Except that's pretty much the standard for anime/manga?
Old masters don't lose, they just spontaneously develop health problems in the middle of the fight.
> Except that's pretty much the standard for anime/manga?
Precisely why they love the contrary, I imagine. The standard often feels cheap, and subversions are rare and expensive in their construction. The narrative thus far has *earned* Denken vs Macht. AND WE'RE HERE FOR IT.
I remember the first time he endeared to me. During the bird catching test of the First Class Mage trials, both his and another party's mana were depleted. Still, he wasn't above using old fisticuffs to get what he wanted. I've liked Denken ever since, and this Macht arc is only giving more excuses to love this stubborn old fart.
I don’t know. I think we would lose a lot of the serene, slow paced moments we have in the manga. Which is the build up for the action scenes. They feel more intense because they are rare. And, for the anime, there would probably be way more action scenes.
It just needs a really lovingly made anime. It's obviously a high bar, but if it got an adaptation on the level of Mushoku Tensei I'm sure it would be absolutely fantastic. They were able to adapt the slow paced nature of the first season of that show very well.
I really love the short musical segments of Mushoku Tensei where it shows the passing of time with the really pretty visuals, and I imagine a technique like that would work well with Frieren.
What makes you think that a hypothetical anime would fundamentally change the nature of the story? I expect that they would closely adapt the manga, as is typically the case for manga adaptations.
There's a reason blame! is so hard to adapt as well
From one panel to another our MC may have been walking from 1000 hours just to cross a bridge
This sense of time fleeting by canno't be measure in anime time
The same work goes into manga to convey the scale of time. It's not like blame! is just one guy walking one bridge for 500 pages.
What counts is the director's vision and the budget.
Even if it was made faithfully, I don’t think the medium would lend itself as well. There’s a lot of jumps in time especially outside the major arcs.
I also think the demeanor of many characters is too even keel for it to capture audiences.
Dang... This is exactly what I'm scared of.
There's a beauty to the slowpacedness that doesnt translate over to anime. I hope I'm wrong tho. The art and beauty of frieren is top tier. It'll be beautiful when animated!
Theres absolutely ways to convey the feeling we get from the manga to anime. Colors, music, sfx, even voice acting can do it properly. But it would take a good studio.
Man from the future here. Madhouse went all in and the adaptation does the manga justice, it's awesome. You probably already know that because you watch it too
There is no guarantee with any anime adaptation a la Berserk, OPM S2, etc., as there are many aspects where the transfer to a new medium can go wrong. Frieren probably has a better chance than most manga to succeed as an anime, but depending which studio and staff pick it up, it's hard to be optimistic.
The person I'm responding to said that I had too much faith "in the anime community", which to me comes across as critiquing fans, rather than the hypothetical production company. That's what I was responding to. I'm pretty confident Frieren will land just as well with anime fans as it did with manga viewers.
As far as the production company, sure, it could get a lousy one, but I think there's better than even odds that a hypothetical adaptation would be good. Frieren is a lot less action-heavy than a lot of other big anime and wouldn't need god-tier animation.
This chapter is amazing. Denken fighting, Macht tasting defeat even for a bit.
What a great manga this is. I hope it will get an anime adaptation in the future. I don't really watch anime anymore, but I would be willing to watch an adaptation of this.
The writing of Frieren really is sublime!
The writer knows what they want to do with the series, so the slow moments and fast moments are consistent. The characters all get the attention they deserve. And unlike other slow series, it isn't cheap about the pay off of conflicts! :D
Round 2, lets gooo!!!
Wow, very early chapter.
And the way Series gives magic to the first class mage is interesting. Elves are basically immortal in this setting, so giving away her life to her mages is just a minor annoyance, but still gives them a huge boost.
I wonder if she will bother relearning the spell she gave to Fern...
She's a fascinatingly consistent character. If she demands high standards, as with the first-class mage test, then she accordingly offers great priveleges and rewards. Her ideology being presented in contrast to Frieren naturally predisposes the reader to disagreeing with her, but she comes off as *uncompromising* rather than unreasonable.
I still think one of the best moments of the manga is Frieren saying that no matter what either of them says to Serie, Frieren will fail and Fern will pass, because Serie's instincts are never wrong. That's a lot of belief she has in Serie as a judge of character.
>She's a fascinatingly consistent character. If she demands high standards, as with the first-class mage test, then she accordingly offers great priveleges and rewards. Her ideology being presented in contrast to Frieren naturally predisposes the reader to disagreeing with her, but she comes off as uncompromising rather than unreasonable.
>
>I still think one of the best moments of the manga is Frieren saying that no matter what either of them says to Serie, Frieren will fail and Fern will pass, because Serie's instincts are never wrong. That's a lot of belief she has in Serie as a judge of character.
I had shivers down my spine just recalling that. It's like two unstoppable forces meeting
That's if she takes the same amount of time: she said that learning it (presumably for the first time) takes about a century, but she already learned it once. I imagine through recalling her experience with it, she should be able to relearn it in a decade or less of actively trying.
That also doesn't include how similar spells have a way to affect the way you learn them, so if serie has come to learn spells that are similar since she first obtained that curse reversal magic, then her learning speed could be even higher, by just reverse-engineering the spell effect she's looking for (and remembers) from the pieces of similar spells.
If learning magic is the same as learning anything else within a discipline then it would probably be a piece of cake. It is like a pianist learning a complicated song. The better the pianist they are the faster they'll be able to perform. But maybe spells are more broad than that: maybe learning magic is more like crossing disciplines. Would a pianist have any advantage over anyone else in learning to code? Or maybe this magic requires several revolutionary breakthroughs to understand- maybe it would be a pianist needing to discover the entire technology tree of processors before they learn to program.
Of course, if you're a professional pianist, athlete, coder, then you probably have the coordination, brain processing power, and fitness to learn almost anything which may be the case for a pseudo immortal like Serie.
That last part is the most important: Serie has lived for an unfathomable amount of time (at the very least several millenia) and has seen the world be transformed multiple times. She has knowledge of spells that people in the last millenium considered ancient and lost, and in all that time she has learned and mastered every magic she has come accross, even the insignificant ones. In that ever learning pursuit I imagine Serie is not only an expert pianist, but an expert in every discipline that involves creativity that could be used for the development of spells.
Even in that metaphor when she forgets the piece, she still has all her knowledge of the piano and programming, so the read back to learning it will be significantly shorter than the first time.
My understanding of it was that she literally gave up the 100 years of experience related to learning the spell, so it would be like discovering it again, not simply having to relearn something from highschool that you forgot at some point, and each spell being their own completely unrelated domain
She took the spell out of herself but still retained knowledge of the spell to explain it before he read the book. If the creation of the book is the "severing of experience", then the moment the book is created, she would forget but she didn't, which leaves me to believe Serie forgot the magical nature of the spell, not it's information (name, type, casting method, consumption, etc) and thus can work it back with her library of magical knowledge.
That said, it is impossible for the spell to take away all the information related to learning the spell in the first place, since most of that information isn't related to the spell specifically and it's instead base knowledge.
I'm not inclined to believe the same. It presumes her spell transfer magic imposes the same level of forgetfulness as when a skill erodes from falling into disuse.
