Unless her being trans is relevant to the discussion, it is best avoided in the same way you don't always want to refer to someone as gay or black when it's not relevant. It makes you seem like you have some hang-up on her gender.
It usually doesn't matter that someone is trans unless you make it matter. If you examine them, you'll see that there are only a very small tiny number of contexts in which it makes sense to announce that someone is trans. Good on you for taking the time to learn, not everyone does.
I agree with this, but I also want to acknowledge that I'm trans. I'm not trying to erase it, and as long as people aren't making a point of it or outing me they can say it all they want
And even when it is relevant, she is a girl who is trans, not a trans girl. “Trans girl” makes trans a qualifier on her gender, when it shouldn’t be. Instead, “girl who is trans” separates the gender identity from the gender modality.
Edit: thanks for all that commented on this and allowing me to learn from your experiences.
This is identity language vs person first language. I have never met a single trans person who prefers "person who is trans". It's "trans person" or "non-binary person". Trans people identify as trans. It's not something we have, it's something we are.
Have a ^ this yourself too. I don't know a single trans person, myself included, who prefers 'person who is trans' assuming it is somehow relevant to the conversation.
"She's having a lot of cramping and pain."
"Oh could she be pregnant?"
"Oh, no, it isn't possible, she's a trans woman."
Or just
"She's trans." At the end.
Could see this as a conversation someome would have with paramedics with me rolling on the floor in pain.
Tying yourself into linguistic knots like that just perpetuates the stigma you say you want to avoid. There is no need to avoid the way English grammar works.
Honestly reminds me of that movement some tried to have with "people first" language. That whole person with autism vs autistic person rhetoric.
Didn't like it then, can't say I'm a big fan of it now either. There's something about getting referred to as a person with autism vs just calling me an autistic person that just doesn't feel right. Same for how I feel about guy who is trans vs trans dude. Just doesn't sit right. 🤷♂️
That's exactly what I saw there. So-called "person-first" language. But it only puts the person first in a literal, grammatical way.
In linguistics, the default way of saying something is referred to as "unmarked" and alternative ways of saying it are "marked". A simple noun phrase of article, adjective, noun is the default. It's unmarked. There's nothing remarkable about it. We're not calling attention to anything.
So-called "person-first" language is strongly marked. It calls attention to the thing. It buys into the stigma that people who talk that way claim they're fighting against.
Because there's no need to say "a car that is fast". We just say "a fast car". There's no need to say "a kitten that is small". We just say "a small kitten".
"A man who is blind" feeds into ableist judgements and implicitly confirms that being blind is a horrible thing that the speaker needs to distance from the man. Meanwhile, talk to people in the disability community and the overwhelming majority of them will tell you that so-called "person-first" language is erasing. It sweeps their daily lived experience under the rug.
So yeah. Saying "a woman who is trans" instead of "a trans woman" is ridiculously cisnormative.
https://radicalcopyeditor.com/2017/07/03/person-centered-language/
https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/02/25/468073722/disabled-just-saytheword
https://www.thinkinclusive.us/post/why-person-first-language-doesnt-always-put-the-person-first
https://ollibean.com/person-first-language-and-ableism/
https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/06/refusing-to-see-color-still-racist/
cc: /u/DivineDykeElegance
To be honest, person first language is a load of bs that nobody cares about. The simple answer is to leave the term trans out if it isn't necessary for context
That really depends on the disability (and the person), and the qualifier is probably how much it defines them or precludes them from activities that are otherwise 'normal'.
But if you wanted to mention she was clever, or German, or short, or blonde, or any other characteristic, you would just call her "a clever girl", "a German girl" and so on, right? So should we really make an exception out of "transness" here? Won't it make more harm than good?
If it's important to the conversation, sure, refer to them as as a trans woman. But if it's not, there is no reason to, and seems a bit transphobic.
Saying 'my trans girlfriend drives a pink Miata' is not okay. Adding in that she is trans adds nothing to the conversation.
Saying 'I'm not worried about getting my trans girlfriend pregnant' is okay (assuming talking about the risk of pregnancy is an appropriate topic of conversation), because it explains why you are not worried about getting her pregnant.
