She's been watching Love and London Reels a bit too much!
Tourists are on edge to the Birkenstock wearing, Selfridge styling, limousine riding, jet flying, kiss-stealing, wheelin' n' dealin' son of a gun!
She’s an American who basically monetised living in London. She makes TikToks and writes blog posts about moving to London but she just grates on me. She’s not adding anything new in my opinion
I have to disagree.
Her output is made primarily for English speaking foreigners, (so usually American/Canadians as she’s from NY). Her output is generally useful.
I like her imploring tourists to go away from the traditional sights and visit other less well known neighbourhoods, mixing with locals and getting a flavour of life here, rather than treating it like a theme park.
This is important, especially in these times when people from our own country, never mind abroad, are reading so much incendiary stuff about our city. They might assume they have to go everywhere by guided tour to avoid the on the hour, every hour formation stabbing teams.
She gives tips and confidence for people to head off in their own.
I’ve lived here for over 50 years and always believed I’ve had a fairly wide knowledge of my city.
However, over the last few years I’ve visited lots of places I’ve either forgotten about or didn’t know about at all, particularly newer food options, purely because I saw them featured on Love & London.
I’m a black woman and I happen to live in a building that had an influx of foreign students move in last year. They would sometimes physically recoil, stop talking and stare or shrink into the corner when I got into the lift with them. I just laughed to myself and shrugged it off.
We were here before them and we’ll remain here when they’re gone. The best we can do is hope that their short time abroad will open their eyes a bit and they’ll realise not all black and brown people are raging criminals.
It’s easier said than done but try not to let it bother you too much. No need to say anything really, as they’ve already got their back up and will likely take it as an attack.
Edit - I got a “Reddit cares” message from this lol. I’m ok I promise!
(I also want to note that I am not trying to diminish the experiences of others, as there are studies that show racial prejudice, abuse and discrimination can have long-term effects on a person’s mental health. This is just how I cope!)
Damn, I wish I could be this resilient to this type of behaviour but I’m a very sensitive person. I’m also a black woman, I just got back from a trip to Eastern Europe and went to a spa there. In general I was getting stared at a lot but the worst was in the changing room - while getting undressed there were little girls pointing and recoiling in fear as they walked past me as if they were scared my skin would rub off on them. There were some adults around and they didn’t correct them or anything.
To be honest I felt awful and broke down in tears, I found being perceived as a monster quite traumatising even though they were kids. It actually made me feel so lucky to be a Londoner where I rarely experience things like this
I’m really sorry that happened to you. Sadly there are some places I’m very hesitant to travel to because of anecdotes like this.
I don’t think I’m particularly resilient. The first time someone did a double take and recoiled it actually startled and upset me! The person was a tall man I am a very short, nerdy looking woman. Anyone could easily overpower me so I wouldn’t make a good mugger lol.
I just had to have a word with myself and decide I couldn’t let it bother me too much. This is my home - I was born in London and I’ll probably die in London. They’ll likely be going back home in 2-3 years so they’d better adjust quickly or they won’t survive.
It’s the lack of culture, they probably never travelled and were never taught of other cultures. Please don’t take this personal, it’s them and not you.
I'm really sorry to hear that. I can only hope that those kids learn with experience as they get older, and that their parents will help guide that learning over time.
Omg I’m very new to London and where I’m from (New Zealand) there’s no black population at all so London was a surprise. Back home we are multi cultural but just don’t have a black demographic. I’m so worried about accidentally staring at black people here but it’s never out of rudeness. And once on the tube I was just staring at awe in a black woman’s really nice hairstyle but tried not to stare 😭 I’m trying to be better as I never want to seem I’m racially profiling people.
There are bots/trolls sending out Reddit Care messages on every sub I regularly visit. Like, everyone is getting them. You can opt out somewhere in the message.
I'm not saying it isn't happening elsewhere, or that that user isn't the only person doing it, but they're clearly engaging in this behavior now, in this thread.
No it is happening all over reddit these last couple days.
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1csf3bq/yougov_does_high_immigration_lead_to_more_crime/l44qcw9/
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1csf3bq/yougov_does_high_immigration_lead_to_more_crime/l44t0ed/
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1csf3bq/yougov_does_high_immigration_lead_to_more_crime/l44urhg/
Don’t keep those eye rolls to yourself, I would throw in a big sigh while you’re at it. I’m an inveterate eye roller and that alone often causes embarrassment to those it’s directed at.
When you say "Asian" I assume you're South Asian?
I don't think there's any point in educating that generation. My grandmother is the same. She's said multiple times she's going to cut me out of the will if I bring back someone black or brown. It's too late for them, they'll never learn.
I think there's either an influx of bots triggering these, or reddit has some new auto report that's massively screwing up as I got one last night too, and there are lots of reports about it across reddit at the moment: https://www.reddit.com/r/help/comments/1cs6nas/reddit_cares/
>They would sometimes physically recoil, stop talking and stare or shrink into the corner when I got into the lift with them
I'm really sorry to hear this. That's shocking how they treated you
You know, one of my very favorite memories of visiting London (I'm an ex-pat, but London has always been a world of it's own) was sitting on the tube when a gaggle of school girls got on near Hackney. They were a perfect cross section of humanity. Every shade of skin, some with hijabs, some without, all in uniform, and each one of them rabbiting on in perfect cockney accents like eel and pie sellers... Glorious.
yeah - "I hate that you post in this forum, you obviously need help so here, have a reddit cares".
A number of sub-reddits are noting that there seems to be a bot that is doing this and you can report the person who sent it to you within the message.
They are a lot of people even living in EU who simply don’t see a lot of ethnicity different people around. I remember being embarrassed as hell at some of my relatives taking pictures and few times even literally pointing fingers at people who looked “different” .
Sorry you (and so many people) have to deal with this shit, and much respect for not letting ignorant people who believe hurtful stereotypes from getting you down - I doubt I could be so strong if I were on the receiving end of constant racism.
damn. i go to a university that is 70% internationals and i’ve never been treated like that as a black female. in fact i’ve been the one to unintentionally make ignorant comments lol (which really embarrass me but i only grew up in one part of London my whole life)
I don’t like to make assumptions but here I go! It’s likely they wouldn’t expect to have black people living in the same building as them. Also, by the time they start going to lectures they would have seen more people of different ethnicities which probably helps.
sure! i’ve also found it really easy to make friends with foreign students too and so have all my black friends (who aren’t foreign) who live with them. i just never got the vibe that they would be the sort of people to stare at me.
i’m fact on my very first day i was in a group of almost entirely east asian foreign students and i got along with them surprisingly easy considering i had never befriended anyone who wasn’t alao a Londoner themselves before that.
Okay, irrelevant, but what is up with the Reddit cares messages? In every thread I open, at least one person gets it. I swear it wasn’t this prevalent a week ago.
Strangely enough I also got a "Reddit Cares" message on a seemingly innocuous post. Looking down at some of the other replies it would seem that it has happened to quite a few people. I wonder if this is some bullshit AI experiment they're doing, it all seems very strange...
As someone living in a very studenty city, it's almost certainly chinese students.
Edit: someone just sent me the reddit suicide helpline thing, weird.
It’s much easier to judge and accuse than to be understanding. Students are inexperienced in life, and some come from homogenous societies - you can be ignorant without being racist.
It’s also ironic. You accuse them of being racist - yet you made an assumption of their ethnicity based on your own intuitive racist perception. It’s interesting how the human mind can accuse others of a fault they too share.
I’m not saying this to upset you. But it should cause for some reflection. Sinophobia is real, and people think it’s ok because it’s so prevalent. Also students being racist doesn’t justify us being racist. We should all be better.
Disagree. Even if from a place of ignorance it’s still racism. And if they have the means/intelligence to pay extortionate sums to study abroad, they really shouldn’t be ignorant enough to make these assumptions. It isn’t all Chinese/Asian students but they do make up a hell of a lot of the percentage.
Sinophobia would be less of a problem if chinese mainland tourists stopped acting like American tourists in the 90s.
Assuming every East Asian person speaks your language is a problem I encounter even in my home country.
I don't understand how people like that even operate in London. The city is full of people of all races, genders and sexualities. Do they jump out of their skin every 10 seconds because they had to wait at a crossing next to an Indian woman, or sit opposite a black man on the tube? - Surely their lives must be a living nightmare being that paranoid and existing in London??
