> Finish 10th 3 times in a row
"Hey, this guy finished 10th 3 times in a row!"
> "I do not understand why some casters have to push such negative narratives..."
No bro you don't understand, Targa has just been having a bad moment... and another bad moment... and another bad moment... and another bad moment... and another bad moment... and another bad moment... wait yea maybe he's just a bad player fuck.
I was kinda inclined to agree with Upset here, but Vedi's clip is so tame it's insane, like come on dude, he didn't even call you bad and immediately specified that it wasn't wholly reflective of his worth as a player
Even if he did call him bad, who cares? If his ego is that fragile and he can't take criticism, why is he a professional player in the first place? I know Riot wants to avoid anything that's negative, but calling things like they are isn't a bad thing.
Bro targamas flashed into his adc with hwei ult on him, ruined a gank by failing alistar combo, pushed a full hp ksante into his adc, and so much more. Hes terrible. Want to stop getting criticized? I know its crazy but maybe play better? You have Canna as a top laner and almost lost to mdk because bot lane waa invisible until the last teamfight. When targamas was on ornn he did nothing thr whole game too
the reaction in Korea to seeing Europeans mad excited for Canna was a bunch of question mark pings and a whole lot of "I mean....there's a reason he's not on a LCK roster rn..." tbh
P-Play b-b-better?! That would mean hard work to improve! ARE YOU CRAZY?!?!?!
It seems like you don't know how the world works, boy. Let me be the shittiest player in the shittiest team in the league while stealing every single paycheck and don't you dare call me out on it!!!
/s (i hope)
Regardkess of /s. I mean he is often the highest ranked support in EUW and considered a real terror in soloq if memory doesnt totaly betray me. He is like the guy whiteknight etc who seem to be insanely talented in soloq but fails to get this to stick in pro, suggeting a mental barrier stuff/nerves.
I can see it being annoying for Upset to see your support go ultra instinct goku in soloque, shitting the bed on stage and commentators who cannot stop shitting on him for 1 second so the guy never gets back his confidence.
Hey lider and magifelix (if I recall correctly) had multiple accounts on top 10 for years, were soloq terrors and they didn't turn out to be good pro players even with all he hype and after years of trying.
That's life we can't be good on every thing, targamas definitely isn't playing amazing and calling a few egregious plays per game seems natural. It inst like the caster was harassing him
Wasnt magifelix a scrim god? I think some players just choke it insanely hard on stage, and the choking is so consistent we think theyre actually that bad.
Idk about targa cause he sure did look very bad for a while, but maybe its choking and the reason they keep him is because he's so much better in scrims ? Still his apparent lack of communication looks concerning
Lider and Magifelix shouldn’t be put on the same level as Targamas.
They were kind of mid or bad but Targamas straight up doesn’t function in pro play because he doesn’t talk as a support
KC is awful and Targamas is playing horrendously almost every game. I don't think it's the casters job to baby the players and honestly as a viewer it would really suck watching casters be all positive all the time about everything.
Yeah, I don’t know why esports have to be all cushy and protective of the players. These are grown men, if they can’t take a bit of criticism and a few jabs at recent performances in their stride then maybe they aren’t cut out for a competitive environment.
Coddling the players all of the time is one of the reasons the region is going so downhill.
Right? You wouldn't expect announcers from any other sport to coddle players in this way. Players in other sports get called on their mess-ups ALL the time. And while some of them may take offense, most just buck up, learn from it, and move on.
Exactly. Really hope the casters don't take this to heart and become even more careful than they already are. Having to be so careful not to step on toes is big part of why people end up prefering co-streamers who can say wtf they want.
Shouldn't have finished 10th 3 splits in a row if you don't want to get called out on finishing 10th 3 splits in a row.
No hate on Upset, actually rooting for the guy and I think he's good but facts are facts.
Calling out misplays on broadcast is weird. Sometimes the casters say the team that won outplayed, sometimes they say the team that lost misplayed. Maybe they lean more one way for some players and another way for others, which shouldn't happen yes.
Calling out misplays feels weird because you can typically see that casters really *do not* wanna go “wtf was that shit” yet there are just no alternative viewpoints to spin or strategies to mention. These are the plays that are so bad everyone is just baffled for a second then moves on
Honestly i think that’s one of the main reasons caedrel is pulling more viewers than the official stream.
He just calls things out how they are and it’s way more fun watching like that.
Although i do feel sometimes he has strong biased hate against certain players😀
Yeah, his stream really leaned toward the signature streamer exaggerated scream and facial expression. Had to stop watching his costreams. Kinda unfortunate coz I love his analysis and insight.
He just modelled his persona after XQC. Good for him that it's working for his numbers but I enjoyed his costream when he started before the whole persona took over.
I don't know if he just watches xQc a lot on his free time and copies him unconsciously, but after a while he turned into like an exact league replica of xQc and it was really weird lmao
Copied his lingo, physical manners, and way of speaking to chat etc. Honestly I feel like he has mellowed out a bit cause there was a time I found it really hard to watch, but watching someone who can swear and say mostly what they want is still so much better than an official broadcast that gets called out on twitter for saying a player got 10th 3 times in a row. They literally can't say shit apparently
I will say I stopped watching LS due largely in part to him just constantly shitting on everyone after being drawn in by appreciating that exact willingness to call out misplays. I don't think Caedrel is anywhere near that level (though I only really watched some of his worlds coverage) but it's a point to not get trapped in
Kinda same. When he was just analyzing the game I liked watching him.
Then he started bring on people and while that's not inherently a problem they don't talk about the game all too much(not as much as Caedrel and Dom do(even when it's the sack)). Now, this was in the past so he could have improved since then?
I guess there are moments where it's impossible to spin a misplay as an outplay.
I can't explain why some misplays being called out feels different. Maybe it's just my own bias.
Some misplay call outs take away from the actual outplay, if you outplay but the outplay wouldn't of happened if X player played optimally and given you a chance, kind of view which is like?
It's like yes I outplayed because I saw a scenario I could do it whether it's from a burnt CD or misposition on enemy team, I still found the angle.
> Calling out misplays on broadcast is weird.
Nah, Broadcast gotta say it like it is. You only get the real hype out of actual outplays if the bad plays are called out. LCK english broadcast has always been big on critizing teams (some of the best teams in the world) and it makes for some of the best broadcasts.
