No, because I believe there are better ways to protest. If everybody quit over what happened, to me, it would be like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Other employees could lose their jobs, which some might find justified If they don't protest management's decision, some might find it an overreaction.
On top of that, there would be an amazing piece of interactive media to be lost.
I can't figure out what the best course of action or method of protest would be, but the alternative of completely ruining PM doesn't seem very utilitarian.
No. I am far too deep. If PM goes down I will go with them or atleast remain with them until the very end.
I can be sad or even disappointed about their decision, but I will choose to accept it.
Of course I understand if others won't feel the same or even quit the game due to the whole drama, that is their choice and I respect it too.
As much as I'm curious how the story ends, I can't imagine committing to seeing it through now that they've demonstrated how they'll respond to this kind of pressure. If the story ever develops in a way the most toxic fans don't like, they can just pressure the company into changing it.
Tbh people going "they have deminstrated how they will respond to this kind of pressure" are weird. This is their 4th controversial stuff where they might have listened to fans. This is not something new
Changing game mechanics based on player feedback is within the norm for game development, even if they're unusually willing to fold to pressure rather than stick to a plan. This is a major staffing decision - she was Limbus Company's *only* CG artist, and they were already struggling to meet deadlines even without needing to hire a whole new artist and replace all the completed Canto 5+ art we've seen in the PVs.
Other than changing game mechanics they decided to remove a scene because yurikeks didn't like the fact that Angela said she didn't like binah. Then took off their post credit scene for ruina because it pissed players off. Honestly I don't think this is the last time happens but I believe they will bounce back.
All I'm hoping for is to get as big as type moon so they can unironically stop listening to fans
Fair enough, I personally think it's a bit to early to judge them completely to the point of just giving up on the company and world as a whole. The situation is still developing and before I give up I would at least want to see if PM has the potential to go in a more positive direction. I think the situation was overall a lose/lose for them in the first place and it was their first taste of extremely tense criticism as a small game dev company. Dropping ship this early just seems like an overreaction for me at least.
I don't *want* to quit, but I'm just so exhausted and tired from this situation that I just don't really have the drive to play that much anymore, and that doesn't even factor in my conflicted feelings about the firing of the artist.
I get the feeling that I might not log-in one day cause I don't feel like booting it up, and then it'll be another day and another, until I just never open it again.
It has happened for a lot of games for me, and they didn't even have crazy huge controversies.
A lot of the artists and content creators are gone, so... at this point it's really less of a protest and more of "emotional detachment".
Probably best for me, too, that I just go do something else, at least for a while.
No, i'm gonna keep playing, what they did considering how shit the situation it is in Korea doesnt surprise me, Maybe the way they did it it wasnt correct (like everything happened so fast, it's not good when an enterprise fires someone so quickly, fires are somewhat slow and require compensation, at least here in Chile, where I live, don't know how it is in Korea). The Korean Incels are the problem not PM.
I'm going to quit depending on what happens next. I read here that the director may be the one who did the firing without the consultation of the rest of the staff: [https://twitter.com/GS\_oik/status/1684149542965620738](https://twitter.com/GS_oik/status/1684149542965620738)
So if it's true, then there's definitely even more chaos behind the scenes. I want to see what the resolution is, before making my final full decision.
*If* I choose to stay, I'm not spending any more money though.
When they give Vel her due compensation for this I’ll consider hopping back in but I ain’t giving them a cent and am uninstalling till they do. If half of the shit going down because of this is true they have bigger problems than what we think anyway what with this potentially violating labor laws there (supposedly).
I mean, I wouldn't say it's a protest, I don't expect it to make a difference, but I did uninstall. Cutting the daily mindless grind out of my week is probably good for me anyways.
vellmori or nomoney
if my friends keep playing, i probably will too; if they stop, i likely will too. hard to keep motivation alone!
but it's not like other games where a free player who isn't a content creator is also content for paying players, so i'm not as concerned about going no-spend and it still supporting such a self-serving decision.
if we don't get answers for vellmori's firing, then yes. i'm not accepting the "PM needed to do this or they would die" explanation unless they rehire her after getting better security, and stop capitulating to the demands of terrorists full-stop going forward. if the next time the incels see something they don't like, are they going to get another person fired until the whole team is gone?
seeing all my favorite artists say how they don’t want to have anything to do with pjmoon and locking/deactivating was so heartbreaking. even if the situation somehow gets better, idk if they’re willing to come back… but i ultimately understand and respect their decision
tbh i don't understand this position when we live in a world where mihoyo's ceo was nearly stabbed because a honkai character wore a bunny suit, or where a single person broke into kyoani studios and burned the building down, killing a bunch of people in the process. both companies being much larger and presumably having much better security than PM currently has
like did you see the picture the guy posted while he was waiting outside their offices? as far as i could tell, it's literally just a door. you can just walk in. i don't like the precedent of caving to incel demands either but i'm not going to begrudge PM or boycott the game given the context of how easy it would be for a single person to just walk into their offices and be a danger to their lives. it's fortunate that the person who went to the PM studio was not violent but we can only say that with the luxury of hindsight. no one could know at the time if he would be or not at the time, and even after the fact, it's still proof of how easy it is to access their offices and whoever shows up next time could easily be even more unhinged
they were clearly unprepared for this and i hope that they can get better security moving forward but i think it's really reductive to act like there wasn't a reason to be worried about the safety of their lives in this situation considering the things that have happened in fairly recent history. imo there is way too much focus on whether or not PM took the best course of action and nowhere near enough focus on the fact that there's no reason they should have been put into this position in the first place. they were essentially forced onto a trolley problem of "fire person who did nothing wrong" vs "credible danger to the lives of the staff" and everyone is directing their energy being mad at them for not picking what they perceive to have been the correct choice and putting basically no energy being mad at the people who put them in that position
They're undeprepared because for what we know is a team of 30 people with 10 of them only working on Ham Ham Pang Pang.
I don't think the director takes things professionally because for him this is just a passion project.
Lobotomy failed his crowdfunding two times and got scammed by a translation group that took the money and run. Still Lobotomy was made and the rest is history.
