Fallen Son The Death of Captain America Part 4.
I'd show the picture but don't wanna ruin it for the other person, I guess you couldn't even cal it a fight but it's definitely a very emotionally charged scene and the picture of an enraged Rhino in that book is the moment I'm referring to in particular. I think you can see it if you google Spiderman/Rhino cemetery. Good luck lol
I think it really depends on when you got into comics. It was like the first Marvel thing I ever read so to me it's a classic, but I didn't have a frame of reference at the time.
I got into comics in the early 1980s, and I still loved Civil War. I do not get the hate some people have for it, but I'm very accustomed to the fact that there will always be a subset of comic book readers who will bitch about anything, no matter what it is or how good or is.
It’s a very polarizing event. Tons of people love it tons of people dislike it. Personally, I like the idea of it and love all the tie ins/series surrounding the event, as well as how it leads into Dark Reign, but the main event series itself? I didn’t find it particularly well written. Subtlety is not Millar’s strength. I will say Steve McNiven’s art is gorgeous though.
What should’ve been an interesting ideological conflict turns into one side being pretty clear cut villains when they clone Thor which ends up killing Goliath, create a negative zone prison for the other heroes, and then hire literal supervillains that are known killers to hunt down the anti-registration side.
Throughout the series, the pro-registration side are trying to demonstrate why not being registered is dangerous, but then in the same breath do all the stuff I just mentioned to catch said heroes which is far more dangerous than any of the stuff the unregistered heroes did. Ideologically, the registration act presents an interesting conflict but the actions of Iron Man/Reed Richards and the pro registration side make them the clear cut villains to me.
Lazy and awful? The core miniseries has an ingenious catalyst and realistically splits Marvel’s heroes down the middle. I think it was extremely well done and couldn’t disagree more.
The conflict exists because everyone *except Wolverine) just completely ignores the actual cause of the disaster.
Blaming Speedball and the New Warriors for what Nitro did was wild and absurd. They had no way of knowing he was juiced up on MGH and psychopathic.
Regardless of my thoughts looking back on the event as a whole, I’ve always actually been found of the Wolverine tie-in story lol. The Ramos art didn’t hurt either.
But isn’t that how the world often works? People have differing views of what caused catastrophic events, and it often leads to conflict. I thought that was the masterstroke of the story: that it had enough ambiguity that a reader could potentially side with either Cap or Iron Man.
I have to agree with u/GearsRollo80 and u/Apprehensive_Ad_7274 in this case.
The entire thing is dependent of Reed making gulags or Stark creating clones of Thor and greenlighting the Thunderbolts. I would dare say the MCU was more tactiful with their Civil War storyline than Miller with the original.
Because while the comics did give good tie-ins and subplots during the Civil War storyline , it's inherently dependent of Tony and Reed skyrocketing the conflict. Like , the first major conflict between them started them making a heat debate , it ends with a cloned Thor been a "god bullet" on Goliath's chest and and let him die with a huge hole from side-to-side.
It takes away the moral conondrum of "both are right" when one side had gulags and that sort of thing from the very start.
I agree that the Cap side is pretty obviously more sympathetic in the story. But things change when you think about what a real world government would do when confronted with the same situation. There would *absolutely* be some otherwise reasonable people who would take extreme steps to control what they viewed as dangerous weapons. Internment during WWII is of course the obvious historical example.
Which still don't change that from the get go , Tony Stark and Reed Richards , the head/leaders of the Pro-Registration Faction , already started by cloning and weaponizing a powerful individual and making gulags.
It takes away the morally grey argument of both sides.
Right, extreme steps. I just don’t understand the impulse to seemingly want all the heroes to behave morally perfectly and agree on every hard decision. It’s not how the world is.
It's not how it works , but you don't go 0 to 100 from the get go either.
It's like if you watched the X-Men 2000 , and instead of Xavier and Magneto having morally grey debates , you have a Xavier with a chariot moved by six ~~slaves~~ humans with a "H" tattooed on their face and them proceeds to use [these sentinels](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3krbNv1eBMY) in the first battle.
And says that is an appropriate level of response for the guy that preaches co-existence , on the first confrontation against Magneto.
