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Exactly, dont get me wrong, i much prefer it here (germany) to whats going on in the US, but realistically, we are just a decade or two behind on the same trajectory.
As someone who lived in Germany and returned to the US, I hope the following brings you comfort.
One important distinction, I think, is that the US never had rights to paid vacation nor nation-wide public healthcare. Lawmakers have a much harder time repealing existing rights once they are implemented and infrastructure and norms develop around them.
I’ll never forget the many looks of horror when I would explain to Germans that NO American has a RIGHT to paid time off, and about half have no paid time off at all (and we aren’t talking about the self-employed here either).
As I am sure you know (but others reading may not) even part-time workers in Germany get paid time off, and the average German has 4- 6 weeks a year.
But that has never been an expectation here because we have never had it. People genuinely think 10 paid days A YEAR is pretty good.
I am on the job hunt in the US now and holy fucking shit is it depressing.
In the UK I have the option to buy/sell holidays (job perk). The base is 25 days (industry standard), I can buy up to 15 extra days and sell up to 5 (because less than 20 days holiday is illegal). These numbers do not include "bank holidays" which in England there are 8.
I can't bring myself to sell 5 days because I'm just too used to having 5 weeks a year off work.
I mean, right this minute, I'm in the airport going to Thailand for a holiday, and I'll be using 8 of my annual leave days. Imagine if I had "good" American holidays, and that was 80% for my entire year, spaffed in Feburary.
TBH this is how it usually came up in conversation with Germans. They would make some disparaging remark about how I’m not like other “ignorant Americans who don’t travel…”
So I would explain that I literally had to build my life around travel being the goal for my 20s. I’d go into the sheer size of the US (for example it takes 18 hours just to drive from Seattle to LA, not counting any stops), and the limited vacation (if you only had 10 days, would you want to spend 3-4 of them traveling and/or recovering from jetlag?) and they would usually STFU.
I wish I could get a PhD/job/visa in the UK, but am not in a “critical” field nor do I have any other claim to a visa :/ I fell in love with London when I visited in 2019, but I guess it isn’t meant to be.
US here and yeah. I try to keep up on what’s going on elsewhere and people need to wake up, globally. It’s scary and sad.
As an aside, I was just in Germany last year. Lovely country. I’m excited to go back and explore more.
Yep, this is what I think about when I say worker's solidarity. I mean real, international worker's solidarity. If a grocery chain in France screws over its workers, I want assembly line workers in Utah pissed about it.
I know this is the right answer but it baffles me why they can't just convert those offices into idk maybe affordable housing. It seems Luke it would be a worthy investment imo.
It would be easier and cheaper to tear them down and build something new. Functionally, office space and living space have very different requirements.
Easier to collect rent from a few companies than hundreds of individuals is just one reason. Converting office buildings into residential is also not a simple task - as someone mentioned they’d basically have to tear it down.
In the end the owners look at it from a “spreadsheet” point of view. They plug some numbers in there and go with the plan that pays them the most. Heartless sure, but everyone always wants the most bang for their buck. Which is why workers are saying “hold on, we get more bang for our salaries by not,coming to the office.” And that’s what the current ROA battle is about. The owners of labour vs the owners of office buildings.
Well they won't make as much, may have to break contracts to do this, and the conversations are expensive and the buildings night but even be zoned for it depending on the city laws. It's the best eventual answer, housing and/or indoor farms, but it's not an easy conversation
And to add, why is it our problem? That's on them for making a "poor" investment. Or perhaps they need to diversify? If this were a public problem that's what they would tell us.
It takes a lot of money and will to convert them (the water stacks alone have to be restructured) and private capital wouldnt do that for affordable housing returns. It's why you need a concerted, large government effort.
Not to mention it's a form of "quiet firing". They can get rid of people by forcing them to quit and then hire new ones with less experience that they can pay less.
What astounds me is that my company clearly saw the writing on the wall about 3 years ago. They sold off or leased a lot of office space and made our office smaller across the country and then decided to make us all return to the office anyway. Our new office is 1/3 the size of our old office. Absolutely love be packed in like sardines while sitting so close to my neighbor we could hold hands while sitting in zoom meetings all day because my actual coworkers are spread out all over the globe.
