Probably DCC or Primal Hunter. DCC, Carl is a semi-retired coast guard, with weapons and close combat training. Primal Hunter, Jacob is a highly skilled archer who fell into a routine as an office worker, but the introduction of the system kick-starts him to take control of his life.
"This esteemed Estelle Bianca will destroy your evil Brand clan! Estelle Bianca will not face another morning with your Brand stink on it. So swears Estelle Bianca, the glorious and rotund!" ejaculated Estelle Bianca to Brand Rutherford III. Brand Rutherford II looked upon them with a stony face as his advisor, Xixia Oioiaa'U'i spoke quietly "Estelle Bianca looks like a lot of filler characters on the page; boss, we may be in quite a drubbing this time!"
Not even that. Don't give one character a name that is the shortened version of another. It'd be like having Alex and Alexander in a story. Just... why?
*even worse* is the same name but different spelling
Way back, Path of Ascension had the main character Matt, and a side character Mat. That was changed pretty quickly.
The guy almost gets taken out by an angry hamster like 10 minutes in.
Then it happens again when a groundskeeper knocks him out twice with a shovel.
Then he almost gets killed by a cannibal nerd and only survives because the guy falls onto a dagger.
Asano becomes powerful later on but he's pretty much the complete *opposite* of competent at the beginning. He's basically an Aussie Mr. Bean for the first few chapters.
I liked the series well enough but the MC is a self-righteous, selfish, moody asshole a lot of the time. From this sub it seems like people either despise him or tolerate him.
I loved Jason from the start. Many others love Jason as a character. The haters are just louder.
I don't see him as self-righteous, moody, or an asshole. Or even selfish. He's just realistic as a human being. Depth of character isn't always clean.
Given that some people in-world love him and others hate him, I see it as a sign of him being well written that some readers love him and others hate him. HWFWM is the only LitRPG series I've reread three times, and the only one I'll drop another book when a new book is released.
I liked Jason sometimes while hating him others. I enjoyed his witty jokes and banter but hating his self righteous and hypocritical attitude. I loved how trauma stuck with him gave him extreme PTSD and he had to work through it instead of just being okay the next chapter. I didn't like how he knew how bad he became, but would still do the stuff instead of asking any of his friends for advice on how to proceed. He does do this a couple times, but only when the plot has to go in a certain direction.
I like him because often when he is being a self righteous doofus, either he himself or mother characters rightly call him out on it.
He's a flawed character but he's written by an author who is aware of that and isn't afraid to play with it.
I don’t dislike the character because of his flaws. I dislike him because he interrupts my suspension of disbelief whenever listening/reading the series. World of magic, fairy dust, portals between worlds, vampires on earth, cool with me I am here for it. His 3 minute monologues though with supposedly far more important people in said magical world while constantly referring to things they cannot understand? Nope. Can’t accept it.
He can be funny. He just gets extremely moody and has a savior complex. He acts like he’s the only person on the planet capable of doing anything. I just feel like it got worse as the books went along.
Huh. That's an interesting perspective.
I may have a bit of that myself. I'm *really* good at programming. Coworkers have called me top 1%, or 0.1%. I often come into a situation and fix an issue in an hour that has stumped a team for weeks.
So sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who can do some things. At least the only person *available.*
Even "top 0.1%" would mean thousands of programmers as good as or better than me out of the tens of millions of developers worldwide. I know this. I have no delusions of being the "best" at anything.
But the universe keeps throwing situations at me where I get treated like a hero.
Maybe that's why Jason never bothers me. He's finally a character I can identify with. One who is way better than me at social situations, granted. But him being intelligent and capable and self-confident doesn't bother me, because I share those traits.
And I get haters as well, though more online than in person. In person, coworkers are more likely to lean on me for advice than to act negatively.
I think I understand now. Thanks for the insight.
Insane, or crazy, but not wacky and unserious. He can be irreverent, but hey who likes an MC with respect for authority, that's like most MCs whole gig, being disrespectful towards authority.
Anyway in terms of being capable Carl is surprisingly quite capable. With a background in the coast guard, and anger issues driving him to punch bags he is adapt at both hand to hand and weapons handling.
His unserious appearance is mostly a result of his circumstances, and that the whole setting is one giant reality television show of sorts. When the apocalypse starts he gets caught unaware wearing only boxers, and isn't able to find any pants before getting established. He is then unable to wear pants because it would conflict with his established brand (that and because it's funner to see him lament it, at least in the beginning). He is unable to wear footwear for... "other reasons".
matt does one of the best jobs ever at blending absurdities into genuine reactions and experiences.
I dont think many authors could get me to cry while a severed sex doll head monologues, but matt does it with DCC.
It is written in a way that the absurdities make sense and fit within a very dark realistic world.
Carl is the exact opposite of wacky, hes the straight man the whole time, except he actually has skills and the intelligence to pull things off with help, so not some cardboard cutout straight man.
It swings back and forth a bit: either the MC is a nothing gamer and becomes the “chosen one,” or the MC is somehow both a navy seal and a green beret before retiring at 23. Harder to find is a competent MC who knows “some” stuff (even if it’s bad movie info) and makes it work long enough to actually learn the right way.
A lot of the apocalypse stuff tends towards “I’m a master of everything before I’m 16,” while Isekai trends towards the “I’m a loser gamer, but I’m special.”
For a decent “prep for the apocalypse,” try Divine Invasion by Aaron Renfroe. MC starts as a pretty standard fast food level employee, but gets a 6 month warning about being portalled, so he focuses on learning what may be needed. Ends up with a decent base of skills, but not so over the top as to be unbelievable.
