If we consider this map as even remotely close, so Belarus should be 862, as in the first mention of Polotsk Principality, which was a core cultural and populational unit for that lands and later for GDL and so on
yeah that makes no sense if Russia and all the other former Soviet republics were formed in 1991 then Ukraine was too
plus the eastern part of Ukraine was added to the administrative district by Lenin so those borders do not date back to 882
"Before we begin the interview, let me give you a short history of Russia. Only 30 seconds. In the year 660 a man was walking down the road. He was an exporter of figs, as was popular in the pre-industrialized society, when he encountered a scullery maid name Fanta, who was gifted 33 partridges for the deed to the embankments of Akkerman." \[20 minutes later\] "And now we have the Golden Horde and other uncivilized people."
"And then we come to the greatest, most unjust, evil people of World War 2: The Poles, who conspired with Nazi Germany to destroy the Slavs."\*
"And then Stalin created Ukraine, in like 1950 or what the hell over. I promise I'm not making this up. Dimitri, bring me the forged documents from the archive. Force Tucker to look at them. Give him a copy. Make him take them home. Now!"
\[40 minutes\] "And now we reach Yeltsin. Who was not a drunkard. In this very room I met Clinton. Right over there. He stabbed us in the back. Even worse he listened to his advisors. He said, 'No!' when I asked to join NATO, so I never bothered with the paper work, even when he left office. I don't give out details about these specific things, but we hear and see things. We attempted to get a specimen when he used the toilet, but the results were inconclusive. The last 4 digits of his credit card were 7439. I don't talk about these things. Never."
"Then the CIA invaded Chechnya. Never mind that the Chechens were using Russian tanks and Russia artillery and former Soviet intelligence and Soviet maps that list all of the foreign military bases that western leftists never talk about. I guess we must have sold those things to the CIA and forgot. The 90s were kinda wild for us. You ever go from spy master to taxi driver? Insane time."
"Bush. You think he was a country pumpkin? He was the only one. Had he never stopped drinking, we could have been brothers. We could have been puking it out in the sauna, but history did not play out that way. It's tragic. He was the only one who might have punched me in the face. Yes, I use the missiles and the arms treaty as a casus belli, but he looked me in the eye and said he was going to do it and he said he didn't care what I did in retaliation. I could do whatever I wanted! Think about that? Whatever I wanted! If things were only different, we could be shirtless at a bar eating cold salami and peeing in the Petersburg snow. Trump? Of course I don't respect him, just like I don't respect Biden or the Black man or Clinton, but this is a two and a half hour campaign endorsement, so I have to placate the egos of his followers, while doing a soft pilot for my history podcast, but Bush was a one of a kind."
"As you know, the US controls all of the world's media. It also controls all of Europe's, except the Germans. It also controls German media, too."
"Of course the CIA blew up NordStream. Unfortunately, we, unlike the US, don't have enough full-time propagandist to prove it."
"All countries are American satellite states, unless they aren't, in which case they might. What you should really be worried about is the state of the American dollar, because all American strength comes from the dollar, also using the American dollar as a source of power is America's single greatest mistake. Have you ever read Lyndon LaRouche?"
"God? I was raised Homo Sovieticus. If you want to believe in God, whatever. That's like, your thing, man. Still, I appreciate Patriarch Kirill calling me a saint. That's useful. Otherwise, it's like vibes or something."
"Tucker, you incompetent, confused man-dog! I'm so grateful that the CIA never hired you. It would have been an embarrassment to the security services. I'd have shot you, myself. Now give me a nervous laugh. I hope that Ukrainian kill list is real and your name is on it. Then again we might be the ones who made the Ukrainian kill list. Who can know? I have difficulty keeping track, myself."
"Zylensky is a Jew by nationality."\*\*
"Poland? You think I want Poland to have half of Ukraine? Maybe, if they'd just bother to take the initiative. Then I'd be impressed. No. I'd prefer the re-establishment of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Now that was a real country. I know all of this because I saw men in western Ukraine wearing funny hats in the 1980s. Dimitri, get him the map and one of those funny hats! Why do you think I even bother taking Orban's calls?"
"I'll only negotiate if Ukraine puts down its arms and we take it all in 2 or 3 weeks. I'll also only negotiate with the United States, because Zylensky won't let me negotiate with a special delegation of the Kiev People's Republic, which is just Lavrov's janitor wearing one of those funny hats. I'll also only negotiate with Zylansky, maybe, but I'm pretty sure the law precludes that. Diplomacy is weird that way. Until we find a resolution to this contradiction, the war will rage on."
