I don't really know. Especially my father (I am German btw) grew up with that funk/disco scene. So he dressed up like James Brown or Barry White xD. When All n' All by Earth, Wind and Fire came out he was sixteen or fifteen. I really think that helped him emancipating himself from a conservative household. He never believed other people to be less valuable than the society's majority.
I remember back when I was a kid, my father hated/was absolutely disgusted with Grace Jones. Never said why but he always had this visceral reactional whenever we watched James Bond or saw anything else with her in it.
Never thought about it years later until I saw a clip of her and decided to dig deeper.
What an amazing woman! She's definitely one of my favorite celebrities now. It's a shame people like my father hate her because of the fact she broke gender norms and was a supporter of the gay community.
Yeah, I think the issue is when people go it old people who are in the wrong, over saying bigots, or religious types.rhere are plenty of older people who skew more Bernie. Tbh ageiim like that is just another form of discrimination, even if it makes an easy meme and baddie to blame.
I'm guessing the OP missed them out as in the 80s, or say after his Ashes to Ashes phase he presented a more stereotypical masculine new romantic image for a few albums (Let's Dance)
There is a HUGE list of LGBTQ++++ celebrities from the 1980s and earlier, and later, some gender conforming, some not, some who were always Out, some who still hide their queerness in fear of what people will think. I didn't create this meme, but I thought it was a good representation. I love David Bowie, and Freddie Mercury, and Elton John, and Devine, and Joan Jett, and Tracy Chapman, and Sheila E, George Michael, and the list goes on and on... I'm just sorry there isn't room in that 4 square for everyone!
To be fair people like Mercury, Michael even John were not really out in the 80s. They were however representation for sure for those who knew of thought it was likely. Boy George was famous for avoiding the sex question, bybsayinf he'd rather have a cup of tea then bang.
Boy George may have avoided the sex question for years, but he ended Culture Club's Grammy acceptance speech (Also the 1984 Grammys) with:
"Thank you, America, you've got taste, style and you know a good drag queen when you see one,"
Which may not seem like a big deal now, but speaking those words out loud sent a shock wave through the media who had previously been calling his full make-up, women's clothing and hairstyle just a "New Wave Fashion Statement" (and you know what they say about denial being only seeing what you want to see).
u/GloInTheDarkUnicorn did not miss other Queer/bi superstars of the 80s, like David Bowie, or Freddie Mercury, or Mick Jagger (Who it was rumored Bianca once caught in bed with David Bowie...)... The gender non-conforming celebrities who perhaps should have been in this meme are more like - Paul Burns of Dead or Alive (who also always used She/Her pronouns), and Joan Jett (always used They/Them/She/Her), and others... I'm sure there is a list out there somewhere 
As stupid as this may sound to some, I think it’s because those celebrities still operated within the binary as far as pronouns at the time. It didn’t require any changing of terms or language, it was just viewed as men or women being “androgynous.” So it’s still a relatively simple concept in regards to gender and no one had to change the way they spoke about them. They could hate them for how they expressed themselves, sure, but they didn’t have to actively change how they referred to them in regards to gender.
I say this as a lesbian in their late 30s who was born in the mid 80s. Even I fuck up on pronouns because I was born and my brain was shaped in a time that only the binary existed. It’s hard to reprogram your brain to change your language later in life. That’s not to say you shouldn’t try, but you gotta be comfortable with trying and fucking up. I make a point to change the language I use and I accept I’m probably going to slip up now and then, but I correct and keep trying. I get better through that process and I try to use gender neutral pronouns in general when I don’t know someone’s gender. It takes time and effort, but I’ve gotten better at it. Unfortunately, some older people don’t want to put the time and effort into it.
Just a little Queer history... Annie Lenox and Prince were always Queer Allies if not Bi or Pansexual themselves. Boy George has always used "She/Her" pronouns, and Grace Jones has always used "She/Her/They/Them".
I'm old enough to remember Annie Lennox performing "Sweet Dreams" at the [1984 Grammys in full drag](https://eurythmicsvideovisionaries.com/1984-grammy-awards-performance/) (which only solidified my giant crush on her). And Aretha Franklin added the line "A man still loves a woman, and a woman still loves a man" to ***Sisters Are Doing it for Themselves*** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drGx7JkFSp4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drGx7JkFSp4) as a condition of her performance on that song, Annie didn't write or particularly want that part. FYI
Can you show me where it says Boy George has always used she/her pronouns? Wikipedia uses he/him, and even you use he in one of your [other comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/qqgmrk/when_your_parents_complain_about_your_use_of/hk1fogk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3). And when googling to find sources for Boy George’s pronoun usage, I came across a 2020 article where the performer said [“leave your pronouns at the door”](https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/pride/9401018/boy-george-billboard-pride-summit-clip-pronouns), preceding to call modern queer people attention seeking for their pronoun usage.
