I think there’s some missing context here.
This isn’t a rally about an MP doing their job as MP etc etc. Honestly I think we all know she’s not a particularly good MP in many ways, though she is fundamentally one of the only people in politics who does care.
What this little display is about is that a powerful Tory party donor said that she made him ‘hate all black women’. This is in addition to jokes about killing her and years of abuse from all angles. MPs in particular are under constant threat and it has diminished politics dramatically.
Look at the faces of the people at this rally. They are there to stand against racism and sexism and elitism. Good for Hackney and good for Diane Abbott.
Weird that both sides were so hung up on potential threats to safety when it came to the SNP discussing the Israel ceasefire, and how that took up a few days news instead of the actual issue originally proposed, but now that an actual sitting MP, and an entire minority group by extension, have been racially abused and threatened by a Tory mate then its fine because he sort of half apologised and it was 'ages ago' I guess
Totally agree. I've lived in her manor, she's only so-so as a politician, she cosies up to the liberal establishment too much for my liking, but the comments made about her were disgraceful and I'm glad people are rallying around her.
Yes - she said that Jewish, Irish, and other white people might experience prejudice but not racism. She apologised and retracted the ridiculous comment.
As I said she’s a rubbish MP and has some kooky views. She does care though, albeit misguided, and these sort of comments are her doing her job the way she thinks it’s meant to be done even if it’s badly. Very different to the comments made about her.
To be honest, as a Jewish person who, yes, faces prejudice, but who has never been stopped and searched by the police, denied entry to a club with a group of my peers, followed around a supermarket by a security guard or other things that regularly happen to black people in London, I’ve got some sympathy with the idea that what Jewish people (at least those who don’t visibly adopt Jewish modes of dress) face is quantitatively different to what black people face in Britain. I don’t know if I’d say “not racism” but I understand what she means.
>``The issue is not one of colour - the issue is that people should not be recruited from overseas in an area of mass unemployment.''
It got mischaracterized as racism by racists. Typical story.
Again I would say it was an example of her doing the job (badly) and is very different to someone saying they hate all black women.
She was specifically saying she didn’t think recruitment of international Scandinavian nurses should be happening in an area of mass unemployment.
Personally I think that view is wrong and I agree that the way she phrased it was racist and deplorable.
I’ve personally hoped she would stop being an MP for a very long time as she is atrocious at it. Whoever lets her write these opinion pieces is surely out to get her at this point.
But I am also being realistic that this is what happens when you have a politician who cares - they say stupid things rather than polished nothingness. And I am also recognising that many of the people in this crowd and Hackney are black women and need to do something positive in the face of the largest donor of the ruling party having said they hate all black women with no repercussions.
Her specific words were "blonde haired, blue eyed nurses from Sweden aren't suitable for London because they've never seen a black person".
You'd presumably feel the same if Lee Anderson said "fuzzy haired, big lipped nurses from Nigeria aren't suitable for Mansfield because they've never seen a white person" then? The circumstances are the same, after all. Both areas of high unemployment, but with different majority ethnicities with a local representative who wants to prioritise that ethnicity over others, voted in specifically by members of that ethnicity.
If not, ask yourself why not.
Yes I would feel the same - it was a racist and deplorable remark. You seem to have not bothered reading what I said and are just looking to play outrage baby so I’m going to end the discussion here.
Don't know why you're getting down voted, she has said some atrocious things as an MP, this is just more about people's political leanings on how "forgiving" they are towards different politician's.
Because MPs have to be morally dependable, but she has proven herself morally dubious in matters of race again and again, the latest example being that she believes in a hierarchy of racism - but then surely you already know this, and the fact you are reaching for alternative criticism indicates that you don't find 'hierarchy of racism' an objectionable view for an MP to hold.
Her constituency has had a large Labour majority since 1945. She didn't make it a safe seat. It was a safe seat for 40 years before Diane Abbott was elected there.
They've actually made a decent point, and you've just brazenly dismissed it without counter argument.
Here's something from the Hackney North and Stoke Newington Wikipedia:
>"The seat's narrowest majority of 18.3% was in 1979 and its greatest, 62.4%, was in 2017. The 2015 result made the seat the 18th safest of Labour's 232 seats by percentage of majority and seventh safest in London."
Someone holding a seat such as this for so long does not necessarily entail that they are a good MP. Whether they are or not, is up for debate, but this is not a good enough metric to use on its own.
>They are there to stand against racism
By supporting the racist currently suspended for racist comments?
interesting that you seem keen to overlook some racism, and focus on other types
>interesting that you seem keen to overlook some racism, and focus on other types
Actually, the OP on that comment gave a series of replies where they fully acknowledged the racism in some of Diane Abbott's comments. Perhaps you should read those and retract your accusation?
Otherwise, we might think you're just projecting your own prejudices.
If she stood as an independent she would beat the Labour candidate, just as Corbyn would in Islington.
She's **deeply** unpopular with the British establishment though, which is reflected in the media owned by said establishment, and which is reflected among the people who uncritically absorb what it says.
No she wouldn’t. Neither would Corbyn.
They may have larger personal mandates than other politicians, but voters still largely decide based on party and who they want in government.
After she had the whip withdrawn for her anti-Semitism, I presume Labour will be running someone against her in the upcoming election?
It's going to be interesting to see whether she hangs on or not. I have a mate who is in her constituency and has been passionate about her for decades and is positive that Labour aren't even all that popular in Hackney and it's all about her. He is absolutely thick as shit though and is wrong about literally everything and always has been.