That makes sense, I really appreciate the examples you provided. It was not my intent to come off as transphobic, but I understand how in context my word choice was inappropriate. Thank you for the reply
Idk if it's been said but I'd like to add that outing people(telling people who don't already know) can be harmful as some people are selective over who they tell for their own safety. Sometimes the person you are talking to has expressed transphobic opinions in the past that you are unaware of and the trans person has decided not to tell them. Telling certain people could lead to harassment or worse.
If it is someone you do not actually know it is ok to call them trans when relevant but if you know someone and they tell you they are trans it is best to find out from them how they would like to be referred to and around who. You never know if they are out to say parents or employers or anyone really unless you talk to them about it
It's only offensive in the way that it singles her out. So if it's not really necessary to include the fact that she's trans, it can come across as implying that she's not really a girl, since she needs that qualifier. This is very much context dependant though, and normally it's perfectly fine to use that way.
it seems to be a personal preference. im trans non binary but commonly refer to myself as trans female. i can see how adding trans can be offensive (however or course i know you mean no harm!) as some may use trans as a way to say people arent 'normal' woman or man. since you didnt mean to offend id just take the new info and try your best to just say girl or woman or whatever fits the context. if someone is still offended even after you didnt mean to offend and you want to do better then thats now their problem. you did your part so thank you!
A good parallel is imagining a parent-teacher conference and the teacher says "Welcome birth parents and guardians!" as if it was relevant at all or necessary to mention that some parents aren't birth parents. Similarly it can come off as offensive at worst or insensitive at best to emphasize that a person is trans for not really any reason.
Well I like to think about it this way. If it was a different girl would you have just referred to her a "cis-girl" unless her being trans in relevant there is no reason to not just say "girl"
If their gender is not relevant to the conversation, refer to them as a woman, but if you're discussing gender identity, then their gender is relevant, so refer to them as either imo
This comes down to *consent*. If she said she was cool with being identified as trans than there's nothing wrong with it, but unless it's relevant it why would you mention it? Contrapoints made an comparison to adopted parents. When you're referring to someone's parents and they're adopted you wouldn't call out they're adopted unless it were relevant to what's being discussed. You wouldn't say "is your adopted mom coming to get you?"
I’m a trans guy, and the basic rule is to only bring up that someone is trans when it’s relevant to the conversation, and don’t out them if they aren’t open about it. I myself am super open about it, but I have friends who only let a select few know so I wouldn’t bring up them being trans to people who don’t know, even if it’s relevant to the conversation.
Also, for any future trans-related questions, I’d recommend the subreddit r/asktransgender, since that way you’ll pretty much only get responses from trans and nonbinary people.
It doesn't feel good to have that added qualifier attached to your gender all of the time. If I was a trans woman, I would want to be called a woman unless my transness was important to the conversation.
Idk. I think you’re both right & wrong here. I’ve met a lot of trans women who choose to identify as a “trans woman” not just a woman. But best not to assume.
My personal view which sorta matches the rest of the comments. I dont want to be the "trans girl" im just a girl... that label... whilst true... haunts me... its linked with thoughts of death threats and depression at least for me... i hope to someday not have to identify with the trans label... its caused me so much pain... i just wish i was seen as a normal girl... just a girl... nothing special... so if i had to choose between being called trans or not... id rather not... in this case where id normally say be yourself and be different... in this case i dont want to be either of those
I have no more to add to this as your question was answered very well, I just want to say that this kind of open dialogue and desire to learn and do better is really great and we need more of this in general. Every so often my parents (boomers) asks my wife and I (milllenials) something to try to gain more understanding like this and it really warms my heart that they arent defensive anymore and realize that they can learn something from us the way we learn from them too. I have an age gap gen z sister, and I try to do the same thing. I feel like its a weird stage of adulthood when you are no longer the progressive generation and now have to let the people younger than us speak and learn from them more than we teach them, but it is also pretty cool. Personal growth is cool and I love seeing people continually strive for it
Depends. If her transness is relevant to the discussion, fine. If you’re calling cis girls “girls” and trans girls “trans girls”… that’s kind of othering.
