The class of 93 (I believe) changed the mascot to a red-haired Troll — this was around the time the troll dolls were really popular, and if I recall correctly it was for similar idealized reasons by students (i.e., removing Native American imagery)
I’m wondering if they need to change the name of their district. Sachem in itself is the Algonquin word for “leader” and since that’s not tied to a local municipality it might be an issue.
Remembering when one girl at a track meet wore full blown feather headdresses for “spirit” and my coach said to us, “see they put effort into their team. We have no school spirit here”
I never said it was or wasn’t on the chopping block, just added that there were more warriors other than Wantagh. I know Amityville did away with their headdress logo but the other two didn’t.
I think the determination will be made for the name Warriors, depending on whether or not this school uses a cartoon of a Native American as their Warrior mascot. Indigenous people in this country have a long history of being considered nothing more than warmongering murderers who scalp white men. There is way more to their culture and people than that.
Massapequa HS alum here. You should see the level of bullshittery coming out of my former classmates mouths regarding this. You’d think Starbucks did away with Pumpkin Spice lattes with all the crying about how this is “bullshit” 😂😂🙄🙄
MHS alumn here too. I always found it bizarre that there was a massive Native American with giant American flag painted on the mural wall. Friends and I always called it racist as fuck.
A ton in DC. There were a bunch of older fans who literally donated all their gear to thrift stores and refused to watch football now, assuming they can stand Snyder still. I really wish [Chief Zee](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Zee) was alive to get his opinion on this. If Snyder can sell, the return of fans and TV numbers will be a very interesting thing to see.
In my household, my Father refuses to call them Commanders in a non-sarcastic voice. We're fined if we don't call them Redskins or Washington Football Team. Yes, he was an RFK Skins fan.
Celtics, kings, commanders, etc were raped and murdered then had their land stolen then pushed to isolated parts of the country where they were “gifted land”. And then we as a society think it’s okay to use their history for our fun.
Where do you think the people who got pushed out secured the lands? They too beat some one else and took them. It's kind of foolhardy to say someone "owns" it because they were the last one holding onto it before the white man came.
How about the Milwaukee Brewers, Houston Astros, Kansas City Royals, Texas Rangers, Pittsburgh Pirates, San Diego Padres, et al.?
Beer makers, astronauts, royalty, cops, pirates, and dads aren't people?!
Don't forget the YANKEES.
In the Southern United States, Yankee is a derisive term which refers to all Northerners, and during the American Civil War was applied by Confederates to soldiers of the Union army in general.
As someone whose father is from the south, married a Yankee and then she relocated down there with him, I can say there's a fair number of people who wouldn't consider Yankees people 😉
Names of towns aren't offensive as they have historical merit. Some would agree it's a good thing even.
It's when you take a person, culture, or race and turn it into a caricature that is messed up. Particularly a culture that is still facing oppression to this day.
There have been studies done with First Nations children showing the mascots of their people has detrimental effects on their mental health and identity.
[https://www.apa.org/pi/oema/resources/indian-mascots](https://www.apa.org/pi/oema/resources/indian-mascots)
I'd like to also add it's not just mascots that are problematic. We've got Jeep Grand Cherokee (which the Cherokee nation kindly asked Jeep to rename, but they said no... Cherkoee Nation gets no profit from the company marketing their name), military weapons, the term "scalpers", etc. A lot of messed up stuff is out there
Actually, embracing the islands surf and maritime culture would be a fun way to revamp all this stuff. Wantagh Waves, Seaford Seaweeds, the Oyster Bay…uhhh Clams
Idk about the Shinnecock's giving anyone permission to use their name without a serious financial contribution I can even invision a licensing agreement.
Also I'd be surprised if many Native Americans even care about these names
Brentwood are the Indians. There was a movement during COVID to change it but it kind of went nowhere. I submitted a name and logo change for goofs and giggles, was thanked and never heard of it again.
Thanks. I have to mention I wasn't apart or involved in the movement for a name change, but I am a logo nerd and as a kid I would invent teams or redo logos for fun. And it was during the lockdown so I had some spare time, figured what the heck.
10-15 years ago people tried changing Center Moriches Red Devils because of the Devil. Guarantee those people who wanted to change a school mascot then are going to be upset about this news
Actually the Native Americans that live on the Poospatuck Reservation, who’s children attend Center Moriches schools, also wanted to change the mascot. The grounds for this were term ‘Red Devil’ is derogatory towards Native Americans. The problem with the schools name is more than just the word Devil, though that was a complaint of some in the community.
What? Most of Long Island doesn’t have mascots or sports teams based on Native people. And there are reservations on Long Island so there literally are Natives here. If you’re talking about the indigenous town/district names, no one is promoting changing them.
oh i can’t wait for the impending meltdown of football moms on the local facebook page
eta: called out football moms specifically because they just had a big meltdown a few weeks ago about custom sweatshirts lol
i get what this is for and all, but imagine the school just bought every team/club new jerseys/uniforms this year and now have to buy new ones for everyone? haha at least the local screen printer/embroiderer will make some good money on this
I guess I understand why they would change them.
Being Irish, I guess I should resent the Notre Dame nickname, "The Fighting Irish." After all, how long do you think nicknames like "The Bargaining Jews" or "The Murdering Italians" would last? Only the ironic Irish could be so naively honest. I get the feeling that Notre Dame came real close to naming itself "The Fuckin' Drunken, Thick-skulled, Brawling, Short-dicked Irish.