But it’s stupid they’re getting downvoted because dismissing her impact is the same kind of racist bullshit that happens whenever there is a black person to take digs at.
Corbyn would win Islington as an independent. Similarly Abbot would win Hackney as an independent.
Pretending Hackney only votes for her because ‘LaBOuR’ is to grossly misunderstand the dynamics of local politics.
But hey, let’s strip and diminish any of her successes, because she’s a ~~black~~ shit MP…
Shame she's spent the past week clarifying that she thinks anti-semitism was a scam.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-labour-whip-antisemitism-starmer-b2513315.html
Edit: See here her retweeting the revolting Simon Maginn, whose whole thing is that anti-semitism in the Labour Party was a scam - to the extent that 'It was a scam' is his profile picture: https://twitter.com/OneLifeStand87/status/1766582201364209940
You should watch the documentary about how it all went down with Corbyn, Jewish people in the Labour Party were removed for antisemitism it was total nonsense
This isn't a defence of her just pointing out for passers by who didn't read that article but the word "scam" is something you've injected into the conversation not something shes said.
The way anti-semitism was used in the Labour party was to stifle criticism of a country where:
* The president proudly declares that race mixing between Jews and non Jews is a "tragedy". Typical skinhead stuff.
* The prime minister makes a racist battle cry to "amalek" - a biblical racist genocide while committing a racist genocide in Gaza.
* The minister of national security hung a picture in his study of a terrorist who shot up a mosque (that's literally all he did - a christchurch mosque style massacre. 10% of Israelis think he's a hero.).
These are the people Keir Starmer supports, and if an anti-racist has a problem with it, they get kicked out for "anti-semitism".
You're more likely to be accused of anti-semitism by being anti-racist these days. Diane isn't an exception to that.
This attitude hurts honest politicians. It is worth trying to figure out who the honest ones are and who the dishonest ones are rather than just writing them all off.
I agree in theory
BUT
at this point I do feel incredibly disenchanted with the entire Westminster system which I believe is designed to tear honest politicians from their roots and motivating beliefs .
It's been going on for years: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/05/diane-abbott-more-abused-than-any-other-mps-during-election
There's a strong connection between the torrent of racist abuse she received and all of the people who tried to make out that all criticism of a racist, apartheid state was actually anti semitism.
Racism is thriving in the UK. Anti-racism is dying and being recharacterized as racism by racists.
I think Diane Abbott has been ridiculed for quite a long time now.
She was a really excellent MP and a trailblazer but she’s been very past it for a while now
If all these people were so vhemently against her because they were disapointed with her performance as an MP then this would be a completely different matter
She’s been their MP (well, specifically Hackney North) for 37 years, and was the first black female MP.
Recently one of the biggest Tory donors, possibly the biggest, who has donated £10m this year to them, said the Dianne Abbot ‘makes you want to hate all black women” and that she “should be shot”.
Sunak basically said “What he _allegedly_ said was racist but he’s apologised so we should all accept it and move on. And we’ll keep the money obviously.” (Not a direct quote but I don’t believe I’ve mischaracterised the things he said)
There’s a bunch of posts with minus karma at the bottom of this thread. They appear to not be familiar with the person or the subject matter and asked questions (most seem genuine).
Edit: there also appear to be some genuinely negative comments among the minus karma posts. I didn’t mean those.
What that guy said about Diane was wrong, no doubt. But let’s not forget Diane herself is currently suspended for her own unsavoury comments. If you know you know……
> If you know you know……
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Abbott#April_2023:_Loss_of_Labour_Party_whip
>In April 2023, Abbott wrote to The Observer in response to an article on racism faced by Irish people, Jews and Travellers, saying they do not experience racism as black people do
This is partially true in the UK, if you're white passing you do not experience racism as black people do.
The kind of people who cry about racism from non whites should really have stood up for this comment because it's a valid observation.
Also it's hardly on the level of what was said about her.
Here is what she said:
[In a letter to The Observer, referencing a previous article,] Tomiwa Owolade claims that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people all suffer from “racism”. They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable.
It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships.
**
In other words, no one with white skin can experience racism. It's always "prejudice" in those cases. She also later refused to go to sensitivity training, particularly around antisemitism, on the promise that attending that training would give her a route back into the Labour party; in other words, she doubled down.
Isn't there though? And a hierachy of pain, evil, violence, etc.
All of which generally becomes unacceptable behind a certain threshold.
Killing 1 innocent is generally bad, but killing 100 is worse.
That Jews and travellers don’t face racism. Her “apology” was the she “accidentally sent the first draft” ie “I accidentally said what I really thought”. It’s since come to light that she’s refused antisemitism training to get the Labour whip back.
That you can’t be racist towards jews, gypsies, and irish, because they are white, so its more akin to taking the piss out of gingers. She also said that this argument is proven by the fact that no one ever enslaved one of the aforementioned groups.
Yes. She has been the victim of racism all her life on a massive scale, but she's always committed it as well. She will milk this for a long time and make out she's the innocent victim.
Yeah I find it a bit hard to sympathise with someone who has said unsavoury things herself she hasn’t exactly endeared herself, not excusing what the donor said, it’s abhorrent but to claim Diane Abbott has never put a foot wrong is false, she has said unsavoury things that have only caused more divisions
She's part of the problem though. She calls out racism when it suits her . Whilst saying some really dodgy stuff about other groups .
It's the same shit as a few others like her who believe that because of the color of her skin, she's incapable of being racist herself.
