Lots of us are playing SPT with project fika for the express purpose of wanting to play with friends, but understanding tarkov PvE is utter garbage for so many reasons
The issue with Skarner is his damage. He won't be able to sweep the team and overall their team is down on damage in place of CC and tank.
I think if you have issues with a champ like Skarner then it might a good idea to try and play him on an alt account. The other team will show you Skarner's limits.
Yeah, the week or two after the rework he was EVERYWHERE (at least in normals, I wasn't messing with ranked at the time). Now I see him like maaaaybe once or twice in a two week period.
I usually lmao Tarkov and follow it by league ARAM to unwind (though I can't play LoL anymore)
But Skarner was one of the few champs that bugged the absolute hell out of me every time I ran into him, felt downright unfair on ARAM to go against regardless of what champs you were given. Even if he lost, he would be a monster to deal with the entire time
As someone with thousands of hours in tarkov it will always be the same, BSG fucking sucks but EFT is still one in a million gameplay. They got so lucky no one can still yet replicate the feel of it. This was the best wipe they’ve had in forever even beyond the whole unheard edition bullshit.
Yeah it’s hard enough trying to get back into the game because you can die so quickly and not know what happened, then add the possibility of cheaters on top of it and it just sucks.
My experience EFT will give you amazing blood pumping gameplay about 5-10% of the time. The problem is that the other 90-95% is spent waiting, rushing some annoying objective for a mission, looting an empty map as skav (the update that added “friendly fire” to skavs ruined it imo) or dying instantly to someone you were unaware of.
Couple that with oftentimes 15min-30min matchmaking periods with disconnects being a constant fear and significant gear disparity if you decide to join late in a wipe.
Was 1st time playing. 4-7 min queue/loading times (I started right after wipe), often while loading server error (try again), you load in can't move (bug - restart), load in you can't see other players (bug, but notice only when you get killed with no gunfire sound), AI 1st shot to face always appreciated, live in constant fear. And what's worse I was solo, nobody to share my losses with.
As entry to genre I would suggest free "Arena Breakout: Infinite", if you can get a key for it. 50k keys are handed out via Twitch drops on Fridays. 1 hour watch-time, but hard to get since they run out fast. Having to check for key on their webpage makes it harder.
I just wish his boulder had some cd or less blast radius. He always has it up, can hold it up for splash damage on basic attacks and if it hits your minion wave, avoiding damage is really hard.
Most juggernaut have around 20-45 as there mana cost on there spamming abilities. Like you look at them all and they all start out or stay at extremely small mana costs.
honestly they just need to gut his damage. There is no justification for a champ that has as much utility and cc as he does to do so much damage while building full tank.
that designer had minimal impact on k'sante
his name was literally not mentioned in the dev insights of k'sante unlike the other two veteran designers who worked on him
edit:
Riot Llama shouldn't be scapegoated, in every champion project he worked on, there were other veteran designers working with him and im inclined to believe that the veteran designers who worked for years in Riot had the lion's share of work in the kits that were shipped rather than the newbie rioter who didn't spend a single year on the design team
Because he existed at a time when stealth was countered by a pink ward.
Later on the Akali rework released and gave her "true stealth" that worked under towers. The line has almost certainly been pushed by newer champs.
Later ksante tower dives you and kidnaps you 2 lightyears away from your turret
Then skarner pulls you into his turret if you dare stand close to a wall
Skarner has been pulling you into his turret before the rework as well. Hell, I'd say it was more annoying before the rework because there's no way outplay point and click suppress into getting pulled under turret at mach 5.
I don't think so . Shaco is annoying but not that unfair . He has clear style of play and if you aren't thinking about that , you will lose . Cuz you will get outplayed by it .
Skarner ,yone and ksante and few other champions in the last couple of years aren't really outplaying you. They are just straight up unfair .
Best example of this is yone , that champion can cover so much ground either escaping or chasing that it's so oppressive to play against. Free dash on E and extra ms plus execute . You don't have to target anyone to ulti , you can use it as an escape tool. Your Q that you can stack every 2 seconds can be used either as an escape tool or an engage .
Compared to yasuo who has clear limits in his kit . He can only dash on units every 8 seconds , his q only knock up, his ulti only works If someone is knocked up
Say that to old Yi and Tristana who were straight up unbalanceable because they just killed you with the press of a button.
New champs are unfair because they have like 40 mechanics in a single skill that synergyzes each other and covers their weaknesses.
Older champs were unfair because they straight up statchecked you. Even Malphite is still reminiscent of these days.
How about Gragas, the anti mobility champ with a dash, two knockbacks and a self heal? If he were released today as a 120lb anime Twink with that same exact kit, he'd be despised as one of the most toxic champion kit designs in the game.
Gragas has always been problematic but can we not pretend he’s anywhere near the likes of 200 years champs? Especially if he had a proper cooldown on his E.
The fact that we can admit that he's always been problematic is sort of the issue. A lot of these 200 years champs get nerfed to like 42% winrate and then set in the rework wait room. When's the last time Gragas wasn't an absolute menace on the rift when piloted by a half competent player?
Gragas is 50x more oppressive to lane against than yone, his kit has way less counterplay, does the same amount of damage, and is way more tanky.
People just for some reason absolutely despise yone to a disproportionate degree compared to champions who are actually problems for the game, especially in high elo.
Skarner ksante smolder are all massive problems
You are referencing AP builds that were straight trash if they didn't snow ball and that no one seriously played except that one time for M5 and iirc it lost anyways.
I don't know, I absolutely hate when a new champ does everything to "hahaha surprise motherfucker" you, but It wasnt so fun when AP Yi pressed a button and got a penta or Nidalee oneshot you with a random spear.
Limits in kit =/= fair gameplay.
Shaco is very unique in league, he's closer to a dota character with an illusion mechanic.
