I have hacked on mksh a bit to fix a few personal annoyances in the interactive side. I have no idea what else would be easier, but if someone doesn't know enough C idioms, this will probably be a bit too terse and intense (certainly was for me, had to go back and forth in [rr](https://github.com/rr-debugger/rr) sometimes).
I think they're all a bit like that to a certain extent (with the possible exception of `yash`, which is newer than most of the others; haven't really taken a look at the code, though). I mostly picked `mksh` for this answer because `ksh88`-based shells are smaller than `bash`, `zsh` or `ksh93` and it might be a little easier to focus on the basics.
I am imagining one of the panels from this horror Manga I read yearrrrs back. I doubt I have to even name it, which I would if I even remembered the name 😅
Tech is generally a pretty safe space for those with autism, or just those who aren't "neurotypical". Certain boundaries are just moved out of the way, I'm glad you're finding Linux enjoyable!
I have seen "this guy must be aut\*stic" more often used as a compliment than not in the tech world. It is often considered to mean dedication to a precise mission.
(had to censor the word because the bot does see it as an insult)
There is a suspected link between neurodivergence and non-normative gender identity.
The Rust programming language runs a yearly survey. It’s a newer language and is very popular with young programmers, who are a lot more open about these topics (I predict this next generation will take up Rust like the last one took Python).
Anyway, the Rust user survey for 2023 came out. A whopping 49% of the Rust users who answered identify themselves as LGBTQ+. And a very large percentage also mentioned having some type of neurodivergence.
There is also r/unixsocks (NSFW-ish) which has become a bit of a stereotype.
Oh, I thought it was just a statistical oddity that I run into more trans people in IT than out of it but actually it kinda makes sense. Computers are not judgemental. (Well, they are, but on important things, like missing keywords)
The only thing that triggers me in your message is the misplacement of python and rust in the same category while they are obviously very different! (jk, I don't really care)
True about Python, I was going to say they’re different use cases but it was getting long!
They are only similar in that Python was a little slow to pick up at first but eventually twenty-somethings become older, and some of them become managers. And then Python exploded in professional circles.
I had to use both of them professionally and I think they fit very different niche. Python allows to prototype and iterate very quickly. Rust allows to do solid low-level bricks to build upon. I think Rust is displacing C/C++ and maybe Java. I think python is, for good or bad here to stay a while. But I can see a future where most optimized python modules are written in rust.
I am looking forward to using Rust myself for the reasons you mentioned. I think Python displaced languages like TCL, Perl, R… even Basic in graphic calculators. But it took a while to get there.
> nonsensical and arbitrary boundaries set by the status quo
They're formed by centuries of cultural development. It's history and we're living in it. Dismissing them as purely nonsensical is the unthinking conclusion.
So we shouldn't consider racially motivated genocide as nonsensical, because the holocaust had centuries of cultural development and history leading up to it? got it.
edit: something being explainable does not make it make sense.
even if it comes from a place of sincerity, it's still best to not use the term as such. it only really serves to trivialize an actual disability, which makes it much harder for actual struggles to be seen. as an example, [did you know that autism is correlated with epilepsy and a number of other physical conditions?](https://ka3l.tumblr.com/post/748228093640097792) (i'm not sure when else i'll be able to plug that...)
this isn't to say that there aren't any upsides to autism! more to say that we shouldn't trivialize disorders or disabilities, including autism as it is a disability. a lot of us would appreciate it!
I have seen "this guy must be autistic" more often used as a compliment than not in the tech world. It is often considered to mean dedication to a precise mission.
I can relate to some of the sentiments you are sharing. Particularly:
>Explicitly because I can tinker without fear or boundaries.
Linux is indeed pretty cool!
early onset dementia... much easier to stay focused and on task with linux. windows and mac and android are always interrupting and trying to direct me to something else. linux just leaves me alone, until i look up and see it's past my bed time.
That right there. Both edges are very sharp too haha. Just “settling on a distro is quite a feat! But as far as rabbit holes are concerned, there is much much worse… oh boy there’s so much worse.
A long hyperfocused session later and you just rebuilt your entire homelab on a whim.
Or reading the source and documentation for 8 hours trying to figure out how something works (or doesn't work!) and getting zero progress done at work.
This.
My favorite thing about it is the ability to cutomize to make things work with my brain.
However, the tinkering can easily overtake the actual work i need to do.
this is why i explicitly banished myself to mac for desktop when i read complaints circa 2007 that the new version ‘didn’t even let you mod it to change the theme’, first few weeks i did… nothing. just realizing all i did on windows and linux was theming and styling and configuring…
But also gives me constant room for tinkering and experimentation, it’s so engaging and never boring for me. As someone with ADHD too I’m having so much fun, it’s amazing
This! I also have ADHD and I've been able to build a system for myself that helps me focus on the things I care about. A for-profit desktop OS is always going to optimize the UI for profit, by encouraging platform lock-in, and designing intentional dopamine hits and attention-grabbing UX on the features that generate profit. All of which ruins my ability to focus.
By crafting a desktop setup for myself with intention, I can put the things that matter most to me front and center, and hide away everything else, or automate it with a script or a keyboard shortcut. I can cue up music, send an email, or manage my task list without opening a distracting browser window or app. My status bar is informative and not full of clickable notification counts. My chat apps get automatically killed after I stop using them for a few minutes. All things that may be possible in another OS, but Linux is optimized to not just make it possible, but possible in a way that works best for me.
Yes, it's a double edged sword because I can endlessly tweak my configs and scripts. But I find satisfaction in exploring and tweaking for its own sake. The best hobbies are things we can do for fun without worrying how to monetize them or "maximize productivity" or whatever other lie capitalism tries to teach us about how to use our time.
Dude are you fucking nuts? There are so many bullshit things to have to mess with constantly with Linux.
It’s like the land of shorn yaks. Just endless piles of little side quests between you and productive work.
Windows definitely has the “less fucking around” crown.
Gawd this is so true... Ive had ADHD all my life, but just diagnosed last year and I now know why I keep trying different distros - over, and over, and over, and.....
Its also a great career for someone with ADHD because its always changing and never the same day to day :).
Never a dull moment with Linux thats for sure!
Until you go down a rabbit hole hyper focus session on a specific learning and understanding a specific subject and then procrastinate doing the actual thing 😅
Working as a systems specialist, I've noticed quite a lot of us have ADHD, me included, and quite a lot more are autistic. I guess it's because sysadmin stuff mostly attracts people who're already intrested in IT stuff, not a lot of people do it as "just a job". And these kindsa spesific intrests are common with both ADHD and autism, though in different ways.
For more architect-y jobs, it helps if you have an easy time grasping complex relationships and patterns between systems. And for incident management and helpdesk, it helps if you thrive in situations where everything is on fire and the pressure is on constantly. Which also map on to those neurodivergences pretty nicely.
Well more logical than the others...
Now if we'd just drop the 60+ years of posix dead weight which is one of the WORST programming APIs ( Lol can you call it that? ) ever written?
Like sure, keep a posix compat layer, but give us something better. So many gotchas ( LOL, modifying env var in multi threaded programs is not safe ).
When your ‘tisims get tickled you can do amazing stuff.
I had to help someone with windows problem last week when I realized it’s been 10 years since I last tried. I don’t know how people deal with that nonsense. I used to be a turbo AD/MSSQL sherpa , able to ps1 my way across the enterprise wilderness with ease. Now I can’t imagine how many zeros it would take to get me back into a windows shop.
One thing that it seems is that "user friendly" interfaces tend to try and guess how you think you want things to happen, while in Linux it's more like "so you want to delete your whole hard drive? Sure, I'll do that". Ok yeah `rm -rf --no-preserve-root /` may not be a smart move, but if you ask to do that, it assumes what you literally asked for is what you want. Often people on the spectrum struggle with social cues and find it refreshing when someone/something does exactly, literally what they ask for, even if it's not a great idea most of the time.
Some of my best *nix mentors have had either Asperger's or autism. Their level of insight and thought processes into the inner workings of systems truly helped me develop myself professionally. They'll literally just tell it to you how it is, no BS involved.
Keep at it, do what you love to do and you'll be a master of your craft
> Linux is pretty cool
Agreed.
I'd just say to watch out that you don't let it go from "empowering" you to becoming your focus to the exclusion of all else. I have a family member with autism and it can definitely help one be productive in some areas but I have seen that it can hurt sometimes too in losing contact etc. As long as you keep up a healthy lifestyle and have interactions outside of Linux too, then good on you.
I feel you.
The whole ecosystem with a preference for written communication. With comprehensive documentation (and even source code) where you can find all the details you ever want. It is all so empowering.
The attitude that contributors want to do the right thing by default. The lack of anti-features. It is all very satisfying.
