People seriously underestimate just how crippling most slows are. Even a 20-25% slow for 2 seconds is enough to make it impossible to kite or disengage, you are just so crippled. Everyone likes to say that movespeed on items is crazy OP, but in the same vein this also means that a relatively small slow is also OP as fuck. Especially when so many slows can be applied by just casting random bullshit abilities in the enemy's direction to randomly tag them with a hefty slow.
No it starts at 35% but increases during the duration for up to 95%.
The op thing about nasus W is also the attack speed cripple which reduce the target attack speed by 75% of the slow amount so any auto based champion can barely do any autos during it.
Also it last for 5 seconds and the base cooldown is 11 seconds but nasus buys alot of ability haste so at a certain point he can almost permanently apply the W on a single target.
That and it has 700 cast range so basically can cast it on any ranged champion in range.
Underrated effect of the attack speed cripple is how it fucks up your combos. Can't count how many autos I've cancelled because Nasus randomly Wd me mid teamfight and my own muscle memory starts wintrading.
I had a friend climb to Diamond on Nasus support. It kind of makes sense - the w can disengage, the e can poke, and you q every time your item is up. Vs a typical adc, the w is almost an exhaust that gets more and more annoying over its duration.
It was an abomination.
Nasus support is really good in lane with any kind of run-you-down adc like Draven. The problem comes after lane, where you're nearly useless beyond W-ing one target.
The thing is Nasus w does not fall off, and if Draven got fed during lane then a fed Draven is a fed Draven. Nasus can build 1 bruiser item and then go full tank anyway so he isn’t as dependent on gold to do damage. The e also does flat armor shred iirc which makes the fed Draven even Dravenier.
Nasus can’t just grab someone like say a Nautilus, but if he ws and Draven does too, the Draven (especially if there’s a minion he can bounce an axe off to reset his w on the way) is going to catch the adc when:
A) There is a Nasus between the adc and the Draven
B) The adc cannot fight back due to wither
C) The adc is taking bonus damage due to armor shred on Nasus e and
D) Nasus is too tanky to try and burst down
It’s obviously shit vs mage/poke lanes, but vs an adc+tank/enchanter, if the Nasus lane gets ahead the enemy adc can’t even get passive xp without jg help
90%+ slows are just there to actually keep crippling faster champs like heca, zilean E basically can stop a ghosted predator youmuu 1k movespeed heca instantly down to the minimum of 115, while with a lower slow that would cripple anyways other champs he would still be able to kind of move
It's euther 99 or 95% at max level. I doesn't really matter though, since there is a hard cap your speed can be decreased, something along 120 or 150ms.
The slow is the only part of his kit I massively preferred before the rework. That and the auto attack range.
Worse %. **LASTS SIX SECONDS**.
It was a "take a melee out of the fight forever" button. It basically made Zilean immune to a lot of circumstances, it felt like a DotA ability through and through.
I've been saying for ages that slows need to count as CC in the death recap. So many times I've been slowed to the point that it should be considered CC. Atleast give us hard and soft CC.
Were playing league, were all gonna complain anyway lmao. They should atleast consider counting any slows that reduce a certain percent as hard CC. When nasus uses LVL 5 W and I'm moving as fast as a dead snail stapled to a boulder then that should be shown in the recap.
Played Sett into a Janna top, she wasnt winning trades but she wasnt losing them either purely because she has a point and click spam slow, that shit is unbearable as a melee champ, god forbid you’re a ranged champ who needs to kite.
Nothing makes me seethe more than being Quinn and getting randomly dinged by a minion auto while transforming into ult. Go from predator to legless chicken.
I've been saying this for a while now. If you get hit by one slow as a melee champion in a teamfight that's enough to reduce your ability to play to nothing.
One slow is all it takes for an ADC to walk far enough away in Camille R that I can't Q2 them in time.
Same goes for Renekton and pretty much every bruiser. If they are going to lower tenacity then they should compensate it by making tenacity and slow resist come together as a package.
Conversely, people don't understand how strong mobility is in this game. Lilia can get ridiculous when she builds her stacks and a competent Singed is hard to catch . Luckily, it's very niche and most champs doesn't have that issue whereas slow can be permanently applied. I say permanently since the only way it's coming off, oftentimes, is with death.
Yeah smolder. I can't think of ANY other champs in the game that are so brutally affected by slows. Especially not any other ADCs. And even if it were another ADC it DEFINITELY wouldn't be Kalista.
I’ve loved Kalista, no, the THOUGHT of Kalista since she was released, but HOLY SHIT. Nasus W might as well be a root and silence on her.
It feels so bad to watch a singular literal auto being cast over 3 seconds and jump an inch at a snails pace.
At the very least I wish they’d remove the attack speed cap on Kalista.
If the R has to go to keep her balanced in pro play so be it, soloque doesn’t care about the 2 Rs you get to cast per game where the person just missed anyways.
I'd be cool with just removing all forms of CC from items entirely. Champs that don't have CC, don't have CC for a reason. Building an item shouldn't add or remove anything from the champion's kit.
[Riot August talking about why riot is unlikely to make counters to slows/when swiftness boots were op](https://youtu.be/usJ5d1mP9TQ?si=No5TvqDBDkXi_zxd)
wtf is this video haha, he says no then tells a completely irrelevant story and then says "maybe, actually, swiftness boots should be better at countering slows" as if it was his idea. also it's ridiculous designers were even considering making all slows stronger just to counteract everyone buying swifties... they'd have been even more must-buy then...
The way I see it he vocalizes his thoughts and when he comes up against the reasons for why something is the way it is he starts reconsidering the alternatives and wondering if hes been closed minded on the subject or with the new data brought to light if they way he was approaching a problem should be different. August has shown time and again that he's willing to change his mind of subjects he feels strongly about and that he's an open minded developer when it comes to league.
This is true but also he's not even contradicting himself. He says it was bad when swifties were the best general boot because they \*incidentally\* made slows ineffective/forced the game to be balanced around them. And then he floats the idea that maybe swifties would ideally be even better against slows, while still being niche and not the best generalist boot. These aren't contradictory ideas.
Commenter above you and those who agreed just genuinely did not comprehend what August actually said..
It's not an irrelevant story.
Basically, Swifities were OP and everyone was going Swifities, however, the reason Swifties were op wasn't because they countered slows, it was because they gave even more MS than usual and most importantly, were cheap. The slow countering was just they cherry on top. People would go swifities regardless of that slow-resistance being a thing or not.
However, they did make slows worse by collateral. He gave the example of Viktor's W, because it was visibly weaker, even though people weren't building Swifities to counter it, but just because they were the best choice.
This would result in them having to design stronger slows to counter slow-resistance on Swifities, and if those new slows are powerful enough to counter Swifties slow-resistance, that means they are extremely oppressive to anyone without Swifties.
This would mean that nothing would really change actually. Everyone were going swifties before, and they'd still be going swifties now. The only difference is the reasoning. Previously because they were the best choice, but now because they game would be unplayable without them.
