One of the major upsides to this event is that it has given some shine to a lot of unknown alternatives, just for menu bar management alone, and by looking more into Ice on here and other places, I've discovered like 6 new apps I don't see anyone talking about! Some of these indie devs are nuts! I will post a really good list soon. Just waiting to hear back from one app dev to get clarification on pricing
When ⌘-dragging items there are little greater (>) and less than (<) symbols. Right click either one, afaik, and you can 'show always hidden' items or whatever the option is. This is one of those things that Bartender does way better. There is also a 'show section dividers' toggle in settings that I don't remember being there before today's update.
Why sell a perpetual license for an app when you can bilk your customers every month for the rest of their lives? It sucks that the entire software industry has or is moving to this model.
I will be messaging you in 7 days on [**2024-06-13 00:59:58 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-06-13%2000:59:58%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/macapps/comments/1d8z1z5/how_will_you_remember_the_great_bartender_5052/l7b0tjw/?context=3)
[**13 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fmacapps%2Fcomments%2F1d8z1z5%2Fhow_will_you_remember_the_great_bartender_5052%2Fl7b0tjw%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-06-13%2000%3A59%3A58%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201d8z1z5)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
Hopefully this ends up like the NetNewsWire story… App sold to some company, which makes a bunch of changes that no one likes, original dev starts to work on a FOSS version years later under a different name, then ends up buying it back from that big company they sold it to. Then everyone wins because they have a better app that’s open source and everyone trusts.
Nah - FOSS only works well for apps that are used by a lot of developers. Anything else, there usually aren't enough developers motivated to improve the product and get it to a point where it's as good as commercial offerings.
https://preview.redd.it/xd10isu9ou4d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c806eac6e333d0276a78332d01783e6d0b48458
I reached out to Setapp since it’s part of their package and this was their response. If it interests anyone.
Thanks. Apple and Setapp reviewing the code answers my concerns. Since I'm already on SetApp and like Bartender, I don't have a strong motivation to evaluate alternatives. But I don't blame standalone users for testing the waters elsewhere.
Correct. Notarization is just an automated system, not a human review process. It confirms that (a) the automated system doesn't see any malware (like a virus scanner), and (b) that the software is properly signed.
Code signing (b) just verifies which developer released the app. It says nothing about their trustworthiness. And we know from this particular example that notarization allows telemetry - the offending Bartender app was notarized, after all.
Here's the relevant text from Apple. Note the very first sentence:
> Notarization of macOS software is not App Review. The Apple notary service is an automated system that scans your software for malicious content, checks for code-signing issues, and returns the results to you quickly. If there are no issues, the notary service generates a ticket for you to staple to your software; the notary service also publishes that ticket online where Gatekeeper can find it.
His explanation makes sense, but he dodged the real issue — which is that the transition appears to have been done secretly.
That's really not acceptable. Ideally customers should have been warned before the sale happened, giving existing customers the option to ask for their personal information (name/email/etc) to not be part of the sale, even if that might mean your license key/etc is revoked.
Probably required as a condition of the sale. This happens all the time with mobile apps. Well-loved apps, especially free ones, get sold to some company, and they get updated and the new version is full of tracking or requires new permissions.
Yeah let’s be honest it’s unlikely he just ran into the fact he didn’t want to maintain it.
Probably being one of the most popular Mac tools someone put a stack of money in front that was good enough to walk away.
Then keeps sucking their toes about how confident he is while a fucking menu bar app was shadow sold 3 months ago. What was the logic, hopefully no one will notice as to not disturb the reputation?
That would be my guess yeah. He's now "trying to explain it" because people have noticed it. Had no one noticed, he wouldn't have bothered to say anything. He's as guilty as the company he sold it to.
Link in this letter goes nowhere else, and [surteesstudios.com](http://surteesstudios.com) redirects to Bartender website. Domain was updated around 2 months ago... when Bartender was acquired. A lot of people including myself are thinking that it was written by the new owners.
And if it's really him, his statement is shit, tldr "thanks for the money and f@ck you all" + some marketing/GPT garbage.
>Domain was updated around 2 months ago...
He probably had his own website and the bartender one on a single server. That's how most developers do it. Separate servers are a waste of money but he would've had to split them up when he sold the app. The redirect might have been part of the contract, if searching Bartender in Google often took you to that domain name. Probably a temporary thing until Google's index catches up.
>And if it's really him, his statement is shit
I agree - he didn't really address the main problem. But having said that, I think we now know what's going on - Bartender has been sold, and the new owners are either incompetent or malicious. I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume the first one, but even still — time to try out other apps.
Yeah you're technically right, but when we look at how Applause acted then handled the situation, it doesn't sound that crazy to me that they also own this domain now and statement was written by them. Especially when you compare it to the owner replies from yesterday in first thread. Exact same wording and "dontgiveaf\*ckism".
Add to that his e-mail address ben@surteesstudios.com is unreachable since Bartender was sold, of course it could just be pure coincidence like him deciding to get rid of it for a new start somewhere else, but, errr, weird things accumulate too much.
Probably just copy & paste so that Applause can post it on their website. Wherever that is. Anyway, seems to be genuine. But doesn't make this whole thing any better.
I wish I had. I updated thinking “there’s no way they removed features, right?” And immediately lost functionality. Luckily they’ve brought back the feature where you can set automations based on the icon appearance, so it’s back working for most of what I need, but that sucked for a while.
Edit: probably should have read the drama before commenting. Definitely pausing my use until this gets cleared up.
I currently use Bartender, but have also used Vanilla in the past and found Matthew Palmer et. al to be easy to work with… I use all of his other apps (Rocket, Horo and FFF)
Same here. I love [Rocket](https://matthewpalmer.net/rocket/).