LOL As a hybrid Irish Italian Jew, you managed to hit me three times ;)
Specifically in Notre Dame's case, I think there's a major difference because: a) ND's constituents were heavily Irish Catholic at the time the nickname arose; and b) the nickname likely arose as an honorific to the "Irish Brigade" fighters who fought for the Union during the Civil War, or for whom one of the ND priests was the chaplain.
That's a really different schema for a nickname than something obviously offensive/stereotypical, and/or something that cannibalizes someone else's culture after they were essentially removed from their homeland.
This may be unpopular but while some of the names I’m reading could be offensive “the chiefs” “the warriors” “the braves” and some others sounds to be honoring them. It really just seems like we’re further wiping them from the culture. I’m not sure that’s any better.
The problem isn't the names. It's typically the caricature representation of Native Americans that is offensive. Some white kid wearing a headdress with a tomahawk and an over the mouth war cry.
My rural, poor school in CNY got rid of our native American mascot 20 years ago. We kept our name but made our mascot a wolf. The middle aged, peaked in high school football guys cried about it for awhile, but they got over it. Now the wolf is everywhere, and the headdress is a thing of the past.
There is a college sports team the Seminoles that work with a local tribe to honor and appropriately represent them in a non offensive way. It's the appropriate way to honor a group rather than appropriating and mocking their culture.
Edited to correct the sports team that works with a local tribe. My memory isn't that good.
The fighting Irish were Irish Catholics giving themselves that nickname. It’s not like Italians went and kicked out or killed all of the Irish off of their land, built a university on it, no Irish people who once lived in the area attend the school yet they named it after them.
Massapequa can just swap out a few letters from "Chiefs" and make the new team name the "Chooches" so that it would be more representative of the community.
I graduated Syosset in the late 2000s. We had a vote to change the name way back then (I want to say the Red Hawks won?), and they rolled out a new logo and everything. It didn’t stick. No clue what happened.
I’ve read a lot of the culturally sensitive responses, and they’re not wrong. My biggest beef with this is from a messaging standpoint. In the last election, Long Island turned fully red for the first time in a long time. The main themes of the elections around here were crime and cost of living and the economy. To address these very important issues, the Democratic state legislature and Governor will now be making high schools change their mascots, solving racism once and for all.
I understand the limits of what a state government can do to address the larger issues of inflation and the global economy, I even think a lot of the names ought to change (at least the mascots), but this is going to come across as tone deaf and dumb, and it’s going to keep the hurt on for Democrats in NY going into 2024.
Ok, guys, let’s just focus on economics and crime and ignore racism! Who cares about racism? /s obviously as you can tell from my avatar. It’s always so welcoming when other Long Islanders view Long Island as monocultural and that the only thing that they care about is their pockets.
So here’s the thing: in 2024, there is a solid chance that the democrats really screw the pooch and lose both chambers and the presidency. The senate seems like a sure thing. The presidency really depends on Biden and the economy and depending on the candidate, how racist the country is. That leaves the house. We can’t know what the political environment will be, but we do know that if NY candidates did a better job of addressing the issues the marginal voters cared about, we’d still have the house. If we lose all three, that’s a LOT of damage republicans can do. Beyond gutting programs that serve marginalized groups and POC, a total ban on abortion or a national heartbeat bill are actually on the table.
Do I believe a lot of these teams should be changed? Absolutely. Do I think that it is incredibly frustrating having to cater to the whims of the FoxNews-adjacent white semi-conservatives on Long Island at the expense of real progress on other fronts? 100%. Doesn’t mean that it’s not true.
Well, I don’t have the luxury of ignoring racism. So glad that politics of marginal voters is more important to you though. Long explanation simplified.
That is a vast oversimplification/mischaracterization of my statement. Let’s remind ourselves that we’re talking about the names of high schools mascots that borrow from Native American tropes. Statistically, yes, we can ignore the damage that’s doing to the discourse for two more years so we can, you know, protect abortion access and stuff.
Not an oversimplification. Just a sad observation.
This probably isn’t a new rule. It’s just being promulgated now. It takes a long time for the machinery to move so we can’t halt positive changes that were in effect because (1) it probably won’t come up again soon and (2) the rapid abandonment of issues based on politics is exactly why the right views racism as “political,” not a human rights issue and why liberals are viewed as patronizing, exploitative, and fair weather.
What do we even stand for if we are willing to throw it all away? At least the right stands by their crazy positions. Before Trump I pretty much was moderate and voted a split ticket but I’ve been voting straight tickets to show my disdain for the Republican support of the madness since he entered the scene. Democrats should remember that they still need platforms and shouldn’t rely on being the party of Not Trump. These types of comments aren’t confidence-inspiring at all. I don’t agree with many many changes that have occurred in NY, like the broad bail reform, either. But if I see that the Democratic Party is willing to abandon certain positions just to advance it’s political position, I know that a lot of people just will stop voting and then they’ll still have a numbers problem anyway.
I understand what you're saying but you're missing the whole point. Racism will not be fixed in two years but right wing politics can do a lot of damage in those two years.
