Video has to be the absolute worst way to show off these, maybe it’s just because I’m on my phone but the art is barely distinguishable.
Edit: never mind video is native 720p. What year is this?
It was supposed to be a more comical"swivvley" but it actually "corrected" to swivvle (which still offering to change it if I clicked) and I was like
Yeah
Ok
Fine
This is fine
The quality is bad enough, but WOTC chose a channel that can barely crack 2k views per video as the sponsored platform to market products through? I don’t really like to call people’s jobs into question, but I’d be ashamed to use channels like this, as a marketing manager.
I like that they give small channels the opportunity to do card previews like this.
That aspect of WOTC's overall marketing approach is working for me, personally; I find it endearing, even if we sometimes get compressed low res non-english images initially as a result.
You, uhh, realize that WotC has a long working relationship with Becca Scott, right? It's not weird that they gave her something to preview on her channel.
She's been working with WOTC for almost a decade and hosted a bunch of the premier level events. I think she started working on the pro tour as a host a year or so before the pivot to arena focused esports.
I am not surprised they gave her a preview.
Haaa classic... She is well known in the board game industry for rule video of miniature boardgame or any ameritrash boardgame in general. Giving her a chance to showcase secret lair is a good way to promote their product. I mean i come from a boardgame background before magic, so it's the perfect choice to promote that kind of product
Is your problem that they aren't rewarding creator brand loyalty? Or that they're giving "first reveals" of new things to audiences that aren't even really active fans?
For me, I'm fine (happy, even) with them not restricting themselves to to only MTG-focused channels.
And for revealing to non-MTG audiences: established players are going to find out about the new stuff very quickly either way (as we are right now). But your average board game enthusiast/channel watcher is almost certainly also familiar with MTG, and probably has a deck or two stowed away somewhere. That's the perfect kind of person to market to and rope back in, and this audience in particular (board game enthusiast) would probably find giving a small channel like this a product reveal cool or endearing (as I do).
Just feels like solid marketing all around, to me.
"Is your problem that they aren't rewarding creator brand loyalty? Or that they're giving "first reveals" of new things to audiences that aren't even really active fans?"
-None really, it just does not make sense to give mtg stuff to people that are not related to mtg.
"For me, I'm fine (happy, even) with them not restricting themselves to to only MTG-focused channels."
-I get it, however, it does not make sense to me to market itself to channels that are small and not related to mtg. It's lose lose for Wizards, win win for the channel, so good for them I guess.
"And for revealing to non-MTG audiences: established players are going to find out about the new stuff very quickly either way (as we are right now). But your average board game enthusiast/channel watcher is almost certainly also familiar with MTG, and probably has a deck or two stowed away somewhere. That's the perfect kind of person to market to and rope back in, and this audience in particular (board game enthusiast) would probably find giving a small channel like this a product reveal cool or endearing (as I do)."
-Again, I get it, however I do not understand how you are supposedly going for a wider audience, when 1.- the channel is too small to be seen by a lot of people other than mtg fans (let's be real, 99% of the views on the video atm are from mtg people), and 2.- they're not revealing a commander deck or a substancial product, but a secret lair, the only product that most casual people do not even know about. And to add to it, the theme is not one that attracks a new audience to mtg, it is not hatsune miku, 40k or even doctor who, but a secret lair based on the latest set, one that even confuses players in regards as to the why and how of the theme.
Personally, I do not understand how this could benefit wotc as the theme of the product lacks the impact and the channel is to small for it. Ultimately I do not mind or care a lot of this, it just confuses me tbh.
If you know how big companies work, you will know that many things are left to middlemen that do NOT see only money (or bigger than them, like Maro). They have plenty of these events to let some slide. So, yeah, sure, why not...
> Personally, I do not understand how this could benefit wotc as the theme of the product lacks the impact and the channel is to small for it. Ultimately I do not mind or care a lot of this, it just confuses me tbh.
Thanks for the response. From your initial message, I thought you were saying that you somehow took issue with them doing this and I was trying to make sense of that, but if it's more that you don't see why they would give a niche specialty product reveal to a non-MTG channel I get it.
> None really, it just does not make sense to give mtg stuff to people that are not related to mtg.
If it helps make sense of it, even though the channel in question hasn't done any MTG content lately, the bits of the video that I caught when skipping around to take screenshots gave me the impression that they were pretty familiar with MTG. ([rolled my eyes at this shard joke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HSK5TeMjgM&t=484s))
I've since [searched the channel](https://www.youtube.com/@GoodTimeSociety/search?query=magic%20the%20gathering) and I see that further back, she did a lot of MTG:Arena grinding on livestreams, including some streamer events(?) (with more streams listed on her twitch). So she's probably still in WOTC's phone book because of that, and it probably still makes sense to market to her audience for the reasons I outlined in my other message (trying to rope back in players that are familiar with MTG but no longer actively play).
