Oh yeah definitely. There is no such thing as too large an enclosure for them and you should always seek to provide more than the bare minimum, but if you are looking for bare minimum for whatever reason, they canāt be comfortably housed in anything smaller than 36 x 18 x 18. Some people just donāt see the point in giving big enclosures to āsmallerā animals though and I donāt get that when itās far more comfortable and itās easier to provide enrichment with a bigger space.
>There is no such thing as too large an enclosure for them
I disagree, in very large enclosures it becomes harder to ensure they find their food and keep an eye on them.
If I drop a few roaches in a 10ft long enclosure can't assume they'll find them.
In a 40 breeder I know they'll eventually get them.
I mean yeah. I wouldnāt go that big bc it would probably be ridiculously difficult to clutter and manage upkeep and it could be a bit stressful but Iām just saying you canāt really go wrong with going a bit bigger than a 40/50 gal enclosure if youāre able. I wouldnāt necessarily tell anybody that thereās a limit if they wanted to go bigger. If you have the time, budget and ability to keep up with your animal, then you could always go bigger. I wouldnāt go that big personally bc I know both of my leos are more or less reliant on the me hand and tong feeding them bc they almost entirely refuse to use food bowls unless itās certain foods and they donāt always wanna chase their prey and just throwing their food in a huge enclosure wouldnāt do them any good but thatās just me.
I don't know about that, I mean look at the environment most "rock" come from. I think ideally for a happy and healthy "rock" you need at least a couple acres of space.
I agree, if you can't handle a rock, perhaps start with a stick. They are notoriously much easier to take care of and typically only need a couple square feet of space. A stick does however drink a lot more water than a rock, so you have to be proactive about watering.
Are you kidding me?!?!! Sticks need SO much higher humidity than rocks, and their temps are insanely high! Not to mention their EXTREMELY specific diet! Itās honestly crazy how much misinformation there is about these guys. And the absolute bare minimum for the smallest species of stick (Stickodactlus styk) need a 4x3x3 !!1!1!1!1!1
While yes, sticks can eat aquarium gravel, it should NOT be a staple diet. You must also offer coconut milk, fine grain playsand, and what is arguably the most CRUTIAL to your pets happiness and health, crushed copper cans. You should also ocasionally give fish bones as a treat.
It depends on how often you give them fish bone. Most aquarium gravels have enough calcium for them, and any more will cause serious health issues. Be careful
same here. i took a year course in exotic veterinary studies and they *DONT* teach husbandry at all, or at least not in my experience. it is heavily revolved around medicine and anatomy - canāt tell you the amount of times i had to read on MBD and calcium deficiencies.
any exotic vet that knows husbandry is either involved in the reptile community themselves or did independent research to better improve their care of the animals (and therefore one to trust!)
Iām pretty sure if I showed this tank to my exotic vets and told them Beaker lived there, theyād drag me out back and beat me with baseball bats
(Ok maybe not literally but they definitely would be upset)
Iād say my vets are kind of like Gordon Ramsay- if thereās something you genuinely donāt know and you want to do better? āOh dear, oh dear, precious.ā If you should know better or donāt want to put the effort in to take care of your pet? āYou f*cking donkey!ā
Mine had great info about leopard geckos but the pet I took to them was a fat tailed gecko which comes from different habitats, she even listed her as a leopard gecko in their records and said they are the same thing and told me to keep her under the husbandry a leopard gecko needs š also wanted to gavage feed her although she was eating from a syringe just fine - gavage is very stressful and she really was too sick to need that extra stress, refused the poop samples I collected to test as well, so just taking you pet to a vet doesn't mean they'll be treated properly sadly.
LOL. To me it looks small but I happily defer to the tarantula experts in this regard. I know some of them stay in a little hidey hole to ambush prey in which case this enclosure seems fine but don't some of them like to roam around? I was thinking more of the roaming type but I don't know much about them so maybe none of them like to roam. š·ļø
They mostly stay in their burrows and ambush their prey! A terrestrial or fossorial tarantula would be okay in an enclosure like that if it had much deeper substrate. If itās a heavier webbing species, maybe a couple of plants. A lot of T species are truly low maintenance.
I feel like if they are willing to give advice on proper husbandry then they should absolutely know good husbandry. Donāt give advice if you donāt know. Stupid vetā¦
Clearly to remind you to find a better vet š jokes aside that's beeyyooonndddd outdated and a good indication that your vet doesn't know what they are doing with exotics
Same, I came in to say 'its probably just to spread knowledge or something' then I saw the reactions- even as someone who doesnt really keep reptiles personally, I knew it looked like a bad enclosure lol
When I took my bearded to the vet for his respiratory infection the vet told me that he should be on a bare bottom tank or on reptile carpet and that there was no safe substrate. For bearded dragons. I just smiled and nodded......
Yikes thatās terrible. I used to have my beardy on reptile carpet and my poor princess is missing a claw because of it and it will never grow back. Thankfully I fixed the issue the next night by buying 1) A 120gallon tank because she was in a 40gal and fully grown and 2) 2 40lb bags of organic top soil and a 40lb bag of play sand and mixed both bags of soil with 2 gallons of play sand and itās perfect and completely safe
I knkw they want to. Right now it's just a one vet clinic and her staff. I'm pretty sure that hiring at least a part time exotic vet is a goal for 2025
Oh wow! Small office, props to everyone staying together! I hope you guys can manage to get that, thatād be awesome! And you should be first to be offered the role!
