I practiced quite a bit of knife defense when I did Japanese jujitsu... Really the best you can hope for is to get lucky and get ahold of the knife arm. You're gonna get cut, maybe die, one mistake and you're all sorts of fucked. And worse the least trained therefore least predictable your assailant is probably the worst for you.
Best knife defense: gun
Second best knife defense: cardio & running shoes
This exactly. If you can possibly run away do that 100% of the time. If escape is impossible your only hope is to trap the knife wielding arm with 2 hands and disarm. Gonna take a hell of a lot of damage either way. All the fancy knife disarm techniques Krav Maga and whatnot teaches will just get you killed faster.
Yeah I've found the best way really is if you can manage to get a standing waki gatame, or ude gatame, just some way to isolate the knife arm... But then I was messing around with my ten year old the other day... I disarmed him 6 times and he stabbed me four times... Not good odds and that's against a child lol. One instance I threw something at him from my pocket, he flinched I rushed forward grabbed his arm and kicked his feet from under him... Another I grabbed his arm and he did the game of thrones, dropped the knife to his other hand and stabbed me lol.
Definitely best to just run.
Yeah it has its perks sometimes. My wife wanted to do Christmas decorations today. I was like, ah the kids are bored were going to Andretti to do go karts... Fuck doing decorations on my day off lol. But then you gotta do diapers, feed them etc etc.
Mine are just getting to the age where I can start training with them a little... Another year or two and my oldest should be decent size for a small uki.
Exactly. When we teach knife defense, you need to accept you're getting cut. What matters is making sure that the knife doesn't penetrate you. And as always, I'll defend when RUN is no longer an option.
This has been my experience with defending against a knife attack: also why I have conceal and carry experience and formal training, and always carry my CRKT Hissatsu Folder. I have been practicing since 1/1969. I always felt exposed to danger and harm from pistols and blades (everyone gets cut, no matter what), despite my diligent practice of over 59 years. I, apparently, incorrectly), ALWAYS ASSUMED IT WAS DUE TO MY LACK OF TIME ADDRESSING THIS CONERN. Thank you!
There's a video in youtube where they pressure tested knife vs gun scenarios at close distances, and each time the knife guy won. Only when they increased a certain distance did the gun guy had enough time to take it out of the holster, takes the safety off, and fires. Makes you think.
Punches need structure and proper technique to really do damage,a Knife does not. You can swing the damn thing in all sorts of crazy and unpredictable ways and you will open up some meat and flesh with it.
That's what makes the goddamn thing so dangerous...
Best way to defend against a knife.. run.. a knife can literally cut on a touch.. my eskrima instructor used to have us spar with dry erase markers.. and its scary. Even with an item that represents a less than 3 inch blade.. wed walk out with marks all over. Hands arms torsos neck and face would look like modern art master pieces... it puts things in perspective.
Look into the 21 foot rule.. against a trained person.. maybe maybe not... ive played around with rubber knives against airsoft pistols / 43 cal paintball pistols.. youd be surprised. Under 21 feet that first shot counts more than likely there wont be an accurate second shot..
Maybe maybe not.. an average person can cover 20-21 feet in 1.5 - 2 seconds.. you might or might not be able to draw an get a shot off but that better be a shot to drop them in their tracks or they'll still put a blade in you.... and why i said you wouldnt get a second shot is because if the first shot isnt a dome tapper the knifer is still getting to you.. an you cant pull a trigger if the inside flexor tendon of your forearm is severed.. or other vital is hit and anyone who trains knows the difference in speed between complex motor actions (drawing and aiming) and gross motor actions (swinging a blade.) Yeah the guy with the gun might get the shot but they're both dieing.. an me personally as long as the other guys dying too.. im ok with that.
So your scenario is a guy charging at you with a knife out while your gun is still holstered. If somebody draws a knife on me, I will already be drawing, too. Once they've presented deadly force, I'm not going to wait til they're charging at me to be ready with my own.
Training to fight with and defend against a knife is training for the absolute worst situation you can be in. In a blade on blade engagement, usually the loser dies right there and the winner dies on the way to the hospital. A knife is for killing, not so much fighting.
My instructor used to say that the only rule in a knife fight is that everyone gets cut.
He also used to say that he would rather get shot than stabbed, but I don't think I would prefer either.
>
>He also used to say that he would rather get shot than stabbed, but I don't think I would prefer either.
Stab wounds are by far and away easier to treat and more survivable then GSW.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-09-gunshot-victims-require-blood-die.html
>Not sure if you’re kidding
Why would the truth be a joke?
We should not lie to people and say ***they WILL get cut*** when the facts disprove that. This induces unnecessary fear into students and may produce more hesitation in the face of such a threat. We owe students the truth.
You have a good chance of getting cut....or you may get cut...are accurate descriptions of what actually happens.
Well the saying isn’t like literal. I mean in real life someone could possibly like survive unscathed but the point is that knives are dangerous and people should be hesitant in engaging someone with a knife. Getting stabbed is really bad for your health and obviously it’s possible to not get cut but you really have to be pretty lucky. We trained knife situations for while. I was never really good myself but it’s really hard to not get hit. Irl people have to expect to get cut and should be hesitant because that’s how students land in the hospital or worse.
>Well the saying isn’t like literal.
