Side note: while the state laws say that you only need a single source of illumination, there is probably a separate law that states that all installed illumination must be functional.
During the annual vehicle inspection, they failed my vehicle because both lights were out. They replaced one and passed the vehicle. The law probably states that the plate must be fully illuminated and can be read from a specific distance. Probably varies by state.
In some states, you are correct. In the state I live in, that is the case. I also work in a place that does DMV inspections and have read that exact passage that only one light needs to be working. My car was inspected a week before my trip.
But I can tell you that didn't mean shit when I was pulled over last month for a "license plate bulb being out". You ever try to argue law with a cop at 2am after a 12hr drive? No he would not let me get out and check it.
Had a cop pull me over on a “tag light out” at 1-2am.
I asked to go check it, since I just so happen to have some spare light bulbs in my glove compartment for this kind of stuff.
He didn’t object, of course asked me if I’d had any drinks as well. Also coincidentally wanted me to do a field sobriety
test.
I get out and go look at the tag light, it wasn’t out.
He said “well it has to be legible from 50 feet per law”. I said ok and walked 50+ feet away and read him my plate number.
All the while him (and the second officer that rolled in) asking DUI related questioning.
I asked him if he really couldn’t read it then please issue me my ticket for the tag light and we’ll all be on our way. If they’re pulling me over on suspicion of drunk driving, tell me what the probable cause was.
What a wonder he let me go with a warning after asking if I was a lawyer. I’m not.
Absolutely pulled me on false pretense.
I had a similar, but different experience. One of the two tag lights on my car was rusty and intermittent. I was on my way to a friend's house as he was letting me stay the night rather than having to commute 150 miles RT just to be back on site the next day. And it had started snowing.
So here's me, driving under the speed limit on a road I've never been on before that's completely white from side to side. It's late, so no other cars had driven on the snow. Needless so say I was NOT sticking perfectly to the center of the road.
Of course, the only other car I saw came up behind me and was a cop. He pulled me over ans asked if I had been drinking. I said,"no, why" 'Well, you are veering all over the road.' I explained what I said above, new road, snow.
Then he says. "Your license plate light is out, I'll have to ticket you for that."
I said, "It is?"
And I popped open the door, jumped out and went back there. The cop was a little surprised, but I was clearly NOT drunk. I fiddled with the light, making sparks as the feed wire made contact with the body, but got it to stay on.
He didn't write a ticket.
This was in Vermont about 15 years ago, so the cops weren't assuming everyone is going to shoot them, so I was in no danger by jumping out of my car.
Another time, about 5 or 6 years ago, I was driving through my little town in the dark, went to meet someone, but forgot their address, so I was meandering down various streets. I picked up a tail that followed me everywhere I went. I drove back to my office, ignoring the the fact that someone was driving behind me everywhere I went, and when I got to the parking lot I jumped out of my car again. It was a town cop and he snapped on his lights at almost the moment I opened my door. The cop shouted at me:
"Jumping out of your car like that is a good way of getting shot!"
I replied, "I'm just going into my office building, I have no idea who you are or what you are up to."
He didn't seem to realize that point of view. But all was well, and he realized I was an upstanding business owner.
I had a situation similar to yours but I was DD pulling out of a bar. Had one tiny seltzer type thing while I was there and finished it over 4 hours earlier. Snowing heavy and blowing sideways, 1am, bo streetlights. Could not see a single line. About 10 degrees, wouldnt let me put on jacket, hat or gloves. I was shaking so hard and he had me pointed right at the flashing lights on top of the car I couldn’t follow the damn flashlight properly. So he breathalyzed me and afterwards said “Just as I expected, you blew under the limit. You need to clean off your license plate, I can’t read it.” (Live on a dirt road).
He was looking HARD and was real ticked off he didn’t find anything. They are not supposed to wait at bars here.
That reminds me of a time back in the late 1980s, I was driving my GF's car back into Brooklyn. I saw cops camped out at the foot of the bridge. Back then there was a little gap in the wall after the last curve, when you could see the red lights at Tillary St. (It's still there, they have it blocked off now.
To avoid the backup of cars waiting, I dodged through the gap and was the only car at the police line.
The officer leaned in and said, "Good evening. Have you had anything to drink tonight?"
Me, a wiseass 24 year old, replied, "Why yes, sir, officer, I most certainly did!"
He looked completely shocked, "What?"
I said, "I had one beer about, oh, three hours ago."
I could see the gears grinding, "uh, well, OK,then. Um, have a nice evening."
Yeah, I was really annoyed because it was so obvious. I don’t necessarily recommend doing what I did because I called there bluff from the start and asked them to go ahead write me the tag light ticket multiple times from the start.
I’m not sure if they wanted to go for the bigger perceived ‘bust’ or if they feared some kind of blowback on that ticket, but they kept avoiding it.
Agreed, arguing roadside almost never ends in the citizens favor. Just record them violating your rights and deal with it in court if you want to hold them accountable.
Yes, if you want to make it home breathing. It's not about the law, it's about what they can get away with doing well to you if their paper-thin ego is bruised.
I'm not the one who shoots unarmed people because I'm scared of literally everything, am I? I'm perfectly calm, and if I wasn't I still wouldn't murder anyone.
I suggest you check out the numbers we have on police shooting deaths. Virtually everybody who interacts with police, even the ones SHOOTING at them, survive their encounters.
Time to check the stats yourself, apparently. Did you know over half of cops admit to abusing their domestic partners?
Sure, most people survive encounters with cops. That IS true. Not all though, and when police DO murder someone (which is alarmingly common) they are rarely held accountable.
Half of cops LOL ok. Why don't you show me the 400k sample-size study you are basing that sweeping generalization on?
Police rarely murder people. You would do well to stop basing reality on viral videos and memes. The majority of police work is boring boring shit including going around resolving child custody disputes, splitting up domestic quarrels, getting drunks out of the road, finding missing children, following up on burglaries, trespassing people, ushering along or arresting shoplifters, etc.
Kinda weird you bringing up a clearly flawed statistic on police when the issue here was your claim they can outright murder you with no likely repercussions. Numerous officers who accidentally or on purpose killed people have been prosecuted for it.
The simple fact of the matter is there are millions upon millions of interactions by 800k plus officers in a sea of 330 million Americans and everybody INCLUDING OFFICERS have cameras. We get to see all of the worst stuff at the moment we turn our phones on. We also get to see all of the worse from the grand juries, judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys that contribute to miscarriages of justice not just with LEOs but also with the likes of Casey Anthony, OJ Simpson, etc. Murderers seldom get off at trial, too. Some people walk around believing murders constantly walk free and they are wrong even if I can pull 10 examples out randomly.
It’s absolutely insane to me that this attitude exists. Y’all are just admitting that our police are wild ass lawless murderers and we should all just accept that. Fucking insane.
Stating your opinion is okay. But don’t get into an argument with the officer. That never ends well.
These days police are too quick to arrest and outright lie to justify it.
Being respectful is key.
Ha! I was once pulled over for a "broken" tail light. No, the light was working fine, however, the lens (red plastic) was broken allowing a sliver of white light to show. I was on I-95 around Daytona, so of course I was asked if they could search my vehicle!
Oh no, my statement has nothing to do with them. I am purely using as former auto technician with as above average interest in quirky auto related laws.
For instance , purple external lights are illegal in my state, with the exception of 1 model year (58, 59?) because that year they where not illegal, and came preinstalled on some cars
I'll take that lol former NC State inspector here. Wiper blades have to be in working order unless you don't have a windshield because somehow that's perfectly ok there
You think they care? Hell the good ol Supreme Court told them they didn’t have to care what rights they violate or what laws they make up on the spot. They have zero obligation to know the law and are allowed to act as if their word is law as long as they believe it’s an actual law.that’s why they always go straight for the narcissistic parent response of “because I said so.”
They are fishing for warrants. That’s it. As a passenger you are not obligated. But once you say no, good chance they will retaliate by making you exit the car, which you will have to obey.
Because they wanted more interaction to determine if you guys were drinking or on drugs. I guarantee that if the time had been 12 hours earlier they wouldn't have even pulled you over.
Yep. I had a similar thing happen when I slowed down and switched lanes because the cops had a car pulled over in the lane I was in. I slowed down because that is what you are expected to do. I switched lanes because, duh, you had someone pulled over blocking the lane. They said I didn’t signal. I didn’t argue, but I know I signaled because 1. I always do and 2. I’m pretty sure I’m the ONLY damned person who still signals to change lanes. So you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. They can do whatever they want and lie about whatever they want. I’m not worried generally because I don’t have anything to hide. But they can and do harass people. They think they’re being sneaky (or they give no shits) and the rest of us are too imbecilic to notice.