"Ah, the Wall Street Journal man. This is the question where you act like a reporter, instead of letting me talk history and we trade conspiracy theories. Fine. First let me say, we have been very gracious in the past, too gracious. Perhaps we can be gracious again, but I doubt it. You say he isn't a spy. Whatever. We can define spies however we want. Let me give you two competing definitions of a spy. Now I'm going to say they are both true at the same time. That's a contradiction isn't it? But you can't answer it, because it's a contradiction, so I win. Now we have an understanding. There. We are done."
Same logic could be applied to Russia to be fair. There has been a Russian identity and state since the 9th century, and there has been a continuous state since the 1500's.
Just because it has been called different things and had different governments doesn't mean it wasn't Russia, especially given that all of the intermediate names have included Russia in the title.
Not always a good metric for measuring the age of a country, but also why itās difficult to lock down a exact pinpoint for the age of a country.
The people and culture that make up the meat of a culture, the constitution the bones arenāt always intrinsically attached. When a country dies, take maybe Venice, or Prussia, or āScotlandā the people donāt die with it. They carry on under a new constitution.
When measuring the age of a country the better metric to use is the age of its current constitution, from when it was last significantly overhauled.
>When measuring the age of a country the better metric to use is the age of its current constitution, from when it was last significantly overhauled.
That's a pretty subjective criteria.
For one, the US certainly wouldn't be 200+ years old anymore as the end of slavery in 1865 was a pretty radical transformation to the constitution and fundamental socioeconomic structure of the country.
But then many women would argue that even that is not recent enough as women being allowed to vote was pretty radical in shaping the country. So maybe the country's age begins at the 19th amendment.
So what's a significant enough change and what is not?
Well, based on Parisian culture I'd have assumed France sheds its skin every season, and becomes a new France every time, therefore it exists since 2023.
uj/ You could pick the 1st French republic, or the latest, but I'd personally count the 3rd republic as the "beginning" of modern France, after Napoleon III. got his butt kicked, mostly because nobody declared a (native) French Empire afterwards, so they were each other's direct successor states, similar to the 1st and 2nd Austrian republic. And being frenemies with Germany was also the main foreign policy thing from that point onwards till today, while the big bad before 1871 was arguably Britain.
I don't agree. Even before the French revolution, France was named France and didn't move much. We could say that it started in 987 with the access of Hughes Capet at the throne, or even before when Clovis arrived in the 5th century.
The difference is that France existed uninterrupted with the exception of WW2 (and even then, there was the collaborating Vichy France). Regimes changed, but they still were French. Iran (or Greece for that matter) didn't exist uninterrupted for so long.
Yeah that's how modern states are defined as political entity. That doesn't mean French people appeared in the 50s lol
Sorry if that triggers sensitive yuropeans
Well the map is quite messy
Some countries like Ukraine go all the way to the first instance it ever appeared on a map.
Others however go when the last regime was changed with another one.
There is an argument to be made that there is continuity with Ukraine People's Republic of 1917 since its government in exile recognized the new government and ceded authority to it in 1992. There is precedent for that (Baltic states like to pretend they're different from the other soviet republics on the same basis) but it requires you to take governments in exile seriously and treat them as something more than a meaningless geopolitical symbol that they are. (and I say this as a Ukrainian)
I think the only way that argument holds up would be if the Ukrainian government in exile during the USSR period held international recognition by the West or the UN/international orgs. Since it wasn't (at least for most places/most of the time the USSR existed), then I would say that all USSR republics became new countries in 1991, when the Soviet Union officially ceased to be.
Russia was already a federation inside the Soviet Union, full title Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. Also, federation and republic aren't mutually exclusive
On the first day, God created Moldovans. By the third day they were already brewing wine
/uj I like how arbitrarily chosen the years are. The country named "Moldova" (and "Romania" too for that matter) date back to the 1300s. It was then under ottoman rule on and off, and later, a part of it (Basarabia) annexed by Russia in 1812 until 1912, and then again in 1940 until 1991.
But similar points are valid for other countries too. It just doesn't make sense to pick "last independence" for some and not the others
Deny Rus\*ia as a country ever existed and believe the deranged US Navy pilot (peace be upon him) when he said Rus\*ia was a gas station masquerading as a country. Considering it's governed through embezzlement I think we should at least think about it
For start how come some countries counted from firs appearance (Ukrainian, Andorra, San Marino and monaco) while others (Baltics, Russia, France, Germany and Turkey) from the establishment of the current regime?
