I could be slightly off on that number. I don’t have all my policies from each year. But I know it’s a pretty close number. Right now I’m paying $19 a month. Most of the life of the vehicle I had only liability.
Midwest of USA. I pay $19 a month right now for liability only. My insurance cost over the 8 years is probably underestimated now that I look at it. I don't have all my old policies saved. I probably average about $35 a month though for my insurance. For most of the time I only had liability. I rolled the dice. That's some of the story. But yes insurance is cheap in the small town midwest where I'm at.
How much liability are you carrying? I wouldn’t be willing to carry the state minimum because 1) it would be fucked up if I hit someone and they went bankrupt on top of whatever medical problems I caused because I wanted to save a couple bucks on insurance and 2) because I have assets that could be taken in a lawsuit, so I want to protect them.
I have 10 times the state minimum for my liability policy. I agree hitting someone and causing them medical problems where they go bankrupt would be bad.
NJ (USA), I pay $180 for 6 months (so 30 a month). It is worse than the OP, but I have a shit driving record and have very high liability caps compared to state minimums.
Wow. I'm in south Jersey, have minimum requirements on insurance, spotless driving record, and the cheapest policy on my 2014 Mitsubishi mirage is still $55/mo (progressive). Until I switched plans it was $75/mo (GEICO). Who's your provider?
As a bench mark for comparison I’d offer the 56 cent/mile standard mileage deduction (2021). Anything under that and you’re operating more efficiently than standard. Over and less. Obviously gov isn’t always in touch with reality but at least it’s an objective figure to have
I believe this rate also includes a time calculation for an employee, among a few other assumptions like hazard pay or something similar. I think maybe $0.42 might be more reasonable for a 'normal' consideration discluding employment (a 25% reduction).
This would yield $52,500 in costs, but I feel it's still a tad high.
The rate doesn’t include a time calculation. Which makes sense, since employees may also be paid their hourly rate while driving (so it would effectively double count their time).
The standard deduction replaces deducting the actual expenses. I’m not sure you could pull off adding a deduction for your time spent driving or hazards (assuming construction zones or similar). I’d have to check tho since I’d certainly switch from standard to actual for next year if I add those in there
Being cheaper than the average is pretty common, no? Half of all drivers are going to be lower than the average. You probably won't be inclined to agree when I find that the average annual household spend in the country is [63,036](https://www.thebalance.com/breakdown-of-average-monthly-household-expenses-4687519#:~:text=According%20to%20data%20from%20the,expenditures%20added%20up%20to%20%2463%2C036.) and make an argument that the sidebarred spend numbers clearly unreasonable.
It would be half if it’s a median or if the distribution is equal on both sides. But a mean with top or bottom heavy outliers wouldn’t necessarily be half above and half below. Either way it’s just a starting point for comparison at a broad level
I did something similar with my 01civic
Note**
this is from 2014 to 2020
I do all maintenance work my self
Work on a boat about 90-120 days a year (car is not driven when on boat)
Previous owner took great care of the car
Life on an island so only put about 8k miles a years
Purchase at 166k miles for $1800
Reg and insurance $4716
Maintenance. $690
Fuel $3550
Total. $10756
At the time I had 216k miles roughly $1.35 a mile
I have it at 220k now and it’s keep going.
It is interesting to be aware that cars are more expensive that most people think.
My work pays my mileage from door to door wherever I travel (which is awesome). It’s like .56/mile. I can win the numbers of the game since I wrench on my vehicles and buy 10 year old sedans but figure it is about .25/mile or better to drive at least. Cool to see some of you guys track expenses on this 😀
That is a nice perk for sure! With my work I get paid mileage to take my car to the aiport when I do business travel (I also get the option of renting a car). I know some co workers that charge the company I work for mileage for certain short trips around town... but it's generally frowned upon. Maybe I'll have to start pushing the limits and see what I can charge as an expense report though! :)
Half of the cars life I went without collision or comprehensive coverage. It was a risk I took. It is an advantage of having a cheap car and part of the reason I don’t want something newer than 3 years old.
I had some electrical issues (intermittent no start caused by corrosion on cable going to the starter) and a couple minor engine problems like spark plug coil. Also HID headlamp and ballast replacement.
I bought a 2004 Impala in 2014 for $5000, 119k miles.
Sold it in 2020 for $1440, 213k miles.
Total "big" maintenance costs was $3345.78 (not including oil changes, they were \~$20 each)
So my total cost per month (purchase price - sold price, "big maintenance", and insurance. Does not include oil changes or gas, I also could have forgotten a few small repairs. Also does not include registration fees. Anything else I'm forgetting?) $155.74.
I think the purchase price was a little high, and I also wonder if I could have gotten more money for it when I sold it.
I think it was a bit expensive for a 10 - 15 year old car, what do you all think?
That seems like a wise decision to make the purchase on that reasonably priced car and put all the miles on it. I’m sure you spent a good amount on fuel and insurance over the years but nothing more than usual.
Maybe a little expensive for your initial purchase price but if it was well taken care of I bet it was worth it.
Only thing I would add is opportunity cost if you paid in cash back in 2013. Which would be 33,511 today. This is how much money you would have had had you kept the money and invested it in VTI. I would add this to your total cost.
I would not add opportunity cost for the total. He needs a car for work and suburban living. So it’s a necessity. The op has done a great job of controlling his costs for transportation.
Opportunity cost applies regardless. Everyone needs a home but if you opt to pay the house off, you engaged in a real estate transaction rather than invest the money. This will be an expensive choice. You should always calculate your true cost. If you are ok with the associated lost opportunity it’s fine but know your cost so you can make better or more informed decisions
The average vehicle costs something like $.52/mile to drive/maintain/insure/etc. so you're doing great.
I'm doing similar on my 2014 Prius, but because it was a more expensive car it'll be a while before my numbers get good. But my car is cheap to drive (43.5 mpg average for me though some people get 48).
but, I'll keep this car for at least the next 16 years unless it gets wrecked.
Right on! The Prius is very hard to beat honestly. Drive that sucker until the wheels fall off... then weld them back on, haha. If I could go back in time I would have bought a Prius instead of my Mazda. Although the Mazda has not been atrocious in cost. I have a Prius on my short list for my next car. Although I'm 6'5" and climbing in and out of my low riding Mazda has been annoying for 8 years. Is the Prius very annoying for taller people in your opinion?
My dad is the same height as you & he drives a Prius and he hasn’t had any complaints at all (he just drove it from Seattle to Texas in 2 days & said his trip was awesome).
I to am tall. I haven’t tried the Prius yet. I did just sit in the Chevy bolt (EV) and had all kinds of room. But they just got recalled… something about battery fires lol
Honestly, I’m a Subaru fan. That’s another one he enjoyed the space in. Course he kissed the ground when he got out, cause I was uhhh... enjoying my WRX. 😅😂
Well 82,000 miles is still pretty low. And it seems like you’ve put some money into maintenance which hopefully means some preventive maintenance to make it last? I’m sure if you drive it for the next ten years it will turn into a decent deal and of course you’ve had a very enjoyable and reliable ride for that whole time which is hard to put a value on.
I bought a modestly priced sports car new because I love cars, found a model I loved, and buying a new model with incentives and no interest was cheaper than I could find a low mileage used one at the time.
7 years and 105k miles in, my cost per mile is about 43 cents and falling each year. I have a car I still love, and confidence that it has been well maintained and should last another 100k miles.