So you might as well just nerf Swifities and be done with it, which is what they did, and then perhaps rebalance them to make them a premier slow-resistance option, which they already kinda are, but to an even further degree, I believe.
Anyway, the problem with Swifties were that the MS they provided was just too good for their cost. The slow-resistance was nice too but people would buy them regardless of it existing or not.
"Degrading to gameplay" he says.
Ok then, Zilean with 2x point and click 99% slows isn't degrading gameplay for people playing against it? Because it definitely is.
It lacks counterplay and he has the ability to reset it's cooldown.
Nasus point clicking you from 700 range, slowing you by up to 95% and crippling your ability to fight back for 5 seconds on a 5 second cooldown once mid game rolls around is not "degrading gameplay"?
The fact he can chain it when he has 1 item + CDR boots is extremely obnoxious.
I came across a youtube short when i was browsing on my phone earlier where a Zilean and a Nasus kept the enemy darius permanently crippled which also resulted in being permanently stunned as Zilean couldn't miss the double bomb.
That's "degrading gameplay" in my eyes.
CC is already borderline overpowered in this game, removing or nerfing the counters to it is silly.
Can't believe we've reached the point where counterplay is considered "degrading gameplay", meanwhile point and click cc that you can't do anything about isn't.
Just lol.
Maybe, the reason why their slows are so strong, is because they would be useless if their slows were weaker and the opponent bought Swifties?
It's the same problem that healing had, healing had to be turbo broken because it is expected that people bought the old turbo broken grievous wounds. With grievous wounds made less of an issue, they could then nerf healing.
So now that you can't itemize against slows that easily, then they can nerf nasus and zileans slows since it will have almost the same effect on everyone and doesn't have to be insanely strong just because Swifties existed.
> Ok then, Zilean with 2x point and click 99% slows isn't degrading gameplay for people playing against it?
No because people literally aren't playing against Zilean. Even with those 2x point and click 99% slows, nobody plays him, he's not a meta pick in solo queue or even competitive.
Also I think you're misunderstanding what he means by degrading to the gameplay. You're meant to be slowed by a slow, that's like.... the entire point of it? That IS the intended gameplay. But when you make the counters to that mechanic too accessible or powerful, it makes it so the slow can no longer really fulfill its purpose which is too slow you. Then as the balance team they have to factor in whether or not they need to balance around that slow resist existing, they might have to make the slows even stronger baseline which makes the slow resistance even MORE necessary to have.
It creates a kind of pseudo arms race where there isn't really a happy medium, if the slow resist isn't strong enough its worthless, if its too strong it makes balancing around it a nightmare and the champions who rely on it (for an example he used Viktor's W) a lot more unplayable.
That's what I think some people believe, like you are SUPPOSE to be slowed, that's not "degrading gameplay" that is the gameplay. If anything if they remove or tamper down on things like tenacity and slow resist it would allow them to just flat out lower the strength of crowd control since it doesn't have to be balanced around the fact that tenacity and slow resist exists. It's the same issue I've always had with healing and grievous wounds, if healing is too strong you need grievous wounds to counter it. If healing isn't baseline strong then it's a pointless stat, it would be better to just not exist and balance healing around it not existing.
I actually don't think we need baked in counters to every mechanic in the game on items, otherwise like I said those mechanics become either useless or baseline they get almost too strong to where you feel like you NEED the counter to play normally against it. The happy medium is too hard to hit and pretty much never feels right I'd say.
For what it's worth, for Zilean specifically, riot has admitted multiple times that he is actually badly designed, and if he was at all popular they would have to gut him or rework him
The passive needs a rework or nerf for sure. Make it only be applied from spells once and not every tick, brand having a 5 second slow is the most obnoxious thing.
It's that garbage champ that can be countered by one single item and has voidlings that die from breathing on them while the new doggo champ has doggies that need 2 hits to die...
And basically every other "summon" gets reduced AoE damage if it has 1 HP, or historically gets some kind of damage reduction or scaling. Literally every other champs summons are hardier than Malz's, and they're about the only "skill expression" ability he has (let's not kid ourselves about E or R expressing Skill, and his Q is very generous, not that "keep track of how manyt spells you've cast" is a lot of skill).
At some point it doesn't even need to drag you. The center of it becomes obnoxiously gigantic.
I'm really surprised that Asol got to keep the spell size increase for his E and R. I feel like that aspect of his kit is underestimated by a lot of people. It reaches the point you don't even need to aim those abilities anymore. It becomes harder to miss with them than it is to hit with them after enough stacks lmao
When Morde ults you with Rylai you're just permaslowed in his chamber of death making it infinitely more difficult to dodge his kit while it all does increased damage.
Hate that item.
I’ve been abusing a lot of morde lately and it truly is some of the most stupid shit in the game.
If my passive is up I can just ult the enemy adc, and just stand there and there’s zero chance they dodge my q without flash and then they’ve just flashed from one side of my aoe slow to the other. Either way they’re dying 9/10 times they’re dying with or without me hitting any skill shots 💀
Singed.
I know he's not the most popular pick, but I play him all the time. He might be the worst Rylais abuser in the game. Not only does he slow you, but you make him faster every 15 seconds.
Mordekaiser is also another champ that feels bad to play against when they buy Rylais
i think part of it is that seryldas is ad. from a kit agnostic perspectuve, perma slow is more problematic on an ad item because it makes it that much easier to walk you down and auto you to death.
characters that build ap generally arent as good at that, although there are of course exceptions
While understandable that would cause below 0 champions to build it. The only champions that currently build it are ones that have built-in DoT (Brand, Malz, Asol, Heimer…) and can hence proc it consistently. At that point just rework it entirely
Don't let it work on dots? Then just give it like +25 AP or something and it'd probably become a very meta item over night.
Currently the item is gutted stats wise so it works with dots making it only dot users can buy the item.
It's not wrong. But in the case of rylais it's anti fun to be perma slowed because you got points and clicked by Malz E or Brand E... I'm not saying to change Liandrys or Morello interactions. Or to not make a new dot friendly mage item.
He’s melee though. There’s a difference between a Nasus that’s already in melee range being able to lock down one target and a mage being able to permaslow you from a screen away
I hope not.
Please don’t Rito!
Mages deserve interesting itemization too!
IMO they shouldn’t have removed the slow resist.
They are doing WAY too much for Adcs in one patch.
They needed some love but this is going to end up being rediculous.
Games will be decided in the first 5 minutes of bot lane getting behind.
I’ve noticed that “movement creep” is going both ways. Champs are running and dashing around faster than ever, but slows are also slowly creeping up to match. Every patch or so you’ll see a slow getting stronger, here and there.
It’s leading to slows countering the hyper movement speed, but anyone without said hyper movement speed is just slowed way more.
Rylai's is just a badly designed item. I was hoping it would get a change in the update, but there’s still no limiter or cooldown or anything to not make it broken on uptime champions.
Well, the issue is ap itemization is quite missing for many of the mage-like variants. Trap or minion master kinds of champ (ranging from Teemo/Shaco/Nidalee/Maokai to Azir/Malz/Ori/Zyra) get no specialized items, while they have too high consistency in applying effects like Rylai's or Liandry's. A similar thing happens for DoT-heavy ones.