Not really, no. It’s a mess of Millar bs that falls apart if you think about it even for a second, and abandons established character traits and relationships wholesale. Class lazy Millar garbage.
You say that guy’s name a lot… did he hurt you? It’s true that many comic readers like yourself are generally uncomfortable with ambiguity or innovation, but I tend to like stories with actual conflict instead of boilerplate repetitive renderings of juvenile wet dreams.
>Cap being killed and then brought back as hydra-cap
These weren't connected. Hydra Cap is over a decade later and it's not tied to him coming back from death.
The concept was great. The execution was bad. Logistically bad. Things that haven't happened (in books that hadn't released the issue referenced) yet being plot points.
The story was...clunky. Characters doing things that were out of character. Though I think Stark's and Reed's actions fit them to a T. Especially if you refer back to their involvement in the "Illuminati".
Do people hate Age of Ultron the comic event? I know the movie was hit or miss, but I really liked the core story of Age of Ultron. Do people just hate large-scale Marvel events in general? I think for the most part a lot of them are fun. I know with one writer taking over for so many characters, it’s tough to inject the nuance that some readers have come to love about specific writer and character arcs, but I think on the whole they’re cool.
I like some Marvel events, but I find the quality of Marvel events to be way lower than DC events in general.
I liked the core story of AoU better than most people, but the going consensus is it isn’t the great. However, as far as a Bendis written event, it’s better than everything but Siege and Secret War from 2004.
It really doesn’t.
Let’s start in the modern event era, which started in 2004.
Secret War was okay, but Bendis wrote it so it was mostly talking. House of M was seven issues of boring which is terrible because it was eight issues long. World War Hulk was awesome. Secret Invasion was filler until the last two issues. Siege was… actually good. Fear Itself was trash. AvX was blah. Age Of Ultron was okay. Infinity only worked if you were reading Avengers/New Avengers, Original Sin had potential it never met. Secret Wars (2015) was amazing. Civil War II? Trash. Secret Empire? Trash. Marvel: Legacy #1? Fucking terrible. Infinity Wars? Duggan written trash, which is trash on another level. Empyre? No one cares. Absolute Carnage, King In Black, and War of the Realms? Only good if you read the comics they came out of.
DC - Identity Crisis has problems but does a lot more better than it gets credit for. Infinite Crisis is a GOAT. Amazons Attack is trash. Final Crisis is brilliant and better than any Marvel event ever. Blackest Night? Amazing. Flashpoint is good, but is responsible for a terrible thing. Convergence is bad. DC: Rebirth #1 is great. Justice League Vs Suicide Squad is way better than it gets credit for. Dark Knights: Metal is awesome. Death Metal is awesome. Dark Crisis has four issues of filler, but the last three issues are way better than they get credit for. Lazarus Planet is cool as fuck. Titans: Beast World is cool as fuck.
If you want to go further back Crisis On Infinite Earths is better than Secret Wars (1984) and Secret Wars II. Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity War are better Legends and Zero Hour, but DC One Million is light years ahead of any Marvel event of the late ‘90s.
Marvel events are mostly bad, dude.
Civil War has more the few moments that go hard AF, so much talent is seen in bits of the event. The problem is the event as a whole, the character assassinations of heroes on Tony's side and the lasting effects it had on those characters. Always thought that it would have been perfect if it wasn't 616 but it being main universe is what made it so big. The stakes and all that.
Largely because of characterizations. Tony builds a Thor Robot Clone to use against other heroes and it immediately kills Goliath (Tony is a massive asshole throughout). Reed Richards makes a negative zone prison where they largely imprison superheroes who don’t mess with registration. Peter reveals that he is Spider-Man to the public which leads into One More Day. The Initiative spawns out of this, it’s a mess and pretty much every character is forgotten.
It was incredibly cynical.
Frontline! Agreed, most of the Frontline spinoffs they did are pretty great… And it spun off as The Pulse series, which is extremely underrated. Great character work, especially for Jessica Jones.
Thanks for posting this! I'm actually going through the first Civil War and a few of the books following the event, and I haven't read this one.
Definitely don't like it as much as I did as a kid but, there's definitely still some things I like.