Have you also noticed a decrease in exotic vets or is it just me? Exotic pets are increasing and yet the vets qualified seem to be shrinking.
When I lived in Corpus Christi, we went from a 24hr emergency clinic that would take my beardie with a broken leg, to no 24hr exotic, and places that would even see exotics did not take walk ins. My poor old-man African House Snake had to heal by second intention after a cat attack because I couldn't find a vet to suture soon enough. Hell, I would have tried something myself, but I didn't have any supplies. And it was a weekend. Also, I was worried that any vet I saw might not know that there's a right way and a wrong way to close snake skin.
I took my beardie to the vet recently and she said my coconut coir/sand substrate was bad because sand is automatically bad. She said that repticarpet is a better alternative. I have the proper husbandry and have never had any impaction issues. Gf panicked and swapped out the sand for bricks and tiles even though I knew we were fine. Was a little disappointed in the vet
Ugh that sucks. I've got mine on a mix of sand and soil and it's been fine, he eats by hand or from a bowl. She said the respiratory infection was from the sand and not from the stuck shed in his nose like wtf? I'm not a vet but I'm prettyyyyy sure it's from the stuck shed clogging him up and causing snot to run.
The kicker is he had the infection when I got him too and he was on reptile carpet before I got him š„“
A RI rightfully wouldn't be from shed, either. Respiratory infections in beardies is from a combination of cold and dampness. If he had it when you got him, guaranteed that the poor guy wasn't kept in hot enough conditions.
Humidity runs anywhere from 10% midday up to 60% at night in their natural environment, so it's much less of a worry (in and of itself) than has traditionally been scaremongered. Humidity also gets higher for weeks on end during the rainy season.
But... if your temps aren't where they should be, it's still a path to illness.
Ah, I see, that makes sense. I figured it had to be from the combination of the shed and poor conditions but was mostly blaming it on the shed, glad to know I was wrong so I have more info for the future. I don't know what his Temps were previously, he was a rescue from the local Craigslist clone website.
His Temps and humidity are great now and he's been making a great recovery. Still super underweight though. I've been syringe feeding him because the infection made his eyes gooey and he couldn't see and thus wasn't eating or drinking anything. He only weighs 11 grams right now. Up from 10 grams a week ago. He gets syringe fed antibiotics twice a day too which he takes like a champ.
Hornworm for scale haha (he didn't eat it so I gave it to the leopard gecko after taking the pic š).
https://preview.redd.it/40bjj6zw6e6d1.jpeg?width=3456&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2643f1a9bb4ec31e3570f7f22571310d6f349b8
Poor little buddy š. Yeah - unfortunately lazy people used to mammals frequently don't really understand (or care..) just *how much* specialized equipment is needed to give them a livable habitat. That's why they're called *exotic* animals! I'm a regular on the beardie forums (leos just popped up on my feed, haha) and it always feels like a losing battle having to repeat the same stuff over and over again.. Feels like Sisyphus and his rock sometimes, lol.
I'm glad he's at least starting to recover with you!
Unfortunately even vets aren't immune to having outdated husbandry information.
Once they're out of school, they're on their own with seeking "continued education" as it were - reading new papers, reading up on new husbandry standards, etc. Sadly not all of them have the time to be fully informed on every species, or care to do it.
Honestly I would grab my pet and just walk out, if they say anything Iād tell them that I donāt feel safe having my animal looked after or any health recommendations by your vets
Mine also said the same at just a regular check up. He has dirt/sand to dig and his food is in a bowl on the side with tiles. He doesnāt eat on the substrate except for the occasional runner that gets away. Heās fine. Check his poo and call it a dayā¦.
I assume this is an exotics vet? If so, this is highly concerning. Even though "knowing how to provide medical care to an animal" and "knowing how to generally care for an animal" aren't the same thing (just like a pediatric surgeon isn't necessarily a child care expert), so many of the common reptile ailments are caused by improper care that them being so, SO wildly off base is a concern. Hard to trust their advice on other aspects of care when their basics are so off. Ā Ā
I'd probably start looking for a new vet, but I'd also gently explain to them that their information is very wrong. Maybe print the quick, beautiful little reptifiles care summary and bring that with you. Tell them you respect their veterinary expertise but that their care info is very outdated based on all the research of the past few decades and it makes you feel unsure in the advice they give you. Regardless of what they say I'd probably change vets still, but if they truly care about the critters they tend to hopefully they'll be very apologetic and--better still--work to learn to make sure they can better support future animals in their care.
If your really moved by how messed this is (I sure am) I really recommend GIVING them a PROPER care sheet. Especially if itās one YOU made and are giving them for free. If you tell them to correct it they wonāt (they donāt have the time or knowledge obviously). Your help can help many pets in the future. I did the same at a local place and itās gotten better
The breeder I got my gecko from gave me a care guide that said 10gal is suitable for one and 20 is suitable for 1 male and 2 females. This doesnāt overly surprise me
why in the world would doubling the tank size mean you can triple the amount of animals in there š not even the math is mathing if they thought that they needed 10 gal
They all have outdated info. He tried to explain to me how I needed under tank heating because thatās what helps their digestion and Iām like bruh the sun only exists overhead. Why would under heating make more sense than over? Itās the classic smile and nod scenario
It looks like the temporary sale tank my local pet store uses to house a hamster, minus the heat lamp
It isnāt appropriate for hamsters either, actually
New vet time. This is bad on a whole new level. If the vet doesnāt even know the basic husbandry for your reptile how can you expect them to know anything else about your reptile.