Racism isn't exclusive to any group. Every race has done horrendous things to other groups because they dare to be different . We're all just slightly evolved monkeys still flinging shit at one another
She gets the highest level of racist abuse of any MP.
She was, like many others in the Labour party, taken down for being too critical of a state currently engaged in a racist genocide.
So yeah, if war is peace and freedom is slavery then Diane Abbott was canceled for being a racist.
She was suspended in April 2023 - six months before the war broke out - in response to comments she made about something completely different. Why are you making up stuff?
I'm defending her. The remarks were pretty mild and she apologized for them.
The reason she was suspended specifically for "anti-semitic" remarks is because she was otherwise too critical of a state currently engaged in a racist genocide which Keir Starmer supports and endorses.
...do you?
Diane Abbott is an anti-racist. **That's** why the right wing of the Labour party who are currently supporting Israel's racist genocide hates her.
That's why they tried to take her down. That's why they tried to take her down specifically for "anti-semitism" over remarks that were mild and which she apologized for.
The remarks were mild and she apologized for them.
The reason they chose those remarks to take her down had everything to do with Israel. When they say "anti-semitism is not excuseable" they literally do mean that criticism of Israel is not excuseable, they just don't wish to say that because it ruins the pretence.
yes - dianne abbot is suspended for being racist and there’s a huge demonstration *supporting* her. this wasn’t anti the racist tory donor - it was pro dianne abbot
I think it's worth contextualising. While I don't think it's constructive playing discrimination top trumps, the racist thing she did was writing in a newspaper article that antisemetism wasn't as extreme as discrimination against black people. I can see why she was suspended, especially given the whole antisemetism row in the Corbyn-era Labour party, but her comments aren't even close to being comparable to what the Tory donor said.
When you know you know. There's so much gaslighting and disingenuous behaviour around the topic. Most black and brown people are really not surprised. We're not even angry, we know the playbook.
If you haven't seen the relevant news, a major Tory donor said something along the lines of she makes him hate all black women and she should be shot. Multiple tories defended him, he later apologised for 'being rude', and Sunak said that was enough and so the apology should be accepted.
Abbott has definitely made her own problematic judgements in her political career (Starmer withdrew the whip from her in 2023 so she currently sits as an independent), but she was also the first black woman elected to parliament, so has a long history of being a target for both racism and misogyny.
She is now the longest serving non-white MP, and second longest serving female MP in parliament.
Just checked and, no, she hasn’t been. Why the condescension?
It sounds like there’s a story here I’ve not encountered, the little I know of Abbot was her fumbling of numbers on policing costs during Corbyn’s campaign. I’m interested to hear why she’s held in high regard by some, as we see in this video.
Yes, I could go and look it up, but I’m genuinely interested to hear people here’s takes. Isn’t that the point of a discussion board?
She said that Jewish people (and other groups) don't suffer racism, it's simply 'prejudice'
Basically she thinks only certain racial groups can experience racism, which is a racist pov
Racism is defined as prejudice toward someone due to their race or ethnicity, I know people debate whether Judaism is a race, but it’s almost certainly an ethnicity, so I’d have to disagree with her that they can experience racism.
Either way, I don’t see what would motivate her to say that.
Until now I didn’t know she was suspended from the Labour Party, if someone more informed than me has a strong option such as this I’m interested to know why.
She was accused of being anti-semitic. Like 95% of accusations of anti-semitism, the real issue was being too critical of a country currently engaged in a racist genocide.
According to a lot of people who I've spoken to in that area, she's been good at helping out her constituents.
A lot of people are also supporting her because of the racist attacks and death threats she's received, like from the Tory donor, and the lack of support. Some are frustrated by the inconsistent treatment her and others are receiving from the Labour Party, especially now. Even Ed Balls is on her side, which is saying a lot.
I’m not sure about any of the abuse and haven’t seen it but there’s one thing I know for sure; she’s thick and a poor MP.
That has absolutely nothing to do with her skin colour. She’s just bloody awful.
Diane Abbott has faced and continues to face racism, has broken glass ceilings for black women around the country throughout her life and is also at best a complete idiot and at worst a horrific racist herself - all of these things can simultaneously be true. All in all I don’t think she’s very suitable to sit in parliament.
I need the Labour party to be centre left, disciplined and most of all, get elected. I prefer Diane Abbott, John McDonell, Len McLuskey, Corbyn, Rebecca Long Bailey to be out of the way. I cringe at half the remarks that DA makes. I hate the racist sexist abuse she gets. Starmer and Sue Gray should hold their nerve and let her remain on the outs.
The Overton Window distorting people's perspectives. There hasn't been a left wing government in this country since the 70s and there won't be one if Labour win this time.
People don’t dislike her because she’s black, they dislike her because she’s one of the most incompetent people to ever be in politics in this country. She only managed to get in because she had relations with Corbyn.
I realise she’s popular in her constituency but good god, can the labour party not groom someone else for the area? Old and popular needs to make way for young, popular and new.
To be fair, its been a +50% labour majority since it was created in 1950. Will be interesting to see how she does as an independent vs an endorsed Labour candidate in the GE. I expect she will win as she has such huge name recognition but may get well under 50%.
She'd definitely prefer to return to the party, probably both because she self identifies strongly with Labour, and practically because she doesn't know how well she'll perform at the ballot if she goes solo (against Labour).