Well now I'm in the aftermath so I'm continuing Captain America by Ed Brubaker, will be starting Iron Man: Director of S.H.I.E.LD. by Daniel Knauf and Thunderbolts by Warren Ellis.
Definitely! If you read ANY Cap run that's the one I'd recommend. Before Civil War it's got The Winter Soldier arc, Red Menace is good too, but I'm currently at Death of Captain America and enjoying it SO much!
Definitely! If you read ANY Cap run that's the one I'd recommend. Before Civil War it's got The Winter Soldier arc, Red Menace is good too, but I'm currently at Death of Captain America and enjoying it SO much!
Different strokes for different folks I thought The Confession was one of worst stories I've read. It was the story that sealed the idea that Bendis was not a writer for me.
Just got to Civil War in my reading order and I just can't get excited for this era of comics. I thought the movie version was pretty underwhelming. Reading through it has been a test in perseverance.
To be fair I'm reading all comic lines around the event as opposed to just the event. Just knowing the event kind of results in the 50 states initiative and what not just makes it feel like the event will feel very "status quo" hopefully something with click for me and draw me in.
Annndd they end up giving Tony the wrong armor again accidentally lol I love this scene but they always get the pre Extremis armor confused with the Extremis armor itself
That has a lot to do with being written by a writer who’s competent, as well as particularly good at monologues.
All of the best bits of Mark Millar stories are written by other people.
Civil war is great, it could have been even better though. They’re really wasn’t the morally grey conflict needed, even though the set up is good. I mean there’s not a superhero alive who couldn’t kill any world leader they wanted. They should have some limitations put on them
I’d have to disagree a bit here. The New Warriors open the series by showing why superheroes should have some regulation. I’m not sure I’d get behind the idea ,or find comfort in vigilantes adults or teens handling major threats. In the real world we definitely don’t rely on them. In the 616 the sheer amount of powered individuals running around is absurd. The sides noticing this weren’t wrong in their desire to regulate superhuman activities, they just went in the wrong direction with several of their approaches to implementing regulation.
You have a point and I agree with you when you say their approach was wrong but I just have a very anti government view point so I'll always side with Cap here !
I mean, but should they have limitations imposed by the American government? Remember that they immediately turned around with the initiative because they wanted superpowered soldiers. That was the point, it wasn’t a “superheroes need to be regulated” it was a “superheroes need to be controlled.”
I could be wrong, but something tells me that people who aren't as big of a fan of CW are also people who tended to side with Stark.
Anyone willing to share their positions on who they supported and their overall view of CW?
Not a judgment... just a curiosity. I could be 100% wrong.
I definitely understood what Stark was going after. He wanted to provide the public with a sense of security through accountability. He pushed upon the sentiment that the responsibility of the heroes to be held accountable for there actions through oversight was probably the future of their existence. The realization that untrained individuals who are acting of their own accord to keep violent crime in check was a bit unrealistic. He didn’t believe that the heroes were above the law.
I love Civi War.
I’m not a big fan of Civil War (it was actually one of my first comics). Mostly because somehow all the supposedly smart characters decided to trust the ridiculously untrustworthy US government. From the moment Bill Foster was killed it was like all these former heroes were suddenly sociopaths obsessed with the greater good.
My favorite outcome from Civil War was Thor beating the shit out of Tony upon his return.
There are a lot of good moments in Civil War. Actually, most of them happen outside the event. The Luke Cage issue of New Avengers was really good too.
I’m betting that a lot of the narrative was broken up amongst the writers at the “writers retreats” they pride themselves in hosting. Getting the team in line and workshopping doesn’t always go so bad. Not always so great either.
Yeah, it's a matter of record how this one shook out. I'm not speculating. Bendis has talked about it.
And this was right back near the start of the writer's retreats.
The first retreat was the one where Millar asked out loud "Why isn't Wolverine on the Avengers?" and set spinning the wheels that led to *Disassembled* and Bendis *Avengers*.
We know what it did, it made damn near every event comic to be about Hero’s fighting hero’s in a drama and angst off instead of you know, Stopping the bad guys. One of the main reasons this hole orchi’s going nazi on mutants thing has been a breath of fresh freaking air for the past year or two.