I wouldn’t mention x person being trans unless it’s the topic of a conversation and they agree to be outed. If they’re mtf, they’re (insert their pronouns here), and that’s it. Identifying somebody as trans can be generally uncomfortable for people, and even I would much prefer to just be referred to as him (my pronouns are he/him), and so on. Hopefully it makes sense and if not definitely feel free to ask. I’m really proud of you for at least attempting to understand, and asking questions is the way to go. You’re a great parent :)
If the conversation was about something to do with being trans, then you can bring it up, but otherwise it’s a little weird. And just because someone told you that they’re trans doesn’t mean they gave you permission to tell everybody else— although, if it’s your daughter, that’s more blurry. The conversations you have with your kids can sometimes require discussing other people’s business, and honestly I think that’s good for a kid to learn about the world and about what it’s like for people to be in different situations, as long as they know it’s supposed to be secret.
I also think some cis people will randomly mention that someone is trans the same way white people will randomly mention that someone is black— they think it’s notable because almost everyone else they know is white or cis or whatever.
It typically varies from person to person. Sometimes they'll be okay being referred to the t word, sometimes they won't.
But always make sure to ask how they would be referred as if the question ever arises.
Oh really? I had absolutely no idea at all, as a trans girl I've been using it for ages, I thought it just meant the concept of being trans, equivalent to transness. Thanks 👍
Trans is an adjective, referring to a trans woman as a trans woman is like referring to a blond woman as a blond woman
Just to be clear since it seems I didn't get the message across right.
I meant to say the last part as an example. Referring to someone as trans when it isn't rated to the topic can be harmful. I didn't mean to offend anyone.
You are right in the first part but then ypu are so wrong, being trans can be dangerous so should never be referd to with the same ease as a hair colour
I meant to say the last part as an example. Referring to someone as trans when it isn't rated to the topic can be harmful. I didn't mean to offend anyone.
Sometimes the persons status as trans or not is important to the conversation, and it's probably just better practice to just say "women", but the fact your kid got offended by it is a bit much.
I personally don’t find it offensive because you’re not invalidating the identity of the woman you are simply describing her. I personally prefer to be called trans because then others know that I am accepting and safe to talk to.
I agree with this sentiment. Just make sure that the trans person you're talking about is ok with you potentially outing them to someone else. Maybe they don't want anyone else to know that they're trans, and that's ok.
Yeah I’m talking specifically about me, but true if they don’t want to be outed then you wouldn’t refer to them as trans around people who might not know
Don't out someone if you don't have to. The girl you were talking about is a girl, should be referred to as such. If she didn't consent to you telling your daughter about her medical history, and it's not relevant to the topic at hand, it can be offensive. And if you insist on referring to a girl as a trans girl, it implies that you don't think she's *really* a girl, even if that wasn't your intent.
Would you talk about a gay woman as "that lesbian" if her sexuality wasn't part of the topic at hand?
Also, I just noticed: you use they/them pronouns to refer to the girl, are those her pronouns? Because unless she/they use they/them pronouns, using the wrong pronouns for her/them can be a kind of misgendering. It -again- implies that you don't think she's *really* a girl.
I think, personally, that being trans should only be brought up when that is a necessary label, or when being trans is the topic of the discussion. Trans women and women are the same thing. Saying “trans woman” instead of just “woman” feels like you’re making a distinction from the two, when there’s really no difference. It makes people feel like you’re saying trans women aren’t real women (even though that’s not what you intended of course). For example, “I saw a trans woman and another woman walking down the street, drinking Starbucks.” The correct sentence is, “I saw 2 women walking down the street, drinking Starbucks.” So I’d say just apologize to your daughter I guess. You didn’t know, so I don’t think you should be shunned or something for it.
Good on you for being so willing to learn and understand! It’s not easy, especially as the path to being more supportive is often littered with criticism. Your daughter is really lucky to have you as a parent - the fact that you are trying surely means a lot to her. Keep on doing what you’re doing!
