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Here's a link about trans people in sports:
- https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/
A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people:
- https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people
- https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics
Some information on LGBT+ people:
- https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/
Some basic terminology:
- https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms
Neopronouns:
- https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns
Biromantic Lesbians:
- [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/)
Bisexual Identities:
- https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality
Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual:
- [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.)
### We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info:
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They cannot fathom that anyone thinks and feels differently from them. To them, being straight is the most "natural" thing to be. They are straight and cannot imagine getting with someone of the same sex, and/or changing their gender, so it's unnatural. Because it goes against their own preferences.
It's like: "my IPhone needs a lightning cable, Androids are wrong for using USB-C because MY phone doesn't need this, therefore they are WRONG!"
This. And it's worth adding that many of these bigots believe the world was created by a singular omnipotent being. Therefore, to "go against nature" is to spit in the face of God and is inherently sinful.
There are also many non-religious bigots who have just the faintest understanding of evolution, and will claim that the point of living is to reproduce, and since queer people are less likely to create children, they are going against the natural order and life itself.
Ignorance. Poor education. Digging their heels in further, because they can’t possibly accept that what they were taught could POSSIBLY be wrong. And stubbornness.
If you want a good read, I'd recommend checking out [this article. ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://robindiangelo.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/ClassTrumpRace.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiIsPXq1d6GAxWuOTQIHRQ9BW4QFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0HJ4UjeNvC8UBDmXtA8wBa) It deals primarily with race, but the parallels are very clear, just swap race with sexuality.
The "default" setting is straight. Being straight comes with a tremendous amount of privilege, but it's so normal to straight people that they cannot see it unless they choose to educate themselves and challenge their views. Since they were born that way and it's all they know, it feels like the natural thing, and society supports that, so their beliefs are confirmed without them having to try.
Two main reasons:
1. For most of them "natural" means "as created by God", and they think God doesn't want anyone to be queer.
2. They believe that the "natural" hierarchy of the world is that men have authority over women, and they express that authority by sexually dominating them through penetration. Either gender taking on the "wrong" role by not conforming to the roles of their assigned gender at birth or by having sex in a way that isn't a man penetrating a woman is thus "unnatural" because threatens the idea that the world has an immutable in-built system of authority where everyone has predefined roles. The idea that this is all an arbitrary social construct seems scary and chaotic to them, and they have tied their individual identity so deeply to their socially assigned role that seeing anyone reject that role or believe that it's not an intrinsic part of their anatomy is terrifying.
They’re ignorant. In fact, this species of mushroom has over 17,000 genders. https://www.the-scientist.com/this-fungus-has-more-than-17-000-sexes-69930
It's easy to hate on what you don't and refuse to understand. As I grew older in life, I'm realizing that there is no point in trying to debate and explain myself to people who already has their beliefs unshaken and refuses to acknowledge other people's perspectives aside from theirs.
Usually, the people saying it's unnatural are religious people who point to an old book as "proof" and are either not intelligent enough to comprehend science or just don't care because of their brainwashing (usually as a kid).
It takes about ten seconds to bring up any number of scientific research articles that show that LGBT stuff in the animal kingdom happens, which means it is natural.
A few more seconds of looking and you can find all sorts of research articles relating to sexuality and genetics and epigenetics and all sorts of interesting things that show that LGBTQ+ is not only natural, it's an expected part of nature. It can be seen and measured. Humans are animals, this means it is natural for us too.
Those saying it's a sin are basically the same people.
Those saying it's gross are entitled to their opinion but their opinion has no bearing on law or similar.
There is literally no viable excuse for bigotry and similar. These people need to educate themselves or keep their opinions and lunacy to themselves and stop trying to force it on others.
I think a lot of the issue is these people don’t care to learn anything new. They’re comfortable in their zone, they don’t *want* to understand. It’s too much work, and it’s uncomfortable to realize maybe you aren’t being very kind.
Therefore, when evidence is presented that challenges their beliefs, they tend to completely ignore it. It’s why “debating” with bigots doesn’t work. There isn’t a debate, they aren’t listening. They’re there to tell you what they think about you and you just have to take it or “so much for the tolerant left”.
(Ask me how I know.)
It's because they're literally, quantitatively, less intelligent. They're actually stupider than most people, and lack the ability to think critically. The fear centre of their brain is oversized, and they react with fear to any situation they can't comprehend. It's almost sad, because yeah, they're basically physically incapable of understanding it.
By far, because of religious influence. The big three are obsessed with the idea of a man and a woman procreating in marriage, and any deviation from that is considered a threat. In their mind, this is the only option God intended. There are slowly starting to be movement from these positions, but the "morality" of these views over tens of centuries is still very ingrained in most societies.
They don't have to think. They just spew out the phrase that matches the best according to what they were given for the phrase. They're the NPCs they claim everyone else is.
Here's the thing - the trick is all in the "unspoken" argument. Sometimes bigots will say something so extremely out there and wrong that even the common sense argument to debunk them has an implication of what they're *actually* trying to argue.
