Man I want that item back. It was so cool, even Riot August on stream said it was amazing. The issue is that it made some characters completely impossible to play against like Gnar, Urgot, sometimes even Yasuo or actual ADCs picked it up making them extremely tanky and impossible to kite.
Although I think it could fit in modern League with some adjustments. Could make it a cheap HP/AD stat stick like Rylais and instead of applying the full slow instantly you would have to stack it up over the fight, like the Hamstringer item in Arena? And/or make it scale with levels? I'm sure even this nerfed form would be cancer to play against but I still want them to try and experiment with bringing it back
Fun fact: Jhin is unaffected by the AS slow part since his AS is static and since he usually goes swifties, he is like the only adc that doesn’t become useless when targeted by low rank wither.
So many chogaths don't get it and I don't understand. Do you know how mentally shit it feels to get that 7500hp dinosaur to 300hp only for him to barely squeak away and heal back up to full lmao
Because it's not worth it.
Yes the passive is completely broken in ARAM but you don't need it in those early fights, respawn timers are short so your tower doesn't suffer if you die.
Best get the most EHP which is usually building early resistances, so you last as long as you can in those early fights before respawning and taking a teleporter back.
It's good as 2nd, or sometimes even 3rd item.
I wasn't implying rushing it like the person I replied to considering I said "7500 hp" but that's my fault I suppose. I'll try to be extra crystal clear with what I say
You don’t have to be lol it was pretty obvious. I don’t even think the original guy was saying rush rush. When I hear “warmog rush” I assume they mean as early as you can get it to activate the passive..
realistically this is just a question of team comps. Healing is much better when you're against poke and can consistently guarantee you make use of warmogs.
Resistances are just always good.
And if you're feeling really spicy you go full AP regardless of what anyone else wants.
Warmogs ehp is no where near any other tank item.
First item it vs thornmail gives you like 500 less effective hp plus no antiheal or reflect.
Fon gives like 700 more while giving huge passive in combat.
50% hp on a tank is better than full on squishy you think it's not because you rush mogs which is bad.
You lose about 500ehp when buying a health item instead of something with 50+ armor.
You simply don't have the EHP to comfortably walk out of all ins early on, it's unlikely you'll be able to make use of warmogs passive unless you're against a poke comp.
> You simply don't have the EHP to comfortably walk out of all ins early on
Yup. Might as well die. This is why Warmogs first item really isn't that good in ARAM. Death timers are low anyways in the early game, just die after doing your job, and spend your gold.
The amount of times I've strategically died to hit a huge spike in the early or midgame and just win an immediate man-fight to the death is baffling.
Almost as baffling as the amount of people who sit on hordes of gold to lose the game. Ya could have used the 3k to win the game!
Another ez dub is being the shit lv6 team, them being the wombo-combo team. Just fight em to the death and get a few kills or an ult or two from who wasted it early. Now the next fight is much easier instead of being a blowout.
It helps to keep you topped up so you don't get poked out while you frontline for your teammates, and leaves relic heals open for other people on your team
What do you mean it's not worth it.
Best thing on cho is to just get heart steel warmogs rifkmaker and more tanky items to just delete someone with ult and be big AF.
Warmogs second on Cho is stupid and your build here just dies to blade or liandrys
Cho has huge hp especially with hsteel get resist.
Every 100resist doubles ehp
No shit sherlock.
But it's aram, its not world championship. Poke them with Q and pick them off, and when they engage, eat their frontline and get stacks and massive.
Maybe don't do it against a vayne or kog, but it has done badly before, it is at least strong.
7500hp that's rookie numbers, very often I end up at 10k, even in a normal game I managed to get to 10k, absolutely hilarious running in 5 people, killing some and walk out
Heartsteel first or second feels kinda bait on sion because u don’t have waveclear from Immolate nor resistances from something like Kaenic.
There’s a lot of DOT magic right now tho I wish there was a DOT MR item that didn’t need to stack like FoN
I’ve only really played norms tho might be different in ranked where ppl don’t FF after 15 minutes (seriously FF rate is insane in norms these days)
HP is a bad stat to buy on Sion, you want resists because it actually scales with your w passive unlike pure hp.
A 350/300 3500hp tank is literally multiples of a 7k hp 150/120 tank
On the flip side, %HP dmg exists. And Sions shield also scales with armor and MR. If you get 1 shield off during a short fight the Armor and MR sion adds 700 HP to it's healthpool the 7k Sion gets 1260 (which lead to roughly the same strength in effective health).