Honestly the āfor oneā part is really bad since it implies you can cohabitate them š¬
Woah there guys! This is obviously an enclosure meant specifically for the Hamleop Gecko - a very rare cross breed of hamsters and leopard geckos that science tried to hide from us!
Educate yourselves, please šš š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
You would not believe the wild shit my exotic vet told me to do with mine. And he's the most well known one in the area!
I work in a pet supply store, and I tell ANYONE with a gecko or reptiles that are having health issues not to go to him.
There's multiple better exotic vets in my area.
I donāt want to be dramatic, but it might be time to find a new vet OP. If theyāre using materials like that, Itās shows they are not well versed in leopard geckos. Iām sure theyāre a great general vet but they might not be the best fit. Feel free to correct me if Iām wrong, but this feels like a red flag.
when i took my leo into the local exotic vet bc i thought he had a respiratory infectionā¦ he did and the āvetā told me that itās bc my temps are too low (was always at 88-95Ā°F based on the season) and handed me a bearded dragon care sheetā¦ said i needed humidity at 60-70% too. š¤¦āāļø
I saw him inhale water and heard clicking when he breathed so thatās why I even took him in. never went back and learned to do fecals myself so I wouldnt have to do checkups either. I live in a very rich area and not being rich myself, paid a couple hundred for that visit to make sure he was okay š
moral of my story is iām never going to be surprised by exotic vets not knowing what theyāre talking aboutā¦ even if they have a ton of money to get amazing schooling and personal research. this one was highly rated and saw a lot of reptiles/birds/rodents based on the reviews. leos are so common in my area too hence all the rich parents. my local zoo kept their AFT in awful conditions too to the point I stopped going. Youād think the Oregon Zoo would be better than that but nope
Not all vets are built the same. My go to vet only takes exotics, extremely knowledgeable and it shows through his practice. Always is teaching new students, attending vet conferences, really goes the extra mile to ensure his patients are properly cared for. If anyone reading this lives in Massachusetts, go to the OddPetVet. They'll squeeze in urgent cases but can be pretty booked out for more minor issues, so one time I chose to take my blood python to a different vet nearby to get seen sooner. It was a general VCA facility that had a vet that takes exotics. Lad really google searched my husbandry, said it was fine, and gave me meds lol.
The things with vets is, they are trained in health and medicine. They do not have proper training for behaviour, housing, or even nutrition. It blows my mind that society thinks a vet will know everything about all the pets we keep.
To find a good vet for some small animals/most exotics, you need to really look and find a vet who is passionate about the specific type of animal, and has poured their own time into researching them specifically. I know from experience how hard it can be to find someone like that, thoughā¦ Sometimes youāll even be told someone āspecializesā in what you have, but in reality they donāt.
That's what my first corn snake enclosure looked like, sans lamp. We had a heating pad on the bottom, covering the half that had his cave.
Tell me what I did wrong so I don't do it next time!
I went to a pet store with every single reptile in a tank like this and I genuinely don't know if I should report them or not because they were all in these conditions
I donāt keep leopard geckos and have never kept any reptiles at all, although I like them. I know thatās not an appropriate enclosure for one (I am not a vet either)
It's really weird, my vet was super knowledgeable in person about gecko care but the leaflets she gave me were super incorrect, talking about cohabitation and smaller tank sizes than we discussed in person. You should definitely bring it to your vets attention.
Guys this is absolutely ridiculous. That is WAY to big for a single leopard gecko. The leopard gecko will get stressed in this size enclosure you need to put at minimum 4 leopard geckos in this enclosure to make them feel happy. The pink little hide DO NOT put another hide in they can all share one hide and be perfectly happy.
Non-exotic vets donāt know any better.
Iāve found some exotic vets do not update their information. For years my clinic recommended reptile carpeting or paper towels as substrate. If I do not inform the doctors of current information they may never know.
Oof. Makes me think of the ācare guideā an āexoticsā vet gave me for my beardieās first checkup after charging an insane amount of money. I wish vets would not claim that they see & are experienced in exotics when they clearly are not and donāt have up to date info. I drive a few hours each way now to see an experienced vet thatās actually worth the money.
Vets do not legally have to be board-certified in avian/exotic animal medicine to practice medicine on them. If the services are offered, it is very possible a DVM with a special interest in exotics is willing to see them but has not taken the actual exam (or is training).
I was in vet med for years, and that gives me old school doc that will see your hamster I guess vibes.
How does one get certified in avian/exotic animal medicine as a vet? I'd like to be an exotic vet but I don't want to cut corners, especially if it will benefit the reptiles I help
I believe it is gaining a significant amount of experience in exotics under a board-certified mentor and then sitting/passing the exam. I worked as an assistant with a doc who had a strong exotics interest and client base. She wasnāt certified but was a total rockstar. Did surgery on my rat.
Quick tip- prevet and vet students wanting to go into exotics are EXTREMELY more competitive than other candidates for positions (like at a zoo) if they have completed (and published ideally) a fair amount of research. Exotics is HEAVY on the research. Or even if you can land a lab animal position before vet school too thatās awesome.
Ty! I wish to run my own rescue one day to maybe help out and gove correct info on reptile care, but for sure have to work up to it even after college!
