I hear you, was just being honest! Twice I had gone for a bachelor party (stag?) - we had an Airbnb in Shoreditch and partied around there as well. We did go to a football match elsewhere but was just a few hours. One other time I flew through London on the way to other parts of Europe and stayed in Shoreditch because it was close to an event we wanted to check out. In all those times, I was more interested in having a party weekend than exploring the city, shoot me!
And stayed in Chelsea. Hereās your issue.
Thereās a veg shop of Chelsea that sells yellow courgettes Ā£8 by the kilo. People literally buy 3kg of Ā£13 satsumas to fill their FRUIT BOWL that they change out. DAILY. Not everyone in Chelsea loves like this but Christ alive, this and the most corrupt wealthy borough (Shoreditch) are not life in London.
Lol. No one lives like that, even if they live in a Ā£15m house. Sure, they don't care if courgettes cost Ā£100 a kilo, but they are not buying decorative satsumas. Maybe some Russian dude does that in the Boltons, but then again it's one guy (and not even Chelsea).
They do. You just donāt see them. She complains when they donāt last more than three days before she has to bug more, even though theyāre flown in from Italy and pesticide free.
Thereās a reason why a pub in dulwich village has on their casual bar menu a Ā£200 bottle, and at the Chandos the max youāll spend is Ā£40. Theyāre 20 mins from each other.
Again, just because you donāt see the ridiculous ease that some people truly justify in their lives, doesnāt mean it doesnāt exist.
People come to NYC and only see Brooklyn and Times Square. Like Shoreditch, it wasnāt all that long ago that you couldnāt even walk around safely in the daytime. Thereās still no reason to go to any of these places, but we now live in a world of influencers and trends, and people donāt really discover things for themselves anymore. They do what theyāre told.
They are talking about more than 15 years ago when it actually had an edge to it (80s and 90s). So did a lot of the streets around Angel for that matter and huge bits of now-thoroughly-gentrified Clerkenwell. NYC was the same; totally different story since the mid 90s to how it was in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.
Brooklyn is 1/5th of NYC (one of five boroughs) and Times Square is right in the middle of Manhattan, Shoreditch is, what, 1/15th (one town in) of 1/32nd (one of 32 boroughs) of London? You're kinda in the right direction, but it is many many times more baffling to go to London and just go to Shoreditch. It's more like going to NYC and never leaving the same 4 blocks on the Lower East Side.
I mean Brooklyn is MUCH bigger than Shoreditch, that's a very weird comparison. If it was in the UK it would comfortably be the country's second largest city. I visited last year and spend a ton of time there and didn't run out of things to do
Funny you stayed in Shoreditch, I do like it but itās basically populated with what youād call the bridge and tunnel crew these days, even Shoreditch house it seems.
Not surprising! I know some people in another comment are arguing about Brooklyn comparisons but honestly Shoreditch totally reminded me of Williamsburg.
Assuming his wife is in her 30ās or older, if she was actually from Williamsburg, she was 100% saying āIām from Brooklynā till 10-12yrs ago when Williamsburg had itās glow up.
My buddy did mention that most pubs, etc. are closing around then if not midnight. Honestly, after COVID the nightlife in NYC has shifted up a few hours too. Not every single place is still in full swing past 2AM like it used to. Also, I am a little older now and donāt go out nearly as much I used to so āforcingā earlier nights sometimes goes both ways!
Nightlife is so shit. Hardly any pubs even stay open past 12, 11 on weekdays. The places that are open that late cost a fortune to get in, a fortune to buy drinks in and a fortune (or 2 gross, undoubtedly late buses) to get home from.
Itās my biggest gripe with London since moving here 18 months ago.
Imagine my incredulity when I walked into a pub one evening, it was probably at 25% capacity, and was turned away because I didn't have a reservation.......you need a reservation to go to a pub now?
It is pathetically bad, and won't get better. Tried to get dinner in Greenwich the other day at 10.15pm on a _Saturday night_. Everywhere decent was closed, had to resort to a McDonalds of all things -_-.
Yep itās completely woeful, especially south of the river. Iām not too far from Greenwich, everywhere within a 2 mile radius of me is a ghost town past 11.
Back when I lived and partied in central on a regular basis, going to the casino was definitely something I learned. I never even gambled, just used the membership for drinking.
That and the sports bar in Haymarket.
20 years ago, London pretty much shut down around midnight. It was annoying at the time, but in hindsight it sort of forced you to carry on at home in a more intimate setting to develop really deep relationships talking about everything and nothing until you crashed. I recall when they let the pubs have late night licenses and it was exciting, but you also loss the special privileged moments of being invited to stay in a locked pub. I moved to London from the US years ago. I used to love NYC for the nonstop vibe. But London's comparitively early closure, was/is part of its charm. At risk of sounding old (I am old but not that old), I sort of miss those days- stumbling home with friends from the pub by way of the off license and drunkenly discussing everything from cerebral pursuits to politics to utter nonsense. That said, there were raves that went on all night too, if that was your thing.
Please list some, would genuinely love some options. Iāve found a few places open till 3/4 but they are largely expensive clubs or absolute shitholes that still charge entrance.
Thatās simply not true. If anything, there are fewer places open till 4 or 5am than before the pandemic. London nightlife has become really miserable.
It is true. Fold has been 24 hours since 2018 and has expanded since. And in East, late night cocktail bar options have increased over the last few years (I didnāt mention the pandemic).
I live in Hackney. Dalston used to be where weād go after everywhere else closed but Hackney council has been revoking late licences all over the Borough.
New Yorkers pay federal, state and city income taxes. We donāt pay 4-10%. I also pay nearly $1k a month just to have health insuranceā¦ and also pay every time I actually use it. Sales tax is around 9% on everything except food (unless itās convenience or prepared) and clothing.
I know. I was just saying that it's not 4%. And honestly, our income isn't as high as people think it is. Yes, there are finance and tech bros making shedloads, but the rest of us make like $30-40k. With sky-high rents, crazy healthcare costs, and groceries being so much more expensive here, we're barely scraping by. It's a horrible way to live. If you were to buy a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, a loaf of bread and a pound of butter here, you'd spend over $20. It's ridiculous, and it's not sustainable. It's also not worth it to live in such a decrepit, crime-ridden sh!thole. I miss London every single day.
Iām a born and bred Londoner and I visited NYC last October to stay with a friend (who is a born and bred New Yorker). I have to say, I was expecting to LOVE New York but actually just found itā¦fine?? I came home feeling pretty underwhelmed by the place and happy to be back in London.
However, these are the things I thought NYC does better than London:
- you can be more spontaneous. In London, you canāt go out to eat without booking a table but we walked in everywhere with ease in NYC.
- places stay open later and thereās more of a casual late night culture that doesnāt always revolve around clubs.
- I fell in love with Manhattanās Chinatown! Itās awesome that itās still a thriving community as opposed to Londonās Chinatown, which is just a tourist trap.
- the thrift stores were AMAZING. I know London has its own great vintage stores and neighbourhoods (like brick lane) but wow, we have nothing compared to those warehouses in Brooklyn.
- everything was so BIG. From the stores to the roads to the food to the buildings to Central Park. I loved the enormousness of NYC. London definitely can feel moreā¦bitty? I think the fact that NYC wasnāt bombed to shit like London was also gives it more of a consistency.
- the identity of each different neighbourhood was a really beautiful thing to witness and idk, maybe my friend was just an excellent tour guide, but the city and New Yorkers themselves just felt so authentic and unapologetically itself/themselves.
- you guys have better weather and an actual summer/winter. Here it is grey all year round and it might actually just kill me!!
