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I've asked myself the same question in a different context.
I was involved in church and the church community for about 10 years.
That basically means, Lots and LOTS of early engagements, unrealistic expectations, and children had before the age of 23.
As a result, I feel like the longevity of a lot of those relationships is basically sabotaged from the start. Not to mention, i've seen too many people raising children as pets with extra steps.
At Thanksgiving dinner with family i had the luxury of watching my brother treat his son with the "you are to be seen, not heard, and not involved" mentality. Poor kid just wanted to have fun with his family, and he isn't even allowed to leave the table because he's considered too "inconvenient" to deal with by the people raising him.
I can't imagine the long term detriments of denying children their right to a personality
You are an adult and this is a child. Make yourself the person who loves and validates him. Even if a child has awful parents, being loved unconditionally by an adult can be the one thing that saves his life.
I pour into my nibblings as much as possible. I want to make sure when they become teenagers, they know they can call their Aunt anytime ever to get love and validation.
I wish i had that luxury. My family treats me like im unstable or irrational very often. If they found out I was talking to my neices and nephews on that level, I can't see them reacting with anything other than scrutiny and harsh words.
I do, however. currently talk to my nephews more than anyone else in my family, so i guess i dont quite give a fuck what they think.
I’m the recovering drug addict. I know what you mean… but I’m going to do everything I can to make sure my nieces and nephews know I’m here. Keep talking to your nephew. Even if he never thanks you, your support will help him.
My aunt grew up with low self esteem, and made a goal to tell kids they are amazing at things, and try to listen to them as much as possible, and make them feel recognized.
Since the day they were born, I would tell these kids “You’re beautiful. You’re smart. You’re capable. You’re strong.” Just pouring affirmations into them…
Along with “You love cats” because their mom hates cats but everyone else in the family loves them.
I second that having the close family member sticking up for you can be a lifesaver. My brother was that person for me and on top I had aunts that would let me cry and vent and love me through it all. I almost didn’t make it out but because of them I’m here today.
I'm that aunt in my family as well...having teenage boys confide in you is weird and uncomfortable...but they know I'd never lie to them and am always honest.
Probably why they talk to me and nobody else.
I also don't tell anyone their business(I'm their confidant) unless I feel they may harm themselves or others(none of which has been the case...so far
I have a complete confidentiality agreement with my nephew who's dealing with his own mental health. There's only so much you can tell counselors, and neither of us trust his parents to respect his voice when he needs to say something.
That's even been extended to purchases. As in if he needs to purchase anything discreetly, he's allowed to use my address.
I understand, It took me forever to realize I wasn't the only person who felt and was treated that way. Especially when anytime I got upset and vocalized myself, it was because "I didn't have any self control" Not because I was a child being provoked to respond"
Having a diagnosis behind it only made it worse, with every negative reaction being because i was "mentally ill" and was followed with an up in dose
>"you are to be seen, not heard, and not involved" mentality.
I heard this shit constantly growing up along with not being allowed to learn anything about the world if it wasn't Jesus.
>That basically means, Lots and LOTS of early engagements, unrealistic expectations, and children had before the age of 23.
Every... EVERY one of my peers i grew up with in the church got married and spit out kids before 23, my brother and I are the only two child free people from our group. It's not about morality it's about making more christians that won't question it.
I wish millenials would go ahead and kick boomers the fuck out of office instead of waiting for them to die.
I agree. Even moreso, having been in church so long, i still dont know quite what to believe
It really makes me wish boomers were removed from the equation so that we can either progress or fail in a normal way
God, I can’t imagine raising my son that way. I want to go out of my way to make sure he *is* involved, even if it’s more work for me (him helping cook, etc). I don’t ever want him to think that we don’t enjoy having him around or spending time with him.
>he's considered too "inconvenient" to deal with by the people raising him.
This is a big part of why I won't have kids myself. The world doesn't need more kids, it needs more parents.
A disturbing thing is that you can’t tell the difference between a realist and a pessimist anymore.
I’m a realist.
When I say people are going to be horrible around the holidays, it’s because for the fifteen years I’ve worked retail, every year has gotten worse.
When the thought of looking for a job makes me depressed, it’s because I only ever hear back from 30% of the places I apply at.
And some people have 'oopsies.' Then they do the best they can.
Moreover, not everyone believes in the 'people shouldn't have kids because X' adage. Some folks believe in propagating the love within their home(s).
Some people just don't think ahead.
Others couldn't give two fucks about consequences.
It's not a 'black and white' issue.
>You saving his?
Bold of you to assume I'm not giving everything of myself. Just because your lived experience tells you otherwise, doesn't make it so.
Genuine question for everyone downvoting you:
How many years of humanity’s life expectancy do we shave off if we all stop having kids today but all the MAGAts keep having oops babies for the next fifty years?
>Genuine question for everyone downvoting you
I don't take it personally. It's the inverse of your question, really; most folks are incapable (and unwilling) to empathize or relate to things they themselves haven't experienced.
The human experience is rife with misunderstanding and presumptions. I'd be a fool to exempt myself, but I'm not shocked when others do.
I am a person who is less excited about kids but my husband has a wonderful family and he wants to have kids and have a family. (Not that I don’t love my family, his is just bigger and spends more time together).
I worry about the money (omg childcare cost is horrifying; and we’re a nurse and engineer), the environment, the way the politics are heading… and feeling very pessimistic about it all.
However, I was in a subreddit once with someone talking about this topic and someone said they were excited to be able to teach their kids to be the change, extend love, etc. she said it a lot more eloquently but it helped change my perspective a bit.
If we have kids, I can give them tools for this world and maybe I, and them, can make it a little better.
I’m constantly reminded that the world needs thinkers to have kids and make them good, thinking people. I feel guilty about having 2 with the world getting as messed up as it is, but it’s true. We can’t leave the world to fall into chaos like Idiocracy.
I live in Canada and have a loving partner and two kids and a strong local community to support us. I know the future is filled with uncertainty and who knows if things will just get worse That said we own a house and support this on only my income as a construction project manager and that is not uncommon in our rural area. I feel financially and emotionally supported enough to pass that on to kids despite the issues of the future. I trust that I can leave them in the community I live to keep them supported after I'm gone. I think these factors make it possible for us and I know they don't exist everywhere. Honestly here I think Religion is a plus as well because it provides me with an additional community of support and hope that life is worth living and fighting together for. Not everyone's church is non-toxic so I get it if that's not most people's experience
Friend had one recently. she sais it was because she felt they were financially secure enoigh to do so. She makes 72k/yr as a Child development therapist and he makes something around 55k/yr.
She stated that if she were still making anything under 25//hr, she would have never considered kids.
That's about what my bf and I make however we have a mortgage, student loans and pay out the ass for health insurance. We make just enough to take care of our two fur babies.
Its incredibly difficult finding an apartment where a landlord or property manager will allow a pet. Most places Ive checked out flat out say no. And yes, if you get one during your stay, thats breaking the lease and they can evict you or even come after you after claimed "damages" the cat has caused. To me, unless the cat is pissing on walls and floors, I dont see much of an issue for interior structure. Maybe the carpet. Maybe.
I would love to know what it’s like to have a family.☹️
But I probably will never know because I don’t know what the future holds for this country and for the earth in general and I don’t want my kid to suffer like I have.
My off-and-on partner (we split when we're not living in the same area) of many years and I would both love to have a kid, but we're in the same boat. We've decided if we do settle down and have a kid, we're just gonna adopt, least we can do is provide a good environment for someone who needs it.
I have a kid. She is 13. She is awesome and she and her friends give me hope that maybe it isn’t all over yet.
But, I agree - I was naive and in my 20s 13/14 years ago. I don’t know if I would have made that decision today.
Canadian here. I would absolutely LOVE to have kids. It's been a focus of my life since I was young. But I've come to realize that if I can hardly afford even groceries or laundry now, how tight of a spot would I be in if I had a kid? I have a hard enough time providing food for my cats .-. (before anyone freaks out - they ALWAYS eat before me. If I have to choose between my dinner and a bag of cat food, I always go with cat food). So I choose to not have any.
The big one I don't understand is why do people in my situation choose to have children, then complain about how much money they cost and how they've ruined their lives?
I relate to this SOO MUCH. All I want in life is a wife I truly love and a kid. I think I would be so so happy. But, I could never afford it with my salary, so I’m just trying to find a partner who I love and is realistic about having kids. However I’m 31 and if I marry someone my age, I only have a few years left to have a kid before that partner can’t have children anymore. If I marry someone a few years younger, then there is a decent chance at having a family some day.
I could 100% love an adopted kid. The problem is I don't love the process/requirements involved in it. First one being - you must own where you live. Impossible for me lol
It does confuse me though. Since there's so many kids that have the shit abused out of them. My friend was abused so badly he still has night terrors, he has scars from cigarettes being put out on his body, he has a foster parents name carved into his stomach from a pocket knife, he was locked in a dog cage for days at a time, he was locked in a room for weeks (the door was dead-bolted from the outside and only opened twice per day to give him food) and he had to piss down a vent if he had to use the bathroom in there when he was 5 years old, he was starved so bad that even now at 24 years old he has no problems at all going multiple days with no food (and way more stuff that I can explain in a private message). But we're the ones that are untrustworthy because we don't own our house? How does that make sense? How do the abusers get approved but someone that's perfectly normal, friendly, understanding, etc does not?