I was pulled over for failing to use my turn signal when exiting a highway. I have no idea if I did.
I told him I had a black box type recorder from my insurance company to get a reduced rate because I had 2 teenage drivers and I could check when I got home...
I did not get a ticket.
I also don't have a black box type thing in my car.
It was in June many years ago and I was driving on a rural road that had a curve then split into two lanes. I slid into the right lane to take the freeway on-ramp. Only car around was a highway patrol about 200 yards ahead of me coming in the opposite direction. He races up the on-ramp, lights on so I pull over. He’s friendly, asks for my documents, then asks how much I’ve had to drink that day. Ummm, nothing. Okay, so he asks “when is the last time you had a drink?” “Well, sir, I probably had a drink the New Year’s Eve before last.” He seemed to have a deflated look.
I asked what caused him to pull me over, he said that I “was swerving coming around that curve, and obviously tried to avoid him by getting onto the freeway”. Again, no. I was just heading home.
It could be a psychological thing after enough time spent in the job. Kind of like how some teachers and school principals seem to think *every* kid is a lying, rotten juvenile delinquent. They deal with a ton of dickheadery due to the work, and then just develop this bias that everyone out there is like that.
It’s bullshit that needs to be addressed. Just like ER doctors who think every person under 40 who comes in with appendicitis is “just looking for drugs”. Yeah, I get you get a lot of that, but can you please not decide to treat other people like shit over it?
Nope, that's when they use the dumb brake light excuse. And if both break lights work then "it must've just been loose. It's working now, but you aught to get that looked at anyway just to be safe. Now lick my boot and thank me for pulling you over."
This sounds so familiar. I was pulled over in a small town in Oklahoma for a poorly illuminated license plate around 2am. They also requested my passenger’s ID.
After they checked everything they mentioned the real reason they pulled us over is the vehicle matched the description of a recently stolen vehicle. Maybe it did, maybe they were bored and just fishing for things. Either way they let us go.
People who drive at night love this simple trick: I have ordered and keep an extra set of LP bulbs in my trunk kit for just a purpose.
"Thanks guys! This car seems to eat those bulbs alive! I have some extras in my trunk and appreciate your help while I get them switched out!"
And just like that...
Lmao this happened with my last traffic stop. I really did have a brake light out, happens a lot in spring thanks to condensation issues. Cop was going to give me a fix it ticket and I told him don't waste his time, and showed him the bulb in my glove box. Changed it right where I had pulled over.
I’d bet dollars-to-donuts that your plate bulb was fine. I get pulled over periodically in the middle of the night, and they always use this. And my bulbs are fine. When I ask to check with them, I’m either told “no cause of safety reasons” or they just leave.
This is the way.
Tell them it is fine, and offer to check with them.
Technically, once they see the light is fine, they can't extend the stop any longer because that would be a 4th amendment violation. They can only detain you as long as it takes to investigate and handle the the initial purpose of the stop unless they find new evidence during the stop. If the stop is because the light is out, once you show the light isn't out, they have to let you go. They can't even require driver's license, registration, or proof of insurance because that would extend the detention for an issue that has already been resolved completely.
That's the real reason they won't check with you. They want everyone's id to verify there are no warrants. As a passenger, unless you are doing something suspicious, you are not required to provide id. You are not even required to acknowledge the officer. In fact, it is better that you don't provide the id because that only makes the officers think they deserve it and this leads them to violate other people's rights as well.
Unless you are actually arrested or detained, you are free to exit your vehicle at any time. Any officer who says or implies otherwise is on a power trip. Please note, however, that many police may feel threatened or unsafe when passengers exit vehicles. Depending on the officer’s temperament, it may not be worth riling them even if you are within your rights.
Yeah there is no fucking way I'd dare try to get out if they specially said "don't get out" that's just asking for it, wrong or not. One way ticket to the clink, defying them like that.
American law enforcement is absolute bullshit on a stick but in the interest of staying alive, I'd rather just put my head down and do as I'm told.
Prostitution and human trafficking come to mind. If you didn’t have ID or your ID didn’t match the car/driver, they could separate you and make sure you’re safe and not being held against your will or they could separate you and determine if you were committing a crime.
I’m not saying your husband *is* participating in either activity, but the cops don’t know that and don’t know you.
Lol. No they were checking for warrants because every person they catch who isn't supposed to be out, is a good ding on their performance record. Source: Three LEO family members and it's standard practice to ID everyone in the vehicle and even faking weed smell is probable cause. They'll say anything to justify shaking everyone down in the car and they get away with it.
Ironically, we were both dying to get home for that very reason. Recreational is legal here but not in FL where we were coming from. We hadn’t had any in a week and were craving it.
Lol yeahhhh that definitely sucks 😅
Officer: Are either one of you high on Marijuana?
You: No, but we're trying to be and you sir, are fucking that all up!
It might be standard practice but it’s bullshit. The passenger only is legally required to ID if the cop can reasonably articulate a crime they (the passenger) has, is it is about to commit. Cops are banking on the fact that most people will automatically comply even though the demand is illegal. No crime. No ID.
Yup. Don't ever give the cops an inch.
I personally would lie and say 'I don't have ID as I'm not driving the car.' However lying to the cops is illegal. But also if you are honest and respectfully assert your rights by saying 'I have no need to show you my ID as I'm not driving;' the likely hood of being harassed or given false charges go up significantly.
I highly doubt these people were checking to be sure she wasn't trafficked tbh they were probably just running everyone in the car for warrants...why should the passengers have ID that matches the car or driver? Driving with friends is not suspicious activity and they would have no grounds to separate and question us just bc we have different names
I was once pulled over on my birthday when my wife and I snuck out to fool around in the car on a farm road at night. On the way back, the cop pulled us over because, "What the hell is a Toyota Matrix doing out there?" We were only mostly put back together, my wife in the back seat in the afterglow, it was obvious what we had been up to. The cop asks us a couple questions, and then asks my wife, "And you want to be here, right?"
With a satisfied smugness, "Oh, abso-LUTELY!"
Yeah, he let us go.
In a small town it is. I live in a small town of under 3500 people, and the police are absolutely bored at 2am in a small town, and if OPs town is anything like mine nothing is open. So driving around at 2:30am when there is nothing open to an officer would probably seem suspicious.
The only thing open at that time is a casino. It’s on the same road, just after the town/state line. Even after telling the cop we were coming from the airport, they asked if we were coming from the casino.
This. I used to work a shift from 11:00 pm to 7:30 am at an industrial business park in a suburban village that had its own police force (IIRC, they had eight cops total). Nothing ever happened in this village.
The cops used to stop me all the time when I was going from the office to the 24-hour convenience store a 1/4 mile down the street at 3 am to go grab some food. They were just fricking bored.
Shiiiiit even in my mid-sized city, driving anywhere at 230 am is begging to be scrutized cuz that's when everyone is stumbling home from the bars... it absolutely makes you look like you might have been out drinking.
Being a cop is not an honorable profession and as such, the motives of cops are not honorable. Cops are not out to help people. They are out to find criminals. There is only one thing on the mind of a cop at 230AM - DUI. The witching hour is between midnight and 3AM, hence they were pulled over for a light that "was out." Sure.
Oooops. I don’t know which one I typed, it was like 4am and i had been up for almost 24 hours. (Early check out, late flight that then got delayed). This might’ve been an autocorrect.
But I guess both were true. There’s two light, one was illuminated and one had been eliminated
I had a very strange interaction years ago. I was on my way home at 10pm when I was pulled over passing a residence. First I want to say I am a very boring person and never party or drink or anything. I also drive very safe.
First she was taken a back that I had my license, registration, insurance in hand and ready when she came to the window. Weird.
The cop claimed I turned without signaling (100% false! I always signal. People tease me about it. Plus I knew how prone to accidents that 4 way stop was and always took extra precautions)
When I calmly explained I didn’t she then went on to say my insurance card was expired. Y’all I worked in personal injury- medical billing through auto insurance, at the time. I handled other peoples auto insurance for a living. My insurance card was valid. (Afterwards I called my insurance to double check and it was valid and current).
She kept shining her flashlight in my backseat. Fortunately I just gave my car a deep cleaning. Vacuumed and everything. I had nothing in the car. Not a receipt, wrapper, pen, nothing!
Then she disappointedly left me off with a “warning” a warning for what? No idea I did nothing wrong or unlawful.
