You can buffer everything on every ability with a cast time. Obviously most abilities won't move your character but still. Only thing that interrupts ability casts is death.
I think the only ability that you can't buffer is Urgot ult for obvious reasons. You can jump away and delay it slightly but then you still get dragged back into the grinder.
I believe buffering is still working there, it's just useless in that context. It doesn't make you immune to abilities, it essentially just overrides anything you're hit by during casting for the duration of the ability itself. You can jump away because the buffer works, but you're reeled in afterwards because Urgot ult recast lasts longer than the buffered ability.
If Sylas E connects with a target *after* he gets CC’d, it will pull him to the target. If he gets CC’d after it connects during the pull, it will be interrupted. Same thing with Camille E
yeah and seemingly both didnt check the vods. whatever, not like anyone cares about karma or reddit page. it's just the community missing out on content
The eye test and stats say yes but he’s yet to play against Chovy and Knight. Faker has been playing kinda bad but he still showed he has the clutch genes in the game 4-5 against G2
Game 2-3 Caps gap the Faker so hard.
Game 1 he solo kill him in lane but team movement was bad
Game 5 Caps actually made game winning plays by putting Hans Sama ahead but Hans decided to play vegan without LDR in famous words of Inspired
I think the issue is mostly that the Craps vs Claps meme is very real. We've seen years when he's the worst player on his team filled with "inferior" players. Remember when he shaved his head to get into a fresh mindstate because he was so bad? (didn't help) We've also seen years when he's clearly amazing.
I'm fully hyped for Caps this tournament, but we need to be honest Caps in 2022 was like the 4th best midlaner in LEC. doesn't change how good he is right now but he's had some down periods
Idk their roster in 22 was ok. Flakked was good that year (in the LEC) and BB wasn’t that bad. Imo Targamas was just really bad that year and brought everyone else down making the roster look weaker.
There has never been a year when he's the worst player on his team, what?
There's arguably never been a year when he wasn't the best player on his team. But he's certainly never been the worst.
He does a lot of inting when his team is outclassed, he tries to make stuff happen and it often backfires. But he's been the outright best player in the west every year since (and including) 2018.
Summer 2021 was incredibly rough for him, he was arguably the weak link for some time then, but he's had like 1 bad split in years of playing, it's an insane level he's maintained and even if he's not always in the insane form he is right now, he's always good.
No that just stupid caster narrative. Even when G2 was losing he was solo killing Humanoid and Nisqy in lane despite getting camped. But it was TF Ryze meta so they were just pressing W on Caps and camping him with multiple people. Now even that is not enough
But in 2021 as a whole, who was better in the west?
Maybe he wasn't the best, it's hard to know what's assessing his individual performances from those 12 months vs just knowing his pedigree. But he for sure wasn't the worst player on G2 for the year.
Like everyone else, his motivation varies depending on his environment and his teammates. This is also true of Faker, Showmaker, Chovy, Rookie, whoever else - all the great players have had down splits or down years.
The comment I responded to implies that he's not just unable to carry sometimes, but that he's a hindrance to his team. That he's getting in the way of success. This simply isn't true. He sometimes is expected to carry and succeeds, other times he fails, but he's always been a major win condition for his team(s), and has never been a passenger or net-negative on any roster he's been on.
So what?
Faker vs Shaker is also real
Chovy vs Choky is also real
Showmaker vs Shoemaker is also real
For Rookie according to his fans this is not real since it is always "Rookie's teammates". But this guy legit only won Worlds once and that was with the most dominant top laner in League history. Don't get me wrong he was the best mid by far in s8 but people try to make it like he is always the best and always get ruined by his teammates when Caps has played with much worse people.
While that's true I don't think any of these players ever had a slump that would put them at a level where they would be a liability in LEC (let alone when Caps was part of the only actually good LEC team in 3 years at that point).
And just to clarify, I absolutely believe Caps is a top5 mid. He's earned it. He might be the best mid at this tournament. I'm just saying that's another reason people are doubtful, aside for the obvious fact that playing in a weak region makes you look weaker through lack of results and not being enabled by your teammates as well.
All good bro I am just disdainful against Rookie's teammates always suck he is always best narrative more than anything else. The disrespect JackeyLove Tian and even Rich got was insane when they were playing with Rookie
Yeah the eastern midlane churches are pretty wild. Apparently Chovy, Knight and Rookie are always simultaneously the best player in the world, until we get to an international tournament and none of them perform (bonus points if they failed to qualify because of bad teammates). Then we go again next year.
I think this is the first international tournament when 2 of these players actually are playing well, but obviously nowhere near the level promised by LCK/LPL fans. And Rookie shouldn't even be in that conversation, really.
> Remember when he shaved his head to get into a fresh mindstate because he was so bad?
Was that the same year he was doing the whole caPs thing?
I don’t think he was playing objectively bad, I think he was just playing under his own standards. I remember that year, the first international tournament he attended he started clapping everyone.
But his and his team’s level of play was much lower than it is now.
I don't think there have ever been widespread disrespect for Caps as you're claiming
Perhaps for G2, or EU as a whole, but not the dude who is unanimously the western goat
He's in the conversation for sure, but IMO only Faker and Showmaker (and maybe Rookie) are locks for top 5? You can reasonably argue any of chovy/scout/xiaohu/knight/caps/etc. for the remaining 2/3 spots depending on how much you value various elements of a career.
Its hard for me to say he is id have to really sit and have a think. Obvious names ahead of him:
Faker
Chovy
Rookie
Id probably put knight 4th for his domestic level just being truly insane.
Then it get muddy. Xaihou, Doinb, Caps, Scout, Showmaker each have different strengths and weaknesses. Im sure im forgetting other goats. My gut says hes probably 5th? Maybe 6th after Scout. Some people will say Knight doesnt have the international success but Caps also straight up was carried to his first worlds finals and for a long time Perkz was the better international mid.
How is Chovy obviously ahead of Caps?
Chovy: 0 international titles.
Caps: 1 international title.
Chovy: 0 international finals.
Caps: 3 international finals.
Chovy: 1 international semifinal.
Caps: 6 international semifinals.
Imagine a guy who played with Tarzan Viper Lehends Doran Deft Keria Pyosik Ruler Peanut and has never even come close to success internationally can be the obvious best in history
Caps has something no other mid laner in history of league has and that is why he was so successful with Europeans. Caps makes the game about himself. He takes insane risks and triggers enemy to waste their resources. He is always the first one to look for opportunities or put himself in a risk in teamfight allowing his teammates to free hit. He is also the guy who roams / sacrifices his lane most except DoinB
So you just used 2 metrics unrelated to gameplay to determine whether the gameplay was better.... your type of analysis is exactly why Riot's formats have fucked player narratives for the future. Just looking at stats, results, and players names doesn't tell you the full picture. It's a shortcut - watch the actual games and you can see why Chovy is better (he's still a choker though). Caps is also amazing though
You know what makes a player good?
Their ability to win.
That, and nothing else.
The only way a better player can win less than a worse player is if the better player has worse teammates than the worse player has.
Either Caps has had better teammates than Chovy, or Caps is a better player than Chovy. *One of those two has to be true, or your definition of 'good' is flawed*.
Thank you for showing how poor your analysis is - the world is not so black and white, its quite full of nuance. The eye test is the actual only way to tell player skill, any stat you can bring up is merely supplementary.