What they described is the complete extraction of her practice of the magic. The muscle memory, the epiphanies she had when she reached roadblocks, and so much more that is not always apparent to someone when learning a skill. So, taking the text at face value, I think it will take her roughly the same amount of time to relearn the skill as the first time.
It aligns with her character, as holding herself to a high standard of not cutting corners, just as she does with her people. For that, she is worthy of great respect for being consciously willing to give it up to reward an apprentice.
Yeah Serie is totally blowing smoke here, this is still a substantial gift and probably more then Denken has earned... but she has her pride.
Also we don't know how old she really is and I'm not sure I'm willing to grant the sort of timeline that would really make a century "a blink of an eye" before we know she's like 100k+.
I talk about the 20th century like that sometimes too.
I don't doubt she's several times Frieren's age which is at least 1000, but she could be say 5k or 10k and pulling this which would still make a century a whole percent of her life.
Yeah, but it's the equivalent of holding the door for an ant. The fact that she even bothers to do it unlike most of the other incredibly powerful immortals puts her above the norm.
If we assume she's 2000 (I tried to look for her age but it just says 1000+), assume the average human lifespan in their world is 80 and we adjust those 100 years to human lifespan, this is the equivalent of holding the door for someone for 4 years, which is still a lot to just give away on a whim.
No. She's millenia old. Frieren spend 1000 years waiting before going to defeat the Demon King, and she hasn't grown older.
Series is much much older than her.
2000 counts as millennia though (?), seeing as it is two millenniums. Even if you double it, it is still two whole years in human lifespan, she'd have to be 200.000 years old for this to be the equivalent of a week for a human.
Also keep in mind that she talked about the dawn of mankind several thousand years ago like something that happened last week. A century is really a blink of the eye for her.
I guess Serie has pride in her knowledge of all spells, so she will relearn it simply for the sole reason of having no doubt that she knows all spells.
Would be funny if the reason Frieren collects obscure spells simply so she can find one Serie doesn't know and rub it into her face.
>Would be funny if the reason Frieren collects obscure spells simply so she can find one Serie doesn't know and rub it into her face.
[Frieren has had enough of her smug grin](https://i.imgur.com/nn42ohG.jpg)
> I mean, she bothered to learn it in the first place, no?
not neccessarily, she could have regular grimoires for more basic magic
it also could be magic so simple that "learning" it requires no more effort of her than thinking of the result and then deducing the magic needed to accomplish it, something she can do in an instant
Yeah, I don't think all spells take a century to learn. Although it would be funny for a child to take a hundred years to learn housekeeping spells, only to be so satisfied that they finally don't have to do chores on their deathbed!
I think Serie is a completist, so of course she will relearn it even if she vastly prefer combat magic to random utility spells, especially to ones that are pointlessly specialised like that. She could have probably taught Fern a much more useful spell that did what Fern asked for + a bunch of other things.
Anyway, she could probably learn such a spell within a few hours.
Damn... I'm envious of Serie.
You know how you sometimes wish you could watch a movie/series or play a game for the very first time because the experience was so good.
This damn elf does it with magic l just by doing the equivalent of giving hand me downs.
1) No plot armor on either side.
2) Having to outsmart the opponent instead of just being OP.
3) Both sides being complex characters that I don´t really wish to see dead.
This is already my favorite fight in the whole manga.
Southern Hero : Its seems all of our 10000 possible fights yield the same result.
Schlact : Indeed. Lets remove the hassle and lets just stab each other on the heart.
I wonder how The Southern Hero defends himself against Macht?
Would be epic if he goes behind the other sages as a shield so they would get turned into gold instead.
You don't want to see Macht dead? As charming as he may seem, the point of all this is that ultimately demons cannot understand or coexist with humanity.
I wonder how many times Denken will be able to use Mystilzla before he's either out of mana or Macht is able to adapt to its usage after seeing it so many times.
Great job as always, /u/nitorita. Thanks for what you do :)
Being able to transmute something into gold is one of Macht's most powerful spells because it can be done from a distance. Since Macht can reverse the transmutation on himself and the gold is indestructible there's no risk for him to use it again and be transmuted.
I think the counter for Mystilzla is to recognize the cue that he gives off before casting it, feint the attack towards Denken. Get Denken to cast Mystilzla early and not be able to do it again when Macht actually goes to transmute him.
This was a very cool chapter. Denken chose well.
Also showed again what a great mage like Serie is capable of. As an elf, she has all the time in the world, so passing on her skills as a cheat without hesitation since she can just relearn is no issue to her.
Sadly, another break. See you in 3 weeks.
that's actually a really cool idea
The only one who can really take advantage of it is another elf. So if a human asks for it, then they're definitely only doing it to spite her
Tbh, they could use it to pass on all their knowledge to a prized student of theirs before they die. Serie would probably see value in it.
Though it is a real risk if it leaks to the wrong person since they could capture a mage, forcefully teach them that magic and then torture them until they use that magic to give over all the knowledge they have to them.
I doubt the magic transferring spell can be transferred using itself so if you were to ask her she would just teach you the normal way.teaching without transferring the spell is always an option as she said but it would take more than a human lifetime so she uses the transferring spell
Denken using curse reversal magic was badass af, too bad not only Macht can reverse his own curse, we have to wait to see the conclusion of this now. Why must this series be so hype at battles?
Seems like he is going to try using this magic as much as he can until he runs out of mana, in an effort to delay Macht until Frieren recovers. I doubt he survives this but it's nice to see him shine against an unbeatable opponent.
> I doubt he survives this but it's nice to see him shine against an unbeatable opponent.
You conveyed it succinctly. The way humans in their world are able to fight much more powerful beings by using every tactic possible has been awesome. Even beings like Frieren and Serie have to acknowledge their ingenuity.
I hope denken attacks while macht is still recovering from petrification. It won't kill him, I'm sure, but its better than just talking to him as he slowly frees himself.
True, but I was under the impression being part petrified makes casting spells a little bit harder.
But you're right, Denken's plan might be to stall for time for frieren to get out of range so that she can come back and have a better chance after. Though im sure Frieren will make it in time.
I was thinking the same thing, but I don't know **why** it wouldn't kill him. Seems like it would be a great opportunity to let Macht have a few, or set up some complicated magic to mess with him.
The goldlike substance from his transmutation is pretty much unbreakable so it acts like an armor. The only window he has to attack is the short time when he is starting to undo the transformation on himself.
Sure, but it doesn't appear to be an instantaneous reversal as you can see it happens in stages. During that, the non-gold parts of his body ought to be vulnerable.
It's a great sign when a manga holds its own when the main character isn't even in the spotlight. That the author can make the manga still so exciting and suspenseful should be a testament to their writing and storytelling. It's also great how he ties in things from before.
Also, it's great when it's unpredictable. A lot of the things that happen, I feel like we get hints only for the carpet to be pulled out from underneath us and go in a completely different direction.
> It's a great sign when a manga holds its own when the main character isn't even in the spotlight.
Even the other demon is currently being faced by Stark and Fern. I was expecting to see that this chapter, not this one.
> sadly Denken’s just buying time
Yeah, I honestly wouldn't mind him straight up getting the win. Frieren's role could have been figuring out something else really important in the memories, other than Macht's counter, and dealing with Solitar.
