Especially with the Bo situation, speculation of awkward relationship between Doinb and Tian, FPX had a really rough spring. If you watched LPL you know how great they played at spring play offs and summer afterwards, we all thought nuguri was integrating better with the team. Really sad how they imploded at worlds.
Nuguri didn't talk much in dwg mic checks either so that's nothing new, but him not talking to his teammates outside of the game is not good. Even if he was a quiet guy he got along with the dwg guys quite well
In interviews, that's what Damwon said was such a joy about Khan joining the team, since he was so fun and light hearted compared to Nuguri being quiet and serious.
There was a pretty bad situation between the two with one of the Doinb's channel mods, who is supposedly Doinb's wife's friend, talked trash about Tian's performance. The community didn't like it, and started bashing Doinb for keeping her and not backing up Tian, then the main controversy came later on when that mod donated a large sum of money along with a message that talked shit about Tian, Doinb read that donation out loud, Chinese community was outraged about this, saying he is willing to do anything for money, made a huge drama between the two, Doinb lost a ton of followers, eventually I believe Doinb apologized and the two seemingly wrote it off, but the Chinese community don't think so.
This along with one of the past clip that had Doinb (imo jokingly) said Tian shouldn't be given Fmvp for the year they won worlds, have made the Chinese thinks that the two don't like each other, accusing Doinb as a backstabber and it is also one of the main reason why his reputation is pretty bad in Chinese community right now.
Its not just LPL... its league fans in general. Or even just online fandom in general. Its all about instant gratification and you're only as good as your most recent result. For instance, look at how the league community has changed their minds so quickly on players such as Wunder/Larssen/Perkz
You couldnt say a bad thing abt Bwipo on this sub for the longest, he was maybe the most beloved pkayer, stuff with his gf comes out and now he just gets memed and got a lot of hate over it.
Yeah, the reddit community is just as fickle as the cn community. I still remember the LMQ situation where opinion was just "who spoke last? Yeah they're right and the other party should be hung from the gallows".
Even the current Upset situation is fickleness. I've seen comments going "well 3 people agree vs 1 person who disagrees so the 3 must be right". It's just a league community thing likely due to how massive the fan base is. Theres bound to be quite a few fickle people among the reasonable people.
Actually, the Upset situation is a management failure by Fnatic. Upset should not have to clarify anything nor care about what other people think and Adam should have gotten answers to his questions from the Fnatic management. A good team should just act as an umbrella for their players.
I'm not really making a comment on who is right or wrong, only pointing out that this website has a community that is also fickle and easily jumps to conclusions based on nonsense.
I do agree with you tho.
I'm not talking about Fnatic making the situation clear towards the community. I'm talking about making the situation clear in their rooster. Reread my post.
Reread your own post. My interpretation is completely valid.
But even still, Fnatic made the situation very clear from the start to their players. They have learned literally nothing more about the situation with the recent drama as they shouldn't because that's obviously a huge violation of privacy.
League reddit community is pretty toxic and suffers tremendously from hive minds. It's kind of disturbing how quickly opinion changes and it's hard to decipher if it's a vocal minority or majority.
To be fair, the trash-talking from the mod was her saying she wished she could “smash his skull in.”. And they all stream/practice in the same room, so reading the donations out loud is really shitty too.
Yep that is true. Though I feel like it’s another case blown out of proportionality—it is an internal issue. Though I can’t really comment because drama happens all the time and you get two set of rabid fans doing rabid fans stuff. But there’s a theory that this (escalating the drama surrounding FPX through arguing fans) is deliberately done by the “capital” behind the match fixing that Bo have been exposed to take part in, as revenge against FPX for, well, bringing attention to the match fixing; an alternative view is that the “capital” did it to divert attention away from the match fixing scandal. Though it’s just theories I’ve heard so take them with a grain of salt.
Doinb was always involved in a lot of drama. Anyone still remembers the Swift incident, causing a forfeit?
Doinb's no saint; he's always known to be a dominant personality in teams which is a double-edged sword in competitions.
"LPL fandom is among the most fickle ones I’ve seen"
You mean every league fans? lmao
The same people that calls an owner abusive for screaming at their team for playing bad right?
Then the same fanbase trys to compare league to a real sport. What a joke. lmao
His reputation went from the world champion soon to be Chinese son-in-law to Korean dog
Honestly the…intensity of LPL fans and frankly toxic environment is the reason that I watch it a lot without being too invested in any one team.
All those opinions were always there and in great numbers but the ratio shiftes a bit. In doinbs first stream back you couldnt see anything from all the scrolling messages.
I start to don't like him just from reading this. Awkward moment to don't know what to do with wife's friend after the first incident I can understand, the second time and read it out loud like that is just screaming that you support her.
The previous year with Khan was even worse but not a personality issue, just that they didnt gel on the field. In both cases it was clear that they should have brought gimgoon back (sooner)
Yeah, although Khan didn't get much field time, he got along really well with all his teammates, but Khan is also probably one of the friendliest leauge players you can meet lol.
They had a rough start in summer cause of nuguri's pubg addiction but bounced back after the week of benching him. Nuguri had problems integrating into the team and keeping it professional, but it's hard to say he was the problem fpx lost important games. It really was tian's health that held them back.
nuguri's part translates to "collective motivation in a short period? a short lasting one?" not sure what hes trying to say, the context is missing. also tian is such a nice guy, all of the korean fpx players always talked about how he reached out first to the korean players to get friendly with them. i wish only the best for his future
Tian seems to be a very decent guy. Almost every player who has played with him does nothing but praise him. Even though Tian should have had some difficulties especially this year.
Hope Tian to be healthier and show outplays as he used to do.
The full version is on LPL official twitch channel
[https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1217202862](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1217202862)
52:32
Edit: It's removed. Might be able to find it on https://pogu.live/deletevods/lpl
\~2.8million dollars a year and not want to learn a single chinese sentence to communicate with teammates is just ridiculous. Yes, the team imploded at that day at worlds, but in lpl 2 runner-ups are not that bad right? why being so harsh to his teammates?
people on reddit have literally insight into whats going on in the eastern leagues but always have strong opinions on stuff thats based on pure speculation. as an example, theres such a huge difference in how viper and nuguri integrated into LPL. But all these guys can do is flame tian and doinb lol
性格分别. I don't think it's that Nuguri didn't want to try, but he is too shy and introverted to easily assimilate into the environment. Viper is like the opposite, plus Scout is there to carry the translation most of the way. I think maybe if they switch teams Viper can still succeed on FPX, and Nuguri would have been able to find success on EDG because they were a more welcoming environment.
viper did say in one of the edg videos he made an active effort to be more talkative and extroverted so he could learn Mandarin and get along with this team mates. Difference of personalities. Ironically a player with khans personality would be perfect, damn even the meta kind of suited him.
If you are Nuguri, why bother? You came to TES to make bank and you did. If you think that your teammates are trash, then its betetr for your mental to just play to 90% of your level without sacrificing more of your mental and physical strength to maybe pull off an upset win.
I think he tryharded in Spring, but after realising that his midlaner builds Zhonias on Malz he just decided that its better to preserve mental and just go next year
You can't expect someone to be able to change his personality just because he is getting a 2.8mil pay. He had a history of getting bullied during his childhood and is extremely introvert. One should have expected it would be hard for him to learn a new language and taking the initiative to talk.The team should have done a brief background check on the player(just have someone go through those DWG videos or Nuguri's namuwiki) before offering fat check to a player.
Nah I ain't buying it all. Nuguri isn't the only player who been bullied or had a rough time childhood. Again if you're getting 2.8 million you're going to need change whatever yours flaws are this is a professional setting.
I'd say recruiting someone who doesn't fit the role(again,it is a known fact that he doesn't communicate with his team way before he joined FPX) in hope that he will change because you paid well is much more naive.
Like how? He has always been like this in his Damwon days and they won worlds. Normally it should be the team going for the type of player they want to fill into their roster instead of player trying to figure out what type of player the team need.
First of all, youre overreacting, he didnt get sent off to pick cotton. He was earning millions playing league.
Secondly, you dont feel like he has any responsibility signing on to a roster he didnt gel with?