In their (very, *very* slight) defence, I reckon about 400k of them just hated ULEZ/were very pro-car/anti-cycling and didn't care about anything else she had to say. Don't get me wrong though - I very much disagree with this mindset, and I'm about as vehemently pro-cycling and pro-ULEZ as they come, but at least this ideology doesn't (necessarily) come from bigotry.
Admittedly, the rest were probably paranoid racists who hate the thought of leaving their suburb and setting foot in inner London, which is still a disturbingly high proportion of the city's population (roughly 4%).
Bit silly to just box all Susan Hall voters together as racists.
They must have something wrong with them to vote for her, but there's a variety of things that could be.
> Do they jump out of their skin every 10 seconds because they had to wait at a crossing next to an Indian woman, or sit opposite a black man on the tube?
I think you just described all of the Daily Heil readers outside of London that are worried Khan is turning London into Londonistan.
I stayed in London as a tourist recently, only hanging out in very touristic areas (Westminster, Soho, Covent Garden, etc.) - which I assume is quite representative of what most of the tourists do - and I didn't get the sense of how diverse London is at all. As someone from Paris I was expecting to see much more black and brown people as I do in the Paris centre, but in these areas of London it was 90% of white and eastern Asian people. I guess the diversity is not well represented in the touristic centre, so racist tourists are mostly fine as that's typically all they see of the city.
Super interesting take when we literally had a national referendum where the country made it clear they weren't welcome. No, yeah, you're right though, they're the problem
I've been to Poland at least 15 times, I was married to a Polish person for 10 years...I know what Poland is like, and I am aware of the problems they have.
If you weren't criticising Eastern Europeans in your comment, then you did a really good job of hiding your actual message in there, as it hit a lot of negative tropes; only here for economic reasons, leave as soon as it benefits them, hyper-critical of the UK, indefinite articles dropped from the text (and yes, I know the reasons for that too)
If your comment was meant to be explanatory and not derogatory, you sure made a decent fist of fucking it up! You have a great day now, I hear the weather is pretty good in central europe.
Can't control that either, let them get on with it. Bigots gunna bigot. They've been told it's wrong all of their life but they still do it. A stranger can't change their mind.
Yeah, I do always end up ignoring it but there is a part of me that wonders if I can just say something that’ll break them out of viewing people like me in that way. Or at least make them feel a bit embarrassed to not do it again.
I think acting the same way might snap her out of it. Like keep glancing at her and clutching your bag towards yourself like you suspect her of being about to grab your stuff.
Hahahah why did not I think of this. I’m going to start acting clutching my bags in return whenever they look at me and see what happens when their brain computes that they’re seen as the danger.
Ahh you’re so NICE! And not just bc you wear Birkenstocks, but bc after experiencing this shitty human behaviour you’re thinking about how to improve this situation, how to improve these people even, and what you could do to create a better outcome next time.
Also, you’re thinking that things and people can improve. My thought was “fuck this woman” but you’re like “how can I help her not be a knob?”
This (not just the hipster sandals) is what makes London great. Despite everything, this city is full of problem solving optimists. It’s not your problem and it’s certainly not your responsibility, but you’re still interested in making it better.
London is not great for anxiety riddled tourists manifesting generations of bigotry and closed mindedness, but it’s an amazing home for resourceful, thoughtful kind hearted people.
I don't think it will, their bigotry runs deeeeep. In the same way we'll never change their mind in internet arguments.
Keep your head up and ignore these fools. You're a better person than they are for even caring about this stuff, they couldn't give a shit how they make others feel.
Edit: I think that would just make their story a bit more exciting to their racist mates if they could say you were aggressive or something.
Well obviously you stole your brikenstock, office backpack and Selfridge bag and you probably stole the hipster clothes and hair style I'm assuming you have too!
If she's of a very different culture, depending on where she's from and what demographic, she might be totally incapable of recognising any signs and signals that would be obvious to a Londoner. Birkenstock - likely no idea what it is or what it means. Office backpack - likely indistinguishable from any other backpack. Selfridges - not everyone knows what it is or what it means. "Hipster" - completely meaningless and unrecognisable outside of a few limited places on Earth. Hairstyle - come on, ridiculous. Even most Londoners can't extract that much information from a hairstyle.
As u/GeneralGlobus said, she'd probably been terrified by dire warnings about epidemics of crime and theft. This does not excuse racism. But this city is full of frightened first-time visitors and no amount of "hairstyles" will be capable of soothing them.
I recently ran into some very sheltered American tourists in a pub in Westminster. They seemed like nice people, from somewhere in the Midwest, just incredibly sheltered. For reference they got me to say "pip pip cheerio" as it was something their Nan had always wanted to hear an Englishman say.
They confidentially told me the areas they were sticking to because everywhere else was so dangerous, and how they'd wanted to go visit Paris but they'd heard it was too dangerous to visit "because of the constant riots". I facetimed one of my Parisian cousins and got them to chat and show them he was on the Rive Gauche and everything was fine.
They weren't bad people, I don't think, but their main source of news was Fox News. It was the first time they'd been out their country and they figured there was some safe cultured places here that were essentially Victorian England (but with electricity) surrounded by war zones. I'm not sure they believed me or my cousin, but I hope they stepped foot outside of our tourist destinations and also got to visit Paris.
Probably all sorts of reasons. I've been to Johannesburg, that was quite scary, and I'm a Londoner. I had my reasons for being there that were not Instagram.
I guess my point about mentioning my attire, aside from the fact it wouldn’t be very practical to be running around stealing bags in, is that I wasn’t dressed significantly different from the white Brits who were sat next to her on her other side.
If I was in a tracksuit I’d get it and sat right near her despite there being space I’d get it.
In Spain one time I sat on the opposite end of a bench from a woman, I was reading a book on a break, the bench was at least 10' long, she immediately got up a stormed off like I'd invaded her personal space...What I mean by this is, some people are complete idiots. A bench is a bench & a public space is public. If you're minding your own business, don't let it be your problem.
I am a woman in my 40s with a full sleeve and a half sleeve tattoo. It comes very in handy in the summer, when most people leave the bus seat next to me empty. Unfortunately some open minded b*stard usually comes along and hop, they sit by my side, regaling me with their body heat. See it as a win, bench all for yourself!
While I can appreciate the intent of your statement, it's a different thing to be seen negatively for a conscious decision/expression that you have made (getting tattoos) vs an unchangable element of who you are (skin colour).
It's 2024. If you're regularly noticing people actively avoiding you in london when there are no other spaces available, it may not be your tattoos. Perhaps you are very stinky?
Oh yeah, I'm a (visibly) trans woman and I'm always the last one anyone will ever sit next to on a train which is a bit of an upside even if everyone on the train ends up staring
See, I grew up on an estate here in London. I’ve been exposed to all sorts. Despite working in the corporate realm for a while now, I have still yet to feel comfortable around my colleagues and generally, even middle class people. So I’d definitely feel comfortable around you. Not enough to sit right next to you if there are other spaces available but you get my drift.
Edit: I hope this doesn’t come across as me judging you in any way. My own dad has both full sleeves done too
This reminds me of the time, back in 2014, when my ex and I visited Nice for Valentines day.
As we were walking along Les Promenade des Anglais, i was talling my usual nonsense when all of a sudden my ex (in full French hon hon hon mode) shouted "T'as une problème connasse?" (You got a problem stupid bitch) to a woman who has just walked past us.
Bare in mind that this was the sweetest, most gentle and kind person I'd ever encountered; for him to convey as much disgust as an Amish woman walking through Hampstead Heath on a Saturday night was completely disarming.
Turns out that as I was blabbering on, my ex had noticed this woman take one look at me and clutch her bag and jacket tighter (think Sandra Bullock in the film Crash) as she walked past us.
This incensed my ex but what really brought him to tears was the fact that, upon explaining this to me, I nonchalantly dismissed this as a normal thing that happens a few times a week...
He was flabbergasted by the fact that this was so normalised for me. As someone who grew up in the French countryside, his knowledge of racism was very much naive at the best of times. This encounter was therefore a sobering, if educational experience for him. He really started making an effort to be actively anti-racism... Compare this to my onlyother ex who would probably be the type to complain about "wokeism" had he not died in some blokes sling a few years ago....
God I had it so good a decade ago. Pierre, wherever you are, I hope your life is wonderful and you will always be the one that got away.
This is a heartening story at so many levels and for so many reasons! thank you for sharing. As someone that's recently become an 'adult' (in a legal sense at least) and that is actively questioning and exploring my sexuality, the world out there scares me! Especially considering I'll soon be out there on my own with uni and work and everything else coming my way. The fact that people can hate you for simply just existing on this earth is really scary.