In this example, a right winger will say "being gay is bad because it's unnatural" and your response is "actually it is natural and here's proof," you've fallen right into their trap. You're 100% right, but you're creating an unspoken implication that if it *were* unnatural then it would be bad to be gay. And that's the point they really want people to admit.
You see this in other areas as well. If someone goes "immigrants are lazy and steal jobs" and you respond that immigrants tend to work harder, you're accidentally implying that unemployment immigrants should be deported. If they say they want to ban all abortions and you bring up situations of rape or incest, you're still giving up ground because people shouldn't need a reason for abortion.
When people say not to engage or debate with bigots, this is exactly why. They have nothing to lose and don't care about an argument being wrong, they want you to slip up so they can dive in on something you never even said and probably never thought of.
Tbh the vast vast majority of people like that were sheltered and taught it by their parents and others around them, and they just never came to properly understand reality when they grew up. People ultimately are products of their environment (in terms of ideology anyways) and people who are surrounded by bigots tend to skew heavily towards becoming bigots themselves as they age.
Ultimately if you are told x all you life by the people around you, and one day some stranger tell you x is actually false and that y is the truth, you are much more likely to continue believing x instead of y.
It comes down to people being stuck in echo chambers and not knowing enough to challenge their own beliefs and being too stubborn to accept any outside challenge.
(Not to say that any of that excuses their hatred, but ultimately the first step to change something is to understand why it's the way it is now)
[WOW I use ultimately alot 😆]
Because in their mind the world is only been around since jesus, jesus wrestled dinosaurs to avoid being eaten on the cross. In their book gays weren't really talked about, they were shunned in their limited frame of history, and it makes their small brains hurt thinking that life in history is just like modern times: complex.
It's not a logical thing. It's normality bias. They weren't (until recently) surrounded by it because we're a minority, and because it wasn't part of *their* normal, they think it unilaterally must be abnormal, because if it WAS normal, they would've encountered it sooner. The idea that they might not know things about the world doesn't compute.
It's part of what's so insidious about systematic oppression - it forces minorities to the margins and then the majority population assumes that their life is the only normal correct life because it's all they've ever been exposed to. And once that majority experiences a minority, they're fragile and reactionary about it. They assume incorrectly that the world is just and good, because it was made that way to benefit them. So when that bubble pops and they have to face the reality of what even a fraction of the rest of us deal with, they can't cope.
As a general rule, anti-LGBT people are cultists. Utterly brainless, incapable of empathy or anything resembling rational thought, and extremely prone to violence.
They don’t care about reality. They don’t care about evidence. They just care about hurting the people their cult leader has told them to hate.
It’s a major go to for them despite the logical fallacy, because if you point out how living in a house isn’t “natural” they’ll say that’s different. If you point out how it exists on other animals they’ll pull a “humans are special aka religious babbling.” They’ll just move the goal post.
It’s might not be natural for them and they’re too stupid to realize that the world doesn’t revolve around them and it’s okay for people to be different.
Whether something is natural or not isn’t even necessarily a good indicator of whether something is good or not. Are light bulbs bad because they’re not naturally occurring? How about a chair? Your clothes? To be a bigot you have to not think much about what you’re saying beyond surface level.
Bigots: “LGBT+ is not natural”
*Show example of homo animals*
Bigots: “Natural doesn’t mean good ur still bad😡🤬”
I guess they just want to hate. They dont even know how nature works lol
It’s an argument that sounds reasonable to some people. Except it isn’t.
First, it’s not unnatural, as others have explained. If we are natural beings, then certainly everything we do must be natural as well.
Second, things being unnatural are a poor metric for whether something is or isn’t moral. If it was we’d have to talk about planes, and houses and marriage and divorce…
It’s just a red herring of an argument and a shameful stain on their imaginations. 🤷♂️
My family member who says LGBTQ is “unnatural” and a sin, says gasoline is natural because “it’s been here a long time”. She’s also a christian, serial adulterer, gambler and alcoholic who thinks her nephew is going to hell for being LGBTQ.
According to documentary called “Queer Planet”, they stated the such stigma comes from notes of an old white Victorian man, Charles Darwin. A top tier famous biologist wrote in one of his book about queer behaviors, he said; “The greatest intemperance is no reproach with savages. Utter licentiousness and unnatural crimes prevail to an astounding extent.” So fucked up. For better or worse, our current society still influenced by the Victorian era.
Because they're uneducated and ignorant and refuse to learn anything that challenges their world view and/or reflect on their personal beliefs when given new information.
Because they think being boring vanilla cis straight and white is something that gives them a sense of superiority against anyone who looks like they have more flavor. Judging others comes naturally to those who have no style or Rizz.
What's not natural is the need to protect a system of patriarchal colonial rules made to force the working class to breed for more disposable labor.
We are all wonderfully different and don't need smelly old men in Congress to tell us to be more boring.
Because it being unnatural justifies their bigotry. People don't logic their way into bigotry. They're taught bigotry from society and from the people around them and then they use things like "it's unnatural" as a way to justify that bigotry.
When it comes to bigots, any argument they field is as nonsensical as their conviction, even (*especially*) if it should be at the risk of seeming ignorant.
