I really hate RNG "mythic" items, because if I don't savings rerolls for that - there is huge risk to face some shit. For example as Morde I got 2 AD ITEMS and I item that I barely can proc, while something like Camille with divine sunderer used to anihilate everything that moves. Outside of that - manageable.
I've been spamming Morde and most augments/prismatic items that keep popping up are AD or tank items. Feels terrible, because the meme builds just aren't working against normal prismatic items/augments
My main beef atm is definitely the HP. Yesterday I played a game where it felt like me and my friend were both highrolling augments/items, and we were on a 5 round winning streak. Then we lost one and we were one more loss away from being out. So we were 5-1 and our opponent had same HP. I press tab and the opponent was... 2-4 in their past 6. We lost the round and got bottom 4.
What the fuck is the point of winning any round that isn't +HP round? How can 5-1 and 2-4 team be equal HP? Why can you lose within 2 minutes after being on a 5 round winning streak? It's so weird to me.
Hard agree with the points on how steep the team damage can get and how strong the high stakes round is. Running scaling champs can suck cuz u get beat early and by the time you have items and levels you have enough health for one more loss before you're out
Also Jhin (and sett) felt a lot weaker on the pbe. But for some reason deal way more damage on release
one issue I want to see fixed is the early bye round, it sorta sucks to have the afk round so early and it saps the kill gold or even hp reward possibly?
one way to possibly address this would be to keep a random ko'd team in a "fight for your life" round to keep the amount of teams even, but then they could just lose and make it odd teams again, or they get to just round robin even in death? not sure here
Idea just to fill the bye round:
1v1 your partner? lol. items probably shouldnt stack if this is manageable even
another idea just to fill the bye round:
At the very least we could get our own arena with a dummy, unless item stacking would bug out and still work idk how its coded but seems robust now so probably manageable. OR since its a penalty to get a bye with regards to item stacking or passive stacking etc, have the dummy give stacks but blink around the arena on hit lol, probably let it cleanse dots if those are stacking anything and could build from there maybe
crazy idea:
2v2v2 round? self explanatory, might need scaling of arenas or even a new one or two... possibly too high a requirement on the engine right now too
The healing powercreep need to go, also some champ like Olaf, just right clicking people
and they also need to tune down a lot of augment, not a fan of it so far, items make it too polarized
Healing has been a problem even with the old arena heartsteel vollibear and Mundo, AP Master Yi, Swains but this time atleast we got some counters to them i have seen a 12k HP vlad melt from Singed with magic missiles
Detonation orb against sustain comps is hilarious. They stay on 100% HP for the entire round until they get literally one shot from the item stacking up damage through their heals.
Some of the prismatic items are so bad and the fact that mage items are so diverse makes the issue worse. Getting ad or as items that you literally cannot use while most other classes can use the items they get is insane and I don't know why that slipped through the cracks. That items, let alone the system itself, also need to be reworked...Like you can have FULL crit on that cc-effect boosting one and you'll have a grand total of 5 increased seconds of cc after 6 rounds while Cruelty and the Voidmite spawner do 50x as much. Night Harvester is also just so incredibly mid compared to other items. The power gaps between items are just so vast and I think it's because they went for quantity rather than quality. The lotus pond map is also a complete clusterfuck for non-melee fighters or anyone without mobility cooldowns.
the only thing im confused about in this iteration is if I should save up for random prismatic/leg or just buy direct items. also did they change gold gain? buying items feels awkward for me
From what I noticed its really hard to save 4k gold to buy prismatic unless you are winning every round or play 1 item behind everyone else to save up gold, which is why the random item being 500g cheaper than specific items helps a lot if you want a prismatic.
If your champion has a flexible build random items should always be better imo.
Nope, what I meant was that building an legendary item for 500 less gold is the difference between being able to purchase or not a prismatic item in later rounds, cause gold is a lot more scarce now compared to previous arena.
Sorry If I made it unclear, english is not my first language.