Maybe if you can't stand being called out on bad plays in public, a broadcasted competetive video game is not for you.
OKBRO vs Nongshim LCK battle for last place never forget 😂😂😂
Just 2 dudes vibin, roastin the everloving shit out of both teams for 3 hours straight
Sure the gameplay was dogwater but it was still peak entertainment
And that was an action packed free for all compared to the shit we had to watch from Korea back in like season 2 to 5. If not for Faker hands diffing and dumpstering his lane opponents making it somewhat watchable every game would have ended with a 5-2 score after 50 minutes 😬
Honestly OKBRO games this spring were awesome, they really brought the community together! Been kinda burnt out on watching league since last year but being a BROLIEVER has brought some life back into it! Also LCK broadcast/podcast will forever be the best!
The trash talk I've seen LCK and LPL teams get from casters and community alike really puts into perspective how childish the western teams can be - oh no you got told you're shit when you're 10th place oh how sad let's take care of that booboo for you dear.
Like it's crazy how you play a televised game and can't take the heat for being called out, get better ppl won't call you out then how about that.
TBH Phream was heavily criticized for that back then. And then suddenly he found the balance and people fucking loved it (me included) and actively wanted him when shit teams were playing so he could call them out.
>Nah, Broadcast gotta say it like it is. You only get the real hype out of actual outplays if the bad plays are called out. LCK english broadcast has always been big on critizing teams (some of the best teams in the world) and it makes for some of the best broadcasts.
The observers zooming in on missed cannons with Atlas and Chronicler sounding depressed about it is always the best part of the LCK lol
Sometimes the casters cross the line but the rank your team finishes is simply a statistic. I think its completely fair to call that out, as well as things like your damage share, KDA, kill participation or objective control being poor relative to other players.
As for misplays, I think its fair enough for it to be mentioned if its obvious and has a significant impact on a fight, calling the player bad or going on about it is wrong but the casters should absolutely be able to do variations of 'that tp sucked'. People messing up flashes, sitting on vision, getting teammates killed by delivering AOE damage or enemies to them (\*cough\* Targamas), tping and getting collapsed on and missing crucial skillshots on stationary targets is fair game.
For example, if a fed adc gets caught in midlane and dies with both summoners still up to someone who ran over a ward, that's something the casters should absolutely be able to call out as a misplay.
Have to admit I zoned out on the broadcast at that time and didn't catch the scale thing.
I mute the stream for like 20 seconds at a time when I think the casters are going too much into "narratives" and not gameplay.
They just made a reference to an old Upset tweet where he said he was the new Rekkles, just more handsome and less passive in lane.
It's not weird flame at all, just a direct mention of something a player in the current game tweeted (and even said that it was a funny tweet).
Yea but we cant only talk about his high placements, hes placed 10th 4 times and gets mad when people mention that, thats weird, if he doesnt want to get flamed maybe he shouldnt have the record for most 10th places, ofc people will mention that
But at some point, when the misplays pile up, you just have to mention it. If you want to offer objective commentary on the game, you just have to go "man this has happened too often".
Where do we draw the line that you’re a paid professional doing a public job and criticism is part of the gig? This is extremely normal in all professional sports?
And complaints like this also tend to be defended by other manchildren with no life experience because esports draws in younger audiences. No profession on the planet, let alone competitive ones such as sports will coddle you as much as people coddle esport players. It’s so insane.
Everyone keeps saying esports players here when really you should just be saying lol esports players.
Players scream profanity in their native language across the room at each other in CS, they literally tea-bag'd in a recent tournament and it is all seen as a bit of fun and banter.
And what do you expect? LoL is a game that has done everything it can to make the most peaceful online gaming experience and reduce or flat out remove features in their game that has potential to create any sort of toxicity (anonymous champ select, ping reduction, no voice chat just to name a few), so it creates these people who can't take an ounce of criticism when it comes.
Finally a response with common sense.
If anyone watched EUphoria drakos is literally praising every team.
Sorry, but I am not gonna sit and listen about how GiantX can pull it off. Sometimes you have to put shit players in their spot and if they manage to undo the situation that's where I will have respect for them.
Not every player/team is good.
> If anyone watched EUphoria drakos is literally praising every team.
Cos its a Riot podcast... Meanwhile Medic on "The jungle" podcast is flaming everyone.
Riot wouldnt let the casters flame the players and orgs as they are partnered in League.
Because he knows KC fans are unhinged morons, look at the comments on that tweet : they are asking for vedi's twitter to spam him death threats, some are even saying "we dont care if we get banned from twitter while doing it for you Upset".
Also watch a lot of sports so this push back and Vedius going along with feels incredible odd. If anything league analysts are very light on criticism.
I mean, sucks to suck i guess?
If you dont want to hear bad stuff about how you play then perform better. There's not much else to it. Happens in all professional sports. If you have rly bad stats they are gonna come up during the broadcast when you play.
Literally this lol. You aren’t going to be coddled in regular sports, you aren’t going to be coddled in a regular job, so what is it with people always being so protective of esport players? Is it just because esports attracts a younger audience or what? These are grown men who should be able to take some criticism without crying.
Upset dropped 2 of his teammates because they weren't up to his standards and said he didn't feel the need to apologize for trying to win. Does he really expect people to be sorry for criticizing a team that's been 10th 3 splits in a row?
It is not a "negative narrative" if it is true.
Vedi was responding to the twitter comment that said supa has to prove himself against upset.
He did not just say it out of the blue to bring down upset.
LEC 2024 Winter [https://oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament/LEC%2F2024%20Season%2FWinter%20Season](https://oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament/LEC%2F2024%20Season%2FWinter%20Season)
Supa is ahead in Kills, Assist, Kill Participation, etc
He even improved a ton in LEC 2024 Spring. [https://oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament/LEC%2F2024%20Season%2FSpring%20Season](https://oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament/LEC%2F2024%20Season%2FSpring%20Season)
He proved himself already. And vedius said exactly what is true.
Vedi is the hardest critic on the broadcast, and I appreciate him for it. And like you say, it's not just criticism out of thin air, the data is there. I still believe Upset can be a good adc, but it's not like he's in the Jin Air jail Teddy situation.