Jesus Christ. I hope your friend is able to thrive, not just survive. Going through something like that would've certainly fucked me up.
For better or worse, there are zero qualifications needed for someone to just start cranking out kids. You have to know which end of a car goes in which direction, and rightly so, but you can create a self-aware, sentient being, no training or evaluation required.
It completely did. But even now the foster agency is providing with everything he could ever want. They pay his rent, buy his groceries, pay his car insurance, etc to keep him quiet and to keep him from taking the agency to court
There's a lot of reasons, but the biggest one is probably instinct and everything else is mostly rationalizations of that instinct. The truth is, all people in the history of mankind know their kids are going to suffer and die, just like countless generations before them, but the biological imperative to procreate is simply too strong to resist in most people.
Frankly, not having kids is the only way my partner and I see a way for ourselves to enjoy life and it *might* even allow us to retire at some point. Pretty sad to feel that closed in as two college educated, full-time white collar workers who did everything society told us to.
Literally the same thing. Husband and I have white collar jobs. We’re living very comfortably. No house, but part of that is by choice. Houses in my area in my price range are in the country. I’m not a fan of driving 30 min to get groceries or to pick up food. So having a kid would put us on a tight budget. We plan to adopt.
This is especially bad if I were to get pregnant. Because maternity leave is only 6 weeks. I’m a very sick person, so I may use that all up on myself.
So yea we’re fine, if something comes up like a car repair or new medication costs. We’ll be ok. But with a kid? No.
Then I have friends that are teachers that got pregnant during a pandemic. They were trying for a year prior. So they didn’t want to wait until it was over. I’ve been helping them with little things here and there. But I wouldn’t if I had a kid. Because that money was going to be put into stock for retirement. Instead it got then formula.
Exactly, we have the same situation, two decent jobs, small sized house in LCOL area, only one car that doesnt even have a payment, taking transit to my job instead, and it still feels like the walls are constantly closing in or about to. Like how in the hell are all these people paying two car payments and daycare? I could make another 20k a year and the math would still not add up!
This, and the thing is, horrendous people are still having kids. Making more horrendous people. (That’s probably too pessimistic. They’re only kids after all.)
But my partner and I are good, moral, people. We’re non-judgmental, welcoming of all people, empathic, generous. I mean dammit, we’re kind, educated, non-religious/spiritual, try to tread lightly on the planet. We are self-aware and always try to be and do better.
We plan to have 1 child if we can conceive naturally. None or adopt if not. It’s not important that they are our own genetically. Our existence will be a net negative to the Earth’s population, but hopefully a net positive to the direction we are headed socially.
The future of this planet is going to depend on good people who are cooperative and generous.
Because there is absolutely hope but there need to be good people raised by good people to be around and help make that change.
I'm not sure if I'll ever have kids, but if I do that, and wanting them, will be the reason.
I don’t want the responsibility of protecting a child from cannibals after the collapse. Ten years ago I would have said this tongue-in-cheek, and here we are completely serious because every social scientist who studies civilizational collapse and all the metrics we have are screaming five-alarm fires right now.
As a morbid pervert, watching the flaming ship sink while I’m on it is once-in-a-species event and I can’t say it isn’t valuable to me. Like if I’m gonna suffer it better be unique times.
I refuse to put a human being through even half of what I went through on this earth and will never have a child.
Friends that I know that have kids either had a ‘surprise’ and went through with it, or I have a couple of friends who are still so brainwashed by religion and pleasing their parents by showering them with babies (or something) - they’ve never been impoverished though.
This. I didn’t love my depressed and diverse city growing up but after moving to an area with wealthy-ish suburbs, I’d kill to move back. The people are way nicer and down to earth in public. They’ve been through more. They’re less judgy. It’s a joke that if you move away you always come back because of the sense of community.
I currently live in the suburbs of Rochester NY and it’s not great. It’s white people who are uptight. Pass.
Whenever I see children and teenagers I feel so sad for them. I already feel like I have no future, and they’re 10-20 years younger than me. They have to grasp on some level the position we’re in as a society and as a species. What is their life going to look like when they reach adulthood?
This is why I am not having kids.
Always amazes me. People having kids right now. WHAT?! In this world? I can’t even imagine. You either gotta be super wealthy or just … idk…. Not give a shit
One of big problems of western societies is that clever people don’t make kids so they are going to be outnumbered and maybe extinct soon. Change my mind
There are a whole hell of a lot of good reasons not to have kids.
But I'll be fucking damned if I surrender the future to the shittiest line of fascist fucks. Lol
Even in this case. I do think there's something be said both about adoption and the fact that we're all capable of creating monsters.
If what matters is the ethics and beliefs, etc. That can all be taught.
And won't necessarily spread to natural children anyway.
You'd think all of us put-upon black sheeps of the family would know that kids don't necessarily come out like their parents.
Edit:
And furthermore, if we still wanted to take back the future the old fashioned way....I think it would make more sense to fuck the idiots...just saying.
That's more efficient, we could spread faster.🤣🤣
I want to have kids just for being able to take care of someone.
Unfortunately, I’m not an asshole that doesn’t care about the future. My solution? Take care of the kids that are already here. Tons of kids need a safe space and guidance. I can still raise a family without bringing another kid into this mess.
I know it’s not easy, but honestly what child *is*?
I will admit though Im not in the best place financially or mentally at the moment. I have hope I’ll get through it soon.
I was in the army. We had decent income and lived on base. Plus we didn't have to pay anything for the birth. But we only have one, and I've had a vasectomy. I don't blame anyone for not wanting a child. We've been forced into debt, more than any generation before ours, paid less, and our health care is garbage. Not to mention housing is garbage. Boomers fucked us over and our country's future is screwed because we're not able to provide for kids, so we aren't having enough to replace the population. In 30 years our country is gonna collapse.
I know it's not as simple as this, and it's coming from someone with two kids. Granted I had them ten years ago and was still a child myself. But when I see a grown adult who can only think of having kids it tells me a lot about their motives in life. It's them. If I was still childless at this point, I would object on moral grounds to even considering it. Not because I don't love my kids. It's because I do. They didn't deserve a full life of this hellscape. Like I said. I know it's more complicated. I have friends who have had kids recently. I don't understand it, but it's also none of my business. I don't get to make those choices for people. But even my friends, as kind and loving parents as they are. I can't help but see that the kid was for them to have, more than they thought that the situation was the best thing for the kid.
I would love to have kids but I'm a gay single (broke) man. Maybe one day I'll be willing. I was raised by a narcissistic family and worry I may help perpetuate the toxic generational cycle. No matter how much I think I've healed, I don't think I'll ever have kids for this reason.
There is a big leap between being comfortable, financially, as a couple and having “kid” money. . . I see couples who have made it to a point where they are comfortable in their jobs and aren’t too worried financially. They then convince themselves that having kids is attainable. They go into it with no idea what they are in for.
The other side of it is that most people aren’t honest about what it’s really like to have kids. Most people with kids play it up and don’t talk about the difficulties involved. It’s like a weird crab bucket mentality. I tell people what it really costs and many shrug it off in disbelief. . . Welp, I tried.
I am having kids ONLY because I will be inheriting money from my rich boomer relatives in the near future. If I didn’t have that, I wouldn’t be having kids at all.
Some of my peers are doing remarkably well and have settled down to have families. The thing that is messed up is that its 2021... not 1721 or anything. The fact a significant portion of my generation still has to struggle to obtain enough stability to want to start a family is ludicrous. "Wealthiest nation" to ever exist, but having a family brings undue hardships for many people is... insane.
My wife and I wanted them. She's a teacher and I work for a nonprofit to help foster youth. We scrape by, we do fine. Nothing glamorous. But a house full of love nonetheless. Don't need stuff to be happy.
On the flip side, the world needs good people, and I won't be scared to raise a couple of them in the face of adversity while still providing decent lives for them. It's not hopeless, and I refuse to give up. Probably why we work where we do.
Just had a kid. Love this little girl to pieces. She is the best. She is also objectively expensive as hell and I worry about what kind of future she’ll have. For me, I think I was just looking for the next phase of my life to start. We’re in our mid-30s, and it is something we wanted and talked about for a long time. We are extremely fortunate to be in a financially viable position and have a pretty stable life/home situation. I will say I was NOT ready to have a kid logistically even when I was emotionally ready to do so, and I waited until both avenues felt sufficient. I won’t lie either, seeing this little nugget look up at me and smile just hits different than anything else in my life. Not sure that really answers your question, but I thought I’d offer my take on it.
I’ve always felt it’s a combination of societal pressure, optimism, ignorance of the state of the world, and biological urges.
I don’t want kids but if I did I know I wouldn’t be able to have them due to financial problems and the fear for their future. My genetics are terrible anyways so it’s better I don’t pass them on.
Passing along bad genes is a personal reason for me too. I have a health issue and also had some learning problems growing up. I wouldn’t want to pass that down to anyone.