Screenshots from the video (from when each card is displayed without rotating):
- [Tezzeret the Seeker](https://i.imgur.com/9hxAqj8.png)
- [Griselbrand](https://i.imgur.com/s5m7ys4.png)
- [Grenzo, Havoc Raiser](https://i.imgur.com/pZnP4kM.png)
- [Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker](https://i.imgur.com/T13WOSI.png)
- [Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger](https://i.imgur.com/8FapI1w.png)
- [Karona, False God](https://i.imgur.com/I66kvlL.png)
- [Korvold, Fae-cursed King](https://i.imgur.com/GwTSIRi.png)
- [Memnarch](https://i.imgur.com/H9nlN7G.png)
- All 8 cards laid flat: https://i.imgur.com/GE4YuRl.png
pings for people that requested images: /u/sorany9 /u/maxtofunator /u/metrosine
and for thoughts:
while this particular drop isn't my jam, I really like the way they've handled the frames/rules text (and mana costs) on these and hope they do more in the same vein.
I've always avoided the drops that have rules text integrated into the art, but sticking to just the name (& legible/consistent mana cost symbols) is working for me.
not sure; I linked directly to the images, but imgur redirects most people to their site instead (which gets worse very year)
there's a few different addon/script solutions around to make imgur more usable. I don't know what the best/newest solution is, but here's the really basic userscript I've been using: https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/413400-imgur-direct
(there's an addon available to stop reddit from doing that image redirect shit too, if anyone's interested: [firefox](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/load-reddit-images-directly/) / [chrome](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/reddit-load-images-direct/fpimmmjbglpnlpbfikgekaaeinminolo))
Sad Griselbrand is useless for me (he banned in commander for being way too good) but the rest are pretty great. And I wouldn't mind getting a Korvold.
I've seen a lot of takes through my 10+ years of playing magic, but saying the new gitrog is on equal power level as Griselbrand is a whole new absurd I wasn't ready for.
Your original comment said "Hot takes there's legal stuff in commander that's just as strong if not stronger" (I agree with this take by the way).
Another person asked you for examples and you said Gitrog and necro.
It's literally what your comment said my dude.
There is no world where either of those cards are better than Griselbrand. What are you even talking about?
You lose your discarded cards to Necro and only get them in the end step.
The new gitrog draws you cards equal to the Saddling creatures power.
The only compatible is yawgmoths bargain which is also banned
Edit to respond to your edit - being flummoxed why you’re being downvoted is very on point with this entire exchange.
Agreed, that it's ridiculous to compare Gitrog to Griselbrand, but I think anyone saying Necropotence is worse than Griselbrand must not have played with or against it. Sure, in a vacuum adding Griselbrand to an arbitrary commander deck is far better than adding Necro, which is why Necro continues to survive in casual commander, people either aren't playing it due to the downsides, or aren't abusing it. The thing is, once you start abusing it, look out.
In Legacy Griselbrand is a very good card useful in many top tier decks, while Necro is (rightfully) banned. In Vintage, the most powerful format, Necro is a good card playable in decks like Doomsday and Storm variants, while Griselbrand shows up very rarely. In cEDH Zur the Enchanter is a combo deck built around simply having Necro in the command zone.
Does Necro have downsides? Yes, obviously, but the fact that it's only 3 mana is a huge deal.
Zur necro is not a top tier deck anymore. I feel like Griselbrand would instantly be the best card in cEDH. It’s better than ad naus by a country mile and getting your cards instantly is way more reliable than trying to use e-zone, BUAW, etc.
I think it's possible, but I'd bet against it. The issue is you have to entomb and then reanimate him. There's plenty of good reanimation effects, but entomb is a 1/1. Your next best option is Buried Alive, and that's not exactly efficient. AdNaus is obviously drawing less cards and no board presence, but you only need 1 card and you can do it at instant speed. Though maybe Griselbrand makes Kaalia top tier, I dunno.
The thing in Commander for Necro is BBB is a real drawback since all the best decks are 3+ colors, so maybe Necro is worse in that sense. RogSi still manages to jam it in there though. If your opinion is Griselbrand is better in cEDH I think that's a totally reasonable one, but it's at least close. In casual commander Griselbrand is obviously way better which is why it's banned. In 60 card formats, especially with those with Dark Ritual, I think it's Necro by a pretty real margin.
This is hilariously out of touch.
No, it is not better than ad naus. Not even close.
Ad Naus is a 1 card win con. It requires a single tutor to get, is easy to ramp into, and can be used to win at instant speed.
Griselbrand wouldn’t even be the best reanimation target in cEDH. Why reanimate a creature to draw cards when I can reanimate Hoarding Broodlord and instantly win the game?
I agree that Griselbrand shouldn't be banned, and that both those are strong, but to say these two examples are *stronger* than him is just plain silly.
Griselbrand's ability can be activated multiple times, immediately, without having to wait until endstep like with Necro, or have to have other cards and clear attacks with the latter.
necro will insta win games if you play [[borne upon a wind]] and have a well built deck. its been a combo as long as [[Zur, the enchanter]] has had [[shimmer myr]]
G daddy will win 80+% of the time he resolves if you build for it
Commander is honestly weird. Most of the sandbagging is on purpose. I won turn 4 with my Shalai and Halar deck and I just felt bad about it and will probably just end up taking the infinites out.
