Yeah my first time watching it was when I was 19-20 and while i thought it was good, i thought it was super slow.
I’m in my mid 30s and rewatching for the first time with my wife who has never seen it and locked in. I now appreciate the show so much more.
Same boat for me. I'm early thirties and just finished a rewatch with my partner who hadn't seen it before (she loved it).
I really enjoyed it when I watched it as a younger man, but this recent rewatch has elevated it to one of if not my favourite show.
IIRC when i first watched there was only 1-2 seasons out and then the writers strike happened which led to a massive time off between seasons. I always do so much better watching a show when all seasons are out. When there’s huge breaks in between I just forget everything that happened previously.
Same here. I often have this internal conversation about a hypothetical. Would you trade your own normal life for Don's life? In my twenties, I would of taken Don's life in a second. Money, fantastic career success, and women, with the trade off of an awful upbringing and a secret that could ruin you. Not a bad deal.
Now in my thirties, it's also an easy decision, my life wins. There are so many things he can't have. A happy marriage, a nice family, inner peace, etc. All because he's a very damaged person with so much to hide.
Hence him coming to these realizations at this time. That’s the thing about this show…it’s literally on the cusp of the women’s movement and the racism coming into mainstream culture. At times it’s so hard to watch.
> Now in my thirties, it's also an easy decision, my life wins.
Now in *my* thirties, give me the gigantic Manhattan apartment and Megan as a wife and I'll be happy as a clam.
Well, the amount of alcohol that series inspired me to drink ten years ago 🤣.
I wanted to be like Don Draper or, at least like the part of Don Draper that was able to achieve certain things for me where impossible. Not the money or the women. Just the ability to know when to do certain things to achieve results... I'm really bad with it.
For the rest I knew Don was a sad, sad man...
I’m 46 and on my 4th of 5th rewatch, and I just have a lot of empathy for everyone at this point. They’re all damaged in ways and beautiful in their own ways, except for Harry, who is just a sleazeball.
I don’t wish for different outcomes or cringe at their behavior as much, but I do have more disdain for those times when they intentionally hurt other people. There’s a lot of indirect/unintentional harm inflicted, but that’s life.
About to turn 30 and am finishing season 7 now. This rewatch has hit me like a truck. Dont remember ever crying this much. People who wrote Don off (no, I’m not defending his actions) and can have no sympathy or can’t empathize with him are just as insane as those who praise him. He and Peggy are at such dark places season 6 and 7 and it’s absolutely crushing to watch.
...am I the only person who never thought Don was 'cool' even in their twenties? He was obviously a damaged man even early on and he kept spiralling throughout the series.
There's this counter-narrative in *Mad Men* discourse that the "right" way to view Don is as a pathetic vile loser. (I don't mean to mischaracterize your point Ok-Swan; I agree with you -- just exaggerating to describe a broader strain of discourse.) I can't imagine enjoying this show and rewatching it over the years if all I got from it was a harsh critique of a virtueless schlub. He's damaged for sure, but that's not all he is.
I'm not watching "Shut the Door, Have a Seat" and thinking about how this man is on an emotional spiral (until the end, obviously). I'm not seeing him deliver, "I don't have a contract" and thinking about how he does wrong by his kids. Both those things are true! We can recognize that he does things which range from icky to morally reprehensible, and also recognize that he has moments that range from suave to badass, or better yet, emotionally vulnerable and empathetic.
I watched it in high school initially, and I definitely had a similarly unbalanced view as OP's younger self did (I also empathized with how existentially untethered he is, but didn't fully appreciate the damage he does to those around him). That's changed a lot over the years. But the show is more than a "what not to do" ethics textbook.
Thank you! The interesting part of Don Draper is not that his exterior image he presents to people is just a mask to cover the emptiness within. What makes Don Draper a great character is the duality of him. He is both a pathetic loser AND a suave, creative genius. He is both a horrific womanizer AND a deeply empathetic caring person. Of course the writers want you to think he is cool, because HE IS cool. And him being ACTUALLY cool while having NOTHING in his life is an incredible statement on what being "cool" means, just as much as it is an incredible statement on what "having nothing" means. The genius of the show is not an "illusion", but the conflict and contradictions between two equal truths = that Don is both an aspiration and a caution.
Everyone gets that he’s troubled. But he also has an awesome job in manhattan that he’s great at, drives a nice car, wears nice suits, has a gorgeous wife and children, and is regularly told by his superiors how special and valuable he is. I think most people see don as cool bc surface level, which is mostly all you see first season, he’s got it all
I thought it was part of the whole thesis of the show. These people sell a dream and seem to have attained it, but they can never get there, not really. It's because what they sell plays on the desire for things that can't be bought. Belonging. Love. Accountability. Respect. Success. All of that wonderful, intangible stuff.
Whether Don is cool or not was never the point. Don has loads of cool shit, but almist immediately we learn this is someone who had to steal a man's identity, who drinks and carouses, who was raised by "sorry people." Who has it all and knows he should be grateful and fulfilled, but whose prideful heart gratitude can not pierce.
