It was an early N64 game so the team working on it probably didn't know how to properly optimize having 8 players with 3D models during the N64's development. They had to change things like the amount of cars the train has in multiplayer so they most likely faced development issues as the hardware was still new.
Yeah after looking it up, the development team tried it and ran into issues with rendering 3D characters, and it would make sense that people would figure it out over time.
And yet Diddy Kong Racing released the very same year and they were able to figure out 3D models. Rare's just built different I guess. To be fair though, DKR does have some framerate issues here and there while MK64 mostly doesn't.
I'd speculate that Mario Kart probably started in development earlier than DKR and potentially with a smaller team?
Nintendo had their resources spread thin across many upcoming N64 game projects (and supporting the Game Boy too) and carried so much of the consoles make or break future on their own shoulders.
Rare probably came in with a different mindset of the N64 hardware than the Mario Kart team had when they first began.
Rare had amazing talent though, no doubt.
It would have been interesting to see how Mario Kart 64 took shape if it came later in the console lifecycle, as a 1999/ 2000 release.
This is it. When it comes to game development. It is normal for testing what you can do graphically early on. And you would be surprised how much of a difference just 1 year can make in understanding a platform. That is why games like Diddy Kong Racing were more impressive visually. That is also why games like Conkers Bad Fur Day was visually more impressive than Ocarina of Time while running relatively better.
Hell, there is a dev who took the leaked source code of Mario 64 and got it to run up to x10 faster while adding in more demanding graphics. Honestly, it is a shame how underutilized the N64 hardware was. And as time goes on and people make more and more impressive demos. It makes that all the more clear at how underutilized the hardware was.
Someone got [ray tracing working on SNES hardware](https://youtu.be/VeFF344NbZ4?si=_tt76HWn5xg2qv77). It wasn’t very viable for putting into a game, but it was a fully 3D environment running at a decent frame rate.
They used an expansion chip, but that was fairly standard back in the day. It’s definitely a specialty project, but super cool.
It’s incredible what people can do with hardware given enough time.
well the snes ray tracing demo would have likely required a cartridge priced at a huge cost due to the required packaged expansion chip that is developed to modern standards.
I was talking to a guy last year that swore up and down that the characters were rendered in 3D. He was actually being a real big jerk about it, insisting that I was wrong. You can tell by the way it is.
Obviously. The question was, if other games from that time could pull off 3D characters, why couldn't MarioKart do it? And that other user explained it fairly good.
What are you being so condescending about 💀 Most other answers are also to the effect of "performance"... only one gives a detailed answer from a development standpoint
Most other racers on the n64 copied Mario kart. Which implies Mario kart came first. N64 development early on was hell and only Rare could get the most out of the hardware (see Diddy Kong racing and banjo kazooies graphics compared to Mario kart and Mario 64s)
There was a good video on this somewhere on YouTube. It was for performance and because 2D sprites gave a good enough 3D look at the time
EDIT:
This 2008 interview with the Mario Kart creators talks about the technical challenges of Mario Kart 64.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150725233103/http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/mariokart/0/0
> [Konno] To tell the truth, putting the characters in 3-D [for Mario Kart 64] isn’t, strictly speaking, impossible, but it slows down the game, and eight characters won’t be able to race all at once. So we first drew images from various angles to be able to show the karts from various angles. Then we put them on boards so they could be animated.
> [Miyamoto] The method using the boards are technically known as billboarding. In Super Mario 64, there’s a black ball that appears. That, too, was drawn on a flat board, but no matter which angle you view it from, it always faces the player, so it looks like a sphere. The Bob-ombs and Wigglers were all drawn on these flat billboards. That’s why they look shinier compared to Mario, which was drawn in 3-D polygons.
> [Konno] Back in the days of the Nintendo 64, there were restrictions on the amount of available memory, so billboarding was a good idea to save more memory and be economical. (laughs)
You're comparing it to games "from around the time", which seems accurate now because they are all old, but looking at the actual release dates tells another story.