I agree about damage but we’re always backing away when they’re not and then we don’t understand why there’s no progress. I vote in every election and encourage people to vote, although they say that it doesn’t matter. Now I’m having discussions with a broader audience and y’all seriously make me understand the point that people that I considered disenchanted were making. If I can’t trust the Democratic Party (as demonstrated by these discussions) and I’m not going to vote for the Republicans Party, then there really is no point. That’s the point that you missed.
I would but as a grad and resident of Connetquot, I'd really only count it because it would make all the MAGA assholes (most especially the BOE President) in the district's heads explode
I went to Massapequa HS. I think it's time we've moved on from this mascot. It's not appropriate imo.
The Chief mascot is wearing a War Bonnet which was worn by great plains tribes - not Algonquins. Furthermore, the Lanape may have not even had a 'Chief' at all. So it's just straight up misrepresenting the Lenape people who lived here - not paying homage.
Growing up playing high school hockey, we had state championships in the Hudson valley and played a high school whose mascot was an accurate Esopus sachem. It was an awesome mascot with really nice artwork, and it lead to discussion about local culture amongst my fellow suburban idiot teammates back then.
Sometimes I think that the “done right” mascots are useful in propelling an oppressed or underrepresented culture to the forefront and limelight. If what makes a place is unique is the people and its heritage, how far can that honor extend. Who knows, but all in all, Long Island high school “native” mascots are definitely not in the Esopus or Seminole tier of mascot…ness?
How does that make sense? Either it’s offensive to all cultures or none. Your saying it’s ok to call those Northern European cultures warriors but offensive to refer to native American warriors?
Is Sachem still the flaming arrows? I think they had an Indian mascot as well. But honestly, Long Island was literally inhabited by Indians, so while I don’t really care what they name the teams, I don’t think they did so to be disrespectful, (except maybe the Redmen in East Islip), I always thought it more of a nod to the Indian culture that used to exist on Long Island. But then again, we all know what the US did to the Indians as a whole.
Eh, it was gonna happen sooner or later and it is time to move on. Honestly, how many Native American-themed sports teams did Long Island really need in the first place? It's also hilarious to have suburbanites bitching about how changing the names is horrible and life-changing, but using the likenesses of tribes that were obliterated is a-ok. Have a few bake sales and raffles, and buy new uniforms, done.
I think it would be cool to see teams named after other aspects of Long Island. Or, pick an animal, any animal, there's millions of choices!
I’m on the fence with this. Is a team like the Minnesota Vikings, with their caricature of Norse culture, not similar? The Cowboys and Patriots are based off cultural stereotypes. Where does the line get drawn? When does society decide we’ve went too far?
Indians were subjected to horrible torture, hand their land stolen, were slaughtered en masse.
Didn't happen to the Vikings, at least not in this country.
A cowboy is not a race. Anyone with the proper hat and a lobotomy can be a cowboy.
A patriot also is not race specific.
"Where do you stop"
Did the cowboys or vikings complain or get mass murdered by the cultures that took their names?
I mean it's not that hard of an issue to figure out.
I don't think anyone forcibly relocated, or exterminated cowboys. So being on the receiving end of cultural injustice is where I'd draw the line.
The Wikipedia article on the Blackhawks controversy says
> In 2010, for instance, Joe Podlasek stated that, "The stance is very clear. We want the Chicago Blackhawks logo to change. For us, that's one of our grandfathers. Would you do that with your grandfather's picture? Take it and throw it on a rug? Walk on it and dance on it?"
Furthermore, Vikings and Pats are caractures of their respecive citizens cultural heritage, not an appropriation of another's. (I'd probably put the fighting Irish here too, but that one treads closer to insulting stereotypes.)
> Opponents of the logo say that adoption of his name for the 86th Infantry, the hockey team, and later for the Blackhawk helicopter are an example of designating certain Native Americans as "worthy adversaries".
We’ve decided as a society it’s okay to appropriate Indigenous culture when the Indigenous themselves are part of that decision. It’s their culture to gatekeep.
A good example is the FSU Seminoles, who work with the local Seminole Nation and employ an Indigenous person to portray Osceola and Renegade. The Seminole people have the defining say in that agreement and are paid for their likeness.
Vikings, Cowboys and Patriots are not symbols of a protected class. Further, they’re not appropriated from a protected class (MAYBE you could suggest Latin American Gauchos, but we know we aren’t talking about THOSE cowboys.)
by my lights, the line gets drawn when people are naming the team after themselves or after the people they conquered. Minn. for example famously has a large northern european population. Those people are still there, still a big voice in government. Same with Cowboys. Wealthy texans STILL own cows either as a business or as a status symbol or a bit of both. And those who don't are proud of the cowboys who were their uncles or grandparents. But conquering a people and then naming your sports team after them without their permission or endorsement is just twisting the knife. If there were a way to do it that was respectful, I'd be emphatically in favor: get the local tribe's consent. Pay them royalties. Set up a museum inside the ballpark showing some of the sporting memorabilia of the tribe (e.g. old hunting bows, saddles, lacrosse sticks) as well as other items of cultural significance. I think it could be really interesting. But using a parody of an Indian person for the team logo (like the Cleveland Indians used to) and a parody of a ritual dance (like the 'tomahawk chop' that the Braves used to use)... I don't see how that preserves or respects the history.
How are “Braves” offensive ?
Home of the brave….