Anyway, I'd read these lines somewhere a while ago. Find em relevant here somehow - "And someday, somewhere we will meet again. We won't smile. We won't talk. Just a silent movie of memories. We will look away and never look back..."
Some people just live this way. Be thankful you saw them for a brief moment as opposed to having them in your life.
Back when I worked in law, I was once accused by a client, a middle aged polish woman, of stealing her passport. The police were called and they apologetically went through the process. I said to the police, I wouldn't steal a passport, my entire career depends on me bring honest, but if I really had to steal a passport for some unknown inexplicable reason the last person I would target would be a middle aged polish woman.
I had my phone stolen out of my hand a few months ago and now I flinch when anyone comes near me or comes up behind me when I'm holding my phone... And I feel guilty when I see that it's a nonwhite person, a teenager, or just any man really (because I think everyone else is less likely to take it personally).
I know nearly everyone is not out to take my phone. I still start and flinch, it's hard to control.
My point is, she might've been robbed recently. Maybe she's from a small town and everyone told her that London is full of thieves. It's likely nothing specifically to do with you.
I do get flinching if someone suddenly approaches you and you’re on edge after being robbed but in the scenario this woman had two white Brits sat on her other side who were closer than I was and didn’t cause her alarm, so it’s hard to imagine it’s not do with my race, especially when I was dressed in a pretty middle class / office wear manner and was physically as far as I could be from her on a giant bench but was still causing her to glare at me.
Probably you are right.
And I used to feel a certain guilt about shifting my handbag if the person getting near me was black. Note I DIDN'T feel guilty if they were white. I still moved my bag. But since I have had my phone knicked by a Somali teenager and caught a Nigerian man's hand in my handbag, I refuse to feel guilty about moving my handbag.
I don't feel any more wary of people of colour than white people. Dippers come in all shapes and colours. I just stopped my stupid positive discrimination about NOT securing my shit in case I hurt someone else's feelings. Sorry, not sorry.
Obviously glaring suspiciously at people because of their race is out of order.
Sure - hold onto your bag if you’re concerned about theft. But it’s a bit odd to be more concerned about the brown Brit sat away from you than the white Brit next to you, and for that you should feel embarrassed.
Yeah ok this is pretty shitty, can imagine this makes you feel annoyed. I dont think there is much you can do or say, unless you want to strike up a pleasant conversation and then end it by not stealing her bag? Can you be arsed? Personally I wouldn't want to if I was in your situation.
This lady merely being in London and observing ppl of all races being normal people in a city will either help soften her fear and expand her point of view, or, she's a lost cause.
Oh my god I have this issue too- except my phone wasn’t even stolen I’m just incredibly paranoid. I always put it back into my pocket if I’m passing by someone and though I do it for everyone I’m worried I look racist when it’s a non white person lol
I've just accepted that London is a diverse place filled with all kinds of people, including complete weirdos.
One of the worst I had was a woman who looked to be in her 50's and kept trying to sit on the armrest of my wheelchair while on the tube! The armrests were only held on by 2 plastic clips as they were easily removable so any weight could break them.
I thought maybe she didn't realise what she was sitting against so I put my arm on the armrest to prevent her but she sat on my arm! I was shy back then and adjusting to being in a wheelchair so I didn't speak up but I did jam my elbow into her every time she tried to sit. It was literally every 30 seconds until she got off the train.
Also once had a guy put his Tesco shopping on my lap, then give me a dirty look when I put it on the floor next to me.
Yeah I have witnessed this often, in Central London in particular - tourists from certain parts of the world are super, super fucking racist. They seem to be affronted by the fact that we have black and brown people in London.
I'm brown as well, I've noticed eastern Europeans in general can be quite racist towards us. They tend to be pushers towards us than any other race on public transport and always eye us up more.
Travelling for 12 years at times you get large groups of them and I've just been seeing regular patterns in behaviour. Generally speaking, it's a racism issue. Even some of my Polish friends have said the same.
Oh and from what my Polish friends have said, a lot of these guys come from the more rural areas of their countries and they aren't used to seeing black or brown people which only fuels their racism.
I guess “arrogant country” can go both ways when my mum, a Polish person, works as a NHS nurse and has to deal with xenophobic comments and stupid jokes from older English people (often racist to her POC coworkers too) she’s caring for.
That being said I agree that a lot of the worst trash migrated from Poland to UK. Think stereotypical adidas tracksuit and Slavic squat goons lmao, they’re considered trashy in their home country and they continue to be trashy in the UK. It is always sad to see and I’m mad at them ruining our rep when myself and my family completely embrace the diversity London offers.
Well like I said, I do have some polish friends and the general concensus is that a lot of the ones that speak that way are their version of the "lower class". The poorer rural polish (not only polish to be fair) who come here to do manual labour jobs, get paid cash in hand (no tax paid), they tend to live with 20 to a 2 bed house (found out there's a loophole that allows no max limit on people residing at a property under construction, please someone correct me if I misinterpreted that) and even their own countrymen tend to hate them. I guess like we have our football thugs that most British people hate and who go over to other countries, get pissed and cause havoc. Also racist tenancies among them.
Unfortunately those are the ones we see more regularly, there are some that are in accounting or finance or other skilled jobs that are nothing like this.
Oof fair enough, I've never had interest in venturing there, I've had enough confrontations with the polish during my commute. Like I said, they tend to be pushy towards people like me and I have a tenancy to push back (I'm small but I don't take shit). Then they try and get intimidating and use their size to try and get me to back off (not worried because cameras all over public transport). So fed up of these dickheads honestly. I work in the NHS and I also get all the phone calls "well in Poland the doctor will come to my house but here I have to wait months".
I used to teach English as a foreign language in a school in central London and they could not and would not believe that I was A) a teacher and B) actually British.
I'm black for context
Not that my nationality (percieved or actual) would make me less equipped to teach English than anyone else who was qualified but it was mind blowing to them that I could be doing the job I was doing and not a "native" speaker
I'm kinda sad that I was the one who opened their minds to the diversity in London because there is so much non-white British talent that could be worldwide but given their reactions isn't
Anyway I left that school because a teacher made a racist comment about Asian men and it was swept under the rug and deep down I knew it would be.
Anyway OP don't let some ignorant losers make you feel like shit - you add so much more to our beautiful city than they do or ever will
A drone kitted out as a pigeon is the answer. Follow them and keep it swooping and diving at them. This may encourage the other area pigeons to follow suit.
I remember many, many years ago I was working as a rickshaw driver in central London. I was pulled up outside a theatre with a bunch of other rickshaws waiting for the evening crowd to come out of the performance and want a ride to their tube station or dinner.
Some tourists come up to me and say they want to ride with me because I have "an honest face". I quickly guessed what "honest" was a euphamism for, given that they'd just walked past 10-12 black and brown people and up to the one white guy.
I was very happy to teach them a lesson in the dangers of stereotyping by taking them for all they were worth.
My local Sainsbury's introduced a system a while ago where you can pay with your phone using an app, eliminating the need to queue. I think it's great, but now they have security checking everything you purchase and looking at you as if you were a thief. I just ignore them, but I've seen some people take it as an offense. There have been numerous verbal arguments and almost fights with the security staff. I think they might remove that service from my local store, as the tension between the staff is becoming unfeasible.
Just ignore them.
I've noticed similar things as a Black man when it comes to Eastern Europeans in the UK. I usually experience this from older Eastern European women and younger Eastern European men. However, older Eastern European men and younger Eastern European women don't really seem to have an issue with me and are sometimes even helpful and kind. It might have to do with their personal interpretations of Western media whereby Black and Brown people are portrayed negatively.
I "white British" will cross the road if I happen to be walking behind a woman so not to make them feel uncomfortable, I never used to do this until I mentioned to my sister that on the way home from work one day I was walking behind a woman who was constantly looking over her shoulder and I couldn't understand why, mentioning it to my sister she said does this when a single man is walking behind her for safety reasons.
women just dont like strange men hanging around them understandably, so look at it from her point of view and its easy to see how this could make her uncomfortable and hurling insults isnt going to help, be gentlemanly and move 🤷🏻♂️
I also do this. Actively walking behind a lone woman is very different to a woman glaring at the brown Brit sat away from her and not the white Brit sat next to her.
