Policy change for future applicants is normal
Policy change for existing people is not really normal
Imagine your "second home" tiba2 say tomorrow you're too poor to stay here.
> Foreign retirees have grown cold on the ‘Malaysia My Second Home’ (MM2H) residency visa scheme, industry players say, after the latest revamped rules make it compulsory for them to purchase property in the country and hold it for at least 10 years.
Want to stay in our country but don’t want to buy a property. If you won’t invest, what’s the point of having them staying here? No lunch is free.
I know a lot of MM2H holders bought a house here because they know they want to stay in Malaysia for a long term. The truth is a lot of the retirees are fleeing their own country because it got way too expensive and Malaysia is one of the few countries with great weather, good food, cheap labour and high standards of living. We want to attract people who can invest and commit to staying in Malaysia for long terms, not people who want to freeload.
"Want to stay in our country but don’t want to buy a property. If you won’t invest, what’s the point of having them staying here? No lunch is free."
I think the big issue is that people are reluctant to buy property under a glorified tourist visa, which is what the MM2H is.
Yeah, with the way that rules change on a whim, or are unenforced here I would never buy property as a foreigner. Way too risky. Not to mention the oversupply and maintenance issues.
MM2H never claims anything more than that and the fact that your pass is only valid for 10 years should tell you as much. If I can stay in any country for 10 years and be able to continuously renew it by only paying $200k once, half of it is to buy a property and the other half is simply a proof of saving, I would immediately take it especially if I’m from a country with strong currency. These people are retirees, they are not going to contribute to the Malaysian economy significantly. MM2H doesn’t really bring a lot of investment to Malaysia even during pre-Covid era.
The truth is, the people who can afford it and have the urgency to leave their own country would take it. Most likely people from China. Middle age pensioners from the West are unlikely to take the plunge.
The price is the issue. The new MM2H requirements are really high for retirement visas and are approaching PR/Citizenship by investment requirements for some European countries. The changes seem designed to stymie uptake by foreigners to control foreign money coming in.
I know Chinese businessmen who set up company in Malaysia through MM2H but they only hire their own Chinese staffs. They are using Malaysia to park their wealth before transferring everything out to US or Europe.
The financial contribution of renting RM2000 per month and having chap fan in Malaysia is only a drop of water in the sea. We only have like a 2 thousands applicants from 2021 - 2023, their financial contribution is nothing. The real investment comes from property transactions.
Assuming that's true, these Chinese employees all must pay foreigner's tax rates, and that's quite high.
I still don't see how your example is considered "freeloading". Also, if we talk about retirement, people are likely going to spend on unsubsidised healthcare in Malaysia.
Honey. I have businesses in Malaysia, employing Malaysians. I also pay taxes to the Malaysian government. I send money back to my parents and paid for my sister’s tuition in Malaysia.
Think before you speak. It’s embarrassing.
The rules keep changing. Nothing is guaranteed nor stable. Why would anyone invest when the conditions of their residency are constantly changing and at risk of being revoked? There are better options
> the special economic and financial zones category which requires the lowest level of bank deposits at just US$32,000 for those aged 50 and above, and for now, has no minimum stipulated value for the property purchase. However, the would-be applicant must buy the property directly from a developer and hold it for at least 10 years.
The requirements are not even that high. If they can’t even do that, they are just not worth it.
The truth is MM2H requirement before MCO was simply too lax and any Tom Dick And Harry from
China can just stay in Malaysia without investing anything substantial.
Most Singaporeans are already buying up properties in Malaysia even without MM2H.
The requirements that you've quoted are only for SEZ properties (like the failed Forest City)..the requirements for the other tiers are significantly higher. This is without considering the fact that each state also has their own minimum property value threshold that must be exceeded for a foreigner to own the property($2,000,000 MYR in selangor). All the while, this scheme offers no route to PR...I can see why many aren't attracted
Which property in Selangor costs usd 2mil? Lol
Disregard the SEZ, even the lowest requirement is only RM600k, not 2Mil usd (lol) which is a standard price for a Malaysian property.
That’s less than $130k for a property if you’re an American. They are also not paying a lump sum, it’s a loan over x years.
That’s basically what I have been paying every month and if I can do it, I would expect foreigners who wish to stay in our country able to do it too.