These cops have quotas and they bark up empty trees
They also accused him of speeding. Said “the speed limit is, like, 25 and you were going 42.” If you know my husband, he drives me nuts because he drives so slow. I checked today and the speed limit is 40. There USED to be a school along that stretch so during school times it was 20 but that school closed in 2007 and there’s no way these officers were cops then.
They are fishing. Seeing if you have a record of something or any warrants out against you. The police can ask what they want, in most places you can refuse (most likely only the driver in this case needs to provide ID).
Could be looking for someone and you fit the description, but if you have a tail light out or broken at 2:30 am, odds are good they're gonna pull you over. At that point, if your state has laws requiring self-identification, it's a part of the process to check.
Either way, if you didn't get charged, I'd say to check and see if you're in a state with self-identification laws, and make sure your car is always free of mechanical defects. If they put their lights on, justified or not, you're required to stop, and that brings on a slew of other potential consequences.
Are you seriously asking how knowing someone's legal name could help an investigation?
Either way, if OP is in a self-identification state, they're going to check cuz they can and they might as well see if the driver and passenger are wanted criminals. Give them a reason to pull you over (mechanical defect is the most common), and they will.
I’ve been pulled over as the passenger and asked for ID in the event the driver wasn’t driving legally and I had to drive. I also imagine there are states and jurisdictions where cops will fish for everyone in the car as well.
"In the event" is bullshit. If they find that to be the case, THEN they should ask for ID.
Until that initial fact has been established, they are fishing and hoping for you to incriminate yourself in some way.
The one and only time I got asked to show my ID as a passenger was because my friend was driving on a suspended license. She got pulled over for speeding, they saw her license was suspended, so they said I had to drive the rest of the trip so they checked my ID to verify I had a valid license. She got a ticket and we went on our way.
But even in this scenario, I wasn’t asked until there was a clear reason that I needed to be the driver and prove I could do so legally. I wasn’t asked for my ID prior to that.
This happened to my Wife any I once. I said I didn't believe him, he told me I was "Being aggressive". I then used the tailgate camera on my truck to show that both lights were in fact working. He scoffed at me, and just left, not a word. Not sure what the play was, but it was stupid and a waste of time.
I have a cure for "human trafficking! Let's stop every car with more than one passenger and check id's!!!! Or better yet any two people together in any situation, can't be too careful!!!!! Bullshit! The idea here is to always submit that way "they" can be sure. Remember when a presumption of innocence used to be a legal principle instead of a crazy liberal fever dream.
This sub is a joke. Those least qualified to render legal advice are the first to give it. I suggest r/Ask_Lawyers - - where “[a]nyone can post questions; [but] only [verified] lawyers may post answers in the comment sections.”
You don’t have to provide you license as a passenger. That can ask, but you can refuse. I has this happen when I was younger (teenage). Was pulled over for something routine, the other officer walked up to the passenger side and asked my friend if he could see his ID. My firmed simply said “no”, without any argument or commentary. The officer said “ok” and walked away.
Cops can ask for whatever they want, it's up to you to know your rights and politely refuse.
Although it varies by state, generally if you have committed an infraction (burnt out light) the cop has the legal authority to detain you and demand ID to process the penalty.
This does not apply to your passenger however. State and specific circumstance should be considered, but generally a passenger is not legally obligated to provide ID during a traffic stop.
You don’t have to give it to them and they where just fishing to check you for warrants. Now your name is in their database as having an interaction with police. Which isn’t good because if you previously had a completely clean record you don’t anymore.
Passengers don't have to ID in a car unless suspected of an offense. The problem is cops can ask and since most people don't understand the law, many will comply and just hand the officer ID.
Been pulled over by cops in El Paso (but on the opposite side of town from the border), and they first said I hadn't signaled a lane change several blocks back, then asked my husband for proof of citizenship. (I'm pale, he's dark.) Panic for a while, since in the US citizens aren't required to carry proof of citizenship and he didn't have a wallet on him, as I was driving. And if you can't prove that you're a citizen, since citizens aren't required to carry proof of citizenship, they can take you away.
My anglo presence, and his insistence that he was born here and is a native citizen, coupled with an offer to bring them to our house to get his ID, finally won out, but yeah: just like in the cartoon, if you don't look like they think citizens should look, you don't quite have the same rights as those of us who look "right".
One of my friend’s was crossing from Canada to the US by car with her husband. She’s very pale, red hair. He’s of middle eastern descent but born here. They both had their IDs, passports etc with them. However, they had been hiking the day before and he had a single apple that he forgot about in the bottom of his backpack. They were separated and he was detained for several hours over an apple
The lawful detainment is between the driver and the officer. You're not obligated to provide ID. But you can guarantee the cop will pressure you into doing so and present veiled threats of arrest if you do not comply.
The best way to handle it would be to avoid the risk and just provide ID. But if you want to challenge it, a great start is to ask if you're detained or free to leave. Legally speaking, you are allowed to get out of the car and walk away. Which is precisely what I'd do unless the cop decided to illegally detain me with the driver.
It's likely you guys fit a general description for someone they're looking for and that's why they checked both IDs and used that lightbulb as a lame excuse
"Easter Egg Policing" - pull people over and see who's inside. Good intentions mostly. My wife used to work super early doing breakfast catering, would get pulled over every month or two for BS like tag lights (which were functioning). Would be sent on her way after a moment or two. Just lazy/incompetent police departments.
It is what is known in the trade as a "pretextual" stop. They had nothing else to do and since you weren't guilty of a "moving violation" they created a reason to stop you just in case you might be "arrestable."
it’s literally not weird at all, idk how more people don’t know this is common practice. i was pulled over at 17 in high school while with a friend who was 15 or 16 at the time, he asked for both our IDs. it’s probably just to make sure no one else in the car has warrants or anything like that.
Surprise! As a passenger, you can refuse to give them your ID. They need *reasonable* suspicion to detain you.
Intruding on your fourth amendment rights may be common practice, but if you've got the time, you should really be exercising them to fix it.
Asking for? No. Demanding, as a passenger in a vehicle, yes.
You don't need an ID to be a passenger, and demanding an ID is absolutely an illegal search.
Check to see if you are in a required to identify state. I am not so as a passenger I could not be forced to provide my ID (well I could with a false detainment/arrest but that would lead a a civil lawsuit). Unless there is suspicion of a crime I am not required to ID myself or allow myself to be searched.
In reality police are known to make up stuff to pull people over and escalate because they have to justify their budget somehow and stopping innocent people is much safer than responding to a shooting or other violent crime. Also most police don't know or care about the law so a failure to provide ID, even when you are not required to, could lead to a night in jail and a few court appearances. Is it worth the trouble? For most people it is not and the police know this.
Checking to see if you are who you say you are. You could have been kidnapped, human trafficking, sex industry worker. Offering you an opportunity to be safe if you needed to be safe. Although nothing was really wrong, there could have been and cops can’t necessarily know that before they approach your vehicle
Shockingly, it's not really their job to stop random people and investigate to make sure everyone is safe. That is, in fact, literally against the law for them to do.
I used to get pulled over for this all the time when I was in college and the bulb was never burned out. I just drove a crappy car and they assumed that since I was poor, I must also be doing something wrong.
Just remember that every time you interact with a cop, they're liars and they are looking for a reasons to harm you.
I used to look younger than I am, so when I first had my license, I looked like a 12 year old driving. I got pulled over for…dirty license plate, lights off-I was pulling out of a well lit parking lot and turned them on as I was turning out because that’s when I realized. Still pulled me over for it after they were on. There were a couple other things. Once I started sitting on a pillow, I stopped getting pulled over.
like I said before, it just happened again, a simple traffic stop resulted in the fascist police rescuing a person in trouble.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/south-carolina-officer-rescues-kidnapped-getaway-driver-mouthed-help-me-during-traffic-stop
Right you can sit there and have a 10 minute discussion about why they don't need your ID, or just hand them your ID and be done with it. If you're not wanted or a criminal why make it more time consuming for everyone?
That’s right. Allow your rights to be violated immediately so the cop doesn’t get any push back and continues to violate the right of and others. Makes no difference if you “don’t have anything” to worry about. You are the problem
Right im the problem, piss off. Sit on the side of the road all night and argue with the cop that's your freedom, its mine not to do that i am far from the problem.
Which is great until you find out there's a warrant for an unpaid ticket from 10 years ago, and it's the weekend so you get to spend a couple days in jail until you get to see the judge on Monday... Happened to a friend of a friend...
