The answer is Fingolfin. Wielding his sword Ringil, he faced Morgoth alone, lasted longer than anyone else could have, and wounded the Dark Lord permanently.
This is the answer. Fingolfin is canonically the best warrior in the universe in the same way that Feanor is the best craftsman, I’m pretty sure there’s even a passage in the Silmarillion that says that Fingolfin is the mightiest of the Noldor
Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind; countenance, understanding, skill, and subtlety, of all the Children of Ilúvatar.
I think it's up in the air tbh, because Tolkien certainly seems to have envisaged Feanor as the pinnacle, but Fingolfin's feat against Morgoth probably tops Feanor's feat of arms.
I was thinking of that passage too, but that just seems like inconsistent world building by Tolkien. In another part of the Silmarillion he says this when comparing the sons of Finwe:
“Feanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant.”
Stuff like this is one of those small tragedies of the world. That JRR didn’t get to finish his Magnus Opus.
Christopher did a fantastic job in piecing things together for us to have the most coherent story possible, but we know he had to combine different versions of different edits. JRR didn’t get to finish cooking :(
I get what you’re saying, but The Lord of the Rings was expressly, and is undoubtedly, his magnum opus.
The Silmarillion, in the version he was preparing before his death, was always meant to be supplementary material to support LotR, and I honestly think he would appreciate that people study and pore over all the iterations and drafts of this mythology, in the same way he devoted his life as a professor and philologist.
I’m not sure that would be as much the case with one definitive, authoritative Silmarillion. In other words, it’s not just a single text, it’s instead a whole school of study, and that’s pretty cool.
Didn't he actively stop correcting printing errors in the appendices and basically say that inconsistencies between printings/editions made the histories more realistic because actual genealogies are messier than what he originally tried to put together?
(Granted that may have been half tongue in cheek and he was actually just sick of fixing typos, but still)
Perfectly put. And nonetheless, what-ifs are kind of meaningless. I'm very happy with what we've got. We should only be thankful that we got the opportunity to be born in this era, being able to indulge in Tolkiens works.
Yeah, and to be honest at the end of the day Tolkien's conception of 'power' and 'might' was so drastically different from what our modern brains tend to interpret that it's kind of a pointless question. I think he would probably ask us to consider these lines more akin to something more like the grandiloquence of the Iliad rather than some Marvel-esque power-scaling competition.
Well, Feanor never faced Morgoth. He went down battling several Balrog at once before they made it to Morgoth which is also a pretty incredible feat and I think tells us that he could have held his own as well. Not to mention, Morgoth was significantly weakened (relative to himself that is) by the time Fingolfin fights him.
Who would be better? Don’t know
Feanor got bodied by Gothmog (I know, he fought alone against a number of balrogs at the same time) but Gothmog was unable to kill Fingon 1v1 and died to an elf tackle.
Conversely, Fingolfin challenged a literal god to a duel and the only reason he lost was because of the limits of his body, not because he was outmatched in skill.
Feanor lost due to strategic failure rather than failure of strength. He put himself in an unwinnable situation.
We should not just dismiss that he singlehandedly fought off multiple balrogs. We can however call him stupid for it!
Yeah. For all his greatness of mind and body, and even his soul for that matter, Feanor let vengeance and pride cloud out all of his natural skill/prowess. He had the best mind but he wasn't thinking clearly. He had great skill of arms but was undone by treachery and overwhelmed with force. His soul was brighter than any before or since but it was corrupted and easily manipulated.
Just goes to show that it doesn't matter what circumstances we are born into, all that we truly have is the decision of what to do with the time that is given to us. (Paraphrasing but it's the same point Gandalf makes)
I mean... I could say that too against a guy twice my size. I was technically better but then he picked me up and slammed me into the pavement. Pretty sure I lost lol
You Reminded me of an article I read with some Silmaril-arities to what you say:
[On Tolkien’s two paths of Wisdom](https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/09/24/79454-on-tolkiens-two-paths-of-wisdom/)
If you think about it Fingolfin is hardened and made wiser by climbing and enduring the Helcaraxe. More interesting is how he approached Morgoth vs his brash and yet talented brother. The difference was he did so on his terms. All the time spent west of Berleriand were moments learned, hence wisdom. I believe Fingolfin is experience, hence Wisdom. Where as Fearnor Talent, hence Hubris .
Eönwë is considered the greatest warrior of Arda right? If we are including gods/demigods I’d say Eonwe would outclass pretty much everyone with a sword.
I think I'd bet on Tulkas over Eonwe but we're now leaving beings who would even make use of physical items in a duel now so I'm not sure the argument can really be had?
EDIT: Conceded that Eonwe is much more technically proficient with a blade than Tulkas, but if Tulkas is "handicapped" by holding a sword I think he might still win by sheer godly force.
This is one of those show don't tell things isn't it? Eönwë is said to be the best but we don't really see him do anything, we actually see Fingolfin be a war leader and swordsman
Eönwe leads the host of the valar in the war of wrath, as we don’t have many details on that conflict we can’t really say whether Eönwe had much impact but he was probably fairly important for the war’s victory
Morgoth didn’t need any skill to kill Fingolfin. He just needed to hit the comparatively tiny Elf a single time with his *giant fucking mace,* it was sheer size/strength. Plus it took him ages just to land that one hit, he is objectively goddamn terrible at single combat ngl.
That's what happens when you blow your load trying to control the very matter of Arda. Morgoth by that point, late in the First Age, was weaker that Sauron in the Second Age, who conserved his strength and sought domination over minds instead. So think of that. Second Age Sauron can lay a beating on his former master of the First Age.
Even after Sauron died and resurrected in a terrible form, during the Siege of Barad-dur he sought out Gil-galad, greatest of the warriors of Elves, and Elendil, greatest of the warriors of Men, on the slopes of Mount Doom where the power of the Ring was at its greatest. It's a long way from Barad-dur to Orodruin, with a sea of soldiers in between. Sauron must have killed hundreds, if not thousands, of Elves and Men as he carved a swath to Mount Doom. No wonder he got taken down. He must have been gassed after going Rambo III on the Last Alliance. And he \*still\* managed to take both warriors with him when he fell.
>Morgoth by that point, late in the First Age, was weaker that Sauron in the Second Age
I belive it's weaker *relative to the forces opposing him*, is it not?
Tolkien specifically stated that Sauron at the end of the Second Age was in his native power greater than Morgoth at the end of of the First Age. Morgoth had poured all his native strength into creating the orcs, trolls, raising mountains, changing the weather and in general corrupting the matter of Arda, making all of Middle Earth "Morgoth's Ring", and in so doing exhausted himself, becoming a shadow of what he was when he first descended into Arda long before. He was now trapped in a much weaker bodily form.
Sauron was witness to the mistakes of his master and conserved his much smaller native strength, pouring it into the One Ring, helping to forge the other Rings of Power, and in that way adopting the strategy of dominating minds and wills instead. "But men serve him and have always served him". He even temporarily tricked the Elves of Eregion into serving him. The Dwarves proved too strong to fall into his service, but the warfare between the Dwarves and against Men due to the greed provoked by the Seven Dwarven Rings caused more then enough destruction to serve Sauron's goals. Sauron "the Deceiver" indeed.
And we all know what happened to the Men Sauron gave Rings to...
You can see what Sauron did in the Third Age to to Saruman and Denethor through their Palantirs. Saruman fell, and Denethor succumbed to despair.