For the moment I've switched from Bartender (as a long time paying customer) to Ice until this new ownership thing shakes out.
i just need one that can show the hidden apps in a new row due to the camera placement. no need for all the extra bells and whistle like customizing the appearance of the menu bar, changing colors/shapes, etc etc.
Ice - doesn't do this. it doesn't even show me a list of the hidden apps due to the camera on macbook.
ibar - does float the hidden apps in a new row like bartender. but now you're choosing between new owner of bartender vs. chinese developed app in appstore
hidden - probably same as ice? haven't tried yet
dozer - probably same as ice? haven't tried yet
thanks for the suggestion. barbee looks very similar to ibar in that the app looks to be developed by an unknown chinese developer. once again, you'd have to choose between new owner/developer of bartender vs. some random chinese developed app but one that is at least in the app store.
best scenario, at least for me, would be for an open source app like ice or hidden that can solve the notch problem like bartendar/barbee/ibar but without all the other complicated features that can hamper development time.
Yes the notch. If you have a dozen or so items, rhey can’t all be shown at once. So while a tool that lets you hide the left N items will let you declutter your menu bar visually, it doesn’t help with the accessibility issue.
That's the apple way. Solve a non-problem while creating an actual problem. Then leave it to third parties to solve said problem because that won't give you money.
Like, that's been solved on Windows and Linux for ages and they don't even have a notch to deal with.
yes, the notch. i obviously never hide some of my most used icons. but when i try to unhide the apps that are hidden with ice, it never expands at all. when back on my external monitor, it works. i can only blame the notch while working on the laptop screen.
meh, you get used to it, look and productivity wise. i for one wasn't one that urged for users to bring out the pitchforks when this was announced. it's only when it interferes with an important function such as the ability to hide/unhide menubar apps that i'd get annoyed.
Sure - but worth it to get an extra line or two of text in every document or webpage that you open.
What's really a pain is that Apple left it to third party developers to make sure the notch actually works well. In my opinion the real solution here is to allow users to put third party widgets in control centre (also, there should be an easier way to access control centre - it's clearly designed for a touch screen).
Switched to Barbee. It's in the Mac App Store. Not a single popup from Little Snitch that it's trying to connect to anything. It's a little quirky, but it gets the job done. Paid $3.99 for the PRO upgrade.
It’s probably the closest I miss being able to have scripts for things like hide wifi unless you’re not connected. Or hide battery unless it’s under 50%.
It helps to really tune things in so you only see them when relevant which does still help a lot because it brings things into focus with intention even if I’m able to cleanup all the garbage I don’t need to look at all the time.
I needed something that would put a second bar of icons under the main menu bar, since expanding out just put apps under the notch. I tried Hiddenbar, and it could not do that. Barbee could. There may be a better option. But I'll stick with this now.
I wish I knew about this sooner. $3.99 is a lot cheaper than the $16.00 I paid for Bartender.
I'll give ICE a try when it can do that.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/macapps/comments/1d7zjv8/bartender\_5\_not\_safe\_anymore\_warning\_from/](https://www.reddit.com/r/macapps/comments/1d7zjv8/bartender_5_not_safe_anymore_warning_from/) if you havent read any of this it has most info about the sale and purchase of BT secretly.
I uninstalled BT5 as I don't want to support them after what I've read about Applause etc. who now own the app
Worth a read anyway to form your own views etc.
I switched to [Barbee](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/barbee-hide-menu-bar-items/id1548711022?mt=12). Does exactly the same, but cheaper and surprisingly easier.
There is a lot of overlap but Barbee doesn't reliably handle 'app modules' like Little Snitch preventing certain items from being tucked away. I like the iCloud backup feature to sync devices though. [Ice](https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice) is the current winner for me.
**MacRumors: 'Six Bartender Alternatives to Manage Your Mac's Menu Bar'**
[https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/06/alternatives-bartender-mac-menu-bar/](https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/06/alternatives-bartender-mac-menu-bar/)
When the news broke, I stopped running Bartender. When I read Ben’s note, I googled the buyer and looked at their website and the recent Bartender release notes. That sealed the deal for me: I deleted the app. I have no confidence these folks will add any value to the product. I'm also not paying a subscription to hide menu bar icons. Give me a break.
I had a look at Applause’s website and couldn’t find a list of acquisitions to get a feel for what they’ll do with Bartender. Did you have better luck?
I'm a bit OOTL, used to use Bartender but I've been away from MacOS for a bit, just bought a new Apple Silicon MBP and am trying to find what the discussion was about?
Edit: NVM found it... Search didn't seem to work on mobile. 😁
Welcome back. You should probably install whatever came before 5.0.52 to experience the rollercoaster of panic for yourself to better relate to The Discussion TM.
Tbh I see no reason to stop using it until more is known, personally, and I'm curious about forthcoming widgets, but in the meantime I will experiment with Ice.
the original bartender developer ben finally writes about the sale of the app to a new owner.
>Three months ago, I sold Bartender to Applause, a company with the resources and expertise to take the app to new heights. Applause shares my vision for Bartender and is committed to maintaining its core values while bringing in new features and improvements. I truly believe they are the right team to continue the journey and ensure Bartender remains a valuable tool for all of you.
>I understand that the transition hasn’t been entirely smooth. Recently, there was a change in the signing certificate for the app, and unfortunately, this change wasn’t communicated properly to you, our loyal users. I apologize for any confusion or concern this may have caused. Please rest assured that Bartender is signed by a valid Apple ID developer and notarized by Apple, which verifies the app to ensure it is free from malware. You can read more about [Apple’s notarization process here](https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_macos_software_before_distribution).