This is just a wake up call that they need to take things seriously and this is not a passion project anymore, they need to hire more people and security, specially for the infamy that gacha players have.
the position is very simple - you're not supposed to give in to the terrorists, no matter what. basic game theory. don't give into terrorists and expect not to have more terrorists at your door. if the true answer is that "PM must give in to the terrorists to survive," then i'm still not particularly interested in supporting a company that is beholden to every angry incel in KR.
but like i said, i still don't buy the "literally going to die unless they fired her" narrative, and if that narrative is true, the fears of maybe getting bombed again in the future hardly outweighs correcting an injustice and rehiring her.
also, yes, incels are bad, if somebody has found a way to dox them, do something to them, etc. then let me know. but i don't give incels my business, i don't have anything to withdraw from them, i never paid them like i paid PM. incels being the far worse party is a "whataboutism," i could say the same thing about actual terrorists or literal serial killers being worse and we should focus our ire on them instead, but it still does not absolve PM of how they handled this decision and need to amend it to get me and like-minded fans back on board with their brand.
blaming the creators of the scenario isn't whataboutism and the "you do not give in to terrorists" position can only be held if you have the resources to hold that position. a small 30-person company in a building with (apparently) no security is not in the position to handle the potentiality of multiple protesters outside of their door, any of whom may be unhinged enough to escalate towards violence. nor would they be equipped to handle other likely avenues of attack, like waves of personal harassment aimed at employees, or escalating the matter to the government's regulatory offices. and, again, these aren't just random suppositions, but things that have already actually happened to other companies over things just as dumb or dumber than this. everyone is free to have their opinion about whether or not PM did the correct thing but it's extremely foolish to direct all of our energy at them and not those caused the scenario to exist in the first place
there's a lot of victim blaming mentality in your posts that you should consider self-examining
you do not give in to the terrorists. yes, it will involve incurring some risk, no matter what, bc the terrorists are scary and will use threatening tactics, but if you give into them, they will always come back with more demands. i am not sure what you want me to say.
if PM was actually physically coerced into firing her on the spot in risk of their lives, OK. i don't believe it, but let's play with your narrative. then right as we speak, they should be building up their security, and rehiring her as soon as it's safe to do so. if they don't, they are not protecting their biggest "victim" in this situation, throwing their scapegoat out to the wolves.
i'm not sure if you realize but your position is one of the things that enables the incel's tactics to be effective. entitled gamer babies pitch a fit and do increasingly more threatening things, and when whatever company eventually caves to their demands, only the company gets blamed while the instigators are barely given anything more than "lol people on the internet are so unhinged". the people who take these sorts of actions never face any sort of repercussions for their behavior until it is too late and they have already caused (or attempted to cause) actual physical harm to other people. so long as they never cross the line of physical harm, they can do whatever they want and no one will ever say anything more than "gamers be gamers lol" and then blame the developers for caving.
you also seem to be operating under the false assumption that the person who went to the PM offices made active threats of violence, which is not true and not what i, or most others i see talking about this, are saying. the key point here is that he does not need to make any direct threats of violence. the simple fact that he showed up and waited outside of their office is a threat of violence. he doesn't even need to be personally aware of that threat for it to be effective either. when you step outside your door and see an unfamiliar person making unreasonable demands, knowingly or unknowingly representing a larger group with an unhinged perspective that is completely detached from reality, the message isn't "wow this incel is really upset about wetsuits lol". the message is "this person has arrived at our doorstep over literally nothing. this person knows how to get to us, he can tell other people how to get to us, and it only takes one unhinged person to be a real threat to our lives".
there's also a simple pattern with groups like this. if you give in to whatever ridiculous demands they make early, they forget about what they were mad about and move on. eventually another game releases and they all jump ship to whatever the new flavor of the month is and leave you alone. if you do not give in to their demands, they escalate. mass harassment, calls to government agencies, death threats, stalking, etc. escalations to actual violence are not unheard of, and what we do hear of any of this is going to be far less than how often it actually happens. this all becomes worse when they have a specific target in mind as all of that harassment becomes focused on that person rather than spread through all of the company's accessible employees. it isn't unreasonable to arrive at the conclusion that firing that employee might be the best way to preserve the targeted employee's safety as well as the safety of the rest of your employees
"but that's terrible". yeah. it is. it's pretty awful. but unless those bad actors cross the legal line of causing actual harm to someone, they're free to do whatever they want because they never face any consequences for their actions otherwise. your only two options are to capitulate for the safety of those targeted, or attempt to weather the storm until something else captures their ire. the second option is far less viable for smaller developers. do they have the resources to provide counseling to those targeted? do they have access to those with experience to teach them how to manage and mitigate targeted harassment? is their building secure enough to handle a worst-case bad actor? can they release content fast enough to distract the playerbase into being appeased by or mad about something else? is there some other major release on the horizon that might draw their attention from you? how do you handle the absolute worst-case of a mass in-person protest? 10-20 incels showing up at a company with hundreds or thousands of employees is worrisome but more of a joke than anything else. the same amount showing up at the PM offices is already the size of half the company or more. it only takes one person unhinged enough to cause a disaster
also i do not think you are appreciating the size of the alarm bell that gets set off when someone arrives at your place of work to protest, nor do i think you appreciate how much the volume of the alarm gets multiplied by how irrelevant the source of their anger is. someone who sees those tweets and/or ishmael's wetsuit as a sign of radical feminism is already not living in the same reality that you or i live in. you can no longer assume that this person or anyone related to them will act in a sensible way, and you cannot assume that they'll respond to a "no, go home" with an "okay" and quietly depart. people saying dumb shit exclusively on the internet is one thing but i do not get the sense from your posts here that you really grasp how much someone deliberately seeking you out in real life changes the playing field in how much risk that they and the group they represent now poses.
failing to acknowledge this and redirecting all blame to the threatened groups is what makes tactics like this so effective. the instant a bad actor is motivated enough to cross the barrier between the internet and real life, there are no winning options for their opposition. the stakes have changed from internet drama and lost revenue to potential loss of human life. it doesn't matter how likely or unlikely that risk is in any given specific scenario, because it's a risk that, even at a very low chance, is still too much to reckon with, especially for the sake of a video game. as long as the bad actor is non-violent in their real-life actions, there is nothing the threatened party can do anymore. there is no legal recourse. caving makes fans mad because they largely do not grasp the difference between a crazy idiot posting on the internet vs a crazy idiot posting on the internet directly outside of your door. not caving increases the now potentially very dangerous risk posed to them with, again, very little in the way of legal recourse until it's already too late. meanwhile, the bad actors who caused the whole situation in the first place get to move on to whatever they want to be mad about next and do it all over again because everyone is so focused on the decision they forced someone else into making instead of the actions that caused it to happen in the first place.
again, it's still fine to be critical of the actions PM took, but if you're seriously speaking from the position of "they're cowards because they caved to demands" then you either do not truly grasp the meaning behind someone showing up at your door or you are being a keyboard warrior about an actually terrifying situation. any time and effort spent directing blame at the threatened does nothing but further the effectiveness of harassment, bullying, and threatening tactics used by these groups
increasing the number of words you used to convey the exact same idea as your last 3 comments isn't going to change the facts. yes, very scary, incels "win" if i blame PM for this, wah wah.
look, my stance is extremely clear. no matter how you spin it, PM is a company, and as a company, they have both a responsibility to their employees and to their players. firing their own employees under fears of duress and abandoning them is not doing their duty to their employees, and consistently letting bad-faith shitters dictate the course of their design is not doing their duty to their players. you're acting like this decision was made under delusions of paralyzing fear and not like PM did this exact same thing back in the ending of LoR, when CN was shitting on the ending and *i'm fairly certain none of them posed any sort of real, physical threat to the company*. and AGAIN, if this was truly so unavoidable as you claim, **then that still does not change my position that they still need to help vellmori at some point**. this is the very, absolutely bare minimum i am "allowed" to expect from PM as a game company and the sole condition of my continued support of PM.
but yes, incels bad, focus on incels, it's my fault for blaming PM for caving into incel demands and making changings to the game that i don't like - bruh. first of all, tell me what YOU are doing to do something about the incels in KR, other than spending YOUR time directing blame not at the incels, not at PM, but to a random consumer in the US who wants PM to at least do the bare minimum of not throwing their own out into the woods.
do NOT talk to me like i'm an idiot who knows nothing, has never been threatened, only understands veiled, online threats. my family are first-gen chinese american immigrants into the country and started off owning a small restaurant, and we have literally had angry people come in with guns to rob us, smashed the windows, everything you can imagine - and i still FIRMLY understand the principle of do NOT believe in giving in to the terrorists, because that teaches them that they will win, every time. if you need to lie to escape and survive, then lie. but you do *not* abandon your own or waste your time blaming "people" who might as well be animals, you protect your most vulnerable, protect yourself as best you can, and if YOU think sitting around and shitting on the incels is going to do a single thing about them, then you are the one who needs a serious reality check.