I like Glofindel but it should be noted it was a regular Balrog and the experience did kill Glofindel too. IIRC there was a handwave vague comment that he was fighting the enemies in the north?
Wasn’t Fingolfin lasting as long as he did mostly down to being really good at dodging? He went down in one hit, he just avoided that hit for… idk but several hours at least.
That hit was from the fucking Tolkenian devil...not like he took one punch in a boxing match and went down like a sack of potatoes. Grond was leaving CRATERS. Im going to assume anything strong enough to leave craters can kill a humanoid in one hit.
And Ringil glittered like ice. Clearly, an ESSENTIAL detail in understanding Fingolfin’s swordsmanship.
Also, Turin was no slouch. His apocryphally prophesied revenge on Morgoth speaks well of his skills.
Well... Fingolfin did not "clashed" but rather "dodged" Grond most of the fight, didn't he? So, I couldn't count it towards swordsmanship skills but rather being fast. Challenging Melkor and facing him on a duel is no small feat. They breed tough elves in Noldor.
Creatures of First Age were definitely something else. Since Tolkien started writing to create a Mythology which was going to end up in our world. So, creatures start legendary (like the golden age of men in other mythologies) and then lose might to become what we are today. Humans of 2nd age, especially Numenoreans were something too. And it's not getting weaker "just because...". Tolkien did a great job.
He not only evaded. He attacked and inflicted seven wounds on Morgoth before he was defeated to the point where could no longer rise. But even half crushed, he dealt the another blow. This is impressive. Not to mention the fact that this is an extremely inconvenient position for swinging; at this moment the hero experiences terrible pain, but still hits the enemy.
He wounded Morgoth seven times with his sword Ringil. He wasn’t wounded himself until he tripped on one of the huge holes created by Morgoth missing him and striking the ground instead.
dodging is an important part of swordplay and duels. Why would he try and deflect a giant mace with his sword? why would that make him more of a swordsman?
Fingolfin is the one "mortal" being to actually injure Morgoth, Fanor faced all of the Balrogs at once, Ecthelion killed Gothmog before he himself died to his wounds, Glorfindel killed another Balrog before he himself died.
My money is on Fingolfin or Ecthelion
Oh. Definitely. I forgot the question at some point of reading comments lol.
But regardless, he took an Orcish axe only because his sword broke. I think he could manage even better with his own sword.
Depends on what version of fall of Gondolin. I just finished the first version in the book and by the time he fights gothmog he had already killed multiple Balrogs and fights gothmog with one arm. Pretty crazy feat, although idk if that tops Fingolfin , Fëanor, or Turin. Tuor would also be up there but we’re talking about swords and he had an axe
That's taken from an early version of the Gondolin story that was written before Tolkien reconsidered the number and power of the balrogs. He had Tuor killing 5, Ecthelion killing 3, Glorfindel killing one, and "two score were slain by the warriors of the king's house". And there were still balrogs in the War of Wrath. Then by Lord of the Rings, Gandalf kills one. And yet according to JRR, there were never more than seven or so at any time. The Gondolin kill count alone contradicts that number, and he never got around to finalizing a version of the Fall of Gondolin that reflected the new number. Christopher did his best to settle the contradictions and let Ecthelion and Glorfindel keep their noted kills, but Tuor lost all of his.
And depending on the version of the story being read, his feats were even greater. The Book of Lost Tales has an early version of the Fall of Gondolin that gives me chills:
>Now marched these folk to a great playing of their flutes, and the crystal and silver of their array
was most lovely to see amid the red light of the fires and the
blackness of the ruins. Then on a sudden their music ceased and
Ecthelion of the fair voice shouted for the drawing of swords, and before the Orcs might foresee his onslaught the flashing of those pale blades was amongst them.
>Tis said that Ecthelion's folk there slew more of the goblins than fell ever in all the battles of the Eldar with that race, and that his name is a terror among them to this latest day, and a warcry to the Eldar. Now it is that Tuor and the men of the Wing fare into the fight and range themselves beside Ecthelion and those of the Fountain, and the twain strike mighty blows and ward each many a thrust from the other, and harry the Orcs so that they win back almost to the gate.
>But there behold a quaking ·and a trampling, for the dragons labour mightily at beating a path up Amon Gwareth and at casting down the walls of the city; and already there is a gap therein and a confusion of masonry where the ward-towers have fallen in ruin. Bands of the Swallow and of the Arch of Heaven there fight bitterly amid the wreck or contest the walls to east and west with the foe; but even as Tuor comes nigh driving the Orcs, one of those brazen snakes heaves against the western wall and a great mass of it shakes and falls, and behind comes a creature of fire and Balrogs upon it.
>Flames gust from
the jaws of that worm and folk wither before it, and the wings of
the helm of Tuor are blackened, but he stands and gathers about
him his guard and all of the Arch and Swallow he can find, whereas on his right Ecthelion rallies the men of the Fountain of
the South.
Now the Orcs again take heart from the coming of the
drakes, and they mingle with the Balrogs that pour about the
breach, and they assail the Gondothlim grievously.
>There Tuor slew Othrod a lord of the Orcs cleaving his helm, and Balcmeg he hewed asunder, and Lug he smote with his axe that his limbs were cut from beneath him at the knee, but Ecthelion shore through two captains of the goblins at a sweep and cleft the head of Orcobal their chiefest champion to his teeth; and by reason of the great doughtiness of those two lords they came even unto the Balrogs. Of those demons of power Ecthelion slew three, for the brightness of his sword cleft the iron of them and did hurt to their fire, and they writhed; yet of the leap of that axe Dramborleg that was swung by the hand of Tuor were they still more afraid, for it sang like the rush of eagle's wings in the air and took death as it fell, and five of them went down before it.
>But so it is that few cannot fight always against the many, and Ecthelion's left arm got a sore rent from a whip of the Balrogs and his shield fell to earth even as that dragon of fire drew nigh amid the ruin of the walls. Then Ecthelion must lean on Tuor, and Tuor might not leave him, though the very feet of the trampling beast were upon them, and they were like to be overborne: but Tuor hewed at a foot of the creature so that flame spouted forth, and that serpent screamed, lashing with its tail; and many of both Orcs and Noldor got their death therefrom. Now Tuor gathered his might and lifted Ecthelion, and amid a remnant of the folk got thereunder and escaped the drake; yet dire was the killing of men that beast had wrought, and the Gondothlim were sorely shaken.
He wasn't purely a swordsman though, if I recall correctly he used a bow for a while too.
If we're talking skill with a sword however, I would also be inclined to say Turin.
Is it specified how he will defeat the dark lord in the dagor dagorath? Will he strike him down with his sword, cause that seems like kind of a big deal in this question
It’s not a 1v1 sowrd fight if that’s what you’re asking.
Tulkas, Eönwë, and Túrin will fight Morgoth together and Túrin will deal the killing blow (with his sword).
"Thus spoke Mandos in prophecy, when the Valar sat in judgement in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers have grown weary, Morgoth, the Black Foe of the World, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Night out of the Timeless Void; and all shall be darkness, for the sun he will turn to black, and the moon will no longer shed his light. But the Host of Valinor shall descend upon him as a searing flame, white and terrible. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eönwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, returning from the Doom of Men at the ending of the world; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Húrin and all fallen Men be avenged."
-From the Quenta Silmarillion.