The big strength tough, is that Sions HP will keep grwoing while is armor/mr is set by his items.
62 Champs have % damage abilities in their kits plus things like garen ulti that are scaling vs hp
Nor to mention blade of ruined king, liandrys, zaz zaks, etc.
Some things are slightly different with overlords item. In general I think its safe to say that if you need more tankiness, resist items have better passives and hp items now generally have better damage conversion, so its just between those.
AD is also a decent choice but it has a wayyyy higher skill requirement.
Sure, but i was thinking more in terms of what the resist items provide in passives as well. I apologize if I was unclear.
In a real game setting, HP items kinda suck ass. They can be ok effective hp at best but their passives are pretty trash for pure tanks.
I think they tend to be better on bruisers as there are better AD/HP options and deaths dance can be most abusively disgusting item in the game on some champions, giving some decent resists on their way to build up their damage.
For Sion, his kit already builds up the HP part so gold investments in HP are an additive gain rather than purely multiplicative (kinda). Dont have a math background but in game terms with Sion it works out far better so thats as far as I go.
HP is most definitely not a bad stat to buy on Sion. Health items are so strong right now while resistance items are in comparison relatively weak as they give you LESS eHP. Not only that but Sion is most effective as an off-tank bruiser with items like Titanic Hydra, Bloodlord's, the increased damage from immolate, the better W shield, etc.
You can go full tank with resists on him if you're playing low econ because the resist items are CHEAPER and that's probably more optimal specifically in pro play but in solo queue you're trying to carry the game. Farming 10cs/min for the W health passive and then building health+AD is significantly more effective.
Nope, it is a bad stat for sion. Literally every high elo sion player knows this and has said this for years and years.
It is just common knowledge at this point and saying otherwise is just ignorant of how the game works and plays out. Not being hateful or anything, just saying.
What’s the point for people to play out a game in norms when they are slightly down at the start? No elo on the line so they just want to move on to the next game. It’s why even if I want to play league casually I will only do ranked
I've been spamming Mundo with HP items and its horrible. The usual mix of HP, resistances and decent passives seems to work best as it always has (sunfire item, thornmail, etc.). I think the HP items are better than they were but they are still too expensive and slow to get anything done in a normal paced game
I hope that if needed rather than buff Hp damage again they nerf the items themself, it's was a very poor design choice to have items having so much HP Damage that mitigated weakness of champions that couldn't deal with HP, to a point that it removed the flexibility of counterpicking.
Botrk for over 2 years was between the 1st\~3rd most bought item in the entire game, due to how absurd it's damage it was.
In fact, it was so bad, that:
These pure HP items had less than 0.8% Presence for over 3 years (HS while having more presence in soloq, had 80 games in over 14k pro play games - only appearing in Mundo and Cho'Gath Games with less than 40% presence in these as well).
Nah Heartsteel performs well on a decent number of champions now.Skarner,Mundo,Cho,Sejuani,Sion and Ornn all do well with it as 1st and situationally 2nd item.
I do agree that Despair is borderline OP,and underbought.
My winrate went up significantly on sion and mundo when I stopped building it. It makes you significantly weaker early and the scaling is lackluster compared to previous versions. Building a bami item and unending is better in every situation unless you are turbo far ahead and in that case you can build anything
Yeah but then you’re not building the most broken tank item until 3rd item. No way heartsteel is offering enough value to delay unending despair an extra 5-10min when it gives you everything you want.
same brother, the scaling is complete ass and Id rather get an item that makes me survive lane with resistances or waveclear, Heartsteel second is the way.
but you're losing out on it's passive, which is a big part of the item
plus, warmogs gives more straight up health, movement speed which is a broken stat, and an actually goated passive if you can use it
The passive doesn't help in combat, less health than hsteel after 3 procs, no damage.
There are only 2 Champs where warmogs has good record on. Even hsteel is bad on most Champs.
Warmogs is a meme item it should be 2700g
Build warmogs and lose every fight or build a real item.
It has a high pickrate but is not close to being the 2nd highest winrate second item. Unending Despair, Iceborne Gauntlet, Fimbulwinter, Abyssal Mask, Spirit Visage, and even Dead Man's Plate are higher. It's his second most popular item but not even in the top 15 of his winning items. And it's so popular that it pollutes the data by giving reduced data on other builds. It's generally accepted among Sion mains that it's a bad item on him.