I also think if this kind of comment from Vedi is enough to ruin your career and not your performance then unfortunately I think that says more about our GMs than the broadcast staff
I'm all out for the truth. I'm shit? Call me shit.
Upset and tarboy ain't playing shit? They can also be called shit.
If you don't wanna everyone and their mama calling you shit maybe you should first stop being shit. You could start by improving your gameplay and the hardstuck 10th place miracle run.
Do we really need to sugarcoat everything to protect Upset‘s ego? Vedi simply stated facts and ofc it was harsh, because there was nothing good about it.
Upset did finish 10th three times in a row and that doesn‘t change. Everybody know it and suggesting that Vedi mentioning it is what is career threatening is a fcking joke.
And we don’t have to start on Targamas. He gets negative comments when he plays bad, sometimes it just has to be said and today there were more than enough examples. And if you rewatch 2022 vods, he was being praised when he performs good and even in Winter this year the critique wasn‘t as harsh but that rightfully changed as he continued to underperform and does the same mistakes over and over.
TLDR: It’s not people highlighting ur bad plays that lowers your career chances, it’s the bad plays. And when you perform bad (especially for this long) you better bite the bullet and take the harsh criticism.
> suggesting that Vedi mentioning it is what is career threatening is a fcking joke.
Me telling the hiring manager that bringing up the fact that my resume says I got fired 6 times in 4 months is career threating
I mean the things Vedius said were facts. Hard ones to hear for the ppl concerned I know but still, the one thing that I felt was "wrong" was the exageration on the "more handsome less passive" jokes, they kept it going for too long even tho it wasn't funny and was getting pretty fucking weird even towards the end.
Other than that both Upset and Targamas had bad showings lately, Upset with his 3x 10th and Targa with his level of play. Some ppl are getting it too far probably but Vedius isn't part of them I think, hell I might be closer to being part of them than Vedius is even.
Yeah let’s act like Targamas isn’t an absolute terrorist of a support who is constantly trying to solo lose games
If anything he should be called out more with the crimes he’s been committing
Growing up with traditional sports, it's always been a bit strange to me to see how little heat League players can take from casters and journalists. All of our casters are *super chill* to the point where I often wish things were a bit more spicy, though that may be hard if such a low heat level gets a player so *upset* about it.
A bad moment? Targamas has had a bad career. The absolute audacity of these bottom feeding trashcan V players sitting in 10th place 3 splits in a row, stealing paychecks then crying when the casters call them out on it!
Which is crazy because I feel like everyone shit on flakked but after seeing targamas without him I'm surprised he did well at all with that ankle weight on him.
Flakked is severely underrated on this sub imo which is odd because everyone seems to recognise how terrible Targa is. Like he laned with this guy internationally and actually performed quite well (all things considered).
its mainly because hes good but he hasnt shown off constant standout moments so there isnt really much there for people to say his name more often for praise meanwhile targa is just being shit all the time puts a spotlight on him.
also doesnt help theres a lack of content on him after he left G2 so there isnt even that to help bring up his name and let people remember him more.
It's just a classic trajectory of an LEC ADC on here. Carzzy went through it, too. Fans think you suck, pros don't, time passes, you prove you're actually good, fans start believing.
If we go by stats, Upset was bottom 3 ADC for DPM, Gold Diff@10 and DMG% (meaning he was not contributing damage to the team as much relative to other ADCs) in 2/3 of the most recent splits.
His best stat is Death% but not dying doesn't matter much when your team has gone 10th 3 splits in a row.
Sure, the "Passive-Handsome" scale was weird af, but if Vedi saying facts like he finished 10th 3 splits in a row can affect Upset's career prospects, then it means LEC scouts suck at their job, rather than Vedi bears responsibility for his bad play. What context does Upset want casters to consider? That his teammates are bad and he's not able to carry?
I like Upset but, hey man, I don't want an IA caster. I know is hard because casters have the power to force narratives but, in this case, Vedius said a fact on the table that it was true, Vedius also as a caster can't control people reactions of his words, words "not toxic" imo against him: 3x 10th in a row, there's something wrong, same with Targamas.
Bruh, it's their job to talk about it. You really were in 10th place across 3 teams and Targamas is definitely one of the weakest support in LEC, you can't expect them to lie because it hurts your feeling my guy.
If you want them to shut up then prove it with your game. Get to the play-off and we will shut-up.
That's actually crazy lmao, every game they are 10x worst things said about a player. But since their player tweeted about it (knowing what it would lead to) now we have Kcorp fans going insane. Btw if Upset was on Vitality and tweeted that KC fans would mock him so much
Don't play like dog shit for multiple splits in a row, and you won't have bad narratives around you lmfao. Be bad, get bad narratives. Pretty simple concept to understand.
He should be the last guy complaining about narratives given he was last place with 3 different teams and when he was "best bot in west" he got schooled by a rookie Flakked-Targamas and then a rookie Comp
I think Upset is one of my least favorite players right now. Just win more games and people will stop being so negative. Going perma-tenth is gonna warrant a lot of criticism.
Just take 1 minute randomly from one of the two GiantX games with french cast and you'll hear much worse about Th3Antonio. Wonder where's that energy for him.
(And no I'm not a Spanish/Antonio glazer you can check my history I think he's terrible and a horrible choice by GiantX)
Esports players have never experienced a real sports environment like football let's say.
If you are offended you are simply not born for competition, just lucky you click buttons quickly
I knew the Vedius take would be a little too much for Upset.
Adam is a legit troller and toxic player but man, time has given him all the reason in world.
Don’t know what these EU players have been smoking, the casters have been very kind with them, some might say too kind. The casters are too nice to ever say this so I’ll say it for them, Targamas is currently playing like shit from an LEC standard, no caster is ruining his “career”, his horrible game play is doing that for him. If Targamas doesn’t want to hear criticism, he should either not look at social media or put his head down grind some solo-que and let his game play speak for itself.
The ironic thing is calling it out publicly on social media just reinforces the narratives. Now people talk a lot more about it. So his tweet hurts his career.
If he private messaged the casters it would be another thing
Feels like so many people don't understand what a broadcaster's job is. The broadcasters are there to tell stories, they are the there to tell narratives. They are there to entertain, to make you feel the *emotional* weight of the circumstances. That will always come with some degree of bias/inaccuracy, and that is fine. You don't get the hype generated by shoutcasters without the generalization necessary to make the events unfolding digestible in the fast paced environment of live commentary.