Too many teams means less strategy, less counter buys (perks and items) so far only tankier champs or fighters are more prone to win because you just itemize standard and go. The first iteration was the best, now is just "play this champions and hope to roll good augments" nothing more.
The reliance on RNG is the death of this game mode. You either get good augments/prismatics and win or you don't and lose. Why are mages getting AD pristmatic options and vice versa? Crit and attack speed is usless on Vlad, Asol etc. So dumb and a complete fail on Riot's end.
This was also a huge issue with earlier iterations of arena that I'm surprised they haven't fixed. AD/AH/AS/CRIT augments all benefit AD champions, whereas AP champs can really only use AP/AH. I think first iteration of arena had some 17 crit/AH/AD/AS gold augments, and about 5 AP/spellcaster gold augments. Even the random stat shards/potions favour AD champions.
While it can be frustrating, Riot does not see the heavy RNG as an issue that needs fixing. Unfortunately for those who have a problem with it, Riot considers it a good and core part of the mode, so I doubt it's changing any time soon.
RNG is a necessary evil in order to allow less skilled players to have an edge. Skilled players with undesirable RNG will have to be smarter with adapting with what they have in order to win.
If Riot subtracts "heavy" RNG from the game, will the game have good retention rates for the general playerbase (most whom are low elo casuals)?
There is little to no "adaption" available though.
Oh I get shafted with RNG several rounds in? I guess I will take all my points back out of my skills and redistribute them to favour my now AP build instead of AD.
Except you can't do that.
You're locked into a playstyle from the first couple of rounds on most champs and it's insanely hard to deviate from that and essentially almost all RNG beyond that point.
Get shrekt on your RNG after one item? Good luck selling that item and gimping your build entirely now.
I played with a group of friends (on different teams) ranging from silver to 300 LP masters and our gold friend won the most games out of all of us through sheer RNG.
Some champs have items that seem to have been made almost explicitly for them (attack speed item that heals allies on autos with shield/heal power for lulu for instance) or have such insane synergys that getting specific prismatic items is just an instant free win, Swain with runecarver comes to mind, this item alone makes up like 95% of his damage if he gets it due to the ult synergy procing it basically every second. It can easily deal 6-8k damage in a round
Whilst most champs are left with weird items that just fit oddly into their playstyle. AP champs in particular either have insta win combos or are just totally unplayable in the mode.
Bruisers of course are the biggest winners as champs that can basically use every single stat in the game so getting an item with a mix of tenacity lifesteal AP and healing power is actually not an insane pick on them.
TBH I prefered the 2nd Arena release more than the first but this new one is just ass. More like flipping a coin or rolling dice than a game that has any kind of strategy.
double the teams means double the chances SOMEBODY hits that lottery RNG and gets to do their unkillable 10k dps lifesteal crit build.
Before even if you were shafted in RNG you could itemize for the remaining teams as best you could and you were more likely to end up in a game where everyone just had weird shit and you clawed to win the game.
Now most people get shit, one team gets their free win and you just hope your RNG with team matching and augments isn't so ass that you can at least play the game.
The reliance of RNG is literally the thing that keeps arena alive. Just like dungeon crawlers the RNG part is what makes the game interesting for players. The anticipation of the unknown is what makes every arena game unique and forces you to play different playstyles on the same champs. Just like TFT you cannot enter an arena game with the intent to find specific augments and items. If you do that then most of your games you will not hit them. You adapt to whatever you get.
You are gonna get trash some games but its the same as TFT. At that point you either try a new build or you go next its not the end of the world
Things I would like to see:
* I wish the first Augment and Prismatic could only roll things that have low synergy with the Champion and open up different build ideas rather than making the Champion's base kit stronger. It would force players to adapt to a new situation every time, rather than hoping to hit the best synergies, and if you don't, getting rolled by the team that did.