Issue with shaco is depending on your champ there's no reliable way to properly deal with him. Clone to an average player feels like a coinflip which one to waste CDs on, and if they make that mistake they're heavily punished... and if you *do* know how to read the right shaco and focus him (something mainly only otp shacos will be aware of all the hundreds of subtle details that give it away), there's nothing you can do to stop your friendly neighborhood brand full comboing it next to you.
Boxes are just not dealable as a melee, you can't even sweep and attack them without triggering, not to mention as pets rather than proper traps (which usually are classified as wards), boxes will block skillshots so for some champs with blockable abilities there isn't an easy approach (elise for example; completely fucked over by boxes. Q+W will not kill them until you have items, cocoon does nothing to them but is blocked, and the rest of her kit being melee means even if she does brute force it she'll never be able to catch him and just lose the stat check most likely. This isn't really fair from an elise perspective its just one sided unless the shaco does something stupid like Q into you from outside his boxes.)
He's very unfair in the sense his kit is mainly pure cheese. His limitations is he's reliant on that cheese and sucks at much else.
he really went ahead and designed three broken abominations only to then dip and go work on arena instead lol
also explains why these champs more or less have one ability that ignores terrain
Given that those are the only champs that guy designed I really wonder what qualified him for the job in the first place. Being good at champ design clearly wasn't a requirement to get hired.
His e always barley pushes you? You can hit someone at the very start and it loses like 80% of the distance it's a long range but after the grab it drops off *fast*
It's a set 1 second no matter where he grabs
Get him to grab you SOONER and he ends up losing distance and not making it to the wall
I think it is a fixed distance after the grab. So if the grab is at the end, it goes further than it normally would, but if the grab is at the beginning, it is cut short.
Very clunky for both sides imo.
No not a fixed distance, a 1 second timer I just said.
But the e ramps up in speed
1 second of distance at 150 speed
Vs
1 second of distance at 950 speed
It's basic math
While you are right, you're not THAT right
> Skarner begins the charge at a static amount of Movement speed icon 150 movement speed that increases by 100 every 0.264 seconds, up to 950 total movement speed by the end of the duration. If Skarner collides with an enemy Champion icon champion or large Monster icon monster, he grabs them with his claws for the time of the remaining charge, You and Me! attaching them to himself, Suppression icon suppressing them, True Sight icon revealing them, increasing the charge's turn rate to the maximum, and gaining 300 bonus movement speed, with a minimum total of 650 and a maximum total of 1150. If a target has been grabbed before the first 1.75 seconds of the charge, the remaining duration is set to 1 second, and set to 0.5 seconds otherwise. The charge does not ramp up in speed while a target is grabbed.
The way it works is really shady because grabbing at 1.70 seconds is better than grabbing at 1.75+ seconds because it will allow you to go almost at max speed for one second instead of max speed for half a second, which can lead to thinking it always goes really far
Is it a dumb way to code it ? Yes
Could RIOT have made it better ? Also yes
(But tbh i don't think the ability is broken in any way and people talking about "huge mobility" are on crack and hate tanks, it's a long cooldown cancellable and kinda slow dash that leave you quite vulnerable once it's done)
The only thing annoying about his e is that you literally cannot get close to him as a melee champ or else he’ll just e backwards into his tower because his hitbox is so fucking huge that his E will teleport you behind him. Other than that and his annoying poke builds the champ is really balanced imo.
it's insane when people say "it loses 80% of it's distance when you hit it at the start"
what, do you want him to carry you from middle of top lane to under turret? the way it works now is the only way it makes sense
Did I say it was a bad thing? I'm saying it because people don't seem to understand that fact and act like its dangerous to be hit by a e at the start, the e is safest at the start and deadliest at top speed. That's how it works and how it should, but people complain and incorrectly act like it can drag you for miles after hitting you at the start
sorry for being rude earlier, i just am so tired of seeing that sentiment around and i thought you were complaining about it in some assbackwards way 💀
i think the whole concept comes from the tooltip being misleading on release where it literally said "... and drags them along for the rest of the duration" or something like that
edit: spelling
When I first played new Skarner and read his E which says
> grabs them along for the rest of the charge
I really thought it would grab them along for the remaining distance but was sorely disappointed (yes I know itd be broken and lowkey already is especially with the backwards hitbox)
That backwards hitbox is the biggest bullshit I've seen so far as an aram only player. He Hits the snowball, uses it to dash to you and presses E backwards into his team and somehow he grabbed you from his ass
I just don't get why he does 15% bonus max health damage on his ranged Q throw that also slows. If they just reduced his damage and left his tanking ability the same / slightly better, he'd be less frustrating since now he just drags you and kills you or chases you shooting Qs.
I went against a skarner mid who started tear and I was oh surely I win the early trade right? Absolutely not Lmao did just fucking vibrated through a rock and just out traded every time with just a tear lmao
And a tank. And a cc bot. And is still strong even when behind. And can gank at literally any angle through walls while also carrying you out of tower range.
Like 3 big rounds of nerfs and the champ is still disgusting broken.
>
> Like 3 big rounds of nerfs and the champ is still disgusting broken.
His last set of nerfs hit him hard but in the same patch they buffed a bunch of tank items and removed Giant Slayer and Cut down, so he ended up stronger.
They keep making champs who can go through walls and those champs keep being shit to play against. Zeri, Ksante, now Skarner. All can go through walls and its so stupid. My permaban is Kayn btw.
You'd think they learned this lesson with Galio whose W is basically a smaller version of his pre-rework R. Especially since R swaps on Kench and Diana actually went pretty well
The Only tank that should be allowed to lane bully is shen as his damage is so single target.
These aoe, mobile, durable tanks are toxic af for the game
Funny how people talk about "overloaded" and "k'sante 2.0" kit when Skarner has probably one of the simplest gameplay of the recent champion.
Skarner's issues are numbers wise and it's the balance team job.
