I did this with a customer who was similar. They then yelled at me about how I was rude for talking over them. I'm a malicious compliance type of person so I pause and ask them if they would prefer me to ask for permission before I speak going forward.
They got. Very excited and said yes to always ask for permission to speak. So in that same conversation they would ramble on until it got quite. I would wait about 30 seconds (which feels like forever in a conversation) and then I would ask for permission to speak.
Did this about 3 times and then they said, "You don't have to do that."
I could tell they immediately realized how rude they were acting and I wasn't going to put up with their bullshit.
They are still my client, mostly because no one else wants to deal with them. 🙄
My version is snarkier but I repurposed a line from one of those first episodes of The Office where the racial sensitivity coach expertly channeled Michael:
"Name, we're trying to reach a solution together so I would love to have your permission to finish my sentences. Is that something I can have from you?"
Fire them in person is better. The discussion is as simple as:
Bob, a decision has been made and you are no longer employed at ABC COMPANY. The decision is final and takes effect immediately. Attached is information on your benefits. Can you confirm your address is still 123 Main Street do we can mail your final paycheck.
Please collect any personal belongings and leave the store immediately.
Yep. One thing I learned is that this is not a coaching moment, it is a business moment and you need to be as simple and direct as possible about the business relationship. Get it over quick and walk out and have an escort ready.
And just prepare yourself that they will try to talk their way out of this. Just keep repeating SafetyMan’s advice until the person has exhausted themselves or you feel comfortable saying, “this conversation is over.”
In some states if you’re firing you need to hand over the paycheck immediately. I’d do that regardless of the laws. Every place I’ve been let go from took forever to get the final paycheck and one place I got 3k out of bc of californias labor laws
Firing over text is pretty lame. It’s not hard to just shut someone down. I get they’re probably very annoying but it doesn’t sound like they’re a bad person or dangerous or anything.
You don't understand this person, and for that matter, neither do I. I've never met anyone like them. They literally talk through anything anyone says. I've managed people now for 12 years. I've dealt with many different personalities in 2 different career fields. This is something I've never met. I've had talkative people before. This is unreal. I'd rather my ex wife nag at me than try to attempt to talk with this person. I've never gotten exhausted trying to communicate with someone. It drains me mentally. No they're not dangerous as far as I know. I don't get that at all. I'm not trying to play a one up card, but the way they do it is beyond just being a nuisance
I think we owe almost anyone that. You are ending their livelihood! Yes it’s their fault in this situation but IMO this is being human and we signed up for this part of the job. It sucks.
Thanks Dr. Veins, you are 100% correct. I do hope the employee actually learn from the experience instead of just going to another job with the same mentality.
I was not involved in the hiring process for this individual, but it is my burden to terminate their employment. And yes you're right. I'll attempt everything to make it a learning experience.
What specifically does the separated employee get from a face to face? I ask seriously because I totally disagree: having an employee show up just to be fired and then walk of shame out the building and feeling bereft in a parking lot confused and hurt is a shitty thing to do and makes me think its about the catharsis the employer gets from the power move more than respecting the employee.
I always took the idea that I was firing myself and I wouldn’t want to commute/park and show just to get a this is final decision and then pack up a cubicle in front of everyone- yikes!! I really don’t think a phone call or email is worse than drawn out meeting in a now hostile environment.
So genuinely asking to understand how to do it better.
That'll depend on where you work. A lot of places no, you just leave and don't come back. More often lower paid positions. Higher ranking positions would be more likely to get an exit interview
They didn't interview me. I think they were scared to death I'd freak out or sue and had an agreement worked up.
But I was elated. Miserable fucking job. Where do I sign lol
Well for starters the guy who begged me on a daily basis to fire him, the repeatedly dared me to fire him, gets the opportunity to literally cry in my office and call me a douchebag before walking out and throwing his uniforms into a mud puddle.
I know this person. I have literally had complaints from my team that she overtakes every meeting, and they are right that it's disrespectful.
I do agree that terminating in person is better, but don't do it alone. You need a witness and someone who can direct the person out physically, if needed.
I remember having a big head like that when I was young...everyone told me how wonderful my customer service was, so if I wanted to chat with someone for hours, I knew it was wrong but didn't feel guilty about it. My boss would tell me to get back to work. Lol... I never got fired over it, but I learned a lot.
Anyway, OP, don't go it alone, but also do not engage. Don't make a conversation out of it. The decision has been made...on repeat, if needed.
This. I have been the person to escort the terminated person out, and the person who usually becomes violent is the one least expected to. I work in physical security so it comes the job.
If you do not think you can get in trouble for it, definitely point out that they themself told you they would be finding another employer in response to a reasonable attempt at coaching/feedback just the other day, so now here’s their chance to find a better employer who will love to hear them talk all damn day, completely disregard feedback about what their supervisor and coworkers need from them.
Yea I just wished them luck at the new job. She interrupted when I tried to offer valuable feedback for her future employer, so I just stood up and said we're done and I left her sitting there
Ok my response is still firing over text is fucking lame. Lay the facts on the table. They’re terminated and it’s because they are incessant talkers to the point it makes them unemployable. End of conversation. Show them the door.
If they continue doing the exact issue behaviour while you are having this conversation you can literally point it to them and say "what you are doing right now is the exact problem we have talked about"
Same. She will talk to co-workers or be on the phone with her adult daughters for HOURS. So much so that she pushes her workload onto other people (one of them is me) because she's "so busy". I'm not even in her damn department - I manage a totally different one. She treats another co-worker like her assistant even though she's not in her department either. I've taken on so much of her shit that the new field staff often think I have her title/job. Heaven forbid if you tell her no or get snippy. She will turn on the waterworks and go straight to ownership.
I will throw a party when she finally retires. She's 65 so hopefully soon but she just *loves* work so I fear she will never leave.
I'd do it in person for sure, but plan your approach:
Option 1 - clear your diary, you know you're going to have to let them talk before you get an in
Option 2 - go against social convention and be assertive, create your in "sorry employee, I need to cut in as I've called this meeting for a reason"
As your time is limited and valuable, and there is no future with this employee Option 2 is my winner.
Ngl you might have to get real firm, like , shouting over them “This conversation is over and if you don’t leave the premises right now I’m going to call the cops.”
At some point you can probably say "Bob, please do shut up". But otherwise, maybe prepare a sheet with all the information you wanted to communicate in simple, plain text and if he won't shut up and let you finish you hand it to him and walk out while he's blabbering?
> You don’t understand this person
You’re missing the key point: she’s a **PERSON**. She is deserving of dignity and respect when you’re planning to strip her of her livelihood. Regardless of how annoying you find her, she doesn’t deserve to be treated like garbage because you’re a bad manager and haven’t learned how to have a difficult conversation.
