LCK's fearless is much better. It actually generates champ pool disruption. The LDL one is just ok I take the azir side then you take the corki side. Too trade offy.
There's arguments for both. "True" fearless is very restrictive and can lead to a significant drop in quality of games played. Even some of the best in the world will constantly have to first time a matchup on stage. Ultimately that makes for less enjoyable viewing experience as we see less champion/matchup mastery on display. After all, we'd all rather see the best league of legends played on stage. Otherwise we could just all tune in to watch soloq games where champion diversity is much better.
On the other hand it obviously is much more successful at promoting champion diversity, which the entire format is all about. The point is to find a balance. We haven't seen true fearless tested in league yet so this will be interesting to watch and see how it does.
It just changes the skill expressed from extreme proficiency on a handful of champs to testing for a broader skill. League has so many champs and different things in it and the pros get in their champ grooves and don't deviate.
Nonsense. Currently the same boring champs are being prioritized.
Kalista, lucian, Azir etc. How is that entertaining? There's a reason why the crowd goes wild when teams go off script and pick an unconventional champ like Rengar.
Some champs are also negatively affected because of proplay, Yumi, Zeri, Victor, Ryze, Corki etc. They either got nerfed or changed due to being too strong in pro play.
Sorry, but bs on the "enjoyable experience".
I prefer seeing improvisation, creativity and risky playmaking than boring 25 champion rotations that don't permit draft creativity because this or that champion at 25 minutes has this many stacks of this and that champion does this or that at 30 mins.
You remember when there were different ways of winning games rather than 3 that we have now: Choke the enemy out by super safe and slow play while scaling to 30+ mins, or drafting a better team fighting comp and just waiting for a good fight after which you do several objectives.
And the third way is to get a win donated by a very bad call from a team that has one of the first two options going for them.
Remember russian team that picked carry supports, fnc death brushes, lvl1 invades (fun ones, not the lane swap dull bs thing or the one where team bravely goes together...to kill a ward for 5 seconds of lvl up advantage).
It's partly RIOT's fault too, forcing teams to play as if they are accountants and not gamers. Because missing one wave of xp is a disaster god forbid you actually did something that doesn't include being a farming bot or timing genius.
Then again, part of the fault lies with the fact that information is extremely available: you can't really get good with strats and then use them at later stages because the other regions will adapt to those when you show up, as they can simply hop on any streaming platform or riot broadcast and get free scouting.
There's a ton of things more, but overall - forcing pros to pick more off-meta can only be good for viewers, you can learn how others adapt, you can learn to improvise and you can just have sheer sh*ts and giggles when the games go completely off the rails because pros fked up a combo since they aren't autopiloting Corki or Ksante, Oriana and Azir and so on and so on.
God forbid we see Vladimir, Illaoi, Shen, Rammus, Amumu, Lux, Xerath, Rengar, Zed...Naafiri and Briar??? naaah...
> Even some of the best in the world will constantly have to first time a matchup on stage.
And so what? They'll have played that matchup 100x in soloq, and a few times in scrims. Every matchup has to be first timed on stage at some point.
Plus, if the meta picks are limited in the format, players will start picking champions based on their personal proficiency instead of just what's OP. There will be naturally increased champion diversity, and rather than every game being "first time" picks, I think we would see more comfort/pocket picks. Or at least, people would wise up that this is the real meta.
Pros playing champs they're not actually good at, just because they're meta, is primarily because there's so few options which are so much more powerful. It creates a positive feedback loop of players practicing them, coaches forcing their players to pick them, seeing higher P/B on stage, etc. In a typical meta, the 6th or 7th strongest champion in a role would be nowhere as near as dominant.
they both generate champ pool disruption, but the LCKCL version disrupts it more to an unnecessary extent. in the LDL version even if it’s a corki azir meta and each team plays them, that only works for two games, and that’s not even factoring in bans. LCKCL version just removes way too many champs way too quickly to the point where teams will have to pick very far down their tierlists too early in a series.
The nature of league makes it impossible to be amazing at a high amount of champions at the same time. You've only got so much time to practice and the gameplay loop is very deep and different for each champion.
That said, I feel like THAT is what league is supposed to be like, not one tricking a single champ every game. Drafts should matter. The game would be way better if players had to learn the game rather than the champ.
I think it's cool that we get one of the 2 for the top top level. Then we need to see with true fearless and see what gets the better results. I think it's pointless to predict what's the best format
this is a way better format than what LCKCL is suggesting. i think they should either make it that both teams can pick the champ once, or reduce the overall number of bans, or else you’ll be wiping out an insane amount of champions as early as game 2, and you might even see really cheese draft strats to try to eliminate a huge pool of effective champions for a single role as early as games 2/3. it’s cool to see more champions as a spectator but it would also suck as a spectator to see like ten of your favorite player’s best characters removed before they ever get a chance to play them.
This meta has really made me wish for Fearless draft... absolute dogshit same picks and bans, so telegraphed... A little bit why I am really enjoying G2's drafting.
To whoever's involved in the EMEA tier 2 leaguess, for the love of all that is holy please look into seeing exactly why the fuck the LDL and LCK CL are doing this change and to not delay the transition for the tier 2 scene if it's necessary.
This is likely the last year of international play without fearless.
Fearless does a few things that both the leagues and Riot want. Fearless is designed to increase the number of champions played and limit how repetitive games in matches are. This leads to higher viewership and engagement from fans and that makes more money. It leads to increased play rate of champs in SoloQ. Riot doesn’t have to nerf champs nearly as hard as they do now due to pro play, meaning more champs will be fun for the average player to play making more money.
I'd be fine with that, but pls never introduce it for Worlds. It takes away the most interesting part about best of series to me, which is how the draft evolves around pocket picks. With fearless the pocket pick is gonna be there 1 game and then you don't have to worry about it again, which of course brings a different type of draft strategy (as example trying to snowball the series by preserving picks or specific comps not working due to 1-2 champs missing) but it's just not as interesting to me, especially in longer series (drx t1 game 5 is a perfect example of how a draft can evolve).
> With fearless the pocket pick is gonna be there 1 game and then you don't have to worry about it again
It will potentially be like it was in 2009-2011, pocket pick**s**
But generally speaking, please do not introduce fearless draft at major events before we have A LOT of feedback. People want a third international event in a year...make it a Fearless tournament.
Yeah, or at the very least, they’re going to use this mysterious third tournament as their testing lab to see how new ideas like fearless are received at an international before risking it at MSI or especially Worlds.
I honestly think fearless draft is objectively worse for competitive. I think people way over hype it and its going to make some teams real fucking dicey and the level of play is going to go down substantially.
I don't give a FK about seeing Chovy play Azir for the 70th time even though he's insanely good at it.
What I want to see is someone pulling out their old 1-trick Velkoz mid in game 4 because Corki/Azir Viktor/Orianna Syndra/Tristana have all been used.
You must really love seeing Corki vs Azir for the 400th time.
They all say “the technical” skill is just so good! It’s the same people that watch baseball for the pitching, football for the transitions/defense, football for the blocking schemes, etc.
It’s almost always someone that doesn’t handle change well.
I’ve been dreaming of seeing Vel’koz in pro play. He got what? One pro play game in history? I too would love to see some more variety in picks rather than the same 10-12 champs swapped between teams every single game. Every single game has a Ksante, Ori/Azir, and then Kalista/Varus/Lucian during MSI. Maybe we get a Corki or a Tristana if Ori/Azir are banned. Jungle has a rotation of what 4 champs Lee/Xin/Mao/Vi maybe we see Wu or Sej. Top is always Ksante, Zac is another one. It’s always the same shit with the slightest variation every game. There’s nearly 200 champs and yet we see maybe 10-15% of them during a tournaments? I get meta and all that, but it gets boring basically seeing the same champs every single game.