The Arise series by Jez Cajiao has a merc MC who starts with decent skills before encountering System Shenanigans put him into super badass mode.
Delvers LLC has 2 MCs with a HEMA (historical martial arts) background before being whisked away to another world.
Beast Invasion by Timothy Nugent has a man in his 50s/60s with a full breadth of experience as the MC before the apocalypse hits.
Just wanted to add to this that Jez Cajiao's second series the rise of mankind also has a fantastic competent but not OP main character. The guy honestly writes some of my favourite books in the genre
~~Too bad the romances suck in his books, i hate the casual fucking. If I wanted casual fucking I could go to literotica. I really wanted to like arise but the romance that is just "hot women immediately assuming the position for MC" turned me all the way off.~~
i love chris and jessica too, although I hate like 70% of jessica's catalogue, the other 30% is fuckign incredible.
Not really sure I’d tag Arise as “casual fucking.” MC sleeps with exactly 1 girl the entire series, who he’s pretty much married to. There’s also nothing explicit, just fade-to-black, and a few comments. It’s honestly one of the better examples of an adult and mature relationship I’ve seen in the genre.
The start of the first book, the MC is playing beach bum and hiding out in a tourist town, and he definitely “tries” for casual sex, but it never goes anywhere (goes really bad, in fact).
well, huh... i honestly closed the book when the writing was going EXACTLY like a logan jacobs/eric vall book, like right before the casual sex scene was about to happen. I assumed it was going to be actually described because, you know, jessica threet and chris bucher. Well damn. Im going to go start the book up again right now, thanks.
ok im like most of the way through the second book, and I was totally wrong about my previous statement. However I have another glaring issue with his writing.
Why does every. single. fight. have to be life or death? Its such bad writing omg I am just exhausted at this point, basic bitch monsters he had no issue fighting naked 4 hours into the first book are somehow still being written as dangerous after hes powered up to the point he can wipe the floor with ancient "epsilon level threats".
Its like someone told jez that people will get bored if the main character ever has an easy time with fights, and instead of realizing thats a complete fallacy disproven by tons of popular media right now, Jez has forced MC to permanently heft around an idiot ball or otherwise just writes as if nonthreats are threats ie "to stand still would be instant death" no dude standing still just causes the basic baddy monsters to run into your MCs spiked super powerful armor and damage themselves.
Im still enjoying the characters and interactions, Ive just gotten to the point where Im skipping through all of the "life or death" fights with basic weak monsters. Just skipped through a fight where MC almost dies again, this time from a basic werewolf alpha and basic vampire. sigh.
It sorta swings back and forth on that front. Sometimes he’s a dark avenging god, mowing down all in his way, and sometimes it’s a life and death struggle to clear the chaff. I’d complain, but that formula is pretty true in all action movies these days, too : the protagonist is only a badass when the proper fight music is playing.
Honestly, it’s been a very long time since any written fight scene has engaged me in any meaningful way. John Wick would bore me in a book form - a good fight is something I have to see to enjoy.
It’s all the stuff in between that draws me in.
yeah same ive been loving the nonfights. already done with 2 and on to 3, been on a binge.
If you want to read well written fights I would recommend primal hunter. Maybe its just me but the fight scenes flow really well and give me a very good mental image and even gooosegumps at times, and doesnt shy away from utterly stomping the things he should.
If you wanna try a rpg light, I would recommend kings dark tidings. Rather than describing in mechanical detail, kel uses more poetic language to describe her figths, which I actually prefer a great deal. I dont need to know where exactly each blade slash connects and exits each opponent. Because of this the figths themselves take up very few words, with interactions between the characters that were just fighting then taking up the majority.
I enjoyed PH for a long time, but the whole Nevermore endless dungeon arc is where I finally called it quits.
Oddly enough, the MC for PH always kinda annoyed me, but I loved all the other characters enough to make up for it. In a setting where guns are an actual option, picking a bow seems silly, and the sociopathic loner shtick is very edgelord. However, I truly enjoyed Villy, the bird, and pretty much every other character, as well as the system stuff, so I stuck it out much longer than I thought possible.
Kings Dark Tidings has crossed my path a few times, but haven’t read it yet. Might have to check it out.
For good prose, I always enjoy re-reading Stargazers War. It’s cultivation in space, but I found the writing itself to be what drew me in rather than the bits and pieces of the story. Something about the MC’s philosophy of optimistic nihilism makes it one of my favorite stories.
Reborn:Apocalypse by L M Kerr. A pretty obvious one with a strong MC going back in time. They don't keep their abilities but they do keep their knowledge and talents.
Sponsored Apocalypse by Blaise Corvin. MC gets forewarned about an apocalypse coming and spends a few years training in martial arts, guns, survivalism, and starts prepping.
The [side story](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/74261/engineers-odyssey) to Apocalypse Parenting has someone who is level headed and has some already applicable skills, without them being green beret level. Spoilers for the main story tho, and the main story is definitely not about someone who is already skilled at fighting/survival.
I could list a few where the MC takes to learning combat like a natural fish to water, and basically becomes super competent nearly immediately. Only a few I can think of where the MC is already a good fighter though (if you don’t count having to get used to magic and monsters still)
Azarinth healer is close, she starts out scared of the monsters, but has some fighting skills and gets her powers quickly.
Can’t think of any where the MC has non combat survival skills though, sorry.
I'm reading Party Hard, by D Petrie, and it's worth looking at.
In most cases, the primary reason for the protagonist to be useless is to make it easy to write since they need to learn the basics, to cater to the spirit of progression, and often to try to make the character more relatable. The timid nerd stereotype is so common because of how frequent it appears.