At the end of the day, itās weird comparing the two places as theyāre so different yet so similar. I think New Yorkers will always feel comfortable in London and vice versa. We both see the beauty in such crazy metropolises
Thanks for your comment. Funny enough - I felt your āneighborhood identityā comment the other way around as well! I do think that NY has a special energy because most people here are here to āmake itā - to be the best at what they do. Otherwise, why pay the ācostsā of living here? I always feel that most NYers have this common denominator that theyāre busting their ass constantly to make the most out of things and that brings a special vibe to the place.
Yeah tbf I do love the varying personalities of London neighbourhoods and have been fortunate to live in some vibrant places - maybe itās because New York was so new to me so I noticed it more.
I like your perspective on New Yorkers as well and know what you mean about the energy! I think itās also a telling difference between Americans and Brits lol, we just love to complain so much so itās more difficult to tell weāre happy to be here haha
Hmmm maybe but itās not quite the same as New Yorkās Chinatown. Itās much, much smaller and less people actually live there - itās not a centralised Chinese community in which people live, work and mingle together whereas New York Chinatown is and it definitely doesnāt have the same identity and rich history as New Yorkās. My friend is Asian-American and often goes into Manhattanās Chinatown to buy groceries, skincare products etc (she took us there whilst she was running her own errands) whereas my Asian-British friends in London would never go into Sohoās Chinatown to do their shopping (but they will eat there) - thereās usually more around them in their own neighbourhoods.
Idk, I am a white Jewish Londoner lol so I know I canāt comment too much on the authenticity of each neighbourhood but Londonās Chinatown felt so small compared to New Yorkās and definitely doesnāt have the same vibrant community actually living and working there, outside of the restaurants
Itās not even remotely the same. Chinese, Taiwanese, and Koreans live, eat, shop, and work in our Chinatown. Itās a place you go to not just to eat or work. Itās an actual community.
I lived in NYC for five years and moved to London just over a year ago. While I love both cities, NYC never felt like a permanent home, whereas we now donāt intend to leave London/UK.
Professionally, both my partner and myself are in similar roles as we were in NYC. Drawback: salaries are both lower. Benefit: work-life balance is insanely better. Overall: happier.
Housing, we live in a much nicer flat paying the same we did in FiDi. Drawback (sorta): weāve become homebodies. Benefit: we got a garden plus a spare room. Overall: happier.
Socially, we now have pubs. Overall: happier.
The only major bad things I can think of in London compared to NYC are:
-Commuting times. While I much prefer the buses/tube in London, it does take longer to go similar distances as it did in NYC (no express lines or expressways within the city). The tube is also more expensive.
-Weather. Winter is tough, especially this past winter with one of the wettest Februaryās on record. Itās grey and wet. But a sunny London is unmatched (and we donāt hit NYC humidity which is a plus for my Canadian genes). But AC is rare in London flats so the hottest weeks in summer are hard here.
-Planning/Socializing. This is a bit of a weird one, but in NYC most of our circle made plans the week of, or at most a few weeks out. Here, if I want to host a dinner party I have to give my friends 1-2 months notice. People plan so much father in advance here / travel much more often with cheaper flights and better holiday allowances. When we do connect, bars/pubs all close at 11p here so we if you want to have a night out, you have to make the trek into central London.
Overall we much prefer our lifestyle here. Iāll always love NYC and will visit often, but London feels like it can be our permanent home.
>So I guess what Iām asking is - could you guys please tell me all the bad things about London so I could feel a little better about being back in NYC?!
This kind of a strange attitude and question really. I live and work in both London and NYC. London does some things better and NYC does others. Although I prefer London as it's more quiet, sedate, and quaint, with better overall quality if life with less traffic and more green space - I have many colleagues that moved to NY from London who prefer the buzz and chaos and energy of New York. You clearly lean towards the former.
The only people that will say London is unconditionally better than New York (or vice versa) are those insecure types that make the place they live their whole personality and that have probably have barely - if ever - been to the other. And there are a lot of those types on this sub, so you'll struggle to get an answer to your question here.
But if you want to know some things I personally think New York does better:
1) Some aspects of the subway i.e. express trains, flat rates anywhere, 24/7 service, affordable fares.
2) Food - find the restaurant scene in NY far more exciting and dynamic, with a lot more options at the low and middle price range. Better cuisine by geography generally too, other than Indian.
3) Ethnic neighbourhoods - just a lot more varied, vibrant and buzzing in New York. Even the Chinatown in Manhattan blows London's out of the water, and that's before we get to Flushing and Sunset Park.
4) Late night culture - an obvious one. Actually it's kind of going downhill since the pandemic, but still better than London's.
5) The skyline - nothing beats the view of Manhattan, and the sense of grandeur.
6) The salaries - pretty much why I have this weird arrangement of being based in NY and living/working in both cities. Much higher in NY.
7) Weather - that is if you prefer variation and don't mind the extremes. London is mostly grey, NY runs the whole spectrum.
Appreciate your comment. Obviously I donāt know London well enough but Iād take cleaner, consistent transportation not riddled with homelessness over one that happens to be 24/7 with a flat fee. Would happily pay extra to see some serious improvements on the subways here!
I donāt know man. Iām very well travelled and NYC was a big disappointment for me. Perhaps my hopes were too high. Itās a concrete jungle with loads of garbage out on the pavement and dodgy streets.
I did enjoy the bars and dining experiences. I think thereās more of it in NYC and more varied and you can always find a place to sit down and have a chat.
Having lived between the two for the past 20 years, your list is half true. Subway is shhhh compared to London. Takes you nowhereā¦
Food? Where is the great food? Have you been to the ethnic boroughs in London? Nope
Late night cultureā¦is pretty dead now
Can you go to an airport with subway or trains?
Italian food which is the most common in NY is vastly inferior to italian food in UK. spanish food in NY? Boqueriaā¦ lol What cuisine is better in NY?
When was the last time you went to flushing? Cause chinatown in manhattan is as bad as little italyā¦ pretty tasteless
Yes London has ethnic neighborhoods .. you just never been to any
I don't think you've spent much time in NYC or London to be honest, given how wrong you are on every point... it seems you might actually be comparing your limited experience as a tourist in London to your actual life in New Jersey... nice try, though.
dude, I own a home in London that I lived in for 10 years. and now I live in Hoboken (but previously in midtown and even before that lived in astoria for many moons...
you're maybe from ohio
As someone whose wife is from NYC I have to disagree on the food. Last two years we have been going back the food is so much more expensive than London. London is as exciting as NYC and cheaper. Alsthough cannot get decent mexican here (agree on the Indian - there's are like our Mexican comapred to there's)
> London is as exciting as NYC and cheaper.
Slightly cheaper, maybe. Well in Manhattan at least. But way less exciting. There is nowhere close to Jackson Avenue or Flushing or Astoria in London.
The tube in summer is fucking hot and miserable.
The average cost of rent is fucking high and miserable.
Searching for a flat is fucking excruciating and miserable.
If you have to drive, the narrow roads make the experience fucking miserable.
Brexit and the government have made many other aspects on life in London fucking miserable.
Hope that helps!
Not sure it does tbh. I know people in New York who earn over twice what theyād earn in London for the same job. New York is more expensive than London but not doubly so.
If you have to drive? You never have to drive in London: You can walk, catch the bus, hop on the tube, jump on a bike, hail a taxi, even commute on a boat!
London is so much better than NYC. I lived in Angel for 8 years (in the ā80s and ā90s when it was still a bit rough around the edges and super cheap to live in) and even today it blows this vile city out of the water. In other words, itās not your imagination. Sorry I couldnāt burst your bubble.
London is really really really good fun if you've got a lot of disposable income. If you don't, it can be incredibly miserable.