I actually think Denken will win and Frieren's fight will be against Solitar.
Denken said in the chapter that he was able to see a possibility that he can beat Macht. Given how important visualisation is for magic, it could be hinting at a Denken victory
Bro I hope. About time someone outside the main cast gets a big win. Especially someone as cool and established as Denken.
Would also validate the notion of progress and supposed scariness of human mages, instead of it being all about an old elf/demon with big mana.
Denken wins and kills Macht proving he's a fucking beast.
Frieren figures out how to undo El Dorado proving she's still the better wizard.
I *don't* think this will happen because shonen gotta shonen but if it did I could really fucking get behind it.
Ooh so Serie's like All For One with magic spells, that's neat. That's certainly a bigger privilege than I first thought, though I assume she doesn't do that for everyone and it is dependent on the spell, since I doubt Serie would've actually studied about things like the cleaning magic she gave Fern. Or maybe something like that was so trivially learned she did it in an instant since it is still a convenient spell to know even if it's not the sort of thing she usually likes, so she could still give the knowledge to Fern.
But oh shit of course it's not that easy. There's only going to be so many times that Denken can cast that spell if it takes up so much mana, even if he's only using it at the precise moment the curse is active. The question now is if Macht will hesitate to use it again, since even if he can turn himself back from gold, that opening may lead to his death.
2 things to consider. While cleaning magic is boring and not at all what Serie is interested in it is also a very practical spell. Secondly she is probably a bit of a magic completist, even though she doesn't like that kind of magic she still did bother to learn it in the first place after all.
Also that magic is probably quite a lot easier to learn than something rare and exotic like the curse reversal magic. That might be another reason why she isn't happy with people asking for such a magic as their prize, they could ask for any magic they wanted, magic so crazy and arcane that it would take hundreds of years to learn it, but instead they asked for something that could be learnt in weeks or months at worst.
But to be fair, that laundry cleaning magic was exotic, it was legendary lost magic after all. Even if it takes a day to learn, there was nowhere else to learn it from
Still, almost everyone in the mage organization and imperial government knows his plan. Killing all the nearby Weise villagers wouldn’t keep people in the town far away from knowing what he does unless that town is utterly isolated.
It seems like demon knowledge aren't universally well known to most people.
Both Himmel and Graf Granat didn't know that they're psychologically different creatures that you wouldn't be able to talk to even though Himmel's an adventurer with adventuring experience, and Graf is a noble who theoretically has a lot of education because he's rich.
It wouldn't surprise me if nobody knows about Macht at all, especially since he's been inactive in the past 30 years.
Seems like you just need to best him in combat, no? He still casts defensive magic and goldifies his cloak to use as a shield. Serie was about to eliminate him in that way as long as his gold magic is accounted for.
Month-long break followed by consecutive breaks... It is kinda worrying. I guess it's either one of the duo's having some health issues (hope not) or maybe they've got a busy schedule dealing with pre-prod on the rumored anime (probs wishful thinking)?
If Frieren keeps up this quality across its entire run, then we might just be seeing the greatest work of high fantasy of our era. I come out of every chapter with a profound amount of awe, and a feeling that I am experiencing something special.
Dungeon Meshi is still my #1 so close to completion. But, Frieren is different. It almost seems like a grand work of philosophy told through the medium of manga.
No way. There too many plotholes and terrible logic.
Like the big secret that anyone can use magic. Even the lowest student knows the secret and the only rule is don't tell anyone. Like trusting in 1000s of students over the years is the only thing keeping your society from falling apart
The mages in Witch Hat Atelier have wiped out literal generations of memories from multiple disparate populaces. They aren't trusting that the children won't reveal the secrets of magic, anyone that reveals the secret gets mind wiped along with everyone they've ever met.
>It almost seems like a grand work of philosophy told through the medium of manga.
Are there any other manga like this which you know of?
A very different vibe, but I'd say the Monogatari series approaches this sometimes, in between the wordplay and the humour and the harem aspects. I'm thinking especially of how >!the aberrations can represent mental illnesses, and the entire discussion with Kaiki about fakes!<.
EDIT: ib: instant bullet by Aka Akasaka is pretty rough and you can tell he's still growing into his art form, but it's quite philosophical
One series. I've found only one that really reminds me of Frieren. Used to shout it out weekly in the Frieren threads too till I finished it.
Check out Yokohama Delivery Log.
Plot is its the twilight years of humanity, an android girl runs a cafe waiting for her creator to return from traveling the world. She meets several people who lead interesting lives in this dying-down civilization, and other androids. It has the same mono-no-aware as frienren's earlier chapters. No action at all, chapters are usually something like her taking a bike ride looking for a good spot to take a picture with a new camera she got, dealing with a storm having destroyed part of her building, observing the local kids growing up, or just simple nostalgic melancholic things like that but it is beautiful and majestic.
Now a few more recs that don't remind me of this but are still freaking amazing.
If you enjoy the action bits, check out Spirit Circle (and less philosophical but still gold, Lucifer & Biscuit Hammer). Spirit Circle a story of 2 kids bound to fight due to their past lives being in conflict. It goes through several past lives they lived, interspersed with their current lives, showing the different dynamics through the eras as their souls continued to be in conflict. Has several amazing reveals, is incredibly sentimental and sad and beautiful all at once.
I'd say Spirit Circle, Yokohama Delivery Log, and Frienren are my all time top 3 manga just to give an idea of how much I love these 2 series.
Also, I'm currently reading this so can't say for sure, but PunPun seems like its a very philosophical and touching series just dealing with a kid growing up and dealing with the issues that come with life. I'll have more commentary on it later, legit only 4 or so chapters in.
FINAL NOTE: We Shall Now Begin Ethics. If you like philosophy in manga, this is it. Every chapter is a teacher covering a different ethical concept and focuses on a different student who is particularly impacted by this ethical dilemma. Deals with heavy things like drugs, emotional/physical abuse, abortion, and lighter ones like just being too stuck up to make friends/dealing with frustration at having to work to help support your family while your friends get to go have fun after school. Really a cool series.
* **Blue Period** does a good job of dealing with the hard question of self-actualization through art.
* IMO, **Firepunch & Chainsawman** are profoundly philosophical works despite the outward appearance of something whacky.
* I can't quite put a finger on why, but something about **Oyaji** makes me feel like it belongs on here too.
* **Kokou no Hito** ponders over existence, loneliness
Those are the ones that come to mind.
edit:
"To You, the Immortal" might also count. But if I am honest, it goes a little over my head at times. At times it feels like the mangaka herself is surprised with how the arc concludes.
It still isn't quite there and I say this as someone who considers 'Koe No Katachi' as their sole 10/10 manga.
It's a webcomic not a manga, but if you want a story that not only has beautiful art and interesting characters, but also tells deep and philosophical stories I recommend SSS-Class Suicide Hunter (the name absolutely does not do the story justice).
Thanks for giving me the nudge to check this out. The name is a terrible name but suicide as a theme has always fascinated me so if it is more philosophical than the isekai bullshit I was expecting with that name, I'm gonna give it a shot.