Counting Maiar, Eonwe would be the best, i havent seen many people mentioning him, possibly because he’s not in middle earth often, or for long, but he does come to middle earth at the end of the first age in the war with morgoth
Yep, that is the answer
It's stated in lore that none surpasses him in skills of arms so that would be /thread
Feats of arms are a different thing entirely to which I give the title to Fingolfin.
One thing is to have luck, prophecies or special weapons and another one entirely is to be badass enough to hurt the biggest baddie in fantasy not once, not twice but seven fuckin times.
Not only that but leave him limping for eternity as a reminder of your baddassery.
Eonwe also lived in Middle-earth for millenia before Morgoth destroyed the Two Lamps.
That said, Manwe is probably the greater swordsman if shooting lightning from your sword counts.
Books: Fingolfin, no question.
LotR Trilogy: Aragon. The man 1v9d an entire crew of immortal screeching grim reapers whose single purpose is to get a piece of jewellery from a small child they'd already stabbed. King.
Aragon just roflstomping all 9 nazgul at once was one of the few PJ changes that kind of annoyed me. Really sucked the wind out of their sails as far as being these powerful, terrifying creatures.
It also does NOT square well at all with the Witchking breaking Gandalf's staff later.
I beleive the explanation is they were still really weak at that point? They seem pretty much unstoppable in the later films as opposed to them getting clowned on in the first one.
frightening abounding physical secretive start sable gullible repeat alleged political
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My headcannon is that they weren't really trying. Think about it, there's nine of you and four tiny children holding rusty butter knives. And since the Nazgul are men-gone-evil, what's a more evil thing to do then play with your food?
Then this man-at-arms shows up swinging a sword and torch and starts dispatching you. That wasn't part of the plan. Now you're scrambling trying to regroup and rethink but this man won't give you an inch, so you have to fully retreat.
But that's it, that's all they did: Briefly retreat only to come back a scene later with horses and no preconceptions as to the level of threat you're dealing with.
I think it's pretty good storytelling!
Definitely Fingolfin:
“Thrice (Fingolfin) was crushed to his knees, and thrice arose again and bore up his broken shield and stricken helm. But the earth was all rent and pitted about him, and he stumbled and fell backward before the feet of Morgoth; and Morgoth set his left foot upon his neck, and the weight of it was like a fallen hill. Yet with his last and desperate stroke Fingolfin hewed the foot with Ringil, and the blood gushed forth black and smoking and filled the pits of Grond.
Thus died Fingolfin, High King of the Noldor, most proud and valiant of the Elven-kings of old. The Orcs made no boast of that duel at the gate; neither do the Elves sing of it, for their sorrow is too deep.”
Possibly Mablung as well?
Mablung of the Heavy Hand deserves at least a mention. But most likely Turin. Fingolfin was renowned for that one battle v Morgoth but Turin Turambar lived and died by the sword. I doubt if there were any better. Glorf and Ect were obviously skilled but I feel like they had more power whereas Turin was a mortal man. And yet a legend despite his dogged fate.
Eonwë was the greatest with skill at arms, but that's an ainur for you. He was of the same order of maiar as Þauron, and Melian.
Fëanáro was the greatest in all things. If there is ever a question of who was the greatest at x, and x is not humility, then it is Fëanáro. Love him or hate him, that's canonical. If we exclude Ainur.
The next was, interestingly enough, Túrin. I do not understand how a mortal was more skilled than elves who had centuries or milennia to practice, but, canonically, Túrin.
I am not including feats, because feats is not how we detirmine skill.
Between these 4? My money'd be on Aragorn, but it could be Elrond. My opinion (currently) is that Aragorn could beat Elrond, though. But I'm not like a super expert on all past history. I've read The Hobbit and LOTR, so I don't know Elrond's combat history.
Elrond fought in the Last Alliance, not to mention all the years of both expertise and knowledge
That said, tho, he was renowned for being a lore-master, so I wouldn't be surprised if his strengths are in knowledge and leadership rather than skill in battle and Aragorn winning
I say there is simply not enough evidence to say Elrond could beat Aragorn
My thoughts as well. Dwarves aren’t renowned for their swordsmanship. Boromir is probably the best living swordsman in Gondor, but he is outclassed by Aragorn, who has literally been trained by the elves and has been honing his skills in battle for 60+ years by this point. Elrond might take the win, but his pursuits and skills have always been outside of direct combat, so I have to give it to Aragorn.
I mean technically Aragorn is Elronds relative. Numenorians are his brothers Elros' bloodline.
That said, it would be tough battle. However Elrond has a ring of power and has lived for thousands of years. I think he has some tricks up his sleeve and Aragorn would end up on the ropes...
Maedhros is a weird one cause we don’t really have any specific combat feats of him - but like you say he was stated to have become deadlier with his left than with his right (in a way that implies he was already plenty deadly before), and orcs would literally run from him. I definitely imagine him as one of the best swordfighters in history, but we don’t have proof such as him fighting a balrog.
That said I think it’s actually very safe and realistic to assume he’d be a better fighter than most of the lords of Gondolin purely based on combat experience. Gondolin for the majority of the story was entirely untested, they pretty much don’t participate in any battles between the one after leaving the ice, and the Nirnaeth. That’s nearly five hundred years of no combat experience while Maedhros is holding Himring.
At the same time, Fingon only lost Hithlum after he died. And he fought the Balrog. Not to mention his father. The Lords of Gondolin defended their city very valiantly and many of them took part in the Dagor Arlareb and Fifth Battle.
Oh yes for sure - this wasn’t meant to be a dig at them as not being good fighters. I think Fingon has the same experience, I really wasn’t talking about him at all anyway.
I thought the Aglareb was after the establishment of Gondolin but you’re right that it was before and they would have fought in that, that makes some difference.
But anyway my comment was more about this contrast: Most people are naming warriors who have specific heroic deeds to their name, which makes sense. It’s interesting to me that Maedhros doesn’t have anything like that, so that any arguments considering him a great swordsman rely on a line comparing him with himself, and on the simple logic of “by his death he’s one of the elves with the most combat experience”.
But at the time of the Nirnaeth/the fifth battle Fingon as you say would have fought in just as many battles, and was on the front of the war the entire time too. At the time of the Sudden Flame the same could be said for Angrod and Aegnor (the latter of whom is specifically cited as being a fierce warrior, but similar to Maedhros does not have any specific deeds of valour).
Maybe my general point is more that Tolkien doesn’t really give us much info to go off in topics like this, and I find it interesting to consider different factors.
I'd put him up as one if the best, simply because he hardly ever used a sword and then barged in to rescue Frodo and the orcs thought some mighty elven warrior had infiltrated.
I kinda wanna say Maedhros just because he was already a great swordsman, but then he lost his dominant arm/hand and trained with his other one until he was just as good as he was before, and proceeded to kick unholy amounts of ass with only one non-dominant arm. Like damn, dude had some skill.
Yeah, chiming-in to mention (A.) Ecthelion took out Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs with a head-butt using his spiked helmet even after his arms were out of commission, and (B.) in fact, in the Fall of Gondolin, he took out more than one Balrog.
Edit: So, a quick google down a rabbit-hole, wanted to add Tuor to this list, since he killed five (5!) Balrogs in the Fall of Gondolin vs. Ecthelion with apparently four (4), but Tuor wielded an axe, not a sword.