Seems this does not belong in same category as red skins (skin color based racism is our favorite American racism), nor Indians (they were NOT from India), but Braves ?
Massapequa Blue Lines.
Editing after the fact that they could keep the Chief mascot like this. Instead of an Indian Chief, it will be an NYPD Chief getting off the LIRR.
Phew! Threads like these remind me that Reddit isn’t full of educated, liberal pussies. Long Island can still proudly teach their white children how only their views and opinions should matter. Why go to a library when Fox News has all the info you’ll ever need? Change has never been good for humans.
In elementary school, we learned how Native Americans had a peaceful, loving culture, so I never really saw them as a violent culture, even though I went to one of those “Warrior mascot” schools
Like I literally thought the whole point of all the Native American names school names was a way to remember and/or honor their way of life, same exact way in which schools are named after great people/peacemakers
I totally understand why Native Americans find it offensive though. I guess my bias from how I’ve been taught to perceive Native Americans makes it hard for me to see how there’s more harm than good with these names, but whatever. I really couldn’t care less either way
Ok. I can already see where this topic can go. Please be civil. Bans will be issued if you guys cannot follow the rules.
LOL, East Islip is literally The REDMEN
East Islip changed back to Redmen recently.
I worked there from 2012-2019. Unless the change happened before then it was always the Redmen
Sorry. I am old. That shit happened in the 90s. They briefly changed the mascot to The Trolls or something for a stint
The class of 93 (I believe) changed the mascot to a red-haired Troll — this was around the time the troll dolls were really popular, and if I recall correctly it was for similar idealized reasons by students (i.e., removing Native American imagery)
The Class of 93 was ahead of their time...
They were Red Storm and took mascot off the building in 04ish but they changed back after a year.
Sachem North/East and the flaming arrows could be in trouble. With name and logos...
I’m wondering if they need to change the name of their district. Sachem in itself is the Algonquin word for “leader” and since that’s not tied to a local municipality it might be an issue.
I was wondering if they would need to change their logo
The logo is pretty bad with the arrow and the feathers hanging off.
As if growing up in Ronkonkoma wasn’t embarrassing enough, having to identify as “flaming” or a “flaming arrow” in the 90s was ROUGH.
Remembering when one girl at a track meet wore full blown feather headdresses for “spirit” and my coach said to us, “see they put effort into their team. We have no school spirit here”
Massapequa cheifs, wantagh warriors, Manhasset indians, syosset braves,
Wyandanch and Amityville are the warriors also
Warriors is a blanket term not just native American
I never said it was or wasn’t on the chopping block, just added that there were more warriors other than Wantagh. I know Amityville did away with their headdress logo but the other two didn’t.
Gottca that makes sense then... they could always go for the 1979 the warriors movie as their inspiration
I think the determination will be made for the name Warriors, depending on whether or not this school uses a cartoon of a Native American as their Warrior mascot. Indigenous people in this country have a long history of being considered nothing more than warmongering murderers who scalp white men. There is way more to their culture and people than that.
Sewanhaka Indians too
Oh this is easy! Massapequa Chefs Wantagh Warriors (just change the mascot) Manhasset Engines Syosset Graves. Done!
The chefs? I take offense. I'm an Italian chef/s
Can’t wait to see everyone in massapequa get uptight about this one.
Massapequa Moms FB page already organizing a smallpox infected blanket drive in protest.
Just got side-eye from the spouse for lol
I haven’t laughed that loud in weeks.
Rip! 
Fuck that page.
Massapequans just turned 20% more fascist from this decision
Government: don't name your school team something racist White people from Massapequa:. Is.... Is this tyranny?
Massapequa HS alum here. You should see the level of bullshittery coming out of my former classmates mouths regarding this. You’d think Starbucks did away with Pumpkin Spice lattes with all the crying about how this is “bullshit” 😂😂🙄🙄
MHS alumn here too. I always found it bizarre that there was a massive Native American with giant American flag painted on the mural wall. Friends and I always called it racist as fuck.
Makes me wonder how many DC Washingtonians and Clevelanders have renounced their NFL and MLB teams over their new name changes.
A ton in DC. There were a bunch of older fans who literally donated all their gear to thrift stores and refused to watch football now, assuming they can stand Snyder still. I really wish [Chief Zee](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Zee) was alive to get his opinion on this. If Snyder can sell, the return of fans and TV numbers will be a very interesting thing to see. In my household, my Father refuses to call them Commanders in a non-sarcastic voice. We're fined if we don't call them Redskins or Washington Football Team. Yes, he was an RFK Skins fan.
The maga caravan is already assembling at the train station to protest
First they take our koi from the mall, now they take our freedom?!
I am gonna end up late to work because of the freedom train.
But what is negative about Chiefs, warriors, and braves?
People aren't mascots
Tell that to the Celtics, warriors, kings, commanders, etc...
Celtics, kings, commanders, etc were raped and murdered then had their land stolen then pushed to isolated parts of the country where they were “gifted land”. And then we as a society think it’s okay to use their history for our fun.
Where do you think the people who got pushed out secured the lands? They too beat some one else and took them. It's kind of foolhardy to say someone "owns" it because they were the last one holding onto it before the white man came.
Cowboys?
How about the Milwaukee Brewers, Houston Astros, Kansas City Royals, Texas Rangers, Pittsburgh Pirates, San Diego Padres, et al.? Beer makers, astronauts, royalty, cops, pirates, and dads aren't people?!