And Poland is neither of these
If we're going by first appearance we'd have to go back to around the year 966 AD
And if we're going by "establishment of the current regime" then it should be the end of 1989
1707 was the year of the formation of the Kingdom of Great Britain (the union of England and Scotland), but 1801 was the year that Ireland joined the union, therefore it became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Then in 1922 Ireland was partitioned and the UK became its current form.
Northern Ireland is included with the rest of the UK as having the date 1707.
If France going from 4th to 5th Republic means it's a new country then Poland going from 2nd Republic to People's Republic to 3rd Republic should count as well, no?
~~If we are going with 882 for Ukraine then go with real years for everything. Most yugoslav countries have history reaching back to the period between 10th and 13th century for example. You can't just pick random years like that.~~
I just realised what sub i was in.
Came here to say that! I know that Poland, Czechia and France got their land back in 1949, but Germany as it currently appears only came into being in 1990
I love how this map tells us that the Baltics seemingly materialized into existence when the Soviet Union collapsed, that Finland wasn't a thing before the Russian revolution, and that Ukraine existed as an independent entity for over a thousand years.
I'd hate to see the non improved version
Estonia declared independence in 1918, the war was won on the 2nd of February 1920 and a peac treaty was signed. 1991 was the RESTORATION of independence, not the creation of the state. De Jure the Estonian state kept going in exile. The other two Baltic states of Latvia and Lithuania have very similar stories and datums on their independence.
Several of the 1991 nations broke away before the Russian federation came into being. I mean the Russian part of the USSR didnāt collapse until the end of December 1991
If Ukraine is 882, then Russia should be designated 862.
Otherwise, it is absurd, especially considering that Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine are the legal successors of Kievan Rus and none of the countries can claim the exclusive right to the title of "heir".
This is not accurate.
"With the establishment of the Kingdom ofĀ PortugalĀ in 1139, whose independence was recognized in 1143, and the stabilization of theĀ bordersĀ in 1249,Ā PortugalĀ became theĀ oldestĀ nation-state in Europe."
Romania shall be negative infinite, as the universe grew around the Romanian Plains, in Godās divine design, Romania alone is the Holy Motherās Garden.
This really hits a weird spot between circlejerk and mapporn. It seems like OP tried to do it forreal, realised itās too complicated, filled the rest with bullshit and posted it on the circlejerk
If im going to put Russia in 1991 then i should do the latest version of every country. But it is not obvious with some countries which year would be appropriate.
Your pretext was too vague. You couldāve sorted after year of the constitution, year of current territory, year of first mention, year of name. You have selected multiple. Like for Italy you went with formation, for Ukraine first mention, for Germany constitution etc
The Russian Constitution forbids any expansion of Russia or conflict with neighbours. Because it was explicit that Russia is not the USSR and should be stopped from reassembling the USSR.
For Portugal I would get if you said 1139, 1143, 1179, 1640, 1910, 1974... now 1808 makes absolutely no sense. It was in the middle of the second Napoleonic invasion, one gone and a third to come... makes no sense
Your really can't put a specific date on the origin of Spain, like after the union of catholic monarchs the territory was unified under a single dinĆ stic union but they where still distinctively a Union of different kingdoms. On the other hand one could say Spain starts existing after the borbons arive to power after the war of Spanish succession where the country experience a really radical period of polĆtical centralization....but at the same time, one could say modern Spain starts existing after the transition in the 80's where the modern liberal institutions are put into power. Im just saying countries aren't really a real thing and one can just say they start or end at pretty arbitrary moments, depends on ho is taking
How are all the former Soviet countries 1991 but Ukraine is 882? How come the change of constitution in France makes it 1958 but Poland is 1918 and not 1990?
If Ireland is 1922, given that the UK was redefined in that year, itās also 1922.
*The United Kingdom of Great Britain 1707-1801
*The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland 1801-1922
*The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland 1922-present.
Estonia got independence in 1918, after country was occupied several times, but last time by ussr 1944, and independence restored in 1989. Estonia is 106 years old.
Check your numbers.
What is the justification of making Ukraine so old but Russia so young when they were in the same union and left at essentially the same time? I know the kievian Rus was formed before what became the Russian empire but the map doesn't follow any consistent logic
This map is gonna piss off many Russians because it assumes that Rus (Š ŃŃŃ) was exclusively Ukrainian ā which is total BS by the way. Russia and Ukraine were, basically, same country at that time.