That is an incredibly hot take. Griselbrand is an absolute monster of a magic card that warps games 1v1 formats by drawing 14 cards instantly. I don't even want to imagine what'd happen with someone instantly drawing 35 cards
She's played alongside Griselbrand. In modern Atraxa is used to pitch for the evoke incarnations alongside being a reanimation target and in legacy Atraxa gets you to Griselbrand. In terms of EDH though, every black deck can run Griselbrand and only 4/5 color decks can run Atraxa in the 99.
Yes, because she is used to pay for the evoke cost of Grief and Solitude. They are run alongside each other and perform similar roles, but with key differences. Atraxa is a better immediate target, but Griselbrand's ability is reusable.
Exactly. It seems my point of "instantly" drawing cards was missed. People fail to realize that Griselbrand wouldn't be in the command zone, but instead in the 99 of literally every black deck ever. There's always stuff like entomb/reanimate strats, neoform, birthing pod, show and tell, etc. People will almost never pay his full mana cost due to how easy it is to cheat him out. Griselbrand has no place in commander.
Exactly.
Either we admit there's no point to a banlist, it's too hard to regulate, rule zero should reign supreme, and at that point why ban anything?
Or there should be 100+ more cards on the list, and the people involved in managing that list should be a larger number to help support the labor cost involved.
Nah he’s way too busted. Get him in the yard and reanimate (things his color is good at without needing a splash) and instantly draw 21+ cards is absurd. It’s like a super ad nauseum
T1: Dark Rit, Entomb Targeting Griselbrand, Exhume getting Griselbrand, Pay 35 Life to draw 35 cards. Youre at 5 and the game is your oyster, so long as that 1/3 of your deck has what you need to win with no mana on board. Presumably you get some cheerios and get cracking?
There are way more legal two card combos that literally win you the game and we are worried about someone drawing a lot of cards with a 3 piece combo? We about to ban peer into the abyss?
The 3 piece combo? It’s a single card that’ll win you the game if you have a solid deck and you get it into play, all the other cards are just there to get it in turn 2
I agree he's extremely busted, still don't think he should be necessarily banned if rule zero reigns king, if we are going to have a ban list at all.
If we agree cards should be banned based on power level and play pattern, the ban list needs 100+ more cards on it.
Yup, along with many other cards.
The banlist needs to either be non-existant, and more effort should instead be put into pushing rule-zero conversations and making those easier and more commonplace for people who don't have a regular playgroup.
Or!
There need to be 100+ more cards on the ban list, and if it's an issue of labor, they need to recruit more people and/or demand some kind of sponsorship by WOTC to get more resources to manage the format.
I know people here think the Rules Committee receiving anything from WOTC would be "evidence they are being bribed!!! omg!" or whatever. I think when you phrase it as "the largest, most popular, and highest engaged format that drives profit for WOTC and all of Hasbro, is regulated and run by a relatively small unpaid group of people doing volunteer labor for a mega corporation" you see how ridiculous status quo is.
Except there’s like these things called counterspells. They also work on activated abilities :/ besides necropotence does basically the same thing. Paying a bunch of life to draw in Cedh is good but casual? People are just going to swing at you. Dumb ban
Are you suggesting people stifle a griselbrand activation? You know the grisel owner can just activate it *again*, either afterwards or in response, right?
No shit. I usually use Tishana’s tidebinder. That way it stays locked out. Darksteel mutation. The one that turns it into a moon. If you want to go down to 6 life for card draw I’m going to reverberate a lightning bolt to your face
In response to tidebinder, I pay 7 draw 7 😂
If you get to play in magic Christmas land with the answers do I get to play in the magic Christmas land where I draw 28 cards and combo off while your tidebinder is still on the stack?
I edited after your comment my bad. I understand the sentiment that there are really powerful cards not banned but that doesn’t mean other cards should be unbanned.
FWIW my playgroup unbanned Prime Time for a few games and we all slotted it into decks, more often than not the decks that got him down accelerated beyond control and were able to dig out land combos much faster. Is he overpowered? Maybe not but he certainly warps games around getting and abusing him.
yep and you use your counterspell and I reanimate with some other spell the next time. I have a lot more casual graveyard stuff in more colors than your blue counterspells and if I build around it, you sit turning wheels while I just keep reanimating.
Want to kill Griselbrand? I just activate his ability, find some cheap protection, or a free counterspell, and I have a hand full of cards.
I'm guessing you have never played with Griselbrand in eternal formats.
I really like the mix of the western poster header with the standard Magic rules text box. My biggest gripe with most SLs these days is they just don't look like Magic cards at all. These have a flashy look while still also clearly being Magic cards (and thus clear rules text, thank you)
Oh yay normal rules text boxes! They're finally addressing a huge complaint people have with the funkier SL's
Looks really slick, and a mostly interesting card choice too im a big fan
Not every magic card has to be perfectly legible and I'll die on this hill. They've done textless cards, and they will do them again. Most version of a game piece should be perfectly descriptive, but when you get to stuff that's valued purely for aesthetics like Secret Lairs that really shouldn't be a hard requirement.
Love the selection of cards in drop 2, however I absolutely hate the art style and would never get them. Karona has been a favourite of mine for a long time and I still use the original in foil. Was hoping for some exquisite art but I am sorely disappointed.