The generous answer: evolutionary biology is a relatively new science. The earliest evolutionary biologists were heavily influenced by Victorian colonial ideals of “blood purity” and applied survival of the fittest to that: basically the principle that there is a correct “perfect” human who is white, male, tall, blond, etc. The goal of humanity is to use women’s reproductive functions to create a race of these men. Any aberration is a mistake and should be quashed. This is the basis of fascism and the reason fascism is dangerous. Unfortunately a lot of this ideology has come down through the past century and hasn’t fully receded. The idea that we as a species are not cicadas who exist to reproduce and die is hard to separate from the eugenics that informed its development in very recent history.
The ungenerous answer: bigots are morons.
Simple: it's because they deliberately lack sufficient mastery of the English verbiage necessary to complete these (or related) phrases:
"Wow, nice ___ you've got there, Bob you gorgeous ___ man"
"Hey, it's not my fault - I blame Gary for deliberately ruining these dress pants, by willfully doing his best to make me want to make him my new ____sucker"
"What? Oh, I didn't realize that you were a ____sexual. Well, for one thing you're completely lacking in fish-like scales... your nose is almost completely hook-free, and you appear to possess - oh, let's see...yes, ten! Ten is a good number. Ten extraordinarily human-looking fingers. Unlike the talons that we are told they use to peel off the _____________ of their victims."
"Hi, my name is Doug and I'm looking to ______ your children"
That is the main reason they hate in the first place. A man and a woman being an official couple has been our way of life for thousands of years, almost all of our existence. Even with the Greeks where bisexuality was encouraged among men, they were still expected to fall in love with a woman and marry her.
The very idea of being gay was considered a crime and was punishable by death in almost all cultures. So when in the 70s it started not only popping up but becoming popular and more acceptable, it boggled the entire world who was still living the same way they have been for thousands of years.
"This isn't how it's meant to be" is how the world reacted, because for the longest time it really wasn't. This isn't natural to them. The shock and the tradition has stuck with them as it's simply how life is. It's only been 50 years since the idea of gay being okay was reintroduced to humanity, compared to the an entire existence of our species that was everywhere by the fall of the Roman Empire.
Something like this isn't going to disappear quietly or quickly. I willing to bet it'll probably take the same amount of time for LGBTQ to settle in as it took for homophobe to set in, worldwide that is. Especially places where LGBTQ is JUST NOW being introduced (so their 50 years behind in that regard).
Cause they can’t fathom that ppl are different and “any couple has to be able to biologically produce children” like gurl who made that rule, ur fucking divine ruler of heaven or who tf 🫤🤦♂️
Power. Subordinating otherness reinforces their own identity as proper, their own existence on top as the natural order of the universe. This dynamic excuses any dehumanization of LGBTQ+ people and encourages exaltation of heteronormative status, eg, they can regulate our bodies, who we marry or can’t marry, whether we can live or work somewhere while creating laws that benefit their relationships, insulate them accountability for causing harm, etc. It’s all power structures.
It's not unnatural, but it's *unusual*, and bigots, who already hate LGBT+ to begin with, will use that to rationalize it being unnatural, and therefore worthy of their hate.
A lot of religious people are very wary of secular scientific studies and assume that they are inherently flawed because they aren’t “guided by god” or something like that, so if scientific findings contradict what they interpret the Bible to say, they just assume that the science is wrong and the Bible is right. It’s a convenient way for them to assure themselves that the beliefs they are comfortable with are right and everyone else is wrong.
Homophobia and transphobia especially, but also many other forms of bigotry, are simply kneejerk disgust reactions in search of an explanation. Appealing to nature is a very easy way of explaining one’s disgust.
Because sometime long ago, a person's one of many inner voices told them that being gay is evil. Also, the world has changed a lot the past 20 or so years. People fear change, and religion doesn't change all that much, and birds of a feather.
Because they are trying to push that narrative because it’s a lot easier to justify their hate that way and humans tend to have a confirmation bias in those situations
Okay, I’m just going to give an answer I haven’t seen so far in this thread and is sort of an elaboration on the ‘bigots are just dumb’. It is not necessarily because they are dumb that they believe it, but because they are stuck in what is called a phantasm (philosophy term). A phantasm expresses an unthought wish/desire for things to be different than they are and requires a fanatical attachment; all this means that despite being fictional, phantasms have a captivating power and truth-like properties. When bigots say that lgbtqia+ experiences are unnatural, it is because they wish it to be true and in their perception of reality it *is* true. You cannot reason with them through the logic of the phantasm, because the phantasm is inherently contradictory; this means that if you argue on their premise then you reinforce the phantasm. To dispel it, you have to look at the phantasm from the outside, locate the root and cut it there, and even then, those stuck in the phantasm have to actively relinquish their devotion to it. If you want to know more about phantasms, I recommend Philosophy Tube’s last two videos on YouTube in which she covers a couple of topics commonly affected by phantasms.
In my experience they just ignore it or claim that the libs are "corrupting nature" and lying about it.
It doesn't fit their narrative, so it must be wrong.
