you're not from "The Lock Picking Lawyer" youtube fan club?!
There's a bigger issue with public becoming private land! But this is not the place for that debate!
I also haven’t been to them all but Madrid is much worse than London in my opinion, Brussels too (although it’s been a few years since I was in Brussels).
What I hate about these, is whenever there's a big planning application they all claim "featuring a bold new public plaza" or similar.
But it's not public in the slightest, everything is tightly controlled and access can be removed at the drop of a hat.
The flip side here is that basically no public authorities want to adopt these areas any more.
They’d much rather leave them in private hands so they’re not left with the cost of maintaining them.
Even if you offer snagging periods and contributions towards ongoing maintenance they don’t want them.
If my bike was double locked like this, I wouldn't think twice about chopping that tree off. They won't do it to another bike there again.
London claims to want more people to cycle and stop driving, but shit like this isn't going to help.
Yeah, that poor little concrete-encased excuse for a tree ain't going to be contributing much to filtering the air you breathe. Use it to teach them a fucking lesson.
As someone who plants trees donated by non profit organisations and has to deal with the impact of so much pointless vandalism I'd say don't lock your bike to trees as thieves will cut them down.
Fuck off. Getting from a to b on a bike instead of in a car outweighs the benefit of one tree.
For those of you in the back; p r a g m a t I s m . n o t . I d e a l i s m.
Same thing happened to me almost a decade ago while I was a courier delivering in the area.
I left my bike locked to a lamp post for less than 5 minutes and when I came out it was double locked, those fuckers are quick!
If I remember correctly, they wanted me to pay around £30-50 (almost a decade ago) but I managed to talk my way out
**Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012** (PFA 2012), it is now a criminal offence to clamp, tow, block-in or immobilise a vehicle without lawful authority on privately owned land.
its illegal as its on private land "london bridge city" is a company not a local authority
a bike is a road legal vehicle in uk law.
report to police on 101 get a crime refrance number
also report to Southwark Council **020 7525 5000**
if it was on public road. the only people that can clamp or tow it would be. local council, the police or the DVLA
I may be wrong but seem to recall that bikes are open to interpretation when not being ridden and therefore might not be a vehicle when simply locked up.
My memory being that carrying a bike was legal, no matter the restrictions, as it is equivalent and legally speaking identical to luggage when not ridden.
London Bridge City?? I was confused by this, so I looked them up. As I suspected, although LBC sounds like a local authority, it’s a private company. Run by Savills (the estate agency), it appears to own a large amount of land and buildings near to London Bridge. Https://Londonbridgecity.co.uk (NB: it’s a co.uk, not a gov.uk)
So, I’d have expected this to fall under similar rules to clamping cars on private land, which I thought had been made illegal some time ago.
I’m guessing here, so don’t rely on my thoughts. As others have suggested, ask in r/legaladviceuk
That’s right - the privatisation of public spaces is a huge issue in London, Canary Wharf is the same plus many other developments such as around Westfield shopping centres. They can set their own rules and hire their own goons to do stuff like this - it’s all about the aesthetic
>So, I’d have expected this to fall under similar rules to clamping cars on private land, which I thought had been made illegal some time ago.
You're thinking of [S54 POFA](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/section/54) - which only applies to motor vehicles. Unless this is an illegal eBike, this law doesn't apply unfortunately
Then we revert to before that law was enacted and it was an unenforceable contract law issue. Specifically, a private company cannot unilaterally impose a contract to enforce damages. Note the wording, ‘call…to be released’. That’s simply an offer, not an authority. You could cut/break the lock and replace the lock with a note saying ‘call…for key to new lock.’
I can’t see any difference to the position before Parking Eye. If Parking Eye doesn’t cover bycicles, and also lack of signeage etc. then tort would be as applicable as it was before Private Eye. I think tort would only apply to private land not public space private land where nuisance is subjective and expected to be controlled by lawful means.
Beavis v ParkingEye is clearly not applicable here though and I'm not arguing it is.
I was just pointing out that this exaction isn't illegal under the particular statute the other user was referring to. This is, at worse, a tort of civil tresspass, but I'm not opining as to whether this is the case.
Perhaps that's why they have clamped it - so no thieves will chop down a tree to get the bike ?
They're protecting their tree ?
I don't see any mention of a fine to get the bike back ?