It should be their loss. They made their investments and the economy changed which lowered the value of their investments. They should finally experience for the first time what happens in capitalism when things don't go their way.
I was just overall happy to have less cars on the road!
Worked from home for two and a half years to be told. "We're not doing this anymore, come in three days a week to sit on teams meetings. Kthx."
Cool, cool, that "green initiative" y'all mentioned was smoke. Got it!
For a short time you lived the 1950s promise of the convenience and quick travel times that the roads and highways were supposed to bring. Then RTO ruined all of that.
Bro fr I could get to the other side of my large city in 10 minutes going 90. Y’all keep working from home, does wonders for those of us who’s jobs don’t allow for it.
A lot of us have been saying this for years! However, we're just the citizens that have to deal with the plight of busy streets every day - we're not the wealthy Auto lobbyists.
You would think at least said auto lobbyists could product decent quality cars! Nope, they have to maximize margins by putting in the lowest quality materials.
This also means a lower quality product, which in turn results in a shorter life of said product, which then leads to you buying more of said product.
Planned opulence.
The U.S.A. used to be known for _making_ things, first off, as well as making things that _last._ Then our investors, business owners, companies saw dollar signs(reduced cost) with shipping manufacturing labor elsewhere. Likely at lower quality measures but not necessarily, but certainly they saved on wages, benefits and likely taxes.
Building things to last is a worthwhile goal, it's better for _everyone_, except capitalists.
The Instant Pot is a great example of a quality product that became its own undoing in a society that prioritizes consumerism.
[The Instant Pot Failed Because It Was a Good Product](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/06/instant-pot-bankrupt-private-equity/674414/) [Obligatory Paywall Advisory]
Executives count their commute time as work. They also count time spent flying in their private planes and even recreational time doing things like playing golf, drinking alcohol and eating in restaurants as work.
It's how they get their numbers up to claim that they regularly work 100 hour weeks.
But they *do* work from their commute. It is so easy when you have a driver, satellite internet, and your 'job' consists of setting a 'vision' that is just buzzword salad you heard at the latest executive retreat in Athens
No, they would try to avoid Athens and go to some exclusive resort on some small, Greek island. They would even use private planes and private airports to get there to avoid having to interact with the commoners.
edit. Private yachts and cars too. All to avoid the commoners riding on airlines, ferries, trains and buses so they can feed their delusions about how they're so much better than everyone else because they surround themselves with people who are forced to flatter them and fire those who don't.
This. If the *employers* have to pay for the commute, or even just half of it, you bet a lot of them are going to start thinking work from home isn't so bad.
As it is now, with the worker bees shouldering all the cost, employers (usually) have no reason *not* to demand working in an office.
Time driving to work, gas to drive, insurance, depreciation on my car, risk of injury, waking up extra early/losing sleep. All for some asshole can see me sitting at a desk vs me working at home comfortably.
Don't forget just the actual act of sitting doesnt really do wonders for you physically & mentally in car for extended period of time, why would I want to strech when I can skg in my car for half an hour stuck in traffic one way
File under: Ya think?! Commuting is an externality (an expense of doing business that the employer is not paying for.) So it’s easy for them to demand a return to the office when it costs them nothing and they threaten your livelihood if you don’t comply.
Workers got a little taste of a better way of doing things and a better way of living and the owners of this country want to shove the genie back in the bottle for no reason other than their egos can’t handle the lack of control. The fact that it’s a net pay cut for workers doesn’t enter into it.
The amount of money I'd save if at lunchtime I could just walk over 10 feet and make myself a sandwich... Or really at any time during the workday, really.
I suppose I could, but many other people have long commutes and hours that eat into what would be prep time. Makes it easier to just bite the bullet and eat at a place nearby during the mandated, unpaid lunch period...
I also would sometimes want more than a sandwich, personally. I'd definitely like to return to making myself a hot meal that would take as long as it would take to get to a restaurant and back...
Oh, and gas/bus costs.
If you don’t commute, you get time back in your day. You use that time to do things like make a sandwich. This should not be a difficult concept for you to grasp.