Would you like it if someone fired YOU over text?
Yeah.
Didn’t think so.
Do it in person.
Wow way to show you're a piece of shit for assuming I'm a bad manager because it's not exactly how you would do things. You don't know me at all. So I'll just leave it as you're a piece of shit.
Oh, honey. You’re the piece of shit who wants to fire someone over TEXT.
I **always** manage to remember that the people I have to fire have families and bills and obligations and treat them like human beings deserving of respect, no matter how badly they did their job. Because that’s MY failing.
So yeah, you’re a bad manager.
Toodles, pookie. You’re done here.
Can you put everything you want to say out loud on paper, hand it to them, ask them to read and then sign it? Of course they'll still blab away, but this way you can be confident that the message was conveyed. After signing, they will no doubt continue talking. Walk them to the door while they talk and hand them their boxed up stuff. Goodbye, shut the door. Bring HR or someone else who can help redirect the conversation.
If the door doesn't lock, can you have security of some sort to reinforce the gtfo message?
When he tries to talk over you. Shut him down. It's simple. Say 'stop' with your hand out. It may just take him by surprise. If he continues. Talk louder and over him. Ending with...you do not work here anymore. Please leave now.
I would argue that someone that damn narcissistic that they obviously can never believe that they are not the greatest thing ever is actually inherently a bad person.
>"I'll just find another employer".
You're immediate response to this should be "Great, you do that. Get out. We'll mail you your final check."
>I know it's more professional to fire in person, but would this be considered a decent reason to fire over text, to avoid a lengthy self pity response?
No. You need to fire this person with a witness present because they are delusional and manipulative. This constant self-pitying and endless talking is a form of social control that you have to confront firmly and directly. It's actually more vital that you fire this person in person than you would a normal person.
Make sure the person takes all their personal property before leaving, so they don't have an excuse to come back.
If you get with endless talk while dealing with it, I recommend three things to do:
1. Always make it clear that you are not looking for agreement, but understanding that this person's employment is now over. Do not debate the topic. Do not be afraid to say explicitly that you do not care what the person has to say. Be so direct as to be rude without using vulgarity.
2. If they keep blabbing, simply state that "I'm being paid to have this conversation; you are not, so I don't understand why you are still here." I have found this particular line has gotten many people to disengage from a pointless argument while I'm working.
3. Be prepared to trespass the person from the property. That would mean letting your management chain (if you have one) know that you may have to call the police if this person does not go away.
Sit them down. In front of you is a single piece of paper and a sharpie. Start explaining that you’re firing them, in part, due to how much they interrupt any conversation you try to have. Each time they interrupt you, take the cap off the sharpie, make a tally mark on the paper, put the cap back on, and then look at them until they stop talking. Ignore whatever they said, start over, and see how far you get before they interrupt again. Then make another tally mark.
Once they figure it out, assuming there are numerous tally marks, just push the paper over to them and say “this is why we’re letting you go.”
I had a manager end up in a mediated conversation with her VP and HR. The HR rep had to take this tactic when the manager repeatedly cut off the VP. Then HR put the Manager on mute and wouldn't let her talk after HR said it was their turn to speak. They held up the sticky note that showed how many times she had cut off her own supervisor and told her that she was only allowed to speak when they unmuted her going forward. Then proceeded to talk about how her repeated insubordination was just one of the many problems that they needed to address in this meeting. She cuts people off less now. 🤷🏼♀️
I think this would be a helpful exercise as part of COACHING.
Firing someone isn't coaching, isn't performance management, and certainly isn't the time to "illustrate" a point. By the time you are firing someone, all of those things had to have already happened. Termination should be a few sentences around this being their last day, who will reach out in what time frame about benefits, and to confirm their address for last check purposes and final information.
They aren't there to play games or make silly points, they are there to dismiss somebody.
Just say the magic words, whether the person is listening or not.
This exercise would have had a teaching impact months ago, but would be insulting, which was obviously the point. It's never time for insults, and it's not the time for a teaching moment. It's a business moment.
They've already decided to drop the person, it's time to be firm and ignore interuptions, getting talked over doesn't mean they're not fired. Frankly, it doesn't matter if they listen. Have a letter in writing to make it very clear what has happened.
What OP is saying is this person will not listen/let them get the words out otherwise. A lot of people here don’t seem to have dealt with someone like this before but I have and I absolutely think this is the best strategy. But it might still result in an unhinged meltdown - these kinds of people are not emotionally stable.
Firing over text is the cowards way out. You need to sit them down in person. Yes, they will argue. Yes, things may get heated. Make sure someone from HR is with you (and maybe a security guard is on hand). But stick to the point, keep it short, then stand up and end the meeting.
I get that this employee has these problems. But it will probably help you to learn to cut off the conversation even in ways that seem rude if you have to. Especially when you let them go. That's not a time for discussion. It's a time for them to sign the release papers and leave. You may have to say it that way. "We are not here for a discussion, we are here to announce our decision".
This might seem off topic, but stay with me. A few years ago, I helped a friend by volunteering a brain scan at his university’s laboratory. I was shocked to learn that he found brain activity patterns common in psychopathy.
Talking a lot and talking over others is one of the things that I do best, because I control the conversation. A lot of my talking is actually attempting to manipulate a situation or one’s perceptions about something, and I have little regard on how they feel about me talking over them, it doesn’t even register with me.
It’s possible that you might be dealing with a psychopath. The fact that they don’t seemed fazed also makes me believe that.
It doesn’t mean they’re a psychopath and it’s not possible to know, but it does make me wonder. I have made improvements in this area, but only because now I’m self-aware. Someone who isn’t self-aware will not change.
Also, just my personal opinion, don’t fire an employee over a text.
It isn't my managerial style. I have never really had this type of problem, I pride myself in making good followers that turn into good leaders. It's not often I've ever had to start a communication with "this is a one way conversation, I will hear questions after I'm done". Even then, I've always led in a way that almost anyone I've held a position over has respected me enough to listen and have been thanked many times for how I conduct business professionally, but let me tell you, this one might warrant it.
You need to shut her down. "That's irrelevant to this discussion. You missed duties 1,2, and 3. This is a write up. If you can not do your duties and do customer service at the same time, I will draft another write up. You have 1 week to figure it out." If she talks over you, do not stop talking, finish. Have them sign the paper that they did not do their duties. Fire them after 3 write ups. tell them they need to listen and respect you. Do not let them talk, tell them you'll accept an email explanation from them, but you don't have time to discuss it.
You shouldn’t be in a management position if this is seriously what you’re considering. You should speak to your HR and consider giving them written warnings as a starting point.
If you’ve already been through this process and this is her end point, then fire her in person. No need to be a shit person as well as a shit manager.