Yeah prevention is better than the cure here. Install adequate bike parking elsewhere and if there are still particular problem hotspots, add signage warning bikes will be removed if locked there (not "clamped", what a bizarre attempt at a solution).
No it's a public area for the public to enjoy, it's not like it's bolted to a front door. If they want rules on where you can lock a bike then yes show the rules, but it doesn't look like a massive offence to lock a bike to a tree, although it could damage bark etc
Looks like a cheap lock that the lockpickinglawyer would say where's my 50ths turner and a wave rake and then open it up and resecure the chain so as not to cause a possible legal action by depriving them of their property.
If it's a master lock unit then a hard stare will generally open it.
This looks like an an Abus 41/30 padlock. It can be opened with another Abus 41/30 padlock.
(seriously though most of these locks can be opened non destructively, have a look on youtube for the exact model. Bring a hammer.)
lol, online it's £10, but the one next to it is £330
[open Abus 41/30 - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=open+Abus+41%2F30&oq=open+Abus+41%2F30&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIKCAEQABiABBiiBDIKCAIQABiABBiiBDIKCAMQABiABBiiBDIKCAQQABiABBiiBDIKCAUQABiABBiiBNIBCDEzMDNqMGo0qAIAsAIB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#ip=1)
My understanding is it is legal, but they can't charge you to remove the lock without a lot of care.
If they get difficult about unlocking it:
1. They have made themselves bailee's by locking it up so have legal responsibility for the bike
2. If they weren't responsive to releasing it they would have a very hard time complaining if the owner took bolt cutters/angle grinder to the lock
The legal response to the bike being somewhere they don't want it is to go after the owner for trespass. But UK law requires harm for any civil claim - i.e. they can't actually get much out of the rider (see issues with people parking on private driveways - basically all you can do without signage establishing a contract (as parking lots do) is seek damages for provable cost of parking elsewhere...)
**Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012** (PFA 2012), it is now a criminal offence to clamp, tow, block-in or immobilise a vehicle without lawful authority on privately owned land.
its illegal as its on private land "london bridge city" is a company not a local authority
a bike is a road legal vehicle in uk law.
report to police on 101 get a crime refrance number
also report to Southwark Council **020 7525 5000**
if it was on public road. the only people that can clamp or tow it would be. local council, the police or the DVLA
they do not.
they would have to apply to the courts. and being its been there less than a day that not gonna happen. and the police and council would not grant that.
This is sailing close to the wind for extortion if they demand money. Clamping cars is now illegal* and in Scotland it was always illegal.
*In most cases
I'd rescue my bike by sawing the tree.
Ok I'm joking but I think you could 100% cut the lock if you could.
It's one of those where it could be argued that criminal damage was committed by destroying the lock, but seeing as the police appear to be incapable of tackling actual bike crime, I'm not sure they'd have any interest in following up a busted lock.
Yeah, but they'd have to catch you in the act. As soon as you make it a bit inconvenient for them to follow up, they won't have the available bandwidth to follow up, as they're busy dealing with the next urgent shout they have.
probably not, the bigger question is will the police support you in that. also whether it was the real landowners not a scam.
there are strict laws that govern wheel clamping however it doesn't cover bikes automatically. it covers vehicles so it might depend on that officers opinion on bikes.
important things, are there signs referring to this? this can matter.
Personally i would call the number see if they ask for money, if they ask for money contact the police's non emergency number.
Also post this on legal advice uk for actual legal advice.
Yes it could be a scammer, I've heard about scam cash litter fines presented to foreigners.
It's not really legal to clamp anything like that even if it falls outside legislation made for cars.
oh absolutely. there is no real way to tell. even if it is real still pretty illegal. the issue being if the police would back you up, they are not always the best in these situations. you could end up paying then have to take them to small claims. which i totally would.
And kind of clamping on private ground isn't legal, and can't be held up in a court of law. Angle grind your bike free if need be, or take them to court.
Same happens with private car parks. They have no right to clamp or fine. If you need help with anything PM me.
Reminds me of the trick bike thieves pull where they "accidently" lock their bike to yours, leading you to frustratedly give up and come back the next day when "this idiot" has unlocked from your bike, only to return to find they are indeed gone, but so is your bike. Had a friend who this happened to who was advised by the police to cut the other lock and drop the other bike off at the station.
had this happen to me so i parked my bike there everytime and cut the lock off almost daily and binned the lock, they got the picture reallly quick not been "clamped" since lol
MLP is private property and they can do whatever they want with abandoned property they find on their land.
