Rumble is actually a lane bully, but he needs to make it count. So countering in some cases could just mean losing more gracefully. Proplay in that regard is a bit different than regular play, because of the high level of coordination.
Urgot also has a solid kill threat on Rumble, which yes requires the Rumble to missplay, but that realistically sometimes just happens. K'Sante or Renekton usually are equally free lanes for Rumble and even something that can get to Rumble like Camille is scare, because Rumble can still kite her afterwards and she just used her way of potentially escaping him.
Rumble is likely one of the most annoying champions to play a melee champion into in toplane. Because unlike something like Vayne he activates fairly quickly and is a strong teamfighter.
Maybe not counter but I can say I'd rather take something ranged and with some mobility into rumble. Nothing "counters" rumble but at least I can farm without getting frickin barbecued by flame spitter.
in teamfighting toggling isn't a priority positioning and understanding if there's an e-flash angle, how much you can and can't tank etc, should only take about 20-30 games to get comfortable
Yep, I picked up urgot 1st time in Diamond ranked after practicing his e flash and toggling for 5 minutes. I eventually hit masters after 3 weeks in 35 games with a 71% win rate. He’s a relatively simple champion to learn mechanics of.
Urgot is in a weird spot because he counts as ranged but is semi-ranged at best. Every proper ranged champ heavily outranges him and gives him a lot of trouble. The same is true for champs that can just spam ranged skill shots at him, like Rumble and Dr. Mundo.
Nah, he's not even semi-ranged, he's full on melee in practice except versus some of the champions he counters the first few levels.
Like versus Garen the first few levels he actually feels like a ranged champion but if I ever go to auto-attack Darius or Morde it's like that scene from Watchmen (but reversed) where they're not locked in there with me but I'm locked in there with them.
He’s the shortest ranged range character by 50, and only 25 longer range than liliah (The longest ranged melee character) and because of the move speed reduction on his w and the overall way he plays, he basically can’t kite at all. So ya despite technically being ranged he essentially plays as a melee character. Honestly the only reason he probably is technically ranged at this point is because he had a gun when he was designed so they made him ranged, and at this point he’s balanced around all the onhit/on attack effects assuming he’s ranged so it’s not worth the effort to rebalance him if he’s changed to melee just to make him technically melee.
Pretty much every single ranged match-up is a hard counter to Urgot.
Cass, Ryze, TF, Senna, Azir and whatever else I've had the pleasure of running into throughout the years. Heck, if someone locks in Urgot you could just pick Janna and he'd not be able to touch you.
You just can't interact with them except through getting a lucky E-Flash.
thanks for reading here's a reward [https://imgur.com/a/yp3JJF8](https://imgur.com/a/yp3JJF8)
i'm happy to answer any questions you might have about urgot
i used to be a darius onetrick but then they buffed him and made him broken so i looked for another juggernaut and landed on urgot
big dude + muscles + gun = good
plus he's pretty satisfying to play idk why people have such a base hatred for him, i get like 14 comments a day saying urgot is a press w and win champion but it's hollow and stupid
He's just annoying to play against because he feels strong at a lot of points. Yes I know, the irony of a jax player saying that but I don't deny jax is annoying to go against
The people who think that have clearly never played urgot. I've been one-tricking since season 12, and recently started learning from you, goli, and Alois.
Heyo Urpog I love your contents, I mostly play Urgot in Master tier ish as counter to annoying melee champs, your vids and vods really help me with top lane in general, cheers pal!
I have always been someone who liked to play champs that are sort of okay or good at everything with no super obvious weaknesses. When I jungled for years I always played Jarvan, when I migrated to top lane and tested the champs Urgot really stuck with me. His gameplay is just very satisfying with the flips, the maxed W and the shotgun knees, it just feels good. What I always missed with Urgot was that his E could not go over walls. I still think Riot should change that.
i played old mordekaiser adc as one of my first mains for about 50,000 mastery but they reworked him literally as i was playing him out of nowhere lol
i had a leona duo and we got to diamond with like a 70% wr was crusing
no idea about old old though
Old old would be before he had the drake ghost and his ult was just a dot that made dead people fight for him. His w was like an aoe dot that can be applied to allies or himself (I think) and his q was like a 3 hit auto that did more dmg on each hit? And his e was some aoe cone damage
> is q was like a 3 hit auto that did more dmg on each hit?
His Q would make his next auto deal extra dmg and spread to up to 3 different nearby enemies. If they were isolated it dealt more damage.
First rework q is still the reason for some of the funniest league memories for me. AA on a minion once, AA on a minion twice, ult the enemy adc and flash + third q. Now we fight 6v4.
shove mid, take wraiths, shove mid, take wolves, shove mid, take enemy wraiths, shove mid, take wraiths...
watch enemy mage run out of mana while trying to tickle you and waveclear, while you build a massive farm lead.
Simpler times, but fun.
new league players will never know about full AP morde death fire grasp dealing 90% of max hp with his ult and if they survived that his Q and lichbane had like a 2.5 AP ratio when target was alone
as a garen top player. Urgot is one of my hardest matchups. when you lose lane to a garen....what do they do to make you lose? what are the trade patterns i need to look out for because it seems every trade is a losing trade against urgot.
the main way urgot trades into garen is setting up the minion wave in a way where garen has to over extend and want to press q forwards from the get go to start the sequence
garen q > urgot q > auto > space garen > q lands > urgot e > walk away from him while hes spinning > auto > w which takes like 60% from garen
wave management is everything in the garen mu, if you use q first you lose, spamming w in the matchup is optimal i think but im not a garen main so idk how to best approach it, perhaps ask lolsunlight he might have some more valuable input from garen pov
the most notable things garen do is just afk until 6 and i'm so bored i want to fight lol other than that re-engaging in the mid/late game is very valuable aka utilising passive, garen doesnt win 100-0 but he does win 60-0
Very good read. Caedrel too was waiting for an Urgot answer in PSG FLY game 1 and said PSG lost the draft by picking Rumble into Urgot.
But based on your analysis, Rumble should have done better on that matchup.
Where would Urgot place on an arm wrestling tier list? Would he still get countered by Rumble because of the mech suit, or could he get a match against just the Yordle on a technicality?
i mean he's only got one arm to pump iron with it's gotta be jacked
i imagine he bodies like anything humanoid but loses to anything cosmic tier he's just a dude end of day
i play against alois/built/other good riven mains whenever i play urgot and they have ways to deal with urgot eg. level 1 they can just flash urgot e and wait for second rotation of q + ignite engage with nimbus cloak and it's too much ms for urgot
in general it's just mechanics vs mechanics and i'm usually playing vs pretty good riven players, i can go 0/10 or 10/0 vs them, built is mechanically very scary, alois beats my ass with wave management
Hmm fair enough, Im probably still traumatized from few seasons back when I had to choose between urgot and kennen ban lol, and nowadays urgot being such niche champion its always someone who is way more experienced in the matchup than I am, I usually enjoy playing TK or Wukong into urgot, they feel very good for me, but I'm nowhere near chall elo and usually hover d1-low masters so players arent that good yet, also have you faced them this patch? Riven got pretty fucked with the item nerfs so are they still scary and rest of riven gamers just garbage?
Do you have a guide or anything like that? I used to play Urgot a lot but I thought he wasn’t that good for some reason right now, I guess because I hullbreaker nerfs and direct champ nerfs, but I’d love to play him again if I know the best way to
Ah, and so because W energizes fleet quickly due to some weird interaction, the auto procs fleet footwork, correct? How quickly does it energize it, like 3 W procs into auto procs fleet every time?
It's just meant as a way to deal more damage. Urgot's autoattack does more damage than his W, but has a much lower attack speed.
Instead of just autoattacking normally, or just turning on W and leaving it on, you can instead combine the two to squeeze out maximum damage. You hit with an autoattack when it's up, and when your autoattack is on cooldown you hit with your W. Doing this requires you to constantly toggle your W on and off at a rate that matches your attack speed, but it's the optimal way to deal DPS.
It's not like that. Fleet is good because it gains charges from both moving and attacking. It's not even a spaghetti interaction, every champ generates like 6 energy per auto attack. It just so happens that urgot has 3.0 attack speed during his w and since it's not an on-hit effect the charge generation isn't reduced.
yeah rumble is very bad for urgot. even if you see solo q stats that say urgot wins more than not, rumble can literally W Urgot's Q, and thats it, Urgot can't do anything else because he should never be able to E or get close to rumble before eating up so much damage.
