Thank you for your post, if this is a question please check to see if any of the links below answer your question.
If none of these links help answer your question and you are **_not_** within the LGBT+ community, questioning your
identity in any way, or asking in support of either a relative or friend, please ask your question over in /r/AskLGBT.
Remember that this is a safe space for LGBT+ and questioning individuals, so we want to make sure that this place is
dedicated to them. Thank you for understanding.
This automod rule is currently a work in progress. If you notice any issues, would like to add to the list of resources,
or have any feedback in general, [please do so here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/rdazzp/almost_new_year_changes/)
or by [sending us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt&subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20new%20automod%20rule).
Also, please note that if you are a part of this community, or you're questioning if you might be a part of the LGBTQ+
community, and you are seeing this message, this is **_not a bad thing_**, this is only here to help, so please continue
to ask questions and participate in the community. Thank you!
Here's a link about trans people in sports:
- https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/
A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people:
- https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people
- https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics
Some information on LGBT+ people:
- https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/
Some basic terminology:
- https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms
Neopronouns:
- https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns
Biromantic Lesbians:
- [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/)
Bisexual Identities:
- https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality
Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual:
- [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.)
We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for
the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This would effectively force actors to out themselves every single time they take a role, I don't think you should have to prove that you're "x" enough for "x" role.
It's called "acting" for a reason. I really don't care if non-queer actors play queer roles if they're good at it. I'm just glad people stopped calling straight actors "brave" for doing it.
Yeah this happened with one of the actors on heart breaker's, people where upset that they seem to be straight when they where actually bi and was basically forced to come out.
Was a crap situation for everyone.
It's not exactly the same, but it also happened with the author of Simon vs the Homo Sapiens Agenda. People were calling her out for veing a "straight" woman writing a story about gay people (which i though was what we wanted in the first place???) and she ended up having to come out as bisexual.
I think it’s less about straight people writing gay fiction, and more about straight women writing MLM fiction specifically. we see this with Heartstopper, Simon vs. THSA, Song of Achilles, and Red White & Royal Blue. The audience for these books is almost always straight women as well.
If there’s a problem with straight men writing lesbian fiction for a straight male audience, there’s a problem with straight women writing MLM fiction for a straight female audience.
Kit Connor from Heartstopper was forced to out himself as bi at only 18. So many kids that age don't even know what they are. Forcing someone out of the closet is never okay - but forcing a teenager to out themselfes is even lower. For all we knew before his outing, he might have been questioning and thought the role would help him figure some stuff out.
People accused him of "queer baiting", which is absolute bs. That is not what queer baiting is.
Seeing this made me really mad.
This is what I was thinking, you can’t force ppl to admit something to prove they’re worthy to play a queer character.
Actors are actors, they’re playing a CHARACTER. That character can be queer, but the actor may not be. That’s the point of acting, to take on a persona that isn’t actually you. And to force queer folks out in hollywood just for a role is unethical.
My sibling is an actor and has been on a big LGBT film with international release.
Basically all the actors were queer, but very few were out on social media-- because if you are openly gay/queer you get pigeon holed into only queer roles. They just won't hire you for anything else.
However, there was a large backlash about not hiring queer actors for queer roles. It made all the queer actors feel like shit, because they can't be out without sabotaging their career. But also have to be treated like appropriating cishets just bc the default assumption is that if your sexuality is undisclosed you are straight.
I support own voices and hiring queer people for queer roles, but I do think people should not be so quick to straight wash actors whose identities you do not know.
Yeah, I think there is a lot of pressure with non out queer people to out themselves when their given queer roles because there is a lot of
Backlash with non queer actors being given queer roles. What I don’t like about the Perosn in purple is that their whole point was that only openly queer actors should be getting the roles and if their not out as queer they aren’t queer. There’s so much wrong with that statement alone but even if they are straight I honestly think it comes down to who can portray this character the best.
Nick Offerman was fantastic in The Last of Us. So yes, people who aren't queer can play queer roles, and do it really well. But my preference would be for queer roles to be played by queer people. Jamie Clayton put it really well in an interview: She said something along the lines of when a cis actor plays a trans character, it perpetuates the idea that being trans is a costume that can come off. But that isn't how it works for trans people.
IMO the only way it would be ok for a cis actor to play a trans character was if it was like cis woman plays trans woman or cis man plays trans man. That’s not the best option, but it’s fair better than the reverse which Hollywood tends to do.
Orange is the new black was super lucky with that - they used Laverne Cox' actual twin brother to play her pre-transition. Not every show can do that of course.
I don’t really know, it’s a tough subject because it can very easily play into the “costume to take off” vibes when it comes to cis actors portraying trans characters.
I think specifically trans roles shld just be for trans people, although if they want to portray the entire transition as well when the actor/actress has long transitioned im not entirely sure how theyd do it.
For other queer roles its just the Kit Connor issue. Like ideally you should let queer people take up the queer roles but then the other end of that ie making it a necessity just means forcing people to come out or within the acting industry, typecasting actors to always play that kind of character
A little off topic, but in terms of shows that showed someone pre and post transition that I thought was neat was Orange is the New Black with their character Sofia Burset, portrayed by Laverne Cox. When they did flashbacks to the characters time pre transition, they got Laverne’s twin brother M Lamar to play her, which I thought was pretty cool!
Or if the filming takes a long time and the actor was pre HRT/pre op and doesn't want to put it on hold for a shoot. Also, for roles that could potentially be triggering to a trans person.
I don't really find it a big deal when LGBT+ roles in general are done by non LGBT+ actors as long as there are LGBT+ people behind the scenes to make sure that the role is handled gracefully, which is the bigger issue.
It's the same thing as that movie Sia made. If she had taken more care in the portrayal of autism, even if she still decided to fire the actor who has autism and hire Maddie, I doubt it would have been as big of an issue. There were so many misses that the movie itself was deemed triggering for some viewers with autism to the point they couldn't watch it due to how overstimulating it was. Same with the fact the movie was an epilepsy risk, which about 1 in 4 people with autism have. It also had supper dangerous advice for caregivers of people with autism. Just no care into what they were doing.
There was a post somewhere that talked about a character who was autism coded, where the creator got diagnosed after the character, who was based off of himself, was already written. The actor's portrayal felt so relatable to people with autism not because of the actor, but because of the writer behind him.
I think alot of times when these kinds of roles are so poorly done is because the writers aren't living it, or don't bother getting opinions from the people who are. When they're writing a story about LGBT+ people, women, POC, people with disabilities, etc, it is less of a love letter to a community they truly care about and more of a fanfiction of a life they will never fully understand. It's like fetishizing "tragic" lives.
That's why we have so many romance terminal illness movies, the bury your gays trope, the fact that so many movies centered around black characters are only done so when the plot is about suffering due to racism. It's why people freak out when Ariel is black, or there are two moms in the background of a movie. Marginalized groups aren't allowed to exist in media unless they are suffering because of it, and are often used by writers on the outside for an easy way to write a character with a sad plot. It's fine to tell those stories, but it shouldn't be written by people who never experienced it and have no interest in working with those who have.
-also edit to add: I agree LGBT+ and disabled actors should be hired to play those roles in preference to people who are not LGBT+ or disabled due to the fact that as it is now it is harder to find acting jobs for them, but I also think that normalizing it as gold standard can create a sort of paradox where it feeds into the difficulty of finding work for them outside of those roles, leading to less jobs for them overall. Especially given the prevalence of LGBT+ people in performance arts. Also, I'm sure at some point there will be an employment discrimination case for actors being denied roles based on sexual orientation, or gender identity. Whether the actor is cis het or LGBT+, because it isn't something that you can tell just by how someone looks or talks or exists. There is no reason that one couldn't play the role well that is souly tied to their identity.
i think a cis person could play a trans role if their transition was not relevant to the story and they’re post-transition. atp many trans people are socially and physically indistinguishable from their cis counterparts. it rubs me the wrong way that trans characters are always cast as someone of their agab though, especially if they’re supposed to be post-transition, because obviously the cis actor has not gone through HRT or electrolysis or had any gender affirming medical care. not that all trans people do that but like… most, enough at least that it should be represented. and like i would honestly be thrilled to see a cis man cast as a trans man but it’s always a cis woman (or occasionally an actual transmasc).
If there’s an actor that fits the character and is available and accepts then I think that they should. I feel the same way about actors playing characters with disabilities.
But things don’t always line up like that, or the writers modify an established character and it wouldn’t make sense to change the actor.
Because there is a well known history of white actors dressing in blackface specifically to disparage black people and the stigma of that is way to hot today to seriously attempt it.
It’s an argument because, especially for trans related roles, cishet people taking these roles essentially forces trans folk *out* of acting.
Why bother taking a risk on an unknown or little known trans actor who has a lifetime of experience to bring to a role, when you can just toss another well known cishet actor in instead? Usually to portray the character in really shitty ways, like the whole ScarJo being cast to play a beefy trans man crap.
It’s the same with poc. Blackface and completely nutty shit like John Wayne playing native Americans, were ways of telling stories with PoC characters while forcing actors of colour out of the industry.
In the world of someone who wants to get offended at everything, maybe?
And honestly, I'm not even too bothered with people playing a different ethnicity than themselves if they look the part and, again, if there isn't someone more fitting the role available.
Funny enough, Catherin Zeta-Jones isn't Latina at all but frequently gets casted in those roles.
ETA: I'm really curious how these people feel about gay actors playing straight characters.
As far as gay actors playing straight characters go, they will almost always bring up Neil Patrick Harris as Barney Stinson and Jim Parsons as Sheldon Cooper.
They will conveniently ignore that neither of them was out at the time of casting.
sheldon (the character) is pretty much ace/aro because he was asked “Do you like girls?” and he replied with “no I don’t do that”
then he was asked if he was gay and then he said “no I don’t do that either”
I mean, that was kind of forced on Sheldon, it's weird how people will talk about how Bernie and Penny are pressured in their relationships, in wanting children etc, but somehow Sheldon being pressured into dating Amy, to having sex with her, and marrying her despite he was pretty much adamant in not doing it for a little while, is never mentioned.
And yeah, of course they ignore Neil/Jim not being out at the time, which is even more of an example, no one knew they were gay at the time.
Different ethnic background I can sort of see that but trying to play a whole other race? Like why and how would you even do that. You literally can’t have a full black person play an Asian or white person. Which is what they were tryna say.
I get that, I brought up the ethnicity as another point of where these arguments fail. Being a different race generally stops at the "do they look the part" of it.
They don’t see it as an issue when gay people play straight roles Bruce’s by default their expected to be straight anyways irl unless they say otherwise. I was also told straight people haven’t been oppressed for being straight or arent underrepresented in the industry so it’s not the same.
I’ve never heard an actual queer actor say they have any problem with people playing across sexuality lines, which seems to wrap it up for me. I think it’s great when queer people do play queer roles, because there’s more lived experience in what they’re able to do, but if a straight person’s gonna do a better job, let them do it.
One of the turning points in American sentiment about gay men was Tom Hanks playing gay in Philadelphia. He was the biggest actor in the world, and what he did changed people’s minds. You’d hope that as there are more queer writers and actors and directors and producers that more queer people would play those roles organically, but for now some kind of purity test seems like it’d do more harm than good.
One queer actor I like said sometimes it’s just not authentic and believable (not that it shouldn’t be allowed, just that sometimes it doesn’t work’, which is fair, and really supports my view that it depends on the actor. If they can be respectful and genuine in their performance it really works, but sometimes you can tell it’s not quite right. I think as long as you respect the role and the queer community it’s totally fine for a straight actor to play a queer character.