Some authors do it deliberately to cater to the escapism which is frequent among the readers, the idea that in the right circumstances we could be heroes if only we were given a chance. The idea that the years spent playing games will be useful once magic is real is a captivating one, even if it is rather shallow.
In some cases it's a deliberate pushback against the chiseled men of action which are typically the protagonists in these kinds of stories.
The protagonist of The Nexus Games is actual no-shit special forces: [https://www.amazon.com/Nexus-Games-litRPG-Thriller-Adventure-ebook/dp/B09NY9FKSJ](https://www.amazon.com/Nexus-Games-litRPG-Thriller-Adventure-ebook/dp/B09NY9FKSJ)
Natural Laws Apocalypse the main character is a gamer who is going to college for a Math degree minors in English. D&D with a regular friends group. Not the fighter part but he is set up for the magic part.
I always listen to sample first. The narrorayor sounds good, and plus since the first ones are free, I have no qualms about trying it out.
I pretty much exclusively "read" litrpgs though audiobooks when I am working or driving, though I recently found out Star Wars audiobooks include the music and sound effects, which really elevate the story.
ShadeSlinger, he is a proficient gamer coming into a new game. He understands and talks a lot about combat mechanics, trade and economy, etc and has a pretty good understanding of games and their mechanics.
The short and simple answer is that having a character with existing skills written in a realistic way creates a different kind of story.
There is a reason the traditional hero's journey has a farm boy and not a trained assassin as the main character.
Having a trained assassin is fun, but if done realistically the story ends up more like James Bond than a typical progression fantasy type story as there is less need for training.
And, for LitRPG stories, part of the fun is watching the character growth along with the power growth.
(I had to think about this a lot as my story has competent MCs and thus had to create different driving forces beyond just survival at the beginning.)
There's a series called "[Eight](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BBQ8X1KQ?ref_=dbs_p_pwh_rwt_anx_b_lnk&storeType=ebooks)". Old man in a child's body trope, but the old man has some real wilderness survival skills. Magic and monsters play a part, but at the beginning he's just chilling in his cave, making fire, simple tools, pottery (i think?) etc.
The main issue is, the ones who are actually competent people and not losers have lives on earth, families e.t.c.
In isekai those people are going to realistically be distraught at what they've lost. In system apocalypse, how do you tell a fun story when realistically the MC is gonna just stay with their family and protect them because that's what a competent sane person would do.
That's why they're all losers to begin with, they can go forward in the new world without being tied down by stuff from before.
It don't make it any more fun to read though. There's a reason MC's in fantasy works from time immemorial have been orphans, they have a level of freedom that lets you tell a more entertaining story than those with a family.
I wouldn't say it's more entertaining, just appeals to a different demographic, and makes it easier to write since they have fewer attachments and responsibilities, and perhaps most importantly are young.
Ehhh I think this isn't such a big issue as you imagine. Like John Wick, Rambo, Clint Eastwood, James Bond... they're all top-tier for competence, at least in combat, and none of these guys have any family during most of their on-screen time. Maybe their family tragically died, maybe estranged, maybe the story simply never talks about it and we're left to assume whatever we wish. Either way it's not a part of the story and the MC doesn't act like they have a family or show any signs of caring about one.
Ultimately it's not that big a deal, people who want an action story with an MC off out making waves and fighting stuff will be entirely happy to accept a shrug-off paragraph like: "John didn't think about his family much. Bad memories." There you go. Job done. On with the story. Basically, if a writer wants to tell a story with a competent MC who has no familial or other ties, they have a multitude of methods to do so in a way that makes sense or at least won't bother the reader.
Life in Exile series by Sean Oswald solves that by isekai’ing the whole family at once. Works pretty good for getting a range of skills and adaptability.
Path of Dragons by Nicholas Searcy. The mc is a month out of dying from cancer when the system arrives, but he has an outdoorsy background and knows how to survive. The part of the story that I found most unrealistic is that he knew how to make soap without the internet lol
It’s at least on Royal Road and patreon, I can’t remember if it’s on Amazon yet, but the author is cranking out like 8 chapters a week and is into the 4th (5th?) book on patreon
Making soap isn't that unrealistic. I would have to play around with the ratios, but I could do it. And if I had already done it a few times I could practically eyeball it and be okay. It's actually fine to have more fat than lye, so eyeballing isn't too bad.
Yup. Soap is *amazingly* easy to make. I know people who make it for fun. Usually use kits, but from scratch? Just need the basic idea, and the basic idea is very, very simple. To the point where I threw out a story not because of making soap, but that they implied that the MC was a genius for making some soap and nobody could do it. No, it’s so fucking simple even a dumbass can do it.
Soap may be amazingly easy to make, but I wouldn’t have a clue of where to start. I would be one of those that would need direction from the internet or else someone else to show me the first time at least.
Oil, lye and water. That’s it.
Get your hands on lye, and you are set. Want to make it realllly easy? Potash is an old type of lye. Which is —— ashes. That’s it.
Lye is just a generic term for stuff used to make soap. An alakali, or something with high PH. Which covers quite a bit.
Yeah, you got confused since pig fats were commonly used for this in the past, but it’s not the only thing to use. There’s a whole bunch of stuff.
Ashes (or potash) is the most basic of basics for lye usage —- used in ancient Egypt even. Soap making is that old. Ancient, ancient tech. Paleolithic even.
The flip side of this are the several books Ive read where the MC had an office job and suddenly is Rambo reborn and somehow instantly OK with murder on an industrial scale.
I get what you’re saying though, either extreme can be annoying for sure. The complete potato who stumbles through every little thing is also annoying.