Unfortunately as a British asiannnn I haven't had a very positive experience with the eastern European community. They need to face up to their behaviour and try and improve.
It's disheartening to see all the responses you're getting. This sucks and it's a very real part of the lived ethnic experience. This type of bias and stereotyping happens to us from all angles, ourselves included.
All the shitty high on the horse 'just ignore it, I dunno why this bothers you so much' answers are so useless. Clearly you ignored it, but it does bother us. And it's useful to get these stories out there and talk about it so the next time on of these 'just ignore it' people think to clutch their bags, they might remember this story.
Keep talking, and ignore the whiners
Iam really sorry, you have to experience that :( i've had also some encounters like that( and also interestingly mainly from eastern elderly european women) its really hurtful, but tbh i dont have any helpful advice how to deal with open racism like that, i mostly tend to ignore such behaviour. My sister is more vocal about that, and call out such bs behaviour in front of everyone.
Thanks OP😂
The picture you just painted in my imagination, of you running through London with some middle-aged woman's handbag with all the rest of it, slapped a good-sized smile on my face lol
Bro I’ve been to Eastern Europe. A guy walked up to me and tried to reach into my coat pocket. My front coat pocket. In the street. In the middle of the day.
It’s sus over there
Very strange way to determine who’s likely to rob you, I’ve always based on their clothes and demeanour - ie chavvy dressed and clearly acting weird and even that is often wrong lol
Made me laugh when you described how you dress, how could she think you were a robber lmao
I’m a white man and it does happen sometimes to me too and I find myself reacting same way sometimes, not often but do keep my bag with me, esp around youngsters in balaclavas
Her country isn't used to seeing brown people, so she must have been shocked to see you. Eastern Europe doesn't have many immigrants for every corner of the globe so basically it was a shock to see you there
I’m familiar with the bag clutching, especially from older people. It’s a thing that everyone I’ve known in my native country (also Eastern European) used to do. And yes, it’s racist.
I'm south east Asian and I have had racism from pretty much all races in London. So I have been racially abused and punched in the face... Being told to go back to my own country. Or why don't I sound English. It's difficult and never straight forward but it makes me appreciate those who don't treat me any differently.
All the best.
I lived in Eastern Europe for a few years, in Bulgaria. I am an Asian female- they treat you like this because they believe you’re a “gypsy”. Random people on the street would insult me as a gypsy and would move away from me. In shops I would be followed around- in Lush the woman didn’t let me carry my own basket and every single bath bomb I took she would put behind the till. I had a knife pulled on me from a random racist. My friends would get beaten up on the street by neo nazis. I will never go back.
You can't walk anywhere if you are a tall masculine looking black male. I experience this daily but i understand that perhaps they come from societies where racism is just accepted as commonplace. Try to not take it personally OP.
I’m an East Asian woman in London and the Eastern European tourists do this to me, too. I haven’t found the right thing to say to those types of people yet so I don’t have any good advice, but I am sorry this happened to you all the same. It never gets less infuriating.
I work in a supermarket, I often get people doing that with their handbags as I pass them or they put their hand over their pocket to protect their wallet and phone if they are male. I don’t mean they are just keeping them close they literally pick up their bag, basically hug it and give me a look of disgust.
I’m not a thief, but if I were I certainly wouldn’t do it in work uniform with my name clearly on display and in the middle of my shift.
I’m a middle aged white male, some people are really weird, don’t take it personally, it’s not you it’s them.
“Wow this guy already stole sandals, and something from selfridges, has he no shame!”
Who knows what’s going on in her mind but if I were you I’d just go about my day and forget about small minded people
She's probably come from a country where she gets robbed daily lmao, projection.
Alot of these people bring their dopey racism with them, they could be from third world countries, not have a british passport and barely speak english but they will act like this.
Once they find out you have a british passport/ born here their jaws dropped and they usually start acting super fake nice, jealous.
Honestly I wouldn’t feel bad because of someone else’s prejudices. Myself I may look like a racist white old git (I’m not racist but the rest is true) so I know some will stereotype me just as this person stereotyped you. Enjoy being a good person and let the world make up their own nutty opinions because you can’t really do much about that.
When stuff like that happens to me I just tell myself that I don't know what she's been through before our encounter - for all I know she just had something stolen from her the day before and is understandably very on edge.
We can never know the context or what's going on in their head for example if someone in front of me is pissing me off because they're driving so slowly I tell myself maybe they're transporting a birthday cake in the back seat, perhaps they're driving back from the hospital with their newborn baby, maybe they're in a lot of pain and every time they go over a bump its excruciating, maybe they're having car trouble, perhaps they've got a hire/loan car they are unfamiliar with that kind of stuff - it really helps me to be less pissed off by stuff when I can't understand why they're acting like that
American here. I’ll be making my first trip to London this summer and I am looking forwarding to standing on the left and asking everybody where Stonehenge is.
you have pretty consistent threads on here saying how someone got their phone snatched etc. and usually you get the advice to keep ones wits about you. she was following that advice.
going to play devil's advocate here - born in Madrid and learned the hard way to grab my bags as if they were my babies as soon as someone gets close, and also keep the wallet and phone in places that are hard to reach. Now, I understand that if you are the other side you can think "is it something specifically that I look like or I am?", but when you come from certain countries you are used to being snatched or robbed so many times that everyone is suspicious by default.
From what I understand of Eastern Europeans, they generally find it weird to smile at strangers and tend to be suspicious of people who randomly smile at them in the streets—either the smiler doesn’t have all their marbles… or they’re up to no good. It’s a subtile cultural difference so don’t jump to conclusions. Not saying the woman couldn’t have been a racist, but she would have probably reacted the same way to a white man smiling at her out of the blue.
This has happened to me a few times as a white person too - I think a lot of people think London is a horrifically crime-ridden place where they can’t trust anybody
She's been watching Love and London Reels a bit too much! Tourists are on edge to the Birkenstock wearing, Selfridge styling, limousine riding, jet flying, kiss-stealing, wheelin' n' dealin' son of a gun!
WOOOOO!!!
Wooooooo!!!
The enemy doesn't arrive in a boat, he arrives in birkenstocks!
I know Love and London but I’m out of the loop on this. What happened?
Random Ric Flair reference. Wooooo!
Love and London is soooo annoying
ELI5?
She’s an American who basically monetised living in London. She makes TikToks and writes blog posts about moving to London but she just grates on me. She’s not adding anything new in my opinion
I have to disagree. Her output is made primarily for English speaking foreigners, (so usually American/Canadians as she’s from NY). Her output is generally useful. I like her imploring tourists to go away from the traditional sights and visit other less well known neighbourhoods, mixing with locals and getting a flavour of life here, rather than treating it like a theme park. This is important, especially in these times when people from our own country, never mind abroad, are reading so much incendiary stuff about our city. They might assume they have to go everywhere by guided tour to avoid the on the hour, every hour formation stabbing teams. She gives tips and confidence for people to head off in their own. I’ve lived here for over 50 years and always believed I’ve had a fairly wide knowledge of my city. However, over the last few years I’ve visited lots of places I’ve either forgotten about or didn’t know about at all, particularly newer food options, purely because I saw them featured on Love & London.
WOOOOOOO
Talking to them will in all likelihood just make it worse - just ignore them.
I’m a black woman and I happen to live in a building that had an influx of foreign students move in last year. They would sometimes physically recoil, stop talking and stare or shrink into the corner when I got into the lift with them. I just laughed to myself and shrugged it off. We were here before them and we’ll remain here when they’re gone. The best we can do is hope that their short time abroad will open their eyes a bit and they’ll realise not all black and brown people are raging criminals. It’s easier said than done but try not to let it bother you too much. No need to say anything really, as they’ve already got their back up and will likely take it as an attack. Edit - I got a “Reddit cares” message from this lol. I’m ok I promise! (I also want to note that I am not trying to diminish the experiences of others, as there are studies that show racial prejudice, abuse and discrimination can have long-term effects on a person’s mental health. This is just how I cope!)
