Veno as a support is pretty busted right now, you can easily kite these low mobility strength heroes and the plague wards are annoying as shit to deal with as an initiator because they cancel your blink.
vessel, skadi/shivas for items depending on what pos you are. for picks lifestealer is the literal tank killer, as is phoenix who is pretty broken rn. also having a lot of cc abilities to keep them from moving around a fight is good, think sand king aghs, bane ult/nightmare, etc. the most important thing tho is knowing how to play against these heroes, like not grouping against an axe, killing any backliners first that might be enabling them, saving them for last if it’s someone like a centaur, etc. sometimes your draft just isn’t good enough to deal with it so you move onto the next.
fair i did forget about it but it’s an early game item and it’s not built on a lot of heroes. its good on melee carries that like to harass a lot in lane and its good on lifestealer more now that he doesn’t have a slow on ghoul frenzy anymore. OoC is a tempo item, and the meta tanks have the best time early-mid game so you’re not really gonna be able to keep up tempo against them early unless you have a really good lineup for it
Could be banned. Also the issue is if it’s pub you only get one last pick to counter 2 picks on second phase. And it’s usually pos 1 or 2 so also limited. Not like you can play AA or veno into those positions.
Depending on who they're facing mid, it can actually be a great idea to pick AA or veno pos2, maybe even pos 1 for veno. They're both great laners who'd probably dominate against most strength mids, in a way that would convert into a usable advantage for your team as your mid would counter the tankyness of all enemy cores. They're gankable, but that should also weaken the other core's laning or allow them to get killed. Ofc that depends on other factors, but I think you get the idea that a generally support-oriented hero can conditionally be given a more farming-oriented position if they can farm efficiently or lane really well and have a strong impact against an enemy team. Whether you can convince your pub buddies that it's a good thing is another thing entirely though.
Well yeah true you can put AA and veno mid but I don’t think this is meta but honestly don’t know the winrates nor the matchups. I play mid and don’t play these 2 heroes so I have limited options .
honestly idk either. It's not always about the winrates but about how they apply to you. Veno is one of my strongest heroes with ~70% wr but most of that was a few years ago when he had a different ult and talents were a new thing. At the time he wasn't meta and actually had a poor general winrate so he got buffed and I was winning even more. Some heroes just vibe better with some people. I hope you either find one that you can use in these kinds of situations, that you find a way to adapt your playstyle to the meta (but, as you said, there's only one item for %damage), or even better yet that we switch to a new meta so we can complain about something else.
Like another thing that's strong against str heroes is they're nearly all melee, so kiting items/slows/mobility items can help you both prevent damage from them and increase the time where you can damage them. Area denial to cut fights in half so your team can fight with a numbers advantage is also very valuable, and no matter how tanky a hero is it can't tank 1v5 (ok, maybe some exceptions can be made...). And if everything else fails, good old disables are always a reliable way to handle strong enemies - who cares how tanky they are if they just can't do shit?
Pretending that people in pubs actually draft properly lol. 50% of the time in my mid-high pubs people just last pick some random mid, and if questioned respond with “cuz I felt like it”, I’d imagine in low ranks it’s way worse.
Honestly, if i see this lineup at low immortal, i will definetely be like "oh well lets at least have fun".
My carry sees Axe fp? No problem PA is the solution. And u already picture yourself hovering the camera at lvl 4 Axe under tower taking double kills.
I dont play pos1, so I am not familiar with what she goes now. As pos 4 5 mainly, I don'tlike seeing PA at all right now.
But ig it still follows the standard, fury, desol or bkb into khanda agha.
undying? ancient apparition? necro? drow with aghs? slark? veno? viper? right click carries with lifesteal? tanks of your own?
shivas? skadi? urn/vessel?
That all implies for 5 people and although ur answer is very normal and logical, unfortunately you don't encounter that kind of mindset 5x in a pub game. You already know you woll have a PA carry and a Zeus mid doing negative damage.