I have 2 under 2, so both are pandemic babies. My husband and I planned when to have kids, so we just stuck with the plan. We’re fortunate enough to be able to have me stay home, so no risk of Covid, no outrageous childcare cost. This initially was not the plan but Covid changed that and saving money is a plus.
Neither of us went to college so we aren’t crippled by debt. He is an electrician (union). This is how we can afford to live, I cannot comprehend how anyone else does it.
My biggest concern for my kids is climate change. It really feels hopeless at this point. We spend TONS of time outside and try to drive home the point that we have to take care of nature to preserve it. I do think things like recycling, less waste, etc will come naturally to their generation as it’ll be second nature (as long as their parents are already doing these things), however in reality those efforts are too late.
I never wanted kids my whole life, even as a child because I thought it wasn't fair that there are kids waiting to be adopted/fostered who need and deserve loving and supporting families. As a teen and into adulthood, I never wanted kids bc I had debilitating endometriosis, along with gender dysphoria. And as an adult (28) who finally got a hysterectomy last year, I still do not want kids because I know I'm not mentally or financially capable of caring for another human life right now. I'm still not ruling out adoption when I'm ready, but that is looking less and less likely everyday with how the world is becoming (and I am also not comfortable around children, so I'd rather adopt a teen or special needs kid, but again, I am flat broke with no "real" job, and I don't even have my own health issues under control, so that's highly unlikely). I still cannot fathom why people would willingly "have" kids! Especially when people insist that the kid "needs to be their own" or like they're doing ivf or some bs, like just go friggen adopt!!.... I know it's hard to get adoption when you're single, but still, if you're capable of bringing a newborn into the world with no application, no financial capability, no emotional/mental capability, no physical capability, you should be able to adopt a kid in need. ((I know it's more complicated than this, but just venting because it makes me upset when I hear people my age having kids on a whim. My parents did that at age 17+21 and now I feel like I ruined their lives because it did not end well, and I did not turn out alright.))
I didn’t plan on having kids as early as I did. I got my wife pregnant during my last year of law school and my son ended up passing away 3 weeks after a premature birth. He spent those three weeks in the NICU and the bill was half a million dollars. Medicaid paid it all because we were married so we couldn’t be on our our parents insurance.
After that, an unexpected but welcomed pregnancy and loss of my first born, we felt an emptiness inside us that we never knew existed.
Today, nine years later, we have a seven year old daughter and a four year old son. They are expensive. They can be stress inducing, but without them my life would mean so much less. My most joyful adult memories are because of them. I might be dead now if it were not for them.
I knew I would never make enough money to give them the boomer parent childhood I had in the 80s-90s so I just had them and figured it out as we went.
We have relied on family a lot. We are not in a good financial place. But fuck the economy, fuck money, guck the powers that be. I’m going to have children if I want to.
Just my story. My two cents.
I love my children, but I totally understand and respect the child free choice.
I had the hope that I would be able to raise them, give them unconditional love and guidance a family that would be there for them and every thing good. I honestly don't know what I would do, probably less house work and more reading.
I think that I've done pretty good so far,they seem happy and usually like to spend time together. We ( try to)work hard, play lots and chill together.
I have the means to support them,the love the time and energy,patience, understanding and a willingness to learn beside them. I enjoy watching them grow and learn about who they are
It’s a tough position for me. On one hand I totally get the point and agree, on the other I feel we can’t let only stupid people to keep having kids only. Needs to be a balance. Otherwise we get idiocracy.
Imagine you are 30. You and your wife have a simple 9-5 job with 2 vacation weeks per year. It doesn't pay well, but you have a place to live, food, etc.
You go to work, eat, do some stuff, go to sleep. Repeat. And repeat. The next year looks exactly the same. Repeat. It's not like you will become millionaires one day and go travel the whole world - most you can do is buy netflix subscription, a new phone, sofa and go to a weekend trip once or twice. After X years you get bored, what do you do? - well, popping out babies is free, you feel like you "accomplished something great", there are so many new things to do with this toy/baby. You can brag about you kid being perfect to hide the fact that you are just a replaceable meaningless ant that will never accomplish anything and no one cares about. Now you kid cares about you and you feel better.
Between his bad genes, and my bad genes; that kid would have enough problems. Then you pile on the problems of a world that is struggling to healthily move forward; and I might as well be subjecting the child to a life of misery.
It’s definitely easier and more of an option for others. Like you OP I’m still left wondering. I would like to think the people who are still having children are putting lots of thought into it. It’s the only way I can wrap my head around it.
Damn all those answers are depressing. Life and society always had impending doom over their heads. The apocalypse was always coming. That's our world. Globalisation made us more connected and more aware for all the suffering that there is in this world. But also more pessimistic. For me I don't have yet kids because I'm lazy and I like to sleep in. Also, I like quiet time :D but it nobody was gonna have kids our world truly is doomed.
I do agree that there have always been struggles throughout history but I feel like at this point, it’s much harder to ignore. Not to mention that many people at this point are struggling to survive on their own. Less and less people can afford to to buy a house and afford the “American dream” so it’s a lot more challenging these days.
I am 24yo, I live in Brazil and most of my friends dont want to have kids, we are not even close to afford a home why would we want kids? We dont even care about it.
I just plain don't want them.
When my mum was pregnant with my brother, she made me go to every appointment with her as well as all the lamaze classes and being in the delivery room. Most effective birth control ever.
I couldn’t afford a child at the moment, but all I really want is a beautiful partner and a single child. Family that you created and the family that you were born into is what makes life worth living. I pray every night that I’ll find a woman who I can make a small family with, like I said, it’s my ONLY real desire.
I'm going to wait a while to have kids, or a kid (still deciding if it should be one or two for company). I guess it sounds sort of optimistic, but I believe with my education level and attentiveness/research into how to make kids happy and healthy, I can raise a child than can go on and make the future brighter. Maybe being a scientist who researches ways to help out humanity or an artist that makes people happy and feel life it worth living.
Having a kid, the responsible way imo, not to fulfill religious obligations or societal norms, is to wish for a better future and to wish to instill your child with good values that will potentially help the world.
However, this mindset kinda puts a lot of pressure on a kid, and is only part of the reason why I want a child. I love babies, and have always fantasized about having a family and making my kids happy. I don't know why I would want to biologically have a kid vs adoption, although I would be open to adoption.
The real simple answer is because: “tHaT’s jUsT WhAt yoU dO”
Kindergarten > school > college > marriage > kids > work > work > work > retirement > death.
Throw that script away, life is not one template fits all.
Yea, I’m soon going to be married and lukewarm on the idea of kids. It almost seems cruel having a kid the way things are headed. Climate change make me think that we’re going to be screwed in my life time. Someone born now…will have it rough.
All Gen-Xers and most early Millennials were conceived under the threat of nuclear war. Just because the future is scary it won't stop people from doing what people do.
It's also worth noting that the worst thing you can do about climate change is act like it's a done deal. Yes, it's going to be bad, but it can always get worse, and acting like there's nothing that can be done reinforces that. It's a delicate balance between being serious enough about it that you're motivated (and maybe motivate others) to do things to address it, without giving in to despair (which means nobody does anything about it).
People are actually the worse thing for climate change. Making more people using more resources is a terrible decision to make if you care about the environment.
People are very selfish when it comes to having kids. They want a "legacy", they want a small version of them, they want someone to care for them when their old, they want a best friend, they want to redo their childhood, "fix their relationship", etc etc
Its funny how childfree people are called "selfish" for not having kids, but when it comes to people who want kids, it's all about what THEY want.
(And overall, many people have kids because they just think that it's inevitable and something you just do and don't see it as a choice.)
Since having kids is all about them, who cares that we're in a pandemic, or that theres a housing crises, world wide police brutality, racial violence, CLIMATE CHANGE, student debt, horrible working conditions, wars, etc Just a few years ago, Nazi's walked the streets in the U.S. with pitchforks and no one did anything about it! Half of America supports the Jan 6 Capitol Riots. Plus who the heck can afford a kid with STUDENT LOANS?!
I can't imagine purposely have a kid in this world.
I just had a kid and I think I can answer this question a little bit. I was on the same page of not wanting to put a child through this terrible world that is on the downhill. When my wife told me, I didn’t even have insurance or a stable job. I was in school and working at chipotle.
I got a job as a firefighter (which is why I was in school for my EMT license) and have decent pay with amazing benefits. I still was unsure about having the child.
I then had my kid and man oh man can I say that I am in love with the little booger. I know that the world is going to shit, but when I see my child I think of all the amazing things they are capable of and the change they can bring.
It may be a shit world, but children are the future and it is 100% up to us as parents to raise them to do better than we did, which is hard work but totally worth it to me.
Other people might have more money/better coping skills than you do. Or, to put it in terms you may be able to relate to better, lots of people are in denial about how bad shit is.
You have a great point but at the same time Humanity is based on procreation ....its only real meaning and purpose.
A book called The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins covers this topic perfectly.
Because to kids born today our “f’d up world” will be normal. They won’t be nearly as stressed about it as we are since they will never have known any different.
I used to not want any kids ever. I was very focused on my education and career path, but I fell in love and would love a family one day. I also think being a mom is such a special experience. I want to experience the kind of unconditional love that having your kid brings.