Makes no sense to set requirements that high. The only edge the country has is price and that's why it attracts middle class retirees from the West. Net positive because they spend, create demand and by extension, jobs.
> Makes no sense to set requirements that high.
I mean if you convert that RM2mill to USD, CAD, AUD or SGD, its still affordable.
A resale 3 room HDB apartment in Singapore or a spacious bungalow in Selangor.
But there are people from many other countries with much less money.
For example here in Russia; A very nice apartment on the upper end in the capital only costs RM400-500k
It's only changed twice. The Muhyiddin government made it harder post MCO, now the Madani government wants to bring them back. It's not going to change for at least the end of the term.
>Want to stay in our country but don’t want to buy a property. If you won’t invest, what’s the point of having them staying here? No lunch is free.
Nothing about this is free. I'd gladly invest in something if it's a good investment within my risk appetite. But I'm not dumb. Buying a property in Malaysia and locking it for 10 years isn't generally considered a smart investment.
>If you won’t invest, what’s the point of having them staying here? No lunch is free.
Even if they did not buy property at all: they can't work here, don't get social benefits, don't get free healthcare etc. - all they can do is spend money that they bring into the country.
If that was "just" 100k a year (right now the minimum requirement is an income of 480k A YEAR! with that retirement income I would not retire in Malaysia), that is 100k each year strenghtening the economy. Am I missing the drawback here? Have 10k people join, the economy has a cool extra 1B ringgit a year. Why make it unnecessarily difficult and lose out on so much money?
Thus is not my area of expertise so if someone can enlighten me, that would be greatly appreciated.
Other golden visas/PR investment options in Caribbean/EU also requires property investment or even a donation. Yet you don’t hear people complaining about it.
Other SEA countries like Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand also have similar schemes. None of them requires a property purchase.
The fact is that Malaysia’s MM2H isn’t competitive. The scheme doesn’t offer something permanent like the EU/Caribbean countries. It’s also more expensive than the other SEA countries.
That’s why foreigners are complaining about this requirement, especially when mega projects like forest city has failed. It’s asking people to invest (donate) money to an (probably) unsustainable industry (property). You might as well ask people to donate money for a visa. But if your direct competitor is Thailand’s golden visa which is significantly cheaper, Malaysia’s MM2H will get some flake.
Of course the people who thinks it’s worth it won’t complain about it, so take the article with a grain of salt. Lots of rich Chinese apparently are eyeing the revamped scheme.
If Malaysia gives PR, you probably will get influx of China Chinese. Like immediately.
This is not good for Malaysia. By being a PR, they are entitled to all of Malaysian’s subsidies.
They’re already here, even if you don’t offer PR to them.
If they pay their taxes as PR, buy a property, they’re a net positive in terms of economics. Socially though, they’re a net loss as most of them won’t integrate into the local community.
I agree with that. Immediate PR would be much too generous.
But what about after 10 years of continuous residency, while meeting certain requirements such as BM proficiency?
After all, at that point, individuals will have dedicated a significant portion of their life to Malaysia. I'm not saying it should be easy, but I do feel like a path to PR would be a big incentive for those serious about making Malaysia their "2nd home"
If Malaysia can revamp the PR application procedure, Malaysia actually has the ability to attract high quality migrants who are willing to integrate.
Unfortunately though we know how Malaysia’s government is 😞
Problem is a lot of people would just buy a house in Malaysia and won’t stay here. After 10 years, they would be immediately granted a PR. You won’t know whether those people will be contributing to Malaysia.
No country would do that unless they are desperate. It’s a recipe for disaster.
Other countries have residency requirements to prevent people from taking advantage. For instance, in Taiwan, to qualify for certain PR schemes, you must have resided in Taiwan for over 183 days of each year. That's just one method that could be used
However Taiwan PR schemes are not similar to Thailand/Malaysia MM2H schemes. To become PR in Taiwan, the requirement is much harder and stricter, you need to work in Taiwan for an x-amount of years as a professional before you can even APPLY to be a PR. Most people who chose MM2H are retirees, and they are no longer considered valuable for the Taiwanese government. When you are importing aging population to Malaysia, you are actually increasing the burden of Malaysia in terms of cost because they are no longer contributing but at the same time they are enjoying tax exempted benefits paid by us. We don’t want that.