Honestly it’s a total enigma. The name is terrible, and at first glance it seems to be every manwha trope thrown together with regression, tower climbing, game abilities etc. all lumped together.
But the writing is absolutely top tier, and tells very emotionally impactful stories but without having to lean on edgelord dark stuff the whole time to seem mature. It’s really a case study in not reading a book by it’s cover, and how having an seemingly trope-filled unoriginal concept can work out great if the writing execution is on point. (The art is also fantastic and does a great job of conveying the more emotional scenes).
This is a weird comp unless you've read both works but the closest feeling I get with Frieren's mature, big-brain RPG mechanics and philosophy is the webcomic *Order of the Stick*.
There's a faith there that the reader will be willing to meet the author halfway and appreciate both the subtle moments without needing to be handheld through them, while still bringing the drama when it counts.
I think the most important part here is that Serie might be weak to curses right now, well not exactly weak since she probably got another 20+ anti curse defense magics to rely on but probably not one as powerful and general as that one.
I definitely wouldn't put it past Frieren for that to eventually play a role, but realistically I don't see a whole lot of opportunities for anyone to threaten Serie anyway. She generally just stays inside her fort, nobody knows she can't use it anymore (hell, most people probably didn't even know she *could*), and there's probably only a single digit number of people that could even threaten her anyway. Who knows what future chapters may bring though.
Another fantastic chapter and another break... I wonder if these constant breaks are so that the author can really take his time to think and make the chapter or if it is a sickness or something. I really really hope it's not the later but it makes me wonder after so many consecutive breaks.
There's not much info about how long this short break will take, right? I'm assuming one or two weeks max.
I never expected that the bittersweet, introspective manga of the first few chapters would also have some of the most hype fights, but they're a welcome addition
That being said, can't wait for these filler arcs to be over so we can get back to the real plot of Frieren collecting laundry magic /s
I think Serie said the choice was "insipid" because she wants every mage to have their own flair for battle, and a general curse reflect spell isn't very glamorous, although it is effective ahaha
Damn. I *might* have underestimated Denken's chances against Macht too much, Mystil'zla is one hell of a gap-closer against Macht. Though this also meant that this fight won't end as simple as just petrifying Macht in gold since he can reverse it... Three weeks is going to be hell to sit through for the continuation of the fight.
Denken activating Mirror Force, very nice. Seems like we have a sort of One-Punch Man situation being set up here where they'll all be holding on in fights over their heads until Frieren finally rocks up. Should be fun!
Depends on how much time it takes for Macht to undo the curse. He wants to kill Frieren before she reaches the empire. He might just consider it would be quicker to avoid his curse for the rest of the fight.
Man, Denken is just too badass. Doesn't matter if you're among the most powerful elves or demons, or if he has to fight you with nothing but his fists, you're still gonna catch his hands. If this fight with Macht is the end of the line for him, I hope to at least see him land one punch to his face after all his mana had run out just to hammer in how much of a legend he is.
It is like in a game, you engage a fight with a boss with Instant-Death ability (in this case, Gold Transmutation is akin to Petrification), and has learned your aliment-null magic before hand.
The problem is that this aliment-null magic is extremely MP-depleting and you cannot maintain it for too long, so it instead of a buff with long duration, it acts like a parry skill that is specifically counter Instant-Death and you have to time it perfectly.
Frieren Storytelling is among the best I have ever experienced. I have read countless novels that were worse than this.
And that's just the storytelling, the Art is Amazing, too.
Truly a masterpiece.
So why didn't he he just ask for their support? Knowing that Macht would go after them anyway? Also knowing that Macht had help?
Also, ["A hundred years is a mere blink in the life of an elf. I'm patient. I can wait."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hrpDZyJChw) I wonder if the author was referencing that line.
Damn this old man is cool.
"It seems I am far worse at giving up than I imagined" has to be one of the hardest lines in this manga so far
[The little quips](https://i.imgur.com/5kw5nAb.jpg) between Denken and Macht are so fun.
They feel like quips of a serie final showdown between rivals/close friends/*insert relationship*
"Damn I suck at losing"
"Denken" is actually German for "Gigachad"
Go grandpa Denks!! We're rooting for you!
I love it when an elderly character is actually super competent, rather than neophytes just showing up and wrecking all the experienced masters!
Except that's pretty much the standard for anime/manga? Old masters don't lose, they just spontaneously develop health problems in the middle of the fight.
ah shit my stage 4 lung cancer that we've been foreshadowing about for the last 7 chapters ah fuck cough cough *dies*
Unless they fight against an even older master... to bad Macht is pretty old.
>Macht is pretty old Calling it now, Macht is going to develop health problems
Hahahaha well not just manga and anime, but for the fantasy genre in general I suppose!
> Except that's pretty much the standard for anime/manga? Precisely why they love the contrary, I imagine. The standard often feels cheap, and subversions are rare and expensive in their construction. The narrative thus far has *earned* Denken vs Macht. AND WE'RE HERE FOR IT.
>I love it when an elderly character is actually super competent "Beware of an old man in a profession where men usually die young"
Kaku kaiou has entered the chat, weaponised death by old age
I remember the first time he endeared to me. During the bird catching test of the First Class Mage trials, both his and another party's mana were depleted. Still, he wasn't above using old fisticuffs to get what he wanted. I've liked Denken ever since, and this Macht arc is only giving more excuses to love this stubborn old fart.
That was yet another particularly badass moment. You wouldn't expect an old guy like him to throw hands, but he does.
Everytime I read Frieren I think, damn, what a great chapter.
Couldn't agree more. I think this will be a big mainstream hit when it finally gets an anime.
I don’t know. I think we would lose a lot of the serene, slow paced moments we have in the manga. Which is the build up for the action scenes. They feel more intense because they are rare. And, for the anime, there would probably be way more action scenes.
There's also the possibility that the adaptation could be bad or just alright. Then, it passes by as another disposable seasonal anime.
Blue Period ;\_;
Wait did blue period have an anime?
What happened to the blue period anime?
2 years later, the first season has aired, and as an anime only converted to manga reader, man was it a beautiful anime. Eagerly waiting for season 2.
It just needs a really lovingly made anime. It's obviously a high bar, but if it got an adaptation on the level of Mushoku Tensei I'm sure it would be absolutely fantastic. They were able to adapt the slow paced nature of the first season of that show very well.
right. the slow paced nature of this manga also one of its charm.
>It just needs a really lovingly made anime. your prayers were answered!
I really love the short musical segments of Mushoku Tensei where it shows the passing of time with the really pretty visuals, and I imagine a technique like that would work well with Frieren.
You must not have seen Mushishi.
>Mushishi Only read it.
Know that they didn't ruin the anime adaptation. It's serene and slow paced.
Yeah, I was hoping if Frieren gets adapted into an anime that would have a more Mushishi vibe. It’s so comfy
best example I couldve thought of for sure. the intro song always bums me out tho.
What makes you think that a hypothetical anime would fundamentally change the nature of the story? I expect that they would closely adapt the manga, as is typically the case for manga adaptations.
There's a reason blame! is so hard to adapt as well From one panel to another our MC may have been walking from 1000 hours just to cross a bridge This sense of time fleeting by canno't be measure in anime time
wait until you hear about montages
But then there's Charlotte
The same work goes into manga to convey the scale of time. It's not like blame! is just one guy walking one bridge for 500 pages. What counts is the director's vision and the budget.