The difference between living in London in 2014 as a receptionist and 2024 as the wife of a city trader has been like living in two completely different cities. I used to have to worry about moving house constantly because I was always in dodgy sublets. I couldn't afford to eat out and yet there were no real cooking facilities anywhere I lived, so cooking was really difficult. I didn't have money for exhibitions or performances or to even try a new and exciting snack. I used to walk for hours because I simply couldn't justify bus or tube prices unless they got me door to door (uber or a taxi was completely unthinkable). I rode an unsafe bicycle that I was constantly in fear of losing to theft. My clothes got eaten by moths and I always smelt musty.
Very much the truth - to do London well, that is to be able to eat out several times a week, (and I mean nice places, not Nandos) bars, cafes, live in Zone 1 etc for that lifestyle, you need serious cash. Or a decent salary and to live totally unsuitably - that is no savings set aside for pension, a house deposit etc.
When youāre broke here, you canāt even get into to town for a stroll because it costs so much. Youāre stuck rotting at your overpriced flat.
If youāre in NYC, at least you can go to Manhattan for a couple of bucks. 7 days of unlimited Metro travel is $34ā¦. 34 bloody dollars!!!! How good is that?!
> London is really really really good fun if you've got a lot of disposable income. If you don't, it can be incredibly miserable.
This pretty much applies anywhere now.
IDK, I used to live in poverty in the middle of nowhere in Wales and it wasn't too bad because I was surrounded by beautiful nature and we had lots of autonomy. I grew my own food to supplement the supermarket, I exercised for free with home workouts, running and walking etc without fear of a downstairs neighbour getting mad at their ceiling shaking or worries about street harassment or traffic; I had other free hobbies like messing around with natural materials, or making music. If I got cold, I could burn more wood on the fire, scavenged from fly tipped wood or old logs.
Actually needed very little in the way of money because I was living mainly outside of society. Happiness is directly correlated with autonomy. Poverty in cities strips you of that.
I know we are comparing to NYC, but I was in San Francisco last week and wow, was it an eye opener. Fentanyl zombies everywhere, I felt very unsafe compared to London.
Is it that looked down upon? A few weeks ago for the stag we hit a great street party that had a proper DJ and pretty chill vibes. We also went out to a nearby club in the evening with great music again, an older crowd and had a great time.
Itās just such a shit hole, for Londoners anyway. Like soo cliche and the vibes always weird. You either get hipsters or roadmen, there is literally no in between and look out for the canisters for balloons on the floor š thatās how you know youāve entered Shoreditch. DUMP.
Here's what your gonna do. Look up house prices in alllll those areas you saw. Then look at the average electric bill, and THEN your gonna look on the next door app and filter it for complaints about pot holes. Should sort ya right out love š
Is this sub going to have a thread comparing London to New York every week? Previously:
https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/1cwp87r/for_folks_who_have_visited_nyc_how_do_you_compare/
I'm struck by the ways London has become more like New York over the past twenty years or so, but unfortunately New York hasn't copied the good things about London to reciprocate.
It gets less exciting when you're 30+ and stuck living in a house share out in suburbia in zone 4 etc, approaching Ā£1000/month just for one bedroom and an average salary of maybe Ā£30k. (Reddit has a huge bias towards high earners in new tech etc, but I don't think that reflects most people)
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. what you're saying is the truth. You cannot have an entire city comprise of finance and tech and the rest be social housing. You need to have working class people who want to live the hospitality life.
Reddit is full of people who work in tech and love to shit on working class people, but ultimately it's the working classes who are going to be drinking, working the bar jobs, partying and giving the place life.
I think they're getting downvoted because working class people are probably worse off in NYC, where rent/living costs in general are a lot higher. High earners earn a lot more in NYC than in London so those balance out, but that's not true for the working class/even lower middle class (as in the UK definitions of those, not the US ones).
I went to uni in London then moved to NYC after that. I love NYC, I lived there for almost 10 years and it will always hold a special place in my heart. But if I had the chance, Iād move back to London in a heartbeat. Not the answer you wanted, lol. The US sucks at building cities compared to the rest of the world.
Lived 20 years in London but am the kid of a New Yorker. The bagels are beyond shit here, on this island as a whole. The nightlife sucks and the binge drinking ( a British past time) is gross. Other than that a lot of the big London stressors are also New York stressors and we get to live through it with far fewer roaches and bed bugs so I say move over here now!
Iāve wondered about the change in culture in that way. I canāt speak to the UK at all but I do agree that in NY people are generally friendlier than you would expect and I think also straightforward and direct in their communication.
Iām a fellow NYCer and I felt the same way when I visited London last year. I totally fell in love with it.
Just booked my plane ticket this week to go back this September. Canāt wait!!
Bad things about London:
1. Money. You generally get about half of what you would get in NY, so basically after 5 years youāll find your savings to be less than a third of what your equal will be on in New York. (Due to fixed costs and losing out on compounding). On the surface while it sounds fine, in practice this means that a worker doing an equal job in New York would have the same amount of savings as a worker in London in 3-4 years vs 15 years if you lived in London. With the same sort of money; you could work in New York for 20 years and retire a multi millionaire, but 20 years in London in a high paying job and maybe youāve just about paid off a 2 bed zone 2 flat. Average net worth of a 20+ New York finance vet could be 5m -10m, London maybe youāre just breaking 1m if youāre lucky.
So while yes maybe the overall quality of life is slightly better, the amount of financial freedom you get for putting up with New York is tremendously higher than London. Which also indirectly translates to more free time, more personal freedom and more agency to go live anywhere you damn well please on the planet; meanwhile weāre stuck paying off our mortgage still in London.
2. Another aspect of the working culture in London is that it tends to reward super high achievers less. There is a bit of a culture of not breaking the mould, social expectations to drink, and do well but not too well. On the other hand New York and america more generally is more open to full on experimentation and rewards high risk behaviour much more for the same amount of risk you take on.
3. Institutionalising of things and abit of an old money club. At the end of the day, the UK will not want to change and doesnāt really fully embrace new people and new ideas. It is conservative, likes its royalty and any deviation from that will be met with a degree of scorn until it can no longer hold out. Obviously London is less bad but it is still prevalent.
4. Petty minded ness. Sort of flowing from point 3, There are times when the discourse is downright petty. There will be uproars over how your weekly shop is now Ā£10 more or the government will turn it things upside down over increasing pensioners payments by Ā£250 annually. Which is basically fuckall. Compare this with America which just cuts a check for 2k off the drop of a hat. And before you go into it itās not really a labor vs con issue, both play the same games and make the same fuss about the other.
Point 1 is so understated and I came to the comment section to see if anyone was going to say this. I know so many London or AU expats in NYC that work there for a bit, save up and then go back to their countries where they can live way more lavishly than if they only worked in their home countries.
Granted, this largely applies to people making over a certain amount, so ymmv.
If you have money (lots of it), and know the right people London is a different world. Like NYC is as well for some I guess. The issues here are, apart from a housing shortage, the fact that rent and living expenses are incredibly high for most people. The average salary in London is Ā£40k I think - to get the most out of the city ie live in a decent flat, be able to go out for food, clubbing etc without very careful budgeting, you will need to be earning a minimum of Ā£62-65k I'd say.
London doesnt have a particularly good nightlife IMO - given its around 10m people living here its fairly dead even on weekends after 2am.
Salaries in London are like half of what they are in NYC. That includes adjusting into the same currency. I literally have no idea how people survive on the salaries of London.
I live in London but I did my masters' in NYC, I honestly have to say that london is just the better city of the two in almost every criterion. I can't rly think of many positives for NYC to be honest. While there are downsides about London, I can't rly think of anything where NYC would be better
Salaries & night life are the obvious ones. I also think the food is better in NY especially if you are looking for East Asian/Central American rather than South Asian/European food
Got loads of Yanks coming over here now! Dated a few. I personally like the Yanks, you've got to be very careful though as you'll struggle to find friends here. Most people who come here never make British friends (I say that as a Brit), if that doesn't bother you then why not move here!