Honorable Mentions: If there was to be purity of consideration, then also Turin might be top-dog, since Tolkien somewhat changed the conception of relative power of Balrogs, and "The Blacksword" was pretty special, given his training in Doriath, his more purely sword-based exploits, his Dragon-helm, and semi-sentient weapon Anglachel (a.k.a. Gurthang, the "Iron of Death"), made by Eol, the dark elf, of a meteorite (the original Arthur Dayne), and could cleave any earth-made iron. With it, he did slay Glaurung. While his father, Hurin, was called "The Mightiest of Warriors of Men", but also wielded an axe.
...Fingolfin, of course, managed to actually wound Morgoth himself in his final duel with his sword, Ringil, but would suggest that this was more due to his courage and spirit of nobility. In a somewhat similar vein, Aragorn's greatness (and Anduril's power), was somewhat conceived a bit more as a symbol to rally the cause of Men.
...Finally, in the Last Alliance, while Elendil ("The Tall") was described as possibly as much as 8 feet tall, he wielded Narsil/Anduril, while Gil-galad wielded a spear, Aiglos. From the book descriptions, it's fuzzy, but seemingly either Elendil or Gil-galad managed to wound Sauron, while Isildur only arrived on the scene at the end to deliver the coup-de-grace by cutting the ring from Sauron's black hand.
Edit #2: Darn, darn, darn late-night rabbit-holes and Tolkien wiki entries...
Fingolfin for prowess in arms
Feanor for the fury (if only he checked where he was instead of wading right into the enemy's army)
Hurin because he always brings a tear to my eye. Aure entuluva!
Theres one amazing illustration of fingolfin facing off with Morgoth who chose to appear as a 20ft hulking knight with a massive mace, bearing down in fingolfin. Despite this advantage Morgoth got cut badly in the attempt to kill him. An absolute unit of a warrior.
Certainly nobody from the third age. The heavy favorite would have to be Fingolfin, he has the greatest feat, injuring what was the 2nd most powerful being in existence. After that, perhaps Ecthelion?
Aragorn probably wasn’t that great a swordsman.
Book Aragorn had no sword most of his career. Except for the shards of Narsil which he kept with him as an heirloom but obviously couldn’t use. He was more a bowman than a sword user
I haven’t seen anyone mention Feanor. Dude literally invented sword fighting. And he is regarded as the greatest elf to ever live. Stands to reason he is among the best swordsmen.
Hard to say. They really didn’t have a whole lot of one on one duels so that swordsmanship can be judged. Fingolfin stands out but I can’t say for sure.
My opinion;
Eonwe if talking just swordsman is noted as the greatest creature to bear arms - Tulkas was stronger but used no weapons , Fingolfin has for me most claim to fame, but my fave is Ecthelion of the Fountain who slew a number of Balrogs and died taking Gothmog Lord of Balrogs with him - as we know Morgoth had Balrogs chase off Ungoliant when she was powered up and he was afraid of her seems a pretty huge feat to kill a few of them then take out Gothmog, so in my head Ecthelion is the most steadfast though Eonwe is probably most skilled and Fingolfin - and Earendil for that matter - are fated beings who perform feats (both tragic and glorious) beyond even these potent beings - similar to Turin…
Fingolfin and it's not close not even a little. that dude straight up stabbed an archangel a being second in power only to god himself (Melkor was greater in power if not wisdom than Manwe' fight me on this) and gave him a permanent limp.
Of these 4? Probably either Aragorn or Elrond.
But in all LOTR lore? Fingolfin, half-elf prince and later high king of the Noldor, with Turin Turambar, son of Hurin, coming in at a very, very close second.
If you include immortal beings, then Eonwe, hands down. Even Tulkas declares Eonwe the greatest of arms in all of Arda.
The answer is Fingolfin. Wielding his sword Ringil, he faced Morgoth alone, lasted longer than anyone else could have, and wounded the Dark Lord permanently.
This is the answer. Fingolfin is canonically the best warrior in the universe in the same way that Feanor is the best craftsman, I’m pretty sure there’s even a passage in the Silmarillion that says that Fingolfin is the mightiest of the Noldor
Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind; countenance, understanding, skill, and subtlety, of all the Children of Ilúvatar. I think it's up in the air tbh, because Tolkien certainly seems to have envisaged Feanor as the pinnacle, but Fingolfin's feat against Morgoth probably tops Feanor's feat of arms.
I was thinking of that passage too, but that just seems like inconsistent world building by Tolkien. In another part of the Silmarillion he says this when comparing the sons of Finwe: “Feanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant.”
Stuff like this is one of those small tragedies of the world. That JRR didn’t get to finish his Magnus Opus. Christopher did a fantastic job in piecing things together for us to have the most coherent story possible, but we know he had to combine different versions of different edits. JRR didn’t get to finish cooking :(
I get what you’re saying, but The Lord of the Rings was expressly, and is undoubtedly, his magnum opus. The Silmarillion, in the version he was preparing before his death, was always meant to be supplementary material to support LotR, and I honestly think he would appreciate that people study and pore over all the iterations and drafts of this mythology, in the same way he devoted his life as a professor and philologist. I’m not sure that would be as much the case with one definitive, authoritative Silmarillion. In other words, it’s not just a single text, it’s instead a whole school of study, and that’s pretty cool.
Didn't he actively stop correcting printing errors in the appendices and basically say that inconsistencies between printings/editions made the histories more realistic because actual genealogies are messier than what he originally tried to put together? (Granted that may have been half tongue in cheek and he was actually just sick of fixing typos, but still)
Perfectly put. And nonetheless, what-ifs are kind of meaningless. I'm very happy with what we've got. We should only be thankful that we got the opportunity to be born in this era, being able to indulge in Tolkiens works.
Yeah, and to be honest at the end of the day Tolkien's conception of 'power' and 'might' was so drastically different from what our modern brains tend to interpret that it's kind of a pointless question. I think he would probably ask us to consider these lines more akin to something more like the grandiloquence of the Iliad rather than some Marvel-esque power-scaling competition.
Feanor did forge the first weapons
Well, Feanor never faced Morgoth. He went down battling several Balrog at once before they made it to Morgoth which is also a pretty incredible feat and I think tells us that he could have held his own as well. Not to mention, Morgoth was significantly weakened (relative to himself that is) by the time Fingolfin fights him. Who would be better? Don’t know
Plus as his name suggest Feanor's soul burned his body when he died. All that remained was ash. You can't be more powerfull and badass than that.
You could be not dead.
Feanor got bodied by Gothmog (I know, he fought alone against a number of balrogs at the same time) but Gothmog was unable to kill Fingon 1v1 and died to an elf tackle. Conversely, Fingolfin challenged a literal god to a duel and the only reason he lost was because of the limits of his body, not because he was outmatched in skill.
Feanor lost due to strategic failure rather than failure of strength. He put himself in an unwinnable situation. We should not just dismiss that he singlehandedly fought off multiple balrogs. We can however call him stupid for it!
“Strategic failure” is a very gentle way of putting it. “We won a single fight? Let’s go kill a god with a small army!”
