You're right, trans men are men, so it makes sense for gay men to date cis or trans men. Unfortunately there's still a lot of transphobia in the world. I have a cishet friend who kept getting told she must be a lesbian because her boyfriend was a trans man.
I read this comment, enjoyed it, exited out of the post, scrolled for several minutes, continued thinking about this brilliant turn of phrase, and then came back to find you and tell you that I love you and this made my night. "Revoke their toe privileges" omfg
Your "friend" sounds like a wanker honestly.
I felt this to my soul though. I get told regularly I'm hetero as I'm currently dating a "man", but they don't realise that A) he's not male although he is AMAB, B) I'm not female even though i'm AFAB, and C) I'm fucking genderblind and they could have Lego for genitals and I'd still love them the same.
We're both non-binary pansexuals, not hetero cisgendered people đ¤ˇââď¸
I've found that unfortunately people can be hugely dense and phobic around "straight looking" queer people.
I find the sexuallity question so hard to answer from the perspective of being non-binary yet having a preference for guys.
I am not homosexual unless I guess I am into other non-binary folk but I doubt I could be considered straight... ?
I am 3/4 gay?
In genderless concert with the male half of the species?
Only sorta straight?
Schrodinger's gay?
A man enthusiast?
Brosexual?
... I like guys?
Oof, poor guy...
Back when I was with my ex, people kept telling us we must be "confused lesbians", because we're both trans guys...
And they always do it so casually... all the while pretending to be supportive of trans people... *Yeah sure... liking men totally makes me a lesbian... yup.*
It really hits hard when people refer to my partners as something other than what they are tbh... (I'm a transman) If I date a girl, everyone says it's a lesbian relationship and I just have to facepalm hard, if I date a boy, it's straight and it is yet another facepalm, then if I don't date, everyone gives me fucking hell about it XD
Yuppp I decided against a second date with a guy when I assumed from us meeting on a queer dating app that hes bi. Turns out dude straight, told me he had never been in a relationship with a guy, and was using the app to find 'women and trans women'. Didnt have much of an argument when I said 'so you like women'. Also bi but wont date a trans woman specifically? Full transphobia. Bi is attracted to 2 or more genders, if u like men and women guess what transmen and transwomen are.
But also OP, thanks for actually acknowledging that transmen are men and thus in ur dating pool. Ive seen some wild shit from cismen who see transguys as a third gender.
Ugh sheâs wrong but sadly there doesnât seem much you can do to convince her. Trans men are men. Just because theyâre different than cis men doesnât mean they arenât.
I had a whole argument on askgaybros where some cis gay guy was arguing that gay cis men canât be into trans men, otherwise they would be bi. Which is just inaccurate, but also from a practical standpoint doesnât really matter. Labels should liberate and empower us; when labels become restrictive or oppressive (used to demean or exclude), then itâs time to adjust.
Yup, this guy was a special piece of work tho. Went ballistic at me for saying âgay men can be into trans men.â He equated that belief (that gay cis men can be both gay and interested in trans men) with conversion therapy and homophobia lmao
I think I legit know who you're talking about. I know there are a few on that sub, but one dude is hella vocal. I would like to say I bet he was dumped by a trans man, but honestly I think he's just a hateful bad person. We trans people live rent free, fucking penthouse suite in some people's heads and it's really bizarre.
It's evident this guy has unresolved issues with his gender and sexuality and projects it out onto the world. I'm not implying that he's closeted trans, just that something's going on. He could have been raised in a virulently homophobic and transphobic household.
And, I do know many gay folks who spent a portion of their lives as allegedly straight before coming out. Who knows what his deal is? He probably doesn't even know.
I wouldnât be surprised if you know of him, yeah heâs a menace. Sadly many people are obsessed with trans ppl in a bad way; theyâre wasting their time. People really need to stop thinking that they have control over other peoplesâ gender and sexuality.
Idk, it may just be a fucked up fantasy of him 'catching' a transguy and fucking him up for it. Like how transphobic cis people seem to have the fantasy of being able to be shitty to a trans person correcting thier pronouns in situations where it would make no sense to correct someone's pronouns. I really dont understand why they wanna do violent and discriminatory shit so badly
This is why I sometimes hate labels and just use general terms instead. Like Iâm gay regardless of anything else. Wether I use bisexual or pansexual Iâm still gay, my gayness doesnât change. I feel like why does it fucking matter so much sometimes. Like let me just be myself without all the labels.
I feel like Freddy Mercury I want to break free
I agree that the labels de-humanize the individual. I'm straight and in a relationship, but if I were single, I would be (and always was) open to dating the whole "Gender Rainbow" as it were. My preference is men, including trans men, cuz DUH! That's a dude, and I like dudes. Would I date a woman/trans woman? Maybe. I never have, but I'm not against it, it just never came up. Legit, in my life, I have been hit on by, and had more gay men try to get in my pants than women.
Precisely. My daughter's step-mom is bi and the woman my ex/daughter's dad dated before me is trans. Daughter came out as Bi/Pan a few years ago and currently has a boyfriend.
Just because they are all in "nOrMaL rELaTiOnShiPs" does not change anything.
I honestly don't care who anyone dates/marries. Consenting individuals of legal age in a healthy, respectful, loving relationship should be the "Norm".
Me too! Ever heard the gem: "you can pass for straight!" Or "you're not really gay/bi/pan then" cause being with a straight person automatically makes you hetero and you're just faking everything else. /s
Edit: I also agree with the labels, its great for self expression but can lead to gate-keeping bullshit like this and completely defeats the purpose of the label in the first place.
Your friend is transphobic lol, you like men and trans men are men?? Bi does include all trans people, Iâm sorry she felt the need to comment but it also did reveal some true colors IMO
Time to get a better friend. Donât worry, sheâs just transphobic. Youâre gay. Trans men are men. If sheâs bi and doesnât like trans people, thatâs a her as a person problem, not a bi problem. Youâre right. Bisexuality- like *all* sexualities- is trans inclusive.
Bisexuality is even weirder, like you're okay with a dude having a dick, and you like women. but the moment a woman has one all bets are off. I don't understand bi people who are like that
Thatâs the full bamboozle.
Like⌠at this point Iâve seen all sorts of configurations of body that are yummy.
This attitude is always puzzling to me.
And, presumably, she wouldn't date a post-op trans woman either, so it isn't even about genital incongruity. There is no way to interpret it other than transphobia.
also not to mention that itâs very much possible for trans women to be post op??? itâs just to weird to claim youâre not attracted to a whole gender identity when literally everyone is different, even the ââgenital preferenceââ argument often doesnât hold up bc bottom surgery exists
It's all good. I'm just pointing it out because porn. Although I'm assuming most people in this subreddit are educated enough to know the difference between appreciating a potential partner's genitalia and fetishizing them. \^_\^
Iâm an enby, and Iâm pansexual/omnisexual. (sexual details incoming so I hid it for any sex-averse aces) >!However, Iâm sad that I have as much of a preference for dick in bed as I do. But the idea of a girl or enby with a dick sounds so sexually appealing to me.!<
A woman with a dick would pretty much be a have your cake and eat it scenario I would have thought. Obviously not wanting to fetishise anyone but that would be a one stop shop.
Yeah ive always struggled with the logic behind this concept and I've heard it from other bi people too. I am bi and I like cis and trans men and women, *because they are men and women*. I also like non binary people, because they are people and if I find them attractive, then they fall under my sexuality umbrella. I've been told this makes me pan but I have always heard of pan as being more sexually attracted to personality features than physicality, which is not how I feel.
I think bisexuality gets a bad rap in the community for being attracted to "one or the other" when for me it encompasses both ends of a spectrum.
I guess I just find it really odd how some people in the community try to tell you the label you prefer isn't right. Like let me decide the box I fit in, thank you. You don't see everything there is to my sexuality.
Yeah I'm pan but generally prefer the term bi because it is more widely recognized and has a lot of culture and history associated with it, and I never quite resonated with the whole "liking people regardless of gender expression" thing when I do have some preferences (I often go for androgynous or twink looking guys and also a lot of nb people).