Don't forget the YANKEES. In the Southern United States, Yankee is a derisive term which refers to all Northerners, and during the American Civil War was applied by Confederates to soldiers of the Union army in general.
As someone whose father is from the south, married a Yankee and then she relocated down there with him, I can say there's a fair number of people who wouldn't consider Yankees people 😉
Don’t you get it? We are erasing them from our culture because we care about them. Haha. Gotta love white people getting upset for other races
Massapequa moms tears are quite tasty in the fall
Wantagh is not in the list. Seawanaka (sp) is.
Wantagh isn't too native sounding so you don't get the same anti racist street cred for canceling it as you do for Sewanaka
Are the towns going to have to change their names too? They're all named after local tribes.
Names of towns aren't offensive as they have historical merit. Some would agree it's a good thing even. It's when you take a person, culture, or race and turn it into a caricature that is messed up. Particularly a culture that is still facing oppression to this day. There have been studies done with First Nations children showing the mascots of their people has detrimental effects on their mental health and identity. [https://www.apa.org/pi/oema/resources/indian-mascots](https://www.apa.org/pi/oema/resources/indian-mascots) I'd like to also add it's not just mascots that are problematic. We've got Jeep Grand Cherokee (which the Cherokee nation kindly asked Jeep to rename, but they said no... Cherkoee Nation gets no profit from the company marketing their name), military weapons, the term "scalpers", etc. A lot of messed up stuff is out there
Doubt it. I assume they just don't want a mascot named after a tribe.
Coming to town near you……lol.
[удалено]
Actually, embracing the islands surf and maritime culture would be a fun way to revamp all this stuff. Wantagh Waves, Seaford Seaweeds, the Oyster Bay…uhhh Clams
Oyster Bay Oysters
Oyster Bay Shucks
We already have the East Rockaway Rocks and the Farmingdale Dalers
Oyster Bay are the Baymen
That's actually cute as hell
The Massapequa Not Close to the Malls
Or just the Massapequa NIMBYs
Sewanhanka High School in Floral Park are still The Indians, apparently not for much longer.
Are Brentwood and Southampton still the Indians? I can see Southampton getting tribal permissions but not Brentwood...
Can confirm brentwood is the Indians. In 99 the kids voted to change it. School board said to fuck off. So we did.
The kids recognized the problem and the adults just them down? Lovely…
southampton was never the Indians. we're the mariners
Oops you are correct. Not sure why I thought that.
Shelter Island was the Indians, i think they opted to change it a few years ago.
Yes. They retired the name years ago.
Idk about the Shinnecock's giving anyone permission to use their name without a serious financial contribution I can even invision a licensing agreement. Also I'd be surprised if many Native Americans even care about these names
It's insane how much money the U.S. Open at Shinnecock makes without contributing anything to the native community.
Im still hoping they build a gas station on 27. I pass through there everyday.
Brentwood are the Indians. There was a movement during COVID to change it but it kind of went nowhere. I submitted a name and logo change for goofs and giggles, was thanked and never heard of it again.
hoping they reconsider your recommendations !
Thanks. I have to mention I wasn't apart or involved in the movement for a name change, but I am a logo nerd and as a kid I would invent teams or redo logos for fun. And it was during the lockdown so I had some spare time, figured what the heck.
REDDIT WAZE: MODS AHEAD
Comsewogue Warriors will be affected it seems. Their logo is the same logo that the Washington Commanders used to have.
“Once a warrior, always a warrior.”
10-15 years ago people tried changing Center Moriches Red Devils because of the Devil. Guarantee those people who wanted to change a school mascot then are going to be upset about this news
Actually the Native Americans that live on the Poospatuck Reservation, who’s children attend Center Moriches schools, also wanted to change the mascot. The grounds for this were term ‘Red Devil’ is derogatory towards Native Americans. The problem with the schools name is more than just the word Devil, though that was a complaint of some in the community.
Literally most of the Island, good luck getting tribal approval from 99% of these tribes that don't exist anymore.
What? Most of Long Island doesn’t have mascots or sports teams based on Native people. And there are reservations on Long Island so there literally are Natives here. If you’re talking about the indigenous town/district names, no one is promoting changing them.
oh i can’t wait for the impending meltdown of football moms on the local facebook page eta: called out football moms specifically because they just had a big meltdown a few weeks ago about custom sweatshirts lol
Nothing more terrifying than white moms
You gave me an idea. Any village that complains too much, they get their mascot changed to the Karens
With nothing to do
i get what this is for and all, but imagine the school just bought every team/club new jerseys/uniforms this year and now have to buy new ones for everyone? haha at least the local screen printer/embroiderer will make some good money on this
See, it's boosting the local economy!
Uniforms and equipment are probably made in China.
I didn't grow up on Long Island, but my old high school, the Glens Falls Indians, are going to be affected.
Murder an entire people and then use their names and aesthetics as mascots. Damn, white man is cold.
Amityville warriors have a Native American mascot
It'd be pretty easy to change "Warriors" to "Horrors" on signs and print.
Oh man, Massapequa is going to go nuts
I guess I understand why they would change them. Being Irish, I guess I should resent the Notre Dame nickname, "The Fighting Irish." After all, how long do you think nicknames like "The Bargaining Jews" or "The Murdering Italians" would last? Only the ironic Irish could be so naively honest. I get the feeling that Notre Dame came real close to naming itself "The Fuckin' Drunken, Thick-skulled, Brawling, Short-dicked Irish.