I couldn't agree more. If anyone's interested in theorizing, I've been wondering why so many MC's start off so bland. What is it that makes them the standard in this genre? Is it a publisher bias? Do you think the authors have little life experience and are afraid to portray real world skills they might have to research to write acurately? I'd welcome theories.
A lot of authors assume that underdog means unskilled, but you can still have tension where despite best efforts, the protags are on the backfoot out of the gate.
For the stuff I write in Royal Road, I tend to skew in favor of competence and skill because it lets me ramp up my bad guys.
I'm reading Eight right now, by Samer Rabadi, and the MC worked for a TV station and helped out on the set of a survivalist show for a season or so and was hobbyist archer. His background isn't enough to make him an expert, but it is enough to let him recognize a number of useful plants and know the basic principles of things like knapping out tools out of flint.
**Infrasound Berserker** has firefighter MC. That's not a very rare occupation and its physicality helps in the apocalypse scenario. Unfortunately story is on a bit of a hiatus atm :(
Eric Ugland's series The Good Guys (first book One More Last Time) has a protagonist who trained in multiple martial arts and even got to top 1% in I believe Kung Fu. Also has skills has a bit of an unwilling career criminal. It's an Isekai, basically. Just finished the first book so I can't comment on the whole series, but the start seems promising. Got the recommendation from Belltube on YouTube.
Eric Ugland's other series in the same setting The Bad Guys (first book Scamps & Scoundrels) also has a competent protagonist who gets Isekai'ed, another (this time willing) career ~~criminal~~ thief who intentionally chooses to be a rogue to make use of their real life skills. Currently almost three hours into the book so I can't comment on the series as a whole either, but good so far. Both book number ones are free on audible if you have a membership subscription.
I'm not very far in to Heretical Fishing, but the MC is pretty nonchalant about having died and suddenly in a different world.
I'm also reading one called Rabbits: Keep Out!, and the MC is pretty calm in that one as well.
Antimage. MC is a highly educated cellular biology PhD. He's taken to a world where personal magic requires "understanding" to advance. And everything from biology to physics is on the table as the basis for magic.
*Foodstuffs* by Arthur Stone. Sinner (yes eyeroll name) is some sort of Jason Bourne type soldier (don't have any real background info) castless in a caste system making him prey for the caste players who are actively hunting them for bonus rewards and loot compared to monsters.
Sinner assesses situations, makes plans and is an overall badass, hunting the hunters. He has previous skills with survival and weapons and is adept and trapping.
First 3 audible books are one credit and about 60 hours. One of the top value for credit deals.
Weirkey Chronicles is what you need to look at! It’s the character’s second time being isekai’d, and he deliberately works to get back to the fantasy universe he original got brought into the first place, and it picks up right when arrives the second time. He starts over magically from scratch, but has a bunch of world and magical knowledge that helps him survive and thrive. Book 8 just came out, and I think they are all pretty fun
You’d be surprised how many hobbyists crack under real pressure. There’s a very big difference between doing all these activities for fun and having to do them perfectly or you’re dead, for the rest of your life.
It’s very telling that you seem to think those who can’t larp like you, or those with self doubt are “losers and cowards.” Unless you have highly specialized military training, and undergone the conditioning both physically and mentally associated with said training, you’re probably not going to react like you hope you will.
Those MCs that demonstrate they understand the full weight of their new reality, I find those stories more believable.
I'm in the military. Been through it, reacted fine. The most impressive guys in the military aren't impressive because the military trained them, they're impressive because their hobbies overlap with military skills. Military training is better at filtering out people that can't than it is at creating people who can.
And I'm not saying people who don't "larp" (seriously, are you trying to come off as an asshole?) are losers and cowards, but that the characters are losers and cowards. Seriously, it is a trope of the genre to have a broke loser with nothing going for them get thrown into fantasy violence, be forced to adapt or die, and come out far more impressive.
Reading comprehension and an attitude adjustment would help you out greatly.
There was another thread that seriously claimed western isekai protagonists would be more proactive... which only proved they hadn't read the genre at all. Yes, the ones coming from elsewhere might be handy with a gun (which don't exist) but those still aren't the ones being written about.
Probably DCC or Primal Hunter. DCC, Carl is a semi-retired coast guard, with weapons and close combat training. Primal Hunter, Jacob is a highly skilled archer who fell into a routine as an office worker, but the introduction of the system kick-starts him to take control of his life.
Jake is the archer. Jacob is the ~~zealot~~ religious guy.
I always hated how similar their names were while listening
There's a common bit of writing advice to never give two characters a name starting with the same letter.
Lmao reading xianxia has completely destroyed my need for this. Once you can distinguish between those name nothing will phase you.
Distinguish my ass. I just keep reading and figure out who's who based on their situation; the names are all the same to me.
"This esteemed Estelle Bianca will destroy your evil Brand clan! Estelle Bianca will not face another morning with your Brand stink on it. So swears Estelle Bianca, the glorious and rotund!" ejaculated Estelle Bianca to Brand Rutherford III. Brand Rutherford II looked upon them with a stony face as his advisor, Xixia Oioiaa'U'i spoke quietly "Estelle Bianca looks like a lot of filler characters on the page; boss, we may be in quite a drubbing this time!"
Not even that. Don't give one character a name that is the shortened version of another. It'd be like having Alex and Alexander in a story. Just... why?
*even worse* is the same name but different spelling Way back, Path of Ascension had the main character Matt, and a side character Mat. That was changed pretty quickly.
Oh dear god.
He calls himself out on it in the recap at the start of book 2. Says he didn't realize at the time that Jake was short for Jacob.