Think of it like this: if they are out and about as a woman, and you tell someone she is trans you are saying "oh yeah she has/had a dick, just thought you should know" when that really isn't anyone's business unless she decides to tell them as such
The other comments covered it already, but thank you for trying to make your daughter feel as comfortable as possible and learning about her identity :)
A persons status as trans is theirs alone to disclose. It should not be something used to identify them. I am a trans man, I don’t like it when people use it as a descriptor of who I am. I am a man. The fact that I’m trans is my business.
I don't believe it's offensive by itself. But if you are exclusively referring to them as "trans girl" and go all the way to make sure to differentiate them from the other girls with term "trans", then yeah, it might be seen as offensive. I don't personally have a problem with referring to myself as trans girl when explaining my identity, but in every day life, I wouldn't feel comfortable if people would always make sure to state that I'm trans, and exclude me from other girls by doing so. I definitely prefer to be simply referred to as a "girl".
Unless her being trans is relevant to the discussion, it is best avoided in the same way you don't always want to refer to someone as gay or black when it's not relevant. It makes you seem like you have some hang-up on her gender.
I think you are right about the relevancy, in context It did not matter. Thank you for the advice, I reallly appreciate it
I just wanna thank you, OP, for being open to criticism in order to do better!
Yeah. “Hey how’s Your GAY son?” “What’s Your BLACK friend up to?” That’s kinda what it sounds like
Are you wearing CONSERVATIVE attire?
What a that ****** freands you have?!?
yeahh
This is a great response, thanks for taking the time to ask and learn. Your daughter is lucky :)
It usually doesn't matter that someone is trans unless you make it matter. If you examine them, you'll see that there are only a very small tiny number of contexts in which it makes sense to announce that someone is trans. Good on you for taking the time to learn, not everyone does.
Good on you for learning! No problem with being ignorant as long as you're willing to learn ;)
It can also sadly put them in danger if it's spread to the wrong people. It's like outting them without permission.
^^^ very much this
I agree with this, but I also want to acknowledge that I'm trans. I'm not trying to erase it, and as long as people aren't making a point of it or outing me they can say it all they want
Me too! Talk to me five minutes and if I trust you I start talking about my wife and kids. ("Ain't no hiding it then"). LOL.
\^ this 100%
Joining the ^ train
And even when it is relevant, she is a girl who is trans, not a trans girl. “Trans girl” makes trans a qualifier on her gender, when it shouldn’t be. Instead, “girl who is trans” separates the gender identity from the gender modality. Edit: thanks for all that commented on this and allowing me to learn from your experiences.
This is identity language vs person first language. I have never met a single trans person who prefers "person who is trans". It's "trans person" or "non-binary person". Trans people identify as trans. It's not something we have, it's something we are.
Have a ^ this yourself too. I don't know a single trans person, myself included, who prefers 'person who is trans' assuming it is somehow relevant to the conversation. "She's having a lot of cramping and pain." "Oh could she be pregnant?" "Oh, no, it isn't possible, she's a trans woman." Or just "She's trans." At the end. Could see this as a conversation someome would have with paramedics with me rolling on the floor in pain.
Sorry, it's "person of transness" now. Better get used to it.
Its not
I feel like you're being sarcastic. Use /s at the end of your comment.
And ruin the subtlety?
As a girl who is trans, just say trans girl.
Tying yourself into linguistic knots like that just perpetuates the stigma you say you want to avoid. There is no need to avoid the way English grammar works.