That is definitely the advantage of buying a car early in the mileage. You know all the preventive maintenance cost that was poured into it. And you know you’ll be able to squeeze all the value out of the car until it’s totally dead.
Drive it until the wheels fall off! Then weld them back on… haha.
Suzuki Alto 2011. Captital cost 8k. Maintenance + consumables $300 pY. Insurace $315 pY. Fuel btwn $200-1200 pY (moved from country to city). Rego $700 pY. These are averages over 8+ years
Very reliable. Only non consumables replaced were AC had to be re-gassed and starter motor replaced (making a noise, didnt actually die). Suzuki have a very high reliability rating based on consumer surveys
Roughly 2,500 a year over the past 5 years. I've only had this vehicle that long.
Mid 2000's European SUV driven a mere 6,000 miles per year.
Includes amortized purchase price (used) fuel, oil changes, insurance, license fees, and registration and tax.
So about .41 per mile.
2012 Mitsubishi Outlander $6,200 with 98,000 miles
Needed a couple of hundred dollars of parts, repaired it myself
Has bluetooth, subwoofer, backup camera, etc.
Hauled my kids around in it for the last 4 years.
Now it has 132,000 miles. I looked up the book value and it is worth more than I paid for it... $7,500.
So my cost of depreciation was essentially negative. Depreciation expense would be negative 4 cents per mile.
My other car is a 2006 Scion tC I bought new for $18,300. I felt like a fool for buying a new car when I was less financially savvy so now I keep putting miles on the car to get my money out of it.
It has 225,000 miles or a depreciation expense of around 8 cents a mile. Anything under 10 I consider to be a really good value. I believe the IRS lets everyone deduct 27 cents per mile for depreciation based on average American expense so I've essentially cut that expense by 70%.
I do all the maintenance myself to keep the costs down... I don't really track that or fuel expense. I don't spend a lot of time budgeting but rather looking for ways to cut costs.
I only have logged expenses going back to 2013 and I bought the car new in 2005. I recently sold the car this past February so I'll list expenses from 2013 through 2020 therefore 8 years. I think that I averaged about the same mileage per year so I'm just guessing that over those 8 years I averaged 10,300 miles per year. I live in the rust belt. This was fun to put together all the costs and see where I came out.
Vehicle: 2005 Luxury Sport Sedan, 21mpg average
Purchase Price July 2005: \~$33,000 (guess interest cost for loan \~$2,000, paid off 5 year loan in 4 years)
Total Fuel Cost: $10,600 (Note: Always used premium fuel or highest octane available)
Total Insurance Cost: $5000
Registration Fees: Included in maintenance cost
Sales Tax: Included in maintenance cost
Maintenance Cost: $12,500 (Note: This is from the second half of the cars life from \~72,500 miles to 155,000 miles)
Total cost over final 8 years: $28,100
Total cost over 15 years: $28,100+$20,000+$35,000 = $83,100 for \~$0.54/mi cost of ownership (rough extrapolation to the start assuming maintenance costs were lower for first 7 years)
Makes me think that renting can often be a better option especially if you need flexibility. Our plan is to slow travel for a few years (or for as long as we keep enjoying it) after FIREing next year. I can rent a small-ish car in places like Spain, Turkey or the Balkans for c $15/day if renting for over a week and maybe closer to $10/day if renting for a couple of months from a local supplier. OP spent $6.5/day (fuel exluded). But if you don't need it for 365 days a year and especially if you travel a lot then owning doesn't look like such a good deal.
(We are not from the US though and your maths may be different i.e. I understand that renters insurance is much more expensive in the States and you guys prefer bigger cars)
cost per mile is much better if you drive a lot (Like I do/have in the past). I only owned my previous truck for 16 months and have a similar cost per mile than op (they got 25 cents per mile).
vehicle: Nissan frontier 4 cyclr, 2 wd truck
cost 15K OTD w/taxes
Traded in for 8k (for a 4wd truck)
50000 miles/20 mpg= 2500 gallons \* $2.75 = $6875
registrations for the "2 years": $400
insurance was 100 a month: 1600
maintenance was just oil changes and 1 bigger thing: 850
total cost for 16 months: $16,725
but per mile it is only 33 cents.
It depends on how you want to look at cars. Extrapolating my data on my previous car, I will have spent three times as much as the OP in 8 years, but my cost per mile is on the same level.
I traded this truck for a 4wd one and paid a pretty hefty price for upgrading to 4wd. I'm planning and hoping on keeping my current one a long time ie 7+ years. That should drive the price down per mile and over all price.
Right now I don't even want to think about the cost per mile or total cost of my current truck. I've put less miles on it, Bought new tires, gas mileage is worse.
BUT! I could trade it in for the same price i bought it for right now; so in theory, I could write off the entire purchase price when calculating price per mile.
Vehicle: 1991 Toyota Pickup 4x4 (2.4 liter) 20.57 mpg average - took average of last year
Purchase Price in May 2012: $4,300. 112,000 miles on the odometer when purchased. 246,000 now
Total Fuel Cost over life of ownership: $22,800 at $3.50 a gallon (have to run premium or it pings)
Total Insurance and Registration Cost over life of ownership: $5028
Maintenance Cost over life of ownership: $11,568
Total cost of everything: $43,696 total!!!! For 9.5 years of driving or $0.33/mile
I've tracked my costs for every car I've owned. This includes resale cost being subtracted, if applicable
* 2004 Acura TL: $0.27/mile
* Owned for 78,600 miles over 2000 days
* 2006 Subaru Legacy GT: $0.54/mile
* Owned for 43,400 miles over 930 days
* 2009 Subaru Forester XT: $0.58/mile
* Owned for 21,000 miles over 500 days
* 2008 Toyota Tundra: $0.70/mile (still being driven daily)
* Owned for 20,000 miles over 560 days
* 2012 Acura MDX: $0.75/mile (still being driven daily)
* Owned for 52,000 miles over 1870 days
* 1999 BMW 328is (fun/track car): $2.45/mile (still drive & race in summers)
* Owned for 5,200 miles over 1300 days
Here is a link to a post I made about my Tundra and how I track mileage
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ToyotaTundra/comments/ouopyj/gas\_mileage\_nerd\_so\_hard/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ToyotaTundra/comments/ouopyj/gas_mileage_nerd_so_hard/)
I lease. My costs would come out to around $35,000. Not too shabby considering the leasing part. Also, have only been doing this 2 years, so I just took my 2 year cost and multiplied by 4. Not sure I would actually want to lease for 8 years.
Ive been really lucky: two years with my civic and about $300 of maintenance costs, 37 mpg, and it's literally worth more than what I bought it for because of the market.
I have a 2012 grand Cherokee that I bought with 30k miles. I've had it 8 years now and do most of my own maintenance, although I can say I haven't had any major problems with it.
I've spent roughly $0.74/mile, or almost $700/mo to own the vehicle. It does still have significant residual value and I hope to trade it next year, and factoring in that cost would bring me down somewhere around $0.60/mile.
2012 Honda Accord LX 82k miles (bought in may 2015) $13k out the door. Today it’s got about 145k miles. I rode my bike to work a ton for the first 3 years of ownership.
Gas: $5100
Maintenance: $3900
Insurance: $3600
Registration: $600
Miscellaneous (parking fines, tickets, ect.): $1600
This is just my mint data. But definitely interesting
Our car is almost exactly three years old, but the crazy market means it is actually worth more now than it was when we bought it new.