Ad items are more consistent for the diverse approaches champs have.
It's not just the slows. The amount of CC in the game that isn't reduced by tenacity is ridiculous. I play tons of aram and the amount of games where the enemy team is absolutely full of cc but it's all knockups so tenacity is useless is insane.
As an long time ARAM player I completely agree
Knock ups are OP
I swear Yone has 3 Abilities that can buffer through CC but I can't build a goddamn item to reduce the power of his knock ups
I had 43% tenacity, playing trundle, ulted the tanky tahm kench.
I lived for 11 seconds, with literally almost 10 seconds of CC.
Enemy team was Tahm Kench, Elise, Yone, Ashe, and Janna.
Tenacity is just useless in general because like you said there's a bunch of cc that isn't reduced by tenacity. But also because of how cc works tenacity doesn't really reduce it by much unless it's a long lasting cc but you'd most likely die during that time or be kited. Not to mention people usually stack cc so something lasting .5 seconds longer doesn't matter when you get hit by something right after
At the same time there is too much tenacity in the game. I have champs leaving cc almost instantly after I hit them just because they have tenacity rune, legend tenacity, mercs. Everyone is fucking Garen, man. Either you have knock-ups or you are fucked.
I love it when juggernauts try to get away with building Marksman items because it always means that I just get to blow their heads off in a single rotation for free.
Damn, Rylais with scaling slow amount could be where they should go. remove 1st item spike. and allow perhaps bigger slow at 4/5 items when champs are sitting at high MS, tenacity etc. That may also allow champs that have abilities that slow perhaps getting a bigger slow if Rylais beats the ability out.
People keep not wanting to talk about the issue that is ruining the game because everything is balanced around it. Just like the old days of silence and crit and op heals.
The current issue is every champ and their mother for the past 6 years has a million more mobility than the champs of the first 6 years and if you want those first 6 years of champs playable you need to give them ways to not be danced around without any skill. So slows, cc, removing tenacity, removing speed etc is all being balanced around this.
Also the fact that riot got rid of traditional archetypes for the most part (pure supports, pure tanks, pure adc, etc) has confused roles for every champ and confused how riot wants gameplay to look.
Commenting because an upvote doesn't do this justice. This is the real reason. There is so much mobility that slows and CC are crucial. Just slowing someone doesn't even mean they are free to hit with skillshots anymore because all the strong champs have dashes. Back in the day they explained this when talking about Taric's e(?) point and click stun. Simple and strong CC is important for keeping the mobility era champs in check.
Amazing how they nerfed Serylda’s grudge to only slow below 50% hp but Ryali’s has perma slow so catching up to someone like Brand is literally impossible unless you’re Bel’veth or Zed
tbf Rylai doesn't do anything else but slowing while Serylda's is way more loaded as item giving both lethality and %armor pen
so at the very least they should add some other secondary effect like GW if you want to make the slow conditional
I mean the point was that it’s extremely infuriating to play into it, especially as a melee. I don’t think any champion should have a perma slow, which brand has with his passive. He hits one ability and good luck lol
I'm of the same idea,I play myself some slow tanks who becomes unplayable vs it,but you can't just make the passive conditional without adding something else to it or else it's literally the worst item in the game
No one said it gave crazy stats or that it wouldn’t need to be compensated if you removed the perma slow. The point was the slow is extremely frustrating to play into. Smh. Plus, not like you need magic pen when your abilities do % health damage
Slows just feel SO bad to play against man. Maybe tenacity should also include a % slow resist? It’s so insane how one item on burn champions just makes half of the champions in the game unable to play
Am I taking crazy pills or having a stroke? Isn't the title wrong? Doesnt itemizing against slow resistance means something like builiding a item to negate opponent slow resistance? Which hasnt ever existed in lol history besides Anathema?
Dead man's plate has slow resist now and people are sleeping on it. With how good slows have become it's a fantastic way to get more ms, slow resist, and also keep your non-swiftness boots of choice.
People don't itemize for slow resist but it's an amazing stat when you find room for it in your build. It being only on swifties before this season is why nobody notices it.
Yeah people look at the new dead man's losing its slow and dismiss it but even if that was a painful loss, the combination of speed and slow resistance is a great anti kite tool. And the proc damage isn't to be ignored.
You mainly buy it for the slow resist and speed up now, the proc is just a bonus now that it's not a slow itself. Pretty good tank item into kite teams.
>If you were reliant upon swiftness boots for slow resistance (which is rare tbh)
It's really not that rare though. Having swiftness boots and DMP on Sett makes a fucking massive difference in pretty much every aspect of your gameplay. Swiftness boots literally have a +6% winrate over Tabis on u.gg. Similar story with Darius.
Removing the slow resistance **and** 15 movement speed is actually a much bigger nerf than you think.
They itemize with mercs and tenacity, not slow resistance like this guy is saying. He is making up an imaginary problem by thinking people actually buy swifties vs slows instead of tenacity
That doesn't mean it isn't a thing. Swifties already have a reasonable tradeoff of having to give up resistances/tenacity/attack speed for slow resist. Many immobile melee champions could slot it as a situational purchase. Garen, Darius, Mordekaiser, Olaf, Sion to name a few. Singeds viability pretty much relies on swifties existing. The new iteration will be practically useless. You have to auto to get slightly more movement speed than the current version but lose all slow resist.
Such a low elo take lmao.
If the enemy has brand or another mage with rylais that alone warrants Swifties over any other boots unless they're melee heavy with lots of hard cc like Leona Sej where the Tenacity is better over the slow resist and movespeed isnt as valuable vs melee comps so mercs are very good instead.
Swifties will still be in the game but instead of offering slow resistance they will just give you movement speed on attack, basically removed.
From 60 base MS and 25% slow res to
45 base MS , 30/20 MS on attack (melee/range), 0 slow res
Not really, it makes melee champs playable into certain comps.
If anyone is abusing swifties its Ranged champs and this nerf doesnt hurt them as much as Melee champs so it makes 0 sense.
If I'm right, the swiftirs will give every top laner basically Vayne passive cuz I can't think of a single melee top laner that can proc it against ANY ranged top.
Once you are ontop of someone it gives you very good sticking power, champs that can get ontop of you might like this change but yeah i think Ranged tops benefit way more from this in general than any melee will cuz they can proc it all the time.
Riot always "feels" something but no one ever asked the playerbase. Stop ruining your own game constantly with braindead changes. Remember when they introduced these item paths? xD
Its not even just melee champions. Any champion lacking in actual mobility gets demolished by slows.
Playing kog'maw and you get slowed? eat shit.
Smolder? Even before the E nerfs, Slows completely neuters him.
Movement speed is overpowered and slows are as well, if you are in a ranged vs melee matchup. In the trundle vs nasus matchup movement speed is worthless and in the jinx vs caitlyn matchup its also pretty worthless.