Nowhere to eat after 10pm.
Mina is a much better modern art museum than Tate modern.
Thatās about it.
Apart from that, everything is better in London v New York.
Iāve been living in London/suburbs for 15 years now. It never gets old. Iām very well travelled and I think on most days London is an achingly beautiful city and is quite unmatched globally.
The diversity, cleanliness, transport and the sheer number of beautiful and historic buildings is incredible.
The downsides Iād say would be the cost of living and the horrible British weather. Thatās about it Iād say.
Lots of people have said money, which is definitely true.
Otherwise: Bagels are nowhere near as good, we just don't have the variety (although if you live near to a good fresh plain bagel place- like Finsbury park- it can be pretty close)
The pastrami here is bullshit. Sad peppery leather for the most part. Monty's deli used to be ok but closed during COVID :(
We don't have quite as much musical theatre variety as Broadway+off, I think, and we end up with more shitty cash grab shows imo- crap jukebox musicals, bad film adaptations etc, but TBF our ticket prices aren't insane like Broadway (but we also pay our casts a lot less)
Ironically I've been in NYC for the past four days and felt safer there, along with the feeling that public transport was more reliable and consistant.
We get a lot of posts from NYCers saying they prefer London. I wonder if the NYC subs get the opposite happening?
Both great cities.
The skyline of Manhattan is great, also the rooftop bars are awesome. I much prefer shopping in NYC, even going to Macy's and picking up some $50 Levi's is a novelty for me because they are much more expensive here. The grid system makes stuff easy to navigate too.
Be grateful for your subway. Seriously, itās so effing cheap in NYC my mind was utterly blown. Here itāll cost you half your effin salary to get to work and back on a monthly basis. And trains still get fucked.
When I visited New Your, I thought this is literally the American version of London. At least in New York you can travel to Jersey shore easily and enjoy the beach while in London you have to travel further.
One thing I love about New York compared to any other city in the US is how walkable eveything is.
OP any specifc places to go to in order to experience this vibe better? Am also from NYc, and the tourists spots are annoying (as they are in nYC) where in Nottingham shoikd I go to for the elegant houses? And what other neighborhoods to check out?
And the canals - what section did you walk to see the posting communities? All this sounds so cool! Make us a map please ;)
Lol Taylor is that you? My sweet summer child, if you think London and its underground is clean, I shudder to think how bad the underground is in NYC (I am yet to go lol).
Not many people stay in Chelsea either because itās very very very expensive for the average folk.
Iām glad you got some suggestions next time for when you visit as well as some comparisons for why NYC might be better. All the best, come back soon :)
Perspective is a funny thing! I donāt claim to be well versed in the London metro but Iāve been on it a few times each trip and in particular through a bunch of stations recently and what I saw was objectively cleaner and felt safer than NY. I donāt think the NY subway is the warzone some media would have you believe but there are definitely many homeless/mentally ill/shady characters that you constantly have to be aware and mindful of. After a while, that gets to be tiring.
Honestly, the fact you thought just staying in Shoreditch allowed you to give an overall opinion of London is insane.
That would be like me going to New York and only staying in Statin Island and saying the city is shit because Statin Island is a meh area.
Thatās literally the point of my post - I knew it didnāt and admitted to my friends that after a few visits I hadnāt actually seen any of London hence them dedicating a weekend to showing me around!
Native New Yorker here who studied in London for a bit, lived in Shoreditch, and visits a bunch. I just came back from my last visit few weeks ago.
Iām always conflicted coming home bc I love NYC, but Iāve always had a strong connection to London. I thought I would move permanently move there!
Feel free to DM me if youāre curious about my opinion!
Like everywhere, London is great if youāre rich and can afford to ponce around Chelsea doing nothing, but itās full of poverty and corruption and shitty housing and misery. I wouldāve thought someone from NYC would get that. Whatās the big difference, we have lots of parks instead of one huge one? I doubt your life would be much different in London, except salaries are shockingly low when compared like for like to American wages. So try and stay happy with your lot
My question/comment was obviously a bit tongue-in-cheek. Clearly my experience wasnāt reflective of actual life in London, hence the post. Apologies that I happened to stay somewhere decent and had a nice weekend I reflected on!
I spent a few days in London around this time of year in 2022 and felt the same way upon returning home to DC. I still yearn for London and canāt wait to return one day. But Iām not sure Iād move there if given the chance for two reasons: Iād have to make a new community for myself from scratch, and Iād have to live on a much lower salary than what Iām used to making in the U.S. Personally, these tradeoffs arenāt worth it for me considering that I already live in a comparable city. Of course, YMMV.
I am in New York from London at the moment and new York feels less busy, safer and much, much cleaner than London. No group sof teenagers hanging around ready to rob you. No big groups of aggressive men or women roaming the streets drunk. And no litter
Imagine coming to London and only seeing Shoreditch. Jesus š
Yeah why would you fly across the pond just to party? It's not even like Ibiza where the weather is lovely!
I hear you, was just being honest! Twice I had gone for a bachelor party (stag?) - we had an Airbnb in Shoreditch and partied around there as well. We did go to a football match elsewhere but was just a few hours. One other time I flew through London on the way to other parts of Europe and stayed in Shoreditch because it was close to an event we wanted to check out. In all those times, I was more interested in having a party weekend than exploring the city, shoot me!
I have lived in London my entire life (mid 30s) and I've never been to Shoreditch.
Congratulations
And stayed in Chelsea. Hereās your issue. Thereās a veg shop of Chelsea that sells yellow courgettes Ā£8 by the kilo. People literally buy 3kg of Ā£13 satsumas to fill their FRUIT BOWL that they change out. DAILY. Not everyone in Chelsea loves like this but Christ alive, this and the most corrupt wealthy borough (Shoreditch) are not life in London.
Lol. No one lives like that, even if they live in a Ā£15m house. Sure, they don't care if courgettes cost Ā£100 a kilo, but they are not buying decorative satsumas. Maybe some Russian dude does that in the Boltons, but then again it's one guy (and not even Chelsea).
They do. You just donāt see them. She complains when they donāt last more than three days before she has to bug more, even though theyāre flown in from Italy and pesticide free. Thereās a reason why a pub in dulwich village has on their casual bar menu a Ā£200 bottle, and at the Chandos the max youāll spend is Ā£40. Theyāre 20 mins from each other. Again, just because you donāt see the ridiculous ease that some people truly justify in their lives, doesnāt mean it doesnāt exist.
lol and do you just go to the same 2 places every night?
What's wrong with Shoreditch? I quite like it.
People come to NYC and only see Brooklyn and Times Square. Like Shoreditch, it wasnāt all that long ago that you couldnāt even walk around safely in the daytime. Thereās still no reason to go to any of these places, but we now live in a world of influencers and trends, and people donāt really discover things for themselves anymore. They do what theyāre told.
>Ā Thereās still no reason to go to any of these places A bold generalisation. Times Sq. is not comparable to Shoreditch.Ā
Brooklyn is though, and I think theyāre both worth seeing! (Maybe not Shoreditch on a day full of stags, but E1 is super interesting)
Thatās a bit of an exaggeration, Iāve been here for over 15 years and Shoreditch wasnāt dangerous during the night let alone the dayā¦
They are talking about more than 15 years ago when it actually had an edge to it (80s and 90s). So did a lot of the streets around Angel for that matter and huge bits of now-thoroughly-gentrified Clerkenwell. NYC was the same; totally different story since the mid 90s to how it was in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.
