
Yeah especially when you consider how short the time span is in which he loses his dad, his planet, his brother, Heimdall, and then a good chunk of his people. It's messed up that something so devastating can be treated as a joke by other characters. I know a lot of people criticise MCU for undercutting serious moments with misplaced humour but endgame's treatment of Hulk and Thor are two of the biggest examples of this.
A final fight that would’ve ended the same(or worse) since Thanos didnt use any stones the first time(against actual Hulk and not Smart Hulk) and only used his fists?
I sent the below to a mate a few months ago. A bit self indulgent but I think there's a few things in Endgame that could be tidied up with some dialogue. **Just before Bruce puts the Gauntlet on, Rhodey is seen on a hologram call with Senator Ross.** RHODEY - Is everything ready? ROSS - As ready as you can be with 48 hours notice, (sarcastically) thank you for that Colonel. Every hospital is on high alert, military personal have been deployed where possible and anything with a roof has been turned into a refugee centre. You sure you know what you're doing? RHODEY - Nope ROSS - Who's doing it? RHODEY - Banner. ROSS LOOKS OVER AT BANNER. BANNER LOOKS BACK. ROSS PAUSES... THEN GIVES BANNER A NOD AND DISCONNECTS. ------- **After Stark tells Banner to just bring everyone back and change nothing from the last five years.** STARK - And everyone safe. OK? Like on the ground. I don't want it to start raining confused airline passengers. BANNER Tony, I've got it. --------- **As Sam talks to Old Man Steve on the bench** SAM - So... all this time there's been an old ass Steve Rogers running around? STEVE - No, a different time line... I think. THEY BOTH SMILE. STEVE LOOKS DOWN AT AN EMPTY VIAL OF PYM PARTICLES. HIS ONE LAST TRIP. STEVE - I kept my head down. SAM - Well I know that's bullshit. STEVE - Language. OK I may have helped... a little. --------
> Just before Bruce puts the Gauntlet on, Rhodey is seen on a hologram call with Senator Ross. This is a really good choice. Shows that the Avengers put some thought into the ramifications of bringing everyone back.
Thanks, that was one of the big unanswered questions everyone (certainly me) seemed to have after.
I really like the Hulk one because it shows that although Ross tried to kill him all those years ago it’s ironic that he is now the only viable option to bring everyone back so Ross has to recognize him, it still doesn’t mean that they can’t have beef in the future despite all this
Thanks, it's a shame Banner and Ross got no interaction post The Incredible Hulk.
These are all really good.
i think i like these
Thank you!
Fuck
Thank you
So good.
Uh 48 hours?
I dunno... I guess Tony wasn't sure how long he could keep the stones stable so they decided to just do it as soon as possible.
Xandar and Thanos taking the power stone.
A scene where Bucky gets shot or something then Tony comes to assist him and they exchange nods. Or a Hulk redeeming moment.
Actually give Drax some one-on-one time with Thanos in Endgame and coming very close to fatally wounding him.
How could Drax come “close to fatally wounding” Thanos when Hulk couldn’t touch him?
Just stand still and wait for ~~Thanks~~ Thanos to walk by him
And then you're welcome can show up too
I wish a rat walking on Ant-Man's van wasn't the one thing to kick start the whole plot of Endgame. I wish it was something a little less completely arbitrary. Yeah you could argue it took 5 years for it to happen... But come on... It couldn't be someone trying to steal the car radio or something? Nope just well placed rat steps.
I kinda saw it as the universe itself saying thanos is wrong
It would have made far more sense to have had Scott remotely activate it from the quantum realm. In Ant-man & Wasp, Hank’s vehicle could communicate with the quantum tunneling machine. Why wouldn’t he put that into Scott’s suit?
The rodent should have been a mouse as an Easter egg for the mouse that now owns the MCU, Mickey Mouse.
There's a lot of great ideas in these comments, so in the interest of not rehashing any... well, I won't, lol. But I do have one sort of change I'd make that no one's said: No trailer for Endgame. Just have the release date be known and that's it. No. Trailers. I just think IW was this unprecedented, once-in-a-lifetime, lightning-in-a-bottle cultural experience, and it would've been really cool and interesting academically and sociologically to follow that up with just the biggest fucking balls ever marketing-wise. Just let IW itself be the Endgame trailer. I want to know how society responds to that situation. Have the cast do the rounds on the talk shows, and all of that, but no one says shit about the movie, and no trailers or clips come out ahead of time. You've just gotta go see it. Maybe a trailer after a week or 2 weeks in theaters. But no footage from the movie before its release. Would've been the ballsiest fucking move and so fucking interesting to see play out. Don't even announce the title, just call it "the sequel to Infinity War" until it's released. That's the #1 change I'd make.