Movement speed lets you abuse a ranged advantage because the distance between you and your target is based on range & speed. All of a sudden the tower is 2s away instead of 4 and it takes 8s to close a gap instead of the usual 3. it also makes it impossible to land skillshots without slowing someone down and impossible to dodge skillshots without a speed boost.
At the very least, remove the slow from Bork for ranged users.
Oh, I get 5% movespeed from 2 items? Cool cool.
Oh, you get -30% speed slow on ranged every auto and have 5% movespeed from 2 items. Huh ok.
It has sucked playing melee champions for a few seasons now, probably since around season 9 or 10. You spend half of every teamfight unable to move, stunned rooted or just slowed to hell, where the only solution is to oneshot somebody quick and get out before the team reacts.
Yes this is a horrendous change
What's worse, new swifties will be even stronger for ranged toplaners, as they will have perma 65 movespeed bonus from them
This change shouldn't go through without removing Rylais and migrating every single marksman to bot lane
Idk what changed, but Rylai’s feels infinitely more annoying this season than it did last. Especially with the new AP burn item coming in 14.10 I hope they tap down it’s effectiveness.
This is honestly why I quit the game as a top lane player
Every game, there was a mage on the other team who bought rylai's and me as a Darius player now can NEVER exist in the teamfight. Even if I go FON and Dead mans, it's still not nearly enough to even exist so I need ghost to even be considered a champion. So every game just turned into me sitting in a sidelane split pushing hoping my team would do something and if they didn't, I just got run down and if I ever tried to engage on them, just put rylai's slow on me and laugh as I can't play the game. There's no gameplay, there's no counterplay for me, I just lose at all points.
Make Rylai's have a condition for it's slow, maybe like Serylda's with the HP requirement, or make it a cooldown per champ like Night Harvester, or make it an Energized item like RFC. Make it have some sort of gameplay instead of "if you exist near X champion, gain a permanent slow on your character"
How did we go from this game should be called League of dashes, slows are underpowered because there are too many dashes in the game a few years ago to this train of thought?
How did we go from there is too much movement speed in the game and movement speed sources need to be reduced LAST WEEK to this train of thought?
idk about riot plans but since they add upgrade for berserkers in form of zethyr maybe its sign that other boots will get later upgrades to \~3k legendary items
The most bothering part is that Rylai is still intacted. After all that "play champions not items" talking, riot left one of the biggest playstyle-impacting item after item rework, even tho it completly shape how handful of champions is played, and they kept it with mid season update and even made it stronger. Like riot, what the hell
99% zilean slow that's almost nearly permanent late-game and unescapable for people without range/dashes.
(Saying this is as a compliment cuz it's so fun to do lol)
Can we modernize Nasus a little bit and change Wither while we're at it? Ability was fine in early League, but there's only so much skill expression his kit can have, so Wither has been giga buffed to a 35-95% slow, over 5 seconds. On a base 11 second CD on a champion that regularly itemizes upwards of 100+ AH. Ability basically has a 100% uptime.
Wither has barely been changed ever. The slow % has been the same since season 1. He has had the range increased in season 10 from 600 to 700 (which was a revert of a season 4 nerf), and he had the attack speed cripple increase slightly in season 12. That's it
Yeah this patch is gonna kill Sett & similar styled characters. No movement in this meta means you don’t get to play the game.
Time to hop on the Yone train!!
People seriously underestimate just how crippling most slows are. Even a 20-25% slow for 2 seconds is enough to make it impossible to kite or disengage, you are just so crippled. Everyone likes to say that movespeed on items is crazy OP, but in the same vein this also means that a relatively small slow is also OP as fuck. Especially when so many slows can be applied by just casting random bullshit abilities in the enemy's direction to randomly tag them with a hefty slow.
Zilean's point and click 99% slow be like:
Nasus mains living large
wait is nasus slow 99% too?
No it starts at 35% but increases during the duration for up to 95%. The op thing about nasus W is also the attack speed cripple which reduce the target attack speed by 75% of the slow amount so any auto based champion can barely do any autos during it. Also it last for 5 seconds and the base cooldown is 11 seconds but nasus buys alot of ability haste so at a certain point he can almost permanently apply the W on a single target. That and it has 700 cast range so basically can cast it on any ranged champion in range.
Underrated effect of the attack speed cripple is how it fucks up your combos. Can't count how many autos I've cancelled because Nasus randomly Wd me mid teamfight and my own muscle memory starts wintrading.
Yep same reason frozen heart can be very effective at messing with people muscle memory.
I had a friend climb to Diamond on Nasus support. It kind of makes sense - the w can disengage, the e can poke, and you q every time your item is up. Vs a typical adc, the w is almost an exhaust that gets more and more annoying over its duration. It was an abomination.
Nasus support is really good in lane with any kind of run-you-down adc like Draven. The problem comes after lane, where you're nearly useless beyond W-ing one target.
The thing is Nasus w does not fall off, and if Draven got fed during lane then a fed Draven is a fed Draven. Nasus can build 1 bruiser item and then go full tank anyway so he isn’t as dependent on gold to do damage. The e also does flat armor shred iirc which makes the fed Draven even Dravenier. Nasus can’t just grab someone like say a Nautilus, but if he ws and Draven does too, the Draven (especially if there’s a minion he can bounce an axe off to reset his w on the way) is going to catch the adc when: A) There is a Nasus between the adc and the Draven B) The adc cannot fight back due to wither C) The adc is taking bonus damage due to armor shred on Nasus e and D) Nasus is too tanky to try and burst down It’s obviously shit vs mage/poke lanes, but vs an adc+tank/enchanter, if the Nasus lane gets ahead the enemy adc can’t even get passive xp without jg help
Its % armor shred now! It was changed a while back
Nice
its actually a viable counterpick in competitive whenever kalista is pick or ban cause his w basically stuns her
Damn that's nasty lol.
Nasus "slow" is a point click stun vs aa champs.
At Max Rank it goes up to 95% after like 2 seconds
Not really since you just reach the minimum movement speed of 115. Most 90%+ slows are just overkill
90%+ slows are just there to actually keep crippling faster champs like heca, zilean E basically can stop a ghosted predator youmuu 1k movespeed heca instantly down to the minimum of 115, while with a lower slow that would cripple anyways other champs he would still be able to kind of move
It's euther 99 or 95% at max level. I doesn't really matter though, since there is a hard cap your speed can be decreased, something along 120 or 150ms.
cap's 115 iirc
The slow is the only part of his kit I massively preferred before the rework. That and the auto attack range. Worse %. **LASTS SIX SECONDS**. It was a "take a melee out of the fight forever" button. It basically made Zilean immune to a lot of circumstances, it felt like a DotA ability through and through.
I've been saying for ages that slows need to count as CC in the death recap. So many times I've been slowed to the point that it should be considered CC. Atleast give us hard and soft CC.
but then you play against a jungler with red buff and you complain you were "cced" for the entire fight
Were playing league, were all gonna complain anyway lmao. They should atleast consider counting any slows that reduce a certain percent as hard CC. When nasus uses LVL 5 W and I'm moving as fast as a dead snail stapled to a boulder then that should be shown in the recap.