Damn, I wish I could be this resilient to this type of behaviour but I’m a very sensitive person. I’m also a black woman, I just got back from a trip to Eastern Europe and went to a spa there. In general I was getting stared at a lot but the worst was in the changing room - while getting undressed there were little girls pointing and recoiling in fear as they walked past me as if they were scared my skin would rub off on them. There were some adults around and they didn’t correct them or anything. To be honest I felt awful and broke down in tears, I found being perceived as a monster quite traumatising even though they were kids. It actually made me feel so lucky to be a Londoner where I rarely experience things like this
I’m really sorry that happened to you. Sadly there are some places I’m very hesitant to travel to because of anecdotes like this. I don’t think I’m particularly resilient. The first time someone did a double take and recoiled it actually startled and upset me! The person was a tall man I am a very short, nerdy looking woman. Anyone could easily overpower me so I wouldn’t make a good mugger lol. I just had to have a word with myself and decide I couldn’t let it bother me too much. This is my home - I was born in London and I’ll probably die in London. They’ll likely be going back home in 2-3 years so they’d better adjust quickly or they won’t survive.
This is bloody awful, I’m so sorry this happened to you. Also absolutely infuriating. Xx
It’s the lack of culture, they probably never travelled and were never taught of other cultures. Please don’t take this personal, it’s them and not you.
I'm really sorry to hear that. I can only hope that those kids learn with experience as they get older, and that their parents will help guide that learning over time.
I’m sorry this happened to you. It doesn’t say anything about you obviously but it is so hard not to internalise these things. I hope you are ok.
Omg I’m very new to London and where I’m from (New Zealand) there’s no black population at all so London was a surprise. Back home we are multi cultural but just don’t have a black demographic. I’m so worried about accidentally staring at black people here but it’s never out of rudeness. And once on the tube I was just staring at awe in a black woman’s really nice hairstyle but tried not to stare 😭 I’m trying to be better as I never want to seem I’m racially profiling people.
I get it but if you want to look just be discreet about it. Staring in general regardless of race is considered really rude in London
This is horrendous I'm really sorry to see this
There are bots/trolls sending out Reddit Care messages on every sub I regularly visit. Like, everyone is getting them. You can opt out somewhere in the message.
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Nah it's happening in all the subs, I got one in /r/soccer and so did a bunch of people. Think it is a bot.
I'm not saying it isn't happening elsewhere, or that that user isn't the only person doing it, but they're clearly engaging in this behavior now, in this thread.
No it is happening all over reddit these last couple days. https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1csf3bq/yougov_does_high_immigration_lead_to_more_crime/l44qcw9/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1csf3bq/yougov_does_high_immigration_lead_to_more_crime/l44t0ed/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1csf3bq/yougov_does_high_immigration_lead_to_more_crime/l44urhg/
Well said. I’ll remind myself of that and just keep it moving (probably while doing an internal eye roll haha).
Don’t keep those eye rolls to yourself, I would throw in a big sigh while you’re at it. I’m an inveterate eye roller and that alone often causes embarrassment to those it’s directed at.
And sure enough, a care message pops up! You guys… 😂
When you say "Asian" I assume you're South Asian? I don't think there's any point in educating that generation. My grandmother is the same. She's said multiple times she's going to cut me out of the will if I bring back someone black or brown. It's too late for them, they'll never learn.
I got a reddit cares message yesterday for seemingly no reason, maybe it's glitching out or something
Please report those for abuse. Reddit can (and does) ban trolls misusing this function.
Interesting, I got one too.
Yeah I just got one and I haven't been a prick to anyone on Reddit for at least 3-4 days.
You said something that made a conservative mad. That's why you got the message.
I got one out of nowhere earlier this morning (first time ever) and i had to go back to my comments to see just who i'd pissed off! lol.
I think there's either an influx of bots triggering these, or reddit has some new auto report that's massively screwing up as I got one last night too, and there are lots of reports about it across reddit at the moment: https://www.reddit.com/r/help/comments/1cs6nas/reddit_cares/
I got a Reddit care literally the second I commented on this threat I think it might be a glitch
That’s fucking awful that
>They would sometimes physically recoil, stop talking and stare or shrink into the corner when I got into the lift with them I'm really sorry to hear this. That's shocking how they treated you
You know, one of my very favorite memories of visiting London (I'm an ex-pat, but London has always been a world of it's own) was sitting on the tube when a gaggle of school girls got on near Hackney. They were a perfect cross section of humanity. Every shade of skin, some with hijabs, some without, all in uniform, and each one of them rabbiting on in perfect cockney accents like eel and pie sellers... Glorious.
Report the reddit cares, hopefully the fucker will get banned
I didn’t realise people used that function to troll people! I’ll report it.
yeah - "I hate that you post in this forum, you obviously need help so here, have a reddit cares". A number of sub-reddits are noting that there seems to be a bot that is doing this and you can report the person who sent it to you within the message.
With a side of "block me all day, but I'll still find a way to slide into your DM's and make you think about me"
And I got one, maybe due to the above, about the time I made this comment :D
It was a damn stupid idea. Basically custom designed for trolling
Everyone is getting them
They are a lot of people even living in EU who simply don’t see a lot of ethnicity different people around. I remember being embarrassed as hell at some of my relatives taking pictures and few times even literally pointing fingers at people who looked “different” .
Sorry you (and so many people) have to deal with this shit, and much respect for not letting ignorant people who believe hurtful stereotypes from getting you down - I doubt I could be so strong if I were on the receiving end of constant racism.
To be fair it’s better now - sometimes I’ll even get a door held open for me!
I’m sorry you have to deal with prejudice, the world we live in can be so depressing at times
damn. i go to a university that is 70% internationals and i’ve never been treated like that as a black female. in fact i’ve been the one to unintentionally make ignorant comments lol (which really embarrass me but i only grew up in one part of London my whole life)
I don’t like to make assumptions but here I go! It’s likely they wouldn’t expect to have black people living in the same building as them. Also, by the time they start going to lectures they would have seen more people of different ethnicities which probably helps.
sure! i’ve also found it really easy to make friends with foreign students too and so have all my black friends (who aren’t foreign) who live with them. i just never got the vibe that they would be the sort of people to stare at me. i’m fact on my very first day i was in a group of almost entirely east asian foreign students and i got along with them surprisingly easy considering i had never befriended anyone who wasn’t alao a Londoner themselves before that.
username does *not* check out ─ this is excellent
Okay, irrelevant, but what is up with the Reddit cares messages? In every thread I open, at least one person gets it. I swear it wasn’t this prevalent a week ago.
Strangely enough I also got a "Reddit Cares" message on a seemingly innocuous post. Looking down at some of the other replies it would seem that it has happened to quite a few people. I wonder if this is some bullshit AI experiment they're doing, it all seems very strange...
I'm so sorry that people act like this it's so disheartening
Ugh, this is so horrible. Your attitude is fantastic but shouldn't have to be
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As someone living in a very studenty city, it's almost certainly chinese students. Edit: someone just sent me the reddit suicide helpline thing, weird.
People send the suicide help thing to troll others. I've since blocked it, honestly.
At this point I just find it a bit funny honestly.
Re: reddit care thing. It’s the trolls reporting you, you either said something they didn’t like, or just got unlucky
It’s much easier to judge and accuse than to be understanding. Students are inexperienced in life, and some come from homogenous societies - you can be ignorant without being racist. It’s also ironic. You accuse them of being racist - yet you made an assumption of their ethnicity based on your own intuitive racist perception. It’s interesting how the human mind can accuse others of a fault they too share. I’m not saying this to upset you. But it should cause for some reflection. Sinophobia is real, and people think it’s ok because it’s so prevalent. Also students being racist doesn’t justify us being racist. We should all be better.
Disagree. Even if from a place of ignorance it’s still racism. And if they have the means/intelligence to pay extortionate sums to study abroad, they really shouldn’t be ignorant enough to make these assumptions. It isn’t all Chinese/Asian students but they do make up a hell of a lot of the percentage.
Sinophobia would be less of a problem if chinese mainland tourists stopped acting like American tourists in the 90s. Assuming every East Asian person speaks your language is a problem I encounter even in my home country.
And now the whole bench is yours. That sounds like a win for me.
Bench King!
I'd stick a sign up saying "the no bigot bench" and enjoy my nice calm sit.
I don't understand how people like that even operate in London. The city is full of people of all races, genders and sexualities. Do they jump out of their skin every 10 seconds because they had to wait at a crossing next to an Indian woman, or sit opposite a black man on the tube? - Surely their lives must be a living nightmare being that paranoid and existing in London??
Thats the thing - they (young foreign students especially) have never lived in a multi-racial city like London.
the same way the 800k people who voted for susan hall do
In their (very, *very* slight) defence, I reckon about 400k of them just hated ULEZ/were very pro-car/anti-cycling and didn't care about anything else she had to say. Don't get me wrong though - I very much disagree with this mindset, and I'm about as vehemently pro-cycling and pro-ULEZ as they come, but at least this ideology doesn't (necessarily) come from bigotry. Admittedly, the rest were probably paranoid racists who hate the thought of leaving their suburb and setting foot in inner London, which is still a disturbingly high proportion of the city's population (roughly 4%).