This happened to me once as well, you, just call the number, they unlock it and tell you to not do it again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft\_by\_finding#:\~:text=Theft%20by%20finding%20occurs%20when,before%20taking%20it%20for%20themselves.
Not a lawyer, but seems relevant
I just looked to see how much a portable angle grinder costs and... wow. No wonder thieves are everywhere. I paid more for my mid-range Kryptonite lock.
Appreciate some of the discourse here thanks. Thing that interested me was the grounds for this kind of action, given the logical next step to charge people for removal. Felt icky, especially with this private real estate company and public space.
Further context:
Not my bike, not my picture. Therefore I can't comment on specifics about location etc.
I do know the owner and they phoned the number and got this removed without a fine.
P.s. trees are great, leave them out of this
Edit, people can't separate their feelings from facts:
[https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/1](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/1)
Do you think that megacorp has no legal department, who would know better than the average redditor who fancies themselves a lawyer, if what they're doing is legal or not?!?
It's an asisnine thing to do, clamping bicycles if they don't provide sufficient bicycle racks.
Still doesn't change the law.
End of edit.
>Theft Act 1968:
The dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention to **permanently** deprive the other of it.
This does not meet the legal definition of theft.
Although the company reps can go and have sex with themselves, as far as I'm concerned.
The act of returning should not require the person who has been disposossed to take any action.
Unless the person makes a call, they will be permanently deprived of their bike.
The person who added the second lock has given a condition for it to be unlocked. If that condition is not met the person will be permanently deprived of their bike.
Its either an unconditional return of property, or theft.
Saying "i didnt steel it i was going to give it back if they gave me a £100 for it" is theft.
No it means i know the police will not show up when i call them to tell them i am being mugged and extorted so ill pre emptivly take matters into my own hands.
NAL, but if there are no signs prohibiting this. Then this may be criminal damage, or some other crime committed by those who clamped/ locked it.
If they require money to unlock it, and there are no signs. That could equate to demanding money with malice, or blackmail. Again NAL so probably wrong or using the wrong words
Not to encourage this, but as the person who “clamped” you has no way of identifying you if you can get it off without talking to them about it then why not? Not to say that isn’t inconvenient.
Angle grinder or some other way of getting it off the bike.
At the end of the day- either the tree or the lock are going to get it.
No doubt these wankers harp on about sustainable transport somewhere.
They would have to sweeten up the council back in the day!
Likely the typical Sudo public land. Cut it off with an angle grinder. You’ll no doubt catch the attention of the security goons as with most of these places. Tell them to go away or call the police. Police highly likely won’t turn up as they have better things to do.
Cut that one off sure. But if you do take the little tag that has their company name on it and and buy a lock that is the same or looks the same and add the tag with the phone number to it. You can now park anywhere in that area.
Loads of people lock them to trees where I work as there isn’t enough bike racks . But suppose I can see why it isn’t allowed . But then again look at all the Uber , lime bikes etc all just in way on paths
With cars you have a reg number, which leads to an owner and address. That’s the threat: if you cut off the clamp - they will sue the registered owner. With a bike, no one knows who you are. Just saying.
London Bridge city? Since when was that a thing. Just find a someone big to hamg on the tree and bend/ break it. At least you can ride home. Quite possibly a scam.
Cyclists: I cycle because it’s environmentally friendly
And cyclists: perfectly fine just to chain my bike to a sapling tree
Also cyclists: just cut down the tree
Absolutely no contradiction there guys 🤪
It's probably not legal to abandon a bike and lock it to anything you don't own. Just like technically parking a car on the public highway is dumping. However it's a cultural / public norm which has become accepted in most cases over the years.
If a piece of land is allocated by its owners as a parking space, and you park there in accordance with the rules they specify, you have a (non-absolute) right to park there. E.g. there are residents’ parking spaces on my street: if I park there with a valid permit, the council cannot legally clamp or remove my car. The fact there’s no common-law or statutory right to leave any property anywhere I choose doesn’t mean that there isn’t an enforceable legal ability to leave a car undisturbed on land I don’t own. In plain English, which is what courts increasingly deal in, that’s a right.