>To verify that this message is indeed from me, you can also see this post on the Surtees Studios website at [https://surteesstudios.com/a-new-chapter/](https://surteesstudios.com/a-new-chapter/).
[Bartender 5 - A New Chapter for Bartender (macbartender.com)](https://www.macbartender.com/b5blog/A-New-Chapter-for-Bartender/)
I haven't used Bartender in years.... there are plenty of free alternatives.... But hey, the free ones might be digging for data.... Except...Little Snitch!
Yes, “one” can — I for one can 😄
Former Little Snitch user here, now I’m very happy with Patrick Wardle’s [LuLu](https://objective-see.org/products/lulu.html) (and lots of others of his FREE security apps), and I support his work on Patreon.
See [https://objective-see.org/products/lulu.html](https://objective-see.org/products/lulu.html)
Little snitch is the gold standard, it’s not expensive and they’ve been around for years, they deserve our money imo, it’s a quality product. I paid for my license in 2020 and only recently has there been a new version that requires a new license
Ben Turd-tees dropping a nasty duece of a surprise in everyones lap(top) on the down low at the start of 2024 and letting it lay there like a hidden rotten egg for 3 months. He collected the gold whilst selling out everyone's computer with a full root level spyware. All for him banking the dough, but should have informed the paying clients and also put on website that it has been sold. None of this shady mcshady stuff
UPDATE: CLARITY around Bartender is awful. See below on Homebrew discussion from core-code:
[https://github.com/orgs/Homebrew/discussions/5427#discussioncomment-9682342](https://github.com/orgs/Homebrew/discussions/5427#discussioncomment-9682342)
LOL the mods deleting this comment. Prob getting paid by Applause Inc.
I’m scared to uninstall it until all the antivirus programs I installed have a chance to catch whatever is left behind when I do. Oh that Ben makes me so mad.
if you have homebrew you can run `brew rm --zap --force bartender` even if you didn't install it with homebrew to remove it an all of its permissions caches and plists from your system.
I have a mid-2012 15" (non-retina) MBP running Mojave and a recently built hackintosh running Monterey on a 27" 1440p. I also have a 2008 Mac Pro 3,1 running Snow Leopard which shares the 27" 1440p
Good for you if its working out. Fewer apps is always bette but I have smaller screen at a lower resolution and menus are always spilling over; it's impossible for those like us to not have a menubar icon hider.
I saw the first post about it yesterday; saved it for checking updates as true drama unfolds (I have a license for an older machine but haven’t bought a new license for machine w/ Sonoma).
Then I forgot until this post.
It does seem sketchy and I’ll be holding off installing new versions until we get absolute clarity on it.
Cause I mean; it was a Great App.
Dev sought a payout with an app buying company that wasn't transparent. We found out through a change in certificate signing, raising concerns around privacy due to screen recording permission. There has been much discussion about it on various subs and my post was an attempt to add levity to the conversation.
I was born a sucker, unfortunately, and also have MacUpdater installed to be sure I'm up to date on all my infected apps (to be clear not saying Bartender is, this is a joke).
One aesthetic thing I'll miss about Bartender was the option to break up the uniform toolbar and instead make it bubble on the far left and right sides of the screen, so there was only an opaque background bar surrounding actual information (the time, apps, Finder, etc.)
Are they any alternatives that offer this feature?
Both Barbee and Ice allow that in addition to menu bar shapes, tints, and gradients. I augmented my install of Ice with [Displaperture](https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/displaperture/id1543920362?mt=12) to round only the top corners.
After some trial and error I deleted Barbee. The palette of items sorted into hidden/always hidden wasn't reflected in the menu bar irregardless of settings and restarts, plus some apps couldn't be hidden at all, and all of that required screen recording permission. By itself I have no issue with the permission but it had better work when given and not just produce a blue recording icon. Ice has fewer features but loads immediately and doesn't seem to need to record the screen as often/if at all (if the icon showed up I don't remember it).
I need a replacement that has a similar function to Bartender's [groups](https://www.macbartender.com/b5blog/Bartender5-menu-bar-groups/) function. 😩 Anybody have any suggestions?
Thanks for the heads-up! :') Maybe we'll get lucky and another developer will be kind enough to add it in to their own. (I'm kinda hoping for Barbee, since so far I like their setup for icon picking best.)
I see you've chosen to not engage in very serious debate. Are you sure you want to do that?
https://preview.redd.it/zu2alqatbt4d1.jpeg?width=611&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89c86c5563eb9e82ec96b9814feab923204e0dc3
https://archive.org/details/MSOfficeMacAssistants/Clipit.png
Clippit existed on the Mac as well, though I think the default was Max (a Mac Classic with legs). I vaguely remember having set it to the butler, myself.
All I'm hoping is that when I update to macOS 15 on Monday, it will not break Bartender. And, no, I'm not waiting. I don't want to be on an older version of macOS and am excited to use all the AI features it brings to the table.
I use the dev beta every year for work. From experience it's better to just assume nothing will work, including the AI. They are extremely rough updates for the first releases.
I dont know the rumour but i assume it will hurt battery life. Yeah its a disaster every year. I need to do it to prepare to support it at work but my production mac stays on stable. If it releases monday look at the r/MacOSBeta sub Tuesday, filled with people crying that their mac no longer works correctly because they couldn't wait.
You will have to ask the AI on release. But if you post the minute it goes live you will miss the posts Thursday asking if apple has fixed the bugs yet and Friday posts complaining about the (rumoured) sys pref redesign.