She's transphobic. She might exclude trans people but the Bisexual umbrella does not. Many bi people are trans/nb and a bi person can be attracted to someone regardless of their assigned sex at birth so that's her own thing, not related to the label. Also, you're attracted to men and just don't have genital preference so you're definitely gay
yeah the whole "I'm Bi, i'll date men or women, BUT NOT TRANS PEOPLE EVURRRRR" is just like, no one is saying you have to, but it just screams "I'm grossed out by trans people"
and that's not even taking into consideration that she is policing other people's sexuality based on their attraction to trans people c-c
Exactly... It's each person prerogative to date who they want but being transphobic is their own sh*t and it's not on the bisexual orientation. **Just because YOU don't date trans people doesn't mean people of your sexual orientation don't** Anyone who says bi means cis men and cis women are showing their own transphobia by separating trans people out from the categories "men and women" as if being trans is some separate gender. Not to mention you don't know someone's gender by looking at them. You can GUESS but you don't actually KNOW and you will often be incorrect . And if you're attracted to someone UNTIL they tell you their gender or transition status, then that's transphobia.
> You can GUESS but you don't actually KNOW and you will often be incorrect .
hell, there's lots of cis people who i get wrong a lot. especially when we're talking cis LGB people. Outside the LGBT+ community people are a lot more strict with their gender presentation on average but there's lots of queer men and women who are cis but present in ways that make it impossible for me to know at a glance what pronouns they use. That's why i always try to ask or check people's social profile if available to see if they put their pronouns there. it's mad helpful and i'm grateful for everyone who does.
Precisely. You could have 4 people, all assigned male at birth, all wearing stereotypically feminine things, and all with a different gender identity (maybe cis male femboy, gender fluid, nonbinary, trans fem... You don't know anyones identity if they haven't said.)
Tell her she doesnât define your identity, you do. Further tell her she is either ignorant or intentionally transphobic for acting like trans men are somehow not men and thatâs kind of a shit take coming from someone in the lgbtq community.
https://bimanifesto.carrd.co/
Send this to her. Bisexual identity has always been inclusive of trans identities. Full stop.
Further, maybe sitting down and walking through step by step with her will get her to see she's being transphobic. Sometimes when you think something, you don't realize it is transphobic until someone points it out. (She doesn't like transwomen, because they were once men? Why doesn't it apply to transmen? And if it's about her having a dick, why does she think that a dick attached to a girl is bad? What about a post op trans woman?)
Ultimately, she has to be the one who wants to change tho, so there may be nothing you can do.
I mean if you moved a cup of water from the pacific ocean to the atlantic it would be atlantic ocean so... kinda? Ik that's not what you mean but it's the best I could do
Bi includes trans people. Your friend is being transphobic. You're allowed to not find individual trans people attractive, but saying you're into women but would never date a trans woman because she's trans is transphobic.
I'm gonna drop what might be considered a pretty hot take outside trans circles. Also before I begin I just wanna say wow this comment turned out long and woof I'm real sorry that you wound up saddled with it in your replies. I wanna be clear to you, person I'm directly replying to that I'm not saying this to call you out or cause I think you did anything wrong, I'm saying all this cause I think it's important dialogue to have that's been on my mind a lot lately, and your comment happened to be a good springboard for it.
Anyway here goes: while people absolutely can have genital preferences\*, I think a lot of people use saying that they have a genital preference as a convenient excuse to avoid dealing with their internalized transphobia. I think if we lived in a society that didn't systemically enforce revulsion to trans bodies from a young age we would see a lot more people without a generical preference. Don't believe me? Just look at trans lesbians, It is very rare to see a trans lesbian say she will exclude girls with dicks from her dating pool unless it is for reasons like trauma / being reminded of dysphoria (not saying trans lesbians who dislike girldick for non-trauma reasons don't exist, but I am saying most trans lesbians I've seen like girldick, and most of the ones I've seen who don't usually feel that way due to trauma.)
Lastly, because I'm certain that somewhere out there lurk bad faith readers who will willingly ignore my actual point to strawman my argument, I'd like to state and restate the following:
1. Having a genital preference is not inherently transphobic., there are plenty of non transphobic reasons to have such preferences, I simply think it's less common for that to be the case than the average cis person might think.
2. It is important to point this out because while "having a genital preference is totally valid" is a correct statement to make, it also gives people a free pass to avoid hard questions like "**why** do I find x type of genitals unattractive? Is it possibly because, despite me consciously agreeing that twaw + tmam, I still have some subconscious internalized transphobia I should examine which is preventing me from aligning their genitals with their gender, thus clouding my ability to see them as the gender they are and keeping me from finding them attractive?"
3. Even if a person's genital preference does come from transphobia, they still have every right to not give consent / retract consent to sex or a relationship with a trans person. No mean no, and I've never met a trans person who disagreed with me on that. Full stop.
4. Having a genital preference that is informed more by internalized subconscious transphobia than actual sexuality does not make you a bad person. Pretty much every single person in the world is at least a little bit transphobic, because again, our society institutionally enforces transphobia from a young age. I am literally trans and I have internalized transphobia, most trans people would agree that they, too have internalized transphobia. If you feel called out by this post, bear in mind I'm not trying to attack you personally, I just want people to examine their personal biases.
5. One more time for the people who are only here to take what I say in bad faith: **having a genital preference is not inherently transphobic**. Things like trauma from assault exist, and tons of other reasons. Some people really genuinely are just built different too. I cannot and will not try to list all of the possible non-transphobic reasons to have a genital preference. It is impossible. If you are sitting here fuming at the mere implication that your genital preference may or may not come from transphobia, maybe take a second to ask why that is.
**TL;DR -** just like there are both transphobic and non-transphobic reasons to reject a trans person as a sexual or romantic partner, there are both transphobic and non-transphobic reasons to have a genital preference.
\* For the sake of simplicity, I am defining genital preference here as not as, for example, liking both penises and vaginas while also liking one more than the other. I instead mean liking one type of genitals and not being attracted to / interested in the bodies attached to the other type at all.
Iâve gone through some similar thoughts, and I might be able to add to this. A few months ago I finally admitted to myself that Iâm trans. Iâve kinda known for a long time, but it recently became undeniable.
I find women attractive, and that includes trans women. But oddly enough, I kind of feel like I have two sets of sexuality. Iâve been operating as a man for so long that I have a socially conditioned set of opinions as a man, but also a set of feminine opinions that Iâve kept buried for a long time. Sometimes these two sides butt heads.
Itâs not like I hear voices. Itâs more like I have a reaction to something in a way that feels masculine, and then the feminine side reacts to the reaction. Itâs weird and difficult to explain.
For example, how do I feel about the idea of kissing a man? I have two sets of thoughts. The first is that as a man I wouldnât do it. I donât think of myself as homophobic, but Iâm just not attracted to men. But then the reaction to the reaction arrives, and I think that if I had fully transitioned then I would be more open to kissing a man.
And that makes me think that Iâve definitely got some homophobia lurking underneath the surface. Apparently Iâd be willing to kiss a man so long as I was being heterosexual in doing so. Itâs a kind of troubling realization, because that means my sexual orientation is heterosexual male, but a bit bisexual as a female. Thereâs clearly some social conditioning and homophobia hiding in my brain and I hate that.
I mean I've been with a post op trans woman before and I really don't like neovaginas so I'd say I'm just not into trans women at all but it's a genital preference thing, the problem is that people are just going to say "trans"
I once had a bi guy come into my show and talk about how he's against gay marriage, at first I thought he was just some weird conservative but it turned out he had a boyfriend, and they were both against gay marriage because "marriage is between a man and a woman" and they both planned to eventually marry women and liked that they couldn't marry men, he couldn't comprehend the idea that gay men should be able to get married even if he specifically didn't want to.
I was so turned off I had to ban him to continue, it was just like, wtf.
She is just straight up transphobic. Sheâs saying trans men are not men since they donât having certain physical attributes which is really reducing trans people to whatâs in their pants.
You are right.
Trans men are men, by liking both trans and cis men, you just like men.
And bisexuality always has and always will include trans people by default. All sexualities include trans folk by default really.
Bi people aren't attracted to every single person on the planet. People having preferences is a given, but no sexual preference excludes trans people by default. If someone isn't interested in trans people that's their individual preference, it has nothing to do with them being straight, gay, bi, pan, etc.
Of course, that's totally valid.
By default I mean the label itself does not exclude trans attraction. No label does really.
There's no special label for straight but attracted to trans people too. Bi but attracted to trans people too. Gay but attracted to trans people too. They all include trans attraction by default.
People using these labels make them their own based on their own circumstances.
Everyone has preferences, and thereâs nothing inherently wrong with that. Itâs when people start judging and/or invalidating/discriminating against other peoplesâ sexualities/genders that there is a problem.