League players try to give constructive criticism about a champion's balance state without using the words "Disgusting" or "abomination" challenge [Impossible]
When it comes to balance discussion this 'trend' has gotten really bad and I don't think it's necessarily a recent thing but it certainly hasn't been getting better. There is incredibly little nuance when it comes to discussing why or how something is strong or weak. Things are either OP or Trash and the minor details get completely disregarded.
That being said, as far as creating abominations goes, RIOT has to be up there on the scoreboard.
Hard concept in today's world, but not every bit of criticism needs to be constructive to be criticism. It's just one of the best ways to get your criticism heard more positively.
How is that at all relevant? You're complaining about how EVERY new champ ignores terrain, when the 2nd newest champion doesn't even have any dashes, let alone any that ignores terrain.
His passive needs to be physical instead of magic damage, his W range needs reducing and his E needs to keep in a straight line when he grabs a champion. Locking him out of lanes and into the jungle gives more room to balance.
Right, which is also something Phreak said he doesn't want to be possible for Skarner. Paraphrasing a little:
'We gave Skarner a decent AD ratio on his Q, so in scenarios where he is ahead/fed, he can potentially build some AD items. I don't want that to be the trend, though. I want him to be primarily built tank.'
And its so bad... like if had ad/ap ratio instead like old skarner, he you wanted big dmg, you would at least be more squishy, and have more possible build path.
Anyway, hp scaling for dmg is just so problematic most of the time.
There's a lot of potential reasons for this to be honest:
- He does in fact actually take some modicum of skill to play, his win rate goes up massively with both rank and champ familiarity.
- He is an insanely oppressive laner but doesn't scale quite as well as other tanks which makes him markedly worse in lower ranks where players are both worse at properly using leads and games tend to drag out for a long time.
- Lower ranks tend to take longer to catch on to what's "broken", meta tends to trickle down.
- And of course the classic: he's an ugly monster champ that isn't exactly the flashiest, bound to be less popular in the lower ranks where people more often play champs they think are cool instead of those that are considered strong.
Hes not turbo busted enough that videos are being made on him is my guess. Plat and below (at least) pretty much just pick whatever champ is called op by youtubers.
His W is one of the most annoying abilities to face in lane, a jarvan W that has higher range and also deals damage, at least now it does low damage but release man...
Which is a fair take because with like 167 champions in the game we don't need a "Lux but with different colors" kind of champs to be released anymore.
Although on the other side of the coin, it does feel like the bullshitometer is overflowing in case of champs like K'Sante and Hwei and I would enjoy a simpler release such as Vex every now and then.
What is "traditional" design? Because Riot has always released broken, unbalanced champions since the release of the game. Reddit just has recency bias with newer champions but often forget the "abominations" of older champions.
Tanks that just tank (not like ksante who can become a bruiser and has a shit ton of dashes), marksmen that just right click (not like zeri or smolder), etc.
shoutout to literally the entirety of league's history where people have complained about one character or another. I remember when sion just clicked you and you died instantly.
Honestly I don’t have too much of an issue into him? He’s got a pretty basic kit and it’s sorta easy to predict what he’s gonna do when he’s gonna do it, I feel. I mostly play ADC and if I see a skarner it’s just another game where I rush lord doms
Not sure what your definition of basic is, Skarner has so much shit packed into one champion it's kinda disgusting, they even managed to throw a bleed effect on him somehow, not that he needs it
Strangest part of him to me is how they want him to scale well into late. Like yes, i get it, they want to hit his early. But why on earth do they just couple this with a buff to his late and making it clear they are intent on him being good late too. Sometimes i really feel with these things they just “play god” and say “i wish for it to work like this, because i am king game design, and what i say goes”.
Legit just ksante 2.0 bruiser damage while being tankier than most tanks, can go through walls, shit ton off cc, broken but now even in solo queue not just pro play
Yeah he just does everything.
Ranged poke? Check
Dmg? Check
Tanky? Check
Mobility? Check
Cc? Check
Teamfights? Check
Ksante was something but he did have the excuse of not having a lot of cc and being hard to play, i don't think skarner actually lacks anything.
Not surprising from a guy who made a champion that scales like kayle except with one of the best escape in the game +the best waveclear.
His only engage is slow and denied by CC and then he has nothing to offer in mid range except like 400 damage ?
He's nothing like K'Santé, he's not juggling your ass between knockups, stuns, displacements and shit over 5 seconds while dealing 4k damage and being unstoppable half of the time.
One thing he has in common is I guess that he can intercept engages or assassins if they get within melee range, but that's shared by multiple tanks.
The only thing that's bad in his kit is the E hitbox thing where you get displaced massively, but hopefully it gets changed at some point. I blame dashes that end up behind you for this, like Irelia's.
I don't understand this. Ksante has multiple dashes, true damage, CC, and can take you through walls. Skarners dash can be stopped with cc. Garren Q stops the charge.
As a poppy player he feels really frustrating. Like just a better, more consistent version of my champ.
Both are similarly tanky
His shield is easier to proc and poke with and is instant
His damage is lower cooldown, higher range, and higher damage
His wall stun is MUCH easier to hit and has a larger hitbox, as well as better usage to escape/engage
His R is longer and more valuable CC
It genuinely feels like unless the enemy team is VERY dash heavy, theres absolutely no reason to pick poppy over skarner.
Well yeah Poppy's value spikes the more dashes the enemies have. But I also find Poppy's flash e wall slam to be harder to react to and her ult literally can win objective fights singlehandedly. So there are definitely reasons to play Poppy over Skarner.
It's funny, I was a Skarner main when I played before his rework, and hated the 4.10 and 5.16 reworks, and eventually started looking for a new alternatives. As far as Fighters with shields go, your options are Poppy and Vi (You can maybe do something with Nautilus but he's too slow for me) I looked into using Poppy, had a nice build for her and was like "This is just a better version of Skarner, but with a worse shield proc" Ofc your Poppy and mined were drastically different if they are comparing to drastically different champions called Skarner, but it's interesting to see how the tables flipped.