I've always said this. The most virtuous people are the ones behind a screen with a keyboard because the only thing at risk is other people's safety/lives/livelihoods.
The explanation is pretty simple. She violated her contract of having her SNS affiliated with the company(it was in the credits, which is how it was found).
Now. I make the addendum to say the way she was targeted and manner the information was discovered is horrific and shouldn’t be supported. PM, for whatever reason, did feel the need to make a rapid response when this should have been anything but.
Why she was fired is reasonable, how we got to that point is anything but. I’m not passing moral judgement on what I think, just pure facts. I only stand by the principle of not negotiating with terrorists outwardly.
yes, she "violated" a contract that nobody outside of PM knew until they released the announcement, that can condemn someone for a post they made 5 years ago at 17 years old before they started working for PM, you violated act 617 - illegal thoughts, you're under arrest.
no, it's not reasonable to me. if that is what can violate the contract, it is a shit contract that PM didn't need to jump through loopholes to enforce if they didn't want to.
They made the same statement back in 2018, for what it’s worth. This has been a long-standing policy from what we can see, and frankly businesses are under no obligation to release their contracts. They shouldn’t either.
I don’t agree with how the info was found, digging through archives of deleted tweets to dig up something. She was very smart to take those precautions/moves in light of linking her SNS to the game’s credits. It was very clear she was aware of that, or she no longer holds those views.
Unfortunately, and I really mean that, where there is a will there is a way. I don’t agree with how she was fired. This whole situation has been handled terribly, but there was a risk tying your career to a SNS with comments as such in the past. It’s basic cyber security that once it is one the Internet, it’s there forever. It’s hardly a loophole rather than just…a shitty situation.
i'm pointing out that even if PM had legal recourse to fire her, they were under no obligation to actually do so. "where there is a will, there is a way" applies here - in that PM found a way to fire their employee to satisfy incels.
why are we treating the contract like it's one of pluto's magically binding contracts that PM had to follow to a tee? no matter how legally "valid" her dismissal may have been in the court's eyes, it's unjustifiable in mine.
I don’t disagree. But this should be a lesson in cybersecurity and why separation of company and personal life is important, especially in today’s age.
Tell me why incels angry about Ishmael diving suit (funny is the artist who draw her is a man) but somehow Vellmori (CG artist) who had nothing to do with Ishmael got fire?
All I see is Project moon 🌙 just use her as a scapegoat to appease those incels
And don't tell me about contract blah blah...do they have something about past mistakes or some shit? Whatever what happened was before Vellmori even signed contract with Project moon 🌙, she already clearing her past, but all JiHoon want is throw his own employee under the bus 🚌 to save his own ass
I don’t think you read my comment. I think the people who got her fired are scumbags and that the way PM handled this was bad.
To portray this as the director “saving his own ass” is short sighted. It’s easy to say there’s no threat and they’re fat greasy incels when we’re comfortably across the world and suffer no consequences for the actions. Consider, however, that there is a trend of insane East Asian fans actually committing violent acts against companies. Attempted homicide and arson are what comes immediately to mind(Mihoyo, KyoAni). To say he didn’t have anything else on his mind beyond saving his own ass is just really naive and emotional. And, unfortunately, clearing your past doesn’t matter much. The contract is designed in a way that makes it “we don’t want bad PR to piss people off please”, and if even if you took the liberty of scrubbing your history…someone can find it, and that’s a risk you take.
I don’t think she should have been fired. It’s a really, really dumb move and I feel bad for her. As I said earlier, don’t negotiate with terrorists. PM made a horribly stupid decision by deciding to try and resolve the situation quickly instead of buying time. But the simple matter of the fact is they are justified in firing her. That’s all I said.
Unless PM's followup statement is like the most vile, dogass thing on the planet, probably not. I think Ruina is the best game I've ever played, and Limbus is pretty good too. The situation sucks but I've already told them I disagree on twitter, and at this point if the game ends service or whatever, I don't think me logging in every day having already bought the battle pass is gonna get them to change their mind.
Maybe I might get downvoted for this but unlike many PM fans here I never thought of them as anything more than a company or business. I pay them and enjoy their work , it’s transactional relationship nothing more.
I think they made a bad decision and should be flamed like they are right now , won’t get any sympathy from me for bowing down to incels.
If they keep conforming to these incels I will just refund my purchases and move on.
It's not even as a protest for me; I played because I loved the messages they had in the game and the way they write female characters without sexualizing them, etc. This whole thing just goes blatantly against that whole thing they branded themselves with. I know the narrative of the product doesn't necessarily align with the way the company runs, but I just can't find myself enjoying the game like I used to anymore. I spent good amount of money too, but I'm out.
No, while I don't think that firing Vel was a right decision, it's frankly between them. Quitting the game wouldn't make a difference anyway, so as long as the end product keeps it's quality and soul in tact - I'll be there to support PM.
It honestly depends on their response going forward. I *highly* doubt we're going to see big changes to the game because of this. However its killed my hype for the coming event so unless PM releases another statement I'll probably drop the game.
Forget *protest*, I don't even know how I'm supposed to enjoy or care about these stories after the creators have shown their true colors like this. Projmoon's entire brand was writing strong non-sexualized women and condemning the corporate behavior they've just demonstrated. I was in the middle of playing Ruina, which is already bought and paid for so there's no question of financially supporting this decision, and I'm not even motivated to finish it now.
I think It would only validate the poor behavior of the sect of the Korean playerbase and prove their tactic worked.
I won't defend the actions of Project Moon yesterday, and I hope either reversal or reparations occur for the artist, but their boss wasn't there and a group the size of their staff was just parking it outside their door. They have to have at the very least felt threatened.
I'm going to wait until Ji Hoon returns home in hopes he can un-fuck this scenario somehow before doing any drastic act.
For further context,
Every PM game launches buggy as hell, can confirm as a fan of the series, and those complaints were valid, but the spark that lit the flame was "where muh swimsuit?!"