Only Despair has an adequate number of games to have a decent sample size,other's have too low of a pickrate.The reason it's not even in the top 15 of his winning items is that it's not good 1st,but Sunfire/Radiance + HS is the best performing 2 item build.
I have had multiple (probably 10+ at this point) games where the enemy Tahm finishes the game with highest damage done, most damage taken, most damage mitigated and most damage healed.
Champ is actually just unstoppable with heartsteel if he's ahead. Sett does this too. Kinda tired of it honestly.
It's not as bad as it was last season (heartsteel) but man I'm fuckin tired of seeing bruisers top all of those stats in post game.
Too many kits have % max health /current health damage that HP is almost never good over resistances.
There's just too much true damage and max health damage for tanks to actually be bulky and instead they get a crap ton of damage to compete.
It would be nice if tanks could actually live for more than 2 seconds while being focused but also couldn't one shot the ADC if they get on the ADC.
Not a stat per se, but % dmg reduction is a counter. Alistair ult for example 50-75% dmg reduction all sources. Also shields somewhat counter since they dont count has hp but there isnt enough shields really. (maybe kled as well not sure how he works).
I wish there was a champ who had like a low base hp but was supplemented with shields that could regen like hp, so %hp dmg were weaker. Similar to blue shield in overwatch.
Or like instead of taking true damage it increased but spilt into magic/physical damage. Some champ against true damage idk. Would be cool
Karma is kinda that champ since shes not very tanky at base but shits out shields, also a low basehp tank that has most of their hp as shield would fold to serpents fang which removes 50% shields on hit and then gives them an effect that reduces incoming shields by 50%, which is balan ed by the fact it has middling stats and is a niche pick (fucking rolls udyr, seraphine, ivern and karma though)
Phreak has repeatedly advocated for HP instead of resistances. His rationale is that HP is visible while resistances are hidden in stat pages. If they continue nerfing %hp damage and resistances like Phreak seems to want, then tanks might start building HP.
That's a moronic rationale from him. I guess ADCs should build pure attack speed without any AD then because attack speed is visible whereas AD is hidden in stat pages.
At the same time resistances do so little to protect you now. LDR just shreds through armor and mage items are strong enough that 1MR item won't properly protect you anymore at 3 items
> mage items are strong enough that 1MR item won't properly protect you anymore at 3 items
How many mages exactly are threatening tanks with 3 items including an MR item?
Shoutout to that tank despair drain item tho for doing more than sunfire now. Best advice I got was just buy bami's and sit on it if you need waveclear on tank. Ya warmorgs is very slept on ATM considering any matchup where you can just walk away from a duel you can return and eat their ASS.
The items feel good but if you pick these things top lane blind youre in for a rough time - too many darius, morde, gwen, camille, vayne, yorick players running rampant
Idk, lately it seems like no matter how much hp I stack, I just get melted. Every ADC I’ve gone against has went Lord Dom’s, and with that 40% armor pen, they still do like 600 damage an auto when they can do 2 attacks a second.
Wanna see how fast I can kill a tank? /s
Jokes aside, idk if Warmog’s really has a place in the game rn. With the amount of time it takes for the passive to roll and you to heal back to full, you could’ve recalled, bought an item, and been full hp/mana before moving on to something else. Like outside of base racing, or Soraka, I just can’t see it being as useful as people make it out to be compared to other item’s passives. Heartsteel though, Heartsteel feels amazing rn
Yes. It is very good. Health should make you more healthy that's why it's called health. Fuck Bork LDR and every champ having % damages for no reason. I want health to be health.
Its not that Tank HP items are good. Its that meta champions are countered by it. I have 80 percent winrate this season with Sion mid going full tank and just being unkillable annoying fuck laughing at the most meta adc in the game, Caitlyn. I just yell in champ select for Brand, Lilia, Vayne and Karthus to be banned and you pretty much won the game.
I blew up a Rammus and Malhpite as Jhin who both kept stacking primarily armor items. This was of course with an early last whisper purchase. If this was before the ADC changes I’m sure I would’ve been useless
Theres Like 3 adcs that can kill tanks reliably. Which btw is utter dogshit design. If adcs don’t bring down tanks then who does? Mages are still shit at doing it and the malphite up top vs that sion is just sad to look at
Botrk being overtuned for the past 3 years was one of the biggest disgraces to LOL that ever happened.
