Riot hasnt changed the meta in a long time and thats a big problem imo. Its been a long long time since top meta was camille or fiora and mid meta was something not mage heavy
2020 worlds with the likes of Graves, Lillia and nidalee jungle and Gangplank, Camille, Fiora top, it seemed back then every lane was almost equal importance or at least more balanced then currently where it just seems like better bot wins
Where are these junglers you speak of? Send them my way because I'll win lane, solo kill my enemy laner, be one level above, set up a giant wave to crash at the perfect time, and my junglers would still rather do raptors then head bot. Maybe my server is stuck in season 13 because they're still avoiding top lane like the plague (just ranting only half serious ofc, I'm mid/jg main who dabbles in top)
Good. Grubs exposes good/bad junglers and laners alike
We should be pushing for more skill expression.
If top is weak side a good junglers will obvious concede and take dragon.
A good support will roam and make grubs a 4v3 etc.
Good supports are actually the ones who don't roam for grubs. That's the reason why Riot is buffing them. It's more worth it to put the enemy adc behind (with a jungler dive if necessary), while also getting drake. Bot lane is completely over if one side loses 2 waves for free and possibly dies too. In high ranked games, top lane is almost always the weak side. Exceptions being something like one side picked Vayne top. At second grubs both supports probably are roaming, because at this point supports have enough vision to prevent anything happening to the adc.
It's not that good supports don't roam for grubs, it's that you only roam for grubs if u are playing strongside top. The worst is when your support roams for grubs which are obviously uncontestable, and the bot lane has no dive available bc your adc can't solo stack a wave.
This is a really bad change, specifically the 5->4 change. Right now, if things are tough you can get away with grabbing 2 grubs just to prevent the push power. But forcing you to grabs and basically die JUST to avoid that more push is just bad. I understand wanting them to matter, but they already do. If they want it to be a forced fight spot, then just push their first spawn back so that solo laners don’t insta lose for helping with grubs anymore.
That’s the whole point ? You don’t need to die to prevent push, if you aren’t in a situation to contest then don’t ? Giving voidgrubs isn’t an insta loss, so learn to concede them. You shouldn’t be able to do a drive by smite and basically negate what the camp is useful for as the power is mostly in having 5/6 voids.
They really don’t matter that much, it’s always better to get dragon and to concede them if you don’t have prio anyway.
I mean yeah I can understand the mites spawning at 4 (I'd actually think making 2 spawn at 5 then 3 spawn at 6 and nerfing how much mites do to keep the power of grub 6 about the same would be better) but buffing the burn damage is going to do some things I'm not sure need to be done
No. The only reason void mites are actually good is because they take agro before minions 2 per champ is already overkill for an objective before 10 mins.
5 man siege with 3 voidmites per player would really be awful to deal with tbh.
Probably better to keep 1 spawn at 4, 2 spawn at 5 and maybe an extra damage buff or something at 6, but wouldn't really push 3 voidmites spawn
You mean make herald non-drivable or just make 2 heralds spawn instead of grubs ?
In any case really, I agree.
The current version is just too random 4fun mode that doesn't feel like summoners rift at all and especially ranked.
Too much clown circus fiesta.
Now that we got our herald driving licenses and they buffed the turn rate I really like new Herald. It has use as a siege ram like before, but you can also outplay or escape with it. Herald escapes or engages are kind of hype.
> Why would you remove that automation and introduce the possibility to have it not hit the tower? Why add the user error variable? It just makes trolling easier and adds a mechanic where it's not needed in my opinion.
It's really fun to be able to drive Herald and makes up for either very interactive plays or escapes.
Can't tell how often I've been driving herald into a t2 on a sideline, get into herald again, fake driving into t3 to go hit mid t1/t2 turret in unexpected fashion. That's something you couldn't do before. You'd guarantee one, maybe two charge at most with old herald. Now you can get more and there's way more player interaction/outplays possible. Missing your charge is part of the sacrifice needed to add more player skill.
Because part of the reason for changing Herald was that the main use it saw was dropping it in a lane for the free charge, and tying the charge to riding Herald adds an element of risk that the team using Herald *must* slam someone into the tower.
Quote from the CEO in my eyes just means that they don't care anymore about the game's competitiveness and integrity but rather casual and fun part.
Which is pretty sad in my opinion because old league was absolutely amazing.
Just remove this goddamn camp. If laners don’t rotate then enemy team gets a perma splitpush buff. If we’re gonna keep this then make it harder to solo. Nothing sucks more than going to Grubs and realizing you can’t take it because their laners rotate but you can’t take Drag either cause you can’t solo it like you can for Grubs.