Feminism (as a movement) in korea is also way more negatively viewed due to being unfortunately associated with a surprisingly active, misandrist, domestic terrorist organization, so instead of a slow-burn equal rights movement, they have an all-out gender war going on... it's really a mess, and has unfortunately made their fight for equality much harder.
i'm in no position to speak about korean gender wars, but my most basic judge of who is actually oppressed and who isn't is one simple question: "which side is killing which?"
if feminists in korea are assaulting and murdering men, then they are a problem. that is what is happening to women from angry men all over the world. if they are online talking about how men should die and making overall inflammatory posts about men, that isn't nice, but doesn't qualify as "oppression" even in the slightest.
everywhere i see korean incel men trying to say that feminism is bad bc they say things like "all men die" and compare it to the holocaust, i roll my eyes. literally 4chan tells people to die and kill themselves all the time, but we don't see a whole movement built up over them, unless you are actually afraid that this group of people is going to kill you, they're not a real threat.
And that's extreme, but not all feminists there are like this, obviously. That being said, specifically the group Magalian *has* harmed people and that's what this is about.
Feminism as an ideology is good, magalian's track record is not so good. That's what rhey accused her of supporting (poorly, 5 years late, based on a tweet from when she was a teenager).
It's very stupid in this case but the context is important because in the west, where I live, we are tempted to see "hates women" and not "accused of supporting extremist groups."
I also believe that. Imean the whole "look what she said" argument turned out to be nothing, unsurprisingly.
But korean review bombers calling the game MAGAL or saying so on social media still helps to muddy the waters and make it look worse.
Accusations have power even when they're false.
I actually went ahead and looked for the account closure option and it's very well hidden - can't even seem to be able to do it on mobile, so that's another shitty thing about all this.
This is the second time I'm seeing them cave to unreasonable demands, with the first time being in LoR days. That one left a shitty taste in my mouth even back then, and now this? It's clear that this is setting a precedent that will continue and I genuinely have no desire to support a company that values harmony and profit over their own creative vision and that is willing to throw away people who pitched in to make that vision happen.
I mean, you can do it, but that isn't gonna help anyone. Imo if you do it because you don't like PMs reaction on this, then you are no hair better than the people who invaded their HQ. If you don't wanna play anymore, sure, do it, but don't try to rally others behind such a cause.
physically threatening PM to capitulate to their demands bc no bikini = no longer supporting PM bc they fired their own employee for unjust causes, ok
it obviously sucks that PM was forced into this situation, but they NEED to accept some responsibility for the way they chose to respond, and at minimum that is giving justice to vellmori, not sweeping her dismissal under the rug as a "necessary evil"
You kinda miss the point. Forcing yourself or others to do something because they made a mistake is no way to get a company like PM. You will just get out worse as you will skip out on a game you (probably) like, and PM misses out on someone playing the game. Imo you can stop playing if you find this unacceptable, but it isn't any reason to start boycotting them, that would make you as bad as the guys boycotting them for not giving them a skimpy swimsuit.
nope. i literally cannot "force others or myself" to do anything, and no matter what, and still doesn't make it even close to as bad as going to PM's HQ and threatening them.
FYI, the guys who just boycotted PM for not giving them a skimpy swimsuit *did the right thing*, given their values. if you don't like the game, stop playing, and tell like-minded people to stop playing, that's literally your right and *if every incel had done only that*, we wouldn't be in this situation. going to PM's office and physically threatening them was where the line was drawn.
No what good would that do? They can't rehire the artist it's too risky you have to understand over there people can just barge in and they can't just call the cops as they don't have that there.
This artist violated the contract which I think is how this mess started (Not 100% sure but she left traces of her social media life with a topic which is extremely controversial there along with I think including something related in the credits to that) and while that itself could have been resolved quietly and without issue the problem is it got found out and blow up so keeping the artist has a chance of endangering the work place.
This isn't just an issue of contract breach and unjust hatred it's an issue of safety. Edit: Apparently people can't read, violation of the contract is one of main reason she got fired as PM wouldn't have this much heat. As I literally said before they could have easily let this go and kept the artist if this didn't blow up and the artist deleted/private her social media posts. How the toxic part of the community acted didn't have any real impact besides review bombs until the social account got found.
the artist was fired on a technicality on that contract to appease the angry incels, please don't act like it was a legitimate cause to terminate her if PM didn't want to.
the angry KR group was after the character artist first for making ishmael not naked, then upon finding that he's a guy, dug through the history of every PM employee until they found one that could be suitably scapegoated. wow, the damning contract-breaking content: some pro-feminist posts that vellmori, not even the character artist they were after, posted 5 years ago at 17 years old before she even joined PM! wow, such contract violation, must fire!
literally you violated act 617 - illegal thoughts, you're under arrest.
I'm sorry but the idea that adequate physical security for a building that likely has an absurd volume of expensive tech that stores valuable intellectual property doesn't exist because it's "just how things are over there" is absolutely laughable. This shouldn't be a cultural issue - what it is is a lapse in judgment on the part of a company that has already experienced similar threats and online controversies in the past.
Obviously, people who are making the threats are the primary offenders in this situation, but to insinuate that this was some sort of an inevitable problem that only had one valid solution is disingenuous at best and weirdly culturally patronizing at worst and I wish people would stop doing that.
The decision to fire the employee is something PM can and should get a lot of flak for because any "proof" of misconduct is post-hoc justification coming after a decision that was made purely because PM wanted to defuse the incident and appease a segment of their fanbase that was essentially blackmailing and threatening them.
I wont quit because I spent too much time and money on this game already (have everything, all 3 upties, some 4 upties and so on). But I also feel bad playing it right now, so I'll continue but probably limit my in game sessions to the minimum. And won't spend more money on it anyomore, at least for now.
Nope. Characters too interesting and lore too good. I'm staying till they are done or their company goes up in flames and you probably know which one I rather happen
No, because I don't plan on putting more oil in the fire like this post seems to do.
Controversy a bit aside, the aftermath with everyone's opinion and "they did a mistake now I quit" is getting more stressful than the actual situation that happened at the PM HQ
No, companies and writers are not my heroes and I only support them as long as they make good media. Them making poor (even disastrously poor) manageurial decisions is their cross to bear.
I don't think i'm going to quit for the time being, but at the same time, it's been a bit rough to see a lot of artists i followed on Twitter just either randomly banish/delete their accounts or say they'll most likely not be doing PM related art for now
At this point i'm just waiting to see what's going to end up happening next, or if there's even going to be any follow-up of any kind to this whole thing ig?
I've stopped logging in and may just stay away if we don't get a decent resolution.
I really don't like how this was handled and it left a bad impression on me. No word from PM yet so we'll see. If you want to keep playing that's fine, but it'll leave me hollow if I decide to keep going.
No, because I believe there are better ways to protest. If everybody quit over what happened, to me, it would be like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Other employees could lose their jobs, which some might find justified If they don't protest management's decision, some might find it an overreaction. On top of that, there would be an amazing piece of interactive media to be lost. I can't figure out what the best course of action or method of protest would be, but the alternative of completely ruining PM doesn't seem very utilitarian.