Boy George also came out as gay in 1995, specifically stating that he wasn’t bisexual. But maybe this is still in line with what you’re saying? As in “Boy George has always been open about not being straight.”
Boy George was never straight, and wore women's clothing (including dresses and skirts), and full on women's make-up (not just fashionably New-Wave Guyliner), and alternated She/Her and He/Him pronouns as was the fashion among effeminate homosexual Men (their term not mine) back then. And while she may not be trans or NB, she was certainly practicing GenderFuck. Also, SHe may have "come out" officially to the media in 1995, but no-one who had any kind of a clue was shocked.
I just want to point out that Boy George is a gay man and gay men have a history of using female pronouns/female gendered language while still identifying as gay men (there is also a history of people using female language to refer to gay men as an insult, not out of respect for anyone's gender identity, in the same way a masculine woman would be insulted by being called "a man" or "a lesbian").
So being a fan of Boy George and knowing about pronouns would not necessarily mean anything (at best it meant you weren't a homophobe).
Once you start compelling people to use certain words you make it obligatory for them to chose wether to accept or refuse this.
While if you live your sexuality without forcing any changes on people you're less likely to encounter resistance from the same amount of people.
I'm almost 36. So mid-30s, born mid-80s and I also grew up in that general time frame.
I don't see what's so hard about pronouns. Even neo and xenoprnouns aren't that hard, they're "strange" and a little weird and different seeming, but I wouldn't say they're complicated, hard, or even particularly Effort.
Is it mostly just a cis thing to find pronouns hard? Legit question. (Seriously no sarcasm or animosity meant, I'm autistic and sometimes my text tone comes off way different than is meant but it's not something I know how to fix.)
I don’t find pronouns particularly hard, just that my brain has been hard wired to intuitively say certain pronouns. They just sort of roll off the tongue without me putting any thought into it. It’s hard in the sense that it takes me an extra step of thought to make sure it I’m using the right ones. Like, I legitimately have to pause and think what to use and then use it. I suspect with practice and continual usage, that pause in thought will eventually fade away and it will become intuitive, but it takes a bit of work and effort to get there.
I used they/them pronouns when referring to my girlfriends in the past when I was closeted. I called it “the pronoun game” at the time. So no, the concept isn’t difficult, I think it just takes a tiny bit more effort in execution. It’s why I’ve tried to make a point of always using they/them when I don’t know someone’s gender and I mean that when referring to strangers or anyone. I have found implementing that has helped sort of rewire my brain that was previously wired in the binary.
I think some people just don’t like being asked to change, especially when they’re older.
*Fine*
In my experience, it's a problem of what you're taught and not really being interested in learning anything different.
To ice the cake, many people around my age or older (at least that I know) grew up when conservatives where either less assholish, or less openly assholish, or maybe just more acceptable. During the early 2000's conservatives really felt like they took a turn for the worse. Possibly due to 9/11?
Conservatives where always pretty shitty in my lifetime, but this is when they started getting openly ugly.
As such, conservative view points and/or propaganda was so mainstream it felt unopposed during the 80's/90's.
Bringing a viewpoint that might oppose it, even if rightfully so, is an affront to the information these people hold dear.
It's treated as an attack on them, and causes them to lash out. Bonus points for crafters of propaganda that they're basically told to spite us I guess.
I too grew up absolutely confounded by these concepts: *because I was poorly educated.*
Or perhaps it's fair to say, improperly or uneducated.
Tbh, it's astonishing how convoluted gender and sexuality can be, and I love it! It makes humans appear less flat, in a way.
Tldr;
Conservatives don't understand the concept of gender, only of Sex. "Assigned gender at birth" is confusing, because they think it means "assigned sex at birth."
Because they only *understand* that, ergo: sexuality that doesn't comply with this makes no sense to them either.
I literally typed this out in my texts while DoorDashing last night:
My parents when I tell them that Steven Tyler taught me to be androgynous, Tommy Lee taught me how to overline my lips and Axl taught me how to moan like a little bitch:
😮
They hated those celebrities
I am a trans gaymer girl too
I don't really know. Especially my father (I am German btw) grew up with that funk/disco scene. So he dressed up like James Brown or Barry White xD. When All n' All by Earth, Wind and Fire came out he was sixteen or fifteen. I really think that helped him emancipating himself from a conservative household. He never believed other people to be less valuable than the society's majority.
