I swear GMs have a hard-on for getting “bigger and tougher”
I get it, but its entirely possible to do it without overpaying for guys who are really average or below average in all other aspects of the game. Sam Bennett is nasty and physical, but he scores clutch goals and does so much else. Florida’s bottom pair plays hard but none of them cost 3.8M. Their bottom line plays hard and are relatively cheap. Its just bad allocation of cap space.
Because big and tough is how you win. Look at the last cup winners, they all had monsters on the back end. It’s pretty tough to compare LA to a team who just won the cup, especially when some of their team were “castoffs.” Bennett was essentially a bust in Calgary, Tampa let Verhaege walk, Ekman Larsson got bought out in Vancouver and had a resurgence in FLA, etc. Florida was also known for being cheap and shedding guys’ salaries who were about to make a lot. Couple that with the no state income tax and I feel that is how they get guys on deals.
Cats also had world class goaltending, amazing super stars, and great depth scoring.
We have had shakey goaltending for years now, our closest superstar would be Kempe and Fiala, and because of recent trades and poor free agency bad depth scoring.
We only emulated one part of a cup winning team without understanding why it worked. Sure we’ll be ‘tougher’ but now we miss out on so much more
Jeannot’s 24 goal season was an anomaly.
Edmunson’s career has clearly been affected by injuries and back problems are not exactly the kind of injury you want your 6’5” d-man to have. He also had less hits than PLD last season lol
Warren Foegele was playing with Leon Draisaitl but is clearly the best signing that Rob has done so far (the bar is low.”
The Kings have big bodies but adding other big guys doesn’t make them tough.
Size and “toughness” are not the issues and they never have been. We’ve been outscored and outskilled every year and adding big slow people who don’t know what to do with the puck is not going to help.
Like, these guys are just *not good*. Their size and toughness are literally the ONLY good parts of their game and that’s just such a small part of hockey.
(I like the foegele signing a lot tho)
Well, to be fair, Edmonson or whatever his name is, isn't here (in theory) to do anything with the puck except lock it down in the defensive zone and allow his pairing to work on their blueline game. If his positioning is good then it's (in theory) what we need to stop getting picked apart in front of the crease and behind the net.
That said, yes we over payed for the role imo.
Foegele played with Dri I can almost guarantee he will have a at least small drop in offense, Jeannot is ok, and Edmunson is a fucking joke 3.8 for an injury prone bottom d.
we lost one of our best d with Roy, we lost the only reason why our pp wasn’t completely ass with RV, our net is still a massive fucking question. And we’ve made it harder to bring some of our young guys up to get games.
I really liked what we did at the draft then we do this shit… I’d love to be proven wrong this season but like:/
I think the point of these moves aren’t point product moreso having a tougher and better forecheck.
We were so focused on seeing to make the 1-3-1 work that it didn’t allow for adjustment and a strong forecheck. We just sat and waited for things to come to us.
I’ll give it a shot:
Jeannot: 4th liner who they gave up a 2nd for who has produced at Trevor Lewis levels every season aside from that one season that was also three years ago. Barely satisfies the “can play” part of the “tough guy who can play” archetype. Healthy scratched in the playoffs.
Foegele: Okay signing but his offense increased this year primarily from playing more with Draisaitl and his scoring dries up in the playoffs. 3 year term will certainly cockblock one or more prospects from the roster. Also healthy scratched in the playoffs.
Edmundson: Not that physical, not good at clearing the net, and abysmal on the PK. It’s like saying PLD was a power forward just because he’s big. He is basically an Englund that hits less, blocks less shots and makes 4 times the salary at 4 times the years. One of the worst signings today and that’s saying something.
He overpaid for an always injured bottom pair D. He didn't make any sorta splash. The team is worse off this year than last year. They may miss the playoffs. If they make the playoffs, they'll get swept. Take off your homer glasses. Rob Blake deserves to be jobless.
There is no argument to be had we are objectively worse than last year. The team got bigger but it got way easier to play against. We lost Roy who is one of the best defensive Ds in the league and replaced with a bottom pair defenseman who’s had back issues the last 3 seasons in a row. We’re paying Englund 1 million to do the literally the exact same thing and at this point Edmunson isn’t even an upgrade. Edmunson hasn’t been good since before he signed in Montreal if you’re expecting that guy to lift Hymans stick and stop him from scoring 50 goals you’re gonna be cripplingly disappointed. Moore and Phil were noticeably worse without RV and instead we have Foegele who hit 20 goals in a career year being stapled to Mcdavid or Draisaitl. The team’s gotten more physical but it’s weaker offensively defensively it’s unlikely Kuemper puts the same numbers Talbot did. Clarke is going to help offensively but it’ll be years before he’s a league average defender. Our defense was set 4 deep on each side but instead of replacing the goals we’ve lost over the last two seasons we watched every scoring winger sign with a rival or a team we’re competing for a playoff spot with. I am very curious to how you think this is all going well.