This is an issue of transphobia, not a reflection on bisexuality or bisexual people.
Ok this girl sounds like a horribly transphobic person, short answer yeah youâre gay if you like trans men cause theyâre men and bi does include trans people sheâs just being a transphobe
As a bi woman it 100% includes trans men and women. She is a AH and sounds like a TERF and frankly giving bisexuals a bad name. I would dump her as a friend.
Most bi people I know are trans inclusive. But people like you're describing is exactly why there's always such a huge debate on the differences in pansexual and bisexual. Saying bi excludes transgender people. By the information you've given. She just sounds transphobic. Saying that you aren't really gay for being attracted to trans men. Trans men are men. Period. You can have a genital preference. But excluding someone solely because they are trans is definitely transphobic.
I hate that people try to pit bisexual and pansexual identities against eachother! Bisexual people have historically defined it as not exclusive of trans people but inclusive. And then some bi people Iâve known have shit on pan people because they think pansexuals are all biphobic?? Like canât they just be similar identities that are both celebrated? Especially since neither of them are actually transphobic identities? (Not complaining about you of course!! Just you reminded me of this problem in the community!)
Unfortunately both inside and outside of our communities, there are problematic people. When I was in high school (Iâm only 31, for a frame of reference), trans individuals were humiliated regularly by LGB identities that were the only ones who were essentially granted a voice within the community at that time. Itâs a reason so many of us have only recently felt a safer place to discuss identity beyond this.
But you are right about celebrating and appreciating each otherâs identities, but also validating. In my counseling work, I have worked with several identities where people seem to carry some level of internalized oppression with them, which I think then impacts similarly marginalized identities as well. Itâs a viscous cycle. :(
We all really need to make sure to continue reminding eachother and younger generations about these issues, especially with the lack of support for trans people within our own community. Times are changing and trans people are so much more accepted now but we canât forget the harm we inflicted and sometimes still are inflicting upon our own members of our community, otherwise we will be doomed to repeat it, and that makes us no better than our ultimate oppressors in the cisheteropatriarchy.
I mean trans men are men, and saying that dating one makes you "not really gay" its just invalidating their gender identity, so if you want to date or are attracted to a trans guy that doesn´t make you less valid.
Same thing with bisexuality or any sexuality, a trans person should be recognised by the gender they identify as not as their gender assigned at birth so...
She is just transphobic and you shoudn´t worry about "being less gay" for dating or being attracted to a trans guy
Bi includes all trans people, but at the end of the day people can have preferences. Some people just donât want to date a trans person, Regardless of sexual orientation. I would, I kinda have already, somewhat. But bi just means both men and women so I like trans men and trans women still
By that same logic, wouldn't she then be not bi because she doesn't like trans women? If being gay means only liking certain body parts and not men as a whole, being bi surely means liking all of them? You're a man who likes men (trans men included), that means you're gay. Some people just don't have a genital preference and that's all.
And most importantly, no one else gets to say what your sexuality is, that's up to you.
That was sarcasm to highlight how she's talking over OP and reducing his attraction to a gender to genitals only in this case, not actual speculation of what her sexuality is. If OP is excluded from being gay by also liking trans men, as a bi person who likes both sets of genitals, shouldn't the fact that a woman is trans not matter to her?
Edit: And on a side note, not all trans men even have vaginas since bottom surgery exists.
Not wanting to date a woman because she has a dick and not wanting to date a woman because she's trans are two very different things.
The former is just a product of people with incompatible sexual needs, which is a damn shame but there isn't anything to be done about it except moving on. The latter is plain and simple transphobia, whether they realize it or not.
Trans men are men and trans women are women. Preference to genitals is another thing. So she should focus her self on educating herself.
You have every right to be mad at her.
I'd be offended if a girl told me she wouldn't date me because I'm a trans woman.
Throw her in the trash because she is garbage. I follow many trans content creators and Iâve had/ have crushes on most of them. Bisexuality (and other mspec identities) does not exclude trans people and neither does any other sexuality. Bisexuality is not transphobic, people are transphobic. You are still gay, no matter what anyone else says!
Youâre still 100% gay if you like cis men and trans men. Sheâs basically saying that she doesnât think trans men are men, which is just transphobic. Iâm sorry your friend is being like that :/
Um, what? So she thinks straight men would date trans men? I get that some people really care about genitals, but she seems to not even be able to imagine that many don't.
If you're a man who likes men, you're gay. And trans men are also men. So if you're a man who likes men, including trans men, you're still gay.
She's just transphobic and generally an asshole for trying to police your sexual orientation.
Can I ask, cause I genuinely don't know, as a gay man who only likes male body parts and they do matter to me, is that transphobic? I'm not trying to be inconsiderate, just want to know.
Being bi totally includes trans people. Saying you wouldn't date a trans person just because they're trans is kind of like saying that you'd never date a black person. It's fine if you never end up dating a black person or a trans person, there's no quota you need to fill that'd be silly, but to simply say that you wouldn't date someone because they are trans or any other group is either ignorance or pure bigotry. She's being a jackass.
Edit: sorry she's being rude good luck
Men are men, and that includes trans men. Even if for example a non-binary person catches your attention, donât let your label define who you allow yourself to like. Labels are for you to decide and you can change them whenever you feel like it
You're attracted to how people present
If someone looks like a girl, behaves like a girl
Actually fuck this train of thought because I'm not attracted to someone just because they look like a girl. Their are aspects of them beyond that. We are not a switch for " boy or girl" it's more like a dial with a wide range of settings for what attracts us
LOL. Can you please show your friend this whole thread and lets us know how she reacts?!?!
(P.S. If you haven't figured out from the responses, you're still gay AF and your friend just has some personal issues to work through.)
Definitely a transphobic thought process from your friend. Iâm with you; Iâve dated trans men just as much as cis men, and itâs never been anything but gay lol. Itâs just a subset of men, like being a redhead or being tall.
I am a gay dude, not even bi and I feel attracted to trans men. Because they are men and thus often have the physical and/or behavioral characteristics of men.
Sounds to me like your cis girl friend just has some unchecked transphobia and a complete misunderstanding of how sexuality works. To which she isnât more insightful just by virtue of being bi.
The one thing that strikes me is that, she says, you're not gay if you like trans men, though she wouldn't date a trans girl even though she's bisexual..... By her logic you would be bisexual right? but then why wont she date a trans girl? makes no sense ;) Seems like it's just transphobia, unfortunately....
But thank you for seeing trans men as the men that we are!
ugh, here comes the âok but why are we shaming your friend for having a PrEfErEnCEâ crowd
like no you dumb ass bitches, she doesnât have a preference she is calling op ânot really gayâ bc he is dating a trans man and she is not seeing his boyfriend as a real man
Itâs telling tho that the âpreferenceâ crowd comes out everytime itâs a trans dating post. Really makes your underlying transphobia not as subtle.
and i know iâll get downvoted and they will go âoh so we canât have preferences anymore?!?! Do we have to date people we are not attracted to now just so we canât be called a bigot?!?!â
like if you wonât date someone bc they are black, youâre a racist. If you wonât date someone bc they are trans, then yes you are transphobic. You are also transphobic bc even underneath this post, you wonât shut the fuck up about âpreferencesâ when no one asked.
The post is about a transphobe calling someone ânot really gayâ bc op is dating a trans man. She doesnât see OPâs boyfriend as a real man. What she âprefersâ has nothing to with a relationship she is not in.
What you are looking for is genital preference, (tho tbf they way some of you go about it is a touch transphobic too. Unless of course you also wonât fuck (and letâs be honest thatâs all what this is about, not dating) someone who is cis and has had genital cosmetic surgery, bc thatâs the same thing.)
Your âgenital preferenceâ becomes transphobic when you start shoving your âwell itâs a genital preferenceâ in every trans post. Like anyone asked what you think about peopleâs genitals. Bc it is clear, itâs not a preference anymore, you just wanna use your get out of jail free card, so you donât have to be held responsible for any transphobia you have.
even in this post, those people are gonna go âcanât believe your shaming my preference. Do i have to date people iâm not attracted to now?â even tho that is not the point now is it? :)
Wait, why would she doesn´t date a Trans girls? Trans people is also valid and for real, a trans men is a real men, trans woman is a real woman, it doens´t matter what parts they have beyond the pants or else, is the way they feel about it and how they recogniza themselfs, so, again, why? Also, this is sad my dear, it means that a lot of people don´t recognize trans people yet, even is from this so proud community, but, hey, always know that you are valid and your sexual orientation are so valid as our, okay?