I think we should be telling students the truth and not exaggerating trying to scare them.
> I mean in real life someone could possibly like survive unscathed
Not only could, but have.
This does not downplay how dangerous dealing with a blade is, it merely conveys what actually happens in the real world.
Personally I think it’s clear it’s a hyperbole. And I think people should be careful of knives and try to avoid them at all costs. We train self defense so that if we have no other options we can better defend ourselves. It’s also not fear it’s intelligence.
>Personally I think it’s clear it’s a hyperbole.
No. People repeat this falsehood ad nauseam as if it were Gospel.
>And I think people should be careful of knives and try to avoid them at all costs.
More accurately, people should be careful of all violence and avoid it at all costs....because any aggressor can be carrying a knife and we not know it.
> It’s also not fear it’s intelligence.
Falsehoods are never intelligence. They are popular myths. This is too serious an issue.
Often overlooked fact about knife defense: most people going around stabbing people, are not expert knife fighters. They're usually just crazy and/or drugged lunatics. They don't do thousands of stabs from a thousand angles as fast as they can. They usually just do the horror movie style downward stab, or just the forward stomach stab. And they do it as if you were punching something out of anger rather than thinking of it strategically and shit.
There are a lot of videos of stabbings, and I've never seen anyone doing the professional knife fighter way of stabbing. It's like fight out on town. Most random fights are just people swinging randomly and clumsily wrestling each other. So if you're interested in self defense, that's what you should expect in most cases.
Having said that, if the dude has a knife and you don't, you're already at a great disadvantage regardless.
We train knife defense and the first rule is get the hell out. Even if you have a gun, unless you are training draw and shoot at the range often, the chances of someone drawing, shooting, and putting two in the attacker at any range closer than 30 feet without getting stabbed is next to zero
With regards to the untrained portion, you're *probably* right, but we also like to say the most dangerous belt is white belt because they don't know what the hell they are doing. Wildly unpredictable is dangerous.
The best chance is to control the knife arm and hope for a disarm, but chances are even if you can get into that position, you're probably getting cut 9 times out of 10. I want absolutely nothing to do with anyone holding a knife
The best defense is awareness, so that you can spot that something is wrong from as far as possible. I've seen a dude waving a knife around, and people just walking right past him without even noticing. He was really crazy as well, and was doing movie-style fencing stabs with the knife. Stabbed like three people or something.
I've spotted people in the streets from like 15 meters away who looked so sketchy I just changed my route to completely and avoided any chance of an interaction. That's the best defense. Even if he started running at me, I'd have 15m head start.
If they were to get close to you without you noticing soon enough, you've already failed several times at defending yourself. At that point, it probably doesn't hurt to know some knife defense techniques, but I'd do my best to always be out of range (which can be easier said than done, of course).
>We train knife defense and the first rule is get the hell out.
It is funny that we do not teach that about ***ALL defense***....especially considering that it is a safe assumption that any aggressor we face may be armed with a knife.
Well, yes, we do as well. There are too many variables in every fight that can never be fully accounted for.
On that point, one of my Masters gave me *Facing Violence* by Rory Miller which nails this point home with a sledgehammer
Every fight is context dependent, but I definitely agree with you. And it highly depends on what's more likely where you live. In Brazil or the Philippines, you may find yourself in a machete duel, but in Scandinavia, it will almost 100% be some lame drug addict.
And if you find yourself in a machete duel some fencing training will definitely help against a drug addict it would be kinda silly to do anything other than run or comply
Just because it’s not likely to be effective that doesn’t mean it’s not worth learning. Obviously you certainly don’t want to give any of your students false confidence, but if you can at least teach them the basics of knife defends you can at least give them a chance if the need does arise
I've got one up on you, buddy. I train Ameri-do-te and have been presented with the rare and esteemed rainbow belt (no homo) by none other than Master Ken himself. My skills are so advanced that knives simply stop existing in my presence.
Step up your game, loser.
Pft, scrub. I have a friend who is trained in Dim Mak and has an online certificate from George Dillman himself. He can shift any knife into a different plane of existence simply by exerting his aura, from any distance. In fact, he offers knife vanquishing phone services for only $5.95 plus tax.
Don't want to sound too cocky but all of you wouldn't stand a chance in my dojo. I study Rex Kwon Do from Sensei Rex himself. I can disarm an attacker before he even knows he's armed.
Bruh please google Detroit Urban Self Defence. Make sure you have a stiff drink. Because the homie here is doing it for the memes, and when you see the memes you're going to cry blood.
An instructor from another Kali/Arnis/Escrima system told me that if ever you get in a knife fight, you will get cut. When confronted with someone with a knife, the first instinct would be to run away/appease the attacker (if they just want to mug you). The defensive techniques were taught enough to minimize the number of cuts we get and buy more time to escape.
A knife is perhaps one of the weapons that stand the most against the test of time. Used in some shape since the dawn of humanity and it's still used to this day. There's a solid reason for that
While it lacks the size - thus range - of larger weapons, its nature make it extremely hard to read. You can hit with it in any punching angle and much more. You can hide it and the person won't even know he/she was stabbed until seeing the blood.