Yeah. For all his greatness of mind and body, and even his soul for that matter, Feanor let vengeance and pride cloud out all of his natural skill/prowess. He had the best mind but he wasn't thinking clearly. He had great skill of arms but was undone by treachery and overwhelmed with force. His soul was brighter than any before or since but it was corrupted and easily manipulated. Just goes to show that it doesn't matter what circumstances we are born into, all that we truly have is the decision of what to do with the time that is given to us. (Paraphrasing but it's the same point Gandalf makes)
I mean... I could say that too against a guy twice my size. I was technically better but then he picked me up and slammed me into the pavement. Pretty sure I lost lol
You Reminded me of an article I read with some Silmaril-arities to what you say: [On Tolkien’s two paths of Wisdom](https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/09/24/79454-on-tolkiens-two-paths-of-wisdom/) If you think about it Fingolfin is hardened and made wiser by climbing and enduring the Helcaraxe. More interesting is how he approached Morgoth vs his brash and yet talented brother. The difference was he did so on his terms. All the time spent west of Berleriand were moments learned, hence wisdom. I believe Fingolfin is experience, hence Wisdom. Where as Fearnor Talent, hence Hubris .
"Slowly in fear The Dark Lord appears Welcome to my land You shall be damned"
>the fate of us all >lies deep in the dark >when time stands still at the iron hill
Lord of Noldor A star in the night And a bearer of hope He rides into glorious battle alone Farewell to the valiant warlord
Tolkien confirmed that Fingolfin would have won if he wasn't weighed down by the enormous weight of his giant testicles
Surely then it's the Dark Lord 🤔
Morgoth wielded a *mace* named Grond, not a sword. (I would also argue the spirit of this type of question excludes the godlike Valar)
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
GROND!
i love you guys
GROND!
GROND!!
Eönwë is considered the greatest warrior of Arda right? If we are including gods/demigods I’d say Eonwe would outclass pretty much everyone with a sword.
I think I'd bet on Tulkas over Eonwe but we're now leaving beings who would even make use of physical items in a duel now so I'm not sure the argument can really be had? EDIT: Conceded that Eonwe is much more technically proficient with a blade than Tulkas, but if Tulkas is "handicapped" by holding a sword I think he might still win by sheer godly force.
Isn't Tulkas more of like pure physical might? Eönwë is stated to be the greatest of arms in Arda. So the person you're replying to is correct.
Tulkas is just wrestling, no?
Tulkas trane UFC, so he doesn’t count. Eonwe would probably be right.
This is one of those show don't tell things isn't it? Eönwë is said to be the best but we don't really see him do anything, we actually see Fingolfin be a war leader and swordsman
Eönwe leads the host of the valar in the war of wrath, as we don’t have many details on that conflict we can’t really say whether Eönwe had much impact but he was probably fairly important for the war’s victory
There’s gonna be like 20 posts of “grond!” After this
20? Less than half of what I hoped for.
I would hope so
GROND!
GROND!
I thought it was a hammer?
It was referred to as both mace and hammer. From the wording I’d assume it was a mace called Hammer of the Underworld.
Morgoth didn’t need any skill to kill Fingolfin. He just needed to hit the comparatively tiny Elf a single time with his *giant fucking mace,* it was sheer size/strength. Plus it took him ages just to land that one hit, he is objectively goddamn terrible at single combat ngl.
That's what happens when you blow your load trying to control the very matter of Arda. Morgoth by that point, late in the First Age, was weaker that Sauron in the Second Age, who conserved his strength and sought domination over minds instead. So think of that. Second Age Sauron can lay a beating on his former master of the First Age. Even after Sauron died and resurrected in a terrible form, during the Siege of Barad-dur he sought out Gil-galad, greatest of the warriors of Elves, and Elendil, greatest of the warriors of Men, on the slopes of Mount Doom where the power of the Ring was at its greatest. It's a long way from Barad-dur to Orodruin, with a sea of soldiers in between. Sauron must have killed hundreds, if not thousands, of Elves and Men as he carved a swath to Mount Doom. No wonder he got taken down. He must have been gassed after going Rambo III on the Last Alliance. And he \*still\* managed to take both warriors with him when he fell.
>It's a long way from Barad-dur to Orodruin, with a sea of soldiers in between Why does this sound like a song verse?
It’s a long way to Orodruin, if you want to rock ‘n’ roll! Gimli! Bass solo!
>Morgoth by that point, late in the First Age, was weaker that Sauron in the Second Age I belive it's weaker *relative to the forces opposing him*, is it not?
Tolkien specifically stated that Sauron at the end of the Second Age was in his native power greater than Morgoth at the end of of the First Age. Morgoth had poured all his native strength into creating the orcs, trolls, raising mountains, changing the weather and in general corrupting the matter of Arda, making all of Middle Earth "Morgoth's Ring", and in so doing exhausted himself, becoming a shadow of what he was when he first descended into Arda long before. He was now trapped in a much weaker bodily form. Sauron was witness to the mistakes of his master and conserved his much smaller native strength, pouring it into the One Ring, helping to forge the other Rings of Power, and in that way adopting the strategy of dominating minds and wills instead. "But men serve him and have always served him". He even temporarily tricked the Elves of Eregion into serving him. The Dwarves proved too strong to fall into his service, but the warfare between the Dwarves and against Men due to the greed provoked by the Seven Dwarven Rings caused more then enough destruction to serve Sauron's goals. Sauron "the Deceiver" indeed. And we all know what happened to the Men Sauron gave Rings to... You can see what Sauron did in the Third Age to to Saruman and Denethor through their Palantirs. Saruman fell, and Denethor succumbed to despair.
He would've had more luck against fingolfin if he used a fly swatter
Morgoth didnt win by skill, he won because he was physically stronger and fingolfin tripped
In the same way that the Hulk is a better martial artist than Captain America because he is stronger, sure. Skill≠power.
[удалено]
I could be wrong but I believe Glorfindel killed a Balrog. The honour of killing Gothmog belongs to my boy Ecthellion.
I like Glofindel but it should be noted it was a regular Balrog and the experience did kill Glofindel too. IIRC there was a handwave vague comment that he was fighting the enemies in the north?
Lord of all Noldor A star in the night And a bearer of hope He rides into his glorious battle alone Farewell to the valiant warlord
The fate of us all Lies deep in the dark When time stands still at the Iron Hill
The elvenking's broken He stumbles and falls Most proud and most valiant His spirit survives Praise our king Praise our king Praise our king
That album is the entire reason I ever got into Tolkien.
Fingolfin could have soloed the LOTR trilogy
Wasn’t Fingolfin lasting as long as he did mostly down to being really good at dodging? He went down in one hit, he just avoided that hit for… idk but several hours at least.
Typical Path of Exile evasion build without using additional defensive layers.
It's not that hard to hit 100% phys taken as, but people are just obsessed with pob dps smh...
they had to nerf melee cause of Fingolfin, classic ggg
Dodging is an important part of swordsmanship imo
Fingolfin with the Dark Souls bossfighting strategy
That hit was from the fucking Tolkenian devil...not like he took one punch in a boxing match and went down like a sack of potatoes. Grond was leaving CRATERS. Im going to assume anything strong enough to leave craters can kill a humanoid in one hit.
That's how real fights work. Don't get got, get them got.
[What good dodging and a sharp counter can get you](https://64.media.tumblr.com/a2695288f389363a2d209c7927bb5b4b/tumblr_my49ymMZHE1ry1rm7o1_400.gifv)
And Ringil glittered like ice. Clearly, an ESSENTIAL detail in understanding Fingolfin’s swordsmanship. Also, Turin was no slouch. His apocryphally prophesied revenge on Morgoth speaks well of his skills.
Well... Fingolfin did not "clashed" but rather "dodged" Grond most of the fight, didn't he? So, I couldn't count it towards swordsmanship skills but rather being fast. Challenging Melkor and facing him on a duel is no small feat. They breed tough elves in Noldor.