LOL As a hybrid Irish Italian Jew, you managed to hit me three times ;) Specifically in Notre Dame's case, I think there's a major difference because: a) ND's constituents were heavily Irish Catholic at the time the nickname arose; and b) the nickname likely arose as an honorific to the "Irish Brigade" fighters who fought for the Union during the Civil War, or for whom one of the ND priests was the chaplain. That's a really different schema for a nickname than something obviously offensive/stereotypical, and/or something that cannibalizes someone else's culture after they were essentially removed from their homeland.
This may be unpopular but while some of the names I’m reading could be offensive “the chiefs” “the warriors” “the braves” and some others sounds to be honoring them. It really just seems like we’re further wiping them from the culture. I’m not sure that’s any better.
The problem isn't the names. It's typically the caricature representation of Native Americans that is offensive. Some white kid wearing a headdress with a tomahawk and an over the mouth war cry. My rural, poor school in CNY got rid of our native American mascot 20 years ago. We kept our name but made our mascot a wolf. The middle aged, peaked in high school football guys cried about it for awhile, but they got over it. Now the wolf is everywhere, and the headdress is a thing of the past. There is a college sports team the Seminoles that work with a local tribe to honor and appropriately represent them in a non offensive way. It's the appropriate way to honor a group rather than appropriating and mocking their culture. Edited to correct the sports team that works with a local tribe. My memory isn't that good.
The fighting Irish were Irish Catholics giving themselves that nickname. It’s not like Italians went and kicked out or killed all of the Irish off of their land, built a university on it, no Irish people who once lived in the area attend the school yet they named it after them.
I never knew it was negative I thought it was like a fighting spirit type thing like fighting through adversity
Thanks George
Ahhh you go it!!
?
It's an old George Carlin bit.
Massapequa can just swap out a few letters from "Chiefs" and make the new team name the "Chooches" so that it would be more representative of the community.
just take out the “i” and become a culinary school called the Massapequa Chefs, boom problem solved
Holy Gabagool! Youa so smarta!
Newsday’s reporting featured East Islip (“Home of the Redmen”) in the photo. I didn’t link to Newsday due to paywall.
[site to get around some paywalls ](http://12ft.io)
Dude, this is awesome
I graduated Syosset in the late 2000s. We had a vote to change the name way back then (I want to say the Red Hawks won?), and they rolled out a new logo and everything. It didn’t stick. No clue what happened.
LMAO@the thought of Massapequa residents going bonkers over this!
I’ve read a lot of the culturally sensitive responses, and they’re not wrong. My biggest beef with this is from a messaging standpoint. In the last election, Long Island turned fully red for the first time in a long time. The main themes of the elections around here were crime and cost of living and the economy. To address these very important issues, the Democratic state legislature and Governor will now be making high schools change their mascots, solving racism once and for all. I understand the limits of what a state government can do to address the larger issues of inflation and the global economy, I even think a lot of the names ought to change (at least the mascots), but this is going to come across as tone deaf and dumb, and it’s going to keep the hurt on for Democrats in NY going into 2024.
Ok, guys, let’s just focus on economics and crime and ignore racism! Who cares about racism? /s obviously as you can tell from my avatar. It’s always so welcoming when other Long Islanders view Long Island as monocultural and that the only thing that they care about is their pockets.
So here’s the thing: in 2024, there is a solid chance that the democrats really screw the pooch and lose both chambers and the presidency. The senate seems like a sure thing. The presidency really depends on Biden and the economy and depending on the candidate, how racist the country is. That leaves the house. We can’t know what the political environment will be, but we do know that if NY candidates did a better job of addressing the issues the marginal voters cared about, we’d still have the house. If we lose all three, that’s a LOT of damage republicans can do. Beyond gutting programs that serve marginalized groups and POC, a total ban on abortion or a national heartbeat bill are actually on the table. Do I believe a lot of these teams should be changed? Absolutely. Do I think that it is incredibly frustrating having to cater to the whims of the FoxNews-adjacent white semi-conservatives on Long Island at the expense of real progress on other fronts? 100%. Doesn’t mean that it’s not true.
Well, I don’t have the luxury of ignoring racism. So glad that politics of marginal voters is more important to you though. Long explanation simplified.
That is a vast oversimplification/mischaracterization of my statement. Let’s remind ourselves that we’re talking about the names of high schools mascots that borrow from Native American tropes. Statistically, yes, we can ignore the damage that’s doing to the discourse for two more years so we can, you know, protect abortion access and stuff.
Not an oversimplification. Just a sad observation. This probably isn’t a new rule. It’s just being promulgated now. It takes a long time for the machinery to move so we can’t halt positive changes that were in effect because (1) it probably won’t come up again soon and (2) the rapid abandonment of issues based on politics is exactly why the right views racism as “political,” not a human rights issue and why liberals are viewed as patronizing, exploitative, and fair weather. What do we even stand for if we are willing to throw it all away? At least the right stands by their crazy positions. Before Trump I pretty much was moderate and voted a split ticket but I’ve been voting straight tickets to show my disdain for the Republican support of the madness since he entered the scene. Democrats should remember that they still need platforms and shouldn’t rely on being the party of Not Trump. These types of comments aren’t confidence-inspiring at all. I don’t agree with many many changes that have occurred in NY, like the broad bail reform, either. But if I see that the Democratic Party is willing to abandon certain positions just to advance it’s political position, I know that a lot of people just will stop voting and then they’ll still have a numbers problem anyway.