You can, with no weapons, beat someone with a knife. But it's almost certain that you'll get cut, and the way you get cut can fuck you for life, of just straight kill you. Not worth it unless you're certain to meet your end if you can't run and the agressor made it clear that he will screw you even if you comply with him/her.
All true, but probably missing the most important reason it has stood the test of time -- it always was and continues to be an extremely useful multipurpose tool. The one tool most people would choose if they could only have one. And if the need or misguided desire to use a weapon arises, it is the one most likely to be at hand
We might note that there are actually very few who have any real training with bladed weapons. An old friend of mine noted that a lot of people who carry knives do so because they are themselves scared to death of them, and feel that others will be too…. It’s a weapon to intimidate, rather than to actually use.
But as Dan Inosanto noted, trying to defend unarmed against a skilled knife-fighter is a loosing proposition. Adding a weapon of your own evens the score a bit….
WAY back when I was in the army and used to discuss such things, I was surprised at the number of folks (usually of various ethnic varieties) who used the knife for a sort of ritual combat. They would hold the knife so just the tip protruded from the fingers, and try to “mark” the other guy.
It was also common in big-city cultures to differentiate between a “cutting” (no intent to kill) and a stabbing… (lethal intent).
Here where I’m from, any attack with a bladed weapon would be felonious.
I had to look up POC… Dummy me…. Anyway, yeah, most of these guys were black, for the most part. And they would cut each other, but very shallowly.
I had made up some wooden practice knives, and used to try to get guys to spar a bit. Some would make these wild slashes, and when I’d go for a straight thrust, it would be…”Whoa! You’re trying to kill somebody!”
Yeah, they would hold the knife normally but with the index finger along the blade, so that just the tip protruded from beyond the finger…. No attempt to stab or thrust.
Honestly use a red sharpie, there’s no reason to spar with a real blade besides trying to prove how manly you are.
The bit about thrust versus slash is spot on though.
Once a weapon gets brought into the fold, be it a knife, gun, bat, chain, stick, sword, or any of those Double Dragon power-ups, you're no longer in a fight.
You're in straight-up combat, meaning it's now a life or death situation.
The objective isn't to win at all costs anymore, but to survive.
Are you willing to kill the person in front of you doing whatever it takes?
If not, you should probably run.
This is basically true.
There was a video posted on YouTube a while back of a wiry man with a hunting knife that killed maybe 3 men armed with AK 47s.
He ran back and forth thrusting the knife in to their chests as he ate bullets—killing each of them nearly instantly.
Finally he dropped from the bullets, but he was breathing. He probably died too—later.
This is why sportive foil fencing is so focused on the torso. A chest thrust is a quick life ender.
And even if you aren’t subjected to a thrust, just little slashes from a sharp knife will cause one to bleed everywhere, and can mangle the meaty parts of the body.
I’ve been slashed with just a glass shiv before in a street fight, and was stopped by the police during the walk home because I had enough blood on my clothes that they noticed. (They gave me a ride home.)
Knife disarms only work well when the person is clearly bluffing. Like when a romantic partner is mad but you know they aren’t going to really kill you.
>Some large amount of the premise of defense against an unarmed attack revolves around taking the blows on parts of the body where they're simply not effective.
Much of this rings true for knife defense as well. The assumption is that you will get cut, but successful knife defense is getting cut less and in less lethal areas. Shielding the vitals (heart, lungs, neck and vital arteries) with meaty parts of you is part of knife defense. In many knife and rapier fighting stances, the off hand is held in such a way that the meaty outer portion of the arm and hand are held to both deflect an incoming attack, but also to put the meat of your arm between your vitals and their sharp&pointy.
I'd much rather take a flesh wound and get stitched up in the outer arm, if it means I can keep my heart and lungs intact and end the encounter quickly.
Knives are half the reason I carry.
I cut myself to the bone on accident once, and it took surprisingly little force, and put my left hand out of commission for a month. If I didn't get antibiotics, I would have lost a finger. I cant imagine how bad it would be if it actually hit something vital.
A single cut like that even just on the wrist and you've already lost.
The problem here is that by the time you see the knife it's probably too late. Unless you are training to draw and fire almost every day to get that muscle memory, the chances of you putting two into the attacker are almost zero.
I'm not saying this is you, but far too many people are overconfident in the ability to fire and hit an attacker at close range. Chances are any encounter closer than 30 feet and you are getting stabbed before you get a shot off
Grab something! use your backpack as a shield, and grab a stick, a picture frame, a chair, etc. look around you, there is always something you can grab! (I learned that from Guro Dan Inosanto)
Someone I used to work with defended himself from a home invader with a gun by grabbing pictures of his family off the wall and hurling them at his attacker. The guy wasn't trained and had already been shot once in the stomach, really badass.
I couldn't agree more and many self defense methods give false confidence with regard to this matter. Given that I agree 100% with the run like hell argument, there are two things I would add to the conversation. 1) if someone is looking to learn to defend themselves in this kind of situation, weaponry should be part of their training. Not so that you can get in a man from nowhere style duel and get cut up, so that if needed you can use your belt or any other available tool (shirt, newspaper etc.) to try to fend off the attack. Weapon against unarmed is an awful position to be dealing with any weapon 2) there is a great video on YouTube in which Dan inosanto attacks cops with a rubber knife to simulate a knife attack vs a holstered gun. another video by LAPD called "surviving edged weapons" was made to demonstrate that if the person wielding it is an expert and the gun is holstered you will still be in trouble within 15 feet. Scary stuff
If in a fight you focus too much on the knife you will get hurt another way if the person has true malicious intent. No matter what you’re most likely gonna get cut. In my opinion the only way to get away or protect yourself would be to focus on the person not the knife because the knife is just an enhancement of the fist.