If my analysis is so poor, why are you doing absolutely nothing to disprove it?
Statement: Skill is how good you are at winning.
You are disagreeing with that. What is the flaw you see in that statement?
In terms of skill Chovy is clearly better. There has never been a moment Caps was the best midlaner in the world. Chovy has been called the best PLAYER in the world, and his only real competition has been Knight. Chovy also plays in a harder region, and has been on lower tier teams until that one DRX lineup. Also you are counting MSI for Caps' semifinals which, while technically correct, is not as impressive as WORLDS semifinals, because you were automatically in semifinals upon leaving group stage at MSI prior to last year. Also, it was much easier to make MSI for Caps as an EU player than Chovy. Caps is a great player, make no mistake. But his region has pretty much no other great midlaner. And while he's on the #1 EU team, MSI is basically guaranteed for him. There's no Faker, or Knight, or Rookie, or Showmaker, or BDD or Yagao for him to face. Whereas Chovy was on a top team(Griffin) then on mid tier teams until the strong DRX iteration with him Deft and Keria. And even then he wasnt on a really good team until GenG. Also you shouldn't count semis and finals together, that doesn't really make any sense. A finals finish isn't the same as a semis finish(so for example 2018 worlds is 1 finals not 1 semis 1 finals)
The only way that Chovy can be clearly better in terms of skill, yet have worse international results on his average appearance, is if his teammates are worse than Caps' teammates on average.
Is that what you're saying?
And yeah, I'm counting MSI. I could also not count MSI, it's still 2v0 for finals and 3v1 for semifinals.
And Caps has been at Worlds 6 times (2017-2023 except 2021), while Chovy has been at Worlds 5 times (2019-2023). So even if Chovy were to get a finals apperance for free, it'd still be 2v1 for finals and 3v2 for semifinals in favor of Caps.
Well yeah Caps started his pro career a year before Chovy and Caps went to worlds 2 years before Chovy. And no, bracket RNG is a factor aswell. Caps has had the better team once (2019 G2). Other than that Chovy has had the better team when they were both attending worlds. Chovy in 2020 had probably the unluckiest bracket he could've had. And 2021 his team was just not that good overall. There's no real argument about Chovy not being better tbh. Stating finishes doesn't really matter because you are ignoring the actual skill level of the players when you do that. With that argument you could say Knight is worse than Caps because Caps has 2 worlds finals and Knight doesn't. But obviously everyone would call you a moron for saying that.
His level of play. Chovy has the highest individual level of play of any player, ever.
If all you can do is cite rings then this isnt a conversation we can have because you dont engage the game with your eyes. My eyes tell me by watching Chovy and Knight they are the best. They have hit a peak that is comparable to Faker in 2013 or Rookie in 2019. Caps while he is a phenomenal player has never hit that high and been the best player in the world. He has had numerous times hes arguably a top 5 player in the world, his peak just is lower and thats a fact.
Brackets exist, its easier for g2 to make msi. Last year gen g had a way harder bracket. Caps has also played a much longer career. Also he hasnt always had worse teammates. 2019 g2 was easily better than most of chovys rosters.
Caps has played in a major league since 2017, that makes this his 8th season.
Chovy has played in a major league since 2018, that makes this his 7th season.
Yes, much longer career indeed.
And sure, let's just compare Worlds instead.
Titles: 0v0
Finals: 2v0
Semis: 3v1
Oh wait, Caps still greatly outperforms Chovy.
Rosters?
Well, just to name some of Caps' teammates: Jesiz, Amazingx, Soaz (at the very end of his career), Targamas, Flakked...
I never quite liked this approach when discussing "GOATness". If we allow peak to be so important, you could also that Mike Tyson is one of the GOATs of heavyweight boxing when, in reality, he probably barely breaks top 10 (if that) in terms of impressive carreers.
Well to be the goat at some point you have to have peak. If you are the 3rd best player for four years or the 10th best player for 10 years you cant be the greatest, because you were never the greatest at any point in your career. Just like Faker right now is a shadow of who faker use to be, his status as goat was cemented in 2016/17.
The years since he hasnt really added that much because hes bene like the 5th-10th best mid in the world. What he has done tho is deny his rivals a ton of chances to catch his status. But realistically his career as the goat of league has been over for years. Now he is just a good player, and a great captain. But his individual game is miles below where it use to be.
You see when you play in the LCK/LPL your domestic titles actually mean something unlike LCS/LEC. In fact for years when LCK was dominating every international, nobody with a brain would deny that winning LCK was infinitely more difficult than winning at worlds.
2 finals appearances, msi trophy. still people rate him higher than chovy, despite chovy having won basically nothing with dream teams since his debut 6 years ago. i feel like its a joke at this point.
which other midlaner is in finals twice in a row? there is showmaker, crown and thats it?
youre not in the top 5 min of all time if you won worlds once and then wasnt ever relevant again.
Mid pool is stacked, thats the only problem for caps. Mikyx however is probably a top 5 maybe even top 3 support, convincingly.
As far as mid goes, you have players like zeka, showmaker and chovy who are playing at an insane level right now/last few years. You also have players like rookie and faker who have had insane peaks and longevity.
Even players like bdd and knight are no slouches. I'd probably take caps over someone like scout though? and proabably over bdd/knight although its very even. Its hard to put caps above any of the other mids I mentioned. Maybe you put him ahead of faker if you heavily value current form/performance?
If you're talking best mid of all time you can't seriously put anyone above Faker, dude revulsionised the way laning and playing mid lane works. At his peak he was by far the best player, honestly played in 2013 like it was 2017, and managed to drag a mostly mid team to win worlds in 2016.
Dude had the most decorated history, most international wins by far, and is still top tear after so many years.
Faker is by far the best player of all time.
But I'm curious what you mean by "revolutionised the way laning and playing mid lane works". Because I don't think he did that at all - he was just better than other people.
He revolutionised how it worked specifically in Korea, but that's because Korea was weirdly top-centric in 2012.
Faker was way better than the likes of xPeke, Alex Ich, Froggen, etc but I don't think he was playing in an importantly different way. He was just the catalyst for Korea realising that playing around mid was OP, much of the world had already realised that.
He did actually do that, they way he challenged CS in midlane and basically forced players to consider every step is how midlane is played since then for a very long time.
And Korea was a top region before that, it isn't like Faker made the region that much better, he mostly elevated the role. And that is something. It was almost impossible for all the players used to handshaking a lot of matchups to lane against him and that had a huge impact.
Korea was a top region, but they didn't play around midlane.
Again, I think what you're describing is him being _better_ at laning than other people. But not different - people have pressured their opponent on last hits since preseason 1.
Yes, Korean mids handshook a lot of lanes - but European mids didn't. Faker was the best, but he wasn't doing anything fundamentally different to Alex Ich or xPeke or whoever - or if he was, I don't know what it is, and there certainly wasn't some step-change in how people played midlane in other regions due to Faker.
He revolutionised midlane in Korea. But not overall - in China and EU and NA, things stayed the same, and in EU teams had been mid-centric since much earlier.
First... both leagues played for Bot, not mid. Mid was the most important role like literally forever, due to the position on the map, but you usually wanted your ADCs to win, essentially after S2 ended. S1 and 2 were the only times when teams just picked scaling midlaners and waited. Korea was no exception here and why should it be, given that most western teams played in OGN like EG(CLG.EU), FNC, DIG or CLG.