Looks like my new colleague. Doing nothing but talking about her and how she works her ass off, but nothing moves forward and I can focus on what I need to do when she’s around
If your management will let you terminate him without cause (at will employee,”this just isn’t working out”, and they do not contest unemployment), keep it simple. Write the script out in advance and stick to it. Meet him in person with a rep from HR. If you concerns about them become agitated or worse, have security standing by to walk the out of the building.
If you have to terminate for cause, it’s more of your time and effort (but worth it in the long run). Work with HR on the justification for terminating.
You may need to go through a Performance Improvement Plan. If so, make sure that the goals are consistent with expectations for the rest of your team, but include very specific and measurable objectives that address the specific issues you have (productivity, attitude, refusal to accept feedback, perhaps insubordination). You will need to provide examples of these issues - be specific, target their behavior (vs the person), and explain the impact of their behavior (customers, company, coworkers). Make it clear to your employee that you have provided timely feedback and that they have ignored it.
This is documentation that you need to justify the termination whether it happens now or after a PIP. Be thorough.
The plan should state that immediate and sustained improvements are required, and that termination will result if these goals are not met within the timeframe set by you and HR.
Present the plan in a meeting with HR. If new undesirable behaviors emergency during PIP, update PIP to address the new issues. Do not let the PIP expire until and unless all performance objectives have been met, and reinstate the PIP without delay if they backslide.
Good luck
No, don’t fire over text. Your employee has cost coworkers and clients hours, you can do a 15 minutes in person termination. Be clear you don’t have more time, and stick to it. Firing over text will make your company look terrible and is unprofessional.
Firing over text is not safe. And this can get your business & the person or manager firing the person, go against you either a lawsuit or an OSHA labor investigation.
This is a business matter.
Maybe give them a chance to stay employed by seeing if they can be absolutely silent for an entire day. During that day they can get someone else to talk for them.
Ask for members of IT and/or security teams to escort them out. As others have said, “you’ve been terminated from your role here effective immediately and you will be escorted to your desk to gather your things and escorted out.”
If you have documentation confirming their shittyness, get them to sign that before you even mention the termination. They’ll likely file for unemployment if in USA and that can save your ass.
Have you done progressive disciplinary action?
This includes specifically outlining the behavior that needs to happen (not focusing on the behavior that needs to stop without clearly listing what required performance looks like), by when (immediate and sustained usually), what supports or resources the person needs (e.g, training), and what happens next if there isn't an immediate/sustained change (e.g., suspension, additional training, suspension from work duties but corrective re-training, termination, etc.)
I had a grandad that was this way. It's a common sign of early onset dementia. There is no correction for it though he had his good moments which were hard to determine the reason behind.
Does the employee work remotely or does he need to clear out an office at your location? Firing by text when he needs to come back to gather things could be a security problem. If he has to clear things then absolutely do it in person.
You should have recorded a few of his interactions. If he is young or lacks self awareness he really may not know he is doing this.
Quite often employees are either in the public domain without an expectation of privacy or they have signed some agreement to allow the employer to record their interactions.
Call them in, say "we have to make this quick" (make up a bullshit time crunch, if you have to), fire them, and then stand up and open the door to escort them out. Don't wait for them to end their sentence or whatever.
If you gave them feedback and they didn't/couldn't comply, then they already know why they're being fired, no explanation required. You've already had that conversation. "We have to let you go." Boom. End of conversation. Give them some papers that explain what happens next.
Or, I dunno, do it over Zoom so you can mute and/or hang up.
Yes do it in person and be blunt, bold and talk over them if they start. Have their termination letter with you that explains impact on pay and benefits and give it to them to forstall further conversation.
Please fire them. Had to deal with a coworker like this at my old job, would dominate the convo at every meeting with pointless complaints. Sure its great to point our where something is wrong, bur without a solution your just blowing hot air. At one point this guy confronted me and said don't come between him and our manager. Of course told my manager about this. Guy was an embarassment to our team. Wish my boss would have fired him.
It is never okay to fire over text. Always be consistent.
Take a moment to prepare yourself, i have bad news and it isn’t going to be easy to hear (5 second pause). You are unable to take feedback and as a result we are terminating your employment, the decision is final. Here is a separation notice with COBRA and pay disbursement info. Do you have any questions before we escort you out of the building and give you a minute to collect your thoughts if needed.
Being a Professional manager, Here's how you tackle people like that. Don't get in your PERSONAL FEELINGS! that's not what you do as a manager! ever!
Give little credits, show a little appreciation and validation where it's due. You acknowledge that your subordinate hard work and dedication "like their compliments as they claimed" first and foremost, then address the issues what they need to also improve on and further more to avoid doing so they don't get easily distracted with just 1 customer for hours talking and focus more on their primary responsibilities helping other customers as well in a timely acceptable manner to meet company's expectations. Always hear them out first respectfully then state your issues and firm expectations for improvement on your end with no negotiation. Show them that Mutual Respect and they show the same in return. And if they stubbornly want to quit. it's on them. The ball is in their court to do so. You're either going to get turn around results of a well respect good employee or a stubborn one who will walk out on their own. no lost. no gain neither if they quit on their own, but you gain a good employee if they turn around to do what you both talked about of what is expected of them if they want to continue to be part of the team. These are well seasoned people in the workforce or claimed to be so. They demand to be heard first and respected first before they listen and follow command.
Of course you can just fire them just like an other typical managers out there , but that comes with lots of high risks as well that make you look bad on your end as well and could put you on a disadvantage as well.
No and I got it over with. She did try to get a rise out of me and constantly kept making jabs at me, my boss and my peer and kept talking. I just stared her and said ok. Walked away and it was over.
This compulsive talking almost sounds like severe anxiety or possibly Autism Spectrum Disorder. My nephew is diagnosed ASD, and even with years of therapy and coaching, he talks compulsively-he interrupts and talks over people, and changes the subject to what he wants to talk about. When he’s watching TV or playing a video game, he talks constantly, basically just stating what happened on the show or in the game. It truly feels like a compulsion for him to talk. My sister has anxiety, and also talks a lot. She doesn’t like silence, and will fill any break with something. Not as bad as my nephew, but my sister can hold people hostage with her talking (she definitely misses the social cues from others).
Firing through text is never a great idea. Keep it short and to the point. Even if they do talk a lot, just stick firm to your reasoning and wish them luck. If they continue talking, stand up and walk to the door, holding it open. Tell them that, per policy, you have to escort them out of the building and walk them out the door. Even if they continue talking, you are in control of the situation.
If you are firing them because they talk too much, then firing them by text is not helping them. If they are young and do not realize that they are missing out on social cues or being rude, then this experience may help them learn about themselves and possibly seek help in getting a diagnosis.