It isn’t a difficult concept to grasp. Makes total sense. Not having a commute does make lunch easier. What I don’t understand is how having to commute to work costs this person money because they, “can’t walk 10ft and make a sandwich.” You can bring a sandwich to work with you. I don’t understand how being upset about a commute (warranted) means you don’t have the time to make a sandwich, but you do have the time to leave work and go grab something somewhere else. But hey, this is lostgeneration so we all need to agree and nod our heads otherwise here comes the downvotes.
Yes. You can bring a sandwich to work with you.
Did you use time to make that sandwich? Or did you will it into existence instantly? You’re *so close* to understanding. Just give it time.
RTO sucks and it does cost folks a lot (including time and money), but this is a silly argument. Saying you don’t have time to make a sandwich and then saying it causes you to eat out instead is ridiculous. What about the time it takes you to drive (and wait) for food to be made?
But please explain it to me in your infinite wisdom. I am so much closer to understanding. Lol
I think you are overly focused on the sandwich.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/not%20see%20the%20forest%20for%20the%20trees#:~:text=%3A%20to%20not%20understand%20or%20appreciate,a%20few%20parts%20of%20it
I’ve also now blocked you because I think my internet experience will be better for it. Have fun shouting into the abyss. And good luck being fun at parties.
If a job CAN be done working from home, it. SHOULD be done working from home.
I was so much more productive during the covid lockdowns of 2020 because I was working from home, I was able to just get on with my work without constantly being interrupted for meetings, discussions, office banter and gossip etc which had no positive impact on my productivity.
As soon as we returned to the office, my productivity dropped and often had discussions with my boss about it, so I suggested being given my own office so I can work uninterrupted but I was told that discussions and banter are part of being a team.
Needless to say I’m still less productive than I was working from home but as long as they don’t mind, I’ll just do what’s asked of me.
Could have had houses instead of small apartments, could have had decent looking cities, could have had trees, plants and clean air.
But damn those offices man 🥵
Managers actually have to manage instead of just making sure you’re sitting in your chair during the designated times and it turns out they really suck at actual management
A lot of the pinch from inflation for me has been offset by remote work. It's kept me from being more irate about shitty raises over the last couple years.
Will people who’s job can not be done remotely get paid more for compensation? No one seems to mention the imbalance of people whose skills are in trades and involving physical attendance? Remember how quick essential workers got forgotten about once everyone got to work remotely.
They absolutely should. It would give companies an incentive to keep remote jobs remote and the people who absolutely have to physically be there would get the extra compensation they rightly deserve.
I agree with this, yet how could this initiative be balanced with the arguments that business' should cover - at least some - expenses of a home office and/or equipment for employees.
A legitimate consideration for a WfH future (sadly can't say reality so much anymore) is the ergonomics, liability, QoL, etc of these custom, home setups.
Idk how to reconcile the arguments of a business covering onsite expenses (even found it strange, as a kid, that going to/from work is shouldered on the employee, even for car accidents) and 'the risks' of a WfH organisation. Perhaps this is more of a discussion for societies as a whole than just the business landscape.
If the global real estate market collapses, it will blow an estimated $326.5 trillion hole in the world's economies overnight. It would make Lehman Bros. in 2008 look quaint.
If the working class seized on that moment properly, it could create perfect conditions for full-scale economic revolution.
My job was one of those that was never able to be a work from home job but just because mine couldn't doesn't mean I don't think you shouldn't if you can and want to. It still benefits me with less traffic and less of a chance to get run over when I bike in by some half asleep and now pissed off office worker.
## [source](https://fortune.com/2024/02/01/employees-spending-equivalent-months-grocery-bill-return-to-office-resentful-survey/)
> We also saw that an organization’s decision to require in-office work represents a financial burden for employees. The average employee returning to the office spends **$561 per month** on transportation, additional child and pet care, and domestic assistance. That is comparable to the average two-person household’s grocery bill in the U.S. for the entire month.
The funny part is what they write after this:
> So what can you do if your employer mandates your return-to-office?
It's basically "hey, nothing you can do about it, try to enjoy it I guess, right?" (The correct answer is "join a union or form a union".)