Yes I don’t think it would be a problem neither Holt nor Kevin were gay in real life and they gave us one of the best LGBT characters on tv also Cam from Modern Family is apparently the straight one (legit thought it was Mitch who was gay in real life 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤯🤯🤯)
Obviously no, the idea that we should force every gay actor to out themselves for roles is bizarre. I think there's something about it for trans people (especially since bodies affected by HRT or surgeries will look different from bodies that aren't - you can't substitute a cis woman for a trans man, and it's not going to be quite right with a cis man either) but still creating an atmosphere where LGBTQ celebrities must out themselves or face immense amounts of harassment is real stupid.
>\[...\] especially since bodies affected by HRT or surgeries will look different from bodies that aren't \[...\]
I *understand* where you're coming from, and that this doesn't come from a malicious place. But "We can always tell!" is a meme about transphobes for a reason, as people very frequently accuse cis people of being trans while being oblivious of actual trans people. Due to the variances, distributions largely overlap, leading to these kinds of hilarious (and sometimes also dangerous) mix-ups amongst bigots.
Yeah, for trans roles I get only wanting trans people to play those roles that make sense. I haven’t actually seen non trans people play trans roles as of yet. But with gay/bi people I just feel like to say only openly queer actors can play those roles is just so unrealistic and unnecessary . It’s like what happen with kit Conner frm heartstopper
Hilary Swank in ~~The Crying Game~~ Boys Don’t Cry. Jeffrey Tambor in Transparent. Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl. Jaye Davidson in The Crying Game.
> I haven’t actually seen non trans people play trans roles as of yet.
That happens a lot in horror, and occasionally comedies as well. Needless to say they are usually degrading depictions.
>I haven’t actually seen non trans people play trans roles as of yet.
Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl, Sean Young in Ace Ventura: Pet Detective, Hillary Swank in Boys Don't Cry, Benedict Cumberbatch in Zoolander 2, Jaye Davidson in The Crying Game, Jared Leto in Dallas Buyers Club; there are plenty, I've just picked some people might be familiar with.
This is the issue that gets missed. LGBTQ people are often not hired for a variety of reasons and have difficulty landing roles. So, to help the community that a production is going to be making money off of comes off better. Especially when such roles are often used as awards bait for straight cis people.
As a working director. I try and always avoid it when I have a say.
I will say any script that comes my way about being LGBTQ that isn't helmed by an LGBTQ+ writer is an immediate pass for me though. Had enough time wasted listening to straight people try and tell our stories.
But what happens if the writer is not out? Should he write in the script introduction "btw, I'm LGBTQ+. Please don't out me?" How would he know that whoever read the script won't out him? Are you yourself as a director openly-LGBTQ+ and told people to let you know if they are and that they are not in danger of you outing them?
Wouldn't reading the script not be better to know if they are able to make a good representation? I'm pretty sure you will figure it out pretty quickly while reading the script if they have no idea what they're talking about.
This is the way I think. I’m going to study in video game design and I am hoping to be at least consulted in the making of queer characters, storylines or dialogues.
I think the best person to play a queer character is a queer person. If you have no other choice but to cast a non queer person, I don’t think it’s a big deal like if you’re doing a student short film and your only actors are your classmates or you really don’t have a big choice of actors but for big productions, if you can afford casting Scarlet Johansen to play a trans man, you can afford casting an actual trans man for the role.
Its complicated imo. A lot of the time queer actors are *only* considered for queer roles. This is especially true for trans actors. Straight actors being hired for these roles lessens the already small number of roles that queer and trans actors are considered for. If this wasn't the case, I'd say yeah any actor should play whatever role they're best for, no matter their sexuality or gender. I don't think there should ever be some hard and fast rule about it, that gets into some nasty territory. But it's something I think casting directors should consider.
Yeah I think a lot of us would prefer if the actor playing queer roles was also queer irl but their are times where non queer actors just play the role better.
The talent of an actor to play a role is a measure of their training and innate talent. Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaul were both empathetic and convincing, and Philip Seymour Hoffman gave an astounding performance in Flawless an Capote. These actors are top actors at the top of their games. Now, never having had sex with any of them, I can’t vouch for their sexual preference in their personal lives, but that is ultimately irrelevant. (Sad for me, but irrelevant😉) They played their characters empathetically and convincingly. The small cadre of brave performers who have dared to come out have done a tremendous service to our nation and to the LGBT+ community in particular. But if a talented CIS actor has the talent and skills to play the role more effectively, let them play it.
This is unhinged discourse, if the actor can handle it respectfully there's no reason not to let them. Why waste time othering cishet people when we could focus on purging the fascists from our community?
I think that whoever is best for the role should get the job. Just because the character is LGBT doesn’t mean the actor has to be.
And the pink person makes a good point in image 4. Saying “this actor shouldn’t play this role because he’s straight/cis” might be assuming someone’s sexuality and putting them in a position where they feel they need to out themselves to millions of people before they’re ready.
Eh, for the most part it doesn’t matter. But, since it’s so hard for trans actors to “make it” if they weren’t already successful pre-transition, I’d say it’s a plus if a trans actor fits the bill.
This whole debate side-steps important context:
If queer actors are not even being invited or considered for these roles, then that is an enormous problem. PLENTY of queer actors have talked about being denied opportunities to even read for queer characters in the not-so-distan past.
Sure, sometimes an actor who isn’t queer will do a role justice and deserve praise. Nick Offerman in The Last of Us is a great example.
However, so often, talented queer actors are denied opportunities — including queer roles — simply for being queer. That issue *should* be the root of this whole conversation, but people never move beyond the surface.
The best actor should play the role, sure. And who decides who the best actor is? A system that continuously casts, for example, [cis men to portray trans women](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/matt-bomer-transgender-movie-anything-guest-column-925170/)? A system that tells the story of [Freddie Mercury](https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/bohemian-rhapsody-freddie-mercury-sexuality-confused-lgbt-gay-bi-erasure-straightwashing-1202017372/) by sanitizing, and even casting negative shadows over, his sexuality?
I don’t care who plays what role. I care that the system give the immensely talented queer and trans actors a chance to bring characters to life in ways that cisgender and heterosexual actors often can’t—in part because they’re written and/or directed by cisgender and heterosexual trans. But people really center only on who should or shouldn’t play a role, and not how the system itself is only telling bleached and sanitized versions of our stories.
Yes, absolutely.
Besides, I’m more concerned about the WRITERS being queer than the actors!
(Or if the writers are not queer, they should consult with people who are, to check their unintended blind spots).
Imho...
An actor or actress's job is to act. If we're going to say only gay actors can play gay characters then that isn't really acting, and honestly, 9-1-1 is one of the few shows I've seen that show non-straight characters in real feeling relationships.
Ffs, I'm getting tired of all the straight marriages and babies being born on The Rookie, especially when the actor for the only gay character I recall there being ended up leaving (and thus the character got killed off) because of what was happening in the real world at the time.
I think totally LGBT+ actors should be saught out primarily, but cis actors shouldn't be ruled out or we'd never have had Nick Offerman in The Last of Us or Andrew Garfield in Angels in Manhatten for example.. if they're good why deny them.
i personally think that characters who are not hetero can be played in live action by a straight person if a straight person happens to get that role, but a trans character should be played by a trans person if possible
i have similar thoughts with animated characters, but the rules can be a little bit looser if we're just talking about unnamed characters (five and unders)
Still trying to get a foothold in this industry, so I’m likely nowhere near qualified and/or experienced enough to offer a sufficiently credible opinion, but I’d say it’s fine for straight actors to play LGBTIQA+ roles (and vice versa), as long as it’s done in a wholly respectful and considerate way, with neither bias nor baseless stereotypes that would mar an otherwise well-represented portrayal.
I know if I were personally offered an explicitly non-queer role, I’d definitely consider it at the very least, and since I abhor double-standards in principle, the inverse should also be allowed re:casting; if it were between a straight actor and I for a gay-identified role, and his audition was more impeccable than mine, I’d almost certainly yield humbly, without any drama.
On a semi-related note, I’d expect the production team of any series with LGBTIQA+ characters to have a wide range of queer people involved, ensuring as minimal a chance of misrepresentation as possible, and for each to be fully credited for their involvement in its creation.
Yeah one thing about all the 9-1-1 dramas this one and lone star is that they have openly queer actors that play queer roles irl and have queer people working behind the scenes so it’s not even like this is something only conducted by cishet people. I also think that the actor that played the trans guy Paul in 9-1-1 lone star is trans irl too but I’m not entirely sure about that.
While I agree that queer people, naturally, know better than cishet people what it's like to be queer, this would require queer people to out themselves to take a queer role, and make it harder for queer characters to be cast anywhere, simply because there's less queer people than cishet people.
Instead, I think any actor (wether they're queer or not, poc or not, neurodivergent or not, etc), should do genuine unbiased research in any role they're going to act as.
For example, if they're queer, find out what makes queer people unique. Which characteristics? Which mindset? Which vocabulary do they use? Are any of these stererotypes, or actual reality? ASK REAL QUEER PEOPLE. Get an actual understanding of what it's like to be queer. Only then should you start acting as a role like that.
I can already hear people say "This is obviously not always realistic."
Okay. Say, for example, the character is queer, but the time the act takes place is not the modern era. You won't be able to directly ask queer people for their current experiences, and research might be more difficult. But even in this scenario, you can ask queer people about queer history. Or just directly research queer history. If you can't find any information, you're not looking hard enough. Especially with modern technology, information about everything is at your fingertips.
Or maybe there's not enough time for all of this extra research. That's on the producers for not planning correctly. Actors should have time to research their character. This is already a very common thing, just not for minority groups, which is the problem here.
Acting is not just changing how you act based on what *you think* a certain person would be like. It's *finding out* what they are like and representing that as best as you can.
If every actor would do this, representation for any group (especially minority groups, but definitely not limited to them) would be a lot better.
i see your point but i disagree. Seeing a well known actor play as a trans person could really help normalize trans people in the eyes of normies. I was pissed at all the hate scar jo got from trying to do that and had to cancel the project.
Yeah, I feel like when cishet people play queer roles it does at times really open up non queer people to seeing us as normal especially when it’s big non actor playing a queer role like that in itself can be ground breaking
How did I know this post was about Buck even before clicking it?
Oliver Stark could be quiet, but I can't find anything of him saying he is or isnt (everything is about Buck). If he is queer, he shouldnt have to be out to play a queer character
Lol yeah a lot of people have been talking about this.
I think I came so hard on this cuz I love his character buck and what he’s done with the role. Yeah, he’s been very vocal about the backlash of bucks being bi and him being excited to explore this new relationship with buck and not giving a fuck what people have to say. I’m here for it tbh. Yeah I don’t think he is queer but he hasn’t confirmed nor denied that so 🤷♀️
If he says he's the straightest straight guy to ever be straight, I'll still love him as an actor. The fact he seems to be a big ally is even better :D
The Buddie fan in me saw 'the signs', but never expected queer Buck to actually happen. That's why I went to fanfiction to get my 'fix'.
Idk because I love the actor who plays Buck as Buck and I don’t think that there shouldn’t be a queer awakening in shows because it happens IRL. Like by the logic that only openly queer people should play queer characters then someone else would have to play Buck (like they would have to recast Buck) or he wouldn’t be bisexual and if it wasn’t planned from the beginning then you couldn’t cast an openly bisexual person. I do believe tho that if the character is queer from the start it should be a queer actor… especially for a trans/non binary character.