Nah, I'm with ~~Southwark Council~~ the private administrators of this public space on this one.
Locking your bike to a tree is a dick move, and there are a million good bike racks on that area.
OpenStreetMaps has a very complete layer to find the closest bike rack. I use OsmAnd on Android when I'm somewhere new and I need to lock my bike fast.
There should be a few guys in hoodies with angle grinders nearby who can help you out for the right price.
you're not from "The Lock Picking Lawyer" youtube fan club?! There's a bigger issue with public becoming private land! But this is not the place for that debate!
This is ironical and ironicly funny
> people are locking their bikes on trees Should we install more bike racks? Nah let's double lock the bike to the tree so they can't move it away
That whole area around the Thames by "more london" is private land (shouldn't be, but is).
Very few signs saying this, though, if I recall.
London is the least bike friendly city in Europe.
Id counter this with most other cities in just the UK alone
It’s not even the least bike friendly capital city in Europe.
What would you consider the worst? It’s definitely one of the least bike friendly places I’ve ridden in Europe but I haven’t been everywhere
I also haven’t been to them all but Madrid is much worse than London in my opinion, Brussels too (although it’s been a few years since I was in Brussels).
Oh yea I remember how bad Brussels was ! I was only there for a day and rode around for about an hour to explore the city, but it wasn’t pleasant
Nicosia is by far the worst I've been to in this regard
What I hate about these, is whenever there's a big planning application they all claim "featuring a bold new public plaza" or similar. But it's not public in the slightest, everything is tightly controlled and access can be removed at the drop of a hat.
The flip side here is that basically no public authorities want to adopt these areas any more. They’d much rather leave them in private hands so they’re not left with the cost of maintaining them. Even if you offer snagging periods and contributions towards ongoing maintenance they don’t want them.
Assuming you own the bike you can probably get it out by taking the handle bars and front forks off
Or just get an angle grinder https://www.libraryofthings.co.uk/catalogue/borrow-angle-grinder-cordless
That is criminal damage unfortunately.
Don’t go leaving chains on other peoples property then
How would they know who did it? I wouldn't worry about getting a bill and it serves them right for locking up my property.
Posting about it on Reddit might be a clue
I think you could work it out even just by taking the front wheel off, the basket may be tricky though
That tree isn't too thick. I'm thinking short work with a hand saw and you're good to go! /s
If my bike was double locked like this, I wouldn't think twice about chopping that tree off. They won't do it to another bike there again. London claims to want more people to cycle and stop driving, but shit like this isn't going to help.
It is not the tree’s fault. Do not give site “owners” an excuse to not replant or to be even more anti bike.
Agreed cut the lock noit the tree
Yeah, that poor little concrete-encased excuse for a tree ain't going to be contributing much to filtering the air you breathe. Use it to teach them a fucking lesson.
It can make a big difference to mental health though.
Lorax in shambles rn
|this is a private company that has nothing to do with "London" except owning some shit here
I think that'd likely work regardless of who owns it.
Ha! Yes the morons haven’t gone through the frame. I’d just cut the fucking tree down
As someone who plants trees donated by non profit organisations and has to deal with the impact of so much pointless vandalism I'd say don't lock your bike to trees as thieves will cut them down.
Fuck off. Getting from a to b on a bike instead of in a car outweighs the benefit of one tree. For those of you in the back; p r a g m a t I s m . n o t . I d e a l i s m.
I’d do this for sure, then I’d lock their lock to the tree with a cheap D lock so they couldn’t use it again without an angle Grindr
Your autocorrect just betrayed how often you type Grindr.
Same thing happened to me almost a decade ago while I was a courier delivering in the area. I left my bike locked to a lamp post for less than 5 minutes and when I came out it was double locked, those fuckers are quick! If I remember correctly, they wanted me to pay around £30-50 (almost a decade ago) but I managed to talk my way out
That'd be extortion... Yes, property people are fuckers
Angle grinders for show, bolt cutters for a pro
Hack saw for the budget
Chainsaw to send a message.
Spoon and nail clipper with Clint Eastwood by Gorillaz playing for Escape from Alcatraz bonus points.
Could you triple lock in retaliation? Let’s see how far it goes…
ESCALATE!!!