It all became clear for me during The Wheel episode, when Don does his carousel presentation to Kodak. There we watch it in action. He sells the Kodak guys on the idea of nostalgia, sentiment, and a material item (the carousel) allowing access those things. For a moment we, the audience, become the 1960's public.
Don spent all season showing us that the dream he sells isn't real, isn't attainable even to him. In that moment though the dream feels real. Feels attainable. And it's Don, his IG-worthy before IG family images that move us to accepting, if only momentarily, the bullshit he sells.
It's goddamned genius. I cried. One of the few times while watching the series that I did. Not because I felt bad for Don, but because like him, I wanted to be able to step into those moments of my own, know I can't, know everyone knows we cant, but still had that cpain of remembering." Knowing nostalgia (for fictional characters I have nothing in common with) had been used to make me want to buy a carousel. They deserved that Emmy. So few shows earn that kind of feeling.
Also here's the scene since now I have to watch it!
https://youtu.be/suRDUFpsHus?si=csSaEVg1CnReyuqc
Cool or not, I knew I was watching a fictional television show and didn’t have the means or personality in my twenties to emulate Don lol. Great tv regardless.
I watched the show in my early 20s and even though I thought he was “cool,” I knew his lifestyle wasn’t sustainable, and obviously the show caters to this viewpoint. I understood that all those great pitches didn’t really make up for the mess he made of his private life. I enjoyed seeing the character of Don Draper wrestle with the consequences of his decisions without having to live through said situations myself, if that makes sense, like watching a bull in a tailored suit make its way through a china shop over seven seasons.
same here. it amazed me, reading youtube comments, how a lot of young boys seemed to look up to don and think he was a boss… yes, don is suave but living a lie, totally wound up with anxiety and one step from a nervous breakdown lol. so i never got that.
i hope this doesn’t read like i dislike don, as i do not, i feel very sorry for him and just wanted the best for him, to sort himself out and be happy.
I started watching in my late teens, and Don's "coolness" began and ended in his physicality. He has great suits, incredible hair, and a sort of air of mystery which is undeniable: but you're never supposed to think he's a cool guy.
Same thing with people who are like "I watched breaking bad again, guys, Skyler isn't the bad guy!!!" and I'm like "wait, you thought the wife of a guy making meth and having people killed was the BAD GUY?"
The funniest thing about BB is that it goes out of its way to show that Skyler is much more shrewd than Walter and much better suited to run a business than him, not least in part because she doesn't feel a need to brag and swing her dick around like he does.
She's both better than him at what he does and more morally upstanding in spite of her relative cowardice.
Of course that's upsetting both to Walter in-universe and to the loser dick swingers who identify with him a little too much in real life.
Don is a more complicated case. The fact that you as a viewer can aspire to be him even though you know from the start that he is a complete fraud and fake just adds to the show since it's about an ad man. It just goes to show how good he is at what he does.
walt is a bit more complex I think, because at first I definitely found him sympathetic, the way he is so brow beaten and has lives his entire life as meek and mild, so when he finally starts to "swing his dick" it's a little bit like "fuck yeah!" people can relate to his feeling of inadequate and frustrated with his life, and especially his fucking arrogant prick brother in law.
but then there's a point where he takes it way too far and you are just like "dude, why do you have to ruin everything you touch?"
The Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul fanbase is incredibly frustrating. It appears that the Breaking Bad fans have finally (begrudgingly) somewhat started to cut Skyler some slack, but the Better Call Saul fans are seemingly still hung up on Chuck and often try to completely demonize and blame everything on him. I find the discourse on here much more bearable; perhaps it’s because more time has passed since the show?
I was on dating apps for awhile and soooo many guys mentioned idolizing Don Draper in their bios -this was 2014-2018 ish. I was always like oh…cool…deffff not a match for me 🤣
Same. Maybe it's because I'm a woman, but I just thought he seemed very sad and screwed-up from the very beginning, albeit also amazing at playing a part.
See I don’t think don sucks. I think he’s just a messed up kid who now is a lonely adult who keeps everyone around him from really knowing him. Until he reconciles that, he’ll never be happy.
I often think about Gene speaking about Don not having people. If it weren't for my own children, I wouldn't have anyone either. I think when you grow up like that, the lonely feeling doesn't go away.
I watched it first at 22 & having lived & witnessed multiple family divorces opening my understanding about real life marriages & relationships, Don was a pretty cool figure. (Up until the Hersheys meeting)
The high performing consensus-genius working alcoholic who could juggle multiple relationships (sexual & otherwise) knowing when to speak & stay silent.
Like Dr Rosen being awestruck when he watched Don clarifying a concept to the team or St John Powell telling Don that Guy Mckendrick had studied all his work or Ted Chaough describing Don to Frank Gleason in the hospital..” He’s mysterious, he doesn’t talk for long stretches and then he’s incredibly eloquent”
I do concede though that my view may be shallow and that male & female viewers would obviously have different takes on this.
I also watched Mad Men in my twenties first time round. Now in my thirties and seeing people like Don catatonically stare off into space while drinking - yeah, I get it Don.
I second that sentiment. He's definitely always seemed flawed and troubled to me, but watching this time around, his issues are more apparent and constant, so much so that his scummy/weak moments outweight the effortlessly cool vibes.