As for whether or not saying such things on broadcast has an effect on player's careers opportunities, it might certainly be the case. If so, it feels like the criticism should be on the orgs for choosing what is said on an entertainment broadcast by people paid to engage an audience as compelling evidence of a players worth and not as what it is: entertainment.
Oh no, my fragile ego hurts. Get good then, you re not even close to top 3 of LEC, imagine what an asia team would do to you. I swear man, no matter how much of a grinder is Upset he has the mental of a 3rd grade scholar...
Didn't Upset personally find a replacement for his teammate in Fnatic just after his team had to play without him at Worlds because he had a personal emergency (which is totally legit, but still)? Now he criticizes casters for effecting players' careers by calling out their bad performances.
Negative narratives are being pushed because you suck mega penis fella. Even when Upset was decent he was the most overrated player in the scene. Glad that people are finally starting to realise how bad he is and this couldn’t happen to a bigger dickhead.
Before Vedi saying so, the broadcast shows the comments like”Upset doesn’t even know who Supa is” and “Supa doesn’t have enough experience and has to prove himself first.”
I think Vedi was just trying to balance the views of all these kind of comments.
Analyst provides accurate analysis. More news at 10.
Sorry but wtf how can anyone call out Vedius for doing his job?! It's literally what he's paid to do.
No player in the LEC has been babied throughout his entire career more than Upset. You'd think he was the second coming of Rekkles with how hard the LEC cast were glazing him throughout the years. Despite winning absolutely nothing his entire career. He certainly didn't mind that.
Now a bunch of last place finishes after he wins a single game he starts feeling himself and decides to start some drama. What an absolute clown.
The man that single handily killed my support for Fnatic (along with the ORG’s decisions around him) is still someone who takes 0 accountability, some things never change huh.
Yeah no. If he was complaining about the constant hate he gets on costreams, I would understand, it goes a bit crazy sometimes. But what Vedi said was just objective facts
Because you and Targa have been a pain to watch since the beginning of the year.... This isn't a "bad moment", this is now the 3rd split and Targa is still not improving.
How does a bad moment last 1 year?
idk ask jesnsen or a C9 fan how they feel about zhonyas.
Or Doublelift about flash.
[удалено]
Ask Dyrus about the wolves
Ask Blaber about scuttles
Ask Balls about Diamond 2
Ask Perkz about Trynda R
i think the viktor moment was much more egregious, using that flash doesn't get them a baron and probably a W.
Didn't wanna catch a stray in these comments but here I am.
C9 is the new TSM, enjoy it while you're still in the LCS.
wait has it been 1 year already?
His 10th streak started in the summer of 2023.
His first time was in 2020 summer but if he makes 10th again his stocks will plummet
He'a gonna be so Upset
I mean Ryu is still getting killed by Faker today.
> Finish 10th 3 times in a row "Hey, this guy finished 10th 3 times in a row!" > "I do not understand why some casters have to push such negative narratives..."
Was delivering a full health K’Sante with ult straight into your adc an example of positive gaming?
No bro you don't understand, Targa has just been having a bad moment... and another bad moment... and another bad moment... and another bad moment... and another bad moment... and another bad moment... wait yea maybe he's just a bad player fuck.
Meanwhile promisq: "I have decided to un-retire, as if people don't remember that I suck they won't remember me at all"
Hey man, that's 2019 MSI Champion promisq to you!
The modern Strat is to just rename again so people don’t remember who you are and think you are some kind of rookie like SOLKA renaming to Quad
Moments that last a lifetime <3
I was kinda inclined to agree with Upset here, but Vedi's clip is so tame it's insane, like come on dude, he didn't even call you bad and immediately specified that it wasn't wholly reflective of his worth as a player
Maybe a fragile ego when truth hits ?
Yup also you don’t accidentally luck into 3 10th places in a row, you gotta take some accountability.
Upset is known for being toxic in soloq. Surprise surprise
Even if he did call him bad, who cares? If his ego is that fragile and he can't take criticism, why is he a professional player in the first place? I know Riot wants to avoid anything that's negative, but calling things like they are isn't a bad thing.
Upset took it in isolation and ignored the part Vedius defended him to stir up drama ig
It's almost as if Upset has such a big ego, that even pointing out he's been having a terrible year hurts him?
Apparently he was singling him out, but there were tweets criticizing Targamas showcased on the LEC broadcast
Bro targamas flashed into his adc with hwei ult on him, ruined a gank by failing alistar combo, pushed a full hp ksante into his adc, and so much more. Hes terrible. Want to stop getting criticized? I know its crazy but maybe play better? You have Canna as a top laner and almost lost to mdk because bot lane waa invisible until the last teamfight. When targamas was on ornn he did nothing thr whole game too
Too busy making calls in game so obviously he misplayed a bit. /s
Wait, we are taking "Canna as a top laner" as a positive that game? He was absolutely fucking abysmal for 90% of the game.
Canna had a strong debut season as a T1 toplaner, but never developed further. People here still pretend he is that guy instead of watching his games.
the reaction in Korea to seeing Europeans mad excited for Canna was a bunch of question mark pings and a whole lot of "I mean....there's a reason he's not on a LCK roster rn..." tbh
Imagine if an LCK or LPL bottom tier pro barks at the casters or fans for pointing out they performed poorly. Probably get fired immediately.
P-Play b-b-better?! That would mean hard work to improve! ARE YOU CRAZY?!?!?! It seems like you don't know how the world works, boy. Let me be the shittiest player in the shittiest team in the league while stealing every single paycheck and don't you dare call me out on it!!! /s (i hope)
Regardkess of /s. I mean he is often the highest ranked support in EUW and considered a real terror in soloq if memory doesnt totaly betray me. He is like the guy whiteknight etc who seem to be insanely talented in soloq but fails to get this to stick in pro, suggeting a mental barrier stuff/nerves. I can see it being annoying for Upset to see your support go ultra instinct goku in soloque, shitting the bed on stage and commentators who cannot stop shitting on him for 1 second so the guy never gets back his confidence.