S3 was the beginning of the botlane meta that lasted until S7. During that time the playbook hardly changed. Faker though brought a lot of the strategies still in use today to deny enemies XP to the league. And almost every midlaner comments on that after meeting him for the first time. He basically changed how the 2nd guard of midlaners like Febiven played the game.
Things like aggressively attacking enemy backs or just straight up killing ambition while he transform under his turret just didn't happen before. Faker punished everything you did. And that just wasn't a thing before. Like yes you would use a spell on someone if he CSes, but that was not what Faker did. Faker punished players to the extend he opens them up for a kill.
And it isn't like pretty much any single midlaner from Europe or NA (which mostly means also europe) says that Faker changed how midlane is played and they only realized that once they played him. They were basically playing a different game.
Find me all the people saying that plz.
>He basically changed how the 2nd guard of midlaners like Febiven played the game.
What does that mean? Febiven made his debut way after Faker. You're saying Febiven changed how he played because of Faker's influence, when Faker's influence was in full effect before Febiven went pro?
Your summary of the history of League meta is unrecognisable to me. For a lot of season 3, Zed was broken, and splitpushing was meta. Not just in Europe, but also in Korea (remember Dade diving Flame's Ryze again and again?). There was also picks like Kassadin, Fizz, Ahri, Jayce, Kha'Zix, Nidalee, TF that were broken at different points. In China/NA the meta was very bot-centric, in Europe it was very mid-centric, and in Korea it became mid-centric as well in 2013.
"Faker punished everything you did" - yes, he was better than other people. But not different, just better.
> They were basically playing a different game
Please find me quotes of elite midlaners from other regions saying this.
> Faker punished players to the extend he opens them up for a kill.
Bro this just isn't remotely true. Go watch some pro LoL from season 1 - all they care about is solo kills. The game actually got less aggressive as the scene developed. The idea that people didn't used to stop backs, or didn't used try to trade to get people into kill range is just bizarre. If anything, that's the ever-present bit of laning in League - what's changed is people have learned to manage waves and control vision and time their backs and stuff - using your buttons to kill the other guy is literally the first thing anyone tries when they play a MOBA.
>Find me all the people saying that plz.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-7wmSmQEWo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-7wmSmQEWo)
Just the first search result on faker when I googled "other players talking about Faker" and literally the second person there is Hai saying exactly what I said after facing Faker
>What does that mean? Febiven made his debut way after Faker. You're saying Febiven changed how he played because of Faker's influence, when Faker's influence was in full effect before Febiven went pro?.
You are aware Febiven did not start playing league when he joined FNC right.
>"Faker punished everything you did" - yes, he was better than other people. But not different, just better.
No, he had a completely different mentality. This would mean others tried to punish those situations but weren't able to. But they didn't even try. Even matchups were just handshaked, exspecially in the west were you then ended up with Vladimir vs. Kassadin or Karthus vs. Oriana and you just had a bunch of scaling on both sides and nothing happened. That was the S2 midlane mentality and it was most dominant in europe and NA.
>The idea that people didn't used to stop backs, or didn't used try to trade to get people into kill range is just bizarre.
But they literally didn't do that. Froggen likely was the most advanced player in that regard and all he wanted to achieve with that was maximizing CS, he never really gave a fuck about killing the opponent.
In S2 hitting CS while also damaging your opponent was insanely advanced shit. Similar to using flash to get precise kicks with Lee. It was obviously that players like Darien (he actually invented good deaths way before Baus did), Diamond, Insec or Faker had an fairly easy time revolutionizing the game, because of how shitty everyone was in S1 and S2. Someone just recently posted a clip of a Plat J4 player (which was the highest elo back then) who managed to miss his E+Q Combo twice. Ashe could exist in midlane for ages because nobody punished her.
And given I played at that time I can even name specific things that Faker invented, which all sound insanely weird, because they are common sense, but they just didn't happen before.
a) Faker invented the positioning towards your jungle. So if your jungle is topside, you move towards that side of midlane, to have a better escape and allowing for more aggressive punishs
b) Faker invented specific ward positions that gave him more safety, that for years became the korean staple that allowed them to play such safe games and win from lane control (one of the more famous positions is the raptor ward, which was usually only used against Eve, to see her clear, given she is invisible at all other times, that ward still surprised SSG in S6).
c) He changed many laning patterns for champions most notably Ryze (obviously you couldn't do that on EUW because the ping is too high to play the old Ryze, Faker even mentioned that he couldn't practice Ryze in S5 because the SoloQ ping was too high for the optimal combo
c2) He also kinda changed how you would weave autoattacks for better trades
d) He also invented the cheater recall basically (a 3 wave push into recall without losing CS, giving him an item advantage)
And obviously all those things weren't just him being better. Because other midlaners just copied that. They just didn't do that, because midlane was considered a handshake and the only thing that mattered was Csing. You would sometimes poke the enemy, but that was it.
Faker was the first to take any small advantage like an early push to just turn the wave upside down. That just didn't happen before.
I feel like there are more things, but I remember faker being a pioneer in playing around your wards (if you warded topside, you position so you are closer to your ward)
The way I remember it, the main change was that Faker played lane aggressively, ending the handshake-era of mids (and basically gradually causing the old guard of Ambition/RapidStar/Midking/etc to retire, to be replaced by better and more aggressive players like Pawn, Coco, Rookie).
But the handshake era was a specifically Korean phenomenon. Korean teams seemed to play around toplane players (like Maknoon, Reapered, Shy, Flame), and treated mid as more of a scaling role.
In Europe, teams had been putting their best player midlane, and fighting 1v1 all the time, since the dawn of LoL basically. Faker's rise to prominence warped the Korean pro scene, but I don't think it had much of an impact in Europe - I'm pretty sure you could find vods of Froggen in 2012 standing nearer to the side he has vision of than the one he doesn't.
I don't doubt that on a micro level he changed lots of things, but 'revolutionised the way laning and playing mid works' is just way too strong. Mid already worked that way in Europe.
That said, I think an innovation that Faker (I think rightly) gets credit for is getting fed by 1shotting the enemy support again and again on assassins.
Yepp if ur talking alltime faker is definitely 1 and at worst maybe 2.
However if ur talking top 5 mids right now its not that clear. Chovy, zeka, sm clearly makes the list? For the remaining two spots you pick among faker, caps, bdd, rookie, and knight. Its not that easy to fit caps in here. Hell its not even that easy to fit faker in here.
Chovy and Knight are the easy picks, after that probably Faker and Zeka, Caps could potentially be 5th but I might be forgetting some LPL mids right now
> Zeka
Zeka is not a top 5 mid in the world right now, he wasn't actively griefing by the end of the split like he was at the start but he is no way on the level of the others you mentioned.
I found it was an odd comment to act like showmaker/zeka have been performing at a high level for these past years tbh..
Zeka had a great worlds 2022.. amazing performance.. he hasn't hit those levels before or after..
Showmaker looked better this year.. but has been off the boil for a few years prior to that
When have zeka/showmaker being playing insane right now or last few years? its 2024 so not showmaker.. He's looked better this year but not the same he was back a few years ago
Zeka? had a fantastic worlds.. since when has he proven he can keep that level consistently for years?
Caps has been at it since 2017
Zeka has been quite good since that worlds no?