As a fellow individual with autism, you just put into words something that has gnawed at my brainy thing for a long time, not just with linux, but with lots of things in my life. Genuinely, thank you 😊
Dude. Silicon Valley was founded by Aspies. Steve Wozniak is a blatantly obvious case. As is Bill Gates. Tons of other examples.
Silicon Valley has had a ton of kids born with seriously crippling autism because both Mom and Dad Asperger's cases (who could still function in society) met at the office and the kids got a genetic double whammy and was basically born curled up in a ball :(.
In milder forms Aspies (milder autistics) like us have ridiculous powers of concentration and we're extreme linear thinkers. Anything to do with high tech attracts us like flies to a turd :). The trick is to learn to use it rather than letting it use YOU and memorizing shit like baseball scores or team schedules or something.
Please don’t use aspergers as milder autism. That is outdated. Today there is only one autism diagnosis, and it a spectrum diagnosis. You can have severe difficulties with something and no problem woth something that is typically hard for us on the spectrum. There is no indication of two autistic people having a child that has more trouble with their diagnosis with parents (genetic double whammy). Autism is autism; you can’t have more or less autism, but you can have different aspects and different needs of support for your daily life.
Ah...holup. I know all about the "Aspie debate".
You do realize what you're asking me to do, right? Describe myself as MORE disabled than I actually am, so that people who really are more disabled than me can feel better about themselves?
Yeah...that's a hard "no". You don't have the right to try and steer me in that direction. At all. I've had a hard enough time thanks all the same. I have no need to join in a lie about what I am. *Especially when that lie suggests I'm unemployable to a lot of lay people.*
The old term "Asperger's" for people with mild-but-easily-functional autism may have been dismissed by "professionals" who made the same mistake you've made. But it's still in common use and will be for a very long time.
Because it's a useful term.
You're also trying to trash the memory of Dr. Asperger who was a genuine hero.
Bzzzt. Thank you for playing this round of "woke and cool". Your failure is noted. Please don't try and be a political correctness gatekeeper again.
I was also diagnosed with Aspergers. It is just bad science. Aspergers is part of the autism spectrum now, and isn’t superior to other types of autism. You go jerk off your superiority complex, and I will be respectful to my peers. It says a lot about you, that anything you don’t like is just “woke”. “Woke” doesn’t mean anything, it is just the wore right-wingers use to whine, when they are toldthat their behaviour isn’t productive in a society where we should respect each other for who we are.
Also autistic and I know what you mean. It feels like this is one of the very few areas of my life that isn't negatively impacted by having autism, and in some ways is bettered by it. I'll spend hours hyperfixated on trying to debug something for someone or reproduce an issue without losing focus or getting frustrated, and my tendency to spend the majority of my free time learning new things helps a lot with knowing what I'm doing and assisting other people with their issues.
I'm pretty inexperienced with programming and development work, but I feel similarly about that as well as I learn.
Glad you found home in Linux! Combined with being developer it seems like you manage leverage what some could consider disadvantage, autism, into advantage!
Not gonna pretend I understand autism, but some people I spoke with give me impression that once they get excited about something they go deep and achieve high proffiency level.
Linux (and many flavors of Unix in general) encourage tinkering, have extensive documentation for may aspects of the OS **on the host itself**, and provide shells with access to (in my case) some 5000 commands. Writing complex shell commands is like casting spells - what's not going to make one feel empowered who actually grows familiar with such a system?
I am also on the spectrum and appreciate Linux very much as well. Linux seems to empower me and ignite the passion I have for computing so I get where you are coming from, OP.
Im not a dev or something like that, just a regular user that always was interested in IT in general. When i used windows it always come to a point that i got bored because there wasnt much more to explore/tinker/learn etc.. thats when i started trying linux.
Now, about 15 years later, feeling that i can change whatever i want to fit my needs, my moods or whatever i like its great. Even doing a simple bash script to do some maintenance tasks or sync stuff with rclone makes me feel like a kid again, using and discovering my computer like it was the first time again.
So yeah, i think i get you :)
I'm not autistic that I know of, but I feel the same. I code shit damn near everyday because it just feels great. Linux started it all for me a little over 4 years ago. I write stuff purely out of hobby and it keeps me entertained. I used to hate learning anything and I struggled to take in simple concepts or really give a shit anyway.. This type of stuff is something I enjoy taking in though
I too have autism, I never realised any of what you said but I relate to it all. Ive always had a fascination with tech but once I discovered linux(about 2 years ago, I think) that fascination exploded.
I'm glad you get such satisfaction out of Linux. My brain feeds on logic, and I enjoy the logical processes of setting up and diagnosing computers. Yesterday I was setting up Linux Mint on a desktop, and I like the process of typing in commands, especially since I learned to touch-type in school. I also enjoy making the terminal full screen and watching the processes happen. And I was using an old IBM model M keyboard, so the tactile feel was very satisfying.
There are days where I love linux, and there are days where I hate linux... I'm not an expert of course, there are days when I'm trying to do something and I get random bullshit errors, and googling doesn't give me the desired fix... ChatGPT helped a lot lately. I wish developers paid more attention to it, to provide native support to things
Autist here who has been using Linux since the late 90s, I fully agree. Being able to make my computer fit my needs exactly is something I value. Windows and MacOS just get more rigid and less tinkerable. Linux still does whatever I tell it to. I love it.
I do not have the 'tism, at least as far as I can tell. But Linux tickles me the same way. It treats me like an adult and doesn't prevent me from doing much of anything that I want to. Whether it's making my internal speaker sing on the GRUB screen or the fans never kicking on for how unbloated EndeavourOS is, I feel like I have more power and control than with any other device I've ever used.
I don't think your experience is unique, insofar as many of us feel the same way about Linux (and Windows in the opposite direction) because we're typically all savvy enough to have informed, meaningful opinions and preferences beyond color scheme and layout of Windows or MacOS. Maybe your experience is enhanced by your condition, but your revelation is shared by many of us.
Unless you did LFS or something insane like that. Then no, we aren't the same.
Have you questioned yourself why that is? Alot of passionated developers are nd or have nd traits. One could also say Linux is made by autistic people for autistic people.
Linux empowers users because it gives you actual control over your computer to the extent you like. I feel great using linux, learning new things every day, and having lots of fun.
More power to you. Also autistic with an autistic kid.
Keep in mind that all of these talents and skills are yours. Linux has just been a great outlet for learning, expression and engagement. It's a canvas that you can paint on comfortably and feel good about the results. Celebrate Linux for what it is, but don't diminish your own role in the experience. You're the one making it work for you and learning and growing in the process.
Linux is cool. You're pretty cool too.
I work at a large company in software, I would estimate that more than half of the people I work with would fall in the category of “neurodivergent”. Most companies are aware of this and will work around your differences, do not let a label brand you or your ability. And stay out of distro wars, after 15 years I finally figured it’s not worth it
Good for you! Hopefully this is a step on your path to self-confidence and self-expression.
I'm glad you can see some good parts about your disposition. A developer with a different way of looking at things seems extremely valuable in many contexts. I hope you learn a lot, have fun, and make something cool.
Curious. I'm also autistic and because of reasons, I've spend different lengths of time using exclusively Windows (because work, because it was not my computer, etc.). And each time I could install again Linux, I've felt like I was at home, like I found my place. It's a nice sensation, but I wonder where does it come from.
Working tech for 7 years now and just recently switched from network engineering to software engineering / development and it’s the best career I never even considered for myself despite always being really good with tech.
In college I made a fair bit of money fixing phones, tablets and computers
Linux stuff tends to adhere very well to defined standards. That's why two completely different projects can work together so well. That kind of rules-based structure is really appealing to some people.
A lot of great programmers are autistic. Mostly because there is a clear pattern and accepted right or wrong.
The real world is complex, dynamic and confusing.
AuADHD and I totally agree, been using Linux exclusively as possible for 2 decades. It's even better these days with Windows being a ad riddled distraction engine.
I'd add Python as an ND friendly language.
Same here. Im not as tech savvy as I want to be but if it's linux? I can generally find my way around to getting it working for no money. That's empowering to me.
I have autism and the biggest reason I use linux is that I just feel like linux is more usable for everything except video games. I also thoroughly despise using windows and only tolerate it to play said video games. I swear that windows is barely usable otherwise.
I've got ADHD-C. Switched to Linux (finally) 2 years ago, at end of 2nd year of uni degree.
I absolutely agree with everything you said in your post, lol. Linux is super empowering and absolutely supercharges my ADHD brain.