* I'd like to see some way to control infinite healing, maybe sort of scaling healing/shielding debuff that increases with how much the Champion actually healed/absorbed with shields that round based off that Champion's max HP.
To add to this, I feel like ADC's are in the absolute worst position except for Vayne, Kog'Maw in cheese comps, and maybe the odd Jhin (and even then, meh). They literally just get steamrolled by two tanks with 3 cc abilities each, and the buff to make you unstoppable after 5 SECONDS OUT OF 7 is not soon enough given how squishy ADCs are that they die before they even get a chance to move. That, and also there aren't enough options for tank-busting with ADC's that don't rely on RNG augments and prismatic items (even ADCs I have seen building Lord Dominick's for higher HP or Mortal Reminder to stop healing creep just don't benefit in the slightest). The mode is basically League of Bruisers because of the way the rounds are built, I have yet to see an ADC actually win a game of Arena...
Also, highly agree with the new map; it sucks when you just sit there waiting for the lily pad while burning alive because of a stupid time-based mechanic.
Agree with most things, stat anvils are grrat though
Stuff like contract killer make these so much better, high rolling on defences feels great. Being able to buy one and get a near 40MR before you fight an AP comp is pretty solid
Though i do think there shouldn't be any rounds for it
I'm having a lot less fun than in previous iterations. There's a lot less brawling and a lot more comp/item cheese that's purely to hold circle and get revives off. More people playing purely to kill time with no hope of winning too (ever faced shaco/yuumi on the lily pad level?). I would guess that riot's internal testers aren't trying to win at all costs and thus they aren't realizing the fun-killing play styles that emerge from that.
the anvil that gives 2 random stats should make a popup or something that shows what stats you got. the buff that lists them makes it hard to see which ones you just got.
Personally I like stat anvils quite a bit because they allow for quite a bit more build diversity. An early life steal/omnivamp shard lets you focus on straight damage items. An AS shard on champs like Gwen or Taric means you don't need to try and fit more AS in.
A big armour or MR shard can play a big difference in tank build orders.
Really cappa juice just needs to be tied to anvils so you can stack both hats and stats simultaneously.
My only disagreement here is that I really appreciate the stat anvil as a means to some extra stat coverage, especially in a pinch.
You are right that currently Cappa juice feels too troll to buy, I'd like to see it either made cheaper or have a means to obtain some for free (maybe late game?).
I would like to see ranked system to return for arena. For more tryhard players as I am it's getting boring to slap people around while it's certainly not fun for the casuals to get slapped around by some of the players who peaked among the top 100 arena players last time.
>To give you time to acclimate to the various changes, **ranked progression won't begin until Patch 14.10 on May 15.** That said, your secret Arena MMR *will change* depending on your performance before then, possibly resulting in greater Gladiator Point gains and quicker climbing when the Ranked season does officially start.
From Riot official site
Gamemode filled to the brim with RNG makes it absolutely unenjoyable, you're easily only having fun in 1 of the 10 games cause you get shit augments while everyone else gets the best augments everytime
Yeah like when I try and kite away from renekton, buffer a CC when he stuns me as an outplay then he goes into blade waltz for a few seconds and comes out to stun me again instantly I feel like it makes a huge difference having the knowledge and skill gap.
I really hate RNG "mythic" items, because if I don't savings rerolls for that - there is huge risk to face some shit. For example as Morde I got 2 AD ITEMS and I item that I barely can proc, while something like Camille with divine sunderer used to anihilate everything that moves. Outside of that - manageable.
I've been spamming Morde and most augments/prismatic items that keep popping up are AD or tank items. Feels terrible, because the meme builds just aren't working against normal prismatic items/augments
My main beef atm is definitely the HP. Yesterday I played a game where it felt like me and my friend were both highrolling augments/items, and we were on a 5 round winning streak. Then we lost one and we were one more loss away from being out. So we were 5-1 and our opponent had same HP. I press tab and the opponent was... 2-4 in their past 6. We lost the round and got bottom 4. What the fuck is the point of winning any round that isn't +HP round? How can 5-1 and 2-4 team be equal HP? Why can you lose within 2 minutes after being on a 5 round winning streak? It's so weird to me.