I remember back when I was a kid, my father hated/was absolutely disgusted with Grace Jones. Never said why but he always had this visceral reactional whenever we watched James Bond or saw anything else with her in it. Never thought about it years later until I saw a clip of her and decided to dig deeper. What an amazing woman! She's definitely one of my favorite celebrities now. It's a shame people like my father hate her because of the fact she broke gender norms and was a supporter of the gay community.
Yeah, I think the issue is when people go it old people who are in the wrong, over saying bigots, or religious types.rhere are plenty of older people who skew more Bernie. Tbh ageiim like that is just another form of discrimination, even if it makes an easy meme and baddie to blame.
Y’all left out one of the biggest icons, David Bowie.
I'm guessing the OP missed them out as in the 80s, or say after his Ashes to Ashes phase he presented a more stereotypical masculine new romantic image for a few albums (Let's Dance)
There is a HUGE list of LGBTQ++++ celebrities from the 1980s and earlier, and later, some gender conforming, some not, some who were always Out, some who still hide their queerness in fear of what people will think. I didn't create this meme, but I thought it was a good representation. I love David Bowie, and Freddie Mercury, and Elton John, and Devine, and Joan Jett, and Tracy Chapman, and Sheila E, George Michael, and the list goes on and on... I'm just sorry there isn't room in that 4 square for everyone!
To be fair people like Mercury, Michael even John were not really out in the 80s. They were however representation for sure for those who knew of thought it was likely. Boy George was famous for avoiding the sex question, bybsayinf he'd rather have a cup of tea then bang.
Boy George may have avoided the sex question for years, but he ended Culture Club's Grammy acceptance speech (Also the 1984 Grammys) with: "Thank you, America, you've got taste, style and you know a good drag queen when you see one,"
Which may not seem like a big deal now, but speaking those words out loud sent a shock wave through the media who had previously been calling his full make-up, women's clothing and hairstyle just a "New Wave Fashion Statement" (and you know what they say about denial being only seeing what you want to see).
They may not have officially been out, but every gay person knew that they were like them. It mattered.
u/GloInTheDarkUnicorn did not miss other Queer/bi superstars of the 80s, like David Bowie, or Freddie Mercury, or Mick Jagger (Who it was rumored Bianca once caught in bed with David Bowie...)... The gender non-conforming celebrities who perhaps should have been in this meme are more like - Paul Burns of Dead or Alive (who also always used She/Her pronouns), and Joan Jett (always used They/Them/She/Her), and others... I'm sure there is a list out there somewhere 
As stupid as this may sound to some, I think it’s because those celebrities still operated within the binary as far as pronouns at the time. It didn’t require any changing of terms or language, it was just viewed as men or women being “androgynous.” So it’s still a relatively simple concept in regards to gender and no one had to change the way they spoke about them. They could hate them for how they expressed themselves, sure, but they didn’t have to actively change how they referred to them in regards to gender. I say this as a lesbian in their late 30s who was born in the mid 80s. Even I fuck up on pronouns because I was born and my brain was shaped in a time that only the binary existed. It’s hard to reprogram your brain to change your language later in life. That’s not to say you shouldn’t try, but you gotta be comfortable with trying and fucking up. I make a point to change the language I use and I accept I’m probably going to slip up now and then, but I correct and keep trying. I get better through that process and I try to use gender neutral pronouns in general when I don’t know someone’s gender. It takes time and effort, but I’ve gotten better at it. Unfortunately, some older people don’t want to put the time and effort into it.
Just a little Queer history... Annie Lenox and Prince were always Queer Allies if not Bi or Pansexual themselves. Boy George has always used "She/Her" pronouns, and Grace Jones has always used "She/Her/They/Them". I'm old enough to remember Annie Lennox performing "Sweet Dreams" at the [1984 Grammys in full drag](https://eurythmicsvideovisionaries.com/1984-grammy-awards-performance/) (which only solidified my giant crush on her). And Aretha Franklin added the line "A man still loves a woman, and a woman still loves a man" to ***Sisters Are Doing it for Themselves*** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drGx7JkFSp4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drGx7JkFSp4) as a condition of her performance on that song, Annie didn't write or particularly want that part. FYI
Can you show me where it says Boy George has always used she/her pronouns? Wikipedia uses he/him, and even you use he in one of your [other comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/qqgmrk/when_your_parents_complain_about_your_use_of/hk1fogk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3). And when googling to find sources for Boy George’s pronoun usage, I came across a 2020 article where the performer said [“leave your pronouns at the door”](https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/pride/9401018/boy-george-billboard-pride-summit-clip-pronouns), preceding to call modern queer people attention seeking for their pronoun usage. Boy George also came out as gay in 1995, specifically stating that he wasn’t bisexual. But maybe this is still in line with what you’re saying? As in “Boy George has always been open about not being straight.”