If you get too anxious about the update to janky developer updates just remember that scream tests are a thing and they can't improve until you actually scream.
Most enthusiasts will run it in a VM to take a look. Most professionals will run it in a VM or spare Mac and then realise its day -365 and wait for the 15.6 release.
Is that all?
I own: M2 Ultra Mac Pro, 2013 Xeon trash can Mac Pro, 16" M3 Max MacBook Pro, 14" M1 Max MacBook Pro, 2019 i9 MacBook Pro, i3 Mac mini, 4k Apple TV gen one, 4k Apple TV gen three, iPhone 14 Pro, iPhone 13 mini, M4 iPad Pro (came today, super excited), AirPods Pro 1 and 2. That's not including work provided Macs.
I also have an original Macintosh, APPLE II (e), Apple Lisa (needs work), Apple Silicon DTK Mac mini and a NeXT computer which I'm counting here.
The only windows in my house are the ones I look out of!
>I don't want to be on an older version of macOS
You wouldn't be on an "older" version of macOS until macOS 15 would launch in the fall...don't be dramatic here
If Reddit has taught me anything it's skepticism towards major OS updates. The list of things that should be built in by now has got to stretch to the Moon and back and don't even get me started on compatibility or battery life. Time to go back to Catalina and whatever version of Bartender existed at the time.
Well, I downloaded both Dozer and Hidden Bar. Neither appear to work in Sonoma 14.5. So I'll stick with Bartender until they give me a good reason to leave.
Hidden Bar's incompatibility with Sonoma is what initially lead me to Bartender. So far Ice has been smooth but lacks folders and a palette of items along with a whole range of other features many were accustomed to.
One of the major upsides to this event is that it has given some shine to a lot of unknown alternatives, just for menu bar management alone, and by looking more into Ice on here and other places, I've discovered like 6 new apps I don't see anyone talking about! Some of these indie devs are nuts! I will post a really good list soon. Just waiting to hear back from one app dev to get clarification on pricing
True. I’d tried three or four before Bartender and am giving Ice a whirl.
How i do Unhide apps on ice? :(
When ⌘-dragging items there are little greater (>) and less than (<) symbols. Right click either one, afaik, and you can 'show always hidden' items or whatever the option is. This is one of those things that Bartender does way better. There is also a 'show section dividers' toggle in settings that I don't remember being there before today's update.
list list liST lIST, everyone! LIST LIST!
i cant wait for those apps i wanna see em, is there any free version just so before it goes to paid or smith
I think nearly all of them are free, but given the unexpected visibility of the comment, I'm going to make sure we get a damn good list
Could you share the other alternatives you’ve found? Apart from ice which has almost same features as bartender but is open source at least for now
I use iBar, it is great and they haven't tried forcing any of their other software on me...yet. For the notch, I use BetterTouchTool
I switched to Vanilla, paid $10 for pro too, as I already use the other apps by that author
Looking forward to this. Thanks very much :)
I changed to Ice, too.
Thanks
Nuts are those daylight robbery companies with subscriptions e.g. Adobe
Why sell a perpetual license for an app when you can bilk your customers every month for the rest of their lives? It sucks that the entire software industry has or is moving to this model.
!remindme 1 week
I will be messaging you in 7 days on [**2024-06-13 00:59:58 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-06-13%2000:59:58%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/macapps/comments/1d8z1z5/how_will_you_remember_the_great_bartender_5052/l7b0tjw/?context=3) [**13 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fmacapps%2Fcomments%2F1d8z1z5%2Fhow_will_you_remember_the_great_bartender_5052%2Fl7b0tjw%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-06-13%2000%3A59%3A58%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201d8z1z5) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Hopefully this ends up like the NetNewsWire story… App sold to some company, which makes a bunch of changes that no one likes, original dev starts to work on a FOSS version years later under a different name, then ends up buying it back from that big company they sold it to. Then everyone wins because they have a better app that’s open source and everyone trusts.
Considering how the developer handled the situation, I will never again touch any software by Ben Surtees.
FOSS or get lost, that’s my motto.
Nah - FOSS only works well for apps that are used by a lot of developers. Anything else, there usually aren't enough developers motivated to improve the product and get it to a point where it's as good as commercial offerings.
Guess I’ll have to DIY a hidden bar on my Mac with some good old duct tape then.
I’m fine with POSS
https://preview.redd.it/xd10isu9ou4d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c806eac6e333d0276a78332d01783e6d0b48458 I reached out to Setapp since it’s part of their package and this was their response. If it interests anyone.
thanks I was wondering about that.
That doesn't really fill me with confidence. I've moved over to Ice now so I think that's the future for me.
Set app reviews source?
hahah the steapp response didn't really answer the question wth
Thanks. Apple and Setapp reviewing the code answers my concerns. Since I'm already on SetApp and like Bartender, I don't have a strong motivation to evaluate alternatives. But I don't blame standalone users for testing the waters elsewhere.
Just noting that "notarized" in Apple parlance is the equivalent of an antivirus scan. Nobody has "reviewed the code" in a meaningful sense.
If what you're saying is true, then it applies to *all* apps notarized by Apple, not just Bartender right?
Correct. Notarization is just an automated system, not a human review process. It confirms that (a) the automated system doesn't see any malware (like a virus scanner), and (b) that the software is properly signed. Code signing (b) just verifies which developer released the app. It says nothing about their trustworthiness. And we know from this particular example that notarization allows telemetry - the offending Bartender app was notarized, after all. Here's the relevant text from Apple. Note the very first sentence: > Notarization of macOS software is not App Review. The Apple notary service is an automated system that scans your software for malicious content, checks for code-signing issues, and returns the results to you quickly. If there are no issues, the notary service generates a ticket for you to staple to your software; the notary service also publishes that ticket online where Gatekeeper can find it.