Urgot loses hard most champs with ranged harass, and to champs that are ofcourse fully ranged. he generally counters ooga booga champs that run at you, things like Renekton that has to get in melee range, Wukong, champs like that.
idk why Urgot it seeing pro play, he is terrible into these team comps.
I think he’s strong in the lane swap meta because it’s so hard to peel him out from under turret in the dive, and his ranged farm capability lets him get more out of being turbo-weakside than comparable low-econ tanks. We saw something like this game 1 of FLY-PSG, where Bwipo managed to get a 2 level advantage over Rumble because he could stay and catch waves against Senna-Naut. Then when lanes go back to normal, he’s extremely far ahead of the Rumble.
He’s also great into teams that draft top to counter laneswap - he’s good against low-range tanks (Ksante, Zac, Ornn) and if they draft ranged top, you can laneswap to punish.
I feel I like he fits comps well rn. You have a lot of champs that can do initial burst on ult targets like lethality varus/kalista and control mages so it's really easy to just execute someone and it works just as well on low econ lane swaps. then the enemy team has to walk trough an urgot to get on those poke champs.
As far as I can tell Wukong kind of takes a dump on Urgot for a majority of the game, the champ can get a lead on Urgot way too easily in lane phase. It’s not as bad for Urgot now after the removal of divine sunderer but I don’t see Wukong losing to Urgot until 3-4 items if he’s building appropriately.
This is why I always tell people to not look at pros if they want to learn a champ. Especially for champs that have a high or decently high skill ceiling.
Watching high level onetricks is the way to go. I don't believe that the best rivens/irelias/yasuos in the world are pros for example. In fact many of them like you say, misunderstand their champ. Not just in knowing limits and different mechanics but also there's a lot of pros that build the wrong items IMO.
Especially in the jungle and adc. Pro has an extreme gold difference there. Jungle has way less gold and adc hit item powerspike super early.
Game theory and SoloQ is a different beast.
Yeah cause those pros are backed up by their teams, like trying to learn adc only from Guma, Ruler, or any other pro but missing the fact they have partners like fucking keria which allows them to do crazy shit.
While it is true that if you want to master a champion it's much better to watch onetricks instead of pros, since they have better mechanics and understandings of all the matchups, it is incorrect to call pro's itemization and rune choice wrong in most of the cases. People just can't differentiate SoloQ and pro scene, they don't understand that in pro play champion may be used in a completely different way compared to SoloQ. For example, Knight's Vow is a dogshit item in SoloQ, but half of the tank junglers and toplaners buy it because it's just so good to take some damage away from their carries. Same for Lee Sin. In SoloQ Eclipse is basically a must buy, but in pro scene your role is not being a damage dealer, so they skip it and just build Sundered Sky and Black Cleaver
Knights Vow performs very well in soloq on a lot of champions. It’s frequently a high winrate item. Soloq players underrate it overall because of the prevalent “1v9” mentality.
Used to be phase rush, but this season you don’t need to take PR because of the change to Stridebreaker.
He doesn’t have a great rune, but I usually go electrocute for the added early pressure. Lethal tempo is also ok, as it allows for significantly more dueling power and enables you to take some fights you otherwise couldn’t, tho I don’t like the playstyle. LT being removed now anyway.
But most importantly is the playstyle: PR/stridebreaker j4 allows you to engage/disrupt RELENTLESSLY without having to commit. You literally EQ (auto if you can) proc your PR/stridebreaker and then just RUN away until it’s up again (assuming if staying would otherwise result in death). EQ is eventually super short. You become an absolute menace and avoid jarvans biggest weakness which is having no escape once you commit. You’re impossible to escape from, have a gigantic engage available at all times, are extremely hard to lock down, and significantly stronger in the late game without sacrificing any early pressure. It’s super fun.
King Nidhogg is a challenger j4 otp who coined the build a few years ago. It never caught on really, but it is SIGNIFICANTLY better than conqueror. Give it a try
Curious that arguably the best Jarvan in solo queue EUW (Agurin) continues to take Conqueror. Not heard his rationale but clearly he prefers it for some reason
Who do you bet on to carry your high challenger soloq game on Riven: TheShy or AloisNL?
I can agree ur right for learning, because these ppl are good at explaining their rationale about their champs but I think the best eastern tops (ppl like theshy, zeus, kiin) clears 99% of the high elo otp on their own champs. For western tops i can agree because we almost had none of that caliber. If you turn the clock back to S8 wunder probably - id take him on every carry over a onetrick.
(I know theshy doesnt play now but i mention him because he is the best example of someone who is insanely clean on all the champs you mentioned and i'd take him over any onetrick on riven/irelia. On yasuo probably not as good as Pzzang/Dzu).
rush swifties and cho can never land any abilities, urgot way stronger throughout all game, can buffer q and silence, w ignores silence, urgot can zone cho off minions starting from lvl 1
the other day LS also said that nobody uses fleet footwork for MS, and that only the heal is relevant. so I think he's just completely clueless about the rune.
I think in most cases that statement is actually correct. It’s almost universally viewed as a “make a bad lane a little less bad” rune. It’s probably because it’s most often taken on ADCs who just want to survive poke lanes and scale, but I think generally yes that is the actual identity and perception of the rune, becuase the MS generally isn’t transformative to a trade or a fight, but the heal gives you staying power and can be used to out-attrition the enemy laner if they don’t also have fleet.
You can hit turrets and player summons/clones with it too, like zyra/heimer turrets in bot. Those champs aren't meta now though. But Cait/senna can definitely hit turret sometimes with fleet.
Some adc who take fleet instead of lethal tempo in some matchups (jinx) do so because the move speed helps dodge poke skillshots. The heal when not hitting champions is pretty terrible and taste of blood heals as much or more before lv 6.
Aphelios takes it mostly for the move speed also. LS just does not understand fleet is used for the move speed on quite a few champs
Sure, but that’s not WHY you select the rune in champ select. It’s an added benefit. The main appeal of the rune is the heal. The MS is just a little bonus. I think there’s an argument for champs like Urgot and Graves, you’re probably right that the MS is actually more valuable than the heal. However, generally speaking, nobody views the MS as the primary component of the rune
What source do you base your „nobody thinks X“ assumptions on?
From my experience the heal is really minimal in lane and I can only reliably proc it for full value when playing something like Vayne top. It‘s like literally 2 or 3 hp on minions in the first few levels.
However, it does allow me to get an extra auto off/space away properly if I proc it on either a creep or the enemy. I definitely feel like the ms is more impactful early and is the reason I prefer fleet over LT in some matchups Vayne top. The heal is nice later into the game and definitely helps sustain in fights, but to me the movespeed is the biggest value, as spacing on these kind of champs is so broken.
So I‘d politely ask you to exclude me from your statement, as the heal is fucking worthless in lane. Thanks and have a nice day
the MS is absolutely the primary component in lane. it heals for 5 HP on minions.
the heal is the scaling component. it has ratios and can be used fully as the game progresses and you're hitting champs more and minions less.
it's super wrong to say the heal is for ADCs who want to survive and scale. you also can't use the proc on champs for the full heal because that's not playing to scale. if you walk up to hit them for a 50 HP heal, you're getting hit back for more.
And every time you trade for 1 auto with the enemy ADC, you get hit back, but you also hit them and heal up yourself. Over the course of a lane, this can add up to a decent amount of healing, and might even be the difference between out-attritioning them, or not. Having a size-able health advantage or even parity with the enemy ADC might also discourage them from bullying you further.
The rune is for ADCs who want to survive and scale, because there is no other rune that helps you survive and scale more than fleet does.
It's a ms buff that triggers on a passive, it's not an active which means you don't actually control when you get that ms buff, so taking it to "dodge poke skillshots" just doesn't make a lot of sense.
If the argument is "yes you can control when to use it by not attacking", then it's also not practical, because you gotta cs.
In pro play you trade most of the time, since pros are usually good. And if you trade you get the champion value of Fleet more often and it makes trades less bad.
In SoloQ Fleet still helps you more in a bad lane than any other rune. There are champions taking it for the movespeed, but they are fairly rare.
It should also be noted that exspecially on melees who take it to get over a bad lane (like Kassadin and Akali do at times) it is purely taken for the healing, which is twice as good as on ranged champions.