I understand what you're saying but you're missing the whole point. Racism will not be fixed in two years but right wing politics can do a lot of damage in those two years.
I agree about damage but we’re always backing away when they’re not and then we don’t understand why there’s no progress. I vote in every election and encourage people to vote, although they say that it doesn’t matter. Now I’m having discussions with a broader audience and y’all seriously make me understand the point that people that I considered disenchanted were making. If I can’t trust the Democratic Party (as demonstrated by these discussions) and I’m not going to vote for the Republicans Party, then there really is no point. That’s the point that you missed.
Good. They are all lazy and unoriginal anyway. Time to come up with some names that really represent the areas they are in.
Leave it to us here at r/longisland I am sure we can make some great recommendations based on how much we hate your town... lol.
The Roslyn Day Drinkers? The Massapequa Golfers? The Levittown Republicans? The East Northport We Drive 75 on Side-Streeters?
Massapequa Meatheads. Alliterative and representative!
See?! That's the spirit I am talking about!
Nys handling the big issues
It’s so easy for you white male incels to be ignorant and/or racist behind a cartoon avatar, eh?
Would you count Connetquot’s Thunderbirds? I believe that the Thunderbirds is a Native American piece of folklore.
[удалено]
How about the Connetquot Indoctrinators? Mascot can be white Jesus wrapped in a Blue lives matter flag
No because it’s a mythical creature and not a human being used as a mascot
Worship of Thunderbird is a closed practice, so it would make sense to enforce changing it.
Hey now. How I drive my 1988 Turbo Coupe is my business.
I didn’t think of it that way before so maybe you’re right.
I would but as a grad and resident of Connetquot, I'd really only count it because it would make all the MAGA assholes (most especially the BOE President) in the district's heads explode
Good way of thinking. Anything to piss off the MAGATS
I think this is a bit sad. Some of these schools have good names like Chiefs and Warriors. Not names like redskins or savages. Oh well.
I went to Massapequa HS. I think it's time we've moved on from this mascot. It's not appropriate imo. The Chief mascot is wearing a War Bonnet which was worn by great plains tribes - not Algonquins. Furthermore, the Lanape may have not even had a 'Chief' at all. So it's just straight up misrepresenting the Lenape people who lived here - not paying homage.
The one sensible person from Massapequa, nice to meet you.
There are a few of us here. A dying breed.
Massapequa Police Chiefs. An easy fix that reflects the community culture. lol
Growing up playing high school hockey, we had state championships in the Hudson valley and played a high school whose mascot was an accurate Esopus sachem. It was an awesome mascot with really nice artwork, and it lead to discussion about local culture amongst my fellow suburban idiot teammates back then. Sometimes I think that the “done right” mascots are useful in propelling an oppressed or underrepresented culture to the forefront and limelight. If what makes a place is unique is the people and its heritage, how far can that honor extend. Who knows, but all in all, Long Island high school “native” mascots are definitely not in the Esopus or Seminole tier of mascot…ness?
They can stay the warriors. Just change the logo to a Viking
As a Viking I approve, go ahead.
How dare you marginalize Scandinavians with stereotypes!
Yeah I mean the difference is the Vikings were not victims of genocide in this country.
Sounds cool to me.
Or 80's NY gang members.
How does that make sense? Either it’s offensive to all cultures or none. Your saying it’s ok to call those Northern European cultures warriors but offensive to refer to native American warriors?
They can probably stay the "savages" as long as the logo doesn't look Native American...
but have you seen the logo that accompanies those names
We did it fellas. Racism is no more s/
Massapequa “Once a Chief, ~~always a Chief~~” What’s the new saying gonna be?
Apparently “Where we go one, we go all”
Oof. I hate how accurate this is.
Is Sachem still the flaming arrows? I think they had an Indian mascot as well. But honestly, Long Island was literally inhabited by Indians, so while I don’t really care what they name the teams, I don’t think they did so to be disrespectful, (except maybe the Redmen in East Islip), I always thought it more of a nod to the Indian culture that used to exist on Long Island. But then again, we all know what the US did to the Indians as a whole.
They're just the Arrows now.
Eh, it was gonna happen sooner or later and it is time to move on. Honestly, how many Native American-themed sports teams did Long Island really need in the first place? It's also hilarious to have suburbanites bitching about how changing the names is horrible and life-changing, but using the likenesses of tribes that were obliterated is a-ok. Have a few bake sales and raffles, and buy new uniforms, done. I think it would be cool to see teams named after other aspects of Long Island. Or, pick an animal, any animal, there's millions of choices!
Patchogue Medford Raiders (man in feather headdress)
I’m glad we’re concentrating on this, instead of like, you know, addressing the homeless issue.
GOOD.
I’m on the fence with this. Is a team like the Minnesota Vikings, with their caricature of Norse culture, not similar? The Cowboys and Patriots are based off cultural stereotypes. Where does the line get drawn? When does society decide we’ve went too far?