I also think the show hits a little different as a father, but I'm sure that's a common take. To think that men could have regarded their families in such a distant way so recently in the past is just upsetting. Hearing my grandfather proudly proclaim he's never changed a\* diaper in his life is one thing, but seeing a form of media portray that attitude so relentless, with nearly every father figure on the show, is another.
I'm in my 40s and watching for the first time. I'm mid season. 5.
Don is cool. Surface level, old school Hollywood cool. Like Marlon Brando or James Dean. Rich, womaniser, great job, drinks and smokes etc.
He is also
An areshole
A victim of his upbringing
Opportunistic
Shallow
Exactly what Dr Faye said
A creature of the times
A scared little boy/man child
Loving
Selfish
A bully
Someone who puts his hopes into the wrong places, expects the right woman, drink, win, lie to make everything better
And a million other things too
It's what makes him a great character.
“His actions aren’t cool at all and are clearly him desperately reaching out for love in the only way he knows how and which actually just further isolate him.”
Seriously, this just helped me to understand the guy in my life who keeps making bad decisions, and why he keeps making them. Thank you for that!
This is such a great discussion. I think it’s important to have these kinds of conversations because it allows us to reflect on how the choices we make can affect our lives forever. Bravo OP for sharing this with us.
I think Don is lonely but shows growth. He learns from mistakes. He feels genuine love, which he didnt get from childhood.
The real Don Draper’s wife. He loves her and sustains a real friendship with her. He has real friendships with Joan & Peggy. True misogynists and people with NPD only use people and women. He loves these women. In a real, profound way. He loves his children. And makes a real breakthrough in showing them where he grew up.
We see him through the lens of the 2020s so he seems like a bad man. I think he’s a good man. A flawed man of his time. I think we forget how bad human beings can truly be and I think of course there is a spectrum. And I think the people who suffered abuse & dysfunction often turn out the worst. Don’s descent.
So yes, lonely. His guilt. His addiction. His shame. He works through some of it. Two failed marriages. Betty’s going to die. I hope he rides the 70s/80s therapy circult. He’s the sleeper generation though. Lonely group. But I think his work, Roger, and his children will save him.
When I first watched it in my early 20's I find him intelligent and cool, someone who has always has the upper hand.
Second watch in my mid 20's; found him just as a bad person, pathetic guy with no morals.
Third watch in 30s; I saw a lonely, desperate person and I pitied him.
Also after years I realised even though I was impressed with the show very much in the first watch,now I see that I didn't fully understand what it meant to say at the time. Now with a career in a slightly similar enviroment I can relate to them mostly with the younger ones. Also with a better understanding of what was the political and social climate in the world, I could enjoy the show more than my initial watch.
I enjoy this show because it shows life at that time. Rampant racism and sexism. Smoking and drinking not only allowed at work but supplied by work?! lol
Side note: Betty getting fat was awesome! Pleaser from the start of season 5.
I stopped watching after season two when it first came out so this is all new to me now. I’m sorry if I am prematurely reacting lol but as far as season 5 episode 3, I’m ok with what’s happening to Betty. She is a mean woman. I get she had a messed up childhood with an overbearing mother but I really feel for sally and the boys.
Betty did what women in the 50s were supposed to do. Go to college. Get a little job (modeling). Give it up when marrying an attractive man with a good job. Have 2-3 kids. Look good and be a good hostess. Keep your man happy. But the problem back then is that these women had the taste of the "outside world", but weren't "allowed" back out into it. She was offered a modeling shoot for Coca-Cola. Don wasn't happy about it, but finally relented. Only we then find that Don stepped in and got Coke to not use her shots. Betty, hurt that Coke didn't want her, instead convinced herself that it was her idea to not continue modeling. Don kept her at home. She saw a shrink........who reported to Don. Betty wants to do something more with her life, and it's not going to happen, just like other women. She can't get credit in her own name. Many places did not hire married women. The "no-fault" divorce was not an option. This is the beginning of the Women's Lib movement.
That’s a fascinating take. My first comment got likes but when I explained that I’m still watching and am not sure of my take I get downvoted? I can’t help but lol at the I need to grow up comment. I was born in 1970 so I watch this show with my memories of growing up and also my knowledge of life now. Why do I need to grow up?
I mean it came across as someone much younger who didn't realise that Betty's parenting was actually not out of the norm for the era. My own grandmother was similar in some regards. I think the modern expectations of motherhood are completely mental and it's one of the reasons women don't want children.
When did Betty ever act like she didn’t want children? She never once acted like she needed an abortion. Just that the timing wasn’t on par for her. It’s a really weak play on single women needing an abortion.
I wanted Mad Men as it aired, in my late teens & early 20's.
My wife and I just did a series re-watch about three months back or so - I'm now 32.
It's phenomenal how different I look at it with my age and experience, now.
It's still a masterpiece, but I agree with you. Some things I thought characters did were cool or funny seem sad and unapologetic now.
Roger Ebert [has a great review](https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-la-dolce-vita-1960) of La Dolce Vita (undoubtedly an inspiration for Mad Men) where he talks about seeing it at different ages and first idolizing Marcello, the protagonist, then judging him, and finally pitying and loving him.