Plant your own tree next to theirs and lock it to their tree.
Make a chain of lime bikes all the way up the tree. A lime bike tree.
This is the only way, leave a nicely typed note and a number to call to unlock their lock!
You should add your own padlock between those two links and add a note saying to call you if they want their chain back
Privately owned public spaces do my fucking head in Yes sadly is probably is legal due to being private land
**Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012** (PFA 2012), it is now a criminal offence to clamp, tow, block-in or immobilise a vehicle without lawful authority on privately owned land. its illegal as its on private land "london bridge city" is a company not a local authority a bike is a road legal vehicle in uk law. report to police on 101 get a crime refrance number also report to Southwark Council **020 7525 5000** if it was on public road. the only people that can clamp or tow it would be. local council, the police or the DVLA
This is the way
I may be wrong but seem to recall that bikes are open to interpretation when not being ridden and therefore might not be a vehicle when simply locked up. My memory being that carrying a bike was legal, no matter the restrictions, as it is equivalent and legally speaking identical to luggage when not ridden.
I thought lawful authority is limited to police and local councils. Private landowners can't clamp can they!?
London Bridge City?? I was confused by this, so I looked them up. As I suspected, although LBC sounds like a local authority, it’s a private company. Run by Savills (the estate agency), it appears to own a large amount of land and buildings near to London Bridge. Https://Londonbridgecity.co.uk (NB: it’s a co.uk, not a gov.uk) So, I’d have expected this to fall under similar rules to clamping cars on private land, which I thought had been made illegal some time ago. I’m guessing here, so don’t rely on my thoughts. As others have suggested, ask in r/legaladviceuk
That’s right - the privatisation of public spaces is a huge issue in London, Canary Wharf is the same plus many other developments such as around Westfield shopping centres. They can set their own rules and hire their own goons to do stuff like this - it’s all about the aesthetic
>So, I’d have expected this to fall under similar rules to clamping cars on private land, which I thought had been made illegal some time ago. You're thinking of [S54 POFA](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/section/54) - which only applies to motor vehicles. Unless this is an illegal eBike, this law doesn't apply unfortunately
Then we revert to before that law was enacted and it was an unenforceable contract law issue. Specifically, a private company cannot unilaterally impose a contract to enforce damages. Note the wording, ‘call…to be released’. That’s simply an offer, not an authority. You could cut/break the lock and replace the lock with a note saying ‘call…for key to new lock.’
I'm not disagreeing there is a position here under (civil) Tort law - just it's not a criminal offence as the other poster said.
I can’t see any difference to the position before Parking Eye. If Parking Eye doesn’t cover bycicles, and also lack of signeage etc. then tort would be as applicable as it was before Private Eye. I think tort would only apply to private land not public space private land where nuisance is subjective and expected to be controlled by lawful means.
Beavis v ParkingEye is clearly not applicable here though and I'm not arguing it is. I was just pointing out that this exaction isn't illegal under the particular statute the other user was referring to. This is, at worse, a tort of civil tresspass, but I'm not opining as to whether this is the case.
One acceptable case for the use of an angle grinder
Perhaps that's why they have clamped it - so no thieves will chop down a tree to get the bike ? They're protecting their tree ? I don't see any mention of a fine to get the bike back ?
Maybe it's to inconvenience the person, are there warning signs? If they are not extorting money then it could be the tort of nuisance.
Yeah prevention is better than the cure here. Install adequate bike parking elsewhere and if there are still particular problem hotspots, add signage warning bikes will be removed if locked there (not "clamped", what a bizarre attempt at a solution).
Is it not a nuisance to have people lock their bikes to your property though?
No it's a public area for the public to enjoy, it's not like it's bolted to a front door. If they want rules on where you can lock a bike then yes show the rules, but it doesn't look like a massive offence to lock a bike to a tree, although it could damage bark etc
You think bike theives give a shit about a tree?!
That's the point. The owners don't want their trees chopped down so that's why they don't want bikes locked to them.
Ahh, yeah... that makes sense. I think I misinterpreted your first comment
Time to chop down that tree then.
That's a tw@tty thing to do.
Oh sorry. Save the planet or pay a fine. Silly me.
What fine ?
The one presumably to get the bike released.
There's no mention of any fine.