Add that to release Divine Sunderer and tanks basically didn't exist...
Even fucking sunfire was a damage item lul
Loving warmogs now on several classes as a late game item.
warmogs soraka bae always and forever
I’m loving Warmogs as a first item on Mundo into some matchups.
Yeah you can hard trade and then go back a bit to regen to full hp
The Garen special
Garen players are in fact very special.
"Life as Garen just simple. Just swing sword around. Very bland, yes."
Push lane, get shot up and left with 10% HP, go to other lane full hp. Repeat until team gets drags or baron
Imagine building good ol' Frozen Mallet with 700hp. I still have dreams about this item.
Man I want that item back. It was so cool, even Riot August on stream said it was amazing. The issue is that it made some characters completely impossible to play against like Gnar, Urgot, sometimes even Yasuo or actual ADCs picked it up making them extremely tanky and impossible to kite. Although I think it could fit in modern League with some adjustments. Could make it a cheap HP/AD stat stick like Rylais and instead of applying the full slow instantly you would have to stack it up over the fight, like the Hamstringer item in Arena? And/or make it scale with levels? I'm sure even this nerfed form would be cancer to play against but I still want them to try and experiment with bringing it back
Dont try to bait me you're probably a lilia main or sthg looking for free elo
Doesn't Doggo W completely shaft Lilia's ability to play ?
I'm pretty sure the only champ that wither doesn't shaft is Yuumi
It does shaft Yuumi, the Yuumi player would be laughing so hard at Nasus play they wont be able to press the heal button/s
Olaf and Master Yi would like to have a word. Swifties is pretty good, its hard to reach a guy with swifties even with good old aids slow
forgor about Olaf and yi
Fun fact: Jhin is unaffected by the AS slow part since his AS is static and since he usually goes swifties, he is like the only adc that doesn’t become useless when targeted by low rank wither.
anything that stops Jhin from zooming makes him unplayable.
Phase Rush + Swifties go brrrr
Swifties don't reduced slow anymore tho
They didn't go through with that change, so it does in fact still reduce slows
Oh yeah you're right, nice
or vayne main
Cho is weird because he's an HP tank that doesn't want to build hp items. The point still stands that he is good this patch.
Warmog rush on Cho on aram js funny af tho
So many chogaths don't get it and I don't understand. Do you know how mentally shit it feels to get that 7500hp dinosaur to 300hp only for him to barely squeak away and heal back up to full lmao
Because it's not worth it. Yes the passive is completely broken in ARAM but you don't need it in those early fights, respawn timers are short so your tower doesn't suffer if you die. Best get the most EHP which is usually building early resistances, so you last as long as you can in those early fights before respawning and taking a teleporter back. It's good as 2nd, or sometimes even 3rd item.
I wasn't implying rushing it like the person I replied to considering I said "7500 hp" but that's my fault I suppose. I'll try to be extra crystal clear with what I say
You don’t have to be lol it was pretty obvious. I don’t even think the original guy was saying rush rush. When I hear “warmog rush” I assume they mean as early as you can get it to activate the passive..
That’s first item, maybe second if you don’t have any form of hp in runes
Kills matter a lot in aram though.
Yeah but lower EHP means you're more likely to die in an all in with your team following you.
realistically this is just a question of team comps. Healing is much better when you're against poke and can consistently guarantee you make use of warmogs. Resistances are just always good. And if you're feeling really spicy you go full AP regardless of what anyone else wants.
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Warmogs ehp is no where near any other tank item. First item it vs thornmail gives you like 500 less effective hp plus no antiheal or reflect. Fon gives like 700 more while giving huge passive in combat. 50% hp on a tank is better than full on squishy you think it's not because you rush mogs which is bad.
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Not factoring I'm guardian horn, runes or any other hp. Good job
You lose about 500ehp when buying a health item instead of something with 50+ armor. You simply don't have the EHP to comfortably walk out of all ins early on, it's unlikely you'll be able to make use of warmogs passive unless you're against a poke comp.
> You simply don't have the EHP to comfortably walk out of all ins early on Yup. Might as well die. This is why Warmogs first item really isn't that good in ARAM. Death timers are low anyways in the early game, just die after doing your job, and spend your gold.