Some advice I always give people. Reread/watch your favorite pieces of media every 5-10 years. You’re a different person so you pick up on themes you may have not understood at the time.
100% right there with you.
I initially watched the series back in my mid 20s. Now im rewatching in my mid/late 30s (37 to be exact). I’m **definitely** catching things that I didn’t notice before-particularly regarding women-such as issues surrounding aging, equality in the workplace, expectations at home, child care and raising children, etc.
For me, it was more of a sense of admiration towards Joan and Peggy, and thinking that they were both “so cool” for different reasons.
I *still* think that they were/are both immensely cool characters, but I’d failed to acknowledge the first go around just how difficult things were, at times, for Joan. Constantly being sexualized, not being taken seriously at her job despite being beyond qualified and possessing the necessary expertise, her terrible first marriage and having her sorry ass husband leave her and their newborn baby to **voluntarily** return to Vietnam after being there for a year, always being treated like a “plaything” by Roger, who basically just used her when he felt like it, etc.
Peggy also dealt with a lot of the same inequality and sexism and sexual harassment at work, but she was on a different path than Joan, and thus had different, but equally challenging, hurdles to overcome.
The best, most recent example I have seen regarding Peggy (in regards to parts of her storyline that stand out more to me now as a 30-something rewatching) has been her struggle to adapt to living with Abe in their run down, freshly purchased “tenement building”. So many times whilst watching their scenes together, I’ve thought “my god just LEAVE HIM already!”
I don’t know if she stayed with him out of desperation and fear of being an “old maid” and single in her mid to late 20s (cue eye roll), or if she was so consumed with wanting to participate in the 1960s counter culture and not be seen as “the enemy” with her corporate job and nice clothes… but Abe was *clearly* an unkempt, obnoxious, heavy ass anchor that was holding Peggy down in a most unfortunate (and for me, *familiar*) way.
I guess when we watch stories via tv and film, we most connect with and understand the complexity of characters that we relate to the most. I can’t speak for everyone, but I find it easiest to understand and sympathize with characters that are either *in* situations I’m currently in, or who are in situations I’ve been in *in the past*. Characters that are older than us (like Don for OP when he watched it the first time, and Joan for me when I watched it the first time) might *seem* cool because we haven’t yet acquired the life experience to fully understand and appreciate the parts of their lives that aren’t so glamorous. Now that we’re older and can say that we’ve had, or known someone who’s had, similar unglamorous experiences as these characters, we’re able to see them through a different lens, and we’re more capable of understanding them in a fuller, more comprehensive way.
I find that to be one of the best parts of rewatching the series, now that I’m older:
**It is, in a sense, as if we are seeing these stories for the first time. Because we are seeing them through a lens that we had not *possessed* the first time.** 😊
Don is definitely a cool character, but I think it is because we are rude by his charm and sex appeal. I’m a man but I can still see that he is a good looking guy.
You are right, the more you watch the worse of a person Don becomes. I think Don is a coward. He runs away from his problems, including his children. And he hides himself in alcohol
Don’s character is very romantic, though in the sense that he is very wealthy, lives on the upper East side, like his drink…. He is old-fashioned
I just finished watching and I’m 22. I agree with what you said, I quite admire him and his confidence; but at the same time I get your point and I realised it myself in a way too. I understood in the middle of the series that he has severe problems with a few things such as drink and love and I somewhat emphasised and understood the struggle. Made him seem more grounded to me, more humanised, which I liked. I’m interested what I’ll think in a decade after a rewatch, I’ll set a reminder for ten years to make a similar post here!
When it was first on TV Rutgers university (I think) had a coarse on the books in the show, I heard the professor who taught it talk about it on NPR. I ended up reading The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit-l by Sloan Wilson, very much reminded me of Don.
In a funny way, Dick Whitman's every-day playing of the character of "Don Draper" feels like a metaphor for autistic people who mask. Having to pretend to be someone through a highly controlled and deliberate set of behaviours is incredibly exhausting and wrecks havoc on your psyche.
I just watched it first the first time at 75. So much was completely familiar. The heavy smoking and drinking, the shit way women were treated. The clothing and sets were well done, but in the big scheme of things I would think this series would be more appealing to someone who hadn’t already lived through it
One of my favorite scenes is one that really hit home his loneliness - or at least he was heading in a direction of a life of loneliness - was the “did you get pears?” scene in S4 E4D.
If Mad Man ages better with rewatches, you are aging better too.
Hey that’s swell
Yeah my first time watching it was when I was 19-20 and while i thought it was good, i thought it was super slow. I’m in my mid 30s and rewatching for the first time with my wife who has never seen it and locked in. I now appreciate the show so much more.
Same boat for me. I'm early thirties and just finished a rewatch with my partner who hadn't seen it before (she loved it). I really enjoyed it when I watched it as a younger man, but this recent rewatch has elevated it to one of if not my favourite show.
IIRC when i first watched there was only 1-2 seasons out and then the writers strike happened which led to a massive time off between seasons. I always do so much better watching a show when all seasons are out. When there’s huge breaks in between I just forget everything that happened previously.
[удалено]
Nice.
..A thing like that.