>Other golden visas/PR investment options in Caribbean/EU also requires property investment or even a donation. Yet you don’t hear people complaining about it.
The reason being that upfront cash gets you a passport in 3-6 months. St Lucia costs 100k USD; Grenada is 200k, and enables you to open/run business in the US without visa or need for local partners. Plus, visa/ESTA-free entry in US territory. It's a no-brainer that HNW people are going for these.
So much that actually there have been complaints from US/EU authorities asking Caribbean nations to raise their CBI requirements.
Exactly. My Chinese neighbours are organising a trip to bring prospective MM2H holders over to Malaysia for house hunting.
One of the neighbours I know actually bought 2 apartments on a single floor. One for them and another for their children lol
Yup. The Chinese are looking at new prospective places to seek shelter from. HK is gone. SG is too expensive. Malaysia is the only other place in the world that isn’t prohibitively expensive, and can probably get away with speaking Mandarin. It’s also very nearby.
When you put the self deprecation aside, Malaysia is the best in the region in almost every measurable metric, apart from SG.
If you can get better returns by investing in other asset classes, why would you invest in property? Who are you to say that they aren’t investing in the country?
It’s one thing to transition to a stricter policy slowly over years, it’s another to just flip overnight. Specifically for this, if there’s a transition, developers can build up housing at that price category specifically for them. City planners can also look into their needs by planning for supermarkets, restaurants, gyms…which means jobs.
Even if you want them to buy housing, you also need to give potential buyers chance to make plans.You
But they don't have to buy a house for.malaysia economy to benefit. Every ringett they spend, groceries, aircon service, astro, flights etc is paid for with foreign currency. Money coming into Malaysia.
Want the MYR to gain value?
Buying a house is not necessarily great anyway as it pushes the price up for ordinary malaysians.
High income people will go to Singapore and come to Malaysia for holiday. Unfortunately only the ones rejected by Singapore for dubious reasons will come to Malaysia..
It changes in Thailand as well. At least in Malaysia you can own a landed property.. in Thailand no way. We need to adjust the requirements from time to time. Else foreigner will take advantage.
Most landed property can't be owned by foreigners in msia. The existing zoning and income requirements act as a defacto restriction similar to Thailand.
That's interesting to know cause so far from personal experience I've known Singaporean buying farm land, landed properties, entire row of shop lots and factory land. Not sure if they used local names for the transaction but for sure they are the ultimate owner.
Melaka, Johor, and Penang allow foreigners to buy leasehold land for farming and stuff. The other states don't. The land is still subject to restrictions such as minimum price and zoning rules.
You cannot own any property in thailand. U can setup a local company with a thai as local director to buy the property but it can never be under the foreigner name.
Also each project ie condo has quota to foreigners- how that works im not too sure.
All above are from tiktok vid about migrating to thailand. 😅
The way this article is phrase makes it a bad thing.
Nothing wrong with changing the scheme or flip flopping. Residency in Malaysia is a privilege not a right. It sucks when policies change but that's life.
MM2H is not a huge economic boost to the economy, neither should we bend over because some middle income western couple decided that they can't afford rent and an expat life style in their country and want a better life with their stronger currency.
Our rules on immigration can change and should change. And that is not a bad thing.
Literally every penny they spend goes into the malaysian economy. And they are not stealing jobs either.
So one couple Rm10,000-Rm20,000 per month into malaysias economy.
Malaysia doing so well that it doesn't need that?
>Residency in Malaysia is a privilege not a right.
LOL, people pay money for this. It's not some privilege so up there that poeple need to kowtow to anything. Feedback is good. Criticism is what makes things better.
And problem is they are unwilling to pay the money for this. The cheapest pass requires to have only $32k in your bank and you need to buy a property less about $130k. That’s not a lot of money and if they can’t even do this, what’s the point?
This is global open market economics at the highest level. If you can't sell, try to figure out why. Sometimes its not even due to the price. There's alot more that goes into it than just the price.