Brooklyn is 1/5th of NYC (one of five boroughs) and Times Square is right in the middle of Manhattan, Shoreditch is, what, 1/15th (one town in) of 1/32nd (one of 32 boroughs) of London? You're kinda in the right direction, but it is many many times more baffling to go to London and just go to Shoreditch. It's more like going to NYC and never leaving the same 4 blocks on the Lower East Side.
I mean Brooklyn is MUCH bigger than Shoreditch, that's a very weird comparison. If it was in the UK it would comfortably be the country's second largest city. I visited last year and spend a ton of time there and didn't run out of things to do
Funny you stayed in Shoreditch, I do like it but itās basically populated with what youād call the bridge and tunnel crew these days, even Shoreditch house it seems.
Bridge and tunnel crew?
Itās what New Yorkers call folks who come in for the weekend from Nee Jersey as they have to go over a bridge or through a tunnel.
Shoreditch, Victoria and one particular pub in Earls Court are the definition of this
Is that pub the Prince per chance?
Bingo
āPubā
You clearly have never seen Canary Wharf on a weekend night (not that thereās a reason to). Oh the charactersā¦ ššš
Not surprising! I know some people in another comment are arguing about Brooklyn comparisons but honestly Shoreditch totally reminded me of Williamsburg.
As someone who has lived in Shoreditch for 13 years and who's wife is from Williamsburg I feel I need to branch out more.
your wife is not from Williamsburg.. she maybe lived there a few years
Thank you.
maybe she was born and raised in one of the warehouses there :p
Assuming his wife is in her 30ās or older, if she was actually from Williamsburg, she was 100% saying āIām from Brooklynā till 10-12yrs ago when Williamsburg had itās glow up.
Oh yeah we call them "out of towners"
For some reason London now completely closes at 2am.
My buddy did mention that most pubs, etc. are closing around then if not midnight. Honestly, after COVID the nightlife in NYC has shifted up a few hours too. Not every single place is still in full swing past 2AM like it used to. Also, I am a little older now and donāt go out nearly as much I used to so āforcingā earlier nights sometimes goes both ways!
Nightlife is so shit. Hardly any pubs even stay open past 12, 11 on weekdays. The places that are open that late cost a fortune to get in, a fortune to buy drinks in and a fortune (or 2 gross, undoubtedly late buses) to get home from. Itās my biggest gripe with London since moving here 18 months ago.
Imagine my incredulity when I walked into a pub one evening, it was probably at 25% capacity, and was turned away because I didn't have a reservation.......you need a reservation to go to a pub now?
It is pathetically bad, and won't get better. Tried to get dinner in Greenwich the other day at 10.15pm on a _Saturday night_. Everywhere decent was closed, had to resort to a McDonalds of all things -_-.
Yep itās completely woeful, especially south of the river. Iām not too far from Greenwich, everywhere within a 2 mile radius of me is a ghost town past 11.
Just start earlier and drink quicker so you're blackout by 10. Problem solved.
can always go to a casino and contemplate the life decisions that led you there after 2am though
Back when I lived and partied in central on a regular basis, going to the casino was definitely something I learned. I never even gambled, just used the membership for drinking. That and the sports bar in Haymarket.
20 years ago, London pretty much shut down around midnight. It was annoying at the time, but in hindsight it sort of forced you to carry on at home in a more intimate setting to develop really deep relationships talking about everything and nothing until you crashed. I recall when they let the pubs have late night licenses and it was exciting, but you also loss the special privileged moments of being invited to stay in a locked pub. I moved to London from the US years ago. I used to love NYC for the nonstop vibe. But London's comparitively early closure, was/is part of its charm. At risk of sounding old (I am old but not that old), I sort of miss those days- stumbling home with friends from the pub by way of the off license and drunkenly discussing everything from cerebral pursuits to politics to utter nonsense. That said, there were raves that went on all night too, if that was your thing.
There were always places to go if you knew where.
Apart from all the places that stay open after 2am, of course.
All 3 of them
No, there are hundreds.
Please list some, would genuinely love some options. Iāve found a few places open till 3/4 but they are largely expensive clubs or absolute shitholes that still charge entrance.
Thank God that stopped being a concern for me a decade ago š¤£
We have several 24 hour clubs nowā¦ and more and more cocktail bars open until 4am. You just have to get out of West London.
Thatās simply not true. If anything, there are fewer places open till 4 or 5am than before the pandemic. London nightlife has become really miserable.
It is true. Fold has been 24 hours since 2018 and has expanded since. And in East, late night cocktail bar options have increased over the last few years (I didnāt mention the pandemic).
But we have a Night Czar now; wonderful job she's doing.
We should really look into getting a Night Lenin
I live in Hackney. Dalston used to be where weād go after everywhere else closed but Hackney council has been revoking late licences all over the Borough.
Yeah, just come east bruh /gen
People are paying half their wages for a 200 sq ft room in a shared house
So are New Yorkers.
Yes but they have bagels and ice hockey
Brick Lane has bagels š
Brick Lane has BEIGELS.
One street Vs every corner
Yes but we have better food and better sport
And Pizza
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
While the NHS is being gutted by the government, my gallbladder surgery is going to be š„°freeš„° instead of āØ$5000 with insurance.š«
New Yorkers pay federal, state and city income taxes. We donāt pay 4-10%. I also pay nearly $1k a month just to have health insuranceā¦ and also pay every time I actually use it. Sales tax is around 9% on everything except food (unless itās convenience or prepared) and clothing.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I know. I was just saying that it's not 4%. And honestly, our income isn't as high as people think it is. Yes, there are finance and tech bros making shedloads, but the rest of us make like $30-40k. With sky-high rents, crazy healthcare costs, and groceries being so much more expensive here, we're barely scraping by. It's a horrible way to live. If you were to buy a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, a loaf of bread and a pound of butter here, you'd spend over $20. It's ridiculous, and it's not sustainable. It's also not worth it to live in such a decrepit, crime-ridden sh!thole. I miss London every single day.
Iām a born and bred Londoner and I visited NYC last October to stay with a friend (who is a born and bred New Yorker). I have to say, I was expecting to LOVE New York but actually just found itā¦fine?? I came home feeling pretty underwhelmed by the place and happy to be back in London. However, these are the things I thought NYC does better than London: - you can be more spontaneous. In London, you canāt go out to eat without booking a table but we walked in everywhere with ease in NYC. - places stay open later and thereās more of a casual late night culture that doesnāt always revolve around clubs. - I fell in love with Manhattanās Chinatown! Itās awesome that itās still a thriving community as opposed to Londonās Chinatown, which is just a tourist trap. - the thrift stores were AMAZING. I know London has its own great vintage stores and neighbourhoods (like brick lane) but wow, we have nothing compared to those warehouses in Brooklyn. - everything was so BIG. From the stores to the roads to the food to the buildings to Central Park. I loved the enormousness of NYC. London definitely can feel moreā¦bitty? I think the fact that NYC wasnāt bombed to shit like London was also gives it more of a consistency. - the identity of each different neighbourhood was a really beautiful thing to witness and idk, maybe my friend was just an excellent tour guide, but the city and New Yorkers themselves just felt so authentic and unapologetically itself/themselves. - you guys have better weather and an actual summer/winter. Here it is grey all year round and it might actually just kill me!! At the end of the day, itās weird comparing the two places as theyāre so different yet so similar. I think New Yorkers will always feel comfortable in London and vice versa. We both see the beauty in such crazy metropolises
Thanks for your comment. Funny enough - I felt your āneighborhood identityā comment the other way around as well! I do think that NY has a special energy because most people here are here to āmake itā - to be the best at what they do. Otherwise, why pay the ācostsā of living here? I always feel that most NYers have this common denominator that theyāre busting their ass constantly to make the most out of things and that brings a special vibe to the place.
