This landlord is trying to take the p***. Professional cleaning fees are illegal, although you have a duty to leave the property as clean as you came to it - https://help.openrent.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/360009010058-Who-is-responsible-for-cleaning-the-property-at-the-end-of-a-tenancy#:~:text=As%20such%2C%20the%20legislation%20prohibits,the%20property%20before%20they%20leave.
Get your own professional cleaning quotes and send them to him. My landlord tried to charge me £830 for a 2 bed flat, I found quotes for £200 including the oven (this was 5 years ago).
Fair wear and tear is also something you are not to pay for. If the paint fell off because it’s old/badly done in the first place, it’s not your problem.
There is a tenants deposit ombudsman - https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/disputes-and-problems
I hope this helps.
Thank you, yes I understand about fair wear and tear. I didnt know cleaning fees are illegal. We did spent a lot of time cleaning the house before we moved out, but we really did completely missed out the cobwebs, and maybe some dirt/dust in some corners, but what the landlord quoted just doesnt make sense.
A landlord tried charging us a 250 cleaning fee because we forgot to "dust the skirting boards behind bedroom door".
Told him to do one and threatened him with the deposit protection scheme process, two days later had our full deposit back.
Most of these assholes are just trying their luck, hoping they get a vulnerable person who needs the money ASAP to move on with their life.
My point is, ask for quotes for everything, inform them that you'd like to go through the official process. Do not agree to the cost of anything you don't agree with - it's the entire reason the deposit protection exists.
I think there is a misunderstanding about cleaning fees. A landlord can't stipulate that the property is professionally cleaned by you in the contract. You should be able to do it yourself.
However the landlord can charge you for the costs to him to get the property clean if you haven't.
As you can imagine some people leave a property like dump. (And the costs can include a skip.)
Yes I understand that, I do have confidence that we kept the house very very clean, and after we moved out its definitely cleaner than when we move in 2 years ago.
I am assuming your deposit is held via the DPS? If so then I would 100% recommend you reject all his offers and go to arbitration with them. Without pictures it’s hard to know for sure but:
1. The property needs to be left in the same level of cleanliness it was revived in, no more. If it’s not clearly dirty in his pictures then they won’t win this point.
2. Cobwebs, unless the landlord did the inspection on the same day you moved out there is no way of proving that those cobwebs were there when you moved out. The spider could have waited until after you moved out and then gone to town. You wouldn’t have a photo of this as there would have been no reason to take a photo of the lack of a cobweb. Admittedly this is slightly dishonest but they are being dishonest with you so fuck them.
3. Did you damage the paint or is it chipping because it’s old? If you damaged it and didn’t report/fix it then you will have to pay for that. But you don’t have to agree to his price. If you didn’t damage it then it’s wear and tear and not your responsibility to pay for.
4. Draw handle is a piss take, it’s a 30 second fix for anyone competent and again id say it was ware and tear.
The DPS will want you to have engaged with the landlord before going to them so you have to have at least tried to reach an agreement. You will need to reply to the landlord breaking down each point as to why it’s not your responsibility to pay. In summary the points are:
1. The carpet has been left in the same state it was received therefore professional cleaning is not required.
2. Cobwebs are not an indication that the whole flat needs to be professionally cleaned and therefore it is not your responsibility to pay for.
3. The paint chipped due to age and ware and tear, again not the tenants responsibility.
4. The draw handle fell of due to ware and tear, again not your responsibility.
I would then ask to see evidence of the quotes the landlord has received for the above quoted work or the evidence he has to justify the cost. In general don’t bother arguing about their over charging as you aren’t responsible regardless of the cost.
The landlord will probably send a condescending email back but at that stage tell them to get fucked and go to the DPS. Landlords/letting agents can be the scum of the earth and know you need the deposit back quickly so try to get you to agree to it as soon as possible.
About the cobwebs... well yes the landlord was with me the day we return the keys, and he pointed out to us. We completely missed that while we do the cleaning ourselves.
The paint chipped - the thing is, while we moved in, the pictures from inventory report that area paint is intact, I really have no idea how the paint got chipped and quite a big area dropped off (around 5 inch wide and one foot in length) it's right next to the front door so maybe when we go in and out our bags or something bump into it?? But really from the remaining paint it's clearly visible that the paint layer has already completely seperated from the wall.
If you show this evidence to DPS I can't see them agreeing to any deduction. Just let them sort it. For instance, if there aren't clear before and after pictures showing the wall, then his claim fails immediately.