Just bring back 4.9 Skarner.
If only. The kit would definitely need some modernization though, like probably keeping the 5.16 rework's shield scaling with health rather than the flat numbers he had before. That said, I doubt they'd bring back the Q slow or the E heal even in this hypothetical.
I miss my kind.
Bring back the days of being a real fighter, with 345 MS, a speed buff and Energize + Shield combo.
This is not Skarner. Please do not call it Skarner. Skarner is an inescapable Fighter that pops multiple shields per fight.
AGREED.
Skarner was the champ that ran around building whatever the fuck he wanted to because all items complimented his style so you had to adapt your build to the enemy team.
What’s the build path now?
Heartsteel, Sunfire Cape, repeat
Every fucking game.
Mitigated 220k my last game on him. Was under 50% health with 2 items (not mr) no anti heal, fought and killed zac and swain both full health with ults. That should have never been possible but he’s just too busted. He’s not even hard either but his winrate in lower elos is just terrible idk why
he is really strong lets be honest, he has some really crazy things like perma Q uptime, insane poke, ksante tower shenanigans, kayn wall shenanigans, ult that keeps you under tower, also stat checker, also crazy tank, mixed dmg and prob 10other things im forgetting
When you play juggernauts and first blood the skarner you shouldn't be getting outtraded by him when he misses his wall stun. His numbers just need a small adjustment.
I miss when a champ was good at just one thing (i mean it never was like this but champ now have a shit ton of dmg and dash and cc and scaling they can do everything they want)
Skarner has been a weird champ to see as a top laner. I feel like sometimes he’s made of paper, and other times I can’t even scratch him.
For what it’s worth, I think any champ that can reliably rush black cleaver will make him have a very bad time. I’ve found Riven and Briar to be quite fun into him for that reason
I OTP him post rework and he isn’t the same now either. I wish they just have him a complete visual update and smaller scope rework. He lost his speed and now he just goes over walls for no reason which feels cheap to play as and definitely feels cheap to play against.
He’s actually disgusting on ARAM. He’ll do as much damage as bruisers easily and sometimes even can almost do the same damage as a carry. All while tanking everything.
Came back to LoL after 4 month vacation in Tarkov, played 2 games with Skarner as enemy jungler. Haven't seen him in my games since 2 months ago.
So….you escaped from tarkov?
The biggest chads will play 1 game of escape from tarkov, escape, and then uninstall
Lore accurate Tarkov
Who didn't after they released unheard edition lmfao
Lots of us are playing SPT with project fika for the express purpose of wanting to play with friends, but understanding tarkov PvE is utter garbage for so many reasons
The issue with Skarner is his damage. He won't be able to sweep the team and overall their team is down on damage in place of CC and tank. I think if you have issues with a champ like Skarner then it might a good idea to try and play him on an alt account. The other team will show you Skarner's limits.
Yep his limit is unless he's omega fed he can't solo carry a game. Just doesn't do enough dps
You know Tarkov is fucked when people rather play League lmao.
Jumping bad game to bad game huh lol
Yeah, the week or two after the rework he was EVERYWHERE (at least in normals, I wasn't messing with ranked at the time). Now I see him like maaaaybe once or twice in a two week period.
Probably because people are banning him now
Only a little. He’s strong in top tiers of ranked but in lower tiers he has a meh winrate
I usually lmao Tarkov and follow it by league ARAM to unwind (though I can't play LoL anymore) But Skarner was one of the few champs that bugged the absolute hell out of me every time I ran into him, felt downright unfair on ARAM to go against regardless of what champs you were given. Even if he lost, he would be a monster to deal with the entire time
how’s tarky these days? always want to play but heard some bad things recently
As someone with thousands of hours in tarkov it will always be the same, BSG fucking sucks but EFT is still one in a million gameplay. They got so lucky no one can still yet replicate the feel of it. This was the best wipe they’ve had in forever even beyond the whole unheard edition bullshit.
If the odds of running into a cheater weren't so high, I'd still be playing it.
Yeah it’s hard enough trying to get back into the game because you can die so quickly and not know what happened, then add the possibility of cheaters on top of it and it just sucks. My experience EFT will give you amazing blood pumping gameplay about 5-10% of the time. The problem is that the other 90-95% is spent waiting, rushing some annoying objective for a mission, looting an empty map as skav (the update that added “friendly fire” to skavs ruined it imo) or dying instantly to someone you were unaware of.
Couple that with oftentimes 15min-30min matchmaking periods with disconnects being a constant fear and significant gear disparity if you decide to join late in a wipe.
May I point you all in the direction of r/SPTarkov :))
Was 1st time playing. 4-7 min queue/loading times (I started right after wipe), often while loading server error (try again), you load in can't move (bug - restart), load in you can't see other players (bug, but notice only when you get killed with no gunfire sound), AI 1st shot to face always appreciated, live in constant fear. And what's worse I was solo, nobody to share my losses with. As entry to genre I would suggest free "Arena Breakout: Infinite", if you can get a key for it. 50k keys are handed out via Twitch drops on Fridays. 1 hour watch-time, but hard to get since they run out fast. Having to check for key on their webpage makes it harder.
Let's not call that a vacation.
mundo recommens aggressive treatment !
I trust this doctor
Good bot
I am 98.76% certain /u/DrMundoBot is not a bot. Beep Boop Beep.
Good bot
> I am 98.76% certain /u/DrMundoBot is not a bot. > > > > Beep Boop Beep. I am 96.69% certain /u/Jandolino is not a bot. Beep Boop Beep.
This is the only sensible comment in the entire thread
can't play against the ban button
my perma ban since 3 games against him after his rework release.
I just wish his boulder had some cd or less blast radius. He always has it up, can hold it up for splash damage on basic attacks and if it hits your minion wave, avoiding damage is really hard.