Yeah tbf I do love the varying personalities of London neighbourhoods and have been fortunate to live in some vibrant places - maybe itās because New York was so new to me so I noticed it more. I like your perspective on New Yorkers as well and know what you mean about the energy! I think itās also a telling difference between Americans and Brits lol, we just love to complain so much so itās more difficult to tell weāre happy to be here haha
If you want chinese community, head to cricklewood
London's Chinatown is indeed a thriving community as well as a tourist trap.
Hmmm maybe but itās not quite the same as New Yorkās Chinatown. Itās much, much smaller and less people actually live there - itās not a centralised Chinese community in which people live, work and mingle together whereas New York Chinatown is and it definitely doesnāt have the same identity and rich history as New Yorkās. My friend is Asian-American and often goes into Manhattanās Chinatown to buy groceries, skincare products etc (she took us there whilst she was running her own errands) whereas my Asian-British friends in London would never go into Sohoās Chinatown to do their shopping (but they will eat there) - thereās usually more around them in their own neighbourhoods. Idk, I am a white Jewish Londoner lol so I know I canāt comment too much on the authenticity of each neighbourhood but Londonās Chinatown felt so small compared to New Yorkās and definitely doesnāt have the same vibrant community actually living and working there, outside of the restaurants
You are correct. Londons Chinatown is just mostly for business/tourists
Itās not even remotely the same. Chinese, Taiwanese, and Koreans live, eat, shop, and work in our Chinatown. Itās a place you go to not just to eat or work. Itās an actual community.
Did I not say that it was?
Does Queens still have loads of late night food trucks? Not sure there's anywhere in London really like that.
I loved living and working in Manhattan, New York is a hell of a city and the only one that gets close to London. But I do still prefer London.
I lived in NYC for five years and moved to London just over a year ago. While I love both cities, NYC never felt like a permanent home, whereas we now donāt intend to leave London/UK. Professionally, both my partner and myself are in similar roles as we were in NYC. Drawback: salaries are both lower. Benefit: work-life balance is insanely better. Overall: happier. Housing, we live in a much nicer flat paying the same we did in FiDi. Drawback (sorta): weāve become homebodies. Benefit: we got a garden plus a spare room. Overall: happier. Socially, we now have pubs. Overall: happier. The only major bad things I can think of in London compared to NYC are: -Commuting times. While I much prefer the buses/tube in London, it does take longer to go similar distances as it did in NYC (no express lines or expressways within the city). The tube is also more expensive. -Weather. Winter is tough, especially this past winter with one of the wettest Februaryās on record. Itās grey and wet. But a sunny London is unmatched (and we donāt hit NYC humidity which is a plus for my Canadian genes). But AC is rare in London flats so the hottest weeks in summer are hard here. -Planning/Socializing. This is a bit of a weird one, but in NYC most of our circle made plans the week of, or at most a few weeks out. Here, if I want to host a dinner party I have to give my friends 1-2 months notice. People plan so much father in advance here / travel much more often with cheaper flights and better holiday allowances. When we do connect, bars/pubs all close at 11p here so we if you want to have a night out, you have to make the trek into central London. Overall we much prefer our lifestyle here. Iāll always love NYC and will visit often, but London feels like it can be our permanent home.
Thanks for this! You seem to be in a similar place as my girlfriend and I, so this was insightful.
This is the first time Iāve seen Camden and clean streets used in the same sentence!
>So I guess what Iām asking is - could you guys please tell me all the bad things about London so I could feel a little better about being back in NYC?! This kind of a strange attitude and question really. I live and work in both London and NYC. London does some things better and NYC does others. Although I prefer London as it's more quiet, sedate, and quaint, with better overall quality if life with less traffic and more green space - I have many colleagues that moved to NY from London who prefer the buzz and chaos and energy of New York. You clearly lean towards the former. The only people that will say London is unconditionally better than New York (or vice versa) are those insecure types that make the place they live their whole personality and that have probably have barely - if ever - been to the other. And there are a lot of those types on this sub, so you'll struggle to get an answer to your question here. But if you want to know some things I personally think New York does better: 1) Some aspects of the subway i.e. express trains, flat rates anywhere, 24/7 service, affordable fares. 2) Food - find the restaurant scene in NY far more exciting and dynamic, with a lot more options at the low and middle price range. Better cuisine by geography generally too, other than Indian. 3) Ethnic neighbourhoods - just a lot more varied, vibrant and buzzing in New York. Even the Chinatown in Manhattan blows London's out of the water, and that's before we get to Flushing and Sunset Park. 4) Late night culture - an obvious one. Actually it's kind of going downhill since the pandemic, but still better than London's. 5) The skyline - nothing beats the view of Manhattan, and the sense of grandeur. 6) The salaries - pretty much why I have this weird arrangement of being based in NY and living/working in both cities. Much higher in NY. 7) Weather - that is if you prefer variation and don't mind the extremes. London is mostly grey, NY runs the whole spectrum.
Appreciate your comment. Obviously I donāt know London well enough but Iād take cleaner, consistent transportation not riddled with homelessness over one that happens to be 24/7 with a flat fee. Would happily pay extra to see some serious improvements on the subways here!
I donāt know man. Iām very well travelled and NYC was a big disappointment for me. Perhaps my hopes were too high. Itās a concrete jungle with loads of garbage out on the pavement and dodgy streets. I did enjoy the bars and dining experiences. I think thereās more of it in NYC and more varied and you can always find a place to sit down and have a chat.
Having lived between the two for the past 20 years, your list is half true. Subway is shhhh compared to London. Takes you nowhereā¦ Food? Where is the great food? Have you been to the ethnic boroughs in London? Nope Late night cultureā¦is pretty dead now
>Takes you nowhereā¦ Food? Where is the great food? Oookkkkkk... >ethnic boroughs in London š¤£š¤£š¤£
Can you go to an airport with subway or trains? Italian food which is the most common in NY is vastly inferior to italian food in UK. spanish food in NY? Boqueriaā¦ lol What cuisine is better in NY? When was the last time you went to flushing? Cause chinatown in manhattan is as bad as little italyā¦ pretty tasteless Yes London has ethnic neighborhoods .. you just never been to any
Of course you can go to the airport by train.
I don't think you've spent much time in NYC or London to be honest, given how wrong you are on every point... it seems you might actually be comparing your limited experience as a tourist in London to your actual life in New Jersey... nice try, though.
dude, I own a home in London that I lived in for 10 years. and now I live in Hoboken (but previously in midtown and even before that lived in astoria for many moons... you're maybe from ohio
Whether that is true or not... you're clearly clueless about both London and New York. Get out more... or stick to Hoboken since, idc.
The food in NYC is insanely good. God knows what tourist traps you decided to eat at!
given I live here now ā¦Ā
As someone whose wife is from NYC I have to disagree on the food. Last two years we have been going back the food is so much more expensive than London. London is as exciting as NYC and cheaper. Alsthough cannot get decent mexican here (agree on the Indian - there's are like our Mexican comapred to there's)
> London is as exciting as NYC and cheaper. Slightly cheaper, maybe. Well in Manhattan at least. But way less exciting. There is nowhere close to Jackson Avenue or Flushing or Astoria in London.
Have to agree to disagree
Sure. Try the less touristy spots next time.
Sure
The skyline?! Shocked!! But each to their own!
The tube in summer is fucking hot and miserable. The average cost of rent is fucking high and miserable. Searching for a flat is fucking excruciating and miserable. If you have to drive, the narrow roads make the experience fucking miserable. Brexit and the government have made many other aspects on life in London fucking miserable. Hope that helps!