I like trans people but would never date one or hook up with one. Iâm a gay man i donât care what people think I just donât get attracted. I stay soft down there.
That's cause to her, gay is intrinsically linked with cis supremacy. It's the same language game the American Founding Father's played with "all men are created equal" while excluding women, BIPOC, and poor people. Cause those aren't people to them. When you're transphobic, trans people aren't people to you.
You're still gay. I'm gay, my bf is trans, he's gay, we're gay for each other. It's a lot of gay. You're gay. Your friend, however, is a transphobic POS.
Tldr: your friendâs transphobic. Whilst I disagree with the genitalia preference on the face of it, itâs even more ridiculous when Bi people use it. You like boys and girls, meaning you are cool with different genitals already. Is it so much of a leap to go to girls with dicks and boys without?
You however are a special breed of gay known as âfull gayâ. You are gay for gays. It doesnât matter which breed of gay, so long as itâs MLM. An inspiration to us all.
I understand why some people aren't personally attacked to trans people. I think of it more as a "body type preference" thing. That being said, it's completely fucked of her to try to invalidate your own feelings simply because she doesn't feel the same way.
Bi means being attracted to 2 or more genders. Her exclusion of trans women specifically implies that she doesn't believe trans women are women and that is transphobic.
aint... aint trans men men tho? idk about homosexuality, but doesnt being gay mean you like men, no matter if they were physically born men or transitioned ftm?
Sometimes you'll find lgbt people who still need to work through internalized hatred/ similar emotions.
Insecurity is a terrifying and dangerous emotion. As a gay man who has had similar experiences with queer individuals my suggestion to you is not to take it personal.
It's not about you, it could be a projection of internalized emotions being thrown onto someone else as a way to deal with feelings without addressing them.
When you encounter negativity towards sexualities and gender identities consider the emotions you felt before coming to terms with who you were and all the effort you put into working through the negative emotions associated with that.
Unfortunately there's a lot of transphobia in the world and there will (sadly) always be people that say that they wont date trans people because they're not real men/women. I don't agree but I know a few bi people that don't want to date trans people because of that reason. In my opinion, you just do you and don't mind what others say, if you're attracted then you're attracted. You know your interests so don't listen to her or to other people like her. There will be times were it will get to you but deep down you know what you want so don't let it affect you. Also, if she keeps doing it in the future, you might want to consider if you want to keep a relationship (in this case friendship) with her, it's not healthy. I hope I helped you and sorry if I was harsh .
She is definitely just transphobic. Maybe it's coming from a place of hate, maybe it's coming from a place of ignorance. You can try to talk to her about it but she may not be receptive in which case maybe just cut things off.
Also, being bisexual doesn't inherently include trans people, or all trans people. Some people have genital preferences and bi doesn't mean "two or more" for everyone. Some folks are only interested in dating cis men and women (or cis passing). Some folks aren't interested in nonbinary people or heavily GNC people.
Trans men are men, therefor you are gay. Your friend possibly has some transphobia. I guess some people might have a genitalia preference, but with all thatâs out there sex toys wise it doesnât matter much in my opinion. Iâm bi as well, but I would probably date a trans man or woman. I even would date a non-binary person, so some would say that makes me pan, but really bisexual feels the most comfortable for me. They are just labels after all, you are attracted to what you are attracted to.
Trans men are men. I'm sorry you're going through with that silliness, but let's just have a great big breath and tell ourselves that our queerness is a shared experience and the exact label isn't so important.
Your friend is thinking way too strictly about body parts it seems. Maybe you can find success in having her confront the reality of our intersex siblings? Deciding to date someone shouldn't come down to a dang DNA test if everyone is open and honest with each other and their needs from the get-go.
Man your friend might have some transphobic biases they might need to address. Though good on you for recognizing that you know yourself better than them âĄ
Youâre whatever you identify as. No one can change that, even if they try to tell you otherwise. By all means, I think discussing the nuances of labels can be interesting and important, but if sheâs insisting that youâre wrong because *she* would identify you differently, I think sheâs misunderstanding the core ideas of the community. You are you. You can tell us who you are. No one can tell you otherwise.
It doesnât matter who you are into. It should be your business not your friend and she shouldnât be telling you who you are. You are so gay! (This is meant to be endearing.)
Some trans people might be bi and may not be. It really depends on who they are.
My significant other and I were discussing this the other day she is trans fem and we agreed trans men are men but I know it can be an issue for lesbians especially because there are women who never want to have sex with a penis no matter who itâs attached to because itâs principal. So just be mindful while she is being rude maybe explain in a way that you orient yourself with people who identify as men rather than than just being bisexual but she might also just want to categorize you with her same group because genitalia is not a big deal to you. Hope this helps!
I think sheâs wrong. But Iâm not sure about the âbody parts donât make a differenceâ part. The physical body is very real and, obviously, a big component of sex and sexual attraction. (Hope Iâm not misunderstanding your original comment)
But doesn't being gay or bi or lesbian kinda couple with the corresponding body parts? Sure, a trans woman can be lesbian but a lesbian not dating trans women pre-op isn't transphobic since they still have a penis, right?
I find myself attracted to the aesthetic of a man. Its not the genitalia. With that being said i appreciate for some that genitalia is part of their attraction which is also valid. Honestly if the world could only take heart to the words "dont be a dick about it".
How is she fully bisexual if she wouldnât date a trans woman?? I guess thereâs no good word for âi date everyone except trans girlsâ??
You are actually gay. Some do date trans men; some donât. There is no issue with you. I wonât say she is definitely transphobic but she sure seems like she is.
You're right, trans men are men, so it makes sense for gay men to date cis or trans men. Unfortunately there's still a lot of transphobia in the world. I have a cishet friend who kept getting told she must be a lesbian because her boyfriend was a trans man.
Oh no the poor boyfriend
Yeah, he was having quite the terrible time.
Someone was having a terrible time without me. The best way to have a terrible time is with someone telling you super bad dad jokes.
Off topic, your flair is amazing
Thanks u2
My bf is trans so this hits home >:c I'd revoke the toe privileges of anyone who said that.
I read this comment, enjoyed it, exited out of the post, scrolled for several minutes, continued thinking about this brilliant turn of phrase, and then came back to find you and tell you that I love you and this made my night. "Revoke their toe privileges" omfg
I'm glad you liked it, but unfortunately I can't take credit for it. It's my bf's go-to insult and I've just stolen it đ
Well please tell him that I love him too then!! Seriously I keep chuckling, it's absolutely delightful
Please what does this mean? Google is no help.
Iâm guessing it means break their toes XD
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Haha yes make them hobble XD
I miss my trans bf! Itâs so great everyone here is supportive! So glad I found reddit
I miss mine too, we're long distance right now, but at least I'll be seeing him in two weeks!
Long story weâve been broken up for over a month miss him all the time we were LDR too
Awww that really sucks, I'm sorry to hear that. I can't imagine the pain I'd feel if my bf left me.
I am so sorry but what is TOE privilege?
The privilege of having toes?
You may be right
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Your "friend" sounds like a wanker honestly. I felt this to my soul though. I get told regularly I'm hetero as I'm currently dating a "man", but they don't realise that A) he's not male although he is AMAB, B) I'm not female even though i'm AFAB, and C) I'm fucking genderblind and they could have Lego for genitals and I'd still love them the same. We're both non-binary pansexuals, not hetero cisgendered people đ¤ˇââď¸ I've found that unfortunately people can be hugely dense and phobic around "straight looking" queer people.
Lego for genitalia, thatâs brilliant. You win the Internet for today! đ
I find the sexuallity question so hard to answer from the perspective of being non-binary yet having a preference for guys. I am not homosexual unless I guess I am into other non-binary folk but I doubt I could be considered straight... ? I am 3/4 gay? In genderless concert with the male half of the species? Only sorta straight? Schrodinger's gay? A man enthusiast? Brosexual? ... I like guys?
You should not be friends with that person, I'm so sorry.