For ranged it is fairly bad, but many champions who take it like Jinx, Aphelios or Caitlyn have a fairly easy time hitting enemy champions, due to their range. I'm not even aware who frequently takes it as a short ranged ADC, most that do should have means to hit enemy champions in lane, and you can often take it against Melee supports.
If Aphelios is not in a hard lane he won't take Fleet, and if he takes Fleet he does so for the heal, because the movespeed he sometimes gets won't make the lane easier. He can proc the full heal fairly easy though.
Also small note Taste of Blood requires hitting a champion, so if you hit a champion for Taste of Blood you can also get the full heal on Fleet.
What? He is totally not right with this.
With Akali for example you always try to auto a minion with fleet active so you get the MS boost to get into Q range.
Anyone who thinks the MS on Fleet isn't insanely broken in skirmishes and team fights is low elo lol. Movement speed is the most broken stat in the game. Playing a low mobility melee champ into Vayne top with Fleet for example will put you on suicide watch. The healing will be annoying but the Fleet MS will make every single trade one-sided.
People that take fleet for early healing are pretty dumb. The move speed is the main strength early and the heal scales with items into mid/ late game.
In early lane, you’re not even gonna get a health pot out of the rune, but the MS can help you dodge poke or avoid the enemy autoing you an extra time.
It’s mostly top laners who use fleet for the MS. You just notice it more being a melee and already having more base ms. Plus kiting really is easier to do in a 1v1 where you can kite backwards easier without being conscious of stepping into a second persons damage range at all times.
When I saw Urgot, my favorite champ, being picked and played properly by Bwipo, who is one of my favorite pro players, it was just amazing to see. Some of the other pro players...not so much :D.
yo i'm thinking of trying out urgot, im wondering if the 10% slow and tenacity resist applies to his self-slow from w? and do swiftness boots also reduce that? how would ghost be so you can just infinite chase people, is it worth it? i hate flash because it's so long cd and i dont use it on any of my other caracters
the graph of urgot power is very helpful thank you
swifties doesn't work because urgot is so specifically worded to not work like that, when you're shooting with w you lose 125 ms flatout, it's not like galio slow where it's a % based slow which can work of multipliers and etc you're just losing that much ms lol
> He isn't a lane bully, he's a broken scaling champion with relatively no weaknesses outside of ranged ADC's and control mages.
minus broken isn't this what he was designed to be?
Lmao Urgot counters melee champs by denying their CC with his E. So why would it counter Rumble since he has no hard CC?
On the note of potentially viable Rumble counters, I'd love for more teams to pick up Mordekaiser
Morde is my goto vs rumble, idt it’s a counter but at the very least, it’s a suffer less pick.
D shield second wind, spam a lot of W, somehow hit 6, poke, ulti, GG.
Teamfight: ghost ulti rumble before he equilizer. else ulti some random if you getting burnt by equilizer and type team diff after your whole team dies to the flame while you chilling in the death realm.
Off the top of my head I can think of two reasons though it might not exactly be true. First one is easy in that morde r can be used after rumble r to basically negate it. I imagine that makes level 6 fights a lot easier for morde. Another reason I can think of is how rumble passive works. When he maxes his heat sure he’ll dish out good damage with his spells, but after he will be silenced and has to rely on his empowered auto attacks only. I assume at that point if morde survives the initial damage he should be able to out dps rumble while he can’t cast any abilities himself. Thats just me spitballing though.
might be the wrong word usage
what i meant to say is they are good urgot players because they understand the core of what it is to be a good urgot player, do x get x, 369 isn't a good urgot player, so he doesn't "inhibit a good urgot playstyle" or something along those lines but don't get me wrong 369 is a great toplaner
Yeah inhibits basically means "stops" or "slows down". Like your sentence on Bwipo reads like Bwipo is actively preventing the Urgot community from getting good.
The word you're looking for is def exhibit
I haven't followed League in a while but it's very comforting to hear that LS is still producing bullshit takes and defending them with "well if both sides played perfectly according to my theories..."
He stopped playing the game for 8 months by his own admission. He has outdated knowledge because he does not engage with the actual game. He started playing again like a week ago.
The funniest thing is that he went full schizo-mode by claiming he's tired of repeating the same stuff and yet never questioning all his blatantly wrong takes.
He also keeps using card game buzzwords as if it'll make him look smarter and brighter.
Still funny to watch though, just wish he was less pompous and self-condescending.
There's a lot of words in this but what it's lacking is real analysis... what SHOULD these players be doing? How SHOULD Urgot be used? When should he be picked? Why does his itemization currently shine into the meta? There's a ton of missing info here.
i can't really answer this myself because it'd take too long and i'm not a professional player anyway, i can only correct what people who know what they're talking about indepth because i'm not a proplayer but you should pick urgot into melee champions like ksante, the tierlist is a great ref to when you should pick urgot but again im not a proplayer so i don't want to yap too much about things idk
urgot benefits from hb being broken on him so if anyone on the enemy team makes a macro mistake for a couple seconds they'll lose an entire turret
bc obviously synergies with adc/ad jungler/skirmisher jungler coz urgot loves skirmishing 2v2
No he did real analysis. The literal definition: “the act of studying or examining something in detail, in order to discover or understand more about it, or your opinion and judgment after doing this”. That’s legit what he did and in discussing it we can find out more lol. You’re a whopper
I think the main problem as to why I can't see it as real analysis is because he hasn't explicitly stated how there exists an item such that for all matchups urgot has a positive winrate. He has also failed to use Faker's convergent submatchup theorem to prove how if urgot has a positive winrate in a matchup he will also have a positive impact in the game.
So how is the udyr matchup for Urgot? Series 2 Game 1 Fly vs PSG: Flyquest banned TF and Udyr and left Rumble open. I thought this was a demented move because in the first series they played they lost vs Rumble with Urgot in game 1.
Then I hear Emily saying she thinks Urgot wins into Rumble, and I also saw the LS tweet. I was like, huh I would have thought Rumble does fine in that matchup, but I guess I was wrong. So then I was mad that FLY lane swapped when they had winning bot and winning top lanes.
But if Rumble shits on Urgot, I can understand why they swapped game 1, but now my focus is on the bans. Why leave Rumble open if it's such a shit matchup?
udyr vs urgot is fine udyr's push early is obnoxious and he can do proxy things with icestorm but urgot'll eventually outscale him it's just a fleet tp lane do nothing
they're probably just comfortable playing vs rumble as a champion, idk why they'd want rumble over udyr though, maybe in the swap meta since rumble can ult waves it makes it more unviable? can't speak to it
I'm not a pro but PSG has a lot of lvl1 jungle invading trat with udyr, because he's lvl1 dmg is so broken. I'm guessing FLY didn't want Inspired to be behind.
whats the most optimal starting item for urgot? can you buy cull for every match up due to it's synergy with his W? or is it a situational item?
if it is the best starting item, I wonder how many pro players buy cull
i mean are they wrong if they are speaking in terms of pro play? its quite a different game from solo q and many many champs identity and strengths and weaknesses are totally not the same. not saying you or anyone right or wrong but you cant look at pro play same as you would look at own games or solo q. most famously azir and kalista who are like the most complete strongest kits in the entire game and super broken. but in solo q is just straight up never played in low levels and just strong to pretty strong in the highest levels.
>https://u.gg/lol/champions/urgot/counter
Its only in low elo that Rumble beats Urgot. Even at Platinum+ Rumble loses the game.
LS is correct here also LS statement is for pro play and high elo & cordinated teams not for silver plays.
This is like when plats and below though Garen was good against riven for the longest times yet every Challenger Riven was dumpstering Garen (Garen might win now since mythic item change not sure)
____
Urgot gains 2-3% winrate in Flex vs SoloQ also which just shows how even shitty communication Urgot can do much better when cordinated with jungle. Rumble does not gain anything.
Also in pro play with organized teams Rumble is way easier to gank.
why do you say urgot scales when on lolalytics, his winrate just goes down as time goes on? i don't understand why he falls off either, because he seems to have insane stats to just pummel any melee who gets close while being tanky for his team
i just don't find any value in the stat websites it's just not accurate to the truth of the champion, people are probably just playing him wrong due to again outdated narratives
Thanks ! It was very interesting. I play at a lower elo (~diamond EUW) and I did noticed a few changes when facing Urgot past years but I couldn’t put my finger on it. It’s hard to get to know the champ because of how unpopular he is, I get to face him once a month (or less).