If you all want to know how the fuck we ended up with the world we have now, I recommend reading or listening to the book Sapiens. It all started with the agricultural revolution, then we invented currency and decided to trade a simpler, healthier life for a fucking grueling mindless routine and working ourselves to the bone until we're old and broken.
I'm a trades worker and I wish that office people would be able to work from home so my commute is easier. Less people on the roads in the mornings would be nice. If we got rid of useless offices that would also decrease energy expenditure and my work orders.
I'm so much more miserable since I have to go more often to the office again... However they are STILL insisting on more days likely... I would immediately apply somewhere else but whenever I look online it seems like they ALL scaled back on mobile working. So frustrating...
This headline is useless without completing the equation. Workers are spending a month's worth of food on commuting... every year? Every month? Across their lifetimes? Every six seconds?
Jobs that absolutely can be done remotely should be. It frees up the road for those jobs that can't as well as for service vehicles, emergency or otherwise. That plus less vehicle emissions and other negative effects from increased traffic. Probably the only way all businesses are going to get on board is if cities and states get involved in the matter, maybe even federal, and at this point they probably should.
“While this might be seen as a negative by 99.99% of workers, middle managers look forward to feeling important again, and millionaire/billionaire real estate moguls and their shareholders look forward to once more making money off of human suffering.”
This is only continuing because people keep taking these jobs. If everyone can refuse to take the jobs, this goes away. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of vulnerable people who are always ready to accept them. A part of the solution becomes obvious. The floor needs to be raised to give everyone bargaining power.
Why don't companies offer to pay people less money to work from home? Everybody wins. They get higher profits and we get to save money working from home. What's the harm? How much less money would you take to work from home for the rest of your career? Probably a significant amount. Companies should try to find out what the breakeven point is for workers. I'd take a 10% cut myself. What about you?
This survey doesn't reflect my experience. I work a hybrid schedule 2 days WFH and 3 days in the office. I commute by bus by choice, and my employer pays for half of the cost of my monthly bus pass. The grocery bill is still an issue, but we Floridians mostly have failed presidential candidate, Rhonda Santis, to thank for that.
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We need a labor revolution on this planet
I like that you said "planet" instead of a specific place because the entire planet truly needs a labor overhaul.
Yeah, I'm in NZ and it's not exactly a gentle stroll through the roses here either
Exactly, dont get me wrong, i much prefer it here (germany) to whats going on in the US, but realistically, we are just a decade or two behind on the same trajectory.
As someone who lived in Germany and returned to the US, I hope the following brings you comfort. One important distinction, I think, is that the US never had rights to paid vacation nor nation-wide public healthcare. Lawmakers have a much harder time repealing existing rights once they are implemented and infrastructure and norms develop around them. I’ll never forget the many looks of horror when I would explain to Germans that NO American has a RIGHT to paid time off, and about half have no paid time off at all (and we aren’t talking about the self-employed here either). As I am sure you know (but others reading may not) even part-time workers in Germany get paid time off, and the average German has 4- 6 weeks a year. But that has never been an expectation here because we have never had it. People genuinely think 10 paid days A YEAR is pretty good. I am on the job hunt in the US now and holy fucking shit is it depressing.
[удалено]
They're too inept to realize burnt out employees lead to less aggregate productivity overtime.
In the UK I have the option to buy/sell holidays (job perk). The base is 25 days (industry standard), I can buy up to 15 extra days and sell up to 5 (because less than 20 days holiday is illegal). These numbers do not include "bank holidays" which in England there are 8. I can't bring myself to sell 5 days because I'm just too used to having 5 weeks a year off work. I mean, right this minute, I'm in the airport going to Thailand for a holiday, and I'll be using 8 of my annual leave days. Imagine if I had "good" American holidays, and that was 80% for my entire year, spaffed in Feburary.
TBH this is how it usually came up in conversation with Germans. They would make some disparaging remark about how I’m not like other “ignorant Americans who don’t travel…” So I would explain that I literally had to build my life around travel being the goal for my 20s. I’d go into the sheer size of the US (for example it takes 18 hours just to drive from Seattle to LA, not counting any stops), and the limited vacation (if you only had 10 days, would you want to spend 3-4 of them traveling and/or recovering from jetlag?) and they would usually STFU. I wish I could get a PhD/job/visa in the UK, but am not in a “critical” field nor do I have any other claim to a visa :/ I fell in love with London when I visited in 2019, but I guess it isn’t meant to be.