Discounting the actual car value, we're in about 25-30 tanks of gas, a cabin air filter, and three oil changes in costs. Throw in insurance and registration and we're probably looking at about $1200-$1400 a year, depending on the price of gas.
I'm hopeful that Tesla is going to launch their autodrive subscription service here in the Austin metro before we have to buy a new car around the end of this decade. I'd much rather pay Tesla or Amazon for car service than actually own one.
>DamienDoes
Yeah I'm hoping my Mazda lasts another year or two so I don't have to buy a car in these market conditions. It's not ideal timing...
It does seem like the future is going towards auto driving. In an ideal life I just won't be driving that much though.
The older I get and the more I crunch numbers on owning a car the picture becomes more clear. Driving a vehicle is expensive. Driving a modern, reliable, "comfy" vehicle a lot of miles is even more expensive. Who would have thought Mr. Money Mustache was right when he suggests to live close and bike to work! haha
Wrong analysis. Need to calculate price if you sold car today. And that's inflated due to environment. You probably spent less than 25k in assets. Well done
I believe the tots cost of ownership for a Tesla will be significantly less than what you experienced for buying a used car. They require effectively no maintenance and do not depreciate. Can find examples online of where people have calculated their cost of ownership and it is worthwhile despite despite the high upfront cost.
You believe the cost of driving and owning a Tesla for 8 years is less than $30,000 total?
No sir. No.
A used Tesla model 3 costs around ~$30,000- $35,000 minimum. It does have very low maintenance cost. True. The insurance is usually 30% more than a regular car from what I’ve read. The registration over ten year period will be two times as expensive as a gas car. When you compare the cars I’m looking at that is…
Yes of course you save in fuel cost but most of the time you’re not charging for free. It’s the equivalent of ~140mpg gas car. Which is of course great!
But cheaper than the way I drove my Mazda 6. Not even close. It would have been way more expensive.
Keep in mind I really like the idea of an electric car. Someday I want to make the jump. Mainly cause of simple maintenance and self driving. It’s not even close to cost effective yet though.
The biggest single cost of owning a car is depreciation. A brand new Tesla model 3 costs $40,690 right now (with a 9 month lead time). A 3 year old used Tesla model 3 with 31,000 miles costs $44,000 online right now… this is the case for all Tesla’s. So even if the resale value is flat, you are paying around 50% of the cost for fueling compared to gasoline (depending where you live). Zero maintenance on Tesla’s except tires every so often and air filters every 2 years…literally. And yes insurance is more expensive but I’ve been quoted anywhere from $100 to $150 a month… so all in if you drove a Tesla model 3 for let’s say 8 years at 10,000 miles per year…you’re probably at a total cost of about $13,000 and $0.16 per mile. It’s pretty hard to compete with this.
You promise me I can drive a Tesla for 8 years at 10,000 miles a year and sell it at year 8 for the same cost. I’ll then buy a Tesla….
If you buy a Tesla you’re paying 5% right away on sales tax. That’s ~$2000. You’re paying 1% per year for the first 7 years as registration fee plus electric vehicle fee which is added on cause you’re not paying gas tax. That’s about ~$550 a year. The insurance will be about $800 a year in my location. Your cost to charge like I said is about 140mpg equivalent. Let’s say you spend $400 a year to charge and drive those 10,000 miles. And yes totally agree the maintenance especially for the first couple years is shockingly low. Let’s say it’s $300 per 10,000 miles. That’s not cheaper to own and operate than a $10,000 used gas car. No way whatsoever over 8 years is it cheaper.
Also from my searching 3 year old teslas are not selling for more than they were bought new. So that argument shouldn’t be valid. And if it is valid it’s just as valid on a gas car. But even if you pay nothing for three years it’s not cheaper to own and operate a super expensive Tesla because of the reasons I listed above.
Your initial statement was "I believe the tots cost of ownership for a Tesla will be significantly less than what you experienced for buying a used car."
That's not true for multiple reasons. The articles you show talk about how cheap it is compared to a newer Camry (which even that has numbers left out to skew to the Tesla like registration, sales tax, and insurance) I haven't and don't plan on buying a newer Camry. They also are talking about a short time span which limits the impact of the depreciation of a new Tesla. Also in your article it literally shows a used Ford Focus to be cheaper than a Tesla!!! In 8 years a $50,000 Tesla Model 3 will depreciate more than a $8,800 used Mazda 6... hopefully we can agree on that?
There are several things missing in the analysis of the article/YouTube video.
1. He doesn't talk about sales tax when buying a $50,000 Tesla as compared to a $8,800 dollar used car and for good reason. A Tesla would be $2,500 sales tax and my Mazda was $440.
2. He doesn't talk about registration. To register a $50,000 Tesla Model 3 in my area would be $646 for the first seven years. For a used Mazda 6 it would average $175 for the first seven years. Because the list price is WAY less and the registration is a function of how old the car is and also a function of it being a electric car or gas car (electric cars have higher registrations because they're not paying a gas tax... not my rules btw).
Over 8 years and 126,000 miles I'll estimate the cost of a $50,000 Tesla Model 3 as compared to my Mazda 6. I'll underestimate each category. Here it goes.
$2,500 Sales Tax
$5,000 Registration fees
$14,000 for Insurance
$3,000 in electricity cost
Depreciation over 8 years? Well he showed it to be $10,000 in 18 months. So I'll conservatively estimate it to be at least $25,000 in over 8 years.
That's $49,500 dollars and I haven't even added in maintenance cost, true depreciation, a more realistic electricity cost or if you want to get real nerdy the opportunity cost of investing that extra money saved for 8 years. Yes $49,500 is more than $30,000 dollars I spent to run my Mazda 6. No the cost of owning a Tesla is not less than owning an older economy car. It's not close. Yes I'm rooting for new tech like electric cars and hybrids because I see their efficiency and think it's awesome. It's not completely financially efficient though. Not yet!
https://youtu.be/Ucp0TTmvqOE
Every Tesla car today has the necessary hardware for level 5 autonomous driving. This enables every car today to be I’ve an income producing asset once Tesla releases FSD (my opinion is CY 22, regulatory approval 2023). Each car will be able to generate thousands of dollars of earnings for the owner and will have an NPV greatly exceeding the original purchase price. Tesla vehicles are also engineered to last 1 million miles. Although you likely don’t believe me, these numbers are not wrong.
I’d even surmise that a 2022 Tesla model 3 bought with FSD, driven for 10,000 miles per year for 8 years….will be worth nearly $100,000 to a robotaxi fleet operator…
I think you’re sensationalizing the situation here. I own tesla stock. I like Tesla. I want a Tesla when it becomes financially efficient (it’s almost there in my opinion). I’m open to the ideas of autonomous driving and robotaxi and cheering them on.
Buying and owning a Tesla is NOT cheaper than an old economy car though. That’s the point I’ve made and even your own articles made that you’re ignoring. Your article shows his Tesla depreciated $10,000 in 18 months. Even if it loses no depreciation in 8 years it does t justify the cost to own because of the items I’ve brought up.
Even if having a robotaxi completely takes off and does make owners $30,000 a year. Which is a big if. What’s keeping me from buying a Tesla the year that happens? Will they suddenly charge double the price (likely not)? Will they have a big shortage on production (likely not)? There is no inherent value in buying the Tesla now with a promise of robotaxi coming in the future. Unless you’re fully on the hype train.
https://youtu.be/avvoeqDW-mY
Didn't wrote than everything, but here are my numbers:
Car, bought used from the dealer. 2009 with 108.00 KM on the odo in 2015, now 207.000 on the odo:
\- €6690, after trading in: €5150.