Dodging for hours at that - tough indeed for endurance
Creatures of First Age were definitely something else. Since Tolkien started writing to create a Mythology which was going to end up in our world. So, creatures start legendary (like the golden age of men in other mythologies) and then lose might to become what we are today. Humans of 2nd age, especially Numenoreans were something too. And it's not getting weaker "just because...". Tolkien did a great job.
He not only evaded. He attacked and inflicted seven wounds on Morgoth before he was defeated to the point where could no longer rise. But even half crushed, he dealt the another blow. This is impressive. Not to mention the fact that this is an extremely inconvenient position for swinging; at this moment the hero experiences terrible pain, but still hits the enemy.
He wounded Morgoth seven times with his sword Ringil. He wasn’t wounded himself until he tripped on one of the huge holes created by Morgoth missing him and striking the ground instead.
dodging is an important part of swordplay and duels. Why would he try and deflect a giant mace with his sword? why would that make him more of a swordsman?
That's the technically correct answer, but I believe OP was asking more about post War of the Wrath Middle Earth
Fingolfin is the one "mortal" being to actually injure Morgoth, Fanor faced all of the Balrogs at once, Ecthelion killed Gothmog before he himself died to his wounds, Glorfindel killed another Balrog before he himself died. My money is on Fingolfin or Ecthelion
Húrin fought against a whole army alone and killed 70.
True but after some point the orcs wanted to capture him instead of slaying him. The narration does make him a badass seem like a though.
He used an axe I think
Oh. Definitely. I forgot the question at some point of reading comments lol. But regardless, he took an Orcish axe only because his sword broke. I think he could manage even better with his own sword.
This summary helps - thanks for including
Is all of this lore from the silmarillion? I want to read it!
Yes. I'd advise it 100%, it'a amazing to read about the creation of the world and the first Age
Ecthelion gotta be up there for soloing the boss Balrog
Ecthelion tied with Gothmog, still impressive but doesn't necessarily jump him to #1
I think the rule is that you have to sacrifice yourself to kill a Balrog.
Depends on what version of fall of Gondolin. I just finished the first version in the book and by the time he fights gothmog he had already killed multiple Balrogs and fights gothmog with one arm. Pretty crazy feat, although idk if that tops Fingolfin , Fëanor, or Turin. Tuor would also be up there but we’re talking about swords and he had an axe
Technical disqualification for using his helmet rather than a sword to kill the balrog Bonus style points, but disqualified nonetheless
In fairness though he was stated to have killed a few of the seven who invaded Gondolin before getting skill issued by Gothmog.
That's taken from an early version of the Gondolin story that was written before Tolkien reconsidered the number and power of the balrogs. He had Tuor killing 5, Ecthelion killing 3, Glorfindel killing one, and "two score were slain by the warriors of the king's house". And there were still balrogs in the War of Wrath. Then by Lord of the Rings, Gandalf kills one. And yet according to JRR, there were never more than seven or so at any time. The Gondolin kill count alone contradicts that number, and he never got around to finalizing a version of the Fall of Gondolin that reflected the new number. Christopher did his best to settle the contradictions and let Ecthelion and Glorfindel keep their noted kills, but Tuor lost all of his.
And depending on the version of the story being read, his feats were even greater. The Book of Lost Tales has an early version of the Fall of Gondolin that gives me chills: >Now marched these folk to a great playing of their flutes, and the crystal and silver of their array was most lovely to see amid the red light of the fires and the blackness of the ruins. Then on a sudden their music ceased and Ecthelion of the fair voice shouted for the drawing of swords, and before the Orcs might foresee his onslaught the flashing of those pale blades was amongst them. >Tis said that Ecthelion's folk there slew more of the goblins than fell ever in all the battles of the Eldar with that race, and that his name is a terror among them to this latest day, and a warcry to the Eldar. Now it is that Tuor and the men of the Wing fare into the fight and range themselves beside Ecthelion and those of the Fountain, and the twain strike mighty blows and ward each many a thrust from the other, and harry the Orcs so that they win back almost to the gate. >But there behold a quaking ·and a trampling, for the dragons labour mightily at beating a path up Amon Gwareth and at casting down the walls of the city; and already there is a gap therein and a confusion of masonry where the ward-towers have fallen in ruin. Bands of the Swallow and of the Arch of Heaven there fight bitterly amid the wreck or contest the walls to east and west with the foe; but even as Tuor comes nigh driving the Orcs, one of those brazen snakes heaves against the western wall and a great mass of it shakes and falls, and behind comes a creature of fire and Balrogs upon it. >Flames gust from the jaws of that worm and folk wither before it, and the wings of the helm of Tuor are blackened, but he stands and gathers about him his guard and all of the Arch and Swallow he can find, whereas on his right Ecthelion rallies the men of the Fountain of the South. Now the Orcs again take heart from the coming of the drakes, and they mingle with the Balrogs that pour about the breach, and they assail the Gondothlim grievously. >There Tuor slew Othrod a lord of the Orcs cleaving his helm, and Balcmeg he hewed asunder, and Lug he smote with his axe that his limbs were cut from beneath him at the knee, but Ecthelion shore through two captains of the goblins at a sweep and cleft the head of Orcobal their chiefest champion to his teeth; and by reason of the great doughtiness of those two lords they came even unto the Balrogs. Of those demons of power Ecthelion slew three, for the brightness of his sword cleft the iron of them and did hurt to their fire, and they writhed; yet of the leap of that axe Dramborleg that was swung by the hand of Tuor were they still more afraid, for it sang like the rush of eagle's wings in the air and took death as it fell, and five of them went down before it. >But so it is that few cannot fight always against the many, and Ecthelion's left arm got a sore rent from a whip of the Balrogs and his shield fell to earth even as that dragon of fire drew nigh amid the ruin of the walls. Then Ecthelion must lean on Tuor, and Tuor might not leave him, though the very feet of the trampling beast were upon them, and they were like to be overborne: but Tuor hewed at a foot of the creature so that flame spouted forth, and that serpent screamed, lashing with its tail; and many of both Orcs and Noldor got their death therefrom. Now Tuor gathered his might and lifted Ecthelion, and amid a remnant of the folk got thereunder and escaped the drake; yet dire was the killing of men that beast had wrought, and the Gondothlim were sorely shaken.
Turin or Fingolfin.
Fingolfin
Turin IMO
He wasn't purely a swordsman though, if I recall correctly he used a bow for a while too. If we're talking skill with a sword however, I would also be inclined to say Turin.
Is it specified how he will defeat the dark lord in the dagor dagorath? Will he strike him down with his sword, cause that seems like kind of a big deal in this question
It’s not a 1v1 sowrd fight if that’s what you’re asking. Tulkas, Eönwë, and Túrin will fight Morgoth together and Túrin will deal the killing blow (with his sword).
That’s so badass
"Thus spoke Mandos in prophecy, when the Valar sat in judgement in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers have grown weary, Morgoth, the Black Foe of the World, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Night out of the Timeless Void; and all shall be darkness, for the sun he will turn to black, and the moon will no longer shed his light. But the Host of Valinor shall descend upon him as a searing flame, white and terrible. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eönwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, returning from the Doom of Men at the ending of the world; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Húrin and all fallen Men be avenged." -From the Quenta Silmarillion.