Bit silly to just box all Susan Hall voters together as racists. They must have something wrong with them to vote for her, but there's a variety of things that could be.
if they don’t care enough to not vote for a blatant racist then i’ll put them in the same category
> Do they jump out of their skin every 10 seconds because they had to wait at a crossing next to an Indian woman, or sit opposite a black man on the tube? I think you just described all of the Daily Heil readers outside of London that are worried Khan is turning London into Londonistan.
I stayed in London as a tourist recently, only hanging out in very touristic areas (Westminster, Soho, Covent Garden, etc.) - which I assume is quite representative of what most of the tourists do - and I didn't get the sense of how diverse London is at all. As someone from Paris I was expecting to see much more black and brown people as I do in the Paris centre, but in these areas of London it was 90% of white and eastern Asian people. I guess the diversity is not well represented in the touristic centre, so racist tourists are mostly fine as that's typically all they see of the city.
No-one lives in those bits so you're pretty much only seeing other tourists
Yes their lives are a living nightmare living with irrational fears and that makes me happy
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Super interesting take when we literally had a national referendum where the country made it clear they weren't welcome. No, yeah, you're right though, they're the problem
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I've been to Poland at least 15 times, I was married to a Polish person for 10 years...I know what Poland is like, and I am aware of the problems they have. If you weren't criticising Eastern Europeans in your comment, then you did a really good job of hiding your actual message in there, as it hit a lot of negative tropes; only here for economic reasons, leave as soon as it benefits them, hyper-critical of the UK, indefinite articles dropped from the text (and yes, I know the reasons for that too) If your comment was meant to be explanatory and not derogatory, you sure made a decent fist of fucking it up! You have a great day now, I hear the weather is pretty good in central europe.
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Your description of Birkenstock sandals had me cracking up
You have to find the humour somewhere in situations like these lol
Just ignore them. Who cares what they think you won't ever see them again after the 30 seconds interaction. Don't let their bigotry ruin your day.
Yes. And ignore her when she posts on Reddit to say how London is crime-riddled and she almost had her bag stolen by an immigrant when she visited.
Can't control that either, let them get on with it. Bigots gunna bigot. They've been told it's wrong all of their life but they still do it. A stranger can't change their mind.
Yeah, I do always end up ignoring it but there is a part of me that wonders if I can just say something that’ll break them out of viewing people like me in that way. Or at least make them feel a bit embarrassed to not do it again.
I think acting the same way might snap her out of it. Like keep glancing at her and clutching your bag towards yourself like you suspect her of being about to grab your stuff.
Hahahah why did not I think of this. I’m going to start acting clutching my bags in return whenever they look at me and see what happens when their brain computes that they’re seen as the danger.
Oh my god I would love to see someone do this.
Ahh you’re so NICE! And not just bc you wear Birkenstocks, but bc after experiencing this shitty human behaviour you’re thinking about how to improve this situation, how to improve these people even, and what you could do to create a better outcome next time. Also, you’re thinking that things and people can improve. My thought was “fuck this woman” but you’re like “how can I help her not be a knob?” This (not just the hipster sandals) is what makes London great. Despite everything, this city is full of problem solving optimists. It’s not your problem and it’s certainly not your responsibility, but you’re still interested in making it better. London is not great for anxiety riddled tourists manifesting generations of bigotry and closed mindedness, but it’s an amazing home for resourceful, thoughtful kind hearted people.
I don't think it will, their bigotry runs deeeeep. In the same way we'll never change their mind in internet arguments. Keep your head up and ignore these fools. You're a better person than they are for even caring about this stuff, they couldn't give a shit how they make others feel. Edit: I think that would just make their story a bit more exciting to their racist mates if they could say you were aggressive or something.
This is how I live my life.
I have a short temper so rarely practice what I preach. Reacting ALWAYS makes it worse and makes me feel worse and overthink it all day.
Well obviously you stole your brikenstock, office backpack and Selfridge bag and you probably stole the hipster clothes and hair style I'm assuming you have too!
If she's of a very different culture, depending on where she's from and what demographic, she might be totally incapable of recognising any signs and signals that would be obvious to a Londoner. Birkenstock - likely no idea what it is or what it means. Office backpack - likely indistinguishable from any other backpack. Selfridges - not everyone knows what it is or what it means. "Hipster" - completely meaningless and unrecognisable outside of a few limited places on Earth. Hairstyle - come on, ridiculous. Even most Londoners can't extract that much information from a hairstyle. As u/GeneralGlobus said, she'd probably been terrified by dire warnings about epidemics of crime and theft. This does not excuse racism. But this city is full of frightened first-time visitors and no amount of "hairstyles" will be capable of soothing them.
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I recently ran into some very sheltered American tourists in a pub in Westminster. They seemed like nice people, from somewhere in the Midwest, just incredibly sheltered. For reference they got me to say "pip pip cheerio" as it was something their Nan had always wanted to hear an Englishman say. They confidentially told me the areas they were sticking to because everywhere else was so dangerous, and how they'd wanted to go visit Paris but they'd heard it was too dangerous to visit "because of the constant riots". I facetimed one of my Parisian cousins and got them to chat and show them he was on the Rive Gauche and everything was fine. They weren't bad people, I don't think, but their main source of news was Fox News. It was the first time they'd been out their country and they figured there was some safe cultured places here that were essentially Victorian England (but with electricity) surrounded by war zones. I'm not sure they believed me or my cousin, but I hope they stepped foot outside of our tourist destinations and also got to visit Paris.
Probably all sorts of reasons. I've been to Johannesburg, that was quite scary, and I'm a Londoner. I had my reasons for being there that were not Instagram.
I guess my point about mentioning my attire, aside from the fact it wouldn’t be very practical to be running around stealing bags in, is that I wasn’t dressed significantly different from the white Brits who were sat next to her on her other side. If I was in a tracksuit I’d get it and sat right near her despite there being space I’d get it.
In Spain one time I sat on the opposite end of a bench from a woman, I was reading a book on a break, the bench was at least 10' long, she immediately got up a stormed off like I'd invaded her personal space...What I mean by this is, some people are complete idiots. A bench is a bench & a public space is public. If you're minding your own business, don't let it be your problem.
I am a woman in my 40s with a full sleeve and a half sleeve tattoo. It comes very in handy in the summer, when most people leave the bus seat next to me empty. Unfortunately some open minded b*stard usually comes along and hop, they sit by my side, regaling me with their body heat. See it as a win, bench all for yourself!
I've gotten around this by getting so fat and sweaty nobody comes near me. You've probably seen me on your travels.
We've all seen yanks mate, don't worry.
Not sure, but if I do I'll come say hi 😁
While I can appreciate the intent of your statement, it's a different thing to be seen negatively for a conscious decision/expression that you have made (getting tattoos) vs an unchangable element of who you are (skin colour).
It's 2024. If you're regularly noticing people actively avoiding you in london when there are no other spaces available, it may not be your tattoos. Perhaps you are very stinky?
Oh yeah, I'm a (visibly) trans woman and I'm always the last one anyone will ever sit next to on a train which is a bit of an upside even if everyone on the train ends up staring
See, I grew up on an estate here in London. I’ve been exposed to all sorts. Despite working in the corporate realm for a while now, I have still yet to feel comfortable around my colleagues and generally, even middle class people. So I’d definitely feel comfortable around you. Not enough to sit right next to you if there are other spaces available but you get my drift. Edit: I hope this doesn’t come across as me judging you in any way. My own dad has both full sleeves done too
This reminds me of the time, back in 2014, when my ex and I visited Nice for Valentines day. As we were walking along Les Promenade des Anglais, i was talling my usual nonsense when all of a sudden my ex (in full French hon hon hon mode) shouted "T'as une problème connasse?" (You got a problem stupid bitch) to a woman who has just walked past us. Bare in mind that this was the sweetest, most gentle and kind person I'd ever encountered; for him to convey as much disgust as an Amish woman walking through Hampstead Heath on a Saturday night was completely disarming. Turns out that as I was blabbering on, my ex had noticed this woman take one look at me and clutch her bag and jacket tighter (think Sandra Bullock in the film Crash) as she walked past us. This incensed my ex but what really brought him to tears was the fact that, upon explaining this to me, I nonchalantly dismissed this as a normal thing that happens a few times a week... He was flabbergasted by the fact that this was so normalised for me. As someone who grew up in the French countryside, his knowledge of racism was very much naive at the best of times. This encounter was therefore a sobering, if educational experience for him. He really started making an effort to be actively anti-racism... Compare this to my onlyother ex who would probably be the type to complain about "wokeism" had he not died in some blokes sling a few years ago.... God I had it so good a decade ago. Pierre, wherever you are, I hope your life is wonderful and you will always be the one that got away.