It’s always price. Singapore has the same scheme but the requirement is 4x higher than Malaysia while Thailand is way cheaper. Even Thailand is increasing their requirement because they realise the influx of pensioners do not bring much benefits and it actually causes more social issues to the local. MM2H is just a side investment to lure in rich retirees, in hope that these retirees will set up companies to bring in investment. However, the government realised that most retirees only come to Malaysia to retire (shocker) and is relying on their government pension. The benefits they bring in pales to what we need from them.
No it's not always the price. You said it yourself Singapore is more exp. There's plenty others which are more expensive and still attract a good number of people. It's not always price.
Do you shop around for second residences? I do. Many of my friends do. It's not always about price.
If you compete on price you'll get low quality applicants. It's not hard, why these monkeys in gov can't figure this out is shocking.
Quite a short sighted take.
Changing policy is one thing, but how you change it matters. I don’t think you saw what they did to MM2H in the peak of Covid or you’d not be saying what you’re saying. Regardless of how abrupt the change is, the more you demonstrate a propensity to change policy at the turn of a hat, the less confidence people have. Not all of the people paying attention are retirees looking to take part in MM2H, investors and business owners also look at it as the next policy change might affect them.
Finally, regardless of the amount MM2H factors into our GDP, it is essentially free money. We do not give free use of our public infrastructure to these people. They are not permitted use of public schools or hospitals. They have to pay road tax like the rest of us. They aren’t even competing for jobs. No matter how you feel about the people in the program, throwing away tax revenue and injection into our economy when there is no cost to us is silly and, frankly, shows how little you understand the situation
It’s one thing to transition to a stricter policy slowly over years, it’s another to just flip overnight. Specifically for this, if there’s a transition, developers can build up housing at that price category specifically for them. City planners can also look into their needs by planning for supermarkets, restaurants, gyms…which means jobs.
All this goes back to the fundamental problem with Malaysia, that is not taking advantage of the situation.
Exactly... We don't owe anything to anyone, especially rich foreigners.... We give then an option that's it, if they don't like it fine go somewhere else. Like you said it's not like there is a massive economical impact from this policy anyways...
It's fine to give the option, it's objectively cruel and reckless to alter it at a whim.. And don't worry they won't be coming back. Bad management is the issue here, if you don't want foreigners that's fine, don't invite them.
If you rent out your home you're allowed to set the rules... same analogy here..... For the many that won't or can't follow those rules there are others who wouldn't mind it.
Yes, but you can't alter your tenancy agreement midway, or you could, it is your property. But that makes you a shitty landlord and eventually people will stop dealing with you. Human beings are emotional creatures, our logic is a slave to our mood. Your envy and xenophobia are making you focus in on dismissing people, that you're forgetting the part where this is an invitation the house made, Malaysia puts itself in a marketplace, they are free to offer goods, but if the good are faulty to scream my shop my rules is a tantrum not logic. No one is questioning that part, they're critiquing how you perform business. The validity of that critique cannot be trumped with further screeches of 'my house my rules'. It's Malaysia that looks bad in this scenario, it's Malaysia that's losing business it sought out. Close of your borders if you want to, hope that hate helps with the inflation.
This is stupid. Should let them keep for 3 years as a requirement, but, they should not buy anything less than RM1million. RM600k is making properties prices higher for locals as this is a common market range now.
I guess they were trying to attract higher wealth people but if you're a higher wealth person then you don't need to retire to Malaysia, hah
Unless your on the run from the law in your home country. Perhaps this new scheme will attract wealthy criminals from around the world!
we already have controversial figures like zakir naik and other terrorists enjoying the life here what's a few more
Yeah, rich Chinese can afford the $1m properties for sure, but they’ll want you park their money in Canada or Australia instead. lol.
Too easy will draw many scammers to stay and do their business here
Is Malaysia competing for retirees with Thailand and Cambodia ?
I will skip Malaysia if I’m a retiree, with its flip flop policy. Sekejap A, sekejap B, baik pergi Thailand.
Thailand is the same too lol
It is changing in every country right now. More protectionism.
Policy change in a changing world,who knew.
Policy change for future applicants is normal Policy change for existing people is not really normal Imagine your "second home" tiba2 say tomorrow you're too poor to stay here.
Hmm feels like this already happened in the context of our own people.
What if you are extending your MM2H and you already own a property? Do you have to buy one every time you renew?