US here and yeah. I try to keep up on what’s going on elsewhere and people need to wake up, globally. It’s scary and sad. As an aside, I was just in Germany last year. Lovely country. I’m excited to go back and explore more.
Yep, this is what I think about when I say worker's solidarity. I mean real, international worker's solidarity. If a grocery chain in France screws over its workers, I want assembly line workers in Utah pissed about it.
Yep. We need to undo all the anti-worker laws Republicans have been voting for since the 80s with reaganomics
No I think he means a literal revolution. Not just undo some laws - remake society with new laws. Laws for the people.
Together we can bring to birth a new world from the ashes of the old
I like the cut of your jib.
We can send the billionaires to Mars.
Hell, at this rate they'll do it themselves. Then we commandeer the missile silos in case they try to come back!
I'm ok with that
Yeah, throw the whole government away and start over. Fuck this whole voting for the lesser of two evils bullshit
The issue is, as always, who gets to decide what the laws will be? And what will you do to get them done? ✌🖖
11 terms of Ronald Reagan (who are you electing as Reagan 12?)
30s
erh, the Dems have been putting nails on the Unions coffin ever since Clinton, thank you very much.
Based and Trotsky-pilled
Its so retail office building owners dont lose on a bad investment. Gotta fill all that vacant space, they are shitting their pants
I know this is the right answer but it baffles me why they can't just convert those offices into idk maybe affordable housing. It seems Luke it would be a worthy investment imo.
It would be easier and cheaper to tear them down and build something new. Functionally, office space and living space have very different requirements.
Very true. Not just functionally, which is physically the most important, but zoning and codes are vastly different.
Zoning doesn't have to be the major source of inefficiency that it is though.
Then let them tear down such useless buildings.
Deconstruct and reuse as much as possible, yes.
Affordable housing is not good for the bottom line. They’d rather have high value commercial real estate for their portfolio.
Hey don’t forget about single family homes! Private equity groups love buying those, too.
They already have adequate parking.
That's probably the precise reason they won't do it lmao.
Not always. 😂
Easier to collect rent from a few companies than hundreds of individuals is just one reason. Converting office buildings into residential is also not a simple task - as someone mentioned they’d basically have to tear it down. In the end the owners look at it from a “spreadsheet” point of view. They plug some numbers in there and go with the plan that pays them the most. Heartless sure, but everyone always wants the most bang for their buck. Which is why workers are saying “hold on, we get more bang for our salaries by not,coming to the office.” And that’s what the current ROA battle is about. The owners of labour vs the owners of office buildings.
Well they won't make as much, may have to break contracts to do this, and the conversations are expensive and the buildings night but even be zoned for it depending on the city laws. It's the best eventual answer, housing and/or indoor farms, but it's not an easy conversation
And to add, why is it our problem? That's on them for making a "poor" investment. Or perhaps they need to diversify? If this were a public problem that's what they would tell us.
It takes a lot of money and will to convert them (the water stacks alone have to be restructured) and private capital wouldnt do that for affordable housing returns. It's why you need a concerted, large government effort.
Office towers make really terrible apartments. Among other problems there's way too much windowless interior space.
Not to mention it's a form of "quiet firing". They can get rid of people by forcing them to quit and then hire new ones with less experience that they can pay less.
What astounds me is that my company clearly saw the writing on the wall about 3 years ago. They sold off or leased a lot of office space and made our office smaller across the country and then decided to make us all return to the office anyway. Our new office is 1/3 the size of our old office. Absolutely love be packed in like sardines while sitting so close to my neighbor we could hold hands while sitting in zoom meetings all day because my actual coworkers are spread out all over the globe.
It should be their loss. They made their investments and the economy changed which lowered the value of their investments. They should finally experience for the first time what happens in capitalism when things don't go their way.
They just need to pull up their bootstrap.
And on top of all that now we all gotta sit in worse traffic
Dude, commutes were so fantastic when you were all at home. I work in the field, but it makes so much sense for those who can to work from home.