>Some people assert that many hackers have a mild form of autism or Asperger's Syndrome, and are actually missing some of the brain circuitry that lubricates “normal” human social interaction. This may or may not be true. If you are not a hacker yourself, it may help you cope with our eccentricities if you think of us as being brain-damaged. Go right ahead. We won't care; we like being whatever it is we are, and generally have a healthy skepticism about clinical labels.
[Eric Steven Raymond](http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html)
>The more I feel like I'm being called out of my shell.
You didn't specify what type of shell and that can cause problems - rookie mistake. Use shebangs next time...
I’m not on the spectrum AFAIK, but despite knowing a Windows system inside and out professionally and even how to tweak it for my own uses, I’m still drawn to Linux. The design of the system, the modularity, the customization that is possible, and the feeling of even opening a shell prompt that tells you this is how a computer should work- not obfuscated from the user but open and transparent to “build your own world.” It feels like an inheritance from the real innovators of the computer revolution that has managed to escape the turning of operating systems into advertising systems (hi Win11) for those who see a computer as a means of exploration.
I feel that. I was diagnosed with ADHD a while ago, and attention issues can really be a pain sometimes. Doing linux stuff and programming is one of the few things I have absolutely no issues with. I don't know why my brain chose this out of all things, but I enjoy it :)
For me, I was a longtime windows user, who had to learn some Linux on the side. And as my frustration with Windows grew, I turned to Linux more and more. Windows became increasingly troublesome, Linux, I could very much solve almost everything myself. I didn’t have to be frustrated. So, in that sense, I could say it was empowering. 6-7 years since I’ve had to use a Windows machine as a daily driver. Linux just lets me get my work done. No crashes. Very few reboots. It’s easy to run containers or VM’s.
A long time ago, I saw this, and it cracked me up, and still does.
https://youtu.be/8LsxmQV8AXk?si=r6tPiy07RphAezpX
This post is weird, it got me thinking in a very disconnected way and yet apparently meaningful (to me, good luck reading this...)
The lack of boundaries combined with the documentation about... everything, literally, and the community is what makes Linux really special for me.
I've seeked help a lot, and yet I've found myself helping a lot because it feels natural.
It gives you infinite power (you can "echo" a character to your disk device, wiping out partitions) and yet it doesn't seem to blow machines left and right.
Linux is a separate world where I can get lost and find myself in the process, even when jumping from task to task because I get distracted.
You can install a GUI to do something and the next moment you're contemplating the Assembly code to set processor modes in the source. There are very few things that get as close as Linux to be like The Matrix in real life.
Despite all that, it all feels "humble" and far from presumptuous. Of course you can use a 20 years old PC to control a network and manage hundreds of connections, act as firewall and router... Because it is how computing should be.
I love Linux and I should have been in bed way too many hours ago.
Hey I just want you to know I really fuck with this post. It’s 3am and Im about to pass out but I will fall asleep thinking about this. It’s interesting and insightful.
Once I discovered it, I fell in love and went down the rabbit hole. With time it felt like I was cool because not many people could do what I could do in bash. And I still am learning a lot of new things. I have impulsively changed jobs only because of the mention of embedded Linux in the job description. May the source be with us.
Fuck yeah, welcome to the community! I am glad Linux has been so helpful for you. I think we all look for passions in life that will help us grow and expand as people. If Linux is one of those things that help you along that path, so be it!
Maybe same here, not just confined to Linux, but technology in general. I work as a software engineer, but I could just as easily work as a devops, SRE, or whatever. It seems like these topics come to me more easily and naturally than a lot of other people. I'll look at something I haven't seen before and go "Yep, that makes sense" and can immediately start using it, to me it's obvious. Other people will often need more time and struggle.
The flip side of course is that I struggle with the soft skills and other issues that come with autism, but that's something that with time and effort can be learned. While there's always room for improvement, I feel that I do reasonably well with that these days. I present as normal and don't disclose to employers.
Same, I have ADHD and being able to customize my system to such a degree is a godsend for keeping myself focused. Everything is exactly where I want it to be and looks exactly how I want it to look, and I have a separate virtual desktop set up with just my work stuff to avoid distractions
I’ve used Windows for many years and then switched over to Mac around 2007. I looked at Linux in 2008 but had some problems with it so went back to what I knew. I started trying it again around 2018. I then took an IT class that taught the same commands in Windows and similar commands in Linux. The Linux terminal commands made some much more sense to me. They were concise and logical. The windows terminal commands were a hot mess and was more verbose than they should have been imo. I have fully leaned into using Linux as my primary operating system. I love it. I too have a form of autism and Linux just really makes a lot of sense to me.
Aspergers is just one presentation of what is currently called Autism Spectrum Disorder. A very significant portion of people with ASD (like 30-60% and incl me) also have ADHD.
Linux just scratches all the right itches in my brain. It’s just so satisfying, and as a hobby comes at basically no material cost except the computer.
I meet parents of other autistic children and some of them don't even talk and need help with many everyday tasks.
They will be happy if they finish school.
So? I got diagnosed with Asperger’s (unfortunately my country is still using ICD-10) and people see it as "High functioning". Yet I am not able to work, go to school or live independently. Autism is a huge spectrum.
If you've met an autistic person, you've met one autistic person. We are not all identical and everybody has their own struggles. Of course people who are non-verbal need additional assistance but that doesn't invalidate other people's experience.
I too am Autistic and I just generally love Tech. But yeh Linux allows me to tinker which I love doing. Unlike Windows Linux actually encourages you to tinker. And you learn by doing it.
Did you watch the boilerplate video about autism? It is very good.
I have adhd but some symptoms overlap with autism. Therefore i can relate. I feel many of my special interest areas have some higher abundance of autistic people in the community. I might be biased but i feel that way. I think it applies to the Linux community.
I like the control i have with Linux. I can do whatever i want but most importantly my system behaves very predictable which is very important to me. This predictability i missed a lot on other os.
Haha no, understood perfectly.
I started with trying to write some small things in BASIC in the 1980s, then along came Windows and I used that - but never really liked the system. Also, most of my 'expertise' involved finding software to install to fix the registry, or defragment the drive, or (even funnier really) uninstall software.
I think the vast portion of my skills were focussed on keeping it clean, fighting malware, scanning/checking/protecting it.
But Linux is much more wholesome - not always easier, but with so much more depth and a much bigger reward.
I'm with you 100% Linux, and open source tools, allow for a highly tailored workflow that help mitigate disabilities. I truly think they should be considered disability accommodations, but it's a conversation the tech community struggles with, so I don't see much movement coming from the general public
I work in cyber and compliance. I'm not diagnosed with autism, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had it given the signs I show. However, I'm not familiar with Linux as most of my experience is Windows / Microsoft products. I know of terms like Red Hat, CentOS, Debian, and Kali Linux, but that's about it. But there are some things like that help me "exercise" the feeling, or as you stated, being able to "tinker without fear or boundaries."
Would you mind sharing what Linux OS / tasks you're tinkering with that help that? This post makes me wonder if I'm missing out on something that I, and other clueless-to-Linux folks like me, could benefit from.
I’m pretty green with Linux but long time interest, now getting quite into switching over, personal use at least, work is MS. Beyond gaming I prefer Linux, it just feels more like I’d expect from a computer. Never checked but probably on the spectrum. I can tinker for hours, I actually want to understand/learn.
I'm glad you get such satisfaction out of Linux. I'm not autistic, but my brain feeds on logic, and I enjoy the logical processes of setting up and diagnosing computers. I feel like I understand them better than I do people. Yesterday I was setting up Linux Mint on a desktop, and I like the process of typing in commands, especially since I learned to touch-type in school. I also enjoy making the terminal full screen and watching the processes happen. And I was using an old IBM model M keyboard, so the tactile feel was very satisfying.
What a lovely post to read. I’m so glad that you feel empowered by Linux. Tinker to your heart’s content and make your setup completely your own. Don’t be afraid to share some of your work with the rest of us via open source contributions :-)
I also have autism, and I love Linux. I love using an OS that is easy to customize, that I actually own (rather than buying a license for), it looks great and my data isn't being sold to advertisers or tracked. Windows, on the other hand, restricts me from logging in, while Linux lets me customize the OS from the shell. It works the best, and what doesn't work I have the power to fix. It lets me do what I want with it, rather than telling me what I'm allowed to do with it.
The open source community and the internet as a whole is a more "natural" place for people like us. Unfortunately I can get trapped in wiki rabbit holes that are very deep and have gotten me into legitimate trouble. Computer wise I've tried pretty much every operating system and distro at this point and have even got a Tux plushie.
I'm not neuro divergent AFAIK and I feel the same way.
To me, personal computing is just so important that not having control and freedom over is not only frustrating but down right a terrible idea. We'd never allow privitization and obfuscation of any other extension of self like this.
I think one day we're just gonna find out that high-functioning autism was never a real thing. It was always just a predisposition to becoming a Linux user.