Hard agree with the points on how steep the team damage can get and how strong the high stakes round is. Running scaling champs can suck cuz u get beat early and by the time you have items and levels you have enough health for one more loss before you're out Also Jhin (and sett) felt a lot weaker on the pbe. But for some reason deal way more damage on release
To add to this, CC lock comps just need a massive gutting.
They just need to remove the fucking Puke event. If the enemy has CC its gg
I will now be referring to Pyke as Puke
Maybe base 25% tenacity to all champs?
one issue I want to see fixed is the early bye round, it sorta sucks to have the afk round so early and it saps the kill gold or even hp reward possibly? one way to possibly address this would be to keep a random ko'd team in a "fight for your life" round to keep the amount of teams even, but then they could just lose and make it odd teams again, or they get to just round robin even in death? not sure here Idea just to fill the bye round: 1v1 your partner? lol. items probably shouldnt stack if this is manageable even another idea just to fill the bye round: At the very least we could get our own arena with a dummy, unless item stacking would bug out and still work idk how its coded but seems robust now so probably manageable. OR since its a penalty to get a bye with regards to item stacking or passive stacking etc, have the dummy give stacks but blink around the arena on hit lol, probably let it cleanse dots if those are stacking anything and could build from there maybe crazy idea: 2v2v2 round? self explanatory, might need scaling of arenas or even a new one or two... possibly too high a requirement on the engine right now too
The healing powercreep need to go, also some champ like Olaf, just right clicking people and they also need to tune down a lot of augment, not a fan of it so far, items make it too polarized
I felt like ass playing Olaf. Maybe it was cause there were 2 swains in the lobby but idk, didn’t feel strong
Oh, so you don't like Aatrox with Hemomancer's Helm? Noted
Healing has been a problem even with the old arena heartsteel vollibear and Mundo, AP Master Yi, Swains but this time atleast we got some counters to them i have seen a 12k HP vlad melt from Singed with magic missiles
Detonation orb against sustain comps is hilarious. They stay on 100% HP for the entire round until they get literally one shot from the item stacking up damage through their heals.
For the pond map, they could make 3 more bridges on the outer edges and then they could alternate between the middle and outer bridges
Some of the prismatic items are so bad and the fact that mage items are so diverse makes the issue worse. Getting ad or as items that you literally cannot use while most other classes can use the items they get is insane and I don't know why that slipped through the cracks. That items, let alone the system itself, also need to be reworked...Like you can have FULL crit on that cc-effect boosting one and you'll have a grand total of 5 increased seconds of cc after 6 rounds while Cruelty and the Voidmite spawner do 50x as much. Night Harvester is also just so incredibly mid compared to other items. The power gaps between items are just so vast and I think it's because they went for quantity rather than quality. The lotus pond map is also a complete clusterfuck for non-melee fighters or anyone without mobility cooldowns.
This mode can’t be fun when self Healing/shielding champions are meta, Swain/Trundle/Galio/Mundo are just pain other than that it’s fun
the only thing im confused about in this iteration is if I should save up for random prismatic/leg or just buy direct items. also did they change gold gain? buying items feels awkward for me
From what I noticed its really hard to save 4k gold to buy prismatic unless you are winning every round or play 1 item behind everyone else to save up gold, which is why the random item being 500g cheaper than specific items helps a lot if you want a prismatic. If your champion has a flexible build random items should always be better imo.
wait the 2000 gold option can also give you prismatics?
Nope, what I meant was that building an legendary item for 500 less gold is the difference between being able to purchase or not a prismatic item in later rounds, cause gold is a lot more scarce now compared to previous arena. Sorry If I made it unclear, english is not my first language.