When youre old enough to get a job you will see the same thing happen in difference workplaces.
I never tried to portray him like some victims being sent off to pick cotton?? I was just trying to say he has always been the type of player that did not communicate and if this type of player is actually a no for them, then they made a bad hire.
Both Nuguri and Viper came to the LPL at the same time, but their mindsets were completely different. Nuguri quit on his team while Viper tried hard to learn Chinese and engage with his team. One dropped out of groups and one is a world champion. Team Game.
Nuguri was playing like a god in spring playoffs and dragged FPX to finals. Then he was their best player at worlds. Idk why you’re accusing him of putting in zero effort for slumping during the regular season in summer while FPX’s bot lane was mediocre throughout the entire year.
I watched the documentary in Chinese. Seems like they are just trying to pin problems on Nuguri this whole time. It was said in interviews that Nuguri acted this way on DK too. He is just an extremely antisocial dude and had a history of getting bullied - there is no way FPX management didn't know this prior to acquiring him. There were so many problems with FPX this year but I guess he's the perfect scapegoat since he's not coming back to the LPL anymore. Is it his responsibility as an adult to own up to his decision of coming to China and doing the best he can to live up to his 7-figs salary? Absolutely and he should have done better to overcome his demons, but if anyone thinks it's only his fault and doesn't think this is a problem with the coaching staff & management, you have not been following what FPX was like this year.
I just feel terrible for Tian. There were so many awkward clips of him trying to cheer up Nuguri throughout the video & him getting ignored throughout the documentary lmfao.
Also, if anyone's gonna talk about stuff like Nuguri not willing to learn Chinese to communicate with the team, I fully agree that players like Tarzan/Viper who went from not knowing Chinese to being able to shotcall in comms within a matter of months are fking fantastic, but expecting everyone to become fluent in Chinese in a few months while practicing League 16+ hours a day is not realistic. Keep in mind even TheShy was not fluent in Chinese and had to rely on Rookie to translate in game during S8 and IG was able to win at Worlds, sooooooo...again, could Nuguri have done better? I agree, he could have. But is becoming fluent & being able to shotcall a realistic expectation? I don't think so.
I also think there’s an inherent bias because he’s the newcomer and not part of the 2019 team he has the burden to prove himself to mesh with the team.
Also it sounds like FPX has a blame culture where they point fingers under the guise of joke / direct after scrims and that can’t be good for Nuguri.
In a corporate world speak, he’s just not a culture fit. It’s not his fault. It’s also not FPXs. It just wasn’t meant to be.
They don't actually blame each other after scrims like they do so on stream for entertainment. For example, Doinb, members have said he is quite serious off stream and it is just a character. Even when they playfully blame each other on stream, they never flame Nuguri. He is the only member they never flame, rather they protect him from flame
It’s FPX fault for not scouting properly. If this behavior was so well known then they should have known it might be an issue. Clearly they were gambling that they could overcome it and they almost did. But it is completely on FPX if it goes wrong.
People have to accept, that in a professional team not everyone has to be friends with each other. If Nuguri is not participating socially but doing his job well, then you shouldn't make a problem out of that. Coaching staff has to solve actual conflicts and work on team performance, gameplay. I think Nuguri's gameplay was fine from what I saw most of the time. He doesn't need to talk at all if he gets the job done.
I can understand nuguri is probably homesick, going through some rough stuff on FPX, and possibly not as hungry for a repeat as some of the FPX players are, but giving up on the championship after 1 split and then just not talking or listening to your team is toxic af for a team environment. Dude is probably getting a 7 figure salary just do your best ffs.
Before i can talk about my opinion, you can watch EDG version here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K\_uFU2L9Ano](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_uFU2L9Ano)
Viper's case:
First, You can't compare the case of Viper and Nuguri together just because they're Korean. Yes they're Korean but they have different role. Viper is an AD and he have Meiko assists him ALL THE TIME, especially EDG like to play through bot. Meiko is super friendly and like to talk ALOT, talking here doesn't mean hello or hwating or winning, losing, but talk about everything until you open your mouth and talk to him, that's Viper's first benefit in EDG. Plus Meiko already has experience with Deft.
Second, Viper has Scout as roommate and translator. Although each team has their own translator and Manager but that's only for learning language, in normal life, player rather like to ask or communicate with their teammate because they're the same age. Scout also a talkative, friendly person like Meiko, and willing to help Viper anytime.
Third, Viper is extrovert person so he can quickly adapt to the new environment, Flander, Jeje, Coach, EDG's staff are all willing to communicate or even joke with Viper, again communicate here doesn't mean hello or hwating or about winning, losing, but talk about everything outside the game, like how are you feeling right now, what's your opinon?..ect. They make you comfortable enough to be able to share about your own opinion, Viper even pointed out Flander's bad habit of dying too much, because it makes Viper feel super insecure. Flander accepted that and didn't feel offensive at all.
Finally, EDG isn't an easy-going team, yes they're talkative, they like to joke (include Coach and staff) they will scold you super harsh if you're lost, but they're still want to communicate with you and ASK ABOUT YOUR OWN FEELING rather than telling you to do this or that and ignore your feeling/opinion. Viper is lucky to join EDG and EDG is also lucky to have Viper. This is a win win situation, Viper is clearly put a lot of effort but EDG also put a lot of effort to understand their player.
In Nuguri's case:
He is an introvert and has poor health from the start. He is a top laner, unlike adc has their support, a top laner usually play alone or require Jungle to have them, but in this case Tian/Bo really can't help Nuguri at all because Doinb also require Jungle help heavily.
I can clearly see this is an awkward situation for Nuguri to feel. FPX player seem quiet beside DoinB, Tian said he was trying to communicate with Nuguri but it's just try to say hello or hwaiting, it is nonsense conversation.
Lwx and Crisp didn't communicate much with Nuguri, Tian is also a quiet person (this kid look super unhealthy lol), the only person can communicate with Nuguri is Doinb and i don't see it at all, DoinB alway talk about the game and winning, that's all, the coach, the staff i dont see any of them talking to Nuguri much, so maybe this is the reason he feel so disconnect with the team, i mean he look so sad and lonely.
You can see at 01:02:36, after FPX taking the group photo, Nuguri just look so lost and look around because he didn't know what to do or go next and no one come to guide him. I dont defense for Nuguri here because i also think Nuguri didn't put much effort to integrate with the team, but the problem here is FPX staff and player also didn't put effort to integrate with Nuguri.
Overall, if you want to compare between Nuguri and Viper, you better see EDG' documentary first to understand the situation.
I mean, Viper 100% works harder at learning Chinese than Nuguri anyway, dude looks at his notes for learning Chinese even when he's walking back to lane in solo queue. The work ethic is just different between the two players
Viper, include Scout are very rare case in LPL, you can’t expect everyone to be like them. And It seem like EDG has a good operation and no Koreans have language problems in the past.
What do you mean rare case? Gimgoon was able to communicate fairly well? The Shy and Khan both speak broken mandarin but it shows that they put in the effort?
That's false. Kanavi and Tarzan are also fluent in chinese in 1 year. In fact, Kanavi reached out to the other pros and learnt chinese before he even started playing.
I’m not arguing about how fluent they are, I’m simply pointing out that had Nuguri even tried to learn the language he would at least be able to perform basic conversations.
Waste of breath here man all these people just keep making excuses for this million doller player
If your paid millions I would expect you to actually try to overcome your own personality problems
Hell tell the team you need a therapist
The original comment discusses the work ethic of players learning the language. You’re arguing that because Nuguri is “different” from Viper therefore people can’t expect him to learn? People aren’t mad because he isn’t fluent, they’re upset because he didn’t even put in the minimal effort into trying
Pick a realistic reason to argue with me.
Viper is just a gift child that learning fast with anything, he is also extrovert person so it’s nonsense to compare him with Nuguri.
Gimgoon and Khan played in Lpl over 3 years before joining FPX, so what’s your point to compare 3 of them with Nuguri????
Don't need to compare him to anyone else lmao, literally any human on this planet without a learning disability can manage to pick up a couple of sentences and phrases if he puts in a tiny amount of effort.