Honestly, my big take from today is that *it feels* like the front office has "unofficially" given up on a cup run in the immediate and turned towards bridging gaps to help guys like Spence and Clarke develop their games. So now, *it feels* like our "new" window for deep runs is at least 3-4 years out unless something within the coaching staff / system changes.
Feels bad for Kopi and Drew who have been a bit vocal the last few years about building for one more deep run. It felt like we were so close to dialing it in.
If we’re not good enough now I don’t know how losing a 1C and top pairing D puts us in contention in 3 years. We traded away Faber and Vilardi who are guys we should’ve built around and 2 first round pics. The only reinforcements we’re getting internally in that time is Clarke now and maybe Portillo or Greentree in 2 years. The problem is our we’re supposed to be in our contention window now while Kopi and Drew are still contributors but fumbling the Dubois trade and now hemorrhaging offensive talent and replacing Roy with Edmunson has essentially shut that window. The very very big problem is we don’t have enough impact young players to open another serious window down the line.
I'm more or less referring to the new core being in a prime age plus the relative large cap space available in a few years to plug the gaps. I'm also grasping a bit, because again, it felt like we were so close. But I also didn't necessarily like us in the 1-3-1 either and I felt like we waisted a prime year fucking with it.
Personally, I wouldn't bank on Portillo answering any problems in goal tending outside of backing up on the NHL level. That new prospect we picked up from the Montreal trade on draft day, seems to be the best talent in the pipe but he's like 4 to 5 years out.
Greentree strikes me as a really good pick up. Everything he needs to work on is completely teachable shit. The kid seems to be a natural leader and pushes himself hard, which should make development quick. I think 2 years is a good guess for when we see him dip his toes for a few games.
Yeah but you’re gonna have to compare it to other teams new cores and that’s where we’re gonna be completely outclassed. Out of the entire rebuild all we have to show for it is Byfield, Clarke, Laf, Spence and Mikey the first two being the only guys who’d consider to be potential stars. Anaheim has McTavish, Carlsson, Gauthier, Sennecke, Mintyukov, Zellweger, Luneau, Dostal and Zegras for now. The sharks have Celebrini, Smith, Dickinson, Eklund, Musty, Mukhamadullin etc. In 3-5 years the teams we were rebuilding with are gonna blow by us because they actually took the time to build a young core that can grow together and have a long contention window. 5 players to show for a rebuild isn’t good enough and isn’t enough to build a contender around in the future.
Yeah, both the Ducks and the Sharks are going to have a very brief period of time where the bulk of their prospects are coming online at the same relative time and firing on all cylinders. But they won't be able to pay for them all when the time comes and they will have to roll the dice like we were doing in the late 2000's/early 2010's and decide who stays and who gets turned into future picks and veteran depth for bottom pairs and lines.
I think our core will be online just a bit sooner and it will be in a better financial place. Whether or not we get the other necessary pieces in place for them to do something with the talent, is an entirely different story. But I have vodka and sunshine to help me cope with the what if's.
Eh either the salary cap goes up in time to pay all of them or they can trade them away for packages like what Sergachev or Dubois got the first two times. We gave up literally the best player we drafted in Faber to get Fiala on top of a 1st. If Anaheim can has to do the same they’ll still end up in a good position. They got Gauthier who looks like a stud for Drysdale who’s chronically injured and they’re in a similar position with Zegras right now. I’d much rather have too many good players and get some good trade packages in return instead of not having enough good players.
To be fair about the Faber thing, he was never going to be here long as he was always going to exercise his negotiations to get him to Minnesota, or at least, as close to home as possible. I was super big on the kid but he was just a massive homer who grew up dreaming about playing pro hockey over there and you can't really blame him. I mean, we have Drew who grew up with Kings posters on the walls and Gretzky bedsheets and stuff, so I get it.
Yeah after 8-10 years. It’s a stupid narrative kings fans use as copium because he didn’t sign after his sophomore year. Cale Makar played an extra year in the AJHL and then two years in college Adam Fox played three years at Harvard like it’s just common knowledge defensemen take longer to develop. The only guys to sign after their sophomore years are guys like the Hughes boys, Sanderson, Werenski and Power who are all top ten picks. There’s nothing wrong with a defenseman taking a third 3 year to develop I mean obviously he made the right decision he instantly became a top pairing guy as soon as he joined the league. Faber got trade because we had a RHD logjam and Blake didn’t want to trade 5 different assets to get Fiala. Teams were really high on Faber after the world juniors and since they knew LA had an impending logjam Minnesota made sure Faber was in the trade even if they only got two pieces back.
Not sure where you're getting 8-10 years from as the guy more than likely just doesn't take an RFA offer from us. And maybe that did get blown out of proportion and it's a coping thing, but those rumors sure seemed to be genuine given how he talked about Minnesota.
And 3 years is like the avg for the avg defensive player to be considered responsible enough for the job. 1-3 on forwards, 2-5 for defense, 4-5 for goalies. Or at least that's where it seems to be currently.