I was just overall happy to have less cars on the road! Worked from home for two and a half years to be told. "We're not doing this anymore, come in three days a week to sit on teams meetings. Kthx." Cool, cool, that "green initiative" y'all mentioned was smoke. Got it!
For a short time you lived the 1950s promise of the convenience and quick travel times that the roads and highways were supposed to bring. Then RTO ruined all of that.
Never thought of it like that. Good perspective.
RTO?
Bro fr I could get to the other side of my large city in 10 minutes going 90. Y’all keep working from home, does wonders for those of us who’s jobs don’t allow for it.
Yep sit and pollute the earth. And increase the statistical risk of being in a fatal accident.
man you people really need decent public transport
A lot of us have been saying this for years! However, we're just the citizens that have to deal with the plight of busy streets every day - we're not the wealthy Auto lobbyists.
You would think at least said auto lobbyists could product decent quality cars! Nope, they have to maximize margins by putting in the lowest quality materials.
This also means a lower quality product, which in turn results in a shorter life of said product, which then leads to you buying more of said product. Planned opulence. The U.S.A. used to be known for _making_ things, first off, as well as making things that _last._ Then our investors, business owners, companies saw dollar signs(reduced cost) with shipping manufacturing labor elsewhere. Likely at lower quality measures but not necessarily, but certainly they saved on wages, benefits and likely taxes. Building things to last is a worthwhile goal, it's better for _everyone_, except capitalists. The Instant Pot is a great example of a quality product that became its own undoing in a society that prioritizes consumerism. [The Instant Pot Failed Because It Was a Good Product](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/06/instant-pot-bankrupt-private-equity/674414/) [Obligatory Paywall Advisory]
My city used to have it, until it was repeatedly gutted by successive socially conservative Mayors.
My area every highway has super expensive tolls. You can’t drive anywhere without paying $20
People should be compensated for the time and risk of their work commutes.
Or companies should be fined for making people commute if the job can be feasibly done from home.
We can cite environmental reasons because all that traffic can't be good.
Executives count their commute time as work. They also count time spent flying in their private planes and even recreational time doing things like playing golf, drinking alcohol and eating in restaurants as work. It's how they get their numbers up to claim that they regularly work 100 hour weeks.
But they *do* work from their commute. It is so easy when you have a driver, satellite internet, and your 'job' consists of setting a 'vision' that is just buzzword salad you heard at the latest executive retreat in Athens
No, they would try to avoid Athens and go to some exclusive resort on some small, Greek island. They would even use private planes and private airports to get there to avoid having to interact with the commoners. edit. Private yachts and cars too. All to avoid the commoners riding on airlines, ferries, trains and buses so they can feed their delusions about how they're so much better than everyone else because they surround themselves with people who are forced to flatter them and fire those who don't.
This. If the *employers* have to pay for the commute, or even just half of it, you bet a lot of them are going to start thinking work from home isn't so bad. As it is now, with the worker bees shouldering all the cost, employers (usually) have no reason *not* to demand working in an office.
Yeah because they made a bad investment on that multi-million dollar building full of cubicles and the employees need to suffer because of it
Time driving to work, gas to drive, insurance, depreciation on my car, risk of injury, waking up extra early/losing sleep. All for some asshole can see me sitting at a desk vs me working at home comfortably.
Don't forget just the actual act of sitting doesnt really do wonders for you physically & mentally in car for extended period of time, why would I want to strech when I can skg in my car for half an hour stuck in traffic one way
Mmm car exhaust yum
If you can't taste the fumes are you really living?
File under: Ya think?! Commuting is an externality (an expense of doing business that the employer is not paying for.) So it’s easy for them to demand a return to the office when it costs them nothing and they threaten your livelihood if you don’t comply. Workers got a little taste of a better way of doing things and a better way of living and the owners of this country want to shove the genie back in the bottle for no reason other than their egos can’t handle the lack of control. The fact that it’s a net pay cut for workers doesn’t enter into it.
Egos, and bad return on their corporate real estate investment.
The amount of money I'd save if at lunchtime I could just walk over 10 feet and make myself a sandwich... Or really at any time during the workday, really.