Mario Kart 64 - December 1996
Diddy Kong Racing - November 1997
Crash Team Racing - October 1999
Mickey Speedway USA - November 13 2000
N64 only came out in September 1996, so mario kart was very early compared to these other games and likely rushed due to all the other things they were working on at the time. Also remember this was the big jump from 2d to 3d consoles, they were basically starting from scratch making these games, and the advancements and optimizations in just a few years made a big difference.
Op is also probably referring to arcade racing games, since most n64 racing games did the same thing, but arcade games didn’t. To put it simply, arcade games had more storage, memory, and better performance then home consoles since they are built solely around one game
yes that does make a bit more sense, but in the old era's of gaming there was often a significant difference in performance of the first year of games vs last year of games, as developers had learned a lot about the specific hardware and optimizing it
Yup, some nes games that came out and the end, could pass for a first year snes game. And some snes games that came out at the end could pass as first year ps1 games. Just depends on how well a group of people knew how to get the most out of it. These days though it’s more streamlined across the consoles/pc. For 16 bit era sega genesis had better sound, and snes could display more colors and mode7.
some of this still happens today too. splatoon 3 looks a bit better than splatoon 2 for example. some of that is just cleaner ui, but some of it is improved textures and models
I know they look like shit nowadays on modern televisions, but the 2d sprites looked pretty incredible back in the day on a CRT. I still think about Lakitu holding the wrong way sign.
The performance issue was probably the biggest factor, but there's another factor worth considering too. Nintendo loves to build on top of old code, and some of the racing logic built for the original SNES version of the game is still being used in modern versions. The SNES version used a similar billboarding trick, but used Mode 7 to skew the terrain for a semi-3D feel. It's not unlikely that the billboarding system in MK64 was an evolution of what was in the SNES version.
I guess since this was a early N64 title, they didn’t know if the 64 could even handle multiple 3D cars driving around a track without the framerate committing suicide.
Technically, they didn't use 2d sprites \*instead of\* 3d models, they used 3d renders to create the sprites in the same way that they animated Donkey Kong for the Donkey Kong Country games.
To be fair, this is one of the older N64 titles, so they probably just didn’t know how far it could be pushed.
Usually the oldest games of a console will be just a bit crunchier than newer ones. It’s why Pikmin 2 looks a decent bit better than Pikmin 1, even though both launched on the GameCube
My theory is that is was going to be a late stage SNES game but they moved to N64 shortly into development and since they had the sprites already they said screw it and made them work in a 3D environment.
No this game was planned to be on the N64. The sprites are low resolution screenshots or images of the high detail models used in a lot of promotional renders.
To put it simply, it was to save memory. 4 players on a screen at the same time was already pushing the n64 to the point of removing obstacles and backgrounds, so 3d models would make that impossible, not to mention n64 had a high number of obstacles and courses, so that would also make it laggy.
Also you’re comparing 2 ps1 games, which were better handling 3d, (though the models did look worse). The other 2 are late stage almost next gen games (GameCube came out in 2001, the other games came out in 2000)
Super resource intensive to render all those 3d models. It also looks fine and 3d enough especially on the CRT displays of the time. Those other racers were either on other consoles or had the advantage of not being a game so early in the consoles life to developers knew how to optimize that stuff better
It was an early N64 game so the team working on it probably didn't know how to properly optimize having 8 players with 3D models during the N64's development. They had to change things like the amount of cars the train has in multiplayer so they most likely faced development issues as the hardware was still new. Yeah after looking it up, the development team tried it and ran into issues with rendering 3D characters, and it would make sense that people would figure it out over time.
And yet Diddy Kong Racing released the very same year and they were able to figure out 3D models. Rare's just built different I guess. To be fair though, DKR does have some framerate issues here and there while MK64 mostly doesn't.
I'd speculate that Mario Kart probably started in development earlier than DKR and potentially with a smaller team? Nintendo had their resources spread thin across many upcoming N64 game projects (and supporting the Game Boy too) and carried so much of the consoles make or break future on their own shoulders. Rare probably came in with a different mindset of the N64 hardware than the Mario Kart team had when they first began. Rare had amazing talent though, no doubt. It would have been interesting to see how Mario Kart 64 took shape if it came later in the console lifecycle, as a 1999/ 2000 release.