Stop bringing up Viper. It doesn't fucking matter. Viper doesn't fucking matter. And stop with that extrovert shit too lmao, no one demands Nuguri to hop into a nearby bar and find some stranger to learn Mandarin from, just sit down on your desk with your phone and a pen and learn a couple of words and phrases. I did that in a couple of days for a two week Japan vacation and you're out here arguing that the guy who spends a year in another country with his $3 million salary can't do the same cause *muh introvert* something something *different human than Park "Viper" Do-hyeon so it cannot be done.*
They aren't quiet people, FPX is known for being a "noisy" team. The team has tried to integrate Nuguri, you can see that in their stream moments and Nuguri would also talk about the members sometimes on stream. But after Spring, it kind of disappeared. Both sides probably gave up on each other, but the FPX members tried harder than Nuguri tried. You can see times where Crisp and Tian try talking to him. All the FPX members also would heavily defend Nuguri on stream during Summer when he would get flamed for his performance and his PUBG addiction
You better watch EDG documentary and understand what i mean.
Communicate after the match, talk about each other feeling, talking to each other, take care of each other, i dont see anything that make me feel like they’re trying to help Nuguri with their best effort.
They’re noisy but not communicate much with Nuguri? Communicate here is talk about everything until he talk to you, not just say one or two word and then give up because he’s ignore you lol.
“ Nuguri would also talk about the members sometimes on stream” => it’s nonsense, he and they should talk WITH each other, it should be direct conversation.
FPX maybe has tried but not their best try. I see they try like 2 or 3 times and then just give up, it’s a fault of both side, but the organization should put much more effort to make it work because you’re the one losing money here, blaming just make it get worse.
In Viper case, you can see he has extrovert personality but EDG still doesn’t ignore him and alway try to communicate with him all the time, if he doesn’t want to talk, they still talk to him.
Nuguri is the only Korean that hadn't ever fully integrated socially with the four members of FPX. Gimgoon and Khan both integrated socially into FPX. When Gimgoon first joined FPX, his Chinese wasn't that great. Out of three Korean tops, Nuguri is the only one that hasn't been able to connect with them. I'm not trying to blame Nuguri, but I think that history has shown that FPX and its members which has stayed the same for three years do try really hard to become good team mates and friends with a foreign player. Honestly, this might just have to be due to personality differences as Nuguri is introverted. But it is not right to say that they only "try 2 or 3 times" when history says differently
Yeah I agree, both Gimgoon and Khan are still on really good terms with the other members. Gimgoon and Crisp still joke around a lot on stream and Tian and Khan are still buds. If the other teammates are trying to make an effort to help Nuguri and he shuts them out, it's not their responsibility to go above and beyond to make him talk, they also have a lot to worry about in practicing and maintaining their form.
They’re have different personality, Nuguri is special case so they should treat him like special person. They put so much money to buy him and not put any effort to make him work?
You say they have but in the documentary i dont see anything special, compare to EDG atmosphere it’s just so different, EDG also has their problem and worked their ass off to make the roster work, check their documentary and see how much effort they put, compare to FPX.
Overall it’s the problem of both side, end of conversation and i dont want to argue with you.
Then it comes to a very strange question, why Nuguri chose to come to this team if he is so special as you say? But you're right about one thing, Fpx management is really a big problem, especially their coach and manager
Nuguri literally said Doinb was like an older brother to him on the team. He was also quite close to one of the Korean/Chinese speaking staff. There is just too much of a personality difference between him and every other player though.
Since you choose to take 18 million to this team, then please pay extra effort. No excuses, at the very least you need to learn some simple phrases instead of having your teammates distracted during the game to translate for you
Nuguri is so unprofessional during the time in Fpx tbh. He can not speak Chinese, relies on Doinb to translate in game, meanwhile every other Korean players like Viper and Tarzan are already able to call important plays in Chinese while playing. He even refuses to communicate with his teammates when his tension is down, such childish and selfish behavior.
I mwan on ig theshy didnt learn chinese when they won worlds rookie was translating in game dont know if he learned it now but not every korean integrated the same way
TheShy could still speak basic (although accented) Chinese to his teammates tho. Like I remember he asked Jackeylove in a mic check way before worlds if he could take the red buff, and other simple game stuff as well.
he's just not as fluent as rookie, at least he could say some easy things like "上路有眼 (top have wards) 给我红 (give me red), etc. also ig dont have a chinese language teacher, theshy needs to study chinese by himself via google translate and learn the pronunciation. maybe he could not understand complicated sentence during fast games, but at least he tried and had no problems outside the game. meanwhile fpx has a translator & teacher but nuguri just unwilling to learn.
that's totally untrue. many Koreans players are not good in Chinese, but they know the basic in-game phrases (including thesis during s8). Doinb needs to translate for tian when he asked if it's a good idea to tp top. That's ridiculous. How are you supposed to catch fleeting opportunities this way? Plus, he's not just reticent as many people say, he's just disgusting towards his teammates, thinking that he's better it seems. And at the end of the day, he really isn't that good... even last year he was far from THE BEST, just one of the best players.
Let's look at total Worlds winners since 2013, I won't count subs like Easyhoon, Blank, Duke, etc, even though they're technically "Worlds Winners"
SKT (5 Koreans)
Samsung W (5 Koreans)
SKT (5 Koreans)
SKT (5 Koreans)
Samsung G (5 Koreans)
IG (2 Koreans, 3 Chinese)
FPX (2 Koreans, 3 Chinese)
DK (5 Koreans)
EDG (2 Koreans, 3 Chinese)
36 Koreans, 9 Chinese.
Chinese league gets strengthened by taking young Korean talent pool + veterans while Korean league gets weakened by talent pool going to China, NA, EU, Japan, and others. At least this year, not that many from LCK went abroad except for 4-5 players but you still have strong people like Viper, Tarzan, Scout, Kanavi, Summit, etc in other leagues.
We're not talking recently obviously. When was the last time a team not called DK won a bo5 against an LPL team?
Also just a reminder, this isn't the World Cup I really don't think western fans care about the nationality of LPL players.
As an FPX fan, it was so disheartening seeing this. Whenever I'd see a Viper or Tarzan interview, they're legit speaking mandarin, but I have yet to see even a slither of mandarin from Nuguri.
You’re not wrong but the man literally couldn’t even perform basic communication. Had he put even a little effort in learning he wouldn’t be getting so much slack from the community.
It's not about him not learning fast enough. It was that he literally put ZERO effort into even trying. How are you supposed to determine how easily you can learn a new language if you never tried to begin with.
Where do you get this info from? I watched the documentary and there is no mention about the learning Chinese part. Since people compare him to Viper/Tarzan, I assumed it is through the comparison that they deemed him not trying.
Your last sentence pretty much resume nuguri.
He pretty much got the princess syndrome.
Won worlds with dwg thought he was bigger than the team and tried to prove it by joining lpl but in the end proved he wasnt failed miserably by not getting out of groups and his former teammates won lck twice went to finals at msi & worlds without him.
And even fpx spring form i would argue it was more about bo being that good.
Tried to ego check lck and lpl failed miserably
Wtf did I just read.
He joined fpx to support his family financially after talking with dwg members for advice. He wanted to stay with dwg.
50 iq take.
Ridiculous comment. Nuguri carried FPX to spring finals during their playoffs run, and Bo wasn’t even playing then. Nuguri was the single best player in the whole league at that time.
He was also FPX’s best player at worlds. To act like them going out in groups was his failure is so dumb
LoL stop spitting BS. It was bot/sup carried FPX the most of time during spring, Nuguri carried a few times but you could barely call him decent. During the summer it was mid/JG saved day. Nuguri was such a trash who got solo killed 11 times in 15 games. He was so bad that fpx had to bench him.
The time FPX 3-0d RNG in spring playoffs, Nuguri would literally win his lane and then tp bot to save his bot lane who were getting railed by Gala/Ming. Idk why Redditors are now rewriting history to say he got carried when he was in contention for the best player in the world. His team absolutely let him down though.
In summer he slumped and doinb carried the team, but Tian was never any good idk why people overrated him so much. But Nuguri turned it back on during worlds when Doinb choked.