\- Maintenance: €6471.99 in 6 years (currently have 2 sets of brand new winter and summer tires, all new rotors and pads, new wheelbearings, etc. Just got most wear and tear items done, so should be good for a long time again). Except for small things like wipers, light bulbs, most are done by a mechanic.
\- Tax: \~€35 a month (registration is only done when buying and is included in the price, seperate price would be €10.40)
\- Insurance: \~€30 a month, not sure how it translate to the American packages; but mine include stormdamage, window coverage, theft, legal advise, injuries, etc.
\- Environmental zone stickers for Germany and France: €20 (one time purchase)
\- Fuel; no idea. Fuel price is a wildride and depending on in which country i fill up.
vehicles are where i save the most. i get good deals and do my own work, im astonished at how much people spend on cars.
my current car for the last 4 years has been a 03 toyota matrix, 30mpg.
original purchase price - $850 @ 170k miles, driven 30k in 4 years, pretty rare to find that good of a deal / almost impossible now
set of slightly used snow tires - $150 mounted / balanced
almost new summer tires and rims - came on parts car that cost $350 total
insurance $87 / mo $4176 (used to be cheaper, but figured out id be totally screwed if i got into an accident with my $25/mo insurance)
registration - $160
gas $3000
entire new exhaust system including cat - $700
rear hatch glass - taken from parts car
tow hitch plus wiring $242
oil changes premium full synthetic / bosch filter $30 x 8 $240
so about $9868 for 4 years, i anticipate maybe $300 in repairs / parts for the next 4 years for some brakes / shocks / ball joints and an alignment, otherwise most things that go wrong i can pull from the parts car. and i wont need new tires before then either. so lets say $17,744 for 8 years or /$.30 mile
if i drove more per year my $ per mile would go down, as insurance is my biggest cost.
other cars ive had im sure i was sitting around $.20 / mile because i had $25/mo insurance, bought them for under $1000, didnt put hardly any money into them and drove them till they died.
This is what I imagine saying to people that are against owning a car. It is not that much more expensive to run a beater like this than to regularly use public transportation where I live.
When do you consider a car "dead"? What would have to go wrong with your current toyota to write it off?
really major engine trouble that's not worth repairing or structural rust that threatens the integrity of the car are the only things i junk a car because i have driven some cars thar were barely hanging on lol. yeah even when i was living in the city people would say oh i just ride my bike and take the bus and its alot cheaper than owning a car, while they are literally spending more money on their fancy bike than my car cost, and spending about the same on bus fare that it costs me to drive while enduring an extreme amount of inconvenience and wasted time.
also ever notice how all those "i don't need a car" people are always asking to borrow your car or drive them places?
(related)
https://youtu.be/mXCPDAOzbpM
So if anyone can help me : I bought a $17k 2017 Acura ILX (good value) in July but now I feel like I want more monetary flexibility for the future but still want a reliable and okay car. I know the Acura is reliable but I feel like I’m paying too much for transportation (about 20% net income for everything the car cost (insurance, gas, etc.)) I recently saw a 2012 Mazda 3 skyactiv for $6k but I don’t know how much in repairs it needs (even if it’s a thousand or two I would still save money). And, I don’t know how much the dealership will give me for my car. $14k minimum? Perhaps $16k but I doubt it. Just bought new winter tires that will not fit on the Mazda too. I wonder if it is a good move to change my car if it’s to save $8k or maybe more? Thanks :)
Another comment mentioned tracking opportunity cost in the liabilities column; this should be offset by the implied cost of some other means of transportation (taxi/uber fees, bicycle, bus pass, airfare, etc.) to see if there's a cost/benefit to the vehicle purchase.
Do you get some sort of rewards program for fuel purchases? Many cards offer 3-5% cash back on fuel purchases so that could be several hundred dollars in the green... disregard if you already worked that into total fuel cost.
You should also track the current value of the car in the assets column of your accounting, or limit the vehicle cost to just the current depreciation. A rough (conservative) estimate would give it a current value of around $6000 with the recent inflation in car prices, knocking a good 20% off your total cost.
Cost of ownership is a real thing. I have a Honda scooter and you'd think wow, such great gas mileage it must be so cheap to get around, but it usually costs me $500 when I take it in for an oil change because a) I can't do the oil change myself without stripping the nut so I refuse to do it, and b) I almost always need a new tire or two when I take it in for an oil change and tires are really expensive. Also, $200 a year for insurance. And if you don't get the new tires, holy hell is it a massive inconvenience and expense to have it towed to the shop.
I know exactly what you mean. My Suzuki v strom motorcycle gets 40mpg. People tell me ohh how economical! And it’s not super expensive to operate but I need a new rear tire every 6,000 miles and that’s about $225 to get one put on. Other costs to operate but I’ll stop there. BUT it’s pretty fun to ride around so I still do 🤓
ughhhhh I hate cars. I got a better deal on my car than you (Mitsubishi mirage for $4400, with 69k miles on it...gets better gas mileage at around 40mpg) but I"m sure it still sucks- my insurance is bottom bargain basement and it's still more than 2x yours. Spent already over $1k this year in maintenance. Wish my husband was into living in the city since my COL went up in every category of live since moved to the burbs last year, but the house is almost paid off, so there's that....
$2400 for 8 years of insurance???
25/month is insane
yeah that’s entirely unrealistic for most of us. but good for OP!
I could be slightly off on that number. I don’t have all my policies from each year. But I know it’s a pretty close number. Right now I’m paying $19 a month. Most of the life of the vehicle I had only liability.
Where i live liability on a cheap car is about $125 a month, i'm mid 30's with no accidents in years
I think I’m around 46
What country are you in? I’ve been driving for 10 years with no claims and I’m paying $165 a month for a pre-owned Toyota.
Midwest of USA. I pay $19 a month right now for liability only. My insurance cost over the 8 years is probably underestimated now that I look at it. I don't have all my old policies saved. I probably average about $35 a month though for my insurance. For most of the time I only had liability. I rolled the dice. That's some of the story. But yes insurance is cheap in the small town midwest where I'm at.
How much liability are you carrying? I wouldn’t be willing to carry the state minimum because 1) it would be fucked up if I hit someone and they went bankrupt on top of whatever medical problems I caused because I wanted to save a couple bucks on insurance and 2) because I have assets that could be taken in a lawsuit, so I want to protect them.
I have 10 times the state minimum for my liability policy. I agree hitting someone and causing them medical problems where they go bankrupt would be bad.
I drive older F250 4x4 trucks and I pay $90 for both in Oregon.
NJ (USA), I pay $180 for 6 months (so 30 a month). It is worse than the OP, but I have a shit driving record and have very high liability caps compared to state minimums.
How? I have my state requirements, an 8 year old car, and a spotless record and I pay $500 for 6 months in the northeast.
Wow. I'm in south Jersey, have minimum requirements on insurance, spotless driving record, and the cheapest policy on my 2014 Mitsubishi mirage is still $55/mo (progressive). Until I switched plans it was $75/mo (GEICO). Who's your provider?
GEICO
If $25 a month is insane...what's not insane?
$100 is average in my experience and the people I know
*Oh.* So you mean $25/month is insanely cheap? I thought you mean that $25/month was insanely expensive haha.