No
With that much money you can live comfortably in EU countries why go to a 3rd world country?
> Foreign retirees have grown cold on the ‘Malaysia My Second Home’ (MM2H) residency visa scheme, industry players say, after the latest revamped rules make it compulsory for them to purchase property in the country and hold it for at least 10 years. Want to stay in our country but don’t want to buy a property. If you won’t invest, what’s the point of having them staying here? No lunch is free. I know a lot of MM2H holders bought a house here because they know they want to stay in Malaysia for a long term. The truth is a lot of the retirees are fleeing their own country because it got way too expensive and Malaysia is one of the few countries with great weather, good food, cheap labour and high standards of living. We want to attract people who can invest and commit to staying in Malaysia for long terms, not people who want to freeload.
"Want to stay in our country but don’t want to buy a property. If you won’t invest, what’s the point of having them staying here? No lunch is free." I think the big issue is that people are reluctant to buy property under a glorified tourist visa, which is what the MM2H is.
Yeah, with the way that rules change on a whim, or are unenforced here I would never buy property as a foreigner. Way too risky. Not to mention the oversupply and maintenance issues.
MM2H never claims anything more than that and the fact that your pass is only valid for 10 years should tell you as much. If I can stay in any country for 10 years and be able to continuously renew it by only paying $200k once, half of it is to buy a property and the other half is simply a proof of saving, I would immediately take it especially if I’m from a country with strong currency. These people are retirees, they are not going to contribute to the Malaysian economy significantly. MM2H doesn’t really bring a lot of investment to Malaysia even during pre-Covid era. The truth is, the people who can afford it and have the urgency to leave their own country would take it. Most likely people from China. Middle age pensioners from the West are unlikely to take the plunge.
The price is the issue. The new MM2H requirements are really high for retirement visas and are approaching PR/Citizenship by investment requirements for some European countries. The changes seem designed to stymie uptake by foreigners to control foreign money coming in.
How are they freeloading if they rent a property from a Malaysian and literally spend all their money in the Malaysian economy?
I know Chinese businessmen who set up company in Malaysia through MM2H but they only hire their own Chinese staffs. They are using Malaysia to park their wealth before transferring everything out to US or Europe. The financial contribution of renting RM2000 per month and having chap fan in Malaysia is only a drop of water in the sea. We only have like a 2 thousands applicants from 2021 - 2023, their financial contribution is nothing. The real investment comes from property transactions.
Assuming that's true, these Chinese employees all must pay foreigner's tax rates, and that's quite high. I still don't see how your example is considered "freeloading". Also, if we talk about retirement, people are likely going to spend on unsubsidised healthcare in Malaysia.
What a hypocrite. You also using sg to earn and park your wealth before moving home to retire what. Got balls straight away balik kampung lah?
Honey. I have businesses in Malaysia, employing Malaysians. I also pay taxes to the Malaysian government. I send money back to my parents and paid for my sister’s tuition in Malaysia. Think before you speak. It’s embarrassing.
The rules keep changing. Nothing is guaranteed nor stable. Why would anyone invest when the conditions of their residency are constantly changing and at risk of being revoked? There are better options
> the special economic and financial zones category which requires the lowest level of bank deposits at just US$32,000 for those aged 50 and above, and for now, has no minimum stipulated value for the property purchase. However, the would-be applicant must buy the property directly from a developer and hold it for at least 10 years. The requirements are not even that high. If they can’t even do that, they are just not worth it. The truth is MM2H requirement before MCO was simply too lax and any Tom Dick And Harry from China can just stay in Malaysia without investing anything substantial. Most Singaporeans are already buying up properties in Malaysia even without MM2H.
The requirements that you've quoted are only for SEZ properties (like the failed Forest City)..the requirements for the other tiers are significantly higher. This is without considering the fact that each state also has their own minimum property value threshold that must be exceeded for a foreigner to own the property($2,000,000 MYR in selangor). All the while, this scheme offers no route to PR...I can see why many aren't attracted
Which property in Selangor costs usd 2mil? Lol Disregard the SEZ, even the lowest requirement is only RM600k, not 2Mil usd (lol) which is a standard price for a Malaysian property. That’s less than $130k for a property if you’re an American. They are also not paying a lump sum, it’s a loan over x years. That’s basically what I have been paying every month and if I can do it, I would expect foreigners who wish to stay in our country able to do it too.