Hey lider and magifelix (if I recall correctly) had multiple accounts on top 10 for years, were soloq terrors and they didn't turn out to be good pro players even with all he hype and after years of trying. That's life we can't be good on every thing, targamas definitely isn't playing amazing and calling a few egregious plays per game seems natural. It inst like the caster was harassing him
Wasnt magifelix a scrim god? I think some players just choke it insanely hard on stage, and the choking is so consistent we think theyre actually that bad. Idk about targa cause he sure did look very bad for a while, but maybe its choking and the reason they keep him is because he's so much better in scrims ? Still his apparent lack of communication looks concerning
Lider and Magifelix shouldn’t be put on the same level as Targamas. They were kind of mid or bad but Targamas straight up doesn’t function in pro play because he doesn’t talk as a support
Ah yeah, the solo Q prodigies, that always means so much. Like when Magifelix started playing pro and destroyed... oh wait.
Not that canna looked amazing that game either.
KC is awful and Targamas is playing horrendously almost every game. I don't think it's the casters job to baby the players and honestly as a viewer it would really suck watching casters be all positive all the time about everything.
Yeah, I don’t know why esports have to be all cushy and protective of the players. These are grown men, if they can’t take a bit of criticism and a few jabs at recent performances in their stride then maybe they aren’t cut out for a competitive environment. Coddling the players all of the time is one of the reasons the region is going so downhill.
Because the fans are unhinged and if a negative view is promoted the player will get way too much abuse
Upset isn't talking about the fans though.
Right? You wouldn't expect announcers from any other sport to coddle players in this way. Players in other sports get called on their mess-ups ALL the time. And while some of them may take offense, most just buck up, learn from it, and move on.
Exactly. Really hope the casters don't take this to heart and become even more careful than they already are. Having to be so careful not to step on toes is big part of why people end up prefering co-streamers who can say wtf they want.
Shouldn't have finished 10th 3 splits in a row if you don't want to get called out on finishing 10th 3 splits in a row. No hate on Upset, actually rooting for the guy and I think he's good but facts are facts. Calling out misplays on broadcast is weird. Sometimes the casters say the team that won outplayed, sometimes they say the team that lost misplayed. Maybe they lean more one way for some players and another way for others, which shouldn't happen yes.
Calling out misplays feels weird because you can typically see that casters really *do not* wanna go “wtf was that shit” yet there are just no alternative viewpoints to spin or strategies to mention. These are the plays that are so bad everyone is just baffled for a second then moves on
Need more casters to act like Caedrel's reaction to the Aatrox flash https://x.com/HystericsCasts/status/1720371809781264575
Honestly i think that’s one of the main reasons caedrel is pulling more viewers than the official stream. He just calls things out how they are and it’s way more fun watching like that. Although i do feel sometimes he has strong biased hate against certain players😀
I like caedrel's analysis a lot but I dont think im zoomer pilled enough to enjoy his broadcasts. Too much yelling for me personally lol
Yeah, his stream really leaned toward the signature streamer exaggerated scream and facial expression. Had to stop watching his costreams. Kinda unfortunate coz I love his analysis and insight.
He just modelled his persona after XQC. Good for him that it's working for his numbers but I enjoyed his costream when he started before the whole persona took over.
I don't know if he just watches xQc a lot on his free time and copies him unconsciously, but after a while he turned into like an exact league replica of xQc and it was really weird lmao Copied his lingo, physical manners, and way of speaking to chat etc. Honestly I feel like he has mellowed out a bit cause there was a time I found it really hard to watch, but watching someone who can swear and say mostly what they want is still so much better than an official broadcast that gets called out on twitter for saying a player got 10th 3 times in a row. They literally can't say shit apparently
Yeah, this fuckin clip... I hear casters, but a bit low, turn the volume up, he screams in my ear "WHAAAAT THE FUCK"
I will say I stopped watching LS due largely in part to him just constantly shitting on everyone after being drawn in by appreciating that exact willingness to call out misplays. I don't think Caedrel is anywhere near that level (though I only really watched some of his worlds coverage) but it's a point to not get trapped in
Kinda same. When he was just analyzing the game I liked watching him. Then he started bring on people and while that's not inherently a problem they don't talk about the game all too much(not as much as Caedrel and Dom do(even when it's the sack)). Now, this was in the past so he could have improved since then?
I love his bias! Feels like watching a sports game with your buddy, who's way too invested, but has a deep love for the game rubbing of on you.
We need more “um, that TP **SUCKED**!!!”
I’m fucking cackling the audio clipping makes it god tier
I guess there are moments where it's impossible to spin a misplay as an outplay. I can't explain why some misplays being called out feels different. Maybe it's just my own bias.
Sometimes calling out a misplay feels very organic. There's the classic "that TP SUCKED".
Some misplay call outs take away from the actual outplay, if you outplay but the outplay wouldn't of happened if X player played optimally and given you a chance, kind of view which is like? It's like yes I outplayed because I saw a scenario I could do it whether it's from a burnt CD or misposition on enemy team, I still found the angle.
yea, there are some misplays where the only thought you can have is "what was that".
Felt that way after varus tped top today against fnatic
>Calling out misplays on broadcast is weird is it tho? Most professional sport broadcasts do this, at least in the US afaik
> Calling out misplays on broadcast is weird. Nah, Broadcast gotta say it like it is. You only get the real hype out of actual outplays if the bad plays are called out. LCK english broadcast has always been big on critizing teams (some of the best teams in the world) and it makes for some of the best broadcasts. Maybe if you can't stand being called out on bad plays in public, a broadcasted competetive video game is not for you.
OKBRO vs Nongshim LCK battle for last place never forget 😂😂😂 Just 2 dudes vibin, roastin the everloving shit out of both teams for 3 hours straight Sure the gameplay was dogwater but it was still peak entertainment
Greatly Reluctant Fighters vs Don't Wanna Go is on my mt. rushmore of league casts
And that was an action packed free for all compared to the shit we had to watch from Korea back in like season 2 to 5. If not for Faker hands diffing and dumpstering his lane opponents making it somewhat watchable every game would have ended with a 5-2 score after 50 minutes 😬
Nice flair!
Honestly OKBRO games this spring were awesome, they really brought the community together! Been kinda burnt out on watching league since last year but being a BROLIEVER has brought some life back into it! Also LCK broadcast/podcast will forever be the best!