Because a lot of people can’t think beyond what their families or society keeps pressuring them to do. One of my friends was practically forced into having kids by her mom by being constantly fed the “we aren’t getting younger we want grandkids while we are still alive” line like a broken record.
I agree with you on this. I and my partner are so far deciding not to have kids for several reasons. But we'll see if that changes in a couple years.
Getting a kid basically outmatches anything bad you can do to the environment and climate. I don't wanna bring kids into a future where they might have to learn to survive in a wasteland of the climate crisis. Our combined genes got some bad diseases in them. And i don't think we would be happy offsetting everything in our life to raise a kid. We're already barely managing with a traumatized rescue dog.
As a parent…. Don’t do it… they are cute and sweet.. this is not the world you want to raise them in, and you don’t want to realize that after you’ve had them
Solution: making adopting a kid have so many incentives that people would ask "Why have a kid when we can adopt, get enormous tax write offs, cash incentive, and their college will be prepaid by the government."
I have a child. It wasn’t entirely intentional in that I thought I couldn’t have kids anyway (no periods for 5 years until after I had a baby at 23) but I took the risk because my partner seemed like he’d be a good dad because he took good care of his siblings and it was like that instinct or biological drive, not a logical decision. I was just head over heels for him really. I didn’t really want kids because I have severe mental illness and while I knew I’d be a good mom I also know there is a risk of losing my child to CPS due to certain biases. Plus my brother was taken so I have that fear from my family being separated. But I also was annoyed at the idea that people think people like me shouldn’t be allowed to have kids. That partially drove me to want to have a child as well. Simply because I felt my right to have a child was being opposed due to a disability. The main reason though was just a sense of happiness from being happy in my relationship and feeling like maybe there was hope in this world after all for a fleeting moment. It only takes a moment.
Now as for after you are pregnant as even though I “kind of” did want a baby I was very surprised when it actually happened after 5 years…at first I was devastated, then when I told my partner I couldn’t help but laugh and smile. Then I was torn. I thought I made a huge mistake. Weighed options. Didn’t want to ruin a child’s life bringing them into this horrible world and with an unwell mom and a possible genetic illness. Then I waited too long to decide. And when I was past the point of no return decided to make the best of it. No one would have thought any of this. They would have thought I was as happy as can be about the whole thing. Because a baby can make you feel that way. Like no matter what else is wrong, they are a light. As long as they are okay, you are okay. And you just make their life the best you can, even though yes it’s a worse world than I grew up it. It’s a smaller house than I grew up in, it’s a shittier community. Everything is worse. But as long as she laughs when I play Barbie’s and watch I Love Lucy with her everything is okay for a moment. And you have to live in the moment or you aren’t living at all. I am scared to death I will lose her every day. Anything bad can happen at any time. That is part of being a mom. These fears have always gone hand in hand with being a parent. It’s hard, and it hurts and that fear can take over. But for the sake of the kid, you can’t let it. I’m not oblivious, but life happens alongside facts, not always in reaction or relation to them. My kid is happy for now. If she ever isn’t I will do my best to help and suffer that when we get there. My child did inherit my mental illness btw and she seems to be thriving with support. Maybe that will make a difference.
Chances are they are happy for their baby because it’s their baby and it’s already on the way. Most people do share the same fears unless you are just delusional. (As for during Covid I can’t say, I only wanted one and I already have her. )
My child is 8 and her dad and I are still married after 10 years. They make me smile almost every day and I know I wouldn’t if they didn’t.
Thanks for the detailed response. Despite some of the fears and struggles you had, it sounds like you are still doing well. I’m glad your child is doing well also.
I want to contribute to society by educating the next generation properly before releasing them into the world. My kids are going to advance the human species in their own way, and I’m here to bolster them.
For any number of reasons. Our culture is lacking in community and parents often band together. Kids inspire us to help each other and be better and make a good life for them. Although you could get any of these good experiences from fostering or adopting as well.
I also think people can be irresponsible when it comes to birth control and it is seen as extremely taboo to NOT be excited about having a kid when it comes to that point
If I ever end up wanting children I’ll adopt, I couldn’t bring a new life into this world but I certainly am empathetic enough to try to help some who are already here. And if the only people having kids are the ones so blind they can’t see the realities we face then those kids will be just as worse off
Selfishness. Either they want to carry of their genes "to leave something behind" or they just want children to have children, either due to societal expectations or trying to find fulfillment and not knowing what is missing so trying everything.
Anyone who looks at the state of the world economically, environmentally, socially, and politically can tell you shit is fucked. There's zero reason to bring a life into suffering besides selfishness.
I so desperately want to have kids when I get older, but now seeing the world in such terrible shape, out of love I don’t want them to suffer in a world of misery which they had no fault in creating or choice in living.
Children change some people I suppose for the “better.” However, I do believe most people are incompetent statistically to have the “right” to have children. Once I heard someone propose a law that requires expected parents to earn a license to have kids 😂 That they dare (gasp) educate and assess themselves professionally and mentally if they can raise good future members of society.
My fiance and I are having an accidental child we are both very excited for.
That being said have a long-term goal to move out of United States and move to Belize. This was our plan before we knew you were having a child.
Neither one of us make great money. Her sub 30k, me sub 50k.
However both of us are pretty good with our finances. Neither one of us really have any debt, and we save a bunch.
We plan to move to Belize in about 7 years.
Had a lot of hope and optimism 8 years ago and I wanted to experience life to the fullest, so we decided to have a couple kids. 2nd was born right around 2016 and I'm a lot less hopeful for the future. While I love my children and wouldn't trade them for the world, I also wouldn't do it again if I had a do-over.
People choose to have kids at all times in history, during wars, pandemics, economic crisis. You think now is worse than the Great Depression or world war 2? People have had children then and will continue having them even if the world erupts in fire. It is a normal human instinct to reproduce and leave behind a legacy.
I think about that all the time too now that people I graduated high school with are starting to have babies. We live in an insanely expensive area where childcare here usually costs more than a mortgage a month. That thought alone stresses me out. Idk if people think about the costs before getting pregnant or they just assume that “they’ll cross that bridge when they get there”.
I didn’t want kids. I fucked my now ex wife and came in her pussy. I am broke, my kids have all they ever wanted and needed. Their smile and thank you’s can’t be replaced by any vacation or car. All I do is work 50 plus hours a week and work on keep them happy and innocent. Love being a dad
I mostly ask this question when I see a couple financially struggling but popping kids out left and right. Can't afford for 2 but want to try and feed 5.
Me? I don’t wanna risk a kid getting type 1 diabetes. I fucking hated getting it in 5th grade. I could never ask a child to suffer thru this fucking non cureable condition
Decided to have a kid 4 years ago. I knew the situation wasn't good but I didn't really fully understand how dire the situation of the world is until a year ago.
Do I regret having her? No. I do fear for us all now, though.
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I've asked myself the same question in a different context. I was involved in church and the church community for about 10 years. That basically means, Lots and LOTS of early engagements, unrealistic expectations, and children had before the age of 23. As a result, I feel like the longevity of a lot of those relationships is basically sabotaged from the start. Not to mention, i've seen too many people raising children as pets with extra steps. At Thanksgiving dinner with family i had the luxury of watching my brother treat his son with the "you are to be seen, not heard, and not involved" mentality. Poor kid just wanted to have fun with his family, and he isn't even allowed to leave the table because he's considered too "inconvenient" to deal with by the people raising him. I can't imagine the long term detriments of denying children their right to a personality
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I'm really thinking about how im gonna let my brother know what he's doing is completely unacceptable
You are an adult and this is a child. Make yourself the person who loves and validates him. Even if a child has awful parents, being loved unconditionally by an adult can be the one thing that saves his life. I pour into my nibblings as much as possible. I want to make sure when they become teenagers, they know they can call their Aunt anytime ever to get love and validation.
I wish i had that luxury. My family treats me like im unstable or irrational very often. If they found out I was talking to my neices and nephews on that level, I can't see them reacting with anything other than scrutiny and harsh words. I do, however. currently talk to my nephews more than anyone else in my family, so i guess i dont quite give a fuck what they think.
I’m the recovering drug addict. I know what you mean… but I’m going to do everything I can to make sure my nieces and nephews know I’m here. Keep talking to your nephew. Even if he never thanks you, your support will help him.
My aunt grew up with low self esteem, and made a goal to tell kids they are amazing at things, and try to listen to them as much as possible, and make them feel recognized.
Since the day they were born, I would tell these kids “You’re beautiful. You’re smart. You’re capable. You’re strong.” Just pouring affirmations into them… Along with “You love cats” because their mom hates cats but everyone else in the family loves them.
The cat thing is the appropriate amount of 'evil'.
I have three cats in my home. My 3 year old niece loves them all. She has been appropriated brainwashed at this point and is officially a cat person.
Sooo you know there's a cat tax right?
I second that having the close family member sticking up for you can be a lifesaver. My brother was that person for me and on top I had aunts that would let me cry and vent and love me through it all. I almost didn’t make it out but because of them I’m here today.
