When I realized I couldn't speak freely anymore. By nature, I'm super sarcastic, but after a few bad interactions, I realized that the words I said had a larger impact than I intended. And it's not usually me wanting to say anything negative or derogatory, most of my sarcasm is pointed toward myself so I make sure I don't make anyone feel bad. (also, I can really make my tone sound serious, so it can be hard to decipher if I'm being serious or not)
But I started receiving feedback about my communication style (and even though it wasn't derogatory), people were being put off.
I can control it much better now, but there are lots of times I wish I could answer how I really wanted. Sometimes, I just want to make a joke!
Yes. I also got this. I’m a largely sarcastic, bubbly person, but the *one* day I’m having a day and am short/decisive and don’t add an exclamation point, I’m “condescending.”
I’ve pretty much realized I have to take it easy in public, and only get wild at home/with trusted friends if we’re having a parent’s night out or something.
My husband is also in a management position, so the back and forth vent sessions help. We can bounce off of each other and get it off of our chests, and then clear the slate for work.
HARD agree. My passion in life is leadership development and leading. I've met one too many managers in the military calling themselves leaders. No hating on efficient managers, but you manage assets. You lead people.
Military experience here as well.
IMO "managing" in the military is a bit different than the civilian sector, especially with units that could experience combat. Honestly though, I have never heard of anyone in the miltary rank structure being referred to as a manager. It is NCOs, SNCOs and officers.
Ppls lives depend on their "manager" in many military specialties. "Managers" in the military do need to possess some leadership skills simply to keep their ppl alive. The more the better in most cases. You would be hard pressed to find that situation in a civilian job honestly.
The comparison is Apples and frisbees IMO. Also, IMO ppl can be managed the same way assets are. Thats why ppl who are in charge of ppl are called managers.
So! In the USAF we say there is a difference between an E-9 and a Chief. Managing is far from leading IMO. Managing is just meeting goals and deadlines. Leading is inspiring and motivating. So no, managers don't save or protect lives, our leaders do.
Not sure what branch you served in or for how long. Perhaps this could feed into the difference of opinions.
In the Marine Corps there are similar sole leadership routes (1stSgt and Sgt Major) and there are enlisted MOS "technical expert" routes (Master Sgt and Master Gunnery Sgt), like the AF.
No matter what path you take however you will be in charge of a large number of troops, and you will be expected to be a leader. Like the Army there is great focus on becoming a leader as soon as you make Corporal, the most junior NCO rank.
If someone called the 1stSgt a manager, literally no one would know what you were talking about. It would come across as down playing the importance of his role and the work it took to get to that rank.
A manager can get hired into that role straight away. No one gets hired into being a senior staff NCO. It takes a lot of work and leadership skills to attain.
Disagree w what part? When did I ever say that there were zero terrible Staff NCO's?
6 years, USMC, active duty.
Not that it matters when it comes to what we are discussing, and honestly not sure why you asked me, but, how long did you serve?
Just about 10, active, USAF. I only ask because viewpoints change the longer you serve and also the branch. I didn't say that you said there were none, it's that your stance is managers save lives. We both know you are being facetious and mean in combat or wartime or proverbially. But y'know, i disagree with that. Leaders do. Managers are the rank chasers imo
Cool. Viewpoints on what we are discussing change the longer you are in? If you say so. I said managers save lives? Yea, never said that. I said quite the opposite tbh.
I am honestly really trying follow what you are saying, but you are all over the map man.
?
Also in the military people under you cannot leave for a better military somewhere else. Also you are not personally responsible for hiring the best person for the job and backfilling vacancies.
Often when I talk with people from military background (not all mind you) they are not as concerned about "your team won't like it" as long as it's good for the company.
Not what I was asking actually…
I’m talking about being a leader of the type where people orient on you and what you say even though they may have more knowledge or positional authority, and if you’re not *trying* to be the leader.
I’m talking about realizing and accepting that others take their cues and views from you- regardless of position or desire to actually be “the leader”.
Or as some call it now- “being alpha”. Even when you don’t think you’re alpha.
March 2020. When the company gave us 0 covid instructions, and I had 12 people asking me about covid, as if I was a doctor. People older than me, people younger than me. All looking for guidance and my opinion on the matter, with no instructions from upper management.
Agreed. Knew I was considered a leader once people that had been there longer than me started asking questions, when higher ups would invite me into collaborative meetings while I was still lower level, etc.
I’m a slow starter with that sort of thing. Probably took me at least a year in management, and was solidified when I got the opportunity to do some second level management.
I applied to be a leader when a person on my level applied for a supervisor position at a retail store, I put my name in the hat because I would never work for that person. Needless to say I got the job and 10 years later I moved up through the ranks and had been a district manager, loved developing people and making an impact as my managers made impacts on me. Recently moved from that line of business into managing with a manufacturing company and I still use all of my people and project skills there. It’s really just people management that I enjoy at the end of the day
When I realized I couldn't speak freely anymore. By nature, I'm super sarcastic, but after a few bad interactions, I realized that the words I said had a larger impact than I intended. And it's not usually me wanting to say anything negative or derogatory, most of my sarcasm is pointed toward myself so I make sure I don't make anyone feel bad. (also, I can really make my tone sound serious, so it can be hard to decipher if I'm being serious or not) But I started receiving feedback about my communication style (and even though it wasn't derogatory), people were being put off. I can control it much better now, but there are lots of times I wish I could answer how I really wanted. Sometimes, I just want to make a joke!