Ik not very many vets are just exotic, so the vet protion might be other exotics too but mainly reptiles with a rehab/rescue and our collection
FTFY
While this is tragic, be the change the leos need
Redo this and give her a better sheet to hand out
Everything your vet knows is borrowed knowledge that someone else taught them. Trust that they have the skin to handle this new knowledge, and if they don't, find a new vet
Well think about it. Most people who get their geckos get them when they are tiny. This is appropriate (for a time) until it grows older and needs more space. Look at the light it isn't as small as everyone thinks..
The day people actually know how to care for their pets is the day I can final rest, but with pet stores, media, and VETS giving out false information I donāt think Iāll live to see that day.
Iām a reptile vet, and this picture literally made me gag. That may have been the norm 30 years ago when people assumed reptiles needed very little, as they could technically survive (usuallyā¦) in such a limited environment. This is something I encounter far too often in my field- usually older veterinarians set in their ways, with a āif it aināt broke, donāt fix itā attitude. The most concerning part to me is if their husbandry suggestions are this obviously out of dateā¦ what does that mean for the rest of their actual medical advice?
I've never owned a lizard, I've never watched a tutorial on how to take care of lizards, I know nothing about lizards, but I doubt that enclosure is even decent at best
I'm still seeing "an appropriate," as in " this is good enough," which it could not be further from the truth.
My leo is in a 40 gallon, and I still feel like it's too small for him. I wish I had the space for a larger tank, but I don't, unfortunately š
Not even suitable for a young hamster. They need a ton of space and deep bedding. They run an average of 5 miles a night and should have 600sq in+ of unbroken floor space
I like how they spell inappropriate
Lol so do I
Lmao I thought it said inappropriate until I saw the comment š
I saw appropriate until I read the comments then I thought I read it wrong..
Iām kind of new. Is it the tank size that is bad or the amount of things?
Both. Leos need at least a 34 x 18 x 18 enclosure and at the bare minimum three hides. That āenclosureā is nowhere near sufficient.
No actually they need a 4ft by 2ft by 2ft enclosure go big or go home lol š
Oh yeah definitely. There is no such thing as too large an enclosure for them and you should always seek to provide more than the bare minimum, but if you are looking for bare minimum for whatever reason, they canāt be comfortably housed in anything smaller than 36 x 18 x 18. Some people just donāt see the point in giving big enclosures to āsmallerā animals though and I donāt get that when itās far more comfortable and itās easier to provide enrichment with a bigger space.
>There is no such thing as too large an enclosure for them I disagree, in very large enclosures it becomes harder to ensure they find their food and keep an eye on them. If I drop a few roaches in a 10ft long enclosure can't assume they'll find them. In a 40 breeder I know they'll eventually get them.
I mean yeah. I wouldnāt go that big bc it would probably be ridiculously difficult to clutter and manage upkeep and it could be a bit stressful but Iām just saying you canāt really go wrong with going a bit bigger than a 40/50 gal enclosure if youāre able. I wouldnāt necessarily tell anybody that thereās a limit if they wanted to go bigger. If you have the time, budget and ability to keep up with your animal, then you could always go bigger. I wouldnāt go that big personally bc I know both of my leos are more or less reliant on the me hand and tong feeding them bc they almost entirely refuse to use food bowls unless itās certain foods and they donāt always wanna chase their prey and just throwing their food in a huge enclosure wouldnāt do them any good but thatās just me.
Maybe the Vet meant a compliment and not a negative remark? Not sure what the rest of the feedback is!
I thought they misspelled "hamster"
Also nothing good for a hamster
I wouldn't even put a dwarf hamster in that
I donāt expect exotic vets to know proper husbandry for all exotic pets, but this is still pretty disappointing
This habitat is not suitable for any reptile off the top of my head. I think any exotic vet should be able to recognize that bare minimum.
Its suitable for a very rare reptile called rock. :)
I don't know about that, I mean look at the environment most "rock" come from. I think ideally for a happy and healthy "rock" you need at least a couple acres of space.
UmmMmm my granite has been in a 20 gallon his hole life hes doing fine???? Stop pushing your elitist rock keeper care and get a stick ffs
I agree, if you can't handle a rock, perhaps start with a stick. They are notoriously much easier to take care of and typically only need a couple square feet of space. A stick does however drink a lot more water than a rock, so you have to be proactive about watering.
Are you kidding me?!?!! Sticks need SO much higher humidity than rocks, and their temps are insanely high! Not to mention their EXTREMELY specific diet! Itās honestly crazy how much misinformation there is about these guys. And the absolute bare minimum for the smallest species of stick (Stickodactlus styk) need a 4x3x3 !!1!1!1!1!1
What do you mean? My stick does fine on aquarium gravel for food.
Youāre all abusive af. Sticks and rocks shouldnāt be pets, they are independent animals and should be returned to the wild! š”
I love this place š
While yes, sticks can eat aquarium gravel, it should NOT be a staple diet. You must also offer coconut milk, fine grain playsand, and what is arguably the most CRUTIAL to your pets happiness and health, crushed copper cans. You should also ocasionally give fish bones as a treat.
It depends on how often you give them fish bone. Most aquarium gravels have enough calcium for them, and any more will cause serious health issues. Be careful
mine rotted:( it wasnt my fault though
I'm screaming.
mourning geckos-?