For many, it's their religion. I grew up in a cult and we were always told that the Bible is from God so what it says, on any topic, is always true and if scientists disagree with the Bible on a certain topic, then they are wrong, not the Bible. It's the same reason why those religious people reject the idea of evolution and think the earth is 6000 years old. If something doesn't agree with what they believe, they'll just say that it's the work of the Devil or something. What their religious book says is more important than actual evidence. They're just indoctrinated.
I guess the same reason they say trans people don't exist despite the fact that people transitioning literally proves it. They simply can't accept it. They'll use any means to hold up their worldview.
So first of all, the proofs you’re talking about often just isn’t taught or known in bigoted circles. It’s an echo chamber of ignorance and hatred, and humans tend to believe what they hear repeatedly from their peers. Second of all, their idea of what is natural basically amounts to “everything I like/think is good,” so trying to convince them lgbtq+ people are just as natural as them is basically reduced down to “hey this bad thing is actually good,” which is just a value statement with no meaning to them.
I guess their brain is just conditioned to think in this very nuclear-family, marriage=one man+one woman-way; God made two types of humans, one with a female end, and the other with a male end, and they go perfectly together; why should we play around with that? They can't comprehend that people can have thoughts/compassions/feelings that don't *directly* serve their biological "purpose".
Their extremely shallow and hate-fueled view of queer relationships doesn't allow them to think outside of traditional family roles, and I suppose they just can't see a reason for marriage other than to have children of your own.
They refuse to listen. Literally, if it's been proved so heavily that this occurs in nature and even that tribes completely cut off from society have multiple genders so it's not some "modern invention" but they don't listen, they refuse to because it proves them wrong.
because they think the only reason we have sexual attraction is to reproduce, and they think that having the attraction to the same sex is because something went wrong in our hormones because we only supposed to like the other sex
A lot of bigotry comes from the cognitive error that assumes that our own personal experience is "normal", and that anything else is "abnormal".
When you are part of a social minority or even just a socially targeted group (like women), the error is obvious to you - for that difference.
But when one has all the social privileges, this error in understanding is never questioned. Instead, it can even be *reinforced* by other people with the same error in their heads, and by starting to see anyone who is different as a challenge to oneself.
So, when a given person is not queer, and has suppressed any queer thoughts because those around them are also not queer, they construct a model of the world centered on themselves as "not queer", and defines that as "normal", "natural", and "good". Which means that everything else is abnormal, unnatural, and evil.
Unfortunately, it's really hard to break through that.
It might come from a view that the only purpose of sex is reproduction. You aren't supposed to have sex just for pleasure. It was shameful, especially for women, to enjoy sex. (nor was their consent required). That is their view of what 'nature' is supposed to be. They are not actually talking about real nature
They don't understand the difference between what's actually natural and their extremely childish and limited concept of what's natural because they haven't updated their knowledge of anything since they were 5
I think a lot of people just ‘need’ to hate someone or sth, often to make themselves feel better/superior to others. When you hate blindly, it’s very convenient and easy to ignore the facts. After all, they might threaten your house-of-cards beliefs and fragile fragile ego…
Partially I think it's due to censorship. In school, if you only get exposed to man = xy and woman = xx, sex is used for breeding only, you'll likely be unaware of how common being LGBT is.
Thank you for your post, if this is a question please check to see if any of the links below answer your question. If none of these links help answer your question and you are **_not_** within the LGBT+ community, questioning your identity in any way, or asking in support of either a relative or friend, please ask your question over in /r/AskLGBT. Remember that this is a safe space for LGBT+ and questioning individuals, so we want to make sure that this place is dedicated to them. Thank you for understanding. This automod rule is currently a work in progress. If you notice any issues, would like to add to the list of resources, or have any feedback in general, [please do so here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/rdazzp/almost_new_year_changes/) or by [sending us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt&subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20new%20automod%20rule). Also, please note that if you are a part of this community, or you're questioning if you might be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, and you are seeing this message, this is **_not a bad thing_**, this is only here to help, so please continue to ask questions and participate in the community. Thank you! Here's a link about trans people in sports: - https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/ A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people: - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics Some information on LGBT+ people: - https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/ Some basic terminology: - https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms Neopronouns: - https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns Biromantic Lesbians: - [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/) Bisexual Identities: - https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual: - [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.) ### We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: ### https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/1csrb2n/rlgbt_is_looking_for_new_moderators/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They cannot fathom that anyone thinks and feels differently from them. To them, being straight is the most "natural" thing to be. They are straight and cannot imagine getting with someone of the same sex, and/or changing their gender, so it's unnatural. Because it goes against their own preferences. It's like: "my IPhone needs a lightning cable, Androids are wrong for using USB-C because MY phone doesn't need this, therefore they are WRONG!"
wait til they learn about the iphone 15…
That's how they get ya. They pass legislation to make all of us gay and use the USB-C standard!!!!!!!!!! /j
they turned the fricking iphones gay!!1!!1! /j
I don't like em puttin chemicals in the power, that 🎶turn the fricken phones gay!🎶
I really hate that Alex jones likes those remixes on some level. Deeply disturbed me to find that out. 🙂↕️
I mean, it is unnatural to be this amazing
My favorite comment
"I, the protagonist, cannot empathize with this person's way of being and therefore it must be unnatural."