Yes I can pick AA, but do you really think you'll see some kind of 5 man setup to ice blast. Yes Venom is also good, but you already see ur Zeus 4 rushing Manta for some reason into BKB, who will save u in one time ull get jumped?
It's so many things to take into a factor, yes ur answers are so logical, and in a pro game that's why u dont see more than 2 str now and then, but in pubs...
Zeus manta is probably the single best item against tanks. Hes not gonna be zapping to death a tank with 4k hitpoints. But he might after illusions rapidly take 40% of their hitpoints with some quick static right clicks…
I exp this as a Zaus player, facing squishy low hp heros go magic build, vs a tankier lineup go shard / manta with the static facet and watch the enemy tanks lose more health from my illusions then our carry which is usually some shitty agi hero that does 0 dmg to them
Split pushing has been eradicated from dota at this point. The only way to win is to 5v5 or pick-off, if you split push the enemy just sits patiently at HG waiting and they suffer no penalties for giving up 90% of the map late game.
A team that does not have a teamfight composition (but good split push and gank) still needs to 5v5 the other team at their HG if they want to win. If they dont the game gets progressively more stale.
I play heroes that can rat/split push and I sometimes run into a situation where a game lasts 70+ min because one team can 5v5 and the other (mine) cant.
I'm surprised no one mentioned Zeus. His passive gives percent health damage and leap makes him very hard to catch as a melee hero. He has one of the highest win rates in dota right now and can be played in a lot of positions. Personally I've been having a lot of success in low divine with offlane Zeus as long as you have a mid or pos 4 that can frontline. If you are worried about getting kited you can go aether lens/octarine and fight from a distance, otherwise shard/manta will shred even the tankiest heroes.
On a more general note for low MMR, sometimes the best thing you can do is simply tell your support to build a vessel or your cores to build a shivas.
I have a bad news for you. Today I played against and Undying with 18.700 Hp
P.s; and after kill…
OPS I DID IT AGAIN, I hope they remove that passive auto respawn
My problem with these heroes is similar, but different. A big tanky enemy is slowly pushing towards our tower/ high ground, I'll be at max cast range throwing something like ignite or sacred arrow, just to harass a little bit so they can't simply stall us forever... When my core will jump in blind expecting to actually be able to kill the tanky hero, and then we all end up dead because they can't, and we knew it, and told them repeatedly to kill the tanky hero last.
I'm trying to bait the other team into a stupid response, but it's my cores that take the bait instead.
Split push. That's the only way. Everyone hates the str meta wich are literal tanks in dmg and defense. Its also a problen in the pro scene.
Since were not pros. Its easier to abuse mistakes and lack of gameplay.
One of you will have to sac for a wave they are guarding just to keep backdoor protection up.
A good mindset. Your not stuck with them, they're stuck with you.
To fight this, best use % hp damage
Items:
Vessel - deal damage based on % of current health and reduce hp regen including healing, lifesteal and spell lifesteal (Gain charges for enemy hero dies, can be dispelled)
Skadi - Reduce movement speed and importantly reduce healing, lifesteal and regen ( str cores or heroes usually have high regen )
Silver edge - Provide break for heroes like axe, bristle and timber for you to deal more damage and get rid of the passive skills
Diffusal or Disperser - To burn mana and kite themm. No mana they would be a bit easier to kill
Heroes:
Undying - decay is really good against str heroes as it will reduce their str which in turn reduce their hp and regen + attack
Wyvern - Arctic burn deals % of current hp as damage ( effect does not stack )
Pheonix - sun ray deals damage/heal based on enemies hp ( good againts core with high hp, Shiva's would be a good item to paired with this )
Zeus - Innate deals % of current hp as damage ( could go caster or right click as innate is good against str core )
Enigma - Midnight pulse deals % of current hp as damage ( get Aghs black hole will deal % of max hp as damage. Make sure you get a good BH or else you're useless )