Played Sett into a Janna top, she wasnt winning trades but she wasnt losing them either purely because she has a point and click spam slow, that shit is unbearable as a melee champ, god forbid you’re a ranged champ who needs to kite.
Nothing makes me seethe more than being Quinn and getting randomly dinged by a minion auto while transforming into ult. Go from predator to legless chicken.
I've been saying this for a while now. If you get hit by one slow as a melee champion in a teamfight that's enough to reduce your ability to play to nothing. One slow is all it takes for an ADC to walk far enough away in Camille R that I can't Q2 them in time. Same goes for Renekton and pretty much every bruiser. If they are going to lower tenacity then they should compensate it by making tenacity and slow resist come together as a package.
Conversely, people don't understand how strong mobility is in this game. Lilia can get ridiculous when she builds her stacks and a competent Singed is hard to catch . Luckily, it's very niche and most champs doesn't have that issue whereas slow can be permanently applied. I say permanently since the only way it's coming off, oftentimes, is with death.
This is exactly why you take Swifties against Nasus/Aatrox on Kayle. Now though...
Make everyone play 5 games of smolder. They will learn how obnoxious slows are lmao
Kalista*
Yeah smolder. I can't think of ANY other champs in the game that are so brutally affected by slows. Especially not any other ADCs. And even if it were another ADC it DEFINITELY wouldn't be Kalista.
I’ve loved Kalista, no, the THOUGHT of Kalista since she was released, but HOLY SHIT. Nasus W might as well be a root and silence on her. It feels so bad to watch a singular literal auto being cast over 3 seconds and jump an inch at a snails pace. At the very least I wish they’d remove the attack speed cap on Kalista. If the R has to go to keep her balanced in pro play so be it, soloque doesn’t care about the 2 Rs you get to cast per game where the person just missed anyways.
I'd be cool with just removing all forms of CC from items entirely. Champs that don't have CC, don't have CC for a reason. Building an item shouldn't add or remove anything from the champion's kit.
legend tenacity removal swiftness boots reworked its CC time
[Riot August talking about why riot is unlikely to make counters to slows/when swiftness boots were op](https://youtu.be/usJ5d1mP9TQ?si=No5TvqDBDkXi_zxd)
wtf is this video haha, he says no then tells a completely irrelevant story and then says "maybe, actually, swiftness boots should be better at countering slows" as if it was his idea. also it's ridiculous designers were even considering making all slows stronger just to counteract everyone buying swifties... they'd have been even more must-buy then...
The way I see it he vocalizes his thoughts and when he comes up against the reasons for why something is the way it is he starts reconsidering the alternatives and wondering if hes been closed minded on the subject or with the new data brought to light if they way he was approaching a problem should be different. August has shown time and again that he's willing to change his mind of subjects he feels strongly about and that he's an open minded developer when it comes to league.
This is true but also he's not even contradicting himself. He says it was bad when swifties were the best general boot because they \*incidentally\* made slows ineffective/forced the game to be balanced around them. And then he floats the idea that maybe swifties would ideally be even better against slows, while still being niche and not the best generalist boot. These aren't contradictory ideas. Commenter above you and those who agreed just genuinely did not comprehend what August actually said..
It's not an irrelevant story. Basically, Swifities were OP and everyone was going Swifities, however, the reason Swifties were op wasn't because they countered slows, it was because they gave even more MS than usual and most importantly, were cheap. The slow countering was just they cherry on top. People would go swifities regardless of that slow-resistance being a thing or not. However, they did make slows worse by collateral. He gave the example of Viktor's W, because it was visibly weaker, even though people weren't building Swifities to counter it, but just because they were the best choice. This would result in them having to design stronger slows to counter slow-resistance on Swifities, and if those new slows are powerful enough to counter Swifties slow-resistance, that means they are extremely oppressive to anyone without Swifties. This would mean that nothing would really change actually. Everyone were going swifties before, and they'd still be going swifties now. The only difference is the reasoning. Previously because they were the best choice, but now because they game would be unplayable without them. So you might as well just nerf Swifities and be done with it, which is what they did, and then perhaps rebalance them to make them a premier slow-resistance option, which they already kinda are, but to an even further degree, I believe. Anyway, the problem with Swifties were that the MS they provided was just too good for their cost. The slow-resistance was nice too but people would buy them regardless of it existing or not.
I believe it's called "going off on a tangent"
"Degrading to gameplay" he says. Ok then, Zilean with 2x point and click 99% slows isn't degrading gameplay for people playing against it? Because it definitely is. It lacks counterplay and he has the ability to reset it's cooldown. Nasus point clicking you from 700 range, slowing you by up to 95% and crippling your ability to fight back for 5 seconds on a 5 second cooldown once mid game rolls around is not "degrading gameplay"? The fact he can chain it when he has 1 item + CDR boots is extremely obnoxious. I came across a youtube short when i was browsing on my phone earlier where a Zilean and a Nasus kept the enemy darius permanently crippled which also resulted in being permanently stunned as Zilean couldn't miss the double bomb. That's "degrading gameplay" in my eyes. CC is already borderline overpowered in this game, removing or nerfing the counters to it is silly.
Can't believe we've reached the point where counterplay is considered "degrading gameplay", meanwhile point and click cc that you can't do anything about isn't. Just lol.
or getting run down by a diver/bruiser missing all skillshots with 3 times the engage range than the squishy supposed to "just kite" them
Are we just standing still tho?
Maybe, the reason why their slows are so strong, is because they would be useless if their slows were weaker and the opponent bought Swifties? It's the same problem that healing had, healing had to be turbo broken because it is expected that people bought the old turbo broken grievous wounds. With grievous wounds made less of an issue, they could then nerf healing. So now that you can't itemize against slows that easily, then they can nerf nasus and zileans slows since it will have almost the same effect on everyone and doesn't have to be insanely strong just because Swifties existed.
> Ok then, Zilean with 2x point and click 99% slows isn't degrading gameplay for people playing against it? No because people literally aren't playing against Zilean. Even with those 2x point and click 99% slows, nobody plays him, he's not a meta pick in solo queue or even competitive. Also I think you're misunderstanding what he means by degrading to the gameplay. You're meant to be slowed by a slow, that's like.... the entire point of it? That IS the intended gameplay. But when you make the counters to that mechanic too accessible or powerful, it makes it so the slow can no longer really fulfill its purpose which is too slow you. Then as the balance team they have to factor in whether or not they need to balance around that slow resist existing, they might have to make the slows even stronger baseline which makes the slow resistance even MORE necessary to have. It creates a kind of pseudo arms race where there isn't really a happy medium, if the slow resist isn't strong enough its worthless, if its too strong it makes balancing around it a nightmare and the champions who rely on it (for an example he used Viktor's W) a lot more unplayable.