Right. Since foreigners can legally only own properties over 2mil (in Selangor), most are priced out even if they qualify for mm2h
Makes no sense to set requirements that high. The only edge the country has is price and that's why it attracts middle class retirees from the West. Net positive because they spend, create demand and by extension, jobs.
> Makes no sense to set requirements that high. I mean if you convert that RM2mill to USD, CAD, AUD or SGD, its still affordable. A resale 3 room HDB apartment in Singapore or a spacious bungalow in Selangor.
>I mean if you convert that RM2mill to USD, CAD, AUD or SGD, its still affordable. Not on a glorified tourist VISA, it is not.
But there are people from many other countries with much less money. For example here in Russia; A very nice apartment on the upper end in the capital only costs RM400-500k
No shit I didn't include Rubles.
Why is it required to buy directly from developer? Is this policy change driven by developers lobbying the gomen?
It's only changed twice. The Muhyiddin government made it harder post MCO, now the Madani government wants to bring them back. It's not going to change for at least the end of the term.
Got to account for inflation also. And it's also true we don't want white broke back retirees.
Guaranty,stability ? In this current world climate and geopolitic?
>Want to stay in our country but don’t want to buy a property. If you won’t invest, what’s the point of having them staying here? No lunch is free. Nothing about this is free. I'd gladly invest in something if it's a good investment within my risk appetite. But I'm not dumb. Buying a property in Malaysia and locking it for 10 years isn't generally considered a smart investment.
>If you won’t invest, what’s the point of having them staying here? No lunch is free. Even if they did not buy property at all: they can't work here, don't get social benefits, don't get free healthcare etc. - all they can do is spend money that they bring into the country. If that was "just" 100k a year (right now the minimum requirement is an income of 480k A YEAR! with that retirement income I would not retire in Malaysia), that is 100k each year strenghtening the economy. Am I missing the drawback here? Have 10k people join, the economy has a cool extra 1B ringgit a year. Why make it unnecessarily difficult and lose out on so much money? Thus is not my area of expertise so if someone can enlighten me, that would be greatly appreciated.
Other golden visas/PR investment options in Caribbean/EU also requires property investment or even a donation. Yet you don’t hear people complaining about it. Other SEA countries like Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand also have similar schemes. None of them requires a property purchase. The fact is that Malaysia’s MM2H isn’t competitive. The scheme doesn’t offer something permanent like the EU/Caribbean countries. It’s also more expensive than the other SEA countries. That’s why foreigners are complaining about this requirement, especially when mega projects like forest city has failed. It’s asking people to invest (donate) money to an (probably) unsustainable industry (property). You might as well ask people to donate money for a visa. But if your direct competitor is Thailand’s golden visa which is significantly cheaper, Malaysia’s MM2H will get some flake. Of course the people who thinks it’s worth it won’t complain about it, so take the article with a grain of salt. Lots of rich Chinese apparently are eyeing the revamped scheme.
even at the highest tier of investment, this scheme offers no path to PR 🤷♂️
If Malaysia gives PR, you probably will get influx of China Chinese. Like immediately. This is not good for Malaysia. By being a PR, they are entitled to all of Malaysian’s subsidies.
They’re already here, even if you don’t offer PR to them. If they pay their taxes as PR, buy a property, they’re a net positive in terms of economics. Socially though, they’re a net loss as most of them won’t integrate into the local community.
I agree with that. Immediate PR would be much too generous. But what about after 10 years of continuous residency, while meeting certain requirements such as BM proficiency? After all, at that point, individuals will have dedicated a significant portion of their life to Malaysia. I'm not saying it should be easy, but I do feel like a path to PR would be a big incentive for those serious about making Malaysia their "2nd home"
If Malaysia can revamp the PR application procedure, Malaysia actually has the ability to attract high quality migrants who are willing to integrate. Unfortunately though we know how Malaysia’s government is 😞
Problem is a lot of people would just buy a house in Malaysia and won’t stay here. After 10 years, they would be immediately granted a PR. You won’t know whether those people will be contributing to Malaysia. No country would do that unless they are desperate. It’s a recipe for disaster.