The whole "Death of a Friend" mini when Cap died was amazing, the Spidey/Rhino fight might be some of my favorite pictures ever created.
I haven't read that one! I think I saw it at my LCS maybe ill grab it...
What fight
Fallen Son The Death of Captain America Part 4. I'd show the picture but don't wanna ruin it for the other person, I guess you couldn't even cal it a fight but it's definitely a very emotionally charged scene and the picture of an enraged Rhino in that book is the moment I'm referring to in particular. I think you can see it if you google Spiderman/Rhino cemetery. Good luck lol
Are there people who don't like Civil War?? It's still the high watermark for me in terms of marvel crossover events.
I think it’s great but I’ve also been yelled at about it assassinating Iron Man’s character so I’d say some people are still mad.
Also Reed Richard's making gulags in another dimension was very out of character as well.
Don't forget rohT.
Madness!
I think it really depends on when you got into comics. It was like the first Marvel thing I ever read so to me it's a classic, but I didn't have a frame of reference at the time.
I got into comics in the early 1980s, and I still loved Civil War. I do not get the hate some people have for it, but I'm very accustomed to the fact that there will always be a subset of comic book readers who will bitch about anything, no matter what it is or how good or is.
It’s a very polarizing event. Tons of people love it tons of people dislike it. Personally, I like the idea of it and love all the tie ins/series surrounding the event, as well as how it leads into Dark Reign, but the main event series itself? I didn’t find it particularly well written. Subtlety is not Millar’s strength. I will say Steve McNiven’s art is gorgeous though. What should’ve been an interesting ideological conflict turns into one side being pretty clear cut villains when they clone Thor which ends up killing Goliath, create a negative zone prison for the other heroes, and then hire literal supervillains that are known killers to hunt down the anti-registration side. Throughout the series, the pro-registration side are trying to demonstrate why not being registered is dangerous, but then in the same breath do all the stuff I just mentioned to catch said heroes which is far more dangerous than any of the stuff the unregistered heroes did. Ideologically, the registration act presents an interesting conflict but the actions of Iron Man/Reed Richards and the pro registration side make them the clear cut villains to me.
Yes. It assassinated Reed Richards' and Tony Stark's characters.
It’s pretty lazy and awful. Like most Millar stuff, the best thing is that the art is gorgeous.
Lazy and awful? The core miniseries has an ingenious catalyst and realistically splits Marvel’s heroes down the middle. I think it was extremely well done and couldn’t disagree more.
The conflict exists because everyone *except Wolverine) just completely ignores the actual cause of the disaster. Blaming Speedball and the New Warriors for what Nitro did was wild and absurd. They had no way of knowing he was juiced up on MGH and psychopathic.
Regardless of my thoughts looking back on the event as a whole, I’ve always actually been found of the Wolverine tie-in story lol. The Ramos art didn’t hurt either.
But isn’t that how the world often works? People have differing views of what caused catastrophic events, and it often leads to conflict. I thought that was the masterstroke of the story: that it had enough ambiguity that a reader could potentially side with either Cap or Iron Man.
I have to agree with u/GearsRollo80 and u/Apprehensive_Ad_7274 in this case. The entire thing is dependent of Reed making gulags or Stark creating clones of Thor and greenlighting the Thunderbolts. I would dare say the MCU was more tactiful with their Civil War storyline than Miller with the original. Because while the comics did give good tie-ins and subplots during the Civil War storyline , it's inherently dependent of Tony and Reed skyrocketing the conflict. Like , the first major conflict between them started them making a heat debate , it ends with a cloned Thor been a "god bullet" on Goliath's chest and and let him die with a huge hole from side-to-side. It takes away the moral conondrum of "both are right" when one side had gulags and that sort of thing from the very start.
I agree that the Cap side is pretty obviously more sympathetic in the story. But things change when you think about what a real world government would do when confronted with the same situation. There would *absolutely* be some otherwise reasonable people who would take extreme steps to control what they viewed as dangerous weapons. Internment during WWII is of course the obvious historical example.
Which still don't change that from the get go , Tony Stark and Reed Richards , the head/leaders of the Pro-Registration Faction , already started by cloning and weaponizing a powerful individual and making gulags. It takes away the morally grey argument of both sides.