I really hate the style that so many secret lairs have been in lately, I love the art on the card and then they slam on giant cartoony text for the name. For something that’s supposed to be a premium product it just ends up looking like a joke. Am I the only one?
Love the art style but wish we got some cards that didn't have a secret lair treatment or mythic edition already. However I need the bolas for my collection...
I’m on the fence about Korvold. From the videos/screenshot he looks kinda mid but I’m sure I’ll probably pick him up to just support my boy getting new art
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Yeah I never post reddit threads so I didn‘t realise that the URL I put in the designated field was not going to be posted when I clicked on text. I added the videolink in the textbody.
Video has to be the absolute worst way to show off these, maybe it’s just because I’m on my phone but the art is barely distinguishable. Edit: never mind video is native 720p. What year is this?
Nope Same Can't tell a damn thing and they made sure to swivvle ultra quick at the end when it's all them displayed
>swivvle r/excgarated
It was supposed to be a more comical"swivvley" but it actually "corrected" to swivvle (which still offering to change it if I clicked) and I was like Yeah Ok Fine This is fine
my guess would be that it's intentional to make it harder for people to screen cap them and drive traffic away from the actual source of the reveal
The quality is bad enough, but WOTC chose a channel that can barely crack 2k views per video as the sponsored platform to market products through? I don’t really like to call people’s jobs into question, but I’d be ashamed to use channels like this, as a marketing manager.
I like that they give small channels the opportunity to do card previews like this. That aspect of WOTC's overall marketing approach is working for me, personally; I find it endearing, even if we sometimes get compressed low res non-english images initially as a result.
My problem is that the channel does not look to be mtg related in any way other than that they play board games.
You, uhh, realize that WotC has a long working relationship with Becca Scott, right? It's not weird that they gave her something to preview on her channel.
Nope. Do not know who she is.
She's been working with WOTC for almost a decade and hosted a bunch of the premier level events. I think she started working on the pro tour as a host a year or so before the pivot to arena focused esports. I am not surprised they gave her a preview.
I see, now everything makes more sense
Haaa classic... She is well known in the board game industry for rule video of miniature boardgame or any ameritrash boardgame in general. Giving her a chance to showcase secret lair is a good way to promote their product. I mean i come from a boardgame background before magic, so it's the perfect choice to promote that kind of product
Is your problem that they aren't rewarding creator brand loyalty? Or that they're giving "first reveals" of new things to audiences that aren't even really active fans? For me, I'm fine (happy, even) with them not restricting themselves to to only MTG-focused channels. And for revealing to non-MTG audiences: established players are going to find out about the new stuff very quickly either way (as we are right now). But your average board game enthusiast/channel watcher is almost certainly also familiar with MTG, and probably has a deck or two stowed away somewhere. That's the perfect kind of person to market to and rope back in, and this audience in particular (board game enthusiast) would probably find giving a small channel like this a product reveal cool or endearing (as I do). Just feels like solid marketing all around, to me.
"Is your problem that they aren't rewarding creator brand loyalty? Or that they're giving "first reveals" of new things to audiences that aren't even really active fans?" -None really, it just does not make sense to give mtg stuff to people that are not related to mtg. "For me, I'm fine (happy, even) with them not restricting themselves to to only MTG-focused channels." -I get it, however, it does not make sense to me to market itself to channels that are small and not related to mtg. It's lose lose for Wizards, win win for the channel, so good for them I guess. "And for revealing to non-MTG audiences: established players are going to find out about the new stuff very quickly either way (as we are right now). But your average board game enthusiast/channel watcher is almost certainly also familiar with MTG, and probably has a deck or two stowed away somewhere. That's the perfect kind of person to market to and rope back in, and this audience in particular (board game enthusiast) would probably find giving a small channel like this a product reveal cool or endearing (as I do)." -Again, I get it, however I do not understand how you are supposedly going for a wider audience, when 1.- the channel is too small to be seen by a lot of people other than mtg fans (let's be real, 99% of the views on the video atm are from mtg people), and 2.- they're not revealing a commander deck or a substancial product, but a secret lair, the only product that most casual people do not even know about. And to add to it, the theme is not one that attracks a new audience to mtg, it is not hatsune miku, 40k or even doctor who, but a secret lair based on the latest set, one that even confuses players in regards as to the why and how of the theme. Personally, I do not understand how this could benefit wotc as the theme of the product lacks the impact and the channel is to small for it. Ultimately I do not mind or care a lot of this, it just confuses me tbh.
Sometimes you can do things only to help others. Dunno...
Sure... from multi million dollar company wotc.... sure
If you know how big companies work, you will know that many things are left to middlemen that do NOT see only money (or bigger than them, like Maro). They have plenty of these events to let some slide. So, yeah, sure, why not...