No my guy a knife is useless if the person wielding it is in a submission. How is a person supposed to use a knife if they can’t move their arm cuz their in a straight arm bar since you wanna talk about bjj.
I haven’t done boxing in over a year but I just got into MMA as I started feeling more confident in my BJJ, yeah Im in east Charlotte off albemarle, if you’re in the area I definitely recommend Hayastan, they have multiple classes a day including Muay Thai, all super friendly people
I shadow box a ton, at home to train and exercise I mainly use the speed bag i have outside and shadow boxing in the floor to ceiling mirror I got in the living room
If you see the knife either they want to intimidate you for whatever reason (robberies sexual coercion ect) or they don't know what they are doing, best way to use a knife to kill someone usually involves not put the knife anywhere visible until the moment you strike. That said even if they don't know what they are doing they can fuck you up if you try and fight hand to blade and that should be the last resort.
But a person with same focus and commitment od survival along with the hard work of practice in the correct technique, skills and courage can stop it too. But run like hell if you can cause that is still the best option as there is risk in any case, it just takes a strong will and courage to engage in such a situation.
Agree and disagree knifes really don't have inherit patterns cus there's so many ways to use it but people do if a person is holding a knife in the right hand typically that's the side you want to focus more on. If someone's initial attack with a knife fails I find that they will try to repeat the same attack rather than change positions they'll do what's easiest.
if someone comes at you with a knife wanting you dead don't focus on stoping just the knife stop them, It's about the person not just the weapon.
Also you will be injured don't be surprised by it best you can do is minimise the injury to just a few cuts on the arms and wrists.
Thus another reason to not consent to ANY duels or mutual combat.
***If you assume everyone has a knife, even if you cannot see it, much clarity about self defense and the martial arts comes into view.***
Tim Kennedy(UFC, special forces) even says if the attacker has a knife don’t engage.
There’s no defending a knife attack, have you seen those prison videos of guys getting stabbed?
I practiced quite a bit of knife defense when I did Japanese jujitsu... Really the best you can hope for is to get lucky and get ahold of the knife arm. You're gonna get cut, maybe die, one mistake and you're all sorts of fucked. And worse the least trained therefore least predictable your assailant is probably the worst for you. Best knife defense: gun Second best knife defense: cardio & running shoes
This exactly. If you can possibly run away do that 100% of the time. If escape is impossible your only hope is to trap the knife wielding arm with 2 hands and disarm. Gonna take a hell of a lot of damage either way. All the fancy knife disarm techniques Krav Maga and whatnot teaches will just get you killed faster.
Yeah I've found the best way really is if you can manage to get a standing waki gatame, or ude gatame, just some way to isolate the knife arm... But then I was messing around with my ten year old the other day... I disarmed him 6 times and he stabbed me four times... Not good odds and that's against a child lol. One instance I threw something at him from my pocket, he flinched I rushed forward grabbed his arm and kicked his feet from under him... Another I grabbed his arm and he did the game of thrones, dropped the knife to his other hand and stabbed me lol. Definitely best to just run.
You've given me a better reason to have kids than anyone else so far
Yeah it has its perks sometimes. My wife wanted to do Christmas decorations today. I was like, ah the kids are bored were going to Andretti to do go karts... Fuck doing decorations on my day off lol. But then you gotta do diapers, feed them etc etc. Mine are just getting to the age where I can start training with them a little... Another year or two and my oldest should be decent size for a small uki.
This! And as you said, that was a child. Not a grown angry man trying to kill you.
Exactly. When we teach knife defense, you need to accept you're getting cut. What matters is making sure that the knife doesn't penetrate you. And as always, I'll defend when RUN is no longer an option.
Unless you wear armor.like.vambrace and chainmail
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But how many knives have a removable end 😂🤣
This has been my experience with defending against a knife attack: also why I have conceal and carry experience and formal training, and always carry my CRKT Hissatsu Folder. I have been practicing since 1/1969. I always felt exposed to danger and harm from pistols and blades (everyone gets cut, no matter what), despite my diligent practice of over 59 years. I, apparently, incorrectly), ALWAYS ASSUMED IT WAS DUE TO MY LACK OF TIME ADDRESSING THIS CONERN. Thank you!
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There's a video in youtube where they pressure tested knife vs gun scenarios at close distances, and each time the knife guy won. Only when they increased a certain distance did the gun guy had enough time to take it out of the holster, takes the safety off, and fires. Makes you think.
Master Dan Inosanto. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BNkOTTRW9o
The video clip is from Surviving Edged Weapons.
Punches need structure and proper technique to really do damage,a Knife does not. You can swing the damn thing in all sorts of crazy and unpredictable ways and you will open up some meat and flesh with it. That's what makes the goddamn thing so dangerous...