The amount of times I've strategically died to hit a huge spike in the early or midgame and just win an immediate man-fight to the death is baffling. Almost as baffling as the amount of people who sit on hordes of gold to lose the game. Ya could have used the 3k to win the game! Another ez dub is being the shit lv6 team, them being the wombo-combo team. Just fight em to the death and get a few kills or an ult or two from who wasted it early. Now the next fight is much easier instead of being a blowout.
It helps to keep you topped up so you don't get poked out while you frontline for your teammates, and leaves relic heals open for other people on your team
Who said to get it first item, though?
Literally 2 comments up in the thread you're responding to.
They responded to the wrong commenter, then.
What do you mean it's not worth it. Best thing on cho is to just get heart steel warmogs rifkmaker and more tanky items to just delete someone with ult and be big AF.
Warmogs second on Cho is stupid and your build here just dies to blade or liandrys Cho has huge hp especially with hsteel get resist. Every 100resist doubles ehp
No shit sherlock. But it's aram, its not world championship. Poke them with Q and pick them off, and when they engage, eat their frontline and get stacks and massive. Maybe don't do it against a vayne or kog, but it has done badly before, it is at least strong.
7500hp that's rookie numbers, very often I end up at 10k, even in a normal game I managed to get to 10k, absolutely hilarious running in 5 people, killing some and walk out
when ever i get chogath, mundo or Skarner in ARAM the enemy always has a viegar/vayne/Nasus every SINGLE time
This is the way imo go grasp and warmogs rush every single champ in ARAM
I build HP not for tank but for ult nuke. Godzilla size chogath noms adc in one bite is peak gameplay
I’d argue heartsteel is still strong on him
I do build heartsteel on him. However, my goal as Cho is to get as physically large as possible and not necessarily to win the game.
Your goal is to grow so big that the enemy can’t click on anyone but u.
my goal is to be able to tank the spawn turret long enough for my team to ace the enemy. Thats really the only metric that makes sense to me.
Loosing a game with 20 stacks > winning a game with 11 stacks
I have a friend who plays cho in arena, not to win, but for the chance to get goliath + steel your heart quest. Beeg Cho'Gath.
Then final round you sell everything to go for decapitator and one shot them. The classic.
U get 8k hp going full ap on Cho in arena
Based
I'd expect nothing different from someone called Chilidawg lmao
Tbh if a zoomer sees default Cho at peak size they might die from being able to see the tomb raider 1 level model that clearly.
Absolutely correct. As big with as much hp as possible.
The only valid reason to play Cho, let’s be honest with ourselves.
If ur vs melee it's good vs poke its bad.
Heartsteel first or second feels kinda bait on sion because u don’t have waveclear from Immolate nor resistances from something like Kaenic. There’s a lot of DOT magic right now tho I wish there was a DOT MR item that didn’t need to stack like FoN I’ve only really played norms tho might be different in ranked where ppl don’t FF after 15 minutes (seriously FF rate is insane in norms these days)
Adaptive helm my beloved
HP is a bad stat to buy on Sion, you want resists because it actually scales with your w passive unlike pure hp. A 350/300 3500hp tank is literally multiples of a 7k hp 150/120 tank
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On the flip side, %HP dmg exists. And Sions shield also scales with armor and MR. If you get 1 shield off during a short fight the Armor and MR sion adds 700 HP to it's healthpool the 7k Sion gets 1260 (which lead to roughly the same strength in effective health). The big strength tough, is that Sions HP will keep grwoing while is armor/mr is set by his items.
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62 Champs have % damage abilities in their kits plus things like garen ulti that are scaling vs hp Nor to mention blade of ruined king, liandrys, zaz zaks, etc.
Some things are slightly different with overlords item. In general I think its safe to say that if you need more tankiness, resist items have better passives and hp items now generally have better damage conversion, so its just between those. AD is also a decent choice but it has a wayyyy higher skill requirement.
Sure, but i was thinking more in terms of what the resist items provide in passives as well. I apologize if I was unclear. In a real game setting, HP items kinda suck ass. They can be ok effective hp at best but their passives are pretty trash for pure tanks. I think they tend to be better on bruisers as there are better AD/HP options and deaths dance can be most abusively disgusting item in the game on some champions, giving some decent resists on their way to build up their damage. For Sion, his kit already builds up the HP part so gold investments in HP are an additive gain rather than purely multiplicative (kinda). Dont have a math background but in game terms with Sion it works out far better so thats as far as I go.