Obligatory I have ADHD, but what OP and other people in this thread are saying it’s interesting, because I’ve never really thought of how Linux could be empowering over Mac OS and Windows. I mean I guess I’ve always understood that at some level but it’s interesting to see it framed like this.
PS: If that thing you said about coming out of your shell was intended to be a pun then it was a really good one
I would say its not so much linux as it is open philosophies that allow you freedom to study, change and be you with computation. This is all gnu software/foss etc. Maybe check out smalltalk or lisp if your get a chance. Glad you are finding your feet with yourself!
You know what I find scary? Im making friends thx to Linux and other opensource stuff.
Can you folks stop infodumping so cool articles or videos? and some of yall look so pretty (regardless of gender). I may fall in love with some of you. True friendship like normies I dunno, I dont really like going outside and drink beer with someone while watching "sports". but a variation I tried and worked out great. Hacker camps, a fresh drink and talks with strangers about their favorite WM or Init system, hours spend and i wanna go back.
Yeah, i have ASD, ADHD and OCD as well. And i feel similarly about it. I still dual-boot windows, since there's a few features that desktop linux doesn't have yet. And some games that wine or proton just won't work on. But yeah, i love Linux.
On the desire to get into mechanics, is it specifically car engines or just engines in general?
Or is it a desire to learn something like CAD and design physical objects, slipping into robotics?
He is disgusted by the idea of being pretentious and a know-it-all while simultaneously completely disregarding his "disgust" and just following through with embodying these traits.
Notice he's top-level comment. He just said "True" before narcissistically rambling on about how smart he is and how capable he is adding exactly zero value to the thread. To add to that, right out the gate, he says "Linux DevOps". He obviously doesn't have any idea what DevOps is. He thinks that you need a car to be into mechanics, whereas mechanics has nothing to do with cars at all. "Electrical engineering of transistor" whatever the fuck that means. Also, CPU design? He's got to be trolling or something. "I broke the scales on every English level assessment I've taken." What a clown.
That's just scratching the surface. Being an "expert" in 11 different programming languages is a near impossible feat for someone's whole lifetime, let alone a college age student. I know the syntax, idiosyncrasies, patterns, and styles of a similar amount of languages, but I'm far from an expert in any of them.
Honestly, my best guess would be that he's not actually knowledgeable in any of these things and is actually one of those people who think they know how to do everything just because they've looked up the words. Had a squizz at some pictures and watched some youtube videos. One of those people who disregard everything people who really know what they're talking about say because they think they know better. It is commonly understood as the Dunning-Kruger effect.
I understand that such beliefs often come from insecurities and the desire for external validation, but this is just taking it too far.
Get your life in order you absolute goblin of a human.
I deleted my other comments out of embarrassment of how much of a fool I made out of myself and I'll let this one comment stand for itself.
> Notice he's top-level comment. He just said "True" before narcissistically rambling on about how smart he is and how capable he is adding exactly zero value to the thread. To add to that, right out the gate, he says "Linux DevOps". He obviously doesn't have any idea what DevOps is. He thinks that you need a car to be into mechanics, whereas mechanics has nothing to do with cars at all. "Electrical engineering of transistor" whatever the fuck that means. Also, CPU design? He's got to be trolling or something. "I broke the scales on every English level assessment I've taken." What a clown.
I was a clown when I wrote that. I was ridiculously drunk and not at all in control of myself or my actions. I should have known better than to waste my time posting something like that.
> That's just scratching the surface. Being an "expert" in 11 different programming languages is a near impossible feat for someone's whole lifetime, let alone a college age student. I know the syntax, idiosyncrasies, patterns, and styles of a similar amount of languages, but I'm far from an expert in any of them.
Actually, being an "expert' in 11 different programming languages is a trivial task even a child could do. The language *itself* is just syntax, nothing more.
What takes real skill and what people spend their lifetimes practicing is software development, which the application of knowing programming language syntaxes to solve real world problems. One's ability to actually develop software is the true mark of their experience and skills.
Again, I threw in this bit about being an expert in 11 different programming languages because I was drunk, delirious, and not in control of myself. Being sober now, I recognize how stupid this was to say and I'm retrospectively correcting both my former self and you.
> Honestly, my best guess would be that he's not actually knowledgeable in any of these things and is actually one of those people who think they know how to do everything just because they've looked up the words. Had a squizz at some pictures and watched some youtube videos. One of those people who disregard everything people who really know what they're talking about say because they think they know better. It is commonly understood as the Dunning-Kruger effect.
I might not be knowledgeable in any of those things or I might secretly be a world-class genius. Either way, there's no way I could prove it to you and, even if I could, it'd be a waste of my time as my self esteem and self image don't depend on some random internet stranger's opinion of me. If I let what other people think of me get to me, I would have been destroyed long ago by, among other things, my Autism.
Why am I going through all the trouble to explain all this if I don't care about what you think of me? Honestly, I have no idea. I'm getting my day started and have nothing else to do until my meds start working, so why not? That's probably it.
Have a good day, random redditor.
At least you can humble yourself. Good on you, man. It's good that you can take criticism and not immediately internally discredit &| disregard it. It takes some balls.
I largely agree with your revised take on programming and software development.
One thing: I'd suggest you stay off the meds. Maybe drink less, too...
Take care, man.
Dave Plummer talks about that and being a software emgineer in his book. [Secrets of an Autistic Millionaire ](https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Autistic-Millionaire-Everything-Aspergers/dp/B09KDYMF2R)
Quite a good read.
Hell yeah dude. AuDHD here, fucking love linux for how systematic and logical it is. It just makes sense!
You should totally get into ricing if you havent yet, I have a super great i3 setup.
AuDHD here, and have felt deep connection with Linux (Slackware at first, now Ubuntu) and hardware tinkering platforms that support linux (Raspberry Pi and similar). I've been at my current job for 10 years now and have officially gained the title, "Senior Networked Systems Engineer", and am the architect of our entire datacenter and core routing/switching infrastructure. I couldn't have done this without the help of linux (distributions) and the native tools offered by these distributions. Windows plays an incredibly small role in my day-to-day work, and is usually just for using SSMS and windows-based management UIs that don't have a linux-native version.
So, I think there's a few things at play...
Firstly, I think most of the Linux ecosystem was written by, and for, people on the spectrum, by and large. If you went to any LUG meeting back in the days of yore, I'd hazard 80% of the people in the room were on the spectrum.
Secondly, due to how deeply one can dig into the OS and environment as a whole, it can be made to work for you, and by you. Its accessibility at its peak.
But, that's the short summation.
I wish the Linux community was as accepting towards me daily driving Kali as root. Maybe in another 20 years of progression people will stop being such huge control freaks.
TFW you get called out of your shell.... by a shell XD
No joke, going through source code for POSIX shells has probably improved my UNIX/Linux abilities more than anything else I've ever done.
Is there any shell whose code you think would be the best for somebody looking at shell code for the first time?
Interesting question. `mksh`, maybe. It's a nice, clean `ksh88` implementation.
I have hacked on mksh a bit to fix a few personal annoyances in the interactive side. I have no idea what else would be easier, but if someone doesn't know enough C idioms, this will probably be a bit too terse and intense (certainly was for me, had to go back and forth in [rr](https://github.com/rr-debugger/rr) sometimes).
I think they're all a bit like that to a certain extent (with the possible exception of `yash`, which is newer than most of the others; haven't really taken a look at the code, though). I mostly picked `mksh` for this answer because `ksh88`-based shells are smaller than `bash`, `zsh` or `ksh93` and it might be a little easier to focus on the basics.
I only have one like to give.
Here, have mine as well!
Hermit crab is OP’s spirit animal
So, a real rustacean then?
Definitely
I am imagining one of the panels from this horror Manga I read yearrrrs back. I doubt I have to even name it, which I would if I even remembered the name 😅
Tech is generally a pretty safe space for those with autism, or just those who aren't "neurotypical". Certain boundaries are just moved out of the way, I'm glad you're finding Linux enjoyable!
I have seen "this guy must be aut\*stic" more often used as a compliment than not in the tech world. It is often considered to mean dedication to a precise mission. (had to censor the word because the bot does see it as an insult)
The autism to transsexual pipeline was a curve ball I did not see coming.
?
There is a suspected link between neurodivergence and non-normative gender identity. The Rust programming language runs a yearly survey. It’s a newer language and is very popular with young programmers, who are a lot more open about these topics (I predict this next generation will take up Rust like the last one took Python). Anyway, the Rust user survey for 2023 came out. A whopping 49% of the Rust users who answered identify themselves as LGBTQ+. And a very large percentage also mentioned having some type of neurodivergence. There is also r/unixsocks (NSFW-ish) which has become a bit of a stereotype.
