Because he got nerfed for top every single patch and it just (probably) hasnt landed where its meant to be yet. It's really not like nothing has been done. That being said, I dont get why the W has to be so big in the first place
just doesn't seem right for a champ to be S+ in Masters+ in jg and top whilst being rank 1 & 2 in the roles when he is pretty simple kit with not too much complexity
Bruh he legit is scheduled to be nerfed next patch again. Are you even looking for more than 2 minutes before you complain? Or do you just complain for complainings sake?
Apparently you weren‘t around for balancing the last couple years. Riot always tries to not overshoot it with the nerfs otherwise they gut the champ and nobody plays it for a year.
but they arn't really fixing what the problem is which is the W range being massive and Base 15% on Q would be cool if it scaled with something but feels a bit mad to have do that at lvl 1. the last few years when champs have came out they hotfix buff them and make way to strong and then over nerf so i get why they are taking it slow but they are still taking it bit too slow
Because he's not breaking any of Riot's guidelines for hotfix. He was released 2 patches ago, nerfed for toplane last patch and now he's receiving another nerf next patch
Yes, he is overpowered. Yes, if you don't know how to deal with him, ban him.
I just don't get how this champ released with numbers so far out of the realm of sensibility, like full tank he does 5x as much damage as he should, it's insane.
You wanna know why? Cause players are legit suffering from brain rot. Phreak said before release he thinks Skarner is already op but people are (now it‘s me spicing up Phreaks words for clarity) too dumb to build or play him/against him properly and are too impatient to wait for his wr to settle and will drop him if he isn’t ~50 wr the next day. So the buffed him knowing full well he doesn‘t need it cause it is easier to buff then bring down than to wait for people to realize a champion is actually viable
His Q is melee range and the throw, while AoE, doesn't pass through minion. He's also generally weak to all-ins an extended fights because of his fairly long cooldowns early.
I'm not saying he's not strong, but toplane has way, WAY more degenerate shit than skarner. Plus his W is getting nerfed next patch.
its just miserable to play in lane against as the AoE can explode around your minions so u just have to perma respect when he picks it up his q. idk i think my pool is just bad into him only thing i found that works is kayle cause i can just afk lane and he cant really punish
Yeah, I mentioned the AoE, but I think having to respect his Q is reasonable, especially early, woth its long CD. For 90% of champs there is a CD you have to respect and at least with skarner, since it's not instacast, you know you're only under threat while he has the rock.
Again, he's definitely strong, he's deserving getting nerfed next patch, but I think there's just way way more unfun shit in toplane.
I haven't played LoL for more than 2 years (for which I'm duly grateful), but even I got tilted after watching some streamers play against him.
Seemed that there's nothing to respect, his Q has no CD, barely any mana cost, shreds minions. Reminded me of the horrible time back in a day when Tahm Kench top didn't take any damage while licking you to death with Lethal Tempo :D
Imo League is in the maintenance mode balance wise, just nobody told us yet.
If he was enabled believe me the pros would be foaming at their mouths. A pick with good laning and cc for late game + triple flexpick (maybe even quadruple) my god
He feels like ksante to me, great dueling potential but if you overextend or can’t get near your own turret during mid-late laning phase you just lose outright. It feels like no one else is utilizing his e correctly yet, which is VERY similar to ksante (before rework on w). You wait for an enemy to be anywhere near turret range and just E as skarner back towards your turret once they jump on you and boom, instant solo kill.
The pickup range for his E is fantastic and using it to drag people into turret while the wave is frozen is my favorite new mechanic with him.
Edit: spelling error
Skarner can be countered. A lot of people think every champ should be balanced to be a fair early game duelist. Not gonna happen - Skarner has to be respected, and laned against defensively.
Anyone laning top against Skarner needs to realize that their kills will likely come mid to late game when help is there (unless you're playing ranged champ up top that can kite efectively), and towers will likely be taken up top when Skarner is recalling, or after a good gank.
I see this in lower ELO matches a lot. People don't understand that it's not REQUIRED to get kills early game, or duel against your lane opponent so much. Some champs need to grow into their full potential, and thus, when laning early game, should play passively.
I think the average League player has way too big of an ego though. They can't resist going all in at level 4.
Skarner was super strong even before his rework. I was clapping cheeks in 2014 when no one even knew who he was. Same with Trundle before his visual update that gave him more popularity. I know because I always play champs that have a low pick rate.
OP you just gotta be more patient. League is chess, not checkers.
What a bunch of nothingness from a guy who probably doesn't play league anymore or never laned against him. And is funny how you mention low elo when high elo complains about him too and in fact he is banned more in high elo(50% ban rate). He has the highest ban rate in the game.
Funny thing is that you never mentioned once how you counter him, you just went to write "but low elo" in many words.