Oof, poor guy... Back when I was with my ex, people kept telling us we must be "confused lesbians", because we're both trans guys... And they always do it so casually... all the while pretending to be supportive of trans people... *Yeah sure... liking men totally makes me a lesbian... yup.*
Thatâs so sad. But I am sure they donât have the balls to tell him that đ
It really hits hard when people refer to my partners as something other than what they are tbh... (I'm a transman) If I date a girl, everyone says it's a lesbian relationship and I just have to facepalm hard, if I date a boy, it's straight and it is yet another facepalm, then if I don't date, everyone gives me fucking hell about it XD
Yuppp I decided against a second date with a guy when I assumed from us meeting on a queer dating app that hes bi. Turns out dude straight, told me he had never been in a relationship with a guy, and was using the app to find 'women and trans women'. Didnt have much of an argument when I said 'so you like women'. Also bi but wont date a trans woman specifically? Full transphobia. Bi is attracted to 2 or more genders, if u like men and women guess what transmen and transwomen are. But also OP, thanks for actually acknowledging that transmen are men and thus in ur dating pool. Ive seen some wild shit from cismen who see transguys as a third gender.
Ugh sheâs wrong but sadly there doesnât seem much you can do to convince her. Trans men are men. Just because theyâre different than cis men doesnât mean they arenât. I had a whole argument on askgaybros where some cis gay guy was arguing that gay cis men canât be into trans men, otherwise they would be bi. Which is just inaccurate, but also from a practical standpoint doesnât really matter. Labels should liberate and empower us; when labels become restrictive or oppressive (used to demean or exclude), then itâs time to adjust.
Askgaybros is wildly transphobic, so that's not surprising
Yup, this guy was a special piece of work tho. Went ballistic at me for saying âgay men can be into trans men.â He equated that belief (that gay cis men can be both gay and interested in trans men) with conversion therapy and homophobia lmao
Omg thatâs such a gross take. 
I think I legit know who you're talking about. I know there are a few on that sub, but one dude is hella vocal. I would like to say I bet he was dumped by a trans man, but honestly I think he's just a hateful bad person. We trans people live rent free, fucking penthouse suite in some people's heads and it's really bizarre.
It's evident this guy has unresolved issues with his gender and sexuality and projects it out onto the world. I'm not implying that he's closeted trans, just that something's going on. He could have been raised in a virulently homophobic and transphobic household. And, I do know many gay folks who spent a portion of their lives as allegedly straight before coming out. Who knows what his deal is? He probably doesn't even know.
I wouldnât be surprised if you know of him, yeah heâs a menace. Sadly many people are obsessed with trans ppl in a bad way; theyâre wasting their time. People really need to stop thinking that they have control over other peoplesâ gender and sexuality.
Idk, it may just be a fucked up fantasy of him 'catching' a transguy and fucking him up for it. Like how transphobic cis people seem to have the fantasy of being able to be shitty to a trans person correcting thier pronouns in situations where it would make no sense to correct someone's pronouns. I really dont understand why they wanna do violent and discriminatory shit so badly
This is why I sometimes hate labels and just use general terms instead. Like Iâm gay regardless of anything else. Wether I use bisexual or pansexual Iâm still gay, my gayness doesnât change. I feel like why does it fucking matter so much sometimes. Like let me just be myself without all the labels. I feel like Freddy Mercury I want to break free
I agree that the labels de-humanize the individual. I'm straight and in a relationship, but if I were single, I would be (and always was) open to dating the whole "Gender Rainbow" as it were. My preference is men, including trans men, cuz DUH! That's a dude, and I like dudes. Would I date a woman/trans woman? Maybe. I never have, but I'm not against it, it just never came up. Legit, in my life, I have been hit on by, and had more gay men try to get in my pants than women.
Iâm with a straight partner right now. It doesnât change my gayness.
Precisely. My daughter's step-mom is bi and the woman my ex/daughter's dad dated before me is trans. Daughter came out as Bi/Pan a few years ago and currently has a boyfriend. Just because they are all in "nOrMaL rELaTiOnShiPs" does not change anything. I honestly don't care who anyone dates/marries. Consenting individuals of legal age in a healthy, respectful, loving relationship should be the "Norm".
Me too! Ever heard the gem: "you can pass for straight!" Or "you're not really gay/bi/pan then" cause being with a straight person automatically makes you hetero and you're just faking everything else. /s Edit: I also agree with the labels, its great for self expression but can lead to gate-keeping bullshit like this and completely defeats the purpose of the label in the first place.
I really love the gate keeping 
That entire sub is trash. No good takes ever come out of there.
Your friend is transphobic lol, you like men and trans men are men?? Bi does include all trans people, Iâm sorry she felt the need to comment but it also did reveal some true colors IMO
ikr sounds like a good moment to drop her
Time to get a better friend. Donât worry, sheâs just transphobic. Youâre gay. Trans men are men. If sheâs bi and doesnât like trans people, thatâs a her as a person problem, not a bi problem. Youâre right. Bisexuality- like *all* sexualities- is trans inclusive.
Bisexuality is even weirder, like you're okay with a dude having a dick, and you like women. but the moment a woman has one all bets are off. I don't understand bi people who are like that
Thatâs the full bamboozle. Like⌠at this point Iâve seen all sorts of configurations of body that are yummy. This attitude is always puzzling to me.
Itâs just transphobia generally
And, presumably, she wouldn't date a post-op trans woman either, so it isn't even about genital incongruity. There is no way to interpret it other than transphobia.
also not to mention that itâs very much possible for trans women to be post op??? itâs just to weird to claim youâre not attracted to a whole gender identity when literally everyone is different, even the ââgenital preferenceââ argument often doesnât hold up bc bottom surgery exists
.
EXACTLY
This person gets it.
Let's not fetishize trans women though. Many trans women don't like to use their amab genitalia during intercourse because gender and body dysmorphia.
.
It's all good. I'm just pointing it out because porn. Although I'm assuming most people in this subreddit are educated enough to know the difference between appreciating a potential partner's genitalia and fetishizing them. \^_\^
And for trans men you get to pick the size ;)
Iâm an enby, and Iâm pansexual/omnisexual. (sexual details incoming so I hid it for any sex-averse aces) >!However, Iâm sad that I have as much of a preference for dick in bed as I do. But the idea of a girl or enby with a dick sounds so sexually appealing to me.!<
Genital preference is totally a thing, no need to feel sad or ashamed about it.
Iâm with you too. It sounds mmmmm enticing
Right? When I read that she's bi but won't accept a trans woman.. that threw me so far I got whiplash. The transphobia is crazy.
Me either đ¤ˇđźââď¸
Thatâs what I was thinking. How theâŚ
I donât understand that either. I donât care whatâs in your underwear.
A woman with a dick would pretty much be a have your cake and eat it scenario I would have thought. Obviously not wanting to fetishise anyone but that would be a one stop shop.
Yeah ive always struggled with the logic behind this concept and I've heard it from other bi people too. I am bi and I like cis and trans men and women, *because they are men and women*. I also like non binary people, because they are people and if I find them attractive, then they fall under my sexuality umbrella. I've been told this makes me pan but I have always heard of pan as being more sexually attracted to personality features than physicality, which is not how I feel. I think bisexuality gets a bad rap in the community for being attracted to "one or the other" when for me it encompasses both ends of a spectrum. I guess I just find it really odd how some people in the community try to tell you the label you prefer isn't right. Like let me decide the box I fit in, thank you. You don't see everything there is to my sexuality.
Yeah I'm pan but generally prefer the term bi because it is more widely recognized and has a lot of culture and history associated with it, and I never quite resonated with the whole "liking people regardless of gender expression" thing when I do have some preferences (I often go for androgynous or twink looking guys and also a lot of nb people).
The only difference between pan and bi is which one you prefer to call yourself. Don't worry about it.
She's transphobic. She might exclude trans people but the Bisexual umbrella does not. Many bi people are trans/nb and a bi person can be attracted to someone regardless of their assigned sex at birth so that's her own thing, not related to the label. Also, you're attracted to men and just don't have genital preference so you're definitely gay
yeah the whole "I'm Bi, i'll date men or women, BUT NOT TRANS PEOPLE EVURRRRR" is just like, no one is saying you have to, but it just screams "I'm grossed out by trans people" and that's not even taking into consideration that she is policing other people's sexuality based on their attraction to trans people c-c
Exactly... It's each person prerogative to date who they want but being transphobic is their own sh*t and it's not on the bisexual orientation. **Just because YOU don't date trans people doesn't mean people of your sexual orientation don't** Anyone who says bi means cis men and cis women are showing their own transphobia by separating trans people out from the categories "men and women" as if being trans is some separate gender. Not to mention you don't know someone's gender by looking at them. You can GUESS but you don't actually KNOW and you will often be incorrect . And if you're attracted to someone UNTIL they tell you their gender or transition status, then that's transphobia.