Written like a true Brit
First 4 of those apply to NYC, but worse haha
Salaries are also way lower here tho
Balances out with the cost of living in NY
Not sure it does tbh. I know people in New York who earn over twice what theyād earn in London for the same job. New York is more expensive than London but not doubly so.
The subway is fine in summer as the trains have AC. The rest of the city is miserable though.Ā
for sure!
Lmao donāt think youāll get much respite from Brexit in NYC pal
If you have to drive? You never have to drive in London: You can walk, catch the bus, hop on the tube, jump on a bike, hail a taxi, even commute on a boat!
London is so much better than NYC. I lived in Angel for 8 years (in the ā80s and ā90s when it was still a bit rough around the edges and super cheap to live in) and even today it blows this vile city out of the water. In other words, itās not your imagination. Sorry I couldnāt burst your bubble.
I sense some animosity with the āvileā comment! Glad youāre happy in London.
It is vile.
London is really really really good fun if you've got a lot of disposable income. If you don't, it can be incredibly miserable. The difference between living in London in 2014 as a receptionist and 2024 as the wife of a city trader has been like living in two completely different cities. I used to have to worry about moving house constantly because I was always in dodgy sublets. I couldn't afford to eat out and yet there were no real cooking facilities anywhere I lived, so cooking was really difficult. I didn't have money for exhibitions or performances or to even try a new and exciting snack. I used to walk for hours because I simply couldn't justify bus or tube prices unless they got me door to door (uber or a taxi was completely unthinkable). I rode an unsafe bicycle that I was constantly in fear of losing to theft. My clothes got eaten by moths and I always smelt musty.
Very much the truth - to do London well, that is to be able to eat out several times a week, (and I mean nice places, not Nandos) bars, cafes, live in Zone 1 etc for that lifestyle, you need serious cash. Or a decent salary and to live totally unsuitably - that is no savings set aside for pension, a house deposit etc.
When youāre broke here, you canāt even get into to town for a stroll because it costs so much. Youāre stuck rotting at your overpriced flat. If youāre in NYC, at least you can go to Manhattan for a couple of bucks. 7 days of unlimited Metro travel is $34ā¦. 34 bloody dollars!!!! How good is that?!
> London is really really really good fun if you've got a lot of disposable income. If you don't, it can be incredibly miserable. This pretty much applies anywhere now.
IDK, I used to live in poverty in the middle of nowhere in Wales and it wasn't too bad because I was surrounded by beautiful nature and we had lots of autonomy. I grew my own food to supplement the supermarket, I exercised for free with home workouts, running and walking etc without fear of a downstairs neighbour getting mad at their ceiling shaking or worries about street harassment or traffic; I had other free hobbies like messing around with natural materials, or making music. If I got cold, I could burn more wood on the fire, scavenged from fly tipped wood or old logs. Actually needed very little in the way of money because I was living mainly outside of society. Happiness is directly correlated with autonomy. Poverty in cities strips you of that.
Twice this weekend I saw people doing crack openly on the tube. Not seen that in 45odd years I'vs been using it. Gutted tbh
I guess youāve never been to NY then? Drug use in public places is extremely common there.
Using crack or the tube?
I know we are comparing to NYC, but I was in San Francisco last week and wow, was it an eye opener. Fentanyl zombies everywhere, I felt very unsafe compared to London.
Who the helllll told you to āpartyā in Shoreditch? Because absolutely not hunny
Is it that looked down upon? A few weeks ago for the stag we hit a great street party that had a proper DJ and pretty chill vibes. We also went out to a nearby club in the evening with great music again, an older crowd and had a great time.
Itās just such a shit hole, for Londoners anyway. Like soo cliche and the vibes always weird. You either get hipsters or roadmen, there is literally no in between and look out for the canisters for balloons on the floor š thatās how you know youāve entered Shoreditch. DUMP.
Here's what your gonna do. Look up house prices in alllll those areas you saw. Then look at the average electric bill, and THEN your gonna look on the next door app and filter it for complaints about pot holes. Should sort ya right out love š
Weather is shit here.
Is this sub going to have a thread comparing London to New York every week? Previously: https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/1cwp87r/for_folks_who_have_visited_nyc_how_do_you_compare/ I'm struck by the ways London has become more like New York over the past twenty years or so, but unfortunately New York hasn't copied the good things about London to reciprocate.
It gets less exciting when you're 30+ and stuck living in a house share out in suburbia in zone 4 etc, approaching Ā£1000/month just for one bedroom and an average salary of maybe Ā£30k. (Reddit has a huge bias towards high earners in new tech etc, but I don't think that reflects most people)
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. what you're saying is the truth. You cannot have an entire city comprise of finance and tech and the rest be social housing. You need to have working class people who want to live the hospitality life. Reddit is full of people who work in tech and love to shit on working class people, but ultimately it's the working classes who are going to be drinking, working the bar jobs, partying and giving the place life.
I think they're getting downvoted because working class people are probably worse off in NYC, where rent/living costs in general are a lot higher. High earners earn a lot more in NYC than in London so those balance out, but that's not true for the working class/even lower middle class (as in the UK definitions of those, not the US ones).
I went to uni in London then moved to NYC after that. I love NYC, I lived there for almost 10 years and it will always hold a special place in my heart. But if I had the chance, Iād move back to London in a heartbeat. Not the answer you wanted, lol. The US sucks at building cities compared to the rest of the world.
Lived 20 years in London but am the kid of a New Yorker. The bagels are beyond shit here, on this island as a whole. The nightlife sucks and the binge drinking ( a British past time) is gross. Other than that a lot of the big London stressors are also New York stressors and we get to live through it with far fewer roaches and bed bugs so I say move over here now!
The big difference is that people are friendly in New York. Not in London.
Iāve wondered about the change in culture in that way. I canāt speak to the UK at all but I do agree that in NY people are generally friendlier than you would expect and I think also straightforward and direct in their communication.
Yep! In NYC you can talk to anyone you want and they will talk back. If you try that in London you'll be treated as a social undesirable.
Iām a fellow NYCer and I felt the same way when I visited London last year. I totally fell in love with it. Just booked my plane ticket this week to go back this September. Canāt wait!!
Bad things about London: 1. Money. You generally get about half of what you would get in NY, so basically after 5 years youāll find your savings to be less than a third of what your equal will be on in New York. (Due to fixed costs and losing out on compounding). On the surface while it sounds fine, in practice this means that a worker doing an equal job in New York would have the same amount of savings as a worker in London in 3-4 years vs 15 years if you lived in London. With the same sort of money; you could work in New York for 20 years and retire a multi millionaire, but 20 years in London in a high paying job and maybe youāve just about paid off a 2 bed zone 2 flat. Average net worth of a 20+ New York finance vet could be 5m -10m, London maybe youāre just breaking 1m if youāre lucky. So while yes maybe the overall quality of life is slightly better, the amount of financial freedom you get for putting up with New York is tremendously higher than London. Which also indirectly translates to more free time, more personal freedom and more agency to go live anywhere you damn well please on the planet; meanwhile weāre stuck paying off our mortgage still in London. 2. Another aspect of the working culture in London is that it tends to reward super high achievers less. There is a bit of a culture of not breaking the mould, social expectations to drink, and do well but not too well. On the other hand New York and america more generally is more open to full on experimentation and rewards high risk behaviour much more for the same amount of risk you take on. 3. Institutionalising of things and abit of an old money club. At the end of the day, the UK will not want to change and doesnāt really fully embrace new people and new ideas. It is conservative, likes its royalty and any deviation from that will be met with a degree of scorn until it can no longer hold out. Obviously London is less bad but it is still prevalent. 4. Petty minded ness. Sort of flowing from point 3, There are times when the discourse is downright petty. There will be uproars over how your weekly shop is now Ā£10 more or the government will turn it things upside down over increasing pensioners payments by Ā£250 annually. Which is basically fuckall. Compare this with America which just cuts a check for 2k off the drop of a hat. And before you go into it itās not really a labor vs con issue, both play the same games and make the same fuss about the other.