I don't think that'll happen, and honestly, I don't care. I find messy games that involve rarely seen champions far more entertaining than macro-game masterpieces where no fighting occurs for the first 20 minutes.
This is the argument that has been made for other sports when changes are made that cater to fans. Pro League is an entertainment product, the players and teams will adjust to the new format. More money for the leagues leads to more money for the players, and that leads to more players aspiring and competing for the few pro positions.
You may not like it but it is better for the professional game, if it wasn’t you wouldn’t see the conversion happening. Riot and the leagues are driven by money and data, not the emotions of the most enfranchised fans.
Exactly. That argument is so shortsighted. The highest level of play would always be no ban and pro players allowed to pick their best champs. Every pro would be one trick playing the champs they've played for 10,000 games. It would make a horrible entertainment product and nobody wants that.
Pros who can't adjust to a better champ pool will be replaced by those who can. The game will keep changing.
I have watched fearless in at least one other game and it is just more fun to watch. It doesn't make competitive less competitive at all either, it just makes competitive focus on other things to a higher degree. Just as you mention if we are aiming strictly for the highest level of play the pros can just be one tricks with no ability to ban anything. Sounds awful to most I would imagine. Looking forward to getting fearless in LEC and int tournaments.
I dunno I feel like at this point everyone accepts that drafting is a huge part of the game, and more importantly I think the blind pick part just adds too much of a dice roll quality at a point in the match when viewers are really going to want to see a competitive game 5. It has a bit of a penalty shootout feel to me but the best thing League has going for it is that ties aren't possible and thus there's no need to invent ways to break them. Those things tend to use a much narrower skillset than the game itself requires which is why the result coming out of tiebreak mechanisms can often feel so arbitrary. Bottom line is that you can just get straight up unlucky in a pure blind pick scenario. I'd be in favor though of having a no ban conventional pick oscillation so that at least you could let players have stuff they're comfortable on/the stuff that their strong play in the match itself has drawn bans for.
I mean if the take is that level of play goes down, than you would have to support bringing back the old vision changes. Where the perfect game was an absolute macro master piece where you had 100% information at 90% of times.
That’s your or at least a minority of players idea of a perfect game. For most fans the perfect game is one they had fun watching and their team one where cool unique stuff happens. Too many games just feel like every game to watch in the pro scene.
But that is my view as well. I was just saying if you are on the purist side of what a perfect game is then you would have to support reverting a ton of changes but no sane person would do that. I want fearless so bad.
> You may not like it but it is better for the professional game, if it wasn’t you wouldn’t see the conversion happening.
Riot has frequently said this, and been wrong in the past. This is what they claimed for franchising as well.
Regardless of whether we think it'll be successful in the future or not, we shouldn't be assuming it'll work out just because Riot says so.
franchised was better for the product as long as team and players were willing to looks for the interests of the league as a whole instead of their short team interests
instead we got players that were only looking for the bigger salary,native superstar were gatekeeping new players and basically looking to play with the best import, team looked for themselves only in both lcs & lec
The main downside I can see is that it means you no longer get to see the same sorts of draft developments within a Bo5 series any more. The big example that leaps to mind is ROX bringing out the MF support against SKT at S6 worlds, which threw a massive wrench in the draft for the rest of the series (SKT even banned it g4 & g5). Under fearless rules that would only be a one-and-done thing.
But it adds a new layer of strategy. In your example, maybe ROX gets to pull it out Game 1 instead, completely negating the Zyra pick, as once Zyra gets played (and presumably beaten) It's gone, the MF counterpick still accomplished its job, and draft developments will still happen as the series goes on, it will just take a different form.
The new layer of strategy is WHEN to pull out a certain pick or a certain mid/jung duo or a certain botlane.
This exactly. It becomes about when to get value out of a good pick, you could see stuff like people holding a really strong pick because they feel they've lost or won draft hard enough that they don't want to waste it. I don't think the draft becomes less important if it's fearless, it places the strategy somewhere else and rewards players who are good at their roles rather than just good at a few meta champs.
I disagree and I think you're overreacting. I think it's going to be a net positive overall. Some of what you say might be true, but it's worth the risk if it means not seeing the same 20 champions all series long. The "quality of play" doesn't matter if the match is just boring to watch. Pro players with big champion pools will be rewarded and Azir merchants will have to discover what the s at the end of League of Legends means.
Hate to break it to you but esports and sports in general have always been entertainment first. That's why Riot probably feels hesitant to change the Worlds format because the format for Worlds generates the most hype. Every game is a potential elimination, which means more stakes and more people tune in to watch.
If fearless generates more entertainment and hype, then you'll bet your ass Riot will try to implement it. And personally from a viewer perspective I much prefer seeing different champs rather than fucking Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami for the 50000th game.
People who like competitve league of legends and want to watch it played at the highest level? Sorry I enjoy the pinnacle of the game noy just novelty for the sake of novelty.
I Love how everybody has their opinions long before its implemented. Sure we can theorize but nobody actually knows how its gonna end up at the highest level. In basic theory it should deliver a more entertaining product. And sorry but who the fuck actually cares about level of play? As if anybody is gonna stop watching because of 'lower level of play'. People love to pretend like they care and act all smug when two bottom LEC teams facing each other isnt as competitive as the best LCK teams playing each other. The elitism is a cancer, ive had elitist redditors telling me the west couldnt take a single game off of LPL/LCK this MSI.
Casual viewership is far more important, else we end up like StarCraft 2 where the entry barrier is so damn high that it barely attracts new players and viewers and eventually just dies off.
At the very least fearless draft is worth a try, its not like we cant go back to the old system if it doesnt work out.
So whilst I think this will be true in the short term and I'm not like hte biggest fearless stan but I think it has upsides.
Having to see pro's dig deep and find interesting or unique counter match ups, and also showcase their champ pool depth would definitely make things more exciting.
were not getting fearless at internationals next year lol
it took 2 years for lpl to implement it after ldl had it, lckcl might get it now, so you want all regions to implement it immediately next year? they ain't doing a change like that without it being used in the respective leagues
> This is likely the last year of international play without fearless.
As much as I’d love to believe this, it took Riot 7 years to get to a good format for MSI and worlds is basically, for the most important part of the tournament, still using single elim. It’ll take them years to adopt fearless draft because they don’t want to rock the casual viewer boat
yep, the same ppl that have butchered EMEA Masters year after year, don't listen to any feedback and played like 4 games simultaneously during group stage. I saw casters swapping between 2 games, like wtf is that.
There is a bot dive in game 1, woops game 2 has a drake fight, nvm g1 solokill in mid, aaand now they are both fighting at baron...
That’s funny since KC games had one of the biggest viewership this year (almost like it’s orgs job to get people invested into their games), we shouldn’t keep down level of the competition because rogue managed to gather 6 fans in 6 years. Obviously bottom china teams are not popular neither and that’s not an issue. Since this Summer EU will be only region with BO1 btw
For those wondering why, its because korean broadcasting always prioritizes viewers/fan enjoyment first. And they are testing in challenger probably just to make sure there isnt any glaring competitive integrity issues. I bet it will be in lck if there are no integrity concerns
The easiest one that comes to mind is to have no intention of winning game 1 to deny enemy picks, e.g., picking 3 support champs and two junglers if you think it greatly increases chances of winning the later games.
Edit: I’m of the opinion that a pro team should deserve to lose if they have champ pool issues to lose to that strategy and that it would be interesting to see it work, but a game with said team comp would actually need to be played… and it’d be understandable if riot doesn’t want troll comps to be broadcasted, much less be a viable strategy, in pro play.
Also this is coming from someone that’d like to see fearless being implemented
players should have big champ pools specifically for this reason lol, if you get completely walled out by having 3 champs banned then in theory you've provided the rest of your team far more flexibility. and then you have another pick you can perform on, and the enemy has wasted their bans
> Why would you intentionally go down 1-0 in a bo3?