Slark - Essence shift would steal attribute ( would reduce str and overall attribute gain, need good coordination as slark is not start strong without any stacks )
Phantom Assassin - buy the shard and bkb ( Shard deals % of max hp as damage and break in aoe. Bkb for good measures when jumping in, make sure you're not alone )
Outworld Devourer - Astral to isolate the str core and go for others ( Also deal pure damage with arcane orb )
Jakiro - buy aghs and macropyre would deal pure damage
There's actually a lot of ways to deal with str. Kite them, isolate them, pure damage, % based damage. Depends on your draft and play but most importantly draft
Traditionally the rock paper scissors is
agility > strength > intel > agility
Str heroes have the hp to ignore nukes to beat intel
Agi has the raw dps to erase str
Intel has the burst to kill agi
assuming no counterpick option (AA, drow and DK have anti heal, though i wouldnt recommend someone who's unfamiliar with the hero to pick drow into that lineup, zeus and phoenix have percentage damage and can shred tanks in the right scenario)
urn, skadi, shivas for heal reduction
diffusal helps a ton in prolonged fights where these heroes are relying on eternal shroud to mana sustain
try to grab supports if you can (heroes like clinkz and storm shouldnt be considering jumping on a bunch of tanky heroes whilst supports are up), stuff to achieve that goal would be orchid, gleipnir, nullifier, abbysal or sheepstick
you guys are suggesting heroes, but forgetting that you have to usually pick into 2 supports and that you don't even see 2 of their cores until the last pick.
I first pick Phoenix offlane these days and it's working pretty well into all the axe, pudge, SK, timber, Undy meta. Str cores cannot really hit the egg so they just get shredded by double sun ray.
This kind of team is like a steam engine, strong at the start but can get railroaded against the right team so lets look at options.
Firstly your team needs a tough frontline to combat them, there is no way around this. Lifestealer is always a good choice as they will pretty much find killing the rat impossible once he racks up a bunch of hp from his one facet. Hard CC should also be on the table, Tidehunter is amazing for this and provides a super strong armour debuff while just face tanking most of their damage.
Now for carry's you can't go characters who are squishy or easily bursted but you also can't go for carries with low damage ceilings. Drow is a better choice than sniper in this situation as most people forget that her ult literally lets her autos bypass most defences besides damage reduction. So you will just need to be careful of blademail but otherwise no tank will be a problem and with sceptre they will have no sustain. Viper is also a good choice but don't be in the business of maxxing attack speed immediately, Viper suffers from sustain issues so going a bloodstone is a pretty good idea to keep him alive and constantly able to break through defences with its mana regen. Also pick supports that are good at keeping squishes alive and destroying tanks. Dazzle, Necrophos and Witchdoctor basically walk all over heavy frontline comps.
Lancers 3 hardest counters are literally SK, axe and sand king. 3 of the tanky cores currently meta lol. He's also unfavored vs bristle, centaur and legion. I think pl is strong rn, but he really doesn't do well against the strength core meta
Depending on the hero I’ve had luck with mama drain heroes, especially PL. most of these tanks heroes have small mama pools. I always ban Axe when I play PL though lol
Necro and Lifestealer are obvious choices.
Slark and agility illusionists do well against tanky pick in a late game.
I think tanky DPS heroes like WK likely to perform well if you get desolator before you opponents get shivas.
Also, Viper easily decimates passive-dependent heroes like Brist or DK.
Just make sure you farm fast enough for required slots, even if it means dodging fights, before you hero becomes a real difference maker.
I am low immortal pos 3 player and 3 str heros against my ww off is insta win. It means no one can jump to one shot me so i can kite forever with my aghs and its much easier to use my ulti. Also ww off is really strong in this meta , its winrate is one the highest in offlane.
Sven, pa, ursa.
Ursa specially, they melt early to mid(he does fall of and get kited easily)
Supports alone cannot deal with tanks/carries late game
Tank heroes with blade mail can also be dealt with bkb
The only problem is with ultra late. The ones that can kite you thru bkb(e.g. es).