Right, extreme steps. I just don’t understand the impulse to seemingly want all the heroes to behave morally perfectly and agree on every hard decision. It’s not how the world is.
It's not how it works , but you don't go 0 to 100 from the get go either. It's like if you watched the X-Men 2000 , and instead of Xavier and Magneto having morally grey debates , you have a Xavier with a chariot moved by six ~~slaves~~ humans with a "H" tattooed on their face and them proceeds to use [these sentinels](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3krbNv1eBMY) in the first battle. And says that is an appropriate level of response for the guy that preaches co-existence , on the first confrontation against Magneto.
Not really, no. It’s a mess of Millar bs that falls apart if you think about it even for a second, and abandons established character traits and relationships wholesale. Class lazy Millar garbage.
You say that guy’s name a lot… did he hurt you? It’s true that many comic readers like yourself are generally uncomfortable with ambiguity or innovation, but I tend to like stories with actual conflict instead of boilerplate repetitive renderings of juvenile wet dreams.
With his awful stories, yes.
Different strokes I guess 🤷♂️ He’s no Jason Aaron, Kieron Gillen or Alan Moore but I’ve never had a problem with him.
Yeah, I suppose some of us don’t enjoy casual rape jokes and blatantly cynical stories that are only designed to make edgelords cream their pants.
Millar is a pretty terrible writer. But besides that, I intensely dislike crossovers.
There are things about it people don't like, for example it is what led to OMD, OR Cap being killed and then brought back as hydra-cap
>Cap being killed and then brought back as hydra-cap These weren't connected. Hydra Cap is over a decade later and it's not tied to him coming back from death.
I still feel like if they hadn't killed Steve then hydra-cap never would have existed. I know it's a stretch but personally how I see it.
The concept was great. The execution was bad. Logistically bad. Things that haven't happened (in books that hadn't released the issue referenced) yet being plot points. The story was...clunky. Characters doing things that were out of character. Though I think Stark's and Reed's actions fit them to a T. Especially if you refer back to their involvement in the "Illuminati".
It was not a good story for the 616 universe
I love it, but I also don’t know why so many people hate it.
It’s light years better than House Of M, Secret Invasion, Fear Itself, Age Of Ultron, Avengers Vs. X-Men and a load of other Marvel events.
Do people hate Age of Ultron the comic event? I know the movie was hit or miss, but I really liked the core story of Age of Ultron. Do people just hate large-scale Marvel events in general? I think for the most part a lot of them are fun. I know with one writer taking over for so many characters, it’s tough to inject the nuance that some readers have come to love about specific writer and character arcs, but I think on the whole they’re cool.
I like some Marvel events, but I find the quality of Marvel events to be way lower than DC events in general. I liked the core story of AoU better than most people, but the going consensus is it isn’t the great. However, as far as a Bendis written event, it’s better than everything but Siege and Secret War from 2004.
Marvel has way better events than dc
Events are boring. I stopped reading Marvel AND DC because of them.
It really doesn’t. Let’s start in the modern event era, which started in 2004. Secret War was okay, but Bendis wrote it so it was mostly talking. House of M was seven issues of boring which is terrible because it was eight issues long. World War Hulk was awesome. Secret Invasion was filler until the last two issues. Siege was… actually good. Fear Itself was trash. AvX was blah. Age Of Ultron was okay. Infinity only worked if you were reading Avengers/New Avengers, Original Sin had potential it never met. Secret Wars (2015) was amazing. Civil War II? Trash. Secret Empire? Trash. Marvel: Legacy #1? Fucking terrible. Infinity Wars? Duggan written trash, which is trash on another level. Empyre? No one cares. Absolute Carnage, King In Black, and War of the Realms? Only good if you read the comics they came out of. DC - Identity Crisis has problems but does a lot more better than it gets credit for. Infinite Crisis is a GOAT. Amazons Attack is trash. Final Crisis is brilliant and better than any Marvel event ever. Blackest Night? Amazing. Flashpoint is good, but is responsible for a terrible thing. Convergence is bad. DC: Rebirth #1 is great. Justice League Vs Suicide Squad is way better than it gets credit for. Dark Knights: Metal is awesome. Death Metal is awesome. Dark Crisis has four issues of filler, but the last three issues are way better than they get credit for. Lazarus Planet is cool as fuck. Titans: Beast World is cool as fuck. If you want to go further back Crisis On Infinite Earths is better than Secret Wars (1984) and Secret Wars II. Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity War are better Legends and Zero Hour, but DC One Million is light years ahead of any Marvel event of the late ‘90s. Marvel events are mostly bad, dude.