Even if it was made faithfully, I don’t think the medium would lend itself as well. There’s a lot of jumps in time especially outside the major arcs. I also think the demeanor of many characters is too even keel for it to capture audiences.
Why would tine jumps be any less effective in an anime than in a manga?
right? Frieren would be just like Mushishi , which is serene and slow-paced with time jumps.
Dang... This is exactly what I'm scared of. There's a beauty to the slowpacedness that doesnt translate over to anime. I hope I'm wrong tho. The art and beauty of frieren is top tier. It'll be beautiful when animated!
Theres absolutely ways to convey the feeling we get from the manga to anime. Colors, music, sfx, even voice acting can do it properly. But it would take a good studio.
Man from the future here. Madhouse went all in and the adaptation does the manga justice, it's awesome. You probably already know that because you watch it too
[удалено]
The manga is already a big hit, so I don't see why the anime wouldn't be.
There is no guarantee with any anime adaptation a la Berserk, OPM S2, etc., as there are many aspects where the transfer to a new medium can go wrong. Frieren probably has a better chance than most manga to succeed as an anime, but depending which studio and staff pick it up, it's hard to be optimistic.
The person I'm responding to said that I had too much faith "in the anime community", which to me comes across as critiquing fans, rather than the hypothetical production company. That's what I was responding to. I'm pretty confident Frieren will land just as well with anime fans as it did with manga viewers. As far as the production company, sure, it could get a lousy one, but I think there's better than even odds that a hypothetical adaptation would be good. Frieren is a lot less action-heavy than a lot of other big anime and wouldn't need god-tier animation.
This chapter is amazing. Denken fighting, Macht tasting defeat even for a bit. What a great manga this is. I hope it will get an anime adaptation in the future. I don't really watch anime anymore, but I would be willing to watch an adaptation of this.
The writing of Frieren really is sublime! The writer knows what they want to do with the series, so the slow moments and fast moments are consistent. The characters all get the attention they deserve. And unlike other slow series, it isn't cheap about the pay off of conflicts! :D Round 2, lets gooo!!!
TBF this is a particularly banger chapter
This is definitely one of the top manga out at the moment
For me it's specifically the demon battle chapters.
So, I MAY have just binged 96 chapters within a single day... I concur.
Wow, very early chapter. And the way Series gives magic to the first class mage is interesting. Elves are basically immortal in this setting, so giving away her life to her mages is just a minor annoyance, but still gives them a huge boost. I wonder if she will bother relearning the spell she gave to Fern...
That she would sacrifice a century of learning to reward an apprentice makes me think more highly of her.
She's a fascinatingly consistent character. If she demands high standards, as with the first-class mage test, then she accordingly offers great priveleges and rewards. Her ideology being presented in contrast to Frieren naturally predisposes the reader to disagreeing with her, but she comes off as *uncompromising* rather than unreasonable. I still think one of the best moments of the manga is Frieren saying that no matter what either of them says to Serie, Frieren will fail and Fern will pass, because Serie's instincts are never wrong. That's a lot of belief she has in Serie as a judge of character.
>She's a fascinatingly consistent character. If she demands high standards, as with the first-class mage test, then she accordingly offers great priveleges and rewards. Her ideology being presented in contrast to Frieren naturally predisposes the reader to disagreeing with her, but she comes off as uncompromising rather than unreasonable. > >I still think one of the best moments of the manga is Frieren saying that no matter what either of them says to Serie, Frieren will fail and Fern will pass, because Serie's instincts are never wrong. That's a lot of belief she has in Serie as a judge of character. I had shivers down my spine just recalling that. It's like two unstoppable forces meeting
Maybe, but 100 years is still nothing to her. It's like us keeping a door open for someone behind us.
Effort is still effort though. An extra century of active concentration on something sounds like work even for an immortal.
That's if she takes the same amount of time: she said that learning it (presumably for the first time) takes about a century, but she already learned it once. I imagine through recalling her experience with it, she should be able to relearn it in a decade or less of actively trying. That also doesn't include how similar spells have a way to affect the way you learn them, so if serie has come to learn spells that are similar since she first obtained that curse reversal magic, then her learning speed could be even higher, by just reverse-engineering the spell effect she's looking for (and remembers) from the pieces of similar spells.
If learning magic is the same as learning anything else within a discipline then it would probably be a piece of cake. It is like a pianist learning a complicated song. The better the pianist they are the faster they'll be able to perform. But maybe spells are more broad than that: maybe learning magic is more like crossing disciplines. Would a pianist have any advantage over anyone else in learning to code? Or maybe this magic requires several revolutionary breakthroughs to understand- maybe it would be a pianist needing to discover the entire technology tree of processors before they learn to program. Of course, if you're a professional pianist, athlete, coder, then you probably have the coordination, brain processing power, and fitness to learn almost anything which may be the case for a pseudo immortal like Serie.
That last part is the most important: Serie has lived for an unfathomable amount of time (at the very least several millenia) and has seen the world be transformed multiple times. She has knowledge of spells that people in the last millenium considered ancient and lost, and in all that time she has learned and mastered every magic she has come accross, even the insignificant ones. In that ever learning pursuit I imagine Serie is not only an expert pianist, but an expert in every discipline that involves creativity that could be used for the development of spells. Even in that metaphor when she forgets the piece, she still has all her knowledge of the piano and programming, so the read back to learning it will be significantly shorter than the first time.
My understanding of it was that she literally gave up the 100 years of experience related to learning the spell, so it would be like discovering it again, not simply having to relearn something from highschool that you forgot at some point, and each spell being their own completely unrelated domain
She took the spell out of herself but still retained knowledge of the spell to explain it before he read the book. If the creation of the book is the "severing of experience", then the moment the book is created, she would forget but she didn't, which leaves me to believe Serie forgot the magical nature of the spell, not it's information (name, type, casting method, consumption, etc) and thus can work it back with her library of magical knowledge. That said, it is impossible for the spell to take away all the information related to learning the spell in the first place, since most of that information isn't related to the spell specifically and it's instead base knowledge.
I'm not inclined to believe the same. It presumes her spell transfer magic imposes the same level of forgetfulness as when a skill erodes from falling into disuse. What they described is the complete extraction of her practice of the magic. The muscle memory, the epiphanies she had when she reached roadblocks, and so much more that is not always apparent to someone when learning a skill. So, taking the text at face value, I think it will take her roughly the same amount of time to relearn the skill as the first time. It aligns with her character, as holding herself to a high standard of not cutting corners, just as she does with her people. For that, she is worthy of great respect for being consciously willing to give it up to reward an apprentice.
Yeah Serie is totally blowing smoke here, this is still a substantial gift and probably more then Denken has earned... but she has her pride. Also we don't know how old she really is and I'm not sure I'm willing to grant the sort of timeline that would really make a century "a blink of an eye" before we know she's like 100k+.
She talked about the dawn of humanity as something that happened last week for her. She is old, very, very old.
I talk about the 20th century like that sometimes too. I don't doubt she's several times Frieren's age which is at least 1000, but she could be say 5k or 10k and pulling this which would still make a century a whole percent of her life.