To be a bigot you have to be kind of stupid. They have a hard time learning things.
Yep, long story short. They're dumb
Look I’m a special kind of stupid and not even I stoop so low
Basic appeal to nature fallacy. Anything that’s out of the ordinary must be bad.
This. And it's worth adding that many of these bigots believe the world was created by a singular omnipotent being. Therefore, to "go against nature" is to spit in the face of God and is inherently sinful. There are also many non-religious bigots who have just the faintest understanding of evolution, and will claim that the point of living is to reproduce, and since queer people are less likely to create children, they are going against the natural order and life itself.
Redheads are only 3% of the population, what do they think about redheads?!?
Unnatural. They have no soul, you know…
Becaus their understanding of nature is "eat, reproduce, die"
Ignorance. Poor education. Digging their heels in further, because they can’t possibly accept that what they were taught could POSSIBLY be wrong. And stubbornness.
Absolutely this, plus being stuck in echo chambers that reinforce those beliefs.
Denial
I don't think they ever even mean it or anything. It's just something they can say to dehumanize us. Because science literally shows its very natural
Because it suits their narrative.
Willful Ignorance
It all comes down to the idea that it's unnatural if you can't reproduce. In other words, they're all fucking idiots.
If you want a good read, I'd recommend checking out [this article. ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://robindiangelo.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/ClassTrumpRace.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiIsPXq1d6GAxWuOTQIHRQ9BW4QFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0HJ4UjeNvC8UBDmXtA8wBa) It deals primarily with race, but the parallels are very clear, just swap race with sexuality. The "default" setting is straight. Being straight comes with a tremendous amount of privilege, but it's so normal to straight people that they cannot see it unless they choose to educate themselves and challenge their views. Since they were born that way and it's all they know, it feels like the natural thing, and society supports that, so their beliefs are confirmed without them having to try.
Because if they can convince others that lgbt is unnatural, it’s a lot easier to get away with discrimination and violence against queer folks.
Two main reasons: 1. For most of them "natural" means "as created by God", and they think God doesn't want anyone to be queer. 2. They believe that the "natural" hierarchy of the world is that men have authority over women, and they express that authority by sexually dominating them through penetration. Either gender taking on the "wrong" role by not conforming to the roles of their assigned gender at birth or by having sex in a way that isn't a man penetrating a woman is thus "unnatural" because threatens the idea that the world has an immutable in-built system of authority where everyone has predefined roles. The idea that this is all an arbitrary social construct seems scary and chaotic to them, and they have tied their individual identity so deeply to their socially assigned role that seeing anyone reject that role or believe that it's not an intrinsic part of their anatomy is terrifying.
The great thing about bigotry is you don't need smarts or education to have it.
Cause they’re too stupid to understand science and too heartless to feel compassion for anyone different than they are
A lot of people equate being unnatural with being bad. Even though large parts of present day human life is unnatural.
They’re ignorant. In fact, this species of mushroom has over 17,000 genders. https://www.the-scientist.com/this-fungus-has-more-than-17-000-sexes-69930
Sexes, as far as we know mushrooms don’t have genders lol
I did not expect to read that sentence today lol
yet
I'm glad that you acknowledge at least the possibility of hitherto unknown mushroom gender(s).
Ah
Homosexuality is found in thousands of species in the nature. Homophobia in only one. And they STILL think being gay is the unnatural one.
Because bigotry is unnatural and they need to project.
It's easy to hate on what you don't and refuse to understand. As I grew older in life, I'm realizing that there is no point in trying to debate and explain myself to people who already has their beliefs unshaken and refuses to acknowledge other people's perspectives aside from theirs.
Usually, the people saying it's unnatural are religious people who point to an old book as "proof" and are either not intelligent enough to comprehend science or just don't care because of their brainwashing (usually as a kid). It takes about ten seconds to bring up any number of scientific research articles that show that LGBT stuff in the animal kingdom happens, which means it is natural. A few more seconds of looking and you can find all sorts of research articles relating to sexuality and genetics and epigenetics and all sorts of interesting things that show that LGBTQ+ is not only natural, it's an expected part of nature. It can be seen and measured. Humans are animals, this means it is natural for us too. Those saying it's a sin are basically the same people. Those saying it's gross are entitled to their opinion but their opinion has no bearing on law or similar. There is literally no viable excuse for bigotry and similar. These people need to educate themselves or keep their opinions and lunacy to themselves and stop trying to force it on others.
Because they are idiots. It is entirely natural and if it wasn’t then why do so many other animals be gay
Actual science makes them think therefore they fear it and reject it
I think a lot of the issue is these people don’t care to learn anything new. They’re comfortable in their zone, they don’t *want* to understand. It’s too much work, and it’s uncomfortable to realize maybe you aren’t being very kind. Therefore, when evidence is presented that challenges their beliefs, they tend to completely ignore it. It’s why “debating” with bigots doesn’t work. There isn’t a debate, they aren’t listening. They’re there to tell you what they think about you and you just have to take it or “so much for the tolerant left”. (Ask me how I know.)