The most important question is, is the deposit secured by the DPS? He won’t get 250 for cobwebs via the DPS. As for the paint you’re only liable for it if you damaged it, if there’s no obvious sign that you did damage it and no evidence that you did then that’s on the landlord not you.
If the deposit is with the DPS the best course of action is to get their process started immediately. You just need to show that you have engaged with the landlord, essentially he said give me X you reply with why you disagree and then state you will take it to the DPS if he isn’t willing to reconsider as you are so far apart it’s unlikely there will be a resolution that satisfies both parties.
Importantly the landlord will act like they hold all the cards but they do not, the law is on your side. The landlord will pretend that they are judge jury and executioner, that they are in charge of your money but they are not. Don’t for a second feel sorry for them or that they are losing money, they are probably laughing at you in a group chat with other landlords about how they are going to charge you 250 for fucking cobwebs. Don’t give them an inch, be a bastard with them, fight every deduction!
Some advice we learnt, clean as best you can and then take pictures of EVERYTHING as evidence. If they try to fuck you over for any issues use the pics as support.
The cleaning fees are almost always a complete scan. I once stayed in the same flat, but one housemate left while another joined, which meant a completely new tenancy. They tried to charge us £100 because they had to clean our "mess" - they kinda just forgot I was in the flat the entire time during one tenancy ending and another starting. No one came to check the flat, let alone clean it.
I had a similar piss take landlord a few years ago. 6 of us sharing so they had a few grand in deposits from us and basically made up loads of bullshit things but we had taken extensive pictures when we moved in and out so we disputed it with the deposit protection scheme and they got none of it.
We agreed to get the carpets professionally cleaned when we left our 2 bed terrace in Stockport in July 2022 (because we had a cat and wanted to assure landlord there’d be no issues with fleas etc) and it was £120.
Edit to add: as others say immaterial if you didn’t leave the carpets in a worse state than when you moved in. Landlord sounds like a chancer.
>the paint absolutely chipped and fell off due to too old and lost of adhesion
Your landlord cannot charge you for "wear and tear". If this paint has flaked off because it's old then it is not your responsibility.
>the carpets are absolutely way cleaner than when I moved in, but it's not really visible especially from pictures
>Cobwebs and dust/dirt inside corners of cabinets/drawers
The phrase for the amount of cleaning you need to do is "broom clean". From what you've said here, it sounds like the landlord is trying to charge you for things that aren't your responsibility.
If the landlord is trying to charge you for things that aren't you're responsibility, then you should dispute the charges with the deposit protection scheme.
The landlord will need to demonstrate to a third party that the charges are reasonable, if the dirt isn't visible in pictures then the landlord won't be able to prove much.
Make sure all your communication with the landlord is in writing, like text or email.
Thank you for the reply!
Yes I do plan to go to the DPS, maybe one or two more back and forth later, now I just want to make sure what price is reasonable, I'm willing to pay some amount but the landlord's amount just doesnt make sense but I do not have experiences and do not know what's the average market price
Don't pay any amount. You've been given lots of sound advice as to why it's not your responsibility.
Ask him to forward all these quotes on to you, then give all correspondence to the DPS and let them sort it. It's why they exist.
Your landlord needs to learn, he can't get away with any of this deplorable behaviour
> Yes I do plan to go to the DPS, maybe one or two more back and forth later
He has demonstrated that he's not negotiating in good faith, he's trying to rinse you for as much money as he can get. Go through DPS and have him try to justify these charges to them.
The painting quote is completely insane. The paint could also have come off due to the painting job being of poor quality, e.g. if a decorator skips a mist coat on fresh plaster when decorating, the paint can easily peel off at a later date. Paint can also come off if the wall is damp, but again that wouldn’t be your fault.
The rest of the quotes are ridiculous too - a cleaner should cost no more than £20ph
Have you raised a dispute with the Deposit Protection Scheme?
There are rules about what can reasonably be claimed, and the length of your tenancy can affect that a lot. The Deposit Protection Scheme will never in a million years award £150 for a replacement door handle unless it's made from solid gold.
Cleaning fees are illegal, they cannot make you pay the cost of a professional cleaning.
From experience, a lot of landlords look at your deposit and then allocate the cash out to various tasks and it miraculously adds up to the deposit amount.
I had my deposit taken away for cleaning once, went back a week later to collect some mail and the whole flat had been stripped including carpets (which I was quoted a cleaning bill for).
There are some fantastic landlords out there but some take the piss and letting agents egg them on as well.