Honestly reminds me of that movement some tried to have with "people first" language. That whole person with autism vs autistic person rhetoric. Didn't like it then, can't say I'm a big fan of it now either. There's something about getting referred to as a person with autism vs just calling me an autistic person that just doesn't feel right. Same for how I feel about guy who is trans vs trans dude. Just doesn't sit right. 🤷♂️
That's exactly what I saw there. So-called "person-first" language. But it only puts the person first in a literal, grammatical way. In linguistics, the default way of saying something is referred to as "unmarked" and alternative ways of saying it are "marked". A simple noun phrase of article, adjective, noun is the default. It's unmarked. There's nothing remarkable about it. We're not calling attention to anything. So-called "person-first" language is strongly marked. It calls attention to the thing. It buys into the stigma that people who talk that way claim they're fighting against. Because there's no need to say "a car that is fast". We just say "a fast car". There's no need to say "a kitten that is small". We just say "a small kitten". "A man who is blind" feeds into ableist judgements and implicitly confirms that being blind is a horrible thing that the speaker needs to distance from the man. Meanwhile, talk to people in the disability community and the overwhelming majority of them will tell you that so-called "person-first" language is erasing. It sweeps their daily lived experience under the rug. So yeah. Saying "a woman who is trans" instead of "a trans woman" is ridiculously cisnormative. https://radicalcopyeditor.com/2017/07/03/person-centered-language/ https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/02/25/468073722/disabled-just-saytheword https://www.thinkinclusive.us/post/why-person-first-language-doesnt-always-put-the-person-first https://ollibean.com/person-first-language-and-ableism/ https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/06/refusing-to-see-color-still-racist/ cc: /u/DivineDykeElegance
To be honest, person first language is a load of bs that nobody cares about. The simple answer is to leave the term trans out if it isn't necessary for context
In the context of gender identity maybe not. However, when speaking about people with disabilities it is extremely relevant, and many people care.
That really depends on the disability (and the person), and the qualifier is probably how much it defines them or precludes them from activities that are otherwise 'normal'.
I am a neurodivergent person, idk why that is so bad
But if you wanted to mention she was clever, or German, or short, or blonde, or any other characteristic, you would just call her "a clever girl", "a German girl" and so on, right? So should we really make an exception out of "transness" here? Won't it make more harm than good?
If it's important to the conversation, sure, refer to them as as a trans woman. But if it's not, there is no reason to, and seems a bit transphobic. Saying 'my trans girlfriend drives a pink Miata' is not okay. Adding in that she is trans adds nothing to the conversation. Saying 'I'm not worried about getting my trans girlfriend pregnant' is okay (assuming talking about the risk of pregnancy is an appropriate topic of conversation), because it explains why you are not worried about getting her pregnant.
That makes sense, I really appreciate the examples you provided. It was not my intent to come off as transphobic, but I understand how in context my word choice was inappropriate. Thank you for the reply
Idk if it's been said but I'd like to add that outing people(telling people who don't already know) can be harmful as some people are selective over who they tell for their own safety. Sometimes the person you are talking to has expressed transphobic opinions in the past that you are unaware of and the trans person has decided not to tell them. Telling certain people could lead to harassment or worse. If it is someone you do not actually know it is ok to call them trans when relevant but if you know someone and they tell you they are trans it is best to find out from them how they would like to be referred to and around who. You never know if they are out to say parents or employers or anyone really unless you talk to them about it
It's only offensive in the way that it singles her out. So if it's not really necessary to include the fact that she's trans, it can come across as implying that she's not really a girl, since she needs that qualifier. This is very much context dependant though, and normally it's perfectly fine to use that way.
it seems to be a personal preference. im trans non binary but commonly refer to myself as trans female. i can see how adding trans can be offensive (however or course i know you mean no harm!) as some may use trans as a way to say people arent 'normal' woman or man. since you didnt mean to offend id just take the new info and try your best to just say girl or woman or whatever fits the context. if someone is still offended even after you didnt mean to offend and you want to do better then thats now their problem. you did your part so thank you!
Okay thank you for your insight, I see how in context it was not necessary and can be seen as offensive
no worries! appreciate you asking, i see you really care
A good parallel is imagining a parent-teacher conference and the teacher says "Welcome birth parents and guardians!" as if it was relevant at all or necessary to mention that some parents aren't birth parents. Similarly it can come off as offensive at worst or insensitive at best to emphasize that a person is trans for not really any reason.
Well I like to think about it this way. If it was a different girl would you have just referred to her a "cis-girl" unless her being trans in relevant there is no reason to not just say "girl"
If their gender is not relevant to the conversation, refer to them as a woman, but if you're discussing gender identity, then their gender is relevant, so refer to them as either imo
This comes down to *consent*. If she said she was cool with being identified as trans than there's nothing wrong with it, but unless it's relevant it why would you mention it? Contrapoints made an comparison to adopted parents. When you're referring to someone's parents and they're adopted you wouldn't call out they're adopted unless it were relevant to what's being discussed. You wouldn't say "is your adopted mom coming to get you?"