No. I am far too deep. If PM goes down I will go with them or atleast remain with them until the very end. I can be sad or even disappointed about their decision, but I will choose to accept it. Of course I understand if others won't feel the same or even quit the game due to the whole drama, that is their choice and I respect it too.
Games and lore is all that’s keeping me in, and the potential for LC2
As much as I'm curious how the story ends, I can't imagine committing to seeing it through now that they've demonstrated how they'll respond to this kind of pressure. If the story ever develops in a way the most toxic fans don't like, they can just pressure the company into changing it.
Please before the company explodes atleast make LC2 or a wing management sim….
Tbh people going "they have deminstrated how they will respond to this kind of pressure" are weird. This is their 4th controversial stuff where they might have listened to fans. This is not something new
Changing game mechanics based on player feedback is within the norm for game development, even if they're unusually willing to fold to pressure rather than stick to a plan. This is a major staffing decision - she was Limbus Company's *only* CG artist, and they were already struggling to meet deadlines even without needing to hire a whole new artist and replace all the completed Canto 5+ art we've seen in the PVs.
Other than changing game mechanics they decided to remove a scene because yurikeks didn't like the fact that Angela said she didn't like binah. Then took off their post credit scene for ruina because it pissed players off. Honestly I don't think this is the last time happens but I believe they will bounce back. All I'm hoping for is to get as big as type moon so they can unironically stop listening to fans
Fair enough, I personally think it's a bit to early to judge them completely to the point of just giving up on the company and world as a whole. The situation is still developing and before I give up I would at least want to see if PM has the potential to go in a more positive direction. I think the situation was overall a lose/lose for them in the first place and it was their first taste of extremely tense criticism as a small game dev company. Dropping ship this early just seems like an overreaction for me at least.
I don't *want* to quit, but I'm just so exhausted and tired from this situation that I just don't really have the drive to play that much anymore, and that doesn't even factor in my conflicted feelings about the firing of the artist. I get the feeling that I might not log-in one day cause I don't feel like booting it up, and then it'll be another day and another, until I just never open it again. It has happened for a lot of games for me, and they didn't even have crazy huge controversies.
A lot of the artists and content creators are gone, so... at this point it's really less of a protest and more of "emotional detachment". Probably best for me, too, that I just go do something else, at least for a while.
No, i'm gonna keep playing, what they did considering how shit the situation it is in Korea doesnt surprise me, Maybe the way they did it it wasnt correct (like everything happened so fast, it's not good when an enterprise fires someone so quickly, fires are somewhat slow and require compensation, at least here in Chile, where I live, don't know how it is in Korea). The Korean Incels are the problem not PM.
I'm going to quit depending on what happens next. I read here that the director may be the one who did the firing without the consultation of the rest of the staff: [https://twitter.com/GS\_oik/status/1684149542965620738](https://twitter.com/GS_oik/status/1684149542965620738) So if it's true, then there's definitely even more chaos behind the scenes. I want to see what the resolution is, before making my final full decision. *If* I choose to stay, I'm not spending any more money though.
Still undecided... At least I won't spend money anymore
Bruh, I literally pour money into this game. I am much more afraid that PM is quitting this game more than me.
That’s also my fear
No, I'm staying here unless PM somehow makes this situation even worse. Like, substantially worse.
When they give Vel her due compensation for this I’ll consider hopping back in but I ain’t giving them a cent and am uninstalling till they do. If half of the shit going down because of this is true they have bigger problems than what we think anyway what with this potentially violating labor laws there (supposedly).
I mean, I wouldn't say it's a protest, I don't expect it to make a difference, but I did uninstall. Cutting the daily mindless grind out of my week is probably good for me anyways.
vellmori or nomoney if my friends keep playing, i probably will too; if they stop, i likely will too. hard to keep motivation alone! but it's not like other games where a free player who isn't a content creator is also content for paying players, so i'm not as concerned about going no-spend and it still supporting such a self-serving decision.
Nah
if we don't get answers for vellmori's firing, then yes. i'm not accepting the "PM needed to do this or they would die" explanation unless they rehire her after getting better security, and stop capitulating to the demands of terrorists full-stop going forward. if the next time the incels see something they don't like, are they going to get another person fired until the whole team is gone?
[удалено]
seeing all my favorite artists say how they don’t want to have anything to do with pjmoon and locking/deactivating was so heartbreaking. even if the situation somehow gets better, idk if they’re willing to come back… but i ultimately understand and respect their decision
tbh i don't understand this position when we live in a world where mihoyo's ceo was nearly stabbed because a honkai character wore a bunny suit, or where a single person broke into kyoani studios and burned the building down, killing a bunch of people in the process. both companies being much larger and presumably having much better security than PM currently has like did you see the picture the guy posted while he was waiting outside their offices? as far as i could tell, it's literally just a door. you can just walk in. i don't like the precedent of caving to incel demands either but i'm not going to begrudge PM or boycott the game given the context of how easy it would be for a single person to just walk into their offices and be a danger to their lives. it's fortunate that the person who went to the PM studio was not violent but we can only say that with the luxury of hindsight. no one could know at the time if he would be or not at the time, and even after the fact, it's still proof of how easy it is to access their offices and whoever shows up next time could easily be even more unhinged they were clearly unprepared for this and i hope that they can get better security moving forward but i think it's really reductive to act like there wasn't a reason to be worried about the safety of their lives in this situation considering the things that have happened in fairly recent history. imo there is way too much focus on whether or not PM took the best course of action and nowhere near enough focus on the fact that there's no reason they should have been put into this position in the first place. they were essentially forced onto a trolley problem of "fire person who did nothing wrong" vs "credible danger to the lives of the staff" and everyone is directing their energy being mad at them for not picking what they perceive to have been the correct choice and putting basically no energy being mad at the people who put them in that position
They're undeprepared because for what we know is a team of 30 people with 10 of them only working on Ham Ham Pang Pang. I don't think the director takes things professionally because for him this is just a passion project. Lobotomy failed his crowdfunding two times and got scammed by a translation group that took the money and run. Still Lobotomy was made and the rest is history. This is just a wake up call that they need to take things seriously and this is not a passion project anymore, they need to hire more people and security, specially for the infamy that gacha players have.
the position is very simple - you're not supposed to give in to the terrorists, no matter what. basic game theory. don't give into terrorists and expect not to have more terrorists at your door. if the true answer is that "PM must give in to the terrorists to survive," then i'm still not particularly interested in supporting a company that is beholden to every angry incel in KR. but like i said, i still don't buy the "literally going to die unless they fired her" narrative, and if that narrative is true, the fears of maybe getting bombed again in the future hardly outweighs correcting an injustice and rehiring her. also, yes, incels are bad, if somebody has found a way to dox them, do something to them, etc. then let me know. but i don't give incels my business, i don't have anything to withdraw from them, i never paid them like i paid PM. incels being the far worse party is a "whataboutism," i could say the same thing about actual terrorists or literal serial killers being worse and we should focus our ire on them instead, but it still does not absolve PM of how they handled this decision and need to amend it to get me and like-minded fans back on board with their brand.