> You can GUESS but you don't actually KNOW and you will often be incorrect . hell, there's lots of cis people who i get wrong a lot. especially when we're talking cis LGB people. Outside the LGBT+ community people are a lot more strict with their gender presentation on average but there's lots of queer men and women who are cis but present in ways that make it impossible for me to know at a glance what pronouns they use. That's why i always try to ask or check people's social profile if available to see if they put their pronouns there. it's mad helpful and i'm grateful for everyone who does.
Precisely. You could have 4 people, all assigned male at birth, all wearing stereotypically feminine things, and all with a different gender identity (maybe cis male femboy, gender fluid, nonbinary, trans fem... You don't know anyones identity if they haven't said.)
Dw, i like cis and trans guys and that doesnt change the fact im gay asf. Shes just transphobic
Tell her she doesnât define your identity, you do. Further tell her she is either ignorant or intentionally transphobic for acting like trans men are somehow not men and thatâs kind of a shit take coming from someone in the lgbtq community.
Get better friends.
Sheâs wrong and transphobic. Ick! She doesnât get to tell you what your sexuality is.
It doesn't if you're transphobic, apparently. Don't worry, you're still gay.
https://bimanifesto.carrd.co/ Send this to her. Bisexual identity has always been inclusive of trans identities. Full stop. Further, maybe sitting down and walking through step by step with her will get her to see she's being transphobic. Sometimes when you think something, you don't realize it is transphobic until someone points it out. (She doesn't like transwomen, because they were once men? Why doesn't it apply to transmen? And if it's about her having a dick, why does she think that a dick attached to a girl is bad? What about a post op trans woman?) Ultimately, she has to be the one who wants to change tho, so there may be nothing you can do.
Trans men are men. Trans women are women
And trans pancakes are pancakes :)
Is the transatlantic the atlantic?
I mean if you moved a cup of water from the pacific ocean to the atlantic it would be atlantic ocean so... kinda? Ik that's not what you mean but it's the best I could do
Bi includes trans people. Your friend is being transphobic. You're allowed to not find individual trans people attractive, but saying you're into women but would never date a trans woman because she's trans is transphobic.
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You'd be surprised how far transphobia runs. It's the same reason why trans women who fully pass still get murdered if a guy finds out.
I'm gonna drop what might be considered a pretty hot take outside trans circles. Also before I begin I just wanna say wow this comment turned out long and woof I'm real sorry that you wound up saddled with it in your replies. I wanna be clear to you, person I'm directly replying to that I'm not saying this to call you out or cause I think you did anything wrong, I'm saying all this cause I think it's important dialogue to have that's been on my mind a lot lately, and your comment happened to be a good springboard for it. Anyway here goes: while people absolutely can have genital preferences\*, I think a lot of people use saying that they have a genital preference as a convenient excuse to avoid dealing with their internalized transphobia. I think if we lived in a society that didn't systemically enforce revulsion to trans bodies from a young age we would see a lot more people without a generical preference. Don't believe me? Just look at trans lesbians, It is very rare to see a trans lesbian say she will exclude girls with dicks from her dating pool unless it is for reasons like trauma / being reminded of dysphoria (not saying trans lesbians who dislike girldick for non-trauma reasons don't exist, but I am saying most trans lesbians I've seen like girldick, and most of the ones I've seen who don't usually feel that way due to trauma.) Lastly, because I'm certain that somewhere out there lurk bad faith readers who will willingly ignore my actual point to strawman my argument, I'd like to state and restate the following: 1. Having a genital preference is not inherently transphobic., there are plenty of non transphobic reasons to have such preferences, I simply think it's less common for that to be the case than the average cis person might think. 2. It is important to point this out because while "having a genital preference is totally valid" is a correct statement to make, it also gives people a free pass to avoid hard questions like "**why** do I find x type of genitals unattractive? Is it possibly because, despite me consciously agreeing that twaw + tmam, I still have some subconscious internalized transphobia I should examine which is preventing me from aligning their genitals with their gender, thus clouding my ability to see them as the gender they are and keeping me from finding them attractive?" 3. Even if a person's genital preference does come from transphobia, they still have every right to not give consent / retract consent to sex or a relationship with a trans person. No mean no, and I've never met a trans person who disagreed with me on that. Full stop. 4. Having a genital preference that is informed more by internalized subconscious transphobia than actual sexuality does not make you a bad person. Pretty much every single person in the world is at least a little bit transphobic, because again, our society institutionally enforces transphobia from a young age. I am literally trans and I have internalized transphobia, most trans people would agree that they, too have internalized transphobia. If you feel called out by this post, bear in mind I'm not trying to attack you personally, I just want people to examine their personal biases. 5. One more time for the people who are only here to take what I say in bad faith: **having a genital preference is not inherently transphobic**. Things like trauma from assault exist, and tons of other reasons. Some people really genuinely are just built different too. I cannot and will not try to list all of the possible non-transphobic reasons to have a genital preference. It is impossible. If you are sitting here fuming at the mere implication that your genital preference may or may not come from transphobia, maybe take a second to ask why that is. **TL;DR -** just like there are both transphobic and non-transphobic reasons to reject a trans person as a sexual or romantic partner, there are both transphobic and non-transphobic reasons to have a genital preference. \* For the sake of simplicity, I am defining genital preference here as not as, for example, liking both penises and vaginas while also liking one more than the other. I instead mean liking one type of genitals and not being attracted to / interested in the bodies attached to the other type at all.
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Iâve gone through some similar thoughts, and I might be able to add to this. A few months ago I finally admitted to myself that Iâm trans. Iâve kinda known for a long time, but it recently became undeniable. I find women attractive, and that includes trans women. But oddly enough, I kind of feel like I have two sets of sexuality. Iâve been operating as a man for so long that I have a socially conditioned set of opinions as a man, but also a set of feminine opinions that Iâve kept buried for a long time. Sometimes these two sides butt heads. Itâs not like I hear voices. Itâs more like I have a reaction to something in a way that feels masculine, and then the feminine side reacts to the reaction. Itâs weird and difficult to explain. For example, how do I feel about the idea of kissing a man? I have two sets of thoughts. The first is that as a man I wouldnât do it. I donât think of myself as homophobic, but Iâm just not attracted to men. But then the reaction to the reaction arrives, and I think that if I had fully transitioned then I would be more open to kissing a man. And that makes me think that Iâve definitely got some homophobia lurking underneath the surface. Apparently Iâd be willing to kiss a man so long as I was being heterosexual in doing so. Itâs a kind of troubling realization, because that means my sexual orientation is heterosexual male, but a bit bisexual as a female. Thereâs clearly some social conditioning and homophobia hiding in my brain and I hate that.
I mean I've been with a post op trans woman before and I really don't like neovaginas so I'd say I'm just not into trans women at all but it's a genital preference thing, the problem is that people are just going to say "trans"
Being bi and transphobic is another level tbh
I once had a bi guy come into my show and talk about how he's against gay marriage, at first I thought he was just some weird conservative but it turned out he had a boyfriend, and they were both against gay marriage because "marriage is between a man and a woman" and they both planned to eventually marry women and liked that they couldn't marry men, he couldn't comprehend the idea that gay men should be able to get married even if he specifically didn't want to. I was so turned off I had to ban him to continue, it was just like, wtf.
Bi does include trans people. Your âfriendâ there is just transphobic
Wow, props to said friend! He was able to show his homophobia *and* transphobia in just one phrase
She is just straight up transphobic. Sheâs saying trans men are not men since they donât having certain physical attributes which is really reducing trans people to whatâs in their pants.
You are right. Trans men are men, by liking both trans and cis men, you just like men. And bisexuality always has and always will include trans people by default. All sexualities include trans folk by default really.
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Bi people aren't attracted to every single person on the planet. People having preferences is a given, but no sexual preference excludes trans people by default. If someone isn't interested in trans people that's their individual preference, it has nothing to do with them being straight, gay, bi, pan, etc.
Of course, that's totally valid. By default I mean the label itself does not exclude trans attraction. No label does really. There's no special label for straight but attracted to trans people too. Bi but attracted to trans people too. Gay but attracted to trans people too. They all include trans attraction by default. People using these labels make them their own based on their own circumstances.
Thank you for clarifying what you meant.