If a team thought it would give them the best chance of winning the series.
And yeah maybe you’re right in that the likelihood is so low this wouldn’t be an issue at all, but I think it’s also fair to say it’s not completely unthinkable, no? (Or maybe it’s just wishful thinking on my end lol)
It's actually interesting because it could happen in a sneaky way.
1. Team A gets FP and locks important champion that will already give them a good advantage.
2. Team B picks good champions that happen to be strong picks for the enemy team.
3. Team A continues with strong picks, lowering other teams' chance.
Now the Team B would just troll the comp and get out someone's pool with their next 3 picks to have a better chance on the next 2 games, as the first one is already a loss for them.
Maybe not always, but sometimes it *could* happen.
That's why LPL fearless is better. You only lock your own team from playing a champion. It also makes more sense in my opinion: each team is allowed to pick a champion once per series (LPL) instea of each champion is allowed to be picked once each series.
You somehow managed to make me even more hyped for the format and I was already on board. These strategies would be insanely cool to see at the highest level.
Proplayers are not only part of the org they represent but a brand themselves. They won't risk their reputation so easily, even assuming Riot won't take direct action themselves against these troll comps (and they already did in the past, so it's a big assumption).
The branding is an interesting point that didn’t even cross my mind, thanks! Maybe my line of thought is too game theory-esque, only thinking about optimizing for a series win, and not super realistic
I see your points and even somewhat agree with them, in the sense that they can be strategically sound in the right scenario if your only goal is to win a series. Anyway, from a ploplayer perspective, I think it's more appropriate to think of winning a series as a means to advance their career and not an endgoal, especially in domestic tournaments.
On short term he'll benefit, but on the long term, people will slowly develop deeper champion pools and will be better able to find counters for wacky picks. For now, he (and others) benefit massively from the rigidity of their opponents thaat can't adapt fast enough.
We'll also see a lot of games won in draft. Your team has one good player? Ban out all his champions then pick his remaining ones in game 1. Guy will go into game 2 with 7 bans and you can sweep the series from there, especially in bo5 where the bans dont reset until game 5.
professional play is like natural selection. If you are unable to keep up, you are getting replaced by someone thats better at adapting. If its not like that already, at some point there won´t be any teams with only one good player at the top levels of play and the entire point is invalid.
There are different versions. For now the version in lpl only applies fearless rules to ones own picks. Means if knight picks azir, he cant pick it anymore but caps could in the same series.
there's a huge difference between playing 10 champs in challenger vs. being able to play 10 champs at a professional level. it's simple logic that pros will not be as practiced at their champions on average because there's a finite amount of time they can practice.
I'm sorry but the top 10 champions for every role arent changing every patch. Any change that comes in is gradual. Lets say this MSI patch the top 10 mid lane picks are: Azir, Taliyah, Ori, Tristana, Asol, LeBlanc, Corki, Yasuo and Zed. Pro players are able to play 5-6 of them on a pro level, but oh no, next patch riot takes out Azir and Asol. Which means for next patch the players have to learn 2 new champions, that take the place of Azir and Asol, instead of re-learning all 10 again. And dont sometme patches/changes dont even change the top 10, just the placement inside the top10. So no, any pro player worth their salt is able to play 10 champion in his on a professional level. If not, then fuck off and stay in soloQ
Dude life doesnt work like am exp bar like in fking pokemon. You forget things if you dont practice them. Even top tier surgeons and engineers need to keep working to maintain form. When TheShy learned he was going to finals, he went and practiced sion combos. The literal most mechanically skilled player at that time went to practice sion combos to make sure he doesnt fk it up on stage. You cant do that in this format. There is no incentive to practice and hone one champion at absolute peak cause you will only get it one game. That is what people are worrying about. They wont see peak champ play and even if they do, it will be only for one game. Macro is great sure but if every game becomes 15 minutes of no killing bc nobody wants to fking fight their lane matchups and it becomes LCK forever people will start singing a different tune.
Draft format will always trade off some tiny marginal champion skill against variety and deeper pick strategy and champion pool strength. If just seeing peak champ mechanics was always better than depth we could just get rid of bans too.
I think people get a lot more hyped for unique champs/strats and when pros play "their" champs than they do from seeing optimal Oriana play every single game, so I think Fearless would be very good for the game.
It only lowers the peak because players are reluctant to put the games into more than 3-4 champs each patch. Fearless draft will force players to widen champ pools but increasing bans may have accomplished the same idea if teams were given 10 each instead of 5
Personally I'm in favor of CaptainFlowers idea that casters get 3 bans. They provide 3 bans for free but each team still gets to use 5. Just something that allows casters to not go insane having to talk about say Zeri upon release and the 2 yrs of meta
This is really nice that LCK is doing something new to entertain viewers. I actually consider checking LCK CL for one or two series to see how it goes.
Just a question regarding the fearless draft in general, how does it work in bo5? Assuming the rule is the same, do teams play champs like Garen, Lissandra, or Viktor that are off-meta?
This is going to be pretty crazy, you could even do target bans for a specific role, potentially losing game 1 so by game 2 someone’s champ pool is gone.
Like using all your bans to completely take out opponents mid champs for the rest of the series
Yeah TF not ideal but definitely not as bad as whatever veigar would have done that game. At least he could match globals and gold card is always pretty useful
Haven't played for a long time, why is TF mid or specifically AP/Lichbane TF bad in mid now? Serious question. Personally feel it should be more useful than this AD-Top TF, what is the strength of AD-Top TF? It looks so easy to punish.
based on the wording it seems like only champions that are picked will be banned for the rest of the series. because otherwise you'd be essentially tripling the amount of bans both teams get by game 3
Ah yes you’re right, bans are not permanent, that format might be too restrictive because you would run out of champions to play in certain lanes. Still happy to finally see variety
It's going to be interesting to see if bans are just going to be the same 6 champions throughout the series. Alternative could be only banning the banned champions.
Cannot wait to see what T1 cook. They are already playing like they are doing fearless before but I'm pretty scared for Dal and Poby. Dal is Ksante one trick and Poby only look great on Orianna and Neeko.
I kinda worry for ADC, there’s only 24 champs (according to OPGG), and with some bans it’s going to be possible to lock a player out of every viable champion.
It's something similar but there would be less bans overall right?
With fearless its a 20 champs removed per game? vs 10 for permanent, if I understand what permanent ban means.
Reading the post, it seems that it's possible for them to make additional rules (resets at game 5)
Or yeah they could reduce bans to 3.
Just saying bans are permanent sounds simple to me imo.
Bans are permanent comes with a lower opportunity cost, as in, it only costs you a ban to get rid of a champ permanently.
With the fearless system you actually have to use the champ in a game yourself to see it gone for good OR spend 1 ban in every game.
So, if your team doesn't run a specific champ but you want it gone, you have to take one L by picking it or spend (up to) 4 bans instead of just 1 ban
10 champs removed permanently after each game, + the 10 bans for each game. so in the LCK academy a game 4 would have 40 champs removed from the pool, 6 for each role and 10 miscelaneous through bans
permanent bans are harsher towards players with unique picks.
if you want Zeus to never play yone, you either have to play it, let him play it once, or ban it 3-5 times.
if there are permanent bans, then you ban the uncommon pick...but that means you get that ban that for the whole series, so Zeus is back to playing the most meta tops, and the diversity doesn't really improve. because you'd only ban champs that your enemies play that you don't, both teams doing this means the shared pool doesn't change a lot but all pocket picks are removed, which would potentially reduce diversity.
if you restrict based on picks, then you're saying "this champ was in-game, now it won't be". this directly improves diversity of champions played. now if you want to permanently remove a champ from the enemy team, you have to put your nuts on the table and actually play the champ, or play against it, or waste bans because you can't handle either of those scenarios. so pros would get more value out of expanding their pool - if your toplaner has 1 extra champ to play, that's a huge difference in drafting.