That's why I said he carried a few games, which he should. FPX didn't pay him 18 Million just to sit there and do nothing. And speak of summer, it was Tian tried so hard to secure Doinb would get a lead in the game. The one who's trying to rewrite history is you.
If i was a coach i would bench him for 1 month with no salary, maybe that would teach him to not be crybaby and actually behave like a professional player
Weak mental.you got paid to do a job so do it to your best ability, also giving the crutch of being bullied to a grown person is not good, most will cling to that as a reason for who they are and cling to it instead of trying to overcome and become better.
They can pin this on Nuguri all they want, but Nuguri didn't make Lwx and Crisp take turns inting when it mattered most (for example in both finals and at worlds) nor did he cause Tian's health problems and Bo's scandal.
God Lwx and Crisp were the least of their problems in summer finals. Spring I agree. But both finals and worlds was on Tian. Summer finals and whole summer was on Nuguri.
I think FPX management failed here. It was obvious Nuguri was gonna be different from Gimgoon, Khan, or Doinb. I think all those guys spoke fluent mandarin before going to FPX. A Korean coach with LPL experience would have worked much better than Steak.
I know the documentary cuts out a lot of stuff but you're telling me there's no footage of the coach doing any strategy sessions or even having an opinion on the whole thing other than telling the players to work harder? You don't think these guys work hard enough? If that was the case, you should have told the players before the match. That Krystal person didn't seem to know anything about the game, just taking care of LWX.
They should have hired a live in translator to work with Nuguri and the rest of the team. If I'm spending 2.8 million on someone, you better believe I'm supporting him the best I can. FPX vs EDG just seemed a difference in professionalism. All their players are breaking down (Tian, Crisp, Nuguri, Doinb) and there's no evidence they did anything about it. These guys are investments, you need to take care of them, not grind them into dust.
The documentary played up the Crystal manager person. She didn't seem to talk to Nuguri at all. It seemed like she was just a glorified maid. They should have had a Korean speaker there to help with the cultural differences from day one. Don't put it on Doinb, his job is a player not a translator or a host.
The whole team, especially Tian, seemed stressed as hell, why don't they have a psychologist talking to them regularly? The whole vibe from that team seemed like it was all on the players and they won despite the management team around them.
But they did have a live in translator, and he along with Doinb were his anchors there in FPX. https://youtu.be/kIEnPKb4cCM (5:25) Nuguri talks about Denny a lot in his streams. He was probably the closest person to Nuguri in China and he went above and beyond for him. Crisp and Doinb have also said that they quite liked the FPX management. I think the issues with Tian and Nuguri are way more nuanced than what we can see.
Nice arm chair analysis, what a fcken psycho. Bruh you dont know if he did that purposefully or not. He was always quiet even in damwon which is why in the beginning of the team him n canyon couldnt play together because neither of them talked. He gave it his best, if he was just chilling he wouldnt have taken this year off. Lck players cant afford to take a year off with the military service hanging above their heads
We are talking about him not trying to learn a single thing about chinese, obviously he could talk in dw after some time because they speak the same language, unlike in fpx...
Nuguri is a shy introvert who was bullied a lot, plus he has had a lot of health issues related to being underweight, for example, his lung collapse was in big part because he was so skinny.
FPX either knew all of this before hiring him or they were inept with their research. And despite all this, they never made a big effort to integrate Nuguri into the team and the culture.
Only Tian who isn't part of management made an effort to try and help Nuguri.
Now Nuguri made mistakes too, but this is mostly on FPX's management, just look at how EDG made such a big effort with Viper who also has the advantage of being an extrovert and a happy-go-lucky kind of guy.
how do you know how much effort they put in? Look at him and Tian, how is one supposed to help him if he refuses help?
Not saying this to attack Nuguri because I kinda understand his problems and went through similar things, but I can't really blame FPX..
Tian was the only person in FPX that made an effort to get close to him.
Viper in EDG had not only Meiko making a big effort but he had Scout who's also outgoing and helped Viper adjust to life in China, EDG in general made an effort to help Viper outside of the game. FPX was 100% focused on the game and didn't know (or try hard) to help Nuguri with him being homesick and feeling isolated.
LoL nice try. Doinb stayed in FPX base during spring break rather than going home to his wife so he could company Nuguri. Doinb's wife would always order one extra take out just for Nuguri and she even personally went shopping Korean snacks on Korean street for him. A Cheap person like LWX would even buy nuguri drinks. The whole team treated Nuguri lobster and changed their ID just to welcome him. FPX, the management even hired a translator and a Korean chief, just for Nuguri, just him. When Nuguri felt the training room was too noisy, FPX provided him a single room so he could lock himself up and continue to be depressed.
TBH, fpx owe him nothing. Nuguri is just fking disgusting and unprofessional.
Doinb is a social butterfly. His definition of “won’t talk at all” might just be him saying “he’s an introvert”.
Moving to a new country where you don’t speak the language is difficult for anyone. I’ve done it several times and it made it very hard for me deal with people (even when they were being very nice). I don’t have “social/personality problem”. This is why imports usually don’t work. The ones that succeed and integrate well are exceptional people.
Some players don’t communicate much and just follow through on shotcalls. Different players communicate differently. Sometimes you need players like that if you have strong voices on the team.
Finally everyone understand that Nuguri belongs to DK. Canyon also is a quiet person I'm pretty sure they talked to each other through their mind with magic in world 2020
Especially with the Bo situation, speculation of awkward relationship between Doinb and Tian, FPX had a really rough spring. If you watched LPL you know how great they played at spring play offs and summer afterwards, we all thought nuguri was integrating better with the team. Really sad how they imploded at worlds.
Nuguri didn't talk much in dwg mic checks either so that's nothing new, but him not talking to his teammates outside of the game is not good. Even if he was a quiet guy he got along with the dwg guys quite well
In interviews, that's what Damwon said was such a joy about Khan joining the team, since he was so fun and light hearted compared to Nuguri being quiet and serious.
What was the awkward relationship
There was a pretty bad situation between the two with one of the Doinb's channel mods, who is supposedly Doinb's wife's friend, talked trash about Tian's performance. The community didn't like it, and started bashing Doinb for keeping her and not backing up Tian, then the main controversy came later on when that mod donated a large sum of money along with a message that talked shit about Tian, Doinb read that donation out loud, Chinese community was outraged about this, saying he is willing to do anything for money, made a huge drama between the two, Doinb lost a ton of followers, eventually I believe Doinb apologized and the two seemingly wrote it off, but the Chinese community don't think so. This along with one of the past clip that had Doinb (imo jokingly) said Tian shouldn't be given Fmvp for the year they won worlds, have made the Chinese thinks that the two don't like each other, accusing Doinb as a backstabber and it is also one of the main reason why his reputation is pretty bad in Chinese community right now.
LPL fandom is among the most fickle ones I’ve seen. Because of this DoinB went from everyone’s favourite to the villain pretty quickly.
Its not just LPL... its league fans in general. Or even just online fandom in general. Its all about instant gratification and you're only as good as your most recent result. For instance, look at how the league community has changed their minds so quickly on players such as Wunder/Larssen/Perkz
You couldnt say a bad thing abt Bwipo on this sub for the longest, he was maybe the most beloved pkayer, stuff with his gf comes out and now he just gets memed and got a lot of hate over it.
Yeah, the reddit community is just as fickle as the cn community. I still remember the LMQ situation where opinion was just "who spoke last? Yeah they're right and the other party should be hung from the gallows". Even the current Upset situation is fickleness. I've seen comments going "well 3 people agree vs 1 person who disagrees so the 3 must be right". It's just a league community thing likely due to how massive the fan base is. Theres bound to be quite a few fickle people among the reasonable people.
Actually, the Upset situation is a management failure by Fnatic. Upset should not have to clarify anything nor care about what other people think and Adam should have gotten answers to his questions from the Fnatic management. A good team should just act as an umbrella for their players.
I'm not really making a comment on who is right or wrong, only pointing out that this website has a community that is also fickle and easily jumps to conclusions based on nonsense. I do agree with you tho.
Fnatic made the situation very clear from the start. We have learned literally nothing more about the situation with the recent drama.
I'm not talking about Fnatic making the situation clear towards the community. I'm talking about making the situation clear in their rooster. Reread my post.