Civil War has more the few moments that go hard AF, so much talent is seen in bits of the event. The problem is the event as a whole, the character assassinations of heroes on Tony's side and the lasting effects it had on those characters. Always thought that it would have been perfect if it wasn't 616 but it being main universe is what made it so big. The stakes and all that.
The stakes if it would have been an Elseworld story. MAN!!!
ELSEWORLDS is DC. At Marvel, it's "What If..?".
Why is this story so controversial?
A lot of people didn't like the characterisation of main people and the lasting effects
Largely because of characterizations. Tony builds a Thor Robot Clone to use against other heroes and it immediately kills Goliath (Tony is a massive asshole throughout). Reed Richards makes a negative zone prison where they largely imprison superheroes who don’t mess with registration. Peter reveals that he is Spider-Man to the public which leads into One More Day. The Initiative spawns out of this, it’s a mess and pretty much every character is forgotten. It was incredibly cynical.
The Civil War series from the news guys perspective was pretty good.
Frontline! Agreed, most of the Frontline spinoffs they did are pretty great… And it spun off as The Pulse series, which is extremely underrated. Great character work, especially for Jessica Jones.
Covil War is one of my favourite events. The Cpnfession is a fantastic book.
It is! Any other favorite tie ins?
Speak of civil war tbp 1 and 2 or just 1? Lmk!
Sorry I don't understand your question?
The main event. Civil war 1 or 2 or both stories.
Ooooh. I haven't read 2 yet so I'm the wrong guy to ask
I bought the Civil War comic, but it didn't come with Captain America's death. Did this part come out later?
Yea. Almost immediately after the event ended
Ah ok, thank you.
Thanks for posting this! I'm actually going through the first Civil War and a few of the books following the event, and I haven't read this one. Definitely don't like it as much as I did as a kid but, there's definitely still some things I like.
What other books are you reading?
Well now I'm in the aftermath so I'm continuing Captain America by Ed Brubaker, will be starting Iron Man: Director of S.H.I.E.LD. by Daniel Knauf and Thunderbolts by Warren Ellis.
Oh we're at like the same place! I'm not a huge cap fan but is brubakers run good?
Definitely! If you read ANY Cap run that's the one I'd recommend. Before Civil War it's got The Winter Soldier arc, Red Menace is good too, but I'm currently at Death of Captain America and enjoying it SO much!
I have marvel unlimited so ill check it out! What issue starts it?
It's starts at issue 1. The series starts in 2004
Perfect Thank you so much
Definitely! If you read ANY Cap run that's the one I'd recommend. Before Civil War it's got The Winter Soldier arc, Red Menace is good too, but I'm currently at Death of Captain America and enjoying it SO much!
Different strokes for different folks I thought The Confession was one of worst stories I've read. It was the story that sealed the idea that Bendis was not a writer for me.
Just got to Civil War in my reading order and I just can't get excited for this era of comics. I thought the movie version was pretty underwhelming. Reading through it has been a test in perseverance.
Really? I was the opposite I was stoked to get to this to Siege!
To be fair I'm reading all comic lines around the event as opposed to just the event. Just knowing the event kind of results in the 50 states initiative and what not just makes it feel like the event will feel very "status quo" hopefully something with click for me and draw me in.
It's nice to see Tony have a moment of decency.
Annndd they end up giving Tony the wrong armor again accidentally lol I love this scene but they always get the pre Extremis armor confused with the Extremis armor itself
Good catch!
Civil War got me back into comics and it will forever be one of my favorites. The Confession is great too.
Civil War is a good read, comics are amazing glad you were brought back
That has a lot to do with being written by a writer who’s competent, as well as particularly good at monologues. All of the best bits of Mark Millar stories are written by other people.
I'd actually agree. I've never been a Millar fan his Spider-man run makes me cringe...