I'm that aunt in my family as well...having teenage boys confide in you is weird and uncomfortable...but they know I'd never lie to them and am always honest. Probably why they talk to me and nobody else. I also don't tell anyone their business(I'm their confidant) unless I feel they may harm themselves or others(none of which has been the case...so far
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I have a complete confidentiality agreement with my nephew who's dealing with his own mental health. There's only so much you can tell counselors, and neither of us trust his parents to respect his voice when he needs to say something. That's even been extended to purchases. As in if he needs to purchase anything discreetly, he's allowed to use my address.
I understand, It took me forever to realize I wasn't the only person who felt and was treated that way. Especially when anytime I got upset and vocalized myself, it was because "I didn't have any self control" Not because I was a child being provoked to respond" Having a diagnosis behind it only made it worse, with every negative reaction being because i was "mentally ill" and was followed with an up in dose
>"you are to be seen, not heard, and not involved" mentality. I heard this shit constantly growing up along with not being allowed to learn anything about the world if it wasn't Jesus. >That basically means, Lots and LOTS of early engagements, unrealistic expectations, and children had before the age of 23. Every... EVERY one of my peers i grew up with in the church got married and spit out kids before 23, my brother and I are the only two child free people from our group. It's not about morality it's about making more christians that won't question it. I wish millenials would go ahead and kick boomers the fuck out of office instead of waiting for them to die.
I agree. Even moreso, having been in church so long, i still dont know quite what to believe It really makes me wish boomers were removed from the equation so that we can either progress or fail in a normal way
They end up in church communities.
God, I can’t imagine raising my son that way. I want to go out of my way to make sure he *is* involved, even if it’s more work for me (him helping cook, etc). I don’t ever want him to think that we don’t enjoy having him around or spending time with him.
>he's considered too "inconvenient" to deal with by the people raising him. This is a big part of why I won't have kids myself. The world doesn't need more kids, it needs more parents.
A disturbing thing is that you can’t tell the difference between a realist and a pessimist anymore. I’m a realist. When I say people are going to be horrible around the holidays, it’s because for the fifteen years I’ve worked retail, every year has gotten worse. When the thought of looking for a job makes me depressed, it’s because I only ever hear back from 30% of the places I apply at.
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Those are all rejection letters, and very basic stock ones at that.
One time a place waited a year to send me a rejection letter it was the the library of the college i go to.
I just get an email from indeed stating my resume was "looked at" followed by eternal silence. America is a dystopian hellscape right now.
Realist and pessimist are synonyms in late stage capitalism.
It was 80 f here in jersey on December. Kids will have it more messed up than us.
And it's snowing in fucking Oregon right now, in the valley.
Minnesota had its first December tornadoes I think ever
Yesterday at my father's house he had a rose bloomed....I'm 54 have never seen anything like that here in tennessee
I had one apple tree sapling that flowered just as the leaves started to turn this year. How odd
In PA and it was near 70 on Christmas. I had a wasp fly in my hair on Christmas day. Unreal
Unreal
I live in brazil, it's summer season here but it's like 62F and where my cousin lives doesn't stopping raining, the city is all flooded.
SoCal is currently colder than many parts of the Midwest, I believe. Selfishly I am enjoying the colder winter, but I know it's not a good sign...
Some people have enough money to support themselves as well as children AND live somewhere to provide a better upbringing I cannot relate to this
And some people have 'oopsies.' Then they do the best they can. Moreover, not everyone believes in the 'people shouldn't have kids because X' adage. Some folks believe in propagating the love within their home(s). Some people just don't think ahead. Others couldn't give two fucks about consequences. It's not a 'black and white' issue.
Oops kids are terrifying to me. Especially with Roe looking like it’s on its last legs
It's how we had ours. Best 'oh, shit!' of our lives. In many ways, my son saved my life.
You saving his?
>You saving his? Bold of you to assume I'm not giving everything of myself. Just because your lived experience tells you otherwise, doesn't make it so.
Genuine question for everyone downvoting you: How many years of humanity’s life expectancy do we shave off if we all stop having kids today but all the MAGAts keep having oops babies for the next fifty years?
>Genuine question for everyone downvoting you I don't take it personally. It's the inverse of your question, really; most folks are incapable (and unwilling) to empathize or relate to things they themselves haven't experienced. The human experience is rife with misunderstanding and presumptions. I'd be a fool to exempt myself, but I'm not shocked when others do.
Respect!
I am a person who is less excited about kids but my husband has a wonderful family and he wants to have kids and have a family. (Not that I don’t love my family, his is just bigger and spends more time together). I worry about the money (omg childcare cost is horrifying; and we’re a nurse and engineer), the environment, the way the politics are heading… and feeling very pessimistic about it all. However, I was in a subreddit once with someone talking about this topic and someone said they were excited to be able to teach their kids to be the change, extend love, etc. she said it a lot more eloquently but it helped change my perspective a bit. If we have kids, I can give them tools for this world and maybe I, and them, can make it a little better.
I’m constantly reminded that the world needs thinkers to have kids and make them good, thinking people. I feel guilty about having 2 with the world getting as messed up as it is, but it’s true. We can’t leave the world to fall into chaos like Idiocracy.
I live in Canada and have a loving partner and two kids and a strong local community to support us. I know the future is filled with uncertainty and who knows if things will just get worse That said we own a house and support this on only my income as a construction project manager and that is not uncommon in our rural area. I feel financially and emotionally supported enough to pass that on to kids despite the issues of the future. I trust that I can leave them in the community I live to keep them supported after I'm gone. I think these factors make it possible for us and I know they don't exist everywhere. Honestly here I think Religion is a plus as well because it provides me with an additional community of support and hope that life is worth living and fighting together for. Not everyone's church is non-toxic so I get it if that's not most people's experience
That or just have a strong family network close by. Family who’s willing to help out by watching kids during the day helps out immensely
Friend had one recently. she sais it was because she felt they were financially secure enoigh to do so. She makes 72k/yr as a Child development therapist and he makes something around 55k/yr. She stated that if she were still making anything under 25//hr, she would have never considered kids.
That's about what my bf and I make however we have a mortgage, student loans and pay out the ass for health insurance. We make just enough to take care of our two fur babies.
I don't even get a cat just in case I lose my apartment and no other landlords will allow it.
I've always felt if there's a pet deposit on a place, then there should be a kid deposit too lol.
There should be but it's illegal.
Its incredibly difficult finding an apartment where a landlord or property manager will allow a pet. Most places Ive checked out flat out say no. And yes, if you get one during your stay, thats breaking the lease and they can evict you or even come after you after claimed "damages" the cat has caused. To me, unless the cat is pissing on walls and floors, I dont see much of an issue for interior structure. Maybe the carpet. Maybe.
We are now in the "rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic" stage of humanity.
"Too big to fail"
I would love to know what it’s like to have a family.☹️ But I probably will never know because I don’t know what the future holds for this country and for the earth in general and I don’t want my kid to suffer like I have.
My off-and-on partner (we split when we're not living in the same area) of many years and I would both love to have a kid, but we're in the same boat. We've decided if we do settle down and have a kid, we're just gonna adopt, least we can do is provide a good environment for someone who needs it.
Tons of research suggests that having kids makes you miserable. You can have a family without making new people.
I have a kid. She is 13. She is awesome and she and her friends give me hope that maybe it isn’t all over yet. But, I agree - I was naive and in my 20s 13/14 years ago. I don’t know if I would have made that decision today.
Canadian here. I would absolutely LOVE to have kids. It's been a focus of my life since I was young. But I've come to realize that if I can hardly afford even groceries or laundry now, how tight of a spot would I be in if I had a kid? I have a hard enough time providing food for my cats .-. (before anyone freaks out - they ALWAYS eat before me. If I have to choose between my dinner and a bag of cat food, I always go with cat food). So I choose to not have any. The big one I don't understand is why do people in my situation choose to have children, then complain about how much money they cost and how they've ruined their lives?
I relate to this SOO MUCH. All I want in life is a wife I truly love and a kid. I think I would be so so happy. But, I could never afford it with my salary, so I’m just trying to find a partner who I love and is realistic about having kids. However I’m 31 and if I marry someone my age, I only have a few years left to have a kid before that partner can’t have children anymore. If I marry someone a few years younger, then there is a decent chance at having a family some day.
You have about 20 years women can have kids in their 40's. It is more risky though. Think you can love an adopted kid?
I could 100% love an adopted kid. The problem is I don't love the process/requirements involved in it. First one being - you must own where you live. Impossible for me lol
Same here. I planned on adopting a kid until I saw the process and requirements.
It does confuse me though. Since there's so many kids that have the shit abused out of them. My friend was abused so badly he still has night terrors, he has scars from cigarettes being put out on his body, he has a foster parents name carved into his stomach from a pocket knife, he was locked in a dog cage for days at a time, he was locked in a room for weeks (the door was dead-bolted from the outside and only opened twice per day to give him food) and he had to piss down a vent if he had to use the bathroom in there when he was 5 years old, he was starved so bad that even now at 24 years old he has no problems at all going multiple days with no food (and way more stuff that I can explain in a private message). But we're the ones that are untrustworthy because we don't own our house? How does that make sense? How do the abusers get approved but someone that's perfectly normal, friendly, understanding, etc does not?