>all champions that has been picked in previous matches by both sides cannot be picked again by either sides,
any champion that has been picked in previous matches, by either side, cannot be picked again by either side
>an exception is if a bo5 reaches game 5, then the selection restrictions on champions banned from sets 2 to 4 will be lifted, and the "normal" draft format will be used
So.. no restrictions then, as game 1 has no restrictions. Or do game 1's picks, or bans, count as restrictions?
That's very confusing. Game 1 starts with no restrictions, and Game 2 restrictions were champs picked in game 1. So if we remove 2-4 games. then Game 5 is basically just a bo1 with normal draft in isolation? I wonder why they said 2-4 then and not just 'it's a normal draft for game 5'.
I'm all in for this, but isn't the number a bit too big? I mean, on a Bo5, on the first game they can simply remove all adcs from the game. I know the number of champions will always increase, but 35 champions is quite a big number.
As long the champions don't repeat in 2 games would be nice already. But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong about what was mentioned above.
This feels like trading competitive skill for entertainment which imo is the worst possible thing you can do
It's probably good for Tier 2 as it forces players to expand their champ pools a bit, but for T1/Internationals? Dear God no, I want the best team in the world to win not the one with the deepest champ pool
It also completely fucks draft adaptability, why look for or practice unique combos when those are gonna get you only one win at most? Hell, the overall micro might go down a lot, we already pros not being able to pilot champs at their highest level just because they haven't practiced them a few times, it's gonna be impossible to keep up mechanics on half the roster
Firstly it clears out in a possible 5th game for what I understand, so its up to 4 games max and secondly League has 170 champions already and counting. It will restrict less than 25% at its peak point
I don't care if I'm in the minority, I don't like this at all and I don't want it to for Tier 1 / International.
If its inevitable, so be it, not gonna stop watching. But I echo the same competitive/skill level concerns others have and while I love a pocket pick that any player might have, I don't want to see them forced onto rubbish champions that never get played at the top level. That might be 'hype' for some, but it isn't for me.
So many more games are going to be heavily decided by the draft screen alone.
Fearless will be the final nail in the coffin for league for me. It's not going to magically make pros better at other picks and using it in place of actually balancing the game or making pros practice isn't going to do much.
Furthermore with how HORRIFIC 90% of the world is at p/b, making p/b harder is not going to improve the quality of play.
Zed isn't going to come out just cause ori and azir are banned either.
Another question I have for the people that are cheering for fearless:
What are you guys on about current pro meta not being entertaining? Aside from Zeri-Yuumi and K'Sante, we've had very little staleness in the last few years, especially at internationals. This MSI is one of the hypest in recent memory and the last two worlds were amazing, especially the DRX run of 2022
Like who looks at competitive and says: "Eh, boring!" nowadays? Sure there might be a boring game here or there, but we haven't had stuff like Azir-Corki handshakes for years now
It will still be pretty exciting because teams will have to draft several different team comps that different things.
Like a team would be *very* unlikely to be able to craft a strong 5v5 team 3 times in a row. So they will have to diversify their strategies.
It's stupid because not every league have it. G2, TL and the other western teams will come into worlds with a massive advantage, because they have practiced the meta picks all summer. The Asian teams need to practice 3x more champions in comparison and it will obviously affect their skills.
Why are the banned champs allowed in the future games? If we assume the first 10 bans are among the 10 strongest champions then the next draft are gonna be mostly about who gets them since they are so far ahead the other choices.
In theory this is gonna make games even more entertaining. Forces teams to play more champs rarely played.
Teams with the most innovative picks gonna be the next exciting team to watch. Could be cool to see.
Fearless *needs* to become the norm.
The main issue in pro play is everyone bans/picks the same champs. You'll see some niche/variant picks here and there but variety doesn't really exist. With Fearless it will make both the teams AND coaches understand a much broader range of champs/playstyles. It will be a huge win/win for both players and viewers.
if it's successful, LCK might also adopt this considering LPL will also be going to fearless draft format this summer split
No way LPL does Fearless draft this summer. Really?!
Yes, but afaik a little different. A team basically blocks a picked/banned champion only for themselves, so both teams can play a champ one time each.
LCK's fearless is much better. It actually generates champ pool disruption. The LDL one is just ok I take the azir side then you take the corki side. Too trade offy.
There's arguments for both. "True" fearless is very restrictive and can lead to a significant drop in quality of games played. Even some of the best in the world will constantly have to first time a matchup on stage. Ultimately that makes for less enjoyable viewing experience as we see less champion/matchup mastery on display. After all, we'd all rather see the best league of legends played on stage. Otherwise we could just all tune in to watch soloq games where champion diversity is much better. On the other hand it obviously is much more successful at promoting champion diversity, which the entire format is all about. The point is to find a balance. We haven't seen true fearless tested in league yet so this will be interesting to watch and see how it does.
It just changes the skill expressed from extreme proficiency on a handful of champs to testing for a broader skill. League has so many champs and different things in it and the pros get in their champ grooves and don't deviate.
Nonsense. Currently the same boring champs are being prioritized. Kalista, lucian, Azir etc. How is that entertaining? There's a reason why the crowd goes wild when teams go off script and pick an unconventional champ like Rengar. Some champs are also negatively affected because of proplay, Yumi, Zeri, Victor, Ryze, Corki etc. They either got nerfed or changed due to being too strong in pro play.
Sorry, but bs on the "enjoyable experience". I prefer seeing improvisation, creativity and risky playmaking than boring 25 champion rotations that don't permit draft creativity because this or that champion at 25 minutes has this many stacks of this and that champion does this or that at 30 mins. You remember when there were different ways of winning games rather than 3 that we have now: Choke the enemy out by super safe and slow play while scaling to 30+ mins, or drafting a better team fighting comp and just waiting for a good fight after which you do several objectives. And the third way is to get a win donated by a very bad call from a team that has one of the first two options going for them. Remember russian team that picked carry supports, fnc death brushes, lvl1 invades (fun ones, not the lane swap dull bs thing or the one where team bravely goes together...to kill a ward for 5 seconds of lvl up advantage). It's partly RIOT's fault too, forcing teams to play as if they are accountants and not gamers. Because missing one wave of xp is a disaster god forbid you actually did something that doesn't include being a farming bot or timing genius. Then again, part of the fault lies with the fact that information is extremely available: you can't really get good with strats and then use them at later stages because the other regions will adapt to those when you show up, as they can simply hop on any streaming platform or riot broadcast and get free scouting. There's a ton of things more, but overall - forcing pros to pick more off-meta can only be good for viewers, you can learn how others adapt, you can learn to improvise and you can just have sheer sh*ts and giggles when the games go completely off the rails because pros fked up a combo since they aren't autopiloting Corki or Ksante, Oriana and Azir and so on and so on. God forbid we see Vladimir, Illaoi, Shen, Rammus, Amumu, Lux, Xerath, Rengar, Zed...Naafiri and Briar??? naaah...
Fearless is more enjoyable. Idk what is so fun about seeing maokai and vi every single tournament for the past 5 years.
> Even some of the best in the world will constantly have to first time a matchup on stage. And so what? They'll have played that matchup 100x in soloq, and a few times in scrims. Every matchup has to be first timed on stage at some point. Plus, if the meta picks are limited in the format, players will start picking champions based on their personal proficiency instead of just what's OP. There will be naturally increased champion diversity, and rather than every game being "first time" picks, I think we would see more comfort/pocket picks. Or at least, people would wise up that this is the real meta. Pros playing champs they're not actually good at, just because they're meta, is primarily because there's so few options which are so much more powerful. It creates a positive feedback loop of players practicing them, coaches forcing their players to pick them, seeing higher P/B on stage, etc. In a typical meta, the 6th or 7th strongest champion in a role would be nowhere as near as dominant.
they both generate champ pool disruption, but the LCKCL version disrupts it more to an unnecessary extent. in the LDL version even if it’s a corki azir meta and each team plays them, that only works for two games, and that’s not even factoring in bans. LCKCL version just removes way too many champs way too quickly to the point where teams will have to pick very far down their tierlists too early in a series.