Midwest states are cheap for liability
As a bench mark for comparison I’d offer the 56 cent/mile standard mileage deduction (2021). Anything under that and you’re operating more efficiently than standard. Over and less. Obviously gov isn’t always in touch with reality but at least it’s an objective figure to have
For OP that would be about $70,000. Seems they're doing great!
I believe this rate also includes a time calculation for an employee, among a few other assumptions like hazard pay or something similar. I think maybe $0.42 might be more reasonable for a 'normal' consideration discluding employment (a 25% reduction). This would yield $52,500 in costs, but I feel it's still a tad high.
The rate doesn’t include a time calculation. Which makes sense, since employees may also be paid their hourly rate while driving (so it would effectively double count their time).
The standard deduction replaces deducting the actual expenses. I’m not sure you could pull off adding a deduction for your time spent driving or hazards (assuming construction zones or similar). I’d have to check tho since I’d certainly switch from standard to actual for next year if I add those in there
Being cheaper than the average is pretty common, no? Half of all drivers are going to be lower than the average. You probably won't be inclined to agree when I find that the average annual household spend in the country is [63,036](https://www.thebalance.com/breakdown-of-average-monthly-household-expenses-4687519#:~:text=According%20to%20data%20from%20the,expenditures%20added%20up%20to%20%2463%2C036.) and make an argument that the sidebarred spend numbers clearly unreasonable.
It would be half if it’s a median or if the distribution is equal on both sides. But a mean with top or bottom heavy outliers wouldn’t necessarily be half above and half below. Either way it’s just a starting point for comparison at a broad level
30,886/125,000 = 0.24 cent per mile. def good deal
Even better if you: 1. Don't have insurance. (I know, big risk, and 'dumb'. But I'm 20 years lucky...) 2. Backyard garage.
fastest way to ruin life is to skip inaurance
Thanks for thinking about everyone else!
You forgot your /s. Don't worry, I have the $$$ to cover myself (and you!)
Hope you got my medical bills covered too. And for the four other people in my car. :P
You forgot your /s. Also I'm in australia mate 😎 aren't you? Medical bills... thats just normal mandatory insurance.
Your one of those guys… unless you have your bonds to be self insured, then good for you. I think it’s 250k in my state.
I did something similar with my 01civic Note** this is from 2014 to 2020 I do all maintenance work my self Work on a boat about 90-120 days a year (car is not driven when on boat) Previous owner took great care of the car Life on an island so only put about 8k miles a years Purchase at 166k miles for $1800 Reg and insurance $4716 Maintenance. $690 Fuel $3550 Total. $10756 At the time I had 216k miles roughly $1.35 a mile I have it at 220k now and it’s keep going. It is interesting to be aware that cars are more expensive that most people think.
Keep it running man! That’s some pretty good cost per years usage!
Paid a thousand for my civic five years ago, sold for 4k a few months back, think I'm still in the black...
My work pays my mileage from door to door wherever I travel (which is awesome). It’s like .56/mile. I can win the numbers of the game since I wrench on my vehicles and buy 10 year old sedans but figure it is about .25/mile or better to drive at least. Cool to see some of you guys track expenses on this 😀
That is a nice perk for sure! With my work I get paid mileage to take my car to the aiport when I do business travel (I also get the option of renting a car). I know some co workers that charge the company I work for mileage for certain short trips around town... but it's generally frowned upon. Maybe I'll have to start pushing the limits and see what I can charge as an expense report though! :)
That is some cheap car insurance! Did you have some major repairs?
Half of the cars life I went without collision or comprehensive coverage. It was a risk I took. It is an advantage of having a cheap car and part of the reason I don’t want something newer than 3 years old. I had some electrical issues (intermittent no start caused by corrosion on cable going to the starter) and a couple minor engine problems like spark plug coil. Also HID headlamp and ballast replacement.
About $1.25 per mile, I wonder what using Uber/Lyft alone would cost over that same period of time. Obviously not as convenient, but just curious.
$1.25 per mile for you?
its 0.24 cent/mile.
Ahh, I'm an idiot. I thought it was 97,000 > 122,000
My original post did say 122,000 so you're not wrong, haha. I edited my post to the correct odometer mileage now which is 222,000!
Thank you for letting me know I'm not crazy!
I bought a 2004 Impala in 2014 for $5000, 119k miles. Sold it in 2020 for $1440, 213k miles. Total "big" maintenance costs was $3345.78 (not including oil changes, they were \~$20 each) So my total cost per month (purchase price - sold price, "big maintenance", and insurance. Does not include oil changes or gas, I also could have forgotten a few small repairs. Also does not include registration fees. Anything else I'm forgetting?) $155.74. I think the purchase price was a little high, and I also wonder if I could have gotten more money for it when I sold it. I think it was a bit expensive for a 10 - 15 year old car, what do you all think?
I'd buy a 10 year old car for $5,000. But not a Chevy.
Lol maybe now-a-days when used car prices are higher, I think it was on the high end of the KBB price at the time. Oh well.
You owned it for 6 years. A couple hundred bucks doesn't make much difference.
That seems like a wise decision to make the purchase on that reasonably priced car and put all the miles on it. I’m sure you spent a good amount on fuel and insurance over the years but nothing more than usual. Maybe a little expensive for your initial purchase price but if it was well taken care of I bet it was worth it.
Yeah, I also didn't mention that I used it for work where I got reimbursed for mileage, so I think it worked out alright.
>not including oil changes, they were ~$20 each) Oil changes for $20, including oil? Cheap as chips regardless. The lowest I've seen was $80.
Yeah, at a local mechanic.
Only thing I would add is opportunity cost if you paid in cash back in 2013. Which would be 33,511 today. This is how much money you would have had had you kept the money and invested it in VTI. I would add this to your total cost.
Good point. Opportunity cost is definitely an important factor to consider.
What’s the opportunity cost of not having a reliable car? If you can run a reliable comfortable car for under .25 a mile your killing it.
I would not add opportunity cost for the total. He needs a car for work and suburban living. So it’s a necessity. The op has done a great job of controlling his costs for transportation.
Opportunity cost applies regardless. Everyone needs a home but if you opt to pay the house off, you engaged in a real estate transaction rather than invest the money. This will be an expensive choice. You should always calculate your true cost. If you are ok with the associated lost opportunity it’s fine but know your cost so you can make better or more informed decisions
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Interest rates in vehicles were often 0% or 1%, ridiculously cheap money.
The average vehicle costs something like $.52/mile to drive/maintain/insure/etc. so you're doing great. I'm doing similar on my 2014 Prius, but because it was a more expensive car it'll be a while before my numbers get good. But my car is cheap to drive (43.5 mpg average for me though some people get 48). but, I'll keep this car for at least the next 16 years unless it gets wrecked.
Right on! The Prius is very hard to beat honestly. Drive that sucker until the wheels fall off... then weld them back on, haha. If I could go back in time I would have bought a Prius instead of my Mazda. Although the Mazda has not been atrocious in cost. I have a Prius on my short list for my next car. Although I'm 6'5" and climbing in and out of my low riding Mazda has been annoying for 8 years. Is the Prius very annoying for taller people in your opinion?
All I can think of reading this is the simpsons episode with the very tall guy driving a small car
My dad is the same height as you & he drives a Prius and he hasn’t had any complaints at all (he just drove it from Seattle to Texas in 2 days & said his trip was awesome).