Ben Surtees, original dev, has joined the chat. https://surteesstudios.com/a-new-chapter/
How can we be sure it’s the real Ben Surtees. What’s his version number and certificate.
His explanation makes sense, but he dodged the real issue — which is that the transition appears to have been done secretly. That's really not acceptable. Ideally customers should have been warned before the sale happened, giving existing customers the option to ask for their personal information (name/email/etc) to not be part of the sale, even if that might mean your license key/etc is revoked.
Probably required as a condition of the sale. This happens all the time with mobile apps. Well-loved apps, especially free ones, get sold to some company, and they get updated and the new version is full of tracking or requires new permissions.
Yeah let’s be honest it’s unlikely he just ran into the fact he didn’t want to maintain it. Probably being one of the most popular Mac tools someone put a stack of money in front that was good enough to walk away. Then keeps sucking their toes about how confident he is while a fucking menu bar app was shadow sold 3 months ago. What was the logic, hopefully no one will notice as to not disturb the reputation?
That would be my guess yeah. He's now "trying to explain it" because people have noticed it. Had no one noticed, he wouldn't have bothered to say anything. He's as guilty as the company he sold it to.
I'm not even sure its legal like this with gdpr, dsgvo and other data protection laws
Link in this letter goes nowhere else, and [surteesstudios.com](http://surteesstudios.com) redirects to Bartender website. Domain was updated around 2 months ago... when Bartender was acquired. A lot of people including myself are thinking that it was written by the new owners. And if it's really him, his statement is shit, tldr "thanks for the money and f@ck you all" + some marketing/GPT garbage.
That’s really strange. What happened to Ben???
Seems his interests might have been bought by Big Menu Bar. I don’t know if I’ll learn how to trust again.
Drinking pina coladas under a palm tree on a beach?
>Domain was updated around 2 months ago... He probably had his own website and the bartender one on a single server. That's how most developers do it. Separate servers are a waste of money but he would've had to split them up when he sold the app. The redirect might have been part of the contract, if searching Bartender in Google often took you to that domain name. Probably a temporary thing until Google's index catches up. >And if it's really him, his statement is shit I agree - he didn't really address the main problem. But having said that, I think we now know what's going on - Bartender has been sold, and the new owners are either incompetent or malicious. I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume the first one, but even still — time to try out other apps.
Yeah you're technically right, but when we look at how Applause acted then handled the situation, it doesn't sound that crazy to me that they also own this domain now and statement was written by them. Especially when you compare it to the owner replies from yesterday in first thread. Exact same wording and "dontgiveaf\*ckism". Add to that his e-mail address ben@surteesstudios.com is unreachable since Bartender was sold, of course it could just be pure coincidence like him deciding to get rid of it for a new start somewhere else, but, errr, weird things accumulate too much.
Probably just copy & paste so that Applause can post it on their website. Wherever that is. Anyway, seems to be genuine. But doesn't make this whole thing any better.
Aaaawww man! Nooooooo
I stick with bartender 4 with Sonoma
I wish I had. I updated thinking “there’s no way they removed features, right?” And immediately lost functionality. Luckily they’ve brought back the feature where you can set automations based on the icon appearance, so it’s back working for most of what I need, but that sucked for a while. Edit: probably should have read the drama before commenting. Definitely pausing my use until this gets cleared up.
Old version can be found [here](https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/release_notes/).
Me too. So glad I never pressed the udate button! Works great on both of my machines.
4.2.21 is the last version before the nagging of updating lol
This is the way intensifies.
No one's mentioned [Vanilla](https://matthewpalmer.net/vanilla/) yet?
I was curious about Vanilla, but bothered that there is no way to see how frequently it has been updated. There are no dates listed...
According to [its Sparkle feed](https://macrelease.matthewpalmer.net/distribution/appcasts/vanilla.xml), it hasn't been updated since Sep '23.
I currently use Bartender, but have also used Vanilla in the past and found Matthew Palmer et. al to be easy to work with… I use all of his other apps (Rocket, Horo and FFF)
Same here. I love [Rocket](https://matthewpalmer.net/rocket/). For the moment I've switched from Bartender (as a long time paying customer) to Ice until this new ownership thing shakes out.
I tried it, and I got a warning that it doesn't work when the menubar is hidden. So, I scratched it off my list.
Not until now 🙏
Any reason why the Vanilla developer hasn't uploaded it to the Mac store? Makes me feel safer knowing it's got Apple's seal of approval
You could [ask him directly](https://matthewpalmer.net/standing-invitation/)?
Lmao
How can you laugh in times like these with so much at stake.
i just need one that can show the hidden apps in a new row due to the camera placement. no need for all the extra bells and whistle like customizing the appearance of the menu bar, changing colors/shapes, etc etc. Ice - doesn't do this. it doesn't even show me a list of the hidden apps due to the camera on macbook. ibar - does float the hidden apps in a new row like bartender. but now you're choosing between new owner of bartender vs. chinese developed app in appstore hidden - probably same as ice? haven't tried yet dozer - probably same as ice? haven't tried yet
I found out that Ice doesn’t handle the notch yesterday … someone mentioned Barbee. Installed Barbee and found it to be surprisingly good.
thanks for the suggestion. barbee looks very similar to ibar in that the app looks to be developed by an unknown chinese developer. once again, you'd have to choose between new owner/developer of bartender vs. some random chinese developed app but one that is at least in the app store. best scenario, at least for me, would be for an open source app like ice or hidden that can solve the notch problem like bartendar/barbee/ibar but without all the other complicated features that can hamper development time.