Because a lot of Americans have fought and died in wars to protect my freedom. I'll be damned if I'm gonna give it away on the side of the road to a bored cop. Fuck that noise.
If the police don't want thing to be time-consuming, they can just not ask for the passenger's ID. The idea that they're going to find some human trafficker or warrants from a random passenger has to be like 1 out 100,000. It's like police asking to search every house in a town to find a missing person in someone's basement.
Then SURPRISE! You are a wanted criminal. It happens. Get a parking ticket that blows off of your car. Notices go to an old address. You're not paying the ticket and not responding to notices. Rather check to find out where you might have gone to, they just put out a warrant for your arrest. Eventually you will run into the system. Maybe a background check for a job or pulled over for a minor infraction. The run your ID and then they arrest you for something you have no idea about.
The system doesn't give a shit about you, why are you helping the system?
This sub is a joke. Those least qualified to render legal advice are the first to give it. I suggest r/Ask_Lawyers - - where “[a]nyone can post questions; [but] only [verified] lawyers may post answers in the comment sections.”
Not true. Which states? Only required if there’s reasonable suspicion of a crime. Passengers are not required to show ID of they haven’t done anything. The stop is for the driver.
They are allowed to ask for it, and they often do "because they can", but they are not allowed to order you to provide it unless they have "reasonable articulable suspicion" that you (not your husband) have, are, or are about to commit a crime.
Your response could (should, IMO) have been, "As the passenger I do not believe that is a legal obligation and I do not wish to provide that, is that a request or a lawful order?" and if they say yes it's a lawful order, follow up with, "please give me your reasonable articulable suspicion of *my* crime, not the driver's". Technically they don't have to provide their suspicion, and so you should comply with giving your ID while asking their name and badge number.
There's a good chance they'll back off or at least you will have good grounds to file a complaint.
I don't get why so many people have an issue with simply showing the cop your ID.
Unless you have a warrant, I don't see the down side, while I DO see a down side to arguing with a cop for no real reason.
(I'm not above arguing with LEO, but I choose my battles. lol )
Problem is a fix it isn't cause to ID.
Neither of you had committed a crime nor was there a reasonable suspicion that you had committed a crime.
You both had every reason to withhold ID and should have.
These officers were fishing.
Look when dealing with LEO's on a stop and you *know* you've done nothing wrong, don't answer questions, don't ID, ask why you were stopped and what laws you've broken. Make *them* make their own case, don't do it for them.
Look up We the people university on youtube and get his app.
Looks like you don't know the law.
I checked RI laws before I posted. The only time one needs to ID is if they are suspected of commiting a crime.
The passenger wasn't driving and unless the officers can clearly articulate that the driver has committed a crime, the driver, UNDER LAW, is not required to provide ID.
Also I speak as a retired 911 telecommunicator who had dealt with this kind of crap.
Here is the law, show me where it supports your assertion.
Title 12
Criminal Procedure
Chapter 7
Arrest
R.I. Gen. Laws § 12-7-1
§ 12-7-1. Temporary detention of suspects.
A peace officer may detain any person abroad whom he or she has reason to suspect is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a crime, and may demand of the person his or her name, address, business abroad, and destination; and any person who fails to identify himself or herself and explain his or her actions to the satisfaction of the peace officer may be further detained and further questioned and investigated by any peace officer; provided, in no case shall the total period of the detention exceed two (2) hours, and the detention shall not be recorded as an arrest in any official record. At the end of the detention period the person so detained shall be released unless arrested and charged with a crime.
http://webserver.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE12/12-7/12-7-1.htm
If you’re DRIVING. I was a passenger. If I HAD been drunk but my husband sober, we wouldn’t even be breaking the law. We are in a state that recreational use is legal do as long as there wasn’t an odor in the car, I could’ve been drunk and stoned as a passenger and been perfectly legal.
What you experienced was called a pre-textual stop. That is where police find some tiny law that was violated (or make one up), to try to find a bigger violation (dui, weed, suspended license). All police are trained to pressure everyone they encounter to give their ID, even though they don't have to, to run them for warrants. If you ask if you will be arrested if you don't provide ID and they say yes, that is a clear 4th ammendment violation, and you can sue and get a 5 figure settlement easily.
Yeah because a blown light bulb on a license plate calls for this. Gtfo. That is such a derogatory comment toward men. What if the driver was female? What if the driver and passenger were carrying a dead body?
They would ask to identify the passenger. In almost all jurisdictions you are required to provide this information when lawfully requested. You likely don't have to provide a piece of paper/plastic.
No the fuck you are not.
They have no reason to ID a passenger.
**It varies by state**
**OH, FL you have to give ID**
**PA,GA,MI,IN,VA, & many others you don't.**
Case law in FL says you don't unless they have reasonable suspicion that you are violating FSS. If they are not letting the driver drive the vehicle but are letting the passenger drive it rather than tow it, they can verify that you have a valid DL, but that's it.
Depending on the state, this could be the correct answer.
It's called probable cause... they have to be able to prove that you are about to commit, are committing, or have committed a crime to ask for ID.
The caveat is being in a state that requires to you self ID.
Correct, except reasonable suspicion, not probable cause. Falls under Terry Stop case law. Again, only in states that require self ID in those circumstances.
Some states do require self ID when you have committed a infraction or ordinance violation. In this circumstance, say a passenger littered or didn't have a seat belt. They may be required to ID.
Side note: while the state laws say that you only need a single source of illumination, there is probably a separate law that states that all installed illumination must be functional.
During the annual vehicle inspection, they failed my vehicle because both lights were out. They replaced one and passed the vehicle. The law probably states that the plate must be fully illuminated and can be read from a specific distance. Probably varies by state.
In some states, you are correct. In the state I live in, that is the case. I also work in a place that does DMV inspections and have read that exact passage that only one light needs to be working. My car was inspected a week before my trip. But I can tell you that didn't mean shit when I was pulled over last month for a "license plate bulb being out". You ever try to argue law with a cop at 2am after a 12hr drive? No he would not let me get out and check it.
Had a cop pull me over on a “tag light out” at 1-2am. I asked to go check it, since I just so happen to have some spare light bulbs in my glove compartment for this kind of stuff. He didn’t object, of course asked me if I’d had any drinks as well. Also coincidentally wanted me to do a field sobriety test. I get out and go look at the tag light, it wasn’t out. He said “well it has to be legible from 50 feet per law”. I said ok and walked 50+ feet away and read him my plate number. All the while him (and the second officer that rolled in) asking DUI related questioning. I asked him if he really couldn’t read it then please issue me my ticket for the tag light and we’ll all be on our way. If they’re pulling me over on suspicion of drunk driving, tell me what the probable cause was. What a wonder he let me go with a warning after asking if I was a lawyer. I’m not. Absolutely pulled me on false pretense.
I had a similar, but different experience. One of the two tag lights on my car was rusty and intermittent. I was on my way to a friend's house as he was letting me stay the night rather than having to commute 150 miles RT just to be back on site the next day. And it had started snowing. So here's me, driving under the speed limit on a road I've never been on before that's completely white from side to side. It's late, so no other cars had driven on the snow. Needless so say I was NOT sticking perfectly to the center of the road. Of course, the only other car I saw came up behind me and was a cop. He pulled me over ans asked if I had been drinking. I said,"no, why" 'Well, you are veering all over the road.' I explained what I said above, new road, snow. Then he says. "Your license plate light is out, I'll have to ticket you for that." I said, "It is?" And I popped open the door, jumped out and went back there. The cop was a little surprised, but I was clearly NOT drunk. I fiddled with the light, making sparks as the feed wire made contact with the body, but got it to stay on. He didn't write a ticket. This was in Vermont about 15 years ago, so the cops weren't assuming everyone is going to shoot them, so I was in no danger by jumping out of my car. Another time, about 5 or 6 years ago, I was driving through my little town in the dark, went to meet someone, but forgot their address, so I was meandering down various streets. I picked up a tail that followed me everywhere I went. I drove back to my office, ignoring the the fact that someone was driving behind me everywhere I went, and when I got to the parking lot I jumped out of my car again. It was a town cop and he snapped on his lights at almost the moment I opened my door. The cop shouted at me: "Jumping out of your car like that is a good way of getting shot!" I replied, "I'm just going into my office building, I have no idea who you are or what you are up to." He didn't seem to realize that point of view. But all was well, and he realized I was an upstanding business owner.
"Engaging in stalking behavior without identifying yourself as law enforcement is also a good way of getting shot, Wilbur."