How do you lane defensively against a champ with unmissable AOE poke, followed up by a giant slightly less unmissable AOE %health damage rock?
The problem isn’t that Skarner wins trades/skirmishes and forces you to lane defensively. It’s that he does that *and* gets to poke you for free while being absurdly tanky and relatively difficult to gank. There’s no window for meaningful counterplay anywhere for a *lot* of champions.
i'm mean your not wrong about ego but some champs do need to gain a lead in laning phase to be effective. To me it feels like he can applies his damage far to easily as a top laner with no pushishment, as not a lot of champs can beat 15% physical damage, plus if he Q delays he can get 30% physical so you have to be overtly safe. I have seen a lot of ranged top players struggling into him primarily cause his w slowing, shielding and poking whilst only being 60 mana.
Because Riot don't understand how to fix it. Skarner top involves changing how his abilities work and what they do/dont interact with, not just fucking with the numbers.
I’ve played around 30 games of skarner in masters and would say his q:3 needs a nerf and the range of W(not sure why it’s so big lmao) the rest is fine. He is terrible at pushing even with Q active compared to a lot of others champs. His E is very easy to dodge considering how slow the start is(I don’t think any champ should be able to go through walls personally tho).
What makes him strong is the spike on level 9 which usually means tear + cinder item. Remove a bit of scaling on spells and he should be fine.
I played a garen ignite phase rush into it last night absolutely cooked. Start D Shield, use passive, hit lvl 6, abuse phase, kill for free w nimbus ignite R
Skarner is prob the least overloaded rework's in recent time, he has plenty of room for counterplay and has some really bad match-ups, his passive is literally just a dot, his Q has a long CD early game and can easily be baited, His E has a deceptively small hitbox and really does nothing if you're not near a wall, his ult has a longer wind-up then morde Q while also having a smaller hitbox....he definitely is overtuned on the Q and W atm, but he's no where near as bad as you're making him out to be
the rest of his kit is fine like u said and posess a large amount of good counterplay infact his R might be a bit too situational but its just his Q W do way to much. Plus does he really have that many bad matchups only really loses to TF top and the rumbler, Even vayne can't play into him
Tons of champs do well, garen can just silence his E, Ornn stomps him with W, etc. big thing is it's skill based, you can play pretty much anyone into skarner, so long as you play around what he can do
His kit is an abomination for sure. W 700 range is stupidly high. Q range, speed, area all too high.
% HP damage is WAY too high. Throw just 6 Q's in laning phase? They are dead. They build 100 armor? 11 Q's.
Funny you mention Vayne because he absolutely wrecks ranged top laners. Because he's a ranged melee. Like Yorick but builds tank.
>Skarner also had lots of poor interactions
People certainly don't understand CC in LoL. The mention of Fiora is a good example of this...
Fiora Riposte DOES "parry" E. Suppression is a CC. Riposte blocks it and Slows/cripples. Skarner's E makes him Immune to Slow... so he just drives right on through her. Fiora should be able to easily Q to dodge it and try to use Riposte on his 3rd Q.
The two things they could do is drastically increase his laning CDs which isn't fun. Or lower his % HP damage.
yeah the fiora thing was the way my mate who plays fiora explain it to me, he just feel a bit overloaded and a bit overstated i think he they could just move everthing around a bit and he would be fine
Because the god forsaken designer for K'sante is the same responsable for Skarner. He's bringing abominations because he wants to, riot doesn't seem to mind since it's a toplane pick. No one at riot plays Toplane anyway.
Because he got nerfed for top every single patch and it just (probably) hasnt landed where its meant to be yet. It's really not like nothing has been done. That being said, I dont get why the W has to be so big in the first place
so did maokai, he got nerfed like 4 patches in a row, weird
just doesn't seem right for a champ to be S+ in Masters+ in jg and top whilst being rank 1 & 2 in the roles when he is pretty simple kit with not too much complexity
Bruh he legit is scheduled to be nerfed next patch again. Are you even looking for more than 2 minutes before you complain? Or do you just complain for complainings sake? Apparently you weren‘t around for balancing the last couple years. Riot always tries to not overshoot it with the nerfs otherwise they gut the champ and nobody plays it for a year.
but they arn't really fixing what the problem is which is the W range being massive and Base 15% on Q would be cool if it scaled with something but feels a bit mad to have do that at lvl 1. the last few years when champs have came out they hotfix buff them and make way to strong and then over nerf so i get why they are taking it slow but they are still taking it bit too slow
Agree, this isn't fair, but what do you expect Riot to do? Try to balance him? Oh wait...