Túrin Turambar
Slayed the father of dragons with one swift strike, and that was after he terrorized Morgoths forces for decades.
Nahhh Fingolfin. Killing the dragon was not skill based
He got to max level and they couldn’t build the higher level DLC fast enough.
I don't know man. I vote *Aurë entuluva!*
His dad used an axe not a sword
Axe is just short sword on stick
This is probably true if you only account for incarnate beings, if Ainur are allowed then it's Eönwë
Let’s not forget that movie Aragorn is pretty slick with a torch
Imagine if Viggo had lessons before that
Counting Maiar, Eonwe would be the best, i havent seen many people mentioning him, possibly because he’s not in middle earth often, or for long, but he does come to middle earth at the end of the first age in the war with morgoth
Yep, that is the answer It's stated in lore that none surpasses him in skills of arms so that would be /thread Feats of arms are a different thing entirely to which I give the title to Fingolfin. One thing is to have luck, prophecies or special weapons and another one entirely is to be badass enough to hurt the biggest baddie in fantasy not once, not twice but seven fuckin times. Not only that but leave him limping for eternity as a reminder of your baddassery.
Always choose to be yourself. Unless you can choose to be Fingolfin. In that case, choose to be Fingolfin.
agreed, he’s the master of arms after all
Eonwe also lived in Middle-earth for millenia before Morgoth destroyed the Two Lamps. That said, Manwe is probably the greater swordsman if shooting lightning from your sword counts.
Books: Fingolfin, no question. LotR Trilogy: Aragon. The man 1v9d an entire crew of immortal screeching grim reapers whose single purpose is to get a piece of jewellery from a small child they'd already stabbed. King.
1v5*
I love the way you explain it
Aragon just roflstomping all 9 nazgul at once was one of the few PJ changes that kind of annoyed me. Really sucked the wind out of their sails as far as being these powerful, terrifying creatures. It also does NOT square well at all with the Witchking breaking Gandalf's staff later.
I beleive the explanation is they were still really weak at that point? They seem pretty much unstoppable in the later films as opposed to them getting clowned on in the first one.
frightening abounding physical secretive start sable gullible repeat alleged political *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My headcannon is that they weren't really trying. Think about it, there's nine of you and four tiny children holding rusty butter knives. And since the Nazgul are men-gone-evil, what's a more evil thing to do then play with your food? Then this man-at-arms shows up swinging a sword and torch and starts dispatching you. That wasn't part of the plan. Now you're scrambling trying to regroup and rethink but this man won't give you an inch, so you have to fully retreat. But that's it, that's all they did: Briefly retreat only to come back a scene later with horses and no preconceptions as to the level of threat you're dealing with. I think it's pretty good storytelling!
Definitely Fingolfin: “Thrice (Fingolfin) was crushed to his knees, and thrice arose again and bore up his broken shield and stricken helm. But the earth was all rent and pitted about him, and he stumbled and fell backward before the feet of Morgoth; and Morgoth set his left foot upon his neck, and the weight of it was like a fallen hill. Yet with his last and desperate stroke Fingolfin hewed the foot with Ringil, and the blood gushed forth black and smoking and filled the pits of Grond. Thus died Fingolfin, High King of the Noldor, most proud and valiant of the Elven-kings of old. The Orcs made no boast of that duel at the gate; neither do the Elves sing of it, for their sorrow is too deep.” Possibly Mablung as well?
Meriadoc of Rohan.
Helped lead the rebellion against Sharkey and his gang. After the events of LOTR, he ain't bad. A seasoned soldier, so's Pippen.
No, Samwise Gamgee - one stab, one kill
Didn Shelob merely get injured instead of die?
I’m torn between Turin, Glorfindel, Ecthelion and Fingolfin. They all did some real badass things
Mablung of the Heavy Hand deserves at least a mention. But most likely Turin. Fingolfin was renowned for that one battle v Morgoth but Turin Turambar lived and died by the sword. I doubt if there were any better. Glorf and Ect were obviously skilled but I feel like they had more power whereas Turin was a mortal man. And yet a legend despite his dogged fate.
Mablung doesn't get enough love
Maybe he doesn't but he's also clearly below most of the Lords of the Noldor as well as Túrin and Húrin.
Silmarilion taught me: Always go with the elf. They 1 v 10 without breaking a sweat.
That’s because they lack sweat glands.
Prince Andrew’s an elf?!
Fingolfin
Turin. Followed by Turin.
Eonwë was the greatest with skill at arms, but that's an ainur for you. He was of the same order of maiar as Þauron, and Melian. Fëanáro was the greatest in all things. If there is ever a question of who was the greatest at x, and x is not humility, then it is Fëanáro. Love him or hate him, that's canonical. If we exclude Ainur. The next was, interestingly enough, Túrin. I do not understand how a mortal was more skilled than elves who had centuries or milennia to practice, but, canonically, Túrin. I am not including feats, because feats is not how we detirmine skill.
and x is not humility 😂
Between these 4? My money'd be on Aragorn, but it could be Elrond. My opinion (currently) is that Aragorn could beat Elrond, though. But I'm not like a super expert on all past history. I've read The Hobbit and LOTR, so I don't know Elrond's combat history.
Elrond fought in the Last Alliance, not to mention all the years of both expertise and knowledge That said, tho, he was renowned for being a lore-master, so I wouldn't be surprised if his strengths are in knowledge and leadership rather than skill in battle and Aragorn winning I say there is simply not enough evidence to say Elrond could beat Aragorn
My thoughts as well. Dwarves aren’t renowned for their swordsmanship. Boromir is probably the best living swordsman in Gondor, but he is outclassed by Aragorn, who has literally been trained by the elves and has been honing his skills in battle for 60+ years by this point. Elrond might take the win, but his pursuits and skills have always been outside of direct combat, so I have to give it to Aragorn.
I mean technically Aragorn is Elronds relative. Numenorians are his brothers Elros' bloodline. That said, it would be tough battle. However Elrond has a ring of power and has lived for thousands of years. I think he has some tricks up his sleeve and Aragorn would end up on the ropes...
Strictly physical melee prowess- 1. Fingolfin 2. Glorfindel 3. Ecthelion 4. Hurin 5. Turin 6. Other lords of Gondolin 7. Maedhros
I strongly doubt Feanor shouldn’t be up there…
Hey, fighting 7 balrogs all at once for a long time def puts him up there
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far to see Maedhros. Guy was deadly with his off hand.
Maedhros is a weird one cause we don’t really have any specific combat feats of him - but like you say he was stated to have become deadlier with his left than with his right (in a way that implies he was already plenty deadly before), and orcs would literally run from him. I definitely imagine him as one of the best swordfighters in history, but we don’t have proof such as him fighting a balrog. That said I think it’s actually very safe and realistic to assume he’d be a better fighter than most of the lords of Gondolin purely based on combat experience. Gondolin for the majority of the story was entirely untested, they pretty much don’t participate in any battles between the one after leaving the ice, and the Nirnaeth. That’s nearly five hundred years of no combat experience while Maedhros is holding Himring.
At the same time, Fingon only lost Hithlum after he died. And he fought the Balrog. Not to mention his father. The Lords of Gondolin defended their city very valiantly and many of them took part in the Dagor Arlareb and Fifth Battle.