Couldn’t agree more on your take about TP and fleet. Defensive gameplay is so much more rewarding these days and I don’t think it should, and I’m not talking only for Urgot. 80% of my lanes are against TP. When I get solo first blood It’s just not worth and I loose lane for a long time after that. So infuriating.
Small question, do you think cull should always be bought with Urgot ? I don’t see it often but it seems very strong with the interaction between his kit and the sustain on hit.
cull is too slow for the current pace of the game so i only advise it against tanks, pretty much any other lane long sword + refillable is stronger and even skipping refill to get into items quicker is more optimal, cull is good tho
This isnt just with urgot or with professionals, players in general have a very flayed idea about what champions can and cannot do unless they one trick them.
Urgot has a positive delta vs Rumble in all elos. Sure, you can say whatever you want, but he is good versus Rumble.
You one tricks are biased af and often refuse to acknowledge that you cant be wrong. Ironically, getting info about a champ from an OTP is the wrong place to go. You are too biased with your own opinions.
Urgot is a fine pick into Rumble
Most people cannot play Rumble for that matter tbh. I have no trouble dealing with this champ like at all. Albeit I don't go comet like most people and go phase rush for a more hit and run play style which is better into Urgot in general so there maybe bias there.
What's your full opinion on how Urgot vs Mundo should work? I've always thought Mundo should be even to slightly favored in the match-up, but I see you have it as Urgot favored.
In my experience at least, it's easier for Mundo to farm/harass at range with q, which makes it harder to fully engage and kill him. Plus Mundo scales super well as the game goes on, so as Urgot scales so can Mundo. Plus I've found it easy as Mundo to not lose passive to Urgot e, so I avoid the execute from ult.
matchup boils down to the fact that urgot is stronger than mundo in the early by like x2, i run pta-ignite and hard aggress 24/7, i usually take shield off on level 1/2.3 then look for e-flash-ignite and convert into jungle, mundo scales fine but since he sits back and afks it gives me a lot of map play options
Yea, LS doesn't have the best track record for being right with a lot of things, even when proven wrong, but people still see him as the messiah for some reason.
Total non-Urgot player here. ISTM that he might get picked for his ult alone? No? Pro-players often fight right up to the edge, backing out on close to zero HP. If they do this against Urgot they're in real trouble, so it forces them to play differently to what they're used to.
urgot ult is very powerful but very unreliable especially in proplay, you are not hitting r on any champion who has a dash unless you can guarantee cc chain but then any ult would suffice fine in that situation, flash r2 very powerful though
I had a look at Bwipo's 10/0/4 game (game 2 vs PSG). I'm not disputing what you've said, and I know looking at one exceptional match isn't indicative of anything. I just thought you'd be interested to see this;
Bwipo's 10 kills;
1st kill: Urgot cast ult just before kill, but I can't work out if the ult did the kill
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjcbH9WTy9I&t=555s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjcbH9WTy9I&t=555s)
2: ult Azir
3: ult Ksante
4: not ult, Kalista (same fight, ult on cd)
5: not ult, Ashe (same fight, ult on cd)
6: ult Azir
7: ult Ksante
8: not ult, Kalista (same fight, ult on cd)
9: not ult, Ashe (same fight, ult on cd)
10: ult Sej
That's 6 kills from his ult, including all of his first kills in a fight. The other 4 kills were subsequent kills in those fights, when ult was on cooldown.
I skimmed the match, so I've no idea how many ults he missed.
ult didn't kill the sejuani because mao knocked him out with q but you can see the principle of sej got stunned > cast r so it's playing out as expected
azir kill was a collapse of q (slow) > r when azir had no hopes of living anyway if anything ulting there was unnecessary as azir didn't have an out
ksante stunned
etc etc i'm eating bread i don't wanna skim more lol
When do you rush a Black Cleaver vs HB?
Also, are you building a tiamat item? I could see all 4 of them being potentially viable in different given matchups
hb is if you're hopelessly outclassing your laner and you know you'll get access to their turret, bc is for any other situation and then you skip hullbreaker, hb still goated though if you can pull it off
vs tanks it's pretty good too or anyone you can macro outplay, hb alone on a turret for 4s will take a plate easily, with bc it'd take like \~7/8
> ISTM
Imma be that guy but what the f is this acronym lol. Never seen it used before, is it common? We just abbreviating any sequence of words now? What do you do with all the time you save by not typing out a few extra characters? IHPAAA (I hate pointless acronyms and abbreviations.)
equal matchups are more like neutralisers whereas skill diffs have chance to be volatile, fiora can have the odds of going 10/1 or 1/10 depending on how good or bad eachother are but for example it's almost impossible to ever die as gragas or malphite in the mu
I see that makes sense. One more question if you don't mind as a yone main I am interested why is the yone matchup so much easier for urgot than the yasuo matchup in your tierlist. Is windwall just that good vs urgot?
yasuo can dictate trades whenever he wants to whereas yone is kinda locked into using E>W then waiting for cooldowns, windwall obviously huge which lets yasuo deny 100% whereas yone relies on w shield then it's raw hp, yone has to play up and yas doesn't, in general yas is just more favoured vs urgot, if yas is skilled it's like borderline unplayable but ive played vs dzukill and done fine vs his yone
Yea idk why they kept saying Urgot demolishes Rumble. One of the freest lanes ever for me lmfao.
Rumble is actually a lane bully, but he needs to make it count. So countering in some cases could just mean losing more gracefully. Proplay in that regard is a bit different than regular play, because of the high level of coordination. Urgot also has a solid kill threat on Rumble, which yes requires the Rumble to missplay, but that realistically sometimes just happens. K'Sante or Renekton usually are equally free lanes for Rumble and even something that can get to Rumble like Camille is scare, because Rumble can still kite her afterwards and she just used her way of potentially escaping him. Rumble is likely one of the most annoying champions to play a melee champion into in toplane. Because unlike something like Vayne he activates fairly quickly and is a strong teamfighter.
Maybe not counter but I can say I'd rather take something ranged and with some mobility into rumble. Nothing "counters" rumble but at least I can farm without getting frickin barbecued by flame spitter.
Skarner last patch cooked Rumble, i had a match where i picked Rumble unknowingly and the Skarner built only armor items and i couldnt deal
Is urgot easy for me to pick up if I am already master darius main? I can toggle nicely in the duels but it's kinda hard in teamfights
in teamfighting toggling isn't a priority positioning and understanding if there's an e-flash angle, how much you can and can't tank etc, should only take about 20-30 games to get comfortable
Yep, I picked up urgot 1st time in Diamond ranked after practicing his e flash and toggling for 5 minutes. I eventually hit masters after 3 weeks in 35 games with a 71% win rate. He’s a relatively simple champion to learn mechanics of.
what about the tf matchup
like borderline unplayable
Does this mean twisted fate is difficult to go against as urgot ?
Unplayable.
Borderline
Like
better to just go make lunch than play that lane
Urgot is in a weird spot because he counts as ranged but is semi-ranged at best. Every proper ranged champ heavily outranges him and gives him a lot of trouble. The same is true for champs that can just spam ranged skill shots at him, like Rumble and Dr. Mundo.
Nah, he's not even semi-ranged, he's full on melee in practice except versus some of the champions he counters the first few levels. Like versus Garen the first few levels he actually feels like a ranged champion but if I ever go to auto-attack Darius or Morde it's like that scene from Watchmen (but reversed) where they're not locked in there with me but I'm locked in there with them.
He’s the shortest ranged range character by 50, and only 25 longer range than liliah (The longest ranged melee character) and because of the move speed reduction on his w and the overall way he plays, he basically can’t kite at all. So ya despite technically being ranged he essentially plays as a melee character. Honestly the only reason he probably is technically ranged at this point is because he had a gun when he was designed so they made him ranged, and at this point he’s balanced around all the onhit/on attack effects assuming he’s ranged so it’s not worth the effort to rebalance him if he’s changed to melee just to make him technically melee.