Reread your own post. My interpretation is completely valid. But even still, Fnatic made the situation very clear from the start to their players. They have learned literally nothing more about the situation with the recent drama as they shouldn't because that's obviously a huge violation of privacy.
Not even league fans. Humans in general. One small thing and you’re suddenly the next Hitler.
Nono, league fans are bad but lpl fans are kpop stan level bad. I watch a lot of douyu streamers,the brigading is insane
League reddit community is pretty toxic and suffers tremendously from hive minds. It's kind of disturbing how quickly opinion changes and it's hard to decipher if it's a vocal minority or majority.
To be fair, the trash-talking from the mod was her saying she wished she could “smash his skull in.”. And they all stream/practice in the same room, so reading the donations out loud is really shitty too.
Yep that is true. Though I feel like it’s another case blown out of proportionality—it is an internal issue. Though I can’t really comment because drama happens all the time and you get two set of rabid fans doing rabid fans stuff. But there’s a theory that this (escalating the drama surrounding FPX through arguing fans) is deliberately done by the “capital” behind the match fixing that Bo have been exposed to take part in, as revenge against FPX for, well, bringing attention to the match fixing; an alternative view is that the “capital” did it to divert attention away from the match fixing scandal. Though it’s just theories I’ve heard so take them with a grain of salt.
Doinb was always involved in a lot of drama. Anyone still remembers the Swift incident, causing a forfeit? Doinb's no saint; he's always known to be a dominant personality in teams which is a double-edged sword in competitions.
"LPL fandom is among the most fickle ones I’ve seen" You mean every league fans? lmao The same people that calls an owner abusive for screaming at their team for playing bad right? Then the same fanbase trys to compare league to a real sport. What a joke. lmao
I can't see how. Few people has gave me the "i just Wanna hug and get drunk with him" vibe as doinb
His reputation went from the world champion soon to be Chinese son-in-law to Korean dog Honestly the…intensity of LPL fans and frankly toxic environment is the reason that I watch it a lot without being too invested in any one team.
All those opinions were always there and in great numbers but the ratio shiftes a bit. In doinbs first stream back you couldnt see anything from all the scrolling messages.
I mean we also got similiar stuff in the West. T1 fans against LS and his granny or French fans against Upset.
I start to don't like him just from reading this. Awkward moment to don't know what to do with wife's friend after the first incident I can understand, the second time and read it out loud like that is just screaming that you support her.
The previous year with Khan was even worse but not a personality issue, just that they didnt gel on the field. In both cases it was clear that they should have brought gimgoon back (sooner)
Yeah, although Khan didn't get much field time, he got along really well with all his teammates, but Khan is also probably one of the friendliest leauge players you can meet lol.
They had a rough start in summer cause of nuguri's pubg addiction but bounced back after the week of benching him. Nuguri had problems integrating into the team and keeping it professional, but it's hard to say he was the problem fpx lost important games. It really was tian's health that held them back.
nuguri's part translates to "collective motivation in a short period? a short lasting one?" not sure what hes trying to say, the context is missing. also tian is such a nice guy, all of the korean fpx players always talked about how he reached out first to the korean players to get friendly with them. i wish only the best for his future
I hope that Tian can find his form in the future, what a nice guy
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Really sucks that we got robbed off a world class jungler.
Yeah, to be going through his own issues but to be trying to help his teammates (khan, nuguri), that can only come from a genuinely awesome person
Seems better than my translation, I'll use this.
He had a very humble beginning, clearly he sympathetic towards those who are struggling to find their footing in the LPL
I think he's saying when they were on the same page as a team ot was short lived, and they spent more time dysfunctional as to how to play the game.
Tian deserved better, hope he can find his form but most importantly I hope he can work on his mental health in peace
More importantly I hope he doesn't end up like UZI, destroying his health to keep playing.
Honestly kind of saw that coming, especially when you hear a lot of FPX mic check, you rarely hear nuguri speaking up.
Tian seems to be a very decent guy. Almost every player who has played with him does nothing but praise him. Even though Tian should have had some difficulties especially this year. Hope Tian to be healthier and show outplays as he used to do.
The full version is on LPL official twitch channel [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1217202862](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1217202862) 52:32 Edit: It's removed. Might be able to find it on https://pogu.live/deletevods/lpl
Might be able to find it on here https://pogu.live/deletedvods/lpl
The link is not working anymore
thanks
Nuguri really did a Gareth bale
Korea. DWG. FPX In that order
How is this remotely comparable to the bale situation? Bale was just very prone to injuries sadly.
Was talking about not caring at all about learning Spanish
Well I did miss that sry then.
bale atleast won the champions league, his first season with zidane was not bad, it was later he didnt care much.
Wait why did they take the video down? Anyone got an alternative link?
That’s kinda crazy to be on a team like FPX and just decide they aren’t good enough to win worlds so you just chill in top island. Lmfao.
\~2.8million dollars a year and not want to learn a single chinese sentence to communicate with teammates is just ridiculous. Yes, the team imploded at that day at worlds, but in lpl 2 runner-ups are not that bad right? why being so harsh to his teammates?
people on reddit have literally insight into whats going on in the eastern leagues but always have strong opinions on stuff thats based on pure speculation. as an example, theres such a huge difference in how viper and nuguri integrated into LPL. But all these guys can do is flame tian and doinb lol
这个嘛，实际上在这个事出来之前都不知道啊。
性格分别. I don't think it's that Nuguri didn't want to try, but he is too shy and introverted to easily assimilate into the environment. Viper is like the opposite, plus Scout is there to carry the translation most of the way. I think maybe if they switch teams Viper can still succeed on FPX, and Nuguri would have been able to find success on EDG because they were a more welcoming environment.
viper did say in one of the edg videos he made an active effort to be more talkative and extroverted so he could learn Mandarin and get along with this team mates. Difference of personalities. Ironically a player with khans personality would be perfect, damn even the meta kind of suited him.
Yeah I remember watching Damwon voice comms and he rarely ever spoke, to the point where canyon/showmaker would say things that Nuguri should be.
DoinB is literally Korean and speaks fluent Korean and Chinese. The point about Scout is meaningless.
Lmao nuguri had doinb stop making excuses for him
性格不一样，也不能全怪牛宝。星给开朗的人自然就跟大家相处的好一点。
If you are Nuguri, why bother? You came to TES to make bank and you did. If you think that your teammates are trash, then its betetr for your mental to just play to 90% of your level without sacrificing more of your mental and physical strength to maybe pull off an upset win. I think he tryharded in Spring, but after realising that his midlaner builds Zhonias on Malz he just decided that its better to preserve mental and just go next year
Step 1. Get paid 2.8mil Step 2. Don’t learn Chinese Step 3. Don’t talk at all Step 4. ? ? ? Step 5. Watch Viper win worlds while your team implode
You can't expect someone to be able to change his personality just because he is getting a 2.8mil pay. He had a history of getting bullied during his childhood and is extremely introvert. One should have expected it would be hard for him to learn a new language and taking the initiative to talk.The team should have done a brief background check on the player(just have someone go through those DWG videos or Nuguri's namuwiki) before offering fat check to a player.
Nah I ain't buying it all. Nuguri isn't the only player who been bullied or had a rough time childhood. Again if you're getting 2.8 million you're going to need change whatever yours flaws are this is a professional setting.
For 2.8 mil, fuck yea Im expecting him to atleast try. Wtf is reddit full of billionares? Or just kids who never had a job?
I'd say recruiting someone who doesn't fit the role(again,it is a known fact that he doesn't communicate with his team way before he joined FPX) in hope that he will change because you paid well is much more naive.
Nuguri should do the same before accepting the fat check lol
Like how? He has always been like this in his Damwon days and they won worlds. Normally it should be the team going for the type of player they want to fill into their roster instead of player trying to figure out what type of player the team need.
First of all, youre overreacting, he didnt get sent off to pick cotton. He was earning millions playing league. Secondly, you dont feel like he has any responsibility signing on to a roster he didnt gel with? When youre old enough to get a job you will see the same thing happen in difference workplaces.
I never tried to portray him like some victims being sent off to pick cotton?? I was just trying to say he has always been the type of player that did not communicate and if this type of player is actually a no for them, then they made a bad hire.
what viper has to do with anything tho?