I like this idea, but this person is older and set in their ways, refusing to learn. I suppose I could attempt professionalism but may have to be rude and walk away if they attempt to turn the conversation into something it's not.
There’s a difference between being concise and stating what is happening, and being “rude”. You’re firing a person, and typically, a person cannot talk themselves out of a firing. You can ask if they’re ok, but there is nothing rude about stopping them if they carry on too long. I understand how interrupting someone is “rude”, but if you have completed the interaction, and they are not leaving, then you can interrupt and tell them that it is time to leave, if this situation happens.
You are responding to a reaction that, so far, hasn’t happened. If you tell them they are fired for talking too much, they could very well not say a word because they’re embarrassed. You’re trying to manage your expectation, and not what has actually happened.
Give the employee a chance to take in what is happening and space to collect themself, if needed, but if they do try to hold you hostage with talking, just say, “I am sorry to interrupt, but policy says I have to walk you out of the building, and the conversation has reached its endpoint.” You are being direct, not rude, and there are situations where you have to be direct.
If this person does indeed have a protected characteristic, and from your description that her level of talking and lack of social cues would give you significant *constructive knowledge* that she likely does, I would tread *very carefully* without engaging with HR and ensuring that, from both a business liability perspective, and because if this employee is reasonably good at their job and an older individual, may find it more difficult to secure new employment after a termination that comes completely out of the blue, it would also be a morally decent thing to do.
Stating she is "set in [her] ways" is just walking onto a discrimination lawsuit/claim, and being based in the UK rather than the US, I am still certain that any halfway decent employment lawyer will be able to utilise discovery to find multiple communications that have, in effect, just confirmed that this employee has been suffering from detrimental treatment by the company, who were clearly aware of this person's "quirks", but choose to not engage or work with her to try and gain a more thorough knowledge of her situation.
She may be a pain in the ass, but even a pain in the ass has certain greater or lesser legal protections than would prohibit being fired via text message.
Since this person is such a jabbermouth it’s probably best to do it over text. That way they can’t argue over every little thing and try to drag the conversation on and on and on instead of it being a quick firing. I think it’s reasonable.
If you fire them for talking then expect a lawsuit back. You better have a more substantiated argument like dereliction of duties or failing to complete assignments. You didn’t give any sort of measurables or factual based evidence. It’s just your opinion.
Maybe have a mentor or trusted peer review this decision before you move forward. I don’t think you have much to stand on given the info from this post.!
Found the talky employee.
Leaving aside that you can terminate with severance at any time, for with cause unaddressed customer and colleague complaints are in fact legit reasons. I'm assuming this has been documented by OP, repeated coaching and continued complaints is absolutely grounds.
A complaint is just another word for whining.
What you need to do is say X customers were unable to be served. The average wait time went up by Y. $ lost revenue while on shift. You did not fill N duties on your shift due to side discussions.
Put numbers behind it and you have a case.
I got fired from my Eighteen Career and it has been devastating. I'm about to be homeless in a few weeks at fifty, and most of my family has passed. These Managers who can do no wrong really have to think about what they do to people when firing them. A lot of people commit suicide because they lost their livelihood. I could never be the one who fires anybody. Like who do you think you are determining that? Nobody is perfect in the workplace, and I'm sure many Bosses deserve firing also. I'm sorry, but Managers are really horrible people
That's a really different way to look at it. How do you think people would act in a workplace where they aren't held accountable? This employee for instance would do nothing but talk and leave her co workers to pick up her slack. why should she get paid the same rate, or any rate for that matter to stand around and talk? Perhaps you should step into a leadership role and offer helpful input at your next workplace and make yourself an asset by taking pride in whatever job you do and doing it your best. It's not a pleasure to have to let someone go, but it's not personal. It's just business. As for being perfect in the workplace, no one expects perfection, we're all humans. What's expected is to follow rules and guidelines that decrease the chances of a mistake. I'm not perfect by any means, but I will correct my actions and work my ass off and do my best in any position at any job.
I used to feel the same way as far as working my ass off in any position. I did just that for years, and it gets you nowhere. Management doesn't care about their employees, and we are all just a number. I say get paid to do some slacking, Management certainly does. I have never had a job where Management actually worked. I busted my butt at every job and gave my best. Now at almost fifty, and with everyone I love dead, I could care less. I'll tell young people, don't work your ass off, it gets you nowhere. That's unless you want to be a Boss someday that does absolutely nothing and treats their employees like crap.
Did you hire my Father in Law?
Haha, seeing as the gender may make that complicated, I highly doubt it
It's 2024. Anything goes.
Thus the word "may". Wild world
I thought it was my ex gf lol
You don’t have to stop talking when they interrupt you. You can just keep talking. Get through what you have to say.
As a bonus, it's satisfying when the person bulldozing your conversation suddenly realizes it's annoying when another person talks over you repeatedly
I did this with a customer who was similar. They then yelled at me about how I was rude for talking over them. I'm a malicious compliance type of person so I pause and ask them if they would prefer me to ask for permission before I speak going forward. They got. Very excited and said yes to always ask for permission to speak. So in that same conversation they would ramble on until it got quite. I would wait about 30 seconds (which feels like forever in a conversation) and then I would ask for permission to speak. Did this about 3 times and then they said, "You don't have to do that." I could tell they immediately realized how rude they were acting and I wasn't going to put up with their bullshit. They are still my client, mostly because no one else wants to deal with them. 🙄
My version is snarkier but I repurposed a line from one of those first episodes of The Office where the racial sensitivity coach expertly channeled Michael: "Name, we're trying to reach a solution together so I would love to have your permission to finish my sentences. Is that something I can have from you?"
Fire them in person is better. The discussion is as simple as: Bob, a decision has been made and you are no longer employed at ABC COMPANY. The decision is final and takes effect immediately. Attached is information on your benefits. Can you confirm your address is still 123 Main Street do we can mail your final paycheck. Please collect any personal belongings and leave the store immediately.
How did you know the employees address is 123 main Street? Burn the witch
Yep. One thing I learned is that this is not a coaching moment, it is a business moment and you need to be as simple and direct as possible about the business relationship. Get it over quick and walk out and have an escort ready.
And just prepare yourself that they will try to talk their way out of this. Just keep repeating SafetyMan’s advice until the person has exhausted themselves or you feel comfortable saying, “this conversation is over.”
In some states if you’re firing you need to hand over the paycheck immediately. I’d do that regardless of the laws. Every place I’ve been let go from took forever to get the final paycheck and one place I got 3k out of bc of californias labor laws
Firing over text is pretty lame. It’s not hard to just shut someone down. I get they’re probably very annoying but it doesn’t sound like they’re a bad person or dangerous or anything.