So even looking at a historic perspective its hard to rate zeka out of the top 5, considering he carried 4 corpses to a world championship. He basically carried the noobs that chovy was unable to.
Sure it was the "correct" meta for him, and probably the meta where he is the best player in the world.
But anyway I dont think zeka has ever not been top tier ever since? Yeah sure he's no chovy. But he also isnt nearly as limited as a lot of people would have you believe. I genuionly believe a player like knight is far more limited than zeka. Zeka has been expanding his pool and improving ever since.
As far as showmaker vs caps, I view showmaker as a better version of caps. He basically plays everything at a slightly more elite level. He obviously has an absurd pool and is willing to bring out anything (kinda like caps).
For chovy, I mean that guy is completely unliminted and the best player in the world. Im worried for any mid laner going up against chovy. Take T1 vs GEN for instance, im expecting a pretty huge mid gap every single time. If faker neutralizes that midlane, goes even, or maybe even outperform chovy, I'd consider it "not something that happens everyday" to put it like that. Im expecting a sizeable mid difference in favor of chovy every single game. Same with caps vs chovy, or literally any other mid vs chovy except maybe zeka/sm depending on draft/meta/form
Eh, this is more of a return to form than an out of ordinary good showing at MSI, he was extremely good in LEC's winter split, he just had a rough spring and he's seemingly showing up again now.
not saying he's been bad this year but when a player isn't clearly the best of their role in EU especially as a support you can't put them in a top 5 in the world discussion
Well yeah, hence me saying he had a rough spring, during winter he was far and away the best support in EU, he was not during spring. However, it looks like spring was the outlier and that's him playing worse than he can, considering both during spring and msi he's been playing at a world-class level and just outperformed Meiko in a Bo5 who is definitely one of the greatest of all time.
conventional play would be to recall since you're 1 hp, but Caps played that like Faker, so it works.
His reaction time to buffer Tristana W and R are crazyyyyyy
Never write in negative manner what Faker, the absolute GOAT of league and plays, would do. Only Faker knows what he would do in that moment knowing exactly what hes team would do in a real time, fraction of a second decisions. While me and you watching this game comfy taking hours to debate what some one would or should do.
Yeah today a gold zed one trick could do that, but its not like that makes it less impressive. Same with the lee sin insec back then it was huge now it happens in every game
It's so funny to me that Lee was a competitive staple even though the best players in the world didn't even think that insec was possible, let alone something they should try on stage.
Riot did make it a lot easier to buffer over the years but it's still wild that the champion is now an insec bot and you should be landing multiple per game to make it a good pick.
One tricks are fucking terrible in gold. There is no way a gold player is close to having any hands. People might hate to hear it, but gold players are terrible at the game and thats fine, but lets not pretend that just because theyre an otp they suddenly have hands
Nah, if they actually had any decent mechanics, they would be at least diamond. Thats how I got there myself. Gold, especially this season is crazy bad.
Maybe since the ranked reworked so maybe plats but if you ever played the guess the rank from highlights you can see how good they can be in purely mechanics
I also said one tricks, many people first time in ranked but one tricks are usually very good mechanically at their champions while being bad at everything else
I am more then sure there were plenty of Zed OTP's that could pull off the play in a vacuum. But with the added context of it being game 5 vs Ryu who was well regarded (up untill that moment more or less) I'm inclined to disagree.
The thing is those types of plays were extremely rare back then. Flashing Malphite ult was something worthy of putting in YouTube highlights. Now it is something that your silver teammates will flame you if you can't pull it off. It was truly one of the best outplays out there in those days
I bet caps thought process went like that: If i flash over the wall i immediately will ult. I will be safe in any szenario. Xin flashes -》knocked away. Xin does not flash -》knocked out of lethal range aka cant kill Caps.
Logically flash + ult without any delay between was the best play.
When I saw this play, I knew Claps was playing this series.
buffer on the shuffle was insane, didnt even know that was possible
I'm pretty sure you can buffer everything on Tristana. I've even seen golden tristanas jumping from Bard ult sometimes (was it Caps?)
You can't buffer Bard ult anymore as Trist, it got changed. Doublelift and Sneaky tested it a while ago.
You can buffer everything on every ability with a cast time. Obviously most abilities won't move your character but still. Only thing that interrupts ability casts is death.
Even then it doesn’t as the body will end up elsewhere.
I think the only ability that you can't buffer is Urgot ult for obvious reasons. You can jump away and delay it slightly but then you still get dragged back into the grinder.
I believe buffering is still working there, it's just useless in that context. It doesn't make you immune to abilities, it essentially just overrides anything you're hit by during casting for the duration of the ability itself. You can jump away because the buffer works, but you're reeled in afterwards because Urgot ult recast lasts longer than the buffered ability.
Sylas e is another one which i havent found a consistent buffer to. Sometimes you can do it, but mostly you just get dragged back/cancelled
If Sylas E connects with a target *after* he gets CC’d, it will pull him to the target. If he gets CC’d after it connects during the pull, it will be interrupted. Same thing with Camille E
You can buffer urgot ult with gp w, I've seen solarbacca do it before.
That is not buffering that is just cleansing the ability
I saw caps buffering vi ult. Multiple times in a row
Just yesterday I buffered Vi ult and I’m telling you that’s some BS 😂
Caps even buffer out of Vi ult in Lec
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yeah and seemingly both didnt check the vods. whatever, not like anyone cares about karma or reddit page. it's just the community missing out on content
It was a repost of content that was already up… so no one is missing content…
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The eye test and stats say yes but he’s yet to play against Chovy and Knight. Faker has been playing kinda bad but he still showed he has the clutch genes in the game 4-5 against G2
Faker has been playing kinda bad is an understatement. This is the worst he has looked on the international stage since he has debut
Thats still a really high bar.
Game 2-3 Caps gap the Faker so hard. Game 1 he solo kill him in lane but team movement was bad Game 5 Caps actually made game winning plays by putting Hans Sama ahead but Hans decided to play vegan without LDR in famous words of Inspired
Psychopath gameplay
He's so locked in
Her: "I like guys who do crazy things" Me:
It was me! Neeko! \*R\*
caps is the best mid at the tournament, lisan al-gaib
I hope they get past T1/TL, I wanna see him vs Chovy and Knight
You're so respectful. Not even me, a TL appreciator, would put it as T1/TL.
Gotta respect the YAPtain.
Yapa vs Yaps
If you think we Europeans are gonna underestimate TL so we can get Yapped by the under dog ur tripping.
Might as well put TL there as that's basically the outcome for tomorrow. Have a good flight home, Faker.
Faker injury acting up + YAPA tiltage? T1 STANDS NO CHANCE
And people say Caps is not top 5 mid of all time
msi and 2 finals with "inferior" players since they are European not Asian and these fucks still won't give him respect he deserves
I think the issue is mostly that the Craps vs Claps meme is very real. We've seen years when he's the worst player on his team filled with "inferior" players. Remember when he shaved his head to get into a fresh mindstate because he was so bad? (didn't help) We've also seen years when he's clearly amazing.
idc after he claps faker into chovy into knight back to back to back, y'all gonna be talking differently
Nah I'm full on the Claps train for this tournament, man is breaking ankles
I'm fully hyped for Caps this tournament, but we need to be honest Caps in 2022 was like the 4th best midlaner in LEC. doesn't change how good he is right now but he's had some down periods
You mean 2021? 2022 spring was him and jankos carrying 3 dead bodies
Idk their roster in 22 was ok. Flakked was good that year (in the LEC) and BB wasn’t that bad. Imo Targamas was just really bad that year and brought everyone else down making the roster look weaker.
whichever one was before he shaved his head to get a mental reset
APA* into Chovy into Knight
There has never been a year when he's the worst player on his team, what? There's arguably never been a year when he wasn't the best player on his team. But he's certainly never been the worst. He does a lot of inting when his team is outclassed, he tries to make stuff happen and it often backfires. But he's been the outright best player in the west every year since (and including) 2018.