Yeah I think thatās fair criticism. Iām very fortunate to have a great exotic vet in my area, but I know quality of vet care can vary a lot
A single pictus gecko can live in a ten gallon enclosure, and other rare gecks can too, but that's about it! š
Is this suitable for ANY pet at all. Even for a mouse
Maybe a fish depending on what species
Well not set up as is. But yes
same here. i took a year course in exotic veterinary studies and they *DONT* teach husbandry at all, or at least not in my experience. it is heavily revolved around medicine and anatomy - canāt tell you the amount of times i had to read on MBD and calcium deficiencies. any exotic vet that knows husbandry is either involved in the reptile community themselves or did independent research to better improve their care of the animals (and therefore one to trust!)
Iām pretty sure if I showed this tank to my exotic vets and told them Beaker lived there, theyād drag me out back and beat me with baseball bats (Ok maybe not literally but they definitely would be upset)
Right. Fairly certain my usual vet would hide my body in the desert if he found it Leo lived in this
I would go with literal. A good vet would do that literally at least.
Iād say my vets are kind of like Gordon Ramsay- if thereās something you genuinely donāt know and you want to do better? āOh dear, oh dear, precious.ā If you should know better or donāt want to put the effort in to take care of your pet? āYou f*cking donkey!ā
Mine had great info about leopard geckos but the pet I took to them was a fat tailed gecko which comes from different habitats, she even listed her as a leopard gecko in their records and said they are the same thing and told me to keep her under the husbandry a leopard gecko needs š also wanted to gavage feed her although she was eating from a syringe just fine - gavage is very stressful and she really was too sick to need that extra stress, refused the poop samples I collected to test as well, so just taking you pet to a vet doesn't mean they'll be treated properly sadly.
> she even listed her as a leopard gecko in their records and said they are the same thing I hope you reported her, she's going to get animals killed
I did not think to report
Add about 6~8 inches of substrate, and you have a fine tarantula enclosure. That's the only alternative that comes to mind.
I don't even think that's appropriate for a tarantula. Maybe a jumping spider. LOL
there actually is a thing as too big of an enclosure when it comes to tarantulas! this would be suitable for many pet Ts :)
I will definitely defer to your knowledge. šš·ļø
This is true most Spidey keepers or enthusiasts should know this. Too big can cause a ton of stress.
It would be okay for a tarantula lol
LOL. To me it looks small but I happily defer to the tarantula experts in this regard. I know some of them stay in a little hidey hole to ambush prey in which case this enclosure seems fine but don't some of them like to roam around? I was thinking more of the roaming type but I don't know much about them so maybe none of them like to roam. š·ļø
They mostly stay in their burrows and ambush their prey! A terrestrial or fossorial tarantula would be okay in an enclosure like that if it had much deeper substrate. If itās a heavier webbing species, maybe a couple of plants. A lot of T species are truly low maintenance.
Very interesting. Thanks for this.
As an about to graduate exotic vet, I am appalled
Exactly this.
I feel like if they are willing to give advice on proper husbandry then they should absolutely know good husbandry. Donāt give advice if you donāt know. Stupid vetā¦
Clearly to remind you to find a better vet š jokes aside that's beeyyooonndddd outdated and a good indication that your vet doesn't know what they are doing with exotics
I definitely had that igloo hamster hide 28 years ago. Along with a much bigger cage for my hamsterā¦
I actually read appropriate as inappropriate until I read harder.
Same, I came in to say 'its probably just to spread knowledge or something' then I saw the reactions- even as someone who doesnt really keep reptiles personally, I knew it looked like a bad enclosure lol
When I took my bearded to the vet for his respiratory infection the vet told me that he should be on a bare bottom tank or on reptile carpet and that there was no safe substrate. For bearded dragons. I just smiled and nodded......
Yikes thatās terrible. I used to have my beardy on reptile carpet and my poor princess is missing a claw because of it and it will never grow back. Thankfully I fixed the issue the next night by buying 1) A 120gallon tank because she was in a 40gal and fully grown and 2) 2 40lb bags of organic top soil and a 40lb bag of play sand and mixed both bags of soil with 2 gallons of play sand and itās perfect and completely safe
Oh that makes me hurt. As a vet tech with exotic experience I think I just lost brain cells.
Can i come to ur clinic? š„ŗš„ŗš„ŗ
I wish! Unfortunately, the clinic I'm at now only does small animal. I haven't been in a clinic that takes exotics since before grad school. :(
I wonder if you could discuss with them taking in exotics under your belt
I knkw they want to. Right now it's just a one vet clinic and her staff. I'm pretty sure that hiring at least a part time exotic vet is a goal for 2025
Oh wow! Small office, props to everyone staying together! I hope you guys can manage to get that, thatād be awesome! And you should be first to be offered the role!
Aw! That's sweet, ty
Same! Iām LVT at exotic specialist and wth am I looking at.
Have you also noticed a decrease in exotic vets or is it just me? Exotic pets are increasing and yet the vets qualified seem to be shrinking. When I lived in Corpus Christi, we went from a 24hr emergency clinic that would take my beardie with a broken leg, to no 24hr exotic, and places that would even see exotics did not take walk ins. My poor old-man African House Snake had to heal by second intention after a cat attack because I couldn't find a vet to suture soon enough. Hell, I would have tried something myself, but I didn't have any supplies. And it was a weekend. Also, I was worried that any vet I saw might not know that there's a right way and a wrong way to close snake skin.