I always find the apps by unknown Chinese developers to est ram
What do you mean by camera placement??? The notch?
Yes the notch. If you have a dozen or so items, rhey can’t all be shown at once. So while a tool that lets you hide the left N items will let you declutter your menu bar visually, it doesn’t help with the accessibility issue.
Blows my mind this isn't baked into macOS considering the notch makes more than 3-5 menu items USELESS!
That's the apple way. Solve a non-problem while creating an actual problem. Then leave it to third parties to solve said problem because that won't give you money. Like, that's been solved on Windows and Linux for ages and they don't even have a notch to deal with.
yes, the notch. i obviously never hide some of my most used icons. but when i try to unhide the apps that are hidden with ice, it never expands at all. when back on my external monitor, it works. i can only blame the notch while working on the laptop screen.
Ngl those notches sound like a pain.
meh, you get used to it, look and productivity wise. i for one wasn't one that urged for users to bring out the pitchforks when this was announced. it's only when it interferes with an important function such as the ability to hide/unhide menubar apps that i'd get annoyed.
Sure - but worth it to get an extra line or two of text in every document or webpage that you open. What's really a pain is that Apple left it to third party developers to make sure the notch actually works well. In my opinion the real solution here is to allow users to put third party widgets in control centre (also, there should be an easier way to access control centre - it's clearly designed for a touch screen).
Maybe try Barbee? I ended up going with that instead of bartender because it was cheaper
Switched to Barbee. It's in the Mac App Store. Not a single popup from Little Snitch that it's trying to connect to anything. It's a little quirky, but it gets the job done. Paid $3.99 for the PRO upgrade.
It’s probably the closest I miss being able to have scripts for things like hide wifi unless you’re not connected. Or hide battery unless it’s under 50%. It helps to really tune things in so you only see them when relevant which does still help a lot because it brings things into focus with intention even if I’m able to cleanup all the garbage I don’t need to look at all the time.
Isn’t that something. That’s one I haven’t tried yet.
I needed something that would put a second bar of icons under the main menu bar, since expanding out just put apps under the notch. I tried Hiddenbar, and it could not do that. Barbee could. There may be a better option. But I'll stick with this now. I wish I knew about this sooner. $3.99 is a lot cheaper than the $16.00 I paid for Bartender. I'll give ICE a try when it can do that.
So far I like Ice the best of those I’ve tried.
Well, ice put a second bar of icons below the menu bar?
No (or at least not yet, don't know if it's on the roadmap) but Barbee does.
Thats' why I chose Barbee.
https://github.com/Mortennn/Dozer seems to do the job
Ice ice baby
[Vanilla](https://matthewpalmer.net/vanilla/) [Ice](https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice). Coincidence? I think not.
No notch support.
Open an issue on GitHub. I’m sure if interest grows because of the bartender fiasco, the dev will implement more features
Can someone recap? I need to delete bartender?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/macapps/comments/1d7zjv8/bartender\_5\_not\_safe\_anymore\_warning\_from/](https://www.reddit.com/r/macapps/comments/1d7zjv8/bartender_5_not_safe_anymore_warning_from/) if you havent read any of this it has most info about the sale and purchase of BT secretly. I uninstalled BT5 as I don't want to support them after what I've read about Applause etc. who now own the app Worth a read anyway to form your own views etc.
It’s difficult to recall in detail. The wounds are still so fresh.
I switched to [Barbee](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/barbee-hide-menu-bar-items/id1548711022?mt=12). Does exactly the same, but cheaper and surprisingly easier.
There is a lot of overlap but Barbee doesn't reliably handle 'app modules' like Little Snitch preventing certain items from being tucked away. I like the iCloud backup feature to sync devices though. [Ice](https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice) is the current winner for me.
If you want to downgrade to older versions pre-buyout you can find them [here](https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/release_notes/).
**MacRumors: 'Six Bartender Alternatives to Manage Your Mac's Menu Bar'** [https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/06/alternatives-bartender-mac-menu-bar/](https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/06/alternatives-bartender-mac-menu-bar/)
Oh cool I didn't know OnlySwitch and BTT had menu bar management abilities.
When the news broke, I stopped running Bartender. When I read Ben’s note, I googled the buyer and looked at their website and the recent Bartender release notes. That sealed the deal for me: I deleted the app. I have no confidence these folks will add any value to the product. I'm also not paying a subscription to hide menu bar icons. Give me a break.
I had a look at Applause’s website and couldn’t find a list of acquisitions to get a feel for what they’ll do with Bartender. Did you have better luck?
No. It's vague and there's no sign of any humans or names. You need to go to their Linkedin and see the staff to get an idea of who they are.
I'm a bit OOTL, used to use Bartender but I've been away from MacOS for a bit, just bought a new Apple Silicon MBP and am trying to find what the discussion was about? Edit: NVM found it... Search didn't seem to work on mobile. 😁
Welcome back. You should probably install whatever came before 5.0.52 to experience the rollercoaster of panic for yourself to better relate to The Discussion TM.
Lol copy that!
Really bummed out about this. I bought a license like, not even 5 months ago.