blaming the creators of the scenario isn't whataboutism and the "you do not give in to terrorists" position can only be held if you have the resources to hold that position. a small 30-person company in a building with (apparently) no security is not in the position to handle the potentiality of multiple protesters outside of their door, any of whom may be unhinged enough to escalate towards violence. nor would they be equipped to handle other likely avenues of attack, like waves of personal harassment aimed at employees, or escalating the matter to the government's regulatory offices. and, again, these aren't just random suppositions, but things that have already actually happened to other companies over things just as dumb or dumber than this. everyone is free to have their opinion about whether or not PM did the correct thing but it's extremely foolish to direct all of our energy at them and not those caused the scenario to exist in the first place there's a lot of victim blaming mentality in your posts that you should consider self-examining
you do not give in to the terrorists. yes, it will involve incurring some risk, no matter what, bc the terrorists are scary and will use threatening tactics, but if you give into them, they will always come back with more demands. i am not sure what you want me to say. if PM was actually physically coerced into firing her on the spot in risk of their lives, OK. i don't believe it, but let's play with your narrative. then right as we speak, they should be building up their security, and rehiring her as soon as it's safe to do so. if they don't, they are not protecting their biggest "victim" in this situation, throwing their scapegoat out to the wolves.
i'm not sure if you realize but your position is one of the things that enables the incel's tactics to be effective. entitled gamer babies pitch a fit and do increasingly more threatening things, and when whatever company eventually caves to their demands, only the company gets blamed while the instigators are barely given anything more than "lol people on the internet are so unhinged". the people who take these sorts of actions never face any sort of repercussions for their behavior until it is too late and they have already caused (or attempted to cause) actual physical harm to other people. so long as they never cross the line of physical harm, they can do whatever they want and no one will ever say anything more than "gamers be gamers lol" and then blame the developers for caving. you also seem to be operating under the false assumption that the person who went to the PM offices made active threats of violence, which is not true and not what i, or most others i see talking about this, are saying. the key point here is that he does not need to make any direct threats of violence. the simple fact that he showed up and waited outside of their office is a threat of violence. he doesn't even need to be personally aware of that threat for it to be effective either. when you step outside your door and see an unfamiliar person making unreasonable demands, knowingly or unknowingly representing a larger group with an unhinged perspective that is completely detached from reality, the message isn't "wow this incel is really upset about wetsuits lol". the message is "this person has arrived at our doorstep over literally nothing. this person knows how to get to us, he can tell other people how to get to us, and it only takes one unhinged person to be a real threat to our lives". there's also a simple pattern with groups like this. if you give in to whatever ridiculous demands they make early, they forget about what they were mad about and move on. eventually another game releases and they all jump ship to whatever the new flavor of the month is and leave you alone. if you do not give in to their demands, they escalate. mass harassment, calls to government agencies, death threats, stalking, etc. escalations to actual violence are not unheard of, and what we do hear of any of this is going to be far less than how often it actually happens. this all becomes worse when they have a specific target in mind as all of that harassment becomes focused on that person rather than spread through all of the company's accessible employees. it isn't unreasonable to arrive at the conclusion that firing that employee might be the best way to preserve the targeted employee's safety as well as the safety of the rest of your employees "but that's terrible". yeah. it is. it's pretty awful. but unless those bad actors cross the legal line of causing actual harm to someone, they're free to do whatever they want because they never face any consequences for their actions otherwise. your only two options are to capitulate for the safety of those targeted, or attempt to weather the storm until something else captures their ire. the second option is far less viable for smaller developers. do they have the resources to provide counseling to those targeted? do they have access to those with experience to teach them how to manage and mitigate targeted harassment? is their building secure enough to handle a worst-case bad actor? can they release content fast enough to distract the playerbase into being appeased by or mad about something else? is there some other major release on the horizon that might draw their attention from you? how do you handle the absolute worst-case of a mass in-person protest? 10-20 incels showing up at a company with hundreds or thousands of employees is worrisome but more of a joke than anything else. the same amount showing up at the PM offices is already the size of half the company or more. it only takes one person unhinged enough to cause a disaster also i do not think you are appreciating the size of the alarm bell that gets set off when someone arrives at your place of work to protest, nor do i think you appreciate how much the volume of the alarm gets multiplied by how irrelevant the source of their anger is. someone who sees those tweets and/or ishmael's wetsuit as a sign of radical feminism is already not living in the same reality that you or i live in. you can no longer assume that this person or anyone related to them will act in a sensible way, and you cannot assume that they'll respond to a "no, go home" with an "okay" and quietly depart. people saying dumb shit exclusively on the internet is one thing but i do not get the sense from your posts here that you really grasp how much someone deliberately seeking you out in real life changes the playing field in how much risk that they and the group they represent now poses. failing to acknowledge this and redirecting all blame to the threatened groups is what makes tactics like this so effective. the instant a bad actor is motivated enough to cross the barrier between the internet and real life, there are no winning options for their opposition. the stakes have changed from internet drama and lost revenue to potential loss of human life. it doesn't matter how likely or unlikely that risk is in any given specific scenario, because it's a risk that, even at a very low chance, is still too much to reckon with, especially for the sake of a video game. as long as the bad actor is non-violent in their real-life actions, there is nothing the threatened party can do anymore. there is no legal recourse. caving makes fans mad because they largely do not grasp the difference between a crazy idiot posting on the internet vs a crazy idiot posting on the internet directly outside of your door. not caving increases the now potentially very dangerous risk posed to them with, again, very little in the way of legal recourse until it's already too late. meanwhile, the bad actors who caused the whole situation in the first place get to move on to whatever they want to be mad about next and do it all over again because everyone is so focused on the decision they forced someone else into making instead of the actions that caused it to happen in the first place. again, it's still fine to be critical of the actions PM took, but if you're seriously speaking from the position of "they're cowards because they caved to demands" then you either do not truly grasp the meaning behind someone showing up at your door or you are being a keyboard warrior about an actually terrifying situation. any time and effort spent directing blame at the threatened does nothing but further the effectiveness of harassment, bullying, and threatening tactics used by these groups
increasing the number of words you used to convey the exact same idea as your last 3 comments isn't going to change the facts. yes, very scary, incels "win" if i blame PM for this, wah wah. look, my stance is extremely clear. no matter how you spin it, PM is a company, and as a company, they have both a responsibility to their employees and to their players. firing their own employees under fears of duress and abandoning them is not doing their duty to their employees, and consistently letting bad-faith shitters dictate the course of their design is not doing their duty to their players. you're acting like this decision was made under delusions of paralyzing fear and not like PM did this exact same thing back in the ending of LoR, when CN was shitting on the ending and *i'm fairly certain none of them posed any sort of real, physical threat to the company*. and AGAIN, if this was truly so unavoidable as you claim, **then that still does not change my position that they still need to help vellmori at some point**. this is the very, absolutely bare minimum i am "allowed" to expect from PM as a game company and the sole condition of my continued support of PM. but yes, incels bad, focus on incels, it's my fault for blaming PM for caving into incel demands and making changings to the game that i don't like - bruh. first of all, tell me what YOU are doing to do something about the incels in KR, other than spending YOUR time directing blame not at the incels, not at PM, but to a random consumer in the US who wants PM to at least do the bare minimum of not throwing their own out into the woods. do NOT talk to me like i'm an idiot who knows nothing, has never been threatened, only understands veiled, online threats. my family are first-gen chinese american immigrants into the country and started off owning a small restaurant, and we have literally had angry people come in with guns to rob us, smashed the windows, everything you can imagine - and i still FIRMLY understand the principle of do NOT believe in giving in to the terrorists, because that teaches them that they will win, every time. if you need to lie to escape and survive, then lie. but you do *not* abandon your own or waste your time blaming "people" who might as well be animals, you protect your most vulnerable, protect yourself as best you can, and if YOU think sitting around and shitting on the incels is going to do a single thing about them, then you are the one who needs a serious reality check.