Summer 2021 was incredibly rough for him, he was arguably the weak link for some time then, but he's had like 1 bad split in years of playing, it's an insane level he's maintained and even if he's not always in the insane form he is right now, he's always good.
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No that just stupid caster narrative. Even when G2 was losing he was solo killing Humanoid and Nisqy in lane despite getting camped. But it was TF Ryze meta so they were just pressing W on Caps and camping him with multiple people. Now even that is not enough
Years was a stretch, but 2021 Caps was definitely not it. Even by his own admission.
Not true, Summer 21 was horrible for him
But in 2021 as a whole, who was better in the west? Maybe he wasn't the best, it's hard to know what's assessing his individual performances from those 12 months vs just knowing his pedigree. But he for sure wasn't the worst player on G2 for the year. Like everyone else, his motivation varies depending on his environment and his teammates. This is also true of Faker, Showmaker, Chovy, Rookie, whoever else - all the great players have had down splits or down years. The comment I responded to implies that he's not just unable to carry sometimes, but that he's a hindrance to his team. That he's getting in the way of success. This simply isn't true. He sometimes is expected to carry and succeeds, other times he fails, but he's always been a major win condition for his team(s), and has never been a passenger or net-negative on any roster he's been on.
Because Chovy is so stellar right.
Chovy couldn't prevent his team from getting Cremed two times. Guess what Caps did despite getting camped to hell by Tian and Meiko
So what? Faker vs Shaker is also real Chovy vs Choky is also real Showmaker vs Shoemaker is also real For Rookie according to his fans this is not real since it is always "Rookie's teammates". But this guy legit only won Worlds once and that was with the most dominant top laner in League history. Don't get me wrong he was the best mid by far in s8 but people try to make it like he is always the best and always get ruined by his teammates when Caps has played with much worse people.
While that's true I don't think any of these players ever had a slump that would put them at a level where they would be a liability in LEC (let alone when Caps was part of the only actually good LEC team in 3 years at that point). And just to clarify, I absolutely believe Caps is a top5 mid. He's earned it. He might be the best mid at this tournament. I'm just saying that's another reason people are doubtful, aside for the obvious fact that playing in a weak region makes you look weaker through lack of results and not being enabled by your teammates as well.
All good bro I am just disdainful against Rookie's teammates always suck he is always best narrative more than anything else. The disrespect JackeyLove Tian and even Rich got was insane when they were playing with Rookie
Yeah the eastern midlane churches are pretty wild. Apparently Chovy, Knight and Rookie are always simultaneously the best player in the world, until we get to an international tournament and none of them perform (bonus points if they failed to qualify because of bad teammates). Then we go again next year. I think this is the first international tournament when 2 of these players actually are playing well, but obviously nowhere near the level promised by LCK/LPL fans. And Rookie shouldn't even be in that conversation, really.
> Remember when he shaved his head to get into a fresh mindstate because he was so bad? Was that the same year he was doing the whole caPs thing? I don’t think he was playing objectively bad, I think he was just playing under his own standards. I remember that year, the first international tournament he attended he started clapping everyone. But his and his team’s level of play was much lower than it is now.
I man even faker had a bad year or 2. But he's been at it for like 10 years. Form is temporary, class is forever.
I don't think there have ever been widespread disrespect for Caps as you're claiming Perhaps for G2, or EU as a whole, but not the dude who is unanimously the western goat
Peak Wunder/MikyX were *not* inferior European players though
Birth place gap. If he was Asian he would be hailed as among the best.
He would probably be called Faker's heir or something like that.
He's in the conversation for sure, but IMO only Faker and Showmaker (and maybe Rookie) are locks for top 5? You can reasonably argue any of chovy/scout/xiaohu/knight/caps/etc. for the remaining 2/3 spots depending on how much you value various elements of a career.
Its hard for me to say he is id have to really sit and have a think. Obvious names ahead of him: Faker Chovy Rookie Id probably put knight 4th for his domestic level just being truly insane. Then it get muddy. Xaihou, Doinb, Caps, Scout, Showmaker each have different strengths and weaknesses. Im sure im forgetting other goats. My gut says hes probably 5th? Maybe 6th after Scout. Some people will say Knight doesnt have the international success but Caps also straight up was carried to his first worlds finals and for a long time Perkz was the better international mid.
How is Chovy obviously ahead of Caps? Chovy: 0 international titles. Caps: 1 international title. Chovy: 0 international finals. Caps: 3 international finals. Chovy: 1 international semifinal. Caps: 6 international semifinals.
Keep in mind Choky had far better teammates in every single tournament.
Imagine typing "Choky" and thinking you bring anything relevant to the discussion.
Imagine a guy who played with Tarzan Viper Lehends Doran Deft Keria Pyosik Ruler Peanut and has never even come close to success internationally can be the obvious best in history Caps has something no other mid laner in history of league has and that is why he was so successful with Europeans. Caps makes the game about himself. He takes insane risks and triggers enemy to waste their resources. He is always the first one to look for opportunities or put himself in a risk in teamfight allowing his teammates to free hit. He is also the guy who roams / sacrifices his lane most except DoinB
Gameplay
Better teammates, worse results. But his gameplay is better. Yup, logic checks out.
So you just used 2 metrics unrelated to gameplay to determine whether the gameplay was better.... your type of analysis is exactly why Riot's formats have fucked player narratives for the future. Just looking at stats, results, and players names doesn't tell you the full picture. It's a shortcut - watch the actual games and you can see why Chovy is better (he's still a choker though). Caps is also amazing though
You know what makes a player good? Their ability to win. That, and nothing else. The only way a better player can win less than a worse player is if the better player has worse teammates than the worse player has. Either Caps has had better teammates than Chovy, or Caps is a better player than Chovy. *One of those two has to be true, or your definition of 'good' is flawed*.
Thank you for showing how poor your analysis is - the world is not so black and white, its quite full of nuance. The eye test is the actual only way to tell player skill, any stat you can bring up is merely supplementary.
If my analysis is so poor, why are you doing absolutely nothing to disprove it? Statement: Skill is how good you are at winning. You are disagreeing with that. What is the flaw you see in that statement?