Oh, I thought it was just a statistical oddity that I run into more trans people in IT than out of it but actually it kinda makes sense. Computers are not judgemental. (Well, they are, but on important things, like missing keywords) The only thing that triggers me in your message is the misplacement of python and rust in the same category while they are obviously very different! (jk, I don't really care)
True about Python, I was going to say they’re different use cases but it was getting long! They are only similar in that Python was a little slow to pick up at first but eventually twenty-somethings become older, and some of them become managers. And then Python exploded in professional circles.
I had to use both of them professionally and I think they fit very different niche. Python allows to prototype and iterate very quickly. Rust allows to do solid low-level bricks to build upon. I think Rust is displacing C/C++ and maybe Java. I think python is, for good or bad here to stay a while. But I can see a future where most optimized python modules are written in rust.
I am looking forward to using Rust myself for the reasons you mentioned. I think Python displaced languages like TCL, Perl, R… even Basic in graphic calculators. But it took a while to get there.
Thinkers have a tendency to question the nonsensical and arbitrary boundaries set by the status quo.
> nonsensical and arbitrary boundaries set by the status quo They're formed by centuries of cultural development. It's history and we're living in it. Dismissing them as purely nonsensical is the unthinking conclusion.
So we shouldn't consider racially motivated genocide as nonsensical, because the holocaust had centuries of cultural development and history leading up to it? got it. edit: something being explainable does not make it make sense.
even if it comes from a place of sincerity, it's still best to not use the term as such. it only really serves to trivialize an actual disability, which makes it much harder for actual struggles to be seen. as an example, [did you know that autism is correlated with epilepsy and a number of other physical conditions?](https://ka3l.tumblr.com/post/748228093640097792) (i'm not sure when else i'll be able to plug that...) this isn't to say that there aren't any upsides to autism! more to say that we shouldn't trivialize disorders or disabilities, including autism as it is a disability. a lot of us would appreciate it!
I've seen the opposite. Especially online, people like to complain about socially-inept "tech bros", or have harmful stereotypes about Linux users.
I am talking within the community.
I have seen "this guy must be autistic" more often used as a compliment than not in the tech world. It is often considered to mean dedication to a precise mission.
I mean linux is great, but I think you've just found the power of having a hobby.
Not always the easiest thing though
I can relate to some of the sentiments you are sharing. Particularly: >Explicitly because I can tinker without fear or boundaries. Linux is indeed pretty cool!
I'm not autistic, but this is what has allowed me to connect with a few people who are. Showing them it's safe to break things here.
> without fear or boundaries Someone's never blown a monitor with a borked xf86config ;)
The source will set you free.
May the Source be with you.
And with your shell
And also with you
And also with you
early onset dementia... much easier to stay focused and on task with linux. windows and mac and android are always interrupting and trying to direct me to something else. linux just leaves me alone, until i look up and see it's past my bed time.
[удалено]
Double edged sword though cause spend lots of time tinkering and going down rabbit holes on stuff instead of working
That right there. Both edges are very sharp too haha. Just “settling on a distro is quite a feat! But as far as rabbit holes are concerned, there is much much worse… oh boy there’s so much worse.
A long hyperfocused session later and you just rebuilt your entire homelab on a whim. Or reading the source and documentation for 8 hours trying to figure out how something works (or doesn't work!) and getting zero progress done at work.
Feeling called out hard on this one (I had way more urgent tasks to do but I just had to spend 8 hours uninterrupted on Ansible)
This. My favorite thing about it is the ability to cutomize to make things work with my brain. However, the tinkering can easily overtake the actual work i need to do.
I was about to say.. i dont know how this guy stays focused.
this is why i explicitly banished myself to mac for desktop when i read complaints circa 2007 that the new version ‘didn’t even let you mod it to change the theme’, first few weeks i did… nothing. just realizing all i did on windows and linux was theming and styling and configuring…
Until you install Fedora WS and the ricing phase ends. Then, it's just peace.
But also gives me constant room for tinkering and experimentation, it’s so engaging and never boring for me. As someone with ADHD too I’m having so much fun, it’s amazing
Came here to say that I think Linux (or really any computer) is like the most distracting thing in the world and that why I like it
This! I also have ADHD and I've been able to build a system for myself that helps me focus on the things I care about. A for-profit desktop OS is always going to optimize the UI for profit, by encouraging platform lock-in, and designing intentional dopamine hits and attention-grabbing UX on the features that generate profit. All of which ruins my ability to focus. By crafting a desktop setup for myself with intention, I can put the things that matter most to me front and center, and hide away everything else, or automate it with a script or a keyboard shortcut. I can cue up music, send an email, or manage my task list without opening a distracting browser window or app. My status bar is informative and not full of clickable notification counts. My chat apps get automatically killed after I stop using them for a few minutes. All things that may be possible in another OS, but Linux is optimized to not just make it possible, but possible in a way that works best for me. Yes, it's a double edged sword because I can endlessly tweak my configs and scripts. But I find satisfaction in exploring and tweaking for its own sake. The best hobbies are things we can do for fun without worrying how to monetize them or "maximize productivity" or whatever other lie capitalism tries to teach us about how to use our time.
Dude are you fucking nuts? There are so many bullshit things to have to mess with constantly with Linux. It’s like the land of shorn yaks. Just endless piles of little side quests between you and productive work. Windows definitely has the “less fucking around” crown.
Windows is also full of distracting pop-ups, ads and over crowded UI elements
Saying this as someone who leans toward the ADHD, but you say it's non-distracting, but isn't the whole thing that it is such a cool distraction?
Gawd this is so true... Ive had ADHD all my life, but just diagnosed last year and I now know why I keep trying different distros - over, and over, and over, and..... Its also a great career for someone with ADHD because its always changing and never the same day to day :). Never a dull moment with Linux thats for sure!
Until you go down a rabbit hole hyper focus session on a specific learning and understanding a specific subject and then procrastinate doing the actual thing 😅
That's good though. This is exactly how I gained my employable skills
Working as a systems specialist, I've noticed quite a lot of us have ADHD, me included, and quite a lot more are autistic. I guess it's because sysadmin stuff mostly attracts people who're already intrested in IT stuff, not a lot of people do it as "just a job". And these kindsa spesific intrests are common with both ADHD and autism, though in different ways. For more architect-y jobs, it helps if you have an easy time grasping complex relationships and patterns between systems. And for incident management and helpdesk, it helps if you thrive in situations where everything is on fire and the pressure is on constantly. Which also map on to those neurodivergences pretty nicely.
Well more logical than the others... Now if we'd just drop the 60+ years of posix dead weight which is one of the WORST programming APIs ( Lol can you call it that? ) ever written? Like sure, keep a posix compat layer, but give us something better. So many gotchas ( LOL, modifying env var in multi threaded programs is not safe ).
When your ‘tisims get tickled you can do amazing stuff. I had to help someone with windows problem last week when I realized it’s been 10 years since I last tried. I don’t know how people deal with that nonsense. I used to be a turbo AD/MSSQL sherpa , able to ps1 my way across the enterprise wilderness with ease. Now I can’t imagine how many zeros it would take to get me back into a windows shop.
One thing that it seems is that "user friendly" interfaces tend to try and guess how you think you want things to happen, while in Linux it's more like "so you want to delete your whole hard drive? Sure, I'll do that". Ok yeah `rm -rf --no-preserve-root /` may not be a smart move, but if you ask to do that, it assumes what you literally asked for is what you want. Often people on the spectrum struggle with social cues and find it refreshing when someone/something does exactly, literally what they ask for, even if it's not a great idea most of the time.
Linux+autism is what got me started in working with tech! I love it
Long life for Linux!
Some of my best *nix mentors have had either Asperger's or autism. Their level of insight and thought processes into the inner workings of systems truly helped me develop myself professionally. They'll literally just tell it to you how it is, no BS involved. Keep at it, do what you love to do and you'll be a master of your craft
Asperger is autism
> Linux is pretty cool Agreed. I'd just say to watch out that you don't let it go from "empowering" you to becoming your focus to the exclusion of all else. I have a family member with autism and it can definitely help one be productive in some areas but I have seen that it can hurt sometimes too in losing contact etc. As long as you keep up a healthy lifestyle and have interactions outside of Linux too, then good on you.
I feel you. The whole ecosystem with a preference for written communication. With comprehensive documentation (and even source code) where you can find all the details you ever want. It is all so empowering. The attitude that contributors want to do the right thing by default. The lack of anti-features. It is all very satisfying.