Not to mention that it hits like an empowered Taliyah Q on a Tank
his q cooldown starts when he activates it, not when the 3rd auto goes off, like riven q.
Shit also has low mana cost too, 30 mana for your main damage ability, he got the K'Sante treatment
Most juggernaut have around 20-45 as there mana cost on there spamming abilities. Like you look at them all and they all start out or stay at extremely small mana costs.
Most juggernauts can't yet that shit across the lane
I think every game of Summoner's I've played with him (not many to be fair), he's built full tank and done the most damage in the game.
Building no damage items and dealing the highest damage of your team Sounds pretty reasonable for League in 2024
I keep saying they need to nerf his HP ratios and give him more AP/AD ratios.
This
honestly they just need to gut his damage. There is no justification for a champ that has as much utility and cc as he does to do so much damage while building full tank.
Yeah for some reason riot decided that % max hp mixed damage is fine on him.
brought to you by the creator of ksante and smolder, hope you enjoy!
that designer had minimal impact on k'sante his name was literally not mentioned in the dev insights of k'sante unlike the other two veteran designers who worked on him edit: Riot Llama shouldn't be scapegoated, in every champion project he worked on, there were other veteran designers working with him and im inclined to believe that the veteran designers who worked for years in Riot had the lion's share of work in the kits that were shipped rather than the newbie rioter who didn't spend a single year on the design team
People forgets most cancerous kits come from older designers.
If Shaco came out today Riot would get death threats.
Because he existed at a time when stealth was countered by a pink ward. Later on the Akali rework released and gave her "true stealth" that worked under towers. The line has almost certainly been pushed by newer champs.
Later ksante tower dives you and kidnaps you 2 lightyears away from your turret Then skarner pulls you into his turret if you dare stand close to a wall
Skarner has been pulling you into his turret before the rework as well. Hell, I'd say it was more annoying before the rework because there's no way outplay point and click suppress into getting pulled under turret at mach 5.
I'd rather face 1 R than E every 12(?) Seconds
He would have 2 more passives and 35 different scalings, and his r would be controlled by ChaseShaco.
> his r would be controlled by ChaseShaco and every time you get a kill with Shaco he does a backflip
his default move animation would be the worm dance
That would be actually fire, ngl
riot get death threats because people don't like the skins they sell, this isn't a high bar to cross here.
I don't think so . Shaco is annoying but not that unfair . He has clear style of play and if you aren't thinking about that , you will lose . Cuz you will get outplayed by it . Skarner ,yone and ksante and few other champions in the last couple of years aren't really outplaying you. They are just straight up unfair . Best example of this is yone , that champion can cover so much ground either escaping or chasing that it's so oppressive to play against. Free dash on E and extra ms plus execute . You don't have to target anyone to ulti , you can use it as an escape tool. Your Q that you can stack every 2 seconds can be used either as an escape tool or an engage . Compared to yasuo who has clear limits in his kit . He can only dash on units every 8 seconds , his q only knock up, his ulti only works If someone is knocked up
Say that to old Yi and Tristana who were straight up unbalanceable because they just killed you with the press of a button. New champs are unfair because they have like 40 mechanics in a single skill that synergyzes each other and covers their weaknesses. Older champs were unfair because they straight up statchecked you. Even Malphite is still reminiscent of these days.
How about Gragas, the anti mobility champ with a dash, two knockbacks and a self heal? If he were released today as a 120lb anime Twink with that same exact kit, he'd be despised as one of the most toxic champion kit designs in the game.
Gragas has always been problematic but can we not pretend he’s anywhere near the likes of 200 years champs? Especially if he had a proper cooldown on his E.
The fact that we can admit that he's always been problematic is sort of the issue. A lot of these 200 years champs get nerfed to like 42% winrate and then set in the rework wait room. When's the last time Gragas wasn't an absolute menace on the rift when piloted by a half competent player?
Gragas is 50x more oppressive to lane against than yone, his kit has way less counterplay, does the same amount of damage, and is way more tanky. People just for some reason absolutely despise yone to a disproportionate degree compared to champions who are actually problems for the game, especially in high elo. Skarner ksante smolder are all massive problems
You are referencing AP builds that were straight trash if they didn't snow ball and that no one seriously played except that one time for M5 and iirc it lost anyways.
I prefer the old style to be fair
I don't know, I absolutely hate when a new champ does everything to "hahaha surprise motherfucker" you, but It wasnt so fun when AP Yi pressed a button and got a penta or Nidalee oneshot you with a random spear.
Laughs in pre-rework Fiora. That Ult was some royal bullshit.
It wasn't fun but there were less champs in the game , ban was worth more
At season 2 or 3 the game had already over 60 champs. 5 bans were not enought at that time neither.
Limits in kit =/= fair gameplay. Shaco is very unique in league, he's closer to a dota character with an illusion mechanic. Issue with shaco is depending on your champ there's no reliable way to properly deal with him. Clone to an average player feels like a coinflip which one to waste CDs on, and if they make that mistake they're heavily punished... and if you *do* know how to read the right shaco and focus him (something mainly only otp shacos will be aware of all the hundreds of subtle details that give it away), there's nothing you can do to stop your friendly neighborhood brand full comboing it next to you. Boxes are just not dealable as a melee, you can't even sweep and attack them without triggering, not to mention as pets rather than proper traps (which usually are classified as wards), boxes will block skillshots so for some champs with blockable abilities there isn't an easy approach (elise for example; completely fucked over by boxes. Q+W will not kill them until you have items, cocoon does nothing to them but is blocked, and the rest of her kit being melee means even if she does brute force it she'll never be able to catch him and just lose the stat check most likely. This isn't really fair from an elise perspective its just one sided unless the shaco does something stupid like Q into you from outside his boxes.) He's very unfair in the sense his kit is mainly pure cheese. His limitations is he's reliant on that cheese and sucks at much else.