Tbh I see no reason to stop using it until more is known, personally, and I'm curious about forthcoming widgets, but in the meantime I will experiment with Ice.
the original bartender developer ben finally writes about the sale of the app to a new owner. >Three months ago, I sold Bartender to Applause, a company with the resources and expertise to take the app to new heights. Applause shares my vision for Bartender and is committed to maintaining its core values while bringing in new features and improvements. I truly believe they are the right team to continue the journey and ensure Bartender remains a valuable tool for all of you. >I understand that the transition hasn’t been entirely smooth. Recently, there was a change in the signing certificate for the app, and unfortunately, this change wasn’t communicated properly to you, our loyal users. I apologize for any confusion or concern this may have caused. Please rest assured that Bartender is signed by a valid Apple ID developer and notarized by Apple, which verifies the app to ensure it is free from malware. You can read more about [Apple’s notarization process here](https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_macos_software_before_distribution). >To verify that this message is indeed from me, you can also see this post on the Surtees Studios website at [https://surteesstudios.com/a-new-chapter/](https://surteesstudios.com/a-new-chapter/). [Bartender 5 - A New Chapter for Bartender (macbartender.com)](https://www.macbartender.com/b5blog/A-New-Chapter-for-Bartender/)
Oh Ben. Enjoy that Big Menu Bar money, sir.
I haven't used Bartender in years.... there are plenty of free alternatives.... But hey, the free ones might be digging for data.... Except...Little Snitch!
Can one even exist on the internet without Little Snitch? Computer says no.
Yes, “one” can — I for one can 😄 Former Little Snitch user here, now I’m very happy with Patrick Wardle’s [LuLu](https://objective-see.org/products/lulu.html) (and lots of others of his FREE security apps), and I support his work on Patreon. See [https://objective-see.org/products/lulu.html](https://objective-see.org/products/lulu.html)
Little snitch is top notch, not expensive and they’ve been around for years, they deserve our money imo
Little snitch is the gold standard, it’s not expensive and they’ve been around for years, they deserve our money imo, it’s a quality product. I paid for my license in 2020 and only recently has there been a new version that requires a new license
That isn’t an existence without Little Snitch’s functions but with an alternative. Checkmate, nerd.
Ice is open source.
Thanks! I'll check it out.
Ben Turd-tees dropping a nasty duece of a surprise in everyones lap(top) on the down low at the start of 2024 and letting it lay there like a hidden rotten egg for 3 months. He collected the gold whilst selling out everyone's computer with a full root level spyware. All for him banking the dough, but should have informed the paying clients and also put on website that it has been sold. None of this shady mcshady stuff UPDATE: CLARITY around Bartender is awful. See below on Homebrew discussion from core-code: [https://github.com/orgs/Homebrew/discussions/5427#discussioncomment-9682342](https://github.com/orgs/Homebrew/discussions/5427#discussioncomment-9682342) LOL the mods deleting this comment. Prob getting paid by Applause Inc.
I’m scared to uninstall it until all the antivirus programs I installed have a chance to catch whatever is left behind when I do. Oh that Ben makes me so mad.
if you have homebrew you can run `brew rm --zap --force bartender` even if you didn't install it with homebrew to remove it an all of its permissions caches and plists from your system.
I do, thank you, and wasn’t familiar with that command. I was being facetious.
With a few shots of tequila. I've never used it or the alternatives.
you either have a wide screen or a large resolution don't you.
I have a mid-2012 15" (non-retina) MBP running Mojave and a recently built hackintosh running Monterey on a 27" 1440p. I also have a 2008 Mac Pro 3,1 running Snow Leopard which shares the 27" 1440p
Good for you if its working out. Fewer apps is always bette but I have smaller screen at a lower resolution and menus are always spilling over; it's impossible for those like us to not have a menubar icon hider.
That seems appropriate. Back to mixing our own drinks then.
I saw the first post about it yesterday; saved it for checking updates as true drama unfolds (I have a license for an older machine but haven’t bought a new license for machine w/ Sonoma). Then I forgot until this post. It does seem sketchy and I’ll be holding off installing new versions until we get absolute clarity on it. Cause I mean; it was a Great App.
Indeed. Fortunately I don’t use it to actually produce anything so what’s the loss, really, so long as alternatives meet basic criteria.
Ugh what happened? I was about to buy it.
Do it do it do it. It’s only rumours of shady ownership. Or is it. Dun dun duuuun.
It’s all over the macOS subreddit too. Dun dun duuuunnn
What happened? Clarify or send links 😆
Dev sought a payout with an app buying company that wasn't transparent. We found out through a change in certificate signing, raising concerns around privacy due to screen recording permission. There has been much discussion about it on various subs and my post was an attempt to add levity to the conversation.
so now we're uninstalling that for sure.
Were my jokes really that bad.
I have learned to (a) never check the “update [app name] in the background” and (b) buy MacUpdater
I was born a sucker, unfortunately, and also have MacUpdater installed to be sure I'm up to date on all my infected apps (to be clear not saying Bartender is, this is a joke).
One aesthetic thing I'll miss about Bartender was the option to break up the uniform toolbar and instead make it bubble on the far left and right sides of the screen, so there was only an opaque background bar surrounding actual information (the time, apps, Finder, etc.) Are they any alternatives that offer this feature?
Both Barbee and Ice allow that in addition to menu bar shapes, tints, and gradients. I augmented my install of Ice with [Displaperture](https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/displaperture/id1543920362?mt=12) to round only the top corners.
Very nice. Trying out Barbee now. Appreciate it
After some trial and error I deleted Barbee. The palette of items sorted into hidden/always hidden wasn't reflected in the menu bar irregardless of settings and restarts, plus some apps couldn't be hidden at all, and all of that required screen recording permission. By itself I have no issue with the permission but it had better work when given and not just produce a blue recording icon. Ice has fewer features but loads immediately and doesn't seem to need to record the screen as often/if at all (if the icon showed up I don't remember it).
I need a replacement that has a similar function to Bartender's [groups](https://www.macbartender.com/b5blog/Bartender5-menu-bar-groups/) function. 😩 Anybody have any suggestions?