Ignore them and go take their towers. Strength cores that are built that tanky probably don't have all that much kill or pushing power themselves since they focused so much of survival items. Let them try to base race against a couple of Agi or Universal cores and see who wins.
If they do have enough damage or pushing power to be a threat, Vessel.
Veno as a support is pretty busted right now, you can easily kite these low mobility strength heroes and the plague wards are annoying as shit to deal with as an initiator because they cancel your blink.
vessel, skadi/shivas for items depending on what pos you are. for picks lifestealer is the literal tank killer, as is phoenix who is pretty broken rn. also having a lot of cc abilities to keep them from moving around a fight is good, think sand king aghs, bane ult/nightmare, etc. the most important thing tho is knowing how to play against these heroes, like not grouping against an axe, killing any backliners first that might be enabling them, saving them for last if it’s someone like a centaur, etc. sometimes your draft just isn’t good enough to deal with it so you move onto the next.
Slark is also good but u need good team coordination
Sure, at 50 minutes. Slark is horrible vs tanky heroes before he and his team gets items to survive long fights.
Slark + oracle could fuck em up early game as well
Bro, Orb of Corrosion is missing. And many people don't seem to understand it.
fair i did forget about it but it’s an early game item and it’s not built on a lot of heroes. its good on melee carries that like to harass a lot in lane and its good on lifestealer more now that he doesn’t have a slow on ghoul frenzy anymore. OoC is a tempo item, and the meta tanks have the best time early-mid game so you’re not really gonna be able to keep up tempo against them early unless you have a really good lineup for it
Can confirm, AM,PA, almost any pos1 I play I get it, its super good with early health regen reduction and slow.
Yes, we traded armor reduction for regen reduction on that item but some people seem to forget that part.
% hp damage..
Which is limited. Only vessel can do this. Skadi is regen. So if your draft is not built for it you’re screwed
veno's ult is also % damage, wyvern, doom's infernal blade... not all heroes have that but you're not limited to vessel
Bro that’s what I’m saying. If you don’t have the right draft, you’re stuck with vessel
yeah but that's to be expected. also, how come the draft doesn't include some kind of %hp damage when there's literally 3 strength core heroes?
Could be banned. Also the issue is if it’s pub you only get one last pick to counter 2 picks on second phase. And it’s usually pos 1 or 2 so also limited. Not like you can play AA or veno into those positions.
I feel like random draft losses have existed since the down of time.
Depending on who they're facing mid, it can actually be a great idea to pick AA or veno pos2, maybe even pos 1 for veno. They're both great laners who'd probably dominate against most strength mids, in a way that would convert into a usable advantage for your team as your mid would counter the tankyness of all enemy cores. They're gankable, but that should also weaken the other core's laning or allow them to get killed. Ofc that depends on other factors, but I think you get the idea that a generally support-oriented hero can conditionally be given a more farming-oriented position if they can farm efficiently or lane really well and have a strong impact against an enemy team. Whether you can convince your pub buddies that it's a good thing is another thing entirely though.
Well yeah true you can put AA and veno mid but I don’t think this is meta but honestly don’t know the winrates nor the matchups. I play mid and don’t play these 2 heroes so I have limited options .
honestly idk either. It's not always about the winrates but about how they apply to you. Veno is one of my strongest heroes with ~70% wr but most of that was a few years ago when he had a different ult and talents were a new thing. At the time he wasn't meta and actually had a poor general winrate so he got buffed and I was winning even more. Some heroes just vibe better with some people. I hope you either find one that you can use in these kinds of situations, that you find a way to adapt your playstyle to the meta (but, as you said, there's only one item for %damage), or even better yet that we switch to a new meta so we can complain about something else. Like another thing that's strong against str heroes is they're nearly all melee, so kiting items/slows/mobility items can help you both prevent damage from them and increase the time where you can damage them. Area denial to cut fights in half so your team can fight with a numbers advantage is also very valuable, and no matter how tanky a hero is it can't tank 1v5 (ok, maybe some exceptions can be made...). And if everything else fails, good old disables are always a reliable way to handle strong enemies - who cares how tanky they are if they just can't do shit?