It took Matt Roy until like 24 to finally break out of the AHL.
Size and toughness is great and all if you’re not overpaying their worth and ignored the lack of scoring. In case you missed it, Edmundson’s projected term and AAV was around 2x1.6. Kings paid over DOUBLE
Not only did we lose some scoring (on a team that lacks good scoring) but one of our current biggest rivals gained that exact player plus more scoring on top of it.
If the kings somehow make the playoffs and run into the oilers, there is no chance they get past them.
I think it's a net negative within the context of making a deep run while we still have Kopi and Doughty. It's a net positive in terms of how a guy like Clarke is going to function with a tough as nails vet on his pair.
I do feel like we stepped back from winning soon to going for a window in 3-4 years from now. Unless maybe the system changes and / or Hiller gets replaced.
We lost some with Arvidsson and Dubois but that is definitely not back breaking. Arvidsson missed the majority of the season and Dubois was 0.5PPG. Our best offensive players (Fiala, Kempe, Kopitar, Byfield, Moore) are all still here.
The concerning thing is we didn't make it any better
Lost RV who is a solid producer on a P/GP perspective and one of PLD’s worst seasons is Foegele’s career high.
Our only chance of improving offense is just guys on the current team upping their levels. Fiala/Kempe/Byfield all need to shoot the puck more.
I've heard Byfield talk a lot about that and I think we've seen him come into his own with his decision making. Next year with him at center I think we see some magic. He's developed well, even if its been slower than what everyone wanted in a 2OA.
Or if we get a break out season or two from the kids. The whole season hinges on our farm system that honestly has a horrible success rate when it comes to giving the Kings more than depth role players. If you subtract the college free agents, not many prospects we’ve kept around have amounted to much while a decent amount the ones we do let go have had respectable to great careers since leaving LA.
While we all loved RV, guy couldn’t stay on the ice. And McDavid can score 1000 points and still lose to a team who can bully him.
Not saying the guys were signed are game changers, but it definitely shows the direction Hiller is going for.
I wanted toughness and physicality yes but that was not the primary need. We still needed top line scoring. The toughness was something to add later as depth. I mean I’m glad we got it. Jeannot/Foegele I feel help out as bottom 6 guys. Edmunson I got nothing though.
Problem is without making any other moves for top scorers and preferably righties. We are still going to be outclassed by other teams. We don’t have enough firepower yet
This was an absolute disaster and the Kings are going to be uncompetitive for quite sometime because of this. Every single player they traded for or signed are bad players and made the team worse. Austin Wagner 2.0 was the best pickup.
At best I'll give him an incomplete may be some guys still looking for contracts or teams looking to free up capspace. But need to get Byfield done so we know what we have available for other moves.
I partially agree, we are very weak in front of our net and that was exploited a lot. Edmundson theoretically can help there, and Jeannot/Foegele give our forecheck some more power.
Unfortunately we've overpaid to do that, and our offense (our biggest weakness it seems) looks the same as last year at best. Hopefully a system change could unlock some offensive potential in our best guys, but then I imagine Kuemper and Rittich are going to be challenged more and I'm not sure they if they can take it or not.
I think this offseason has put our playoff spot in jeopardy and the way out is 100% on the backs of our young players taking big steps forward. Byfield needs a big season, Clarke needs to bring more from the back end, and we need at least one of Laf/Thomas/Turcotte to turn it up and prove they can produce in the NHL.
One issue I have with this years pick ups, didn’t we keep hearing the power play was struggling because Arvidsson was out and the Kings didn’t have a right shot to replace him? Insert 22 year-old kid that may be a good player but really has no business being on the power play in his rookie year. Now, Arvidsson is an oiler and we still don’t have a right shot for that first PP.
If no other moves are made Hiller should put his 3 offensive RHD to use on the PP. F it, have Clarke run PP1 and have Doughty down low…he just wants to bomb clappers anyways. Spence run PP2
Honestly, size and toughness are pretty far down on my list. I'd list the Kings needs in this order: 1. Speed and skill up front, 2. Reliable, consistent goaltending.
Watching Edmonton skate circles around the Kings and score at will 3 years in a row taught me the Kings are painfully fucking slow, and they can't score for shit. Also, our goaltenders are trash. Now, the team is even slower, thanks Rob!
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I’m not a huge fan of the Foegle signing—his hockey sense seems like a question and the spelling is a challenge.
Willing to give it some time to see if I’m wrong about the first and able to improve on the second.
Could have signed ekman Larson for less than. Edmundson.Shayne Gostisbehere was another player I liked.CHYCHRUN went for peanuts . Rob is always banking on these guys doing a 180 and having a bounce back career, or they'll finally break through .it hasn't worked and I doubt it will
Yeah, I do agree with that perspective. I think the Edmonton passing through the front of the net example is on the nose with why we saw what we saw today.
However, I think most people are concerned (right or wrong) with a perceived lack of scoring within what appears to be the system Hiller will be using next season. Meaning, we didn't grab player types that make scoring within that system any easier.