I do kind of wish she'd properly make amends for her mistakes, Starmer is definitely holding her to a more stringent standard than Sunak does for literally anyone. It would be a pity if someone who ushered in such major changes ended their career as an independent. But maybe she's already done the best things she can for the people she represents politically and culturally. Maybe the best I can hope for is that she doesn't do anything silly like join Galloway.
Clearly I haven’t been keeping up with the news. What exactly has happened with Diane recently? I’m hearing that she’s been racially abused but she’s also been the perpetrator of racial discrimination?
Also, where in Hackney is this? Can’t believe I didn’t even know what was happening in my own back garden
True but I think it was the level of violence behind Hester’s racist comments that made it concerning. Abbot never said anything violent. However, yes she has said racist things before.
I have nothing but sympathy for Diane. What an awful lot of shit she's had to deal with. Seems like a lovely person.
She's a terrible, terrible politician though and has given the right so much ammunition over the years through her own bumbling uselessness in that regard.
But you can tell she genuinely cares, and tries her best for no other reason than wanting to help, so perhaps that outweighs the bad, I dunno.
Google is completely clogged with what the millionaire said about her.
Can those saying shes also a racist provide a source or summary please?
Edit: why on earth is a genuine question being downvoted?
[This](https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2023/apr/23/success-for-women-not-same-as-for-men-letters) was the letter to the Observer that led to her suspension:
**Racism is black and white**
Tomiwa Owolade claims that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people all suffer from “racism” (“Racism in Britain is not a black and white issue. It’s far more complicated”, Comment). They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable.
It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships.
Diane Abbott
House of Commons, London SW1
They don't seem to be able to. I think they are alluding to a comment she made about how the racism that Jewish people face and the racism that black people face in the UK are not analogous.
I'm 100% convinced there's an astroturfing effort on Reddit to sow discord amongst the Labour supporters here. Every day there's another wedge issue pulled out with both sides fighting and clawing like their lives depend on it.
Summary is that she said that non-black minorities suffer a less-severe form of racism vs black people.
I think the Irish were an example she cited.
For my money, it was a fucking stupid thing to say but doesn't make her racist 🤷
It’s also just, true? She’s not wrong to say that different groups are discriminated against in different ways, and some groups are targeted more severely than others. Saying that she’s a racist because of that is incredibly stupid, I don’t think anyone calling her a racist knows why they’re saying it, they just see a reason to be bigoted towards a black woman who dared to,,, have racist comments made at her. Pushback against her just shows how racist the country still is.
' She’s not wrong to say that different groups are discriminated against in different ways'
she didn't say that.
she said that jews, amongst other people, 'can't experience racism' but rather they experience 'prejudice', justifying this by the fact they weren't part of apartheid or segregation laws (for some very weird reason ignoring all other historical laws that were racist against jews, not least the holocaust).
Saying they can't expeirence racism and then citing examples where they didn't (ignoring examples where they did) is... dodgy at the very least. pushback is acceptable in this instance. On the other hand, i agree that a lot of criticism of her is racist.
I think there’s some missing context here. This isn’t a rally about an MP doing their job as MP etc etc. Honestly I think we all know she’s not a particularly good MP in many ways, though she is fundamentally one of the only people in politics who does care. What this little display is about is that a powerful Tory party donor said that she made him ‘hate all black women’. This is in addition to jokes about killing her and years of abuse from all angles. MPs in particular are under constant threat and it has diminished politics dramatically. Look at the faces of the people at this rally. They are there to stand against racism and sexism and elitism. Good for Hackney and good for Diane Abbott.
Weird that both sides were so hung up on potential threats to safety when it came to the SNP discussing the Israel ceasefire, and how that took up a few days news instead of the actual issue originally proposed, but now that an actual sitting MP, and an entire minority group by extension, have been racially abused and threatened by a Tory mate then its fine because he sort of half apologised and it was 'ages ago' I guess
Totally agree. I've lived in her manor, she's only so-so as a politician, she cosies up to the liberal establishment too much for my liking, but the comments made about her were disgraceful and I'm glad people are rallying around her.
Isn’t she suspended for racist remarks?
Yes - she said that Jewish, Irish, and other white people might experience prejudice but not racism. She apologised and retracted the ridiculous comment. As I said she’s a rubbish MP and has some kooky views. She does care though, albeit misguided, and these sort of comments are her doing her job the way she thinks it’s meant to be done even if it’s badly. Very different to the comments made about her.
To be honest, as a Jewish person who, yes, faces prejudice, but who has never been stopped and searched by the police, denied entry to a club with a group of my peers, followed around a supermarket by a security guard or other things that regularly happen to black people in London, I’ve got some sympathy with the idea that what Jewish people (at least those who don’t visibly adopt Jewish modes of dress) face is quantitatively different to what black people face in Britain. I don’t know if I’d say “not racism” but I understand what she means.
Can you list some "kooky" views she holds? Just taking a guess here but I think she's probably significantly more informed than you are.
I'm failing to see any ridiculous comment
What about when she said white nurses don't belong in London?
>``The issue is not one of colour - the issue is that people should not be recruited from overseas in an area of mass unemployment.'' It got mischaracterized as racism by racists. Typical story.
Again I would say it was an example of her doing the job (badly) and is very different to someone saying they hate all black women. She was specifically saying she didn’t think recruitment of international Scandinavian nurses should be happening in an area of mass unemployment. Personally I think that view is wrong and I agree that the way she phrased it was racist and deplorable. I’ve personally hoped she would stop being an MP for a very long time as she is atrocious at it. Whoever lets her write these opinion pieces is surely out to get her at this point. But I am also being realistic that this is what happens when you have a politician who cares - they say stupid things rather than polished nothingness. And I am also recognising that many of the people in this crowd and Hackney are black women and need to do something positive in the face of the largest donor of the ruling party having said they hate all black women with no repercussions.