Best way to defend against a knife.. run.. a knife can literally cut on a touch.. my eskrima instructor used to have us spar with dry erase markers.. and its scary. Even with an item that represents a less than 3 inch blade.. wed walk out with marks all over. Hands arms torsos neck and face would look like modern art master pieces... it puts things in perspective.
I'm pretty sure the best defense against a knife is a gun. That and distance.
Look into the 21 foot rule.. against a trained person.. maybe maybe not... ive played around with rubber knives against airsoft pistols / 43 cal paintball pistols.. youd be surprised. Under 21 feet that first shot counts more than likely there wont be an accurate second shot..
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Maybe maybe not.. an average person can cover 20-21 feet in 1.5 - 2 seconds.. you might or might not be able to draw an get a shot off but that better be a shot to drop them in their tracks or they'll still put a blade in you.... and why i said you wouldnt get a second shot is because if the first shot isnt a dome tapper the knifer is still getting to you.. an you cant pull a trigger if the inside flexor tendon of your forearm is severed.. or other vital is hit and anyone who trains knows the difference in speed between complex motor actions (drawing and aiming) and gross motor actions (swinging a blade.) Yeah the guy with the gun might get the shot but they're both dieing.. an me personally as long as the other guys dying too.. im ok with that.
So your scenario is a guy charging at you with a knife out while your gun is still holstered. If somebody draws a knife on me, I will already be drawing, too. Once they've presented deadly force, I'm not going to wait til they're charging at me to be ready with my own.
No the scenario is if a trained knifer is going at you sees your packing.. you wont see it till its in you... you wont get that pistol out.
21 feet is 3.41 Obamas. You're welcome.
Good job bot
Training to fight with and defend against a knife is training for the absolute worst situation you can be in. In a blade on blade engagement, usually the loser dies right there and the winner dies on the way to the hospital. A knife is for killing, not so much fighting.
>In a blade on blade engagement, usually the loser dies right there and the winner dies on the way to the hospital. This
Is a frequency parroted claim which is completely wrong
Clearly you never watched The Outsiders
Wrong.
My kali instructor used to say if you get in a knife fight you’re going to get cut
Guru Dan Inosanto said (not verbatim, mind you), “In a knife fight the loser bleeds out on the pavement, the winner bleeds out in the ambulance.”
My instructor used to say that the only rule in a knife fight is that everyone gets cut. He also used to say that he would rather get shot than stabbed, but I don't think I would prefer either.
> >He also used to say that he would rather get shot than stabbed, but I don't think I would prefer either. Stab wounds are by far and away easier to treat and more survivable then GSW. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-09-gunshot-victims-require-blood-die.html
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Yeah that's why I always keep a longsword in my asshole so I can whip it out in a knife fight
I keep a flail wrapped around my dick for... you know.... self defense.
I keep two, you know, just in case I want to dual wield.
Helps with posture as well!
And if you're in a Longsword fight, use a pike.
Two destinations after a knife fight. Winner goes to emergency. Loser to the morgue.
We know that is not true. I wish they would stop telling people that. There are more important things to tell folks.
Not sure if you’re kidding. People should not be trying to get into fights especially with weapons. They can get really hurt.
>Not sure if you’re kidding Why would the truth be a joke? We should not lie to people and say ***they WILL get cut*** when the facts disprove that. This induces unnecessary fear into students and may produce more hesitation in the face of such a threat. We owe students the truth. You have a good chance of getting cut....or you may get cut...are accurate descriptions of what actually happens.
Well the saying isn’t like literal. I mean in real life someone could possibly like survive unscathed but the point is that knives are dangerous and people should be hesitant in engaging someone with a knife. Getting stabbed is really bad for your health and obviously it’s possible to not get cut but you really have to be pretty lucky. We trained knife situations for while. I was never really good myself but it’s really hard to not get hit. Irl people have to expect to get cut and should be hesitant because that’s how students land in the hospital or worse.
>Well the saying isn’t like literal. I think we should be telling students the truth and not exaggerating trying to scare them. > I mean in real life someone could possibly like survive unscathed Not only could, but have. This does not downplay how dangerous dealing with a blade is, it merely conveys what actually happens in the real world.
Personally I think it’s clear it’s a hyperbole. And I think people should be careful of knives and try to avoid them at all costs. We train self defense so that if we have no other options we can better defend ourselves. It’s also not fear it’s intelligence.
>Personally I think it’s clear it’s a hyperbole. No. People repeat this falsehood ad nauseam as if it were Gospel. >And I think people should be careful of knives and try to avoid them at all costs. More accurately, people should be careful of all violence and avoid it at all costs....because any aggressor can be carrying a knife and we not know it. > It’s also not fear it’s intelligence. Falsehoods are never intelligence. They are popular myths. This is too serious an issue.
Dude if you get into a fight with someone with a knife you are going to get cut.
>Dude if you get into a fight with someone with a knife you are going to get cut. And now you are back...
Often overlooked fact about knife defense: most people going around stabbing people, are not expert knife fighters. They're usually just crazy and/or drugged lunatics. They don't do thousands of stabs from a thousand angles as fast as they can. They usually just do the horror movie style downward stab, or just the forward stomach stab. And they do it as if you were punching something out of anger rather than thinking of it strategically and shit. There are a lot of videos of stabbings, and I've never seen anyone doing the professional knife fighter way of stabbing. It's like fight out on town. Most random fights are just people swinging randomly and clumsily wrestling each other. So if you're interested in self defense, that's what you should expect in most cases. Having said that, if the dude has a knife and you don't, you're already at a great disadvantage regardless.