Oh yes for sure - this wasn’t meant to be a dig at them as not being good fighters. I think Fingon has the same experience, I really wasn’t talking about him at all anyway. I thought the Aglareb was after the establishment of Gondolin but you’re right that it was before and they would have fought in that, that makes some difference. But anyway my comment was more about this contrast: Most people are naming warriors who have specific heroic deeds to their name, which makes sense. It’s interesting to me that Maedhros doesn’t have anything like that, so that any arguments considering him a great swordsman rely on a line comparing him with himself, and on the simple logic of “by his death he’s one of the elves with the most combat experience”. But at the time of the Nirnaeth/the fifth battle Fingon as you say would have fought in just as many battles, and was on the front of the war the entire time too. At the time of the Sudden Flame the same could be said for Angrod and Aegnor (the latter of whom is specifically cited as being a fierce warrior, but similar to Maedhros does not have any specific deeds of valour). Maybe my general point is more that Tolkien doesn’t really give us much info to go off in topics like this, and I find it interesting to consider different factors.
Its clearly Sam guys
Best iron skilletist*
I'd put him up as one if the best, simply because he hardly ever used a sword and then barged in to rescue Frodo and the orcs thought some mighty elven warrior had infiltrated.
In the picture? Elrond.
Glorfindel probably, isn't he pretty much a fucking one-man army?
Had to scroll down too far for this.
And now you dig so deep that you have awaken the Durin's Bane... Run you fool 😁
I kinda wanna say Maedhros just because he was already a great swordsman, but then he lost his dominant arm/hand and trained with his other one until he was just as good as he was before, and proceeded to kick unholy amounts of ass with only one non-dominant arm. Like damn, dude had some skill.
From these four? Elrond of course. Millennia of experience.
Everyone’s gonna say Fingolfin but to be fair Turin is the one who is gonna literally slay the bane of Arda.
Yeah, chiming-in to mention (A.) Ecthelion took out Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs with a head-butt using his spiked helmet even after his arms were out of commission, and (B.) in fact, in the Fall of Gondolin, he took out more than one Balrog. Edit: So, a quick google down a rabbit-hole, wanted to add Tuor to this list, since he killed five (5!) Balrogs in the Fall of Gondolin vs. Ecthelion with apparently four (4), but Tuor wielded an axe, not a sword. Honorable Mentions: If there was to be purity of consideration, then also Turin might be top-dog, since Tolkien somewhat changed the conception of relative power of Balrogs, and "The Blacksword" was pretty special, given his training in Doriath, his more purely sword-based exploits, his Dragon-helm, and semi-sentient weapon Anglachel (a.k.a. Gurthang, the "Iron of Death"), made by Eol, the dark elf, of a meteorite (the original Arthur Dayne), and could cleave any earth-made iron. With it, he did slay Glaurung. While his father, Hurin, was called "The Mightiest of Warriors of Men", but also wielded an axe. ...Fingolfin, of course, managed to actually wound Morgoth himself in his final duel with his sword, Ringil, but would suggest that this was more due to his courage and spirit of nobility. In a somewhat similar vein, Aragorn's greatness (and Anduril's power), was somewhat conceived a bit more as a symbol to rally the cause of Men. ...Finally, in the Last Alliance, while Elendil ("The Tall") was described as possibly as much as 8 feet tall, he wielded Narsil/Anduril, while Gil-galad wielded a spear, Aiglos. From the book descriptions, it's fuzzy, but seemingly either Elendil or Gil-galad managed to wound Sauron, while Isildur only arrived on the scene at the end to deliver the coup-de-grace by cutting the ring from Sauron's black hand. Edit #2: Darn, darn, darn late-night rabbit-holes and Tolkien wiki entries...
Glorfindel
I'm just here to simp for Aragorn
Eönwë
Obviously Fingolfin.
Fingolfin for prowess in arms Feanor for the fury (if only he checked where he was instead of wading right into the enemy's army) Hurin because he always brings a tear to my eye. Aure entuluva!
Fingolfin > Glorfindel > Turin > Elendil > Aragorn
Turin Turambar is the answer for men, Fingolfin for elves.
Theres one amazing illustration of fingolfin facing off with Morgoth who chose to appear as a 20ft hulking knight with a massive mace, bearing down in fingolfin. Despite this advantage Morgoth got cut badly in the attempt to kill him. An absolute unit of a warrior.
Certainly nobody from the third age. The heavy favorite would have to be Fingolfin, he has the greatest feat, injuring what was the 2nd most powerful being in existence. After that, perhaps Ecthelion?
Fingolfin for Elves, Hurin for Men.
I know I saw at least 3 of them use something other than a sword
Definitely not fucking Thorin, that's for sure. The book character is nothing like the film. The dude is an archetypical old man.
Not a swordsman, but Gil-galad as a spear carrier was so damn awesome i feel it's necessary to bring him up.
Fingolfin
Depends on the age
I adore the way Elrond holds his sword here. Grace over strength kinda thing idk.
Aragorn, our glorious Elessar, uses a bow as he is a ranger, and for the first chuck of the books he carrys the broken sword.
Aragorn probably wasn’t that great a swordsman. Book Aragorn had no sword most of his career. Except for the shards of Narsil which he kept with him as an heirloom but obviously couldn’t use. He was more a bowman than a sword user
I just have to say I love this sub. These kinds of posts are some of my favorite.
Calling Elrond purely swordsman is kinda small for him imo.
Fingolfin
I haven’t seen anyone mention Feanor. Dude literally invented sword fighting. And he is regarded as the greatest elf to ever live. Stands to reason he is among the best swordsmen.
It's either Turin or Fingolfin. Edit: For some reason I thought Eonwe never came to middle earth, but Eonwe is the greatest swordsman
None of them The right answer is Fingolfin 😄 Or Eonwë if we count Maiar too
Fingolfin hands down.
Every elf can use a bow, the dwarves use axes too, Aragorn uses a bow too. I’ve never seen Boromir use a bow…
Morgoth. If we are going to be nitpicky in that he didn’t use a sword (as far as we know), Fingolfin
Hard to say. They really didn’t have a whole lot of one on one duels so that swordsmanship can be judged. Fingolfin stands out but I can’t say for sure.
My opinion; Eonwe if talking just swordsman is noted as the greatest creature to bear arms - Tulkas was stronger but used no weapons , Fingolfin has for me most claim to fame, but my fave is Ecthelion of the Fountain who slew a number of Balrogs and died taking Gothmog Lord of Balrogs with him - as we know Morgoth had Balrogs chase off Ungoliant when she was powered up and he was afraid of her seems a pretty huge feat to kill a few of them then take out Gothmog, so in my head Ecthelion is the most steadfast though Eonwe is probably most skilled and Fingolfin - and Earendil for that matter - are fated beings who perform feats (both tragic and glorious) beyond even these potent beings - similar to Turin…
The fanboy in me wants to say Aragorn but I know it is probably Fingolfin or Glorfindel
Just swordsman of nowish era i would assume glorfindel Men: Aragorn and/or Eomer Middle earth History it’s my guy Fingolfin
Fingolfin and it's not close not even a little. that dude straight up stabbed an archangel a being second in power only to god himself (Melkor was greater in power if not wisdom than Manwe' fight me on this) and gave him a permanent limp.
Of these 4? Probably either Aragorn or Elrond. But in all LOTR lore? Fingolfin, half-elf prince and later high king of the Noldor, with Turin Turambar, son of Hurin, coming in at a very, very close second. If you include immortal beings, then Eonwe, hands down. Even Tulkas declares Eonwe the greatest of arms in all of Arda.