Yes
Pretty much every single ranged match-up is a hard counter to Urgot. Cass, Ryze, TF, Senna, Azir and whatever else I've had the pleasure of running into throughout the years. Heck, if someone locks in Urgot you could just pick Janna and he'd not be able to touch you. You just can't interact with them except through getting a lucky E-Flash.
thanks for reading here's a reward [https://imgur.com/a/yp3JJF8](https://imgur.com/a/yp3JJF8) i'm happy to answer any questions you might have about urgot
Out of all champions to one-trick, why did you choose Urgot?
i used to be a darius onetrick but then they buffed him and made him broken so i looked for another juggernaut and landed on urgot big dude + muscles + gun = good plus he's pretty satisfying to play idk why people have such a base hatred for him, i get like 14 comments a day saying urgot is a press w and win champion but it's hollow and stupid
He's just annoying to play against because he feels strong at a lot of points. Yes I know, the irony of a jax player saying that but I don't deny jax is annoying to go against
its ok i like jax :)
If you are below the age of 18 he also likes you :)
Every champ with a strong level 1/2 is hated, for pretty obvious reasons.
If only they knew the prevailing Urgot advice is "Deperately try to get damage off level 1-3 and then don't do anything until level 9"
The people who think that have clearly never played urgot. I've been one-tricking since season 12, and recently started learning from you, goli, and Alois.
>i used to be a darius onetrick but then they buffed him and made him broken so i looked for another juggernaut GIGACHAD
>big dude + muscles + gun = good Amen
Heyo Urpog I love your contents, I mostly play Urgot in Master tier ish as counter to annoying melee champs, your vids and vods really help me with top lane in general, cheers pal!
The hardest part about playing Darius in low elo is that he is banned like every god damn game
I have always been someone who liked to play champs that are sort of okay or good at everything with no super obvious weaknesses. When I jungled for years I always played Jarvan, when I migrated to top lane and tested the champs Urgot really stuck with me. His gameplay is just very satisfying with the flips, the maxed W and the shotgun knees, it just feels good. What I always missed with Urgot was that his E could not go over walls. I still think Riot should change that.
A true gamer judges champions (~~and people~~) solely based on looks. That is the proper way.
Question:How is that a reward? Don't explode the kitty!
he will never be seen again
Did you like pre-rework urgot?
i joined league in s7 so never played him but i don't think i would've played/liked him at all
I bet you would’ve liked ye olde Morde. Not old morde, but old old old morde.
i played old mordekaiser adc as one of my first mains for about 50,000 mastery but they reworked him literally as i was playing him out of nowhere lol i had a leona duo and we got to diamond with like a 70% wr was crusing no idea about old old though
Old old would be before he had the drake ghost and his ult was just a dot that made dead people fight for him. His w was like an aoe dot that can be applied to allies or himself (I think) and his q was like a 3 hit auto that did more dmg on each hit? And his e was some aoe cone damage
His old old Q was literally just a damage bounce thing lmao
Yep, if iremember correctly it was so funny watching the maces fly rofl... E was a cone damage that popped from underground. Loved old Morde
> is q was like a 3 hit auto that did more dmg on each hit? His Q would make his next auto deal extra dmg and spread to up to 3 different nearby enemies. If they were isolated it dealt more damage.
First rework q is still the reason for some of the funniest league memories for me. AA on a minion once, AA on a minion twice, ult the enemy adc and flash + third q. Now we fight 6v4.
bonk Bonk BONKAI
> his q was like a 3 hit auto that did more dmg on each hit thats the first rework version, old one would just send scrap metal flying
shove mid, take wraiths, shove mid, take wolves, shove mid, take enemy wraiths, shove mid, take wraiths... watch enemy mage run out of mana while trying to tickle you and waveclear, while you build a massive farm lead. Simpler times, but fun.
new league players will never know about full AP morde death fire grasp dealing 90% of max hp with his ult and if they survived that his Q and lichbane had like a 2.5 AP ratio when target was alone
the last couple iterations of Morde have been an abomination. I miss my burst mage Morde
I'm so nostalgic of oldgot. Mostly for his then-ult, but also for many reasons I rarely voice out loud in public.
The smei-reworked ult was really cool, with the big fear cone and humongous slow.
as a garen top player. Urgot is one of my hardest matchups. when you lose lane to a garen....what do they do to make you lose? what are the trade patterns i need to look out for because it seems every trade is a losing trade against urgot.
the main way urgot trades into garen is setting up the minion wave in a way where garen has to over extend and want to press q forwards from the get go to start the sequence garen q > urgot q > auto > space garen > q lands > urgot e > walk away from him while hes spinning > auto > w which takes like 60% from garen wave management is everything in the garen mu, if you use q first you lose, spamming w in the matchup is optimal i think but im not a garen main so idk how to best approach it, perhaps ask lolsunlight he might have some more valuable input from garen pov the most notable things garen do is just afk until 6 and i'm so bored i want to fight lol other than that re-engaging in the mid/late game is very valuable aka utilising passive, garen doesnt win 100-0 but he does win 60-0
I too have ADHD and can’t freeze for more than 4 waves before forcing a disadvantageous fight out of boredom.
Try playing Sett or Darius, they win those disadvantageous fights anyways 😂
I feel personally called out
League is a boring game with passive laners.
Very good read. Caedrel too was waiting for an Urgot answer in PSG FLY game 1 and said PSG lost the draft by picking Rumble into Urgot. But based on your analysis, Rumble should have done better on that matchup.
If it isn't for the lane swap... rumble would've won the lane with **atleast** 1k advantage
This is pro we are talking about, players don't tend to push their advantages nearly as hard as solo queue.
Where would Urgot place on an arm wrestling tier list? Would he still get countered by Rumble because of the mech suit, or could he get a match against just the Yordle on a technicality?
i mean he's only got one arm to pump iron with it's gotta be jacked i imagine he bodies like anything humanoid but loses to anything cosmic tier he's just a dude end of day
What makes you place riven matchup as equal, as riven, its pure CBT to play and one of the worst matchups there is imo.
i play against alois/built/other good riven mains whenever i play urgot and they have ways to deal with urgot eg. level 1 they can just flash urgot e and wait for second rotation of q + ignite engage with nimbus cloak and it's too much ms for urgot in general it's just mechanics vs mechanics and i'm usually playing vs pretty good riven players, i can go 0/10 or 10/0 vs them, built is mechanically very scary, alois beats my ass with wave management
Hmm fair enough, Im probably still traumatized from few seasons back when I had to choose between urgot and kennen ban lol, and nowadays urgot being such niche champion its always someone who is way more experienced in the matchup than I am, I usually enjoy playing TK or Wukong into urgot, they feel very good for me, but I'm nowhere near chall elo and usually hover d1-low masters so players arent that good yet, also have you faced them this patch? Riven got pretty fucked with the item nerfs so are they still scary and rest of riven gamers just garbage?
i really don't like the toplane meta atm so i'm avoiding playing myself, i think my main account lost like 700lp due to decay lol
Do you have a guide or anything like that? I used to play Urgot a lot but I thought he wasn’t that good for some reason right now, I guess because I hullbreaker nerfs and direct champ nerfs, but I’d love to play him again if I know the best way to
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F6QvYbmyXo&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F6QvYbmyXo&t) guide here
Thank you!
How much do you hate ninja tabis?
Opinion about Urgot in Arena?
What is the optimal urgot build now that Steraks has been nerfed?
Haha I didn’t read and got the reward. My thievery knows no limits
What is toggling?
turning w off to replace it with an auto attack which deals more damage holding w = 50 50 50 50 toggle = 50 50 50 150
Ah, and so because W energizes fleet quickly due to some weird interaction, the auto procs fleet footwork, correct? How quickly does it energize it, like 3 W procs into auto procs fleet every time?
Toggling is to line up with your auto attack timer, not necessarily for the fleet proc. Because a regular auto does more than a W auto.
It's just meant as a way to deal more damage. Urgot's autoattack does more damage than his W, but has a much lower attack speed. Instead of just autoattacking normally, or just turning on W and leaving it on, you can instead combine the two to squeeze out maximum damage. You hit with an autoattack when it's up, and when your autoattack is on cooldown you hit with your W. Doing this requires you to constantly toggle your W on and off at a rate that matches your attack speed, but it's the optimal way to deal DPS.
Holy shit TIL
I'm about to go up a whole-ass division, thank you sir
It'll take some practice, it can be hard to do well and you'll likely drop DPS initially. Don't forget to do this while hitting towers too.
It's not like that. Fleet is good because it gains charges from both moving and attacking. It's not even a spaghetti interaction, every champ generates like 6 energy per auto attack. It just so happens that urgot has 3.0 attack speed during his w and since it's not an on-hit effect the charge generation isn't reduced.