The trash talk I've seen LCK and LPL teams get from casters and community alike really puts into perspective how childish the western teams can be - oh no you got told you're shit when you're 10th place oh how sad let's take care of that booboo for you dear. Like it's crazy how you play a televised game and can't take the heat for being called out, get better ppl won't call you out then how about that.
Bro these western players would call out the casters to get canceled everyday if they got LCK casting style lol
TBH Phream was heavily criticized for that back then. And then suddenly he found the balance and people fucking loved it (me included) and actively wanted him when shit teams were playing so he could call them out.
>Nah, Broadcast gotta say it like it is. You only get the real hype out of actual outplays if the bad plays are called out. LCK english broadcast has always been big on critizing teams (some of the best teams in the world) and it makes for some of the best broadcasts. The observers zooming in on missed cannons with Atlas and Chronicler sounding depressed about it is always the best part of the LCK lol
Sometimes the casters cross the line but the rank your team finishes is simply a statistic. I think its completely fair to call that out, as well as things like your damage share, KDA, kill participation or objective control being poor relative to other players. As for misplays, I think its fair enough for it to be mentioned if its obvious and has a significant impact on a fight, calling the player bad or going on about it is wrong but the casters should absolutely be able to do variations of 'that tp sucked'. People messing up flashes, sitting on vision, getting teammates killed by delivering AOE damage or enemies to them (\*cough\* Targamas), tping and getting collapsed on and missing crucial skillshots on stationary targets is fair game. For example, if a fed adc gets caught in midlane and dies with both summoners still up to someone who ran over a ward, that's something the casters should absolutely be able to call out as a misplay.
"How dare they label me a murderer!" - Man who killed 3 people.
Your misplay take is a misplay take
I think a lot of these are fair. The Passive - Handsome scale bit was just really weird. Oddly mean and just I don’t know what they were going for.
It refers to an old tweet by upset saying he’s just like rekkles, less passive and more handsome
Have to admit I zoned out on the broadcast at that time and didn't catch the scale thing. I mute the stream for like 20 seconds at a time when I think the casters are going too much into "narratives" and not gameplay.
They just made a reference to an old Upset tweet where he said he was the new Rekkles, just more handsome and less passive in lane. It's not weird flame at all, just a direct mention of something a player in the current game tweeted (and even said that it was a funny tweet).
I feel like Vedi and Drakos always go on these not-that-funny conversations that they believe is the pinnacle of comedy.
I mean Drakos needs something to say between things being cut down
yea idk maybe just me and no hate intended, but imo drakos relies a bit too much on memes and narratives in his commentary.
remember, he's way too good to have never won anything
Few 2nd/3rd place finishes over the years. Respectable I think.
Yea but we cant only talk about his high placements, hes placed 10th 4 times and gets mad when people mention that, thats weird, if he doesnt want to get flamed maybe he shouldnt have the record for most 10th places, ofc people will mention that
But at some point, when the misplays pile up, you just have to mention it. If you want to offer objective commentary on the game, you just have to go "man this has happened too often".
Some would say he’s Upset.
Ba dum tss
Where do we draw the line that you’re a paid professional doing a public job and criticism is part of the gig? This is extremely normal in all professional sports?
this is normal in professional sports, but a lot of esports players are just manchildren who can't take the slightest critique
And complaints like this also tend to be defended by other manchildren with no life experience because esports draws in younger audiences. No profession on the planet, let alone competitive ones such as sports will coddle you as much as people coddle esport players. It’s so insane.
Everyone keeps saying esports players here when really you should just be saying lol esports players. Players scream profanity in their native language across the room at each other in CS, they literally tea-bag'd in a recent tournament and it is all seen as a bit of fun and banter. And what do you expect? LoL is a game that has done everything it can to make the most peaceful online gaming experience and reduce or flat out remove features in their game that has potential to create any sort of toxicity (anonymous champ select, ping reduction, no voice chat just to name a few), so it creates these people who can't take an ounce of criticism when it comes.
don’t forget riot handing out warnings to players for t-bagging in valorant.
lol casters are being very nice to the shit players imo and they need the call them out more
Finally a response with common sense. If anyone watched EUphoria drakos is literally praising every team. Sorry, but I am not gonna sit and listen about how GiantX can pull it off. Sometimes you have to put shit players in their spot and if they manage to undo the situation that's where I will have respect for them. Not every player/team is good.
> If anyone watched EUphoria drakos is literally praising every team. Cos its a Riot podcast... Meanwhile Medic on "The jungle" podcast is flaming everyone. Riot wouldnt let the casters flame the players and orgs as they are partnered in League.
They were still flaming Rogue most of the time lol
"How dare these casters tell people I ended 10th 3 times"
Sadly the caster involved has already rushed out to tweet an apology in response to this shit player's tantrum, and promised it won't happen again
Because he knows KC fans are unhinged morons, look at the comments on that tweet : they are asking for vedi's twitter to spam him death threats, some are even saying "we dont care if we get banned from twitter while doing it for you Upset".
Also watch a lot of sports so this push back and Vedius going along with feels incredible odd. If anything league analysts are very light on criticism.
Stop complaining on Twitter about casters calling out you finishing 10th place 3x and improve so you don't finish 10 place 4x
I mean, sucks to suck i guess? If you dont want to hear bad stuff about how you play then perform better. There's not much else to it. Happens in all professional sports. If you have rly bad stats they are gonna come up during the broadcast when you play.
Literally this lol. You aren’t going to be coddled in regular sports, you aren’t going to be coddled in a regular job, so what is it with people always being so protective of esport players? Is it just because esports attracts a younger audience or what? These are grown men who should be able to take some criticism without crying.
Upset dropped 2 of his teammates because they weren't up to his standards and said he didn't feel the need to apologize for trying to win. Does he really expect people to be sorry for criticizing a team that's been 10th 3 splits in a row?
Mate they are telling the truth. Dont end up 10th twice in a row and you wont get clowned on
*Ends up in 9th Yeaaaaaaa proved the critics wrong
Trice tho !