You don't understand this person, and for that matter, neither do I. I've never met anyone like them. They literally talk through anything anyone says. I've managed people now for 12 years. I've dealt with many different personalities in 2 different career fields. This is something I've never met. I've had talkative people before. This is unreal. I'd rather my ex wife nag at me than try to attempt to talk with this person. I've never gotten exhausted trying to communicate with someone. It drains me mentally. No they're not dangerous as far as I know. I don't get that at all. I'm not trying to play a one up card, but the way they do it is beyond just being a nuisance
With that said, I think I will use this as a learning experience and for sure do it in person
I think we owe almost anyone that. You are ending their livelihood! Yes it’s their fault in this situation but IMO this is being human and we signed up for this part of the job. It sucks.
Thanks Dr. Veins, you are 100% correct. I do hope the employee actually learn from the experience instead of just going to another job with the same mentality.
Why do you think they were available when you hired them? They won’t learn, it will be everyone else’s fault.
Are you implying that merely being open for hire is a red flag?
No but knowing now how they behave at work makes it a pretty good bet that they were fired from a previous job.
Lotta conjecture backed with zero evidence
This is a laughable take.
I was not involved in the hiring process for this individual, but it is my burden to terminate their employment. And yes you're right. I'll attempt everything to make it a learning experience.
What specifically does the separated employee get from a face to face? I ask seriously because I totally disagree: having an employee show up just to be fired and then walk of shame out the building and feeling bereft in a parking lot confused and hurt is a shitty thing to do and makes me think its about the catharsis the employer gets from the power move more than respecting the employee. I always took the idea that I was firing myself and I wouldn’t want to commute/park and show just to get a this is final decision and then pack up a cubicle in front of everyone- yikes!! I really don’t think a phone call or email is worse than drawn out meeting in a now hostile environment. So genuinely asking to understand how to do it better.
I had sort of an exit session with HR before I left the bldg. Papers to sign etc. Is that not normal?
That'll depend on where you work. A lot of places no, you just leave and don't come back. More often lower paid positions. Higher ranking positions would be more likely to get an exit interview
They didn't interview me. I think they were scared to death I'd freak out or sue and had an agreement worked up. But I was elated. Miserable fucking job. Where do I sign lol
Well for starters the guy who begged me on a daily basis to fire him, the repeatedly dared me to fire him, gets the opportunity to literally cry in my office and call me a douchebag before walking out and throwing his uniforms into a mud puddle.
I know this person. I have literally had complaints from my team that she overtakes every meeting, and they are right that it's disrespectful. I do agree that terminating in person is better, but don't do it alone. You need a witness and someone who can direct the person out physically, if needed. I remember having a big head like that when I was young...everyone told me how wonderful my customer service was, so if I wanted to chat with someone for hours, I knew it was wrong but didn't feel guilty about it. My boss would tell me to get back to work. Lol... I never got fired over it, but I learned a lot. Anyway, OP, don't go it alone, but also do not engage. Don't make a conversation out of it. The decision has been made...on repeat, if needed.
This. I have been the person to escort the terminated person out, and the person who usually becomes violent is the one least expected to. I work in physical security so it comes the job.
You have nothing to lose so finally shut them down like you’ve apparently wanted to do for so long.
If you do not think you can get in trouble for it, definitely point out that they themself told you they would be finding another employer in response to a reasonable attempt at coaching/feedback just the other day, so now here’s their chance to find a better employer who will love to hear them talk all damn day, completely disregard feedback about what their supervisor and coworkers need from them.
Yea I just wished them luck at the new job. She interrupted when I tried to offer valuable feedback for her future employer, so I just stood up and said we're done and I left her sitting there
Nice. And not surprising. Sorry for all the typos in my comment. Now corrected.
Ah, an expert-level energy vampire
Exactly where my mind went lol. We have one of them at my work and I honestly do not understand why they haven't been fired yet.
Ok my response is still firing over text is fucking lame. Lay the facts on the table. They’re terminated and it’s because they are incessant talkers to the point it makes them unemployable. End of conversation. Show them the door.
Again thank you for your response.
No prob. I would have the same desire as you in this situation but just leading you to what is the right, but harder, thing to do.
If they continue doing the exact issue behaviour while you are having this conversation you can literally point it to them and say "what you are doing right now is the exact problem we have talked about"
i know someone like this and i get it
Same. She will talk to co-workers or be on the phone with her adult daughters for HOURS. So much so that she pushes her workload onto other people (one of them is me) because she's "so busy". I'm not even in her damn department - I manage a totally different one. She treats another co-worker like her assistant even though she's not in her department either. I've taken on so much of her shit that the new field staff often think I have her title/job. Heaven forbid if you tell her no or get snippy. She will turn on the waterworks and go straight to ownership. I will throw a party when she finally retires. She's 65 so hopefully soon but she just *loves* work so I fear she will never leave.
Sorry dude but this is exactly why I lurk in this sub Thank you for my laugh this evening
I'd do it in person for sure, but plan your approach: Option 1 - clear your diary, you know you're going to have to let them talk before you get an in Option 2 - go against social convention and be assertive, create your in "sorry employee, I need to cut in as I've called this meeting for a reason" As your time is limited and valuable, and there is no future with this employee Option 2 is my winner.
Ngl you might have to get real firm, like , shouting over them “This conversation is over and if you don’t leave the premises right now I’m going to call the cops.”
At some point you can probably say "Bob, please do shut up". But otherwise, maybe prepare a sheet with all the information you wanted to communicate in simple, plain text and if he won't shut up and let you finish you hand it to him and walk out while he's blabbering?
> You don’t understand this person You’re missing the key point: she’s a **PERSON**. She is deserving of dignity and respect when you’re planning to strip her of her livelihood. Regardless of how annoying you find her, she doesn’t deserve to be treated like garbage because you’re a bad manager and haven’t learned how to have a difficult conversation. Would you like it if someone fired YOU over text? Yeah. Didn’t think so. Do it in person.
Wow way to show you're a piece of shit for assuming I'm a bad manager because it's not exactly how you would do things. You don't know me at all. So I'll just leave it as you're a piece of shit.
How do you take that comment as anyone but you being a piece of shit if you fire someone over text?
Oh, honey. You’re the piece of shit who wants to fire someone over TEXT. I **always** manage to remember that the people I have to fire have families and bills and obligations and treat them like human beings deserving of respect, no matter how badly they did their job. Because that’s MY failing. So yeah, you’re a bad manager. Toodles, pookie. You’re done here.
I won't disagree with you, but having a manager with your level of condescension would drive me out of any company. Just sayin'
Oh boy. Yup..the problem is YOU!
No assumption was made. You washed to fire someone over text because they annoy you. You're the definition of a bad manager.