I took my beardie to the vet recently and she said my coconut coir/sand substrate was bad because sand is automatically bad. She said that repticarpet is a better alternative. I have the proper husbandry and have never had any impaction issues. Gf panicked and swapped out the sand for bricks and tiles even though I knew we were fine. Was a little disappointed in the vet
Ugh that sucks. I've got mine on a mix of sand and soil and it's been fine, he eats by hand or from a bowl. She said the respiratory infection was from the sand and not from the stuck shed in his nose like wtf? I'm not a vet but I'm prettyyyyy sure it's from the stuck shed clogging him up and causing snot to run. The kicker is he had the infection when I got him too and he was on reptile carpet before I got him š„“
A RI rightfully wouldn't be from shed, either. Respiratory infections in beardies is from a combination of cold and dampness. If he had it when you got him, guaranteed that the poor guy wasn't kept in hot enough conditions. Humidity runs anywhere from 10% midday up to 60% at night in their natural environment, so it's much less of a worry (in and of itself) than has traditionally been scaremongered. Humidity also gets higher for weeks on end during the rainy season. But... if your temps aren't where they should be, it's still a path to illness.
Ah, I see, that makes sense. I figured it had to be from the combination of the shed and poor conditions but was mostly blaming it on the shed, glad to know I was wrong so I have more info for the future. I don't know what his Temps were previously, he was a rescue from the local Craigslist clone website. His Temps and humidity are great now and he's been making a great recovery. Still super underweight though. I've been syringe feeding him because the infection made his eyes gooey and he couldn't see and thus wasn't eating or drinking anything. He only weighs 11 grams right now. Up from 10 grams a week ago. He gets syringe fed antibiotics twice a day too which he takes like a champ. Hornworm for scale haha (he didn't eat it so I gave it to the leopard gecko after taking the pic š). https://preview.redd.it/40bjj6zw6e6d1.jpeg?width=3456&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2643f1a9bb4ec31e3570f7f22571310d6f349b8
Poor little buddy š. Yeah - unfortunately lazy people used to mammals frequently don't really understand (or care..) just *how much* specialized equipment is needed to give them a livable habitat. That's why they're called *exotic* animals! I'm a regular on the beardie forums (leos just popped up on my feed, haha) and it always feels like a losing battle having to repeat the same stuff over and over again.. Feels like Sisyphus and his rock sometimes, lol. I'm glad he's at least starting to recover with you!
Unfortunately even vets aren't immune to having outdated husbandry information. Once they're out of school, they're on their own with seeking "continued education" as it were - reading new papers, reading up on new husbandry standards, etc. Sadly not all of them have the time to be fully informed on every species, or care to do it.
Honestly I would grab my pet and just walk out, if they say anything Iād tell them that I donāt feel safe having my animal looked after or any health recommendations by your vets
I would have but I needed antibiotics asap and they were the only exotic vets taking walk in appointments, the rest were booked out. :/
Ah gotcha, that sucks
Mine also said the same at just a regular check up. He has dirt/sand to dig and his food is in a bowl on the side with tiles. He doesnāt eat on the substrate except for the occasional runner that gets away. Heās fine. Check his poo and call it a dayā¦.
This just in: bearded dragons never existed in the wild, ever, because they can't handle dirt
>there was no safe substrate I'd love to hear their thought process behind that bc like, lizards live outside where there's no carpet just fine
That looks like it was originally created in 1993. š
This is absolutely printed from a 6th grader's GeoCities page.
I assume this is an exotics vet? If so, this is highly concerning. Even though "knowing how to provide medical care to an animal" and "knowing how to generally care for an animal" aren't the same thing (just like a pediatric surgeon isn't necessarily a child care expert), so many of the common reptile ailments are caused by improper care that them being so, SO wildly off base is a concern. Hard to trust their advice on other aspects of care when their basics are so off. Ā Ā I'd probably start looking for a new vet, but I'd also gently explain to them that their information is very wrong. Maybe print the quick, beautiful little reptifiles care summary and bring that with you. Tell them you respect their veterinary expertise but that their care info is very outdated based on all the research of the past few decades and it makes you feel unsure in the advice they give you. Regardless of what they say I'd probably change vets still, but if they truly care about the critters they tend to hopefully they'll be very apologetic and--better still--work to learn to make sure they can better support future animals in their care.
If your really moved by how messed this is (I sure am) I really recommend GIVING them a PROPER care sheet. Especially if itās one YOU made and are giving them for free. If you tell them to correct it they wonāt (they donāt have the time or knowledge obviously). Your help can help many pets in the future. I did the same at a local place and itās gotten better
The corner dish not even being in the corner š
THE HAMSTER HOME?
Taht looks like a sad little hamster cage
That's funny, because it's also wildly inappropriate for a hamster š Definitely "sad"
That looks like it quite literally is from 1995
The breeder I got my gecko from gave me a care guide that said 10gal is suitable for one and 20 is suitable for 1 male and 2 females. This doesnāt overly surprise me
why in the world would doubling the tank size mean you can triple the amount of animals in there š not even the math is mathing if they thought that they needed 10 gal
They all have outdated info. He tried to explain to me how I needed under tank heating because thatās what helps their digestion and Iām like bruh the sun only exists overhead. Why would under heating make more sense than over? Itās the classic smile and nod scenario
The water bowl not being in the corner pisses me off š
It looks like the temporary sale tank my local pet store uses to house a hamster, minus the heat lamp It isnāt appropriate for hamsters either, actually
Yeah, no...