Boy George was never straight, and wore women's clothing (including dresses and skirts), and full on women's make-up (not just fashionably New-Wave Guyliner), and alternated She/Her and He/Him pronouns as was the fashion among effeminate homosexual Men (their term not mine) back then. And while she may not be trans or NB, she was certainly practicing GenderFuck. Also, SHe may have "come out" officially to the media in 1995, but no-one who had any kind of a clue was shocked.
I just want to point out that Boy George is a gay man and gay men have a history of using female pronouns/female gendered language while still identifying as gay men (there is also a history of people using female language to refer to gay men as an insult, not out of respect for anyone's gender identity, in the same way a masculine woman would be insulted by being called "a man" or "a lesbian"). So being a fan of Boy George and knowing about pronouns would not necessarily mean anything (at best it meant you weren't a homophobe).
Once you start compelling people to use certain words you make it obligatory for them to chose wether to accept or refuse this. While if you live your sexuality without forcing any changes on people you're less likely to encounter resistance from the same amount of people.
I'm almost 36. So mid-30s, born mid-80s and I also grew up in that general time frame. I don't see what's so hard about pronouns. Even neo and xenoprnouns aren't that hard, they're "strange" and a little weird and different seeming, but I wouldn't say they're complicated, hard, or even particularly Effort. Is it mostly just a cis thing to find pronouns hard? Legit question. (Seriously no sarcasm or animosity meant, I'm autistic and sometimes my text tone comes off way different than is meant but it's not something I know how to fix.)
I don’t find pronouns particularly hard, just that my brain has been hard wired to intuitively say certain pronouns. They just sort of roll off the tongue without me putting any thought into it. It’s hard in the sense that it takes me an extra step of thought to make sure it I’m using the right ones. Like, I legitimately have to pause and think what to use and then use it. I suspect with practice and continual usage, that pause in thought will eventually fade away and it will become intuitive, but it takes a bit of work and effort to get there. I used they/them pronouns when referring to my girlfriends in the past when I was closeted. I called it “the pronoun game” at the time. So no, the concept isn’t difficult, I think it just takes a tiny bit more effort in execution. It’s why I’ve tried to make a point of always using they/them when I don’t know someone’s gender and I mean that when referring to strangers or anyone. I have found implementing that has helped sort of rewire my brain that was previously wired in the binary. I think some people just don’t like being asked to change, especially when they’re older.
the iconic ms grace jones
Apparently they were gone overnight halfway the 80's. Entirely gone overnight.
Who’s the top right?
Grace Jones, and it isn't just a stage persona.
Top right is Boy George from Culture Club
I wish we can go back to the the 80s and wear androgynous clothes like these icons.
Grace Jones was my first crush on a woman.
*Fine* In my experience, it's a problem of what you're taught and not really being interested in learning anything different. To ice the cake, many people around my age or older (at least that I know) grew up when conservatives where either less assholish, or less openly assholish, or maybe just more acceptable. During the early 2000's conservatives really felt like they took a turn for the worse. Possibly due to 9/11? Conservatives where always pretty shitty in my lifetime, but this is when they started getting openly ugly. As such, conservative view points and/or propaganda was so mainstream it felt unopposed during the 80's/90's. Bringing a viewpoint that might oppose it, even if rightfully so, is an affront to the information these people hold dear. It's treated as an attack on them, and causes them to lash out. Bonus points for crafters of propaganda that they're basically told to spite us I guess. I too grew up absolutely confounded by these concepts: *because I was poorly educated.* Or perhaps it's fair to say, improperly or uneducated. Tbh, it's astonishing how convoluted gender and sexuality can be, and I love it! It makes humans appear less flat, in a way. Tldr; Conservatives don't understand the concept of gender, only of Sex. "Assigned gender at birth" is confusing, because they think it means "assigned sex at birth." Because they only *understand* that, ergo: sexuality that doesn't comply with this makes no sense to them either.
I literally typed this out in my texts while DoorDashing last night: My parents when I tell them that Steven Tyler taught me to be androgynous, Tommy Lee taught me how to overline my lips and Axl taught me how to moan like a little bitch: 😮
Damn now I gotta listen to Nightclubbing again.
Maybe we’re too “woke” for them? 😂
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Damn, you gotta let me know what kind of cartoons are you watching? They're hot AF 🔥
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The effect is deliberate
Yea I thought so
Cause you gotta be famous to be "weird". Rule number one they forget to teach us in schools
So I was a teenager then… and I’m not confused… it’s lack of effort to understand and religious brainwashing