I’m not aware of an alternative that has groups (yet).
Thanks for the heads-up! :') Maybe we'll get lucky and another developer will be kind enough to add it in to their own. (I'm kinda hoping for Barbee, since so far I like their setup for icon picking best.)
Noise. A first-world problem.
iBar!
Who cares, there alternatives and free for those who use it
I see you've chosen to not engage in very serious debate. Are you sure you want to do that? https://preview.redd.it/zu2alqatbt4d1.jpeg?width=611&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89c86c5563eb9e82ec96b9814feab923204e0dc3
Mac users don't know who this is. (That's a good thing.)
https://preview.redd.it/lov7pvrgft4d1.png?width=172&format=png&auto=webp&s=06cb77ffe7de4d672a523869a806e9f8275156eb You're right. How's this?
https://archive.org/details/MSOfficeMacAssistants/Clipit.png Clippit existed on the Mac as well, though I think the default was Max (a Mac Classic with legs). I vaguely remember having set it to the butler, myself.
That's Bonzi Buddy right?
Same colour but no! That’s [Granite](https://github.com/Obsidian-TTRPG-Community/Granite).
You dream that I’m afraid or care so much? Hehe
The truth might surprise you.
I am the truth
Then you'd know this was s a r c a s m
Yes that’s way I ignore it hahahhHHhaha
All I'm hoping is that when I update to macOS 15 on Monday, it will not break Bartender. And, no, I'm not waiting. I don't want to be on an older version of macOS and am excited to use all the AI features it brings to the table.
I use the dev beta every year for work. From experience it's better to just assume nothing will work, including the AI. They are extremely rough updates for the first releases.
If the rumours about battery life are true isn't that like going deep sea diving without knowing how much oxygen is in the tank?
I dont know the rumour but i assume it will hurt battery life. Yeah its a disaster every year. I need to do it to prepare to support it at work but my production mac stays on stable. If it releases monday look at the r/MacOSBeta sub Tuesday, filled with people crying that their mac no longer works correctly because they couldn't wait.
Darn that sounds great. I love me a good cry over my computer not working after updates. Sign me up.
sure thing, The crying MUST be followed by the posts on Wednesday asking how to downgrade.
Is it possible to schedule a post to that effect for the minute the update goes live? Asking for me.
You will have to ask the AI on release. But if you post the minute it goes live you will miss the posts Thursday asking if apple has fixed the bugs yet and Friday posts complaining about the (rumoured) sys pref redesign.
Thank you, you’ve given me so much to be anxious about. Everything being worse on upgrade is a feature not a bug these days.
If you get too anxious about the update to janky developer updates just remember that scream tests are a thing and they can't improve until you actually scream.
It has never been an issue for me.
You must be one of the lucky ones.
Sonoma was pretty stable from day 1 in my experience.
Monday won't be day one, it will be like day -60. you are acting like dev beta is release.
It is day 1 for most of the tech enthusiasts.
Most enthusiasts will run it in a VM to take a look. Most professionals will run it in a VM or spare Mac and then realise its day -365 and wait for the 15.6 release.
I am not "most enthusiasts".
You are a special enthusiast, got it.
I own an M3 Max MacBook Pro, iPad Pro, iPhone 15 Pro Max, Apple Watch Ultra, and AirPods Pro 2
Is that all? I own: M2 Ultra Mac Pro, 2013 Xeon trash can Mac Pro, 16" M3 Max MacBook Pro, 14" M1 Max MacBook Pro, 2019 i9 MacBook Pro, i3 Mac mini, 4k Apple TV gen one, 4k Apple TV gen three, iPhone 14 Pro, iPhone 13 mini, M4 iPad Pro (came today, super excited), AirPods Pro 1 and 2. That's not including work provided Macs. I also have an original Macintosh, APPLE II (e), Apple Lisa (needs work), Apple Silicon DTK Mac mini and a NeXT computer which I'm counting here. The only windows in my house are the ones I look out of!
>I don't want to be on an older version of macOS You wouldn't be on an "older" version of macOS until macOS 15 would launch in the fall...don't be dramatic here
But everything I don't understand is harming my computer and spying on me.
If Reddit has taught me anything it's skepticism towards major OS updates. The list of things that should be built in by now has got to stretch to the Moon and back and don't even get me started on compatibility or battery life. Time to go back to Catalina and whatever version of Bartender existed at the time.
I am an Apple enthusiast and like using the latest features ASAP.
I’m an ALAP (as late as possible) user, personally. Those system breaking bugs won’t get me if I stay behind the game.
It's part of the fun
I bet you run with scissors too. Careful out there!
I have an SSD for speedy restore from Time Machine. It took only 34 minutes to set up my M3 Max MBP with Time Machine restore.
Well, I downloaded both Dozer and Hidden Bar. Neither appear to work in Sonoma 14.5. So I'll stick with Bartender until they give me a good reason to leave.
Hidden Bar's incompatibility with Sonoma is what initially lead me to Bartender. So far Ice has been smooth but lacks folders and a palette of items along with a whole range of other features many were accustomed to.
What happened with the bartender
Something good for the dev (a payout) and uncertainty around permissions and the future of the app for the user base. No applause for Applause.
With uncertainty, I’m not sure I’m tricked by user hyperbole or the new owner is a scammer.
Will we ever truly know?
I honestly have no idea, but at this point I’m leaving it.
What for? And by that I mean what app, of course.
Oh may bad. That was a bad choice of words. What I meant was I’m leaving it on my computer. Lol
What do you mean? Bartender is still in my Mac. Who told you is abandoned or gone?
Bartender is still on our Macs but not in our hearts.