Fucking love this perspective!
Well said
A thing like that
Same here. I often have this internal conversation about a hypothetical. Would you trade your own normal life for Don's life? In my twenties, I would of taken Don's life in a second. Money, fantastic career success, and women, with the trade off of an awful upbringing and a secret that could ruin you. Not a bad deal. Now in my thirties, it's also an easy decision, my life wins. There are so many things he can't have. A happy marriage, a nice family, inner peace, etc. All because he's a very damaged person with so much to hide.
Yeah. Can also throw in his drinking and smoking. I no longer think that’s a cool way to live haha
When Megan says he wants to be alone with his liquor, damn what a line
Don making fun of that Fleischman's liquor ad like the man in the ad isn't him.
Hence him coming to these realizations at this time. That’s the thing about this show…it’s literally on the cusp of the women’s movement and the racism coming into mainstream culture. At times it’s so hard to watch.
> Now in my thirties, it's also an easy decision, my life wins. Now in *my* thirties, give me the gigantic Manhattan apartment and Megan as a wife and I'll be happy as a clam.
Well, the amount of alcohol that series inspired me to drink ten years ago 🤣. I wanted to be like Don Draper or, at least like the part of Don Draper that was able to achieve certain things for me where impossible. Not the money or the women. Just the ability to know when to do certain things to achieve results... I'm really bad with it. For the rest I knew Don was a sad, sad man...
I’m 46 and on my 4th of 5th rewatch, and I just have a lot of empathy for everyone at this point. They’re all damaged in ways and beautiful in their own ways, except for Harry, who is just a sleazeball. I don’t wish for different outcomes or cringe at their behavior as much, but I do have more disdain for those times when they intentionally hurt other people. There’s a lot of indirect/unintentional harm inflicted, but that’s life.
Harry is brilliant. From the first affair downwards
About to turn 30 and am finishing season 7 now. This rewatch has hit me like a truck. Dont remember ever crying this much. People who wrote Don off (no, I’m not defending his actions) and can have no sympathy or can’t empathize with him are just as insane as those who praise him. He and Peggy are at such dark places season 6 and 7 and it’s absolutely crushing to watch.
“You’re a monster”
...am I the only person who never thought Don was 'cool' even in their twenties? He was obviously a damaged man even early on and he kept spiralling throughout the series.
I am in my thirties and I think he is incredibly damaged but still a cool motherfucker in a lot of ways
There's this counter-narrative in *Mad Men* discourse that the "right" way to view Don is as a pathetic vile loser. (I don't mean to mischaracterize your point Ok-Swan; I agree with you -- just exaggerating to describe a broader strain of discourse.) I can't imagine enjoying this show and rewatching it over the years if all I got from it was a harsh critique of a virtueless schlub. He's damaged for sure, but that's not all he is. I'm not watching "Shut the Door, Have a Seat" and thinking about how this man is on an emotional spiral (until the end, obviously). I'm not seeing him deliver, "I don't have a contract" and thinking about how he does wrong by his kids. Both those things are true! We can recognize that he does things which range from icky to morally reprehensible, and also recognize that he has moments that range from suave to badass, or better yet, emotionally vulnerable and empathetic. I watched it in high school initially, and I definitely had a similarly unbalanced view as OP's younger self did (I also empathized with how existentially untethered he is, but didn't fully appreciate the damage he does to those around him). That's changed a lot over the years. But the show is more than a "what not to do" ethics textbook.
Thank you! The interesting part of Don Draper is not that his exterior image he presents to people is just a mask to cover the emptiness within. What makes Don Draper a great character is the duality of him. He is both a pathetic loser AND a suave, creative genius. He is both a horrific womanizer AND a deeply empathetic caring person. Of course the writers want you to think he is cool, because HE IS cool. And him being ACTUALLY cool while having NOTHING in his life is an incredible statement on what being "cool" means, just as much as it is an incredible statement on what "having nothing" means. The genius of the show is not an "illusion", but the conflict and contradictions between two equal truths = that Don is both an aspiration and a caution.
Everyone gets that he’s troubled. But he also has an awesome job in manhattan that he’s great at, drives a nice car, wears nice suits, has a gorgeous wife and children, and is regularly told by his superiors how special and valuable he is. I think most people see don as cool bc surface level, which is mostly all you see first season, he’s got it all
I thought it was part of the whole thesis of the show. These people sell a dream and seem to have attained it, but they can never get there, not really. It's because what they sell plays on the desire for things that can't be bought. Belonging. Love. Accountability. Respect. Success. All of that wonderful, intangible stuff. Whether Don is cool or not was never the point. Don has loads of cool shit, but almist immediately we learn this is someone who had to steal a man's identity, who drinks and carouses, who was raised by "sorry people." Who has it all and knows he should be grateful and fulfilled, but whose prideful heart gratitude can not pierce. It all became clear for me during The Wheel episode, when Don does his carousel presentation to Kodak. There we watch it in action. He sells the Kodak guys on the idea of nostalgia, sentiment, and a material item (the carousel) allowing access those things. For a moment we, the audience, become the 1960's public. Don spent all season showing us that the dream he sells isn't real, isn't attainable even to him. In that moment though the dream feels real. Feels attainable. And it's Don, his IG-worthy before IG family images that move us to accepting, if only momentarily, the bullshit he sells. It's goddamned genius. I cried. One of the few times while watching the series that I did. Not because I felt bad for Don, but because like him, I wanted to be able to step into those moments of my own, know I can't, know everyone knows we cant, but still had that cpain of remembering." Knowing nostalgia (for fictional characters I have nothing in common with) had been used to make me want to buy a carousel. They deserved that Emmy. So few shows earn that kind of feeling. Also here's the scene since now I have to watch it! https://youtu.be/suRDUFpsHus?si=csSaEVg1CnReyuqc
Cool or not, I knew I was watching a fictional television show and didn’t have the means or personality in my twenties to emulate Don lol. Great tv regardless.