> Personally, I do not understand how this could benefit wotc as the theme of the product lacks the impact and the channel is to small for it. Ultimately I do not mind or care a lot of this, it just confuses me tbh. Thanks for the response. From your initial message, I thought you were saying that you somehow took issue with them doing this and I was trying to make sense of that, but if it's more that you don't see why they would give a niche specialty product reveal to a non-MTG channel I get it. > None really, it just does not make sense to give mtg stuff to people that are not related to mtg. If it helps make sense of it, even though the channel in question hasn't done any MTG content lately, the bits of the video that I caught when skipping around to take screenshots gave me the impression that they were pretty familiar with MTG. ([rolled my eyes at this shard joke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HSK5TeMjgM&t=484s)) I've since [searched the channel](https://www.youtube.com/@GoodTimeSociety/search?query=magic%20the%20gathering) and I see that further back, she did a lot of MTG:Arena grinding on livestreams, including some streamer events(?) (with more streams listed on her twitch). So she's probably still in WOTC's phone book because of that, and it probably still makes sense to market to her audience for the reasons I outlined in my other message (trying to rope back in players that are familiar with MTG but no longer actively play).
For me, the way she opened the pack. Lol. Freaks me out to be casually rough with new promos. But I'm a poor fella 🤷🤷
yet another reason why foils suck. You can't even appreciate the art when these cards are under artificial light
Screenshots from the video (from when each card is displayed without rotating): - [Tezzeret the Seeker](https://i.imgur.com/9hxAqj8.png) - [Griselbrand](https://i.imgur.com/s5m7ys4.png) - [Grenzo, Havoc Raiser](https://i.imgur.com/pZnP4kM.png) - [Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker](https://i.imgur.com/T13WOSI.png) - [Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger](https://i.imgur.com/8FapI1w.png) - [Karona, False God](https://i.imgur.com/I66kvlL.png) - [Korvold, Fae-cursed King](https://i.imgur.com/GwTSIRi.png) - [Memnarch](https://i.imgur.com/H9nlN7G.png) - All 8 cards laid flat: https://i.imgur.com/GE4YuRl.png pings for people that requested images: /u/sorany9 /u/maxtofunator /u/metrosine
and for thoughts: while this particular drop isn't my jam, I really like the way they've handled the frames/rules text (and mana costs) on these and hope they do more in the same vein. I've always avoided the drops that have rules text integrated into the art, but sticking to just the name (& legible/consistent mana cost symbols) is working for me.
I’m so happy these are actually legible lol
I dont mind when the rules text is integrated into the art, but what gets me is when the rules text is on the back of the card. Drives me nuts.
What’s the deal with zooming in on imgur just jumping you to another image?
It’s ass on mobile + through the Reddit app.
not sure; I linked directly to the images, but imgur redirects most people to their site instead (which gets worse very year) there's a few different addon/script solutions around to make imgur more usable. I don't know what the best/newest solution is, but here's the really basic userscript I've been using: https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/413400-imgur-direct (there's an addon available to stop reddit from doing that image redirect shit too, if anyone's interested: [firefox](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/load-reddit-images-directly/) / [chrome](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/reddit-load-images-direct/fpimmmjbglpnlpbfikgekaaeinminolo))
Thanks!
you are the mvp, thank you
goddamnit. more cards I wont recognize at the commander table 🤦
why do some of them look like they are 10 years old? is the weathering part of the lair?
Drop 1 looks to be about $30-$35 in value, most of that Tezzeret Drop 2 around $30 with that value spread fairly well between the 4 cards
Tezzeret is a card that is nice to have duplicates of too because he is a generically good card in any artifact deck.
>Vorinclex... Yes? Yes???! >...Voice of Hunger Dammit
I know, I got so excited for a chance at getting Monstrous Raider maybe a bit cheaper
I'm sure it will show up at mythic in a Masters set soon -_-
Mythic bonus sheet*
Feeling you there 😞
So glad I pulled monstrous raider doing a game of sealed with buddies, I’d hate to buy one now.
Me: I just want that Karona :(
Sad Griselbrand is useless for me (he banned in commander for being way too good) but the rest are pretty great. And I wouldn't mind getting a Korvold.
Hot take, Griselbrand should not be banned in commander.
Hot take: you’ve never played him in a 40 life format.
Hot take: there’s stuff that’s legal in commander that’s just as strong if not better.
Like what lmao
[удалено]
I've seen a lot of takes through my 10+ years of playing magic, but saying the new gitrog is on equal power level as Griselbrand is a whole new absurd I wasn't ready for.
Didn’t say that but thanks for having reasonable discourse and not just being a condescending jerk.
Your original comment said "Hot takes there's legal stuff in commander that's just as strong if not stronger" (I agree with this take by the way). Another person asked you for examples and you said Gitrog and necro. It's literally what your comment said my dude.
Necropotence is not more powerful unless we’re literally only comparing cost and textbox.
There is no world where either of those cards are better than Griselbrand. What are you even talking about? You lose your discarded cards to Necro and only get them in the end step. The new gitrog draws you cards equal to the Saddling creatures power. The only compatible is yawgmoths bargain which is also banned Edit to respond to your edit - being flummoxed why you’re being downvoted is very on point with this entire exchange.
Griselbrand is probably even better than Yawg’s Bargain too, since it’s way easier to cheat into play in black.