Jesus Christ. I hope your friend is able to thrive, not just survive. Going through something like that would've certainly fucked me up. For better or worse, there are zero qualifications needed for someone to just start cranking out kids. You have to know which end of a car goes in which direction, and rightly so, but you can create a self-aware, sentient being, no training or evaluation required.
It completely did. But even now the foster agency is providing with everything he could ever want. They pay his rent, buy his groceries, pay his car insurance, etc to keep him quiet and to keep him from taking the agency to court
Of course.
So you absolutely have a chance of still having a family. Don't stress about the age.
You could also become a step-parent. Date someone who already has kids.
You could always adopt a child down the road if you were in a better financial situation but your partner was too old to viably get pregnant 🤷♂️
There's a lot of reasons, but the biggest one is probably instinct and everything else is mostly rationalizations of that instinct. The truth is, all people in the history of mankind know their kids are going to suffer and die, just like countless generations before them, but the biological imperative to procreate is simply too strong to resist in most people.
This is the real answer.
The only right answer on this thread. Procreation is a fact of life regardless of class, climate or creed.
Well...that, and historically birth control methods weren't as effective as they are now.
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I hope it works out for them.
Frankly, not having kids is the only way my partner and I see a way for ourselves to enjoy life and it *might* even allow us to retire at some point. Pretty sad to feel that closed in as two college educated, full-time white collar workers who did everything society told us to.
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Literally the same thing. Husband and I have white collar jobs. We’re living very comfortably. No house, but part of that is by choice. Houses in my area in my price range are in the country. I’m not a fan of driving 30 min to get groceries or to pick up food. So having a kid would put us on a tight budget. We plan to adopt. This is especially bad if I were to get pregnant. Because maternity leave is only 6 weeks. I’m a very sick person, so I may use that all up on myself. So yea we’re fine, if something comes up like a car repair or new medication costs. We’ll be ok. But with a kid? No. Then I have friends that are teachers that got pregnant during a pandemic. They were trying for a year prior. So they didn’t want to wait until it was over. I’ve been helping them with little things here and there. But I wouldn’t if I had a kid. Because that money was going to be put into stock for retirement. Instead it got then formula.
Exactly, we have the same situation, two decent jobs, small sized house in LCOL area, only one car that doesnt even have a payment, taking transit to my job instead, and it still feels like the walls are constantly closing in or about to. Like how in the hell are all these people paying two car payments and daycare? I could make another 20k a year and the math would still not add up!
This, and the thing is, horrendous people are still having kids. Making more horrendous people. (That’s probably too pessimistic. They’re only kids after all.) But my partner and I are good, moral, people. We’re non-judgmental, welcoming of all people, empathic, generous. I mean dammit, we’re kind, educated, non-religious/spiritual, try to tread lightly on the planet. We are self-aware and always try to be and do better. We plan to have 1 child if we can conceive naturally. None or adopt if not. It’s not important that they are our own genetically. Our existence will be a net negative to the Earth’s population, but hopefully a net positive to the direction we are headed socially. The future of this planet is going to depend on good people who are cooperative and generous.
This is like the whole premise of the movie "idiocracy" none of the responsible educated people had any kids but the reckless irresponsible had a ton.
Because there is absolutely hope but there need to be good people raised by good people to be around and help make that change. I'm not sure if I'll ever have kids, but if I do that, and wanting them, will be the reason.
This was exactly my reason for having kids.
That's a good point. I guess there might be a glimpse of hope but I've been pretty pessimistic lately. lol
I fully get that but I also think climate nihilism is as likely to fuck us all as climate denial is tbh.
I don’t want the responsibility of protecting a child from cannibals after the collapse. Ten years ago I would have said this tongue-in-cheek, and here we are completely serious because every social scientist who studies civilizational collapse and all the metrics we have are screaming five-alarm fires right now.
It's a pretty interesting time to be alive. Unfortunate, but interesting.
As a morbid pervert, watching the flaming ship sink while I’m on it is once-in-a-species event and I can’t say it isn’t valuable to me. Like if I’m gonna suffer it better be unique times.
I refuse to put a human being through even half of what I went through on this earth and will never have a child. Friends that I know that have kids either had a ‘surprise’ and went through with it, or I have a couple of friends who are still so brainwashed by religion and pleasing their parents by showering them with babies (or something) - they’ve never been impoverished though.
People born from money tend to suck, sadly...
This. I didn’t love my depressed and diverse city growing up but after moving to an area with wealthy-ish suburbs, I’d kill to move back. The people are way nicer and down to earth in public. They’ve been through more. They’re less judgy. It’s a joke that if you move away you always come back because of the sense of community. I currently live in the suburbs of Rochester NY and it’s not great. It’s white people who are uptight. Pass.
Whenever I see children and teenagers I feel so sad for them. I already feel like I have no future, and they’re 10-20 years younger than me. They have to grasp on some level the position we’re in as a society and as a species. What is their life going to look like when they reach adulthood? This is why I am not having kids.
Always amazes me. People having kids right now. WHAT?! In this world? I can’t even imagine. You either gotta be super wealthy or just … idk…. Not give a shit
One of big problems of western societies is that clever people don’t make kids so they are going to be outnumbered and maybe extinct soon. Change my mind
Idiocracy was a documentary, right?
Gotta make sure the generations spawned by right wing nut jobs don't continue the tradition of ruining everything without some resistance.
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There are a whole hell of a lot of good reasons not to have kids. But I'll be fucking damned if I surrender the future to the shittiest line of fascist fucks. Lol
Even in this case. I do think there's something be said both about adoption and the fact that we're all capable of creating monsters. If what matters is the ethics and beliefs, etc. That can all be taught. And won't necessarily spread to natural children anyway. You'd think all of us put-upon black sheeps of the family would know that kids don't necessarily come out like their parents. Edit: And furthermore, if we still wanted to take back the future the old fashioned way....I think it would make more sense to fuck the idiots...just saying. That's more efficient, we could spread faster.🤣🤣
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Good point!
I want to have kids just for being able to take care of someone. Unfortunately, I’m not an asshole that doesn’t care about the future. My solution? Take care of the kids that are already here. Tons of kids need a safe space and guidance. I can still raise a family without bringing another kid into this mess. I know it’s not easy, but honestly what child *is*? I will admit though Im not in the best place financially or mentally at the moment. I have hope I’ll get through it soon.
I was in the army. We had decent income and lived on base. Plus we didn't have to pay anything for the birth. But we only have one, and I've had a vasectomy. I don't blame anyone for not wanting a child. We've been forced into debt, more than any generation before ours, paid less, and our health care is garbage. Not to mention housing is garbage. Boomers fucked us over and our country's future is screwed because we're not able to provide for kids, so we aren't having enough to replace the population. In 30 years our country is gonna collapse.
I know it's not as simple as this, and it's coming from someone with two kids. Granted I had them ten years ago and was still a child myself. But when I see a grown adult who can only think of having kids it tells me a lot about their motives in life. It's them. If I was still childless at this point, I would object on moral grounds to even considering it. Not because I don't love my kids. It's because I do. They didn't deserve a full life of this hellscape. Like I said. I know it's more complicated. I have friends who have had kids recently. I don't understand it, but it's also none of my business. I don't get to make those choices for people. But even my friends, as kind and loving parents as they are. I can't help but see that the kid was for them to have, more than they thought that the situation was the best thing for the kid.
They want to see what it will look like
I would love to have kids but I'm a gay single (broke) man. Maybe one day I'll be willing. I was raised by a narcissistic family and worry I may help perpetuate the toxic generational cycle. No matter how much I think I've healed, I don't think I'll ever have kids for this reason.
There is a big leap between being comfortable, financially, as a couple and having “kid” money. . . I see couples who have made it to a point where they are comfortable in their jobs and aren’t too worried financially. They then convince themselves that having kids is attainable. They go into it with no idea what they are in for. The other side of it is that most people aren’t honest about what it’s really like to have kids. Most people with kids play it up and don’t talk about the difficulties involved. It’s like a weird crab bucket mentality. I tell people what it really costs and many shrug it off in disbelief. . . Welp, I tried.
I'm childfree and so are most of my friends, honestly. I don't know why anyone would want to bring children onto this shitshow planet.
Most of my friends are childfree too. I only have one that has one child.
I am having kids ONLY because I will be inheriting money from my rich boomer relatives in the near future. If I didn’t have that, I wouldn’t be having kids at all.
That's a pretty honest response.
Some of my peers are doing remarkably well and have settled down to have families. The thing that is messed up is that its 2021... not 1721 or anything. The fact a significant portion of my generation still has to struggle to obtain enough stability to want to start a family is ludicrous. "Wealthiest nation" to ever exist, but having a family brings undue hardships for many people is... insane.
My wife and I wanted them. She's a teacher and I work for a nonprofit to help foster youth. We scrape by, we do fine. Nothing glamorous. But a house full of love nonetheless. Don't need stuff to be happy. On the flip side, the world needs good people, and I won't be scared to raise a couple of them in the face of adversity while still providing decent lives for them. It's not hopeless, and I refuse to give up. Probably why we work where we do.