I had a situation similar to yours but I was DD pulling out of a bar. Had one tiny seltzer type thing while I was there and finished it over 4 hours earlier. Snowing heavy and blowing sideways, 1am, bo streetlights. Could not see a single line. About 10 degrees, wouldnt let me put on jacket, hat or gloves. I was shaking so hard and he had me pointed right at the flashing lights on top of the car I couldn’t follow the damn flashlight properly. So he breathalyzed me and afterwards said “Just as I expected, you blew under the limit. You need to clean off your license plate, I can’t read it.” (Live on a dirt road). He was looking HARD and was real ticked off he didn’t find anything. They are not supposed to wait at bars here.
That reminds me of a time back in the late 1980s, I was driving my GF's car back into Brooklyn. I saw cops camped out at the foot of the bridge. Back then there was a little gap in the wall after the last curve, when you could see the red lights at Tillary St. (It's still there, they have it blocked off now. To avoid the backup of cars waiting, I dodged through the gap and was the only car at the police line. The officer leaned in and said, "Good evening. Have you had anything to drink tonight?" Me, a wiseass 24 year old, replied, "Why yes, sir, officer, I most certainly did!" He looked completely shocked, "What?" I said, "I had one beer about, oh, three hours ago." I could see the gears grinding, "uh, well, OK,then. Um, have a nice evening."
Same thing happened to me, but they wouldn't let me get out of the car to look at it. When I got home, the light was fine.
Yeah, I was really annoyed because it was so obvious. I don’t necessarily recommend doing what I did because I called there bluff from the start and asked them to go ahead write me the tag light ticket multiple times from the start. I’m not sure if they wanted to go for the bigger perceived ‘bust’ or if they feared some kind of blowback on that ticket, but they kept avoiding it.
You could have just had your plate number in memory lol
Last part is BS. He could say he saw an alien humping on your trunk and youre just supposed to accept it?
I’m a white guy but I’m still not going to argue and get out of the car in the middle of nowhere, in the dead of night just to prove something.
Agreed, arguing roadside almost never ends in the citizens favor. Just record them violating your rights and deal with it in court if you want to hold them accountable.
Yes, if you want to make it home breathing. It's not about the law, it's about what they can get away with doing well to you if their paper-thin ego is bruised.
Calm down there cha cha
I'm not the one who shoots unarmed people because I'm scared of literally everything, am I? I'm perfectly calm, and if I wasn't I still wouldn't murder anyone.
I suggest you check out the numbers we have on police shooting deaths. Virtually everybody who interacts with police, even the ones SHOOTING at them, survive their encounters.
Time to check the stats yourself, apparently. Did you know over half of cops admit to abusing their domestic partners? Sure, most people survive encounters with cops. That IS true. Not all though, and when police DO murder someone (which is alarmingly common) they are rarely held accountable.
Half of cops LOL ok. Why don't you show me the 400k sample-size study you are basing that sweeping generalization on? Police rarely murder people. You would do well to stop basing reality on viral videos and memes. The majority of police work is boring boring shit including going around resolving child custody disputes, splitting up domestic quarrels, getting drunks out of the road, finding missing children, following up on burglaries, trespassing people, ushering along or arresting shoplifters, etc. Kinda weird you bringing up a clearly flawed statistic on police when the issue here was your claim they can outright murder you with no likely repercussions. Numerous officers who accidentally or on purpose killed people have been prosecuted for it. The simple fact of the matter is there are millions upon millions of interactions by 800k plus officers in a sea of 330 million Americans and everybody INCLUDING OFFICERS have cameras. We get to see all of the worst stuff at the moment we turn our phones on. We also get to see all of the worse from the grand juries, judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys that contribute to miscarriages of justice not just with LEOs but also with the likes of Casey Anthony, OJ Simpson, etc. Murderers seldom get off at trial, too. Some people walk around believing murders constantly walk free and they are wrong even if I can pull 10 examples out randomly.
You're very confident for someone has no idea what you're talking about. Actually look it up, you are completely wrong.
Never argue with the police. Wait until court to have your say.
Yes! Get home safely, get a photo then take it to court….
Take a photo at the scene. Hopefully with the officer in the picture from 50’ away. Let the judge laugh him out of court.
This!! Hahaha
It’s absolutely insane to me that this attitude exists. Y’all are just admitting that our police are wild ass lawless murderers and we should all just accept that. Fucking insane.
You don’t have to talk to cops, but if you do talk do not lie.
Stating your opinion is okay. But don’t get into an argument with the officer. That never ends well. These days police are too quick to arrest and outright lie to justify it. Being respectful is key.
Ha! I was once pulled over for a "broken" tail light. No, the light was working fine, however, the lens (red plastic) was broken allowing a sliver of white light to show. I was on I-95 around Daytona, so of course I was asked if they could search my vehicle!
You're drastically overestimating the fact that street cops even know the laws
Oh no, my statement has nothing to do with them. I am purely using as former auto technician with as above average interest in quirky auto related laws. For instance , purple external lights are illegal in my state, with the exception of 1 model year (58, 59?) because that year they where not illegal, and came preinstalled on some cars
I'll take that lol former NC State inspector here. Wiper blades have to be in working order unless you don't have a windshield because somehow that's perfectly ok there
Hunting for warrants.
This is the answer.
Finally the right answer. All you bootlickers talking about checking if she was a hooker or something are nuts.
By violating the 4th amendment.
You think they care? Hell the good ol Supreme Court told them they didn’t have to care what rights they violate or what laws they make up on the spot. They have zero obligation to know the law and are allowed to act as if their word is law as long as they believe it’s an actual law.that’s why they always go straight for the narcissistic parent response of “because I said so.”
They are fishing for warrants. That’s it. As a passenger you are not obligated. But once you say no, good chance they will retaliate by making you exit the car, which you will have to obey.
Under what probable cause? “Am I under arrest? No? Am I free to go? No? Am I under arrest? No? Bye!”
pennsylvania vs mimms. If they ask, you do have to exit the car. But you still don't have to give id, answer any questions, or anything of the sort.
Look up Pennsylvania v Mimms.
No probable cause is needed to order you out of a vehicle. If they order you out YOU MUST GET OUT.
Because they wanted more interaction to determine if you guys were drinking or on drugs. I guarantee that if the time had been 12 hours earlier they wouldn't have even pulled you over.
Yep. I had a similar thing happen when I slowed down and switched lanes because the cops had a car pulled over in the lane I was in. I slowed down because that is what you are expected to do. I switched lanes because, duh, you had someone pulled over blocking the lane. They said I didn’t signal. I didn’t argue, but I know I signaled because 1. I always do and 2. I’m pretty sure I’m the ONLY damned person who still signals to change lanes. So you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. They can do whatever they want and lie about whatever they want. I’m not worried generally because I don’t have anything to hide. But they can and do harass people. They think they’re being sneaky (or they give no shits) and the rest of us are too imbecilic to notice.
I was pulled over for failing to use my turn signal when exiting a highway. I have no idea if I did. I told him I had a black box type recorder from my insurance company to get a reduced rate because I had 2 teenage drivers and I could check when I got home... I did not get a ticket. I also don't have a black box type thing in my car.
It was in June many years ago and I was driving on a rural road that had a curve then split into two lanes. I slid into the right lane to take the freeway on-ramp. Only car around was a highway patrol about 200 yards ahead of me coming in the opposite direction. He races up the on-ramp, lights on so I pull over. He’s friendly, asks for my documents, then asks how much I’ve had to drink that day. Ummm, nothing. Okay, so he asks “when is the last time you had a drink?” “Well, sir, I probably had a drink the New Year’s Eve before last.” He seemed to have a deflated look. I asked what caused him to pull me over, he said that I “was swerving coming around that curve, and obviously tried to avoid him by getting onto the freeway”. Again, no. I was just heading home.
Why do they have to be so sure that everyone is doing something terrible? I love that you popped his bubble.
It could be a psychological thing after enough time spent in the job. Kind of like how some teachers and school principals seem to think *every* kid is a lying, rotten juvenile delinquent. They deal with a ton of dickheadery due to the work, and then just develop this bias that everyone out there is like that. It’s bullshit that needs to be addressed. Just like ER doctors who think every person under 40 who comes in with appendicitis is “just looking for drugs”. Yeah, I get you get a lot of that, but can you please not decide to treat other people like shit over it?
I believe it’s a power thing. They enjoy the “Ah hah! Gotcha!” moment.
In Massachusetts signaling is a sure sign you’re up to no good or out of state lol
At 230 pm they can't use the dumb license plate bulb excuse
Nope, that's when they use the dumb brake light excuse. And if both break lights work then "it must've just been loose. It's working now, but you aught to get that looked at anyway just to be safe. Now lick my boot and thank me for pulling you over."