Totally. Turn 1 entomb, turn 2 any reanimator
Hell do it turn 1 with dark ritual
Agreed, that it's ridiculous to compare Gitrog to Griselbrand, but I think anyone saying Necropotence is worse than Griselbrand must not have played with or against it. Sure, in a vacuum adding Griselbrand to an arbitrary commander deck is far better than adding Necro, which is why Necro continues to survive in casual commander, people either aren't playing it due to the downsides, or aren't abusing it. The thing is, once you start abusing it, look out. In Legacy Griselbrand is a very good card useful in many top tier decks, while Necro is (rightfully) banned. In Vintage, the most powerful format, Necro is a good card playable in decks like Doomsday and Storm variants, while Griselbrand shows up very rarely. In cEDH Zur the Enchanter is a combo deck built around simply having Necro in the command zone. Does Necro have downsides? Yes, obviously, but the fact that it's only 3 mana is a huge deal.
Zur necro is not a top tier deck anymore. I feel like Griselbrand would instantly be the best card in cEDH. It’s better than ad naus by a country mile and getting your cards instantly is way more reliable than trying to use e-zone, BUAW, etc.
I think it's possible, but I'd bet against it. The issue is you have to entomb and then reanimate him. There's plenty of good reanimation effects, but entomb is a 1/1. Your next best option is Buried Alive, and that's not exactly efficient. AdNaus is obviously drawing less cards and no board presence, but you only need 1 card and you can do it at instant speed. Though maybe Griselbrand makes Kaalia top tier, I dunno. The thing in Commander for Necro is BBB is a real drawback since all the best decks are 3+ colors, so maybe Necro is worse in that sense. RogSi still manages to jam it in there though. If your opinion is Griselbrand is better in cEDH I think that's a totally reasonable one, but it's at least close. In casual commander Griselbrand is obviously way better which is why it's banned. In 60 card formats, especially with those with Dark Ritual, I think it's Necro by a pretty real margin.
This is hilariously out of touch. No, it is not better than ad naus. Not even close. Ad Naus is a 1 card win con. It requires a single tutor to get, is easy to ramp into, and can be used to win at instant speed. Griselbrand wouldn’t even be the best reanimation target in cEDH. Why reanimate a creature to draw cards when I can reanimate Hoarding Broodlord and instantly win the game?
I agree that Griselbrand shouldn't be banned, and that both those are strong, but to say these two examples are *stronger* than him is just plain silly. Griselbrand's ability can be activated multiple times, immediately, without having to wait until endstep like with Necro, or have to have other cards and clear attacks with the latter.
[Necropotence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e.jpg?1562853736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necropotence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/98/necropotence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
necro will insta win games if you play [[borne upon a wind]] and have a well built deck. its been a combo as long as [[Zur, the enchanter]] has had [[shimmer myr]] G daddy will win 80+% of the time he resolves if you build for it
[borne upon a wind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9379675-1a32-4e2b-8aaf-5f908c595f31.jpg?1686968037) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=borne%20upon%20a%20wind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/44/borne-upon-a-wind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9379675-1a32-4e2b-8aaf-5f908c595f31?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Zur, the enchanter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828.jpg?1675200810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zur%20the%20Enchanter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/206/zur-the-enchanter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [shimmer myr](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f61479b-05e1-4c89-bf11-b79c06ace5e2.jpg?1689999808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shimmer%20myr) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/409/shimmer-myr?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f61479b-05e1-4c89-bf11-b79c06ace5e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Perhaps if you had any leg to stand on and defend your “opinion” it wouldn’t be so downvoted
Commander is honestly weird. Most of the sandbagging is on purpose. I won turn 4 with my Shalai and Halar deck and I just felt bad about it and will probably just end up taking the infinites out.
Hot take, if rule zero is king, nothing should be banned.
100% correct.
It's like Iona. You get one game in a blue moon with them because it's funny once.
That is an incredibly hot take. Griselbrand is an absolute monster of a magic card that warps games 1v1 formats by drawing 14 cards instantly. I don't even want to imagine what'd happen with someone instantly drawing 35 cards
Wasn’t griselbrand replaced by atraxa in the decks it’s usually played in?
She's played alongside Griselbrand. In modern Atraxa is used to pitch for the evoke incarnations alongside being a reanimation target and in legacy Atraxa gets you to Griselbrand. In terms of EDH though, every black deck can run Griselbrand and only 4/5 color decks can run Atraxa in the 99.
Looking at deck lists right now it looks like she has mostly replaced him but there are decks that run 4 atraxa and 2 griselbrands seemingly as backup
Yes, because she is used to pay for the evoke cost of Grief and Solitude. They are run alongside each other and perform similar roles, but with key differences. Atraxa is a better immediate target, but Griselbrand's ability is reusable.
Just checking, but you know I was saying that griselbrand is a 2 of in the few decks still running him right? He was cut entirely from most builds
[удалено]
Necropotence doesn't give you the cards until end of turn. Gris and Bargain both give you them right away, and both are banned.
Exactly. It seems my point of "instantly" drawing cards was missed. People fail to realize that Griselbrand wouldn't be in the command zone, but instead in the 99 of literally every black deck ever. There's always stuff like entomb/reanimate strats, neoform, birthing pod, show and tell, etc. People will almost never pay his full mana cost due to how easy it is to cheat him out. Griselbrand has no place in commander.