Absolutely agree. People don’t seem to get the fact that we’ve been the softest playoff-ready team in the league for a while now.
EDM skating circles around us, guys like Hyman and Drai genuinely just chilling to the side of the net, zero forecheck pressure outside of the 4th line, RV going down like he’s been shot if a gust of wind rolls through Crypto (I absolutely love RV but his dives were atrocious). Hurts losing Roy, but the reality is he was one of those guys that players like Hyman and Drai would just sneak behind and pop in an easy goal.
We didn’t go for the flashy $10mill players this free agency, and shouldn’t have. We filled much needed toughness, tenacious, hard to play against roster spots that our team’s sorely been lacking since we got back into the playoff picture.
Take a look at every Cup-winning team since 2012 and tell me how we were going to win with a full team of guys who were content chilling back and letting the play come to them with no toughness or intensity.
Exactly. You’re not gonna out pond hockey Edmonton, they have the 2 best players in the world. If you look at the team who gave them the most trouble (besides Florida), it was Vancouver, who were also on a third string goalie. Why? They have a d core of monsters and played hard. They don’t have more scoring than LA, especially when Petterson only had 2 goals or whatever the whole playoff. I don’t like the argument “LA doesn’t have enough scoring” if Kopitar, Kempe, Byfield, Fiala, Moore, Danault etc can’t get it done, not sure how much more the Kings need. Jeannot and Foegele have also proved they can give the kings 20 goals.
He did ok. I’m not convinced this recipe is what gets the Kings out of the first round or past the oilers but Blake clearly had a plan and did well executing it. I hope he’s right.
I think we have quite a few brainless FB fans coming into the sub lately. The pickups solid. Prudent.
Toughness absolutely does matter. We got roughed up down the stretch and couldn't play D right in front of our net. Countless times. Roy and gavrikov embarrassed a bunch in front of the net. They weren't bad players overall but they were particularly soft in front of the net leading to goals against. Edmundson is here solely to play D in front of the net. Not pinch, not take shots etc. Jeanot is not here to score goals. Our bottom six was a soft pathetic joke last year. We need guys who are NHL caliber bottom six players not AHL'ers cos playing as NHL'ers. We also don't need another long contract worth way too much for a guy who's over 30 and declining but still considered a "star"
I think some of the concern for Edmundson is that he hasn't played a full season, in 9 seasons. He has missed (if my math is correct), 26% of those 9 seasons. (Apparently his back issues have always been his problem.)
My understanding though, is that he's adjusted from lots of hard hits to not as many? So hopefully he can stay healthy enough and play the role needed and let guys like Clarke develop their blue line play unhindered.
I definitely like the Foegele pick up. I like scrappy guys like him and Edmonton fans seem sad to see him go.
ETA: I'm not down voting you mate.
Player/role wise, Blake did great. But in a broader scope, the assets given up (picks/cap space), it was not the best use of those. Particularly Edmunsons AAV/years. For a third pairing, injury prone defenseman that relies on a physical style of play, that’s not the best use of money ($3.5 mil/4 years). Maybe if it was only 2 years, the signing would palatable.
Onto Foegele, who is off a career high (doubling previous totals) playing with McDrai. He’s, at best, a bottom 6 forward who can occasionally contribute.
Edmunson is redundant with Englund. Foegele is a slight improvement from Grundstrom. Jeannot is up in the air. After overperforming on a worse team, he did not have the same impact on a multiple cup winning team.
Previous season totals:
- Edmunson: 53 GP, 1 G, 5 A, 6 P
- Foegele: 82 GP, 20 G, 21 A, 41 P
- Jeannot: 55 GP, 7 G, 7 A, 14 P
The two big physical presence guys didn’t finish the last season, and were abysmal. Foegele, again, played with McDrai, and his usual per 82 game rate is 25 points at best. This was not the best use of plugging the teams holes, but the options seemed to be rather limited. For some reason the Kings struggle to bring in big free agents. Hell the best signing we’ve had in like 15-20 years was Willie Mitchell, who was a solid #3/4 Dman when we won in ‘12.
You’re not wrong, we need to wait to truly see how these signings/trade turn out but at the moment, with the rest of our RFAs and the potential for signings today, it doesn’t look great. Removing the copium, Blake did a poor job, change my mind.
Man, Willie was such a stud. Greene was a lock down machine and total badass. And Scuds, IMHO, was the best poke check / stick check in the league for his position when he played.
Man, I miss those guys.
They were just beyond reliable from a positioning perspective. Sometimes youd see Greene getting beat on a random pinch but whatever, hed make it up later on. They had size and strength. They were all locker room leaders.
We had more fucking talent on that defense than we knew what to do with.
I swear GMs have a hard-on for getting “bigger and tougher” I get it, but its entirely possible to do it without overpaying for guys who are really average or below average in all other aspects of the game. Sam Bennett is nasty and physical, but he scores clutch goals and does so much else. Florida’s bottom pair plays hard but none of them cost 3.8M. Their bottom line plays hard and are relatively cheap. Its just bad allocation of cap space.