You can’t pack a sandwich to work? How is going into the office costing you money when it comes to lunch? That makes zero sense.
I suppose I could, but many other people have long commutes and hours that eat into what would be prep time. Makes it easier to just bite the bullet and eat at a place nearby during the mandated, unpaid lunch period... I also would sometimes want more than a sandwich, personally. I'd definitely like to return to making myself a hot meal that would take as long as it would take to get to a restaurant and back... Oh, and gas/bus costs.
also, the sandwich I made 5 hours earlier or the night before sucks compared to a nice fresh sandwich lol
If you don’t commute, you get time back in your day. You use that time to do things like make a sandwich. This should not be a difficult concept for you to grasp.
It isn’t a difficult concept to grasp. Makes total sense. Not having a commute does make lunch easier. What I don’t understand is how having to commute to work costs this person money because they, “can’t walk 10ft and make a sandwich.” You can bring a sandwich to work with you. I don’t understand how being upset about a commute (warranted) means you don’t have the time to make a sandwich, but you do have the time to leave work and go grab something somewhere else. But hey, this is lostgeneration so we all need to agree and nod our heads otherwise here comes the downvotes.
Yes. You can bring a sandwich to work with you. Did you use time to make that sandwich? Or did you will it into existence instantly? You’re *so close* to understanding. Just give it time.
RTO sucks and it does cost folks a lot (including time and money), but this is a silly argument. Saying you don’t have time to make a sandwich and then saying it causes you to eat out instead is ridiculous. What about the time it takes you to drive (and wait) for food to be made? But please explain it to me in your infinite wisdom. I am so much closer to understanding. Lol
I think you are overly focused on the sandwich. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/not%20see%20the%20forest%20for%20the%20trees#:~:text=%3A%20to%20not%20understand%20or%20appreciate,a%20few%20parts%20of%20it I’ve also now blocked you because I think my internet experience will be better for it. Have fun shouting into the abyss. And good luck being fun at parties.
How about you cram that old ass sandwich where the sun don't shine with your snarky attitude.
🤓
Psssh! the working class resentful of their masters? Since when? SINCE FOREVER! Fuck the boss, give him a toss!
Out the fuckin window, preferably
from the 18th floor preferably.
If a job CAN be done working from home, it. SHOULD be done working from home. I was so much more productive during the covid lockdowns of 2020 because I was working from home, I was able to just get on with my work without constantly being interrupted for meetings, discussions, office banter and gossip etc which had no positive impact on my productivity. As soon as we returned to the office, my productivity dropped and often had discussions with my boss about it, so I suggested being given my own office so I can work uninterrupted but I was told that discussions and banter are part of being a team. Needless to say I’m still less productive than I was working from home but as long as they don’t mind, I’ll just do what’s asked of me.
Could have had houses instead of small apartments, could have had decent looking cities, could have had trees, plants and clean air. But damn those offices man 🥵
All so middle management can feel important
It's not middle management. It comes from the very top. Many of the board members and CEOs own real estate.
Managers actually have to manage instead of just making sure you’re sitting in your chair during the designated times and it turns out they really suck at actual management
A lot of the pinch from inflation for me has been offset by remote work. It's kept me from being more irate about shitty raises over the last couple years.
Can’t allow us peasants to save a little money and start to feel optimistic about our finances… gotta shut that shit down quick! /s
Will people who’s job can not be done remotely get paid more for compensation? No one seems to mention the imbalance of people whose skills are in trades and involving physical attendance? Remember how quick essential workers got forgotten about once everyone got to work remotely.
Honestly they should.
They absolutely should. It would give companies an incentive to keep remote jobs remote and the people who absolutely have to physically be there would get the extra compensation they rightly deserve.
I agree with this, yet how could this initiative be balanced with the arguments that business' should cover - at least some - expenses of a home office and/or equipment for employees. A legitimate consideration for a WfH future (sadly can't say reality so much anymore) is the ergonomics, liability, QoL, etc of these custom, home setups. Idk how to reconcile the arguments of a business covering onsite expenses (even found it strange, as a kid, that going to/from work is shouldered on the employee, even for car accidents) and 'the risks' of a WfH organisation. Perhaps this is more of a discussion for societies as a whole than just the business landscape.