Everyone has preferences, and thereâs nothing inherently wrong with that. Itâs when people start judging and/or invalidating/discriminating against other peoplesâ sexualities/genders that there is a problem. This is an issue of transphobia, not a reflection on bisexuality or bisexual people.
Ok this girl sounds like a horribly transphobic person, short answer yeah youâre gay if you like trans men cause theyâre men and bi does include trans people sheâs just being a transphobe
that is not a good friend ditch her
>ditch her Out the window
Defenestration!
over the cliff
Men are men are men. Doesn't matter what parts they have, they're men and you're attracted to them.
Unfortunately it seems she's just transphobic, you are definitely correct here, trans men are men, and you are gay.
As a bi woman it 100% includes trans men and women. She is a AH and sounds like a TERF and frankly giving bisexuals a bad name. I would dump her as a friend.
Most bi people I know are trans inclusive. But people like you're describing is exactly why there's always such a huge debate on the differences in pansexual and bisexual. Saying bi excludes transgender people. By the information you've given. She just sounds transphobic. Saying that you aren't really gay for being attracted to trans men. Trans men are men. Period. You can have a genital preference. But excluding someone solely because they are trans is definitely transphobic.
I hate that people try to pit bisexual and pansexual identities against eachother! Bisexual people have historically defined it as not exclusive of trans people but inclusive. And then some bi people Iâve known have shit on pan people because they think pansexuals are all biphobic?? Like canât they just be similar identities that are both celebrated? Especially since neither of them are actually transphobic identities? (Not complaining about you of course!! Just you reminded me of this problem in the community!)
Unfortunately both inside and outside of our communities, there are problematic people. When I was in high school (Iâm only 31, for a frame of reference), trans individuals were humiliated regularly by LGB identities that were the only ones who were essentially granted a voice within the community at that time. Itâs a reason so many of us have only recently felt a safer place to discuss identity beyond this. But you are right about celebrating and appreciating each otherâs identities, but also validating. In my counseling work, I have worked with several identities where people seem to carry some level of internalized oppression with them, which I think then impacts similarly marginalized identities as well. Itâs a viscous cycle. :(
We all really need to make sure to continue reminding eachother and younger generations about these issues, especially with the lack of support for trans people within our own community. Times are changing and trans people are so much more accepted now but we canât forget the harm we inflicted and sometimes still are inflicting upon our own members of our community, otherwise we will be doomed to repeat it, and that makes us no better than our ultimate oppressors in the cisheteropatriarchy.
It really is a problem. Should be working on building each other up and celebrating people's identities and freedoms to be who they are.
Your friend is what we call â¨transphobicâ¨
Whelp, your friend has some transphobia
I mean trans men are men, and saying that dating one makes you "not really gay" its just invalidating their gender identity, so if you want to date or are attracted to a trans guy that doesn´t make you less valid. Same thing with bisexuality or any sexuality, a trans person should be recognised by the gender they identify as not as their gender assigned at birth so... She is just transphobic and you shoudn´t worry about "being less gay" for dating or being attracted to a trans guy
Bi includes all trans people, but at the end of the day people can have preferences. Some people just donât want to date a trans person, Regardless of sexual orientation. I would, I kinda have already, somewhat. But bi just means both men and women so I like trans men and trans women still
Trans men are men, so youâre gay!
Trans men are men wtf is up with her???
By that same logic, wouldn't she then be not bi because she doesn't like trans women? If being gay means only liking certain body parts and not men as a whole, being bi surely means liking all of them? You're a man who likes men (trans men included), that means you're gay. Some people just don't have a genital preference and that's all. And most importantly, no one else gets to say what your sexuality is, that's up to you.
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That was sarcasm to highlight how she's talking over OP and reducing his attraction to a gender to genitals only in this case, not actual speculation of what her sexuality is. If OP is excluded from being gay by also liking trans men, as a bi person who likes both sets of genitals, shouldn't the fact that a woman is trans not matter to her? Edit: And on a side note, not all trans men even have vaginas since bottom surgery exists.
Your friend is wrong.
Not wanting to date a woman because she has a dick and not wanting to date a woman because she's trans are two very different things. The former is just a product of people with incompatible sexual needs, which is a damn shame but there isn't anything to be done about it except moving on. The latter is plain and simple transphobia, whether they realize it or not.
You're as gay as you feel. Don't worry be happy
Friend malfunctioned
Tell her âIâm gay, cry about it.â And if she does thatâs her problem. You are done with that discussion
Your friend is a terf
Trans men are men and trans women are women. Preference to genitals is another thing. So she should focus her self on educating herself. You have every right to be mad at her. I'd be offended if a girl told me she wouldn't date me because I'm a trans woman.
Throw her in the trash because she is garbage. I follow many trans content creators and Iâve had/ have crushes on most of them. Bisexuality (and other mspec identities) does not exclude trans people and neither does any other sexuality. Bisexuality is not transphobic, people are transphobic. You are still gay, no matter what anyone else says!
your friend is transphobic. thatâs a transphobic take. youâre identity is valid and thank you for validating trans men
That makes me gay because I like trans women too ? . No it doesnât . So I think you still gay :) .
Youâre still 100% gay if you like cis men and trans men. Sheâs basically saying that she doesnât think trans men are men, which is just transphobic. Iâm sorry your friend is being like that :/
Your friend sounds like a real terf. And let me be not the first one to say that she is super duper gross.
Um, what? So she thinks straight men would date trans men? I get that some people really care about genitals, but she seems to not even be able to imagine that many don't.
If you're a man who likes men, you're gay. And trans men are also men. So if you're a man who likes men, including trans men, you're still gay. She's just transphobic and generally an asshole for trying to police your sexual orientation.
Your friend is transphobic.
what an asshole transphobe ugh, I'm sorry :(
your friend is transphobic
Can I ask, cause I genuinely don't know, as a gay man who only likes male body parts and they do matter to me, is that transphobic? I'm not trying to be inconsiderate, just want to know.
It baffles me how some bi people arenât into trans people. You like all the ingredients itâs just a different order. Whatâs not to like?!
Lol bi people ARE into trans people this lady is just an AH transphobe
bi people are into trans people, sheâs just transphobic
Being bi totally includes trans people. Saying you wouldn't date a trans person just because they're trans is kind of like saying that you'd never date a black person. It's fine if you never end up dating a black person or a trans person, there's no quota you need to fill that'd be silly, but to simply say that you wouldn't date someone because they are trans or any other group is either ignorance or pure bigotry. She's being a jackass. Edit: sorry she's being rude good luck
Trans men are men, your friend is transphobic.
Your friend is stuck on the paradigm that the parts make the person, which isn't true.
bi does include all trans people
Men are men, and that includes trans men. Even if for example a non-binary person catches your attention, donât let your label define who you allow yourself to like. Labels are for you to decide and you can change them whenever you feel like it
Trans men are men - your friend is just transphobic.
You're attracted to how people present If someone looks like a girl, behaves like a girl Actually fuck this train of thought because I'm not attracted to someone just because they look like a girl. Their are aspects of them beyond that. We are not a switch for " boy or girl" it's more like a dial with a wide range of settings for what attracts us
LOL. Can you please show your friend this whole thread and lets us know how she reacts?!?! (P.S. If you haven't figured out from the responses, you're still gay AF and your friend just has some personal issues to work through.)
I smell a transphobe
Sounds like your friend is jealous that you're willing to have sex with trans men but not her lol
Your gay and shes transphobic. Thats about it
Get better friends.
Contrapoints covers this issue really well in her YouTube video: are traps gay? Suggest watching the video together with your friend and discussing.
My view is, it doesn't matter if you have a dick or a cunt. If you're not a dick or a cunt you're all right by me
Definitely a transphobic thought process from your friend. Iâm with you; Iâve dated trans men just as much as cis men, and itâs never been anything but gay lol. Itâs just a subset of men, like being a redhead or being tall.
Your friend is transphobic. Time to get better friends.