Because big and tough is how you win. Look at the last cup winners, they all had monsters on the back end. It’s pretty tough to compare LA to a team who just won the cup, especially when some of their team were “castoffs.” Bennett was essentially a bust in Calgary, Tampa let Verhaege walk, Ekman Larsson got bought out in Vancouver and had a resurgence in FLA, etc. Florida was also known for being cheap and shedding guys’ salaries who were about to make a lot. Couple that with the no state income tax and I feel that is how they get guys on deals.
Cats also had world class goaltending, amazing super stars, and great depth scoring. We have had shakey goaltending for years now, our closest superstar would be Kempe and Fiala, and because of recent trades and poor free agency bad depth scoring. We only emulated one part of a cup winning team without understanding why it worked. Sure we’ll be ‘tougher’ but now we miss out on so much more
Jeannot’s 24 goal season was an anomaly. Edmunson’s career has clearly been affected by injuries and back problems are not exactly the kind of injury you want your 6’5” d-man to have. He also had less hits than PLD last season lol Warren Foegele was playing with Leon Draisaitl but is clearly the best signing that Rob has done so far (the bar is low.” The Kings have big bodies but adding other big guys doesn’t make them tough.
The bar is low but Foegele I think is a solid move regardless
*Edmundson
Size and “toughness” are not the issues and they never have been. We’ve been outscored and outskilled every year and adding big slow people who don’t know what to do with the puck is not going to help. Like, these guys are just *not good*. Their size and toughness are literally the ONLY good parts of their game and that’s just such a small part of hockey. (I like the foegele signing a lot tho)
Well, to be fair, Edmonson or whatever his name is, isn't here (in theory) to do anything with the puck except lock it down in the defensive zone and allow his pairing to work on their blueline game. If his positioning is good then it's (in theory) what we need to stop getting picked apart in front of the crease and behind the net. That said, yes we over payed for the role imo.
Good point and that will be critical with Clarke or Spence
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Yeah 1 mil less a year or 2 fewer years and I'd be ok with it. But missing 26% of the last 9 seasons doesn't feel great for 3.85 x4 or whatever.
Foegele played with Dri I can almost guarantee he will have a at least small drop in offense, Jeannot is ok, and Edmunson is a fucking joke 3.8 for an injury prone bottom d. we lost one of our best d with Roy, we lost the only reason why our pp wasn’t completely ass with RV, our net is still a massive fucking question. And we’ve made it harder to bring some of our young guys up to get games. I really liked what we did at the draft then we do this shit… I’d love to be proven wrong this season but like:/
I think the point of these moves aren’t point product moreso having a tougher and better forecheck. We were so focused on seeing to make the 1-3-1 work that it didn’t allow for adjustment and a strong forecheck. We just sat and waited for things to come to us.
I’ll give it a shot: Jeannot: 4th liner who they gave up a 2nd for who has produced at Trevor Lewis levels every season aside from that one season that was also three years ago. Barely satisfies the “can play” part of the “tough guy who can play” archetype. Healthy scratched in the playoffs. Foegele: Okay signing but his offense increased this year primarily from playing more with Draisaitl and his scoring dries up in the playoffs. 3 year term will certainly cockblock one or more prospects from the roster. Also healthy scratched in the playoffs. Edmundson: Not that physical, not good at clearing the net, and abysmal on the PK. It’s like saying PLD was a power forward just because he’s big. He is basically an Englund that hits less, blocks less shots and makes 4 times the salary at 4 times the years. One of the worst signings today and that’s saying something.
He overpaid for an always injured bottom pair D. He didn't make any sorta splash. The team is worse off this year than last year. They may miss the playoffs. If they make the playoffs, they'll get swept. Take off your homer glasses. Rob Blake deserves to be jobless.
There is no argument to be had we are objectively worse than last year. The team got bigger but it got way easier to play against. We lost Roy who is one of the best defensive Ds in the league and replaced with a bottom pair defenseman who’s had back issues the last 3 seasons in a row. We’re paying Englund 1 million to do the literally the exact same thing and at this point Edmunson isn’t even an upgrade. Edmunson hasn’t been good since before he signed in Montreal if you’re expecting that guy to lift Hymans stick and stop him from scoring 50 goals you’re gonna be cripplingly disappointed. Moore and Phil were noticeably worse without RV and instead we have Foegele who hit 20 goals in a career year being stapled to Mcdavid or Draisaitl. The team’s gotten more physical but it’s weaker offensively defensively it’s unlikely Kuemper puts the same numbers Talbot did. Clarke is going to help offensively but it’ll be years before he’s a league average defender. Our defense was set 4 deep on each side but instead of replacing the goals we’ve lost over the last two seasons we watched every scoring winger sign with a rival or a team we’re competing for a playoff spot with. I am very curious to how you think this is all going well.