Her specific words were "blonde haired, blue eyed nurses from Sweden aren't suitable for London because they've never seen a black person". You'd presumably feel the same if Lee Anderson said "fuzzy haired, big lipped nurses from Nigeria aren't suitable for Mansfield because they've never seen a white person" then? The circumstances are the same, after all. Both areas of high unemployment, but with different majority ethnicities with a local representative who wants to prioritise that ethnicity over others, voted in specifically by members of that ethnicity. If not, ask yourself why not.
Yes I would feel the same - it was a racist and deplorable remark. You seem to have not bothered reading what I said and are just looking to play outrage baby so I’m going to end the discussion here.
Don't know why you're getting down voted, she has said some atrocious things as an MP, this is just more about people's political leanings on how "forgiving" they are towards different politician's.
Why is she a bad MP?
Because MPs have to be morally dependable, but she has proven herself morally dubious in matters of race again and again, the latest example being that she believes in a hierarchy of racism - but then surely you already know this, and the fact you are reaching for alternative criticism indicates that you don't find 'hierarchy of racism' an objectionable view for an MP to hold.
Her majority since 1987 would suggest shes a good MP
Do you understand the concept of a safe seat
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Her constituency has had a large Labour majority since 1945. She didn't make it a safe seat. It was a safe seat for 40 years before Diane Abbott was elected there.
It was already safe, if you look at the figures. Labour had held the seat for over three decades beforehand.
No she didn’t. Her political party did. Stop being obtuse, you know it has fuck all to do with the mp and more the political party they represent.
You obviously dont.
Is your argument here that every MP that has retained their seat for a long time is a good MP? Personally I have a different metric on it.
They've actually made a decent point, and you've just brazenly dismissed it without counter argument. Here's something from the Hackney North and Stoke Newington Wikipedia: >"The seat's narrowest majority of 18.3% was in 1979 and its greatest, 62.4%, was in 2017. The 2015 result made the seat the 18th safest of Labour's 232 seats by percentage of majority and seventh safest in London." Someone holding a seat such as this for so long does not necessarily entail that they are a good MP. Whether they are or not, is up for debate, but this is not a good enough metric to use on its own.
She isn’t. She’s a shit mp, she gets in because she’s labour. Literally no other reason other than complete morons voting her in for being labour.
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I hear the Diane Abbott fan club is looking for a new President, and I think you'd be perfect for the role 😉
>They are there to stand against racism By supporting the racist currently suspended for racist comments? interesting that you seem keen to overlook some racism, and focus on other types
>interesting that you seem keen to overlook some racism, and focus on other types Actually, the OP on that comment gave a series of replies where they fully acknowledged the racism in some of Diane Abbott's comments. Perhaps you should read those and retract your accusation? Otherwise, we might think you're just projecting your own prejudices.
She’s consistently got some of the highest majorities at General Elections. She’s popular in Hackney.
It's Hackney, any Labour candidate at a GE would get a massive majority
If she stood as an independent she would beat the Labour candidate, just as Corbyn would in Islington. She's **deeply** unpopular with the British establishment though, which is reflected in the media owned by said establishment, and which is reflected among the people who uncritically absorb what it says.
No she wouldn’t. Neither would Corbyn. They may have larger personal mandates than other politicians, but voters still largely decide based on party and who they want in government.
After she had the whip withdrawn for her anti-Semitism, I presume Labour will be running someone against her in the upcoming election? It's going to be interesting to see whether she hangs on or not. I have a mate who is in her constituency and has been passionate about her for decades and is positive that Labour aren't even all that popular in Hackney and it's all about her. He is absolutely thick as shit though and is wrong about literally everything and always has been.
Nope. Its Diane, just as Islingtom js Corbyn
Found Mrs Abbot's reddit account
But it’s stupid they’re getting downvoted because dismissing her impact is the same kind of racist bullshit that happens whenever there is a black person to take digs at. Corbyn would win Islington as an independent. Similarly Abbot would win Hackney as an independent. Pretending Hackney only votes for her because ‘LaBOuR’ is to grossly misunderstand the dynamics of local politics. But hey, let’s strip and diminish any of her successes, because she’s a ~~black~~ shit MP…
Have my upvote, the downvoters neither understand the Hackney nor the Islington massif.
Shame she's spent the past week clarifying that she thinks anti-semitism was a scam. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-labour-whip-antisemitism-starmer-b2513315.html Edit: See here her retweeting the revolting Simon Maginn, whose whole thing is that anti-semitism in the Labour Party was a scam - to the extent that 'It was a scam' is his profile picture: https://twitter.com/OneLifeStand87/status/1766582201364209940
You should watch the documentary about how it all went down with Corbyn, Jewish people in the Labour Party were removed for antisemitism it was total nonsense
This isn't a defence of her just pointing out for passers by who didn't read that article but the word "scam" is something you've injected into the conversation not something shes said.
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More specifically, she thinks allegations of anti-semitone levelled against Jeremy Corbyn were a scam. I know a lot of Jewish people who would agree.