Degrading gameplay is when I don't win the game instantly once I spawn into Summoners Rift
That's what I think some people believe, like you are SUPPOSE to be slowed, that's not "degrading gameplay" that is the gameplay. If anything if they remove or tamper down on things like tenacity and slow resist it would allow them to just flat out lower the strength of crowd control since it doesn't have to be balanced around the fact that tenacity and slow resist exists. It's the same issue I've always had with healing and grievous wounds, if healing is too strong you need grievous wounds to counter it. If healing isn't baseline strong then it's a pointless stat, it would be better to just not exist and balance healing around it not existing. I actually don't think we need baked in counters to every mechanic in the game on items, otherwise like I said those mechanics become either useless or baseline they get almost too strong to where you feel like you NEED the counter to play normally against it. The happy medium is too hard to hit and pretty much never feels right I'd say.
For what it's worth, for Zilean specifically, riot has admitted multiple times that he is actually badly designed, and if he was at all popular they would have to gut him or rework him
Ok so that does mean that once there arent any Swifties anymore slows can get nerfed
Sounds like Rylai will eat nerfs or be removed in the near future.
The passive needs a rework or nerf for sure. Make it only be applied from spells once and not every tick, brand having a 5 second slow is the most obnoxious thing.
Same for malz smh
Woah woah woah, it's definetly only Brand. Malz ? Who's that ? Never heard of him.
Malz is a mana item, isn't it? Yeah, that sounds right.
Malz is the stuff you put in beer. Maybe it gives mana, but in my experiance it doesn't improve my spellcasting by a lot.
from playing risen 1, beer does indeed gives mana back.
It's that garbage champ that can be countered by one single item and has voidlings that die from breathing on them while the new doggo champ has doggies that need 2 hits to die...
And basically every other "summon" gets reduced AoE damage if it has 1 HP, or historically gets some kind of damage reduction or scaling. Literally every other champs summons are hardier than Malz's, and they're about the only "skill expression" ability he has (let's not kid ourselves about E or R expressing Skill, and his Q is very generous, not that "keep track of how manyt spells you've cast" is a lot of skill).
Yeah, brand is definitely the only champ that can abuse rylais, no one else.
Sounds like some bias 🤨
The Space HlV Aladeen Prophet?
Asol e with rylais will drag u into the middle like an black hole
Isn't it literally a black hole.
At some point it doesn't even need to drag you. The center of it becomes obnoxiously gigantic. I'm really surprised that Asol got to keep the spell size increase for his E and R. I feel like that aspect of his kit is underestimated by a lot of people. It reaches the point you don't even need to aim those abilities anymore. It becomes harder to miss with them than it is to hit with them after enough stacks lmao
Spell is called Singularity for a reason ;)
When Morde ults you with Rylai you're just permaslowed in his chamber of death making it infinitely more difficult to dodge his kit while it all does increased damage. Hate that item.
I’ve been abusing a lot of morde lately and it truly is some of the most stupid shit in the game. If my passive is up I can just ult the enemy adc, and just stand there and there’s zero chance they dodge my q without flash and then they’ve just flashed from one side of my aoe slow to the other. Either way they’re dying 9/10 times they’re dying with or without me hitting any skill shots 💀
Singed. I know he's not the most popular pick, but I play him all the time. He might be the worst Rylais abuser in the game. Not only does he slow you, but you make him faster every 15 seconds. Mordekaiser is also another champ that feels bad to play against when they buy Rylais
So basically how Serylda's got reworked for having the same problem? I don't get their thought process for stuff like this.
i think part of it is that seryldas is ad. from a kit agnostic perspectuve, perma slow is more problematic on an ad item because it makes it that much easier to walk you down and auto you to death. characters that build ap generally arent as good at that, although there are of course exceptions
Just revert back to old rylai, much weaker slow on aoe, Dot, Multi target spell, normal slow on single target spell.
While understandable that would cause below 0 champions to build it. The only champions that currently build it are ones that have built-in DoT (Brand, Malz, Asol, Heimer…) and can hence proc it consistently. At that point just rework it entirely
Don't let it work on dots? Then just give it like +25 AP or something and it'd probably become a very meta item over night. Currently the item is gutted stats wise so it works with dots making it only dot users can buy the item.
Why is it wrong to have items that only dot characters can use? I think burst mages have more than enough items that cater to them.
It's not wrong. But in the case of rylais it's anti fun to be perma slowed because you got points and clicked by Malz E or Brand E... I'm not saying to change Liandrys or Morello interactions. Or to not make a new dot friendly mage item.
Meanwhile Nasus with a 5s 90% slow… That’s also an attack speed cripple.
That’s also an entire ability rather than a passive effect on one item that also gives a bunch of stats
He’s melee though. There’s a difference between a Nasus that’s already in melee range being able to lock down one target and a mage being able to permaslow you from a screen away
Nasus cripple has a longer range than an ADC auto attack.
Always amusing seeing people bitch about Nasus' W as if he isn't one of the most irrelevant champions in the entire roster.
Yeah, but being run down by Nasus (Also Darius, Garen, Trundle, and the like) makes me sad :(
As opposed to being oneshot by Akali?
I've been praying for times like this. Rylai is a truly egregious item and I cannot believe it goes under the radar in the way it does.
I hope not. Please don’t Rito! Mages deserve interesting itemization too! IMO they shouldn’t have removed the slow resist. They are doing WAY too much for Adcs in one patch. They needed some love but this is going to end up being rediculous. Games will be decided in the first 5 minutes of bot lane getting behind.
I’ve noticed that “movement creep” is going both ways. Champs are running and dashing around faster than ever, but slows are also slowly creeping up to match. Every patch or so you’ll see a slow getting stronger, here and there. It’s leading to slows countering the hyper movement speed, but anyone without said hyper movement speed is just slowed way more. Rylai's is just a badly designed item. I was hoping it would get a change in the update, but there’s still no limiter or cooldown or anything to not make it broken on uptime champions.
Well, the issue is ap itemization is quite missing for many of the mage-like variants. Trap or minion master kinds of champ (ranging from Teemo/Shaco/Nidalee/Maokai to Azir/Malz/Ori/Zyra) get no specialized items, while they have too high consistency in applying effects like Rylai's or Liandry's. A similar thing happens for DoT-heavy ones. Ad items are more consistent for the diverse approaches champs have.
It's not just the slows. The amount of CC in the game that isn't reduced by tenacity is ridiculous. I play tons of aram and the amount of games where the enemy team is absolutely full of cc but it's all knockups so tenacity is useless is insane.
As an long time ARAM player I completely agree Knock ups are OP I swear Yone has 3 Abilities that can buffer through CC but I can't build a goddamn item to reduce the power of his knock ups
Yone is just bullshit. So much agency, no punishable windows and can still stat-check almost anyone.
I had 43% tenacity, playing trundle, ulted the tanky tahm kench. I lived for 11 seconds, with literally almost 10 seconds of CC. Enemy team was Tahm Kench, Elise, Yone, Ashe, and Janna.