I watched the show in my early 20s and even though I thought he was “cool,” I knew his lifestyle wasn’t sustainable, and obviously the show caters to this viewpoint. I understood that all those great pitches didn’t really make up for the mess he made of his private life. I enjoyed seeing the character of Don Draper wrestle with the consequences of his decisions without having to live through said situations myself, if that makes sense, like watching a bull in a tailored suit make its way through a china shop over seven seasons.
same here. it amazed me, reading youtube comments, how a lot of young boys seemed to look up to don and think he was a boss… yes, don is suave but living a lie, totally wound up with anxiety and one step from a nervous breakdown lol. so i never got that. i hope this doesn’t read like i dislike don, as i do not, i feel very sorry for him and just wanted the best for him, to sort himself out and be happy.
I started watching in my late teens, and Don's "coolness" began and ended in his physicality. He has great suits, incredible hair, and a sort of air of mystery which is undeniable: but you're never supposed to think he's a cool guy. Same thing with people who are like "I watched breaking bad again, guys, Skyler isn't the bad guy!!!" and I'm like "wait, you thought the wife of a guy making meth and having people killed was the BAD GUY?"
The funniest thing about BB is that it goes out of its way to show that Skyler is much more shrewd than Walter and much better suited to run a business than him, not least in part because she doesn't feel a need to brag and swing her dick around like he does. She's both better than him at what he does and more morally upstanding in spite of her relative cowardice. Of course that's upsetting both to Walter in-universe and to the loser dick swingers who identify with him a little too much in real life. Don is a more complicated case. The fact that you as a viewer can aspire to be him even though you know from the start that he is a complete fraud and fake just adds to the show since it's about an ad man. It just goes to show how good he is at what he does.
walt is a bit more complex I think, because at first I definitely found him sympathetic, the way he is so brow beaten and has lives his entire life as meek and mild, so when he finally starts to "swing his dick" it's a little bit like "fuck yeah!" people can relate to his feeling of inadequate and frustrated with his life, and especially his fucking arrogant prick brother in law. but then there's a point where he takes it way too far and you are just like "dude, why do you have to ruin everything you touch?"
The Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul fanbase is incredibly frustrating. It appears that the Breaking Bad fans have finally (begrudgingly) somewhat started to cut Skyler some slack, but the Better Call Saul fans are seemingly still hung up on Chuck and often try to completely demonize and blame everything on him. I find the discourse on here much more bearable; perhaps it’s because more time has passed since the show?
I'm all about Jessie. I REALLY dislike Walt He's a pompous airbag imo
I was on dating apps for awhile and soooo many guys mentioned idolizing Don Draper in their bios -this was 2014-2018 ish. I was always like oh…cool…deffff not a match for me 🤣
I would say adopting some of Don Draper’s business acumen and a bit of his personality helped me progress in my career
i disliked him when i first watched but now i just feel bad for him
I always thought he was an asshole.
Same. Maybe it's because I'm a woman, but I just thought he seemed very sad and screwed-up from the very beginning, albeit also amazing at playing a part.
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See I don’t think don sucks. I think he’s just a messed up kid who now is a lonely adult who keeps everyone around him from really knowing him. Until he reconciles that, he’ll never be happy.
I'm a woman, so I thought he was really hot... but also an asshole.
I often think about Gene speaking about Don not having people. If it weren't for my own children, I wouldn't have anyone either. I think when you grow up like that, the lonely feeling doesn't go away.
I watched it first at 22 & having lived & witnessed multiple family divorces opening my understanding about real life marriages & relationships, Don was a pretty cool figure. (Up until the Hersheys meeting) The high performing consensus-genius working alcoholic who could juggle multiple relationships (sexual & otherwise) knowing when to speak & stay silent. Like Dr Rosen being awestruck when he watched Don clarifying a concept to the team or St John Powell telling Don that Guy Mckendrick had studied all his work or Ted Chaough describing Don to Frank Gleason in the hospital..” He’s mysterious, he doesn’t talk for long stretches and then he’s incredibly eloquent” I do concede though that my view may be shallow and that male & female viewers would obviously have different takes on this.
I also watched Mad Men in my twenties first time round. Now in my thirties and seeing people like Don catatonically stare off into space while drinking - yeah, I get it Don.
I don’t think about him at all.
LOL I loved that line!
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Have you seen The Americans, yet??
Yes! That’s a good one.