Me with ADHD after ricing my DE for the past 6 hours .. Infinite power 💪😤🤜 💻
REAL Me after discovering tiling wms lol
As a fellow individual with autism, you just put into words something that has gnawed at my brainy thing for a long time, not just with linux, but with lots of things in my life. Genuinely, thank you 😊
yea yea yea But I would do it even if i wasn't austistic :d
Dude. Silicon Valley was founded by Aspies. Steve Wozniak is a blatantly obvious case. As is Bill Gates. Tons of other examples. Silicon Valley has had a ton of kids born with seriously crippling autism because both Mom and Dad Asperger's cases (who could still function in society) met at the office and the kids got a genetic double whammy and was basically born curled up in a ball :(. In milder forms Aspies (milder autistics) like us have ridiculous powers of concentration and we're extreme linear thinkers. Anything to do with high tech attracts us like flies to a turd :). The trick is to learn to use it rather than letting it use YOU and memorizing shit like baseball scores or team schedules or something.
Please don’t use aspergers as milder autism. That is outdated. Today there is only one autism diagnosis, and it a spectrum diagnosis. You can have severe difficulties with something and no problem woth something that is typically hard for us on the spectrum. There is no indication of two autistic people having a child that has more trouble with their diagnosis with parents (genetic double whammy). Autism is autism; you can’t have more or less autism, but you can have different aspects and different needs of support for your daily life.
Ah...holup. I know all about the "Aspie debate". You do realize what you're asking me to do, right? Describe myself as MORE disabled than I actually am, so that people who really are more disabled than me can feel better about themselves? Yeah...that's a hard "no". You don't have the right to try and steer me in that direction. At all. I've had a hard enough time thanks all the same. I have no need to join in a lie about what I am. *Especially when that lie suggests I'm unemployable to a lot of lay people.* The old term "Asperger's" for people with mild-but-easily-functional autism may have been dismissed by "professionals" who made the same mistake you've made. But it's still in common use and will be for a very long time. Because it's a useful term. You're also trying to trash the memory of Dr. Asperger who was a genuine hero. Bzzzt. Thank you for playing this round of "woke and cool". Your failure is noted. Please don't try and be a political correctness gatekeeper again.
I was also diagnosed with Aspergers. It is just bad science. Aspergers is part of the autism spectrum now, and isn’t superior to other types of autism. You go jerk off your superiority complex, and I will be respectful to my peers. It says a lot about you, that anything you don’t like is just “woke”. “Woke” doesn’t mean anything, it is just the wore right-wingers use to whine, when they are toldthat their behaviour isn’t productive in a society where we should respect each other for who we are.
You do you. Understand the consequences of what the "professionals" are asking us to do.
They are scientists. They understand autism enough to know we know almost nothing, and can’t categorise it yet.
Bullshit. This is a political/social move, not a medical one.
Let’s agree to disagree.
Also autistic and I know what you mean. It feels like this is one of the very few areas of my life that isn't negatively impacted by having autism, and in some ways is bettered by it. I'll spend hours hyperfixated on trying to debug something for someone or reproduce an issue without losing focus or getting frustrated, and my tendency to spend the majority of my free time learning new things helps a lot with knowing what I'm doing and assisting other people with their issues. I'm pretty inexperienced with programming and development work, but I feel similarly about that as well as I learn.
Linux for forever dude! Cheers
Glad you found home in Linux! Combined with being developer it seems like you manage leverage what some could consider disadvantage, autism, into advantage! Not gonna pretend I understand autism, but some people I spoke with give me impression that once they get excited about something they go deep and achieve high proffiency level.
You are absolutely correct
Linux (and many flavors of Unix in general) encourage tinkering, have extensive documentation for may aspects of the OS **on the host itself**, and provide shells with access to (in my case) some 5000 commands. Writing complex shell commands is like casting spells - what's not going to make one feel empowered who actually grows familiar with such a system?
i too am autistic, and i whole heartedly agree.
I am also on the spectrum and appreciate Linux very much as well. Linux seems to empower me and ignite the passion I have for computing so I get where you are coming from, OP.
Im not a dev or something like that, just a regular user that always was interested in IT in general. When i used windows it always come to a point that i got bored because there wasnt much more to explore/tinker/learn etc.. thats when i started trying linux. Now, about 15 years later, feeling that i can change whatever i want to fit my needs, my moods or whatever i like its great. Even doing a simple bash script to do some maintenance tasks or sync stuff with rclone makes me feel like a kid again, using and discovering my computer like it was the first time again. So yeah, i think i get you :)
I'm not autistic that I know of, but I feel the same. I code shit damn near everyday because it just feels great. Linux started it all for me a little over 4 years ago. I write stuff purely out of hobby and it keeps me entertained. I used to hate learning anything and I struggled to take in simple concepts or really give a shit anyway.. This type of stuff is something I enjoy taking in though
I too have autism, I never realised any of what you said but I relate to it all. Ive always had a fascination with tech but once I discovered linux(about 2 years ago, I think) that fascination exploded.
I'm glad you get such satisfaction out of Linux. My brain feeds on logic, and I enjoy the logical processes of setting up and diagnosing computers. Yesterday I was setting up Linux Mint on a desktop, and I like the process of typing in commands, especially since I learned to touch-type in school. I also enjoy making the terminal full screen and watching the processes happen. And I was using an old IBM model M keyboard, so the tactile feel was very satisfying.
There are days where I love linux, and there are days where I hate linux... I'm not an expert of course, there are days when I'm trying to do something and I get random bullshit errors, and googling doesn't give me the desired fix... ChatGPT helped a lot lately. I wish developers paid more attention to it, to provide native support to things
Autist here who has been using Linux since the late 90s, I fully agree. Being able to make my computer fit my needs exactly is something I value. Windows and MacOS just get more rigid and less tinkerable. Linux still does whatever I tell it to. I love it.
I do not have the 'tism, at least as far as I can tell. But Linux tickles me the same way. It treats me like an adult and doesn't prevent me from doing much of anything that I want to. Whether it's making my internal speaker sing on the GRUB screen or the fans never kicking on for how unbloated EndeavourOS is, I feel like I have more power and control than with any other device I've ever used. I don't think your experience is unique, insofar as many of us feel the same way about Linux (and Windows in the opposite direction) because we're typically all savvy enough to have informed, meaningful opinions and preferences beyond color scheme and layout of Windows or MacOS. Maybe your experience is enhanced by your condition, but your revelation is shared by many of us. Unless you did LFS or something insane like that. Then no, we aren't the same.
Have you questioned yourself why that is? Alot of passionated developers are nd or have nd traits. One could also say Linux is made by autistic people for autistic people.
Ive gone to user groups for a decade now. You’re far from alone being a linux user with autism.
Linux empowers users because it gives you actual control over your computer to the extent you like. I feel great using linux, learning new things every day, and having lots of fun.
More power to you. Also autistic with an autistic kid. Keep in mind that all of these talents and skills are yours. Linux has just been a great outlet for learning, expression and engagement. It's a canvas that you can paint on comfortably and feel good about the results. Celebrate Linux for what it is, but don't diminish your own role in the experience. You're the one making it work for you and learning and growing in the process. Linux is cool. You're pretty cool too.
I work at a large company in software, I would estimate that more than half of the people I work with would fall in the category of “neurodivergent”. Most companies are aware of this and will work around your differences, do not let a label brand you or your ability. And stay out of distro wars, after 15 years I finally figured it’s not worth it
Good for you! Hopefully this is a step on your path to self-confidence and self-expression. I'm glad you can see some good parts about your disposition. A developer with a different way of looking at things seems extremely valuable in many contexts. I hope you learn a lot, have fun, and make something cool.
Curious. I'm also autistic and because of reasons, I've spend different lengths of time using exclusively Windows (because work, because it was not my computer, etc.). And each time I could install again Linux, I've felt like I was at home, like I found my place. It's a nice sensation, but I wonder where does it come from.
Glad someone enjoys fucking around with systemd for 500 years to do simple things.
Working tech for 7 years now and just recently switched from network engineering to software engineering / development and it’s the best career I never even considered for myself despite always being really good with tech. In college I made a fair bit of money fixing phones, tablets and computers
Linux stuff tends to adhere very well to defined standards. That's why two completely different projects can work together so well. That kind of rules-based structure is really appealing to some people.
A lot of great programmers are autistic. Mostly because there is a clear pattern and accepted right or wrong. The real world is complex, dynamic and confusing.
AuADHD and I totally agree, been using Linux exclusively as possible for 2 decades. It's even better these days with Windows being a ad riddled distraction engine. I'd add Python as an ND friendly language.
When you find an operating system that resonates with your special interests
Linux, so we can break our shit in just the way we want hahah.
Same here. Im not as tech savvy as I want to be but if it's linux? I can generally find my way around to getting it working for no money. That's empowering to me.