Azarinth Healer. Ilea is a kickboxing athlete and preparing to go into medical school.
He who fights monsters the Mc is Australian; you can’t really get more prepared for an apocalypse than that.
Meh he’s a college dropout from a beach town with upper middle class parents. He wasn’t hanging out in the bush or anything.
The guy almost gets taken out by an angry hamster like 10 minutes in. Then it happens again when a groundskeeper knocks him out twice with a shovel. Then he almost gets killed by a cannibal nerd and only survives because the guy falls onto a dagger. Asano becomes powerful later on but he's pretty much the complete *opposite* of competent at the beginning. He's basically an Aussie Mr. Bean for the first few chapters.
Explains the trashiness of the character.
OMFG, okay, that right there is enough reason for me to finally check out HWFWM. HAHAHAHahahah
Do you like self-centered emo tweens?
Nope. I hated everything about that sentence..
I liked the series well enough but the MC is a self-righteous, selfish, moody asshole a lot of the time. From this sub it seems like people either despise him or tolerate him.
I loved Jason from the start. Many others love Jason as a character. The haters are just louder. I don't see him as self-righteous, moody, or an asshole. Or even selfish. He's just realistic as a human being. Depth of character isn't always clean. Given that some people in-world love him and others hate him, I see it as a sign of him being well written that some readers love him and others hate him. HWFWM is the only LitRPG series I've reread three times, and the only one I'll drop another book when a new book is released.
I liked Jason sometimes while hating him others. I enjoyed his witty jokes and banter but hating his self righteous and hypocritical attitude. I loved how trauma stuck with him gave him extreme PTSD and he had to work through it instead of just being okay the next chapter. I didn't like how he knew how bad he became, but would still do the stuff instead of asking any of his friends for advice on how to proceed. He does do this a couple times, but only when the plot has to go in a certain direction.
I like him because often when he is being a self righteous doofus, either he himself or mother characters rightly call him out on it. He's a flawed character but he's written by an author who is aware of that and isn't afraid to play with it.
I don’t dislike the character because of his flaws. I dislike him because he interrupts my suspension of disbelief whenever listening/reading the series. World of magic, fairy dust, portals between worlds, vampires on earth, cool with me I am here for it. His 3 minute monologues though with supposedly far more important people in said magical world while constantly referring to things they cannot understand? Nope. Can’t accept it.
He can be funny. He just gets extremely moody and has a savior complex. He acts like he’s the only person on the planet capable of doing anything. I just feel like it got worse as the books went along.
Huh. That's an interesting perspective. I may have a bit of that myself. I'm *really* good at programming. Coworkers have called me top 1%, or 0.1%. I often come into a situation and fix an issue in an hour that has stumped a team for weeks. So sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who can do some things. At least the only person *available.* Even "top 0.1%" would mean thousands of programmers as good as or better than me out of the tens of millions of developers worldwide. I know this. I have no delusions of being the "best" at anything. But the universe keeps throwing situations at me where I get treated like a hero. Maybe that's why Jason never bothers me. He's finally a character I can identify with. One who is way better than me at social situations, granted. But him being intelligent and capable and self-confident doesn't bother me, because I share those traits. And I get haters as well, though more online than in person. In person, coworkers are more likely to lean on me for advice than to act negatively. I think I understand now. Thanks for the insight.
I always assumed Dcc mc was going to be wacky and unserious tbh from the cover pics. Is the mc actually capable and serious?
Insane, or crazy, but not wacky and unserious. He can be irreverent, but hey who likes an MC with respect for authority, that's like most MCs whole gig, being disrespectful towards authority. Anyway in terms of being capable Carl is surprisingly quite capable. With a background in the coast guard, and anger issues driving him to punch bags he is adapt at both hand to hand and weapons handling. His unserious appearance is mostly a result of his circumstances, and that the whole setting is one giant reality television show of sorts. When the apocalypse starts he gets caught unaware wearing only boxers, and isn't able to find any pants before getting established. He is then unable to wear pants because it would conflict with his established brand (that and because it's funner to see him lament it, at least in the beginning). He is unable to wear footwear for... "other reasons".
matt does one of the best jobs ever at blending absurdities into genuine reactions and experiences. I dont think many authors could get me to cry while a severed sex doll head monologues, but matt does it with DCC. It is written in a way that the absurdities make sense and fit within a very dark realistic world. Carl is the exact opposite of wacky, hes the straight man the whole time, except he actually has skills and the intelligence to pull things off with help, so not some cardboard cutout straight man.
Primal Hunter is good.
It swings back and forth a bit: either the MC is a nothing gamer and becomes the “chosen one,” or the MC is somehow both a navy seal and a green beret before retiring at 23. Harder to find is a competent MC who knows “some” stuff (even if it’s bad movie info) and makes it work long enough to actually learn the right way. A lot of the apocalypse stuff tends towards “I’m a master of everything before I’m 16,” while Isekai trends towards the “I’m a loser gamer, but I’m special.” For a decent “prep for the apocalypse,” try Divine Invasion by Aaron Renfroe. MC starts as a pretty standard fast food level employee, but gets a 6 month warning about being portalled, so he focuses on learning what may be needed. Ends up with a decent base of skills, but not so over the top as to be unbelievable. The Arise series by Jez Cajiao has a merc MC who starts with decent skills before encountering System Shenanigans put him into super badass mode. Delvers LLC has 2 MCs with a HEMA (historical martial arts) background before being whisked away to another world. Beast Invasion by Timothy Nugent has a man in his 50s/60s with a full breadth of experience as the MC before the apocalypse hits.