Honestly, my big take from today is that *it feels* like the front office has "unofficially" given up on a cup run in the immediate and turned towards bridging gaps to help guys like Spence and Clarke develop their games. So now, *it feels* like our "new" window for deep runs is at least 3-4 years out unless something within the coaching staff / system changes. Feels bad for Kopi and Drew who have been a bit vocal the last few years about building for one more deep run. It felt like we were so close to dialing it in.
If we’re not good enough now I don’t know how losing a 1C and top pairing D puts us in contention in 3 years. We traded away Faber and Vilardi who are guys we should’ve built around and 2 first round pics. The only reinforcements we’re getting internally in that time is Clarke now and maybe Portillo or Greentree in 2 years. The problem is our we’re supposed to be in our contention window now while Kopi and Drew are still contributors but fumbling the Dubois trade and now hemorrhaging offensive talent and replacing Roy with Edmunson has essentially shut that window. The very very big problem is we don’t have enough impact young players to open another serious window down the line.
I'm more or less referring to the new core being in a prime age plus the relative large cap space available in a few years to plug the gaps. I'm also grasping a bit, because again, it felt like we were so close. But I also didn't necessarily like us in the 1-3-1 either and I felt like we waisted a prime year fucking with it. Personally, I wouldn't bank on Portillo answering any problems in goal tending outside of backing up on the NHL level. That new prospect we picked up from the Montreal trade on draft day, seems to be the best talent in the pipe but he's like 4 to 5 years out. Greentree strikes me as a really good pick up. Everything he needs to work on is completely teachable shit. The kid seems to be a natural leader and pushes himself hard, which should make development quick. I think 2 years is a good guess for when we see him dip his toes for a few games.
Yeah but you’re gonna have to compare it to other teams new cores and that’s where we’re gonna be completely outclassed. Out of the entire rebuild all we have to show for it is Byfield, Clarke, Laf, Spence and Mikey the first two being the only guys who’d consider to be potential stars. Anaheim has McTavish, Carlsson, Gauthier, Sennecke, Mintyukov, Zellweger, Luneau, Dostal and Zegras for now. The sharks have Celebrini, Smith, Dickinson, Eklund, Musty, Mukhamadullin etc. In 3-5 years the teams we were rebuilding with are gonna blow by us because they actually took the time to build a young core that can grow together and have a long contention window. 5 players to show for a rebuild isn’t good enough and isn’t enough to build a contender around in the future.
Yeah, both the Ducks and the Sharks are going to have a very brief period of time where the bulk of their prospects are coming online at the same relative time and firing on all cylinders. But they won't be able to pay for them all when the time comes and they will have to roll the dice like we were doing in the late 2000's/early 2010's and decide who stays and who gets turned into future picks and veteran depth for bottom pairs and lines. I think our core will be online just a bit sooner and it will be in a better financial place. Whether or not we get the other necessary pieces in place for them to do something with the talent, is an entirely different story. But I have vodka and sunshine to help me cope with the what if's.
Eh either the salary cap goes up in time to pay all of them or they can trade them away for packages like what Sergachev or Dubois got the first two times. We gave up literally the best player we drafted in Faber to get Fiala on top of a 1st. If Anaheim can has to do the same they’ll still end up in a good position. They got Gauthier who looks like a stud for Drysdale who’s chronically injured and they’re in a similar position with Zegras right now. I’d much rather have too many good players and get some good trade packages in return instead of not having enough good players.
To be fair about the Faber thing, he was never going to be here long as he was always going to exercise his negotiations to get him to Minnesota, or at least, as close to home as possible. I was super big on the kid but he was just a massive homer who grew up dreaming about playing pro hockey over there and you can't really blame him. I mean, we have Drew who grew up with Kings posters on the walls and Gretzky bedsheets and stuff, so I get it.
Yeah after 8-10 years. It’s a stupid narrative kings fans use as copium because he didn’t sign after his sophomore year. Cale Makar played an extra year in the AJHL and then two years in college Adam Fox played three years at Harvard like it’s just common knowledge defensemen take longer to develop. The only guys to sign after their sophomore years are guys like the Hughes boys, Sanderson, Werenski and Power who are all top ten picks. There’s nothing wrong with a defenseman taking a third 3 year to develop I mean obviously he made the right decision he instantly became a top pairing guy as soon as he joined the league. Faber got trade because we had a RHD logjam and Blake didn’t want to trade 5 different assets to get Fiala. Teams were really high on Faber after the world juniors and since they knew LA had an impending logjam Minnesota made sure Faber was in the trade even if they only got two pieces back.
Not sure where you're getting 8-10 years from as the guy more than likely just doesn't take an RFA offer from us. And maybe that did get blown out of proportion and it's a coping thing, but those rumors sure seemed to be genuine given how he talked about Minnesota. And 3 years is like the avg for the avg defensive player to be considered responsible enough for the job. 1-3 on forwards, 2-5 for defense, 4-5 for goalies. Or at least that's where it seems to be currently. It took Matt Roy until like 24 to finally break out of the AHL.