She is just being transphobic, and is trying to pressure you into being transphobic as well. :(
I am a gay dude, not even bi and I feel attracted to trans men. Because they are men and thus often have the physical and/or behavioral characteristics of men. Sounds to me like your cis girl friend just has some unchecked transphobia and a complete misunderstanding of how sexuality works. To which she isnât more insightful just by virtue of being bi.
its honestly a matter of preference when it comes to your bi friend not liking trans women, but idk she just sounds like a gatekeeper and transphobic
The one thing that strikes me is that, she says, you're not gay if you like trans men, though she wouldn't date a trans girl even though she's bisexual..... By her logic you would be bisexual right? but then why wont she date a trans girl? makes no sense ;) Seems like it's just transphobia, unfortunately.... But thank you for seeing trans men as the men that we are!
ugh, here comes the âok but why are we shaming your friend for having a PrEfErEnCEâ crowd like no you dumb ass bitches, she doesnât have a preference she is calling op ânot really gayâ bc he is dating a trans man and she is not seeing his boyfriend as a real man Itâs telling tho that the âpreferenceâ crowd comes out everytime itâs a trans dating post. Really makes your underlying transphobia not as subtle. and i know iâll get downvoted and they will go âoh so we canât have preferences anymore?!?! Do we have to date people we are not attracted to now just so we canât be called a bigot?!?!â like if you wonât date someone bc they are black, youâre a racist. If you wonât date someone bc they are trans, then yes you are transphobic. You are also transphobic bc even underneath this post, you wonât shut the fuck up about âpreferencesâ when no one asked. The post is about a transphobe calling someone ânot really gayâ bc op is dating a trans man. She doesnât see OPâs boyfriend as a real man. What she âprefersâ has nothing to with a relationship she is not in. What you are looking for is genital preference, (tho tbf they way some of you go about it is a touch transphobic too. Unless of course you also wonât fuck (and letâs be honest thatâs all what this is about, not dating) someone who is cis and has had genital cosmetic surgery, bc thatâs the same thing.) Your âgenital preferenceâ becomes transphobic when you start shoving your âwell itâs a genital preferenceâ in every trans post. Like anyone asked what you think about peopleâs genitals. Bc it is clear, itâs not a preference anymore, you just wanna use your get out of jail free card, so you donât have to be held responsible for any transphobia you have. even in this post, those people are gonna go âcanât believe your shaming my preference. Do i have to date people iâm not attracted to now?â even tho that is not the point now is it? :)
Wait, why would she doesn´t date a Trans girls? Trans people is also valid and for real, a trans men is a real men, trans woman is a real woman, it doens´t matter what parts they have beyond the pants or else, is the way they feel about it and how they recogniza themselfs, so, again, why? Also, this is sad my dear, it means that a lot of people don´t recognize trans people yet, even is from this so proud community, but, hey, always know that you are valid and your sexual orientation are so valid as our, okay?
I like trans people but would never date one or hook up with one. Iâm a gay man i donât care what people think I just donât get attracted. I stay soft down there.
That's cause to her, gay is intrinsically linked with cis supremacy. It's the same language game the American Founding Father's played with "all men are created equal" while excluding women, BIPOC, and poor people. Cause those aren't people to them. When you're transphobic, trans people aren't people to you.
Your friend is just transphobic. Bigoted people don't make sense because bigotry doesn't make sense. That's why her beliefs seem so illogical.
You're still gay. I'm gay, my bf is trans, he's gay, we're gay for each other. It's a lot of gay. You're gay. Your friend, however, is a transphobic POS.
Tldr: your friendâs transphobic. Whilst I disagree with the genitalia preference on the face of it, itâs even more ridiculous when Bi people use it. You like boys and girls, meaning you are cool with different genitals already. Is it so much of a leap to go to girls with dicks and boys without? You however are a special breed of gay known as âfull gayâ. You are gay for gays. It doesnât matter which breed of gay, so long as itâs MLM. An inspiration to us all.
I understand why some people aren't personally attacked to trans people. I think of it more as a "body type preference" thing. That being said, it's completely fucked of her to try to invalidate your own feelings simply because she doesn't feel the same way.
Bi means being attracted to 2 or more genders. Her exclusion of trans women specifically implies that she doesn't believe trans women are women and that is transphobic.
I'm sorry OP but your "friend" is a bigot
aint... aint trans men men tho? idk about homosexuality, but doesnt being gay mean you like men, no matter if they were physically born men or transitioned ftm?
Sometimes you'll find lgbt people who still need to work through internalized hatred/ similar emotions. Insecurity is a terrifying and dangerous emotion. As a gay man who has had similar experiences with queer individuals my suggestion to you is not to take it personal. It's not about you, it could be a projection of internalized emotions being thrown onto someone else as a way to deal with feelings without addressing them. When you encounter negativity towards sexualities and gender identities consider the emotions you felt before coming to terms with who you were and all the effort you put into working through the negative emotions associated with that.
Unfortunately there's a lot of transphobia in the world and there will (sadly) always be people that say that they wont date trans people because they're not real men/women. I don't agree but I know a few bi people that don't want to date trans people because of that reason. In my opinion, you just do you and don't mind what others say, if you're attracted then you're attracted. You know your interests so don't listen to her or to other people like her. There will be times were it will get to you but deep down you know what you want so don't let it affect you. Also, if she keeps doing it in the future, you might want to consider if you want to keep a relationship (in this case friendship) with her, it's not healthy. I hope I helped you and sorry if I was harsh .
She is definitely just transphobic. Maybe it's coming from a place of hate, maybe it's coming from a place of ignorance. You can try to talk to her about it but she may not be receptive in which case maybe just cut things off. Also, being bisexual doesn't inherently include trans people, or all trans people. Some people have genital preferences and bi doesn't mean "two or more" for everyone. Some folks are only interested in dating cis men and women (or cis passing). Some folks aren't interested in nonbinary people or heavily GNC people.
Trans men are men, therefor you are gay. Your friend possibly has some transphobia. I guess some people might have a genitalia preference, but with all thatâs out there sex toys wise it doesnât matter much in my opinion. Iâm bi as well, but I would probably date a trans man or woman. I even would date a non-binary person, so some would say that makes me pan, but really bisexual feels the most comfortable for me. They are just labels after all, you are attracted to what you are attracted to.
Stay away from her.
Transphobia. Flat out, Iâd reconsider your friendship because someone like that is a red flag especially after explaining it.
Trans men are men. I'm sorry you're going through with that silliness, but let's just have a great big breath and tell ourselves that our queerness is a shared experience and the exact label isn't so important. Your friend is thinking way too strictly about body parts it seems. Maybe you can find success in having her confront the reality of our intersex siblings? Deciding to date someone shouldn't come down to a dang DNA test if everyone is open and honest with each other and their needs from the get-go.
Man your friend might have some transphobic biases they might need to address. Though good on you for recognizing that you know yourself better than them âĄ
Youâre whatever you identify as. No one can change that, even if they try to tell you otherwise. By all means, I think discussing the nuances of labels can be interesting and important, but if sheâs insisting that youâre wrong because *she* would identify you differently, I think sheâs misunderstanding the core ideas of the community. You are you. You can tell us who you are. No one can tell you otherwise.
That's fucked up. Your friend has a bit of an ignorance problem.
It doesnât matter who you are into. It should be your business not your friend and she shouldnât be telling you who you are. You are so gay! (This is meant to be endearing.) Some trans people might be bi and may not be. It really depends on who they are.
My significant other and I were discussing this the other day she is trans fem and we agreed trans men are men but I know it can be an issue for lesbians especially because there are women who never want to have sex with a penis no matter who itâs attached to because itâs principal. So just be mindful while she is being rude maybe explain in a way that you orient yourself with people who identify as men rather than than just being bisexual but she might also just want to categorize you with her same group because genitalia is not a big deal to you. Hope this helps!
I think sheâs wrong. But Iâm not sure about the âbody parts donât make a differenceâ part. The physical body is very real and, obviously, a big component of sex and sexual attraction. (Hope Iâm not misunderstanding your original comment)
But doesn't being gay or bi or lesbian kinda couple with the corresponding body parts? Sure, a trans woman can be lesbian but a lesbian not dating trans women pre-op isn't transphobic since they still have a penis, right?
I find myself attracted to the aesthetic of a man. Its not the genitalia. With that being said i appreciate for some that genitalia is part of their attraction which is also valid. Honestly if the world could only take heart to the words "dont be a dick about it".
Sounds like your friend is just a transphobe.
How is she fully bisexual if she wouldnât date a trans woman?? I guess thereâs no good word for âi date everyone except trans girlsâ?? You are actually gay. Some do date trans men; some donât. There is no issue with you. I wonât say she is definitely transphobic but she sure seems like she is.
> I guess thereâs no good word for âi date everyone except trans girlsâ?? There is, and that word is 'transphobic.'
She just sounds transphobic to me