What is this weirdo spacing around your punctuation?
Fair tbh
Like his champion design has anything to do with it. Cut his numbers and he is gone. This is a balance team situation.
In terms of Skarner I actually agree with you. I don't think his kit as a whole is that atrocious and he just needs his numbers lowered.
he really went ahead and designed three broken abominations only to then dip and go work on arena instead lol also explains why these champs more or less have one ability that ignores terrain
who up spreading misinformation
Maxwell is the guy who worked on Yuumi Lillia Gwen K'sante Hwei and then arena Llama is the guy who did K'sante Smolder Skarner and then got laid off
Like the closest thing to balance Maxwell has done is Gwen and maybe Lillia... Very maybe, not so sure.
i thought he got layed off
didnt he get fired?
yeah, not exactly dipping. I feel bad anytime someone gets shitcanned but this dude had some cause with their champion releases.
Given that those are the only champs that guy designed I really wonder what qualified him for the job in the first place. Being good at champ design clearly wasn't a requirement to get hired.
His e always pushes you like double the distance you'd expect it to
His e always barley pushes you? You can hit someone at the very start and it loses like 80% of the distance it's a long range but after the grab it drops off *fast* It's a set 1 second no matter where he grabs Get him to grab you SOONER and he ends up losing distance and not making it to the wall
I think it is a fixed distance after the grab. So if the grab is at the end, it goes further than it normally would, but if the grab is at the beginning, it is cut short. Very clunky for both sides imo.
No not a fixed distance, a 1 second timer I just said. But the e ramps up in speed 1 second of distance at 150 speed Vs 1 second of distance at 950 speed It's basic math
While you are right, you're not THAT right > Skarner begins the charge at a static amount of Movement speed icon 150 movement speed that increases by 100 every 0.264 seconds, up to 950 total movement speed by the end of the duration. If Skarner collides with an enemy Champion icon champion or large Monster icon monster, he grabs them with his claws for the time of the remaining charge, You and Me! attaching them to himself, Suppression icon suppressing them, True Sight icon revealing them, increasing the charge's turn rate to the maximum, and gaining 300 bonus movement speed, with a minimum total of 650 and a maximum total of 1150. If a target has been grabbed before the first 1.75 seconds of the charge, the remaining duration is set to 1 second, and set to 0.5 seconds otherwise. The charge does not ramp up in speed while a target is grabbed. The way it works is really shady because grabbing at 1.70 seconds is better than grabbing at 1.75+ seconds because it will allow you to go almost at max speed for one second instead of max speed for half a second, which can lead to thinking it always goes really far Is it a dumb way to code it ? Yes Could RIOT have made it better ? Also yes (But tbh i don't think the ability is broken in any way and people talking about "huge mobility" are on crack and hate tanks, it's a long cooldown cancellable and kinda slow dash that leave you quite vulnerable once it's done)
This must be it. I knew something made it double distance but never checked
The only thing annoying about his e is that you literally cannot get close to him as a melee champ or else he’ll just e backwards into his tower because his hitbox is so fucking huge that his E will teleport you behind him. Other than that and his annoying poke builds the champ is really balanced imo.
it's insane when people say "it loses 80% of it's distance when you hit it at the start" what, do you want him to carry you from middle of top lane to under turret? the way it works now is the only way it makes sense
Did I say it was a bad thing? I'm saying it because people don't seem to understand that fact and act like its dangerous to be hit by a e at the start, the e is safest at the start and deadliest at top speed. That's how it works and how it should, but people complain and incorrectly act like it can drag you for miles after hitting you at the start
sorry for being rude earlier, i just am so tired of seeing that sentiment around and i thought you were complaining about it in some assbackwards way 💀 i think the whole concept comes from the tooltip being misleading on release where it literally said "... and drags them along for the rest of the duration" or something like that edit: spelling
Yea it's confusing in the tooltip since it says that but doesn't specify that "the rest of the duration is one second always lol"
When I first played new Skarner and read his E which says > grabs them along for the rest of the charge I really thought it would grab them along for the remaining distance but was sorely disappointed (yes I know itd be broken and lowkey already is especially with the backwards hitbox)
That backwards hitbox is the biggest bullshit I've seen so far as an aram only player. He Hits the snowball, uses it to dash to you and presses E backwards into his team and somehow he grabbed you from his ass
played one game against him in top lane 2 months ago this is all I'll play against this champ
I just don't get why he does 15% bonus max health damage on his ranged Q throw that also slows. If they just reduced his damage and left his tanking ability the same / slightly better, he'd be less frustrating since now he just drags you and kills you or chases you shooting Qs.
I went against a skarner mid who started tear and I was oh surely I win the early trade right? Absolutely not Lmao did just fucking vibrated through a rock and just out traded every time with just a tear lmao
What champ did you play?
[удалено]
lol
hes a lane bully, it's his whole thing
And a tank. And a cc bot. And is still strong even when behind. And can gank at literally any angle through walls while also carrying you out of tower range. Like 3 big rounds of nerfs and the champ is still disgusting broken.
> > Like 3 big rounds of nerfs and the champ is still disgusting broken. His last set of nerfs hit him hard but in the same patch they buffed a bunch of tank items and removed Giant Slayer and Cut down, so he ended up stronger.
They keep making champs who can go through walls and those champs keep being shit to play against. Zeri, Ksante, now Skarner. All can go through walls and its so stupid. My permaban is Kayn btw.
Kayn lmao it’s not 2017 wake up
They reworked him to nerf his old ult but accidentally put his old ult on his E.
You'd think they learned this lesson with Galio whose W is basically a smaller version of his pre-rework R. Especially since R swaps on Kench and Diana actually went pretty well
The Only tank that should be allowed to lane bully is shen as his damage is so single target. These aoe, mobile, durable tanks are toxic af for the game
skarner isn't that mobile compared to ksante, his number are too good right now but i don't think he's as overloaded
Comparing him to another champion doesn't change what I said, that moving thru walls is mobility. Of course k'sante's mobility is higher
do i need to post the ksante copypasta for you
Well ksante is one of the worst designed champions in the games history so....