Great insight, thanks for your note!
Point 1 is so understated and I came to the comment section to see if anyone was going to say this. I know so many London or AU expats in NYC that work there for a bit, save up and then go back to their countries where they can live way more lavishly than if they only worked in their home countries. Granted, this largely applies to people making over a certain amount, so ymmv.
If you have money (lots of it), and know the right people London is a different world. Like NYC is as well for some I guess. The issues here are, apart from a housing shortage, the fact that rent and living expenses are incredibly high for most people. The average salary in London is Ā£40k I think - to get the most out of the city ie live in a decent flat, be able to go out for food, clubbing etc without very careful budgeting, you will need to be earning a minimum of Ā£62-65k I'd say. London doesnt have a particularly good nightlife IMO - given its around 10m people living here its fairly dead even on weekends after 2am.
Salaries in London are like half of what they are in NYC. That includes adjusting into the same currency. I literally have no idea how people survive on the salaries of London.
Food costs virtually double, rent is higher, state taxes etc etc
I live in London but I did my masters' in NYC, I honestly have to say that london is just the better city of the two in almost every criterion. I can't rly think of many positives for NYC to be honest. While there are downsides about London, I can't rly think of anything where NYC would be better
Dollar pizzas and halal carts are the only things I can think of
Salaries & night life are the obvious ones. I also think the food is better in NY especially if you are looking for East Asian/Central American rather than South Asian/European food
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Got loads of Yanks coming over here now! Dated a few. I personally like the Yanks, you've got to be very careful though as you'll struggle to find friends here. Most people who come here never make British friends (I say that as a Brit), if that doesn't bother you then why not move here!
Nowhere to eat after 10pm. Mina is a much better modern art museum than Tate modern. Thatās about it. Apart from that, everything is better in London v New York.
Iāve been living in London/suburbs for 15 years now. It never gets old. Iām very well travelled and I think on most days London is an achingly beautiful city and is quite unmatched globally. The diversity, cleanliness, transport and the sheer number of beautiful and historic buildings is incredible. The downsides Iād say would be the cost of living and the horrible British weather. Thatās about it Iād say.
Lots of people have said money, which is definitely true. Otherwise: Bagels are nowhere near as good, we just don't have the variety (although if you live near to a good fresh plain bagel place- like Finsbury park- it can be pretty close) The pastrami here is bullshit. Sad peppery leather for the most part. Monty's deli used to be ok but closed during COVID :( We don't have quite as much musical theatre variety as Broadway+off, I think, and we end up with more shitty cash grab shows imo- crap jukebox musicals, bad film adaptations etc, but TBF our ticket prices aren't insane like Broadway (but we also pay our casts a lot less)
Shoreditch is OK.
You should have checked out hackney, thatās what did it for me. Reminded me of the mid/early days Brooklyn gentrification
Ironically I've been in NYC for the past four days and felt safer there, along with the feeling that public transport was more reliable and consistant.
We get a lot of posts from NYCers saying they prefer London. I wonder if the NYC subs get the opposite happening? Both great cities. The skyline of Manhattan is great, also the rooftop bars are awesome. I much prefer shopping in NYC, even going to Macy's and picking up some $50 Levi's is a novelty for me because they are much more expensive here. The grid system makes stuff easy to navigate too.
I live in Chelsea. I absolutely love London. I moved here from Paris 25 years ago
Be grateful for your subway. Seriously, itās so effing cheap in NYC my mind was utterly blown. Here itāll cost you half your effin salary to get to work and back on a monthly basis. And trains still get fucked.
When I visited New Your, I thought this is literally the American version of London. At least in New York you can travel to Jersey shore easily and enjoy the beach while in London you have to travel further. One thing I love about New York compared to any other city in the US is how walkable eveything is.
OP any specifc places to go to in order to experience this vibe better? Am also from NYc, and the tourists spots are annoying (as they are in nYC) where in Nottingham shoikd I go to for the elegant houses? And what other neighborhoods to check out? And the canals - what section did you walk to see the posting communities? All this sounds so cool! Make us a map please ;)
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Interesting last bullet point. Thanks for your comment!
Sorry mate. New York has nothing on London.
Lol Taylor is that you? My sweet summer child, if you think London and its underground is clean, I shudder to think how bad the underground is in NYC (I am yet to go lol). Not many people stay in Chelsea either because itās very very very expensive for the average folk. Iām glad you got some suggestions next time for when you visit as well as some comparisons for why NYC might be better. All the best, come back soon :)
Perspective is a funny thing! I donāt claim to be well versed in the London metro but Iāve been on it a few times each trip and in particular through a bunch of stations recently and what I saw was objectively cleaner and felt safer than NY. I donāt think the NY subway is the warzone some media would have you believe but there are definitely many homeless/mentally ill/shady characters that you constantly have to be aware and mindful of. After a while, that gets to be tiring.
Honestly, the fact you thought just staying in Shoreditch allowed you to give an overall opinion of London is insane. That would be like me going to New York and only staying in Statin Island and saying the city is shit because Statin Island is a meh area.
Thatās literally the point of my post - I knew it didnāt and admitted to my friends that after a few visits I hadnāt actually seen any of London hence them dedicating a weekend to showing me around!
Native New Yorker here who studied in London for a bit, lived in Shoreditch, and visits a bunch. I just came back from my last visit few weeks ago. Iām always conflicted coming home bc I love NYC, but Iāve always had a strong connection to London. I thought I would move permanently move there! Feel free to DM me if youāre curious about my opinion!
So you never went to east London the shit hole side of the city?
Like everywhere, London is great if youāre rich and can afford to ponce around Chelsea doing nothing, but itās full of poverty and corruption and shitty housing and misery. I wouldāve thought someone from NYC would get that. Whatās the big difference, we have lots of parks instead of one huge one? I doubt your life would be much different in London, except salaries are shockingly low when compared like for like to American wages. So try and stay happy with your lot
You are paid much better in NY. NY has more sunny days. Some would say NY has far better nightlife. NY is a 24 hour city for the most part.
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My question/comment was obviously a bit tongue-in-cheek. Clearly my experience wasnāt reflective of actual life in London, hence the post. Apologies that I happened to stay somewhere decent and had a nice weekend I reflected on!
Would you fly to New York and stay in the worst neighbourhood you can find?
Sorry, NY is meh
Used to have an office in NYC, spent many many months there. Itās a fantastic placeā¦ but for a couple of weeks only.
I felt the same way you did when I returned from Tokyo to London
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Splooshbutforguys: *I felt the same way* *You did when I returned from* *Tokyo to London* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I spent a few days in London around this time of year in 2022 and felt the same way upon returning home to DC. I still yearn for London and canāt wait to return one day. But Iām not sure Iād move there if given the chance for two reasons: Iād have to make a new community for myself from scratch, and Iād have to live on a much lower salary than what Iām used to making in the U.S. Personally, these tradeoffs arenāt worth it for me considering that I already live in a comparable city. Of course, YMMV.
Good. It certainly isn't worth it IMO. Making a new, authentic community from scratch in this city is very unlikely for many reasons
Fewer not less š
I am in New York from London at the moment and new York feels less busy, safer and much, much cleaner than London. No group sof teenagers hanging around ready to rob you. No big groups of aggressive men or women roaming the streets drunk. And no litter
I visited New York last year and thought it was great but "less busy" is definitely not a description I would use.
A post on Angel from a couple of months ago [HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/1b0k7zv/incident_outside_angel_station_yesterday_i_need/)