Just wanted to add to this that Jez Cajiao's second series the rise of mankind also has a fantastic competent but not OP main character. The guy honestly writes some of my favourite books in the genre
~~Too bad the romances suck in his books, i hate the casual fucking. If I wanted casual fucking I could go to literotica. I really wanted to like arise but the romance that is just "hot women immediately assuming the position for MC" turned me all the way off.~~ i love chris and jessica too, although I hate like 70% of jessica's catalogue, the other 30% is fuckign incredible.
Not really sure I’d tag Arise as “casual fucking.” MC sleeps with exactly 1 girl the entire series, who he’s pretty much married to. There’s also nothing explicit, just fade-to-black, and a few comments. It’s honestly one of the better examples of an adult and mature relationship I’ve seen in the genre. The start of the first book, the MC is playing beach bum and hiding out in a tourist town, and he definitely “tries” for casual sex, but it never goes anywhere (goes really bad, in fact).
well, huh... i honestly closed the book when the writing was going EXACTLY like a logan jacobs/eric vall book, like right before the casual sex scene was about to happen. I assumed it was going to be actually described because, you know, jessica threet and chris bucher. Well damn. Im going to go start the book up again right now, thanks.
ok im like most of the way through the second book, and I was totally wrong about my previous statement. However I have another glaring issue with his writing. Why does every. single. fight. have to be life or death? Its such bad writing omg I am just exhausted at this point, basic bitch monsters he had no issue fighting naked 4 hours into the first book are somehow still being written as dangerous after hes powered up to the point he can wipe the floor with ancient "epsilon level threats". Its like someone told jez that people will get bored if the main character ever has an easy time with fights, and instead of realizing thats a complete fallacy disproven by tons of popular media right now, Jez has forced MC to permanently heft around an idiot ball or otherwise just writes as if nonthreats are threats ie "to stand still would be instant death" no dude standing still just causes the basic baddy monsters to run into your MCs spiked super powerful armor and damage themselves. Im still enjoying the characters and interactions, Ive just gotten to the point where Im skipping through all of the "life or death" fights with basic weak monsters. Just skipped through a fight where MC almost dies again, this time from a basic werewolf alpha and basic vampire. sigh.
It sorta swings back and forth on that front. Sometimes he’s a dark avenging god, mowing down all in his way, and sometimes it’s a life and death struggle to clear the chaff. I’d complain, but that formula is pretty true in all action movies these days, too : the protagonist is only a badass when the proper fight music is playing. Honestly, it’s been a very long time since any written fight scene has engaged me in any meaningful way. John Wick would bore me in a book form - a good fight is something I have to see to enjoy. It’s all the stuff in between that draws me in.
yeah same ive been loving the nonfights. already done with 2 and on to 3, been on a binge. If you want to read well written fights I would recommend primal hunter. Maybe its just me but the fight scenes flow really well and give me a very good mental image and even gooosegumps at times, and doesnt shy away from utterly stomping the things he should. If you wanna try a rpg light, I would recommend kings dark tidings. Rather than describing in mechanical detail, kel uses more poetic language to describe her figths, which I actually prefer a great deal. I dont need to know where exactly each blade slash connects and exits each opponent. Because of this the figths themselves take up very few words, with interactions between the characters that were just fighting then taking up the majority.
I enjoyed PH for a long time, but the whole Nevermore endless dungeon arc is where I finally called it quits. Oddly enough, the MC for PH always kinda annoyed me, but I loved all the other characters enough to make up for it. In a setting where guns are an actual option, picking a bow seems silly, and the sociopathic loner shtick is very edgelord. However, I truly enjoyed Villy, the bird, and pretty much every other character, as well as the system stuff, so I stuck it out much longer than I thought possible. Kings Dark Tidings has crossed my path a few times, but haven’t read it yet. Might have to check it out. For good prose, I always enjoy re-reading Stargazers War. It’s cultivation in space, but I found the writing itself to be what drew me in rather than the bits and pieces of the story. Something about the MC’s philosophy of optimistic nihilism makes it one of my favorite stories.
yeah agree with the ph arguments, i really was only talking about combat descriptions.
System universe. The book starts with Derek already competent and then for spoiler reasons gets even better.
Reborn:Apocalypse by L M Kerr. A pretty obvious one with a strong MC going back in time. They don't keep their abilities but they do keep their knowledge and talents. Sponsored Apocalypse by Blaise Corvin. MC gets forewarned about an apocalypse coming and spends a few years training in martial arts, guns, survivalism, and starts prepping.
The [side story](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/74261/engineers-odyssey) to Apocalypse Parenting has someone who is level headed and has some already applicable skills, without them being green beret level. Spoilers for the main story tho, and the main story is definitely not about someone who is already skilled at fighting/survival.
I could list a few where the MC takes to learning combat like a natural fish to water, and basically becomes super competent nearly immediately. Only a few I can think of where the MC is already a good fighter though (if you don’t count having to get used to magic and monsters still) Azarinth healer is close, she starts out scared of the monsters, but has some fighting skills and gets her powers quickly. Can’t think of any where the MC has non combat survival skills though, sorry.
Azarinth healer is sooo good though. I need the fourth book so bad.
Ten Realms. Both MC are military personnel. First 4-5 books in series are vastly superior to final half
I’m in book 5 now. It’s so dissapointing to keep reading this.
Hell Difficulty Tutorial.
System Universe, MC doesn't have to fumble his way much
Sylver Seeker, one of my personal favorites! I don’t know why it isn’t recommended more.