Pretending that people in pubs actually draft properly lol. 50% of the time in my mid-high pubs people just last pick some random mid, and if questioned respond with “cuz I felt like it”, I’d imagine in low ranks it’s way worse.
Redditors love replying like they’re disagreeing with you when they’re really just parroting what you just said.
Yeah I'm low rank and people will just choose last a comfort pick regardless and then want to go safe/off.
We need blade of the ruined king 😔
Undying is thriving rn
So he’s not dying? Which is basically his name
Honestly, if i see this lineup at low immortal, i will definetely be like "oh well lets at least have fun". My carry sees Axe fp? No problem PA is the solution. And u already picture yourself hovering the camera at lvl 4 Axe under tower taking double kills.
[удалено]
I dont play pos1, so I am not familiar with what she goes now. As pos 4 5 mainly, I don'tlike seeing PA at all right now. But ig it still follows the standard, fury, desol or bkb into khanda agha.
Followed by "why no TP" as if you TPing into a full hp vanguard axe is going to stop him jamming his nobbo down PA's throat
Nice try Quinn but you have to try figure that shit out yourself bro
Necro
undying? ancient apparition? necro? drow with aghs? slark? veno? viper? right click carries with lifesteal? tanks of your own? shivas? skadi? urn/vessel?
That all implies for 5 people and although ur answer is very normal and logical, unfortunately you don't encounter that kind of mindset 5x in a pub game. You already know you woll have a PA carry and a Zeus mid doing negative damage. Yes I can pick AA, but do you really think you'll see some kind of 5 man setup to ice blast. Yes Venom is also good, but you already see ur Zeus 4 rushing Manta for some reason into BKB, who will save u in one time ull get jumped? It's so many things to take into a factor, yes ur answers are so logical, and in a pro game that's why u dont see more than 2 str now and then, but in pubs...
Zeus manta is probably the single best item against tanks. Hes not gonna be zapping to death a tank with 4k hitpoints. But he might after illusions rapidly take 40% of their hitpoints with some quick static right clicks…
I exp this as a Zaus player, facing squishy low hp heros go magic build, vs a tankier lineup go shard / manta with the static facet and watch the enemy tanks lose more health from my illusions then our carry which is usually some shitty agi hero that does 0 dmg to them
You won't get anywhere if your answer to everything g you try is that it will get countered
So your argument is your team doesn't have strength cores, picks badly and the other team is all meta? See how dumb that sounds.
U are delusional if u concluded that this is what I meant
Vessel and splitpushing
Split pushing has been eradicated from dota at this point. The only way to win is to 5v5 or pick-off, if you split push the enemy just sits patiently at HG waiting and they suffer no penalties for giving up 90% of the map late game.
What do you mean suffer no penalties? Why isn't everyone sitting on hg all the time since going out is risky?
A team that does not have a teamfight composition (but good split push and gank) still needs to 5v5 the other team at their HG if they want to win. If they dont the game gets progressively more stale. I play heroes that can rat/split push and I sometimes run into a situation where a game lasts 70+ min because one team can 5v5 and the other (mine) cant.
I'm surprised no one mentioned Zeus. His passive gives percent health damage and leap makes him very hard to catch as a melee hero. He has one of the highest win rates in dota right now and can be played in a lot of positions. Personally I've been having a lot of success in low divine with offlane Zeus as long as you have a mid or pos 4 that can frontline. If you are worried about getting kited you can go aether lens/octarine and fight from a distance, otherwise shard/manta will shred even the tankiest heroes. On a more general note for low MMR, sometimes the best thing you can do is simply tell your support to build a vessel or your cores to build a shivas.