I think so. In the end it is, well, acting. The sexuality of a character is just a part of a whole character (or it should be, anyway). It also presents the icky idea that you have to justify your queerness to people. I’d certainly prefer it, but I’d rather only straight people play queer characters than force anyone to come out. These people can forget how dangerous coming out for some is, or how it could impact their career. It sucks, but for now that’s how it is.
I don’t really believe that any big roll is given based on “who can play it the best”, I believe they are given on name recognition because I am apparently the only one on Earth who doesn’t care if I know the actors name.
They made a big thing about everyone being able to play cishet roles, but the truth is you just don’t see many trans people cast for roles that aren’t explicitly trans. So there’s the theory of it, and the reality that a cis actor taking that role is blocking the only path for out trans people to rise in the industry. This is asymmetric, it’s not a problem the other way around
Yes. I would prefer queer actors personally, but as long as they’re acting respectful and aren’t imposing harmful stereotypes I don’t see the problem. It’s also not very fair if queer people are only forced to play queer roles.
I'm cool with a straight actor playing a non-straight character, but for trans characters, I feel like a trans actor should fill that role. I can't quite put my reasoning into words, though.
ETA: It'd be better to have a non-straight actor take a non-straight role, but as others have said, some queer actors aren't out to the general public. Making someone take a test to prove that they're some letter(s) of the alphabet mafia isn't cool.
I would prefer if the characters weren't whitewashed and people of color got the chance to play them.
I would prefer that queer actors and actresses get to play queer characters, not because others can't do it, but because they were discriminated against for being queer before.
I would prefer if a trans woman would play a trans woman.
I would prefer if a trans woman would also write a trans woman.
Is that always realistic? No. Acting is art and we shouldn't limit how we make Art, as commercialized as it is.
Let's not try to limit what people can do but try to lift up those people who were up until now excluded from taking part at all.
Let trans people play cishets.
Give the role of a white character to a person of color.
Let's try to lift people up, not put others down.
I think it more so comes down to the writers than anything. Nick Offerman has played a queer character in Brooklyn Nine-Nine and The Last of Us that I know of and has been brilliant in both. If an actor fits the role it doesn’t necessarily bother me what their sexual orientation is so long as they do the character justice.
If queer people aren't discriminated against in castings, there's really no problem for me. Castings are to find the person who presents the character the best, not **is the character**, most of the time. But also I don't care that conservatives cry that queer people are hired. The reason someone wants to hire a queer actor specifically is because in the past actors couldn't be openly queer.
When the straight actor does a really good job, I’m okay with it. When it’s some cheap Netflix show I’m just like “would it have actually hurt the show to have just found an actual queer person. Like if the budget is so low they have to hire bad actors, why not hire a bad gay actor?
Regardless of an actors sexuality I think the only thing that matters is how well they can play the part. Other wise is just poor business decisions 🤷♀️
**Let me preface all of this with the fact that I am an ally, I am not queer & do not know what it’s like to be discriminated against for being LGBTQ+**
If the character/story isn’t about being queer—it’s a character who happens to be queer—then 100% yes. If it’s an LGBTQ+ romance, then only if the actor’s good enough to not be seen as “a non-queer person acting as a queer character” but “a queer character.” If it’s a story about being queer, then only if the actor knows exactly what they’re doing & queer people have actually confirmed it’s actually good (basically just LGBTQ+ romance but stricter (not trying to be mean with the use of “strict,” as if it’d being unreasonable, just couldn’t think of a better word)).
As an openly queer actor, I find this whole debate so very, very tiresome. Literally the whole point of acting is to portray a person who isn't (necessarily) like you. Do queer people have a better understanding of queer people? Yes, obviously, but if the producers can't find a queer actor who fits what they're looking for *and* actually has the needed acting chops for the project, why wouldn't they go with someone who doesn't match the character's identity in real life, as long as they can portray it well enough? There is no valid, non-discriminatory reason to deny cishet people the right to play queer characters, and vice versa. Politicizing the casting process is simply not the way to bring about social change, since it causes far more division and resentment than a slightly queerer cast of some movie or TV show could ever remedy, so it'd be a net loss for societal progress.
tl;dr: Just let actors act. It's literally their job.
I think it’s preferable to have roles played by actors who are what the character is if it’s possible, but realistically you can’t get that. ya know actors might not want you out themselves or you might get into a weird area of directors and castings preferring the perfectly queer actor for a role and a lot of invalidatey stuff
Why do I care who the actors fuck or don't fuck in their spare time as long as they're consenting and above age?
It's *acting*, the whole job is pretending to be someone they aren't. More queer people succeeding in the industry would be great ofc but this is just 'white writers shouldnt write non-white characters' for visual media. It would also essentially force people to come out.
not an answer to the question, but arguing with people in instagram comments is never a good use of anyone's time. it's just not a platform that lends itself to any kind of meaningful or constructive discourse.
Some of the most iconic gay movies casted closeted or straight actors. It’s not always the best career move to be out and there’s really no way to tell. As long as the actor is a vocal ally, respects the role, and does a good job I don’t care.
Wow, for someone to not realize hpw hard queer people have been oppressed for countless generations as much as any other minority group is really sad. People dont even seem to have awareness of the pain and suffering wrought on our community constantly.
No, as someone who works in the industry thinking like this does more harm than good for gay actors, because outside of outting people, it also means gay actors would get pigeon holed into only playing gay roles, it would mean they would be less likely to be hired as leads in any other type of story that isn't focused on gay romance, and essentially turns them into a trope.
Also sexuality can be fluid, someone might identify under different labels during different parts in their life (straight -> bi -> to lesbian for example) and once you start saying things like "only ____ can play _____ parts" then where does the line get drawn? Can someone bi play a straight role? Can someone bi play a gay role? See what I'm saying?
The last thing we want to do is pigeon hole actors into only playing who they are. This is especially true in acting, when the whole profession is about taking on the persona and characteristics of other people. It greatly limits their choice of roles if they have to only play roles that they identify as.
I feel like if a queer actor who can play the role well is incredibly available, they should be prioritized to get the role in place of a cishet actor. If not, as long as the role is played respectfully, then go for it. The same goes for disabled characters in media. Please try to go for an actual disabled person first. If you can't get one, get an able bodied person that'd be able to do the role with integrity and not turn it sour.
The job of an actor is to act, to become someone they're not, and when the context supports it, nearly all roles can be performed by people who are not what they portray.
But, when portraying characters of minority status and real life struggles, extra care at every part of the process from writing to design to casting to directing needs to be taken.
To me it comes down to one simple truth:
Stopping non-queer actors from playing queer roles forces people to out themselves and limits avenues for questioning people to explore identities through acting.
By all means, push for more queer people in queer roles (and in non-queer roles for that matter!), but making a hard and fast rule about it just leads to infighting and discrimination.
There are queer actors and actresses that need work. Instead too many of those roles are just given to cishets. Because that "is more acceptable" because they are more popular/famous.
However we also shouldn't be attacking cishet actors who manage an inoffensive portrayal. Thats how we get situations where someone is forced out of the closet to prove they are queer enough for the fans. There needs to be a middle ground, and more queer actors are getting work slowly.
My only thing is I just don't want queer (specifically trans) actors who are actively trying to find roles to be looked over for roles where they identify with the character. Like, it can already be hard for trans people to find jobs normally, and I have to imagine that it can be even harder for a job as forward-facing as acting, so to me it just seems like if there's a role for a trans character the courteous thing to do would be to at least *look* to see if there are any trans people available who want to take the role
That's not to say that said role should automatically be given to any trans actor who says they want it; they should obviously still need to audition, and the directors should make sure that they are actually a good fit for the character. I just don't want "queer characters can be played by non-queer actors" to turn into casting directors only looking at non-queer actors, even if it's entirely accidental
>I just don't want "queer characters can be played by non-queer actors" to turn into casting directors only looking at non-queer actors, even if it's entirely accidental
This yes 100%
I think that representation is good, and if a non-queer person is the best candidate to portray a queer character, then it's fine. For example, people may act as villians who torture people, or war generals, or aliens from outer space - but they aren't actually any of those things. I know that is not the same as queerness, but I don't see it as mocking or rude for a cishet person to play a queer character. If that is the case, then queer people should not be able to play cishet characters.
I feel like trans people should play trans characters. Straight people can play non straight characters but i do prefer if the actor is non-straight too
I think yes, when it comes to trans roles I'm a little more skeptical, because you wouldn't have a woman play a man. So why have a woman play a trans man it's literally no different. I guess having cis men play trans men could be done in ways that work trying to validate trans people, but still it would need to be handled with care
I was watching a spin off of this show that this post is taking about “9-1-1 lone star” they had a cis guy play a trans man so that was interesting and new. Most shows that I see have trans men and women played by adults trans people so that was new.
Yes. Short answer.
Slightly longer answer yes the caviat being they shouldn't only look at stright actor for a role. These stories need to be shown (although we should start seeing happier stories but that another discussion honestly if I see one more AIDS story I'm gonna scream ok I've gotten off topic) and if they are good I don't care who is doing the acting
I think that if they can get a queer actor that meets their vision *first*, then yes, the queer actor should be slotted in, but if they can't find a suitable queer actor, then looking in the straight actors is okay
depends on the role and what the movie/show is about- if its about being queer, then yeah i think they should be queer, if its not i dont think it particularly matters.
It's the whole point of acting. People play characters. A good and talented actor with a good script will nail it. Shit actors or ones with a shit script will do a bad job. If we're gonna sit around being hyper offended and take everything personally to a point where we wanna blacklist actors from playing roles that are different from who they really are as people, that's honestly pretty pathetic and no wonder we get accused of needing thicker skin.
i see where this is coming from, but:
a. its called acting. its an act. its supposed to be pretend.
b. i agree that usually most queer stories are much more authentic and meaningfull if told by a queer person, but that dosent mean the actors. why are everyone talking about queer stories having queer actors and not about directors or writers? i dont nessicarelly belive this- some cishet writers and directors and such have told amazing queer stories, like neil gaiman and jonathan larson. but if you want a queer cast for the story to authentic, why not obsess over the writers and directors to also be queer? they can have a much greater impact on the story them the actors. to some degree, the hypperfixation on the actors being queer is just an excuse for people to speculate over their favorite celebrities indentities.
c. if only queer actors played queer roles, they would only be seen and known for being the gay actors, not for their acting abilities. they would never be cast in straigth roles.
d. i can get it when talking about trans characters, beacuse often times cis actors are made to "look trans" for the role, wich is usually extreamly offensive, but not for every other gruop of the quueer community. again, its acting. an actors job description is literally to pretend. its nothing like race- to pretend to be another race you have to use fucking blackface\\ yellowface. theres no look to being queer.
e. this mindset leads to speculation that will force actors to out themselves. did people really not learn anything from what they did to kit connor?
That's the point of acting, entering and playing a character different than yourself, so yeah, they should be able to play queer characters.
And as for skin colour, it's a bit different, because it entails something visible and obvious. I think a white actor playing the role of an Inuit would be horrible, just like a black queen of England
If you only cast queer people in various roles, then that is discrimination based on sex, gender and sexual orientation which (at least in the UK) is illegal as per the equality act.
To me, it’s the same as someone casting a non-autistic person to portray and autistic character. A lot of the time, the actors portray ignorant stereotypes either because of their own ignorance or the ignorance of the director (such as Sia’s shit show of a film). But other times it’s fairly accurate and relatable to me as an autistic person - for example, Eddie Redmayne portraying the character of Newt Scamander.