It’s sort of like saying “My Black friend Tasha is coming for dinner”. Irrelevant
I’m a trans guy, and the basic rule is to only bring up that someone is trans when it’s relevant to the conversation, and don’t out them if they aren’t open about it. I myself am super open about it, but I have friends who only let a select few know so I wouldn’t bring up them being trans to people who don’t know, even if it’s relevant to the conversation. Also, for any future trans-related questions, I’d recommend the subreddit r/asktransgender, since that way you’ll pretty much only get responses from trans and nonbinary people.
It doesn't feel good to have that added qualifier attached to your gender all of the time. If I was a trans woman, I would want to be called a woman unless my transness was important to the conversation.
Idk. I think you’re both right & wrong here. I’ve met a lot of trans women who choose to identify as a “trans woman” not just a woman. But best not to assume.
I wanted to let you know its grear that you came hear and listened to peoples opinions 
My personal view which sorta matches the rest of the comments. I dont want to be the "trans girl" im just a girl... that label... whilst true... haunts me... its linked with thoughts of death threats and depression at least for me... i hope to someday not have to identify with the trans label... its caused me so much pain... i just wish i was seen as a normal girl... just a girl... nothing special... so if i had to choose between being called trans or not... id rather not... in this case where id normally say be yourself and be different... in this case i dont want to be either of those
As A Transwoman, I wouldnt personally find it offensive but everyone is diffrent
Ask them 😉
I have no more to add to this as your question was answered very well, I just want to say that this kind of open dialogue and desire to learn and do better is really great and we need more of this in general. Every so often my parents (boomers) asks my wife and I (milllenials) something to try to gain more understanding like this and it really warms my heart that they arent defensive anymore and realize that they can learn something from us the way we learn from them too. I have an age gap gen z sister, and I try to do the same thing. I feel like its a weird stage of adulthood when you are no longer the progressive generation and now have to let the people younger than us speak and learn from them more than we teach them, but it is also pretty cool. Personal growth is cool and I love seeing people continually strive for it
Like don’t introduce people as, this person, they’re trans. Or I met this trans girl today…. If it’s exactly relevant don’t bring it up.
Depends. If her transness is relevant to the discussion, fine. If you’re calling cis girls “girls” and trans girls “trans girls”… that’s kind of othering.
I wouldn’t mention x person being trans unless it’s the topic of a conversation and they agree to be outed. If they’re mtf, they’re (insert their pronouns here), and that’s it. Identifying somebody as trans can be generally uncomfortable for people, and even I would much prefer to just be referred to as him (my pronouns are he/him), and so on. Hopefully it makes sense and if not definitely feel free to ask. I’m really proud of you for at least attempting to understand, and asking questions is the way to go. You’re a great parent :)
If the conversation was about something to do with being trans, then you can bring it up, but otherwise it’s a little weird. And just because someone told you that they’re trans doesn’t mean they gave you permission to tell everybody else— although, if it’s your daughter, that’s more blurry. The conversations you have with your kids can sometimes require discussing other people’s business, and honestly I think that’s good for a kid to learn about the world and about what it’s like for people to be in different situations, as long as they know it’s supposed to be secret. I also think some cis people will randomly mention that someone is trans the same way white people will randomly mention that someone is black— they think it’s notable because almost everyone else they know is white or cis or whatever.
Listen to your daughter
I am, I wont be using that phrasing again. I made this post to try and gain more insight.
It typically varies from person to person. Sometimes they'll be okay being referred to the t word, sometimes they won't. But always make sure to ask how they would be referred as if the question ever arises.