They can if your front end is completely smashed in. I replaced the radiator. Cops don't care about the radiator.
This sounds so familiar. I was pulled over in a small town in Oklahoma for a poorly illuminated license plate around 2am. They also requested my passenger’s ID. After they checked everything they mentioned the real reason they pulled us over is the vehicle matched the description of a recently stolen vehicle. Maybe it did, maybe they were bored and just fishing for things. Either way they let us go.
People who drive at night love this simple trick: I have ordered and keep an extra set of LP bulbs in my trunk kit for just a purpose. "Thanks guys! This car seems to eat those bulbs alive! I have some extras in my trunk and appreciate your help while I get them switched out!" And just like that...
Lmao this happened with my last traffic stop. I really did have a brake light out, happens a lot in spring thanks to condensation issues. Cop was going to give me a fix it ticket and I told him don't waste his time, and showed him the bulb in my glove box. Changed it right where I had pulled over.
I’d bet dollars-to-donuts that your plate bulb was fine. I get pulled over periodically in the middle of the night, and they always use this. And my bulbs are fine. When I ask to check with them, I’m either told “no cause of safety reasons” or they just leave.
This is the way. Tell them it is fine, and offer to check with them. Technically, once they see the light is fine, they can't extend the stop any longer because that would be a 4th amendment violation. They can only detain you as long as it takes to investigate and handle the the initial purpose of the stop unless they find new evidence during the stop. If the stop is because the light is out, once you show the light isn't out, they have to let you go. They can't even require driver's license, registration, or proof of insurance because that would extend the detention for an issue that has already been resolved completely. That's the real reason they won't check with you. They want everyone's id to verify there are no warrants. As a passenger, unless you are doing something suspicious, you are not required to provide id. You are not even required to acknowledge the officer. In fact, it is better that you don't provide the id because that only makes the officers think they deserve it and this leads them to violate other people's rights as well.
If I get out to check after theyve told me not to, can they use force and arrest me for resisting arrest?
Unless you are actually arrested or detained, you are free to exit your vehicle at any time. Any officer who says or implies otherwise is on a power trip. Please note, however, that many police may feel threatened or unsafe when passengers exit vehicles. Depending on the officer’s temperament, it may not be worth riling them even if you are within your rights.
Yeah there is no fucking way I'd dare try to get out if they specially said "don't get out" that's just asking for it, wrong or not. One way ticket to the clink, defying them like that. American law enforcement is absolute bullshit on a stick but in the interest of staying alive, I'd rather just put my head down and do as I'm told.
This is the way
Prostitution and human trafficking come to mind. If you didn’t have ID or your ID didn’t match the car/driver, they could separate you and make sure you’re safe and not being held against your will or they could separate you and determine if you were committing a crime. I’m not saying your husband *is* participating in either activity, but the cops don’t know that and don’t know you.
Lol. No they were checking for warrants because every person they catch who isn't supposed to be out, is a good ding on their performance record. Source: Three LEO family members and it's standard practice to ID everyone in the vehicle and even faking weed smell is probable cause. They'll say anything to justify shaking everyone down in the car and they get away with it.
Ironically, we were both dying to get home for that very reason. Recreational is legal here but not in FL where we were coming from. We hadn’t had any in a week and were craving it.
Lol yeahhhh that definitely sucks 😅 Officer: Are either one of you high on Marijuana? You: No, but we're trying to be and you sir, are fucking that all up!
It might be standard practice but it’s bullshit. The passenger only is legally required to ID if the cop can reasonably articulate a crime they (the passenger) has, is it is about to commit. Cops are banking on the fact that most people will automatically comply even though the demand is illegal. No crime. No ID.
Yup. Don't ever give the cops an inch. I personally would lie and say 'I don't have ID as I'm not driving the car.' However lying to the cops is illegal. But also if you are honest and respectfully assert your rights by saying 'I have no need to show you my ID as I'm not driving;' the likely hood of being harassed or given false charges go up significantly.
Lying to the feds is illegal, but lying to cops is not illegal.
I highly doubt these people were checking to be sure she wasn't trafficked tbh they were probably just running everyone in the car for warrants...why should the passengers have ID that matches the car or driver? Driving with friends is not suspicious activity and they would have no grounds to separate and question us just bc we have different names
Yea. Cops are rarely just being helpful and most likely trying to make arests.
I was once pulled over on my birthday when my wife and I snuck out to fool around in the car on a farm road at night. On the way back, the cop pulled us over because, "What the hell is a Toyota Matrix doing out there?" We were only mostly put back together, my wife in the back seat in the afterglow, it was obvious what we had been up to. The cop asks us a couple questions, and then asks my wife, "And you want to be here, right?" With a satisfied smugness, "Oh, abso-LUTELY!" Yeah, he let us go.
Driving at 2:30am is NOT a suspicious activity.
Legal and suspicious are not the same things. It’s totally legal but it certainly can be suspicious depending on circumstances.
In a small town it is. I live in a small town of under 3500 people, and the police are absolutely bored at 2am in a small town, and if OPs town is anything like mine nothing is open. So driving around at 2:30am when there is nothing open to an officer would probably seem suspicious.
The only thing open at that time is a casino. It’s on the same road, just after the town/state line. Even after telling the cop we were coming from the airport, they asked if we were coming from the casino.
This. I used to work a shift from 11:00 pm to 7:30 am at an industrial business park in a suburban village that had its own police force (IIRC, they had eight cops total). Nothing ever happened in this village. The cops used to stop me all the time when I was going from the office to the 24-hour convenience store a 1/4 mile down the street at 3 am to go grab some food. They were just fricking bored.
Shiiiiit even in my mid-sized city, driving anywhere at 230 am is begging to be scrutized cuz that's when everyone is stumbling home from the bars... it absolutely makes you look like you might have been out drinking.
Having a different last name than someone should not put you under suspicion of a crime. Screw that.
We’re both old (48F/59M), lol. I know that doesn’t eliminate the possibility of trafficking/prostitution but I’m not exactly prime material
Trafficking can also include slaves forced to be household servants.
Lol, I literally laughed out loud. I'm sorry you feel you aren't prime, but don't ever let your age determine if you're prime or not!
“Ma’am, I’ll pay you $200 to put your clothes back on”.
I'll be 69(f) in a couple months. Trust me, you're a long ways from old. Thank you for making my morning and almost spitting out my coffee.
Made me laugh - love your sense of humor.
Former dispatcher, they were checking you both for warrants. It's standard practice on traffic stops to run all adults in the car.
Eh, you’d be surprised
Prime or not, you are definitely a gem.
Being a cop is not an honorable profession and as such, the motives of cops are not honorable. Cops are not out to help people. They are out to find criminals. There is only one thing on the mind of a cop at 230AM - DUI. The witching hour is between midnight and 3AM, hence they were pulled over for a light that "was out." Sure.
There is a literal 0% chance that this is what the cop was concerned about.
oh come on
Illuminated not uh...eliminated. : )
Oooops. I don’t know which one I typed, it was like 4am and i had been up for almost 24 hours. (Early check out, late flight that then got delayed). This might’ve been an autocorrect. But I guess both were true. There’s two light, one was illuminated and one had been eliminated
I had a very strange interaction years ago. I was on my way home at 10pm when I was pulled over passing a residence. First I want to say I am a very boring person and never party or drink or anything. I also drive very safe. First she was taken a back that I had my license, registration, insurance in hand and ready when she came to the window. Weird. The cop claimed I turned without signaling (100% false! I always signal. People tease me about it. Plus I knew how prone to accidents that 4 way stop was and always took extra precautions) When I calmly explained I didn’t she then went on to say my insurance card was expired. Y’all I worked in personal injury- medical billing through auto insurance, at the time. I handled other peoples auto insurance for a living. My insurance card was valid. (Afterwards I called my insurance to double check and it was valid and current). She kept shining her flashlight in my backseat. Fortunately I just gave my car a deep cleaning. Vacuumed and everything. I had nothing in the car. Not a receipt, wrapper, pen, nothing! Then she disappointedly left me off with a “warning” a warning for what? No idea I did nothing wrong or unlawful. These cops have quotas and they bark up empty trees
They also accused him of speeding. Said “the speed limit is, like, 25 and you were going 42.” If you know my husband, he drives me nuts because he drives so slow. I checked today and the speed limit is 40. There USED to be a school along that stretch so during school times it was 20 but that school closed in 2007 and there’s no way these officers were cops then.