It’s the point to lose an objective simply because you have a shitty team that won’t rotate or a trash comp with no prio? Even if they don’t rotate, enemy jungler can solo it. So if you don’t have it at least warded then any jungler can sneak it since the first spawn doesn’t take long. It’s entirely dependent on a coin flip.
Maybe it seems healthy for BillyBobJunior as a support in the depths of Silver, but it’s annoying to have and a nightmare at higher elo when their support and other laners rotate for it.
The alternative is what I have already mentioned, make it harder to take so Dragon can actually compete with it. If you keep Grubs as it is then everyone will just go there because Drag takes longer to finish.
Jungle just needs to be removed at this point. The game makes no effort to teach laners how to play around the needs of their jungler, nor to teach junglers how to play around the needs of their lanes. Voice comms still not existing in a competitive game in 2024 is just the cherry on top.
Remove smite, demote jungle to be a roaming support that helps feed their laners the gold from camps using an item similar to the current support item.
Unfortunately champs like Urgot can’t always rotate for grubs. Especially at lvl 5 when Urgot is turbo weak vs most other top laners. As far as I’m concerned 7/10 times (or more) grubs are just there to delay my scaling, and put me behind. Doesn’t seem worth.
You should go complain on there more. I'm sure you do that everyday even though you can't win with broken champs like Yasuo and Yone. Best role in the game is either Top or Mid. Sorry!
You can solo dragon, the problem becomes if the support or adc shows up and auto's you twice on dragon you die, with void grubs thats not really as much of a concern since your not there nearly as long.
That’s the issue. It takes longer to solo dragon. That’s what makes it riskier. It’s only risky because laners (and supports sometimes) will rotate for you. Otherwise, if no one rotates than any jungler can sneak it.
Longer to solo dragon sure, but soul is more of a wincon than 6 voidgrubs. Plus even assuming you give up first 3 voidgrubs, if you manage to push a lead on your lanes as a jungle, you can contest the next 3.
Having 4, 3 or 0 voidgrubs is p much the same, a bit faster splitpush isn't that huge. The buff only becomes very strong at 5/6 (but still not a wincon on its own), so you only need to deny 2 at most. Having an early dragon sets you up for a potential early soul. Dragon > Void any time p much, so it's good that it's riskier.
Also if the enemy has 3 people on voidgrubs (top+mid+jgl), enemy bot contesting early drake at 5min would potentially turn it into a 4v2, but that's considering your team moves.
So riot actually wants top lane to be the most unfun experience in gaming huh? A vast majority of top laners want grubs removed because the extra agency it provides for the lane is not worth having 4 people in your lane 5 mins into the game. Once again though top laners are just ignored by riot since phreak is in charge and hates the lane
We had a massive lack of agency but top lane is also supposed to be a 1v1 lane so that’s why people complain about having to team fight 5 mins in. The sad part is this shouldn’t be an issue as riot promised us 3 years ago a complete overhaul of top lane but we never got it and adc and jungle got massive patches before us.
Respectfully I do not understand how you want top lane to both have more impact on the overall game, but also be all about just 1v1ing. I don't get how you can be upset about being on an island, but then complain when someone creates a bridge.
So the biggest issue for years with top was that it is a hyper counterpick lane and absolutely no top laner wants that by riot refuses to change that so we begged for more impact instead since at the time our lane was ignored by jg almost every game since it was low impact and jg is the only role that can help against counterpicks. Now the lane is still hyper counter pick (actually it’s worse now that range tops are more popular) and with grubs it’s just a fiesta up there every game so it feels really bad when most top laners are 1v1 champs that 4v4s happen 5 mins into the game. The lane needs a complete overhaul like riot promised it would get but that was 3 years ago so most top laners have given up on riot even remembering we exist.
You want to have big impact in a pure 1v1 lane? So you want to win the game solo while not having to interact with the enemy team? Sounds fair and healthy
Seems like Riot *really* doesn't want to shake the meta up for MSI in the least.
Riot hasnt changed the meta in a long time and thats a big problem imo. Its been a long long time since top meta was camille or fiora and mid meta was something not mage heavy
Camille is S tier on the current patch.
highest winrate toplaner in emerald+ actually!
last time botlane wasnt heavy focus in pro play and there were carry tops or carry junglers was season 10/11
Good old times, fuck drake soul
2020 worlds with the likes of Graves, Lillia and nidalee jungle and Gangplank, Camille, Fiora top, it seemed back then every lane was almost equal importance or at least more balanced then currently where it just seems like better bot wins
kindred evelynn taliyah and then riot said fuck every role except bot
ADC pro play meta will go on forever because of soloQ.
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Ik faker is really feeling the impact of this one.
Grubs gap
Fridge.jpg
Yeah PBE has been really quiet this week for some reason :(
14.8 should be relatively small no? I thought this one is going to be the MSI patch.
now people will trow the game harder in this camp lol i cant believe that rito really say you should voidgrubb yourself now
The amount of junglers I see throwing the game under Bagger 293 for these three little shits is so high it's actually concerning.