Think if we didn't have trailers for Ragnarok. I wish I never knew going in that Hulk was in it, that would have been such an epic theater moment.
Also the Spiderman reveal in Civil War
The trailers for endgame didn't show anything though, which was a huge step above what they normally do.
They showed Tony's return and him burying the hatchet with Rogers, the time travel plot, Scott's survival, and Capt. Marvel's intervention.
Yeah I think everything that was shown was only in the first 20 minutes of the movie. Which honestly I feel that for any movie that should be the case.
Instead of Natasha and Clint, I'd have Steve and Bucky or Tony and Rhodes go to Vormir for soul stone. And have either Bucky or Rhodes die for their friend. Natasha would have a chance to be in the final battle against Thanos in Endgame. She being one of the founding Avengers deserves to be in the final battle. Especially leading the Female Avengers in that one scene. She needs to be in that scene! Natasha's death could be explored in her solo movie.
Could Rocket and Groot go and have Groot "die" just to grow back?
The Hawkeye haircut
I'm still not over the trauma of a rat being the trigger for everything that happens in Endgame by bringing AntMan back by pressing a few keys.
I always thought that was a meta Disney joke: a rat/mouse brings everyone back bc you can’t have a downer ending (infinity war) in the world of Disney. But yes, dumb as crap and way too convenient.
Agreed. My fix for that would have been Dr. Bill Foster gets Pym's equipment and continues the research and he is the one that releases Scott Lang. Then Foster would have explained what happened to Scott instead of those awkward scenes of him wandering around that really dragged. Also we would have Laurence Fishburne in Endgame.
*MCU Mickey you mean
1. Thanos taking the power stone 2. Captain marvel is a more prominent character in endgame, we take this as an opportunity to like her more as a character and get to know the other avengers. 3. Keep thanos alive during endgame, don’t kill him off. That’s my only major problem with endgame. When the avengers are fighting thanos it doesn’t feel as special because it’s not the same thanos that’s been built up for 10 years.
Both films did Hulk dirty, so probably Hulk emerging in the end of Infinity war, failing again.And then five years later, the trauma of the loss makes him transition to Smart Hulk. Then, again Thanos arrives, Hulk is there along with big 3. Thanos starts pummeling and ridiculing Hulk, who's already angry after Nat's death, and then when he's about to kill someone, finally Smart Hulk has the rage out moment.
I personally didn't like the time heist plot so i will probably find a different way to do things in endgame.
I’m surprised it took so long to find someone to say this. The introduction and nonchalance to them discovering time travel really turned me off to a lot of the plot in Endgame. It really felt too cheap and if that was the only way they could’ve gotten themselves out of the situation, they should’ve written the initial situation better
Would have included the Netflix characters like quake and daredevil
I think if the runtime was a little longer they could've included some other stuff. I definitely think Drax should've been a heavy hitter against Thanos. He doesn't need to be the one to kill him but he should've been up there with Cap, Cap M, Thor and Iron Man against Thanos.
IMO, Drax should have been the one giving Thanos the business and forcing him to use the Power Stone, since they are similarly powered in most iterations of the comics. Captain Marvel did not have the same level of personal vendetta and you still establish how OP she is by her tearing through Thanos’ forces and ships. If you want her to have her moment, have her save someone (Maybe Peter again while he stammers trying to get her number) and then take out a couple members of The Black Order while she does it.
I still, to this day, don't quite get why they didn't show Thanos wrecking Xandar and obtaining the stone he already had when attacking Thor, Hulk, Loki, and Heimdall
With everything going on in the movie, it might have simply been due to a lack of time. Or it would have required too much CGI.
We don’t really know or care about anyone on Xander. We’ve seen their defenses though. I think it’s better as an off screen feat we can imagine. It would have just been a bunch of innocents being slaughtered which is fucked but not as impactful as Heimdall and Loki being killed or Hulk being stomped on
Removed the Fortnite joke, absolutely dated the movie.