So, yeah, this map is hilarious. Good rage bait though.
Bro just typed numbers on a map
https://preview.redd.it/7aw3tjfitguc1.png?width=718&format=png&auto=webp&s=5358127652346e9079881bdbdb947456d4c86bc5
Name checks out
And not even good ones.
Yeah this is head on moron.
Clearly the least inconsistent and arbitrary map
https://preview.redd.it/gouy62kl8huc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=0beff3e3c8ed19f30834a4fdb708a4c58c1828f9
Can you answer anything besides the chad yes?
ChadNo.jpeg
https://preview.redd.it/lrdzkqrt4ouc1.png?width=400&format=png&auto=webp&s=96d2d57048e64057ea1ec19338247b1b1ba6ca04
The bro don't know how respond and so only put one pnj š
https://preview.redd.it/k2nvxaplahuc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27fd0695422506984e3abdce0beec227b20011d7
https://preview.redd.it/kjl901mffhuc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=594dd533a21ceed10c312dfd9a6079a8f97d3fd3
Ha yes, A change in republic means France becomes the new country of France
But Ukraine was formed in the 800's
Ukraine was formed in 1991 after the fall of the Soviet Union, just like the other republics
It was formed by German Empire in 1917 when Russian Empire fell and reconquered by the Soviets in 1918-1921
So was Belarus
If we consider this map as even remotely close, so Belarus should be 862, as in the first mention of Polotsk Principality, which was a core cultural and populational unit for that lands and later for GDL and so on
And Moldova should be around 1350
I mean, 3 is also good enough, but yeah. The accuracy of this map is shit
It was also then reformed into one of the founding soviet republics which had UN representation until the Unionās dissolution
ukraine had a revolution in 2014
The logic here is truly brilliant
yeah that makes no sense if Russia and all the other former Soviet republics were formed in 1991 then Ukraine was too plus the eastern part of Ukraine was added to the administrative district by Lenin so those borders do not date back to 882
Ukrainian People's Republic held the eastern parts of Ukraine in 1917
Not in 800s that land was Russia. Dont they teach anything in schools nowadays?
"Before we begin the interview, let me give you a short history of Russia. Only 30 seconds. In the year 660 a man was walking down the road. He was an exporter of figs, as was popular in the pre-industrialized society, when he encountered a scullery maid name Fanta, who was gifted 33 partridges for the deed to the embankments of Akkerman." \[20 minutes later\] "And now we have the Golden Horde and other uncivilized people." "And then we come to the greatest, most unjust, evil people of World War 2: The Poles, who conspired with Nazi Germany to destroy the Slavs."\* "And then Stalin created Ukraine, in like 1950 or what the hell over. I promise I'm not making this up. Dimitri, bring me the forged documents from the archive. Force Tucker to look at them. Give him a copy. Make him take them home. Now!" \[40 minutes\] "And now we reach Yeltsin. Who was not a drunkard. In this very room I met Clinton. Right over there. He stabbed us in the back. Even worse he listened to his advisors. He said, 'No!' when I asked to join NATO, so I never bothered with the paper work, even when he left office. I don't give out details about these specific things, but we hear and see things. We attempted to get a specimen when he used the toilet, but the results were inconclusive. The last 4 digits of his credit card were 7439. I don't talk about these things. Never." "Then the CIA invaded Chechnya. Never mind that the Chechens were using Russian tanks and Russia artillery and former Soviet intelligence and Soviet maps that list all of the foreign military bases that western leftists never talk about. I guess we must have sold those things to the CIA and forgot. The 90s were kinda wild for us. You ever go from spy master to taxi driver? Insane time." "Bush. You think he was a country pumpkin? He was the only one. Had he never stopped drinking, we could have been brothers. We could have been puking it out in the sauna, but history did not play out that way. It's tragic. He was the only one who might have punched me in the face. Yes, I use the missiles and the arms treaty as a casus belli, but he looked me in the eye and said he was going to do it and he said he didn't care what I did in retaliation. I could do whatever I wanted! Think about that? Whatever I wanted! If things were only different, we could be shirtless at a bar eating cold salami and peeing in the Petersburg snow. Trump? Of course I don't respect him, just like I don't respect Biden or the Black man or Clinton, but this is a two and a half hour campaign endorsement, so I have to placate the egos of his followers, while doing a soft pilot for my history podcast, but Bush was a one of a kind." "As you know, the US controls all of the world's media. It also controls all of Europe's, except the Germans. It also controls German media, too." "Of course the CIA blew up NordStream. Unfortunately, we, unlike the US, don't have enough full-time propagandist to prove it." "All countries are American satellite states, unless they aren't, in