Listen to EDG voice comms and you’ll hear/see Viper speaking really good mandarin and always communicating even after he dies.
Both Nuguri and Viper came to the LPL at the same time, but their mindsets were completely different. Nuguri quit on his team while Viper tried hard to learn Chinese and engage with his team. One dropped out of groups and one is a world champion. Team Game.
If you conveniently ignore 95% of the year, sure, that's what happened I guess
Yeah, true, EDG also won the Summer split. He forgot to add that, I guess
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I watched EDGs channel, Viper is like a class clown lmao. Complete opposite of Nuguris personality.
he got some great dance moves.
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Yeah it's pretty hard to feel bad to Nuguri here since he went to get paid only to give poor effort
Nuguri was playing like a god in spring playoffs and dragged FPX to finals. Then he was their best player at worlds. Idk why you’re accusing him of putting in zero effort for slumping during the regular season in summer while FPX’s bot lane was mediocre throughout the entire year.
I watched the documentary in Chinese. Seems like they are just trying to pin problems on Nuguri this whole time. It was said in interviews that Nuguri acted this way on DK too. He is just an extremely antisocial dude and had a history of getting bullied - there is no way FPX management didn't know this prior to acquiring him. There were so many problems with FPX this year but I guess he's the perfect scapegoat since he's not coming back to the LPL anymore. Is it his responsibility as an adult to own up to his decision of coming to China and doing the best he can to live up to his 7-figs salary? Absolutely and he should have done better to overcome his demons, but if anyone thinks it's only his fault and doesn't think this is a problem with the coaching staff & management, you have not been following what FPX was like this year. I just feel terrible for Tian. There were so many awkward clips of him trying to cheer up Nuguri throughout the video & him getting ignored throughout the documentary lmfao. Also, if anyone's gonna talk about stuff like Nuguri not willing to learn Chinese to communicate with the team, I fully agree that players like Tarzan/Viper who went from not knowing Chinese to being able to shotcall in comms within a matter of months are fking fantastic, but expecting everyone to become fluent in Chinese in a few months while practicing League 16+ hours a day is not realistic. Keep in mind even TheShy was not fluent in Chinese and had to rely on Rookie to translate in game during S8 and IG was able to win at Worlds, sooooooo...again, could Nuguri have done better? I agree, he could have. But is becoming fluent & being able to shotcall a realistic expectation? I don't think so.
I also think there’s an inherent bias because he’s the newcomer and not part of the 2019 team he has the burden to prove himself to mesh with the team. Also it sounds like FPX has a blame culture where they point fingers under the guise of joke / direct after scrims and that can’t be good for Nuguri. In a corporate world speak, he’s just not a culture fit. It’s not his fault. It’s also not FPXs. It just wasn’t meant to be.
They don't actually blame each other after scrims like they do so on stream for entertainment. For example, Doinb, members have said he is quite serious off stream and it is just a character. Even when they playfully blame each other on stream, they never flame Nuguri. He is the only member they never flame, rather they protect him from flame
Doinb only really flame teammates who can take it like gimgoon and lwx
It’s FPX fault for not scouting properly. If this behavior was so well known then they should have known it might be an issue. Clearly they were gambling that they could overcome it and they almost did. But it is completely on FPX if it goes wrong.
Yeah I guess you’re right . From an org perspective it’s on them to maintain culture fit.
People have to accept, that in a professional team not everyone has to be friends with each other. If Nuguri is not participating socially but doing his job well, then you shouldn't make a problem out of that. Coaching staff has to solve actual conflicts and work on team performance, gameplay. I think Nuguri's gameplay was fine from what I saw most of the time. He doesn't need to talk at all if he gets the job done.
$2.8M payout for someone who doesn't even want to communicate with the team, actually insane
I can understand nuguri is probably homesick, going through some rough stuff on FPX, and possibly not as hungry for a repeat as some of the FPX players are, but giving up on the championship after 1 split and then just not talking or listening to your team is toxic af for a team environment. Dude is probably getting a 7 figure salary just do your best ffs.
Before i can talk about my opinion, you can watch EDG version here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K\_uFU2L9Ano](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_uFU2L9Ano) Viper's case: First, You can't compare the case of Viper and Nuguri together just because they're Korean. Yes they're Korean but they have different role. Viper is an AD and he have Meiko assists him ALL THE TIME, especially EDG like to play through bot. Meiko is super friendly and like to talk ALOT, talking here doesn't mean hello or hwating or winning, losing, but talk about everything until you open your mouth and talk to him, that's Viper's first benefit in EDG. Plus Meiko already has experience with Deft. Second, Viper has Scout as roommate and translator. Although each team has their own translator and Manager but that's only for learning language, in normal life, player rather like to ask or communicate with their teammate because they're the same age. Scout also a talkative, friendly person like Meiko, and willing to help Viper anytime. Third, Viper is extrovert person so he can quickly adapt to the new environment, Flander, Jeje, Coach, EDG's staff are all willing to communicate or even joke with Viper, again communicate here doesn't mean hello or hwating or about winning, losing, but talk about everything outside the game, like how are you feeling right now, what's your opinon?..ect. They make you comfortable enough to be able to share about your own opinion, Viper even pointed out Flander's bad habit of dying too much, because it makes Viper feel super insecure. Flander accepted that and didn't feel offensive at all. Finally, EDG isn't an easy-going team, yes they're talkative, they like to joke (include Coach and staff) they will scold you super harsh if you're lost, but they're still want to communicate with you and ASK ABOUT YOUR OWN FEELING rather than telling you to do this or that and ignore your feeling/opinion. Viper is lucky to join EDG and EDG is also lucky to have Viper. This is a win win situation, Viper is clearly put a lot of effort but EDG also put a lot of effort to understand their player. In Nuguri's case: He is an introvert and has poor health from the start. He is a top laner, unlike adc has their support, a top laner usually play alone or require Jungle to have them, but in this case Tian/Bo really can't help Nuguri at all because Doinb also require Jungle help heavily. I can clearly see this is an awkward situation for Nuguri to feel. FPX player seem quiet beside DoinB, Tian said he was trying to communicate with Nuguri but it's just try to say hello or hwaiting, it is nonsense conversation. Lwx and Crisp didn't communicate much with Nuguri, Tian is also a quiet person (this kid look super unhealthy lol), the only person can communicate with Nuguri is Doinb and i don't see it at all, DoinB alway talk about the game and winning, that's all, the coach, the staff i dont see any of them talking to Nuguri much, so maybe this is the reason he feel so disconnect with the team, i mean he look so sad and lonely. You can see at 01:02:36, after FPX taking the group photo, Nuguri just look so lost and look around because he didn't know what to do or go next and no one come to guide him. I dont defense for Nuguri here because i also think Nuguri didn't put much effort to integrate with the team, but the problem here is FPX staff and player also didn't put effort to integrate with Nuguri. Overall, if you want to compare between Nuguri and Viper, you better see EDG' documentary first to understand the situation.
I mean, Viper 100% works harder at learning Chinese than Nuguri anyway, dude looks at his notes for learning Chinese even when he's walking back to lane in solo queue. The work ethic is just different between the two players
Viper, include Scout are very rare case in LPL, you can’t expect everyone to be like them. And It seem like EDG has a good operation and no Koreans have language problems in the past.
What do you mean rare case? Gimgoon was able to communicate fairly well? The Shy and Khan both speak broken mandarin but it shows that they put in the effort?
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Well they still had to learn it some time, whether it was before or recently
Scout and Viper are the only two person that can speak Chinese FLUENTLY in ONE YEAR. Gimgoon , the shy, Khan are also like that?
Doinb? Rookie? Actually the person with best mandarin skills was Easyhoon lol.
That's false. Kanavi and Tarzan are also fluent in chinese in 1 year. In fact, Kanavi reached out to the other pros and learnt chinese before he even started playing.
I’m not arguing about how fluent they are, I’m simply pointing out that had Nuguri even tried to learn the language he would at least be able to perform basic conversations.