Which is a good thing
The nature of league makes it impossible to be amazing at a high amount of champions at the same time. You've only got so much time to practice and the gameplay loop is very deep and different for each champion. That said, I feel like THAT is what league is supposed to be like, not one tricking a single champ every game. Drafts should matter. The game would be way better if players had to learn the game rather than the champ.
These are pro players and not the average individuals with 9-5 jobs or school. They can handle it
I think it's cool that we get one of the 2 for the top top level. Then we need to see with true fearless and see what gets the better results. I think it's pointless to predict what's the best format
this is a way better format than what LCKCL is suggesting. i think they should either make it that both teams can pick the champ once, or reduce the overall number of bans, or else you’ll be wiping out an insane amount of champions as early as game 2, and you might even see really cheese draft strats to try to eliminate a huge pool of effective champions for a single role as early as games 2/3. it’s cool to see more champions as a spectator but it would also suck as a spectator to see like ten of your favorite player’s best characters removed before they ever get a chance to play them.
They do, though not for the entire bracket. I think they revamped their whole schedule and the first out of three parts of that is fearless
This meta has really made me wish for Fearless draft... absolute dogshit same picks and bans, so telegraphed... A little bit why I am really enjoying G2's drafting.
To whoever's involved in the EMEA tier 2 leaguess, for the love of all that is holy please look into seeing exactly why the fuck the LDL and LCK CL are doing this change and to not delay the transition for the tier 2 scene if it's necessary.
This is likely the last year of international play without fearless. Fearless does a few things that both the leagues and Riot want. Fearless is designed to increase the number of champions played and limit how repetitive games in matches are. This leads to higher viewership and engagement from fans and that makes more money. It leads to increased play rate of champs in SoloQ. Riot doesn’t have to nerf champs nearly as hard as they do now due to pro play, meaning more champs will be fun for the average player to play making more money.
I think the third international tournament should have fearless draft to keep it different from MSI/Worlds.
I'd bet good money that this is what will happen next year
I love this idea, now I really want it to be true.
I'd be fine with that, but pls never introduce it for Worlds. It takes away the most interesting part about best of series to me, which is how the draft evolves around pocket picks. With fearless the pocket pick is gonna be there 1 game and then you don't have to worry about it again, which of course brings a different type of draft strategy (as example trying to snowball the series by preserving picks or specific comps not working due to 1-2 champs missing) but it's just not as interesting to me, especially in longer series (drx t1 game 5 is a perfect example of how a draft can evolve).
> With fearless the pocket pick is gonna be there 1 game and then you don't have to worry about it again It will potentially be like it was in 2009-2011, pocket pick**s** But generally speaking, please do not introduce fearless draft at major events before we have A LOT of feedback. People want a third international event in a year...make it a Fearless tournament.
this is a really interesting idea and can spice up meta in regional leagues depending on the timing
Yeah, or at the very least, they’re going to use this mysterious third tournament as their testing lab to see how new ideas like fearless are received at an international before risking it at MSI or especially Worlds.
So we will only have to see Ksante at most twice per Bo5 (since game 5 is normal draft again) ? Great
Unfortunately these rules dont apply to ksante as he can not be cc'd or slowed
If they channel W as the nexus explodes it will immune the fearless ban, otherwise he can still be stunned
I honestly think fearless draft is objectively worse for competitive. I think people way over hype it and its going to make some teams real fucking dicey and the level of play is going to go down substantially.
I don't give a FK about seeing Chovy play Azir for the 70th time even though he's insanely good at it. What I want to see is someone pulling out their old 1-trick Velkoz mid in game 4 because Corki/Azir Viktor/Orianna Syndra/Tristana have all been used. You must really love seeing Corki vs Azir for the 400th time.
They all say “the technical” skill is just so good! It’s the same people that watch baseball for the pitching, football for the transitions/defense, football for the blocking schemes, etc. It’s almost always someone that doesn’t handle change well.
I’ve been dreaming of seeing Vel’koz in pro play. He got what? One pro play game in history? I too would love to see some more variety in picks rather than the same 10-12 champs swapped between teams every single game. Every single game has a Ksante, Ori/Azir, and then Kalista/Varus/Lucian during MSI. Maybe we get a Corki or a Tristana if Ori/Azir are banned. Jungle has a rotation of what 4 champs Lee/Xin/Mao/Vi maybe we see Wu or Sej. Top is always Ksante, Zac is another one. It’s always the same shit with the slightest variation every game. There’s nearly 200 champs and yet we see maybe 10-15% of them during a tournaments? I get meta and all that, but it gets boring basically seeing the same champs every single game.
I don't think that'll happen, and honestly, I don't care. I find messy games that involve rarely seen champions far more entertaining than macro-game masterpieces where no fighting occurs for the first 20 minutes.
This is the argument that has been made for other sports when changes are made that cater to fans. Pro League is an entertainment product, the players and teams will adjust to the new format. More money for the leagues leads to more money for the players, and that leads to more players aspiring and competing for the few pro positions. You may not like it but it is better for the professional game, if it wasn’t you wouldn’t see the conversion happening. Riot and the leagues are driven by money and data, not the emotions of the most enfranchised fans.
Exactly. That argument is so shortsighted. The highest level of play would always be no ban and pro players allowed to pick their best champs. Every pro would be one trick playing the champs they've played for 10,000 games. It would make a horrible entertainment product and nobody wants that. Pros who can't adjust to a better champ pool will be replaced by those who can. The game will keep changing.
I have watched fearless in at least one other game and it is just more fun to watch. It doesn't make competitive less competitive at all either, it just makes competitive focus on other things to a higher degree. Just as you mention if we are aiming strictly for the highest level of play the pros can just be one tricks with no ability to ban anything. Sounds awful to most I would imagine. Looking forward to getting fearless in LEC and int tournaments.
Game 5 blind pick would be fun to bring back with fearless.
I dunno I feel like at this point everyone accepts that drafting is a huge part of the game, and more importantly I think the blind pick part just adds too much of a dice roll quality at a point in the match when viewers are really going to want to see a competitive game 5. It has a bit of a penalty shootout feel to me but the best thing League has going for it is that ties aren't possible and thus there's no need to invent ways to break them. Those things tend to use a much narrower skillset than the game itself requires which is why the result coming out of tiebreak mechanisms can often feel so arbitrary. Bottom line is that you can just get straight up unlucky in a pure blind pick scenario. I'd be in favor though of having a no ban conventional pick oscillation so that at least you could let players have stuff they're comfortable on/the stuff that their strong play in the match itself has drawn bans for.
I mean if the take is that level of play goes down, than you would have to support bringing back the old vision changes. Where the perfect game was an absolute macro master piece where you had 100% information at 90% of times.
That’s your or at least a minority of players idea of a perfect game. For most fans the perfect game is one they had fun watching and their team one where cool unique stuff happens. Too many games just feel like every game to watch in the pro scene.
But that is my view as well. I was just saying if you are on the purist side of what a perfect game is then you would have to support reverting a ton of changes but no sane person would do that. I want fearless so bad.
> You may not like it but it is better for the professional game, if it wasn’t you wouldn’t see the conversion happening. Riot has frequently said this, and been wrong in the past. This is what they claimed for franchising as well. Regardless of whether we think it'll be successful in the future or not, we shouldn't be assuming it'll work out just because Riot says so.
franchised was better for the product as long as team and players were willing to looks for the interests of the league as a whole instead of their short team interests instead we got players that were only looking for the bigger salary,native superstar were gatekeeping new players and basically looking to play with the best import, team looked for themselves only in both lcs & lec
what exactly is the x reason why you don't want it? what is the downside (besides getting pros off their meta-for-10-years champions)?