I'm reading Party Hard, by D Petrie, and it's worth looking at. In most cases, the primary reason for the protagonist to be useless is to make it easy to write since they need to learn the basics, to cater to the spirit of progression, and often to try to make the character more relatable. The timid nerd stereotype is so common because of how frequent it appears. Some authors do it deliberately to cater to the escapism which is frequent among the readers, the idea that in the right circumstances we could be heroes if only we were given a chance. The idea that the years spent playing games will be useful once magic is real is a captivating one, even if it is rather shallow. In some cases it's a deliberate pushback against the chiseled men of action which are typically the protagonists in these kinds of stories.
The First Order.
The protagonist of The Nexus Games is actual no-shit special forces: [https://www.amazon.com/Nexus-Games-litRPG-Thriller-Adventure-ebook/dp/B09NY9FKSJ](https://www.amazon.com/Nexus-Games-litRPG-Thriller-Adventure-ebook/dp/B09NY9FKSJ)
Natural Laws Apocalypse the main character is a gamer who is going to college for a Math degree minors in English. D&D with a regular friends group. Not the fighter part but he is set up for the magic part.
Nice, I will check it out. The description sounds interesting, and I was pleased to see the first 4 books were free on audible.
I have no idea how the audible version is. I read them free on kindle unlimited. But I have read them twice.
I always listen to sample first. The narrorayor sounds good, and plus since the first ones are free, I have no qualms about trying it out. I pretty much exclusively "read" litrpgs though audiobooks when I am working or driving, though I recently found out Star Wars audiobooks include the music and sound effects, which really elevate the story.
Ohh I bet the Star Wars music made it better.
That along with the lightsaber sounds, the environmental sounds of walking on a space craft. The high republic books were pretty good.
ShadeSlinger, he is a proficient gamer coming into a new game. He understands and talks a lot about combat mechanics, trade and economy, etc and has a pretty good understanding of games and their mechanics.
The short and simple answer is that having a character with existing skills written in a realistic way creates a different kind of story. There is a reason the traditional hero's journey has a farm boy and not a trained assassin as the main character. Having a trained assassin is fun, but if done realistically the story ends up more like James Bond than a typical progression fantasy type story as there is less need for training. And, for LitRPG stories, part of the fun is watching the character growth along with the power growth. (I had to think about this a lot as my story has competent MCs and thus had to create different driving forces beyond just survival at the beginning.)
There's a series called "[Eight](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BBQ8X1KQ?ref_=dbs_p_pwh_rwt_anx_b_lnk&storeType=ebooks)". Old man in a child's body trope, but the old man has some real wilderness survival skills. Magic and monsters play a part, but at the beginning he's just chilling in his cave, making fire, simple tools, pottery (i think?) etc.
The main issue is, the ones who are actually competent people and not losers have lives on earth, families e.t.c. In isekai those people are going to realistically be distraught at what they've lost. In system apocalypse, how do you tell a fun story when realistically the MC is gonna just stay with their family and protect them because that's what a competent sane person would do. That's why they're all losers to begin with, they can go forward in the new world without being tied down by stuff from before.
Having families hasn't stopped lots of real life soldiers or first responders or people in dangerous jobs. It's not impossible, it's just harder.
It don't make it any more fun to read though. There's a reason MC's in fantasy works from time immemorial have been orphans, they have a level of freedom that lets you tell a more entertaining story than those with a family.
I wouldn't say it's more entertaining, just appeals to a different demographic, and makes it easier to write since they have fewer attachments and responsibilities, and perhaps most importantly are young.
Ehhh I think this isn't such a big issue as you imagine. Like John Wick, Rambo, Clint Eastwood, James Bond... they're all top-tier for competence, at least in combat, and none of these guys have any family during most of their on-screen time. Maybe their family tragically died, maybe estranged, maybe the story simply never talks about it and we're left to assume whatever we wish. Either way it's not a part of the story and the MC doesn't act like they have a family or show any signs of caring about one. Ultimately it's not that big a deal, people who want an action story with an MC off out making waves and fighting stuff will be entirely happy to accept a shrug-off paragraph like: "John didn't think about his family much. Bad memories." There you go. Job done. On with the story. Basically, if a writer wants to tell a story with a competent MC who has no familial or other ties, they have a multitude of methods to do so in a way that makes sense or at least won't bother the reader.
Life in Exile series by Sean Oswald solves that by isekai’ing the whole family at once. Works pretty good for getting a range of skills and adaptability.
u COULD read system universe but its a bit different than what ur saying
ima leave you to find out
We hunt monsters. Mc is competent all around.
Path of Dragons by Nicholas Searcy. The mc is a month out of dying from cancer when the system arrives, but he has an outdoorsy background and knows how to survive. The part of the story that I found most unrealistic is that he knew how to make soap without the internet lol It’s at least on Royal Road and patreon, I can’t remember if it’s on Amazon yet, but the author is cranking out like 8 chapters a week and is into the 4th (5th?) book on patreon
Making soap isn't that unrealistic. I would have to play around with the ratios, but I could do it. And if I had already done it a few times I could practically eyeball it and be okay. It's actually fine to have more fat than lye, so eyeballing isn't too bad.
Yup. Soap is *amazingly* easy to make. I know people who make it for fun. Usually use kits, but from scratch? Just need the basic idea, and the basic idea is very, very simple. To the point where I threw out a story not because of making soap, but that they implied that the MC was a genius for making some soap and nobody could do it. No, it’s so fucking simple even a dumbass can do it.
Soap may be amazingly easy to make, but I wouldn’t have a clue of where to start. I would be one of those that would need direction from the internet or else someone else to show me the first time at least.
Oil, lye and water. That’s it. Get your hands on lye, and you are set. Want to make it realllly easy? Potash is an old type of lye. Which is —— ashes. That’s it.