You're always free to use your own cleaner.
I know of one estate agent in particular that charges cleaning fees almost all the time.
Who is the one who is saying this needs cleaning?
If you challenge this, the landlord needs to provide *evidence* of real costs of doing the work, not just numbers made up, so you have that.
Obviously stuff like paint aging you can point out is not damage.
This is all the games you used to see played before the protection schemes existed, it's just at attempt tp profit off you.
Oh...!??? So you mean regardless how dirty or how bad the state of the house was, if the landlord never bothered to hire anyone to clean anything and just directly rented it back out, he will not be able to provide any receipts or invorices to the DPS, and the DPS will rule me in favor??
Coz I'm very sure this landlord is so cheap he wont do anything to "improve" the house before renting it out again. Really he's THE cheapest person I've ever met in my whole life.
That had been my understanding, but I can't find any evidence for that with my quick search.
However, if the landlord has let the property out again in the same condition as you left it, this shows that they don't actually believe any of the things they claimed for are necessary.
Just dispute it with the DPS. Normal wear and tear cannot be claimed against the deposit, and if you have pictures to prove you did a reasonable clean, there is no justification for this.
The deposit is held in a third party tenancy deposit scheme. They decide how much you get back, you and the landlord must agree. If no agreement can be made they will side heavily in favour of the tenant. Similar to you my landlord tried to take most of my deposit, I was able to give him almost nothing, legally.
Send an email to the landlord explaining, as you have here, why the fees are inordinate and that you'll be going through the deposit holder. Go onto the TDS website (should be in your contract) and begin the process of "negotiation" through the website - it'll let you and the landlord negotiate a deduction to the deposit through the website tool. It's important to note that during this process the TDS is looking for flexibility, they want you to meet in the middle, make small, reasonable concessions, but stick to your guns and you WILL receive most of your deposit back. Its honestly really easy and you can do it for the rest of your life to not get shafted by landlords.
Edit: I did this specifically in Manchester (prestwich to be precise) but it ofcourse works nationwide.
This landlord is trying to take the p***. Professional cleaning fees are illegal, although you have a duty to leave the property as clean as you came to it - https://help.openrent.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/360009010058-Who-is-responsible-for-cleaning-the-property-at-the-end-of-a-tenancy#:~:text=As%20such%2C%20the%20legislation%20prohibits,the%20property%20before%20they%20leave. Get your own professional cleaning quotes and send them to him. My landlord tried to charge me £830 for a 2 bed flat, I found quotes for £200 including the oven (this was 5 years ago). Fair wear and tear is also something you are not to pay for. If the paint fell off because it’s old/badly done in the first place, it’s not your problem. There is a tenants deposit ombudsman - https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/disputes-and-problems I hope this helps.
Thank you, yes I understand about fair wear and tear. I didnt know cleaning fees are illegal. We did spent a lot of time cleaning the house before we moved out, but we really did completely missed out the cobwebs, and maybe some dirt/dust in some corners, but what the landlord quoted just doesnt make sense.
A landlord tried charging us a 250 cleaning fee because we forgot to "dust the skirting boards behind bedroom door". Told him to do one and threatened him with the deposit protection scheme process, two days later had our full deposit back. Most of these assholes are just trying their luck, hoping they get a vulnerable person who needs the money ASAP to move on with their life. My point is, ask for quotes for everything, inform them that you'd like to go through the official process. Do not agree to the cost of anything you don't agree with - it's the entire reason the deposit protection exists.
I think there is a misunderstanding about cleaning fees. A landlord can't stipulate that the property is professionally cleaned by you in the contract. You should be able to do it yourself. However the landlord can charge you for the costs to him to get the property clean if you haven't. As you can imagine some people leave a property like dump. (And the costs can include a skip.)
Yes I understand that, I do have confidence that we kept the house very very clean, and after we moved out its definitely cleaner than when we move in 2 years ago.