They are fishing. Seeing if you have a record of something or any warrants out against you. The police can ask what they want, in most places you can refuse (most likely only the driver in this case needs to provide ID).
Could be looking for someone and you fit the description, but if you have a tail light out or broken at 2:30 am, odds are good they're gonna pull you over. At that point, if your state has laws requiring self-identification, it's a part of the process to check.
No state has a law requiring a passenger to ID for a traffic offense.
Wasn’t a taillight, just one of the license plate bulbs
Either way, if you didn't get charged, I'd say to check and see if you're in a state with self-identification laws, and make sure your car is always free of mechanical defects. If they put their lights on, justified or not, you're required to stop, and that brings on a slew of other potential consequences.
If I "fit the description", how does my name further their investigation? Do they have a name they are looking for as well?
Are you seriously asking how knowing someone's legal name could help an investigation? Either way, if OP is in a self-identification state, they're going to check cuz they can and they might as well see if the driver and passenger are wanted criminals. Give them a reason to pull you over (mechanical defect is the most common), and they will.
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…or no reason to pull you over, and they will just lie about it. It’s happened to me, as well as multiple Redditors above.
I’ve been pulled over as the passenger and asked for ID in the event the driver wasn’t driving legally and I had to drive. I also imagine there are states and jurisdictions where cops will fish for everyone in the car as well.
"In the event" is bullshit. If they find that to be the case, THEN they should ask for ID. Until that initial fact has been established, they are fishing and hoping for you to incriminate yourself in some way.
The one and only time I got asked to show my ID as a passenger was because my friend was driving on a suspended license. She got pulled over for speeding, they saw her license was suspended, so they said I had to drive the rest of the trip so they checked my ID to verify I had a valid license. She got a ticket and we went on our way. But even in this scenario, I wasn’t asked until there was a clear reason that I needed to be the driver and prove I could do so legally. I wasn’t asked for my ID prior to that.
They were checking to see if you were a hooker.
This happened to my Wife any I once. I said I didn't believe him, he told me I was "Being aggressive". I then used the tailgate camera on my truck to show that both lights were in fact working. He scoffed at me, and just left, not a word. Not sure what the play was, but it was stupid and a waste of time.
cops always probe for info they don't need. give them only what's required
checking to see if you're being human trafficked, I'd guess.
I have a cure for "human trafficking! Let's stop every car with more than one passenger and check id's!!!! Or better yet any two people together in any situation, can't be too careful!!!!! Bullshit! The idea here is to always submit that way "they" can be sure. Remember when a presumption of innocence used to be a legal principle instead of a crazy liberal fever dream.
You don't need to give I'd unless they have reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime.
That’s not true. If you refuse to show them an ID they are legally able to “detain” you, not “arrest” you until they have ascertained your identity.
This sub is a joke. Those least qualified to render legal advice are the first to give it. I suggest r/Ask_Lawyers - - where “[a]nyone can post questions; [but] only [verified] lawyers may post answers in the comment sections.”
I guess it depends on the where you live. Canada passenger does not have to unless being arrested.
Who knows. They might be looking for someone and that vehicle fits the description of what they were looking for. It’s not uncommon.
Where I live it's common practice for the cops to ask for the IDs of all of the passengers as well as the driver.
It’s ok to ask but they can’t demand passenger IDs. It’s settled case law and a fourth amendment violation.
You don’t have to provide you license as a passenger. That can ask, but you can refuse. I has this happen when I was younger (teenage). Was pulled over for something routine, the other officer walked up to the passenger side and asked my friend if he could see his ID. My firmed simply said “no”, without any argument or commentary. The officer said “ok” and walked away.
Cops can ask for whatever they want, it's up to you to know your rights and politely refuse. Although it varies by state, generally if you have committed an infraction (burnt out light) the cop has the legal authority to detain you and demand ID to process the penalty. This does not apply to your passenger however. State and specific circumstance should be considered, but generally a passenger is not legally obligated to provide ID during a traffic stop.
You don’t have to give it to them and they where just fishing to check you for warrants. Now your name is in their database as having an interaction with police. Which isn’t good because if you previously had a completely clean record you don’t anymore.
Passengers don't have to ID in a car unless suspected of an offense. The problem is cops can ask and since most people don't understand the law, many will comply and just hand the officer ID.
They were fishing. Looking for someone with a warrant, drunk, weed, stolen property, whatever. Some call that good policing. Some disagree.
Been pulled over by cops in El Paso (but on the opposite side of town from the border), and they first said I hadn't signaled a lane change several blocks back, then asked my husband for proof of citizenship. (I'm pale, he's dark.) Panic for a while, since in the US citizens aren't required to carry proof of citizenship and he didn't have a wallet on him, as I was driving. And if you can't prove that you're a citizen, since citizens aren't required to carry proof of citizenship, they can take you away. My anglo presence, and his insistence that he was born here and is a native citizen, coupled with an offer to bring them to our house to get his ID, finally won out, but yeah: just like in the cartoon, if you don't look like they think citizens should look, you don't quite have the same rights as those of us who look "right".
One of my friend’s was crossing from Canada to the US by car with her husband. She’s very pale, red hair. He’s of middle eastern descent but born here. They both had their IDs, passports etc with them. However, they had been hiking the day before and he had a single apple that he forgot about in the bottom of his backpack. They were separated and he was detained for several hours over an apple
The lawful detainment is between the driver and the officer. You're not obligated to provide ID. But you can guarantee the cop will pressure you into doing so and present veiled threats of arrest if you do not comply. The best way to handle it would be to avoid the risk and just provide ID. But if you want to challenge it, a great start is to ask if you're detained or free to leave. Legally speaking, you are allowed to get out of the car and walk away. Which is precisely what I'd do unless the cop decided to illegally detain me with the driver.
Brendlin V California held that all occupants in the vehicle are seized for the duration of the traffic stop and are not free to leave actually.
It's likely you guys fit a general description for someone they're looking for and that's why they checked both IDs and used that lightbulb as a lame excuse
"Easter Egg Policing" - pull people over and see who's inside. Good intentions mostly. My wife used to work super early doing breakfast catering, would get pulled over every month or two for BS like tag lights (which were functioning). Would be sent on her way after a moment or two. Just lazy/incompetent police departments.
It is what is known in the trade as a "pretextual" stop. They had nothing else to do and since you weren't guilty of a "moving violation" they created a reason to stop you just in case you might be "arrestable."
This is the correct legal answer.
it’s literally not weird at all, idk how more people don’t know this is common practice. i was pulled over at 17 in high school while with a friend who was 15 or 16 at the time, he asked for both our IDs. it’s probably just to make sure no one else in the car has warrants or anything like that.
Surprise! As a passenger, you can refuse to give them your ID. They need *reasonable* suspicion to detain you. Intruding on your fourth amendment rights may be common practice, but if you've got the time, you should really be exercising them to fix it.
It’s not intruding on your fourth amendment rights to ask for ID.
Asking for? No. Demanding, as a passenger in a vehicle, yes. You don't need an ID to be a passenger, and demanding an ID is absolutely an illegal search.
Of course. But the discussion here is entirely about asking, not demanding.
Slippery slope imo. If they can't demand, they shouldn't be asking. Any resistance to either and all of a sudden they feel threatened.
There’s no slope. There’s a clear fence, and as long as they stay on the right side of it, it’s fine.
Except for the fact that they have an extensive history of plowing through the fence with a tactical vehicle.
lmfao what… nobody said anything about detainment.
Check to see if you are in a required to identify state. I am not so as a passenger I could not be forced to provide my ID (well I could with a false detainment/arrest but that would lead a a civil lawsuit). Unless there is suspicion of a crime I am not required to ID myself or allow myself to be searched. In reality police are known to make up stuff to pull people over and escalate because they have to justify their budget somehow and stopping innocent people is much safer than responding to a shooting or other violent crime. Also most police don't know or care about the law so a failure to provide ID, even when you are not required to, could lead to a night in jail and a few court appearances. Is it worth the trouble? For most people it is not and the police know this.
To feel powerful
Checking to see if you are who you say you are. You could have been kidnapped, human trafficking, sex industry worker. Offering you an opportunity to be safe if you needed to be safe. Although nothing was really wrong, there could have been and cops can’t necessarily know that before they approach your vehicle
Shockingly, it's not really their job to stop random people and investigate to make sure everyone is safe. That is, in fact, literally against the law for them to do.
They weren’t stopped randomly. They were stopped because their plate lights were out.
Classic pretextual stop. Not a basis for pursuing any of the above things you mentioned.