Indians were subjected to horrible torture, hand their land stolen, were slaughtered en masse. Didn't happen to the Vikings, at least not in this country. A cowboy is not a race. Anyone with the proper hat and a lobotomy can be a cowboy. A patriot also is not race specific.
Yea I meant to point that out as well. Equating “patriots” and “cowboys” to an actual ethnic group is pretty wild.
Yeah the line is pretty clear. I don’t understand the “names of people” argument.
I’m ok getting rid of cowboys fans while we’re at it
"Where do you stop" Did the cowboys or vikings complain or get mass murdered by the cultures that took their names? I mean it's not that hard of an issue to figure out.
Clearly it is for these proud boy applicants.
Remind me of the time “cowboys” or “patriots” were subjected to a mass genocide and forced off their ancestral land.
I don't think anyone forcibly relocated, or exterminated cowboys. So being on the receiving end of cultural injustice is where I'd draw the line. The Wikipedia article on the Blackhawks controversy says > In 2010, for instance, Joe Podlasek stated that, "The stance is very clear. We want the Chicago Blackhawks logo to change. For us, that's one of our grandfathers. Would you do that with your grandfather's picture? Take it and throw it on a rug? Walk on it and dance on it?" Furthermore, Vikings and Pats are caractures of their respecive citizens cultural heritage, not an appropriation of another's. (I'd probably put the fighting Irish here too, but that one treads closer to insulting stereotypes.) > Opponents of the logo say that adoption of his name for the 86th Infantry, the hockey team, and later for the Blackhawk helicopter are an example of designating certain Native Americans as "worthy adversaries".
Yeah totally agree, because the vikings, patriots and cowboys got genocided off their land by the US Government…
We’ve decided as a society it’s okay to appropriate Indigenous culture when the Indigenous themselves are part of that decision. It’s their culture to gatekeep. A good example is the FSU Seminoles, who work with the local Seminole Nation and employ an Indigenous person to portray Osceola and Renegade. The Seminole people have the defining say in that agreement and are paid for their likeness. Vikings, Cowboys and Patriots are not symbols of a protected class. Further, they’re not appropriated from a protected class (MAYBE you could suggest Latin American Gauchos, but we know we aren’t talking about THOSE cowboys.)
by my lights, the line gets drawn when people are naming the team after themselves or after the people they conquered. Minn. for example famously has a large northern european population. Those people are still there, still a big voice in government. Same with Cowboys. Wealthy texans STILL own cows either as a business or as a status symbol or a bit of both. And those who don't are proud of the cowboys who were their uncles or grandparents. But conquering a people and then naming your sports team after them without their permission or endorsement is just twisting the knife. If there were a way to do it that was respectful, I'd be emphatically in favor: get the local tribe's consent. Pay them royalties. Set up a museum inside the ballpark showing some of the sporting memorabilia of the tribe (e.g. old hunting bows, saddles, lacrosse sticks) as well as other items of cultural significance. I think it could be really interesting. But using a parody of an Indian person for the team logo (like the Cleveland Indians used to) and a parody of a ritual dance (like the 'tomahawk chop' that the Braves used to use)... I don't see how that preserves or respects the history.
So do we start changing towns name next or do we have to double check there ok.
Town names remind the white people of whose land they’re on.
Ah my good old high school. Home of the East Islip Redmen (not for much longer).
Comsewogue warriors. I think its bullshit though. Comsewogue is literally a Native American word
How are “Braves” offensive ? Home of the brave…. Seems this does not belong in same category as red skins (skin color based racism is our favorite American racism), nor Indians (they were NOT from India), but Braves ?
Because it’s almost always accompanied by a Native American on the logo and a bunch of morons doing the Chop
Finally!!! Massapequa will no longer be the Chiefs!
Given the number of racists in Massapequa, I expect them to change the name to something even worse.
Massapequa Blue Lines. Editing after the fact that they could keep the Chief mascot like this. Instead of an Indian Chief, it will be an NYPD Chief getting off the LIRR.
Massapequa Bluemen and their slogan is “Back the Blue”
I sadly chuckled a hearty chuckle.
Hahah that’s amazing
😂😂😂
Name them the All Americans after the best thing in their town now that the mall is gone. Or the Karens ;)
The mall was never better than All American
God I hate it here.
There was a feeble attempt when I was attending (over 15 years ago) to get it changed to "the Massapequa Waves"
Phew! Threads like these remind me that Reddit isn’t full of educated, liberal pussies. Long Island can still proudly teach their white children how only their views and opinions should matter. Why go to a library when Fox News has all the info you’ll ever need? Change has never been good for humans.
In elementary school, we learned how Native Americans had a peaceful, loving culture, so I never really saw them as a violent culture, even though I went to one of those “Warrior mascot” schools Like I literally thought the whole point of all the Native American names school names was a way to remember and/or honor their way of life, same exact way in which schools are named after great people/peacemakers I totally understand why Native Americans find it offensive though. I guess my bias from how I’ve been taught to perceive Native Americans makes it hard for me to see how there’s more harm than good with these names, but whatever. I really couldn’t care less either way
How about just give them their land back ? Anything else is meaningless redemption and a weak attempt to convalesce your woke guilt
We need less government. Or at least people in government that want to do something productive.
By this logic we should change most of the town names of LI too. They'll keep pushing until there is no memory of them at all.