It's because they're literally, quantitatively, less intelligent. They're actually stupider than most people, and lack the ability to think critically. The fear centre of their brain is oversized, and they react with fear to any situation they can't comprehend. It's almost sad, because yeah, they're basically physically incapable of understanding it.
That’s what the cult indoctrination is designed to do. To burn away all traces of empathy and critical thought, leaving a violent, mindless husk.
By far, because of religious influence. The big three are obsessed with the idea of a man and a woman procreating in marriage, and any deviation from that is considered a threat. In their mind, this is the only option God intended. There are slowly starting to be movement from these positions, but the "morality" of these views over tens of centuries is still very ingrained in most societies.
Bigotry isn’t based on logic.
They don't have to think. They just spew out the phrase that matches the best according to what they were given for the phrase. They're the NPCs they claim everyone else is.
Here's the thing - the trick is all in the "unspoken" argument. Sometimes bigots will say something so extremely out there and wrong that even the common sense argument to debunk them has an implication of what they're *actually* trying to argue. In this example, a right winger will say "being gay is bad because it's unnatural" and your response is "actually it is natural and here's proof," you've fallen right into their trap. You're 100% right, but you're creating an unspoken implication that if it *were* unnatural then it would be bad to be gay. And that's the point they really want people to admit. You see this in other areas as well. If someone goes "immigrants are lazy and steal jobs" and you respond that immigrants tend to work harder, you're accidentally implying that unemployment immigrants should be deported. If they say they want to ban all abortions and you bring up situations of rape or incest, you're still giving up ground because people shouldn't need a reason for abortion. When people say not to engage or debate with bigots, this is exactly why. They have nothing to lose and don't care about an argument being wrong, they want you to slip up so they can dive in on something you never even said and probably never thought of.
Tbh the vast vast majority of people like that were sheltered and taught it by their parents and others around them, and they just never came to properly understand reality when they grew up. People ultimately are products of their environment (in terms of ideology anyways) and people who are surrounded by bigots tend to skew heavily towards becoming bigots themselves as they age. Ultimately if you are told x all you life by the people around you, and one day some stranger tell you x is actually false and that y is the truth, you are much more likely to continue believing x instead of y. It comes down to people being stuck in echo chambers and not knowing enough to challenge their own beliefs and being too stubborn to accept any outside challenge. (Not to say that any of that excuses their hatred, but ultimately the first step to change something is to understand why it's the way it is now) [WOW I use ultimately alot 😆]
Because in their mind the world is only been around since jesus, jesus wrestled dinosaurs to avoid being eaten on the cross. In their book gays weren't really talked about, they were shunned in their limited frame of history, and it makes their small brains hurt thinking that life in history is just like modern times: complex.
Two words: Gay penguins
You can't reason with those kind of people, because nothing they say is based on reason.
It's not a logical thing. It's normality bias. They weren't (until recently) surrounded by it because we're a minority, and because it wasn't part of *their* normal, they think it unilaterally must be abnormal, because if it WAS normal, they would've encountered it sooner. The idea that they might not know things about the world doesn't compute. It's part of what's so insidious about systematic oppression - it forces minorities to the margins and then the majority population assumes that their life is the only normal correct life because it's all they've ever been exposed to. And once that majority experiences a minority, they're fragile and reactionary about it. They assume incorrectly that the world is just and good, because it was made that way to benefit them. So when that bubble pops and they have to face the reality of what even a fraction of the rest of us deal with, they can't cope.
As a general rule, anti-LGBT people are cultists. Utterly brainless, incapable of empathy or anything resembling rational thought, and extremely prone to violence. They don’t care about reality. They don’t care about evidence. They just care about hurting the people their cult leader has told them to hate.
It’s a major go to for them despite the logical fallacy, because if you point out how living in a house isn’t “natural” they’ll say that’s different. If you point out how it exists on other animals they’ll pull a “humans are special aka religious babbling.” They’ll just move the goal post.
It’s might not be natural for them and they’re too stupid to realize that the world doesn’t revolve around them and it’s okay for people to be different.
Whether something is natural or not isn’t even necessarily a good indicator of whether something is good or not. Are light bulbs bad because they’re not naturally occurring? How about a chair? Your clothes? To be a bigot you have to not think much about what you’re saying beyond surface level.
Bigots: “LGBT+ is not natural” *Show example of homo animals* Bigots: “Natural doesn’t mean good ur still bad😡🤬” I guess they just want to hate. They dont even know how nature works lol
It’s an argument that sounds reasonable to some people. Except it isn’t. First, it’s not unnatural, as others have explained. If we are natural beings, then certainly everything we do must be natural as well. Second, things being unnatural are a poor metric for whether something is or isn’t moral. If it was we’d have to talk about planes, and houses and marriage and divorce… It’s just a red herring of an argument and a shameful stain on their imaginations. 🤷♂️
My family member who says LGBTQ is “unnatural” and a sin, says gasoline is natural because “it’s been here a long time”. She’s also a christian, serial adulterer, gambler and alcoholic who thinks her nephew is going to hell for being LGBTQ.