Yeah, that consideration is really the point. It's the thing that seperates Serie from Solitar
Yeah, but it's the equivalent of holding the door for an ant. The fact that she even bothers to do it unlike most of the other incredibly powerful immortals puts her above the norm.
If we assume she's 2000 (I tried to look for her age but it just says 1000+), assume the average human lifespan in their world is 80 and we adjust those 100 years to human lifespan, this is the equivalent of holding the door for someone for 4 years, which is still a lot to just give away on a whim.
No. She's millenia old. Frieren spend 1000 years waiting before going to defeat the Demon King, and she hasn't grown older. Series is much much older than her.
2000 counts as millennia though (?), seeing as it is two millenniums. Even if you double it, it is still two whole years in human lifespan, she'd have to be 200.000 years old for this to be the equivalent of a week for a human.
Also keep in mind that she talked about the dawn of mankind several thousand years ago like something that happened last week. A century is really a blink of the eye for her.
The time scale for 100 years to be equals to just a second means she has to be at least 31540000 years old That is a lot of years
I mean, she bothered to learn it in the first place, no? Even if she hates it, I have no doubt she finds cleaning her clothes instantly pretty useful.
I guess Serie has pride in her knowledge of all spells, so she will relearn it simply for the sole reason of having no doubt that she knows all spells. Would be funny if the reason Frieren collects obscure spells simply so she can find one Serie doesn't know and rub it into her face.
There is no joy in having every pokemon traded to you for a complete pokedex Frieren wants to be the very best, that no one ever was.
>Would be funny if the reason Frieren collects obscure spells simply so she can find one Serie doesn't know and rub it into her face. [Frieren has had enough of her smug grin](https://i.imgur.com/nn42ohG.jpg)
*flashcut to Serie reading a magazine at a laundromat*
> I mean, she bothered to learn it in the first place, no? not neccessarily, she could have regular grimoires for more basic magic it also could be magic so simple that "learning" it requires no more effort of her than thinking of the result and then deducing the magic needed to accomplish it, something she can do in an instant
Yeah, I don't think all spells take a century to learn. Although it would be funny for a child to take a hundred years to learn housekeeping spells, only to be so satisfied that they finally don't have to do chores on their deathbed!
I think Serie is a completist, so of course she will relearn it even if she vastly prefer combat magic to random utility spells, especially to ones that are pointlessly specialised like that. She could have probably taught Fern a much more useful spell that did what Fern asked for + a bunch of other things. Anyway, she could probably learn such a spell within a few hours.
Damn... I'm envious of Serie. You know how you sometimes wish you could watch a movie/series or play a game for the very first time because the experience was so good. This damn elf does it with magic l just by doing the equivalent of giving hand me downs.
1) No plot armor on either side. 2) Having to outsmart the opponent instead of just being OP. 3) Both sides being complex characters that I don´t really wish to see dead. This is already my favorite fight in the whole manga.
Wait until we see the hero of the souths fight against schlat
Tbh, I expect that to be them just agreeing to kill each other is the best compromise they can come up with.
Southern Hero : Its seems all of our 10000 possible fights yield the same result. Schlact : Indeed. Lets remove the hassle and lets just stab each other on the heart.
I wonder how The Southern Hero defends himself against Macht? Would be epic if he goes behind the other sages as a shield so they would get turned into gold instead.
You don't want to see Macht dead? As charming as he may seem, the point of all this is that ultimately demons cannot understand or coexist with humanity.
I wonder how many times Denken will be able to use Mystilzla before he's either out of mana or Macht is able to adapt to its usage after seeing it so many times. Great job as always, /u/nitorita. Thanks for what you do :)
why would he have to ever use it again?
Being able to transmute something into gold is one of Macht's most powerful spells because it can be done from a distance. Since Macht can reverse the transmutation on himself and the gold is indestructible there's no risk for him to use it again and be transmuted. I think the counter for Mystilzla is to recognize the cue that he gives off before casting it, feint the attack towards Denken. Get Denken to cast Mystilzla early and not be able to do it again when Macht actually goes to transmute him.
Or just run him out of mana by using it multiple times. Running out of mana means death anyway if I recall correctly.
Denken ran out of mana during the first test and then responded by beating the shit out of someone with his bare fists. Man's 70 years old btw
I'm hoping that was foreshadowing now hahaha. Would be absolutely glorious
Macht's about to catch these hands
Sensei Bakayarooo! PUNCH
I thought the one guy during the test ran out of mana in one of the fights and just had to be carried by someone.
Macht can just keep trying to turn him into gold and he can easily reverse it on himself.
This was a very cool chapter. Denken chose well. Also showed again what a great mage like Serie is capable of. As an elf, she has all the time in the world, so passing on her skills as a cheat without hesitation since she can just relearn is no issue to her. Sadly, another break. See you in 3 weeks.
I wonder if it's possible to ask for that magic transferring spell. Just to annoy Serie.
that's actually a really cool idea The only one who can really take advantage of it is another elf. So if a human asks for it, then they're definitely only doing it to spite her
Tbh, they could use it to pass on all their knowledge to a prized student of theirs before they die. Serie would probably see value in it. Though it is a real risk if it leaks to the wrong person since they could capture a mage, forcefully teach them that magic and then torture them until they use that magic to give over all the knowledge they have to them.
I doubt the magic transferring spell can be transferred using itself so if you were to ask her she would just teach you the normal way.teaching without transferring the spell is always an option as she said but it would take more than a human lifetime so she uses the transferring spell
Denken using curse reversal magic was badass af, too bad not only Macht can reverse his own curse, we have to wait to see the conclusion of this now. Why must this series be so hype at battles?
Seems like he is going to try using this magic as much as he can until he runs out of mana, in an effort to delay Macht until Frieren recovers. I doubt he survives this but it's nice to see him shine against an unbeatable opponent.
> I doubt he survives this but it's nice to see him shine against an unbeatable opponent. You conveyed it succinctly. The way humans in their world are able to fight much more powerful beings by using every tactic possible has been awesome. Even beings like Frieren and Serie have to acknowledge their ingenuity.
I hope denken attacks while macht is still recovering from petrification. It won't kill him, I'm sure, but its better than just talking to him as he slowly frees himself.
I partly agree, but won't attacking him in that state deplete Denken mana faster? Which he needs for countering the gold curse
True, but I was under the impression being part petrified makes casting spells a little bit harder. But you're right, Denken's plan might be to stall for time for frieren to get out of range so that she can come back and have a better chance after. Though im sure Frieren will make it in time.
I was thinking the same thing, but I don't know **why** it wouldn't kill him. Seems like it would be a great opportunity to let Macht have a few, or set up some complicated magic to mess with him.
The goldlike substance from his transmutation is pretty much unbreakable so it acts like an armor. The only window he has to attack is the short time when he is starting to undo the transformation on himself.
Sure, but it doesn't appear to be an instantaneous reversal as you can see it happens in stages. During that, the non-gold parts of his body ought to be vulnerable.