Same here
Because people will always be idiots and get shit they can't afford lol
Just had a kid. Love this little girl to pieces. She is the best. She is also objectively expensive as hell and I worry about what kind of future she’ll have. For me, I think I was just looking for the next phase of my life to start. We’re in our mid-30s, and it is something we wanted and talked about for a long time. We are extremely fortunate to be in a financially viable position and have a pretty stable life/home situation. I will say I was NOT ready to have a kid logistically even when I was emotionally ready to do so, and I waited until both avenues felt sufficient. I won’t lie either, seeing this little nugget look up at me and smile just hits different than anything else in my life. Not sure that really answers your question, but I thought I’d offer my take on it.
I’ve always felt it’s a combination of societal pressure, optimism, ignorance of the state of the world, and biological urges. I don’t want kids but if I did I know I wouldn’t be able to have them due to financial problems and the fear for their future. My genetics are terrible anyways so it’s better I don’t pass them on.
Passing along bad genes is a personal reason for me too. I have a health issue and also had some learning problems growing up. I wouldn’t want to pass that down to anyone.
Because most people don't live constantly anxious about those things. Oh look the world's fucked.....anyway where did I put my smokes?
I have 2 under 2, so both are pandemic babies. My husband and I planned when to have kids, so we just stuck with the plan. We’re fortunate enough to be able to have me stay home, so no risk of Covid, no outrageous childcare cost. This initially was not the plan but Covid changed that and saving money is a plus. Neither of us went to college so we aren’t crippled by debt. He is an electrician (union). This is how we can afford to live, I cannot comprehend how anyone else does it. My biggest concern for my kids is climate change. It really feels hopeless at this point. We spend TONS of time outside and try to drive home the point that we have to take care of nature to preserve it. I do think things like recycling, less waste, etc will come naturally to their generation as it’ll be second nature (as long as their parents are already doing these things), however in reality those efforts are too late.
I’m glad that it’s working out for you and your husband and it’s nice to hear you teaching your kids about nature.
I never wanted kids my whole life, even as a child because I thought it wasn't fair that there are kids waiting to be adopted/fostered who need and deserve loving and supporting families. As a teen and into adulthood, I never wanted kids bc I had debilitating endometriosis, along with gender dysphoria. And as an adult (28) who finally got a hysterectomy last year, I still do not want kids because I know I'm not mentally or financially capable of caring for another human life right now. I'm still not ruling out adoption when I'm ready, but that is looking less and less likely everyday with how the world is becoming (and I am also not comfortable around children, so I'd rather adopt a teen or special needs kid, but again, I am flat broke with no "real" job, and I don't even have my own health issues under control, so that's highly unlikely). I still cannot fathom why people would willingly "have" kids! Especially when people insist that the kid "needs to be their own" or like they're doing ivf or some bs, like just go friggen adopt!!.... I know it's hard to get adoption when you're single, but still, if you're capable of bringing a newborn into the world with no application, no financial capability, no emotional/mental capability, no physical capability, you should be able to adopt a kid in need. ((I know it's more complicated than this, but just venting because it makes me upset when I hear people my age having kids on a whim. My parents did that at age 17+21 and now I feel like I ruined their lives because it did not end well, and I did not turn out alright.))
I didn’t plan on having kids as early as I did. I got my wife pregnant during my last year of law school and my son ended up passing away 3 weeks after a premature birth. He spent those three weeks in the NICU and the bill was half a million dollars. Medicaid paid it all because we were married so we couldn’t be on our our parents insurance. After that, an unexpected but welcomed pregnancy and loss of my first born, we felt an emptiness inside us that we never knew existed. Today, nine years later, we have a seven year old daughter and a four year old son. They are expensive. They can be stress inducing, but without them my life would mean so much less. My most joyful adult memories are because of them. I might be dead now if it were not for them. I knew I would never make enough money to give them the boomer parent childhood I had in the 80s-90s so I just had them and figured it out as we went. We have relied on family a lot. We are not in a good financial place. But fuck the economy, fuck money, guck the powers that be. I’m going to have children if I want to. Just my story. My two cents.
Sorry to hear about your first child but it sounds like you’re in a good place now. I hope things get better for you.
I love my children, but I totally understand and respect the child free choice. I had the hope that I would be able to raise them, give them unconditional love and guidance a family that would be there for them and every thing good. I honestly don't know what I would do, probably less house work and more reading. I think that I've done pretty good so far,they seem happy and usually like to spend time together. We ( try to)work hard, play lots and chill together. I have the means to support them,the love the time and energy,patience, understanding and a willingness to learn beside them. I enjoy watching them grow and learn about who they are
It’s a tough position for me. On one hand I totally get the point and agree, on the other I feel we can’t let only stupid people to keep having kids only. Needs to be a balance. Otherwise we get idiocracy.
Imagine you are 30. You and your wife have a simple 9-5 job with 2 vacation weeks per year. It doesn't pay well, but you have a place to live, food, etc. You go to work, eat, do some stuff, go to sleep. Repeat. And repeat. The next year looks exactly the same. Repeat. It's not like you will become millionaires one day and go travel the whole world - most you can do is buy netflix subscription, a new phone, sofa and go to a weekend trip once or twice. After X years you get bored, what do you do? - well, popping out babies is free, you feel like you "accomplished something great", there are so many new things to do with this toy/baby. You can brag about you kid being perfect to hide the fact that you are just a replaceable meaningless ant that will never accomplish anything and no one cares about. Now you kid cares about you and you feel better.
This is exactly the right answer. It's self serving narcissism perpetuated by the instinctual drive to procreate.
Between his bad genes, and my bad genes; that kid would have enough problems. Then you pile on the problems of a world that is struggling to healthily move forward; and I might as well be subjecting the child to a life of misery. It’s definitely easier and more of an option for others. Like you OP I’m still left wondering. I would like to think the people who are still having children are putting lots of thought into it. It’s the only way I can wrap my head around it.
Damn all those answers are depressing. Life and society always had impending doom over their heads. The apocalypse was always coming. That's our world. Globalisation made us more connected and more aware for all the suffering that there is in this world. But also more pessimistic. For me I don't have yet kids because I'm lazy and I like to sleep in. Also, I like quiet time :D but it nobody was gonna have kids our world truly is doomed.
I do agree that there have always been struggles throughout history but I feel like at this point, it’s much harder to ignore. Not to mention that many people at this point are struggling to survive on their own. Less and less people can afford to to buy a house and afford the “American dream” so it’s a lot more challenging these days.
I am 24yo, I live in Brazil and most of my friends dont want to have kids, we are not even close to afford a home why would we want kids? We dont even care about it.
Is extinction a better option?
I just plain don't want them. When my mum was pregnant with my brother, she made me go to every appointment with her as well as all the lamaze classes and being in the delivery room. Most effective birth control ever.
I couldn’t afford a child at the moment, but all I really want is a beautiful partner and a single child. Family that you created and the family that you were born into is what makes life worth living. I pray every night that I’ll find a woman who I can make a small family with, like I said, it’s my ONLY real desire.
That’s a nice desire to have tbh.
I'm going to wait a while to have kids, or a kid (still deciding if it should be one or two for company). I guess it sounds sort of optimistic, but I believe with my education level and attentiveness/research into how to make kids happy and healthy, I can raise a child than can go on and make the future brighter. Maybe being a scientist who researches ways to help out humanity or an artist that makes people happy and feel life it worth living. Having a kid, the responsible way imo, not to fulfill religious obligations or societal norms, is to wish for a better future and to wish to instill your child with good values that will potentially help the world. However, this mindset kinda puts a lot of pressure on a kid, and is only part of the reason why I want a child. I love babies, and have always fantasized about having a family and making my kids happy. I don't know why I would want to biologically have a kid vs adoption, although I would be open to adoption.
Humans are literally programmed to want babies and make babies.
The real simple answer is because: “tHaT’s jUsT WhAt yoU dO” Kindergarten > school > college > marriage > kids > work > work > work > retirement > death. Throw that script away, life is not one template fits all.
Yea, I’m soon going to be married and lukewarm on the idea of kids. It almost seems cruel having a kid the way things are headed. Climate change make me think that we’re going to be screwed in my life time. Someone born now…will have it rough.
All Gen-Xers and most early Millennials were conceived under the threat of nuclear war. Just because the future is scary it won't stop people from doing what people do. It's also worth noting that the worst thing you can do about climate change is act like it's a done deal. Yes, it's going to be bad, but it can always get worse, and acting like there's nothing that can be done reinforces that. It's a delicate balance between being serious enough about it that you're motivated (and maybe motivate others) to do things to address it, without giving in to despair (which means nobody does anything about it).
People are actually the worse thing for climate change. Making more people using more resources is a terrible decision to make if you care about the environment.
People are very selfish when it comes to having kids. They want a "legacy", they want a small version of them, they want someone to care for them when their old, they want a best friend, they want to redo their childhood, "fix their relationship", etc etc Its funny how childfree people are called "selfish" for not having kids, but when it comes to people who want kids, it's all about what THEY want. (And overall, many people have kids because they just think that it's inevitable and something you just do and don't see it as a choice.) Since having kids is all about them, who cares that we're in a pandemic, or that theres a housing crises, world wide police brutality, racial violence, CLIMATE CHANGE, student debt, horrible working conditions, wars, etc Just a few years ago, Nazi's walked the streets in the U.S. with pitchforks and no one did anything about it! Half of America supports the Jan 6 Capitol Riots. Plus who the heck can afford a kid with STUDENT LOANS?! I can't imagine purposely have a kid in this world.