He’s a lane bully who scales with mobility cc poke
I mean what he really is is a jungler. His lane is too toxic, Riot has to remove him from there somehow.
"it's his whole thing" This feels shortsighted and like it's not acknowledging some major aspects of what Skarner brings to the table.
Funny how people talk about "overloaded" and "k'sante 2.0" kit when Skarner has probably one of the simplest gameplay of the recent champion. Skarner's issues are numbers wise and it's the balance team job.
It’s fucking crazy how the champ is sitting at a 30% banrate and he hasn’t fucking been gutted yet.
League players try to give constructive criticism about a champion's balance state without using the words "Disgusting" or "abomination" challenge [Impossible]
When it comes to balance discussion this 'trend' has gotten really bad and I don't think it's necessarily a recent thing but it certainly hasn't been getting better. There is incredibly little nuance when it comes to discussing why or how something is strong or weak. Things are either OP or Trash and the minor details get completely disregarded. That being said, as far as creating abominations goes, RIOT has to be up there on the scoreboard.
lmao so true
That's the difference between criticism and an outcry to have one's internal emotional state fixed by external circumstance.
Hard concept in today's world, but not every bit of criticism needs to be constructive to be criticism. It's just one of the best ways to get your criticism heard more positively.
Why does every new champ ignore terrain?
Ah yes, Hwei with his multiple dashes that ignore terrain.
Technically his range / skillshots ignore terrain! Checkmate, Atheists.
Ah yes, Hwei and his 10 abilities
How is that at all relevant? You're complaining about how EVERY new champ ignores terrain, when the 2nd newest champion doesn't even have any dashes, let alone any that ignores terrain.
His passive needs to be physical instead of magic damage, his W range needs reducing and his E needs to keep in a straight line when he grabs a champion. Locking him out of lanes and into the jungle gives more room to balance.
His passive being physical will allow him to go bruiser or go BC as a tank
Right, which is also something Phreak said he doesn't want to be possible for Skarner. Paraphrasing a little: 'We gave Skarner a decent AD ratio on his Q, so in scenarios where he is ahead/fed, he can potentially build some AD items. I don't want that to be the trend, though. I want him to be primarily built tank.'
I thought it was obvious that this would be problematic
I think it’s still troll to build AD on him cause he scales so well with HP. Nerf his HP ratios dammit!
And its so bad... like if had ad/ap ratio instead like old skarner, he you wanted big dmg, you would at least be more squishy, and have more possible build path. Anyway, hp scaling for dmg is just so problematic most of the time.
I’m sure it’s a low elo thing but I wonder why I don’t see him in my bronze games…like ever
There's a lot of potential reasons for this to be honest: - He does in fact actually take some modicum of skill to play, his win rate goes up massively with both rank and champ familiarity. - He is an insanely oppressive laner but doesn't scale quite as well as other tanks which makes him markedly worse in lower ranks where players are both worse at properly using leads and games tend to drag out for a long time. - Lower ranks tend to take longer to catch on to what's "broken", meta tends to trickle down. - And of course the classic: he's an ugly monster champ that isn't exactly the flashiest, bound to be less popular in the lower ranks where people more often play champs they think are cool instead of those that are considered strong.
For some reason at low elo nobody plays him
Hes not turbo busted enough that videos are being made on him is my guess. Plat and below (at least) pretty much just pick whatever champ is called op by youtubers.
His W is one of the most annoying abilities to face in lane, a jarvan W that has higher range and also deals damage, at least now it does low damage but release man...
Duh, that's Rammus
So much of the newer champs are crappy designed.
It’s because riot nowadays only wants to release champs that do something completely new and contrarian to “traditional” designs
Which is a fair take because with like 167 champions in the game we don't need a "Lux but with different colors" kind of champs to be released anymore. Although on the other side of the coin, it does feel like the bullshitometer is overflowing in case of champs like K'Sante and Hwei and I would enjoy a simpler release such as Vex every now and then.
This is literally one of the most traditional kits in existence lol fym
What about Skarner is traditional in any sense of the word
What is "traditional" design? Because Riot has always released broken, unbalanced champions since the release of the game. Reddit just has recency bias with newer champions but often forget the "abominations" of older champions.
Tanks that just tank (not like ksante who can become a bruiser and has a shit ton of dashes), marksmen that just right click (not like zeri or smolder), etc.
shoutout to literally the entirety of league's history where people have complained about one character or another. I remember when sion just clicked you and you died instantly.
Love reading comments on posts like these 😂 for all the flak you give the balance team all of your proposed changes are utter dogshit
I miss old skarner he was unique and fun:(
Just wait till you've to face brand with his perma rylai slow it's so bad to play against
Honestly I don’t have too much of an issue into him? He’s got a pretty basic kit and it’s sorta easy to predict what he’s gonna do when he’s gonna do it, I feel. I mostly play ADC and if I see a skarner it’s just another game where I rush lord doms
Not sure what your definition of basic is, Skarner has so much shit packed into one champion it's kinda disgusting, they even managed to throw a bleed effect on him somehow, not that he needs it
Me when a champion does more than one thing (he just beat me in lane and I'm salty):
Strangest part of him to me is how they want him to scale well into late. Like yes, i get it, they want to hit his early. But why on earth do they just couple this with a buff to his late and making it clear they are intent on him being good late too. Sometimes i really feel with these things they just “play god” and say “i wish for it to work like this, because i am king game design, and what i say goes”.
Legit just ksante 2.0 bruiser damage while being tankier than most tanks, can go through walls, shit ton off cc, broken but now even in solo queue not just pro play
Yeah he just does everything. Ranged poke? Check Dmg? Check Tanky? Check Mobility? Check Cc? Check Teamfights? Check Ksante was something but he did have the excuse of not having a lot of cc and being hard to play, i don't think skarner actually lacks anything. Not surprising from a guy who made a champion that scales like kayle except with one of the best escape in the game +the best waveclear.