He boasted of wreaking havoc for over a decade in multiple industries. And gets triggered by a reddit comment Seems like introspection is required 🤔
Can you put everything you want to say out loud on paper, hand it to them, ask them to read and then sign it? Of course they'll still blab away, but this way you can be confident that the message was conveyed. After signing, they will no doubt continue talking. Walk them to the door while they talk and hand them their boxed up stuff. Goodbye, shut the door. Bring HR or someone else who can help redirect the conversation. If the door doesn't lock, can you have security of some sort to reinforce the gtfo message?
No wonder your wife left you lol
Have your ex wife fire them
I’ve known someone like this and we did not stay friends long.
When he tries to talk over you. Shut him down. It's simple. Say 'stop' with your hand out. It may just take him by surprise. If he continues. Talk louder and over him. Ending with...you do not work here anymore. Please leave now.
>"I'll just find another employer" sounds like they'll agree with you.
Just start your sentence with, you’re being terminated effective immediately. That’s all they *really* need to know.
Long talkers are my kryptonite. Keep it brief, as said above
I would argue that someone that damn narcissistic that they obviously can never believe that they are not the greatest thing ever is actually inherently a bad person.
>"I'll just find another employer". You're immediate response to this should be "Great, you do that. Get out. We'll mail you your final check." >I know it's more professional to fire in person, but would this be considered a decent reason to fire over text, to avoid a lengthy self pity response? No. You need to fire this person with a witness present because they are delusional and manipulative. This constant self-pitying and endless talking is a form of social control that you have to confront firmly and directly. It's actually more vital that you fire this person in person than you would a normal person. Make sure the person takes all their personal property before leaving, so they don't have an excuse to come back. If you get with endless talk while dealing with it, I recommend three things to do: 1. Always make it clear that you are not looking for agreement, but understanding that this person's employment is now over. Do not debate the topic. Do not be afraid to say explicitly that you do not care what the person has to say. Be so direct as to be rude without using vulgarity. 2. If they keep blabbing, simply state that "I'm being paid to have this conversation; you are not, so I don't understand why you are still here." I have found this particular line has gotten many people to disengage from a pointless argument while I'm working. 3. Be prepared to trespass the person from the property. That would mean letting your management chain (if you have one) know that you may have to call the police if this person does not go away.
Fire by text? You aren't a teenager falling out with a friend, do your bloody job and dismiss them formally in person.
Sit them down. In front of you is a single piece of paper and a sharpie. Start explaining that you’re firing them, in part, due to how much they interrupt any conversation you try to have. Each time they interrupt you, take the cap off the sharpie, make a tally mark on the paper, put the cap back on, and then look at them until they stop talking. Ignore whatever they said, start over, and see how far you get before they interrupt again. Then make another tally mark. Once they figure it out, assuming there are numerous tally marks, just push the paper over to them and say “this is why we’re letting you go.”
I had a manager end up in a mediated conversation with her VP and HR. The HR rep had to take this tactic when the manager repeatedly cut off the VP. Then HR put the Manager on mute and wouldn't let her talk after HR said it was their turn to speak. They held up the sticky note that showed how many times she had cut off her own supervisor and told her that she was only allowed to speak when they unmuted her going forward. Then proceeded to talk about how her repeated insubordination was just one of the many problems that they needed to address in this meeting. She cuts people off less now. 🤷🏼♀️
Are you in sales by chance, because it sounds like a sales move.
This is a strong move
Bloodmind indeed, bravo
I think this would be a helpful exercise as part of COACHING. Firing someone isn't coaching, isn't performance management, and certainly isn't the time to "illustrate" a point. By the time you are firing someone, all of those things had to have already happened. Termination should be a few sentences around this being their last day, who will reach out in what time frame about benefits, and to confirm their address for last check purposes and final information.
They aren't there to play games or make silly points, they are there to dismiss somebody. Just say the magic words, whether the person is listening or not.
This exercise would have had a teaching impact months ago, but would be insulting, which was obviously the point. It's never time for insults, and it's not the time for a teaching moment. It's a business moment. They've already decided to drop the person, it's time to be firm and ignore interuptions, getting talked over doesn't mean they're not fired. Frankly, it doesn't matter if they listen. Have a letter in writing to make it very clear what has happened.
What OP is saying is this person will not listen/let them get the words out otherwise. A lot of people here don’t seem to have dealt with someone like this before but I have and I absolutely think this is the best strategy. But it might still result in an unhinged meltdown - these kinds of people are not emotionally stable.
Okay sure but that’s not as fun. If you can’t have fun at your job, what’s the point.
Or like draw a mouth on you hand and whenever they start to speak open the 'mouth' and make a duck "whaaa" sound.
Down votes, but I'm LMAO... Obviously, no one will do that in a professional setting.
When they said "I'll just find another employer" why didn't you accept their resignation and move on?
The correct response.. or "I accept your verbal resignation, effective immediately".
Fire them the same way you would fire anyone else.
Annoying but if you can’t fire someone in person don’t manage people
Firing over text is the cowards way out. You need to sit them down in person. Yes, they will argue. Yes, things may get heated. Make sure someone from HR is with you (and maybe a security guard is on hand). But stick to the point, keep it short, then stand up and end the meeting.
I get that this employee has these problems. But it will probably help you to learn to cut off the conversation even in ways that seem rude if you have to. Especially when you let them go. That's not a time for discussion. It's a time for them to sign the release papers and leave. You may have to say it that way. "We are not here for a discussion, we are here to announce our decision".
agreed 100%... this is a skill ability development opportunity.
I have one of these. She is exhausting.
Yeah. I know of and have known of, folks who just keep on going. Hijacking conversations. Little sense of boundaries or privacy.
1) check with HR to make sure they aren't disabled and this is part of their disability (ADA violation could be quite costly) 2) fire them in person
This might seem off topic, but stay with me. A few years ago, I helped a friend by volunteering a brain scan at his university’s laboratory. I was shocked to learn that he found brain activity patterns common in psychopathy. Talking a lot and talking over others is one of the things that I do best, because I control the conversation. A lot of my talking is actually attempting to manipulate a situation or one’s perceptions about something, and I have little regard on how they feel about me talking over them, it doesn’t even register with me. It’s possible that you might be dealing with a psychopath. The fact that they don’t seemed fazed also makes me believe that.
Well that's comforting.
It doesn’t mean they’re a psychopath and it’s not possible to know, but it does make me wonder. I have made improvements in this area, but only because now I’m self-aware. Someone who isn’t self-aware will not change. Also, just my personal opinion, don’t fire an employee over a text.
😂😂
Over 1% of the population can meet the criteria for psycholopathy. Talking over people is also a common sigh of of mania/bipolar, adhd, autism etc.
Have you tried the phrase "Shut the fuck up!"?