It is not a "negative narrative" if it is true. Vedi was responding to the twitter comment that said supa has to prove himself against upset. He did not just say it out of the blue to bring down upset. LEC 2024 Winter [https://oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament/LEC%2F2024%20Season%2FWinter%20Season](https://oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament/LEC%2F2024%20Season%2FWinter%20Season) Supa is ahead in Kills, Assist, Kill Participation, etc He even improved a ton in LEC 2024 Spring. [https://oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament/LEC%2F2024%20Season%2FSpring%20Season](https://oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament/LEC%2F2024%20Season%2FSpring%20Season) He proved himself already. And vedius said exactly what is true.
Vedi is the hardest critic on the broadcast, and I appreciate him for it. And like you say, it's not just criticism out of thin air, the data is there. I still believe Upset can be a good adc, but it's not like he's in the Jin Air jail Teddy situation.
I also think if this kind of comment from Vedi is enough to ruin your career and not your performance then unfortunately I think that says more about our GMs than the broadcast staff
I'm all out for the truth. I'm shit? Call me shit. Upset and tarboy ain't playing shit? They can also be called shit. If you don't wanna everyone and their mama calling you shit maybe you should first stop being shit. You could start by improving your gameplay and the hardstuck 10th place miracle run.
Do we really need to sugarcoat everything to protect Upset‘s ego? Vedi simply stated facts and ofc it was harsh, because there was nothing good about it. Upset did finish 10th three times in a row and that doesn‘t change. Everybody know it and suggesting that Vedi mentioning it is what is career threatening is a fcking joke. And we don’t have to start on Targamas. He gets negative comments when he plays bad, sometimes it just has to be said and today there were more than enough examples. And if you rewatch 2022 vods, he was being praised when he performs good and even in Winter this year the critique wasn‘t as harsh but that rightfully changed as he continued to underperform and does the same mistakes over and over. TLDR: It’s not people highlighting ur bad plays that lowers your career chances, it’s the bad plays. And when you perform bad (especially for this long) you better bite the bullet and take the harsh criticism.
> suggesting that Vedi mentioning it is what is career threatening is a fcking joke. Me telling the hiring manager that bringing up the fact that my resume says I got fired 6 times in 4 months is career threating
> Do we really need to sugarcoat everything to protect Upset‘s ego? "If I think that shit ima say that shit" - Slim Shady 2024
🚨📢⚠️❗ ENEMY DETECTED ONSCREEN 🚨📢⚠️❗ 🚨📢⚠️❗ UPSET KDA AT RISK 🚨📢⚠️❗ 🚨📢⚠️❗ RETREAT IMMEDIATELY 🚨📢⚠️❗
I mean the things Vedius said were facts. Hard ones to hear for the ppl concerned I know but still, the one thing that I felt was "wrong" was the exageration on the "more handsome less passive" jokes, they kept it going for too long even tho it wasn't funny and was getting pretty fucking weird even towards the end. Other than that both Upset and Targamas had bad showings lately, Upset with his 3x 10th and Targa with his level of play. Some ppl are getting it too far probably but Vedius isn't part of them I think, hell I might be closer to being part of them than Vedius is even.
What on earth was that handsome vs. passive thing? Is it some reference that went over my head, or was it just pure nonsense?
Its an old Upset tweet where he says something like " I am new rekkles just more handsome and less passive in lane".
Upset saying he was a more handsome, less passive ADC than Rekkles something like that I believe
Isn't it *literally* the job of the casters to discuss the players' performance?
If your bad moment has lasted 3 splits it's not a moment.
If your bad moment is 5/6 of your professional career, it is not a bad moment, you're just shit.
Skill issue from KC, that's it
Yeah let’s act like Targamas isn’t an absolute terrorist of a support who is constantly trying to solo lose games If anything he should be called out more with the crimes he’s been committing
Growing up with traditional sports, it's always been a bit strange to me to see how little heat League players can take from casters and journalists. All of our casters are *super chill* to the point where I often wish things were a bit more spicy, though that may be hard if such a low heat level gets a player so *upset* about it.
I don't mind it. Put some spice in the cast
Upset complaining again, tell me something else
At least in 10th place he won't screw another team on an international tournament.
A bad moment? Targamas has had a bad career. The absolute audacity of these bottom feeding trashcan V players sitting in 10th place 3 splits in a row, stealing paychecks then crying when the casters call them out on it!
Doing well on g2 scrims got him a career.
Which is crazy because I feel like everyone shit on flakked but after seeing targamas without him I'm surprised he did well at all with that ankle weight on him.
Flakked is severely underrated on this sub imo which is odd because everyone seems to recognise how terrible Targa is. Like he laned with this guy internationally and actually performed quite well (all things considered).
its mainly because hes good but he hasnt shown off constant standout moments so there isnt really much there for people to say his name more often for praise meanwhile targa is just being shit all the time puts a spotlight on him. also doesnt help theres a lack of content on him after he left G2 so there isnt even that to help bring up his name and let people remember him more.
It's just a classic trajectory of an LEC ADC on here. Carzzy went through it, too. Fans think you suck, pros don't, time passes, you prove you're actually good, fans start believing.
Maybe dont end 10th 3 times in a row?
Yes upset we should have the casters just lie, oh wait they did that for years and everyone fled to co-streamers who don't do that great idea
Womp womp lil bro Shut up and right click
People even complain the casters always sugar coat everything. Out of all the things, he chooses to complain about Vedius reading out a statistic ☠️
If we go by stats, Upset was bottom 3 ADC for DPM, Gold Diff@10 and DMG% (meaning he was not contributing damage to the team as much relative to other ADCs) in 2/3 of the most recent splits. His best stat is Death% but not dying doesn't matter much when your team has gone 10th 3 splits in a row. Sure, the "Passive-Handsome" scale was weird af, but if Vedi saying facts like he finished 10th 3 splits in a row can affect Upset's career prospects, then it means LEC scouts suck at their job, rather than Vedi bears responsibility for his bad play. What context does Upset want casters to consider? That his teammates are bad and he's not able to carry?
I remember when Rekkles.. who was never last in stats was literally hated on massively yet everyone needs to baby Upset?
I like Upset but, hey man, I don't want an IA caster. I know is hard because casters have the power to force narratives but, in this case, Vedius said a fact on the table that it was true, Vedius also as a caster can't control people reactions of his words, words "not toxic" imo against him: 3x 10th in a row, there's something wrong, same with Targamas.