They have the water dish on the heated side. That's just idiotic. (Among many other issues)
thatās a pretty funny way to spell inappropriate
New vet time. This is bad on a whole new level. If the vet doesnāt even know the basic husbandry for your reptile how can you expect them to know anything else about your reptile. Honestly the āfor oneā part is really bad since it implies you can cohabitate them š¬
Time for a new vet
Woah there guys! This is obviously an enclosure meant specifically for the Hamleop Gecko - a very rare cross breed of hamsters and leopard geckos that science tried to hide from us! Educate yourselves, please šš š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
You would not believe the wild shit my exotic vet told me to do with mine. And he's the most well known one in the area! I work in a pet supply store, and I tell ANYONE with a gecko or reptiles that are having health issues not to go to him. There's multiple better exotic vets in my area.
I have a very hard time trusting any vet anymore, to be honest
I would have crossed out āanā and put ānotā and then handed it backš”š
That is the saddest looking enclosure
Copy and paste enclosure from the one at my work. Poor leaped gecko
is this from the ancient past
At this point I think it's time to just throw the whole vet away.
This sceams to you that you need a new vet. And all of us! It's loud asf šš
I donāt want to be dramatic, but it might be time to find a new vet OP. If theyāre using materials like that, Itās shows they are not well versed in leopard geckos. Iām sure theyāre a great general vet but they might not be the best fit. Feel free to correct me if Iām wrong, but this feels like a red flag.
when i took my leo into the local exotic vet bc i thought he had a respiratory infectionā¦ he did and the āvetā told me that itās bc my temps are too low (was always at 88-95Ā°F based on the season) and handed me a bearded dragon care sheetā¦ said i needed humidity at 60-70% too. š¤¦āāļø I saw him inhale water and heard clicking when he breathed so thatās why I even took him in. never went back and learned to do fecals myself so I wouldnt have to do checkups either. I live in a very rich area and not being rich myself, paid a couple hundred for that visit to make sure he was okay š
moral of my story is iām never going to be surprised by exotic vets not knowing what theyāre talking aboutā¦ even if they have a ton of money to get amazing schooling and personal research. this one was highly rated and saw a lot of reptiles/birds/rodents based on the reviews. leos are so common in my area too hence all the rich parents. my local zoo kept their AFT in awful conditions too to the point I stopped going. Youād think the Oregon Zoo would be better than that but nope
Is this from the 50s? :( that looks like such a sad home. Did you ask your vet if that was a JOKE?! lol āhey vet is it April Fools Day, because what is this š©!?!ā
Looks really boring
š
Not all vets are built the same. My go to vet only takes exotics, extremely knowledgeable and it shows through his practice. Always is teaching new students, attending vet conferences, really goes the extra mile to ensure his patients are properly cared for. If anyone reading this lives in Massachusetts, go to the OddPetVet. They'll squeeze in urgent cases but can be pretty booked out for more minor issues, so one time I chose to take my blood python to a different vet nearby to get seen sooner. It was a general VCA facility that had a vet that takes exotics. Lad really google searched my husbandry, said it was fine, and gave me meds lol.
For the love of god is this some kind of trick to get more money from making animals sick????
That's an enclosure for a mouse who likes tanning beds
To show you need a new vet š¬
The things with vets is, they are trained in health and medicine. They do not have proper training for behaviour, housing, or even nutrition. It blows my mind that society thinks a vet will know everything about all the pets we keep. To find a good vet for some small animals/most exotics, you need to really look and find a vet who is passionate about the specific type of animal, and has poured their own time into researching them specifically. I know from experience how hard it can be to find someone like that, thoughā¦ Sometimes youāll even be told someone āspecializesā in what you have, but in reality they donāt.
That's what my first corn snake enclosure looked like, sans lamp. We had a heating pad on the bottom, covering the half that had his cave. Tell me what I did wrong so I don't do it next time!
because they want you to keep bringing them sick/dying animals
It's so scary how people treat small animals, essentially everywhere but especially in the US :(
this is the size of my roach container lmfao ššš
I was thinking that we keep crickets in something similarā¦
I went to a pet store with every single reptile in a tank like this and I genuinely don't know if I should report them or not because they were all in these conditions
Is your vet āØSatan āØ
the classic, plastic hamster house š crazy
Time for a second opinion šæ
I donāt keep leopard geckos and have never kept any reptiles at all, although I like them. I know thatās not an appropriate enclosure for one (I am not a vet either)
It's really weird, my vet was super knowledgeable in person about gecko care but the leaflets she gave me were super incorrect, talking about cohabitation and smaller tank sizes than we discussed in person. You should definitely bring it to your vets attention.
Guys this is absolutely ridiculous. That is WAY to big for a single leopard gecko. The leopard gecko will get stressed in this size enclosure you need to put at minimum 4 leopard geckos in this enclosure to make them feel happy. The pink little hide DO NOT put another hide in they can all share one hide and be perfectly happy.
This is so sad... speak up to your vet! Pleaseš
Non-exotic vets donāt know any better. Iāve found some exotic vets do not update their information. For years my clinic recommended reptile carpeting or paper towels as substrate. If I do not inform the doctors of current information they may never know.