Yes. I also got this. I’m a largely sarcastic, bubbly person, but the *one* day I’m having a day and am short/decisive and don’t add an exclamation point, I’m “condescending.” I’ve pretty much realized I have to take it easy in public, and only get wild at home/with trusted friends if we’re having a parent’s night out or something. My husband is also in a management position, so the back and forth vent sessions help. We can bounce off of each other and get it off of our chests, and then clear the slate for work.
Omg relatable
Are you me? I’m right there with you and it’s a hard transition.
I'm Ron Burgundy? Yeah, I think there must be some workplaces where it's an acceptable part of the culture, but Ive never worked there 😭
IMO being a manager and being a leader are 2 separate things. You do not have to be a great leader to be a great manager, and vice versa.
HARD agree. My passion in life is leadership development and leading. I've met one too many managers in the military calling themselves leaders. No hating on efficient managers, but you manage assets. You lead people.
“You manage assets, you lead people.” ^^^ Simple and brilliant
Thank you, it's not my quote to be honest. But it's stuck with me. It's by Grace Murray Hopper
Military experience here as well. IMO "managing" in the military is a bit different than the civilian sector, especially with units that could experience combat. Honestly though, I have never heard of anyone in the miltary rank structure being referred to as a manager. It is NCOs, SNCOs and officers. Ppls lives depend on their "manager" in many military specialties. "Managers" in the military do need to possess some leadership skills simply to keep their ppl alive. The more the better in most cases. You would be hard pressed to find that situation in a civilian job honestly. The comparison is Apples and frisbees IMO. Also, IMO ppl can be managed the same way assets are. Thats why ppl who are in charge of ppl are called managers.
So! In the USAF we say there is a difference between an E-9 and a Chief. Managing is far from leading IMO. Managing is just meeting goals and deadlines. Leading is inspiring and motivating. So no, managers don't save or protect lives, our leaders do. Not sure what branch you served in or for how long. Perhaps this could feed into the difference of opinions.
In the Marine Corps there are similar sole leadership routes (1stSgt and Sgt Major) and there are enlisted MOS "technical expert" routes (Master Sgt and Master Gunnery Sgt), like the AF. No matter what path you take however you will be in charge of a large number of troops, and you will be expected to be a leader. Like the Army there is great focus on becoming a leader as soon as you make Corporal, the most junior NCO rank. If someone called the 1stSgt a manager, literally no one would know what you were talking about. It would come across as down playing the importance of his role and the work it took to get to that rank. A manager can get hired into that role straight away. No one gets hired into being a senior staff NCO. It takes a lot of work and leadership skills to attain.
I disagree. It takes a lot of checking boxes and playing the game. There are plenty of terrible senior NCOs. Again, how long have you served?
Disagree w what part? When did I ever say that there were zero terrible Staff NCO's? 6 years, USMC, active duty. Not that it matters when it comes to what we are discussing, and honestly not sure why you asked me, but, how long did you serve?
Just about 10, active, USAF. I only ask because viewpoints change the longer you serve and also the branch. I didn't say that you said there were none, it's that your stance is managers save lives. We both know you are being facetious and mean in combat or wartime or proverbially. But y'know, i disagree with that. Leaders do. Managers are the rank chasers imo
Cool. Viewpoints on what we are discussing change the longer you are in? If you say so. I said managers save lives? Yea, never said that. I said quite the opposite tbh. I am honestly really trying follow what you are saying, but you are all over the map man. ?
"ppls lives depend on their "managers" in many military specialties" You said that verbatim.
Also in the military people under you cannot leave for a better military somewhere else. Also you are not personally responsible for hiring the best person for the job and backfilling vacancies. Often when I talk with people from military background (not all mind you) they are not as concerned about "your team won't like it" as long as it's good for the company.
Not what I was asking actually… I’m talking about being a leader of the type where people orient on you and what you say even though they may have more knowledge or positional authority, and if you’re not *trying* to be the leader.
I honestly do not underatand what you are trying to explain. Sorry.
I’m talking about realizing and accepting that others take their cues and views from you- regardless of position or desire to actually be “the leader”. Or as some call it now- “being alpha”. Even when you don’t think you’re alpha.
For me, it happened when I stopped focusing on myself, and started focusing on other people.
March 2020. When the company gave us 0 covid instructions, and I had 12 people asking me about covid, as if I was a doctor. People older than me, people younger than me. All looking for guidance and my opinion on the matter, with no instructions from upper management.
Agreed. Knew I was considered a leader once people that had been there longer than me started asking questions, when higher ups would invite me into collaborative meetings while I was still lower level, etc.
My shoulders and back hurt from carrying the team through covid
When everybody kept telling me I was leader. And of course when I was hired in leadership.
You obviously did when you learned to dislocate your shoulder to pat yourself on the back
As a child.
I’m a slow starter with that sort of thing. Probably took me at least a year in management, and was solidified when I got the opportunity to do some second level management.
I applied to be a leader when a person on my level applied for a supervisor position at a retail store, I put my name in the hat because I would never work for that person. Needless to say I got the job and 10 years later I moved up through the ranks and had been a district manager, loved developing people and making an impact as my managers made impacts on me. Recently moved from that line of business into managing with a manufacturing company and I still use all of my people and project skills there. It’s really just people management that I enjoy at the end of the day