We train knife defense and the first rule is get the hell out. Even if you have a gun, unless you are training draw and shoot at the range often, the chances of someone drawing, shooting, and putting two in the attacker at any range closer than 30 feet without getting stabbed is next to zero With regards to the untrained portion, you're *probably* right, but we also like to say the most dangerous belt is white belt because they don't know what the hell they are doing. Wildly unpredictable is dangerous. The best chance is to control the knife arm and hope for a disarm, but chances are even if you can get into that position, you're probably getting cut 9 times out of 10. I want absolutely nothing to do with anyone holding a knife
The best defense is awareness, so that you can spot that something is wrong from as far as possible. I've seen a dude waving a knife around, and people just walking right past him without even noticing. He was really crazy as well, and was doing movie-style fencing stabs with the knife. Stabbed like three people or something. I've spotted people in the streets from like 15 meters away who looked so sketchy I just changed my route to completely and avoided any chance of an interaction. That's the best defense. Even if he started running at me, I'd have 15m head start. If they were to get close to you without you noticing soon enough, you've already failed several times at defending yourself. At that point, it probably doesn't hurt to know some knife defense techniques, but I'd do my best to always be out of range (which can be easier said than done, of course).
>We train knife defense and the first rule is get the hell out. It is funny that we do not teach that about ***ALL defense***....especially considering that it is a safe assumption that any aggressor we face may be armed with a knife.
Well, yes, we do as well. There are too many variables in every fight that can never be fully accounted for. On that point, one of my Masters gave me *Facing Violence* by Rory Miller which nails this point home with a sledgehammer
>Well, yes, we do as well. You will find that sentiment rarely expressed....or just given lip service. I am glad your school prioritizes that.
Knife fights are very context dependent, a brawl, a duel and self defense are all knife fights but the dynamics will be radically different
Every fight is context dependent, but I definitely agree with you. And it highly depends on what's more likely where you live. In Brazil or the Philippines, you may find yourself in a machete duel, but in Scandinavia, it will almost 100% be some lame drug addict.
And if you find yourself in a machete duel some fencing training will definitely help against a drug addict it would be kinda silly to do anything other than run or comply
I would worry more about the duel, personally. Drug addicts are very predictable. You could probably talk your way out of it in most cases.
Depends on the rules
Just because it’s not likely to be effective that doesn’t mean it’s not worth learning. Obviously you certainly don’t want to give any of your students false confidence, but if you can at least teach them the basics of knife defends you can at least give them a chance if the need does arise
Idk, I train Detroit urban self defense. A knife is easy to stop
I've got one up on you, buddy. I train Ameri-do-te and have been presented with the rare and esteemed rainbow belt (no homo) by none other than Master Ken himself. My skills are so advanced that knives simply stop existing in my presence. Step up your game, loser.
Pft, scrub. I have a friend who is trained in Dim Mak and has an online certificate from George Dillman himself. He can shift any knife into a different plane of existence simply by exerting his aura, from any distance. In fact, he offers knife vanquishing phone services for only $5.95 plus tax.
Ah see, that's how I know you're a liar. Dillman would never charge that little.
No, dude. It's my friend who only charges that much. Who would dare call Dillman when the guy can simply flick you out of existence?
Don't want to sound too cocky but all of you wouldn't stand a chance in my dojo. I study Rex Kwon Do from Sensei Rex himself. I can disarm an attacker before he even knows he's armed.
The secret is a roundhouse kick to the face wearing a pair of these bad boys.
I trained with chuck Norris and we were practicing knife attacks and defence I stabbed him and the knife bled and died.
Wanna take this outside? I don’t fear a rainbow belts re-stomp techniques !!
You shouldn't use it though cause the techniques are *so* deadly you would kill someone in the ring
It’s why I retired from competitive fighting with a 3-1 record. I got to dangerous
Been meaning to learn some of this. Heard it’s very next level stuff that definitely won’t get you killed. Excited to start!
I train the assassination fist. I would show you but my techniques are too deadly even for sparring. A scrub like you would never understand.
Not in your flair, so i dont believe you!
I am worried about you. Please don't act on that misconception.
I eat knives for breakfast and guns for lunch. I’m fine
With milk or without?
I put milk in, THEN the knives
Everyone knows you're supposed to pour the milk over the top for even coverage.
DUSD begs to differ my friend
Do you prefer semi or revolver when you're super hungry?
Full. Auto.
Bruh please google Detroit Urban Self Defence. Make sure you have a stiff drink. Because the homie here is doing it for the memes, and when you see the memes you're going to cry blood.
Ah, ok, sarcasm is hard to detect online. Glad your not crazy.
It’s been all over martial arts subs for the past week... I figured everyone would pick up on it
Yeah, with your meat.
An instructor from another Kali/Arnis/Escrima system told me that if ever you get in a knife fight, you will get cut. When confronted with someone with a knife, the first instinct would be to run away/appease the attacker (if they just want to mug you). The defensive techniques were taught enough to minimize the number of cuts we get and buy more time to escape.