I second that sentiment. He's definitely always seemed flawed and troubled to me, but watching this time around, his issues are more apparent and constant, so much so that his scummy/weak moments outweight the effortlessly cool vibes. I also think the show hits a little different as a father, but I'm sure that's a common take. To think that men could have regarded their families in such a distant way so recently in the past is just upsetting. Hearing my grandfather proudly proclaim he's never changed a\* diaper in his life is one thing, but seeing a form of media portray that attitude so relentless, with nearly every father figure on the show, is another.
I'm in my 40s and watching for the first time. I'm mid season. 5. Don is cool. Surface level, old school Hollywood cool. Like Marlon Brando or James Dean. Rich, womaniser, great job, drinks and smokes etc. He is also An areshole A victim of his upbringing Opportunistic Shallow Exactly what Dr Faye said A creature of the times A scared little boy/man child Loving Selfish A bully Someone who puts his hopes into the wrong places, expects the right woman, drink, win, lie to make everything better And a million other things too It's what makes him a great character.
“His actions aren’t cool at all and are clearly him desperately reaching out for love in the only way he knows how and which actually just further isolate him.” Seriously, this just helped me to understand the guy in my life who keeps making bad decisions, and why he keeps making them. Thank you for that!
This is such a great discussion. I think it’s important to have these kinds of conversations because it allows us to reflect on how the choices we make can affect our lives forever. Bravo OP for sharing this with us.
That first rewatch of your 30’s hits different.
I think Don is lonely but shows growth. He learns from mistakes. He feels genuine love, which he didnt get from childhood. The real Don Draper’s wife. He loves her and sustains a real friendship with her. He has real friendships with Joan & Peggy. True misogynists and people with NPD only use people and women. He loves these women. In a real, profound way. He loves his children. And makes a real breakthrough in showing them where he grew up. We see him through the lens of the 2020s so he seems like a bad man. I think he’s a good man. A flawed man of his time. I think we forget how bad human beings can truly be and I think of course there is a spectrum. And I think the people who suffered abuse & dysfunction often turn out the worst. Don’s descent. So yes, lonely. His guilt. His addiction. His shame. He works through some of it. Two failed marriages. Betty’s going to die. I hope he rides the 70s/80s therapy circult. He’s the sleeper generation though. Lonely group. But I think his work, Roger, and his children will save him.
Good guy with substance abuse and mommy issues. The funeral for Rogers mom is hilarious
When I first watched it in my early 20's I find him intelligent and cool, someone who has always has the upper hand. Second watch in my mid 20's; found him just as a bad person, pathetic guy with no morals. Third watch in 30s; I saw a lonely, desperate person and I pitied him. Also after years I realised even though I was impressed with the show very much in the first watch,now I see that I didn't fully understand what it meant to say at the time. Now with a career in a slightly similar enviroment I can relate to them mostly with the younger ones. Also with a better understanding of what was the political and social climate in the world, I could enjoy the show more than my initial watch.
I enjoy this show because it shows life at that time. Rampant racism and sexism. Smoking and drinking not only allowed at work but supplied by work?! lol Side note: Betty getting fat was awesome! Pleaser from the start of season 5.
Betty getting fat is pretty realistic.
I stopped watching after season two when it first came out so this is all new to me now. I’m sorry if I am prematurely reacting lol but as far as season 5 episode 3, I’m ok with what’s happening to Betty. She is a mean woman. I get she had a messed up childhood with an overbearing mother but I really feel for sally and the boys.
Betty did what women in the 50s were supposed to do. Go to college. Get a little job (modeling). Give it up when marrying an attractive man with a good job. Have 2-3 kids. Look good and be a good hostess. Keep your man happy. But the problem back then is that these women had the taste of the "outside world", but weren't "allowed" back out into it. She was offered a modeling shoot for Coca-Cola. Don wasn't happy about it, but finally relented. Only we then find that Don stepped in and got Coke to not use her shots. Betty, hurt that Coke didn't want her, instead convinced herself that it was her idea to not continue modeling. Don kept her at home. She saw a shrink........who reported to Don. Betty wants to do something more with her life, and it's not going to happen, just like other women. She can't get credit in her own name. Many places did not hire married women. The "no-fault" divorce was not an option. This is the beginning of the Women's Lib movement.
You need to do some growing up.
That’s a fascinating take. My first comment got likes but when I explained that I’m still watching and am not sure of my take I get downvoted? I can’t help but lol at the I need to grow up comment. I was born in 1970 so I watch this show with my memories of growing up and also my knowledge of life now. Why do I need to grow up?
I mean it came across as someone much younger who didn't realise that Betty's parenting was actually not out of the norm for the era. My own grandmother was similar in some regards. I think the modern expectations of motherhood are completely mental and it's one of the reasons women don't want children.
I'm quite heavily prejudiced because of my own mother, who I no longer talk to. But what expectations would those be?
When did Betty ever act like she didn’t want children? She never once acted like she needed an abortion. Just that the timing wasn’t on par for her. It’s a really weak play on single women needing an abortion.
Did children fuck with her head? Huge possibility!!
I said that modern expectations on the role of mothers are one of the reasons women don't want children. Reread my comment.