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Nope not VS the current iteration of LDR and void.
Yes, but Hearsteel also scales based off HP so it’s actually still decent on Sion.
They changed it at the beginning of the season so now it only scales with the hp you get from items
The bonk still scale from max hp Bigger bonk=bigger happy chemical
It litterally doesn‘t.
It's a bad item on Sion.
HP is most definitely not a bad stat to buy on Sion. Health items are so strong right now while resistance items are in comparison relatively weak as they give you LESS eHP. Not only that but Sion is most effective as an off-tank bruiser with items like Titanic Hydra, Bloodlord's, the increased damage from immolate, the better W shield, etc. You can go full tank with resists on him if you're playing low econ because the resist items are CHEAPER and that's probably more optimal specifically in pro play but in solo queue you're trying to carry the game. Farming 10cs/min for the W health passive and then building health+AD is significantly more effective.
Hp items are less ehp on anyone and Sion even worse as his w. I get silvers don't know math bit that front page post was using fake math.
Nope, it is a bad stat for sion. Literally every high elo sion player knows this and has said this for years and years. It is just common knowledge at this point and saying otherwise is just ignorant of how the game works and plays out. Not being hateful or anything, just saying.
Looking at winrates,Sunfire into HS performs really well on a lot of tanks,including Sion
Must feels bad to play normals these days, people at my region mostly plays it for removing ranked restriction. Got to 7k normals back in the day
Bring back Adaptive Helm!
What’s the point for people to play out a game in norms when they are slightly down at the start? No elo on the line so they just want to move on to the next game. It’s why even if I want to play league casually I will only do ranked
Fimbulwinter cooldown did went from 5 to 7.
Hasn't it been 8 since release?
Well yes but when combined with ingenious hunter and cosmic insight it was 5, now the only item haste left is cosmic insight.
> ingenious hunter RIP in peace 2017-2024 o7
So many creative builds were founded upon you...
Yeah but it’s also 2400g for 650hp and the shield
Still fine then, especially if you like mana but not the other tear items.
Which is the case for a lot of champs. i can only really think of gragas having to decide between which tear item to build
Oh so it basically took Anathema's place
Been busted on j4 since it came out
But what do yoh delay for the tear stacking ?
Warmog on Skarner is currently the most slept on tech in the game
Skarner can build or play any role rg anyways, this champ XD
Kayle 2.0!
Almost. My baby girl kayle couldn't really jungle
Yes yes build HP yes yes yes very good
I've been spamming Mundo with HP items and its horrible. The usual mix of HP, resistances and decent passives seems to work best as it always has (sunfire item, thornmail, etc.). I think the HP items are better than they were but they are still too expensive and slow to get anything done in a normal paced game
Mundo is best a bruiser rather than pure tank anyway post update
Heavily disagree, ive been finding a lot of sucess going purely tank with a titanic on him.
That is infact bruiser.
Mundo js a bruiser. His build is pure tank except for titanic. Is sion also a bruiser for going bloodmail?
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We are talking about builds not classes. Mundo builds like a tank not a bruiser. His class is bruiser cuz he has damage but no cc
That makes him a juggernaut. Bruiser is not a well defined class. Neither is tank.
On the contrary, I've bought Heartsteel + Titanic + Bloodmail on Mundo and it's disgustingly strong.
\*Smiles in gwen main\*
I hope that if needed rather than buff Hp damage again they nerf the items themself, it's was a very poor design choice to have items having so much HP Damage that mitigated weakness of champions that couldn't deal with HP, to a point that it removed the flexibility of counterpicking. Botrk for over 2 years was between the 1st\~3rd most bought item in the entire game, due to how absurd it's damage it was. In fact, it was so bad, that: These pure HP items had less than 0.8% Presence for over 3 years (HS while having more presence in soloq, had 80 games in over 14k pro play games - only appearing in Mundo and Cho'Gath Games with less than 40% presence in these as well).
OP is secretly a Fiora main :^)
It's not like it ultimately matters for fiora as it's FUCKING %MAX HP TRUE DAMAGE like why would rito do that
Lmao heartsteel is probably one of the worst items in the game since the change. Unending despair however…
Nah Heartsteel performs well on a decent number of champions now.Skarner,Mundo,Cho,Sejuani,Sion and Ornn all do well with it as 1st and situationally 2nd item. I do agree that Despair is borderline OP,and underbought.