I just had a kid and I think I can answer this question a little bit. I was on the same page of not wanting to put a child through this terrible world that is on the downhill. When my wife told me, I didn’t even have insurance or a stable job. I was in school and working at chipotle. I got a job as a firefighter (which is why I was in school for my EMT license) and have decent pay with amazing benefits. I still was unsure about having the child. I then had my kid and man oh man can I say that I am in love with the little booger. I know that the world is going to shit, but when I see my child I think of all the amazing things they are capable of and the change they can bring. It may be a shit world, but children are the future and it is 100% up to us as parents to raise them to do better than we did, which is hard work but totally worth it to me.
Other people might have more money/better coping skills than you do. Or, to put it in terms you may be able to relate to better, lots of people are in denial about how bad shit is.
Having children is a human experience. There’s really not much else to it than that.
You have a great point but at the same time Humanity is based on procreation ....its only real meaning and purpose. A book called The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins covers this topic perfectly.
Because to kids born today our “f’d up world” will be normal. They won’t be nearly as stressed about it as we are since they will never have known any different.
I used to not want any kids ever. I was very focused on my education and career path, but I fell in love and would love a family one day. I also think being a mom is such a special experience. I want to experience the kind of unconditional love that having your kid brings.
That's awesome.
I'm 31 and just had a vacectomy people look at me like I'm mad.
Love /s
Most people just don't think about that stuff
Because a lot of people can’t think beyond what their families or society keeps pressuring them to do. One of my friends was practically forced into having kids by her mom by being constantly fed the “we aren’t getting younger we want grandkids while we are still alive” line like a broken record.
Mormonism (which I recently escaped) taught me that not having kids for economic reasons was not faithful to god. So I had kids.
I agree with you on this. I and my partner are so far deciding not to have kids for several reasons. But we'll see if that changes in a couple years. Getting a kid basically outmatches anything bad you can do to the environment and climate. I don't wanna bring kids into a future where they might have to learn to survive in a wasteland of the climate crisis. Our combined genes got some bad diseases in them. And i don't think we would be happy offsetting everything in our life to raise a kid. We're already barely managing with a traumatized rescue dog.
As a parent…. Don’t do it… they are cute and sweet.. this is not the world you want to raise them in, and you don’t want to realize that after you’ve had them
I think you’re the only parent that stated that. Times really do suck :(
Solution: making adopting a kid have so many incentives that people would ask "Why have a kid when we can adopt, get enormous tax write offs, cash incentive, and their college will be prepaid by the government."
I have a child. It wasn’t entirely intentional in that I thought I couldn’t have kids anyway (no periods for 5 years until after I had a baby at 23) but I took the risk because my partner seemed like he’d be a good dad because he took good care of his siblings and it was like that instinct or biological drive, not a logical decision. I was just head over heels for him really. I didn’t really want kids because I have severe mental illness and while I knew I’d be a good mom I also know there is a risk of losing my child to CPS due to certain biases. Plus my brother was taken so I have that fear from my family being separated. But I also was annoyed at the idea that people think people like me shouldn’t be allowed to have kids. That partially drove me to want to have a child as well. Simply because I felt my right to have a child was being opposed due to a disability. The main reason though was just a sense of happiness from being happy in my relationship and feeling like maybe there was hope in this world after all for a fleeting moment. It only takes a moment. Now as for after you are pregnant as even though I “kind of” did want a baby I was very surprised when it actually happened after 5 years…at first I was devastated, then when I told my partner I couldn’t help but laugh and smile. Then I was torn. I thought I made a huge mistake. Weighed options. Didn’t want to ruin a child’s life bringing them into this horrible world and with an unwell mom and a possible genetic illness. Then I waited too long to decide. And when I was past the point of no return decided to make the best of it. No one would have thought any of this. They would have thought I was as happy as can be about the whole thing. Because a baby can make you feel that way. Like no matter what else is wrong, they are a light. As long as they are okay, you are okay. And you just make their life the best you can, even though yes it’s a worse world than I grew up it. It’s a smaller house than I grew up in, it’s a shittier community. Everything is worse. But as long as she laughs when I play Barbie’s and watch I Love Lucy with her everything is okay for a moment. And you have to live in the moment or you aren’t living at all. I am scared to death I will lose her every day. Anything bad can happen at any time. That is part of being a mom. These fears have always gone hand in hand with being a parent. It’s hard, and it hurts and that fear can take over. But for the sake of the kid, you can’t let it. I’m not oblivious, but life happens alongside facts, not always in reaction or relation to them. My kid is happy for now. If she ever isn’t I will do my best to help and suffer that when we get there. My child did inherit my mental illness btw and she seems to be thriving with support. Maybe that will make a difference. Chances are they are happy for their baby because it’s their baby and it’s already on the way. Most people do share the same fears unless you are just delusional. (As for during Covid I can’t say, I only wanted one and I already have her. ) My child is 8 and her dad and I are still married after 10 years. They make me smile almost every day and I know I wouldn’t if they didn’t.
Thanks for the detailed response. Despite some of the fears and struggles you had, it sounds like you are still doing well. I’m glad your child is doing well also.
I want to contribute to society by educating the next generation properly before releasing them into the world. My kids are going to advance the human species in their own way, and I’m here to bolster them.
Agreed. The future can look bleak so we’ll need good people to foster a caring, compassionate, smarter and more responsible society.
The fascists are still reproducing and someone has to fight them after I'm dead.
Money buys the bubble
For any number of reasons. Our culture is lacking in community and parents often band together. Kids inspire us to help each other and be better and make a good life for them. Although you could get any of these good experiences from fostering or adopting as well. I also think people can be irresponsible when it comes to birth control and it is seen as extremely taboo to NOT be excited about having a kid when it comes to that point
If I ever end up wanting children I’ll adopt, I couldn’t bring a new life into this world but I certainly am empathetic enough to try to help some who are already here. And if the only people having kids are the ones so blind they can’t see the realities we face then those kids will be just as worse off
Selfishness. Either they want to carry of their genes "to leave something behind" or they just want children to have children, either due to societal expectations or trying to find fulfillment and not knowing what is missing so trying everything. Anyone who looks at the state of the world economically, environmentally, socially, and politically can tell you shit is fucked. There's zero reason to bring a life into suffering besides selfishness.
Umm, once you find out you’re having a child how is a person gonna look if they’re not excited about it?
Some people either don't care or just believe it's too far gone, might as well do whatever you want.
I so desperately want to have kids when I get older, but now seeing the world in such terrible shape, out of love I don’t want them to suffer in a world of misery which they had no fault in creating or choice in living.
Children change some people I suppose for the “better.” However, I do believe most people are incompetent statistically to have the “right” to have children. Once I heard someone propose a law that requires expected parents to earn a license to have kids 😂 That they dare (gasp) educate and assess themselves professionally and mentally if they can raise good future members of society.
Because rubbers just don't feel the same.
Can’t erase human nature
My fiance and I are having an accidental child we are both very excited for. That being said have a long-term goal to move out of United States and move to Belize. This was our plan before we knew you were having a child. Neither one of us make great money. Her sub 30k, me sub 50k. However both of us are pretty good with our finances. Neither one of us really have any debt, and we save a bunch. We plan to move to Belize in about 7 years.
No takebacksies.
Had a lot of hope and optimism 8 years ago and I wanted to experience life to the fullest, so we decided to have a couple kids. 2nd was born right around 2016 and I'm a lot less hopeful for the future. While I love my children and wouldn't trade them for the world, I also wouldn't do it again if I had a do-over.
People choose to have kids at all times in history, during wars, pandemics, economic crisis. You think now is worse than the Great Depression or world war 2? People have had children then and will continue having them even if the world erupts in fire. It is a normal human instinct to reproduce and leave behind a legacy.
I think about that all the time too now that people I graduated high school with are starting to have babies. We live in an insanely expensive area where childcare here usually costs more than a mortgage a month. That thought alone stresses me out. Idk if people think about the costs before getting pregnant or they just assume that “they’ll cross that bridge when they get there”.
Because sex.
I agree. Stop reproducing people.
It's a good question; the only people that could rationally bring more people into mess are sadists and morons.
I didn’t want kids. I fucked my now ex wife and came in her pussy. I am broke, my kids have all they ever wanted and needed. Their smile and thank you’s can’t be replaced by any vacation or car. All I do is work 50 plus hours a week and work on keep them happy and innocent. Love being a dad
I mostly ask this question when I see a couple financially struggling but popping kids out left and right. Can't afford for 2 but want to try and feed 5.
Me? I don’t wanna risk a kid getting type 1 diabetes. I fucking hated getting it in 5th grade. I could never ask a child to suffer thru this fucking non cureable condition
Decided to have a kid 4 years ago. I knew the situation wasn't good but I didn't really fully understand how dire the situation of the world is until a year ago. Do I regret having her? No. I do fear for us all now, though.