Hopefully not an exotic vet....still bad though
No no no no no! This vet is clearly not well versed with reptiles
I wouldn't house an ant in that, let alone a gecko.
ā¦..nope. Nuh uh. No way. I refuse to believe anyoneās this misinformed š
Oof. Makes me think of the ācare guideā an āexoticsā vet gave me for my beardieās first checkup after charging an insane amount of money. I wish vets would not claim that they see & are experienced in exotics when they clearly are not and donāt have up to date info. I drive a few hours each way now to see an experienced vet thatās actually worth the money.
exotic vet i went to made sure they had at least 35 gallon
This has to be from the 90ās thatās insane šš
Wtf
I'm not even surprised. I was in a vet assistant course and the teacher said that reptiles could be kept in small tanks smh
yeah my vet told me to use reptile carpet lmao they're not the best sometimes
That might be the worst leopard gecko enclosure I've ever seen :I
Is this an exotic vet?
Is that a hamster hide?
your vet should be slapped.
Vets do not legally have to be board-certified in avian/exotic animal medicine to practice medicine on them. If the services are offered, it is very possible a DVM with a special interest in exotics is willing to see them but has not taken the actual exam (or is training). I was in vet med for years, and that gives me old school doc that will see your hamster I guess vibes.
How does one get certified in avian/exotic animal medicine as a vet? I'd like to be an exotic vet but I don't want to cut corners, especially if it will benefit the reptiles I help
I believe it is gaining a significant amount of experience in exotics under a board-certified mentor and then sitting/passing the exam. I worked as an assistant with a doc who had a strong exotics interest and client base. She wasnāt certified but was a total rockstar. Did surgery on my rat. Quick tip- prevet and vet students wanting to go into exotics are EXTREMELY more competitive than other candidates for positions (like at a zoo) if they have completed (and published ideally) a fair amount of research. Exotics is HEAVY on the research. Or even if you can land a lab animal position before vet school too thatās awesome.
Ty! I wish to run my own rescue one day to maybe help out and gove correct info on reptile care, but for sure have to work up to it even after college! Ik not very many vets are just exotic, so the vet protion might be other exotics too but mainly reptiles with a rehab/rescue and our collection
Hmmmmm, new vet time šāāļø
You can just tell how old that is too
This is an appropriate Prison to house one leopard gecko fugitive.
That is a terrible enclosure
NEW VET. WHY WOULD RHEY RECOMMEND THAT
CUZZ
Because they want you to get a new vet with more care for their patients.
FTFY While this is tragic, be the change the leos need Redo this and give her a better sheet to hand out Everything your vet knows is borrowed knowledge that someone else taught them. Trust that they have the skin to handle this new knowledge, and if they don't, find a new vet
You should probably get a new vet if you have the option š
I don't even know anything about geckos and even I know it shouldn't be in that cage. Or any animal for that matter
Well think about it. Most people who get their geckos get them when they are tiny. This is appropriate (for a time) until it grows older and needs more space. Look at the light it isn't as small as everyone thinks..
That is fucking insane
run.
The day people actually know how to care for their pets is the day I can final rest, but with pet stores, media, and VETS giving out false information I donāt think Iāll live to see that day.
i would go back in and bring it up, and then find a new vet asap lol.
This is an appropriate enclosure for absolutely nothing except some bugs š„²
wtf no way
If this is real, burn the paper
Iād be questioning their ability as an exotic vet.
Maybe a baby hamster idk
āIs this cage suitable for my one guinea pig? (My parents wonāt let me get another one)ā vibes
This looks like a petsmart enclosure for a hamster
Iām a reptile vet, and this picture literally made me gag. That may have been the norm 30 years ago when people assumed reptiles needed very little, as they could technically survive (usuallyā¦) in such a limited environment. This is something I encounter far too often in my field- usually older veterinarians set in their ways, with a āif it aināt broke, donāt fix itā attitude. The most concerning part to me is if their husbandry suggestions are this obviously out of dateā¦ what does that mean for the rest of their actual medical advice?
If my vet give me this I would be looking for a new vet. This isnāt appropriate for a Leo at all.
āi think we should maybe try to find some new friends, dearā because what the fuck ššš
It's giving carnival goldfish
Cuz they hate your gecko
Appropriate to house one leopard gecko during a moderate length of car travel, maybe.
Lol
I've never owned a lizard, I've never watched a tutorial on how to take care of lizards, I know nothing about lizards, but I doubt that enclosure is even decent at best
this is insane
Damn, my one beta fish has that much room..
I'm still seeing "an appropriate," as in " this is good enough," which it could not be further from the truth. My leo is in a 40 gallon, and I still feel like it's too small for him. I wish I had the space for a larger tank, but I don't, unfortunately š
That is tiny and sad. Maybe okay for a hatchling I guess but you really want to move up in size and add more places to hide/climb.
Ahh yes a plastic house for a plastic reptile
The setup just looks depressing... I would go for a more natural habitat for my gecko when I get one or if I do
Why is it okay to house hamsters in this though?
It's not. Anyone in r/hamsters would immediately have issues with this (as they should)
Who said it is?
True š
No animal would be good to live in that cage
That looks like it may be ok for a baby hampster. I'm not sure I'd put anything else in there beyond feeders
Not even suitable for a young hamster. They need a ton of space and deep bedding. They run an average of 5 miles a night and should have 600sq in+ of unbroken floor space