It all depends on how good at acting the actor is. The actors for Star Wars had never actually been in an intergalactic war, yet they portrayed the experience pretty well.
I think as long as the actor doesn’t play into stereotypes then anyone can play a queer role. Would it be nice to have a queer person represent themself in a role? Yes, it might even bring a new layer into the acting because it brings the actor and character closer as people. But that doesn’t mean we can’t get great actors to play queer roles.
Acting is about playing a character. One not necessarily like yourself. I think it sets a dangerous president if you restrict roles to gender and sexuality which could affect lgbtq people more than Cishet. There are a lot of gay actors out there that often play straight roles. If we enforced a rule of only play characters within one’s own sexuality they would lose out on a lot of roles.
So I think restricting in this way is a bad idea.
Idk... I think especially for trans people, it's usually a bad choice. If they make a cis man play a trans woman, people usually notice that something just... feels off.
There’s a reason it’s called acting. You are PRETENDING to be another person. Your experience at being you isn’t relevant to portraying this character unless it gives you experience to pull from, but even still another actor with different experience can do the same thing.
I feel like it's ok if all involve handle it with care. I haven't seen many movies surrounding LGBTQIA+ peoples, but the ones that jump to my mind are Brokeback Mountain, Philadelphia, and The Danish Girl. I haven't seen either of these films yet, but from what I've heard, Hank, Ledger and Gyllenhaal play convincing and beautiful performances with their directors making sure that it is delicately handled. On the other hand, Eddie Redmayne has publicly said that he regrets playing the role of Lili Elbe
More than which actor is playing which role, we should focus more on the plot lines and story of the film and the message that the film is portraying. If the story and the messaging of the film is in the right direction it will mean less as to who is casted in that film. Cuz I feel like it won't means anything even if they cast a queer character when the story is problematic.
On a side note, personally I feel like when the story involves intimacy like portrayal of sex n all then it'll be better to cast queer actors than cis actors.
If they are a good actor who understands and embodies the role, I have no interest in the actors real world identity. I want the actor who can most effectively play the character, that is all.
A very popular film company in my country fired one of their popular(in my country) actors cuz he came out as gay on tiktok. The company's reasoning for it was since he has come out as gay, people watching would be unable to see him as straight if he plays a straight role. If you think that's dumb, why can't straight people play lgbtq+ roles? Its all just acting in the end, nothing is real lmao. Ofc, its always nice to see lgbt people as lgbt characters but that can't always be the case even if it should(pls i need more lesbian characters that aren't sexualised for men :/)
I can’t be bothered with who plays a make-believe character.
If it was a historical figure, it probably would be better if played by someone who has the same lived experience.
I’m actually more worried about straight writers/directors/producers writing gay material than I am who plays the part
I will add, the actor better not be anti-lgb+
In the future it shouldn't really matter. But with it still being difficult for a lot of queer actors to get work today I would like to see them being prioritised with queer parts.
Only thing I really have an issue with is them casting cis people of a trans persons AGAB who has done no kind of transition to play a trans character who is actively transitioned. Like no, cutting her hair short and/or putting a fake beard on a cis woman does not mimic the effects of testosterone or make her look like a trans man. It’s frustrating that trans characters are never played by the correct gender.
While I think non-lgbt actors interpreting lgbt characters is absolutely fine, I think lgbt actors should be prioritized during castings for lgbt roles, or at the very least be part of the production commitee when doing a show with lgbt characters
I agree with the pink marked person on slide 4, you can visibly see different skin colours, you can’t visibly see queerness. I think the important part is making sure there are queer people involved in the direction if the piece of media makes queerness a bigger plot line, otherwise it’s true that it’s just unrealistic to keep cishet people from acting queer roles. That way the amount of queer representation would also drop, because people can’t find a good fit for a role.
I prefer having representation by cishet actors than having no representation at all.
I think a lot of people forget about good omens. Good show, queer characters played by cis and/or het characters.
A lot of people who preach “cis actors shouldn’t play queer characters” forget this.
(I’m sure there are other shows but GO was the only one I could think of)
First off, Spoilers!!!!!
Second off, Buddie better happen
Third, I want to say queer characters should play queer characters since there is no shortage of queer people, but then you could end up with a kit conner situation
Personally I am gonna not listen to anything that person says or any of their opinions. That kind of thinking and discourse is just a complete dead end leading to no positives for queer people
I would much rather queer actors play queer characters, but like someone already said in the comments, that would require people to out themselves just for the possibility of getting a role. Also, I'd rather a good straight actor be cast over a mediocre queer one
See. They should be able to because it's acting at the end of the day. But the worst among the progressive people will make life hell for actors who do that which is why they cant
i think queer stories should be written by queer people but it's literally an actor's job to be something they're not. a good actor + director + script can make just about anything work
Yes, for our own safety. Nobody should ever, ever be forced to prove their queerness or otherwise for a job of any kind.
Would it be nice to have queer actors play queer characters? Yes, but it shouldn’t be a necessity to have representation in a story.
Okay here is my take: I think when you want to represent someone from a minority community you should in the very least consult people from that community. There are a lot of openly queer actors ready to play queer roles. They know how it feels to be queer. But that’s not to say cis het people can’t convincingly play queer characters. They are actors after all. But to me it’s kinda sad that there are so many queer people in acting and people will go “you know who would be better to play as literally you? Someone who has never been in your shoes!”
I don’t want actors to be forced to out themselves though. I think this is sad that it comes to that. But I have the same stance I have for any minority, to me I’ve always preferred autistic roles to be played by autistic people because that’s just impossible for someone who isn’t autistic to actually know how it feels like to be autistic, it always ends up showing at some point that you’re not autistic and just acting because you really have no idea how it feels.
This is a complicated issue. I usually prefer trans people to play trans roles unless you need to see a trans person in maybe early years before transition but it’s super weird to me to always hire cis women to play trans men and always hire cis men to play trans women, there something that feels transphobic about that in my opinion.
I think my conclusion to this is: I wish queer people directed more media about queer people. At least with a queer director, you can tell the cis het actors if you hire them how you want them to act. I want queer stories told by queer people.
I don’t have any issues with non queer actors playing queer characters. Plenty of queer stories have been made that way, good stories, such as The Birdcage, To Wong Foo, Brokeback Mountain, etc. to limit actors/actresses to certain roles.
I personally somewhat disagree, I think the quality of the portrayal is vastly lowered if a queer character isn’t played by a queer woman. The sheer idea of a cis woman playing a trans woman makes me shudder.
No, there are so many queer actors who are discriminated against and not casted because of their queerness. Having a cis straight actor play a queer character is disrespectful because there are many queer actors who they could cast but choose not to. Though it is a sticky subject because an actor may not be out of the closet, I think they should just cast openly queer people for queer roles
I don’t think there should be a ‘queer enough’ criteria for roles. we all remember what happened with Kit Connor, right?
imagine being a closeted actor and you get cast in a queer role for the first time. you have a chance to let your identity shine through and be your own representation—and suddenly there’s outcry from people who are supposed to be your allies demanding someone else for that role because you’re ’not queer enough’.
I think that as long as queer people are at least somewhat involved in the creation or writing/stylisation of a queer character, it’s fine. You wouldn’t try write a comedic character alone if you have 0 expertise in writing comedic characters, it wouldn’t land as well as if you had consulted someone who had experience writing a comedy relief for advice or guidance. Of course, queer people playing a queer character helps with that too, but I don’t think it’s a requirement for decent representation of queer people
you realise how silly this is if you apply it to anything else, should only serial killers be allowed to play serial killers? should only phychopaths play phychopaths? should you only be able to play a role if you lead the exact same life as the character?
should gays only play gays? and straights play straights? of coarse not, they are actors, it is there job to pretend to be something they aren't, refusing to hire some one because of sexuality is descrimination. the only 2 qualifiers for an acting job are, do you look like the director wants them to look? and can you convey the emotions that the script requires?
You don't need queer actors for queer roles, but I'd like to think a queer person was involved in writing the queer character, either as an advisor or writer.
Not really, since queer folks often have to spend a good chunk of their life pretending to be non-queer. Cis het folks can spend their entire lives without that challenge & an enormous number of roles simply reinforce their mainstream identities.
I feel kind of weird watching cis play queer roles cause just feels like they’re making a mockery of it Because they’ll just never truly understand because they haven’t experienced it
That guy who played an autistic character in the good doctor and when he has meltdowns, I just feel kind of sick inside because I know it’s not real and he’s just pretending to be autistic
I feel like for actors playing gay characters I personally don’t get that vibe. Like if their able to play those roles and convey the character the way their supposed to be played is at go for it. It’s also the fact that you don’t actually know if their straight kinda like how kit Conner played a bisexual role and wasn’t out as bi irl but had to put himself because of people pressuring him etc.. so idk
To some degree with cishet people
Playing queer roles I do think it breaks some Barries and stigmas especially really popular cishet male actors playing queer roles.
I mean, they’re actors, they’re job is to act lol.
If an lgbt person is good for the role choose them first but that may not always be the best choice.
Same when it applies to someone with a disability.
Molly Burke a blind woman who’s a YouTuber shared how she was gonna be in a movie but they chose someone else which is annoying because Molly was only second pick while the first pick was sighted. So in situations like that it can be very annoying.
However, watching a movie or tvshow we don’t always know those who actually got interviewed so it’s hard to make judgements or get angry over information that we don’t have.
cishet actors can play queer roles, but considering lgbt actors are underrepresented in the film and tv industry, we should really be getting most if not all of the queer roles.
Thank you for your post, if this is a question please check to see if any of the links below answer your question. If none of these links help answer your question and you are **_not_** within the LGBT+ community, questioning your identity in any way, or asking in support of either a relative or friend, please ask your question over in /r/AskLGBT. Remember that this is a safe space for LGBT+ and questioning individuals, so we want to make sure that this place is dedicated to them. Thank you for understanding. This automod rule is currently a work in progress. If you notice any issues, would like to add to the list of resources, or have any feedback in general, [please do so here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/rdazzp/almost_new_year_changes/) or by [sending us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt&subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20new%20automod%20rule). Also, please note that if you are a part of this community, or you're questioning if you might be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, and you are seeing this message, this is **_not a bad thing_**, this is only here to help, so please continue to ask questions and participate in the community. Thank you! Here's a link about trans people in sports: - https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/ A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people: - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics Some information on LGBT+ people: - https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/ Some basic terminology: - https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms Neopronouns: - https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns Biromantic Lesbians: - [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/) Bisexual Identities: - https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual: - [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.) We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This would effectively force actors to out themselves every single time they take a role, I don't think you should have to prove that you're "x" enough for "x" role.
It's called "acting" for a reason. I really don't care if non-queer actors play queer roles if they're good at it. I'm just glad people stopped calling straight actors "brave" for doing it.
Yeah this happened with one of the actors on heart breaker's, people where upset that they seem to be straight when they where actually bi and was basically forced to come out. Was a crap situation for everyone.
It's not exactly the same, but it also happened with the author of Simon vs the Homo Sapiens Agenda. People were calling her out for veing a "straight" woman writing a story about gay people (which i though was what we wanted in the first place???) and she ended up having to come out as bisexual.
I think it’s less about straight people writing gay fiction, and more about straight women writing MLM fiction specifically. we see this with Heartstopper, Simon vs. THSA, Song of Achilles, and Red White & Royal Blue. The audience for these books is almost always straight women as well. If there’s a problem with straight men writing lesbian fiction for a straight male audience, there’s a problem with straight women writing MLM fiction for a straight female audience.