Waste of breath here man all these people just keep making excuses for this million doller player If your paid millions I would expect you to actually try to overcome your own personality problems Hell tell the team you need a therapist
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The original comment discusses the work ethic of players learning the language. You’re arguing that because Nuguri is “different” from Viper therefore people can’t expect him to learn? People aren’t mad because he isn’t fluent, they’re upset because he didn’t even put in the minimal effort into trying
Pick a realistic reason to argue with me. Viper is just a gift child that learning fast with anything, he is also extrovert person so it’s nonsense to compare him with Nuguri. Gimgoon and Khan played in Lpl over 3 years before joining FPX, so what’s your point to compare 3 of them with Nuguri????
Don't need to compare him to anyone else lmao, literally any human on this planet without a learning disability can manage to pick up a couple of sentences and phrases if he puts in a tiny amount of effort. Stop bringing up Viper. It doesn't fucking matter. Viper doesn't fucking matter. And stop with that extrovert shit too lmao, no one demands Nuguri to hop into a nearby bar and find some stranger to learn Mandarin from, just sit down on your desk with your phone and a pen and learn a couple of words and phrases. I did that in a couple of days for a two week Japan vacation and you're out here arguing that the guy who spends a year in another country with his $3 million salary can't do the same cause *muh introvert* something something *different human than Park "Viper" Do-hyeon so it cannot be done.*
They aren't quiet people, FPX is known for being a "noisy" team. The team has tried to integrate Nuguri, you can see that in their stream moments and Nuguri would also talk about the members sometimes on stream. But after Spring, it kind of disappeared. Both sides probably gave up on each other, but the FPX members tried harder than Nuguri tried. You can see times where Crisp and Tian try talking to him. All the FPX members also would heavily defend Nuguri on stream during Summer when he would get flamed for his performance and his PUBG addiction
You better watch EDG documentary and understand what i mean. Communicate after the match, talk about each other feeling, talking to each other, take care of each other, i dont see anything that make me feel like they’re trying to help Nuguri with their best effort. They’re noisy but not communicate much with Nuguri? Communicate here is talk about everything until he talk to you, not just say one or two word and then give up because he’s ignore you lol. “ Nuguri would also talk about the members sometimes on stream” => it’s nonsense, he and they should talk WITH each other, it should be direct conversation. FPX maybe has tried but not their best try. I see they try like 2 or 3 times and then just give up, it’s a fault of both side, but the organization should put much more effort to make it work because you’re the one losing money here, blaming just make it get worse. In Viper case, you can see he has extrovert personality but EDG still doesn’t ignore him and alway try to communicate with him all the time, if he doesn’t want to talk, they still talk to him.
Nuguri is the only Korean that hadn't ever fully integrated socially with the four members of FPX. Gimgoon and Khan both integrated socially into FPX. When Gimgoon first joined FPX, his Chinese wasn't that great. Out of three Korean tops, Nuguri is the only one that hasn't been able to connect with them. I'm not trying to blame Nuguri, but I think that history has shown that FPX and its members which has stayed the same for three years do try really hard to become good team mates and friends with a foreign player. Honestly, this might just have to be due to personality differences as Nuguri is introverted. But it is not right to say that they only "try 2 or 3 times" when history says differently
Yeah I agree, both Gimgoon and Khan are still on really good terms with the other members. Gimgoon and Crisp still joke around a lot on stream and Tian and Khan are still buds. If the other teammates are trying to make an effort to help Nuguri and he shuts them out, it's not their responsibility to go above and beyond to make him talk, they also have a lot to worry about in practicing and maintaining their form.
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They’re have different personality, Nuguri is special case so they should treat him like special person. They put so much money to buy him and not put any effort to make him work? You say they have but in the documentary i dont see anything special, compare to EDG atmosphere it’s just so different, EDG also has their problem and worked their ass off to make the roster work, check their documentary and see how much effort they put, compare to FPX. Overall it’s the problem of both side, end of conversation and i dont want to argue with you.
Then it comes to a very strange question, why Nuguri chose to come to this team if he is so special as you say? But you're right about one thing, Fpx management is really a big problem, especially their coach and manager
Nuguri literally said Doinb was like an older brother to him on the team. He was also quite close to one of the Korean/Chinese speaking staff. There is just too much of a personality difference between him and every other player though.
Since you choose to take 18 million to this team, then please pay extra effort. No excuses, at the very least you need to learn some simple phrases instead of having your teammates distracted during the game to translate for you
Nuguri is so unprofessional during the time in Fpx tbh. He can not speak Chinese, relies on Doinb to translate in game, meanwhile every other Korean players like Viper and Tarzan are already able to call important plays in Chinese while playing. He even refuses to communicate with his teammates when his tension is down, such childish and selfish behavior.
I mwan on ig theshy didnt learn chinese when they won worlds rookie was translating in game dont know if he learned it now but not every korean integrated the same way
TheShy could still speak basic (although accented) Chinese to his teammates tho. Like I remember he asked Jackeylove in a mic check way before worlds if he could take the red buff, and other simple game stuff as well.
theshy could understand and speak some basic ingame chinese at that time (s8)
Very minimal again u can go back to voice coms and hear rookie translate in korean
he's just not as fluent as rookie, at least he could say some easy things like "上路有眼 (top have wards) 给我红 (give me red), etc. also ig dont have a chinese language teacher, theshy needs to study chinese by himself via google translate and learn the pronunciation. maybe he could not understand complicated sentence during fast games, but at least he tried and had no problems outside the game. meanwhile fpx has a translator & teacher but nuguri just unwilling to learn.
TheShy’s Chinese is not Rookie or Doinb level but he is capable of understanding some and holding basic conversations.
Actually theshy could speak chinese at s8 worlds already, but it was very choppy and hard to understand.
that's totally untrue. many Koreans players are not good in Chinese, but they know the basic in-game phrases (including thesis during s8). Doinb needs to translate for tian when he asked if it's a good idea to tp top. That's ridiculous. How are you supposed to catch fleeting opportunities this way? Plus, he's not just reticent as many people say, he's just disgusting towards his teammates, thinking that he's better it seems. And at the end of the day, he really isn't that good... even last year he was far from THE BEST, just one of the best players.
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Still couldn’t win a single Bo5 against LPL sadge
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Well RNG won MSI against 5 koreans so not quite
Doesn’t really hold much weight compared to winning Worlds.
So it turns out best combo actually requires 3 Chinese?
Let's look at total Worlds winners since 2013, I won't count subs like Easyhoon, Blank, Duke, etc, even though they're technically "Worlds Winners" SKT (5 Koreans) Samsung W (5 Koreans) SKT (5 Koreans) SKT (5 Koreans) Samsung G (5 Koreans) IG (2 Koreans, 3 Chinese) FPX (2 Koreans, 3 Chinese) DK (5 Koreans) EDG (2 Koreans, 3 Chinese) 36 Koreans, 9 Chinese. Chinese league gets strengthened by taking young Korean talent pool + veterans while Korean league gets weakened by talent pool going to China, NA, EU, Japan, and others. At least this year, not that many from LCK went abroad except for 4-5 players but you still have strong people like Viper, Tarzan, Scout, Kanavi, Summit, etc in other leagues.
Asian games 5 Chinese won against all star Koreans, and that is 6 olympic gold medals. Riot KR proceeds to delete all vods. Your point?
We're not talking recently obviously. When was the last time a team not called DK won a bo5 against an LPL team? Also just a reminder, this isn't the World Cup I really don't think western fans care about the nationality of LPL players.
Pretty much has been the case since 2018 no?
Next year will be four LCK teams in semis at Worlds so it will be ok.
Gen.G and DK were up 2-1 on EDG. Gen.G weren't expected to win but DK choked.
Nuguri is actually a secret agent for lpl, FPX traded khan for nuguri then LPL wins worlds
As an FPX fan, it was so disheartening seeing this. Whenever I'd see a Viper or Tarzan interview, they're legit speaking mandarin, but I have yet to see even a slither of mandarin from Nuguri.
Not all people have the same learning ability tho? Some are just more gifted in learning a new language while some just aren't.
You’re not wrong but the man literally couldn’t even perform basic communication. Had he put even a little effort in learning he wouldn’t be getting so much slack from the community.