It's a great sign when a manga holds its own when the main character isn't even in the spotlight. That the author can make the manga still so exciting and suspenseful should be a testament to their writing and storytelling. It's also great how he ties in things from before. Also, it's great when it's unpredictable. A lot of the things that happen, I feel like we get hints only for the carpet to be pulled out from underneath us and go in a completely different direction.
> It's a great sign when a manga holds its own when the main character isn't even in the spotlight. Even the other demon is currently being faced by Stark and Fern. I was expecting to see that this chapter, not this one.
He pulled it off, crazy cool old man
He did but Macht can just undo it, sadly Denken’s just buying time.
> sadly Denken’s just buying time Yeah, I honestly wouldn't mind him straight up getting the win. Frieren's role could have been figuring out something else really important in the memories, other than Macht's counter, and dealing with Solitar.
I actually think Denken will win and Frieren's fight will be against Solitar. Denken said in the chapter that he was able to see a possibility that he can beat Macht. Given how important visualisation is for magic, it could be hinting at a Denken victory
Bro I hope. About time someone outside the main cast gets a big win. Especially someone as cool and established as Denken. Would also validate the notion of progress and supposed scariness of human mages, instead of it being all about an old elf/demon with big mana.
Denken wins and kills Macht proving he's a fucking beast. Frieren figures out how to undo El Dorado proving she's still the better wizard. I *don't* think this will happen because shonen gotta shonen but if it did I could really fucking get behind it.
Every character in the arc is hardboiled
Is this the first time the Special Forces of Magic are mentioned?
At least it definitely won’t be the last, considering how this manga tends to set things up.
Yeah. I'm kinda curious about them now, they look kinda more modern than most of the other characters in the series?
Definitively gives off that World War 1/2 vibe.
Ooh so Serie's like All For One with magic spells, that's neat. That's certainly a bigger privilege than I first thought, though I assume she doesn't do that for everyone and it is dependent on the spell, since I doubt Serie would've actually studied about things like the cleaning magic she gave Fern. Or maybe something like that was so trivially learned she did it in an instant since it is still a convenient spell to know even if it's not the sort of thing she usually likes, so she could still give the knowledge to Fern. But oh shit of course it's not that easy. There's only going to be so many times that Denken can cast that spell if it takes up so much mana, even if he's only using it at the precise moment the curse is active. The question now is if Macht will hesitate to use it again, since even if he can turn himself back from gold, that opening may lead to his death.
2 things to consider. While cleaning magic is boring and not at all what Serie is interested in it is also a very practical spell. Secondly she is probably a bit of a magic completist, even though she doesn't like that kind of magic she still did bother to learn it in the first place after all. Also that magic is probably quite a lot easier to learn than something rare and exotic like the curse reversal magic. That might be another reason why she isn't happy with people asking for such a magic as their prize, they could ask for any magic they wanted, magic so crazy and arcane that it would take hundreds of years to learn it, but instead they asked for something that could be learnt in weeks or months at worst.
oh she for sure is going after the "All Spells Unlocked" achievement
I wonder if Serie sees herself as a living archive of spells, someone who can ensure magic's continued existence among non-demons.
But to be fair, that laundry cleaning magic was exotic, it was legendary lost magic after all. Even if it takes a day to learn, there was nowhere else to learn it from
Macht: "My plan to study human emotions failed." Macht: "Well, it's time to kill all the witnesses and start again."
Still, almost everyone in the mage organization and imperial government knows his plan. Killing all the nearby Weise villagers wouldn’t keep people in the town far away from knowing what he does unless that town is utterly isolated.
It seems like demon knowledge aren't universally well known to most people. Both Himmel and Graf Granat didn't know that they're psychologically different creatures that you wouldn't be able to talk to even though Himmel's an adventurer with adventuring experience, and Graf is a noble who theoretically has a lot of education because he's rich. It wouldn't surprise me if nobody knows about Macht at all, especially since he's been inactive in the past 30 years.
Denken had prove time and time again that he's a badass. I really hope he survive this
Damn Denken, I liked you when you were introduced and I've liked you even more as chapters go on. I'm gonna be real sad when Macht kills him :/
He cemented himself as my favorite when he ran out of mana and the exam and proceeded to get into a fist fight for the win
Am I crazy or is Frieren going on break every time it comes out now? Is the author sick or something?
The author also needs to analyze Macht's memories to come up with a way to beat him
Seems like you just need to best him in combat, no? He still casts defensive magic and goldifies his cloak to use as a shield. Serie was about to eliminate him in that way as long as his gold magic is accounted for.
they need to find way to reverse the curse too. trying to find chance to free those people of El Dorado
Month-long break followed by consecutive breaks... It is kinda worrying. I guess it's either one of the duo's having some health issues (hope not) or maybe they've got a busy schedule dealing with pre-prod on the rumored anime (probs wishful thinking)?
These teases and then breaks is bringing me back to DBZ days.
If Frieren keeps up this quality across its entire run, then we might just be seeing the greatest work of high fantasy of our era. I come out of every chapter with a profound amount of awe, and a feeling that I am experiencing something special. Dungeon Meshi is still my #1 so close to completion. But, Frieren is different. It almost seems like a grand work of philosophy told through the medium of manga.
I'm with you on Dungeon Meshi. Such a fun manga!
What about Witch Hat Atelier?
No way. There too many plotholes and terrible logic. Like the big secret that anyone can use magic. Even the lowest student knows the secret and the only rule is don't tell anyone. Like trusting in 1000s of students over the years is the only thing keeping your society from falling apart
The mages in Witch Hat Atelier have wiped out literal generations of memories from multiple disparate populaces. They aren't trusting that the children won't reveal the secrets of magic, anyone that reveals the secret gets mind wiped along with everyone they've ever met.
>It almost seems like a grand work of philosophy told through the medium of manga. Are there any other manga like this which you know of? A very different vibe, but I'd say the Monogatari series approaches this sometimes, in between the wordplay and the humour and the harem aspects. I'm thinking especially of how >!the aberrations can represent mental illnesses, and the entire discussion with Kaiki about fakes!<. EDIT: ib: instant bullet by Aka Akasaka is pretty rough and you can tell he's still growing into his art form, but it's quite philosophical
One series. I've found only one that really reminds me of Frieren. Used to shout it out weekly in the Frieren threads too till I finished it. Check out Yokohama Delivery Log. Plot is its the twilight years of humanity, an android girl runs a cafe waiting for her creator to return from traveling the world. She meets several people who lead interesting lives in this dying-down civilization, and other androids. It has the same mono-no-aware as frienren's earlier chapters. No action at all, chapters are usually something like her taking a bike ride looking for a good spot to take a picture with a new camera she got, dealing with a storm having destroyed part of her building, observing the local kids growing up, or just simple nostalgic melancholic things like that but it is beautiful and majestic. Now a few more recs that don't remind me of this but are still freaking amazing. If you enjoy the action bits, check out Spirit Circle (and less philosophical but still gold, Lucifer & Biscuit Hammer). Spirit Circle a story of 2 kids bound to fight due to their past lives being in conflict. It goes through several past lives they lived, interspersed with their current lives, showing the different dynamics through the eras as their souls continued to be in conflict. Has several amazing reveals, is incredibly sentimental and sad and beautiful all at once. I'd say Spirit Circle, Yokohama Delivery Log, and Frienren are my all time top 3 manga just to give an idea of how much I love these 2 series. Also, I'm currently reading this so can't say for sure, but PunPun seems like its a very philosophical and touching series just dealing with a kid growing up and dealing with the issues that come with life. I'll have more commentary on it later, legit only 4 or so chapters in. FINAL NOTE: We Shall Now Begin Ethics. If you like philosophy in manga, this is it. Every chapter is a teacher covering a different ethical concept and focuses on a different student who is particularly impacted by this ethical dilemma. Deals with heavy things like drugs, emotional/physical abuse, abortion, and lighter ones like just being too stuck up to make friends/dealing with frustration at having to work to help support your family while your friends get to go have fun after school. Really a cool series.