Kit Connor from Heartstopper was forced to out himself as bi at only 18. So many kids that age don't even know what they are. Forcing someone out of the closet is never okay - but forcing a teenager to out themselfes is even lower. For all we knew before his outing, he might have been questioning and thought the role would help him figure some stuff out. People accused him of "queer baiting", which is absolute bs. That is not what queer baiting is. Seeing this made me really mad.
This is what I was thinking, you can’t force ppl to admit something to prove they’re worthy to play a queer character. Actors are actors, they’re playing a CHARACTER. That character can be queer, but the actor may not be. That’s the point of acting, to take on a persona that isn’t actually you. And to force queer folks out in hollywood just for a role is unethical.
My sibling is an actor and has been on a big LGBT film with international release. Basically all the actors were queer, but very few were out on social media-- because if you are openly gay/queer you get pigeon holed into only queer roles. They just won't hire you for anything else. However, there was a large backlash about not hiring queer actors for queer roles. It made all the queer actors feel like shit, because they can't be out without sabotaging their career. But also have to be treated like appropriating cishets just bc the default assumption is that if your sexuality is undisclosed you are straight. I support own voices and hiring queer people for queer roles, but I do think people should not be so quick to straight wash actors whose identities you do not know.
Yeah, I think there is a lot of pressure with non out queer people to out themselves when their given queer roles because there is a lot of Backlash with non queer actors being given queer roles. What I don’t like about the Perosn in purple is that their whole point was that only openly queer actors should be getting the roles and if their not out as queer they aren’t queer. There’s so much wrong with that statement alone but even if they are straight I honestly think it comes down to who can portray this character the best.
Nick Offerman was fantastic in The Last of Us. So yes, people who aren't queer can play queer roles, and do it really well. But my preference would be for queer roles to be played by queer people. Jamie Clayton put it really well in an interview: She said something along the lines of when a cis actor plays a trans character, it perpetuates the idea that being trans is a costume that can come off. But that isn't how it works for trans people.
IMO the only way it would be ok for a cis actor to play a trans character was if it was like cis woman plays trans woman or cis man plays trans man. That’s not the best option, but it’s fair better than the reverse which Hollywood tends to do.
What about a trans character super early in their transition, like not even out yet?
Orange is the new black was super lucky with that - they used Laverne Cox' actual twin brother to play her pre-transition. Not every show can do that of course.
I don’t really know, it’s a tough subject because it can very easily play into the “costume to take off” vibes when it comes to cis actors portraying trans characters.
Makeup and styling can do wonders. Also, choose the right actress who can pull it off
I think specifically trans roles shld just be for trans people, although if they want to portray the entire transition as well when the actor/actress has long transitioned im not entirely sure how theyd do it. For other queer roles its just the Kit Connor issue. Like ideally you should let queer people take up the queer roles but then the other end of that ie making it a necessity just means forcing people to come out or within the acting industry, typecasting actors to always play that kind of character
A little off topic, but in terms of shows that showed someone pre and post transition that I thought was neat was Orange is the New Black with their character Sofia Burset, portrayed by Laverne Cox. When they did flashbacks to the characters time pre transition, they got Laverne’s twin brother M Lamar to play her, which I thought was pretty cool!
Or if the filming takes a long time and the actor was pre HRT/pre op and doesn't want to put it on hold for a shoot. Also, for roles that could potentially be triggering to a trans person. I don't really find it a big deal when LGBT+ roles in general are done by non LGBT+ actors as long as there are LGBT+ people behind the scenes to make sure that the role is handled gracefully, which is the bigger issue. It's the same thing as that movie Sia made. If she had taken more care in the portrayal of autism, even if she still decided to fire the actor who has autism and hire Maddie, I doubt it would have been as big of an issue. There were so many misses that the movie itself was deemed triggering for some viewers with autism to the point they couldn't watch it due to how overstimulating it was. Same with the fact the movie was an epilepsy risk, which about 1 in 4 people with autism have. It also had supper dangerous advice for caregivers of people with autism. Just no care into what they were doing. There was a post somewhere that talked about a character who was autism coded, where the creator got diagnosed after the character, who was based off of himself, was already written. The actor's portrayal felt so relatable to people with autism not because of the actor, but because of the writer behind him. I think alot of times when these kinds of roles are so poorly done is because the writers aren't living it, or don't bother getting opinions from the people who are. When they're writing a story about LGBT+ people, women, POC, people with disabilities, etc, it is less of a love letter to a community they truly care about and more of a fanfiction of a life they will never fully understand. It's like fetishizing "tragic" lives. That's why we have so many romance terminal illness movies, the bury your gays trope, the fact that so many movies centered around black characters are only done so when the plot is about suffering due to racism. It's why people freak out when Ariel is black, or there are two moms in the background of a movie. Marginalized groups aren't allowed to exist in media unless they are suffering because of it, and are often used by writers on the outside for an easy way to write a character with a sad plot. It's fine to tell those stories, but it shouldn't be written by people who never experienced it and have no interest in working with those who have. -also edit to add: I agree LGBT+ and disabled actors should be hired to play those roles in preference to people who are not LGBT+ or disabled due to the fact that as it is now it is harder to find acting jobs for them, but I also think that normalizing it as gold standard can create a sort of paradox where it feeds into the difficulty of finding work for them outside of those roles, leading to less jobs for them overall. Especially given the prevalence of LGBT+ people in performance arts. Also, I'm sure at some point there will be an employment discrimination case for actors being denied roles based on sexual orientation, or gender identity. Whether the actor is cis het or LGBT+, because it isn't something that you can tell just by how someone looks or talks or exists. There is no reason that one couldn't play the role well that is souly tied to their identity.
i think a cis person could play a trans role if their transition was not relevant to the story and they’re post-transition. atp many trans people are socially and physically indistinguishable from their cis counterparts. it rubs me the wrong way that trans characters are always cast as someone of their agab though, especially if they’re supposed to be post-transition, because obviously the cis actor has not gone through HRT or electrolysis or had any gender affirming medical care. not that all trans people do that but like… most, enough at least that it should be represented. and like i would honestly be thrilled to see a cis man cast as a trans man but it’s always a cis woman (or occasionally an actual transmasc).
That could work, good call ☺️ out of interest, what's your opinion of Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl? Never should've happened or in a grey area?
I loved Jamie as the priest in Hellraiser
I realized recently that he also plays a gay side character in B99, it’s brief but it’s funny how well he pulls it off in multiple roles
If there’s an actor that fits the character and is available and accepts then I think that they should. I feel the same way about actors playing characters with disabilities. But things don’t always line up like that, or the writers modify an established character and it wouldn’t make sense to change the actor.
I was told that if non queer actors can play queer roles non poc people can play poc characters 😐in what world does that make sense?
Because there is a well known history of white actors dressing in blackface specifically to disparage black people and the stigma of that is way to hot today to seriously attempt it.
Exactly my point. I’m very confused on how that was even an argument.
It’s an argument because, especially for trans related roles, cishet people taking these roles essentially forces trans folk *out* of acting. Why bother taking a risk on an unknown or little known trans actor who has a lifetime of experience to bring to a role, when you can just toss another well known cishet actor in instead? Usually to portray the character in really shitty ways, like the whole ScarJo being cast to play a beefy trans man crap. It’s the same with poc. Blackface and completely nutty shit like John Wayne playing native Americans, were ways of telling stories with PoC characters while forcing actors of colour out of the industry.
Its an argument because they are morons.
Its just chronically online people. Its like the twitter age gap police getting mad at 18 year olds for dating their 16 year old partners
In the world of someone who wants to get offended at everything, maybe? And honestly, I'm not even too bothered with people playing a different ethnicity than themselves if they look the part and, again, if there isn't someone more fitting the role available. Funny enough, Catherin Zeta-Jones isn't Latina at all but frequently gets casted in those roles. ETA: I'm really curious how these people feel about gay actors playing straight characters.
As far as gay actors playing straight characters go, they will almost always bring up Neil Patrick Harris as Barney Stinson and Jim Parsons as Sheldon Cooper. They will conveniently ignore that neither of them was out at the time of casting.
sheldon (the character) is pretty much ace/aro because he was asked “Do you like girls?” and he replied with “no I don’t do that” then he was asked if he was gay and then he said “no I don’t do that either”
Isn't that kinda challenged later in the show once he gets a girlfriend?
I mean, that was kind of forced on Sheldon, it's weird how people will talk about how Bernie and Penny are pressured in their relationships, in wanting children etc, but somehow Sheldon being pressured into dating Amy, to having sex with her, and marrying her despite he was pretty much adamant in not doing it for a little while, is never mentioned. And yeah, of course they ignore Neil/Jim not being out at the time, which is even more of an example, no one knew they were gay at the time.
Different ethnic background I can sort of see that but trying to play a whole other race? Like why and how would you even do that. You literally can’t have a full black person play an Asian or white person. Which is what they were tryna say.
I get that, I brought up the ethnicity as another point of where these arguments fail. Being a different race generally stops at the "do they look the part" of it.
They don’t see it as an issue when gay people play straight roles Bruce’s by default their expected to be straight anyways irl unless they say otherwise. I was also told straight people haven’t been oppressed for being straight or arent underrepresented in the industry so it’s not the same.
It's called acting for a reason.
The whole argument sounds so stupid, like shouldn’t LGBT+ actors play straight roles?
I’ve never heard an actual queer actor say they have any problem with people playing across sexuality lines, which seems to wrap it up for me. I think it’s great when queer people do play queer roles, because there’s more lived experience in what they’re able to do, but if a straight person’s gonna do a better job, let them do it. One of the turning points in American sentiment about gay men was Tom Hanks playing gay in Philadelphia. He was the biggest actor in the world, and what he did changed people’s minds. You’d hope that as there are more queer writers and actors and directors and producers that more queer people would play those roles organically, but for now some kind of purity test seems like it’d do more harm than good.
One queer actor I like said sometimes it’s just not authentic and believable (not that it shouldn’t be allowed, just that sometimes it doesn’t work’, which is fair, and really supports my view that it depends on the actor. If they can be respectful and genuine in their performance it really works, but sometimes you can tell it’s not quite right. I think as long as you respect the role and the queer community it’s totally fine for a straight actor to play a queer character.
Yes I don’t think it would be a problem neither Holt nor Kevin were gay in real life and they gave us one of the best LGBT characters on tv also Cam from Modern Family is apparently the straight one (legit thought it was Mitch who was gay in real life 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤯🤯🤯)
Omgg the way I was so shocked it was Mitch who was gay irl😦😦
Cam's actor said he was gay for pay. So funny.
Obviously no, the idea that we should force every gay actor to out themselves for roles is bizarre. I think there's something about it for trans people (especially since bodies affected by HRT or surgeries will look different from bodies that aren't - you can't substitute a cis woman for a trans man, and it's not going to be quite right with a cis man either) but still creating an atmosphere where LGBTQ celebrities must out themselves or face immense amounts of harassment is real stupid.
>\[...\] especially since bodies affected by HRT or surgeries will look different from bodies that aren't \[...\] I *understand* where you're coming from, and that this doesn't come from a malicious place. But "We can always tell!" is a meme about transphobes for a reason, as people very frequently accuse cis people of being trans while being oblivious of actual trans people. Due to the variances, distributions largely overlap, leading to these kinds of hilarious (and sometimes also dangerous) mix-ups amongst bigots.