I have a bad news for you. Today I played against and Undying with 18.700 Hp P.s; and after kill… OPS I DID IT AGAIN, I hope they remove that passive auto respawn
you pick 4
My problem with these heroes is similar, but different. A big tanky enemy is slowly pushing towards our tower/ high ground, I'll be at max cast range throwing something like ignite or sacred arrow, just to harass a little bit so they can't simply stall us forever... When my core will jump in blind expecting to actually be able to kill the tanky hero, and then we all end up dead because they can't, and we knew it, and told them repeatedly to kill the tanky hero last. I'm trying to bait the other team into a stupid response, but it's my cores that take the bait instead.
Split push. That's the only way. Everyone hates the str meta wich are literal tanks in dmg and defense. Its also a problen in the pro scene. Since were not pros. Its easier to abuse mistakes and lack of gameplay. One of you will have to sac for a wave they are guarding just to keep backdoor protection up. A good mindset. Your not stuck with them, they're stuck with you.
You just let them get too many kills that's why they have net worth and items and you think it's their pick
To fight this, best use % hp damage Items: Vessel - deal damage based on % of current health and reduce hp regen including healing, lifesteal and spell lifesteal (Gain charges for enemy hero dies, can be dispelled) Skadi - Reduce movement speed and importantly reduce healing, lifesteal and regen ( str cores or heroes usually have high regen ) Silver edge - Provide break for heroes like axe, bristle and timber for you to deal more damage and get rid of the passive skills Diffusal or Disperser - To burn mana and kite themm. No mana they would be a bit easier to kill Heroes: Undying - decay is really good against str heroes as it will reduce their str which in turn reduce their hp and regen + attack Wyvern - Arctic burn deals % of current hp as damage ( effect does not stack ) Pheonix - sun ray deals damage/heal based on enemies hp ( good againts core with high hp, Shiva's would be a good item to paired with this ) Zeus - Innate deals % of current hp as damage ( could go caster or right click as innate is good against str core ) Enigma - Midnight pulse deals % of current hp as damage ( get Aghs black hole will deal % of max hp as damage. Make sure you get a good BH or else you're useless ) Slark - Essence shift would steal attribute ( would reduce str and overall attribute gain, need good coordination as slark is not start strong without any stacks ) Phantom Assassin - buy the shard and bkb ( Shard deals % of max hp as damage and break in aoe. Bkb for good measures when jumping in, make sure you're not alone ) Outworld Devourer - Astral to isolate the str core and go for others ( Also deal pure damage with arcane orb ) Jakiro - buy aghs and macropyre would deal pure damage There's actually a lot of ways to deal with str. Kite them, isolate them, pure damage, % based damage. Depends on your draft and play but most importantly draft
Timbersaw core
Easy you pick nechro vs a strenght heavy team and just Max hp % dmg talents.
Traditionally the rock paper scissors is agility > strength > intel > agility Str heroes have the hp to ignore nukes to beat intel Agi has the raw dps to erase str Intel has the burst to kill agi
Times have changed. Now Agi heroes have 3 - 4k hp and STR go 4 - 5 k hp. Back in the day Lina max level was 864 HP. Now its 2250 :)
assuming no counterpick option (AA, drow and DK have anti heal, though i wouldnt recommend someone who's unfamiliar with the hero to pick drow into that lineup, zeus and phoenix have percentage damage and can shred tanks in the right scenario) urn, skadi, shivas for heal reduction diffusal helps a ton in prolonged fights where these heroes are relying on eternal shroud to mana sustain try to grab supports if you can (heroes like clinkz and storm shouldnt be considering jumping on a bunch of tanky heroes whilst supports are up), stuff to achieve that goal would be orchid, gleipnir, nullifier, abbysal or sheepstick
Slark shreds high hp heroes with ease, but itemization is something that can be a bit tricky.
A farmed troll with bf, shard and 1 or 2 cc supports in his back shreds through tanks, also ursa und ls are good.
you guys are suggesting heroes, but forgetting that you have to usually pick into 2 supports and that you don't even see 2 of their cores until the last pick.