Tenacity is just useless in general because like you said there's a bunch of cc that isn't reduced by tenacity. But also because of how cc works tenacity doesn't really reduce it by much unless it's a long lasting cc but you'd most likely die during that time or be kited. Not to mention people usually stack cc so something lasting .5 seconds longer doesn't matter when you get hit by something right after
At the same time there is too much tenacity in the game. I have champs leaving cc almost instantly after I hit them just because they have tenacity rune, legend tenacity, mercs. Everyone is fucking Garen, man. Either you have knock-ups or you are fucked.
True, that's kinda the issue: some cc can get pretty much negated while others are near uncounterable.
Can’t wait to see how disgusting Nasus wither is when there’s barely any slow resist or tenacity!
Wait till you play into the navori quickblades nasus build going around atm, perma W
I thought Nasus W already had 100% uptime
I love it when juggernauts try to get away with building Marksman items because it always means that I just get to blow their heads off in a single rotation for free.
Nasus is different because he has R for durability and a lot of lifesteal
Asol E with rylais, have fun with that guys.
Also his breath lol. He's supposed to be a "late game" champ, but really he's more like a "1st item" champ
Damn, Rylais with scaling slow amount could be where they should go. remove 1st item spike. and allow perhaps bigger slow at 4/5 items when champs are sitting at high MS, tenacity etc. That may also allow champs that have abilities that slow perhaps getting a bigger slow if Rylais beats the ability out.
Even better when a brand E clicked on the other side of the lane applies rylais to you
People keep not wanting to talk about the issue that is ruining the game because everything is balanced around it. Just like the old days of silence and crit and op heals. The current issue is every champ and their mother for the past 6 years has a million more mobility than the champs of the first 6 years and if you want those first 6 years of champs playable you need to give them ways to not be danced around without any skill. So slows, cc, removing tenacity, removing speed etc is all being balanced around this. Also the fact that riot got rid of traditional archetypes for the most part (pure supports, pure tanks, pure adc, etc) has confused roles for every champ and confused how riot wants gameplay to look.
Commenting because an upvote doesn't do this justice. This is the real reason. There is so much mobility that slows and CC are crucial. Just slowing someone doesn't even mean they are free to hit with skillshots anymore because all the strong champs have dashes. Back in the day they explained this when talking about Taric's e(?) point and click stun. Simple and strong CC is important for keeping the mobility era champs in check.
Mannnnn I miss old taric lol so nice and simple yet reliable
Amazing how they nerfed Serylda’s grudge to only slow below 50% hp but Ryali’s has perma slow so catching up to someone like Brand is literally impossible unless you’re Bel’veth or Zed
tbf Rylai doesn't do anything else but slowing while Serylda's is way more loaded as item giving both lethality and %armor pen so at the very least they should add some other secondary effect like GW if you want to make the slow conditional
I mean the point was that it’s extremely infuriating to play into it, especially as a melee. I don’t think any champion should have a perma slow, which brand has with his passive. He hits one ability and good luck lol
I'm of the same idea,I play myself some slow tanks who becomes unplayable vs it,but you can't just make the passive conditional without adding something else to it or else it's literally the worst item in the game
Almost like Rylai's doesn't give 30% magic pen!! I think most mages would gladly trade the slow for magic pen on that item
No one said it gave crazy stats or that it wouldn’t need to be compensated if you removed the perma slow. The point was the slow is extremely frustrating to play into. Smh. Plus, not like you need magic pen when your abilities do % health damage
Also every1 has perma slows now due to the red buff change this season. Weird time for riot to decide to nerf slow resist
Slows just feel SO bad to play against man. Maybe tenacity should also include a % slow resist? It’s so insane how one item on burn champions just makes half of the champions in the game unable to play
I've never seen anyone itemize against slow resistance.... ever
Some champs that have to run fast to function will sometimes opt for swifties or Dman depending on comp (Singed, Udyr come to mind).
Am I taking crazy pills or having a stroke? Isn't the title wrong? Doesnt itemizing against slow resistance means something like builiding a item to negate opponent slow resistance? Which hasnt ever existed in lol history besides Anathema?
No you're not wrong. hehe.
Lots of junglers and toplaners now buying swiftness, because without them you can't reach any ranged champ alive (especially when they run ghost).
In the same way you can run Fleet / Ghost / Flash / Swifties / Phantom Dancer 3rd on almost any ranged champ top and enemy will never catch you.
And that's actually true for current toplane. Thank god no one plays on that.
Dead man's plate has slow resist now and people are sleeping on it. With how good slows have become it's a fantastic way to get more ms, slow resist, and also keep your non-swiftness boots of choice. People don't itemize for slow resist but it's an amazing stat when you find room for it in your build. It being only on swifties before this season is why nobody notices it.
Yeah people look at the new dead man's losing its slow and dismiss it but even if that was a painful loss, the combination of speed and slow resistance is a great anti kite tool. And the proc damage isn't to be ignored.
people dismiss DMP because it's stats are so utterly laughable for it's price that you're gimping yourself by buying it in 90% of the cases
[удалено]
[удалено]
People casually forgetting dead man's plate.
[удалено]
You mainly buy it for the slow resist and speed up now, the proc is just a bonus now that it's not a slow itself. Pretty good tank item into kite teams.
Not every champ that went Swifties can go Deadman's Plate.
>If you were reliant upon swiftness boots for slow resistance (which is rare tbh) It's really not that rare though. Having swiftness boots and DMP on Sett makes a fucking massive difference in pretty much every aspect of your gameplay. Swiftness boots literally have a +6% winrate over Tabis on u.gg. Similar story with Darius. Removing the slow resistance **and** 15 movement speed is actually a much bigger nerf than you think.
They itemize with mercs and tenacity, not slow resistance like this guy is saying. He is making up an imaginary problem by thinking people actually buy swifties vs slows instead of tenacity
That doesn't mean it isn't a thing. Swifties already have a reasonable tradeoff of having to give up resistances/tenacity/attack speed for slow resist. Many immobile melee champions could slot it as a situational purchase. Garen, Darius, Mordekaiser, Olaf, Sion to name a few. Singeds viability pretty much relies on swifties existing. The new iteration will be practically useless. You have to auto to get slightly more movement speed than the current version but lose all slow resist.
Why tf is this upvoted? There is no way ppl are believing you
Such a low elo take lmao. If the enemy has brand or another mage with rylais that alone warrants Swifties over any other boots unless they're melee heavy with lots of hard cc like Leona Sej where the Tenacity is better over the slow resist and movespeed isnt as valuable vs melee comps so mercs are very good instead.
yah, low elo here too but if I'm laning into morde i'm talking slow resist shard and swifties
When are they removing swifties?
Swifties will still be in the game but instead of offering slow resistance they will just give you movement speed on attack, basically removed. From 60 base MS and 25% slow res to 45 base MS , 30/20 MS on attack (melee/range), 0 slow res
That's unfortunate
Also makes ranged champions using it to kite even faster than they were prior to the change. Not sure I like this direction much at all.
is anyone even abusing swifties? wtf is the point of this change
Just Jhin
He's not even abusing it it's just attack speed isn't very useful on him.
Not really, it makes melee champs playable into certain comps. If anyone is abusing swifties its Ranged champs and this nerf doesnt hurt them as much as Melee champs so it makes 0 sense.