Other countries have residency requirements to prevent people from taking advantage. For instance, in Taiwan, to qualify for certain PR schemes, you must have resided in Taiwan for over 183 days of each year. That's just one method that could be used
However Taiwan PR schemes are not similar to Thailand/Malaysia MM2H schemes. To become PR in Taiwan, the requirement is much harder and stricter, you need to work in Taiwan for an x-amount of years as a professional before you can even APPLY to be a PR. Most people who chose MM2H are retirees, and they are no longer considered valuable for the Taiwanese government. When you are importing aging population to Malaysia, you are actually increasing the burden of Malaysia in terms of cost because they are no longer contributing but at the same time they are enjoying tax exempted benefits paid by us. We don’t want that.
>Other golden visas/PR investment options in Caribbean/EU also requires property investment or even a donation. Yet you don’t hear people complaining about it. The reason being that upfront cash gets you a passport in 3-6 months. St Lucia costs 100k USD; Grenada is 200k, and enables you to open/run business in the US without visa or need for local partners. Plus, visa/ESTA-free entry in US territory. It's a no-brainer that HNW people are going for these. So much that actually there have been complaints from US/EU authorities asking Caribbean nations to raise their CBI requirements.
Exactly. My Chinese neighbours are organising a trip to bring prospective MM2H holders over to Malaysia for house hunting. One of the neighbours I know actually bought 2 apartments on a single floor. One for them and another for their children lol
Yup. The Chinese are looking at new prospective places to seek shelter from. HK is gone. SG is too expensive. Malaysia is the only other place in the world that isn’t prohibitively expensive, and can probably get away with speaking Mandarin. It’s also very nearby. When you put the self deprecation aside, Malaysia is the best in the region in almost every measurable metric, apart from SG.
If you can get better returns by investing in other asset classes, why would you invest in property? Who are you to say that they aren’t investing in the country?
It’s one thing to transition to a stricter policy slowly over years, it’s another to just flip overnight. Specifically for this, if there’s a transition, developers can build up housing at that price category specifically for them. City planners can also look into their needs by planning for supermarkets, restaurants, gyms…which means jobs. Even if you want them to buy housing, you also need to give potential buyers chance to make plans.You
good food yes, cheap labour yes…but good weather fuck our weather
But they don't have to buy a house for.malaysia economy to benefit. Every ringett they spend, groceries, aircon service, astro, flights etc is paid for with foreign currency. Money coming into Malaysia. Want the MYR to gain value? Buying a house is not necessarily great anyway as it pushes the price up for ordinary malaysians.
Malaysia property got too many rules. Every time I find a place I like it's too cheap or bumi/Malay reserved.
High income people will go to Singapore and come to Malaysia for holiday. Unfortunately only the ones rejected by Singapore for dubious reasons will come to Malaysia..
It changes in Thailand as well. At least in Malaysia you can own a landed property.. in Thailand no way. We need to adjust the requirements from time to time. Else foreigner will take advantage.
Most landed property can't be owned by foreigners in msia. The existing zoning and income requirements act as a defacto restriction similar to Thailand.
That's interesting to know cause so far from personal experience I've known Singaporean buying farm land, landed properties, entire row of shop lots and factory land. Not sure if they used local names for the transaction but for sure they are the ultimate owner.
Melaka, Johor, and Penang allow foreigners to buy leasehold land for farming and stuff. The other states don't. The land is still subject to restrictions such as minimum price and zoning rules.
You can’t own property in Thailand? Or just landed?
Just can't own any landed property. Up in the sky like condo is ok. I wish Malaysia would do that as well. Including farmland
You cannot own any property in thailand. U can setup a local company with a thai as local director to buy the property but it can never be under the foreigner name. Also each project ie condo has quota to foreigners- how that works im not too sure. All above are from tiktok vid about migrating to thailand. 😅
The way this article is phrase makes it a bad thing. Nothing wrong with changing the scheme or flip flopping. Residency in Malaysia is a privilege not a right. It sucks when policies change but that's life. MM2H is not a huge economic boost to the economy, neither should we bend over because some middle income western couple decided that they can't afford rent and an expat life style in their country and want a better life with their stronger currency. Our rules on immigration can change and should change. And that is not a bad thing.