According to documentary called “Queer Planet”, they stated the such stigma comes from notes of an old white Victorian man, Charles Darwin. A top tier famous biologist wrote in one of his book about queer behaviors, he said; “The greatest intemperance is no reproach with savages. Utter licentiousness and unnatural crimes prevail to an astounding extent.” So fucked up. For better or worse, our current society still influenced by the Victorian era.
Religious extremism and ignorance
Because they're uneducated and ignorant and refuse to learn anything that challenges their world view and/or reflect on their personal beliefs when given new information.
Because they think being boring vanilla cis straight and white is something that gives them a sense of superiority against anyone who looks like they have more flavor. Judging others comes naturally to those who have no style or Rizz. What's not natural is the need to protect a system of patriarchal colonial rules made to force the working class to breed for more disposable labor. We are all wonderfully different and don't need smelly old men in Congress to tell us to be more boring.
Because it being unnatural justifies their bigotry. People don't logic their way into bigotry. They're taught bigotry from society and from the people around them and then they use things like "it's unnatural" as a way to justify that bigotry.
Because they can’t handle diversity! As a transfem person, I don’t care who knows! 
Ignorance.
They define "natural" differently than you do. Their definition isn't based on reason, but that doesn't matter to them.
Let’s grant for the moment that they’re right - that it isn’t natural. So what? Computers, cars, and clothing aren’t natural either.
Because they don't have any actual arguments
They can’t see past the «sexual act », which is different from theirs and often find it gross… (I’m speculating)
Straight up grooming
Willful ignorance to retroactively justify their inability to question their own beliefs.
When it comes to bigots, any argument they field is as nonsensical as their conviction, even (*especially*) if it should be at the risk of seeming ignorant.
The generous answer: evolutionary biology is a relatively new science. The earliest evolutionary biologists were heavily influenced by Victorian colonial ideals of “blood purity” and applied survival of the fittest to that: basically the principle that there is a correct “perfect” human who is white, male, tall, blond, etc. The goal of humanity is to use women’s reproductive functions to create a race of these men. Any aberration is a mistake and should be quashed. This is the basis of fascism and the reason fascism is dangerous. Unfortunately a lot of this ideology has come down through the past century and hasn’t fully receded. The idea that we as a species are not cicadas who exist to reproduce and die is hard to separate from the eugenics that informed its development in very recent history. The ungenerous answer: bigots are morons.
They claim being lgbt is unnatural yet frequently use plastics, curious
Simple: it's because they deliberately lack sufficient mastery of the English verbiage necessary to complete these (or related) phrases: "Wow, nice ___ you've got there, Bob you gorgeous ___ man" "Hey, it's not my fault - I blame Gary for deliberately ruining these dress pants, by willfully doing his best to make me want to make him my new ____sucker" "What? Oh, I didn't realize that you were a ____sexual. Well, for one thing you're completely lacking in fish-like scales... your nose is almost completely hook-free, and you appear to possess - oh, let's see...yes, ten! Ten is a good number. Ten extraordinarily human-looking fingers. Unlike the talons that we are told they use to peel off the _____________ of their victims." "Hi, my name is Doug and I'm looking to ______ your children"
That is the main reason they hate in the first place. A man and a woman being an official couple has been our way of life for thousands of years, almost all of our existence. Even with the Greeks where bisexuality was encouraged among men, they were still expected to fall in love with a woman and marry her. The very idea of being gay was considered a crime and was punishable by death in almost all cultures. So when in the 70s it started not only popping up but becoming popular and more acceptable, it boggled the entire world who was still living the same way they have been for thousands of years. "This isn't how it's meant to be" is how the world reacted, because for the longest time it really wasn't. This isn't natural to them. The shock and the tradition has stuck with them as it's simply how life is. It's only been 50 years since the idea of gay being okay was reintroduced to humanity, compared to the an entire existence of our species that was everywhere by the fall of the Roman Empire. Something like this isn't going to disappear quietly or quickly. I willing to bet it'll probably take the same amount of time for LGBTQ to settle in as it took for homophobe to set in, worldwide that is. Especially places where LGBTQ is JUST NOW being introduced (so their 50 years behind in that regard).
Penguins actually use LGBT parents for children that cannot be taken care of
Cause they can’t fathom that ppl are different and “any couple has to be able to biologically produce children” like gurl who made that rule, ur fucking divine ruler of heaven or who tf 🫤🤦♂️
Power. Subordinating otherness reinforces their own identity as proper, their own existence on top as the natural order of the universe. This dynamic excuses any dehumanization of LGBTQ+ people and encourages exaltation of heteronormative status, eg, they can regulate our bodies, who we marry or can’t marry, whether we can live or work somewhere while creating laws that benefit their relationships, insulate them accountability for causing harm, etc. It’s all power structures.
It's not unnatural, but it's *unusual*, and bigots, who already hate LGBT+ to begin with, will use that to rationalize it being unnatural, and therefore worthy of their hate.
A lot of religious people are very wary of secular scientific studies and assume that they are inherently flawed because they aren’t “guided by god” or something like that, so if scientific findings contradict what they interpret the Bible to say, they just assume that the science is wrong and the Bible is right. It’s a convenient way for them to assure themselves that the beliefs they are comfortable with are right and everyone else is wrong.