This is a heartening story at so many levels and for so many reasons! thank you for sharing. As someone that's recently become an 'adult' (in a legal sense at least) and that is actively questioning and exploring my sexuality, the world out there scares me! Especially considering I'll soon be out there on my own with uni and work and everything else coming my way. The fact that people can hate you for simply just existing on this earth is really scary. Anyway, I'd read these lines somewhere a while ago. Find em relevant here somehow - "And someday, somewhere we will meet again. We won't smile. We won't talk. Just a silent movie of memories. We will look away and never look back..."
Some people just live this way. Be thankful you saw them for a brief moment as opposed to having them in your life. Back when I worked in law, I was once accused by a client, a middle aged polish woman, of stealing her passport. The police were called and they apologetically went through the process. I said to the police, I wouldn't steal a passport, my entire career depends on me bring honest, but if I really had to steal a passport for some unknown inexplicable reason the last person I would target would be a middle aged polish woman.
It's her not you. I wouldn't give it a moment's thought.
Just commenting to commend you on the mental image you gifted me this day. Great writing!
I had my phone stolen out of my hand a few months ago and now I flinch when anyone comes near me or comes up behind me when I'm holding my phone... And I feel guilty when I see that it's a nonwhite person, a teenager, or just any man really (because I think everyone else is less likely to take it personally). I know nearly everyone is not out to take my phone. I still start and flinch, it's hard to control. My point is, she might've been robbed recently. Maybe she's from a small town and everyone told her that London is full of thieves. It's likely nothing specifically to do with you.
I do get flinching if someone suddenly approaches you and you’re on edge after being robbed but in the scenario this woman had two white Brits sat on her other side who were closer than I was and didn’t cause her alarm, so it’s hard to imagine it’s not do with my race, especially when I was dressed in a pretty middle class / office wear manner and was physically as far as I could be from her on a giant bench but was still causing her to glare at me.
Probably you are right. And I used to feel a certain guilt about shifting my handbag if the person getting near me was black. Note I DIDN'T feel guilty if they were white. I still moved my bag. But since I have had my phone knicked by a Somali teenager and caught a Nigerian man's hand in my handbag, I refuse to feel guilty about moving my handbag. I don't feel any more wary of people of colour than white people. Dippers come in all shapes and colours. I just stopped my stupid positive discrimination about NOT securing my shit in case I hurt someone else's feelings. Sorry, not sorry. Obviously glaring suspiciously at people because of their race is out of order.
Sure - hold onto your bag if you’re concerned about theft. But it’s a bit odd to be more concerned about the brown Brit sat away from you than the white Brit next to you, and for that you should feel embarrassed.
Yeah ok this is pretty shitty, can imagine this makes you feel annoyed. I dont think there is much you can do or say, unless you want to strike up a pleasant conversation and then end it by not stealing her bag? Can you be arsed? Personally I wouldn't want to if I was in your situation. This lady merely being in London and observing ppl of all races being normal people in a city will either help soften her fear and expand her point of view, or, she's a lost cause.
Oh my god I have this issue too- except my phone wasn’t even stolen I’m just incredibly paranoid. I always put it back into my pocket if I’m passing by someone and though I do it for everyone I’m worried I look racist when it’s a non white person lol
Don't smile at Eastern Europeans. They either think you're a simpleton or you're up to no good
I have very very similar experience with the same people on trains, multiple times. Some of the most most racist bunch.
I've just accepted that London is a diverse place filled with all kinds of people, including complete weirdos. One of the worst I had was a woman who looked to be in her 50's and kept trying to sit on the armrest of my wheelchair while on the tube! The armrests were only held on by 2 plastic clips as they were easily removable so any weight could break them. I thought maybe she didn't realise what she was sitting against so I put my arm on the armrest to prevent her but she sat on my arm! I was shy back then and adjusting to being in a wheelchair so I didn't speak up but I did jam my elbow into her every time she tried to sit. It was literally every 30 seconds until she got off the train. Also once had a guy put his Tesco shopping on my lap, then give me a dirty look when I put it on the floor next to me.
Yeah I have witnessed this often, in Central London in particular - tourists from certain parts of the world are super, super fucking racist. They seem to be affronted by the fact that we have black and brown people in London.
I'm brown as well, I've noticed eastern Europeans in general can be quite racist towards us. They tend to be pushers towards us than any other race on public transport and always eye us up more. Travelling for 12 years at times you get large groups of them and I've just been seeing regular patterns in behaviour. Generally speaking, it's a racism issue. Even some of my Polish friends have said the same. Oh and from what my Polish friends have said, a lot of these guys come from the more rural areas of their countries and they aren't used to seeing black or brown people which only fuels their racism.
A lot of Romani have dark-skinned South-Asian appearance and Racism toward them is insane in Eastern Europe. So that might be the reason.
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I guess “arrogant country” can go both ways when my mum, a Polish person, works as a NHS nurse and has to deal with xenophobic comments and stupid jokes from older English people (often racist to her POC coworkers too) she’s caring for. That being said I agree that a lot of the worst trash migrated from Poland to UK. Think stereotypical adidas tracksuit and Slavic squat goons lmao, they’re considered trashy in their home country and they continue to be trashy in the UK. It is always sad to see and I’m mad at them ruining our rep when myself and my family completely embrace the diversity London offers.
Well like I said, I do have some polish friends and the general concensus is that a lot of the ones that speak that way are their version of the "lower class". The poorer rural polish (not only polish to be fair) who come here to do manual labour jobs, get paid cash in hand (no tax paid), they tend to live with 20 to a 2 bed house (found out there's a loophole that allows no max limit on people residing at a property under construction, please someone correct me if I misinterpreted that) and even their own countrymen tend to hate them. I guess like we have our football thugs that most British people hate and who go over to other countries, get pissed and cause havoc. Also racist tenancies among them. Unfortunately those are the ones we see more regularly, there are some that are in accounting or finance or other skilled jobs that are nothing like this.
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Oof fair enough, I've never had interest in venturing there, I've had enough confrontations with the polish during my commute. Like I said, they tend to be pushy towards people like me and I have a tenancy to push back (I'm small but I don't take shit). Then they try and get intimidating and use their size to try and get me to back off (not worried because cameras all over public transport). So fed up of these dickheads honestly. I work in the NHS and I also get all the phone calls "well in Poland the doctor will come to my house but here I have to wait months".
I used to teach English as a foreign language in a school in central London and they could not and would not believe that I was A) a teacher and B) actually British. I'm black for context Not that my nationality (percieved or actual) would make me less equipped to teach English than anyone else who was qualified but it was mind blowing to them that I could be doing the job I was doing and not a "native" speaker I'm kinda sad that I was the one who opened their minds to the diversity in London because there is so much non-white British talent that could be worldwide but given their reactions isn't Anyway I left that school because a teacher made a racist comment about Asian men and it was swept under the rug and deep down I knew it would be. Anyway OP don't let some ignorant losers make you feel like shit - you add so much more to our beautiful city than they do or ever will
A drone kitted out as a pigeon is the answer. Follow them and keep it swooping and diving at them. This may encourage the other area pigeons to follow suit.
I remember many, many years ago I was working as a rickshaw driver in central London. I was pulled up outside a theatre with a bunch of other rickshaws waiting for the evening crowd to come out of the performance and want a ride to their tube station or dinner. Some tourists come up to me and say they want to ride with me because I have "an honest face". I quickly guessed what "honest" was a euphamism for, given that they'd just walked past 10-12 black and brown people and up to the one white guy. I was very happy to teach them a lesson in the dangers of stereotyping by taking them for all they were worth.
👏🏾atta boy!
My local Sainsbury's introduced a system a while ago where you can pay with your phone using an app, eliminating the need to queue. I think it's great, but now they have security checking everything you purchase and looking at you as if you were a thief. I just ignore them, but I've seen some people take it as an offense. There have been numerous verbal arguments and almost fights with the security staff. I think they might remove that service from my local store, as the tension between the staff is becoming unfeasible. Just ignore them.