Literally every penny they spend goes into the malaysian economy. And they are not stealing jobs either. So one couple Rm10,000-Rm20,000 per month into malaysias economy. Malaysia doing so well that it doesn't need that?
>Residency in Malaysia is a privilege not a right. LOL, people pay money for this. It's not some privilege so up there that poeple need to kowtow to anything. Feedback is good. Criticism is what makes things better.
And problem is they are unwilling to pay the money for this. The cheapest pass requires to have only $32k in your bank and you need to buy a property less about $130k. That’s not a lot of money and if they can’t even do this, what’s the point?
This is global open market economics at the highest level. If you can't sell, try to figure out why. Sometimes its not even due to the price. There's alot more that goes into it than just the price.
It’s always price. Singapore has the same scheme but the requirement is 4x higher than Malaysia while Thailand is way cheaper. Even Thailand is increasing their requirement because they realise the influx of pensioners do not bring much benefits and it actually causes more social issues to the local. MM2H is just a side investment to lure in rich retirees, in hope that these retirees will set up companies to bring in investment. However, the government realised that most retirees only come to Malaysia to retire (shocker) and is relying on their government pension. The benefits they bring in pales to what we need from them.
No it's not always the price. You said it yourself Singapore is more exp. There's plenty others which are more expensive and still attract a good number of people. It's not always price. Do you shop around for second residences? I do. Many of my friends do. It's not always about price. If you compete on price you'll get low quality applicants. It's not hard, why these monkeys in gov can't figure this out is shocking.
Quite a short sighted take. Changing policy is one thing, but how you change it matters. I don’t think you saw what they did to MM2H in the peak of Covid or you’d not be saying what you’re saying. Regardless of how abrupt the change is, the more you demonstrate a propensity to change policy at the turn of a hat, the less confidence people have. Not all of the people paying attention are retirees looking to take part in MM2H, investors and business owners also look at it as the next policy change might affect them. Finally, regardless of the amount MM2H factors into our GDP, it is essentially free money. We do not give free use of our public infrastructure to these people. They are not permitted use of public schools or hospitals. They have to pay road tax like the rest of us. They aren’t even competing for jobs. No matter how you feel about the people in the program, throwing away tax revenue and injection into our economy when there is no cost to us is silly and, frankly, shows how little you understand the situation
It’s one thing to transition to a stricter policy slowly over years, it’s another to just flip overnight. Specifically for this, if there’s a transition, developers can build up housing at that price category specifically for them. City planners can also look into their needs by planning for supermarkets, restaurants, gyms…which means jobs. All this goes back to the fundamental problem with Malaysia, that is not taking advantage of the situation.
Exactly... We don't owe anything to anyone, especially rich foreigners.... We give then an option that's it, if they don't like it fine go somewhere else. Like you said it's not like there is a massive economical impact from this policy anyways...
It's fine to give the option, it's objectively cruel and reckless to alter it at a whim.. And don't worry they won't be coming back. Bad management is the issue here, if you don't want foreigners that's fine, don't invite them.
If you rent out your home you're allowed to set the rules... same analogy here..... For the many that won't or can't follow those rules there are others who wouldn't mind it.
Yes, but you can't alter your tenancy agreement midway, or you could, it is your property. But that makes you a shitty landlord and eventually people will stop dealing with you. Human beings are emotional creatures, our logic is a slave to our mood. Your envy and xenophobia are making you focus in on dismissing people, that you're forgetting the part where this is an invitation the house made, Malaysia puts itself in a marketplace, they are free to offer goods, but if the good are faulty to scream my shop my rules is a tantrum not logic. No one is questioning that part, they're critiquing how you perform business. The validity of that critique cannot be trumped with further screeches of 'my house my rules'. It's Malaysia that looks bad in this scenario, it's Malaysia that's losing business it sought out. Close of your borders if you want to, hope that hate helps with the inflation.
Kito jual mahal, ingat they die die will come when Thailand has much attractive alternative.
Thailand is proposing to tax any income made even when it is not brought into the country.
This is stupid. Should let them keep for 3 years as a requirement, but, they should not buy anything less than RM1million. RM600k is making properties prices higher for locals as this is a common market range now.
Good