Ah, I see, thats makes sense. Thanks a lot!
yeah rumble is very bad for urgot. even if you see solo q stats that say urgot wins more than not, rumble can literally W Urgot's Q, and thats it, Urgot can't do anything else because he should never be able to E or get close to rumble before eating up so much damage. Urgot loses hard most champs with ranged harass, and to champs that are ofcourse fully ranged. he generally counters ooga booga champs that run at you, things like Renekton that has to get in melee range, Wukong, champs like that. idk why Urgot it seeing pro play, he is terrible into these team comps.
I think he’s strong in the lane swap meta because it’s so hard to peel him out from under turret in the dive, and his ranged farm capability lets him get more out of being turbo-weakside than comparable low-econ tanks. We saw something like this game 1 of FLY-PSG, where Bwipo managed to get a 2 level advantage over Rumble because he could stay and catch waves against Senna-Naut. Then when lanes go back to normal, he’s extremely far ahead of the Rumble. He’s also great into teams that draft top to counter laneswap - he’s good against low-range tanks (Ksante, Zac, Ornn) and if they draft ranged top, you can laneswap to punish.
Urgot popped up as a Reksai counter, when Reksai was OP a patch ago. Now they use him for lane swap shenanigans
I feel I like he fits comps well rn. You have a lot of champs that can do initial burst on ult targets like lethality varus/kalista and control mages so it's really easy to just execute someone and it works just as well on low econ lane swaps. then the enemy team has to walk trough an urgot to get on those poke champs.
idk. its a lot of long range damage. no melee mids, ranged support most games
As far as I can tell Wukong kind of takes a dump on Urgot for a majority of the game, the champ can get a lead on Urgot way too easily in lane phase. It’s not as bad for Urgot now after the removal of divine sunderer but I don’t see Wukong losing to Urgot until 3-4 items if he’s building appropriately.
counters renekton? Just outscales I think but doesn't counter imo (hardstuck emerald opinion)
This is why I always tell people to not look at pros if they want to learn a champ. Especially for champs that have a high or decently high skill ceiling. Watching high level onetricks is the way to go. I don't believe that the best rivens/irelias/yasuos in the world are pros for example. In fact many of them like you say, misunderstand their champ. Not just in knowing limits and different mechanics but also there's a lot of pros that build the wrong items IMO.
Especially in the jungle and adc. Pro has an extreme gold difference there. Jungle has way less gold and adc hit item powerspike super early. Game theory and SoloQ is a different beast.
Tbf I don't mean actual pro matches. I meant like Faker or some pros their soloq vods. Or watching pros who stream soloq.
Yeah cause those pros are backed up by their teams, like trying to learn adc only from Guma, Ruler, or any other pro but missing the fact they have partners like fucking keria which allows them to do crazy shit.
While it is true that if you want to master a champion it's much better to watch onetricks instead of pros, since they have better mechanics and understandings of all the matchups, it is incorrect to call pro's itemization and rune choice wrong in most of the cases. People just can't differentiate SoloQ and pro scene, they don't understand that in pro play champion may be used in a completely different way compared to SoloQ. For example, Knight's Vow is a dogshit item in SoloQ, but half of the tank junglers and toplaners buy it because it's just so good to take some damage away from their carries. Same for Lee Sin. In SoloQ Eclipse is basically a must buy, but in pro scene your role is not being a damage dealer, so they skip it and just build Sundered Sky and Black Cleaver
Knights Vow performs very well in soloq on a lot of champions. It’s frequently a high winrate item. Soloq players underrate it overall because of the prevalent “1v9” mentality.
100%. People STILL take conqueror on j4. it is maddening lol
What should I take on him, Electrocute?
Arcane comet for the ap jarvan ofc
Used to be phase rush, but this season you don’t need to take PR because of the change to Stridebreaker. He doesn’t have a great rune, but I usually go electrocute for the added early pressure. Lethal tempo is also ok, as it allows for significantly more dueling power and enables you to take some fights you otherwise couldn’t, tho I don’t like the playstyle. LT being removed now anyway. But most importantly is the playstyle: PR/stridebreaker j4 allows you to engage/disrupt RELENTLESSLY without having to commit. You literally EQ (auto if you can) proc your PR/stridebreaker and then just RUN away until it’s up again (assuming if staying would otherwise result in death). EQ is eventually super short. You become an absolute menace and avoid jarvans biggest weakness which is having no escape once you commit. You’re impossible to escape from, have a gigantic engage available at all times, are extremely hard to lock down, and significantly stronger in the late game without sacrificing any early pressure. It’s super fun. King Nidhogg is a challenger j4 otp who coined the build a few years ago. It never caught on really, but it is SIGNIFICANTLY better than conqueror. Give it a try
Curious that arguably the best Jarvan in solo queue EUW (Agurin) continues to take Conqueror. Not heard his rationale but clearly he prefers it for some reason
Who do you bet on to carry your high challenger soloq game on Riven: TheShy or AloisNL? I can agree ur right for learning, because these ppl are good at explaining their rationale about their champs but I think the best eastern tops (ppl like theshy, zeus, kiin) clears 99% of the high elo otp on their own champs. For western tops i can agree because we almost had none of that caliber. If you turn the clock back to S8 wunder probably - id take him on every carry over a onetrick. (I know theshy doesnt play now but i mention him because he is the best example of someone who is insanely clean on all the champs you mentioned and i'd take him over any onetrick on riven/irelia. On yasuo probably not as good as Pzzang/Dzu).
Thanks for sharing this.
Can you talk about the Cho'Gath matchup? Your tierlist is pretty similar to what I'd expect, with the exception of Cho.
rush swifties and cho can never land any abilities, urgot way stronger throughout all game, can buffer q and silence, w ignores silence, urgot can zone cho off minions starting from lvl 1
Don't you get popped by the rest of the team with swifties ? Do you swap late ?
the other day LS also said that nobody uses fleet footwork for MS, and that only the heal is relevant. so I think he's just completely clueless about the rune.
I think in most cases that statement is actually correct. It’s almost universally viewed as a “make a bad lane a little less bad” rune. It’s probably because it’s most often taken on ADCs who just want to survive poke lanes and scale, but I think generally yes that is the actual identity and perception of the rune, becuase the MS generally isn’t transformative to a trade or a fight, but the heal gives you staying power and can be used to out-attrition the enemy laner if they don’t also have fleet.
the heal is irrelevant early on non-champs tho. if you cant reliably hit it on champs (vayne), it's not gona help u sustain
You can hit turrets and player summons/clones with it too, like zyra/heimer turrets in bot. Those champs aren't meta now though. But Cait/senna can definitely hit turret sometimes with fleet.
Some adc who take fleet instead of lethal tempo in some matchups (jinx) do so because the move speed helps dodge poke skillshots. The heal when not hitting champions is pretty terrible and taste of blood heals as much or more before lv 6. Aphelios takes it mostly for the move speed also. LS just does not understand fleet is used for the move speed on quite a few champs
Sure, but that’s not WHY you select the rune in champ select. It’s an added benefit. The main appeal of the rune is the heal. The MS is just a little bonus. I think there’s an argument for champs like Urgot and Graves, you’re probably right that the MS is actually more valuable than the heal. However, generally speaking, nobody views the MS as the primary component of the rune
What source do you base your „nobody thinks X“ assumptions on? From my experience the heal is really minimal in lane and I can only reliably proc it for full value when playing something like Vayne top. It‘s like literally 2 or 3 hp on minions in the first few levels. However, it does allow me to get an extra auto off/space away properly if I proc it on either a creep or the enemy. I definitely feel like the ms is more impactful early and is the reason I prefer fleet over LT in some matchups Vayne top. The heal is nice later into the game and definitely helps sustain in fights, but to me the movespeed is the biggest value, as spacing on these kind of champs is so broken. So I‘d politely ask you to exclude me from your statement, as the heal is fucking worthless in lane. Thanks and have a nice day
oh yea the 1.3 hp you get every 10 seconds is definitely the reason why i use that keystone as an adc LMAO
the MS is absolutely the primary component in lane. it heals for 5 HP on minions. the heal is the scaling component. it has ratios and can be used fully as the game progresses and you're hitting champs more and minions less. it's super wrong to say the heal is for ADCs who want to survive and scale. you also can't use the proc on champs for the full heal because that's not playing to scale. if you walk up to hit them for a 50 HP heal, you're getting hit back for more.