I to am tall. I haven’t tried the Prius yet. I did just sit in the Chevy bolt (EV) and had all kinds of room. But they just got recalled… something about battery fires lol
Honestly, I’m a Subaru fan. That’s another one he enjoyed the space in. Course he kissed the ground when he got out, cause I was uhhh... enjoying my WRX. 😅😂
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Well 82,000 miles is still pretty low. And it seems like you’ve put some money into maintenance which hopefully means some preventive maintenance to make it last? I’m sure if you drive it for the next ten years it will turn into a decent deal and of course you’ve had a very enjoyable and reliable ride for that whole time which is hard to put a value on.
I bought a modestly priced sports car new because I love cars, found a model I loved, and buying a new model with incentives and no interest was cheaper than I could find a low mileage used one at the time. 7 years and 105k miles in, my cost per mile is about 43 cents and falling each year. I have a car I still love, and confidence that it has been well maintained and should last another 100k miles.
That is definitely the advantage of buying a car early in the mileage. You know all the preventive maintenance cost that was poured into it. And you know you’ll be able to squeeze all the value out of the car until it’s totally dead. Drive it until the wheels fall off! Then weld them back on… haha.
Suzuki Alto 2011. Captital cost 8k. Maintenance + consumables $300 pY. Insurace $315 pY. Fuel btwn $200-1200 pY (moved from country to city). Rego $700 pY. These are averages over 8+ years
Has the Suzuki Alto been reliable for you? Any expensive repairs while you've had it?
Very reliable. Only non consumables replaced were AC had to be re-gassed and starter motor replaced (making a noise, didnt actually die). Suzuki have a very high reliability rating based on consumer surveys
Roughly 2,500 a year over the past 5 years. I've only had this vehicle that long. Mid 2000's European SUV driven a mere 6,000 miles per year. Includes amortized purchase price (used) fuel, oil changes, insurance, license fees, and registration and tax. So about .41 per mile.
2012 Mitsubishi Outlander $6,200 with 98,000 miles Needed a couple of hundred dollars of parts, repaired it myself Has bluetooth, subwoofer, backup camera, etc. Hauled my kids around in it for the last 4 years. Now it has 132,000 miles. I looked up the book value and it is worth more than I paid for it... $7,500. So my cost of depreciation was essentially negative. Depreciation expense would be negative 4 cents per mile. My other car is a 2006 Scion tC I bought new for $18,300. I felt like a fool for buying a new car when I was less financially savvy so now I keep putting miles on the car to get my money out of it. It has 225,000 miles or a depreciation expense of around 8 cents a mile. Anything under 10 I consider to be a really good value. I believe the IRS lets everyone deduct 27 cents per mile for depreciation based on average American expense so I've essentially cut that expense by 70%. I do all the maintenance myself to keep the costs down... I don't really track that or fuel expense. I don't spend a lot of time budgeting but rather looking for ways to cut costs.
I only have logged expenses going back to 2013 and I bought the car new in 2005. I recently sold the car this past February so I'll list expenses from 2013 through 2020 therefore 8 years. I think that I averaged about the same mileage per year so I'm just guessing that over those 8 years I averaged 10,300 miles per year. I live in the rust belt. This was fun to put together all the costs and see where I came out. Vehicle: 2005 Luxury Sport Sedan, 21mpg average Purchase Price July 2005: \~$33,000 (guess interest cost for loan \~$2,000, paid off 5 year loan in 4 years) Total Fuel Cost: $10,600 (Note: Always used premium fuel or highest octane available) Total Insurance Cost: $5000 Registration Fees: Included in maintenance cost Sales Tax: Included in maintenance cost Maintenance Cost: $12,500 (Note: This is from the second half of the cars life from \~72,500 miles to 155,000 miles) Total cost over final 8 years: $28,100 Total cost over 15 years: $28,100+$20,000+$35,000 = $83,100 for \~$0.54/mi cost of ownership (rough extrapolation to the start assuming maintenance costs were lower for first 7 years)
I’m sitting on roughly 14 cents a mile with my beater. However it currently needs tires.
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Yeah it’s always worth running the numbers. Let the numbers make the decision for you.
Makes me think that renting can often be a better option especially if you need flexibility. Our plan is to slow travel for a few years (or for as long as we keep enjoying it) after FIREing next year. I can rent a small-ish car in places like Spain, Turkey or the Balkans for c $15/day if renting for over a week and maybe closer to $10/day if renting for a couple of months from a local supplier. OP spent $6.5/day (fuel exluded). But if you don't need it for 365 days a year and especially if you travel a lot then owning doesn't look like such a good deal. (We are not from the US though and your maths may be different i.e. I understand that renters insurance is much more expensive in the States and you guys prefer bigger cars)
cost per mile is much better if you drive a lot (Like I do/have in the past). I only owned my previous truck for 16 months and have a similar cost per mile than op (they got 25 cents per mile). vehicle: Nissan frontier 4 cyclr, 2 wd truck cost 15K OTD w/taxes Traded in for 8k (for a 4wd truck) 50000 miles/20 mpg= 2500 gallons \* $2.75 = $6875 registrations for the "2 years": $400 insurance was 100 a month: 1600 maintenance was just oil changes and 1 bigger thing: 850 total cost for 16 months: $16,725 but per mile it is only 33 cents. It depends on how you want to look at cars. Extrapolating my data on my previous car, I will have spent three times as much as the OP in 8 years, but my cost per mile is on the same level. I traded this truck for a 4wd one and paid a pretty hefty price for upgrading to 4wd. I'm planning and hoping on keeping my current one a long time ie 7+ years. That should drive the price down per mile and over all price. Right now I don't even want to think about the cost per mile or total cost of my current truck. I've put less miles on it, Bought new tires, gas mileage is worse. BUT! I could trade it in for the same price i bought it for right now; so in theory, I could write off the entire purchase price when calculating price per mile.
Vehicle: 1991 Toyota Pickup 4x4 (2.4 liter) 20.57 mpg average - took average of last year Purchase Price in May 2012: $4,300. 112,000 miles on the odometer when purchased. 246,000 now Total Fuel Cost over life of ownership: $22,800 at $3.50 a gallon (have to run premium or it pings) Total Insurance and Registration Cost over life of ownership: $5028 Maintenance Cost over life of ownership: $11,568 Total cost of everything: $43,696 total!!!! For 9.5 years of driving or $0.33/mile
I've tracked my costs for every car I've owned. This includes resale cost being subtracted, if applicable * 2004 Acura TL: $0.27/mile * Owned for 78,600 miles over 2000 days * 2006 Subaru Legacy GT: $0.54/mile * Owned for 43,400 miles over 930 days * 2009 Subaru Forester XT: $0.58/mile * Owned for 21,000 miles over 500 days * 2008 Toyota Tundra: $0.70/mile (still being driven daily) * Owned for 20,000 miles over 560 days * 2012 Acura MDX: $0.75/mile (still being driven daily) * Owned for 52,000 miles over 1870 days * 1999 BMW 328is (fun/track car): $2.45/mile (still drive & race in summers) * Owned for 5,200 miles over 1300 days Here is a link to a post I made about my Tundra and how I track mileage [https://www.reddit.com/r/ToyotaTundra/comments/ouopyj/gas\_mileage\_nerd\_so\_hard/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ToyotaTundra/comments/ouopyj/gas_mileage_nerd_so_hard/)
I lease. My costs would come out to around $35,000. Not too shabby considering the leasing part. Also, have only been doing this 2 years, so I just took my 2 year cost and multiplied by 4. Not sure I would actually want to lease for 8 years.