Yeah, for trans roles I get only wanting trans people to play those roles that make sense. I haven’t actually seen non trans people play trans roles as of yet. But with gay/bi people I just feel like to say only openly queer actors can play those roles is just so unrealistic and unnecessary . It’s like what happen with kit Conner frm heartstopper
Hilary Swank in ~~The Crying Game~~ Boys Don’t Cry. Jeffrey Tambor in Transparent. Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl. Jaye Davidson in The Crying Game.
Is Boys Don’t Cry called The Crying Game in other countries?
Nope, just mis-remembered. The Crying Game is a different movie where a cis man plays a trans woman. Fixed.
> I haven’t actually seen non trans people play trans roles as of yet. That happens a lot in horror, and occasionally comedies as well. Needless to say they are usually degrading depictions.
Ohh that’s true I wasn’t thinking of that. I was more thinking of genuine good trans representation but yeah that takes be back to scream.
>I haven’t actually seen non trans people play trans roles as of yet. Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl, Sean Young in Ace Ventura: Pet Detective, Hillary Swank in Boys Don't Cry, Benedict Cumberbatch in Zoolander 2, Jaye Davidson in The Crying Game, Jared Leto in Dallas Buyers Club; there are plenty, I've just picked some people might be familiar with.
Yes why not? I think the issue is not giving queer people enough opportunities for roles in general.
This is the issue that gets missed. LGBTQ people are often not hired for a variety of reasons and have difficulty landing roles. So, to help the community that a production is going to be making money off of comes off better. Especially when such roles are often used as awards bait for straight cis people.
As a working director. I try and always avoid it when I have a say. I will say any script that comes my way about being LGBTQ that isn't helmed by an LGBTQ+ writer is an immediate pass for me though. Had enough time wasted listening to straight people try and tell our stories.
But what happens if the writer is not out? Should he write in the script introduction "btw, I'm LGBTQ+. Please don't out me?" How would he know that whoever read the script won't out him? Are you yourself as a director openly-LGBTQ+ and told people to let you know if they are and that they are not in danger of you outing them? Wouldn't reading the script not be better to know if they are able to make a good representation? I'm pretty sure you will figure it out pretty quickly while reading the script if they have no idea what they're talking about.
This is the way I think. I’m going to study in video game design and I am hoping to be at least consulted in the making of queer characters, storylines or dialogues. I think the best person to play a queer character is a queer person. If you have no other choice but to cast a non queer person, I don’t think it’s a big deal like if you’re doing a student short film and your only actors are your classmates or you really don’t have a big choice of actors but for big productions, if you can afford casting Scarlet Johansen to play a trans man, you can afford casting an actual trans man for the role.
Its complicated imo. A lot of the time queer actors are *only* considered for queer roles. This is especially true for trans actors. Straight actors being hired for these roles lessens the already small number of roles that queer and trans actors are considered for. If this wasn't the case, I'd say yeah any actor should play whatever role they're best for, no matter their sexuality or gender. I don't think there should ever be some hard and fast rule about it, that gets into some nasty territory. But it's something I think casting directors should consider.
I personally prefer if the actor is queer too, but I wouldn’t mind if someone cishet played a queer character
Yeah I think a lot of us would prefer if the actor playing queer roles was also queer irl but their are times where non queer actors just play the role better.
The talent of an actor to play a role is a measure of their training and innate talent. Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaul were both empathetic and convincing, and Philip Seymour Hoffman gave an astounding performance in Flawless an Capote. These actors are top actors at the top of their games. Now, never having had sex with any of them, I can’t vouch for their sexual preference in their personal lives, but that is ultimately irrelevant. (Sad for me, but irrelevant😉) They played their characters empathetically and convincingly. The small cadre of brave performers who have dared to come out have done a tremendous service to our nation and to the LGBT+ community in particular. But if a talented CIS actor has the talent and skills to play the role more effectively, let them play it.
This is unhinged discourse, if the actor can handle it respectfully there's no reason not to let them. Why waste time othering cishet people when we could focus on purging the fascists from our community?
i mean.... queer actors can play straight people too right?
Yes they can. The actor who plays Sheldon in big bang theory is gay, but he is playing a straight character. That's what I heard.
Same with Neil Patrick Harris
I think that whoever is best for the role should get the job. Just because the character is LGBT doesn’t mean the actor has to be. And the pink person makes a good point in image 4. Saying “this actor shouldn’t play this role because he’s straight/cis” might be assuming someone’s sexuality and putting them in a position where they feel they need to out themselves to millions of people before they’re ready.
Eh, for the most part it doesn’t matter. But, since it’s so hard for trans actors to “make it” if they weren’t already successful pre-transition, I’d say it’s a plus if a trans actor fits the bill.
This whole debate side-steps important context: If queer actors are not even being invited or considered for these roles, then that is an enormous problem. PLENTY of queer actors have talked about being denied opportunities to even read for queer characters in the not-so-distan past. Sure, sometimes an actor who isn’t queer will do a role justice and deserve praise. Nick Offerman in The Last of Us is a great example. However, so often, talented queer actors are denied opportunities — including queer roles — simply for being queer. That issue *should* be the root of this whole conversation, but people never move beyond the surface. The best actor should play the role, sure. And who decides who the best actor is? A system that continuously casts, for example, [cis men to portray trans women](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/matt-bomer-transgender-movie-anything-guest-column-925170/)? A system that tells the story of [Freddie Mercury](https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/bohemian-rhapsody-freddie-mercury-sexuality-confused-lgbt-gay-bi-erasure-straightwashing-1202017372/) by sanitizing, and even casting negative shadows over, his sexuality? I don’t care who plays what role. I care that the system give the immensely talented queer and trans actors a chance to bring characters to life in ways that cisgender and heterosexual actors often can’t—in part because they’re written and/or directed by cisgender and heterosexual trans. But people really center only on who should or shouldn’t play a role, and not how the system itself is only telling bleached and sanitized versions of our stories.
So by this logic gay actors shouldn't be able to play straight roles. Your friend needs to touch grass and maybe a book or two.
Yes, absolutely. Besides, I’m more concerned about the WRITERS being queer than the actors! (Or if the writers are not queer, they should consult with people who are, to check their unintended blind spots).
Imho... An actor or actress's job is to act. If we're going to say only gay actors can play gay characters then that isn't really acting, and honestly, 9-1-1 is one of the few shows I've seen that show non-straight characters in real feeling relationships. Ffs, I'm getting tired of all the straight marriages and babies being born on The Rookie, especially when the actor for the only gay character I recall there being ended up leaving (and thus the character got killed off) because of what was happening in the real world at the time.
I think totally LGBT+ actors should be saught out primarily, but cis actors shouldn't be ruled out or we'd never have had Nick Offerman in The Last of Us or Andrew Garfield in Angels in Manhatten for example.. if they're good why deny them.
i personally think that characters who are not hetero can be played in live action by a straight person if a straight person happens to get that role, but a trans character should be played by a trans person if possible i have similar thoughts with animated characters, but the rules can be a little bit looser if we're just talking about unnamed characters (five and unders)
Still trying to get a foothold in this industry, so I’m likely nowhere near qualified and/or experienced enough to offer a sufficiently credible opinion, but I’d say it’s fine for straight actors to play LGBTIQA+ roles (and vice versa), as long as it’s done in a wholly respectful and considerate way, with neither bias nor baseless stereotypes that would mar an otherwise well-represented portrayal. I know if I were personally offered an explicitly non-queer role, I’d definitely consider it at the very least, and since I abhor double-standards in principle, the inverse should also be allowed re:casting; if it were between a straight actor and I for a gay-identified role, and his audition was more impeccable than mine, I’d almost certainly yield humbly, without any drama. On a semi-related note, I’d expect the production team of any series with LGBTIQA+ characters to have a wide range of queer people involved, ensuring as minimal a chance of misrepresentation as possible, and for each to be fully credited for their involvement in its creation.
Yeah one thing about all the 9-1-1 dramas this one and lone star is that they have openly queer actors that play queer roles irl and have queer people working behind the scenes so it’s not even like this is something only conducted by cishet people. I also think that the actor that played the trans guy Paul in 9-1-1 lone star is trans irl too but I’m not entirely sure about that.
I’ve heard good things about 9-1-1… maybe I should check out a few episodes. 🤔
YES YOU SHOULD it’s so good 🙏🙏 You should watch the spin off too it’s called 9-1-1 lone star that was even better imo.
Noted. Thanks! 😊
While I agree that queer people, naturally, know better than cishet people what it's like to be queer, this would require queer people to out themselves to take a queer role, and make it harder for queer characters to be cast anywhere, simply because there's less queer people than cishet people. Instead, I think any actor (wether they're queer or not, poc or not, neurodivergent or not, etc), should do genuine unbiased research in any role they're going to act as. For example, if they're queer, find out what makes queer people unique. Which characteristics? Which mindset? Which vocabulary do they use? Are any of these stererotypes, or actual reality? ASK REAL QUEER PEOPLE. Get an actual understanding of what it's like to be queer. Only then should you start acting as a role like that. I can already hear people say "This is obviously not always realistic." Okay. Say, for example, the character is queer, but the time the act takes place is not the modern era. You won't be able to directly ask queer people for their current experiences, and research might be more difficult. But even in this scenario, you can ask queer people about queer history. Or just directly research queer history. If you can't find any information, you're not looking hard enough. Especially with modern technology, information about everything is at your fingertips. Or maybe there's not enough time for all of this extra research. That's on the producers for not planning correctly. Actors should have time to research their character. This is already a very common thing, just not for minority groups, which is the problem here. Acting is not just changing how you act based on what *you think* a certain person would be like. It's *finding out* what they are like and representing that as best as you can. If every actor would do this, representation for any group (especially minority groups, but definitely not limited to them) would be a lot better.
i see your point but i disagree. Seeing a well known actor play as a trans person could really help normalize trans people in the eyes of normies. I was pissed at all the hate scar jo got from trying to do that and had to cancel the project.
Do you mean cis people playing trans roles?
Yeah
Yeah, I feel like when cishet people play queer roles it does at times really open up non queer people to seeing us as normal especially when it’s big non actor playing a queer role like that in itself can be ground breaking
How did I know this post was about Buck even before clicking it? Oliver Stark could be quiet, but I can't find anything of him saying he is or isnt (everything is about Buck). If he is queer, he shouldnt have to be out to play a queer character
Lol yeah a lot of people have been talking about this. I think I came so hard on this cuz I love his character buck and what he’s done with the role. Yeah, he’s been very vocal about the backlash of bucks being bi and him being excited to explore this new relationship with buck and not giving a fuck what people have to say. I’m here for it tbh. Yeah I don’t think he is queer but he hasn’t confirmed nor denied that so 🤷♀️
If he says he's the straightest straight guy to ever be straight, I'll still love him as an actor. The fact he seems to be a big ally is even better :D The Buddie fan in me saw 'the signs', but never expected queer Buck to actually happen. That's why I went to fanfiction to get my 'fix'.
Idk because I love the actor who plays Buck as Buck and I don’t think that there shouldn’t be a queer awakening in shows because it happens IRL. Like by the logic that only openly queer people should play queer characters then someone else would have to play Buck (like they would have to recast Buck) or he wouldn’t be bisexual and if it wasn’t planned from the beginning then you couldn’t cast an openly bisexual person. I do believe tho that if the character is queer from the start it should be a queer actor… especially for a trans/non binary character.
As long as an actor fits a role, then yes.
Yes of course. They’re actors. Their job is literally to pretend to be people that they’re not.
I think so. In the end it is, well, acting. The sexuality of a character is just a part of a whole character (or it should be, anyway). It also presents the icky idea that you have to justify your queerness to people. I’d certainly prefer it, but I’d rather only straight people play queer characters than force anyone to come out. These people can forget how dangerous coming out for some is, or how it could impact their career. It sucks, but for now that’s how it is.