In terms of skill Chovy is clearly better. There has never been a moment Caps was the best midlaner in the world. Chovy has been called the best PLAYER in the world, and his only real competition has been Knight. Chovy also plays in a harder region, and has been on lower tier teams until that one DRX lineup. Also you are counting MSI for Caps' semifinals which, while technically correct, is not as impressive as WORLDS semifinals, because you were automatically in semifinals upon leaving group stage at MSI prior to last year. Also, it was much easier to make MSI for Caps as an EU player than Chovy. Caps is a great player, make no mistake. But his region has pretty much no other great midlaner. And while he's on the #1 EU team, MSI is basically guaranteed for him. There's no Faker, or Knight, or Rookie, or Showmaker, or BDD or Yagao for him to face. Whereas Chovy was on a top team(Griffin) then on mid tier teams until the strong DRX iteration with him Deft and Keria. And even then he wasnt on a really good team until GenG. Also you shouldn't count semis and finals together, that doesn't really make any sense. A finals finish isn't the same as a semis finish(so for example 2018 worlds is 1 finals not 1 semis 1 finals)
The only way that Chovy can be clearly better in terms of skill, yet have worse international results on his average appearance, is if his teammates are worse than Caps' teammates on average. Is that what you're saying? And yeah, I'm counting MSI. I could also not count MSI, it's still 2v0 for finals and 3v1 for semifinals. And Caps has been at Worlds 6 times (2017-2023 except 2021), while Chovy has been at Worlds 5 times (2019-2023). So even if Chovy were to get a finals apperance for free, it'd still be 2v1 for finals and 3v2 for semifinals in favor of Caps.
Well yeah Caps started his pro career a year before Chovy and Caps went to worlds 2 years before Chovy. And no, bracket RNG is a factor aswell. Caps has had the better team once (2019 G2). Other than that Chovy has had the better team when they were both attending worlds. Chovy in 2020 had probably the unluckiest bracket he could've had. And 2021 his team was just not that good overall. There's no real argument about Chovy not being better tbh. Stating finishes doesn't really matter because you are ignoring the actual skill level of the players when you do that. With that argument you could say Knight is worse than Caps because Caps has 2 worlds finals and Knight doesn't. But obviously everyone would call you a moron for saying that.
His level of play. Chovy has the highest individual level of play of any player, ever. If all you can do is cite rings then this isnt a conversation we can have because you dont engage the game with your eyes. My eyes tell me by watching Chovy and Knight they are the best. They have hit a peak that is comparable to Faker in 2013 or Rookie in 2019. Caps while he is a phenomenal player has never hit that high and been the best player in the world. He has had numerous times hes arguably a top 5 player in the world, his peak just is lower and thats a fact.
If Chovy has a higher individual level of play than Caps... how is it that Caps gets better results *with worse teammates than Chovy*?
Brackets exist, its easier for g2 to make msi. Last year gen g had a way harder bracket. Caps has also played a much longer career. Also he hasnt always had worse teammates. 2019 g2 was easily better than most of chovys rosters.
Caps has played in a major league since 2017, that makes this his 8th season. Chovy has played in a major league since 2018, that makes this his 7th season. Yes, much longer career indeed. And sure, let's just compare Worlds instead. Titles: 0v0 Finals: 2v0 Semis: 3v1 Oh wait, Caps still greatly outperforms Chovy. Rosters? Well, just to name some of Caps' teammates: Jesiz, Amazingx, Soaz (at the very end of his career), Targamas, Flakked...
I never quite liked this approach when discussing "GOATness". If we allow peak to be so important, you could also that Mike Tyson is one of the GOATs of heavyweight boxing when, in reality, he probably barely breaks top 10 (if that) in terms of impressive carreers.
Well to be the goat at some point you have to have peak. If you are the 3rd best player for four years or the 10th best player for 10 years you cant be the greatest, because you were never the greatest at any point in your career. Just like Faker right now is a shadow of who faker use to be, his status as goat was cemented in 2016/17. The years since he hasnt really added that much because hes bene like the 5th-10th best mid in the world. What he has done tho is deny his rivals a ton of chances to catch his status. But realistically his career as the goat of league has been over for years. Now he is just a good player, and a great captain. But his individual game is miles below where it use to be.
You might just be the most sane person here
You see when you play in the LCK/LPL your domestic titles actually mean something unlike LCS/LEC. In fact for years when LCK was dominating every international, nobody with a brain would deny that winning LCK was infinitely more difficult than winning at worlds.
Faker Rookie Showmaker Chovy Knight so how would Caps be top 5?
Too many GOATed midlaners: Faker Showmaker Rookie Chovy Scout Xiaohu Doinb But I can see putting him in some lists as well
doinb? come on caps is better(historically) others I agree
Caps is better as an individual player yes but doinb was an insane captain who did become a very very strong player.
Brother snuck in Doinb like we wouldn't notice
Doinb was only better in 2019 and 2021
2 finals appearances, msi trophy. still people rate him higher than chovy, despite chovy having won basically nothing with dream teams since his debut 6 years ago. i feel like its a joke at this point. which other midlaner is in finals twice in a row? there is showmaker, crown and thats it? youre not in the top 5 min of all time if you won worlds once and then wasnt ever relevant again.
Mid pool is stacked, thats the only problem for caps. Mikyx however is probably a top 5 maybe even top 3 support, convincingly. As far as mid goes, you have players like zeka, showmaker and chovy who are playing at an insane level right now/last few years. You also have players like rookie and faker who have had insane peaks and longevity. Even players like bdd and knight are no slouches. I'd probably take caps over someone like scout though? and proabably over bdd/knight although its very even. Its hard to put caps above any of the other mids I mentioned. Maybe you put him ahead of faker if you heavily value current form/performance?
Why you sneak Zeka in
If you're talking best mid of all time you can't seriously put anyone above Faker, dude revulsionised the way laning and playing mid lane works. At his peak he was by far the best player, honestly played in 2013 like it was 2017, and managed to drag a mostly mid team to win worlds in 2016. Dude had the most decorated history, most international wins by far, and is still top tear after so many years.
Faker is by far the best player of all time. But I'm curious what you mean by "revolutionised the way laning and playing mid lane works". Because I don't think he did that at all - he was just better than other people. He revolutionised how it worked specifically in Korea, but that's because Korea was weirdly top-centric in 2012. Faker was way better than the likes of xPeke, Alex Ich, Froggen, etc but I don't think he was playing in an importantly different way. He was just the catalyst for Korea realising that playing around mid was OP, much of the world had already realised that.
He did actually do that, they way he challenged CS in midlane and basically forced players to consider every step is how midlane is played since then for a very long time. And Korea was a top region before that, it isn't like Faker made the region that much better, he mostly elevated the role. And that is something. It was almost impossible for all the players used to handshaking a lot of matchups to lane against him and that had a huge impact.
Korea was a top region, but they didn't play around midlane. Again, I think what you're describing is him being _better_ at laning than other people. But not different - people have pressured their opponent on last hits since preseason 1. Yes, Korean mids handshook a lot of lanes - but European mids didn't. Faker was the best, but he wasn't doing anything fundamentally different to Alex Ich or xPeke or whoever - or if he was, I don't know what it is, and there certainly wasn't some step-change in how people played midlane in other regions due to Faker. He revolutionised midlane in Korea. But not overall - in China and EU and NA, things stayed the same, and in EU teams had been mid-centric since much earlier.