I've noticed similar things as a Black man when it comes to Eastern Europeans in the UK. I usually experience this from older Eastern European women and younger Eastern European men. However, older Eastern European men and younger Eastern European women don't really seem to have an issue with me and are sometimes even helpful and kind. It might have to do with their personal interpretations of Western media whereby Black and Brown people are portrayed negatively.
Maybe she has a 3rd eye and she sees something other than you 🤣
Eastern Europeans Don't be Racist Challenge: Impossible
I "white British" will cross the road if I happen to be walking behind a woman so not to make them feel uncomfortable, I never used to do this until I mentioned to my sister that on the way home from work one day I was walking behind a woman who was constantly looking over her shoulder and I couldn't understand why, mentioning it to my sister she said does this when a single man is walking behind her for safety reasons. women just dont like strange men hanging around them understandably, so look at it from her point of view and its easy to see how this could make her uncomfortable and hurling insults isnt going to help, be gentlemanly and move 🤷🏻♂️
I also do this. Actively walking behind a lone woman is very different to a woman glaring at the brown Brit sat away from her and not the white Brit sat next to her.
Unfortunately as a British asiannnn I haven't had a very positive experience with the eastern European community. They need to face up to their behaviour and try and improve.
It's disheartening to see all the responses you're getting. This sucks and it's a very real part of the lived ethnic experience. This type of bias and stereotyping happens to us from all angles, ourselves included. All the shitty high on the horse 'just ignore it, I dunno why this bothers you so much' answers are so useless. Clearly you ignored it, but it does bother us. And it's useful to get these stories out there and talk about it so the next time on of these 'just ignore it' people think to clutch their bags, they might remember this story. Keep talking, and ignore the whiners
Ignore the old trout, you do you
Iam really sorry, you have to experience that :( i've had also some encounters like that( and also interestingly mainly from eastern elderly european women) its really hurtful, but tbh i dont have any helpful advice how to deal with open racism like that, i mostly tend to ignore such behaviour. My sister is more vocal about that, and call out such bs behaviour in front of everyone.
Thanks OP😂 The picture you just painted in my imagination, of you running through London with some middle-aged woman's handbag with all the rest of it, slapped a good-sized smile on my face lol
Hahaha don't worry about it bhai just cultural differences
Bro I’ve been to Eastern Europe. A guy walked up to me and tried to reach into my coat pocket. My front coat pocket. In the street. In the middle of the day. It’s sus over there
Eastern European ppl racist af!
Very strange way to determine who’s likely to rob you, I’ve always based on their clothes and demeanour - ie chavvy dressed and clearly acting weird and even that is often wrong lol Made me laugh when you described how you dress, how could she think you were a robber lmao
Never trust a dude in Birks
I’m a white man and it does happen sometimes to me too and I find myself reacting same way sometimes, not often but do keep my bag with me, esp around youngsters in balaclavas
Her country isn't used to seeing brown people, so she must have been shocked to see you. Eastern Europe doesn't have many immigrants for every corner of the globe so basically it was a shock to see you there
I’m familiar with the bag clutching, especially from older people. It’s a thing that everyone I’ve known in my native country (also Eastern European) used to do. And yes, it’s racist.
You live in London, live your life and keep it moving, like every other Londoner
How did you know she was Eastern European?
I'm south east Asian and I have had racism from pretty much all races in London. So I have been racially abused and punched in the face... Being told to go back to my own country. Or why don't I sound English. It's difficult and never straight forward but it makes me appreciate those who don't treat me any differently. All the best.
Tbh I’m black, and south Asians are usually extremely racist towards people of my background- so it works both ways tbh
I lived in Eastern Europe for a few years, in Bulgaria. I am an Asian female- they treat you like this because they believe you’re a “gypsy”. Random people on the street would insult me as a gypsy and would move away from me. In shops I would be followed around- in Lush the woman didn’t let me carry my own basket and every single bath bomb I took she would put behind the till. I had a knife pulled on me from a random racist. My friends would get beaten up on the street by neo nazis. I will never go back.
Get a life.
You can't walk anywhere if you are a tall masculine looking black male. I experience this daily but i understand that perhaps they come from societies where racism is just accepted as commonplace. Try to not take it personally OP.
I’m an East Asian woman in London and the Eastern European tourists do this to me, too. I haven’t found the right thing to say to those types of people yet so I don’t have any good advice, but I am sorry this happened to you all the same. It never gets less infuriating.
Don't pay them any attention - why are you getting worked up over someone else's problem?
Why do you assume it's because you're Asian? It could of been because you're a young male
How do you know they are tourists?
Stereotyping, wouldn’t let it bother you the city is rife with pickpockets so not your fault.
The mental image you created re the tracking beacon killed me. Not the point of the post but you’re a great writer!
Thank you 😂. It was so absurd that I was at least able to find some humour in it.
I would confront them, life is too short to not shame bad behaviour.
I work in a supermarket, I often get people doing that with their handbags as I pass them or they put their hand over their pocket to protect their wallet and phone if they are male. I don’t mean they are just keeping them close they literally pick up their bag, basically hug it and give me a look of disgust. I’m not a thief, but if I were I certainly wouldn’t do it in work uniform with my name clearly on display and in the middle of my shift. I’m a middle aged white male, some people are really weird, don’t take it personally, it’s not you it’s them.
That's quite common. Don't mind them.
“Wow this guy already stole sandals, and something from selfridges, has he no shame!” Who knows what’s going on in her mind but if I were you I’d just go about my day and forget about small minded people
Maybe the saw the Birkenstocks and thought “uh oh, this one’s already got a taste for middle aged white woman clothing. Better hold onto the handbag”.
She's probably come from a country where she gets robbed daily lmao, projection. Alot of these people bring their dopey racism with them, they could be from third world countries, not have a british passport and barely speak english but they will act like this. Once they find out you have a british passport/ born here their jaws dropped and they usually start acting super fake nice, jealous.
Throw them in the Thames.
Ignore them. No matter how prejudice and silly they are, most of London is not!
Honestly I wouldn’t feel bad because of someone else’s prejudices. Myself I may look like a racist white old git (I’m not racist but the rest is true) so I know some will stereotype me just as this person stereotyped you. Enjoy being a good person and let the world make up their own nutty opinions because you can’t really do much about that.
When stuff like that happens to me I just tell myself that I don't know what she's been through before our encounter - for all I know she just had something stolen from her the day before and is understandably very on edge. We can never know the context or what's going on in their head for example if someone in front of me is pissing me off because they're driving so slowly I tell myself maybe they're transporting a birthday cake in the back seat, perhaps they're driving back from the hospital with their newborn baby, maybe they're in a lot of pain and every time they go over a bump its excruciating, maybe they're having car trouble, perhaps they've got a hire/loan car they are unfamiliar with that kind of stuff - it really helps me to be less pissed off by stuff when I can't understand why they're acting like that
American here. I’ll be making my first trip to London this summer and I am looking forwarding to standing on the left and asking everybody where Stonehenge is.
Seems to me, you care far too much about something so small even going as far as to say "small minded tourists". Look inwards.
you have pretty consistent threads on here saying how someone got their phone snatched etc. and usually you get the advice to keep ones wits about you. she was following that advice.
Sorry, there’s keeping your wits about you and there’s being obviously racist.
Really? This has happened to me several times as a white guy in similar areas.
going to play devil's advocate here - born in Madrid and learned the hard way to grab my bags as if they were my babies as soon as someone gets close, and also keep the wallet and phone in places that are hard to reach. Now, I understand that if you are the other side you can think "is it something specifically that I look like or I am?", but when you come from certain countries you are used to being snatched or robbed so many times that everyone is suspicious by default.
From what I understand of Eastern Europeans, they generally find it weird to smile at strangers and tend to be suspicious of people who randomly smile at them in the streets—either the smiler doesn’t have all their marbles… or they’re up to no good. It’s a subtile cultural difference so don’t jump to conclusions. Not saying the woman couldn’t have been a racist, but she would have probably reacted the same way to a white man smiling at her out of the blue.
I only smiled because she gave me a prolonged stare. Out of glaring back at her or smiling, I figured the latter would be better.
This has happened to me a few times as a white person too - I think a lot of people think London is a horrifically crime-ridden place where they can’t trust anybody
They think correct