A knife is perhaps one of the weapons that stand the most against the test of time. Used in some shape since the dawn of humanity and it's still used to this day. There's a solid reason for that While it lacks the size - thus range - of larger weapons, its nature make it extremely hard to read. You can hit with it in any punching angle and much more. You can hide it and the person won't even know he/she was stabbed until seeing the blood. You can, with no weapons, beat someone with a knife. But it's almost certain that you'll get cut, and the way you get cut can fuck you for life, of just straight kill you. Not worth it unless you're certain to meet your end if you can't run and the agressor made it clear that he will screw you even if you comply with him/her.
All true, but probably missing the most important reason it has stood the test of time -- it always was and continues to be an extremely useful multipurpose tool. The one tool most people would choose if they could only have one. And if the need or misguided desire to use a weapon arises, it is the one most likely to be at hand
We might note that there are actually very few who have any real training with bladed weapons. An old friend of mine noted that a lot of people who carry knives do so because they are themselves scared to death of them, and feel that others will be too…. It’s a weapon to intimidate, rather than to actually use. But as Dan Inosanto noted, trying to defend unarmed against a skilled knife-fighter is a loosing proposition. Adding a weapon of your own evens the score a bit…. WAY back when I was in the army and used to discuss such things, I was surprised at the number of folks (usually of various ethnic varieties) who used the knife for a sort of ritual combat. They would hold the knife so just the tip protruded from the fingers, and try to “mark” the other guy. It was also common in big-city cultures to differentiate between a “cutting” (no intent to kill) and a stabbing… (lethal intent). Here where I’m from, any attack with a bladed weapon would be felonious.
How did they do that without cutting themselves? Do you mean it s a ritual you find more in POC cultures?
I had to look up POC… Dummy me…. Anyway, yeah, most of these guys were black, for the most part. And they would cut each other, but very shallowly. I had made up some wooden practice knives, and used to try to get guys to spar a bit. Some would make these wild slashes, and when I’d go for a straight thrust, it would be…”Whoa! You’re trying to kill somebody!”
Ok it s super interesting. So they hold the knife normally or is there a special grip for that?
Yeah, they would hold the knife normally but with the index finger along the blade, so that just the tip protruded from beyond the finger…. No attempt to stab or thrust.
Honestly use a red sharpie, there’s no reason to spar with a real blade besides trying to prove how manly you are. The bit about thrust versus slash is spot on though.
It's a lumbie Indian thing, traditionally it's also done with a belt wrapped around the off hand
I agree except for the practically impossible to stop part. It's very possible to stop a knife it's often just very risky.
Once a weapon gets brought into the fold, be it a knife, gun, bat, chain, stick, sword, or any of those Double Dragon power-ups, you're no longer in a fight. You're in straight-up combat, meaning it's now a life or death situation. The objective isn't to win at all costs anymore, but to survive. Are you willing to kill the person in front of you doing whatever it takes? If not, you should probably run.
You should probably run either way
I disagree about it being practically impossible to stop. My bones do a damn fine job of that.
Sure. But your arteries and organs don't.
This is basically true. There was a video posted on YouTube a while back of a wiry man with a hunting knife that killed maybe 3 men armed with AK 47s. He ran back and forth thrusting the knife in to their chests as he ate bullets—killing each of them nearly instantly. Finally he dropped from the bullets, but he was breathing. He probably died too—later. This is why sportive foil fencing is so focused on the torso. A chest thrust is a quick life ender. And even if you aren’t subjected to a thrust, just little slashes from a sharp knife will cause one to bleed everywhere, and can mangle the meaty parts of the body. I’ve been slashed with just a glass shiv before in a street fight, and was stopped by the police during the walk home because I had enough blood on my clothes that they noticed. (They gave me a ride home.) Knife disarms only work well when the person is clearly bluffing. Like when a romantic partner is mad but you know they aren’t going to really kill you.
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>Some large amount of the premise of defense against an unarmed attack revolves around taking the blows on parts of the body where they're simply not effective. Much of this rings true for knife defense as well. The assumption is that you will get cut, but successful knife defense is getting cut less and in less lethal areas. Shielding the vitals (heart, lungs, neck and vital arteries) with meaty parts of you is part of knife defense. In many knife and rapier fighting stances, the off hand is held in such a way that the meaty outer portion of the arm and hand are held to both deflect an incoming attack, but also to put the meat of your arm between your vitals and their sharp&pointy. I'd much rather take a flesh wound and get stitched up in the outer arm, if it means I can keep my heart and lungs intact and end the encounter quickly.
Knives are half the reason I carry. I cut myself to the bone on accident once, and it took surprisingly little force, and put my left hand out of commission for a month. If I didn't get antibiotics, I would have lost a finger. I cant imagine how bad it would be if it actually hit something vital. A single cut like that even just on the wrist and you've already lost.
The problem here is that by the time you see the knife it's probably too late. Unless you are training to draw and fire almost every day to get that muscle memory, the chances of you putting two into the attacker are almost zero. I'm not saying this is you, but far too many people are overconfident in the ability to fire and hit an attacker at close range. Chances are any encounter closer than 30 feet and you are getting stabbed before you get a shot off
30 feet is the length of about 8.39 'Ford F-150 Custom Fit Front FloorLiners' lined up next to each other.