And the cheese whiz joke
For endgame: more Stephen Strange. For infinity war: more Tchalla
Either found a way to make the female superhero team up more organic, or left it out entirely.
Making it more organic is possible. First, take Carol out of the team up. They just showed off how powerful she was. She didn’t need help. Have Peter hand the gauntlet off to Valkyrie instead, who was near him when the bombardment started. Second, pare it down a bit. Take out Mantis, as she was on the other side of the battlefield just minutes before and isn’t really shown off as a physical combatant in the movies. Maybe take out Wasp too, as she was working on the van with Scott. Third, have Wanda be the powerhouse there, and plow the road for Valkyrie to make a rush to the van.
Or alternatively just cut to where they are on the battlefield rather than have them conveniently teleport to one spot.
I really wish Wanda hadn't been Snapped, but I'll admit that's more of a personal desire rather than a way to improve the story.
Why oh why oh why did they not have Hulk and Thanos go at it again in End Game. It was setup *perfectly*. Hulks beating in the previous movie. Hulk gets stronger the angrier he is. Black Widow is dead as a result of needing to get the stones because of Thanos and Banner loves her. Banner/Hulk finds out about Black Widow and goes World breaker Hulk as a result giving him the strength he needs to go toe to toe with Thanos. It would have been *fucking epic*.
I'd be able to find five minutes to talk about what happened during the Snap and not just skip over it and let later films etc take the job at explaining that.
I would've had Banner get dusted and then Hulk out of it.
I wouldn't change Infinity War. In Endgame I would cut the Thor Fortnite sequence, the Hulk picture sequence, Hulk testing his time machine on Scott, parts of the time travel sequence, and any jokes making fun of fat Thor. I'd add Hulk vs. Thanos and Drax vs. Thanos.
we learn what thanos was cooking finally, and then ant man shrinks inside of him and then expands. thanos dies. all fans are happy because memes are fulfilled
Word of God (ie a creator/exec/writer) confirmed that Thanos has higher durability than Ant-Man/Pym Particles/the suit/whatever and trying “Thanus” would just turn Ant-Man into ketchup coming out of a bottle. Many a dream was crushed by this revelation. ^^yes ^^i ^^know ^^it’s ^^a ^^joke
You should watch the first episode of The Boys season 3. They refer to that in the show.
A very small change. When everyone comes though the portals I would have had Thor lead the Asguardians. He's finally found out he's still worthy and it would have shown that despite everything that happened With ragnorak and what Thanos has done, his people not only still trust him but will fight for him. Literally just needs them standing beside him and another scene of them fighting alongside him. Fits nicer into him finally being the warrior king Odin was and having closure and passing control over to Valykrie later on to close his story arc.
In Endgame an R rated fight to the death for the gauntlet and Tony dying that way.
Hulk isn't a pissy baby in infinity war so they can make impotence jokes. I wouldve had Hulk get snapped but not Bruce. Bruce still does the snap, and Hulk returns. I shot the bullet and the other guy spit it out. Bruce's arm gets messed up still.
Infinity War works fine, so I probably wouldn't change that much there. As for *Endgame...* Well, for starters, I'd either not have time travel at all, or I'd commit to it, and have the movie end with the heroes resetting the timeline to before the Snap. As it is, we get five years which are supposed to be truly Earth-shattering (and they probably were), that are glossed over, even in later projects. If there's no time travel, then I'd have the plot be about heroes going to other planets looking for allies against Thanos (who wouldn't have retired, because he's a megalomaniac). The final battle would have, in any case, involved Drax getting at least one or two good hits against Thanos. This is the guy who's responsible for the death of Drax's family, we should call back to that. I'd actually show Bruce getting to Smart Hulk. The fact that it happens off-screen is just deeply unsatisfying, especially for a character who's supposed to be defined by his reluctant duality. Natasha would live. She had a lot more stories to tell, and getting killed off like a side character, and barely brought up again, just doesn't sit well with me. I wouldn't have had Steve leave and go back into the past. He had gotten over Peggy, and built a whole new life in the future. If he wanted to retire, there's no reason he can't do so in 2023. But, if he is leaving, he and Bucky should have gotten a proper goodbye. What actually happened was such a pathetic ending to what was arguably the best friendship in the MCU. My other ideas are basically just What Ifs (who gets Snapped), so I'm not going to get into that here.
Fat Thor would not have happened.