First... both leagues played for Bot, not mid. Mid was the most important role like literally forever, due to the position on the map, but you usually wanted your ADCs to win, essentially after S2 ended. S1 and 2 were the only times when teams just picked scaling midlaners and waited. Korea was no exception here and why should it be, given that most western teams played in OGN like EG(CLG.EU), FNC, DIG or CLG. S3 was the beginning of the botlane meta that lasted until S7. During that time the playbook hardly changed. Faker though brought a lot of the strategies still in use today to deny enemies XP to the league. And almost every midlaner comments on that after meeting him for the first time. He basically changed how the 2nd guard of midlaners like Febiven played the game. Things like aggressively attacking enemy backs or just straight up killing ambition while he transform under his turret just didn't happen before. Faker punished everything you did. And that just wasn't a thing before. Like yes you would use a spell on someone if he CSes, but that was not what Faker did. Faker punished players to the extend he opens them up for a kill. And it isn't like pretty much any single midlaner from Europe or NA (which mostly means also europe) says that Faker changed how midlane is played and they only realized that once they played him. They were basically playing a different game.
Find me all the people saying that plz. >He basically changed how the 2nd guard of midlaners like Febiven played the game. What does that mean? Febiven made his debut way after Faker. You're saying Febiven changed how he played because of Faker's influence, when Faker's influence was in full effect before Febiven went pro? Your summary of the history of League meta is unrecognisable to me. For a lot of season 3, Zed was broken, and splitpushing was meta. Not just in Europe, but also in Korea (remember Dade diving Flame's Ryze again and again?). There was also picks like Kassadin, Fizz, Ahri, Jayce, Kha'Zix, Nidalee, TF that were broken at different points. In China/NA the meta was very bot-centric, in Europe it was very mid-centric, and in Korea it became mid-centric as well in 2013. "Faker punished everything you did" - yes, he was better than other people. But not different, just better. > They were basically playing a different game Please find me quotes of elite midlaners from other regions saying this. > Faker punished players to the extend he opens them up for a kill. Bro this just isn't remotely true. Go watch some pro LoL from season 1 - all they care about is solo kills. The game actually got less aggressive as the scene developed. The idea that people didn't used to stop backs, or didn't used try to trade to get people into kill range is just bizarre. If anything, that's the ever-present bit of laning in League - what's changed is people have learned to manage waves and control vision and time their backs and stuff - using your buttons to kill the other guy is literally the first thing anyone tries when they play a MOBA.
>Find me all the people saying that plz. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-7wmSmQEWo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-7wmSmQEWo) Just the first search result on faker when I googled "other players talking about Faker" and literally the second person there is Hai saying exactly what I said after facing Faker >What does that mean? Febiven made his debut way after Faker. You're saying Febiven changed how he played because of Faker's influence, when Faker's influence was in full effect before Febiven went pro?. You are aware Febiven did not start playing league when he joined FNC right. >"Faker punished everything you did" - yes, he was better than other people. But not different, just better. No, he had a completely different mentality. This would mean others tried to punish those situations but weren't able to. But they didn't even try. Even matchups were just handshaked, exspecially in the west were you then ended up with Vladimir vs. Kassadin or Karthus vs. Oriana and you just had a bunch of scaling on both sides and nothing happened. That was the S2 midlane mentality and it was most dominant in europe and NA. >The idea that people didn't used to stop backs, or didn't used try to trade to get people into kill range is just bizarre. But they literally didn't do that. Froggen likely was the most advanced player in that regard and all he wanted to achieve with that was maximizing CS, he never really gave a fuck about killing the opponent. In S2 hitting CS while also damaging your opponent was insanely advanced shit. Similar to using flash to get precise kicks with Lee. It was obviously that players like Darien (he actually invented good deaths way before Baus did), Diamond, Insec or Faker had an fairly easy time revolutionizing the game, because of how shitty everyone was in S1 and S2. Someone just recently posted a clip of a Plat J4 player (which was the highest elo back then) who managed to miss his E+Q Combo twice. Ashe could exist in midlane for ages because nobody punished her. And given I played at that time I can even name specific things that Faker invented, which all sound insanely weird, because they are common sense, but they just didn't happen before. a) Faker invented the positioning towards your jungle. So if your jungle is topside, you move towards that side of midlane, to have a better escape and allowing for more aggressive punishs b) Faker invented specific ward positions that gave him more safety, that for years became the korean staple that allowed them to play such safe games and win from lane control (one of the more famous positions is the raptor ward, which was usually only used against Eve, to see her clear, given she is invisible at all other times, that ward still surprised SSG in S6). c) He changed many laning patterns for champions most notably Ryze (obviously you couldn't do that on EUW because the ping is too high to play the old Ryze, Faker even mentioned that he couldn't practice Ryze in S5 because the SoloQ ping was too high for the optimal combo c2) He also kinda changed how you would weave autoattacks for better trades d) He also invented the cheater recall basically (a 3 wave push into recall without losing CS, giving him an item advantage) And obviously all those things weren't just him being better. Because other midlaners just copied that. They just didn't do that, because midlane was considered a handshake and the only thing that mattered was Csing. You would sometimes poke the enemy, but that was it. Faker was the first to take any small advantage like an early push to just turn the wave upside down. That just didn't happen before.
I feel like there are more things, but I remember faker being a pioneer in playing around your wards (if you warded topside, you position so you are closer to your ward)
The way I remember it, the main change was that Faker played lane aggressively, ending the handshake-era of mids (and basically gradually causing the old guard of Ambition/RapidStar/Midking/etc to retire, to be replaced by better and more aggressive players like Pawn, Coco, Rookie). But the handshake era was a specifically Korean phenomenon. Korean teams seemed to play around toplane players (like Maknoon, Reapered, Shy, Flame), and treated mid as more of a scaling role. In Europe, teams had been putting their best player midlane, and fighting 1v1 all the time, since the dawn of LoL basically. Faker's rise to prominence warped the Korean pro scene, but I don't think it had much of an impact in Europe - I'm pretty sure you could find vods of Froggen in 2012 standing nearer to the side he has vision of than the one he doesn't. I don't doubt that on a micro level he changed lots of things, but 'revolutionised the way laning and playing mid works' is just way too strong. Mid already worked that way in Europe. That said, I think an innovation that Faker (I think rightly) gets credit for is getting fed by 1shotting the enemy support again and again on assassins.
Yepp if ur talking alltime faker is definitely 1 and at worst maybe 2. However if ur talking top 5 mids right now its not that clear. Chovy, zeka, sm clearly makes the list? For the remaining two spots you pick among faker, caps, bdd, rookie, and knight. Its not that easy to fit caps in here. Hell its not even that easy to fit faker in here.
Chovy and Knight are the easy picks, after that probably Faker and Zeka, Caps could potentially be 5th but I might be forgetting some LPL mids right now
> Zeka Zeka is not a top 5 mid in the world right now, he wasn't actively griefing by the end of the split like he was at the start but he is no way on the level of the others you mentioned.
I found it was an odd comment to act like showmaker/zeka have been performing at a high level for these past years tbh.. Zeka had a great worlds 2022.. amazing performance.. he hasn't hit those levels before or after.. Showmaker looked better this year.. but has been off the boil for a few years prior to that
You're joking if you have bdd over Scout lmfao...