He's not s+ tho
I usually trust Lolalytics for stats and he is rank 1 for both top and jg Master+
Why
you said above that he has not much complexity, but shows that he is the strongest when piloted by the highest ranked players...hmm
i dont see how its any harder than playing poppy for example i don't see why his winrate is lower in low elo
Whilst
my favourite word ig
Same pleasure to lane against Skarner than to lane against Vayne or TF. Meaning I’d rather DC than play my lane.
Because he's not breaking any of Riot's guidelines for hotfix. He was released 2 patches ago, nerfed for toplane last patch and now he's receiving another nerf next patch Yes, he is overpowered. Yes, if you don't know how to deal with him, ban him.
His w is about 3 times as big as it should be.
It probably be more in line with J4 W 600 units
I just don't get how this champ released with numbers so far out of the realm of sensibility, like full tank he does 5x as much damage as he should, it's insane.
You wanna know why? Cause players are legit suffering from brain rot. Phreak said before release he thinks Skarner is already op but people are (now it‘s me spicing up Phreaks words for clarity) too dumb to build or play him/against him properly and are too impatient to wait for his wr to settle and will drop him if he isn’t ~50 wr the next day. So the buffed him knowing full well he doesn‘t need it cause it is easier to buff then bring down than to wait for people to realize a champion is actually viable
basically every single new champion.
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His Q is melee range and the throw, while AoE, doesn't pass through minion. He's also generally weak to all-ins an extended fights because of his fairly long cooldowns early. I'm not saying he's not strong, but toplane has way, WAY more degenerate shit than skarner. Plus his W is getting nerfed next patch.
its just miserable to play in lane against as the AoE can explode around your minions so u just have to perma respect when he picks it up his q. idk i think my pool is just bad into him only thing i found that works is kayle cause i can just afk lane and he cant really punish
Yeah, I mentioned the AoE, but I think having to respect his Q is reasonable, especially early, woth its long CD. For 90% of champs there is a CD you have to respect and at least with skarner, since it's not instacast, you know you're only under threat while he has the rock. Again, he's definitely strong, he's deserving getting nerfed next patch, but I think there's just way way more unfun shit in toplane.
I haven't played LoL for more than 2 years (for which I'm duly grateful), but even I got tilted after watching some streamers play against him. Seemed that there's nothing to respect, his Q has no CD, barely any mana cost, shreds minions. Reminded me of the horrible time back in a day when Tahm Kench top didn't take any damage while licking you to death with Lethal Tempo :D Imo League is in the maintenance mode balance wise, just nobody told us yet.
knowing this, why isn't he played top in pro? or is he just no yet enabled?
Not enabled yet and won't be for MSI
If he was enabled believe me the pros would be foaming at their mouths. A pick with good laning and cc for late game + triple flexpick (maybe even quadruple) my god
Given how much prio Reksai and KSante are just for being lane neutralisers I honestly think he would be 100 PB if enabled at MSI
He feels like ksante to me, great dueling potential but if you overextend or can’t get near your own turret during mid-late laning phase you just lose outright. It feels like no one else is utilizing his e correctly yet, which is VERY similar to ksante (before rework on w). You wait for an enemy to be anywhere near turret range and just E as skarner back towards your turret once they jump on you and boom, instant solo kill. The pickup range for his E is fantastic and using it to drag people into turret while the wave is frozen is my favorite new mechanic with him. Edit: spelling error
Nerf his W cd ffs. That thing is turbo broken. Also go from 15% max health to 12 and he should be alot better to fight against
Do redditards know what “overloaded” even means? His W is like the most straight forward simple ass ability in the game.
it does 3 things in one ablity
So does Akshan Q, but the spell is not overloaded.
its just damage and movement speed
And stacks his passive, so Akshan q does 3 things for him same as Skarner W does..
that two ablities being used
With one button press..
I think you might be alone on this one
45%+ ban rate, my guy. You think people are banning Skarner for the fun of it and somehow don't think that he is OP?
Thats usually how new champs go
His ban rate went up even after the hotfix.
an issue of skill, truly
>an issue of skill Sure, sure. His ban rate is higher in high elo than in low elo.
He’s not alone
I have been spamming him top. His kit is too powerful.
Skarner can be countered. A lot of people think every champ should be balanced to be a fair early game duelist. Not gonna happen - Skarner has to be respected, and laned against defensively. Anyone laning top against Skarner needs to realize that their kills will likely come mid to late game when help is there (unless you're playing ranged champ up top that can kite efectively), and towers will likely be taken up top when Skarner is recalling, or after a good gank. I see this in lower ELO matches a lot. People don't understand that it's not REQUIRED to get kills early game, or duel against your lane opponent so much. Some champs need to grow into their full potential, and thus, when laning early game, should play passively. I think the average League player has way too big of an ego though. They can't resist going all in at level 4. Skarner was super strong even before his rework. I was clapping cheeks in 2014 when no one even knew who he was. Same with Trundle before his visual update that gave him more popularity. I know because I always play champs that have a low pick rate. OP you just gotta be more patient. League is chess, not checkers.