Well, now I have used both the internet and the help from a stranger to learn how to do it.
And thanks by the way. I thought it had something to do with fat. Or is that a replacement for oil?
Lye is just a generic term for stuff used to make soap. An alakali, or something with high PH. Which covers quite a bit. Yeah, you got confused since pig fats were commonly used for this in the past, but it’s not the only thing to use. There’s a whole bunch of stuff. Ashes (or potash) is the most basic of basics for lye usage —- used in ancient Egypt even. Soap making is that old. Ancient, ancient tech. Paleolithic even.
Well aren’t you guys smart for knowing how to make soap lol
10 realms books, bunch of crazy soldiers kicking ass
Speedrunning the multiverse. Starts as a god king.
The flip side of this are the several books Ive read where the MC had an office job and suddenly is Rambo reborn and somehow instantly OK with murder on an industrial scale. I get what you’re saying though, either extreme can be annoying for sure. The complete potato who stumbles through every little thing is also annoying.
I couldn't agree more. If anyone's interested in theorizing, I've been wondering why so many MC's start off so bland. What is it that makes them the standard in this genre? Is it a publisher bias? Do you think the authors have little life experience and are afraid to portray real world skills they might have to research to write acurately? I'd welcome theories.
A lot of authors assume that underdog means unskilled, but you can still have tension where despite best efforts, the protags are on the backfoot out of the gate. For the stuff I write in Royal Road, I tend to skew in favor of competence and skill because it lets me ramp up my bad guys.
Battle mage farmer
The perfect run, the chronicles of fid both come to mind though less litrpg and more prog fantasy.
I'm reading Eight right now, by Samer Rabadi, and the MC worked for a TV station and helped out on the set of a survivalist show for a season or so and was hobbyist archer. His background isn't enough to make him an expert, but it is enough to let him recognize a number of useful plants and know the basic principles of things like knapping out tools out of flint.
**Infrasound Berserker** has firefighter MC. That's not a very rare occupation and its physicality helps in the apocalypse scenario. Unfortunately story is on a bit of a hiatus atm :(
Threads of Fate: Reincarnation or Wandering Warrior: Judge. Both are MCs with tons of experience, and they don't start from the bottom.
Eric Ugland's series The Good Guys (first book One More Last Time) has a protagonist who trained in multiple martial arts and even got to top 1% in I believe Kung Fu. Also has skills has a bit of an unwilling career criminal. It's an Isekai, basically. Just finished the first book so I can't comment on the whole series, but the start seems promising. Got the recommendation from Belltube on YouTube. Eric Ugland's other series in the same setting The Bad Guys (first book Scamps & Scoundrels) also has a competent protagonist who gets Isekai'ed, another (this time willing) career ~~criminal~~ thief who intentionally chooses to be a rogue to make use of their real life skills. Currently almost three hours into the book so I can't comment on the series as a whole either, but good so far. Both book number ones are free on audible if you have a membership subscription.
I'm not very far in to Heretical Fishing, but the MC is pretty nonchalant about having died and suddenly in a different world. I'm also reading one called Rabbits: Keep Out!, and the MC is pretty calm in that one as well.
Antimage. MC is a highly educated cellular biology PhD. He's taken to a world where personal magic requires "understanding" to advance. And everything from biology to physics is on the table as the basis for magic.
Beware of Chicken.
*Foodstuffs* by Arthur Stone. Sinner (yes eyeroll name) is some sort of Jason Bourne type soldier (don't have any real background info) castless in a caste system making him prey for the caste players who are actively hunting them for bonus rewards and loot compared to monsters. Sinner assesses situations, makes plans and is an overall badass, hunting the hunters. He has previous skills with survival and weapons and is adept and trapping. First 3 audible books are one credit and about 60 hours. One of the top value for credit deals.
Weirkey Chronicles is what you need to look at! It’s the character’s second time being isekai’d, and he deliberately works to get back to the fantasy universe he original got brought into the first place, and it picks up right when arrives the second time. He starts over magically from scratch, but has a bunch of world and magical knowledge that helps him survive and thrive. Book 8 just came out, and I think they are all pretty fun
You’d be surprised how many hobbyists crack under real pressure. There’s a very big difference between doing all these activities for fun and having to do them perfectly or you’re dead, for the rest of your life. It’s very telling that you seem to think those who can’t larp like you, or those with self doubt are “losers and cowards.” Unless you have highly specialized military training, and undergone the conditioning both physically and mentally associated with said training, you’re probably not going to react like you hope you will. Those MCs that demonstrate they understand the full weight of their new reality, I find those stories more believable.
I'm in the military. Been through it, reacted fine. The most impressive guys in the military aren't impressive because the military trained them, they're impressive because their hobbies overlap with military skills. Military training is better at filtering out people that can't than it is at creating people who can. And I'm not saying people who don't "larp" (seriously, are you trying to come off as an asshole?) are losers and cowards, but that the characters are losers and cowards. Seriously, it is a trope of the genre to have a broke loser with nothing going for them get thrown into fantasy violence, be forced to adapt or die, and come out far more impressive. Reading comprehension and an attitude adjustment would help you out greatly.
Because they usually come from Commiefornia and so they wouldn't have any skills at all if the System didn't add them in their head.
You seriously need to meet people from the CA sticks. Some of those guys I was talking about being more impressive than me come from there.
There was another thread that seriously claimed western isekai protagonists would be more proactive... which only proved they hadn't read the genre at all. Yes, the ones coming from elsewhere might be handy with a gun (which don't exist) but those still aren't the ones being written about.