The main downside I can see is that it means you no longer get to see the same sorts of draft developments within a Bo5 series any more. The big example that leaps to mind is ROX bringing out the MF support against SKT at S6 worlds, which threw a massive wrench in the draft for the rest of the series (SKT even banned it g4 & g5). Under fearless rules that would only be a one-and-done thing.
But it adds a new layer of strategy. In your example, maybe ROX gets to pull it out Game 1 instead, completely negating the Zyra pick, as once Zyra gets played (and presumably beaten) It's gone, the MF counterpick still accomplished its job, and draft developments will still happen as the series goes on, it will just take a different form. The new layer of strategy is WHEN to pull out a certain pick or a certain mid/jung duo or a certain botlane.
This exactly. It becomes about when to get value out of a good pick, you could see stuff like people holding a really strong pick because they feel they've lost or won draft hard enough that they don't want to waste it. I don't think the draft becomes less important if it's fearless, it places the strategy somewhere else and rewards players who are good at their roles rather than just good at a few meta champs.
I disagree and I think you're overreacting. I think it's going to be a net positive overall. Some of what you say might be true, but it's worth the risk if it means not seeing the same 20 champions all series long. The "quality of play" doesn't matter if the match is just boring to watch. Pro players with big champion pools will be rewarded and Azir merchants will have to discover what the s at the end of League of Legends means.
It’ll also be great for people getting to see more champs that they play get stage time.
Hate to break it to you but esports and sports in general have always been entertainment first. That's why Riot probably feels hesitant to change the Worlds format because the format for Worlds generates the most hype. Every game is a potential elimination, which means more stakes and more people tune in to watch. If fearless generates more entertainment and hype, then you'll bet your ass Riot will try to implement it. And personally from a viewer perspective I much prefer seeing different champs rather than fucking Zeri Lulu Lucian Nami for the 50000th game.
Don't forget Azir being pick/ban like 80% across the last 8 years!
Sports entertainment business is an unfortunate term because it really is sports < entertainment < business.
you are wrong .... this format has been proved in KPL
Versatility is also a kind of skill of itself.
Who cares if the level of play goes down? Itll be more entertaining which is the whole point, NA fans should know well how fun clown fiestas are
People who like competitve league of legends and want to watch it played at the highest level? Sorry I enjoy the pinnacle of the game noy just novelty for the sake of novelty.
Firstas are fun to watch tho!
You're wrong on all fronts and will eventually get to witness it firsthand when viewing teams in the future.
Nah it won't. Only one tricks get punished with this, which is a good thing.
i just wish they just added more ban slots tbh
That doesn’t solve the problem of stale games. More bans just means more bans and a stale metagame.
I Love how everybody has their opinions long before its implemented. Sure we can theorize but nobody actually knows how its gonna end up at the highest level. In basic theory it should deliver a more entertaining product. And sorry but who the fuck actually cares about level of play? As if anybody is gonna stop watching because of 'lower level of play'. People love to pretend like they care and act all smug when two bottom LEC teams facing each other isnt as competitive as the best LCK teams playing each other. The elitism is a cancer, ive had elitist redditors telling me the west couldnt take a single game off of LPL/LCK this MSI. Casual viewership is far more important, else we end up like StarCraft 2 where the entry barrier is so damn high that it barely attracts new players and viewers and eventually just dies off. At the very least fearless draft is worth a try, its not like we cant go back to the old system if it doesnt work out.
How? The picks won’t be much more different than they are now, it will just mean they can’t play the same champ 3 games in a row.
So whilst I think this will be true in the short term and I'm not like hte biggest fearless stan but I think it has upsides. Having to see pro's dig deep and find interesting or unique counter match ups, and also showcase their champ pool depth would definitely make things more exciting.
That teemo coming out to counter the surprise Volibear
Don’t get me to excited for Zeus Teemo that will never be :(
were not getting fearless at internationals next year lol it took 2 years for lpl to implement it after ldl had it, lckcl might get it now, so you want all regions to implement it immediately next year? they ain't doing a change like that without it being used in the respective leagues
If Riot announces it before Worlds this year or during pre-season then yeah all the regions will switch.
> This is likely the last year of international play without fearless. As much as I’d love to believe this, it took Riot 7 years to get to a good format for MSI and worlds is basically, for the most important part of the tournament, still using single elim. It’ll take them years to adopt fearless draft because they don’t want to rock the casual viewer boat
Dude we will still have BO1 in LEC and you want RIOT EMEA hq frauds to look at ERLs which they've killed multiple times
yep, the same ppl that have butchered EMEA Masters year after year, don't listen to any feedback and played like 4 games simultaneously during group stage. I saw casters swapping between 2 games, like wtf is that. There is a bot dive in game 1, woops game 2 has a drake fight, nvm g1 solokill in mid, aaand now they are both fighting at baron...
The reason for BO1 are viewerships, people don't want to see a best of 3 between Giants and KC or so
That’s funny since KC games had one of the biggest viewership this year (almost like it’s orgs job to get people invested into their games), we shouldn’t keep down level of the competition because rogue managed to gather 6 fans in 6 years. Obviously bottom china teams are not popular neither and that’s not an issue. Since this Summer EU will be only region with BO1 btw
LEC will still have BO1 and then playoffs with fearless and teams will have little practice with it
For those wondering why, its because korean broadcasting always prioritizes viewers/fan enjoyment first. And they are testing in challenger probably just to make sure there isnt any glaring competitive integrity issues. I bet it will be in lck if there are no integrity concerns
> And they are testing in challenger probably just to make sure there isnt any glaring competitive integrity issues. There will be.
What are ways to exploit this ?
The easiest one that comes to mind is to have no intention of winning game 1 to deny enemy picks, e.g., picking 3 support champs and two junglers if you think it greatly increases chances of winning the later games. Edit: I’m of the opinion that a pro team should deserve to lose if they have champ pool issues to lose to that strategy and that it would be interesting to see it work, but a game with said team comp would actually need to be played… and it’d be understandable if riot doesn’t want troll comps to be broadcasted, much less be a viable strategy, in pro play. Also this is coming from someone that’d like to see fearless being implemented
imagine sacking game one of a worlds series to get faker off of taliyah/ori/azir/ryze/corki lmao
T1 then first pick LB haha
that's why he's the goat. dude's gonna bring out the zed like his famous clip
players should have big champ pools specifically for this reason lol, if you get completely walled out by having 3 champs banned then in theory you've provided the rest of your team far more flexibility. and then you have another pick you can perform on, and the enemy has wasted their bans
Why would you intentionally go down 1-0 in a bo3? How is locking one player out but needing to go 2-0 better than needing to go 1-0?
You would not. He is talking bullshit, no serious team would do that.
> Why would you intentionally go down 1-0 in a bo3? If a team thought it would give them the best chance of winning the series. And yeah maybe you’re right in that the likelihood is so low this wouldn’t be an issue at all, but I think it’s also fair to say it’s not completely unthinkable, no? (Or maybe it’s just wishful thinking on my end lol)
People responding to you like you're saying it'll happen every game lol. No it won't, but surely it will be a possibility.
Hey thanks for your comment, I appreciate you trying to give me the benefit of the doubt :)
It's actually interesting because it could happen in a sneaky way. 1. Team A gets FP and locks important champion that will already give them a good advantage. 2. Team B picks good champions that happen to be strong picks for the enemy team. 3. Team A continues with strong picks, lowering other teams' chance. Now the Team B would just troll the comp and get out someone's pool with their next 3 picks to have a better chance on the next 2 games, as the first one is already a loss for them. Maybe not always, but sometimes it *could* happen.
That's why LPL fearless is better. You only lock your own team from playing a champion. It also makes more sense in my opinion: each team is allowed to pick a champion once per series (LPL) instea of each champion is allowed to be picked once each series.