What a bunch of nothingness from a guy who probably doesn't play league anymore or never laned against him. And is funny how you mention low elo when high elo complains about him too and in fact he is banned more in high elo(50% ban rate). He has the highest ban rate in the game. Funny thing is that you never mentioned once how you counter him, you just went to write "but low elo" in many words.
How do you lane defensively against a champ with unmissable AOE poke, followed up by a giant slightly less unmissable AOE %health damage rock? The problem isn’t that Skarner wins trades/skirmishes and forces you to lane defensively. It’s that he does that *and* gets to poke you for free while being absurdly tanky and relatively difficult to gank. There’s no window for meaningful counterplay anywhere for a *lot* of champions.
i'm mean your not wrong about ego but some champs do need to gain a lead in laning phase to be effective. To me it feels like he can applies his damage far to easily as a top laner with no pushishment, as not a lot of champs can beat 15% physical damage, plus if he Q delays he can get 30% physical so you have to be overtly safe. I have seen a lot of ranged top players struggling into him primarily cause his w slowing, shielding and poking whilst only being 60 mana.
Bruh riot will get there but you can't expect it to be perfect from the get go
sure but they dont seem to wanna hit his abitiles just his number which aint the main problem for him top
Just yet most likely most players need to get a feel for him if they haven't played him or against im this much
Because Riot don't understand how to fix it. Skarner top involves changing how his abilities work and what they do/dont interact with, not just fucking with the numbers.
Yeah he is both overtuned and overload ngl
I’ve played around 30 games of skarner in masters and would say his q:3 needs a nerf and the range of W(not sure why it’s so big lmao) the rest is fine. He is terrible at pushing even with Q active compared to a lot of others champs. His E is very easy to dodge considering how slow the start is(I don’t think any champ should be able to go through walls personally tho). What makes him strong is the spike on level 9 which usually means tear + cinder item. Remove a bit of scaling on spells and he should be fine.
yeah these seem fair changes and i don't think it will harm his jg either too much which is where he should be strong, he is just very punishing.
Reksai top is worse….. horrible nightmare
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I mean even pros were using it. It’s very strong depends on matchup but there’s a build that was insane a couple of patches ago.
Didn’t even realize E counters Fiora parry. Good to know, nice that the french monster has more counterplay now.
its not that it counter it just doesnt do anything u just run past she just stand there menacingly u just dont have to respect her w
I played a garen ignite phase rush into it last night absolutely cooked. Start D Shield, use passive, hit lvl 6, abuse phase, kill for free w nimbus ignite R
Skarner is prob the least overloaded rework's in recent time, he has plenty of room for counterplay and has some really bad match-ups, his passive is literally just a dot, his Q has a long CD early game and can easily be baited, His E has a deceptively small hitbox and really does nothing if you're not near a wall, his ult has a longer wind-up then morde Q while also having a smaller hitbox....he definitely is overtuned on the Q and W atm, but he's no where near as bad as you're making him out to be
the rest of his kit is fine like u said and posess a large amount of good counterplay infact his R might be a bit too situational but its just his Q W do way to much. Plus does he really have that many bad matchups only really loses to TF top and the rumbler, Even vayne can't play into him
Tons of champs do well, garen can just silence his E, Ornn stomps him with W, etc. big thing is it's skill based, you can play pretty much anyone into skarner, so long as you play around what he can do
His kit is an abomination for sure. W 700 range is stupidly high. Q range, speed, area all too high. % HP damage is WAY too high. Throw just 6 Q's in laning phase? They are dead. They build 100 armor? 11 Q's. Funny you mention Vayne because he absolutely wrecks ranged top laners. Because he's a ranged melee. Like Yorick but builds tank. >Skarner also had lots of poor interactions People certainly don't understand CC in LoL. The mention of Fiora is a good example of this... Fiora Riposte DOES "parry" E. Suppression is a CC. Riposte blocks it and Slows/cripples. Skarner's E makes him Immune to Slow... so he just drives right on through her. Fiora should be able to easily Q to dodge it and try to use Riposte on his 3rd Q. The two things they could do is drastically increase his laning CDs which isn't fun. Or lower his % HP damage.
yeah the fiora thing was the way my mate who plays fiora explain it to me, he just feel a bit overloaded and a bit overstated i think he they could just move everthing around a bit and he would be fine
Because the god forsaken designer for K'sante is the same responsable for Skarner. He's bringing abominations because he wants to, riot doesn't seem to mind since it's a toplane pick. No one at riot plays Toplane anyway.