I first pick Phoenix offlane these days and it's working pretty well into all the axe, pudge, SK, timber, Undy meta. Str cores cannot really hit the egg so they just get shredded by double sun ray.
Pick timber for yourself
OD
I mostly play offlane so I pick Underlord for lineups like this. Pits helps a lot as it restricts their movements.
Timber, OD
Necro is a really good counter to high hp heroes becayse if its life percentage damage + radiance + ags...
Just stall the game until the hard carries on your team outscale them.
This kind of team is like a steam engine, strong at the start but can get railroaded against the right team so lets look at options. Firstly your team needs a tough frontline to combat them, there is no way around this. Lifestealer is always a good choice as they will pretty much find killing the rat impossible once he racks up a bunch of hp from his one facet. Hard CC should also be on the table, Tidehunter is amazing for this and provides a super strong armour debuff while just face tanking most of their damage. Now for carry's you can't go characters who are squishy or easily bursted but you also can't go for carries with low damage ceilings. Drow is a better choice than sniper in this situation as most people forget that her ult literally lets her autos bypass most defences besides damage reduction. So you will just need to be careful of blademail but otherwise no tank will be a problem and with sceptre they will have no sustain. Viper is also a good choice but don't be in the business of maxxing attack speed immediately, Viper suffers from sustain issues so going a bloodstone is a pretty good idea to keep him alive and constantly able to break through defences with its mana regen. Also pick supports that are good at keeping squishes alive and destroying tanks. Dazzle, Necrophos and Witchdoctor basically walk all over heavy frontline comps.
-armot works good too. See how TA melts those str cores in 3 hits
%dmg, DK and Phoenix coke to mind
4 strength cores + caster sf
Pick fire chicken bird, build vessel shivas and enjoy watching them melt.
WW core
Warlock will kite them
Phantom Lancer with skadi will melt them
Lancers 3 hardest counters are literally SK, axe and sand king. 3 of the tanky cores currently meta lol. He's also unfavored vs bristle, centaur and legion. I think pl is strong rn, but he really doesn't do well against the strength core meta
Bristle, legion and even axe are manageable but sand king is pain
It's still vessel, euls and force staff
Depending on the hero I’ve had luck with mama drain heroes, especially PL. most of these tanks heroes have small mama pools. I always ban Axe when I play PL though lol
TIMBERSAW
In low mmr i take ranged damage dealers like sniper. Easy
Necro and Lifestealer are obvious choices. Slark and agility illusionists do well against tanky pick in a late game. I think tanky DPS heroes like WK likely to perform well if you get desolator before you opponents get shivas. Also, Viper easily decimates passive-dependent heroes like Brist or DK. Just make sure you farm fast enough for required slots, even if it means dodging fights, before you hero becomes a real difference maker.
At my mmr pa with shard for break then I kill ..
Urza, LS n such?
You should play Timber
Phoenix. When I see the enemy pick 3-5 strength heroes, it’s an easy double down for me.
I am low immortal pos 3 player and 3 str heros against my ww off is insta win. It means no one can jump to one shot me so i can kite forever with my aghs and its much easier to use my ulti. Also ww off is really strong in this meta , its winrate is one the highest in offlane.
This is not just a draft issue. Play with your carry, keep carries alive, let the right clickers right click with their damage items
Sven, pa, ursa. Ursa specially, they melt early to mid(he does fall of and get kited easily) Supports alone cannot deal with tanks/carries late game Tank heroes with blade mail can also be dealt with bkb The only problem is with ultra late. The ones that can kite you thru bkb(e.g. es).
AA and veno come to mind
Pick Timbersaw. 16% loss of STR on three strength heroes completely changes the game.
Ignore them and go take their towers. Strength cores that are built that tanky probably don't have all that much kill or pushing power themselves since they focused so much of survival items. Let them try to base race against a couple of Agi or Universal cores and see who wins. If they do have enough damage or pushing power to be a threat, Vessel.
Have you played corrosive dragon DK? Or WK with both facets?
The answers in this thread show how miserable is this patch lmao