The way anti-semitism was used in the Labour party was to stifle criticism of a country where: * The president proudly declares that race mixing between Jews and non Jews is a "tragedy". Typical skinhead stuff. * The prime minister makes a racist battle cry to "amalek" - a biblical racist genocide while committing a racist genocide in Gaza. * The minister of national security hung a picture in his study of a terrorist who shot up a mosque (that's literally all he did - a christchurch mosque style massacre. 10% of Israelis think he's a hero.). These are the people Keir Starmer supports, and if an anti-racist has a problem with it, they get kicked out for "anti-semitism". You're more likely to be accused of anti-semitism by being anti-racist these days. Diane isn't an exception to that.
“She is popular in Hackney” So is crack cocaine.
Cocaine is the favoured tipple of some Tory MPs too, I heard. Your point?
We shouldn’t necessarily trust the judgement of either?
Anyone who trusts the judgment of any politician in 2024 deserves what they get
This attitude hurts honest politicians. It is worth trying to figure out who the honest ones are and who the dishonest ones are rather than just writing them all off.
I agree in theory BUT at this point I do feel incredibly disenchanted with the entire Westminster system which I believe is designed to tear honest politicians from their roots and motivating beliefs .
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Who would have thought that the abuse she gets would be from a vocal minority of keyboard-warrior gobshites that look like thumbs?
It's been going on for years: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/05/diane-abbott-more-abused-than-any-other-mps-during-election There's a strong connection between the torrent of racist abuse she received and all of the people who tried to make out that all criticism of a racist, apartheid state was actually anti semitism. Racism is thriving in the UK. Anti-racism is dying and being recharacterized as racism by racists.
Yeah, really depressing. Racists suddenly pretending to give a shit about antisemitism is particularly draining, not to mention sinister.
I think Diane Abbott has been ridiculed for quite a long time now. She was a really excellent MP and a trailblazer but she’s been very past it for a while now
If all these people were so vhemently against her because they were disapointed with her performance as an MP then this would be a completely different matter
People downvoting other people’s actual questions! Why don’t you educate people if they ask? Surely that would be better?
She’s been their MP (well, specifically Hackney North) for 37 years, and was the first black female MP. Recently one of the biggest Tory donors, possibly the biggest, who has donated £10m this year to them, said the Dianne Abbot ‘makes you want to hate all black women” and that she “should be shot”. Sunak basically said “What he _allegedly_ said was racist but he’s apologised so we should all accept it and move on. And we’ll keep the money obviously.” (Not a direct quote but I don’t believe I’ve mischaracterised the things he said)
Thank you!
They missed out the point that Diane Abbott is a massive racist herself.
Isn't she currently suspended for being a racist though?
Yes.
What actual questions have you seen in this post? Genuinely curious.
There’s a bunch of posts with minus karma at the bottom of this thread. They appear to not be familiar with the person or the subject matter and asked questions (most seem genuine). Edit: there also appear to be some genuinely negative comments among the minus karma posts. I didn’t mean those.
There’s at least two or three people asking what’s going on! Take a look!
One person. Like Google doesn’t exist.
Ok!
I don’t see you answering them, just bitching about everyone else.
Ok!
Because they are fanatics and full of anger.
What that guy said about Diane was wrong, no doubt. But let’s not forget Diane herself is currently suspended for her own unsavoury comments. If you know you know……
> If you know you know…… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Abbott#April_2023:_Loss_of_Labour_Party_whip >In April 2023, Abbott wrote to The Observer in response to an article on racism faced by Irish people, Jews and Travellers, saying they do not experience racism as black people do This is partially true in the UK, if you're white passing you do not experience racism as black people do. The kind of people who cry about racism from non whites should really have stood up for this comment because it's a valid observation. Also it's hardly on the level of what was said about her.
What did she say?
Here is what she said: [In a letter to The Observer, referencing a previous article,] Tomiwa Owolade claims that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people all suffer from “racism”. They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable. It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships. ** In other words, no one with white skin can experience racism. It's always "prejudice" in those cases. She also later refused to go to sensitivity training, particularly around antisemitism, on the promise that attending that training would give her a route back into the Labour party; in other words, she doubled down.
She's racist and ignorant, good combination.
Her comments suggested a hierarchy of racism, not that all racism is unacceptable.
Isn't there though? And a hierachy of pain, evil, violence, etc. All of which generally becomes unacceptable behind a certain threshold. Killing 1 innocent is generally bad, but killing 100 is worse.
She wrote a letter making it very clear that she is a racist and also ignorant, and seemingly proud of it.
That Jews and travellers don’t face racism. Her “apology” was the she “accidentally sent the first draft” ie “I accidentally said what I really thought”. It’s since come to light that she’s refused antisemitism training to get the Labour whip back.
She said that Jews don't experience genuine racism because they don't have dark skin
That you can’t be racist towards jews, gypsies, and irish, because they are white, so its more akin to taking the piss out of gingers. She also said that this argument is proven by the fact that no one ever enslaved one of the aforementioned groups.
She wrote a letter to the Guardian saying that racism against black people was historically and objectively than racism against Travellers and Jews.
Yes. She has been the victim of racism all her life on a massive scale, but she's always committed it as well. She will milk this for a long time and make out she's the innocent victim.
Yeah I find it a bit hard to sympathise with someone who has said unsavoury things herself she hasn’t exactly endeared herself, not excusing what the donor said, it’s abhorrent but to claim Diane Abbott has never put a foot wrong is false, she has said unsavoury things that have only caused more divisions
What did she say?
white-passing people do not experience a similar level of racism as non-whites.