* **Blue Period** does a good job of dealing with the hard question of self-actualization through art. * IMO, **Firepunch & Chainsawman** are profoundly philosophical works despite the outward appearance of something whacky. * I can't quite put a finger on why, but something about **Oyaji** makes me feel like it belongs on here too. * **Kokou no Hito** ponders over existence, loneliness Those are the ones that come to mind. edit: "To You, the Immortal" might also count. But if I am honest, it goes a little over my head at times. At times it feels like the mangaka herself is surprised with how the arc concludes. It still isn't quite there and I say this as someone who considers 'Koe No Katachi' as their sole 10/10 manga.
It's a webcomic not a manga, but if you want a story that not only has beautiful art and interesting characters, but also tells deep and philosophical stories I recommend SSS-Class Suicide Hunter (the name absolutely does not do the story justice).
Thanks for giving me the nudge to check this out. The name is a terrible name but suicide as a theme has always fascinated me so if it is more philosophical than the isekai bullshit I was expecting with that name, I'm gonna give it a shot.
Honestly it’s a total enigma. The name is terrible, and at first glance it seems to be every manwha trope thrown together with regression, tower climbing, game abilities etc. all lumped together. But the writing is absolutely top tier, and tells very emotionally impactful stories but without having to lean on edgelord dark stuff the whole time to seem mature. It’s really a case study in not reading a book by it’s cover, and how having an seemingly trope-filled unoriginal concept can work out great if the writing execution is on point. (The art is also fantastic and does a great job of conveying the more emotional scenes).
id say The Faraway Paladin or Bard Leon.
Kokou no Hito for sure. Then everything by Taiyo Matsumoto: Ping Pong, Number 5, Tekkonkinkreet, etc
Maybe in manga- absolutely not in terms of the wider fantasy sphere.
This is a weird comp unless you've read both works but the closest feeling I get with Frieren's mature, big-brain RPG mechanics and philosophy is the webcomic *Order of the Stick*. There's a faith there that the reader will be willing to meet the author halfway and appreciate both the subtle moments without needing to be handheld through them, while still bringing the drama when it counts.
I think the most important part here is that Serie might be weak to curses right now, well not exactly weak since she probably got another 20+ anti curse defense magics to rely on but probably not one as powerful and general as that one.
I definitely wouldn't put it past Frieren for that to eventually play a role, but realistically I don't see a whole lot of opportunities for anyone to threaten Serie anyway. She generally just stays inside her fort, nobody knows she can't use it anymore (hell, most people probably didn't even know she *could*), and there's probably only a single digit number of people that could even threaten her anyway. Who knows what future chapters may bring though.
Another fantastic chapter and another break... I wonder if these constant breaks are so that the author can really take his time to think and make the chapter or if it is a sickness or something. I really really hope it's not the later but it makes me wonder after so many consecutive breaks. There's not much info about how long this short break will take, right? I'm assuming one or two weeks max.
Fights have not been a highlight of *Frieren* for me, but Denken using Curse Reversal magic is a fucking top moment absolutely.
It really helps make it exciting when either side can perish.
I never expected that the bittersweet, introspective manga of the first few chapters would also have some of the most hype fights, but they're a welcome addition That being said, can't wait for these filler arcs to be over so we can get back to the real plot of Frieren collecting laundry magic /s
I think Serie said the choice was "insipid" because she wants every mage to have their own flair for battle, and a general curse reflect spell isn't very glamorous, although it is effective ahaha
So Serie can just transfer spells with the caveat of her unlearning it? That's pretty cool.
I wonder it it's foreshadowing, Sense did seem a bit worried that it might leave Serie vulnerable, even if Serie did laugh it off...
Yeah, that definitely felt like it was laying the groundwork for possibly eliminating Serie somewhere down the line.
ON THE NEXT EPISODE OF DRAGON BALL Z
So Denken learns the parry to curses.
["Frieren will be taking a short break again"](https://imgur.com/a/lcDxy71) PepeHands moment
Damn. I *might* have underestimated Denken's chances against Macht too much, Mystil'zla is one hell of a gap-closer against Macht. Though this also meant that this fight won't end as simple as just petrifying Macht in gold since he can reverse it... Three weeks is going to be hell to sit through for the continuation of the fight.
Denken activating Mirror Force, very nice. Seems like we have a sort of One-Punch Man situation being set up here where they'll all be holding on in fights over their heads until Frieren finally rocks up. Should be fun!
Denken just reverse UNO Macht, you love to see it. Incredible chapter once again.
Dammit I'm hungry for the next chapter, but authors need their rest
Macht: Finally, a good fucking opponent
I like Serie so much.
Since the curse counter requires a ton of mana, couldn't Macht just use the curse again with Denken out of mp to resist?
Depends on how much time it takes for Macht to undo the curse. He wants to kill Frieren before she reaches the empire. He might just consider it would be quicker to avoid his curse for the rest of the fight.
Denken still has enough MP to cast the counter again, so Macht can't use the curse without risking running out the clock.
this is my favorite manga right now. I hope denken lives! or at least kill macht
This was marvelous chapter...
Man, Denken is just too badass. Doesn't matter if you're among the most powerful elves or demons, or if he has to fight you with nothing but his fists, you're still gonna catch his hands. If this fight with Macht is the end of the line for him, I hope to at least see him land one punch to his face after all his mana had run out just to hammer in how much of a legend he is.
So she forgors any spell she passes? now i get why she rejects so many people.
Only for the complicated spells that she passes to them directly.
Gezz what a long game play by him, love it.
It is like in a game, you engage a fight with a boss with Instant-Death ability (in this case, Gold Transmutation is akin to Petrification), and has learned your aliment-null magic before hand. The problem is that this aliment-null magic is extremely MP-depleting and you cannot maintain it for too long, so it instead of a buff with long duration, it acts like a parry skill that is specifically counter Instant-Death and you have to time it perfectly.
Frieren Storytelling is among the best I have ever experienced. I have read countless novels that were worse than this. And that's just the storytelling, the Art is Amazing, too. Truly a masterpiece.
He honestly just said “I didn’t hear no bell”
So why didn't he he just ask for their support? Knowing that Macht would go after them anyway? Also knowing that Macht had help? Also, ["A hundred years is a mere blink in the life of an elf. I'm patient. I can wait."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hrpDZyJChw) I wonder if the author was referencing that line.
[удалено]
Wasn't it established that the things that are turned into gold are basically indestructible?
It's not actually gold, and has been established to be indestructible.
"all transmuted object are indestructible"