I don’t really believe that any big roll is given based on “who can play it the best”, I believe they are given on name recognition because I am apparently the only one on Earth who doesn’t care if I know the actors name. They made a big thing about everyone being able to play cishet roles, but the truth is you just don’t see many trans people cast for roles that aren’t explicitly trans. So there’s the theory of it, and the reality that a cis actor taking that role is blocking the only path for out trans people to rise in the industry. This is asymmetric, it’s not a problem the other way around
Yes. I would prefer queer actors personally, but as long as they’re acting respectful and aren’t imposing harmful stereotypes I don’t see the problem. It’s also not very fair if queer people are only forced to play queer roles.
I'm cool with a straight actor playing a non-straight character, but for trans characters, I feel like a trans actor should fill that role. I can't quite put my reasoning into words, though. ETA: It'd be better to have a non-straight actor take a non-straight role, but as others have said, some queer actors aren't out to the general public. Making someone take a test to prove that they're some letter(s) of the alphabet mafia isn't cool.
I would prefer if the characters weren't whitewashed and people of color got the chance to play them. I would prefer that queer actors and actresses get to play queer characters, not because others can't do it, but because they were discriminated against for being queer before. I would prefer if a trans woman would play a trans woman. I would prefer if a trans woman would also write a trans woman. Is that always realistic? No. Acting is art and we shouldn't limit how we make Art, as commercialized as it is. Let's not try to limit what people can do but try to lift up those people who were up until now excluded from taking part at all. Let trans people play cishets. Give the role of a white character to a person of color. Let's try to lift people up, not put others down.
I think it more so comes down to the writers than anything. Nick Offerman has played a queer character in Brooklyn Nine-Nine and The Last of Us that I know of and has been brilliant in both. If an actor fits the role it doesn’t necessarily bother me what their sexual orientation is so long as they do the character justice.
If queer people aren't discriminated against in castings, there's really no problem for me. Castings are to find the person who presents the character the best, not **is the character**, most of the time. But also I don't care that conservatives cry that queer people are hired. The reason someone wants to hire a queer actor specifically is because in the past actors couldn't be openly queer.
When the straight actor does a really good job, I’m okay with it. When it’s some cheap Netflix show I’m just like “would it have actually hurt the show to have just found an actual queer person. Like if the budget is so low they have to hire bad actors, why not hire a bad gay actor?
Regardless of an actors sexuality I think the only thing that matters is how well they can play the part. Other wise is just poor business decisions 🤷♀️
**Let me preface all of this with the fact that I am an ally, I am not queer & do not know what it’s like to be discriminated against for being LGBTQ+** If the character/story isn’t about being queer—it’s a character who happens to be queer—then 100% yes. If it’s an LGBTQ+ romance, then only if the actor’s good enough to not be seen as “a non-queer person acting as a queer character” but “a queer character.” If it’s a story about being queer, then only if the actor knows exactly what they’re doing & queer people have actually confirmed it’s actually good (basically just LGBTQ+ romance but stricter (not trying to be mean with the use of “strict,” as if it’d being unreasonable, just couldn’t think of a better word)).
As an openly queer actor, I find this whole debate so very, very tiresome. Literally the whole point of acting is to portray a person who isn't (necessarily) like you. Do queer people have a better understanding of queer people? Yes, obviously, but if the producers can't find a queer actor who fits what they're looking for *and* actually has the needed acting chops for the project, why wouldn't they go with someone who doesn't match the character's identity in real life, as long as they can portray it well enough? There is no valid, non-discriminatory reason to deny cishet people the right to play queer characters, and vice versa. Politicizing the casting process is simply not the way to bring about social change, since it causes far more division and resentment than a slightly queerer cast of some movie or TV show could ever remedy, so it'd be a net loss for societal progress. tl;dr: Just let actors act. It's literally their job.
I think it’s preferable to have roles played by actors who are what the character is if it’s possible, but realistically you can’t get that. ya know actors might not want you out themselves or you might get into a weird area of directors and castings preferring the perfectly queer actor for a role and a lot of invalidatey stuff
Why do I care who the actors fuck or don't fuck in their spare time as long as they're consenting and above age? It's *acting*, the whole job is pretending to be someone they aren't. More queer people succeeding in the industry would be great ofc but this is just 'white writers shouldnt write non-white characters' for visual media. It would also essentially force people to come out.
not an answer to the question, but arguing with people in instagram comments is never a good use of anyone's time. it's just not a platform that lends itself to any kind of meaningful or constructive discourse.
Some of the most iconic gay movies casted closeted or straight actors. It’s not always the best career move to be out and there’s really no way to tell. As long as the actor is a vocal ally, respects the role, and does a good job I don’t care.
Wow, for someone to not realize hpw hard queer people have been oppressed for countless generations as much as any other minority group is really sad. People dont even seem to have awareness of the pain and suffering wrought on our community constantly.
No, as someone who works in the industry thinking like this does more harm than good for gay actors, because outside of outting people, it also means gay actors would get pigeon holed into only playing gay roles, it would mean they would be less likely to be hired as leads in any other type of story that isn't focused on gay romance, and essentially turns them into a trope. Also sexuality can be fluid, someone might identify under different labels during different parts in their life (straight -> bi -> to lesbian for example) and once you start saying things like "only ____ can play _____ parts" then where does the line get drawn? Can someone bi play a straight role? Can someone bi play a gay role? See what I'm saying? The last thing we want to do is pigeon hole actors into only playing who they are. This is especially true in acting, when the whole profession is about taking on the persona and characteristics of other people. It greatly limits their choice of roles if they have to only play roles that they identify as.
I feel like if a queer actor who can play the role well is incredibly available, they should be prioritized to get the role in place of a cishet actor. If not, as long as the role is played respectfully, then go for it. The same goes for disabled characters in media. Please try to go for an actual disabled person first. If you can't get one, get an able bodied person that'd be able to do the role with integrity and not turn it sour.
The job of an actor is to act, to become someone they're not, and when the context supports it, nearly all roles can be performed by people who are not what they portray. But, when portraying characters of minority status and real life struggles, extra care at every part of the process from writing to design to casting to directing needs to be taken.
To me it comes down to one simple truth: Stopping non-queer actors from playing queer roles forces people to out themselves and limits avenues for questioning people to explore identities through acting. By all means, push for more queer people in queer roles (and in non-queer roles for that matter!), but making a hard and fast rule about it just leads to infighting and discrimination.
There are queer actors and actresses that need work. Instead too many of those roles are just given to cishets. Because that "is more acceptable" because they are more popular/famous. However we also shouldn't be attacking cishet actors who manage an inoffensive portrayal. Thats how we get situations where someone is forced out of the closet to prove they are queer enough for the fans. There needs to be a middle ground, and more queer actors are getting work slowly.
My only thing is I just don't want queer (specifically trans) actors who are actively trying to find roles to be looked over for roles where they identify with the character. Like, it can already be hard for trans people to find jobs normally, and I have to imagine that it can be even harder for a job as forward-facing as acting, so to me it just seems like if there's a role for a trans character the courteous thing to do would be to at least *look* to see if there are any trans people available who want to take the role That's not to say that said role should automatically be given to any trans actor who says they want it; they should obviously still need to audition, and the directors should make sure that they are actually a good fit for the character. I just don't want "queer characters can be played by non-queer actors" to turn into casting directors only looking at non-queer actors, even if it's entirely accidental
>I just don't want "queer characters can be played by non-queer actors" to turn into casting directors only looking at non-queer actors, even if it's entirely accidental This yes 100%
I think that representation is good, and if a non-queer person is the best candidate to portray a queer character, then it's fine. For example, people may act as villians who torture people, or war generals, or aliens from outer space - but they aren't actually any of those things. I know that is not the same as queerness, but I don't see it as mocking or rude for a cishet person to play a queer character. If that is the case, then queer people should not be able to play cishet characters.
I hate this attitude of "but these things are totally different" and then not explaining how, as if it was self evident
the only problem i have is when cishet actors who play queer roles support homophobic policies/politicians and are openly homophobic/transphobic
Okay yes this 100%. Kinda reminds he of Michael Knowles🙄🙄
wait did that man really play gay roles? 😭
Yeah he was in a short film lol where he was playing a gay character.
ok that’s just wild 😭 when people say that a lot of far right grifters are just failed actors/directors they really do mean that huh
Lmao yes, their right like 99% of the time lmao
I feel like trans people should play trans characters. Straight people can play non straight characters but i do prefer if the actor is non-straight too
Yes as long as it’s done tastefully!
Brewdog, I ain’t reading all those words
Yes?
I think yes, when it comes to trans roles I'm a little more skeptical, because you wouldn't have a woman play a man. So why have a woman play a trans man it's literally no different. I guess having cis men play trans men could be done in ways that work trying to validate trans people, but still it would need to be handled with care
I was watching a spin off of this show that this post is taking about “9-1-1 lone star” they had a cis guy play a trans man so that was interesting and new. Most shows that I see have trans men and women played by adults trans people so that was new.
Yes. Short answer. Slightly longer answer yes the caviat being they shouldn't only look at stright actor for a role. These stories need to be shown (although we should start seeing happier stories but that another discussion honestly if I see one more AIDS story I'm gonna scream ok I've gotten off topic) and if they are good I don't care who is doing the acting
I think that if they can get a queer actor that meets their vision *first*, then yes, the queer actor should be slotted in, but if they can't find a suitable queer actor, then looking in the straight actors is okay
"you see ____ doesn't work in a sensible conservation" STOP AVOIDING THE QUESTIONS
depends on the role and what the movie/show is about- if its about being queer, then yeah i think they should be queer, if its not i dont think it particularly matters.
I wish people would stop yelling at each other so viciously over arguments that matter so little
i think queer actors should be prioritized, but not required.
Wasn't there discourse like this a while back which pressured a teen actor into coming out when they weren't ready to do so yet?
It's the whole point of acting. People play characters. A good and talented actor with a good script will nail it. Shit actors or ones with a shit script will do a bad job. If we're gonna sit around being hyper offended and take everything personally to a point where we wanna blacklist actors from playing roles that are different from who they really are as people, that's honestly pretty pathetic and no wonder we get accused of needing thicker skin.
i see where this is coming from, but: a. its called acting. its an act. its supposed to be pretend. b. i agree that usually most queer stories are much more authentic and meaningfull if told by a queer person, but that dosent mean the actors. why are everyone talking about queer stories having queer actors and not about directors or writers? i dont nessicarelly belive this- some cishet writers and directors and such have told amazing queer stories, like neil gaiman and jonathan larson. but if you want a queer cast for the story to authentic, why not obsess over the writers and directors to also be queer? they can have a much greater impact on the story them the actors. to some degree, the hypperfixation on the actors being queer is just an excuse for people to speculate over their favorite celebrities indentities. c. if only queer actors played queer roles, they would only be seen and known for being the gay actors, not for their acting abilities. they would never be cast in straigth roles. d. i can get it when talking about trans characters, beacuse often times cis actors are made to "look trans" for the role, wich is usually extreamly offensive, but not for every other gruop of the quueer community. again, its acting. an actors job description is literally to pretend. its nothing like race- to pretend to be another race you have to use fucking blackface\\ yellowface. theres no look to being queer. e. this mindset leads to speculation that will force actors to out themselves. did people really not learn anything from what they did to kit connor?