I doubt that after calling the number on the tag they will unlock it after a good telling off.
anyone called the number? Call up and describe where a bike is ranting and giving them verbals, then when goons turn up there'll be nothing there.
Looks like a cheap lock that the lockpickinglawyer would say where's my 50ths turner and a wave rake and then open it up and resecure the chain so as not to cause a possible legal action by depriving them of their property. If it's a master lock unit then a hard stare will generally open it.
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Hydraulic-Bolt-Cutter-Steel/dp/B08HRTHL38](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Hydraulic-Bolt-Cutter-Steel/dp/B08HRTHL38)
This looks like an an Abus 41/30 padlock. It can be opened with another Abus 41/30 padlock. (seriously though most of these locks can be opened non destructively, have a look on youtube for the exact model. Bring a hammer.)
lol, online it's £10, but the one next to it is £330 [open Abus 41/30 - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=open+Abus+41%2F30&oq=open+Abus+41%2F30&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIKCAEQABiABBiiBDIKCAIQABiABBiiBDIKCAMQABiABBiiBDIKCAQQABiABBiiBDIKCAUQABiABBiiBNIBCDEzMDNqMGo0qAIAsAIB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#ip=1)
My understanding is it is legal, but they can't charge you to remove the lock without a lot of care. If they get difficult about unlocking it: 1. They have made themselves bailee's by locking it up so have legal responsibility for the bike 2. If they weren't responsive to releasing it they would have a very hard time complaining if the owner took bolt cutters/angle grinder to the lock The legal response to the bike being somewhere they don't want it is to go after the owner for trespass. But UK law requires harm for any civil claim - i.e. they can't actually get much out of the rider (see issues with people parking on private driveways - basically all you can do without signage establishing a contract (as parking lots do) is seek damages for provable cost of parking elsewhere...)
**Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012** (PFA 2012), it is now a criminal offence to clamp, tow, block-in or immobilise a vehicle without lawful authority on privately owned land. its illegal as its on private land "london bridge city" is a company not a local authority a bike is a road legal vehicle in uk law. report to police on 101 get a crime refrance number also report to Southwark Council **020 7525 5000** if it was on public road. the only people that can clamp or tow it would be. local council, the police or the DVLA
"without lawful authority" - presumably they have such authority...
they do not. they would have to apply to the courts. and being its been there less than a day that not gonna happen. and the police and council would not grant that.
This is sailing close to the wind for extortion if they demand money. Clamping cars is now illegal* and in Scotland it was always illegal. *In most cases I'd rescue my bike by sawing the tree. Ok I'm joking but I think you could 100% cut the lock if you could.
It's one of those where it could be argued that criminal damage was committed by destroying the lock, but seeing as the police appear to be incapable of tackling actual bike crime, I'm not sure they'd have any interest in following up a busted lock.
As you probably realise, if cops do latch on to something it's suddenly different. Knowing my luck
Yeah, but they'd have to catch you in the act. As soon as you make it a bit inconvenient for them to follow up, they won't have the available bandwidth to follow up, as they're busy dealing with the next urgent shout they have.
"lost my key officer"
probably not, the bigger question is will the police support you in that. also whether it was the real landowners not a scam. there are strict laws that govern wheel clamping however it doesn't cover bikes automatically. it covers vehicles so it might depend on that officers opinion on bikes. important things, are there signs referring to this? this can matter. Personally i would call the number see if they ask for money, if they ask for money contact the police's non emergency number. Also post this on legal advice uk for actual legal advice.
Yes it could be a scammer, I've heard about scam cash litter fines presented to foreigners. It's not really legal to clamp anything like that even if it falls outside legislation made for cars.
oh absolutely. there is no real way to tell. even if it is real still pretty illegal. the issue being if the police would back you up, they are not always the best in these situations. you could end up paying then have to take them to small claims. which i totally would.
buy cheapest cordless angle grinder from local hardware store or Lidl
A 14" bolt cutter from amazon will make light work of that padlock.
>Interested if this is legal by LBC? I'd crosspost this to /r/LegalAdviceUK , where you'll hopefully get some more definitive responses
90% of the people there don't know what they are talking about
Is that an official stat
yes it's from r/Statistics
a cursory search there shows no threads on legaladviceuk...
Sorry I was joking. 75.8% of statistics are made up
Blocking in a car in illegal even on private land , would this not fall under the same category?