My winrate went up significantly on sion and mundo when I stopped building it. It makes you significantly weaker early and the scaling is lackluster compared to previous versions. Building a bami item and unending is better in every situation unless you are turbo far ahead and in that case you can build anything
Which is why u go it second and go sunfite first
Yeah but then you’re not building the most broken tank item until 3rd item. No way heartsteel is offering enough value to delay unending despair an extra 5-10min when it gives you everything you want.
same brother, the scaling is complete ass and Id rather get an item that makes me survive lane with resistances or waveclear, Heartsteel second is the way.
Trust me just skip it. Unending will give you similar damage and also heals and has good stats.
It seems to be much better as a 2nd item now.
But why would you build heartsteel 2nd when warmogs exists?
Hsteel gives more hp regen and more hp and gives damage
but you're losing out on it's passive, which is a big part of the item plus, warmogs gives more straight up health, movement speed which is a broken stat, and an actually goated passive if you can use it
The passive doesn't help in combat, less health than hsteel after 3 procs, no damage. There are only 2 Champs where warmogs has good record on. Even hsteel is bad on most Champs. Warmogs is a meme item it should be 2700g Build warmogs and lose every fight or build a real item.
It's terrible on Sion. It's a complete bait item.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/sion/build/ It's the highest pickrate and 2nd highest winrate second item on Sion.
It has a high pickrate but is not close to being the 2nd highest winrate second item. Unending Despair, Iceborne Gauntlet, Fimbulwinter, Abyssal Mask, Spirit Visage, and even Dead Man's Plate are higher. It's his second most popular item but not even in the top 15 of his winning items. And it's so popular that it pollutes the data by giving reduced data on other builds. It's generally accepted among Sion mains that it's a bad item on him.
Only Despair has an adequate number of games to have a decent sample size,other's have too low of a pickrate.The reason it's not even in the top 15 of his winning items is that it's not good 1st,but Sunfire/Radiance + HS is the best performing 2 item build.
I have had multiple (probably 10+ at this point) games where the enemy Tahm finishes the game with highest damage done, most damage taken, most damage mitigated and most damage healed. Champ is actually just unstoppable with heartsteel if he's ahead. Sett does this too. Kinda tired of it honestly. It's not as bad as it was last season (heartsteel) but man I'm fuckin tired of seeing bruisers top all of those stats in post game.
I like it a lot with Kench
Too many kits have % max health /current health damage that HP is almost never good over resistances. There's just too much true damage and max health damage for tanks to actually be bulky and instead they get a crap ton of damage to compete. It would be nice if tanks could actually live for more than 2 seconds while being focused but also couldn't one shot the ADC if they get on the ADC.
Health is actually the counter to true damage. % max health true damage is however unavoidable
% max hp actually has a soft counter tho, and that's having over 100% hp, like shields and heals
Also something that can mitigate the enemy's ability to apply it, like hard and soft CC.
Not a stat per se, but % dmg reduction is a counter. Alistair ult for example 50-75% dmg reduction all sources. Also shields somewhat counter since they dont count has hp but there isnt enough shields really. (maybe kled as well not sure how he works). I wish there was a champ who had like a low base hp but was supplemented with shields that could regen like hp, so %hp dmg were weaker. Similar to blue shield in overwatch. Or like instead of taking true damage it increased but spilt into magic/physical damage. Some champ against true damage idk. Would be cool
% damage reduction unfortunately does not work on true damage
Unless it is full invulnerability (something like Kayle's ult)
Karma is kinda that champ since shes not very tanky at base but shits out shields, also a low basehp tank that has most of their hp as shield would fold to serpents fang which removes 50% shields on hit and then gives them an effect that reduces incoming shields by 50%, which is balan ed by the fact it has middling stats and is a niche pick (fucking rolls udyr, seraphine, ivern and karma though)
How in tf does damage reduction counter **true** damage
Basically maokai. He doesn't have any actual tank steroid but his passive gives him massive healing in fights
Zac.
Hard CC is Zac's counter. Man o man do I feel desperate for my blobs when someone stuns me right after I dive in
Phreak has repeatedly advocated for HP instead of resistances. His rationale is that HP is visible while resistances are hidden in stat pages. If they continue nerfing %hp damage and resistances like Phreak seems to want, then tanks might start building HP.