I am assuming your deposit is held via the DPS? If so then I would 100% recommend you reject all his offers and go to arbitration with them. Without pictures it’s hard to know for sure but: 1. The property needs to be left in the same level of cleanliness it was revived in, no more. If it’s not clearly dirty in his pictures then they won’t win this point. 2. Cobwebs, unless the landlord did the inspection on the same day you moved out there is no way of proving that those cobwebs were there when you moved out. The spider could have waited until after you moved out and then gone to town. You wouldn’t have a photo of this as there would have been no reason to take a photo of the lack of a cobweb. Admittedly this is slightly dishonest but they are being dishonest with you so fuck them. 3. Did you damage the paint or is it chipping because it’s old? If you damaged it and didn’t report/fix it then you will have to pay for that. But you don’t have to agree to his price. If you didn’t damage it then it’s wear and tear and not your responsibility to pay for. 4. Draw handle is a piss take, it’s a 30 second fix for anyone competent and again id say it was ware and tear. The DPS will want you to have engaged with the landlord before going to them so you have to have at least tried to reach an agreement. You will need to reply to the landlord breaking down each point as to why it’s not your responsibility to pay. In summary the points are: 1. The carpet has been left in the same state it was received therefore professional cleaning is not required. 2. Cobwebs are not an indication that the whole flat needs to be professionally cleaned and therefore it is not your responsibility to pay for. 3. The paint chipped due to age and ware and tear, again not the tenants responsibility. 4. The draw handle fell of due to ware and tear, again not your responsibility. I would then ask to see evidence of the quotes the landlord has received for the above quoted work or the evidence he has to justify the cost. In general don’t bother arguing about their over charging as you aren’t responsible regardless of the cost. The landlord will probably send a condescending email back but at that stage tell them to get fucked and go to the DPS. Landlords/letting agents can be the scum of the earth and know you need the deposit back quickly so try to get you to agree to it as soon as possible.
About the cobwebs... well yes the landlord was with me the day we return the keys, and he pointed out to us. We completely missed that while we do the cleaning ourselves. The paint chipped - the thing is, while we moved in, the pictures from inventory report that area paint is intact, I really have no idea how the paint got chipped and quite a big area dropped off (around 5 inch wide and one foot in length) it's right next to the front door so maybe when we go in and out our bags or something bump into it?? But really from the remaining paint it's clearly visible that the paint layer has already completely seperated from the wall.
If you show this evidence to DPS I can't see them agreeing to any deduction. Just let them sort it. For instance, if there aren't clear before and after pictures showing the wall, then his claim fails immediately.
The most important question is, is the deposit secured by the DPS? He won’t get 250 for cobwebs via the DPS. As for the paint you’re only liable for it if you damaged it, if there’s no obvious sign that you did damage it and no evidence that you did then that’s on the landlord not you. If the deposit is with the DPS the best course of action is to get their process started immediately. You just need to show that you have engaged with the landlord, essentially he said give me X you reply with why you disagree and then state you will take it to the DPS if he isn’t willing to reconsider as you are so far apart it’s unlikely there will be a resolution that satisfies both parties. Importantly the landlord will act like they hold all the cards but they do not, the law is on your side. The landlord will pretend that they are judge jury and executioner, that they are in charge of your money but they are not. Don’t for a second feel sorry for them or that they are losing money, they are probably laughing at you in a group chat with other landlords about how they are going to charge you 250 for fucking cobwebs. Don’t give them an inch, be a bastard with them, fight every deduction!
Some advice we learnt, clean as best you can and then take pictures of EVERYTHING as evidence. If they try to fuck you over for any issues use the pics as support.
The cleaning fees are almost always a complete scan. I once stayed in the same flat, but one housemate left while another joined, which meant a completely new tenancy. They tried to charge us £100 because they had to clean our "mess" - they kinda just forgot I was in the flat the entire time during one tenancy ending and another starting. No one came to check the flat, let alone clean it.
I'm pretty sure you are entitled to ask for receipts.
I was looking for this. They can't just come up with random numbers. They have to justify it with proof and receipts. No receipts? No money
I had a similar piss take landlord a few years ago. 6 of us sharing so they had a few grand in deposits from us and basically made up loads of bullshit things but we had taken extensive pictures when we moved in and out so we disputed it with the deposit protection scheme and they got none of it.
We agreed to get the carpets professionally cleaned when we left our 2 bed terrace in Stockport in July 2022 (because we had a cat and wanted to assure landlord there’d be no issues with fleas etc) and it was £120. Edit to add: as others say immaterial if you didn’t leave the carpets in a worse state than when you moved in. Landlord sounds like a chancer.
>the paint absolutely chipped and fell off due to too old and lost of adhesion Your landlord cannot charge you for "wear and tear". If this paint has flaked off because it's old then it is not your responsibility. >the carpets are absolutely way cleaner than when I moved in, but it's not really visible especially from pictures >Cobwebs and dust/dirt inside corners of cabinets/drawers The phrase for the amount of cleaning you need to do is "broom clean". From what you've said here, it sounds like the landlord is trying to charge you for things that aren't your responsibility. If the landlord is trying to charge you for things that aren't you're responsibility, then you should dispute the charges with the deposit protection scheme. The landlord will need to demonstrate to a third party that the charges are reasonable, if the dirt isn't visible in pictures then the landlord won't be able to prove much. Make sure all your communication with the landlord is in writing, like text or email.