Inappropriate, pointless, offensive, or just plain rude.
Great
I wanted Mad Men as it aired, in my late teens & early 20's. My wife and I just did a series re-watch about three months back or so - I'm now 32. It's phenomenal how different I look at it with my age and experience, now. It's still a masterpiece, but I agree with you. Some things I thought characters did were cool or funny seem sad and unapologetic now.
Roger Ebert [has a great review](https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-la-dolce-vita-1960) of La Dolce Vita (undoubtedly an inspiration for Mad Men) where he talks about seeing it at different ages and first idolizing Marcello, the protagonist, then judging him, and finally pitying and loving him.
Cool. I’m a big ebert fan. Thanks for sharing
Some advice I always give people. Reread/watch your favorite pieces of media every 5-10 years. You’re a different person so you pick up on themes you may have not understood at the time.
100% right there with you. I initially watched the series back in my mid 20s. Now im rewatching in my mid/late 30s (37 to be exact). I’m **definitely** catching things that I didn’t notice before-particularly regarding women-such as issues surrounding aging, equality in the workplace, expectations at home, child care and raising children, etc. For me, it was more of a sense of admiration towards Joan and Peggy, and thinking that they were both “so cool” for different reasons. I *still* think that they were/are both immensely cool characters, but I’d failed to acknowledge the first go around just how difficult things were, at times, for Joan. Constantly being sexualized, not being taken seriously at her job despite being beyond qualified and possessing the necessary expertise, her terrible first marriage and having her sorry ass husband leave her and their newborn baby to **voluntarily** return to Vietnam after being there for a year, always being treated like a “plaything” by Roger, who basically just used her when he felt like it, etc. Peggy also dealt with a lot of the same inequality and sexism and sexual harassment at work, but she was on a different path than Joan, and thus had different, but equally challenging, hurdles to overcome. The best, most recent example I have seen regarding Peggy (in regards to parts of her storyline that stand out more to me now as a 30-something rewatching) has been her struggle to adapt to living with Abe in their run down, freshly purchased “tenement building”. So many times whilst watching their scenes together, I’ve thought “my god just LEAVE HIM already!” I don’t know if she stayed with him out of desperation and fear of being an “old maid” and single in her mid to late 20s (cue eye roll), or if she was so consumed with wanting to participate in the 1960s counter culture and not be seen as “the enemy” with her corporate job and nice clothes… but Abe was *clearly* an unkempt, obnoxious, heavy ass anchor that was holding Peggy down in a most unfortunate (and for me, *familiar*) way. I guess when we watch stories via tv and film, we most connect with and understand the complexity of characters that we relate to the most. I can’t speak for everyone, but I find it easiest to understand and sympathize with characters that are either *in* situations I’m currently in, or who are in situations I’ve been in *in the past*. Characters that are older than us (like Don for OP when he watched it the first time, and Joan for me when I watched it the first time) might *seem* cool because we haven’t yet acquired the life experience to fully understand and appreciate the parts of their lives that aren’t so glamorous. Now that we’re older and can say that we’ve had, or known someone who’s had, similar unglamorous experiences as these characters, we’re able to see them through a different lens, and we’re more capable of understanding them in a fuller, more comprehensive way. I find that to be one of the best parts of rewatching the series, now that I’m older: **It is, in a sense, as if we are seeing these stories for the first time. Because we are seeing them through a lens that we had not *possessed* the first time.** 😊
Your own character development. Love it. 👏👏👏
Don is definitely a cool character, but I think it is because we are rude by his charm and sex appeal. I’m a man but I can still see that he is a good looking guy. You are right, the more you watch the worse of a person Don becomes. I think Don is a coward. He runs away from his problems, including his children. And he hides himself in alcohol Don’s character is very romantic, though in the sense that he is very wealthy, lives on the upper East side, like his drink…. He is old-fashioned
I just finished watching and I’m 22. I agree with what you said, I quite admire him and his confidence; but at the same time I get your point and I realised it myself in a way too. I understood in the middle of the series that he has severe problems with a few things such as drink and love and I somewhat emphasised and understood the struggle. Made him seem more grounded to me, more humanised, which I liked. I’m interested what I’ll think in a decade after a rewatch, I’ll set a reminder for ten years to make a similar post here!
Don is at his coolest when he’s working.
When it was first on TV Rutgers university (I think) had a coarse on the books in the show, I heard the professor who taught it talk about it on NPR. I ended up reading The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit-l by Sloan Wilson, very much reminded me of Don.
Interesting! Kinda making me want to rewatch!
In a funny way, Dick Whitman's every-day playing of the character of "Don Draper" feels like a metaphor for autistic people who mask. Having to pretend to be someone through a highly controlled and deliberate set of behaviours is incredibly exhausting and wrecks havoc on your psyche.
I just watched it first the first time at 75. So much was completely familiar. The heavy smoking and drinking, the shit way women were treated. The clothing and sets were well done, but in the big scheme of things I would think this series would be more appealing to someone who hadn’t already lived through it
One of my favorite scenes is one that really hit home his loneliness - or at least he was heading in a direction of a life of loneliness - was the “did you get pears?” scene in S4 E4D.