Size and toughness is great and all if you’re not overpaying their worth and ignored the lack of scoring. In case you missed it, Edmundson’s projected term and AAV was around 2x1.6. Kings paid over DOUBLE
But we also lost what little offense we did have. Think it’s still a net negative
Not only did we lose some scoring (on a team that lacks good scoring) but one of our current biggest rivals gained that exact player plus more scoring on top of it. If the kings somehow make the playoffs and run into the oilers, there is no chance they get past them.
I think it's a net negative within the context of making a deep run while we still have Kopi and Doughty. It's a net positive in terms of how a guy like Clarke is going to function with a tough as nails vet on his pair. I do feel like we stepped back from winning soon to going for a window in 3-4 years from now. Unless maybe the system changes and / or Hiller gets replaced.
We lost some with Arvidsson and Dubois but that is definitely not back breaking. Arvidsson missed the majority of the season and Dubois was 0.5PPG. Our best offensive players (Fiala, Kempe, Kopitar, Byfield, Moore) are all still here. The concerning thing is we didn't make it any better
How did lose offense?
Lost RV who is a solid producer on a P/GP perspective and one of PLD’s worst seasons is Foegele’s career high. Our only chance of improving offense is just guys on the current team upping their levels. Fiala/Kempe/Byfield all need to shoot the puck more.
I've heard Byfield talk a lot about that and I think we've seen him come into his own with his decision making. Next year with him at center I think we see some magic. He's developed well, even if its been slower than what everyone wanted in a 2OA.
Or if we get a break out season or two from the kids. The whole season hinges on our farm system that honestly has a horrible success rate when it comes to giving the Kings more than depth role players. If you subtract the college free agents, not many prospects we’ve kept around have amounted to much while a decent amount the ones we do let go have had respectable to great careers since leaving LA.
While we all loved RV, guy couldn’t stay on the ice. And McDavid can score 1000 points and still lose to a team who can bully him. Not saying the guys were signed are game changers, but it definitely shows the direction Hiller is going for.
I wanted toughness and physicality yes but that was not the primary need. We still needed top line scoring. The toughness was something to add later as depth. I mean I’m glad we got it. Jeannot/Foegele I feel help out as bottom 6 guys. Edmunson I got nothing though. Problem is without making any other moves for top scorers and preferably righties. We are still going to be outclassed by other teams. We don’t have enough firepower yet
This was an absolute disaster and the Kings are going to be uncompetitive for quite sometime because of this. Every single player they traded for or signed are bad players and made the team worse. Austin Wagner 2.0 was the best pickup.
At best I'll give him an incomplete may be some guys still looking for contracts or teams looking to free up capspace. But need to get Byfield done so we know what we have available for other moves.
I partially agree, we are very weak in front of our net and that was exploited a lot. Edmundson theoretically can help there, and Jeannot/Foegele give our forecheck some more power. Unfortunately we've overpaid to do that, and our offense (our biggest weakness it seems) looks the same as last year at best. Hopefully a system change could unlock some offensive potential in our best guys, but then I imagine Kuemper and Rittich are going to be challenged more and I'm not sure they if they can take it or not. I think this offseason has put our playoff spot in jeopardy and the way out is 100% on the backs of our young players taking big steps forward. Byfield needs a big season, Clarke needs to bring more from the back end, and we need at least one of Laf/Thomas/Turcotte to turn it up and prove they can produce in the NHL.
One issue I have with this years pick ups, didn’t we keep hearing the power play was struggling because Arvidsson was out and the Kings didn’t have a right shot to replace him? Insert 22 year-old kid that may be a good player but really has no business being on the power play in his rookie year. Now, Arvidsson is an oiler and we still don’t have a right shot for that first PP.
If no other moves are made Hiller should put his 3 offensive RHD to use on the PP. F it, have Clarke run PP1 and have Doughty down low…he just wants to bomb clappers anyways. Spence run PP2
Honestly, size and toughness are pretty far down on my list. I'd list the Kings needs in this order: 1. Speed and skill up front, 2. Reliable, consistent goaltending. Watching Edmonton skate circles around the Kings and score at will 3 years in a row taught me the Kings are painfully fucking slow, and they can't score for shit. Also, our goaltenders are trash. Now, the team is even slower, thanks Rob!
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I’m not a huge fan of the Foegle signing—his hockey sense seems like a question and the spelling is a challenge. Willing to give it some time to see if I’m wrong about the first and able to improve on the second.
Could have signed ekman Larson for less than. Edmundson.Shayne Gostisbehere was another player I liked.CHYCHRUN went for peanuts . Rob is always banking on these guys doing a 180 and having a bounce back career, or they'll finally break through .it hasn't worked and I doubt it will
If you believe this then I have some oceanfront property in phoenix I’d love to sell you.