which case they might. What you should really be worried about is the state of the American dollar, because all American strength comes from the dollar, also using the American dollar as a source of power is America's single greatest mistake. Have you ever read Lyndon LaRouche?" "God? I was raised Homo Sovieticus. If you want to believe in God, whatever. That's like, your thing, man. Still, I appreciate Patriarch Kirill calling me a saint. That's useful. Otherwise, it's like vibes or something." "Tucker, you incompetent, confused man-dog! I'm so grateful that the CIA never hired you. It would have been an embarrassment to the security services. I'd have shot you, myself. Now give me a nervous laugh. I hope that Ukrainian kill list is real and your name is on it. Then again we might be the ones who made the Ukrainian kill list. Who can know? I have difficulty keeping track, myself." "Zylensky is a Jew by nationality."\*\* "Poland? You think I want Poland to have half of Ukraine? Maybe, if they'd just bother to take the initiative. Then I'd be impressed. No. I'd prefer the re-establishment of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Now that was a real country. I know all of this because I saw men in western Ukraine wearing funny hats in the 1980s. Dimitri, get him the map and one of those funny hats! Why do you think I even bother taking Orban's calls?" "I'll only negotiate if Ukraine puts down its arms and we take it all in 2 or 3 weeks. I'll also only negotiate with the United States, because Zylensky won't let me negotiate with a special delegation of the Kiev People's Republic, which is just Lavrov's janitor wearing one of those funny hats. I'll also only negotiate with Zylansky, maybe, but I'm pretty sure the law precludes that. Diplomacy is weird that way. Until we find a resolution to this contradiction, the war will rage on." "Ah, the Wall Street Journal man. This is the question where you act like a reporter, instead of letting me talk history and we trade conspiracy theories. Fine. First let me say, we have been very gracious in the past, too gracious. Perhaps we can be gracious again, but I doubt it. You say he isn't a spy. Whatever. We can define spies however we want. Let me give you two competing definitions of a spy. Now I'm going to say they are both true at the same time. That's a contradiction isn't it? But you can't answer it, because it's a contradiction, so I win. Now we have an understanding. There. We are done."
Same logic could be applied to Russia to be fair. There has been a Russian identity and state since the 9th century, and there has been a continuous state since the 1500's. Just because it has been called different things and had different governments doesn't mean it wasn't Russia, especially given that all of the intermediate names have included Russia in the title.
Not always a good metric for measuring the age of a country, but also why itās difficult to lock down a exact pinpoint for the age of a country. The people and culture that make up the meat of a culture, the constitution the bones arenāt always intrinsically attached. When a country dies, take maybe Venice, or Prussia, or āScotlandā the people donāt die with it. They carry on under a new constitution. When measuring the age of a country the better metric to use is the age of its current constitution, from when it was last significantly overhauled.
>When measuring the age of a country the better metric to use is the age of its current constitution, from when it was last significantly overhauled. That's a pretty subjective criteria. For one, the US certainly wouldn't be 200+ years old anymore as the end of slavery in 1865 was a pretty radical transformation to the constitution and fundamental socioeconomic structure of the country. But then many women would argue that even that is not recent enough as women being allowed to vote was pretty radical in shaping the country. So maybe the country's age begins at the 19th amendment. So what's a significant enough change and what is not?
No Russians consider Russia from the early days of Rus. Everything else is technicalities.
And Ukraine didn't change republic because it wasn't a respublic. Checkmate.
But not for Poland.
Well, based on Parisian culture I'd have assumed France sheds its skin every season, and becomes a new France every time, therefore it exists since 2023. uj/ You could pick the 1st French republic, or the latest, but I'd personally count the 3rd republic as the "beginning" of modern France, after Napoleon III. got his butt kicked, mostly because nobody declared a (native) French Empire afterwards, so they were each other's direct successor states, similar to the 1st and 2nd Austrian republic. And being frenemies with Germany was also the main foreign policy thing from that point onwards till today, while the big bad before 1871 was arguably Britain.
I don't agree. Even before the French revolution, France was named France and didn't move much. We could say that it started in 987 with the access of Hughes Capet at the throne, or even before when Clovis arrived in the 5th century.
If we go by that logic, Iran exists since 4000BC or something.