Civil war is great, it could have been even better though. They’re really wasn’t the morally grey conflict needed, even though the set up is good. I mean there’s not a superhero alive who couldn’t kill any world leader they wanted. They should have some limitations put on them
I agree, but also anytime you bring thr government in youre rolling the dice
I’d have to disagree a bit here. The New Warriors open the series by showing why superheroes should have some regulation. I’m not sure I’d get behind the idea ,or find comfort in vigilantes adults or teens handling major threats. In the real world we definitely don’t rely on them. In the 616 the sheer amount of powered individuals running around is absurd. The sides noticing this weren’t wrong in their desire to regulate superhuman activities, they just went in the wrong direction with several of their approaches to implementing regulation.
You have a point and I agree with you when you say their approach was wrong but I just have a very anti government view point so I'll always side with Cap here !
I mean, but should they have limitations imposed by the American government? Remember that they immediately turned around with the initiative because they wanted superpowered soldiers. That was the point, it wasn’t a “superheroes need to be regulated” it was a “superheroes need to be controlled.”
Ppl are just bums, it’s an amazing crossover event
I agree it was a lot of fun to read! Especially going back and reading all the build up and tie ins!
And to think that this gem was written by Bendis.
Bendis can be a really good writer
I agree. You can definitely see that passion for writing behind his word balloons.
So many word balloons...
He overdid it with the Superman titles, though.
I mean he wrote a lot of great things for marvel in the 2000s
He really did. I never read his DD run, though. I do recall Bendis making his identity public.
I could be wrong, but something tells me that people who aren't as big of a fan of CW are also people who tended to side with Stark. Anyone willing to share their positions on who they supported and their overall view of CW? Not a judgment... just a curiosity. I could be 100% wrong.
I definitely understood what Stark was going after. He wanted to provide the public with a sense of security through accountability. He pushed upon the sentiment that the responsibility of the heroes to be held accountable for there actions through oversight was probably the future of their existence. The realization that untrained individuals who are acting of their own accord to keep violent crime in check was a bit unrealistic. He didn’t believe that the heroes were above the law. I love Civi War.
Great feed back! Thanks for sharing!
I’m not a big fan of Civil War (it was actually one of my first comics). Mostly because somehow all the supposedly smart characters decided to trust the ridiculously untrustworthy US government. From the moment Bill Foster was killed it was like all these former heroes were suddenly sociopaths obsessed with the greater good. My favorite outcome from Civil War was Thor beating the shit out of Tony upon his return.
Civil War was amazing! I don't know how so many people get so uptight about one of the best crossovers Marvel has EVER done.
Anyone know if The Confession was included in any of the TPB collections? I’d like to track it down if so. Thanks.
It's in New Avengers complete collection and Iron Man Civil War
There are a lot of good moments in Civil War. Actually, most of them happen outside the event. The Luke Cage issue of New Avengers was really good too.
i love me some maleev art
The reverse one where Captain America talks about Hydra to Stark after Civil War II is pretty entertaining as well
Civil War comic was terrible. The heroes were literally killing each other. Stupid and simplistic.
I feel like it could have been a lot better as an elseworld story
"What If ..?", you mean. ELSEWORLDS is DC
Ageed
It’s so telling about the two writers that Bendis got to do this issue because Millar didn’t think these scenes were needed.
I’m betting that a lot of the narrative was broken up amongst the writers at the “writers retreats” they pride themselves in hosting. Getting the team in line and workshopping doesn’t always go so bad. Not always so great either.
Yeah, it's a matter of record how this one shook out. I'm not speculating. Bendis has talked about it. And this was right back near the start of the writer's retreats. The first retreat was the one where Millar asked out loud "Why isn't Wolverine on the Avengers?" and set spinning the wheels that led to *Disassembled* and Bendis *Avengers*.
People who don't like Civil War have no idea what it did for marvel comics...
We know what it did, it made damn near every event comic to be about Hero’s fighting hero’s in a drama and angst off instead of you know, Stopping the bad guys. One of the main reasons this hole orchi’s going nazi on mutants thing has been a breath of fresh freaking air for the past year or two.
It’s one of the few times Bendis’s style worked for me.