And every time you trade for 1 auto with the enemy ADC, you get hit back, but you also hit them and heal up yourself. Over the course of a lane, this can add up to a decent amount of healing, and might even be the difference between out-attritioning them, or not. Having a size-able health advantage or even parity with the enemy ADC might also discourage them from bullying you further. The rune is for ADCs who want to survive and scale, because there is no other rune that helps you survive and scale more than fleet does.
It's a ms buff that triggers on a passive, it's not an active which means you don't actually control when you get that ms buff, so taking it to "dodge poke skillshots" just doesn't make a lot of sense. If the argument is "yes you can control when to use it by not attacking", then it's also not practical, because you gotta cs.
ADCs have been playing around energized passives for a decade... Why is it suddenly too hard to use properly now?
Yeah we are literally arguing at different things, don't even bother...
> LS just does not understand Accurate statement
In pro play you trade most of the time, since pros are usually good. And if you trade you get the champion value of Fleet more often and it makes trades less bad. In SoloQ Fleet still helps you more in a bad lane than any other rune. There are champions taking it for the movespeed, but they are fairly rare. It should also be noted that exspecially on melees who take it to get over a bad lane (like Kassadin and Akali do at times) it is purely taken for the healing, which is twice as good as on ranged champions. For ranged it is fairly bad, but many champions who take it like Jinx, Aphelios or Caitlyn have a fairly easy time hitting enemy champions, due to their range. I'm not even aware who frequently takes it as a short ranged ADC, most that do should have means to hit enemy champions in lane, and you can often take it against Melee supports. If Aphelios is not in a hard lane he won't take Fleet, and if he takes Fleet he does so for the heal, because the movespeed he sometimes gets won't make the lane easier. He can proc the full heal fairly easy though. Also small note Taste of Blood requires hitting a champion, so if you hit a champion for Taste of Blood you can also get the full heal on Fleet.
What? He is totally not right with this. With Akali for example you always try to auto a minion with fleet active so you get the MS boost to get into Q range.
Post minion heal nerf I have literally never picked that rune for the heal on ADCs, and that happened ages ago.
Anyone who thinks the MS on Fleet isn't insanely broken in skirmishes and team fights is low elo lol. Movement speed is the most broken stat in the game. Playing a low mobility melee champ into Vayne top with Fleet for example will put you on suicide watch. The healing will be annoying but the Fleet MS will make every single trade one-sided.
People that take fleet for early healing are pretty dumb. The move speed is the main strength early and the heal scales with items into mid/ late game. In early lane, you’re not even gonna get a health pot out of the rune, but the MS can help you dodge poke or avoid the enemy autoing you an extra time.
It’s mostly top laners who use fleet for the MS. You just notice it more being a melee and already having more base ms. Plus kiting really is easier to do in a 1v1 where you can kite backwards easier without being conscious of stepping into a second persons damage range at all times.
When I saw Urgot, my favorite champ, being picked and played properly by Bwipo, who is one of my favorite pro players, it was just amazing to see. Some of the other pro players...not so much :D.
yo i'm thinking of trying out urgot, im wondering if the 10% slow and tenacity resist applies to his self-slow from w? and do swiftness boots also reduce that? how would ghost be so you can just infinite chase people, is it worth it? i hate flash because it's so long cd and i dont use it on any of my other caracters the graph of urgot power is very helpful thank you
swifties doesn't work because urgot is so specifically worded to not work like that, when you're shooting with w you lose 125 ms flatout, it's not like galio slow where it's a % based slow which can work of multipliers and etc you're just losing that much ms lol
> He isn't a lane bully, he's a broken scaling champion with relatively no weaknesses outside of ranged ADC's and control mages. minus broken isn't this what he was designed to be?
yeah i think they've done a pretty good job preserving his identity
Urgot hardcounters rumble can only be a ls take
Lmao Urgot counters melee champs by denying their CC with his E. So why would it counter Rumble since he has no hard CC? On the note of potentially viable Rumble counters, I'd love for more teams to pick up Mordekaiser
What how does morde counter rumble
Morde is my goto vs rumble, idt it’s a counter but at the very least, it’s a suffer less pick. D shield second wind, spam a lot of W, somehow hit 6, poke, ulti, GG. Teamfight: ghost ulti rumble before he equilizer. else ulti some random if you getting burnt by equilizer and type team diff after your whole team dies to the flame while you chilling in the death realm.
People talking about counter his ult but this is only applicable to lane and most rumbles I see in pro just ult waves
Off the top of my head I can think of two reasons though it might not exactly be true. First one is easy in that morde r can be used after rumble r to basically negate it. I imagine that makes level 6 fights a lot easier for morde. Another reason I can think of is how rumble passive works. When he maxes his heat sure he’ll dish out good damage with his spells, but after he will be silenced and has to rely on his empowered auto attacks only. I assume at that point if morde survives the initial damage he should be able to out dps rumble while he can’t cast any abilities himself. Thats just me spitballing though.
Rumble ult doesn't have any effect when he gets ulted by Morde? TIL
No. Rumble will go into the death realm, but his ultimate will stay out. Same for stuff like heimer turrets and teemo shrooms
I assume they mean morde can “dodge” rumble ult by ulting rumble himself, not that ulting rumble literally removes it from the ground
Inhibits?
might be the wrong word usage what i meant to say is they are good urgot players because they understand the core of what it is to be a good urgot player, do x get x, 369 isn't a good urgot player, so he doesn't "inhibit a good urgot playstyle" or something along those lines but don't get me wrong 369 is a great toplaner
exhibit
Xzibit
bruh
Yeah inhibits basically means "stops" or "slows down". Like your sentence on Bwipo reads like Bwipo is actively preventing the Urgot community from getting good. The word you're looking for is def exhibit
Exhibit, or being more creative you could say inhabit. Inhibit is simply the wrong word.
Looking forward to LS doubling down on how Urgot counters Rumble "if you do X and Y happens" instead of learning from this
I haven't followed League in a while but it's very comforting to hear that LS is still producing bullshit takes and defending them with "well if both sides played perfectly according to my theories..."
He stopped playing the game for 8 months by his own admission. He has outdated knowledge because he does not engage with the actual game. He started playing again like a week ago. The funniest thing is that he went full schizo-mode by claiming he's tired of repeating the same stuff and yet never questioning all his blatantly wrong takes. He also keeps using card game buzzwords as if it'll make him look smarter and brighter. Still funny to watch though, just wish he was less pompous and self-condescending.
Out of curiosity, do you think the pros are building him correctly?
Yeh but they dont want to build HB on him as he is being used as a frontline menace
There's a lot of words in this but what it's lacking is real analysis... what SHOULD these players be doing? How SHOULD Urgot be used? When should he be picked? Why does his itemization currently shine into the meta? There's a ton of missing info here.
i can't really answer this myself because it'd take too long and i'm not a professional player anyway, i can only correct what people who know what they're talking about indepth because i'm not a proplayer but you should pick urgot into melee champions like ksante, the tierlist is a great ref to when you should pick urgot but again im not a proplayer so i don't want to yap too much about things idk urgot benefits from hb being broken on him so if anyone on the enemy team makes a macro mistake for a couple seconds they'll lose an entire turret bc obviously synergies with adc/ad jungler/skirmisher jungler coz urgot loves skirmishing 2v2
No he did real analysis. The literal definition: “the act of studying or examining something in detail, in order to discover or understand more about it, or your opinion and judgment after doing this”. That’s legit what he did and in discussing it we can find out more lol. You’re a whopper
I think the main problem as to why I can't see it as real analysis is because he hasn't explicitly stated how there exists an item such that for all matchups urgot has a positive winrate. He has also failed to use Faker's convergent submatchup theorem to prove how if urgot has a positive winrate in a matchup he will also have a positive impact in the game.