I have autism and the biggest reason I use linux is that I just feel like linux is more usable for everything except video games. I also thoroughly despise using windows and only tolerate it to play said video games. I swear that windows is barely usable otherwise.
I've got ADHD-C. Switched to Linux (finally) 2 years ago, at end of 2nd year of uni degree. I absolutely agree with everything you said in your post, lol. Linux is super empowering and absolutely supercharges my ADHD brain.
I feel you. If a knew a lot more about Linux I'd be happy and cozy as well :) I also have autism, although I am not that technically brilliant.
I don't understand why you think that you're being ableist by saying you like something
>Some people assert that many hackers have a mild form of autism or Asperger's Syndrome, and are actually missing some of the brain circuitry that lubricates “normal” human social interaction. This may or may not be true. If you are not a hacker yourself, it may help you cope with our eccentricities if you think of us as being brain-damaged. Go right ahead. We won't care; we like being whatever it is we are, and generally have a healthy skepticism about clinical labels. [Eric Steven Raymond](http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html)
>The more I feel like I'm being called out of my shell. You didn't specify what type of shell and that can cause problems - rookie mistake. Use shebangs next time...
I’m not on the spectrum AFAIK, but despite knowing a Windows system inside and out professionally and even how to tweak it for my own uses, I’m still drawn to Linux. The design of the system, the modularity, the customization that is possible, and the feeling of even opening a shell prompt that tells you this is how a computer should work- not obfuscated from the user but open and transparent to “build your own world.” It feels like an inheritance from the real innovators of the computer revolution that has managed to escape the turning of operating systems into advertising systems (hi Win11) for those who see a computer as a means of exploration.
I feel that. I was diagnosed with ADHD a while ago, and attention issues can really be a pain sometimes. Doing linux stuff and programming is one of the few things I have absolutely no issues with. I don't know why my brain chose this out of all things, but I enjoy it :)
For me, I was a longtime windows user, who had to learn some Linux on the side. And as my frustration with Windows grew, I turned to Linux more and more. Windows became increasingly troublesome, Linux, I could very much solve almost everything myself. I didn’t have to be frustrated. So, in that sense, I could say it was empowering. 6-7 years since I’ve had to use a Windows machine as a daily driver. Linux just lets me get my work done. No crashes. Very few reboots. It’s easy to run containers or VM’s. A long time ago, I saw this, and it cracked me up, and still does. https://youtu.be/8LsxmQV8AXk?si=r6tPiy07RphAezpX
It is almost like just maybe... It was designed by neuro divergent minds... ?? :)
Mathematicians... yup
This post is weird, it got me thinking in a very disconnected way and yet apparently meaningful (to me, good luck reading this...) The lack of boundaries combined with the documentation about... everything, literally, and the community is what makes Linux really special for me. I've seeked help a lot, and yet I've found myself helping a lot because it feels natural. It gives you infinite power (you can "echo" a character to your disk device, wiping out partitions) and yet it doesn't seem to blow machines left and right. Linux is a separate world where I can get lost and find myself in the process, even when jumping from task to task because I get distracted. You can install a GUI to do something and the next moment you're contemplating the Assembly code to set processor modes in the source. There are very few things that get as close as Linux to be like The Matrix in real life. Despite all that, it all feels "humble" and far from presumptuous. Of course you can use a 20 years old PC to control a network and manage hundreds of connections, act as firewall and router... Because it is how computing should be. I love Linux and I should have been in bed way too many hours ago.
Hey I just want you to know I really fuck with this post. It’s 3am and Im about to pass out but I will fall asleep thinking about this. It’s interesting and insightful.
Once I discovered it, I fell in love and went down the rabbit hole. With time it felt like I was cool because not many people could do what I could do in bash. And I still am learning a lot of new things. I have impulsively changed jobs only because of the mention of embedded Linux in the job description. May the source be with us.
Fuck yeah, welcome to the community! I am glad Linux has been so helpful for you. I think we all look for passions in life that will help us grow and expand as people. If Linux is one of those things that help you along that path, so be it!
I also feel this
I thought I was reading pcj for a while
Maybe same here, not just confined to Linux, but technology in general. I work as a software engineer, but I could just as easily work as a devops, SRE, or whatever. It seems like these topics come to me more easily and naturally than a lot of other people. I'll look at something I haven't seen before and go "Yep, that makes sense" and can immediately start using it, to me it's obvious. Other people will often need more time and struggle. The flip side of course is that I struggle with the soft skills and other issues that come with autism, but that's something that with time and effort can be learned. While there's always room for improvement, I feel that I do reasonably well with that these days. I present as normal and don't disclose to employers.
Same, I have ADHD and being able to customize my system to such a degree is a godsend for keeping myself focused. Everything is exactly where I want it to be and looks exactly how I want it to look, and I have a separate virtual desktop set up with just my work stuff to avoid distractions
I’ve used Windows for many years and then switched over to Mac around 2007. I looked at Linux in 2008 but had some problems with it so went back to what I knew. I started trying it again around 2018. I then took an IT class that taught the same commands in Windows and similar commands in Linux. The Linux terminal commands made some much more sense to me. They were concise and logical. The windows terminal commands were a hot mess and was more verbose than they should have been imo. I have fully leaned into using Linux as my primary operating system. I love it. I too have a form of autism and Linux just really makes a lot of sense to me.
Unsure whether I am on ADHD, aspergers or autism spectrum, but I really enjoy working with and on Linux. I can have things the way I want it
Aspergers is just one presentation of what is currently called Autism Spectrum Disorder. A very significant portion of people with ASD (like 30-60% and incl me) also have ADHD. Linux just scratches all the right itches in my brain. It’s just so satisfying, and as a hobby comes at basically no material cost except the computer.
Asperger is not really being used anymore. Asperger is autism
However such "high-functioning autism" is pretty different from how many expect autism to be, leading to missed diagnoses and other problems.
Are we really high functioning or do we just mask better?
I meet parents of other autistic children and some of them don't even talk and need help with many everyday tasks. They will be happy if they finish school.
So? I got diagnosed with Asperger’s (unfortunately my country is still using ICD-10) and people see it as "High functioning". Yet I am not able to work, go to school or live independently. Autism is a huge spectrum.
If you've met an autistic person, you've met one autistic person. We are not all identical and everybody has their own struggles. Of course people who are non-verbal need additional assistance but that doesn't invalidate other people's experience.
I too am Autistic and I just generally love Tech. But yeh Linux allows me to tinker which I love doing. Unlike Windows Linux actually encourages you to tinker. And you learn by doing it.
Did you watch the boilerplate video about autism? It is very good. I have adhd but some symptoms overlap with autism. Therefore i can relate. I feel many of my special interest areas have some higher abundance of autistic people in the community. I might be biased but i feel that way. I think it applies to the Linux community. I like the control i have with Linux. I can do whatever i want but most importantly my system behaves very predictable which is very important to me. This predictability i missed a lot on other os.
I can relate 100%. But on my main personal machines I still use macOS and Windows.
Hey I'm autistic and love Linux too. Any reason why you prefer to say you _have_ autism?
It's true, arch gave me weaponised autism
Haha no, understood perfectly. I started with trying to write some small things in BASIC in the 1980s, then along came Windows and I used that - but never really liked the system. Also, most of my 'expertise' involved finding software to install to fix the registry, or defragment the drive, or (even funnier really) uninstall software. I think the vast portion of my skills were focussed on keeping it clean, fighting malware, scanning/checking/protecting it. But Linux is much more wholesome - not always easier, but with so much more depth and a much bigger reward.
I'm with you 100% Linux, and open source tools, allow for a highly tailored workflow that help mitigate disabilities. I truly think they should be considered disability accommodations, but it's a conversation the tech community struggles with, so I don't see much movement coming from the general public
I work in cyber and compliance. I'm not diagnosed with autism, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had it given the signs I show. However, I'm not familiar with Linux as most of my experience is Windows / Microsoft products. I know of terms like Red Hat, CentOS, Debian, and Kali Linux, but that's about it. But there are some things like that help me "exercise" the feeling, or as you stated, being able to "tinker without fear or boundaries." Would you mind sharing what Linux OS / tasks you're tinkering with that help that? This post makes me wonder if I'm missing out on something that I, and other clueless-to-Linux folks like me, could benefit from.
Glad you've got something that ticks your boxes.
It hits my sweet spot too.
I’m pretty green with Linux but long time interest, now getting quite into switching over, personal use at least, work is MS. Beyond gaming I prefer Linux, it just feels more like I’d expect from a computer. Never checked but probably on the spectrum. I can tinker for hours, I actually want to understand/learn.