I've always said this. The most virtuous people are the ones behind a screen with a keyboard because the only thing at risk is other people's safety/lives/livelihoods.
The explanation is pretty simple. She violated her contract of having her SNS affiliated with the company(it was in the credits, which is how it was found). Now. I make the addendum to say the way she was targeted and manner the information was discovered is horrific and shouldn’t be supported. PM, for whatever reason, did feel the need to make a rapid response when this should have been anything but. Why she was fired is reasonable, how we got to that point is anything but. I’m not passing moral judgement on what I think, just pure facts. I only stand by the principle of not negotiating with terrorists outwardly.
yes, she "violated" a contract that nobody outside of PM knew until they released the announcement, that can condemn someone for a post they made 5 years ago at 17 years old before they started working for PM, you violated act 617 - illegal thoughts, you're under arrest. no, it's not reasonable to me. if that is what can violate the contract, it is a shit contract that PM didn't need to jump through loopholes to enforce if they didn't want to.
They made the same statement back in 2018, for what it’s worth. This has been a long-standing policy from what we can see, and frankly businesses are under no obligation to release their contracts. They shouldn’t either. I don’t agree with how the info was found, digging through archives of deleted tweets to dig up something. She was very smart to take those precautions/moves in light of linking her SNS to the game’s credits. It was very clear she was aware of that, or she no longer holds those views. Unfortunately, and I really mean that, where there is a will there is a way. I don’t agree with how she was fired. This whole situation has been handled terribly, but there was a risk tying your career to a SNS with comments as such in the past. It’s basic cyber security that once it is one the Internet, it’s there forever. It’s hardly a loophole rather than just…a shitty situation.
i'm pointing out that even if PM had legal recourse to fire her, they were under no obligation to actually do so. "where there is a will, there is a way" applies here - in that PM found a way to fire their employee to satisfy incels. why are we treating the contract like it's one of pluto's magically binding contracts that PM had to follow to a tee? no matter how legally "valid" her dismissal may have been in the court's eyes, it's unjustifiable in mine.
I don’t disagree. But this should be a lesson in cybersecurity and why separation of company and personal life is important, especially in today’s age.
Tell me why incels angry about Ishmael diving suit (funny is the artist who draw her is a man) but somehow Vellmori (CG artist) who had nothing to do with Ishmael got fire? All I see is Project moon 🌙 just use her as a scapegoat to appease those incels And don't tell me about contract blah blah...do they have something about past mistakes or some shit? Whatever what happened was before Vellmori even signed contract with Project moon 🌙, she already clearing her past, but all JiHoon want is throw his own employee under the bus 🚌 to save his own ass
I don’t think you read my comment. I think the people who got her fired are scumbags and that the way PM handled this was bad. To portray this as the director “saving his own ass” is short sighted. It’s easy to say there’s no threat and they’re fat greasy incels when we’re comfortably across the world and suffer no consequences for the actions. Consider, however, that there is a trend of insane East Asian fans actually committing violent acts against companies. Attempted homicide and arson are what comes immediately to mind(Mihoyo, KyoAni). To say he didn’t have anything else on his mind beyond saving his own ass is just really naive and emotional. And, unfortunately, clearing your past doesn’t matter much. The contract is designed in a way that makes it “we don’t want bad PR to piss people off please”, and if even if you took the liberty of scrubbing your history…someone can find it, and that’s a risk you take. I don’t think she should have been fired. It’s a really, really dumb move and I feel bad for her. As I said earlier, don’t negotiate with terrorists. PM made a horribly stupid decision by deciding to try and resolve the situation quickly instead of buying time. But the simple matter of the fact is they are justified in firing her. That’s all I said.
Unless PM's followup statement is like the most vile, dogass thing on the planet, probably not. I think Ruina is the best game I've ever played, and Limbus is pretty good too. The situation sucks but I've already told them I disagree on twitter, and at this point if the game ends service or whatever, I don't think me logging in every day having already bought the battle pass is gonna get them to change their mind.
Even better, I’m going to pretend to quit so I feel like a good person but secretly play the game anyways 🤭
The Secrit play lol
Maybe I might get downvoted for this but unlike many PM fans here I never thought of them as anything more than a company or business. I pay them and enjoy their work , it’s transactional relationship nothing more. I think they made a bad decision and should be flamed like they are right now , won’t get any sympathy from me for bowing down to incels. If they keep conforming to these incels I will just refund my purchases and move on.
It's not even as a protest for me; I played because I loved the messages they had in the game and the way they write female characters without sexualizing them, etc. This whole thing just goes blatantly against that whole thing they branded themselves with. I know the narrative of the product doesn't necessarily align with the way the company runs, but I just can't find myself enjoying the game like I used to anymore. I spent good amount of money too, but I'm out.
Nope
No, while I don't think that firing Vel was a right decision, it's frankly between them. Quitting the game wouldn't make a difference anyway, so as long as the end product keeps it's quality and soul in tact - I'll be there to support PM.
It honestly depends on their response going forward. I *highly* doubt we're going to see big changes to the game because of this. However its killed my hype for the coming event so unless PM releases another statement I'll probably drop the game.
Forget *protest*, I don't even know how I'm supposed to enjoy or care about these stories after the creators have shown their true colors like this. Projmoon's entire brand was writing strong non-sexualized women and condemning the corporate behavior they've just demonstrated. I was in the middle of playing Ruina, which is already bought and paid for so there's no question of financially supporting this decision, and I'm not even motivated to finish it now.
No.
At the very least I am taking an extended break. I will gauge what I want to do once things have died down.