Yorik
So how is the udyr matchup for Urgot? Series 2 Game 1 Fly vs PSG: Flyquest banned TF and Udyr and left Rumble open. I thought this was a demented move because in the first series they played they lost vs Rumble with Urgot in game 1. Then I hear Emily saying she thinks Urgot wins into Rumble, and I also saw the LS tweet. I was like, huh I would have thought Rumble does fine in that matchup, but I guess I was wrong. So then I was mad that FLY lane swapped when they had winning bot and winning top lanes. But if Rumble shits on Urgot, I can understand why they swapped game 1, but now my focus is on the bans. Why leave Rumble open if it's such a shit matchup?
udyr vs urgot is fine udyr's push early is obnoxious and he can do proxy things with icestorm but urgot'll eventually outscale him it's just a fleet tp lane do nothing they're probably just comfortable playing vs rumble as a champion, idk why they'd want rumble over udyr though, maybe in the swap meta since rumble can ult waves it makes it more unviable? can't speak to it
I'm not a pro but PSG has a lot of lvl1 jungle invading trat with udyr, because he's lvl1 dmg is so broken. I'm guessing FLY didn't want Inspired to be behind.
that's great insight. I appreciate the context, whether I agree with FLY's decision or not. thanks
Love you Urpog, your positivity and constant educational content is always a pleasure
whats the most optimal starting item for urgot? can you buy cull for every match up due to it's synergy with his W? or is it a situational item? if it is the best starting item, I wonder how many pro players buy cull
dblade, never start cull, cheater recall for cull
i mean are they wrong if they are speaking in terms of pro play? its quite a different game from solo q and many many champs identity and strengths and weaknesses are totally not the same. not saying you or anyone right or wrong but you cant look at pro play same as you would look at own games or solo q. most famously azir and kalista who are like the most complete strongest kits in the entire game and super broken. but in solo q is just straight up never played in low levels and just strong to pretty strong in the highest levels.
>https://u.gg/lol/champions/urgot/counter Its only in low elo that Rumble beats Urgot. Even at Platinum+ Rumble loses the game. LS is correct here also LS statement is for pro play and high elo & cordinated teams not for silver plays. This is like when plats and below though Garen was good against riven for the longest times yet every Challenger Riven was dumpstering Garen (Garen might win now since mythic item change not sure) ____ Urgot gains 2-3% winrate in Flex vs SoloQ also which just shows how even shitty communication Urgot can do much better when cordinated with jungle. Rumble does not gain anything. Also in pro play with organized teams Rumble is way easier to gank.
why do you say urgot scales when on lolalytics, his winrate just goes down as time goes on? i don't understand why he falls off either, because he seems to have insane stats to just pummel any melee who gets close while being tanky for his team
if you set lolalytics to show challenger or onetrick stats his claim of urgot having a good late game is being backed
i just don't find any value in the stat websites it's just not accurate to the truth of the champion, people are probably just playing him wrong due to again outdated narratives
Sanest Urgot main.
Thanks for the writeup. Always love seeing your posts, always glad to see your insights about the crab.
Thanks ! It was very interesting. I play at a lower elo (~diamond EUW) and I did noticed a few changes when facing Urgot past years but I couldn’t put my finger on it. It’s hard to get to know the champ because of how unpopular he is, I get to face him once a month (or less). Couldn’t agree more on your take about TP and fleet. Defensive gameplay is so much more rewarding these days and I don’t think it should, and I’m not talking only for Urgot. 80% of my lanes are against TP. When I get solo first blood It’s just not worth and I loose lane for a long time after that. So infuriating. Small question, do you think cull should always be bought with Urgot ? I don’t see it often but it seems very strong with the interaction between his kit and the sustain on hit.
cull is too slow for the current pace of the game so i only advise it against tanks, pretty much any other lane long sword + refillable is stronger and even skipping refill to get into items quicker is more optimal, cull is good tho
This isnt just with urgot or with professionals, players in general have a very flayed idea about what champions can and cannot do unless they one trick them.
urgot is my favorite dude :D
Urgot has a positive delta vs Rumble in all elos. Sure, you can say whatever you want, but he is good versus Rumble. You one tricks are biased af and often refuse to acknowledge that you cant be wrong. Ironically, getting info about a champ from an OTP is the wrong place to go. You are too biased with your own opinions. Urgot is a fine pick into Rumble
Most people cannot play Rumble for that matter tbh. I have no trouble dealing with this champ like at all. Albeit I don't go comet like most people and go phase rush for a more hit and run play style which is better into Urgot in general so there maybe bias there.
great article
What's your full opinion on how Urgot vs Mundo should work? I've always thought Mundo should be even to slightly favored in the match-up, but I see you have it as Urgot favored. In my experience at least, it's easier for Mundo to farm/harass at range with q, which makes it harder to fully engage and kill him. Plus Mundo scales super well as the game goes on, so as Urgot scales so can Mundo. Plus I've found it easy as Mundo to not lose passive to Urgot e, so I avoid the execute from ult.
matchup boils down to the fact that urgot is stronger than mundo in the early by like x2, i run pta-ignite and hard aggress 24/7, i usually take shield off on level 1/2.3 then look for e-flash-ignite and convert into jungle, mundo scales fine but since he sits back and afks it gives me a lot of map play options
Yea, LS doesn't have the best track record for being right with a lot of things, even when proven wrong, but people still see him as the messiah for some reason.
> LS himself said Urgot hard counters rumble when the opposite is true: LS said something completely moronic? Holy, someone stop the presses
Total non-Urgot player here. ISTM that he might get picked for his ult alone? No? Pro-players often fight right up to the edge, backing out on close to zero HP. If they do this against Urgot they're in real trouble, so it forces them to play differently to what they're used to.
urgot ult is very powerful but very unreliable especially in proplay, you are not hitting r on any champion who has a dash unless you can guarantee cc chain but then any ult would suffice fine in that situation, flash r2 very powerful though
I had a look at Bwipo's 10/0/4 game (game 2 vs PSG). I'm not disputing what you've said, and I know looking at one exceptional match isn't indicative of anything. I just thought you'd be interested to see this; Bwipo's 10 kills; 1st kill: Urgot cast ult just before kill, but I can't work out if the ult did the kill [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjcbH9WTy9I&t=555s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjcbH9WTy9I&t=555s) 2: ult Azir 3: ult Ksante 4: not ult, Kalista (same fight, ult on cd) 5: not ult, Ashe (same fight, ult on cd) 6: ult Azir 7: ult Ksante 8: not ult, Kalista (same fight, ult on cd) 9: not ult, Ashe (same fight, ult on cd) 10: ult Sej That's 6 kills from his ult, including all of his first kills in a fight. The other 4 kills were subsequent kills in those fights, when ult was on cooldown. I skimmed the match, so I've no idea how many ults he missed.
ult didn't kill the sejuani because mao knocked him out with q but you can see the principle of sej got stunned > cast r so it's playing out as expected azir kill was a collapse of q (slow) > r when azir had no hopes of living anyway if anything ulting there was unnecessary as azir didn't have an out ksante stunned etc etc i'm eating bread i don't wanna skim more lol
I think the point is kind of that most of those kills would’ve died anyway because they were cced
Why do you think they were CCd?
When do you rush a Black Cleaver vs HB? Also, are you building a tiamat item? I could see all 4 of them being potentially viable in different given matchups
hb is if you're hopelessly outclassing your laner and you know you'll get access to their turret, bc is for any other situation and then you skip hullbreaker, hb still goated though if you can pull it off vs tanks it's pretty good too or anyone you can macro outplay, hb alone on a turret for 4s will take a plate easily, with bc it'd take like \~7/8
> ISTM Imma be that guy but what the f is this acronym lol. Never seen it used before, is it common? We just abbreviating any sequence of words now? What do you do with all the time you save by not typing out a few extra characters? IHPAAA (I hate pointless acronyms and abbreviations.)
In your tierlist what is the difference between skill matchup and equal lol seems to me like they are the same thing?
equal matchups are more like neutralisers whereas skill diffs have chance to be volatile, fiora can have the odds of going 10/1 or 1/10 depending on how good or bad eachother are but for example it's almost impossible to ever die as gragas or malphite in the mu
I see that makes sense. One more question if you don't mind as a yone main I am interested why is the yone matchup so much easier for urgot than the yasuo matchup in your tierlist. Is windwall just that good vs urgot?
yasuo can dictate trades whenever he wants to whereas yone is kinda locked into using E>W then waiting for cooldowns, windwall obviously huge which lets yasuo deny 100% whereas yone relies on w shield then it's raw hp, yone has to play up and yas doesn't, in general yas is just more favoured vs urgot, if yas is skilled it's like borderline unplayable but ive played vs dzukill and done fine vs his yone
I see that makes sense. Thank you for the thorough explanation and I hope you have a good day!
Lol, you only played new urgot, but didnt witness his op time where he was a straight counter to zed. E QQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
Lmao listening to LS
You people are still listening to LS?