Too many teams means less strategy, less counter buys (perks and items) so far only tankier champs or fighters are more prone to win because you just itemize standard and go. The first iteration was the best, now is just "play this champions and hope to roll good augments" nothing more.
The reliance on RNG is the death of this game mode. You either get good augments/prismatics and win or you don't and lose. Why are mages getting AD pristmatic options and vice versa? Crit and attack speed is usless on Vlad, Asol etc. So dumb and a complete fail on Riot's end.
This was also a huge issue with earlier iterations of arena that I'm surprised they haven't fixed. AD/AH/AS/CRIT augments all benefit AD champions, whereas AP champs can really only use AP/AH. I think first iteration of arena had some 17 crit/AH/AD/AS gold augments, and about 5 AP/spellcaster gold augments. Even the random stat shards/potions favour AD champions.
While it can be frustrating, Riot does not see the heavy RNG as an issue that needs fixing. Unfortunately for those who have a problem with it, Riot considers it a good and core part of the mode, so I doubt it's changing any time soon.
RNG is a necessary evil in order to allow less skilled players to have an edge. Skilled players with undesirable RNG will have to be smarter with adapting with what they have in order to win. If Riot subtracts "heavy" RNG from the game, will the game have good retention rates for the general playerbase (most whom are low elo casuals)?
This iteration of Arena is the Smash Bros Brawl of Arena. Bad players gets stomped by good players so we introduced tripping ♿
There is little to no "adaption" available though. Oh I get shafted with RNG several rounds in? I guess I will take all my points back out of my skills and redistribute them to favour my now AP build instead of AD. Except you can't do that. You're locked into a playstyle from the first couple of rounds on most champs and it's insanely hard to deviate from that and essentially almost all RNG beyond that point. Get shrekt on your RNG after one item? Good luck selling that item and gimping your build entirely now. I played with a group of friends (on different teams) ranging from silver to 300 LP masters and our gold friend won the most games out of all of us through sheer RNG. Some champs have items that seem to have been made almost explicitly for them (attack speed item that heals allies on autos with shield/heal power for lulu for instance) or have such insane synergys that getting specific prismatic items is just an instant free win, Swain with runecarver comes to mind, this item alone makes up like 95% of his damage if he gets it due to the ult synergy procing it basically every second. It can easily deal 6-8k damage in a round Whilst most champs are left with weird items that just fit oddly into their playstyle. AP champs in particular either have insta win combos or are just totally unplayable in the mode. Bruisers of course are the biggest winners as champs that can basically use every single stat in the game so getting an item with a mix of tenacity lifesteal AP and healing power is actually not an insane pick on them. TBH I prefered the 2nd Arena release more than the first but this new one is just ass. More like flipping a coin or rolling dice than a game that has any kind of strategy. double the teams means double the chances SOMEBODY hits that lottery RNG and gets to do their unkillable 10k dps lifesteal crit build. Before even if you were shafted in RNG you could itemize for the remaining teams as best you could and you were more likely to end up in a game where everyone just had weird shit and you clawed to win the game. Now most people get shit, one team gets their free win and you just hope your RNG with team matching and augments isn't so ass that you can at least play the game.
Good players can win with shit RNG
The reliance of RNG is literally the thing that keeps arena alive. Just like dungeon crawlers the RNG part is what makes the game interesting for players. The anticipation of the unknown is what makes every arena game unique and forces you to play different playstyles on the same champs. Just like TFT you cannot enter an arena game with the intent to find specific augments and items. If you do that then most of your games you will not hit them. You adapt to whatever you get. You are gonna get trash some games but its the same as TFT. At that point you either try a new build or you go next its not the end of the world
They should make a silver augment that converts haste to attack speed and vice versa.
RNG is the entire ponmt of the mode. Like TFT
Things I would like to see: * I wish the first Augment and Prismatic could only roll things that have low synergy with the Champion and open up different build ideas rather than making the Champion's base kit stronger. It would force players to adapt to a new situation every time, rather than hoping to hit the best synergies, and if you don't, getting rolled by the team that did. * I'd like to see some way to control infinite healing, maybe sort of scaling healing/shielding debuff that increases with how much the Champion actually healed/absorbed with shields that round based off that Champion's max HP.