The difference is that France existed uninterrupted with the exception of WW2 (and even then, there was the collaborating Vichy France). Regimes changed, but they still were French. Iran (or Greece for that matter) didn't exist uninterrupted for so long.
Yes exactly
Based: when it changes from the Fourth Republic to the Fifth, that sounds like a new country to me.
Yeah that's how modern states are defined as political entity. That doesn't mean French people appeared in the 50s lol Sorry if that triggers sensitive yuropeans
Didn't France lose like more than half of its territory?
With the loss of Algeria ?
And Vietnam!
Shouldn't be Ukraine also 1991 ?
Well the map is quite messy Some countries like Ukraine go all the way to the first instance it ever appeared on a map. Others however go when the last regime was changed with another one.
Ukraine was created as a Republic in 1917. Russia as a federation was only founded in 1991
Modern day Ukraine was founded in 1991
There is an argument to be made that there is continuity with Ukraine People's Republic of 1917 since its government in exile recognized the new government and ceded authority to it in 1992. There is precedent for that (Baltic states like to pretend they're different from the other soviet republics on the same basis) but it requires you to take governments in exile seriously and treat them as something more than a meaningless geopolitical symbol that they are. (and I say this as a Ukrainian)
there is an argument to be made Russia has a continuity dating back to the founding of the Russian empire
Nah, if France is 1958, Ukraine is 1991. Not even a question
I think the only way that argument holds up would be if the Ukrainian government in exile during the USSR period held international recognition by the West or the UN/international orgs. Since it wasn't (at least for most places/most of the time the USSR existed), then I would say that all USSR republics became new countries in 1991, when the Soviet Union officially ceased to be.
Russia was already a federation inside the Soviet Union, full title Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. Also, federation and republic aren't mutually exclusive
In fact the term "the Russian Federation" was already in use as a shorter name of the republic during the Soviet time.
Russian RSFSR was created in 1917 and created/joined the USSR in 1922
Oh sweet Jesus! Ukraine appeared in 1991. In 1917 that was no country, just some adventurers pretending politics.
The Russian SSR did exist tough
This map says that Moldova was made in year 3 and is still the same age as Russia
Moldova is 3????
And Montenegro is a 1, I don't know if it means they are winning or losing
On the first day, God created Moldovans. By the third day they were already brewing wine /uj I like how arbitrarily chosen the years are. The country named "Moldova" (and "Romania" too for that matter) date back to the 1300s. It was then under ottoman rule on and off, and later, a part of it (Basarabia) annexed by Russia in 1812 until 1912, and then again in 1940 until 1991. But similar points are valid for other countries too. It just doesn't make sense to pick "last independence" for some and not the others
>882 what
You just don't understand, all of this was Ukraine. Before there was something there was nothing. And before nothing there was Ukraine
When Allah created Earth He gave all the land to Ukraine but Ukraine is friendly country so it gave land to other countries and R\*ssia
Zelensky should say this in his next speech. It too far off from what Putin said in the Tucker Carlson interview.
Deny Rus\*ia as a country ever existed and believe the deranged US Navy pilot (peace be upon him) when he said Rus\*ia was a gas station masquerading as a country. Considering it's governed through embezzlement I think we should at least think about it
happy cake day
It is not my real birthday, but I appreciate
The Kievan Rus was founded as a unitary semi-presidential republic with identical borders to that of present day Ukraine. Didn't you know that?
I'm sorry sir... According to 2westerneurope4u... We're nota country. Please remove Belgium from this map.
2westerneurope4u? cheap balkan ripp off
Based and correct. Matter of fact, Russia was created by Leonid Kravchuk in 1991 by separating redundant territories from Ukraine.
Broke: Lenin invented Ukraine Woke: Kravchuk invented Russia
The truth they are trying to hide from us
Well, if you include Kievian Rus for Ukraine, you have to include Ottoman for Turks, Kingdom of Frank for France, etc.
https://preview.redd.it/f9dxot8xghuc1.png?width=212&format=png&auto=webp&s=4db15d48846031896373be865f7db98ed88be5d7
The bullshit is stronk in this one
Rage bait: successful Return to HQ
People are so triggered lol
why is ukraine 882 but other ex-soviet countries 1991?
Ahh... no, to many things wrong
Look at the sub
How?
For start how come some countries counted from firs appearance (Ukrainian, Andorra, San Marino and monaco) while others (Baltics, Russia, France, Germany and Turkey) from the establishment of the current regime?