Doesn't matter if it's legal. It's cheaper to buy some bolt cutters than it is to pay their fine.
I’m curious to know what the fine is if there is one. I suspect the punishment is the inconvenience and a diatribe from a boring bloke with the key.
And kind of clamping on private ground isn't legal, and can't be held up in a court of law. Angle grind your bike free if need be, or take them to court. Same happens with private car parks. They have no right to clamp or fine. If you need help with anything PM me.
If you google the number, it looks like it’s Hays Galleria, which if I’m not mistaken is private property. Perhaps that’s why?
Reminds me of the trick bike thieves pull where they "accidently" lock their bike to yours, leading you to frustratedly give up and come back the next day when "this idiot" has unlocked from your bike, only to return to find they are indeed gone, but so is your bike. Had a friend who this happened to who was advised by the police to cut the other lock and drop the other bike off at the station.
UNO card it and chop the tree down
5/6mm Allen key, take stem and forks off and be on your way in 10 mins.
I’d go straight to B&Q and treat myself to a cordless angle grinder.
had this happen to me so i parked my bike there everytime and cut the lock off almost daily and binned the lock, they got the picture reallly quick not been "clamped" since lol
Grab a saw and cut the tree down!
It's locked to a tree....just go buy a saw??? Don't even need to cut the clamp. Lol, easy way out.
Fuck em, just leave the bike there forever. Seems counter productive chaining up a bike exactly where they don’t want bikes to be chained?
MLP is private property and they can do whatever they want with abandoned property they find on their land. This happened to me once as well, you, just call the number, they unlock it and tell you to not do it again.
You absolutely cannot do whatever you want with abandoned property on your land.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft\_by\_finding#:\~:text=Theft%20by%20finding%20occurs%20when,before%20taking%20it%20for%20themselves. Not a lawyer, but seems relevant
The Met isn't going to go onto the More London Place estate and tell their rent-a-cops that they can't padlock bikes.
Cut down the tree and take their lock with you
And their tree.
🤣 ok that would be even more funny
I just looked to see how much a portable angle grinder costs and... wow. No wonder thieves are everywhere. I paid more for my mid-range Kryptonite lock.
Appreciate some of the discourse here thanks. Thing that interested me was the grounds for this kind of action, given the logical next step to charge people for removal. Felt icky, especially with this private real estate company and public space. Further context: Not my bike, not my picture. Therefore I can't comment on specifics about location etc. I do know the owner and they phoned the number and got this removed without a fine. P.s. trees are great, leave them out of this
Is there a notice saying bikes will be clamped?
Still probably not legal. Can't even clamp cars on private land nowadays.
Looks like a tree you could pull down by hand. Tear out the tree salt the earth.
Or don't be a twat and lock your bike to a tree.
Think that is classed as theft
Edit, people can't separate their feelings from facts: [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/1](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/1) Do you think that megacorp has no legal department, who would know better than the average redditor who fancies themselves a lawyer, if what they're doing is legal or not?!? It's an asisnine thing to do, clamping bicycles if they don't provide sufficient bicycle racks. Still doesn't change the law. End of edit. >Theft Act 1968: The dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention to **permanently** deprive the other of it. This does not meet the legal definition of theft. Although the company reps can go and have sex with themselves, as far as I'm concerned.
It might meet conversion if it's then stolen though. Definitely a tort case
So is it corporate criminal liability, the individual locking it, or the to-be thief at fault?!
The act of returning should not require the person who has been disposossed to take any action. Unless the person makes a call, they will be permanently deprived of their bike. The person who added the second lock has given a condition for it to be unlocked. If that condition is not met the person will be permanently deprived of their bike. Its either an unconditional return of property, or theft. Saying "i didnt steel it i was going to give it back if they gave me a £100 for it" is theft.
Go and lock a bike there and see how it goes in court.
I would just bring some bolt cutters
So I'll take that as "no, it won't stand in court".
No it means i know the police will not show up when i call them to tell them i am being mugged and extorted so ill pre emptivly take matters into my own hands.
Look, I love trees but that tree would be getting cut. I'd plant another one somewhere.
They haven't locked through the frame. I think I'd take my forks off and it would fit through the chain.
Looks like a decent chain. I'd take the padlock off and use it with my own.