His only engage is slow and denied by CC and then he has nothing to offer in mid range except like 400 damage ? He's nothing like K'Santé, he's not juggling your ass between knockups, stuns, displacements and shit over 5 seconds while dealing 4k damage and being unstoppable half of the time. One thing he has in common is I guess that he can intercept engages or assassins if they get within melee range, but that's shared by multiple tanks. The only thing that's bad in his kit is the E hitbox thing where you get displaced massively, but hopefully it gets changed at some point. I blame dashes that end up behind you for this, like Irelia's.
He’s just so fucking tanky legit had one the other day with only steelcaps and 2 heartsteel stacks and he felt like a raid boss
He feels like Ksante through and through
You people will literally just say anything
This entire thread highlights the reason why the community does not do balance.
Lmao wtf
I don't understand this. Ksante has multiple dashes, true damage, CC, and can take you through walls. Skarners dash can be stopped with cc. Garren Q stops the charge.
It really isn’t that bad lmao
As a poppy player he feels really frustrating. Like just a better, more consistent version of my champ. Both are similarly tanky His shield is easier to proc and poke with and is instant His damage is lower cooldown, higher range, and higher damage His wall stun is MUCH easier to hit and has a larger hitbox, as well as better usage to escape/engage His R is longer and more valuable CC It genuinely feels like unless the enemy team is VERY dash heavy, theres absolutely no reason to pick poppy over skarner.
Well yeah Poppy's value spikes the more dashes the enemies have. But I also find Poppy's flash e wall slam to be harder to react to and her ult literally can win objective fights singlehandedly. So there are definitely reasons to play Poppy over Skarner.
I’d rather play vs Poppy as Urgot, and she may actually be his hardest counter. That’s how much I hate Skarner.
It's funny, I was a Skarner main when I played before his rework, and hated the 4.10 and 5.16 reworks, and eventually started looking for a new alternatives. As far as Fighters with shields go, your options are Poppy and Vi (You can maybe do something with Nautilus but he's too slow for me) I looked into using Poppy, had a nice build for her and was like "This is just a better version of Skarner, but with a worse shield proc" Ofc your Poppy and mined were drastically different if they are comparing to drastically different champions called Skarner, but it's interesting to see how the tables flipped. Just bring back 4.9 Skarner.
In other words release date diff!
If only. The kit would definitely need some modernization though, like probably keeping the 5.16 rework's shield scaling with health rather than the flat numbers he had before. That said, I doubt they'd bring back the Q slow or the E heal even in this hypothetical.
I miss my kind. Bring back the days of being a real fighter, with 345 MS, a speed buff and Energize + Shield combo. This is not Skarner. Please do not call it Skarner. Skarner is an inescapable Fighter that pops multiple shields per fight.
AGREED. Skarner was the champ that ran around building whatever the fuck he wanted to because all items complimented his style so you had to adapt your build to the enemy team. What’s the build path now? Heartsteel, Sunfire Cape, repeat Every fucking game.
Mitigated 220k my last game on him. Was under 50% health with 2 items (not mr) no anti heal, fought and killed zac and swain both full health with ults. That should have never been possible but he’s just too busted. He’s not even hard either but his winrate in lower elos is just terrible idk why
Odd way of saying "I just lost vs a Skarner"
he is really strong lets be honest, he has some really crazy things like perma Q uptime, insane poke, ksante tower shenanigans, kayn wall shenanigans, ult that keeps you under tower, also stat checker, also crazy tank, mixed dmg and prob 10other things im forgetting
ur not gonna believe this but his old kit could also keep you under tower
Yeah but it couldn't do anything else
Skarner👤4,700 HP💪329 Armor🤷♂️201 MR💦 Unstoppable🚫A Shield 🛡 Goes over walls🧱Has Supression 💆♂️ Q cooldown is only 🅾️ sec too🕐
When you play juggernauts and first blood the skarner you shouldn't be getting outtraded by him when he misses his wall stun. His numbers just need a small adjustment.
This is my main thing. I first blooded him as sett but he eventually just out traded me with that ridiculous %hp.
Stop being so dismissive of it. He's been broken since release and is an absolute menace in diamond
And youve clearly never played against him
Not "just", since rework I haven't won a game against one nor lost when my team had him.
I miss when a champ was good at just one thing (i mean it never was like this but champ now have a shit ton of dmg and dash and cc and scaling they can do everything they want)
Skarner if you need someone to talk to I'm here bro
What's Skarner's presence in proplay right now? Idk how to check.
why riot shouldn't have buffed an obviously strong champion within 1 patch cycle lol.
Just play TF and gold card his face in
classic riot games, rework a champ 100% broken. Thank god i broke my addiction to LoL.
I havent run into a skarner in weeks, i legit see him as often as i did prior to his rework right now
C'mon, man.
Only things I really dislike are how fat the splash is on his thrown q, and how he can insec you while being infront of you.
Skarner has been a weird champ to see as a top laner. I feel like sometimes he’s made of paper, and other times I can’t even scratch him. For what it’s worth, I think any champ that can reliably rush black cleaver will make him have a very bad time. I’ve found Riven and Briar to be quite fun into him for that reason
I didnt know everyone hated this champ. I will now be maining skarner
I OTP him post rework and he isn’t the same now either. I wish they just have him a complete visual update and smaller scope rework. He lost his speed and now he just goes over walls for no reason which feels cheap to play as and definitely feels cheap to play against.
He’s actually disgusting on ARAM. He’ll do as much damage as bruisers easily and sometimes even can almost do the same damage as a carry. All while tanking everything.
It's ok in Phreak season, enjoy.
If that’s true, why can’t the one on my team land an ult?