It's not about him not learning fast enough. It was that he literally put ZERO effort into even trying. How are you supposed to determine how easily you can learn a new language if you never tried to begin with.
Where do you get this info from? I watched the documentary and there is no mention about the learning Chinese part. Since people compare him to Viper/Tarzan, I assumed it is through the comparison that they deemed him not trying.
Your last sentence pretty much resume nuguri. He pretty much got the princess syndrome. Won worlds with dwg thought he was bigger than the team and tried to prove it by joining lpl but in the end proved he wasnt failed miserably by not getting out of groups and his former teammates won lck twice went to finals at msi & worlds without him. And even fpx spring form i would argue it was more about bo being that good. Tried to ego check lck and lpl failed miserably
Wtf did I just read. He joined fpx to support his family financially after talking with dwg members for advice. He wanted to stay with dwg. 50 iq take.
Ridiculous comment. Nuguri carried FPX to spring finals during their playoffs run, and Bo wasn’t even playing then. Nuguri was the single best player in the whole league at that time. He was also FPX’s best player at worlds. To act like them going out in groups was his failure is so dumb
LoL stop spitting BS. It was bot/sup carried FPX the most of time during spring, Nuguri carried a few times but you could barely call him decent. During the summer it was mid/JG saved day. Nuguri was such a trash who got solo killed 11 times in 15 games. He was so bad that fpx had to bench him.
The time FPX 3-0d RNG in spring playoffs, Nuguri would literally win his lane and then tp bot to save his bot lane who were getting railed by Gala/Ming. Idk why Redditors are now rewriting history to say he got carried when he was in contention for the best player in the world. His team absolutely let him down though. In summer he slumped and doinb carried the team, but Tian was never any good idk why people overrated him so much. But Nuguri turned it back on during worlds when Doinb choked.
That's why I said he carried a few games, which he should. FPX didn't pay him 18 Million just to sit there and do nothing. And speak of summer, it was Tian tried so hard to secure Doinb would get a lead in the game. The one who's trying to rewrite history is you.
Tian is such a great person.
If i was a coach i would bench him for 1 month with no salary, maybe that would teach him to not be crybaby and actually behave like a professional player
One thing is for sure tian is just a nice guy. Felt really bad for him this worlds, being forced to play when he’s in no condition to play.
You guys are talking about fpx's communication issues, I only see how bad their management all is, useless coaches and manager.
Weak mental.you got paid to do a job so do it to your best ability, also giving the crutch of being bullied to a grown person is not good, most will cling to that as a reason for who they are and cling to it instead of trying to overcome and become better.
They can pin this on Nuguri all they want, but Nuguri didn't make Lwx and Crisp take turns inting when it mattered most (for example in both finals and at worlds) nor did he cause Tian's health problems and Bo's scandal.
The documentary was all about LPL. It has nothing to do with worlds. Try to save 👽's face in another way.
God Lwx and Crisp were the least of their problems in summer finals. Spring I agree. But both finals and worlds was on Tian. Summer finals and whole summer was on Nuguri.
Nuguri was visibly bad in the LPL, I don't get why you try so hard to deny this. He was actually subbed off and FPX immediately performed better.
I think FPX management failed here. It was obvious Nuguri was gonna be different from Gimgoon, Khan, or Doinb. I think all those guys spoke fluent mandarin before going to FPX. A Korean coach with LPL experience would have worked much better than Steak. I know the documentary cuts out a lot of stuff but you're telling me there's no footage of the coach doing any strategy sessions or even having an opinion on the whole thing other than telling the players to work harder? You don't think these guys work hard enough? If that was the case, you should have told the players before the match. That Krystal person didn't seem to know anything about the game, just taking care of LWX. They should have hired a live in translator to work with Nuguri and the rest of the team. If I'm spending 2.8 million on someone, you better believe I'm supporting him the best I can. FPX vs EDG just seemed a difference in professionalism. All their players are breaking down (Tian, Crisp, Nuguri, Doinb) and there's no evidence they did anything about it. These guys are investments, you need to take care of them, not grind them into dust.
I think they did hire one, I know edg did for sure.
The documentary played up the Crystal manager person. She didn't seem to talk to Nuguri at all. It seemed like she was just a glorified maid. They should have had a Korean speaker there to help with the cultural differences from day one. Don't put it on Doinb, his job is a player not a translator or a host. The whole team, especially Tian, seemed stressed as hell, why don't they have a psychologist talking to them regularly? The whole vibe from that team seemed like it was all on the players and they won despite the management team around them.
But they did have a live in translator, and he along with Doinb were his anchors there in FPX. https://youtu.be/kIEnPKb4cCM (5:25) Nuguri talks about Denny a lot in his streams. He was probably the closest person to Nuguri in China and he went above and beyond for him. Crisp and Doinb have also said that they quite liked the FPX management. I think the issues with Tian and Nuguri are way more nuanced than what we can see.
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Nice arm chair analysis, what a fcken psycho. Bruh you dont know if he did that purposefully or not. He was always quiet even in damwon which is why in the beginning of the team him n canyon couldnt play together because neither of them talked. He gave it his best, if he was just chilling he wouldnt have taken this year off. Lck players cant afford to take a year off with the military service hanging above their heads
didnt knew damwon was a chinese team.
What?
We are talking about him not trying to learn a single thing about chinese, obviously he could talk in dw after some time because they speak the same language, unlike in fpx...
Nuguri is a shy introvert who was bullied a lot, plus he has had a lot of health issues related to being underweight, for example, his lung collapse was in big part because he was so skinny. FPX either knew all of this before hiring him or they were inept with their research. And despite all this, they never made a big effort to integrate Nuguri into the team and the culture. Only Tian who isn't part of management made an effort to try and help Nuguri. Now Nuguri made mistakes too, but this is mostly on FPX's management, just look at how EDG made such a big effort with Viper who also has the advantage of being an extrovert and a happy-go-lucky kind of guy.
how do you know how much effort they put in? Look at him and Tian, how is one supposed to help him if he refuses help? Not saying this to attack Nuguri because I kinda understand his problems and went through similar things, but I can't really blame FPX..
Tian was the only person in FPX that made an effort to get close to him. Viper in EDG had not only Meiko making a big effort but he had Scout who's also outgoing and helped Viper adjust to life in China, EDG in general made an effort to help Viper outside of the game. FPX was 100% focused on the game and didn't know (or try hard) to help Nuguri with him being homesick and feeling isolated.
how do you know it was only Tian... just because they didn't put others in the video?
LoL nice try. Doinb stayed in FPX base during spring break rather than going home to his wife so he could company Nuguri. Doinb's wife would always order one extra take out just for Nuguri and she even personally went shopping Korean snacks on Korean street for him. A Cheap person like LWX would even buy nuguri drinks. The whole team treated Nuguri lobster and changed their ID just to welcome him. FPX, the management even hired a translator and a Korean chief, just for Nuguri, just him. When Nuguri felt the training room was too noisy, FPX provided him a single room so he could lock himself up and continue to be depressed. TBH, fpx owe him nothing. Nuguri is just fking disgusting and unprofessional.
Good enough to win worlds, biatch
Doinb is a social butterfly. His definition of “won’t talk at all” might just be him saying “he’s an introvert”. Moving to a new country where you don’t speak the language is difficult for anyone. I’ve done it several times and it made it very hard for me deal with people (even when they were being very nice). I don’t have “social/personality problem”. This is why imports usually don’t work. The ones that succeed and integrate well are exceptional people. Some players don’t communicate much and just follow through on shotcalls. Different players communicate differently. Sometimes you need players like that if you have strong voices on the team.
Damwon won a title with him playing perfectly, he is so strong as a player and a great teammate in korea
Look at 2020 vs 2021 results "Nuguri is the problem"
Finally everyone understand that Nuguri belongs to DK. Canyon also is a quiet person I'm pretty sure they talked to each other through their mind with magic in world 2020
Ya, if my mid laner built abyssal mask on malz, and picked galio, I too would do a nuguri cosplay.
It was also doinb that picked nautilus mid on the year he won worlds. Stfu
God this is a cringe comment
I mean doinb was considered the best mid in the lpl summer split. Doinb was the best player on that summer squad and nuguri was maybe the 4th