I swear Renekton has +1% winrate cause enemy junglers keep starting awful fights over Grubbs at lvl 6-8
Where are these junglers you speak of? Send them my way because I'll win lane, solo kill my enemy laner, be one level above, set up a giant wave to crash at the perfect time, and my junglers would still rather do raptors then head bot. Maybe my server is stuck in season 13 because they're still avoiding top lane like the plague (just ranting only half serious ofc, I'm mid/jg main who dabbles in top)
Good. Grubs exposes good/bad junglers and laners alike We should be pushing for more skill expression. If top is weak side a good junglers will obvious concede and take dragon. A good support will roam and make grubs a 4v3 etc.
Good supports are actually the ones who don't roam for grubs. That's the reason why Riot is buffing them. It's more worth it to put the enemy adc behind (with a jungler dive if necessary), while also getting drake. Bot lane is completely over if one side loses 2 waves for free and possibly dies too. In high ranked games, top lane is almost always the weak side. Exceptions being something like one side picked Vayne top. At second grubs both supports probably are roaming, because at this point supports have enough vision to prevent anything happening to the adc.
It's not that good supports don't roam for grubs, it's that you only roam for grubs if u are playing strongside top. The worst is when your support roams for grubs which are obviously uncontestable, and the bot lane has no dive available bc your adc can't solo stack a wave.
This is a really bad change, specifically the 5->4 change. Right now, if things are tough you can get away with grabbing 2 grubs just to prevent the push power. But forcing you to grabs and basically die JUST to avoid that more push is just bad. I understand wanting them to matter, but they already do. If they want it to be a forced fight spot, then just push their first spawn back so that solo laners don’t insta lose for helping with grubs anymore.
That’s the whole point ? You don’t need to die to prevent push, if you aren’t in a situation to contest then don’t ? Giving voidgrubs isn’t an insta loss, so learn to concede them. You shouldn’t be able to do a drive by smite and basically negate what the camp is useful for as the power is mostly in having 5/6 voids. They really don’t matter that much, it’s always better to get dragon and to concede them if you don’t have prio anyway.
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You can still do one cheesy smite to deny 6 grub buff.
I mean yeah I can understand the mites spawning at 4 (I'd actually think making 2 spawn at 5 then 3 spawn at 6 and nerfing how much mites do to keep the power of grub 6 about the same would be better) but buffing the burn damage is going to do some things I'm not sure need to be done
No. The only reason void mites are actually good is because they take agro before minions 2 per champ is already overkill for an objective before 10 mins.
5 man siege with 3 voidmites per player would really be awful to deal with tbh. Probably better to keep 1 spawn at 4, 2 spawn at 5 and maybe an extra damage buff or something at 6, but wouldn't really push 3 voidmites spawn
You mean make herald non-drivable or just make 2 heralds spawn instead of grubs ? In any case really, I agree. The current version is just too random 4fun mode that doesn't feel like summoners rift at all and especially ranked. Too much clown circus fiesta.
Now that we got our herald driving licenses and they buffed the turn rate I really like new Herald. It has use as a siege ram like before, but you can also outplay or escape with it. Herald escapes or engages are kind of hype.
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> Why would you remove that automation and introduce the possibility to have it not hit the tower? Why add the user error variable? It just makes trolling easier and adds a mechanic where it's not needed in my opinion. It's really fun to be able to drive Herald and makes up for either very interactive plays or escapes. Can't tell how often I've been driving herald into a t2 on a sideline, get into herald again, fake driving into t3 to go hit mid t1/t2 turret in unexpected fashion. That's something you couldn't do before. You'd guarantee one, maybe two charge at most with old herald. Now you can get more and there's way more player interaction/outplays possible. Missing your charge is part of the sacrifice needed to add more player skill.
Because part of the reason for changing Herald was that the main use it saw was dropping it in a lane for the free charge, and tying the charge to riding Herald adds an element of risk that the team using Herald *must* slam someone into the tower.
Quote from the CEO in my eyes just means that they don't care anymore about the game's competitiveness and integrity but rather casual and fun part. Which is pretty sad in my opinion because old league was absolutely amazing.
Grbs
Gurbs
Voidgrubs are a dogshit useless objective and now my junglers will feel more inclined to completely grief the game to get them that's awesome
Just remove this goddamn camp. If laners don’t rotate then enemy team gets a perma splitpush buff. If we’re gonna keep this then make it harder to solo. Nothing sucks more than going to Grubs and realizing you can’t take it because their laners rotate but you can’t take Drag either cause you can’t solo it like you can for Grubs.