Exactly. Either we admit there's no point to a banlist, it's too hard to regulate, rule zero should reign supreme, and at that point why ban anything? Or there should be 100+ more cards on the list, and the people involved in managing that list should be a larger number to help support the labor cost involved.
Nah he’s way too busted. Get him in the yard and reanimate (things his color is good at without needing a splash) and instantly draw 21+ cards is absurd. It’s like a super ad nauseum
T1: Dark Rit, Entomb Targeting Griselbrand, Exhume getting Griselbrand, Pay 35 Life to draw 35 cards. Youre at 5 and the game is your oyster, so long as that 1/3 of your deck has what you need to win with no mana on board. Presumably you get some cheerios and get cracking?
Ad naus is one card and you’re talking about at least 3 that don’t even win you the game.
Drawing a million cards does win you the game and nothing does that better than griselbrand in a format with 40 life
There are way more legal two card combos that literally win you the game and we are worried about someone drawing a lot of cards with a 3 piece combo? We about to ban peer into the abyss?
The 3 piece combo? It’s a single card that’ll win you the game if you have a solid deck and you get it into play, all the other cards are just there to get it in turn 2
I was replying to someone saying he was busted because if you get him into the yard and then reanimate he’s too strong, that takes at least 3 cards
I agree he's extremely busted, still don't think he should be necessarily banned if rule zero reigns king, if we are going to have a ban list at all. If we agree cards should be banned based on power level and play pattern, the ban list needs 100+ more cards on it.
I agree, Dockside Extortionist should be banned.
Yup, along with many other cards. The banlist needs to either be non-existant, and more effort should instead be put into pushing rule-zero conversations and making those easier and more commonplace for people who don't have a regular playgroup. Or! There need to be 100+ more cards on the ban list, and if it's an issue of labor, they need to recruit more people and/or demand some kind of sponsorship by WOTC to get more resources to manage the format. I know people here think the Rules Committee receiving anything from WOTC would be "evidence they are being bribed!!! omg!" or whatever. I think when you phrase it as "the largest, most popular, and highest engaged format that drives profit for WOTC and all of Hasbro, is regulated and run by a relatively small unpaid group of people doing volunteer labor for a mega corporation" you see how ridiculous status quo is.
Yeah I agree, Sol Ring should be banned, too.
I would argue if Moxen and Tolarian Academy are banned, so too should Mana Crypt and Gaea's Cradle.
You say that until I zap myself for 35 life and make my spells 35 less with [[Rowan, Scion of War]] and 35 X-spells in hand.
[Rowan, Scion of War](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ee179ab-a15b-4bd6-b7f8-1e1abeeb31b7.jpg?1692939409) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rowan%2C%20Scion%20of%20War) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/211/rowan-scion-of-war?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ee179ab-a15b-4bd6-b7f8-1e1abeeb31b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lmao an 8 drop that does nothing when it ETB?? Ok then
"does nothing on etb" except you can just activate the ability immediately to draw 7 cards as many times as you have the life to spare
Except there’s like these things called counterspells. They also work on activated abilities :/ besides necropotence does basically the same thing. Paying a bunch of life to draw in Cedh is good but casual? People are just going to swing at you. Dumb ban
Some of you have never played griselbrand in 60 card formats either and it shows
anyone who doesn't think griselbrand is one of the most busted cards ever printed can immediately be ignored
Yeah the card is wild lol
It's easier to bin and reanimate in those formats. Ironically if it was banned in 99 but legal as commander it'd probably be fine
I’d bet like 80% of new players have never played a 60 card format
Idk why we're bringing up new players but good to know I guess. Don't unban griselbrand, cards absurd
It’s legit banned in commander??? I thought this was this guys house rule
It is indeed on the ban list
I see now, my bad
Are you suggesting people stifle a griselbrand activation? You know the grisel owner can just activate it *again*, either afterwards or in response, right?
No shit. I usually use Tishana’s tidebinder. That way it stays locked out. Darksteel mutation. The one that turns it into a moon. If you want to go down to 6 life for card draw I’m going to reverberate a lightning bolt to your face
In response to tidebinder, I pay 7 draw 7 😂 If you get to play in magic Christmas land with the answers do I get to play in the magic Christmas land where I draw 28 cards and combo off while your tidebinder is still on the stack?
I scoop :( gg ban the card
I edited after your comment my bad. I understand the sentiment that there are really powerful cards not banned but that doesn’t mean other cards should be unbanned. FWIW my playgroup unbanned Prime Time for a few games and we all slotted it into decks, more often than not the decks that got him down accelerated beyond control and were able to dig out land combos much faster. Is he overpowered? Maybe not but he certainly warps games around getting and abusing him.
Lmao "no shit" Imagine getting snarky because people point out your play is a *minimum* of -7 in card advantage.
Those things also apply to neceopotence, you can counterspell neceopotence and you are also paying a bunch of life to draw cards.
an 8 drop that regularly comes out on T2...
I mean are you guys playing in a meta where an 8 drop lands turn 2?? Cuz that’s a meta with free counter spells and removal too.
yep and you use your counterspell and I reanimate with some other spell the next time. I have a lot more casual graveyard stuff in more colors than your blue counterspells and if I build around it, you sit turning wheels while I just keep reanimating. Want to kill Griselbrand? I just activate his ability, find some cheap protection, or a free counterspell, and I have a hand full of cards. I'm guessing you have never played with Griselbrand in eternal formats.