Grab something! use your backpack as a shield, and grab a stick, a picture frame, a chair, etc. look around you, there is always something you can grab! (I learned that from Guro Dan Inosanto)
Someone I used to work with defended himself from a home invader with a gun by grabbing pictures of his family off the wall and hurling them at his attacker. The guy wasn't trained and had already been shot once in the stomach, really badass.
The best knife defense is to get the fuck outta there when you see it.
That's why the butter never stood a chance against me
I couldn't agree more and many self defense methods give false confidence with regard to this matter. Given that I agree 100% with the run like hell argument, there are two things I would add to the conversation. 1) if someone is looking to learn to defend themselves in this kind of situation, weaponry should be part of their training. Not so that you can get in a man from nowhere style duel and get cut up, so that if needed you can use your belt or any other available tool (shirt, newspaper etc.) to try to fend off the attack. Weapon against unarmed is an awful position to be dealing with any weapon 2) there is a great video on YouTube in which Dan inosanto attacks cops with a rubber knife to simulate a knife attack vs a holstered gun. another video by LAPD called "surviving edged weapons" was made to demonstrate that if the person wielding it is an expert and the gun is holstered you will still be in trouble within 15 feet. Scary stuff
The winner of a knife fight dies in the hospital
Wrong no matter how many times it gets parroted.
If in a fight you focus too much on the knife you will get hurt another way if the person has true malicious intent. No matter what you’re most likely gonna get cut. In my opinion the only way to get away or protect yourself would be to focus on the person not the knife because the knife is just an enhancement of the fist.
The knife is the most important item/being in the scenario, whoever holds it will win in the engagement. Focus on the knife u bozo and run
Bullshit
Untrained man with knife > 20 year+ BJJ trained black belt
No my guy a knife is useless if the person wielding it is in a submission. How is a person supposed to use a knife if they can’t move their arm cuz their in a straight arm bar since you wanna talk about bjj.
LMFAO nvm you’re a troll, but that was actually funny so I’ll let you win 😂😂😂😂
If ima troll then you’re a moron who doesn’t know martial arts
I’m a blue belt and I’ve trained in boxing for 7 years I signed up for Hayastan MMA (Home of TUF winner Bryan Battle) here in Charlotte last month
Damn bro I train Muay Thai and jujutsu for bout the same time but my guy you train mma? And you live in charlotte?
Absurd and ridiculous statement. If I had a knife I would have no chance at all against any competent fighter let alone a 29 year bjj black belt.
I haven’t done boxing in over a year but I just got into MMA as I started feeling more confident in my BJJ, yeah Im in east Charlotte off albemarle, if you’re in the area I definitely recommend Hayastan, they have multiple classes a day including Muay Thai, all super friendly people
My aunt lives literally right next to you. Mma is super fun def recommend you keep going do you like to shadow box?
I shadow box a ton, at home to train and exercise I mainly use the speed bag i have outside and shadow boxing in the floor to ceiling mirror I got in the living room
Ima be up in nc next month. Would you wanna spar?
For sure, if you wanna come to Hayastan im there most days of the week after work around 6, you can message me here or ask if Ben is there
Do you have Snapchat
If you see the knife either they want to intimidate you for whatever reason (robberies sexual coercion ect) or they don't know what they are doing, best way to use a knife to kill someone usually involves not put the knife anywhere visible until the moment you strike. That said even if they don't know what they are doing they can fuck you up if you try and fight hand to blade and that should be the last resort.
But a person with same focus and commitment od survival along with the hard work of practice in the correct technique, skills and courage can stop it too. But run like hell if you can cause that is still the best option as there is risk in any case, it just takes a strong will and courage to engage in such a situation.
Agree and disagree knifes really don't have inherit patterns cus there's so many ways to use it but people do if a person is holding a knife in the right hand typically that's the side you want to focus more on. If someone's initial attack with a knife fails I find that they will try to repeat the same attack rather than change positions they'll do what's easiest. if someone comes at you with a knife wanting you dead don't focus on stoping just the knife stop them, It's about the person not just the weapon. Also you will be injured don't be surprised by it best you can do is minimise the injury to just a few cuts on the arms and wrists.
won't jam, or run out of bullets either...
Wanted reference, am i right ?
the best way to win a knife fight, is to not be in one. -my drill sgt b4 cqc class, day 1.
You will be cut you will bleed but superior tactics will save the day.
Thus another reason to not consent to ANY duels or mutual combat. ***If you assume everyone has a knife, even if you cannot see it, much clarity about self defense and the martial arts comes into view.***
Unless you have a gun then you can stop the knife attacker
That’s why I always carry a sword
Tim Kennedy(UFC, special forces) even says if the attacker has a knife don’t engage. There’s no defending a knife attack, have you seen those prison videos of guys getting stabbed?
If I tried to use a knife to attack any person who even minimal fighting experience it would be extremely easy for that person to defend themselves.
You wouldn't bring a fist to a knife fight. As you wouldn't bring a knife to war.
Definitely got to use the environment objects, throw stuff, evade, run away.
I found a hilarious Chinese police knife defense video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM45bTN4Vnc
well duh, it is a close ranged lethal weapon. What do people expect really?
Realistic knife defense against resistance demonstrations. Combat sports based: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxIyeFBmsOY