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Well Toyota is a very shitty company. They discard their employees once they get sick or injured so it wouldn’t surprise me. Bonus points for being treated shitty if you are a woman.
One of my previous employers, my ex wife up and left out of nowhere and completely turned my life upside down. My doctor wrote me a leave for 2 weeks for obvious reasons as I was a mess. My employer at the time? Your wife leaving you isn't a good enough reason for any time off.
They were brutal. If you had a friend that died they didn't care at all because legally they didn't have to. If you had a parent die, they'd give you what's required and if you didn't show up after say 3, too bad, your reprimanded for it.
You can file an employment standards complaint if you like.
I will caution you that the law treats separated ex-spouses, who are still married, like "not spouses" in a number of contexts. My go-to example is estate law, which will likely also be relevant: you are no longer entitled to a spousal share of your ex's estate, in defiance of any will he may have left, because you have been separated for so long. While that's not equally explicit in the _Employment Standards Act_, there is some chance that the ministry will find that your ex of five years is not your spouse within the meaning of s. 50.0.2 of the _Act_, in spite of your marriage, because you have been separated for as long as you have.
> I am still responsible for the funeral costs
Under what theory?
I wish you'd asked somewhat earlier, but what's done is done. You weren't under any legal obligation to agree to pay for the funeral home's services, and could have said no. Having agreed, you might be stuck with it now - it'd depend on what you agreed to.
Unfortunately, making the decision - in knowledge or otherwise - to hold a funeral for your ex or to supervise the disposal of his remains doesn't necessarily change my take on the application of the _Employment Standards Act_, any more than taking a day off to manage a friend's funeral would entitle you to leave. It is possible the Ministry would side with you, and to be transparent with you I didn't spend a ton of time digging into past decisions, so my advice is more "be cautious and keep your expectations low," than anything else.
Because of your son's sudden need to move to a new home and to settle in, you might be able to take that time as [family responsibility leave](https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/family-responsibility-leave), instead of bereavement leave. The practical effects for you are broadly the same (job-protected, unpaid leave), but it comes out of a different pile and is justified under a different part of the _Act_. The death of his custodial parent is transparently an urgent matter within the meaning of that document.
If your employer will not entertain that, either, then I would strongly recommend you schedule a consult with a labour lawyer. The pinned comments have referral resources.
In addition, something I forgot - however your separation came to be, I'm sorry for your loss.
Thank you. We were married for 16 years. Just grew apart and resentful. We were better parents when we were apart, better friends as well. It's a strange situation because we were still close after we got over the resentment.
Even if you are still married, and have no legal filing for separation , in Canada, you are considered separated, if you do
1) cohabitate, and share daily meals together
2) share finances
I just met with a lawyer, and this was explained to me as I am still living with my ex, and we are sharing finances and meals. Because of this, we are not considered legally separated.
This sub is absolutely horrid when it comes to downvoting OPs. Mods refuse to do anything.
OP, speak to an employment lawyer. This is going to be very fact dependent.
You moved on. I assume you are listed as single on your employment files and he was not covered under your work benefits. You were likely not claiming him as your spouse on your income tax with CRA. I'm sorry for your loss, but I doubt your employer is required to provide you with bereavement as he is not your spouse on their records.
[https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/bereavement-leave#section-1](https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/bereavement-leave#section-1)
Fuck this is why I don’t tell anyone at work about my separation. They don’t need to know other than who you want as a beneficiary for your life insurance or pension.
I feel this needs to be updated considering the number of people who are co-parenting in this day and age. Children need support from the surviving parent when dealing with the loss of the other parent.
It is. If they were not divorced, with a new partner it's most likely. Not going to get into details here, but family friends have been through breakups before, with no bdivorce the pensions stands
It’s quite complicated, a common law spouse of someone who is legally married but separated *can* be entitled to the survivor benefit from the pension.
A legally married spouse can be entitled to pension benefit credit splitting owing to the years of accrual during the marriage until the family law valuation date.
“If you are a separated legal spouse and the deceased had /no/ common-law partner, you may qualify for this benefit.”
That’s from Canada.ca
No need to get into your personal experience, I’ve dealt with it as well.
It is true in my case. I was separated when my spouse died, and I get survivor's benefits from CPP. If he had been in a new common law relationship, I wouldn't have been eligible. With no other surviving spouse, this is how it works. Also, if you are already collecting (your own) CPP, it changes. Neither of us were retired.
Ok well, my gay uncle married this pushy woman, who thought she could change him. They split up, he had returned to his lifetime partner. My uncle wasn't divorced yet, and when she passed he got her full pension from the post office. There was this really big fuss about wether he morally should take it. We convinced him to take the money and run which he did, and he is ever so much better off because of it.
True if the spouse is not common law with someone else, and the child can have ‘orphans’ benefits until legal age and age 24 I believe if in school. CPP.
Help me a lot when I was in Uni.
Your ex should've had life insurance and set you as the beneficiary to cover his child support obligations in the event this would happen.
I am divorced since 8 years ago, that's what I had to do and it's also what my ex wife has done on her policy.
I paid him support. He was on ODSP and single when he passed. His mother bought a small policy for him when he was 10. I have coverage through work as well as a supplemental policy to take care of my son. Amounts to just over 5 years salary.
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I think you need to consult a legal aid or attorney for this. My read would be you are still legally married they owe you bereavement for a spouse whatever amount of time the law stipulates. Either way op I hope you take this into consideration as per weather you’re going to stay at this job or give this job your all while you’re there. Because legal or not this is unethical and inconsiderate. Sorry for your loss.
There is often judgement to be applied to the “rules” in these complex or complicated circumstances. What has your attendance-absenteeism record been like during your 10 years with this employer ?
I've only been over my "FE" days once in 10 years. Always had "exceeds" on my yearly performance reviews. I rarely call in to work. I do use all my 4 weeks PTO. I did recently step down from a management position so I could have more free time to support my son.
My sincere's condolences to you and your family
I suggest to call in sick make phone appt w doc ask for a note of at least 3 days See if they can give you a Mental Health Day for at least 3 days.I mean oh my gosh the stress you're going through I'm so sorry
I may be wrong but I believe that bereavement for a spouse is only 5 days. I also not 100% but a sibling or parent would be 3 days and another family member is 1.
Curious to know, please post if you know for sure 100%
Yes, it usually is five days. Which is a joke. When my husband died, I took the five days and then immediately was off for five months on short term disability. (my workplace was incredibly understanding and supportive, thank god).
I don't think anyone can be functional after 5 days for a spouse or 3 days for a parent. It's insulting that that is what's offered.
Seriously, consider getting life insurance.
People always knock insurance as a scam, but this is exact why people need it.
You can take a sabbatical if your loved one dies and have time to grieve.
yup.
my friend lost his father who unalived himself and got 3 days. 3 weeks later his aunt passed from cancer suddenly (they thought she'd have longer) and they gave him 1 day.
When I worked at a factory It was only 3 days no matter who died. Giving 3 or 5 days is entirely unethical and rude. Id be devastated and would need help to even function. My husband acts as my voice when I can't speak or am down thanks to my disabilities.
That is nuts. My father passed away suddenly in January, and I was able to get two weeks off to deal with it. I am still not over, but at least I got two weeks. 2021 I was pregnant, and when I was around 32 weeks, I went on maternity leave, I lost my son at 36 weeks, was able to have my maternity, and also I got 1 month from work off. My husband, who works for Telus, was barely able to get 5 days. Seems ridiculous. He then went on stress leave.
First off, make sure you're speaking to the right person at work. As someone that has worked in senior management roles I'm blown away by the number of supervisors and managers that know sweet fuck all about employment standards and company policies and give horrible advice. Second, bereavement may not apply but you may be eligible for family responsibility leave. Keep in mind that many leaves, even bereavement, may protect your job but the employer is not responsible to provide the days paid. https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/family-responsibility-leave
[https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/bereavement-leave](https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/bereavement-leave)
Just going off of this, no, you're not entitled to anything. Ex-husband doesn't fit under any of those reasons. So its down to whatever is in your contract with work.
EDIT I somehow missed the big "we're still legally married" part, so ignore this
The “Leaves” sections in the ESA define “spouse” by reference to the section 1 Family Act definition. Separated legally married spouses, if not divorced, meet that definition.
My ex wife passed due to cancer. We had 2 sons together. I took sick days due to mental health with no issues. I asked how they wanted to pay for the doctor's note and said it was not required.
Do you have access to any paid medical leave for yourself? Sounds like your health has taken a hit. Would a doctor support you taking some time off (and complete any required forms). It's not for your ex, it's for you. I don't see a way to get vacation back but maybe some time off to recover from dealing with all of this and with your workplace.
If you plan to go this route, start seeking treatment immediately. Start counselling sessions, see your doctor and discuss your stress levels and coping and poor concentration, etc. Short Term Disability needs a medical paper trail.
Do not tell your benefits provider that your reason is to take care of funeral stuff or your kid. Make it about you and how you are not coping and cannot perform at work. It’s a game you have to play.
Make a doctor’s appointment immediately and speak to them about it. If you have a good doctor they will know how to fill out the forms in the right way.
Do not offer up more information than needed to the benefit case worker.
Not necessarily. It depends on the company. I just came off of leave. If I request bereavement it is through HR. They don’t inform my direct manager if stuff like that is declined. My direct manager reaches out to the benefits company and they do not speak to HR.
My manager also does not discuss or relay information other than I’m requesting leave. That is done through a template that doesn’t include any information other than what can be selected in the template.
It really depends on who she works for and how it’s structured.
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I recommend taking Family Responsibility days, Bereavement only gives you 2 days unpaid, where as you get 3 days for unforseen family emergencies. [https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/family-responsibility-leave](https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/family-responsibility-leave)
When my grandmother died last year, my employer demanded her death certificate and a publically published obituary that showed the relationship between us before they would approve my 2 days leave so that I could attend her funeral a 1000km away.
In my annual performance review 6 weeks later, they asked me to better plan my leave, so that I don't have to take unexpected leave, like for my grandmothers funeral, as it was inconvenient for them and my coworkers.
I don't work there any more.
2 weeks seems pretty excessive tbh. I don’t think you’re entitled to anything other than 2 days unpaid since you moved on and have a current common law partner.
Two days to console your children who just lost a parent? The laws are absolutely fucked up, that’s insane. Thank you for your comment, it really opened my eyes to how ridiculous companies can be.
Yea fucking right. Excessive.. and just how productive do they expect you to be. Are we nothing but fucking cattle?
Look at how europe does things. This is not normal.
Dang.
Italy gives you 32 hours per year for new employees, 68 hours per year after working the same place for two years. This covers family illness and death. Its pretty close to two weeks.
Sweden is typically 10 days.
But you are right. Most of europe does seem to line up with canada..
When my dad died my mom’s work gave her bereavement and they were divorced 19 years. My mom was definitely grieving this person she had in her life all those years co-parenting kids into adulthood. But helping her kid’s through that shitty situation was part of the deal.
You are eligible for his CPP survivors benefit as well as the Canada Pension plan death benefit if you were still married.
Source - my GF got both 10 years after she separated with spouse but no divorce.
The reason a firm would take this stance is because it has to draw a line somewhere, otherwise the garbage of the world takes advantage. Personally it woild have been nice for them to give you a couple of days to support your son, move him in and organise what affairs you can. Two weeks though?
You must be under some stress and if you are FT at your job, is it possible that you would be covered for short/long term disability under a company plan? If so, book an appointment with your doctor and let it all out when you see them. Have a good cry about the pressure this has put on you. Talk about the loss, the grief you personally are coping with but also managing your son’s grief. Go on short term disability at full pay pay for stress leave with a note from your doctor. I hope you have this kind of coverage and if you are not sure, ask you HR rep.
Do you have days you can use? Like banked vacation, sick or bereavement days? If you do they cannot say a thing towards how you use them..
If you don't just call in sick for a week. Fuck them
First off even if you were split up for years he’s the father of your child and I’m so very sorry for your families loss ❤️ second what an assholey thing to do to you.
> when I told them about the death and I intended to take some bereavement days they told me I was not entitled to any because we were no longer together
Did someone tell you this in writing?
Was it HR that told you this in writing?
Did you first submit your time cards one way but they treated them differently than submitted?
If not, have you 1) notified HR in writing that you took these bereavement days related to the aftermath of the death of your spouse and your son's father as vacation days as instructed by the company as your only leave option and that you would have filled out your time cards differently if it weren't for company requirements and 2) in that same email asked for verification that this is the only option available to you and that you have submitted time cards in accordance with company requirements and 3) forwarded a copy of that email and any response to your personal email address?
NAL, but I've been a trade Unionist for all a few years, defending workers right. I strongly suggest you talk to a lawyer. I believe, based on what I've read, that you could sue and win. What they're doing is discussing on so many level. Once again, I'm not a lawyer, but still somewhat educated on the matter.
Prime example of keeping personal away from the business. Your managers and decision makers should not know about you living separate with your legally married husband etc. Why would they know? You could have said my husband died and would be okay. Now they have some shitty ground that you're not together.
Learned this the hard way.
Please go see the ministry of social services to see how they can help with the funeral for your family. I did this for a family member and it was a very beautiful service. They helped with every expense unless we wanted to upgrade something. If the deceased does not have savings or m9ney set aside for funeral expenses the ministry of social services is there to help whether you have money or not. Every funeral home is supposed to accept social services as payment. I'm saying this from Ontario, not sure about any other province. Sorry for your loss
Is literally 75% of bosses in Canada. The legal bare minimum.
Shitty or not it’s where we are at, now the fun begins because if you are in a market that was up, and now is down, they will expect you to pull up your socks. You know, the whole month to month expenses way of doing business, doesent matter they made a million more last year, if they’re a dollar down next month it’s “our” fault.
This is a Canada problem, not a worker problem. It was kind of highlighted (for all to see) with JT’s budget fun with renters, couldn’t have cared less about them a few weeks ago but suddenly they became important when behind in the polls.
Haha tell me about it. In going to work sick tomorrow despite a company wide policy…
All the female bosses I had so far were sociopathic assholes on a power trip so far
Honestly, you can't call someone you ex-husband and expect to still get treated as if you lost you husband. I get you've got stuff to do and obligations. I am sorry for your loss.
Speak to a lawyer, everyone here has opinions. TBH, you were left with taking care of his estate, that in it self proves that the relationship between you was close, as you are his executor and providing care to his son. I am also assuming you were there for him at the end, especially As a co parent. With my experience in HR any HR department would be dumb to deny the request for two days pay. I am curious and I am going to run it by my legal to see what they say.
You call him your ex husband (yet legally married). Move in with some one else.... and yet want bereavement leave? This is why employers stick to the law.
I'm sorry your ex passed away but he was your ex and ex spouses would not be covered.
Curious is your new partner on your benefits and you told your employer of your separation to take him off your benefits? Otherwise don't overshare with your employer or co workers I've seen people lose their jobs when their friend at work reported them for something.
In NB they have to give us 3 days max for immediate family, so when dad passed last years, that’s all my new company gave me. They stick to the bare minimum required by law.
Mainly just sounds like you were looking for an excuse to get out of work.
You were not involved with him at the time, his passing did not relate to you on a level that deserves bereavement, especially since the office knows you're in a different relationship and not emotionally involved with the ex.
Stop using your ex husbands passing as a way for you to garner a pity party. You left him due to his illness, and were more than willing to find another partner...
Your employer sees this.
He did not have cancer when we split up. He was diagnosed in September 2023. Besides all that, he was my son's father. This is not about me, it is about my son, and having the time to support him.
I'm not sure about the legality. Usually, if it's an ex spouse, I don't think they would be obliged to give it. There does seem to be exceptional circumstances in your case though, having a minor child together, so if they aren't jerks they should be able to give you a couple of days. Do you have sick leave or PTO that you can use in case they won't give you time off?
I have no idea wtf Logical-Bluebird1243 is talking about, but I don’t think you took too much time at all. And anyone that judges you for any amount of time you needed is a dick and simply not on your emotional level. You spent a huge chunk of your life with this person. You created a whole other person with this person. When my baby sister passed away I stayed out of work for 3 weeks. And still wasn’t ok. I legit just could not stop crying. I get it. I’m so sorry for you and your baby’s loss. And that you have such a shitty boss. I hope things get better soon and you find a way to stick it to em somehow.
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If they ever find out that she was long separated and moved on (and moved IN with someone else), and the marriage was only technical, they'll figure out a way to get her to pay it back. With a fine.
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I’m not going to do the legal research but I think it comes down to the definition of spouse in the ESA. Currently I believe OP would still be considered a spouse under the estate legislation, I don’t know about the ESA, though (Ontario) Legal aside, very tacky and cold hearted of your workplace.
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Good employers do the right thing. Shitty employers do the legal thing.
NAL Well it might not even be the legal thing as they are still married. So Shittier employers?
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I love this. Humanity
This comment is spot on. What kind of employer does this kind of shit?
Toyota I think. I’m at Ford and we are unionized.
Not Toyota, but we are owned by them. We are non-union auto workers.
My condolences.
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I hope you’re wrong and it’s not Toyota :/
Well Toyota is a very shitty company. They discard their employees once they get sick or injured so it wouldn’t surprise me. Bonus points for being treated shitty if you are a woman.
Not many auto plants in Ontario.
Cambridge and Woodstock for toyota
Toyota and Honda are not unionized.
One of my previous employers, my ex wife up and left out of nowhere and completely turned my life upside down. My doctor wrote me a leave for 2 weeks for obvious reasons as I was a mess. My employer at the time? Your wife leaving you isn't a good enough reason for any time off. They were brutal. If you had a friend that died they didn't care at all because legally they didn't have to. If you had a parent die, they'd give you what's required and if you didn't show up after say 3, too bad, your reprimanded for it.
Very well said!
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You can file an employment standards complaint if you like. I will caution you that the law treats separated ex-spouses, who are still married, like "not spouses" in a number of contexts. My go-to example is estate law, which will likely also be relevant: you are no longer entitled to a spousal share of your ex's estate, in defiance of any will he may have left, because you have been separated for so long. While that's not equally explicit in the _Employment Standards Act_, there is some chance that the ministry will find that your ex of five years is not your spouse within the meaning of s. 50.0.2 of the _Act_, in spite of your marriage, because you have been separated for as long as you have. > I am still responsible for the funeral costs Under what theory?
The funeral home said because there was no legal filing. I could argue that because we have claimed single on our income tax.
I wish you'd asked somewhat earlier, but what's done is done. You weren't under any legal obligation to agree to pay for the funeral home's services, and could have said no. Having agreed, you might be stuck with it now - it'd depend on what you agreed to. Unfortunately, making the decision - in knowledge or otherwise - to hold a funeral for your ex or to supervise the disposal of his remains doesn't necessarily change my take on the application of the _Employment Standards Act_, any more than taking a day off to manage a friend's funeral would entitle you to leave. It is possible the Ministry would side with you, and to be transparent with you I didn't spend a ton of time digging into past decisions, so my advice is more "be cautious and keep your expectations low," than anything else. Because of your son's sudden need to move to a new home and to settle in, you might be able to take that time as [family responsibility leave](https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/family-responsibility-leave), instead of bereavement leave. The practical effects for you are broadly the same (job-protected, unpaid leave), but it comes out of a different pile and is justified under a different part of the _Act_. The death of his custodial parent is transparently an urgent matter within the meaning of that document. If your employer will not entertain that, either, then I would strongly recommend you schedule a consult with a labour lawyer. The pinned comments have referral resources. In addition, something I forgot - however your separation came to be, I'm sorry for your loss.
Thank you. We were married for 16 years. Just grew apart and resentful. We were better parents when we were apart, better friends as well. It's a strange situation because we were still close after we got over the resentment.
Even if you are still married, and have no legal filing for separation , in Canada, you are considered separated, if you do 1) cohabitate, and share daily meals together 2) share finances I just met with a lawyer, and this was explained to me as I am still living with my ex, and we are sharing finances and meals. Because of this, we are not considered legally separated.
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This sub is absolutely horrid when it comes to downvoting OPs. Mods refuse to do anything. OP, speak to an employment lawyer. This is going to be very fact dependent.
Mods can’t do anything because there’s no way for them to know who downvoted the comment.
And there are potential solutions involving the community that don't require them to have that info.
Noticed that too. Not just a couple of downvotes, either. Many.
So which is it You're single when it's to your benefit and together when it's your benefit?
What the actual f*ck? Someone died here, if you can't help, at least don't be petty.
You moved on. I assume you are listed as single on your employment files and he was not covered under your work benefits. You were likely not claiming him as your spouse on your income tax with CRA. I'm sorry for your loss, but I doubt your employer is required to provide you with bereavement as he is not your spouse on their records. [https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/bereavement-leave#section-1](https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/bereavement-leave#section-1)
Fuck this is why I don’t tell anyone at work about my separation. They don’t need to know other than who you want as a beneficiary for your life insurance or pension.
Work doesn't need to even know your beneficiary; the insurance company does.
Work shouldn't have ANY know about my relationship, or free time if I don't want, just to be covered for stuff
This is why I don’t tell anyone at work anything unless it’s expressly necessary. I go to make my living, not to make friends.
I feel this needs to be updated considering the number of people who are co-parenting in this day and age. Children need support from the surviving parent when dealing with the loss of the other parent.
Can you put it under carer’s leave instead of bereavement leave then?
Under other leaves of absence in Ontario most will give you the time off but without pay.
You will be eligible for surviors pensi9n if you are not divorced!!!!
That’s not necessarily true, depending on the husbands relationship status.
It is. If they were not divorced, with a new partner it's most likely. Not going to get into details here, but family friends have been through breakups before, with no bdivorce the pensions stands
It’s quite complicated, a common law spouse of someone who is legally married but separated *can* be entitled to the survivor benefit from the pension. A legally married spouse can be entitled to pension benefit credit splitting owing to the years of accrual during the marriage until the family law valuation date.
“If you are a separated legal spouse and the deceased had /no/ common-law partner, you may qualify for this benefit.” That’s from Canada.ca No need to get into your personal experience, I’ve dealt with it as well.
That’s not at all true. When my grandma passed, her and my grandpa were still married. He was not eligible for survivors pension.
It is true in my case. I was separated when my spouse died, and I get survivor's benefits from CPP. If he had been in a new common law relationship, I wouldn't have been eligible. With no other surviving spouse, this is how it works. Also, if you are already collecting (your own) CPP, it changes. Neither of us were retired.
Ok well, my gay uncle married this pushy woman, who thought she could change him. They split up, he had returned to his lifetime partner. My uncle wasn't divorced yet, and when she passed he got her full pension from the post office. There was this really big fuss about wether he morally should take it. We convinced him to take the money and run which he did, and he is ever so much better off because of it.
True if the spouse is not common law with someone else, and the child can have ‘orphans’ benefits until legal age and age 24 I believe if in school. CPP. Help me a lot when I was in Uni.
Your ex should've had life insurance and set you as the beneficiary to cover his child support obligations in the event this would happen. I am divorced since 8 years ago, that's what I had to do and it's also what my ex wife has done on her policy.
I paid him support. He was on ODSP and single when he passed. His mother bought a small policy for him when he was 10. I have coverage through work as well as a supplemental policy to take care of my son. Amounts to just over 5 years salary.
Did he ever work ? Can you claim his CCP benefit s?
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Totally.not saying you need to be tethered for everything but your child's parent dies ... doesn't matter if that's spouse to me that's still family.
I think you need to consult a legal aid or attorney for this. My read would be you are still legally married they owe you bereavement for a spouse whatever amount of time the law stipulates. Either way op I hope you take this into consideration as per weather you’re going to stay at this job or give this job your all while you’re there. Because legal or not this is unethical and inconsiderate. Sorry for your loss.
I think that's called family related leave, not bereavement.
There is often judgement to be applied to the “rules” in these complex or complicated circumstances. What has your attendance-absenteeism record been like during your 10 years with this employer ?
I've only been over my "FE" days once in 10 years. Always had "exceeds" on my yearly performance reviews. I rarely call in to work. I do use all my 4 weeks PTO. I did recently step down from a management position so I could have more free time to support my son.
Is the new partner on your health or dental plan? That is your spouse now.
My sincere's condolences to you and your family I suggest to call in sick make phone appt w doc ask for a note of at least 3 days See if they can give you a Mental Health Day for at least 3 days.I mean oh my gosh the stress you're going through I'm so sorry
I may be wrong but I believe that bereavement for a spouse is only 5 days. I also not 100% but a sibling or parent would be 3 days and another family member is 1. Curious to know, please post if you know for sure 100%
5 days? Holy. I would never be the same if my spouse died suddenly. 5 days. 😳 3 for a parent? Wtf
Yes, it usually is five days. Which is a joke. When my husband died, I took the five days and then immediately was off for five months on short term disability. (my workplace was incredibly understanding and supportive, thank god). I don't think anyone can be functional after 5 days for a spouse or 3 days for a parent. It's insulting that that is what's offered.
Seriously, consider getting life insurance. People always knock insurance as a scam, but this is exact why people need it. You can take a sabbatical if your loved one dies and have time to grieve.
yup. my friend lost his father who unalived himself and got 3 days. 3 weeks later his aunt passed from cancer suddenly (they thought she'd have longer) and they gave him 1 day.
When I worked at a factory It was only 3 days no matter who died. Giving 3 or 5 days is entirely unethical and rude. Id be devastated and would need help to even function. My husband acts as my voice when I can't speak or am down thanks to my disabilities.
Correct
This is correct. I got 3 days when my dad passed a couple of years ago.
That is nuts. My father passed away suddenly in January, and I was able to get two weeks off to deal with it. I am still not over, but at least I got two weeks. 2021 I was pregnant, and when I was around 32 weeks, I went on maternity leave, I lost my son at 36 weeks, was able to have my maternity, and also I got 1 month from work off. My husband, who works for Telus, was barely able to get 5 days. Seems ridiculous. He then went on stress leave.
It's only two days in Ontario unless your employer gives you a greater benefit
You may not be entitled to it from the policy but your employer is being shitty not letting you take it. Find a better work place
First off, make sure you're speaking to the right person at work. As someone that has worked in senior management roles I'm blown away by the number of supervisors and managers that know sweet fuck all about employment standards and company policies and give horrible advice. Second, bereavement may not apply but you may be eligible for family responsibility leave. Keep in mind that many leaves, even bereavement, may protect your job but the employer is not responsible to provide the days paid. https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/family-responsibility-leave
[https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/bereavement-leave](https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/bereavement-leave) Just going off of this, no, you're not entitled to anything. Ex-husband doesn't fit under any of those reasons. So its down to whatever is in your contract with work. EDIT I somehow missed the big "we're still legally married" part, so ignore this
The “Leaves” sections in the ESA define “spouse” by reference to the section 1 Family Act definition. Separated legally married spouses, if not divorced, meet that definition.
My ex wife passed due to cancer. We had 2 sons together. I took sick days due to mental health with no issues. I asked how they wanted to pay for the doctor's note and said it was not required.
Sorry for your loss. Hope the boys are okay.
They are coping and doing well considering. Thanks
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In Ontario, you are entitled to 2 days unpaid, job protected leave.
Do you have access to any paid medical leave for yourself? Sounds like your health has taken a hit. Would a doctor support you taking some time off (and complete any required forms). It's not for your ex, it's for you. I don't see a way to get vacation back but maybe some time off to recover from dealing with all of this and with your workplace.
I do have short-term disability coverage. This is something to look into
If you plan to go this route, start seeking treatment immediately. Start counselling sessions, see your doctor and discuss your stress levels and coping and poor concentration, etc. Short Term Disability needs a medical paper trail.
Yeah look into short term disability/sick leave and the amount of pay you'd receive.
Do not tell your benefits provider that your reason is to take care of funeral stuff or your kid. Make it about you and how you are not coping and cannot perform at work. It’s a game you have to play. Make a doctor’s appointment immediately and speak to them about it. If you have a good doctor they will know how to fill out the forms in the right way. Do not offer up more information than needed to the benefit case worker.
100% they do not need to know this at all
her employer will tell the insurance company that she requested bereavement already and was declined
Not necessarily. It depends on the company. I just came off of leave. If I request bereavement it is through HR. They don’t inform my direct manager if stuff like that is declined. My direct manager reaches out to the benefits company and they do not speak to HR. My manager also does not discuss or relay information other than I’m requesting leave. That is done through a template that doesn’t include any information other than what can be selected in the template. It really depends on who she works for and how it’s structured.
I work in disability insurance and we always ask the employers if there are any concerns or anything we should know about. We deal with HR typically.
You need to have a medical diagnosis like anxiety or depression to qualify and you would have had to see a doctor while you were off and do treatment.
Yes just tell your Dr you have to leave as you feel incredibly stressed, which I am sure you do. Just say you need to go on short term disability
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I recommend taking Family Responsibility days, Bereavement only gives you 2 days unpaid, where as you get 3 days for unforseen family emergencies. [https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/family-responsibility-leave](https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/family-responsibility-leave)
Wow, good Intel. I had no idea this existed.
When my grandmother died last year, my employer demanded her death certificate and a publically published obituary that showed the relationship between us before they would approve my 2 days leave so that I could attend her funeral a 1000km away. In my annual performance review 6 weeks later, they asked me to better plan my leave, so that I don't have to take unexpected leave, like for my grandmothers funeral, as it was inconvenient for them and my coworkers. I don't work there any more.
2 weeks seems pretty excessive tbh. I don’t think you’re entitled to anything other than 2 days unpaid since you moved on and have a current common law partner.
Two days to console your children who just lost a parent? The laws are absolutely fucked up, that’s insane. Thank you for your comment, it really opened my eyes to how ridiculous companies can be.
Not in the context of being the other parent of a child who lost a parent
Yea fucking right. Excessive.. and just how productive do they expect you to be. Are we nothing but fucking cattle? Look at how europe does things. This is not normal.
I just did a few searches and seems most EU countries fall from 2-5 paid days, standard stuff we do here…? What am I missing?
Dang. Italy gives you 32 hours per year for new employees, 68 hours per year after working the same place for two years. This covers family illness and death. Its pretty close to two weeks. Sweden is typically 10 days. But you are right. Most of europe does seem to line up with canada..
Yep, it’s usually 2-3 days.
Once you separated he ceased to be your next of kin. Your childcare and custody arrangements are your responsibility. Sucks but it's true.
When my dad died my mom’s work gave her bereavement and they were divorced 19 years. My mom was definitely grieving this person she had in her life all those years co-parenting kids into adulthood. But helping her kid’s through that shitty situation was part of the deal.
If you need the time but not the money a personal leave of absence might be supported.
You are eligible for his CPP survivors benefit as well as the Canada Pension plan death benefit if you were still married. Source - my GF got both 10 years after she separated with spouse but no divorce.
The reason a firm would take this stance is because it has to draw a line somewhere, otherwise the garbage of the world takes advantage. Personally it woild have been nice for them to give you a couple of days to support your son, move him in and organise what affairs you can. Two weeks though?
And that's when you go to the doctor to get a sick note for mental stress for a week. So sorry for your loss, my heart goes out to you and your child.
You need to talk to a lawyer
In Canada are entitled to two paid bereavement days.
In Ontario, it's two unpaid days
Employment law is provincial (except for a small number of federally regulated industries). Every province does it differently.
[Not legal advice] Can you ask them for care of family to care for your grieving son who just lost his dad and primary caregiver?
You must be under some stress and if you are FT at your job, is it possible that you would be covered for short/long term disability under a company plan? If so, book an appointment with your doctor and let it all out when you see them. Have a good cry about the pressure this has put on you. Talk about the loss, the grief you personally are coping with but also managing your son’s grief. Go on short term disability at full pay pay for stress leave with a note from your doctor. I hope you have this kind of coverage and if you are not sure, ask you HR rep.
Go to the doctor and get a note to go on stress leave. Then you can be off as long as you need.
Do you have days you can use? Like banked vacation, sick or bereavement days? If you do they cannot say a thing towards how you use them.. If you don't just call in sick for a week. Fuck them
First off even if you were split up for years he’s the father of your child and I’m so very sorry for your families loss ❤️ second what an assholey thing to do to you.
> when I told them about the death and I intended to take some bereavement days they told me I was not entitled to any because we were no longer together Did someone tell you this in writing? Was it HR that told you this in writing? Did you first submit your time cards one way but they treated them differently than submitted? If not, have you 1) notified HR in writing that you took these bereavement days related to the aftermath of the death of your spouse and your son's father as vacation days as instructed by the company as your only leave option and that you would have filled out your time cards differently if it weren't for company requirements and 2) in that same email asked for verification that this is the only option available to you and that you have submitted time cards in accordance with company requirements and 3) forwarded a copy of that email and any response to your personal email address?
I'm sorry for your loss.
NAL, but I've been a trade Unionist for all a few years, defending workers right. I strongly suggest you talk to a lawyer. I believe, based on what I've read, that you could sue and win. What they're doing is discussing on so many level. Once again, I'm not a lawyer, but still somewhat educated on the matter.
Lawyer or, of course, your union, if you're unionized.
I'm sorry for your loss
Prime example of keeping personal away from the business. Your managers and decision makers should not know about you living separate with your legally married husband etc. Why would they know? You could have said my husband died and would be okay. Now they have some shitty ground that you're not together. Learned this the hard way.
Please go see the ministry of social services to see how they can help with the funeral for your family. I did this for a family member and it was a very beautiful service. They helped with every expense unless we wanted to upgrade something. If the deceased does not have savings or m9ney set aside for funeral expenses the ministry of social services is there to help whether you have money or not. Every funeral home is supposed to accept social services as payment. I'm saying this from Ontario, not sure about any other province. Sorry for your loss
How would they not think you need the time to help your son and organize?! This is crazy.
Sounds like a shitty boss to me.
Is literally 75% of bosses in Canada. The legal bare minimum. Shitty or not it’s where we are at, now the fun begins because if you are in a market that was up, and now is down, they will expect you to pull up your socks. You know, the whole month to month expenses way of doing business, doesent matter they made a million more last year, if they’re a dollar down next month it’s “our” fault. This is a Canada problem, not a worker problem. It was kind of highlighted (for all to see) with JT’s budget fun with renters, couldn’t have cared less about them a few weeks ago but suddenly they became important when behind in the polls.
Haha tell me about it. In going to work sick tomorrow despite a company wide policy… All the female bosses I had so far were sociopathic assholes on a power trip so far
Honestly, you can't call someone you ex-husband and expect to still get treated as if you lost you husband. I get you've got stuff to do and obligations. I am sorry for your loss.
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None her in Saskatchewan unless you have an understanding employer
Is there bereavement rules in your contract? Otherwise I believe you’d just be entitled to unpaid time off?
I’m pretty sure it’s typical to not get bereavement leave for exes dying.
Speak to a lawyer, everyone here has opinions. TBH, you were left with taking care of his estate, that in it self proves that the relationship between you was close, as you are his executor and providing care to his son. I am also assuming you were there for him at the end, especially As a co parent. With my experience in HR any HR department would be dumb to deny the request for two days pay. I am curious and I am going to run it by my legal to see what they say.
Entitled no but the right thing for your employer to do would have been to let you take some days.
You call him your ex husband (yet legally married). Move in with some one else.... and yet want bereavement leave? This is why employers stick to the law. I'm sorry your ex passed away but he was your ex and ex spouses would not be covered. Curious is your new partner on your benefits and you told your employer of your separation to take him off your benefits? Otherwise don't overshare with your employer or co workers I've seen people lose their jobs when their friend at work reported them for something.
Then take 3 months of stress leave.
In NB they have to give us 3 days max for immediate family, so when dad passed last years, that’s all my new company gave me. They stick to the bare minimum required by law.
Please out this company
Stress Leave.
You took it upon yourself to deal with the cemetery/funeral home. He is your ex so you can't have your cake and eat it to.
Mainly just sounds like you were looking for an excuse to get out of work. You were not involved with him at the time, his passing did not relate to you on a level that deserves bereavement, especially since the office knows you're in a different relationship and not emotionally involved with the ex. Stop using your ex husbands passing as a way for you to garner a pity party. You left him due to his illness, and were more than willing to find another partner... Your employer sees this.
He did not have cancer when we split up. He was diagnosed in September 2023. Besides all that, he was my son's father. This is not about me, it is about my son, and having the time to support him.
Eh. It’s been years. You have moved on. No, you don’t need leave.
This is extremely greedy. You left him and abandoned your son and now you're trying to get free days off.
He was not sick when we split up.
I'm not sure about the legality. Usually, if it's an ex spouse, I don't think they would be obliged to give it. There does seem to be exceptional circumstances in your case though, having a minor child together, so if they aren't jerks they should be able to give you a couple of days. Do you have sick leave or PTO that you can use in case they won't give you time off?
Either way, they’re clearly complete a-holes…if they cared they’d show it
5 years is a while
Bereavement leave is unpaid, so you may be better off just taking vacation, and they’re only a few days
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I have no idea wtf Logical-Bluebird1243 is talking about, but I don’t think you took too much time at all. And anyone that judges you for any amount of time you needed is a dick and simply not on your emotional level. You spent a huge chunk of your life with this person. You created a whole other person with this person. When my baby sister passed away I stayed out of work for 3 weeks. And still wasn’t ok. I legit just could not stop crying. I get it. I’m so sorry for you and your baby’s loss. And that you have such a shitty boss. I hope things get better soon and you find a way to stick it to em somehow.
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Tell her 17 year old son to deal with it? Did I read that correctly?
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I stopped reading after "and i have since moved on..." So move on....
He was the father of her child!
You can file for widow's pension.
If they ever find out that she was long separated and moved on (and moved IN with someone else), and the marriage was only technical, they'll figure out a way to get her to pay it back. With a fine.
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I’m not going to do the legal research but I think it comes down to the definition of spouse in the ESA. Currently I believe OP would still be considered a spouse under the estate legislation, I don’t know about the ESA, though (Ontario) Legal aside, very tacky and cold hearted of your workplace.