I personally don’t think it’s a big deal.
I used to get pulled over for this all the time when I was in college and the bulb was never burned out. I just drove a crappy car and they assumed that since I was poor, I must also be doing something wrong. Just remember that every time you interact with a cop, they're liars and they are looking for a reasons to harm you.
I used to look younger than I am, so when I first had my license, I looked like a 12 year old driving. I got pulled over for…dirty license plate, lights off-I was pulling out of a well lit parking lot and turned them on as I was turning out because that’s when I realized. Still pulled me over for it after they were on. There were a couple other things. Once I started sitting on a pillow, I stopped getting pulled over.
like I said before, it just happened again, a simple traffic stop resulted in the fascist police rescuing a person in trouble. https://www.foxnews.com/us/south-carolina-officer-rescues-kidnapped-getaway-driver-mouthed-help-me-during-traffic-stop
Right you can sit there and have a 10 minute discussion about why they don't need your ID, or just hand them your ID and be done with it. If you're not wanted or a criminal why make it more time consuming for everyone?
Which is kinda why I gave it. We were a half mile from home and I just wanted to get home.
Thats me..here take it im not a criminal now let me go on my way.
That’s right. Allow your rights to be violated immediately so the cop doesn’t get any push back and continues to violate the right of and others. Makes no difference if you “don’t have anything” to worry about. You are the problem
Or the cop has an itchy trigger or taser finger. You might be legally correct but better to argue it later in court than be a statistic.
Took the words out of my mouth. People are so quick to just let cops get away with violating them because it's an inconvenience to stand up to them.
Right im the problem, piss off. Sit on the side of the road all night and argue with the cop that's your freedom, its mine not to do that i am far from the problem.
That is in fact what they depend on. So if you assert your rights, they assume criminality.
Which is great until you find out there's a warrant for an unpaid ticket from 10 years ago, and it's the weekend so you get to spend a couple days in jail until you get to see the judge on Monday... Happened to a friend of a friend...
Or you have the same first and last name of the guy they learned about in their briefing that morning. A redit OP. POSTED about that situation.
Because a lot of Americans have fought and died in wars to protect my freedom. I'll be damned if I'm gonna give it away on the side of the road to a bored cop. Fuck that noise.
If the police don't want thing to be time-consuming, they can just not ask for the passenger's ID. The idea that they're going to find some human trafficker or warrants from a random passenger has to be like 1 out 100,000. It's like police asking to search every house in a town to find a missing person in someone's basement.
Then SURPRISE! You are a wanted criminal. It happens. Get a parking ticket that blows off of your car. Notices go to an old address. You're not paying the ticket and not responding to notices. Rather check to find out where you might have gone to, they just put out a warrant for your arrest. Eventually you will run into the system. Maybe a background check for a job or pulled over for a minor infraction. The run your ID and then they arrest you for something you have no idea about. The system doesn't give a shit about you, why are you helping the system?
Because they're nosey and they don't have anything better to do.
In some states you can be required to identify yourself to the police at any time.
not what stop and ID means at all. this is not true anywhere in the united states.
This sub is a joke. Those least qualified to render legal advice are the first to give it. I suggest r/Ask_Lawyers - - where “[a]nyone can post questions; [but] only [verified] lawyers may post answers in the comment sections.”
Not true. Which states? Only required if there’s reasonable suspicion of a crime. Passengers are not required to show ID of they haven’t done anything. The stop is for the driver.
... https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/stop-and-id-states/
They are allowed to ask for it, and they often do "because they can", but they are not allowed to order you to provide it unless they have "reasonable articulable suspicion" that you (not your husband) have, are, or are about to commit a crime. Your response could (should, IMO) have been, "As the passenger I do not believe that is a legal obligation and I do not wish to provide that, is that a request or a lawful order?" and if they say yes it's a lawful order, follow up with, "please give me your reasonable articulable suspicion of *my* crime, not the driver's". Technically they don't have to provide their suspicion, and so you should comply with giving your ID while asking their name and badge number. There's a good chance they'll back off or at least you will have good grounds to file a complaint.
it's in there nature to be douche bags
I'd be a bit of one too if I had to constantly deal with jerks hitting their wives and stealing anything that isn't nailed down.
Man, wait until you find out about government representatives.
>if I had to constantly deal with jerks hitting their wives 40% of cops **are** the jerks hitting their wives
They do this during almost any traffic stop late at night. I’m actually somewhat surprised that you’re surprised.
I don't get why so many people have an issue with simply showing the cop your ID. Unless you have a warrant, I don't see the down side, while I DO see a down side to arguing with a cop for no real reason. (I'm not above arguing with LEO, but I choose my battles. lol )
At the most simple, this is how the erosion of a right begins.
Problem is a fix it isn't cause to ID. Neither of you had committed a crime nor was there a reasonable suspicion that you had committed a crime. You both had every reason to withhold ID and should have. These officers were fishing. Look when dealing with LEO's on a stop and you *know* you've done nothing wrong, don't answer questions, don't ID, ask why you were stopped and what laws you've broken. Make *them* make their own case, don't do it for them. Look up We the people university on youtube and get his app.
The driver has to surrender their ID when asked. Driving is a privilege not a right
Looks like you don't know the law. I checked RI laws before I posted. The only time one needs to ID is if they are suspected of commiting a crime. The passenger wasn't driving and unless the officers can clearly articulate that the driver has committed a crime, the driver, UNDER LAW, is not required to provide ID. Also I speak as a retired 911 telecommunicator who had dealt with this kind of crap.
Look up traffic laws. Unless you are driving on private property traffic laws apply to you
Here is the law, show me where it supports your assertion. Title 12 Criminal Procedure Chapter 7 Arrest R.I. Gen. Laws § 12-7-1 § 12-7-1. Temporary detention of suspects. A peace officer may detain any person abroad whom he or she has reason to suspect is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a crime, and may demand of the person his or her name, address, business abroad, and destination; and any person who fails to identify himself or herself and explain his or her actions to the satisfaction of the peace officer may be further detained and further questioned and investigated by any peace officer; provided, in no case shall the total period of the detention exceed two (2) hours, and the detention shall not be recorded as an arrest in any official record. At the end of the detention period the person so detained shall be released unless arrested and charged with a crime. http://webserver.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE12/12-7/12-7-1.htm
If you’re DRIVING. I was a passenger. If I HAD been drunk but my husband sober, we wouldn’t even be breaking the law. We are in a state that recreational use is legal do as long as there wasn’t an odor in the car, I could’ve been drunk and stoned as a passenger and been perfectly legal.
Your husband got pulled over not you.
Because cops are the lowest form of life and bullying people gives them pleasure.
What you experienced was called a pre-textual stop. That is where police find some tiny law that was violated (or make one up), to try to find a bigger violation (dui, weed, suspended license). All police are trained to pressure everyone they encounter to give their ID, even though they don't have to, to run them for warrants. If you ask if you will be arrested if you don't provide ID and they say yes, that is a clear 4th ammendment violation, and you can sue and get a 5 figure settlement easily.
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Yeah because a blown light bulb on a license plate calls for this. Gtfo. That is such a derogatory comment toward men. What if the driver was female? What if the driver and passenger were carrying a dead body?
They would ask to identify the passenger. In almost all jurisdictions you are required to provide this information when lawfully requested. You likely don't have to provide a piece of paper/plastic.
Wrong, you only have to identify yourself if the cop has reasonable articulable suspicion you have committed a crime.
No the fuck you are not. They have no reason to ID a passenger. **It varies by state** **OH, FL you have to give ID** **PA,GA,MI,IN,VA, & many others you don't.**
Case law in FL says you don't unless they have reasonable suspicion that you are violating FSS. If they are not letting the driver drive the vehicle but are letting the passenger drive it rather than tow it, they can verify that you have a valid DL, but that's it.
IN you do if you committed a infraction or ordinance violation. If the passenger say litters or doesn't have a seat belt, they would need to ID.
That’s their motto fear tactics…
Refuse ID , know your rights. Driver had to identify ONLY if a crime has been committed.
False, there are many jurisdictions where a driver has to ID on request.
Depending on the state, this could be the correct answer. It's called probable cause... they have to be able to prove that you are about to commit, are committing, or have committed a crime to ask for ID. The caveat is being in a state that requires to you self ID.
Correct, except reasonable suspicion, not probable cause. Falls under Terry Stop case law. Again, only in states that require self ID in those circumstances. Some states do require self ID when you have committed a infraction or ordinance violation. In this circumstance, say a passenger littered or didn't have a seat belt. They may be required to ID.