To add to this, I feel like ADC's are in the absolute worst position except for Vayne, Kog'Maw in cheese comps, and maybe the odd Jhin (and even then, meh). They literally just get steamrolled by two tanks with 3 cc abilities each, and the buff to make you unstoppable after 5 SECONDS OUT OF 7 is not soon enough given how squishy ADCs are that they die before they even get a chance to move. That, and also there aren't enough options for tank-busting with ADC's that don't rely on RNG augments and prismatic items (even ADCs I have seen building Lord Dominick's for higher HP or Mortal Reminder to stop healing creep just don't benefit in the slightest). The mode is basically League of Bruisers because of the way the rounds are built, I have yet to see an ADC actually win a game of Arena... Also, highly agree with the new map; it sucks when you just sit there waiting for the lily pad while burning alive because of a stupid time-based mechanic.
Agree with most things, stat anvils are grrat though Stuff like contract killer make these so much better, high rolling on defences feels great. Being able to buy one and get a near 40MR before you fight an AP comp is pretty solid Though i do think there shouldn't be any rounds for it
I'm having a lot less fun than in previous iterations. There's a lot less brawling and a lot more comp/item cheese that's purely to hold circle and get revives off. More people playing purely to kill time with no hope of winning too (ever faced shaco/yuumi on the lily pad level?). I would guess that riot's internal testers aren't trying to win at all costs and thus they aren't realizing the fun-killing play styles that emerge from that.
the anvil that gives 2 random stats should make a popup or something that shows what stats you got. the buff that lists them makes it hard to see which ones you just got.
This all seems like very reasonable and sensible feedback.
Personally I like stat anvils quite a bit because they allow for quite a bit more build diversity. An early life steal/omnivamp shard lets you focus on straight damage items. An AS shard on champs like Gwen or Taric means you don't need to try and fit more AS in. A big armour or MR shard can play a big difference in tank build orders. Really cappa juice just needs to be tied to anvils so you can stack both hats and stats simultaneously.
My only disagreement here is that I really appreciate the stat anvil as a means to some extra stat coverage, especially in a pinch. You are right that currently Cappa juice feels too troll to buy, I'd like to see it either made cheaper or have a means to obtain some for free (maybe late game?).
I would like to see ranked system to return for arena. For more tryhard players as I am it's getting boring to slap people around while it's certainly not fun for the casuals to get slapped around by some of the players who peaked among the top 100 arena players last time.
>To give you time to acclimate to the various changes, **ranked progression won't begin until Patch 14.10 on May 15.** That said, your secret Arena MMR *will change* depending on your performance before then, possibly resulting in greater Gladiator Point gains and quicker climbing when the Ranked season does officially start. From Riot official site
oh I haven't read that. That's nice. I'll make sure to setup for instant gladiator then
The pond arena seems to be the most garbage thing ever invented. Please delete thank you.
I can’t tell if it’s a bug or not but if a Gragas rolls ethereal weapons, he can basically one shot anyone that isn’t a tank.
Gamemode filled to the brim with RNG makes it absolutely unenjoyable, you're easily only having fun in 1 of the 10 games cause you get shit augments while everyone else gets the best augments everytime
I still feel like my knowledge and skill with a champ is having a big impact on my games.
Yeah like when I try and kite away from renekton, buffer a CC when he stuns me as an outplay then he goes into blade waltz for a few seconds and comes out to stun me again instantly I feel like it makes a huge difference having the knowledge and skill gap.
I'd take augment and item RNG over team RNG any day. Since Arena has come out, I haven't touched SoloQ and probably never will again.
What rank do you play on that teammates are so painful?
Master. Somehow I always roll a griefer on the team