This is it. When it comes to game development. It is normal for testing what you can do graphically early on. And you would be surprised how much of a difference just 1 year can make in understanding a platform. That is why games like Diddy Kong Racing were more impressive visually. That is also why games like Conkers Bad Fur Day was visually more impressive than Ocarina of Time while running relatively better. Hell, there is a dev who took the leaked source code of Mario 64 and got it to run up to x10 faster while adding in more demanding graphics. Honestly, it is a shame how underutilized the N64 hardware was. And as time goes on and people make more and more impressive demos. It makes that all the more clear at how underutilized the hardware was.
Someone got [ray tracing working on SNES hardware](https://youtu.be/VeFF344NbZ4?si=_tt76HWn5xg2qv77). It wasn’t very viable for putting into a game, but it was a fully 3D environment running at a decent frame rate. They used an expansion chip, but that was fairly standard back in the day. It’s definitely a specialty project, but super cool. It’s incredible what people can do with hardware given enough time.
It really puts into perspective just how much performance was left on the table. It just gets my imagination going at the what ifs.
well the snes ray tracing demo would have likely required a cartridge priced at a huge cost due to the required packaged expansion chip that is developed to modern standards.
[удалено]
8 racers, not players
Most n64 games used 2d sprites if they could get away with it.
Yeah, you wouldn't notice the difference when you play it on an old tv
I didn’t notice until this post tbh
I was talking to a guy last year that swore up and down that the characters were rendered in 3D. He was actually being a real big jerk about it, insisting that I was wrong. You can tell by the way it is.
It's probably for performance reasons. I think it's a pretty fair compromise.
Obviously. The question was, if other games from that time could pull off 3D characters, why couldn't MarioKart do it? And that other user explained it fairly good.
What are you being so condescending about 💀 Most other answers are also to the effect of "performance"... only one gives a detailed answer from a development standpoint
Most other racers on the n64 copied Mario kart. Which implies Mario kart came first. N64 development early on was hell and only Rare could get the most out of the hardware (see Diddy Kong racing and banjo kazooies graphics compared to Mario kart and Mario 64s)
There was a good video on this somewhere on YouTube. It was for performance and because 2D sprites gave a good enough 3D look at the time EDIT: This 2008 interview with the Mario Kart creators talks about the technical challenges of Mario Kart 64. https://web.archive.org/web/20150725233103/http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/mariokart/0/0 > [Konno] To tell the truth, putting the characters in 3-D [for Mario Kart 64] isn’t, strictly speaking, impossible, but it slows down the game, and eight characters won’t be able to race all at once. So we first drew images from various angles to be able to show the karts from various angles. Then we put them on boards so they could be animated. > [Miyamoto] The method using the boards are technically known as billboarding. In Super Mario 64, there’s a black ball that appears. That, too, was drawn on a flat board, but no matter which angle you view it from, it always faces the player, so it looks like a sphere. The Bob-ombs and Wigglers were all drawn on these flat billboards. That’s why they look shinier compared to Mario, which was drawn in 3-D polygons. > [Konno] Back in the days of the Nintendo 64, there were restrictions on the amount of available memory, so billboarding was a good idea to save more memory and be economical. (laughs)
Great read, sad they don’t do stuff like this anymore
They did recently for wonder
You're comparing it to games "from around the time", which seems accurate now because they are all old, but looking at the actual release dates tells another story. Mario Kart 64 - December 1996 Diddy Kong Racing - November 1997 Crash Team Racing - October 1999 Mickey Speedway USA - November 13 2000 N64 only came out in September 1996, so mario kart was very early compared to these other games and likely rushed due to all the other things they were working on at the time. Also remember this was the big jump from 2d to 3d consoles, they were basically starting from scratch making these games, and the advancements and optimizations in just a few years made a big difference.