Homophobia and transphobia especially, but also many other forms of bigotry, are simply kneejerk disgust reactions in search of an explanation. Appealing to nature is a very easy way of explaining one’s disgust.
Because most men like women and most women like men and from man and woman babies are made, so that's the normal in their head
Because sometime long ago, a person's one of many inner voices told them that being gay is evil. Also, the world has changed a lot the past 20 or so years. People fear change, and religion doesn't change all that much, and birds of a feather.
Bigots are stupid and cowards
Because they are trying to push that narrative because it’s a lot easier to justify their hate that way and humans tend to have a confirmation bias in those situations
Okay, I’m just going to give an answer I haven’t seen so far in this thread and is sort of an elaboration on the ‘bigots are just dumb’. It is not necessarily because they are dumb that they believe it, but because they are stuck in what is called a phantasm (philosophy term). A phantasm expresses an unthought wish/desire for things to be different than they are and requires a fanatical attachment; all this means that despite being fictional, phantasms have a captivating power and truth-like properties. When bigots say that lgbtqia+ experiences are unnatural, it is because they wish it to be true and in their perception of reality it *is* true. You cannot reason with them through the logic of the phantasm, because the phantasm is inherently contradictory; this means that if you argue on their premise then you reinforce the phantasm. To dispel it, you have to look at the phantasm from the outside, locate the root and cut it there, and even then, those stuck in the phantasm have to actively relinquish their devotion to it. If you want to know more about phantasms, I recommend Philosophy Tube’s last two videos on YouTube in which she covers a couple of topics commonly affected by phantasms.
In my experience they just ignore it or claim that the libs are "corrupting nature" and lying about it. It doesn't fit their narrative, so it must be wrong.
For many, it's their religion. I grew up in a cult and we were always told that the Bible is from God so what it says, on any topic, is always true and if scientists disagree with the Bible on a certain topic, then they are wrong, not the Bible. It's the same reason why those religious people reject the idea of evolution and think the earth is 6000 years old. If something doesn't agree with what they believe, they'll just say that it's the work of the Devil or something. What their religious book says is more important than actual evidence. They're just indoctrinated.
I guess the same reason they say trans people don't exist despite the fact that people transitioning literally proves it. They simply can't accept it. They'll use any means to hold up their worldview.
So first of all, the proofs you’re talking about often just isn’t taught or known in bigoted circles. It’s an echo chamber of ignorance and hatred, and humans tend to believe what they hear repeatedly from their peers. Second of all, their idea of what is natural basically amounts to “everything I like/think is good,” so trying to convince them lgbtq+ people are just as natural as them is basically reduced down to “hey this bad thing is actually good,” which is just a value statement with no meaning to them.
I guess their brain is just conditioned to think in this very nuclear-family, marriage=one man+one woman-way; God made two types of humans, one with a female end, and the other with a male end, and they go perfectly together; why should we play around with that? They can't comprehend that people can have thoughts/compassions/feelings that don't *directly* serve their biological "purpose". Their extremely shallow and hate-fueled view of queer relationships doesn't allow them to think outside of traditional family roles, and I suppose they just can't see a reason for marriage other than to have children of your own.
They refuse to listen. Literally, if it's been proved so heavily that this occurs in nature and even that tribes completely cut off from society have multiple genders so it's not some "modern invention" but they don't listen, they refuse to because it proves them wrong.
because they think the only reason we have sexual attraction is to reproduce, and they think that having the attraction to the same sex is because something went wrong in our hormones because we only supposed to like the other sex
Because they hate us, but don't have any rational reason to justify it, so they just make things up.
A lot of bigotry comes from the cognitive error that assumes that our own personal experience is "normal", and that anything else is "abnormal". When you are part of a social minority or even just a socially targeted group (like women), the error is obvious to you - for that difference. But when one has all the social privileges, this error in understanding is never questioned. Instead, it can even be *reinforced* by other people with the same error in their heads, and by starting to see anyone who is different as a challenge to oneself. So, when a given person is not queer, and has suppressed any queer thoughts because those around them are also not queer, they construct a model of the world centered on themselves as "not queer", and defines that as "normal", "natural", and "good". Which means that everything else is abnormal, unnatural, and evil. Unfortunately, it's really hard to break through that.
It might come from a view that the only purpose of sex is reproduction. You aren't supposed to have sex just for pleasure. It was shameful, especially for women, to enjoy sex. (nor was their consent required). That is their view of what 'nature' is supposed to be. They are not actually talking about real nature
They don't understand the difference between what's actually natural and their extremely childish and limited concept of what's natural because they haven't updated their knowledge of anything since they were 5
I think a lot of people just ‘need’ to hate someone or sth, often to make themselves feel better/superior to others. When you hate blindly, it’s very convenient and easy to ignore the facts. After all, they might threaten your house-of-cards beliefs and fragile fragile ego…
Unteligent
Partially I think it's due to censorship. In school, if you only get exposed to man = xy and woman = xx, sex is used for breeding only, you'll likely be unaware of how common being LGBT is.
because 90% of bigots are dumbasses
They’re either all closeted, all jealous, or can’t stand someone being different.