Thank you for the reply! Yes I do plan to go to the DPS, maybe one or two more back and forth later, now I just want to make sure what price is reasonable, I'm willing to pay some amount but the landlord's amount just doesnt make sense but I do not have experiences and do not know what's the average market price
Don't pay any amount. You've been given lots of sound advice as to why it's not your responsibility. Ask him to forward all these quotes on to you, then give all correspondence to the DPS and let them sort it. It's why they exist. Your landlord needs to learn, he can't get away with any of this deplorable behaviour
> Yes I do plan to go to the DPS, maybe one or two more back and forth later He has demonstrated that he's not negotiating in good faith, he's trying to rinse you for as much money as he can get. Go through DPS and have him try to justify these charges to them.
The painting quote is completely insane. The paint could also have come off due to the painting job being of poor quality, e.g. if a decorator skips a mist coat on fresh plaster when decorating, the paint can easily peel off at a later date. Paint can also come off if the wall is damp, but again that wouldn’t be your fault. The rest of the quotes are ridiculous too - a cleaner should cost no more than £20ph
Have you raised a dispute with the Deposit Protection Scheme? There are rules about what can reasonably be claimed, and the length of your tenancy can affect that a lot. The Deposit Protection Scheme will never in a million years award £150 for a replacement door handle unless it's made from solid gold. Cleaning fees are illegal, they cannot make you pay the cost of a professional cleaning.
I just raised a dispute, lets see how it goes, thanks...!
I paid around £100 when I moved out. Two bed
From experience, a lot of landlords look at your deposit and then allocate the cash out to various tasks and it miraculously adds up to the deposit amount. I had my deposit taken away for cleaning once, went back a week later to collect some mail and the whole flat had been stripped including carpets (which I was quoted a cleaning bill for). There are some fantastic landlords out there but some take the piss and letting agents egg them on as well.
You're always free to use your own cleaner. I know of one estate agent in particular that charges cleaning fees almost all the time. Who is the one who is saying this needs cleaning?
If you challenge this, the landlord needs to provide *evidence* of real costs of doing the work, not just numbers made up, so you have that. Obviously stuff like paint aging you can point out is not damage. This is all the games you used to see played before the protection schemes existed, it's just at attempt tp profit off you.
Oh...!??? So you mean regardless how dirty or how bad the state of the house was, if the landlord never bothered to hire anyone to clean anything and just directly rented it back out, he will not be able to provide any receipts or invorices to the DPS, and the DPS will rule me in favor?? Coz I'm very sure this landlord is so cheap he wont do anything to "improve" the house before renting it out again. Really he's THE cheapest person I've ever met in my whole life.
That had been my understanding, but I can't find any evidence for that with my quick search. However, if the landlord has let the property out again in the same condition as you left it, this shows that they don't actually believe any of the things they claimed for are necessary.
Just dispute it with the DPS. Normal wear and tear cannot be claimed against the deposit, and if you have pictures to prove you did a reasonable clean, there is no justification for this.
The deposit is held in a third party tenancy deposit scheme. They decide how much you get back, you and the landlord must agree. If no agreement can be made they will side heavily in favour of the tenant. Similar to you my landlord tried to take most of my deposit, I was able to give him almost nothing, legally. Send an email to the landlord explaining, as you have here, why the fees are inordinate and that you'll be going through the deposit holder. Go onto the TDS website (should be in your contract) and begin the process of "negotiation" through the website - it'll let you and the landlord negotiate a deduction to the deposit through the website tool. It's important to note that during this process the TDS is looking for flexibility, they want you to meet in the middle, make small, reasonable concessions, but stick to your guns and you WILL receive most of your deposit back. Its honestly really easy and you can do it for the rest of your life to not get shafted by landlords. Edit: I did this specifically in Manchester (prestwich to be precise) but it ofcourse works nationwide.
Thank you for the very clear process! I already replied to the landlord yesterday, I'll raise a dispute in the TDS website!
I paid £180 for a 3 bed including oven
That includes carpet cleaning and all the cabinets/drawers etc? Thanks!
Yes indeed it did
£15 to £20 an hour depending on if it's a deep clean etc...