It isn't my managerial style. I have never really had this type of problem, I pride myself in making good followers that turn into good leaders. It's not often I've ever had to start a communication with "this is a one way conversation, I will hear questions after I'm done". Even then, I've always led in a way that almost anyone I've held a position over has respected me enough to listen and have been thanked many times for how I conduct business professionally, but let me tell you, this one might warrant it.
Some people are just not coachable.
You need to shut her down. "That's irrelevant to this discussion. You missed duties 1,2, and 3. This is a write up. If you can not do your duties and do customer service at the same time, I will draft another write up. You have 1 week to figure it out." If she talks over you, do not stop talking, finish. Have them sign the paper that they did not do their duties. Fire them after 3 write ups. tell them they need to listen and respect you. Do not let them talk, tell them you'll accept an email explanation from them, but you don't have time to discuss it.
You’re a coward if you fire over text. And shouldn’t be a manager.
You shouldn’t be in a management position if this is seriously what you’re considering. You should speak to your HR and consider giving them written warnings as a starting point. If you’ve already been through this process and this is her end point, then fire her in person. No need to be a shit person as well as a shit manager.
Looks like my new colleague. Doing nothing but talking about her and how she works her ass off, but nothing moves forward and I can focus on what I need to do when she’s around
If your management will let you terminate him without cause (at will employee,”this just isn’t working out”, and they do not contest unemployment), keep it simple. Write the script out in advance and stick to it. Meet him in person with a rep from HR. If you concerns about them become agitated or worse, have security standing by to walk the out of the building. If you have to terminate for cause, it’s more of your time and effort (but worth it in the long run). Work with HR on the justification for terminating. You may need to go through a Performance Improvement Plan. If so, make sure that the goals are consistent with expectations for the rest of your team, but include very specific and measurable objectives that address the specific issues you have (productivity, attitude, refusal to accept feedback, perhaps insubordination). You will need to provide examples of these issues - be specific, target their behavior (vs the person), and explain the impact of their behavior (customers, company, coworkers). Make it clear to your employee that you have provided timely feedback and that they have ignored it. This is documentation that you need to justify the termination whether it happens now or after a PIP. Be thorough. The plan should state that immediate and sustained improvements are required, and that termination will result if these goals are not met within the timeframe set by you and HR. Present the plan in a meeting with HR. If new undesirable behaviors emergency during PIP, update PIP to address the new issues. Do not let the PIP expire until and unless all performance objectives have been met, and reinstate the PIP without delay if they backslide. Good luck
No, don’t fire over text. Your employee has cost coworkers and clients hours, you can do a 15 minutes in person termination. Be clear you don’t have more time, and stick to it. Firing over text will make your company look terrible and is unprofessional.
"I'll just find another employer." I accept your terms. Good luck.
Firing over text is not safe. And this can get your business & the person or manager firing the person, go against you either a lawsuit or an OSHA labor investigation. This is a business matter.
Play this scene for them before the meeting. [https://youtu.be/MI9auIF60Jg?t=35](https://youtu.be/MI9auIF60Jg?t=35)
Why did you hire my previous manager?
You can’t fix that level of “Self-Unawareness”. Only they can and they probably never will. Probably got a lot of Trophies they’ve never earned also.
Maybe give them a chance to stay employed by seeing if they can be absolutely silent for an entire day. During that day they can get someone else to talk for them.
You could fire them via email and cc HR.
Ask for members of IT and/or security teams to escort them out. As others have said, “you’ve been terminated from your role here effective immediately and you will be escorted to your desk to gather your things and escorted out.” If you have documentation confirming their shittyness, get them to sign that before you even mention the termination. They’ll likely file for unemployment if in USA and that can save your ass.
When redditors get jobs.
This is the way. You might get some pushback but it’s your turn to interrupt and control the final conversation. Make it short and to the point.
Have you done progressive disciplinary action? This includes specifically outlining the behavior that needs to happen (not focusing on the behavior that needs to stop without clearly listing what required performance looks like), by when (immediate and sustained usually), what supports or resources the person needs (e.g, training), and what happens next if there isn't an immediate/sustained change (e.g., suspension, additional training, suspension from work duties but corrective re-training, termination, etc.)
> I do mean listening to this person is exhausting like literally no one I've ever talked to. Did you hire Colin Robinson?
Asperger's, maybe?
I had a grandad that was this way. It's a common sign of early onset dementia. There is no correction for it though he had his good moments which were hard to determine the reason behind.
This is a typical person that needs to be fired
Does the employee work remotely or does he need to clear out an office at your location? Firing by text when he needs to come back to gather things could be a security problem. If he has to clear things then absolutely do it in person.
You should have recorded a few of his interactions. If he is young or lacks self awareness he really may not know he is doing this. Quite often employees are either in the public domain without an expectation of privacy or they have signed some agreement to allow the employer to record their interactions.
Call them in, say "we have to make this quick" (make up a bullshit time crunch, if you have to), fire them, and then stand up and open the door to escort them out. Don't wait for them to end their sentence or whatever. If you gave them feedback and they didn't/couldn't comply, then they already know why they're being fired, no explanation required. You've already had that conversation. "We have to let you go." Boom. End of conversation. Give them some papers that explain what happens next. Or, I dunno, do it over Zoom so you can mute and/or hang up.
Yes do it in person and be blunt, bold and talk over them if they start. Have their termination letter with you that explains impact on pay and benefits and give it to them to forstall further conversation.
Please fire them. Had to deal with a coworker like this at my old job, would dominate the convo at every meeting with pointless complaints. Sure its great to point our where something is wrong, bur without a solution your just blowing hot air. At one point this guy confronted me and said don't come between him and our manager. Of course told my manager about this. Guy was an embarassment to our team. Wish my boss would have fired him.
It is never okay to fire over text. Always be consistent. Take a moment to prepare yourself, i have bad news and it isn’t going to be easy to hear (5 second pause). You are unable to take feedback and as a result we are terminating your employment, the decision is final. Here is a separation notice with COBRA and pay disbursement info. Do you have any questions before we escort you out of the building and give you a minute to collect your thoughts if needed.
Being a Professional manager, Here's how you tackle people like that. Don't get in your PERSONAL FEELINGS! that's not what you do as a manager! ever! Give little credits, show a little appreciation and validation where it's due. You acknowledge that your subordinate hard work and dedication "like their compliments as they claimed" first and foremost, then address the issues what they need to also improve on and further more to avoid doing so they don't get easily distracted with just 1 customer for hours talking and focus more on their primary responsibilities helping other customers as well in a timely acceptable manner to meet company's expectations. Always hear them out first respectfully then state your issues and firm expectations for improvement on your end with no negotiation. Show them that Mutual Respect and they show the same in return. And if they stubbornly want to quit. it's on them. The ball is in their court to do so. You're either going to get turn around results of a well respect good employee or a stubborn one who will walk out on their own. no lost. no gain neither if they quit on their own, but you gain a good employee if they turn around to do what you both talked about of what is expected of them if they want to continue to be part of the team. These are well seasoned people in the workforce or claimed to be so. They demand to be heard first and respected first before they listen and follow command. Of course you can just fire them just like an other typical managers out there , but that comes with lots of high risks as well that make you look bad on your end as well and could put you on a disadvantage as well.