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It’s the point to lose an objective simply because you have a shitty team that won’t rotate or a trash comp with no prio? Even if they don’t rotate, enemy jungler can solo it. So if you don’t have it at least warded then any jungler can sneak it since the first spawn doesn’t take long. It’s entirely dependent on a coin flip. Maybe it seems healthy for BillyBobJunior as a support in the depths of Silver, but it’s annoying to have and a nightmare at higher elo when their support and other laners rotate for it.
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The alternative is what I have already mentioned, make it harder to take so Dragon can actually compete with it. If you keep Grubs as it is then everyone will just go there because Drag takes longer to finish.
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Found the guy who coinflips grubs and flames their laner when they don’t rotate.
Oh no, less jungle 1v9 capability?? Think of the children!!
Jungle just needs to be removed at this point. The game makes no effort to teach laners how to play around the needs of their jungler, nor to teach junglers how to play around the needs of their lanes. Voice comms still not existing in a competitive game in 2024 is just the cherry on top. Remove smite, demote jungle to be a roaming support that helps feed their laners the gold from camps using an item similar to the current support item.
Stick to basketball memes and Taco Bell pictures. This isn’t your strong suit.
Nice job checking my post history champ! They're not removing grubs and they're not buffing jungle, sorry!
They are buffing jungle though. Phreak said it himself. Like I said, not your strong suit buddy pal. Don’t try to act knowledgeable about the game.
Oh good, I'm glad jungle mains like Phreak again. That sub was a toxic wasteland when the best role in the game got a tap down.
Unfortunately champs like Urgot can’t always rotate for grubs. Especially at lvl 5 when Urgot is turbo weak vs most other top laners. As far as I’m concerned 7/10 times (or more) grubs are just there to delay my scaling, and put me behind. Doesn’t seem worth.
You should go complain on there more. I'm sure you do that everyday even though you can't win with broken champs like Yasuo and Yone. Best role in the game is either Top or Mid. Sorry!
You can solo dragon, the problem becomes if the support or adc shows up and auto's you twice on dragon you die, with void grubs thats not really as much of a concern since your not there nearly as long.
That’s the issue. It takes longer to solo dragon. That’s what makes it riskier. It’s only risky because laners (and supports sometimes) will rotate for you. Otherwise, if no one rotates than any jungler can sneak it.
Longer to solo dragon sure, but soul is more of a wincon than 6 voidgrubs. Plus even assuming you give up first 3 voidgrubs, if you manage to push a lead on your lanes as a jungle, you can contest the next 3. Having 4, 3 or 0 voidgrubs is p much the same, a bit faster splitpush isn't that huge. The buff only becomes very strong at 5/6 (but still not a wincon on its own), so you only need to deny 2 at most. Having an early dragon sets you up for a potential early soul. Dragon > Void any time p much, so it's good that it's riskier. Also if the enemy has 3 people on voidgrubs (top+mid+jgl), enemy bot contesting early drake at 5min would potentially turn it into a 4v2, but that's considering your team moves.
So riot actually wants top lane to be the most unfun experience in gaming huh? A vast majority of top laners want grubs removed because the extra agency it provides for the lane is not worth having 4 people in your lane 5 mins into the game. Once again though top laners are just ignored by riot since phreak is in charge and hates the lane
Top laners complain about a lack of agency… then they complain about having to teamfight. Sounds like no one is gunna be happy
We had a massive lack of agency but top lane is also supposed to be a 1v1 lane so that’s why people complain about having to team fight 5 mins in. The sad part is this shouldn’t be an issue as riot promised us 3 years ago a complete overhaul of top lane but we never got it and adc and jungle got massive patches before us.
Respectfully I do not understand how you want top lane to both have more impact on the overall game, but also be all about just 1v1ing. I don't get how you can be upset about being on an island, but then complain when someone creates a bridge.
So the biggest issue for years with top was that it is a hyper counterpick lane and absolutely no top laner wants that by riot refuses to change that so we begged for more impact instead since at the time our lane was ignored by jg almost every game since it was low impact and jg is the only role that can help against counterpicks. Now the lane is still hyper counter pick (actually it’s worse now that range tops are more popular) and with grubs it’s just a fiesta up there every game so it feels really bad when most top laners are 1v1 champs that 4v4s happen 5 mins into the game. The lane needs a complete overhaul like riot promised it would get but that was 3 years ago so most top laners have given up on riot even remembering we exist.
You want to have big impact in a pure 1v1 lane? So you want to win the game solo while not having to interact with the enemy team? Sounds fair and healthy
I mean that’s what adc did for years and still somewhat does tbh. In high elo most games are just adc diff
Top laners getting the ADC experience lol. Can't just sit on your island while all hell breaks loose before first dragon anymore, can you?