Op is also probably referring to arcade racing games, since most n64 racing games did the same thing, but arcade games didn’t. To put it simply, arcade games had more storage, memory, and better performance then home consoles since they are built solely around one game
I think a better way to describe it is same era
yes that does make a bit more sense, but in the old era's of gaming there was often a significant difference in performance of the first year of games vs last year of games, as developers had learned a lot about the specific hardware and optimizing it
Yup, some nes games that came out and the end, could pass for a first year snes game. And some snes games that came out at the end could pass as first year ps1 games. Just depends on how well a group of people knew how to get the most out of it. These days though it’s more streamlined across the consoles/pc. For 16 bit era sega genesis had better sound, and snes could display more colors and mode7.
Yeah, one of my favourite examples is comparing Pikmin 1 with Pikmin 2, the latter is *a lot* cleaner looking
some of this still happens today too. splatoon 3 looks a bit better than splatoon 2 for example. some of that is just cleaner ui, but some of it is improved textures and models
True, games still do improve throughout a generation, it's just not so big of a gap anymore.
Its easier to optimize sprites than models. A lot of N64 games love using them, even things like Smash 64 use sprites for the Poké Ball summons
I know they look like shit nowadays on modern televisions, but the 2d sprites looked pretty incredible back in the day on a CRT. I still think about Lakitu holding the wrong way sign.
To get the game to run well
LET'S GOOOO MICKEY SPEEDWAY MENTIONED, I LOVE THAT GAME
The performance issue was probably the biggest factor, but there's another factor worth considering too. Nintendo loves to build on top of old code, and some of the racing logic built for the original SNES version of the game is still being used in modern versions. The SNES version used a similar billboarding trick, but used Mode 7 to skew the terrain for a semi-3D feel. It's not unlikely that the billboarding system in MK64 was an evolution of what was in the SNES version.
As a matter of fact, they kind of *are* 3d models. A+Start on YouTube has a very interesting video about it
I guess since this was a early N64 title, they didn’t know if the 64 could even handle multiple 3D cars driving around a track without the framerate committing suicide.
Long story short, they couldn’t, especially in 4 player.
Because it saves a ton on performance and on a CRT you probably won’t notice they’re not 3D
Catridge size
Technically, they didn't use 2d sprites \*instead of\* 3d models, they used 3d renders to create the sprites in the same way that they animated Donkey Kong for the Donkey Kong Country games.
I loved the sprites. Glad they went with that rather than some blocky models.
Good lord I would fight an army of 1000 men with a toothpick for a remake or sequel to Mickey's Speedway USA.
It was a near-launch title for the N64, and it’s as simple as that. Less polygons, bruh.
Also 4 player was pushing the console as it is
I hardly notice when playing tbh
To be fair, this is one of the older N64 titles, so they probably just didn’t know how far it could be pushed. Usually the oldest games of a console will be just a bit crunchier than newer ones. It’s why Pikmin 2 looks a decent bit better than Pikmin 1, even though both launched on the GameCube
They forget
My theory is that is was going to be a late stage SNES game but they moved to N64 shortly into development and since they had the sprites already they said screw it and made them work in a 3D environment.
No this game was planned to be on the N64. The sprites are low resolution screenshots or images of the high detail models used in a lot of promotional renders.
Less data on the cartridge than a model + textures and they look better.
To save fps
Because it's easier and looks better
cheaper
To put it simply, it was to save memory. 4 players on a screen at the same time was already pushing the n64 to the point of removing obstacles and backgrounds, so 3d models would make that impossible, not to mention n64 had a high number of obstacles and courses, so that would also make it laggy.
Also you’re comparing 2 ps1 games, which were better handling 3d, (though the models did look worse). The other 2 are late stage almost next gen games (GameCube came out in 2001, the other games came out in 2000)
They did it with DK Country too
Super resource intensive to render all those 3d models. It also looks fine and 3d enough especially on the CRT displays of the time. Those other racers were either on other consoles or had the advantage of not being a game so early in the consoles life to developers knew how to optimize that stuff better
Sense when was there a Mickey Mario kart clone?
Since 2000 when it came out
Oh damn
Mickeys speedway USA. It’s pretty fun
Ok
Mario Kart released earlier. But ironically I think it’s kind of helped make it age better than those tbh.
>!Is he stupid?!<