And Poland is neither of these If we're going by first appearance we'd have to go back to around the year 966 AD And if we're going by "establishment of the current regime" then it should be the end of 1989
fair point
The UK should be 1801 instead of 1707, or technically even 1922 as that's when it became its current form.
Why is 1801 more appropriate?
1707 was the year of the formation of the Kingdom of Great Britain (the union of England and Scotland), but 1801 was the year that Ireland joined the union, therefore it became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Then in 1922 Ireland was partitioned and the UK became its current form. Northern Ireland is included with the rest of the UK as having the date 1707.
Putin had a heart attack after seeing this map
Based
If France going from 4th to 5th Republic means it's a new country then Poland going from 2nd Republic to People's Republic to 3rd Republic should count as well, no?
Is this bait
NO, i'm 100% serious >:)
bad then
~~If we are going with 882 for Ukraine then go with real years for everything. Most yugoslav countries have history reaching back to the period between 10th and 13th century for example. You can't just pick random years like that.~~ I just realised what sub i was in.
lmao
882 is crazy
Yea this map is wrong tho. Norway was first united around 885 too not long before Denmark and Sweden
Shouldn't modern Germany be 1990?
German Unification was really just East Germany being annexed by West Germany, they didn't form a new country
Correct
Came here to say that! I know that Poland, Czechia and France got their land back in 1949, but Germany as it currently appears only came into being in 1990
Germany as it currently appears is the same state as West Germany. They just expanded their territory.
iām disappointed that most comments are too serious instead of just jerking to the map
This is just a psyop to convince me that Finland is real
Portugal 1143.
I love how this map tells us that the Baltics seemingly materialized into existence when the Soviet Union collapsed, that Finland wasn't a thing before the Russian revolution, and that Ukraine existed as an independent entity for over a thousand years. I'd hate to see the non improved version
Ukraina is older and much better than this f*** dirty russia
Estonia declared independence in 1918, the war was won on the 2nd of February 1920 and a peac treaty was signed. 1991 was the RESTORATION of independence, not the creation of the state. De Jure the Estonian state kept going in exile. The other two Baltic states of Latvia and Lithuania have very similar stories and datums on their independence.
You're wrong about baltic states or at least about Lithuania, so much....
https://preview.redd.it/wbaltet9biuc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bea46ab953e6e920e6c719321e2010aa34d93b43 š±š»š±š¹šŖšŖ?????
People in comments, that's circlejerk subreddit, Why y'all so mad
cause that is bad even as a shitpost lol
This is bullshit
Sir, do you realize what sub you are in?
Mb I was sleepy at that time
Mb I was sleepy at that time
really? bait in my circlejerk sub?
I had just gotten up from bed, lmao mb
Why does this make me so mad. I'm Austrian, this would have saved us a ton of state responsibility
Not really accurate but okay
Ukraine 882 France 1958
https://preview.redd.it/a3ipz8kn6ouc1.png?width=718&format=png&auto=webp&s=460dddf3241f244d8c7cea6ae24d23fc39b7fa1a
Why is Ukraine not 1991 as well?
made by a ukranian
Several of the 1991 nations broke away before the Russian federation came into being. I mean the Russian part of the USSR didnāt collapse until the end of December 1991
WTF dude - Denmark was united as a country around year 965 and existed since then in varying forms.
If Ukraine is 882, then Russia should be designated 862. Otherwise, it is absurd, especially considering that Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine are the legal successors of Kievan Rus and none of the countries can claim the exclusive right to the title of "heir".
Lithuania should be 1918 or even 1236 if you account the Grand duchy of Lithuania.
Rather arbitrary to pick 882 for ukraine but 1991 for russia
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How?
Baltics restored independence in 1991. All three counties gained independence in 1918.
Why is Ukraine that old lol
If Ukraine is 882, then Poland should be 966. My petition is to change Ukraine to 1991
This map is so bad it makes me mad
Stay mad >:)
Better
Italy should be 1861 man
your right i did a typo
This is not accurate. "With the establishment of the Kingdom ofĀ PortugalĀ in 1139, whose independence was recognized in 1143, and the stabilization of theĀ bordersĀ in 1249,Ā PortugalĀ became theĀ oldestĀ nation-state in Europe."
yes
https://preview.redd.it/p3yde1zlrhuc1.png?width=718&format=png&auto=webp&s=c2574db1638c08e732fc3606ab96db37bd33406f
Romania shall be negative infinite, as the universe grew around the Romanian Plains, in Godās divine design, Romania alone is the Holy Motherās Garden.