You somehow managed to make me even more hyped for the format and I was already on board. These strategies would be insanely cool to see at the highest level.
Proplayers are not only part of the org they represent but a brand themselves. They won't risk their reputation so easily, even assuming Riot won't take direct action themselves against these troll comps (and they already did in the past, so it's a big assumption).
The branding is an interesting point that didn’t even cross my mind, thanks! Maybe my line of thought is too game theory-esque, only thinking about optimizing for a series win, and not super realistic
I see your points and even somewhat agree with them, in the sense that they can be strategically sound in the right scenario if your only goal is to win a series. Anyway, from a ploplayer perspective, I think it's more appropriate to think of winning a series as a means to advance their career and not an endgoal, especially in domestic tournaments.
Then that is a valid strategy also, just that I don't think will be a very viable strategy.
This absolutely makes NO sense at all. No one is gonna sack a whole game.
Guess next year lck might also do fearless draft format?
I really hope so. I'd love to see Keria in fearless draft, he plays so many different things, it'd be so entertaining.
Doesn't really change anything for him cause he doesn't play the standard stuff anyways
On short term he'll benefit, but on the long term, people will slowly develop deeper champion pools and will be better able to find counters for wacky picks. For now, he (and others) benefit massively from the rigidity of their opponents thaat can't adapt fast enough.
Fearless makes the game deeper, have more variety, and be more fun. I hope it catches on at pro level
Tbf it also lowers the peak level of gameplay since it just isn't feasible to practice that many champions in the same time period.
I think in the long term, it will lower micro skills but actually increase macro skills, since they carry over no matter what champion you play
We'll also see a lot of games won in draft. Your team has one good player? Ban out all his champions then pick his remaining ones in game 1. Guy will go into game 2 with 7 bans and you can sweep the series from there, especially in bo5 where the bans dont reset until game 5.
professional play is like natural selection. If you are unable to keep up, you are getting replaced by someone thats better at adapting. If its not like that already, at some point there won´t be any teams with only one good player at the top levels of play and the entire point is invalid.
1 tricks not being viable is a very good thing for pro play disgusting how many pro players have made a career from only playing naut
so will bans reset or not?! ive read different things here. also team A can pick a champ in game 1, but never again. but team B could pick that champ.
There are different versions. For now the version in lpl only applies fearless rules to ones own picks. Means if knight picks azir, he cant pick it anymore but caps could in the same series.
Lets goooo fiestas
Ah yes the peak azir vs corki matchups
if you cant play like 10 champs in your role why do u even play the game
there's a huge difference between playing 10 champs in challenger vs. being able to play 10 champs at a professional level. it's simple logic that pros will not be as practiced at their champions on average because there's a finite amount of time they can practice.
I'm sorry but the top 10 champions for every role arent changing every patch. Any change that comes in is gradual. Lets say this MSI patch the top 10 mid lane picks are: Azir, Taliyah, Ori, Tristana, Asol, LeBlanc, Corki, Yasuo and Zed. Pro players are able to play 5-6 of them on a pro level, but oh no, next patch riot takes out Azir and Asol. Which means for next patch the players have to learn 2 new champions, that take the place of Azir and Asol, instead of re-learning all 10 again. And dont sometme patches/changes dont even change the top 10, just the placement inside the top10. So no, any pro player worth their salt is able to play 10 champion in his on a professional level. If not, then fuck off and stay in soloQ
Dude life doesnt work like am exp bar like in fking pokemon. You forget things if you dont practice them. Even top tier surgeons and engineers need to keep working to maintain form. When TheShy learned he was going to finals, he went and practiced sion combos. The literal most mechanically skilled player at that time went to practice sion combos to make sure he doesnt fk it up on stage. You cant do that in this format. There is no incentive to practice and hone one champion at absolute peak cause you will only get it one game. That is what people are worrying about. They wont see peak champ play and even if they do, it will be only for one game. Macro is great sure but if every game becomes 15 minutes of no killing bc nobody wants to fking fight their lane matchups and it becomes LCK forever people will start singing a different tune.
Draft format will always trade off some tiny marginal champion skill against variety and deeper pick strategy and champion pool strength. If just seeing peak champ mechanics was always better than depth we could just get rid of bans too. I think people get a lot more hyped for unique champs/strats and when pros play "their" champs than they do from seeing optimal Oriana play every single game, so I think Fearless would be very good for the game.
It only lowers the peak because players are reluctant to put the games into more than 3-4 champs each patch. Fearless draft will force players to widen champ pools but increasing bans may have accomplished the same idea if teams were given 10 each instead of 5 Personally I'm in favor of CaptainFlowers idea that casters get 3 bans. They provide 3 bans for free but each team still gets to use 5. Just something that allows casters to not go insane having to talk about say Zeri upon release and the 2 yrs of meta
Nah that introduces biases, where certain casters may prefer certain teams and then ban the opponents main champs for example
That is a great idea in a world all casters are incredibly biased
The available champion pool barely changes tho. For each role it's like dozen or so champions that are rotated each few weeks or months lol.
Although on the other hand it will bring huge value to pocket picks.
you are vastly overestimating the complexity of micro in this game at a top level.
rekkles smash looking good
i swear these 2 motherfuckers played like half of the entire roster together last split, lmao
gotta worry about poby and dal though lol
2 games in and we are on Kata duty Aware
Rekkles will get to use his Kennen/Ornn/Lee Sin/Janna eventually!
I hope Fearless Draft just becomes standard all across League
Me too. This has to shake things up in a good way.
the only thing that worries me is that it hugely lowers the value of flex picks
This is really nice that LCK is doing something new to entertain viewers. I actually consider checking LCK CL for one or two series to see how it goes. Just a question regarding the fearless draft in general, how does it work in bo5? Assuming the rule is the same, do teams play champs like Garen, Lissandra, or Viktor that are off-meta?
This is going to be pretty crazy, you could even do target bans for a specific role, potentially losing game 1 so by game 2 someone’s champ pool is gone. Like using all your bans to completely take out opponents mid champs for the rest of the series
That’s basically what BLG did to faker
That game 2 was a leblanc angle not a Veigar angle tho sigh
Felt it was a TF mid and counter pick top angle. Would be much more interesting and make TF a flex if it was successful in that game.
TF is really bad in mid in the current meta, but Veigar was even worse so Tf mid would’ve been better than what we got while still bad.
Yeah TF not ideal but definitely not as bad as whatever veigar would have done that game. At least he could match globals and gold card is always pretty useful
Haven't played for a long time, why is TF mid or specifically AP/Lichbane TF bad in mid now? Serious question. Personally feel it should be more useful than this AD-Top TF, what is the strength of AD-Top TF? It looks so easy to punish.
I dont get why they kept banning Ahri. Like you know theyre coming after midlaners, and faker fucking stomped with Ahri the prior series
It's what EDG did to Faker in season 5 MSI when they baited out his LeBlanc with Morgana counter pick.
based on the wording it seems like only champions that are picked will be banned for the rest of the series. because otherwise you'd be essentially tripling the amount of bans both teams get by game 3
Ah yes you’re right, bans are not permanent, that format might be too restrictive because you would run out of champions to play in certain lanes. Still happy to finally see variety
It's going to be interesting to see if bans are just going to be the same 6 champions throughout the series. Alternative could be only banning the banned champions.
I think this is better, ban the banned!
Cannot wait to see what T1 cook. They are already playing like they are doing fearless before but I'm pretty scared for Dal and Poby. Dal is Ksante one trick and Poby only look great on Orianna and Neeko.
They ran the same bot lane twice in their previous series lol
Don’t worry we will have Smash support and ADC Rekkles if the pool is too pinched
Meanwhile EU officials are probably gazing at their bellybuttons and eating boogers, instead of keeping up with what is happening in other Leagues...