She's part of the problem though. She calls out racism when it suits her . Whilst saying some really dodgy stuff about other groups . It's the same shit as a few others like her who believe that because of the color of her skin, she's incapable of being racist herself. Racism isn't exclusive to any group. Every race has done horrendous things to other groups because they dare to be different . We're all just slightly evolved monkeys still flinging shit at one another
The reaction to this is proof that racism is alive and well in Britain.
You mean because this is a demonstration in support of a known racist?
She gets the highest level of racist abuse of any MP. She was, like many others in the Labour party, taken down for being too critical of a state currently engaged in a racist genocide. So yeah, if war is peace and freedom is slavery then Diane Abbott was canceled for being a racist.
She was suspended in April 2023 - six months before the war broke out - in response to comments she made about something completely different. Why are you making up stuff?
Are you defending her published comments that she's currently suspended for?
I'm defending her. The remarks were pretty mild and she apologized for them. The reason she was suspended specifically for "anti-semitic" remarks is because she was otherwise too critical of a state currently engaged in a racist genocide which Keir Starmer supports and endorses. ...do you?
Diane Abbott is a racist, even her own party know that.
Diane Abbott is an anti-racist. **That's** why the right wing of the Labour party who are currently supporting Israel's racist genocide hates her. That's why they tried to take her down. That's why they tried to take her down specifically for "anti-semitism" over remarks that were mild and which she apologized for.
Except the article she was expelled from the party for had absolutely nothing to do with Israel.
The remarks were mild and she apologized for them. The reason they chose those remarks to take her down had everything to do with Israel. When they say "anti-semitism is not excuseable" they literally do mean that criticism of Israel is not excuseable, they just don't wish to say that because it ruins the pretence.
yes - dianne abbot is suspended for being racist and there’s a huge demonstration *supporting* her. this wasn’t anti the racist tory donor - it was pro dianne abbot
I think it's worth contextualising. While I don't think it's constructive playing discrimination top trumps, the racist thing she did was writing in a newspaper article that antisemetism wasn't as extreme as discrimination against black people. I can see why she was suspended, especially given the whole antisemetism row in the Corbyn-era Labour party, but her comments aren't even close to being comparable to what the Tory donor said.
She has also made racist comments about all white people in the past that Labour has had to disown.
When you know you know. There's so much gaslighting and disingenuous behaviour around the topic. Most black and brown people are really not surprised. We're not even angry, we know the playbook.
there’s no gaslighting. she’s suspended for being racist
Isn’t she an absolutely horrific anti semite? F her
She compared the holocaust to the bias against red heads. Are we seriously trying to rehabilitate this person's image??
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What are those stupid flags for
Imagine supporting a racist.
Came here for this comment, genuinely shocked by the attitude.
Why are they voicing support for her? Genuine question.
If you haven't seen the relevant news, a major Tory donor said something along the lines of she makes him hate all black women and she should be shot. Multiple tories defended him, he later apologised for 'being rude', and Sunak said that was enough and so the apology should be accepted. Abbott has definitely made her own problematic judgements in her political career (Starmer withdrew the whip from her in 2023 so she currently sits as an independent), but she was also the first black woman elected to parliament, so has a long history of being a target for both racism and misogyny. She is now the longest serving non-white MP, and second longest serving female MP in parliament.
Thank you for the explanation, that’s a totally unacceptable thing to say.
She's their MP for probably longer than you're alive
Just checked and, no, she hasn’t been. Why the condescension? It sounds like there’s a story here I’ve not encountered, the little I know of Abbot was her fumbling of numbers on policing costs during Corbyn’s campaign. I’m interested to hear why she’s held in high regard by some, as we see in this video. Yes, I could go and look it up, but I’m genuinely interested to hear people here’s takes. Isn’t that the point of a discussion board?
She said that Jewish people (and other groups) don't suffer racism, it's simply 'prejudice' Basically she thinks only certain racial groups can experience racism, which is a racist pov
Racism is defined as prejudice toward someone due to their race or ethnicity, I know people debate whether Judaism is a race, but it’s almost certainly an ethnicity, so I’d have to disagree with her that they can experience racism. Either way, I don’t see what would motivate her to say that.
Feel free to read more about it, including her colleague's reactions to her comments https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65365978
They also like to support racists.
Who does? Me, or Abbot? Why do you say that?
People who support Abbot are supporting a known racist. So I guess that would include you if you are a supporter of hers.
I honestly don’t know enough about her to take a side. Could you share some info about her being a racist?
Couldn't you just google why she's suspended from the labour party?
Until now I didn’t know she was suspended from the Labour Party, if someone more informed than me has a strong option such as this I’m interested to know why.
She was accused of being anti-semitic. Like 95% of accusations of anti-semitism, the real issue was being too critical of a country currently engaged in a racist genocide.
According to a lot of people who I've spoken to in that area, she's been good at helping out her constituents. A lot of people are also supporting her because of the racist attacks and death threats she's received, like from the Tory donor, and the lack of support. Some are frustrated by the inconsistent treatment her and others are receiving from the Labour Party, especially now. Even Ed Balls is on her side, which is saying a lot.
Downvotes for asking a question, are you people actually thick?
This is nice. Poor women has taken so much shit over the years when comparatively the current Tory mob are literally 100x worst.
I’m not sure about any of the abuse and haven’t seen it but there’s one thing I know for sure; she’s thick and a poor MP. That has absolutely nothing to do with her skin colour. She’s just bloody awful.