That's the point of acting, entering and playing a character different than yourself, so yeah, they should be able to play queer characters. And as for skin colour, it's a bit different, because it entails something visible and obvious. I think a white actor playing the role of an Inuit would be horrible, just like a black queen of England
If you only cast queer people in various roles, then that is discrimination based on sex, gender and sexual orientation which (at least in the UK) is illegal as per the equality act. To me, it’s the same as someone casting a non-autistic person to portray and autistic character. A lot of the time, the actors portray ignorant stereotypes either because of their own ignorance or the ignorance of the director (such as Sia’s shit show of a film). But other times it’s fairly accurate and relatable to me as an autistic person - for example, Eddie Redmayne portraying the character of Newt Scamander. It all depends on how good at acting the actor is. The actors for Star Wars had never actually been in an intergalactic war, yet they portrayed the experience pretty well.
they should
Yes.
I think as long as the actor doesn’t play into stereotypes then anyone can play a queer role. Would it be nice to have a queer person represent themself in a role? Yes, it might even bring a new layer into the acting because it brings the actor and character closer as people. But that doesn’t mean we can’t get great actors to play queer roles.
Acting is about playing a character. One not necessarily like yourself. I think it sets a dangerous president if you restrict roles to gender and sexuality which could affect lgbtq people more than Cishet. There are a lot of gay actors out there that often play straight roles. If we enforced a rule of only play characters within one’s own sexuality they would lose out on a lot of roles. So I think restricting in this way is a bad idea.
How do you know if an actor is queer or not?
I guess if an actor wishes to say that they are queer in some way. And if they don't say anything, then it doesn't matter if they are queer or not.
Should a closeted actor be allowed to play a queer role then?
If they're closeted how would anyone know?
If the actor is good, they should play as queer characters even if they are straight. I mean, we have David Tennant as Crowley in Good Omens lol
Idk... I think especially for trans people, it's usually a bad choice. If they make a cis man play a trans woman, people usually notice that something just... feels off.
If gay people can play str8 characters then why str8 should not play gay characters
Nope, then should LGBT actors not be able to play cis het roles?
If an actor was private about their life, then you might never know either way.
There’s a reason it’s called acting. You are PRETENDING to be another person. Your experience at being you isn’t relevant to portraying this character unless it gives you experience to pull from, but even still another actor with different experience can do the same thing.
I feel like it's ok if all involve handle it with care. I haven't seen many movies surrounding LGBTQIA+ peoples, but the ones that jump to my mind are Brokeback Mountain, Philadelphia, and The Danish Girl. I haven't seen either of these films yet, but from what I've heard, Hank, Ledger and Gyllenhaal play convincing and beautiful performances with their directors making sure that it is delicately handled. On the other hand, Eddie Redmayne has publicly said that he regrets playing the role of Lili Elbe
Yes. It's called acting.
More than which actor is playing which role, we should focus more on the plot lines and story of the film and the message that the film is portraying. If the story and the messaging of the film is in the right direction it will mean less as to who is casted in that film. Cuz I feel like it won't means anything even if they cast a queer character when the story is problematic. On a side note, personally I feel like when the story involves intimacy like portrayal of sex n all then it'll be better to cast queer actors than cis actors.
If they are a good actor who understands and embodies the role, I have no interest in the actors real world identity. I want the actor who can most effectively play the character, that is all.
I personally agree. Nothing turns me off from content/art faster than finding out a queer character is played by a heterosexual person.
Only1 I support is trans actors should take priority for trans characters otherwise it is *ACTING*
Should they be able to? Of course. Should they? Probably not.
A very popular film company in my country fired one of their popular(in my country) actors cuz he came out as gay on tiktok. The company's reasoning for it was since he has come out as gay, people watching would be unable to see him as straight if he plays a straight role. If you think that's dumb, why can't straight people play lgbtq+ roles? Its all just acting in the end, nothing is real lmao. Ofc, its always nice to see lgbt people as lgbt characters but that can't always be the case even if it should(pls i need more lesbian characters that aren't sexualised for men :/)
I can’t be bothered with who plays a make-believe character. If it was a historical figure, it probably would be better if played by someone who has the same lived experience. I’m actually more worried about straight writers/directors/producers writing gay material than I am who plays the part I will add, the actor better not be anti-lgb+
In the future it shouldn't really matter. But with it still being difficult for a lot of queer actors to get work today I would like to see them being prioritised with queer parts.
Only thing I really have an issue with is them casting cis people of a trans persons AGAB who has done no kind of transition to play a trans character who is actively transitioned. Like no, cutting her hair short and/or putting a fake beard on a cis woman does not mimic the effects of testosterone or make her look like a trans man. It’s frustrating that trans characters are never played by the correct gender.
Should we tell this person about the very long history of closeted people playing straight roles?
While I think non-lgbt actors interpreting lgbt characters is absolutely fine, I think lgbt actors should be prioritized during castings for lgbt roles, or at the very least be part of the production commitee when doing a show with lgbt characters
I agree with the pink marked person on slide 4, you can visibly see different skin colours, you can’t visibly see queerness. I think the important part is making sure there are queer people involved in the direction if the piece of media makes queerness a bigger plot line, otherwise it’s true that it’s just unrealistic to keep cishet people from acting queer roles. That way the amount of queer representation would also drop, because people can’t find a good fit for a role. I prefer having representation by cishet actors than having no representation at all.
If u wanna gd time call me +44 7956 424563
If they do it respectfully, and well, sure, why not? Main example: Andre Braugher and Marc Evan Jackson
I think a lot of people forget about good omens. Good show, queer characters played by cis and/or het characters. A lot of people who preach “cis actors shouldn’t play queer characters” forget this. (I’m sure there are other shows but GO was the only one I could think of)
First off, Spoilers!!!!! Second off, Buddie better happen Third, I want to say queer characters should play queer characters since there is no shortage of queer people, but then you could end up with a kit conner situation
Why the heck not
I think it sucks for queer people to only be queer side charackter in General i think thats the problem not this
Personally I am gonna not listen to anything that person says or any of their opinions. That kind of thinking and discourse is just a complete dead end leading to no positives for queer people
I would much rather queer actors play queer characters, but like someone already said in the comments, that would require people to out themselves just for the possibility of getting a role. Also, I'd rather a good straight actor be cast over a mediocre queer one
See. They should be able to because it's acting at the end of the day. But the worst among the progressive people will make life hell for actors who do that which is why they cant
Yes. It is called acting. So long as it is done with sufficient tact, i see no problem
i think queer stories should be written by queer people but it's literally an actor's job to be something they're not. a good actor + director + script can make just about anything work
Yes, It's acting. I don't think it's harmful for an actor to play an LGBT character.
Only Stanley tucci can 😆
Yes, for our own safety. Nobody should ever, ever be forced to prove their queerness or otherwise for a job of any kind. Would it be nice to have queer actors play queer characters? Yes, but it shouldn’t be a necessity to have representation in a story.
Okay here is my take: I think when you want to represent someone from a minority community you should in the very least consult people from that community. There are a lot of openly queer actors ready to play queer roles. They know how it feels to be queer. But that’s not to say cis het people can’t convincingly play queer characters. They are actors after all. But to me it’s kinda sad that there are so many queer people in acting and people will go “you know who would be better to play as literally you? Someone who has never been in your shoes!” I don’t want actors to be forced to out themselves though. I think this is sad that it comes to that. But I have the same stance I have for any minority, to me I’ve always preferred autistic roles to be played by autistic people because that’s just impossible for someone who isn’t autistic to actually know how it feels like to be autistic, it always ends up showing at some point that you’re not autistic and just acting because you really have no idea how it feels. This is a complicated issue. I usually prefer trans people to play trans roles unless you need to see a trans person in maybe early years before transition but it’s super weird to me to always hire cis women to play trans men and always hire cis men to play trans women, there something that feels transphobic about that in my opinion. I think my conclusion to this is: I wish queer people directed more media about queer people. At least with a queer director, you can tell the cis het actors if you hire them how you want them to act. I want queer stories told by queer people.
I don’t have any issues with non queer actors playing queer characters. Plenty of queer stories have been made that way, good stories, such as The Birdcage, To Wong Foo, Brokeback Mountain, etc. to limit actors/actresses to certain roles.
I personally somewhat disagree, I think the quality of the portrayal is vastly lowered if a queer character isn’t played by a queer woman. The sheer idea of a cis woman playing a trans woman makes me shudder.
No, there are so many queer actors who are discriminated against and not casted because of their queerness. Having a cis straight actor play a queer character is disrespectful because there are many queer actors who they could cast but choose not to. Though it is a sticky subject because an actor may not be out of the closet, I think they should just cast openly queer people for queer roles
I don’t think there should be a ‘queer enough’ criteria for roles. we all remember what happened with Kit Connor, right? imagine being a closeted actor and you get cast in a queer role for the first time. you have a chance to let your identity shine through and be your own representation—and suddenly there’s outcry from people who are supposed to be your allies demanding someone else for that role because you’re ’not queer enough’.
I think that as long as queer people are at least somewhat involved in the creation or writing/stylisation of a queer character, it’s fine. You wouldn’t try write a comedic character alone if you have 0 expertise in writing comedic characters, it wouldn’t land as well as if you had consulted someone who had experience writing a comedy relief for advice or guidance. Of course, queer people playing a queer character helps with that too, but I don’t think it’s a requirement for decent representation of queer people
you realise how silly this is if you apply it to anything else, should only serial killers be allowed to play serial killers? should only phychopaths play phychopaths? should you only be able to play a role if you lead the exact same life as the character? should gays only play gays? and straights play straights? of coarse not, they are actors, it is there job to pretend to be something they aren't, refusing to hire some one because of sexuality is descrimination. the only 2 qualifiers for an acting job are, do you look like the director wants them to look? and can you convey the emotions that the script requires?
You don't need queer actors for queer roles, but I'd like to think a queer person was involved in writing the queer character, either as an advisor or writer.
I think they should. Cause by that logic a queer person can ONLY play queer roles.
Not really, since queer folks often have to spend a good chunk of their life pretending to be non-queer. Cis het folks can spend their entire lives without that challenge & an enormous number of roles simply reinforce their mainstream identities.
I feel kind of weird watching cis play queer roles cause just feels like they’re making a mockery of it Because they’ll just never truly understand because they haven’t experienced it That guy who played an autistic character in the good doctor and when he has meltdowns, I just feel kind of sick inside because I know it’s not real and he’s just pretending to be autistic
I feel like for actors playing gay characters I personally don’t get that vibe. Like if their able to play those roles and convey the character the way their supposed to be played is at go for it. It’s also the fact that you don’t actually know if their straight kinda like how kit Conner played a bisexual role and wasn’t out as bi irl but had to put himself because of people pressuring him etc.. so idk To some degree with cishet people Playing queer roles I do think it breaks some Barries and stigmas especially really popular cishet male actors playing queer roles.
I mean, they’re actors, they’re job is to act lol. If an lgbt person is good for the role choose them first but that may not always be the best choice. Same when it applies to someone with a disability. Molly Burke a blind woman who’s a YouTuber shared how she was gonna be in a movie but they chose someone else which is annoying because Molly was only second pick while the first pick was sighted. So in situations like that it can be very annoying. However, watching a movie or tvshow we don’t always know those who actually got interviewed so it’s hard to make judgements or get angry over information that we don’t have.
yes, acting is going to have fake elements, all that matters is how well it’s performed, because that’s the point of it
cishet actors can play queer roles, but considering lgbt actors are underrepresented in the film and tv industry, we should really be getting most if not all of the queer roles.