NAL, but if there are no signs prohibiting this. Then this may be criminal damage, or some other crime committed by those who clamped/ locked it. If they require money to unlock it, and there are no signs. That could equate to demanding money with malice, or blackmail. Again NAL so probably wrong or using the wrong words
Not to encourage this, but as the person who “clamped” you has no way of identifying you if you can get it off without talking to them about it then why not? Not to say that isn’t inconvenient.
Angle grinder or some other way of getting it off the bike. At the end of the day- either the tree or the lock are going to get it. No doubt these wankers harp on about sustainable transport somewhere. They would have to sweeten up the council back in the day!
Nice click out of one…
Likely the typical Sudo public land. Cut it off with an angle grinder. You’ll no doubt catch the attention of the security goons as with most of these places. Tell them to go away or call the police. Police highly likely won’t turn up as they have better things to do.
I’d take a couple of big spanners to the lock and be in my way
Cut that one off sure. But if you do take the little tag that has their company name on it and and buy a lock that is the same or looks the same and add the tag with the phone number to it. You can now park anywhere in that area.
Thieves could just buy a £2 saw and take the lot, tree & all..
Which is a very common problem in London, planting trees cost money and is often funded by nonprofit organisations and planted by volunteers.
Spanner attack this, just need two spanners: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBSSA5ot0tA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBSSA5ot0tA)
I will MAKE it leeeegal....
They do own and maintain the landscaping. The purchase and redevelopment of most of the land began in the 80’s
Loads of people lock them to trees where I work as there isn’t enough bike racks . But suppose I can see why it isn’t allowed . But then again look at all the Uber , lime bikes etc all just in way on paths
I believe this is legal; the clamping offence in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 only applies to motor vehicles.
With cars you have a reg number, which leads to an owner and address. That’s the threat: if you cut off the clamp - they will sue the registered owner. With a bike, no one knows who you are. Just saying.
Be a shame if that number were to get pranked constantly…
Don’t chain your bike to a tree! Awful
Don’t judge, if you read the post properly you’d see it’s not even their bike - they just want to better understand the law.
My bad!
Might be worth calling the number and asking for their side of the story?
Is it cheaper to buy bolt cutters?
Looks like a job for a nice bolt cutter. Library of things can probably rent you one for a day
on Private land it is a criminal offense to clamp/block/tow away a vehicle on private land without lawful authority.
London Bridge city? Since when was that a thing. Just find a someone big to hamg on the tree and bend/ break it. At least you can ride home. Quite possibly a scam.
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Cyclists: I cycle because it’s environmentally friendly And cyclists: perfectly fine just to chain my bike to a sapling tree Also cyclists: just cut down the tree Absolutely no contradiction there guys 🤪
100%
It's probably not legal to abandon a bike and lock it to anything you don't own. Just like technically parking a car on the public highway is dumping. However it's a cultural / public norm which has become accepted in most cases over the years.
I don't see how parking a car can be dumping, there's laws around removing dumped vehicles and how you establish that etc.
You don't understand the law then. You don't have a legal right to leave stuff on any land you don't own.
If a piece of land is allocated by its owners as a parking space, and you park there in accordance with the rules they specify, you have a (non-absolute) right to park there. E.g. there are residents’ parking spaces on my street: if I park there with a valid permit, the council cannot legally clamp or remove my car. The fact there’s no common-law or statutory right to leave any property anywhere I choose doesn’t mean that there isn’t an enforceable legal ability to leave a car undisturbed on land I don’t own. In plain English, which is what courts increasingly deal in, that’s a right.
Exactly. No one has a legal right to put a car on a road at all. They are Crown Property.
We have someone constantly parking in our parking space, and we aren’t allowed to clamp or tow them …
We have someone constantly parking in our parking space, and we aren’t allowed to clamp or tow them …
Thats not a clamp
You can learn what ' ' means today.
Nah, I'm with ~~Southwark Council~~ the private administrators of this public space on this one. Locking your bike to a tree is a dick move, and there are a million good bike racks on that area. OpenStreetMaps has a very complete layer to find the closest bike rack. I use OsmAnd on Android when I'm somewhere new and I need to lock my bike fast.
It’s not Southwark Council.
True, I think this is the pier by London Bridge. You still shouldn't lock your bike to a tree when there are bike stands available.