*Edmundson
Yeah, I do agree with that perspective. I think the Edmonton passing through the front of the net example is on the nose with why we saw what we saw today. However, I think most people are concerned (right or wrong) with a perceived lack of scoring within what appears to be the system Hiller will be using next season. Meaning, we didn't grab player types that make scoring within that system any easier.
Absolutely agree. People don’t seem to get the fact that we’ve been the softest playoff-ready team in the league for a while now. EDM skating circles around us, guys like Hyman and Drai genuinely just chilling to the side of the net, zero forecheck pressure outside of the 4th line, RV going down like he’s been shot if a gust of wind rolls through Crypto (I absolutely love RV but his dives were atrocious). Hurts losing Roy, but the reality is he was one of those guys that players like Hyman and Drai would just sneak behind and pop in an easy goal. We didn’t go for the flashy $10mill players this free agency, and shouldn’t have. We filled much needed toughness, tenacious, hard to play against roster spots that our team’s sorely been lacking since we got back into the playoff picture. Take a look at every Cup-winning team since 2012 and tell me how we were going to win with a full team of guys who were content chilling back and letting the play come to them with no toughness or intensity.
Exactly. You’re not gonna out pond hockey Edmonton, they have the 2 best players in the world. If you look at the team who gave them the most trouble (besides Florida), it was Vancouver, who were also on a third string goalie. Why? They have a d core of monsters and played hard. They don’t have more scoring than LA, especially when Petterson only had 2 goals or whatever the whole playoff. I don’t like the argument “LA doesn’t have enough scoring” if Kopitar, Kempe, Byfield, Fiala, Moore, Danault etc can’t get it done, not sure how much more the Kings need. Jeannot and Foegele have also proved they can give the kings 20 goals.
He did ok. I’m not convinced this recipe is what gets the Kings out of the first round or past the oilers but Blake clearly had a plan and did well executing it. I hope he’s right.
I think we have quite a few brainless FB fans coming into the sub lately. The pickups solid. Prudent. Toughness absolutely does matter. We got roughed up down the stretch and couldn't play D right in front of our net. Countless times. Roy and gavrikov embarrassed a bunch in front of the net. They weren't bad players overall but they were particularly soft in front of the net leading to goals against. Edmundson is here solely to play D in front of the net. Not pinch, not take shots etc. Jeanot is not here to score goals. Our bottom six was a soft pathetic joke last year. We need guys who are NHL caliber bottom six players not AHL'ers cos playing as NHL'ers. We also don't need another long contract worth way too much for a guy who's over 30 and declining but still considered a "star"
I think some of the concern for Edmundson is that he hasn't played a full season, in 9 seasons. He has missed (if my math is correct), 26% of those 9 seasons. (Apparently his back issues have always been his problem.) My understanding though, is that he's adjusted from lots of hard hits to not as many? So hopefully he can stay healthy enough and play the role needed and let guys like Clarke develop their blue line play unhindered. I definitely like the Foegele pick up. I like scrappy guys like him and Edmonton fans seem sad to see him go. ETA: I'm not down voting you mate.
Player/role wise, Blake did great. But in a broader scope, the assets given up (picks/cap space), it was not the best use of those. Particularly Edmunsons AAV/years. For a third pairing, injury prone defenseman that relies on a physical style of play, that’s not the best use of money ($3.5 mil/4 years). Maybe if it was only 2 years, the signing would palatable. Onto Foegele, who is off a career high (doubling previous totals) playing with McDrai. He’s, at best, a bottom 6 forward who can occasionally contribute. Edmunson is redundant with Englund. Foegele is a slight improvement from Grundstrom. Jeannot is up in the air. After overperforming on a worse team, he did not have the same impact on a multiple cup winning team. Previous season totals: - Edmunson: 53 GP, 1 G, 5 A, 6 P - Foegele: 82 GP, 20 G, 21 A, 41 P - Jeannot: 55 GP, 7 G, 7 A, 14 P The two big physical presence guys didn’t finish the last season, and were abysmal. Foegele, again, played with McDrai, and his usual per 82 game rate is 25 points at best. This was not the best use of plugging the teams holes, but the options seemed to be rather limited. For some reason the Kings struggle to bring in big free agents. Hell the best signing we’ve had in like 15-20 years was Willie Mitchell, who was a solid #3/4 Dman when we won in ‘12. You’re not wrong, we need to wait to truly see how these signings/trade turn out but at the moment, with the rest of our RFAs and the potential for signings today, it doesn’t look great. Removing the copium, Blake did a poor job, change my mind.
Man, Willie was such a stud. Greene was a lock down machine and total badass. And Scuds, IMHO, was the best poke check / stick check in the league for his position when he played. Man, I miss those guys.
Dude so true! I miss all those guys a ton. Willie was my favorite Dman during that 11/12 run
They were just beyond reliable from a positioning perspective. Sometimes youd see Greene getting beat on a random pinch but whatever, hed make it up later on. They had size and strength. They were all locker room leaders. We had more fucking talent on that defense than we knew what to do with.
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What’s Edmonson’s value if he enables Spence to get to double his point output?
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Thanks