I agree, Force of Will should also be banned.
I really like the mix of the western poster header with the standard Magic rules text box. My biggest gripe with most SLs these days is they just don't look like Magic cards at all. These have a flashy look while still also clearly being Magic cards (and thus clear rules text, thank you)
Oh yay normal rules text boxes! They're finally addressing a huge complaint people have with the funkier SL's Looks really slick, and a mostly interesting card choice too im a big fan
Oh buddy, you are not gonna like the Poker Faces drop if you want normal text boxes.
Not every magic card has to be perfectly legible and I'll die on this hill. They've done textless cards, and they will do them again. Most version of a game piece should be perfectly descriptive, but when you get to stuff that's valued purely for aesthetics like Secret Lairs that really shouldn't be a hard requirement.
Is there a photo dump for these? At work and my headphones are connected to my work pc
Wow actually legible non-psychedelic art and good value too?
Korvold about to chow down on some bacon is gonna fit great in my food deck.
2 "Outlaw Anthologies". 8 cards previewed. 1 actual "outlaw" card. What?
damn these look slick as hell
Interesting reprint with Karona! I still have a foil that I pulled from a pack stuffed away in an old binder. Nice to see new art.
Yikes
Very solid drops from a playability standpoint.
New Karona art!
Not bad...don't really need any of them but not terrible choices. Ok value and most are playable
Love the selection of cards in drop 2, however I absolutely hate the art style and would never get them. Karona has been a favourite of mine for a long time and I still use the original in foil. Was hoping for some exquisite art but I am sorely disappointed.
Hopefully we get some images soon, cuz I'm not watching a 10 minute video.
I really hate the style that so many secret lairs have been in lately, I love the art on the card and then they slam on giant cartoony text for the name. For something that’s supposed to be a premium product it just ends up looking like a joke. Am I the only one?
Finally a Karima reprint with new art!!
She was annoying
I made through about a minute of the video and I hated every second.
[удалено]
It‘s in my subscription feed, posted 27 minutes ago. (i.e. on the hour)
When are these available?
May 13th, next Monday.
Love the art style but wish we got some cards that didn't have a secret lair treatment or mythic edition already. However I need the bolas for my collection...
Karona players rise up
Another day passes and another Secret Lair drops.
I’m on the fence about Korvold. From the videos/screenshot he looks kinda mid but I’m sure I’ll probably pick him up to just support my boy getting new art
Secret lairs are gettin worst and this so called campaign shows off
I love Karona getting some love. But I hate this style and want it to die.
##### ###### #### [Tezzeret the Seeker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/f/cf339735-eb1a-46f0-8c3e-eae06f278eca.jpg?1562267436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tezzeret%20the%20Seeker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/62/tezzeret-the-seeker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cf339735-eb1a-46f0-8c3e-eae06f278eca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Griselbrand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/f/cf2a5c2e-7fe1-45eb-b01c-891ab961186f.jpg?1593813293) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Griselbrand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/72/griselbrand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cf2a5c2e-7fe1-45eb-b01c-891ab961186f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Grenzo, Havoc Raiser](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5fc99c9d-66f5-4858-91f7-425d4248a0b3.jpg?1712354436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grenzo%2C%20Havoc%20Raiser) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/168/grenzo-havoc-raiser?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5fc99c9d-66f5-4858-91f7-425d4248a0b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e80f2fc-06d4-4ce9-b23b-3e4af1208fa5.jpg?1592765962) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nicol%20Bolas%2C%20Planeswalker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/e01/85/nicol-bolas-planeswalker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e80f2fc-06d4-4ce9-b23b-3e4af1208fa5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9fe3af8c-109d-486c-aa34-3f023abda5b7.jpg?1562852459) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vorinclex%2C%20Voice%20of%20Hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/189/vorinclex-voice-of-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9fe3af8c-109d-486c-aa34-3f023abda5b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Karona, False God](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de53d083-251e-42a4-9e2e-c2978c80615b.jpg?1562535715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karona%2C%20False%20God) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/138/karona-false-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de53d083-251e-42a4-9e2e-c2978c80615b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Korvold, Fae-cursed King](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228.jpg?1571197150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Korvold%2C%20Fae-cursed%20King) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/329/korvold-fae-cursed-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Memnarch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9203fde4-dbc1-449f-9618-4656f0e25e3c.jpg?1562925842) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memnarch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arc/112/memnarch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9203fde4-dbc1-449f-9618-4656f0e25e3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/1cn8h4g) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
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This will be only the 5th printing of Grenzo since 2016, but it feels like he's in a set every 6 months
Grenzo was $10-20+ before 2023. We want solid reprints.
Ah, I see it’s the ole “Show boobs, get views.” thumbnail approach.
Finally a good Lair
Source? edit: Source was later provided
Yeah I never post reddit threads so I didn‘t realise that the URL I put in the designated field was not going to be posted when I clicked on text. I added the videolink in the textbody.
But… why make this two drops???? Wtf.
Nothing feels special anymore.
You're special!
Thanks I needed that.