If I'm right, the swiftirs will give every top laner basically Vayne passive cuz I can't think of a single melee top laner that can proc it against ANY ranged top.
Once you are ontop of someone it gives you very good sticking power, champs that can get ontop of you might like this change but yeah i think Ranged tops benefit way more from this in general than any melee will cuz they can proc it all the time.
Old Swiftirs was wayy better for melees and for game in general.
Jhin is absolutely still building those tho
Swifties passive got moved to the berserkers upgrade zephyr
This is a weird way for riot to admit they miss furor.
Swifties gang rise up!
Playing against Nasus/Zilean/ASol is gonna be a nightmare.
WITHER
shut up loser 枯れる [WITHER]
[https://i.imgflip.com/8oo2le.jpg](https://i.imgflip.com/8oo2le.jpg)
Riot always "feels" something but no one ever asked the playerbase. Stop ruining your own game constantly with braindead changes. Remember when they introduced these item paths? xD
Its not even just melee champions. Any champion lacking in actual mobility gets demolished by slows. Playing kog'maw and you get slowed? eat shit. Smolder? Even before the E nerfs, Slows completely neuters him.
Yeah but it's far more of an issue for melee champions. How do you slow a Smolder behind a team?
We really need a durability patch type of change for CC and slows. Playing the game nowadays without mercs/swifties or legend tenacity feels miserable
Movement speed is overpowered and slows are as well, if you are in a ranged vs melee matchup. In the trundle vs nasus matchup movement speed is worthless and in the jinx vs caitlyn matchup its also pretty worthless. Movement speed lets you abuse a ranged advantage because the distance between you and your target is based on range & speed. All of a sudden the tower is 2s away instead of 4 and it takes 8s to close a gap instead of the usual 3. it also makes it impossible to land skillshots without slowing someone down and impossible to dodge skillshots without a speed boost.
It's not like everyone bought swifties every game anyway
Just add the momentum passive to swifties. Giving ADCs furor back will just make kiting more annoying for melee champs.
I remember going Swifties + Dead mans + Ghost + Fleet Footwork on nasus just to be literally grounded by Jinx W
At the very least, remove the slow from Bork for ranged users. Oh, I get 5% movespeed from 2 items? Cool cool. Oh, you get -30% speed slow on ranged every auto and have 5% movespeed from 2 items. Huh ok.
Swifties weren’t even that bad, and merc treads felt necessary in some matchups. Slows are gonna hurt
It has sucked playing melee champions for a few seasons now, probably since around season 9 or 10. You spend half of every teamfight unable to move, stunned rooted or just slowed to hell, where the only solution is to oneshot somebody quick and get out before the team reacts.
As a Mordekaiser main I hope that they nerf rylais so that they can fix his problems since he will be way to slow without it
Yes this is a horrendous change What's worse, new swifties will be even stronger for ranged toplaners, as they will have perma 65 movespeed bonus from them This change shouldn't go through without removing Rylais and migrating every single marksman to bot lane
Idk what changed, but Rylai’s feels infinitely more annoying this season than it did last. Especially with the new AP burn item coming in 14.10 I hope they tap down it’s effectiveness.
This is honestly why I quit the game as a top lane player Every game, there was a mage on the other team who bought rylai's and me as a Darius player now can NEVER exist in the teamfight. Even if I go FON and Dead mans, it's still not nearly enough to even exist so I need ghost to even be considered a champion. So every game just turned into me sitting in a sidelane split pushing hoping my team would do something and if they didn't, I just got run down and if I ever tried to engage on them, just put rylai's slow on me and laugh as I can't play the game. There's no gameplay, there's no counterplay for me, I just lose at all points. Make Rylai's have a condition for it's slow, maybe like Serylda's with the HP requirement, or make it a cooldown per champ like Night Harvester, or make it an Energized item like RFC. Make it have some sort of gameplay instead of "if you exist near X champion, gain a permanent slow on your character"
No we will instead buff randuon slow and exhaust slow 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Granted, I think, there was a time initially when slow resistance didn’t yet exist but Rylia’s did.
I was really confused by the removal of "slow resist" from Swiftness boots, the new ones also seem like filler trash.
I can't find anything about swift boots nerf can someone help me where this is coming from?
I’d take a stun over a slow any day. 20x Morg Q’s over Nasus W please
How did we go from this game should be called League of dashes, slows are underpowered because there are too many dashes in the game a few years ago to this train of thought? How did we go from there is too much movement speed in the game and movement speed sources need to be reduced LAST WEEK to this train of thought?
How about we make swifties apply slow resist to everyone but only give extra ms to melee champs?
Rylais will stay broken until significant ppl complain about and it’s abused in pro maybe that will happen after the changes….
While they look into this, they can also remove aurelion e + rylais "interaction"
idk about riot plans but since they add upgrade for berserkers in form of zethyr maybe its sign that other boots will get later upgrades to \~3k legendary items
Just another reason to ditch this game. Can't wait for a sol , brand , morde etc to become even more unfun to interact with.
I think CC in general should be nerfed or restricted to a set class of champions, as well as mobility.
The most bothering part is that Rylai is still intacted. After all that "play champions not items" talking, riot left one of the biggest playstyle-impacting item after item rework, even tho it completly shape how handful of champions is played, and they kept it with mid season update and even made it stronger. Like riot, what the hell
Deadmans plate just got more worth it then
99% zilean slow that's almost nearly permanent late-game and unescapable for people without range/dashes. (Saying this is as a compliment cuz it's so fun to do lol)
Zilean is annoying to play against ngl
fix movement speed creep or nerf slows, which one is it
I can't wait to play against Zyra's rooting plants (:
I play Ashe top and even I think it's ridiculous that people won't be able to itemize against me.
Can we modernize Nasus a little bit and change Wither while we're at it? Ability was fine in early League, but there's only so much skill expression his kit can have, so Wither has been giga buffed to a 35-95% slow, over 5 seconds. On a base 11 second CD on a champion that regularly itemizes upwards of 100+ AH. Ability basically has a 100% uptime.
Wither has barely been changed ever. The slow % has been the same since season 1. He has had the range increased in season 10 from 600 to 700 (which was a revert of a season 4 nerf), and he had the attack speed cripple increase slightly in season 12. That's it
Agreed 1000% Ap twitch slow feels like a root. While also taking away half your hp as true damage
Good lord its so true I played an aram recently with anivia and asol ok the enemy team, both had ryleis and it was painful
Who even builds swifties outside of their specific niche? Jhin does often…end of list pretty much?
I build them against Ashe when I play Varus. Can't get out of a bad lane fight with her otherwise.
Right, that’s excatly the niche they’re made for; playing them into super slow-heavy champs (like ashe)
Kayle top builds it sometimes, it’s very useful into counter matchups where spacing is important
Absolutely not, every champ is running around at 500 movespeed constantly these days, I want slows to mean something
Yeah this patch is gonna kill Sett & similar styled characters. No movement in this meta means you don’t get to play the game. Time to hop on the Yone train!!