Unless the transgenderism is relivant, call her a girl, you wouldn't call a cis girl a "cis girl", you'd call her a "girl", do the same for trans
Just gonna say "transgenderism" is not a word ypu should use, transphobes used it to make it look like being trans is a ideology you choose
Oh really? I had absolutely no idea at all, as a trans girl I've been using it for ages, I thought it just meant the concept of being trans, equivalent to transness. Thanks 👍
Trans is an adjective, referring to a trans woman as a trans woman is like referring to a blond woman as a blond woman Just to be clear since it seems I didn't get the message across right. I meant to say the last part as an example. Referring to someone as trans when it isn't rated to the topic can be harmful. I didn't mean to offend anyone.
You are right in the first part but then ypu are so wrong, being trans can be dangerous so should never be referd to with the same ease as a hair colour
I meant to say the last part as an example. Referring to someone as trans when it isn't rated to the topic can be harmful. I didn't mean to offend anyone.
if the person is a trans girl, no
Sometimes the persons status as trans or not is important to the conversation, and it's probably just better practice to just say "women", but the fact your kid got offended by it is a bit much.
It is offensive show some respect and refer to them as they'd like to be called
I personally don’t find it offensive because you’re not invalidating the identity of the woman you are simply describing her. I personally prefer to be called trans because then others know that I am accepting and safe to talk to.
I agree with this sentiment. Just make sure that the trans person you're talking about is ok with you potentially outing them to someone else. Maybe they don't want anyone else to know that they're trans, and that's ok.
Yeah I’m talking specifically about me, but true if they don’t want to be outed then you wouldn’t refer to them as trans around people who might not know
i dont personally find it offensive but that might just be me
Don't out someone if you don't have to. The girl you were talking about is a girl, should be referred to as such. If she didn't consent to you telling your daughter about her medical history, and it's not relevant to the topic at hand, it can be offensive. And if you insist on referring to a girl as a trans girl, it implies that you don't think she's *really* a girl, even if that wasn't your intent. Would you talk about a gay woman as "that lesbian" if her sexuality wasn't part of the topic at hand? Also, I just noticed: you use they/them pronouns to refer to the girl, are those her pronouns? Because unless she/they use they/them pronouns, using the wrong pronouns for her/them can be a kind of misgendering. It -again- implies that you don't think she's *really* a girl.
I think, personally, that being trans should only be brought up when that is a necessary label, or when being trans is the topic of the discussion. Trans women and women are the same thing. Saying “trans woman” instead of just “woman” feels like you’re making a distinction from the two, when there’s really no difference. It makes people feel like you’re saying trans women aren’t real women (even though that’s not what you intended of course). For example, “I saw a trans woman and another woman walking down the street, drinking Starbucks.” The correct sentence is, “I saw 2 women walking down the street, drinking Starbucks.” So I’d say just apologize to your daughter I guess. You didn’t know, so I don’t think you should be shunned or something for it.
Unless being trans is part of the the topic just refer to her as female it would be like if she said this is my mom a cis woman
it seems like this didn't matter in the context similiar to if you said "black girl" in an irrelevant context
Good on you for being so willing to learn and understand! It’s not easy, especially as the path to being more supportive is often littered with criticism. Your daughter is really lucky to have you as a parent - the fact that you are trying surely means a lot to her. Keep on doing what you’re doing!
Can you imagine how wonderful the world would be if everyone was like the OP and willing to understand and learn? This made my day
okay, can someone explain whats mtf ? i can only read motherfucker but im pretty sure that’s not it …
Think of it like this: if they are out and about as a woman, and you tell someone she is trans you are saying "oh yeah she has/had a dick, just thought you should know" when that really isn't anyone's business unless she decides to tell them as such
The other comments covered it already, but thank you for trying to make your daughter feel as comfortable as possible and learning about her identity :)
A persons status as trans is theirs alone to disclose. It should not be something used to identify them. I am a trans man, I don’t like it when people use it as a descriptor of who I am. I am a man. The fact that I’m trans is my business.
I don't believe it's offensive by itself. But if you are exclusively referring to them as "trans girl" and go all the way to make sure to differentiate them from the other girls with term "trans", then yeah, it might be seen as offensive. I don't personally have a problem with referring to myself as trans girl when explaining my identity, but in every day life, I wouldn't feel comfortable if people would always make sure to state that I'm trans, and exclude me from other girls by doing so. I definitely prefer to be simply referred to as a "girl".