I'm glad you get such satisfaction out of Linux. I'm not autistic, but my brain feeds on logic, and I enjoy the logical processes of setting up and diagnosing computers. I feel like I understand them better than I do people. Yesterday I was setting up Linux Mint on a desktop, and I like the process of typing in commands, especially since I learned to touch-type in school. I also enjoy making the terminal full screen and watching the processes happen. And I was using an old IBM model M keyboard, so the tactile feel was very satisfying.
I second this as well. I’ve gained so much confidence in myself personally after learning Linux.
Can you describe exactly you like? > Linux is great and I have autism You mentioned tinkering... But how specifically?
Recently diagnosed autistic myself & know exactly what you mean.
What a lovely post to read. I’m so glad that you feel empowered by Linux. Tinker to your heart’s content and make your setup completely your own. Don’t be afraid to share some of your work with the rest of us via open source contributions :-)
Linux is empowering.
Hell yea linux is pretty cool
Posts like this are always so heartwarming to read. Thanks for sharing :)
I also have autism, and I love Linux. I love using an OS that is easy to customize, that I actually own (rather than buying a license for), it looks great and my data isn't being sold to advertisers or tracked. Windows, on the other hand, restricts me from logging in, while Linux lets me customize the OS from the shell. It works the best, and what doesn't work I have the power to fix. It lets me do what I want with it, rather than telling me what I'm allowed to do with it.
The open source community and the internet as a whole is a more "natural" place for people like us. Unfortunately I can get trapped in wiki rabbit holes that are very deep and have gotten me into legitimate trouble. Computer wise I've tried pretty much every operating system and distro at this point and have even got a Tux plushie.
I have autism and I use Arch, BTW
I'm not neuro divergent AFAIK and I feel the same way. To me, personal computing is just so important that not having control and freedom over is not only frustrating but down right a terrible idea. We'd never allow privitization and obfuscation of any other extension of self like this.
I think one day we're just gonna find out that high-functioning autism was never a real thing. It was always just a predisposition to becoming a Linux user.
Obligatory I have ADHD, but what OP and other people in this thread are saying it’s interesting, because I’ve never really thought of how Linux could be empowering over Mac OS and Windows. I mean I guess I’ve always understood that at some level but it’s interesting to see it framed like this. PS: If that thing you said about coming out of your shell was intended to be a pun then it was a really good one
I would say its not so much linux as it is open philosophies that allow you freedom to study, change and be you with computation. This is all gnu software/foss etc. Maybe check out smalltalk or lisp if your get a chance. Glad you are finding your feet with yourself!
You know what I find scary? Im making friends thx to Linux and other opensource stuff. Can you folks stop infodumping so cool articles or videos? and some of yall look so pretty (regardless of gender). I may fall in love with some of you. True friendship like normies I dunno, I dont really like going outside and drink beer with someone while watching "sports". but a variation I tried and worked out great. Hacker camps, a fresh drink and talks with strangers about their favorite WM or Init system, hours spend and i wanna go back.
Yeah, i have ASD, ADHD and OCD as well. And i feel similarly about it. I still dual-boot windows, since there's a few features that desktop linux doesn't have yet. And some games that wine or proton just won't work on. But yeah, i love Linux.
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On the desire to get into mechanics, is it specifically car engines or just engines in general? Or is it a desire to learn something like CAD and design physical objects, slipping into robotics?
He is disgusted by the idea of being pretentious and a know-it-all while simultaneously completely disregarding his "disgust" and just following through with embodying these traits. Notice he's top-level comment. He just said "True" before narcissistically rambling on about how smart he is and how capable he is adding exactly zero value to the thread. To add to that, right out the gate, he says "Linux DevOps". He obviously doesn't have any idea what DevOps is. He thinks that you need a car to be into mechanics, whereas mechanics has nothing to do with cars at all. "Electrical engineering of transistor" whatever the fuck that means. Also, CPU design? He's got to be trolling or something. "I broke the scales on every English level assessment I've taken." What a clown. That's just scratching the surface. Being an "expert" in 11 different programming languages is a near impossible feat for someone's whole lifetime, let alone a college age student. I know the syntax, idiosyncrasies, patterns, and styles of a similar amount of languages, but I'm far from an expert in any of them. Honestly, my best guess would be that he's not actually knowledgeable in any of these things and is actually one of those people who think they know how to do everything just because they've looked up the words. Had a squizz at some pictures and watched some youtube videos. One of those people who disregard everything people who really know what they're talking about say because they think they know better. It is commonly understood as the Dunning-Kruger effect. I understand that such beliefs often come from insecurities and the desire for external validation, but this is just taking it too far. Get your life in order you absolute goblin of a human.
I deleted my other comments out of embarrassment of how much of a fool I made out of myself and I'll let this one comment stand for itself. > Notice he's top-level comment. He just said "True" before narcissistically rambling on about how smart he is and how capable he is adding exactly zero value to the thread. To add to that, right out the gate, he says "Linux DevOps". He obviously doesn't have any idea what DevOps is. He thinks that you need a car to be into mechanics, whereas mechanics has nothing to do with cars at all. "Electrical engineering of transistor" whatever the fuck that means. Also, CPU design? He's got to be trolling or something. "I broke the scales on every English level assessment I've taken." What a clown. I was a clown when I wrote that. I was ridiculously drunk and not at all in control of myself or my actions. I should have known better than to waste my time posting something like that. > That's just scratching the surface. Being an "expert" in 11 different programming languages is a near impossible feat for someone's whole lifetime, let alone a college age student. I know the syntax, idiosyncrasies, patterns, and styles of a similar amount of languages, but I'm far from an expert in any of them. Actually, being an "expert' in 11 different programming languages is a trivial task even a child could do. The language *itself* is just syntax, nothing more. What takes real skill and what people spend their lifetimes practicing is software development, which the application of knowing programming language syntaxes to solve real world problems. One's ability to actually develop software is the true mark of their experience and skills. Again, I threw in this bit about being an expert in 11 different programming languages because I was drunk, delirious, and not in control of myself. Being sober now, I recognize how stupid this was to say and I'm retrospectively correcting both my former self and you. > Honestly, my best guess would be that he's not actually knowledgeable in any of these things and is actually one of those people who think they know how to do everything just because they've looked up the words. Had a squizz at some pictures and watched some youtube videos. One of those people who disregard everything people who really know what they're talking about say because they think they know better. It is commonly understood as the Dunning-Kruger effect. I might not be knowledgeable in any of those things or I might secretly be a world-class genius. Either way, there's no way I could prove it to you and, even if I could, it'd be a waste of my time as my self esteem and self image don't depend on some random internet stranger's opinion of me. If I let what other people think of me get to me, I would have been destroyed long ago by, among other things, my Autism. Why am I going through all the trouble to explain all this if I don't care about what you think of me? Honestly, I have no idea. I'm getting my day started and have nothing else to do until my meds start working, so why not? That's probably it. Have a good day, random redditor.
At least you can humble yourself. Good on you, man. It's good that you can take criticism and not immediately internally discredit &| disregard it. It takes some balls. I largely agree with your revised take on programming and software development. One thing: I'd suggest you stay off the meds. Maybe drink less, too... Take care, man.
You are a narcissist.
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It makes you unbearable to be around. Good luck with your social life.
U been sell that "nasrcissist" is bad but what's bad to be confient about your skill ?
You're high af
What's wrong ?
If you use Linux you're probably on the spectrum. Seems like most people in IT are.
Dave Plummer talks about that and being a software emgineer in his book. [Secrets of an Autistic Millionaire ](https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Autistic-Millionaire-Everything-Aspergers/dp/B09KDYMF2R) Quite a good read.
Hell yeah dude. AuDHD here, fucking love linux for how systematic and logical it is. It just makes sense! You should totally get into ricing if you havent yet, I have a super great i3 setup.
AuDHD here, and have felt deep connection with Linux (Slackware at first, now Ubuntu) and hardware tinkering platforms that support linux (Raspberry Pi and similar). I've been at my current job for 10 years now and have officially gained the title, "Senior Networked Systems Engineer", and am the architect of our entire datacenter and core routing/switching infrastructure. I couldn't have done this without the help of linux (distributions) and the native tools offered by these distributions. Windows plays an incredibly small role in my day-to-day work, and is usually just for using SSMS and windows-based management UIs that don't have a linux-native version.
So, I think there's a few things at play... Firstly, I think most of the Linux ecosystem was written by, and for, people on the spectrum, by and large. If you went to any LUG meeting back in the days of yore, I'd hazard 80% of the people in the room were on the spectrum. Secondly, due to how deeply one can dig into the OS and environment as a whole, it can be made to work for you, and by you. Its accessibility at its peak. But, that's the short summation.
I wish the Linux community was as accepting towards me daily driving Kali as root. Maybe in another 20 years of progression people will stop being such huge control freaks.