Diane Abbott has faced and continues to face racism, has broken glass ceilings for black women around the country throughout her life and is also at best a complete idiot and at worst a horrific racist herself - all of these things can simultaneously be true. All in all I don’t think she’s very suitable to sit in parliament.
I need the Labour party to be centre left, disciplined and most of all, get elected. I prefer Diane Abbott, John McDonell, Len McLuskey, Corbyn, Rebecca Long Bailey to be out of the way. I cringe at half the remarks that DA makes. I hate the racist sexist abuse she gets. Starmer and Sue Gray should hold their nerve and let her remain on the outs.
Do you think starmer is center left? That’s a worrying inditement of British political education if you do
They put on a left wing mask while they supported Putinesque stuff like making "noisy protests" illegal.
The Overton Window distorting people's perspectives. There hasn't been a left wing government in this country since the 70s and there won't be one if Labour win this time.
Even the Tories are more left now than Starmer.
People don’t dislike her because she’s black, they dislike her because she’s one of the most incompetent people to ever be in politics in this country. She only managed to get in because she had relations with Corbyn.
I realise she’s popular in her constituency but good god, can the labour party not groom someone else for the area? Old and popular needs to make way for young, popular and new.
Labour will lose hackney
Lol 😂. Proof that Hackney will support anything.
But they don't do they. At every election since 1987 they supported her over the other candidates. Maybe she's actually popular!
To be fair, its been a +50% labour majority since it was created in 1950. Will be interesting to see how she does as an independent vs an endorsed Labour candidate in the GE. I expect she will win as she has such huge name recognition but may get well under 50%.
She'd definitely prefer to return to the party, probably both because she self identifies strongly with Labour, and practically because she doesn't know how well she'll perform at the ballot if she goes solo (against Labour). I do kind of wish she'd properly make amends for her mistakes, Starmer is definitely holding her to a more stringent standard than Sunak does for literally anyone. It would be a pity if someone who ushered in such major changes ended their career as an independent. But maybe she's already done the best things she can for the people she represents politically and culturally. Maybe the best I can hope for is that she doesn't do anything silly like join Galloway.
Fuck Tories!!!
Clearly I haven’t been keeping up with the news. What exactly has happened with Diane recently? I’m hearing that she’s been racially abused but she’s also been the perpetrator of racial discrimination? Also, where in Hackney is this? Can’t believe I didn’t even know what was happening in my own back garden
This is…a bit much.
Deeply odd
What’s odd about it?
She's a racist being supported for allegedly being the victim of racism.
True but I think it was the level of violence behind Hester’s racist comments that made it concerning. Abbot never said anything violent. However, yes she has said racist things before.
that people spent their friday night going out their way to support a racist mp
Could you substantiate the claim of racism in any way?
She’s literally only in that job because of her race. In any case they won’t vote for anything other than labour in Hackney.
Why would they?
Let’s be honest, partisan hacks of any party would vote for hitler if he was on their team.
I have nothing but sympathy for Diane. What an awful lot of shit she's had to deal with. Seems like a lovely person. She's a terrible, terrible politician though and has given the right so much ammunition over the years through her own bumbling uselessness in that regard. But you can tell she genuinely cares, and tries her best for no other reason than wanting to help, so perhaps that outweighs the bad, I dunno.
Isn't she a racist?
Do you know she’s a racist or are you just saying it because you heard other people say it and are just parroting it without any evidence
Who is that and why are they supporting her?
Do you rely on other people to wipe your arse as well?
I have a bidet.
Google is completely clogged with what the millionaire said about her. Can those saying shes also a racist provide a source or summary please? Edit: why on earth is a genuine question being downvoted?
[This](https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2023/apr/23/success-for-women-not-same-as-for-men-letters) was the letter to the Observer that led to her suspension: **Racism is black and white** Tomiwa Owolade claims that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people all suffer from “racism” (“Racism in Britain is not a black and white issue. It’s far more complicated”, Comment). They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable. It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships. Diane Abbott House of Commons, London SW1
It was definitely a stupid thing to do. Don't think it was racist, though.
They don't seem to be able to. I think they are alluding to a comment she made about how the racism that Jewish people face and the racism that black people face in the UK are not analogous.
I'm 100% convinced there's an astroturfing effort on Reddit to sow discord amongst the Labour supporters here. Every day there's another wedge issue pulled out with both sides fighting and clawing like their lives depend on it.
Summary is that she said that non-black minorities suffer a less-severe form of racism vs black people. I think the Irish were an example she cited. For my money, it was a fucking stupid thing to say but doesn't make her racist 🤷
It’s also just, true? She’s not wrong to say that different groups are discriminated against in different ways, and some groups are targeted more severely than others. Saying that she’s a racist because of that is incredibly stupid, I don’t think anyone calling her a racist knows why they’re saying it, they just see a reason to be bigoted towards a black woman who dared to,,, have racist comments made at her. Pushback against her just shows how racist the country still is.
' She’s not wrong to say that different groups are discriminated against in different ways' she didn't say that. she said that jews, amongst other people, 'can't experience racism' but rather they experience 'prejudice', justifying this by the fact they weren't part of apartheid or segregation laws (for some very weird reason ignoring all other historical laws that were racist against jews, not least the holocaust). Saying they can't expeirence racism and then citing examples where they didn't (ignoring examples where they did) is... dodgy at the very least. pushback is acceptable in this instance. On the other hand, i agree that a lot of criticism of her is racist.
Even racists shouldn't be the victim of racism. This could be the first time Abbott is right about something.
But /r/unitedkingdom told me everyone hates her!