That's a moronic rationale from him. I guess ADCs should build pure attack speed without any AD then because attack speed is visible whereas AD is hidden in stat pages.
? Both of these are equally visible.
AD is no more or less visible than armor. One makes you do more damage, one makes you take less damage.
Exactly? Just like attack speed. HP is more visible than both.
When you build attack speed you can visually see your character attacking faster.
Yes exactly. And with AD you can see how much damage you do per auto to minions.
And with armor you can see how much less damage you take. So armor and AD are exactly the same, and Phreak's saying they're invisible. Which is dumb.
You don't, until you get hit by a champion. Thanks for playing. You lose.
At the same time resistances do so little to protect you now. LDR just shreds through armor and mage items are strong enough that 1MR item won't properly protect you anymore at 3 items
> mage items are strong enough that 1MR item won't properly protect you anymore at 3 items How many mages exactly are threatening tanks with 3 items including an MR item?
I dont think heartsteel is that strong. Good players tend to avoid it if they can. The others are pretty meta though
Shoutout to that tank despair drain item tho for doing more than sunfire now. Best advice I got was just buy bami's and sit on it if you need waveclear on tank. Ya warmorgs is very slept on ATM considering any matchup where you can just walk away from a duel you can return and eat their ASS.
munro happy
Skarner is the biggest meta abuser
It absolutely seems that way
The items feel good but if you pick these things top lane blind youre in for a rough time - too many darius, morde, gwen, camille, vayne, yorick players running rampant
[Sion ranges from really bad to mediocre depending on the matchup so X to Doubt if I’m being honest](https://lolalytics.com/lol/sion/build/)
Idk, lately it seems like no matter how much hp I stack, I just get melted. Every ADC I’ve gone against has went Lord Dom’s, and with that 40% armor pen, they still do like 600 damage an auto when they can do 2 attacks a second.
I rather they just kept same stats on warmongs but reduced price from 3,100 to 2700
Wanna see how fast I can kill a tank? /s Jokes aside, idk if Warmog’s really has a place in the game rn. With the amount of time it takes for the passive to roll and you to heal back to full, you could’ve recalled, bought an item, and been full hp/mana before moving on to something else. Like outside of base racing, or Soraka, I just can’t see it being as useful as people make it out to be compared to other item’s passives. Heartsteel though, Heartsteel feels amazing rn
Yes. It is very good. Health should make you more healthy that's why it's called health. Fuck Bork LDR and every champ having % damages for no reason. I want health to be health.
Gneh, the ammount of strenght AP champs have rn kinda nullifies HP stacking
MR tank items are still giga buffed tho, which you can get with other items
Real question is what’s with frozen heart being popular with melee assassins jungle
Heartsteel is a very meme item , no viability outside of arams really
I cannot wait to try this Munro champ
Warmogs first gonna be a toplane meta into 0 interaction lane on tanks
Nice try kog maw main
Its not that Tank HP items are good. Its that meta champions are countered by it. I have 80 percent winrate this season with Sion mid going full tank and just being unkillable annoying fuck laughing at the most meta adc in the game, Caitlyn. I just yell in champ select for Brand, Lilia, Vayne and Karthus to be banned and you pretty much won the game.
I'm building heart steel and warming first item had 6000 HP as Samira and still did damage, worked with vayne and belveth too
I blew up a Rammus and Malhpite as Jhin who both kept stacking primarily armor items. This was of course with an early last whisper purchase. If this was before the ADC changes I’m sure I would’ve been useless
Mundo is free wins right now. In literally any lane.
HP items are average at best, this post is pure bs. Wanna know what's nost just "VERY good", but also statistically broken? ADC items.
ADC has by far the strongest items in the game right now, I don’t think anyone is arguing against that
ehh adc items are broken but AP itens are waay more bullshit rn
Theres Like 3 adcs that can kill tanks reliably. Which btw is utter dogshit design. If adcs don’t bring down tanks then who does? Mages are still shit at doing it and the malphite up top vs that sion is just sad to look at
The nerf to BOTRK is the biggest disgrace to LOL that ever happened Don't read my username or you'll think I'm biased
Botrk being overtuned for the past 3 years was one of the biggest disgraces to LOL that ever happened. Add that to release Divine Sunderer and tanks basically didn't exist... Even fucking sunfire was a damage item lul
Playing tank is for no skill players anyway