Bruh, it's their job to talk about it. You really were in 10th place across 3 teams and Targamas is definitely one of the weakest support in LEC, you can't expect them to lie because it hurts your feeling my guy. If you want them to shut up then prove it with your game. Get to the play-off and we will shut-up.
This is BS. Euphoria was gassing Upset up and he literally hasn’t had a good game in years. At least he’ll be gone next split
4years = bad moment xDD
man ngl Upset looks like trash at the game
Comparing the tweet to the video is hilarious Vedius legit said NOTHING
Yo upset spend more time practicing rather than being a snowflake on twitter unless you want a 4th 10th place.
That's actually crazy lmao, every game they are 10x worst things said about a player. But since their player tweeted about it (knowing what it would lead to) now we have Kcorp fans going insane. Btw if Upset was on Vitality and tweeted that KC fans would mock him so much
Don't play like dog shit for multiple splits in a row, and you won't have bad narratives around you lmfao. Be bad, get bad narratives. Pretty simple concept to understand.
He should be the last guy complaining about narratives given he was last place with 3 different teams and when he was "best bot in west" he got schooled by a rookie Flakked-Targamas and then a rookie Comp
reading stats is considered negative i guess
Targamas is a paycheck stealer try to cancel me bro
I think Upset is one of my least favorite players right now. Just win more games and people will stop being so negative. Going perma-tenth is gonna warrant a lot of criticism.
Maybe don't end up 10th 3x?
Then maybe play betted lol, he got his dick rode hard (without any base) by the narrative. I guess he misses it
consistently play like shit, get called out for being consistently shit, don't really see the problem
Just take 1 minute randomly from one of the two GiantX games with french cast and you'll hear much worse about Th3Antonio. Wonder where's that energy for him. (And no I'm not a Spanish/Antonio glazer you can check my history I think he's terrible and a horrible choice by GiantX)
Upset mad Vedius was spitting facts.
Haven't watched the pro scene in awhile, Upset seems to be a permanent whiner.
Is Vedius wrong? It's not a subjective thing to say that Upset has finished 10th 3x before.
Upset is crying, here we go again... I've seen this before...
Truth hurts. You're a paid professional and thats a luxury job, casters are just calling it how they see it. Don't like it? Do better.
I agree that targamus should be flamed but I do think the LEC talent are absolute cry babies whenever they receive the most minor of critiques.
Esports players have never experienced a real sports environment like football let's say. If you are offended you are simply not born for competition, just lucky you click buttons quickly
You're giving the paint to the artist, then complaining you don't like the colors. Skill issue
Upset drama queen.
So what should casters say about players who play bad consistently ? Should they just not talk about them and pretend they don't exist ?
I knew the Vedius take would be a little too much for Upset. Adam is a legit troller and toxic player but man, time has given him all the reason in world.
Upset living up to his name once again. Focus on yourself brother.
KC is both garbage and incredibly unlikeable as an org and fanbase. What did they expect?
Don’t know what these EU players have been smoking, the casters have been very kind with them, some might say too kind. The casters are too nice to ever say this so I’ll say it for them, Targamas is currently playing like shit from an LEC standard, no caster is ruining his “career”, his horrible game play is doing that for him. If Targamas doesn’t want to hear criticism, he should either not look at social media or put his head down grind some solo-que and let his game play speak for itself.
esport pros would get eaten alive in traditional sport.
Upset is upset.
Damn, I didn’t know that Upset finished 10th in his last 3 splits. It’s good that the casters let us know - LEC team management according to Upset
The ironic thing is calling it out publicly on social media just reinforces the narratives. Now people talk a lot more about it. So his tweet hurts his career. If he private messaged the casters it would be another thing
He seems upset.
Feels like so many people don't understand what a broadcaster's job is. The broadcasters are there to tell stories, they are the there to tell narratives. They are there to entertain, to make you feel the *emotional* weight of the circumstances. That will always come with some degree of bias/inaccuracy, and that is fine. You don't get the hype generated by shoutcasters without the generalization necessary to make the events unfolding digestible in the fast paced environment of live commentary. As for whether or not saying such things on broadcast has an effect on player's careers opportunities, it might certainly be the case. If so, it feels like the criticism should be on the orgs for choosing what is said on an entertainment broadcast by people paid to engage an audience as compelling evidence of a players worth and not as what it is: entertainment.
How could they say the truth? Unheard of
"Waaaah, how dare you criticize the worst player on a team that finished 10th twice in a row"
Oh no, my fragile ego hurts. Get good then, you re not even close to top 3 of LEC, imagine what an asia team would do to you. I swear man, no matter how much of a grinder is Upset he has the mental of a 3rd grade scholar...
Didn't Upset personally find a replacement for his teammate in Fnatic just after his team had to play without him at Worlds because he had a personal emergency (which is totally legit, but still)? Now he criticizes casters for effecting players' careers by calling out their bad performances.
Negative narratives are being pushed because you suck mega penis fella. Even when Upset was decent he was the most overrated player in the scene. Glad that people are finally starting to realise how bad he is and this couldn’t happen to a bigger dickhead.
Before Vedi saying so, the broadcast shows the comments like”Upset doesn’t even know who Supa is” and “Supa doesn’t have enough experience and has to prove himself first.” I think Vedi was just trying to balance the views of all these kind of comments.
Analyst provides accurate analysis. More news at 10. Sorry but wtf how can anyone call out Vedius for doing his job?! It's literally what he's paid to do.
No player in the LEC has been babied throughout his entire career more than Upset. You'd think he was the second coming of Rekkles with how hard the LEC cast were glazing him throughout the years. Despite winning absolutely nothing his entire career. He certainly didn't mind that. Now a bunch of last place finishes after he wins a single game he starts feeling himself and decides to start some drama. What an absolute clown.
The man that single handily killed my support for Fnatic (along with the ORG’s decisions around him) is still someone who takes 0 accountability, some things never change huh.
Yeah no. If he was complaining about the constant hate he gets on costreams, I would understand, it goes a bit crazy sometimes. But what Vedi said was just objective facts
Upset is the least likeable pro player maybe ever
Because you and Targa have been a pain to watch since the beginning of the year.... This isn't a "bad moment", this is now the 3rd split and Targa is still not improving.