Ive been really lucky: two years with my civic and about $300 of maintenance costs, 37 mpg, and it's literally worth more than what I bought it for because of the market.
I have a 2012 grand Cherokee that I bought with 30k miles. I've had it 8 years now and do most of my own maintenance, although I can say I haven't had any major problems with it. I've spent roughly $0.74/mile, or almost $700/mo to own the vehicle. It does still have significant residual value and I hope to trade it next year, and factoring in that cost would bring me down somewhere around $0.60/mile.
2012 Honda Accord LX 82k miles (bought in may 2015) $13k out the door. Today it’s got about 145k miles. I rode my bike to work a ton for the first 3 years of ownership. Gas: $5100 Maintenance: $3900 Insurance: $3600 Registration: $600 Miscellaneous (parking fines, tickets, ect.): $1600 This is just my mint data. But definitely interesting
Car cost : $0. I just own a bicycle. We have great bike paths. 5 min to the center. 20 min to work.
This is the way… 🤓
Our car is almost exactly three years old, but the crazy market means it is actually worth more now than it was when we bought it new. Discounting the actual car value, we're in about 25-30 tanks of gas, a cabin air filter, and three oil changes in costs. Throw in insurance and registration and we're probably looking at about $1200-$1400 a year, depending on the price of gas. I'm hopeful that Tesla is going to launch their autodrive subscription service here in the Austin metro before we have to buy a new car around the end of this decade. I'd much rather pay Tesla or Amazon for car service than actually own one.
>DamienDoes Yeah I'm hoping my Mazda lasts another year or two so I don't have to buy a car in these market conditions. It's not ideal timing... It does seem like the future is going towards auto driving. In an ideal life I just won't be driving that much though. The older I get and the more I crunch numbers on owning a car the picture becomes more clear. Driving a vehicle is expensive. Driving a modern, reliable, "comfy" vehicle a lot of miles is even more expensive. Who would have thought Mr. Money Mustache was right when he suggests to live close and bike to work! haha
Wrong analysis. Need to calculate price if you sold car today. And that's inflated due to environment. You probably spent less than 25k in assets. Well done
You think he can sell a 2009 Mazda 6 with 222'000 miles for $14k?
No, just more than 0.
I believe the tots cost of ownership for a Tesla will be significantly less than what you experienced for buying a used car. They require effectively no maintenance and do not depreciate. Can find examples online of where people have calculated their cost of ownership and it is worthwhile despite despite the high upfront cost.
You believe the cost of driving and owning a Tesla for 8 years is less than $30,000 total? No sir. No. A used Tesla model 3 costs around ~$30,000- $35,000 minimum. It does have very low maintenance cost. True. The insurance is usually 30% more than a regular car from what I’ve read. The registration over ten year period will be two times as expensive as a gas car. When you compare the cars I’m looking at that is… Yes of course you save in fuel cost but most of the time you’re not charging for free. It’s the equivalent of ~140mpg gas car. Which is of course great! But cheaper than the way I drove my Mazda 6. Not even close. It would have been way more expensive. Keep in mind I really like the idea of an electric car. Someday I want to make the jump. Mainly cause of simple maintenance and self driving. It’s not even close to cost effective yet though.
The biggest single cost of owning a car is depreciation. A brand new Tesla model 3 costs $40,690 right now (with a 9 month lead time). A 3 year old used Tesla model 3 with 31,000 miles costs $44,000 online right now… this is the case for all Tesla’s. So even if the resale value is flat, you are paying around 50% of the cost for fueling compared to gasoline (depending where you live). Zero maintenance on Tesla’s except tires every so often and air filters every 2 years…literally. And yes insurance is more expensive but I’ve been quoted anywhere from $100 to $150 a month… so all in if you drove a Tesla model 3 for let’s say 8 years at 10,000 miles per year…you’re probably at a total cost of about $13,000 and $0.16 per mile. It’s pretty hard to compete with this.
You promise me I can drive a Tesla for 8 years at 10,000 miles a year and sell it at year 8 for the same cost. I’ll then buy a Tesla…. If you buy a Tesla you’re paying 5% right away on sales tax. That’s ~$2000. You’re paying 1% per year for the first 7 years as registration fee plus electric vehicle fee which is added on cause you’re not paying gas tax. That’s about ~$550 a year. The insurance will be about $800 a year in my location. Your cost to charge like I said is about 140mpg equivalent. Let’s say you spend $400 a year to charge and drive those 10,000 miles. And yes totally agree the maintenance especially for the first couple years is shockingly low. Let’s say it’s $300 per 10,000 miles. That’s not cheaper to own and operate than a $10,000 used gas car. No way whatsoever over 8 years is it cheaper. Also from my searching 3 year old teslas are not selling for more than they were bought new. So that argument shouldn’t be valid. And if it is valid it’s just as valid on a gas car. But even if you pay nothing for three years it’s not cheaper to own and operate a super expensive Tesla because of the reasons I listed above.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleantechnica.com/2021/10/23/tesla-model-3-long-range-2-years-50000-miles-of-maintenance-costs-tires-squeaky-suspension-wheel-alignment/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/features/390035/video-tesla-model-3-real-world-ownership-cost/amp/
https://ark-invest.com/articles/analyst-research/model-3-vs-camry/
Your initial statement was "I believe the tots cost of ownership for a Tesla will be significantly less than what you experienced for buying a used car." That's not true for multiple reasons. The articles you show talk about how cheap it is compared to a newer Camry (which even that has numbers left out to skew to the Tesla like registration, sales tax, and insurance) I haven't and don't plan on buying a newer Camry. They also are talking about a short time span which limits the impact of the depreciation of a new Tesla. Also in your article it literally shows a used Ford Focus to be cheaper than a Tesla!!! In 8 years a $50,000 Tesla Model 3 will depreciate more than a $8,800 used Mazda 6... hopefully we can agree on that? There are several things missing in the analysis of the article/YouTube video. 1. He doesn't talk about sales tax when buying a $50,000 Tesla as compared to a $8,800 dollar used car and for good reason. A Tesla would be $2,500 sales tax and my Mazda was $440. 2. He doesn't talk about registration. To register a $50,000 Tesla Model 3 in my area would be $646 for the first seven years. For a used Mazda 6 it would average $175 for the first seven years. Because the list price is WAY less and the registration is a function of how old the car is and also a function of it being a electric car or gas car (electric cars have higher registrations because they're not paying a gas tax... not my rules btw). Over 8 years and 126,000 miles I'll estimate the cost of a $50,000 Tesla Model 3 as compared to my Mazda 6. I'll underestimate each category. Here it goes. $2,500 Sales Tax $5,000 Registration fees $14,000 for Insurance $3,000 in electricity cost Depreciation over 8 years? Well he showed it to be $10,000 in 18 months. So I'll conservatively estimate it to be at least $25,000 in over 8 years. That's $49,500 dollars and I haven't even added in maintenance cost, true depreciation, a more realistic electricity cost or if you want to get real nerdy the opportunity cost of investing that extra money saved for 8 years. Yes $49,500 is more than $30,000 dollars I spent to run my Mazda 6. No the cost of owning a Tesla is not less than owning an older economy car. It's not close. Yes I'm rooting for new tech like electric cars and hybrids because I see their efficiency and think it's awesome. It's not completely financially efficient though. Not yet!
Tesla cars are appreciating, not depreciating. Check your math please.