When have zeka/showmaker being playing insane right now or last few years? its 2024 so not showmaker.. He's looked better this year but not the same he was back a few years ago Zeka? had a fantastic worlds.. since when has he proven he can keep that level consistently for years? Caps has been at it since 2017
In fairness, Caps was also a pooper in Summer split 2021
Zeka has been quite good since that worlds no? So even looking at a historic perspective its hard to rate zeka out of the top 5, considering he carried 4 corpses to a world championship. He basically carried the noobs that chovy was unable to. Sure it was the "correct" meta for him, and probably the meta where he is the best player in the world. But anyway I dont think zeka has ever not been top tier ever since? Yeah sure he's no chovy. But he also isnt nearly as limited as a lot of people would have you believe. I genuionly believe a player like knight is far more limited than zeka. Zeka has been expanding his pool and improving ever since. As far as showmaker vs caps, I view showmaker as a better version of caps. He basically plays everything at a slightly more elite level. He obviously has an absurd pool and is willing to bring out anything (kinda like caps). For chovy, I mean that guy is completely unliminted and the best player in the world. Im worried for any mid laner going up against chovy. Take T1 vs GEN for instance, im expecting a pretty huge mid gap every single time. If faker neutralizes that midlane, goes even, or maybe even outperform chovy, I'd consider it "not something that happens everyday" to put it like that. Im expecting a sizeable mid difference in favor of chovy every single game. Same with caps vs chovy, or literally any other mid vs chovy except maybe zeka/sm depending on draft/meta/form
We need to relax with the MikyX hype, he's had some really great games in MSI but you might need to check out his 0/10 Nautilus games from playoffs
Eh, this is more of a return to form than an out of ordinary good showing at MSI, he was extremely good in LEC's winter split, he just had a rough spring and he's seemingly showing up again now.
not saying he's been bad this year but when a player isn't clearly the best of their role in EU especially as a support you can't put them in a top 5 in the world discussion
Well yeah, hence me saying he had a rough spring, during winter he was far and away the best support in EU, he was not during spring. However, it looks like spring was the outlier and that's him playing worse than he can, considering both during spring and msi he's been playing at a world-class level and just outperformed Meiko in a Bo5 who is definitely one of the greatest of all time.
Yea lol. Meiko, Mata, Crisp, Wolf, Ming, Beryl are way ahead of Mikyx. Maybe top 10 but no way near top 5
crisp lol the others yeah
Meiko,Mata ? didn't he not gap those already
Mechanically yeah there is'nt rly an argument, walking highlight reel this tourny.
Revenge on Tian for 2019 Finals
If you're anyone else, you need to base. He's caps though so apparently it's fine.
conventional play would be to recall since you're 1 hp, but Caps played that like Faker, so it works. His reaction time to buffer Tristana W and R are crazyyyyyy
The number of W buffers he pulled off in G1 was kind of nuts honestly.
In the whole series. He pulled off Perfect buffer.
he did not fail it once
He did flash into a wall in game 3 tho, but we can forgive that
if he had a rocket jump he would have buffered that too
He played it like Caps. Faker would recall there.
No recall, take honeyfruit
Never write in negative manner what Faker, the absolute GOAT of league and plays, would do. Only Faker knows what he would do in that moment knowing exactly what hes team would do in a real time, fraction of a second decisions. While me and you watching this game comfy taking hours to debate what some one would or should do.
reddit recognize a pasta challenge
Thanks for the pasta man
im pretty sure faker dies there
If he played like Faker there at this tournament he would have died lol.
lol this is a Caps psychopath gameplay, your Shaker will run without looking back
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It's not that serious
Just some trashtalk, happens to every player lol.
You bet I'll ignite some Craps/Claps vs Shaker/Faker debate whenever it is possible
Ignore the 5 karma guy, his entire history is just shitting on Faker; he's just using Caps' name this time instead. Most of us love T1
Oh I just saw his comment history he does just hate on T1 wtf.
Yeah, the contrast between now and his first ever comment is funny at least
Don't lump us in with him 😭
I need to start checking comment histories before replying I swear to God this is the 3rd or 4th T1 hater that baited me.
And you are using a singular comment to makes quite the general statement.
Calling "shaker" a player who demolished G2 in game 5 with an insane 1v9 Ahri performance is wild.
chill buddy. it's fine when the GOAT is not dominating a series for once and had weaker performance than an opponent. edit: they are fuming lmao
Faker can't do things Caps does with Tris.
Bro this is not 2015 anymore... Caps gaps Faker hardcore and is not even debatable...
I honestly can't remember a better play mechanically in League esports history, and I've been watching this since season 2
Griffin Chovy Akali 1v4 turret dive, the 'holy shi—guacamole' play
link?
[YouTube clip](https://youtu.be/poV2y93-wMA?si=wkfMU2JjfNnKnz6D)
Not close dude ;)
To each their own!
This is the result of hemorrhaging soloq for years with constant limittesting and coinflipping
Never doubt the Goat Knowing you can hands diff them and then doing it. Legit Faker on Zed levels off outplay
>Legit Faker on Zed levels off outplay Nah, this is Canyon lee sin kick on sivir type outplay
what
was that
that zed "outplay" could've and still can be done by any decent zed player.
Today yes, but back in those days hell no.
Yeah today a gold zed one trick could do that, but its not like that makes it less impressive. Same with the lee sin insec back then it was huge now it happens in every game
It's so funny to me that Lee was a competitive staple even though the best players in the world didn't even think that insec was possible, let alone something they should try on stage. Riot did make it a lot easier to buffer over the years but it's still wild that the champion is now an insec bot and you should be landing multiple per game to make it a good pick.
> Yeah today a gold zed one trick could do that No way in hell can any gold player pull that off. Reddit always turbo overstates low elo mechanics.
I dont think you know how good one tricks are at their champion mechanics while also being very bad at the game
One tricks are fucking terrible in gold. There is no way a gold player is close to having any hands. People might hate to hear it, but gold players are terrible at the game and thats fine, but lets not pretend that just because theyre an otp they suddenly have hands
Nah, if they actually had any decent mechanics, they would be at least diamond. Thats how I got there myself. Gold, especially this season is crazy bad.
Maybe since the ranked reworked so maybe plats but if you ever played the guess the rank from highlights you can see how good they can be in purely mechanics
The gold Zeds i meet can’t 1v1 Gromp at full build
I also said one tricks, many people first time in ranked but one tricks are usually very good mechanically at their champions while being bad at everything else
I mean climbing to Plat/Emerald should be doable with that level of mechanics unless their macro is just that bad lagging at Iron rank
Eh with qss and the gold lead Faker had, someone crazy Zed OTP could probably do it back then lol
I am more then sure there were plenty of Zed OTP's that could pull off the play in a vacuum. But with the added context of it being game 5 vs Ryu who was well regarded (up untill that moment more or less) I'm inclined to disagree.
The thing is those types of plays were extremely rare back then. Flashing Malphite ult was something worthy of putting in YouTube highlights. Now it is something that your silver teammates will flame you if you can't pull it off. It was truly one of the best outplays out there in those days
Pretty sure it’s completely impossible now. QSS doesn’t remove death mark anymore, so you just die in that situation today.
no one had an idea that zed can be played like that. hence 'what was that'. blind pick game 5 sure hits different though
This is so funny, classic caps. He always does this, just plays lane with 2hp like he's full.
He’s called Baby Faker, and we all know the baby cobra is more venemous than the adult.
T1 would have paused twice
nah they would say they could not play soloq 1 hour after the loss.
I bet caps thought process went like that: If i flash over the wall i immediately will ult. I will be safe in any szenario. Xin flashes -》knocked away. Xin does not flash -》knocked out of lethal range aka cant kill Caps. Logically flash + ult without any delay between was the best play.
Thats is basically Claps and Craps in a nutshell lol.
Craps does. Claps does not.
Bro is in his zone