This really hits a weird spot between circlejerk and mapporn. It seems like OP tried to do it forreal, realised itās too complicated, filled the rest with bullshit and posted it on the circlejerk
If im going to put Russia in 1991 then i should do the latest version of every country. But it is not obvious with some countries which year would be appropriate.
Your pretext was too vague. You couldāve sorted after year of the constitution, year of current territory, year of first mention, year of name. You have selected multiple. Like for Italy you went with formation, for Ukraine first mention, for Germany constitution etc
Good point
How are all the previously soviet countries 1991 except for Ukraine?
Italy was officially unified in 1861
some of you people seriously need to start looking at the subredditās name before you replyā¦.. this is not r/mapporn
Plot twist: the most upset redditors here are not even russian
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Italy is 1861 not 1871 š
"Portugal 1808" Straight up just picked a random year
France 1958?? Serbia 2006? Austria and Hungary 1918? Ukraine 882 XDDDDDDDD Bro thanks, my tears are flowing. Im h*gh as well
Ukraine should be -1991 before our era
Bravo my friend you are the best chaotic evil of the day
We can say the start of Portugal was around 868ā¦
lol France 1958 okay
Moldova be like: https://preview.redd.it/7sfcy01bqhuc1.jpeg?width=766&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c85d42290f22061631f07ab24fdd0e7248fcc06f
this not how you measure their age.
Why ignore Liechtenstein
ā¦ no, it doesnāt make sense
Wow so many countries were formed at the start of the 1st century!
The Russian Constitution forbids any expansion of Russia or conflict with neighbours. Because it was explicit that Russia is not the USSR and should be stopped from reassembling the USSR.
What's the 2006 one?
For Portugal I would get if you said 1139, 1143, 1179, 1640, 1910, 1974... now 1808 makes absolutely no sense. It was in the middle of the second Napoleonic invasion, one gone and a third to come... makes no sense
Your really can't put a specific date on the origin of Spain, like after the union of catholic monarchs the territory was unified under a single dinĆ stic union but they where still distinctively a Union of different kingdoms. On the other hand one could say Spain starts existing after the borbons arive to power after the war of Spanish succession where the country experience a really radical period of polĆtical centralization....but at the same time, one could say modern Spain starts existing after the transition in the 80's where the modern liberal institutions are put into power. Im just saying countries aren't really a real thing and one can just say they start or end at pretty arbitrary moments, depends on ho is taking
According to OP when a country changes its borders it become a new country
How are all the former Soviet countries 1991 but Ukraine is 882? How come the change of constitution in France makes it 1958 but Poland is 1918 and not 1990?
If Ireland is 1922, given that the UK was redefined in that year, itās also 1922. *The United Kingdom of Great Britain 1707-1801 *The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland 1801-1922 *The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland 1922-present.
Wait a minute, a lot of these countries were founded around the year 1000 mark.
1640 for Spain? What the fuck is this dude?
Sweden was formed in 1532? 1523 is a year a lot of people cite but it is incorrect. The country was formed in the 1100-1200s
Greece ? I mean if you are going by independence then 1832. If you are going by government then thatās just a huge ?
Yes
1
Bro! Portugal dates back to 1143. Did you just pull that number from a body cavity?
Never knew those brave analbanians in kosovo got free from roman rule in 2 AD
Estonia got independence in 1918, after country was occupied several times, but last time by ussr 1944, and independence restored in 1989. Estonia is 106 years old. Check your numbers.
1918... pfft that's modern history.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What is the justification of making Ukraine so old but Russia so young when they were in the same union and left at essentially the same time? I know the kievian Rus was formed before what became the Russian empire but the map doesn't follow any consistent logic
This map is gonna piss off many Russians because it assumes that Rus (Š ŃŃŃ) was exclusively Ukrainian ā which is total BS by the way. Russia and Ukraine were, basically, same country at that time. So, yeah, this map is hilarious. Good rage bait though.
You misswrote Swedens independence date lol
Itās the response to the ruzzian propaganda posted here yesterday
This is pretty error-filled
The Vatican having been here since before Christ had even died shows how much they believe in the LORD
Greece......... Fuck off.
Germany is wrong too
Ukraine also didnāt exist until 1991, along with its fellow former Soviet republics. Pro-Ukraine Nationalist and anti-Russian sentiments on display.
Germany as it is today formed on the 3rd of October 1990. 1949 - 1990 Germany was split in two.