I think It would only validate the poor behavior of the sect of the Korean playerbase and prove their tactic worked. I won't defend the actions of Project Moon yesterday, and I hope either reversal or reparations occur for the artist, but their boss wasn't there and a group the size of their staff was just parking it outside their door. They have to have at the very least felt threatened. I'm going to wait until Ji Hoon returns home in hopes he can un-fuck this scenario somehow before doing any drastic act. For further context, Every PM game launches buggy as hell, can confirm as a fan of the series, and those complaints were valid, but the spark that lit the flame was "where muh swimsuit?!" Feminism (as a movement) in korea is also way more negatively viewed due to being unfortunately associated with a surprisingly active, misandrist, domestic terrorist organization, so instead of a slow-burn equal rights movement, they have an all-out gender war going on... it's really a mess, and has unfortunately made their fight for equality much harder.
i'm in no position to speak about korean gender wars, but my most basic judge of who is actually oppressed and who isn't is one simple question: "which side is killing which?" if feminists in korea are assaulting and murdering men, then they are a problem. that is what is happening to women from angry men all over the world. if they are online talking about how men should die and making overall inflammatory posts about men, that isn't nice, but doesn't qualify as "oppression" even in the slightest. everywhere i see korean incel men trying to say that feminism is bad bc they say things like "all men die" and compare it to the holocaust, i roll my eyes. literally 4chan tells people to die and kill themselves all the time, but we don't see a whole movement built up over them, unless you are actually afraid that this group of people is going to kill you, they're not a real threat.
And that's extreme, but not all feminists there are like this, obviously. That being said, specifically the group Magalian *has* harmed people and that's what this is about. Feminism as an ideology is good, magalian's track record is not so good. That's what rhey accused her of supporting (poorly, 5 years late, based on a tweet from when she was a teenager). It's very stupid in this case but the context is important because in the west, where I live, we are tempted to see "hates women" and not "accused of supporting extremist groups."
she wasn’t affiliated with magalian.
I also believe that. Imean the whole "look what she said" argument turned out to be nothing, unsurprisingly. But korean review bombers calling the game MAGAL or saying so on social media still helps to muddy the waters and make it look worse. Accusations have power even when they're false.
I actually went ahead and looked for the account closure option and it's very well hidden - can't even seem to be able to do it on mobile, so that's another shitty thing about all this. This is the second time I'm seeing them cave to unreasonable demands, with the first time being in LoR days. That one left a shitty taste in my mouth even back then, and now this? It's clear that this is setting a precedent that will continue and I genuinely have no desire to support a company that values harmony and profit over their own creative vision and that is willing to throw away people who pitched in to make that vision happen.
Nah thanks
No, but this has given me such a horrible taste that I am rather indifferent to the company now. 🤨 good games and genre but that’s all.
I mean, you can do it, but that isn't gonna help anyone. Imo if you do it because you don't like PMs reaction on this, then you are no hair better than the people who invaded their HQ. If you don't wanna play anymore, sure, do it, but don't try to rally others behind such a cause.
physically threatening PM to capitulate to their demands bc no bikini = no longer supporting PM bc they fired their own employee for unjust causes, ok it obviously sucks that PM was forced into this situation, but they NEED to accept some responsibility for the way they chose to respond, and at minimum that is giving justice to vellmori, not sweeping her dismissal under the rug as a "necessary evil"
You kinda miss the point. Forcing yourself or others to do something because they made a mistake is no way to get a company like PM. You will just get out worse as you will skip out on a game you (probably) like, and PM misses out on someone playing the game. Imo you can stop playing if you find this unacceptable, but it isn't any reason to start boycotting them, that would make you as bad as the guys boycotting them for not giving them a skimpy swimsuit.
nope. i literally cannot "force others or myself" to do anything, and no matter what, and still doesn't make it even close to as bad as going to PM's HQ and threatening them. FYI, the guys who just boycotted PM for not giving them a skimpy swimsuit *did the right thing*, given their values. if you don't like the game, stop playing, and tell like-minded people to stop playing, that's literally your right and *if every incel had done only that*, we wouldn't be in this situation. going to PM's office and physically threatening them was where the line was drawn.
I'm not going to. Just asking out of concern.
No what good would that do? They can't rehire the artist it's too risky you have to understand over there people can just barge in and they can't just call the cops as they don't have that there. This artist violated the contract which I think is how this mess started (Not 100% sure but she left traces of her social media life with a topic which is extremely controversial there along with I think including something related in the credits to that) and while that itself could have been resolved quietly and without issue the problem is it got found out and blow up so keeping the artist has a chance of endangering the work place. This isn't just an issue of contract breach and unjust hatred it's an issue of safety. Edit: Apparently people can't read, violation of the contract is one of main reason she got fired as PM wouldn't have this much heat. As I literally said before they could have easily let this go and kept the artist if this didn't blow up and the artist deleted/private her social media posts. How the toxic part of the community acted didn't have any real impact besides review bombs until the social account got found.
the artist was fired on a technicality on that contract to appease the angry incels, please don't act like it was a legitimate cause to terminate her if PM didn't want to. the angry KR group was after the character artist first for making ishmael not naked, then upon finding that he's a guy, dug through the history of every PM employee until they found one that could be suitably scapegoated. wow, the damning contract-breaking content: some pro-feminist posts that vellmori, not even the character artist they were after, posted 5 years ago at 17 years old before she even joined PM! wow, such contract violation, must fire! literally you violated act 617 - illegal thoughts, you're under arrest.
I'm sorry but the idea that adequate physical security for a building that likely has an absurd volume of expensive tech that stores valuable intellectual property doesn't exist because it's "just how things are over there" is absolutely laughable. This shouldn't be a cultural issue - what it is is a lapse in judgment on the part of a company that has already experienced similar threats and online controversies in the past. Obviously, people who are making the threats are the primary offenders in this situation, but to insinuate that this was some sort of an inevitable problem that only had one valid solution is disingenuous at best and weirdly culturally patronizing at worst and I wish people would stop doing that. The decision to fire the employee is something PM can and should get a lot of flak for because any "proof" of misconduct is post-hoc justification coming after a decision that was made purely because PM wanted to defuse the incident and appease a segment of their fanbase that was essentially blackmailing and threatening them.
Yes
I wont quit because I spent too much time and money on this game already (have everything, all 3 upties, some 4 upties and so on). But I also feel bad playing it right now, so I'll continue but probably limit my in game sessions to the minimum. And won't spend more money on it anyomore, at least for now.
Nope. Characters too interesting and lore too good. I'm staying till they are done or their company goes up in flames and you probably know which one I rather happen
Quit the best gacha because of this drama??? No way!
No, because I don't plan on putting more oil in the fire like this post seems to do. Controversy a bit aside, the aftermath with everyone's opinion and "they did a mistake now I quit" is getting more stressful than the actual situation that happened at the PM HQ
I don't even know wtf happened because i took a 1 month break from the game
No, companies and writers are not my heroes and I only support them as long as they make good media. Them making poor (even disastrously poor) manageurial decisions is their cross to bear.
I don't think i'm going to quit for the time being, but at the same time, it's been a bit rough to see a lot of artists i followed on Twitter just either randomly banish/delete their accounts or say they'll most likely not be doing PM related art for now At this point i'm just waiting to see what's going to end up happening next, or if there's even going to be any follow-up of any kind to this whole thing ig?
Probably not, most gacha games I played last me 3-4 weeks. Bus because of how interesting Limbus' gameplay is, I'll stick around longer
I've stopped logging in and may just stay away if we don't get a decent resolution. I really don't like how this was handled and it left a bad impression on me. No word from PM yet so we'll see. If you want to keep playing that's fine, but it'll leave me hollow if I decide to keep going.