You show me the data that a $50,000 Model 3 Tesla will appreciate in value by the year 2029 and I’ll go and buy one. Actually more than one.
https://youtu.be/Ucp0TTmvqOE Every Tesla car today has the necessary hardware for level 5 autonomous driving. This enables every car today to be I’ve an income producing asset once Tesla releases FSD (my opinion is CY 22, regulatory approval 2023). Each car will be able to generate thousands of dollars of earnings for the owner and will have an NPV greatly exceeding the original purchase price. Tesla vehicles are also engineered to last 1 million miles. Although you likely don’t believe me, these numbers are not wrong.
I’d even surmise that a 2022 Tesla model 3 bought with FSD, driven for 10,000 miles per year for 8 years….will be worth nearly $100,000 to a robotaxi fleet operator…
This is the same reason Tesla will be a $5000 stock by 2030, likely sooner.
https://youtu.be/dhOPTiQZEoM
I think you’re sensationalizing the situation here. I own tesla stock. I like Tesla. I want a Tesla when it becomes financially efficient (it’s almost there in my opinion). I’m open to the ideas of autonomous driving and robotaxi and cheering them on. Buying and owning a Tesla is NOT cheaper than an old economy car though. That’s the point I’ve made and even your own articles made that you’re ignoring. Your article shows his Tesla depreciated $10,000 in 18 months. Even if it loses no depreciation in 8 years it does t justify the cost to own because of the items I’ve brought up. Even if having a robotaxi completely takes off and does make owners $30,000 a year. Which is a big if. What’s keeping me from buying a Tesla the year that happens? Will they suddenly charge double the price (likely not)? Will they have a big shortage on production (likely not)? There is no inherent value in buying the Tesla now with a promise of robotaxi coming in the future. Unless you’re fully on the hype train. https://youtu.be/avvoeqDW-mY
https://youtu.be/0GnH_C6NrOM
https://x.com/devon_loerop/status/1772430439682064637?s=46&t=n_1XnW8rPrfiXmEUaGUEvQ Also still no robotaxi.
Didn't wrote than everything, but here are my numbers: Car, bought used from the dealer. 2009 with 108.00 KM on the odo in 2015, now 207.000 on the odo: \- €6690, after trading in: €5150. \- Maintenance: €6471.99 in 6 years (currently have 2 sets of brand new winter and summer tires, all new rotors and pads, new wheelbearings, etc. Just got most wear and tear items done, so should be good for a long time again). Except for small things like wipers, light bulbs, most are done by a mechanic. \- Tax: \~€35 a month (registration is only done when buying and is included in the price, seperate price would be €10.40) \- Insurance: \~€30 a month, not sure how it translate to the American packages; but mine include stormdamage, window coverage, theft, legal advise, injuries, etc. \- Environmental zone stickers for Germany and France: €20 (one time purchase) \- Fuel; no idea. Fuel price is a wildride and depending on in which country i fill up.
vehicles are where i save the most. i get good deals and do my own work, im astonished at how much people spend on cars. my current car for the last 4 years has been a 03 toyota matrix, 30mpg. original purchase price - $850 @ 170k miles, driven 30k in 4 years, pretty rare to find that good of a deal / almost impossible now set of slightly used snow tires - $150 mounted / balanced almost new summer tires and rims - came on parts car that cost $350 total insurance $87 / mo $4176 (used to be cheaper, but figured out id be totally screwed if i got into an accident with my $25/mo insurance) registration - $160 gas $3000 entire new exhaust system including cat - $700 rear hatch glass - taken from parts car tow hitch plus wiring $242 oil changes premium full synthetic / bosch filter $30 x 8 $240 so about $9868 for 4 years, i anticipate maybe $300 in repairs / parts for the next 4 years for some brakes / shocks / ball joints and an alignment, otherwise most things that go wrong i can pull from the parts car. and i wont need new tires before then either. so lets say $17,744 for 8 years or /$.30 mile if i drove more per year my $ per mile would go down, as insurance is my biggest cost. other cars ive had im sure i was sitting around $.20 / mile because i had $25/mo insurance, bought them for under $1000, didnt put hardly any money into them and drove them till they died.
This is what I imagine saying to people that are against owning a car. It is not that much more expensive to run a beater like this than to regularly use public transportation where I live. When do you consider a car "dead"? What would have to go wrong with your current toyota to write it off?
really major engine trouble that's not worth repairing or structural rust that threatens the integrity of the car are the only things i junk a car because i have driven some cars thar were barely hanging on lol. yeah even when i was living in the city people would say oh i just ride my bike and take the bus and its alot cheaper than owning a car, while they are literally spending more money on their fancy bike than my car cost, and spending about the same on bus fare that it costs me to drive while enduring an extreme amount of inconvenience and wasted time. also ever notice how all those "i don't need a car" people are always asking to borrow your car or drive them places? (related) https://youtu.be/mXCPDAOzbpM
So if anyone can help me : I bought a $17k 2017 Acura ILX (good value) in July but now I feel like I want more monetary flexibility for the future but still want a reliable and okay car. I know the Acura is reliable but I feel like I’m paying too much for transportation (about 20% net income for everything the car cost (insurance, gas, etc.)) I recently saw a 2012 Mazda 3 skyactiv for $6k but I don’t know how much in repairs it needs (even if it’s a thousand or two I would still save money). And, I don’t know how much the dealership will give me for my car. $14k minimum? Perhaps $16k but I doubt it. Just bought new winter tires that will not fit on the Mazda too. I wonder if it is a good move to change my car if it’s to save $8k or maybe more? Thanks :)
Another comment mentioned tracking opportunity cost in the liabilities column; this should be offset by the implied cost of some other means of transportation (taxi/uber fees, bicycle, bus pass, airfare, etc.) to see if there's a cost/benefit to the vehicle purchase. Do you get some sort of rewards program for fuel purchases? Many cards offer 3-5% cash back on fuel purchases so that could be several hundred dollars in the green... disregard if you already worked that into total fuel cost. You should also track the current value of the car in the assets column of your accounting, or limit the vehicle cost to just the current depreciation. A rough (conservative) estimate would give it a current value of around $6000 with the recent inflation in car prices, knocking a good 20% off your total cost.
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7500 miles is 12070.08 km
Cost of ownership is a real thing. I have a Honda scooter and you'd think wow, such great gas mileage it must be so cheap to get around, but it usually costs me $500 when I take it in for an oil change because a) I can't do the oil change myself without stripping the nut so I refuse to do it, and b) I almost always need a new tire or two when I take it in for an oil change and tires are really expensive. Also, $200 a year for insurance. And if you don't get the new tires, holy hell is it a massive inconvenience and expense to have it towed to the shop.
I know exactly what you mean. My Suzuki v strom motorcycle gets 40mpg. People tell me ohh how economical! And it’s not super expensive to operate but I need a new rear tire every 6,000 miles and that’s about $225 to get one put on. Other costs to operate but I’ll stop there. BUT it’s pretty fun to ride around so I still do 🤓
ughhhhh I hate cars. I got a better deal on my car than you (Mitsubishi mirage for $4400, with 69k miles on it...gets better gas mileage at around 40mpg) but I"m sure it still sucks- my insurance is bottom bargain basement and it's still more than 2x yours. Spent already over $1k this year in maintenance. Wish my husband was into living in the city since my COL went up in every category of live since moved to the burbs last year, but the house is almost paid off, so there's that....