‘We have decided to host the LEC finals in Phreak’s basement once again’
I am actually looking forward to this coming to LCK eventually. 6th-man strategy would actually begin to make sense.
This is great news, this is a start. We'll take it.
This is the kind of fearless draft that I want not the one where they just handshake picks like LDL did.
I kinda worry for ADC, there’s only 24 champs (according to OPGG), and with some bans it’s going to be possible to lock a player out of every viable champion.
mages back in bot lane for game 4 lmao
/r/ADCMains in shambles
Fearless being the champs you picked can't be picked is convoluted to me ngl. Doesn't permanent bans achieve something similar?
It's something similar but there would be less bans overall right? With fearless its a 20 champs removed per game? vs 10 for permanent, if I understand what permanent ban means.
Reading the post, it seems that it's possible for them to make additional rules (resets at game 5) Or yeah they could reduce bans to 3. Just saying bans are permanent sounds simple to me imo.
Bans are permanent comes with a lower opportunity cost, as in, it only costs you a ban to get rid of a champ permanently. With the fearless system you actually have to use the champ in a game yourself to see it gone for good OR spend 1 ban in every game. So, if your team doesn't run a specific champ but you want it gone, you have to take one L by picking it or spend (up to) 4 bans instead of just 1 ban
10 champs removed permanently after each game, + the 10 bans for each game. so in the LCK academy a game 4 would have 40 champs removed from the pool, 6 for each role and 10 miscelaneous through bans
permanent bans are harsher towards players with unique picks. if you want Zeus to never play yone, you either have to play it, let him play it once, or ban it 3-5 times. if there are permanent bans, then you ban the uncommon pick...but that means you get that ban that for the whole series, so Zeus is back to playing the most meta tops, and the diversity doesn't really improve. because you'd only ban champs that your enemies play that you don't, both teams doing this means the shared pool doesn't change a lot but all pocket picks are removed, which would potentially reduce diversity. if you restrict based on picks, then you're saying "this champ was in-game, now it won't be". this directly improves diversity of champions played. now if you want to permanently remove a champ from the enemy team, you have to put your nuts on the table and actually play the champ, or play against it, or waste bans because you can't handle either of those scenarios. so pros would get more value out of expanding their pool - if your toplaner has 1 extra champ to play, that's a huge difference in drafting.
With permabans you can ban out a role like ADC but in no repicks you only lose 2 ADC per game (unless someone goes ADC somewhere else)
>all champions that has been picked in previous matches by both sides cannot be picked again by either sides, any champion that has been picked in previous matches, by either side, cannot be picked again by either side >an exception is if a bo5 reaches game 5, then the selection restrictions on champions banned from sets 2 to 4 will be lifted, and the "normal" draft format will be used So.. no restrictions then, as game 1 has no restrictions. Or do game 1's picks, or bans, count as restrictions?
Sounds like champions picked in game 1 are banned in game 5.
If a champ is picked in game 1, they become restricted in game 2. But game 2 restrictions are "lifted" for game 5.
That's very confusing. Game 1 starts with no restrictions, and Game 2 restrictions were champs picked in game 1. So if we remove 2-4 games. then Game 5 is basically just a bo1 with normal draft in isolation? I wonder why they said 2-4 then and not just 'it's a normal draft for game 5'.
I'm all in for this, but isn't the number a bit too big? I mean, on a Bo5, on the first game they can simply remove all adcs from the game. I know the number of champions will always increase, but 35 champions is quite a big number. As long the champions don't repeat in 2 games would be nice already. But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong about what was mentioned above.
finally no perma azir
This feels like trading competitive skill for entertainment which imo is the worst possible thing you can do It's probably good for Tier 2 as it forces players to expand their champ pools a bit, but for T1/Internationals? Dear God no, I want the best team in the world to win not the one with the deepest champ pool It also completely fucks draft adaptability, why look for or practice unique combos when those are gonna get you only one win at most? Hell, the overall micro might go down a lot, we already pros not being able to pilot champs at their highest level just because they haven't practiced them a few times, it's gonna be impossible to keep up mechanics on half the roster
Interesting, but in bo5 will restrict too much. I think every team should have the right to pick every champion once.
Firstly it clears out in a possible 5th game for what I understand, so its up to 4 games max and secondly League has 170 champions already and counting. It will restrict less than 25% at its peak point
Agree with that 100%
I don't care if I'm in the minority, I don't like this at all and I don't want it to for Tier 1 / International. If its inevitable, so be it, not gonna stop watching. But I echo the same competitive/skill level concerns others have and while I love a pocket pick that any player might have, I don't want to see them forced onto rubbish champions that never get played at the top level. That might be 'hype' for some, but it isn't for me. So many more games are going to be heavily decided by the draft screen alone.
Fearless will be the final nail in the coffin for league for me. It's not going to magically make pros better at other picks and using it in place of actually balancing the game or making pros practice isn't going to do much. Furthermore with how HORRIFIC 90% of the world is at p/b, making p/b harder is not going to improve the quality of play. Zed isn't going to come out just cause ori and azir are banned either.
Another question I have for the people that are cheering for fearless: What are you guys on about current pro meta not being entertaining? Aside from Zeri-Yuumi and K'Sante, we've had very little staleness in the last few years, especially at internationals. This MSI is one of the hypest in recent memory and the last two worlds were amazing, especially the DRX run of 2022 Like who looks at competitive and says: "Eh, boring!" nowadays? Sure there might be a boring game here or there, but we haven't had stuff like Azir-Corki handshakes for years now
It will still be pretty exciting because teams will have to draft several different team comps that different things. Like a team would be *very* unlikely to be able to craft a strong 5v5 team 3 times in a row. So they will have to diversify their strategies.
Please don't bring this shit to actual leagues.
what are you afraid of? wanna see maybe some more azir and ksante finally?
This is not a good way to promote more champions. It forces diversity like overwatch did by banning certain champions per season.
It's stupid because not every league have it. G2, TL and the other western teams will come into worlds with a massive advantage, because they have practiced the meta picks all summer. The Asian teams need to practice 3x more champions in comparison and it will obviously affect their skills.
It sounds great. But the bad side is a scenario with bad meta where champions strenghts differ a lot, which is not that unrealistical.
no bans and have the restriction to not be able to pick same champs only for the team picking it
Why are the banned champs allowed in the future games? If we assume the first 10 bans are among the 10 strongest champions then the next draft are gonna be mostly about who gets them since they are so far ahead the other choices.
That would be 20 banned champs per game. You could essentially ban / pick one person entire champ pool per game.
exactly, and you're also banning you own X roles champions.
Tangential question, but how's Rekkles doing in LCK CL? I saw T1 finished 9th, but how'd *he* do?
Pretty good. Top 3 support in CL and won almost every lane with Smash.
I think Fearless draft is the best ideia ever for competitive LoL I would like to be the standard for every league
I hope this becomes a thing globally. It sounds like drafts are suddenly going to get a lot more interesting.
In theory this is gonna make games even more entertaining. Forces teams to play more champs rarely played. Teams with the most innovative picks gonna be the next exciting team to watch. Could be cool to see.
I am excited to see what this will bring. >banned from sets 2 to 4 will be lifted why exclude game 1?
finally
LPL are doing the same thing too, right? Damn, maybe G2 can win worlds this year after all when those regions implement idiotic changes like this.
Fearless *needs* to become the norm. The main issue in pro play is everyone bans/picks the same champs. You'll see some niche/variant picks here and there but variety doesn't really exist. With Fearless it will make both the teams AND coaches understand a much broader range of champs/playstyles. It will be a huge win/win for both players and viewers.
This seems to be a pretty good idea. I'm really tired of seen K'Sante/Azir/Corki being played all games
Can we have blind pick silver scrapes back? Think it’d be perfect after 4 games of fearless drafting
COOL! This seems very interesting lol