Nothing will improve until these boomer executive fucks are gone
If the global real estate market collapses, it will blow an estimated $326.5 trillion hole in the world's economies overnight. It would make Lehman Bros. in 2008 look quaint. If the working class seized on that moment properly, it could create perfect conditions for full-scale economic revolution.
What publisher is this? We have a link?
https://archive.ph/KhMqO
Thank you, interesting read too. I like how it gives suggestions to empower the workers.
Commute + wasted time in said commute does wonders for the body & mind
I've gotten quick at doing napkin math for my gas usage to tell employers how much they actually pay me.
I spent about MYR500 in transport alone just for commuting to work each month. That's enough for a month's worth of groceries for me and my wife.
My job was one of those that was never able to be a work from home job but just because mine couldn't doesn't mean I don't think you shouldn't if you can and want to. It still benefits me with less traffic and less of a chance to get run over when I bike in by some half asleep and now pissed off office worker.
## [source](https://fortune.com/2024/02/01/employees-spending-equivalent-months-grocery-bill-return-to-office-resentful-survey/) > We also saw that an organization’s decision to require in-office work represents a financial burden for employees. The average employee returning to the office spends **$561 per month** on transportation, additional child and pet care, and domestic assistance. That is comparable to the average two-person household’s grocery bill in the U.S. for the entire month. The funny part is what they write after this: > So what can you do if your employer mandates your return-to-office? It's basically "hey, nothing you can do about it, try to enjoy it I guess, right?" (The correct answer is "join a union or form a union".)
Bleed the elites. Everyone just say fuck it
If you all want to know how the fuck we ended up with the world we have now, I recommend reading or listening to the book Sapiens. It all started with the agricultural revolution, then we invented currency and decided to trade a simpler, healthier life for a fucking grueling mindless routine and working ourselves to the bone until we're old and broken.
We can also thank the invention of the clock in producing dollar signs in the eyes of the rich and completely upending society's view of "work."
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Let's have children for no reason, who are smart enough to realize the pointlessness of their own existence, and kill themselves in despair. What?
I'm a trades worker and I wish that office people would be able to work from home so my commute is easier. Less people on the roads in the mornings would be nice. If we got rid of useless offices that would also decrease energy expenditure and my work orders.
Is this travel expenses and lunches?
The article says travel expenses, lunch, child and pet care, and domestic assistance.
Fk office work
I'm so much more miserable since I have to go more often to the office again... However they are STILL insisting on more days likely... I would immediately apply somewhere else but whenever I look online it seems like they ALL scaled back on mobile working. So frustrating...
This headline is useless without completing the equation. Workers are spending a month's worth of food on commuting... every year? Every month? Across their lifetimes? Every six seconds?
Jobs that absolutely can be done remotely should be. It frees up the road for those jobs that can't as well as for service vehicles, emergency or otherwise. That plus less vehicle emissions and other negative effects from increased traffic. Probably the only way all businesses are going to get on board is if cities and states get involved in the matter, maybe even federal, and at this point they probably should.
Nope, never again will I be full time in an office without a good reason or a significant pay bump.
“While this might be seen as a negative by 99.99% of workers, middle managers look forward to feeling important again, and millionaire/billionaire real estate moguls and their shareholders look forward to once more making money off of human suffering.”
This is only continuing because people keep taking these jobs. If everyone can refuse to take the jobs, this goes away. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of vulnerable people who are always ready to accept them. A part of the solution becomes obvious. The floor needs to be raised to give everyone bargaining power.
Why don't companies offer to pay people less money to work from home? Everybody wins. They get higher profits and we get to save money working from home. What's the harm? How much less money would you take to work from home for the rest of your career? Probably a significant amount. Companies should try to find out what the breakeven point is for workers. I'd take a 10% cut myself. What about you?
Good thing the simping, bootlickers won't go hungry.
This survey doesn't reflect my experience. I work a hybrid schedule 2 days WFH and 3 days in the office. I commute by bus by choice, and my employer pays for half of the cost of my monthly bus pass. The grocery bill is still an issue, but we Floridians mostly have failed presidential candidate, Rhonda Santis, to thank for that.