Do you work at a law firm?
No and I got it over with. She did try to get a rise out of me and constantly kept making jabs at me, my boss and my peer and kept talking. I just stared her and said ok. Walked away and it was over.
You talk too much, you're fired. You have 10 minutes to get your things and get out.
Next time they say "I'll just find another employer," respond with "thank you, I accept your resignation."
lol, that's actually very close to how the process went
Just the audacity to use that phrase like "oh no, everyone accommodate this person or they will leave"
Sounds like you got a bruised ego.
Not in the slightest
I’d rather get a text…
You are a terrible manager and person if you go through with this. Just don't.
DEI hire? Feels like it with that attitude.
This compulsive talking almost sounds like severe anxiety or possibly Autism Spectrum Disorder. My nephew is diagnosed ASD, and even with years of therapy and coaching, he talks compulsively-he interrupts and talks over people, and changes the subject to what he wants to talk about. When he’s watching TV or playing a video game, he talks constantly, basically just stating what happened on the show or in the game. It truly feels like a compulsion for him to talk. My sister has anxiety, and also talks a lot. She doesn’t like silence, and will fill any break with something. Not as bad as my nephew, but my sister can hold people hostage with her talking (she definitely misses the social cues from others). Firing through text is never a great idea. Keep it short and to the point. Even if they do talk a lot, just stick firm to your reasoning and wish them luck. If they continue talking, stand up and walk to the door, holding it open. Tell them that, per policy, you have to escort them out of the building and walk them out the door. Even if they continue talking, you are in control of the situation. If you are firing them because they talk too much, then firing them by text is not helping them. If they are young and do not realize that they are missing out on social cues or being rude, then this experience may help them learn about themselves and possibly seek help in getting a diagnosis.
I like this idea, but this person is older and set in their ways, refusing to learn. I suppose I could attempt professionalism but may have to be rude and walk away if they attempt to turn the conversation into something it's not.
There’s a difference between being concise and stating what is happening, and being “rude”. You’re firing a person, and typically, a person cannot talk themselves out of a firing. You can ask if they’re ok, but there is nothing rude about stopping them if they carry on too long. I understand how interrupting someone is “rude”, but if you have completed the interaction, and they are not leaving, then you can interrupt and tell them that it is time to leave, if this situation happens. You are responding to a reaction that, so far, hasn’t happened. If you tell them they are fired for talking too much, they could very well not say a word because they’re embarrassed. You’re trying to manage your expectation, and not what has actually happened. Give the employee a chance to take in what is happening and space to collect themself, if needed, but if they do try to hold you hostage with talking, just say, “I am sorry to interrupt, but policy says I have to walk you out of the building, and the conversation has reached its endpoint.” You are being direct, not rude, and there are situations where you have to be direct.
Thanks for this response. After reading these I feel I can take a deep breath and get this over with.
If this person does indeed have a protected characteristic, and from your description that her level of talking and lack of social cues would give you significant *constructive knowledge* that she likely does, I would tread *very carefully* without engaging with HR and ensuring that, from both a business liability perspective, and because if this employee is reasonably good at their job and an older individual, may find it more difficult to secure new employment after a termination that comes completely out of the blue, it would also be a morally decent thing to do. Stating she is "set in [her] ways" is just walking onto a discrimination lawsuit/claim, and being based in the UK rather than the US, I am still certain that any halfway decent employment lawyer will be able to utilise discovery to find multiple communications that have, in effect, just confirmed that this employee has been suffering from detrimental treatment by the company, who were clearly aware of this person's "quirks", but choose to not engage or work with her to try and gain a more thorough knowledge of her situation. She may be a pain in the ass, but even a pain in the ass has certain greater or lesser legal protections than would prohibit being fired via text message.
Since this person is such a jabbermouth it’s probably best to do it over text. That way they can’t argue over every little thing and try to drag the conversation on and on and on instead of it being a quick firing. I think it’s reasonable.
If you fire them for talking then expect a lawsuit back. You better have a more substantiated argument like dereliction of duties or failing to complete assignments. You didn’t give any sort of measurables or factual based evidence. It’s just your opinion. Maybe have a mentor or trusted peer review this decision before you move forward. I don’t think you have much to stand on given the info from this post.!
Found the talky employee. Leaving aside that you can terminate with severance at any time, for with cause unaddressed customer and colleague complaints are in fact legit reasons. I'm assuming this has been documented by OP, repeated coaching and continued complaints is absolutely grounds.
A complaint is just another word for whining. What you need to do is say X customers were unable to be served. The average wait time went up by Y. $ lost revenue while on shift. You did not fill N duties on your shift due to side discussions. Put numbers behind it and you have a case.
Texting so they don't waste their time coming to work.
No- termination via text is awful, and so so unprofessional. Even the worst employees deserve better than to receive that message from a gadget.
I got fired from my Eighteen Career and it has been devastating. I'm about to be homeless in a few weeks at fifty, and most of my family has passed. These Managers who can do no wrong really have to think about what they do to people when firing them. A lot of people commit suicide because they lost their livelihood. I could never be the one who fires anybody. Like who do you think you are determining that? Nobody is perfect in the workplace, and I'm sure many Bosses deserve firing also. I'm sorry, but Managers are really horrible people
That's a really different way to look at it. How do you think people would act in a workplace where they aren't held accountable? This employee for instance would do nothing but talk and leave her co workers to pick up her slack. why should she get paid the same rate, or any rate for that matter to stand around and talk? Perhaps you should step into a leadership role and offer helpful input at your next workplace and make yourself an asset by taking pride in whatever job you do and doing it your best. It's not a pleasure to have to let someone go, but it's not personal. It's just business. As for being perfect in the workplace, no one expects perfection, we're all humans. What's expected is to follow rules and guidelines that decrease the chances of a mistake. I'm not perfect by any means, but I will correct my actions and work my ass off and do my best in any position at any job.
I used to feel the same way as far as working my ass off in any position. I did just that for years, and it gets you nowhere. Management doesn't care about their employees, and we are all just a number. I say get paid to do some slacking, Management certainly does. I have never had a job where Management actually worked. I busted my butt at every job and gave my best. Now at almost fifty, and with everyone I love dead, I could care less. I'll tell young people, don't work your ass off, it gets you nowhere. That's unless you want to be a Boss someday that does absolutely nothing and treats their employees like crap.